12/12/24: New Jersey UFOs Stump Pentagon, Car Insurance Skyrockets, Rogan Slams Health Insurance CEOs, Media Hides Manifesto

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar – Episode Released December 12, 2024

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar dives deep into a range of pressing and intriguing topics in its December 12, 2024 episode. Hosted by Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti, the episode navigates through baffling UFO sightings in New Jersey, the alarming surge in car insurance rates, cultural reactions to the Luigi Mangione case, and revelations about media practices concerning sensitive manifestos. Below is a comprehensive summary of the episode’s key discussions, insights, and conclusions.

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1. New Jersey UFOs Stump Pentagon

Overview: The episode opens with Krystal and Saagar delving into a series of unidentified flying object (UFO) sightings across New Jersey that have perplexed both state authorities and the Pentagon. These incidents have been reported multiple times, raising questions about their origin and purpose.

Key Points:

• Widespread Sightings: Multiple sightings across various counties in New Jersey, including near President-Elect Donald Trump's golf course in Bedminster.
• Characteristics of the UFOs: Described as groups of drones with blinking lights, varying in size from small drones to aircraft the size of a car. Notably, these objects disappear or "go dark" when inspected by authorities.
• Government Response: New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy has acknowledged the sightings and expressed frustration over the lack of definitive explanations. Despite deploying state assets to intercept these drones, answers remain elusive.

Notable Quotes:

• Governor Phil Murphy (11:35): “I don’t blame people for being frustrated. Most importantly right up front, we see no evidence... the most important point to say is we don’t see any concern for public safety.”
• Saagar Enjeti (21:28): “Nobody knows. But anytime they’re completely, you know, they have zero idea. All we have are little, little data points.”

Insights: The phenomenon exhibits patterns consistent with previously reported Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAPs), especially their appearance over military installations and their group movements. The lack of concrete explanations from federal agencies adds to the speculation, ranging from foreign espionage to extraterrestrial activities.

Conclusions: Krystal and Saagar emphasize the importance of public awareness and the need for more transparent investigations. They encourage listeners to report sightings and stay informed as the situation develops, highlighting the uncertainty and potential implications for national security.

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2. Car Insurance Skyrockets: The Inflation Crisis

Overview: Transitioning from the skies to the roads, the hosts tackle the dramatic increase in car insurance premiums, dissecting the multifaceted causes behind this surge and its impact on everyday Americans.

Key Points:

• Inflation Trends: Consumer Price Index (CPI) rose by 2.7% in the month, with significant hikes in the prices of consumer goods, particularly in automotive sectors.
• Insurance Escalation: Auto insurance rates have seen a startling increase of approximately 12-13% within a single year, leading to annual premiums soaring between $500 to $2,000 for average families.
• Contributing Factors:
  • Natural Disasters: Increased frequency and severity of hurricanes, hailstorms, and floods leading to higher claims and repair costs.
  • Rising Vehicle Costs: Modern cars equipped with advanced technology and safety features are more expensive to repair, contributing to higher insurance claims.
  • Social Inflation: Growth in insurance claims severity and payouts, influenced by legal and societal changes, exacerbates insurance costs.
  • Uninsured Drivers: A significant population, including immigrants, driving without insurance, increasing the risk and costs for insured individuals.

Notable Quotes:

• Krystal Ball (34:03): “I love it. And the week before, we got Brooke, who was the sex worker turned whistleblower because she loves Breaking Points.”
• Hoda Kotb (33:32): “I scraped together $1,700. I got $500 from a car accident I was in... it was affordable. This is getting unaffordable for the average middle-class family.”
• Saagar Enjeti (33:22): “Yes. I don’t think so just because of the way the jury... they know how to rig the system to make sure that stuff like that is not going to fly.”

Insights: The hosts explore the cyclical nature of rising auto insurance costs—where increasing premiums lead to more uninsured drivers, which in turn drive premiums even higher. Additionally, the influence of private equity in the auto repair and insurance industries is scrutinized for its role in inflating costs further.

Conclusions: Krystal and Saagar shed light on the urgent need for policy interventions to stabilize car insurance rates. They propose potential solutions such as regulatory reforms and increased oversight of insurance practices to protect consumers from the escalating financial burden.

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3. Joe Rogan Slams Health Insurance CEOs and Cultural Fallout

Overview: The episode transitions to the high-profile case of Luigi Mangione, an individual accused of killing the CEO of UnitedHealth. The discussion centers on the societal and cultural reactions to his actions, especially critiques aimed at health insurance executives.

Key Points:

• Luigi Mangione’s Case: Mangione is facing extradition to New York and has been a focal point of public disdain toward health insurance companies.
• Cultural Impact: Comedians like Joe Rogan and Bill Burr have vocally criticized health insurance CEOs, reflecting a broader grassroots anger toward the industry.
• Media’s Role: The manifesto allegedly written by Mangione has been a subject of media manipulation, with major outlets choosing not to publish it, sparking debates about media responsibility and censorship.

Notable Quotes:

• Joe Rogan (44:42): “The business of insurance is fucking gross. It’s gross. And especially healthcare insurance. Just fucking gross.”
• Saagar Enjeti (45:10): “...the insurance industry, which means it’s complicated, unpredictable, and more or less mandatory.”

Insights: The discussion underscores a growing frustration among the public towards health insurance companies, perceived as exploitative and uncaring. This sentiment is amplified by Mangione’s actions, which some interpret as a manifestation of extreme discontent with the insurance industry's practices.

Conclusions: Krystal and Saagar highlight the potential for increased public scrutiny and possible regulatory changes in the health insurance sector. They also touch upon the psychological and societal impacts of such extreme acts of dissent, emphasizing the need for addressing underlying systemic issues.

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4. Media Hides Manifesto: An Interview with Ken Klippenstein

Overview: In an exclusive segment, the hosts interview independent journalist Ken Klippenstein about his decision to publish Luigi Mangione's manifesto—a move that starkly contrasts with the reluctance of mainstream media outlets to disseminate the same document.

Key Points:

• Publication Decision: Klippenstein published the manifesto on his Substack, uncovering that major media organizations like The New York Times, NBC, ABC, and The Washington Post chose not to publish or fully disclose the manifesto.
• Source Capture: The reluctance of mainstream media is attributed to agreements or pressures from law enforcement agencies, aiming to control the narrative and limit the spread of Mangione’s ideological content.
• Media Critique: The interview delves into the ethical implications of media gatekeeping, questioning the balance between responsible journalism and censorship.

Notable Quotes:

• Ken Klippenstein (60:51): “Senior management didn’t want to publish it... we have a serious problem of source capture here.”
• Krystal Ball (51:03): “Violence is never the answer. This guy gets a trial who allegedly killed the CEO of UnitedHealth. But you can only push people so far.”

Insights: The conversation reveals a critical stance on how major media outlets handle sensitive information, particularly manifestos tied to violent acts. Klippenstein’s experience suggests a prioritization of controlled narratives over comprehensive reporting, potentially hindering public understanding of the motives behind such extreme actions.

Conclusions: Krystal and Saagar underscore the importance of independent journalism in uncovering truths that mainstream media may overlook or suppress. They advocate for greater transparency and accountability within media institutions to ensure that crucial information reaches the public without undue restriction.

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Final Thoughts and Call to Action

Throughout the episode, Krystal and Saagar emphasize the significance of independent media and the need for informed public discourse. They encourage listeners to stay vigilant, question official narratives, and support independent journalism initiatives to foster a more transparent and accountable society.

Additional Resources:

• Ken Klippenstein's Substack: KenKlippenstein.com – Access his in-depth reporting and analyses.
• BreakingPoints.com Membership: Gain access to full, unedited episodes and additional content by becoming a member.

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This episode of Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar offers a compelling blend of investigative journalism, critical analysis, and thoughtful commentary on issues that resonate deeply with today's societal and political climate. Whether it's the mystery of unexplained aerial phenomena or the tangible struggles of rising living costs, Krystal and Saagar provide listeners with the insights needed to navigate these complex topics.

Transcript

[Savannah Guthrie]

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[Ryan Grim]

I'm thirsty.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Watch.

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[Ryan Grim]

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[Crystal Ball]

CT mobile.com hi everyone, it's Savannah Guthrie and Hoda Kotme from the Today Show.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Nobody does the holidays like Today. From festive performances and great gift ideas to tips for the perfect holiday feast.

[Crystal Ball]

Join us every morning on NBC and make today your home for the holidays.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Hey guys, Sager and Crystal here.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.

[Sagar Enjeti]

This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.

[Savannah Guthrie]

So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad, free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

[Sagar Enjeti]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see [e-mail]. good morning, everybody. Happy Thursday. Have an amazing show for everybody today. Ryan, good morning. Saga Extra amazing bro show people. Live for the pound, as they always say. We've got a great show for everybody today.

[Ryan Grim]

Let's see.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Let me see, folks, this is the toughest part of the job. New Jersey. We're gonna kick it off with these drones. Now note, it is not just because I am hosting the show today, just with Ryan. I'm not the one who pushed this. I consider doing other things, but I genuinely is a crazy story.

[Hoda Kotb]

What else can we do? What else can we do?

[Sagar Enjeti]

It's a crazy story in the country. Nobody in the mainstream media is taking this seriously. We literally have literal unidentified flying objects all over the state of New Jersey, acknowledged by the United States government, by the New Jersey State police, by the governor of the state, by lawmakers, by residents. Many of them have been spotted over US Military installations or a flurry of more drone sightings just last night. So what the hell are these? You know, according to our government, we don't know. So we're gonna tell you everything that we do know about the situation. If anything, we're gonna rule a bunch of things out. And I will allow you to make up your mind for yourself of what you think they are. Inflation. We're gonna talk about that. Shocking new numbers around eggs and auto insurance inflation. Remaining TR 13% spike in a single month just in auto insurance. We're gonna dig into why it's kind of interesting. We're gonna talk about Luigi Mangione, the alleged United CEO killer who has now been taken into custody and is fighting extradition to the state of New York. There have been some interesting, again, social fallout of that situation, Ryan. Comedians Bill Burr, Joe Rogan, a few others weighing in. It's become a real cultural touchpoint. Then we're gonna have an interview with Ken Klippenstein. He's going to join us. He's the one who made the decision to publish the man. And he's gonna give us some background where he actually has revealed that there is some tacit agreement between the police and the mainstream media to not release the manifesto. So we're gonna talk about when it's okay to release manifesto.

[Hoda Kotb]

Not a little New York Times scoop.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's right. He's got some scoop on what's going on inside the New York Times. Insane. Yeah. They don't want to post a picture of him.

[Hoda Kotb]

Too hot. Too hot for tv.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It's like, okay, all right, well, anyway, we are gonna figure out why. What the hell is going on? We've got some other interesting stories about Syria. Even though it's titled Ukraine, it appears the Ukrainian government sent some advisors to out Al Qaeda to actually help topple Bashar Al Assad's regime. Interesting. Enemy of my enemy is my friend, as they said in the World War II era. And we're also gonna talk about an extraordinary clip from CNN in which they claim to have filmed somebody being freed from Syrian prisons. Very dramatic. Very, you know, it was very emotionally heart wrenching, if you take it seriously. There's some questions, though, around the circumstances of all of that. And then independent Senate candidate Dan Osborne, who outperformed almost all the Democrats in the entire country. Yeah, what is it? Literally all of them. Literally all of them in the entire country. He will join Ryan and I for an interview. So I'm excited to talk to him. We've been wanting to get him here on the show now for quite some time. And I know he's somebody who a lot of you have been very interested in. Nobody's asked him for his opinion on retrospectives for the DNC or for any of the others. Yes, I understand he's an independent, but we're gonna ask him about the things that he ran on, some of the lessons and other things from this election, which possibly he could be a bright spot there. So before we get to that, though, thank you to all of our premium subscrib. Really appreciate you joining us here and joining the program and taking part in helping us build something for the future.

[Hoda Kotb]

Premium sub. Premium sub. Pitch. Emily and I yesterday interviewed an American citizen who went to fight ISIS in Syria.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's right, you did.

[Hoda Kotb]

That interview was absolutely fascinating. One reason we got the interview. The reason we got the interview is that he loves Breaking Points.

[Ryan Grim]

I love it.

[Hoda Kotb]

And the week before, we got Brooke, who was the sex worker turned whistleblower because she loves Breaking Points.

[Sagar Enjeti]

There you go.

[Hoda Kotb]

Like, we have a very cool audience.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, we really do.

[Hoda Kotb]

Diverse audience. So that will be out later today if you're a premium sub. So get that. And then. And then a quick update on the book campaign. I have mine now refat Al Arir's if I Must Die. You have until Saturday to buy this and have it still count toward the New York Times bestseller list. I have been told by a source in the publishing industry that there's a, quote, high probability that it actually will make the list.

[Sagar Enjeti]

How many copies did they sell already?

[Hoda Kotb]

So they printed 7,500. They completely sold those out within hours.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So in normal times, that's enough to hit the list.

[Hoda Kotb]

In normal times, that's enough. Now it's December, so it's holiday season. Everybody's buying a lot of books. So we're guessing 15k is definitely on there. And I think we're at 12 or 13 already.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Okay.

[Hoda Kotb]

And today's Thursday.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I think you hit top 10. There's no way you don't.

[Hoda Kotb]

I think, I think he's.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's a lot of books. Just so everybody understand what is going to sell like 50 copies, 5 copies or something. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. The publishing industry is kind of like this, folks. It's very interesting. If you can sell 5,000 copies, that's like you made it.

[Hoda Kotb]

Major publishers are like, sweet.

[Sagar Enjeti]

You sell 5,000. We've recouped our investment. Yeah, the book business is a real racket. But maybe I'll do a monologue on that at some point. So there you go. You only have a couple more days. We'll have a link down in the description.

[Savannah Guthrie]

All right, we're all set for the party. I've trimmed the tree, hung the mistletoe, and paired all those weird shaped knives and forks with the appropriate cheeses. And I plugged in the Partisan.

[Hoda Kotb]

Partisan.

[Savannah Guthrie]

It's a home cocktail maker that makes over 60 premium cocktails, plus a whole lot of seasonal favorites, too. I just got it for 50 off. So how about a Cosmopolitan or a mistletoe margarita?

[Ryan Grim]

I'm thirsty.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Watch.

[Savannah Guthrie]

I just pop in a capsule, choose my strength and wow, it's beginning to.

[Ryan Grim]

Feel more seasonal in here already.

[Savannah Guthrie]

If your holiday party doesn't have a bartender, then you become the bartender. Unless you've got a Bartesian, because Bartesian crafts every cocktail perfectly in as little as 30 seconds. And I just got it for $50 off.

[Ryan Grim]

Tis the season to be jollier.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Add some holiday flavor to every celebration with the sleek, sophisticated home cocktail maker Bartesian. Get $50 off any cocktail maker at bartesian.com cocktail that's B A R T E S I A N dot com.

[Ken Klippenstein]

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[Crystal Ball]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

Happy riding with all of that let's get to these New Jersey Drones folks. First, let's start with the video, shall we? Put it up there on the screen. We've confirmed some of the video that we are about to show you, so let's go ahead and play it as I talk over it. What you're seeing there is Bergen County, New Jersey. So yeah, you can just see blinking lights that are in the sky. At least. Some of these drones were originally thought to be unidentified. However, at least one or two of them were known and later identified as a small passenger aircraft. But many of these images that have been coming out have now been observed again all over the state, multiple different counties in the state of New Jersey, Bedminster, New Jersey. Obviously it's a bit concerning because that's where President Elect Donald Trump's New Jersey golf course is as well. But in reality you're also seeing these drones which have appear to have lights and to be flying in groups as well, not only there but over multiple U.S. military installations. And I will get to the confirming of that in a little bit now as I just set this up. As we said, there's been multiple days now of investigation into these drones. Some, you know, we knew were small passenger aircraft, but there's just literally not enough small passenger aircraft, especially at night, that are usually registered and confirmed and others to know that this is explicitly not what they are. So they are something, right? We know that they're not, at least according to the United States military. They're not U.S. military assets. We believe at some point now that they are not us, they are not foreign assets, as was speculating. We'll get that.

[Hoda Kotb]

People were saying, oh, it's Iran.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes. But what we do know are some shocking comments here from the state of New Jersey's Governor, Phil Murphy, who actually deployed state assets to try and intercept some of these drones. And here's what he had to say. The minute we get eyes on these drones, they go dark. Let's take a listen.

[Phil Murphy]

I don't blame people for being frustrated. Let me say most importantly right up front, we see no evidence. And I say we. This includes Homeland Security, FBI, Secret Service, our state police authorities at all levels of government. The most important point to say is we don't see any concern for public safety. That's number one. Number two, having said that, it's really frustrating that we don't have more answers as to where they're coming from and why they're doing what they're doing. We had last night 49 sightings. I think 20 of them were over 100. Now those include, I think I saw one mistaken. A fixed wing aircraft, a plane, a small Piper Cub, for instance, for a drone. Or you saw one and that counts. And then I saw the same one and that counts. So we think these are overstated, but it's a non zero number. I was on with the White House and Homeland Security leadership literally at the very top yesterday, pretty much all day. I'm hoping we'll get answers sooner than later. I would just ask folks to continue to let the FBI or their local law enforcement know when they see something and we'll continue to do everything we can with our federal partners to get clearer answers.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Why do it so hard to get answers?

[Phil Murphy]

These are apparently very, as I understand it, very sophisticated. The minute you get eyes on them, they, they go dark. And you know, we're obviously most concerned about sensitive targets and sensitive, critical infrastructure. So we've got military assets, we've got utility assets, we've got. The President elects one of his homes here. This is something we're taking deadly seriously. We've gotten good cooperation out of the feds, but we need more. And that's. That was my plea.

[Ryan Grim]

Finally.

[Phil Murphy]

How long, how much longer do you think? I don't know. But if we have news, I'll come, I'll let you know the minute we know something. I'm not going to Hide it under a bushel.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Governor, you have going to have people saying, you know, I saw a drone.

[Hoda Kotb]

And was spraying something, or I saw.

[Sagar Enjeti]

A drone crash in my yard and set it off an alarm when I tried to go near it. There's a lot of fear.

[Hoda Kotb]

New Jersey residents. I mean, what is your message?

[Phil Murphy]

Well, the message I just gave, but by the way, we're not aware of any nefarious drone that has crashed, or if. Or if there is one that's crashed, could someone please call me and let me know where that is? There are a couple of rumored downings. For one reason or another, one of them was a toy. The other one was never found. But having something, having our hands on equipment that's on the ground would be helpful.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Okay, so I think we can say at least this is not a crank incident, Ryan. This is something being taken very seriously. By the way, that was just three days ago, and the situation has gotten even worse with drone sightings or multiple. As I said, that happened just last night. So this is pretty shocking stuff. You've got. The state of New Jersey says the moment that we get eyes on them, they go dark. This is really something that fits with a lot of previous UAP incidents for people who have been following them. And in terms of the characteristics, I'll just break it down because a lot of these have the same ones. First and foremost is this. Number one, over military base. Number two, traveling in groups. Number three, no military or civilian explanation for what's going on. And then number four, which we're about to get to, is wild rumors circulating to cover up the real explanation, which is we have no earthly idea.

[Hoda Kotb]

We have no earthly idea separate from. My favorite part of that was where the guy's like, what's your message to people in New Jersey? He's like, the message is what I just said.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

So how is the UAP community reacting to this? Because.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Freaking out.

[Hoda Kotb]

I'm not in that community. And I'm like, okay, yeah, let's go.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, for us. For us, this is.

[Hoda Kotb]

Something's going. Something's up.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, this is a pattern. This is a recognizable pattern. Multiple incidents. It fits with multiple reports of pilots and of other US Navy assets and others that have all talked about this. It's just the most high profile because it's over a populated center. Now, sticking with that, we have some testimony here from somebody who actually encountered one of these drones. Let's take a listen. I know in my own personal experience, I was driving home from a friend's house, passing by Flanders Valley golf course, and I saw a drone that looked like the size of a small car just hovering right above the golf course. And I tried to get a picture of it, but you know how it is, the lights, it's kind of hard to get a true image out of it. But it's honestly kind of been a little comical too, as well, because people come in here with all their conspiracies and all their own ideas of what could be happening, and it is nice in a coffee shop environment to talk about it. So you were telling me that some of these drones are as large as a car, some are as small as the more conventional drones. What do they sound like and what are they moving like when you do see them? See, sometimes it's hard to really get a true idea of what they sound like because some of them are very high up, looks like 10,000ft, and then others could be around 500ft. So the larger ones, I have seen stories and I have heard that it could sound like a helicopter, while the small ones, when they're high up, you can't really hear anything at all. Can't really hear anything at all. Now, keep in mind, in terms of the faa, everybody says, oh, these might be civilian drones, might be a couple other people. The technology does not fit with that. First and foremost, there's a ban, right, on flying drones at night. So there's that. I know there's complicated rules, something about line of sight, but the higher ones, they wouldn't even fit with that. So there's number one. Number two is that these have been investigated now at the state level, at the federal level, and now at the military level. And so, for example, from the FBI saying, quote, they have no idea what these drones are. Let's take a listen.

[Ryan Grim]

You're telling me we don't know what.

[Hoda Kotb]

The hell these drones are in New Jersey are, Is that correct? That's right.

[Ryan Grim]

That's crazy.

[Hoda Kotb]

I mean, that's crazy. That's madness that we don't know what these drones are.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That was from the United States Congress, where FBI agent there was testifying. Now, let's get to the wild rumors, shall we? So in the vacuum of all of this information, people always come out and they start hearing things from people, right? Some of those people are congressmen. Now, yesterday, Congressman Jeff Vandrew, most famous, I think, for switching from Democrat to Republican, took to Fox News airwaves and made a wild claim that these drones are actually Iranian drones that are coming from a, quote, mothership off of the US East Coast. Let's take a listen.

[Hoda Kotb]

Well, here's the real deal, Harris. You know, I'm also on the Transportation Committee on the Aviation Subcommittee. And I've gotten to know people and from very high sources. Sources, very qualified sources, very responsible sources. I'm going to tell you the real deal. Iran launched a mothership probably about a month ago that contains these drones. That mothership is off. I'm going to tell you the deal. It's off. The east coast of the United States of America. They've launched drones is everything that we can see or hear. And again, these are from high sources. I don't say this lightly. Now, you know, we know there was a probability it could have been our own government. We know it's not our own government because they would have let us know it could have been some really glorified hobbyist or hobbyists that were doing something unbelievable. They don't have the technology.

[Sagar Enjeti]

All right, so I have a number of questions.

[Hoda Kotb]

First question, when can we do war with Iran?

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah.

[Sagar Enjeti]

First of all, does this fit with wanting to go to war with Iran? Yes. Number two, mothership. Really? The Iranian navy, the vaunted blue water Iranian navy has the capacity to come all the way to the US East Coast.

[Hoda Kotb]

We never saw their ship.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, Nobody on open source was able to track it. The US Navy wasn't. Norad.

[Hoda Kotb]

And maybe it's a hovering nuclear powered.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Right. So it's like. And then that mothership drones are allowed to fly back and forth from said mothership now for multiple weeks without anybody spotting it. Yeah, go ahead and color me skeptical.

[Hoda Kotb]

These are very responsible sources.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, very responsible, very respectable. Listen, I mean, and by the way, look, this is super annoying for the Congressman to do this because I genuinely think it is irresponsible. There's not a single scrap of evidence to back up what he said. By the way, he did walk it all back later and he was like, well, I said it could be Iranian. It's like, no, bro, we just played the tape. That's not what he said. That's not what he said.

[Hoda Kotb]

Nothing authoritative has ever followed. I serve on the Transportation Committee. Yeah, right.

[Sagar Enjeti]

By the way, I serve on the Transportation Committee.

[Phil Murphy]

Get out of here.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Okay, all right. Biggest joke committee in all of Congress.

[Hoda Kotb]

That they let anybody from New Jersey on the Transportation Committee is appalling.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Exactly. Right. Okay. So, yeah, especially for anybody who's been on the turnpike. All right, so then finally we get a Pentagon press conference where they're asked about all of this. And they said two very important things. Number One, what the Congressman's saying is totally not true. But the most important one is this. According to our assessment, it is not a foreign military asset. Let's take a listen.

[Hoda Kotb]

Representative Jeff Van Drew, who is a Republican from New Jersey, was just on the air saying that Iran launched a.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Mothership probably about a month ago that.

[Hoda Kotb]

Contains these drones and that that mothership is off the coast of the east coast of the United States. Is there any truth to that?

[Sagar Enjeti]

There is not any truth to that. There is no Iranian ship off the coast of the United States and there's.

[Savannah Guthrie]

No so called mothership launching drones towards the United States.

[Sagar Enjeti]

All right, no mothership, no drones. They also said it is not a foreign US Military asset. It basically only leaves two options. One is we have no idea and the other is that it's a US Military drones. I mean, I guess it's the right possible that it is and that they're not telling us. But there are a lot of weird things that continue to stack up against it. So, for example, can we put a nine, please, up on the screen? This is a statement from U.S. north Command. Now, U.S. north Command says that they have, quote, conducted a deliberate analysis of the events in consultation with other military organizations and interagency partners. At this time, we have not been requested to assist with these events. So. So according to them, this is the military, right, responsible for U.S. north Command and U.S. home Defense as well as Canada. And they tell us, no, we've done an analysis here and we said that we have not even been requested to deal with any of this. Part of the reason why I don't think it's Iranian. And the other funny thing is, whenever you continue to read Ryan and you see some of the statements, they're referring to it as a, quote, local law enforcement matter. But then when you talk to the state and the state troopers and others, and including the Governor of New Jersey, he's like, guys, airspace is not us. That's a federal matter. So there's a lot of finger pointing going on. And I think that the answer is they don't know. That's the terrifying part. And look again, we are not dealing with just one or two. We've got multiple verified videos, we've got multiple incidents, we've got the freaking governor who says that every time a helicopter tries to get close to these things, they go, quote, unquote, go dark.

[Hoda Kotb]

You don't think the Patterson Police Department.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Can handle Patterson Police Department. They're totally unable to do all of this. And the other thing is that you have multiple sightings across multiple different domains. So let's go ahead and put a eight, please on the screen. This is from New Jersey Media. I mean, they exhaustively list here all of the counties where these drone reports have happened. I mean, we're talking about all over the state. But one of the things that really caught my eye yesterday was actually a statement that came out of Naval Air Station Earl. And what they said is, quote, we are aware of the reports of increasing increased drone activity in New Jersey and are actively monitoring the situation. We have received reports from our neighboring communities and law enforcement. But here's this quote. We can confirm at least one instance of an unidentified drone entering the airspace above Naval Weapons Station Earl. Above Naval Weapons Station Earl. So you have here, that's on the record from the United States military.

[Hoda Kotb]

Unidentified object that was flying above the naval station.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Above the naval air station.

[Hoda Kotb]

Unidentified flying object.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Unidentified flying object that was flying over Naval Station Earl. So you.

[Hoda Kotb]

Let's just call them UFO for sure.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Call it a ufo. Call it a UFO if you want to. So listen, I mean, look, I've only given people the facts here. You can make up your own mind. I mean, I think the real thing that we could take away from this is the feds just don't know. They have no clue, or they're hiding something colossal. There's some secret government. But, you know, everybody always thinks that it could be some secret government program, but it'd be pretty stupid to have a secret government drone program to be flying all over one of the most populated and dense areas in the entire United States, ignite a local panic. You have the governor of the state of New Jersey. I think the mayors of every town in New Jersey convened yesterday for a meeting. Many of the mayors came away from it. Some of them had drove up to three hours and were like, we didn't learn anything from this. They basically just said the same thing. We have no idea what's happening. Legislators. Yeah, that's what they said. State legislators said, I don't know. You know, we have no clue about what's happening here. They keep saying that we need more federal resources to tell us what's happening.

[Hoda Kotb]

And interestingly, the president has been briefed.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes.

[Hoda Kotb]

Okay. The president has limited amount of time, and this president has extra. Limited amount of time. He's got 10 to 4.

[Sagar Enjeti]

He's doing nothing.

[Hoda Kotb]

All right?

[Sagar Enjeti]

He's going to take photos at Christmas parties. That's about what he's got right now.

[Hoda Kotb]

This rose to his level. We've got. I believe it's A seven.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, A seven. Let's go ahead and play it. So we are certainly aware, the President is aware. So we're closely tracking the activity and coordinating closely with relevant agency, including DHS and FBI to continue to investigate these incidents. Don't have anything beyond that to share. Obviously this is something that DHS and FBI are tracking very, very closely. And so I would have to refer you to them directly. There you go. The President has been briefed. They are monitoring the situation. You can take it for whatever you will. You know, that's all we've got so far, folks. And you know, even as I continue to scour, I don't see the national media really taking this seriously at all. But if you consider it at a base, and this is part of the reason why many lawmakers who, when you strip apart the stigma and people calling you crazy at a baseline level, it's crazy to have things that are flying around in your airspace and you don't know what they are, as multiple congressmen and others have said. They said, we have reports of these things over US Military installations. We reports of them interfering with equipment. We have reports of sailors and airmen who have no idea what to do. They're afraid, or they just simply, you know, it's a threat to them because things are going around in your airspace without any knowledge of it. And this is perhaps the most high profile example that we've had in years now of something that is like this happening. It's already in the national media. I think it's trying to memory hole it. And I think the main reason why is it's embarrassing and it's difficult right, when to tell a story and just have.

[Hoda Kotb]

You don't know the answer. We don't know.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Nobody knows. But anytime they're completely, you know, they have zero idea. All we have are little, little data points.

[Hoda Kotb]

And if there are unidentified objects flying over the remains of Ivana Trump, like that's important stuff.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I mean, you know, you joke, but this is the president elects golf compound. I think he's gonna be there for Christmas, something like that. Or possibly he's in New York today. I know that at the New York Stock Exchange. So what does that mean? Probably we stopping off at Bedminster and then you have these drones that are flying around that are up there. We have US Military installations that don't know what's happening. Naval air stations. You have reports here from the governor of the state. And then you had so many incidents that happened just last night, apparently where multiple other residents and others are reporting them to authority. So if you see anything, this is wild.

[Hoda Kotb]

Something's going on.

[Sagar Enjeti]

If you see anything, just let us know. If you can post the video, report it to your local authorities and we'll continue to monitor the situation. It's totally crazy stuff.

[Savannah Guthrie]

All right, we're all set for the party. I've trimmed the tree, hung the mistletoe, and paired all those weird shaped knives and forks with the appropriate cheeses. And I plugged in the Partisan.

[Ryan Grim]

Partisan.

[Savannah Guthrie]

It's a home cocktail maker that makes over 60 premium cocktails, plus a whole lot of seasonal favorites too. I just got it for 50 off, so how about a Cosmopolitan or a Mistletoe margarita?

[Ryan Grim]

I'm thirsty.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Watch. I just pop in a capsule, choose my strength and wow, it's beginning to.

[Ryan Grim]

Feel more seasonal in here already.

[Savannah Guthrie]

If your holiday party doesn't have a bartender, then you become the bartender. Unless you've got a Bartesian, because Bartesian crafts every cocktail perfectly in as little as 30 seconds. And I just got it for $50 off.

[Ryan Grim]

Tis the season to be jolly er.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Add some holiday flavor to every celebration with the sleek, sophisticated home cocktail maker Bartesian. Get $50 off any cocktail maker at bartisian.com cocktail that's B A R T E S I A N.com cocktail gifting.

[Ken Klippenstein]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

All right, let's move on to inflation. This is a really crazy story, Ryan, and potentially could be. You know it's going to be an issue there for Donald Trump. This is one of the main reasons why he won the presidency. Let's put this up there on the screen. Quote, unquote Strengthening inflation poses challenge for Trump and for the Fed. So inflation actually ticked up this month. 2.7%. Quote assigned to that path to bringing down price pressures remains bumpy. Quote unquote Progress on bringing down inflation stalled in November. CPI ticked up 2.7% increase. But it's the prices of consumer goods that are really jacking things up right now. Quote Everything from cars to living room furniture, excluding food and energy, increased at the fastest month over month pace in a year and a half, largely led by a jump in vehicle prices. That was partly because drivers were replacing damaged cars and trucks after recent devastating hurricanes. But also the rise is notable because the prices for many goods had been falling for about a year through August and now appears to have been reversed. One of the ways that you can really look into this is that it's in the core areas in terms of making everyday life more expensive. Whenever you see the actual dig into the numbers, let's put this up there from the Washington Post and I'm gonna read here, this is actually really crazy. So what they show is that the is that with eggs and with auto insurance in particular, food prices, which weighed heavily on Americans, rose 0.4% over the month. But prices for meat, fish, poultry and eggs rose 1.7%. Beef price increased 3% and are up 5% on the year. Eggs are up 8.2% and are up 40% on the year. Gasoline up by 0.6% but still down some 8% from the year ago, period. It's the auto insurance that really stuck out to me because what you saw in that number, Ryan, was a 13.7% or sorry, 12.7% increase in auto insurance in just a single year. And this is really shocking because what it shows is that not only is the price of carrying a car up significantly, but the price of the car itself is also up significantly. And then you consider that rates are still very high. So the car loans themselves. So you now have a situation where average car payment is going to rocket up from the price of the car, the rate of the car and now the physical carrying cost with auto insurance. And one of the really sad parts about this is, talked a lot about this in terms of families is that, you know, now used to be like you had your 16 year old kid, everyone was annoyed because like, oh, it jumped from 120 to $400. Nowadays you would be praying and wishing for a $400 insurance payment just for you and your wife. All right. Or you and your husband. Nowadays it's like $500 to $2,000 of what that jump is. It's absolutely shocking.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah. The days where the 16 year old, like when I was 16, you know, I scraped together $1700. I got $500 from a car accident I was in.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Wow.

[Hoda Kotb]

And I was working and had a side job flush. Yeah. Yeah. It combined and was able for 1,700 bucks. Was able to get a Honda Accord used as hell. And that was very normal.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes.

[Hoda Kotb]

Even for lower income people, for teenagers to be able to. And then, yeah, the insurance is a little more because you're a terrible driver. And it should be more because you're a danger on the roads just as much as a 95 year old, maybe even more so. But it was affordable. This is getting, this is getting unaffordable for the average middle class family at this point. And we at counterpoints, we were flagging this more than a year ago. And actually a piece you read there is a nice little vindication.

[Sagar Enjeti]

We can put it up there.

[Hoda Kotb]

People that were dunking on me about pointing out that all the storms and the floods were driving a significant amount of the auto insurance crisis. People were like, what? That's crazy. That's impossible. No, dude, what do you think happens when you get much more hail than you used to get? Hail destroys cars. That's a couple thousand bucks to get that fixed. Maybe flooding more than that. Yes, because it's destroying the whole body. Flooding. Your car gets filled with water. How much do you think that costs to get fixed? Look, western North Carolina, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, all of these places getting whacked with storms. And that's before we're talking about all, all the tornadoes. And as costs of cars rise, then the cost of fixing them rises.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes.

[Hoda Kotb]

And there's also then. And this requires a lot more investigation. But there is a. This is something Dave Dahen's outlet would be good at looking into. Maybe we'll team up with him on that. Private equity is like buying up a whole bunch of car dealers and rolling up the auto repair industry. And so what private equity does when they buy up, say, medical facilities, they figure out how to up code to insurance companies on Medicare. And all of a sudden they're extracting a whole lot more money out of these insurance companies. Whether it's Medicare or private insurance, they're doing the same thing with auto insurance. And so they're figuring out how do we maximize what we can get out of this insurance company. Meanwhile, the car makers themselves are making everything automated. So every time you roll in now and you've got, you know, you might have your tire pressure might be low.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

In the old days, like just a couple years ago, you go and you fill up your tire. Now they're like, we gotta run the system. Cause we gotta do something about that code. And that's like a hundred bucks.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Interesting.

[Hoda Kotb]

And then they find something else. And it's like, auto mechanics have always been good at figuring out ways to charge you more. But private equity takes that to an exponential new level. Right. And then the insurance company was like, okay, well, we're raising prices by 13%.

[Sagar Enjeti]

The price of this is actually shocking because. Put that New York Times tear sheet up there on the screen. I'm gonna read a little bit from this. B3, please. So what they talk about in here is about the, quote, era of the $20,000 family car insurance bill. And they quote one particular woman who said that she called to add her 16 year old to her car insurance. She drives a 2018 Subaru. And the representative casually informed her her annual premium would go from $1,700 to over $5,000. They say, quote, it turns out she has it pretty good. There are plenty of families with three or four children whose annual premiums will top $20,000 this year. That can be enough to replace one of the cars that the entire policy covers. Quote, how can this be? It's the insurance industry, which means it's complicated, unpredictable, and more or less mandatory. Especially because you literally have to have insurance to be able to drive. Go ahead.

[Hoda Kotb]

One other vicious cycle that's going on here.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

And you see this all over the country. I bet people are confronting this. The more that prices rise, the more unaffordable it becomes. The more people are uninsured because they can't pay, they just can't make the bill.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I was about to get to that and then boom.

[Hoda Kotb]

Uninsured people, that raises the price.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So we have a critical mass of uninsured population. Some of it is immigration related. Apparently. That's what a lot of people are speculating around. The large number of people who are here illegally and who largely drive without.

[Hoda Kotb]

That's legit analysis.

[Ryan Grim]

It's true.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I mean, it's just at a basic level, you have a 20 million people who are illegally, 10 million people are probably driving. All of them legally are uninsured, because that's what this is admitted by them and by social scientists and others. So if you're getting into a car accident, that's number one. Number two, that's a tale as old as time in Texas. Everybody in Texas has got a story getting rear ended by a guy and he's like, oh, sorry, you know, I don't have insurance. Drives away, yeah, I'll pay you some cash, you know, whatever. This has been going on for 25 years, since I was a kid. I remember hearing stories about this. Now the whole country gets to experience what we in Texas got to grow up. Second, though, is the rise, actually. And this is why I think you can't just blame it all on immigration. A lot of this has to do with cars. And I didn't think about this, but the nicer the cars become, the more expensive they are to fix. And what I mean by that is that even the baseline models of a lot of cars these days, they've got, you know, the rear end sensors and all that stuff. Well, it used to be when you crash, or let's say somebody sideswipes you and they hit your side, okay, you just have to replace the piece of metal.

[Hoda Kotb]

You go to a junkyard. That's what I used to just go to a junkyard. Go to a junkyard.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Exactly. You have the famous, you know, you have the. What, the door that doesn't match everything else.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yes, exactly.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Looks like shit, but whatever. I had that, but now you have that. It needs a sensor and it has that, and it's wired to the computer. And so whenever that happens, you actually have to replace like three or four different things Also electric vehicles. There is. There's a famous story of a Rivian. Like a Rivian got involved in a rear end or something and it costs $40,000 to fix because it's not just a sensor. It was something about the way that the car itself is configured and they needed a brand new. You might as well totaled it, to be honest. But that's the point is that in basic fender benders and other small Accidents is that as the cars get nicer, first of all more expensive, but second really is nicer, more complex with a.

[Hoda Kotb]

Lot more sensor, the safety, the way they crumple.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Right.

[Hoda Kotb]

So crumpling is good for the human.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes.

[Hoda Kotb]

Bad for the car.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Bad for the car. So there's a lot of different things that are going on in terms of that. Second is also something that was flagged me by somebody in the insurance industry. Let's put this up there on the screen. I don't know how much of this is true, this could be coped by them, but I thought I would mention it anyways. It says quote, the big impact of quote unquote social inflation on small and mid sized commercial auto insurers. And it says the term social inflation brings to mind jury trials and multimillion dollar verdicts. Often claims for involving serious injury for the claimant. But the effects of social inflation go beyond these headlines grabbing cases. The whole dynamic of social inflation that leads to verdicts has trickle down effects that can impact any claim, including basic auto injury. For something as benign as a sprained ankle, this means that even small and mid sized companies with relatively small auto liability exposure can and do pay the price. Commercial auto acclaim severity has now risen 72% since 2013 with a median annual increase of 6.3. Economic and social inflation are big culprits behind the increase, contributing to some 96 billion increase in the combined claim payouts for US personal and commercial auto liability in the last decade. So what that means is that there's also, I mean lawyers and all these other people talk about it too, that a lot of the tort reform and there's a lot of lawyers who obviously prey on not just okay, so they justify it by representing people against auto companies.

[Ryan Grim]

Whatever.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I don't know the whole story. I'm sure there's something in between. The point is, is that you have a lot of claimants with you know, insurance Rod, by the way, right now is rampant by the way. Get a dash cam. If you're out there, get a dash cam. It's important. It could save you a lot of money sometime in the future. So there's a famous video going around right now of a guy who slams his car, rear ends his car into somebody. The only reason she isn't held liable is because she has a dash cam showing that the other guy clearly is at fault. So insurance fraud and personal injury lawyers and all these other people are milking the auto insurance companies. A lot of those judgments are trickling down. You have the illegal immigrant situation. You've also got these more expensive car situation and you've got the storms. So it does seem like it was a perfect storm, quote unquote of events. Also, I think a lot of claims renew on December. So that's another reason why this particular month was very high. But I feel for people out there, man, if you got three kids or something like that, you're paying 15, 20 grand a year in car insurance. That's crazy. Especially if you, oh man, if you live in Florida, your home insurance rate, if you're lucky to have it jacked up, your auto insurance rate, crazy. If you live in California. Apparently California just instituted some new regulations about mandatory coverage for every person with increasing the amount that you legally have to have for your coverage, which again drives the price up. So there's a huge confluence of events. But the bottom line is always the same, is that it's harder to just be an everyday amount. Yeah, it just sucks. I cannot imagine paying $20,000 a year for car insurance. That's crazy. That's absolutely crazy.

[Hoda Kotb]

Might need national car insurance at some point.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I don't know. I mean, you need something single payer. You gotta figure out a way to get, you know, because you know, these. This is, as we said, the basics. It's the carrying cost. Because if you go from a situation of oh, I bought a 15, I saved up a lot of money, $15,000, your car, $15,000 car, which is not. It used to be expensive. Nowadays it's barely gonna buy you anything. Probably something used with 70,000 miles or something on it, maybe even 100,000. So you buy that car. But now the carrying cost of said car with car payment and with interest rate goes very, very high. So the burn rate of the average balance sheet for an American just makes it very, very difficult. If you're the average income on $75,000 a year household, good luck. Honestly, I don't know how you have two cars.

[Hoda Kotb]

It's almost impossible. Do whatever you want with grocery prices. If that's, if that's 50% more than it was a few years ago, you're getting killed. Even if you got the best coupons for food line that you can find.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It's very sad. It really is. It makes me sad. I can't imagine what it's like for people who are out there, maybe with a couple of kids or whatever. Maybe you decide to have to downside to one car downsize to quote unquote, one car for one family. But that can be very difficult as well, especially if you live in modern suburb or somewhere like that. If you're not like us, you don't live in an urban area and you literally have to drive everywhere for. This is a lot of downstream implications, you know, in terms of why this is all bad. So really, really sad story. Wanted to make sure that we flagged it. Trump certainly has his work cut out for him because this is going to be one of those number one things. And honestly, that'd be one of the things that I would focus on, too. I'd be like, we need to lower the price of car and carrying cost for these, for everybody. It's not just homes. It's also just very basic stuff like this. Food, car, gas, home. If you focus just on those four, you'd be a hero. But, you know, nobody in Washington likes to talk that way. All right, so speaking of skyrocketing insurance, shall we? We'll get to Luigi Mangione and the current developments in the case. And also the social. Well, I wouldn't go that far. He didn't follow any of us. I was a little worried about that.

[Hoda Kotb]

You were like. And then I was like, okay, dodge that one.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, I don't need New York Times up my ass asking me about why this guy was a fan or anything like that, even though we did swim in very similar circles. So we've got two comedians weighing in, Joe Rogan and Bill Burr with some cutting analysis.

[Hoda Kotb]

Elizabeth Warren agreeing with them.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes, we'll get to that. Next, let's take a listen to the comedians. Bad on denying claims.

[Hoda Kotb]

34% denial rate.

[Sagar Enjeti]

The normal's like 16.

[Hoda Kotb]

Those guys. I don't think anybody's gonna be crying too hard over that guy.

[Phil Murphy]

Maybe his family, but that's about it. It. It's a dirty, dirty business. The business of insurance is fucking gross. It's gross. And especially healthcare insurance. Just fucking gross.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, you know what's annoying me about this, this kid who killed this CEO, is none of these news programs are talking about the incredible lack of empathy from the general public about this because of how these insurance companies treat people when they are at their most vulnerable, after we've all given them our money every fucking month. And now we finally need you and all you do is deny us. And then these pussies and all of these things are taking the pictures of their CEOs off their websites. You know, I gotta be honest with you, okay, I Love that. Fucking CEOs are fucking afraid right now. You should be. By and large, you're all a bunch of selfish, greedy fucking pieces of shit. And a lot of you are mass murderers. You just don't pull the trigger. That's why it looks clean. That's why these people look. Oh my God. Oh, he was just, you know, walking into a hotel. It's like, okay, well what was his job? What did he do? What was the results of it? Woo.

[Hoda Kotb]

Bill, my God, the beeps couldn't even keep up with him.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Oh yeah, that was interesting. You know, we've got, I mean look, it's funny. I knew that the comedians were gonna have a field day with this one. But with Bill, I don't even think he's joking. He's just ranting completely. You already know that there's gonna be some great, great sets that come out of this entire thing. But yeah, he certainly is trying to capture, I would guess, what's the underground Internet mood of the country. And before we get to Elizabeth Warren, we just have to put some of this stuff up there because you can see that there is a groundswell out there. I'm not endorsing it, but it is certainly out there. Let's go ahead and put what is it? C3 up there on the screen. We play some VO of this. People are posting wanted pictures apparently all over the city of New York, showing The photos of CEOs of various different healthcare companies. You also have, let's go to the next one up there on the screen. You have the book, the delay, deny, defend book which was cited on the shell casings by Luigi Imagioni that has surged to number three on the Amazon bestseller list. Next C5 please. The jacket apparently worn by Mangione is quote flying off the shelves. This is, let's see, a similar green truck. Yeah, I mean, to be honest, this is just a basic green trucker jacket. I don't really know what's so special about it. The Sherpa line hooded jacket from Levi's rings in at $225. It's quote flying off the shelves after people speculated it was the same coat that was worn there. I mean, I guess I'll put in a plug for trucker jackets, specifically Levi's trucker jackets. They can be very stylish. They are very nice. But yeah, you could see there is a lot of hidden energy behind this. So much so that apparently people have been offering to the lawyer of Louisiana Mangione to pay his legal bills. Something that the lawyer addressed in an interview. Let's take a listen.

[Hoda Kotb]

But, but you said you were retained today. One big question that everyone has is. Are you being paid by his family to represent him?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, I'm not, I'm not going to comment on that.

[Hoda Kotb]

Well, can you say that it's not his family who is. Who is asking you to retain him.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Or to retaining you to represent him?

[Sagar Enjeti]

I'm not going to comment on. I'm not going to comment on that. That's. I've been retained. I'm not court appointed. I've been retained and that's all I can tell.

[Savannah Guthrie]

We had seen reports earlier that there.

[Hoda Kotb]

Was, you know, people were inundating you with offers to help pay for his legal bills. Is that accurate?

[Sagar Enjeti]

I have received some emails. I have not seen them personally, but my understanding from my staff is people are doing that.

[Hoda Kotb]

The people are reaching out to you.

[Savannah Guthrie]

And offering to help pay for his legal bill.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's correct.

[Hoda Kotb]

Do you.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Would you accept those offers?

[Hoda Kotb]

I mean, I imagine you maybe have.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I don't know.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Have you ever gotten that before?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Nah, nah, to be honest with you, I probably wouldn't.

[Hoda Kotb]

Why do you think you would not accept that? I don't know.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I just don't. I don't know. I just don't feel comfortable about that. So I don't know. I haven't given that much thought, but I'm not. Look, you know, I mean, I, you know, obviously my client appreciates the support that he has, but I don't know, I just. I'd have to look in. But it just doesn't sit right with me, really. I love how nonplussed this guy is. The entire interview refuses to look at the camera, giving extremely.

[Hoda Kotb]

Does he know he's on air?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Short answers. Yeah, exactly. It's like all the worst things you could possibly ask for in a television guest. He's doing of not giving anything. Clear. So what do you think? You think the family's paying him? I think so. You got.

[Hoda Kotb]

I would think so.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I mean, they're super wealthy. Right? You know.

[Hoda Kotb]

Right. But yeah, let the public pay if they want to pay.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Maybe. But then that's the other question is that did somebody reach out and preemptively, you know, retain. Counselor.

[Hoda Kotb]

I would assume it's the family. I would assume he went to Gilman, which is like one of the most expensive schools in the Maryland area.

[Sagar Enjeti]

There's no question family's got money. Yeah, you could.

[Ryan Grim]

No, no.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I mean, that's already been coming out is that his own family has been very wealthy. They own a bunch of golf courses apparently or whatever.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Sagar Enjeti]

And then what does they own golf courses. They.

[Hoda Kotb]

His Brother's a GOP station.

[Sagar Enjeti]

His cousin. His cousin is a GOP state legislator. So clearly they're influential. Apparently very well known in the Baltimore area. The Mangione family. So, yeah. Ryan, what do you think of all this?

[Hoda Kotb]

Well, the first politician to really kind of channel some of this and she's getting a lot of backlash, is Elizabeth Warren.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Okay.

[Hoda Kotb]

I think this is a really interesting interview. And when you watch this interview, bear in mind the cliche in politics that they say everything that comes before the butt doesn't actually matter. It's what comes after the butt. And that's why people are like, whoa, interesting. So let's roll old based Elizabeth Warren here. What happens when you turn this into the billionaires run it all is they get the opportunity to squeeze every last penny. And look, we'll say it over and over. Violence is never the answer. This guy gets a trial who's allegedly killed the CEO of UnitedHealth. But you can only push people so.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Far, and then they start to take.

[Hoda Kotb]

Matters into their own hands. Yeah.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I mean, she's vigilante justice.

[Hoda Kotb]

Her whole career, she's been going after CEOs more than probably any other Democratic party.

[Ryan Grim]

She did walk it back, though.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Did she?

[Hoda Kotb]

Has she already walked it back?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Of course she's already walked. You knew that was coming, et cetera. Yeah. I mean, look, they're all trying to thread the needle, which I kind of find amusing especially well for them in particular. It's like, oh, how do we do this? It's like, you know, we don't want to endorse violence.

[Hoda Kotb]

And she pushed the needle the furthest, though.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Do you think so?

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah. Yeah. Where you say, look, I don't support murder, but, but, but. You can only push people so far.

[Sagar Enjeti]

You can only push people so far.

[Hoda Kotb]

That's about as far as a politician is gonna take it.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's fair. I think that that is certainly fair.

[Hoda Kotb]

And was certainly expected that that politician would then be forced to walk that back.

[Sagar Enjeti]

We also have a hilarious clip so good that has come out of Luigi Mangioni, fellow prisoners who were able to shout at a cameraman for News Nation. Now, as you and I were discussing, why are they playing News Nation in prison? It's cruel and unusual punishment.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Of all the networks that's out there, News Nation in prison, the context here.

[Hoda Kotb]

Is that Jesse Waters, apparently the most out of touch man in the entire United States, said that United Health CEO Brian Thompson allies behind bars.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Right.

[Hoda Kotb]

Would give Luigi a very rough time.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes.

[Hoda Kotb]

I'm sure he was going to be really in for it. Because obviously inmates love nothing more than health insurance.

[Sagar Enjeti]

CEO, of course. Of course.

[Hoda Kotb]

And so his theory was actually put to the test as he's in a Pennsylvania prison here.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So here, Pennsylvania prisoners who are shouting back and forth with the News Nation camera crew about the conditions and other things inside the prison. Let's take. Listen.

[Hoda Kotb]

This was just from a few hours ago. And here they are, 10 o'clock, as promised. They said earlier today, tell Ashley Banfield that Luigi is watching at 10:00. I mean, obviously, you know, that's just a hard roast at this point because they're not near Luigi in any way. Can I just ask the guys if.

[Savannah Guthrie]

They can hear me right now to.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Answer yes or no, very loud.

[Hoda Kotb]

Does Luigi have television in his single cell?

[Sagar Enjeti]

They said no. Right.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Obviously we have a little bit of a delay.

[Sagar Enjeti]

They're getting the questions and they're giving us the answers. Luigi does not have.

[Hoda Kotb]

Wow, this is quite something.

[Sagar Enjeti]

This is the strangest interview I've ever conducted.

[Hoda Kotb]

Me too. Ashley. You know, according to the Department of Corrections, he's got his own solitary cell. It's not solitary confinement, but he's by himself. It's not dorm style. I'm not sure exactly what those guys got going on in terms of a living situation. It sounds like they're all clustered together. Isn't it interesting to see what accommodations that they have? They got their own light switches. They're obviously watching TV. Almost any sort of 10 o'clock curfew, you know.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yep.

[Hoda Kotb]

They're doing this for you. They're watching News Nation at this very moment.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That is pretty extraordinary. Also, what kind of facility is this? Guys can just yell out, you know, it's like camera.

[Hoda Kotb]

I mean, this is.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Is this a jail?

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah. And so this is. This is most American prisons. So basically those dudes are in a common room. The windows are open. Probably, in fact, maybe they have the windows open and the heat on just to make it miserable from both directions. But. So it seems like all those guys are in the common room. You know, it's not yet time to go back to the cell and go to sleep. So they all sit around there and they're watching television, watching the news.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

And they had like, as you saw there, they had told. They had yelled out the window to the crew, tell Ashley we're gonna be watching at 10pm Then, sure enough, they were there for their appointment at 10pm and communicating back and forth. You love to see it.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, it's absolutely.

[Hoda Kotb]

So I think that Waters theory That Luigi's gonna be Persona non grata in American prisons is not panning out so far.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So I was speculating because, first of all, this is jail.

[Hoda Kotb]

Maybe he thought he was going to Dan. Maybe Waters thought he was going to Danbury.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Danbury, that's in Connecticut, though.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, that's the Connecticut one where all the rich people go.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Oh, right, right there.

[Hoda Kotb]

Luigi might have a problem.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's right. He certainly. Maybe he would have more problem in the federal system, which is probably more filled. Filled with criminals, white collar criminals and others. But if convicted. Right. He would be in the New York state penitentiary system. We were speculating as to whether he'd be sent to that Dannemora prison from the show escape at Dannemora with other violent criminals in the New York state system all the way up, I think, in upstate New York. But, yeah, we'll see. We'll see what happens to him. It's going to be, as we said, it's going to be the trial of the century. I think we can at least.

[Hoda Kotb]

Guy's never going to have to buy a cigarette.

[Sagar Enjeti]

You think so? You think so? All right, yeah, maybe we're right. But are people Gonna Remember in 20 years, how long is he gonna get if he gets convicted?

[Hoda Kotb]

Well, I mean, also, he's gonna be. So he's got back pain and to be in prison.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, that's rough. And he also. I mean, look, we still don't know what he's gonna plead. He still could plead not guilty by reason of insanity especially, or not guilty by reason of.

[Hoda Kotb]

Won't you guys just find me not guilty?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Certainly it could happen. I don't know. I mean, I don't think so just because of the way the jury. I mean, people have tried that before, right? In terms of, like, I was justified in the crime. Usually the jury instructions are very narrow, so they're able to get around these.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, these are revolutionary times.

[Sagar Enjeti]

They know how to go, the feds and the cops. They know how to rig the system to make sure that stuff like that is not going to fly. But, hey, look, maybe you're right. You know, speaking of that, in terms of some of the questions surrounding Luigi Mangione, the manifesto, and the media's relationship, We've got Ken Klippenstein standing by. He's going to talk to about his decision to publish the manifesto and why other media organizations have decided not to. Let's get to it.

[Savannah Guthrie]

All right. We're all set for the party. I've trimmed the tree, hung the mistletoe, and paired all those weird shaped knives and forks with the appropriate cheeses and I plugged in the Partisan Partisan. It's a home cocktail maker that makes over 60 premium cocktails, plus a whole lot of seasonal favorites too. I just got it for 50 off, so how about a Clasma Poly or a Mistletoe margarita?

[Ryan Grim]

I'm thirsty.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Watch.

[Savannah Guthrie]

I just pop in a capsule, choose my strength and wow, it's beginning to.

[Ryan Grim]

Feel more seasonal in here already.

[Savannah Guthrie]

If your holiday party doesn't have a bartender, then you become the bartender. Unless you've got a Bartesian, because Bartesian crafts every cocktail perfectly in as little as 30 seconds and I just got it for $50 off.

[Ryan Grim]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

Add some holiday flavor to every celebration with the sleek, sophisticated home cocktail maker. Get $50 off any cocktail maker at bartesian.com cocktail that's B A R T E S I A N dot com.

[Ken Klippenstein]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

Joining us now is independent journalist Ken Klippenstein. He's famous now for publishing the Luigi Mangione manifesto. Let's go and put it up there on the screen on his substack. The only journalist to actually do so. So yesterday, Counterpoints did a good job of breaking the manifesto down. So maybe, Ken, we can get into the decision of your decision to publish this manifesto and also what you discovered about the mainstream media and why they decided not to publish it.

[Ryan Grim]

Hey, guys, good to be with you. So what I learned in the course of reporting on this and obtaining it, I didn't realize at first that so many of these major media outlets from the New York Times, the NBC, abc, the Washington Post had their own copies of it, were sitting on it, were quoting selectively from it, perfectly happy to do so, but for whatever reason, they weren't willing to publish it. And what I learned after speaking with friends and other contacts at these various outlets was that there was some pressure to report it, but that in the case of every one of those companies, senior management didn't want to.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Interesting. All right, so when you say senior management didn't want to, was it a management decision or there was some speculation, there was some deal with the police? What can you tell us about that?

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, so there are a couple of reasons that are cited. I think it's mainly an access problem, a problem of source capture, where you get this document from law enforcement. And if you look at the report reporting that's out there, that initially was paraphrasing it, and I said before quoting, in some cases from it, it's almost always attributed to a senior law enforcement official. That probably means the FBI. And what I was told, in the case of NBC, at least, there was an explicit deal with law enforcement that we give you this, you're not going to publish it. I don't know for certain that that's the case with other outlets. Yesterday I published a story based on internal chat records among the editorial staff on the New York Times in which they said, we're not going to publish it, and they made explicit reference to the wishes of their sources. So I think there's a serious problem of source capture here, which in the case of my publishing, it didn't apply to me, but applied to basically all these major outlets. So I think there's a really important critique of media here.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, that is a thing that happens between. And it's when you go, as Ken knows, it's called going in the front door. You go in the front door of an agency, you're going right to the spokespeople, basically, and you're saying, hey, do you have this manifesto? Can I have it? And when you go in the front door, they have the leverage because then they can say, yeah, we do have it actually, and I will give it to you. But the condition is you can't quote these parts or you can't publish it in full, but you can paraphrase or whatever, and then you're stuck. Okay, I can either agree to these terms and get something, or what you do is you go find other sources, you go in backdoors, or you go inside doors. What I was curious about, there are a couple times in the manifesto where it says indecipherable. Did you get a print version of it and it already said indecipherable, or could you yourself not decipher the handwriting?

[Ryan Grim]

So what law enforcement did was they were circulating their own copy of it because it's based on handwritten notes that.

[Hoda Kotb]

Maybe they typed up a version.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I see, exactly.

[Hoda Kotb]

So nobody has the original handwritten version yet.

[Ryan Grim]

I'm not sure that they don't have a photo of it somewhere. But what was interesting about it was when law enforcement circulated this, it wasn't just the kind of senior national security reporters. It ended up being shared with a bunch of people at these outlets, which I think undermines their whole argument that, you know, if people see this thing suddenly, like the Manchurian Candidate, there's going to be an activation. It's an activation word that's just going to turn everyone into homicidal maniacs. Somehow that doesn't apply to the media or their friends that they were sharing this stuff with. Because I had heard that there were people not at all related to law enforcement or this story or national security that were just socially like, oh, hey, check this out. You want this? And it's just the public. It's just the general public that can't see it. The media was all sharing it with each other.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So what I'm curious with here then, Ken, is I know that you had some reporting about inside the New York Times also about them not publishing a photo of Luigi Mangione. Can you tell us what's up with that?

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. So I got internal chat records of their editorial decision making. They had a directive from senior management that was sent out to the reporter saying, hey, let's quote, dial down our use of photos of this guy. Guy not use a picture of his face. In the statement I quoted in the story, it said, Something like, we're not sure about the ongoing newsworthiness of this or something. And then the next morning, they have a picture of him being marched to his arraignment, and it's just his back. He's completely. It's just like. It was comical, and it was, like, so childish. And I know that people at times are frustrated about this because again, again, something I want to stress when I critique the major media. These are not monoliths. There are good people in them that do good work and that don't agree with the dictates of senior management. But in this case, that is what the Times said. And I think it relates to the exact same thing we were talking about a moment ago, which is source capture. Law enforcement doesn't like that. They want to control the narrative. And look at how they've quoted from this story and used it to paint a certain picture of this guy. I can give you very. CNN had a segment where they were like, yep, the manifesto, it gives you a really clear idea that this guy is nuts. He's got some really serious psychiatric issues. And then we're not gonna tell you how we know that, and we're not gonna give you a passage that illustrates that, but just trust us, that's what it shows. And so it's very beneficial to law enforcement to be able to construct their own narrative and shape the public consciousness around what exactly happened when they don't give them the underlying documents. And that's the case now with the photograph, too, because I think there are kind of two arguments made in tandem. One being that, oh, like I said before, the activation code is going to cause the public to become violent, which to me is just like the 90s debate about violent video games causing shootings. You know, like, I don't find it very compelling. But you have to wonder if they even believe that, because in those same chats, while that might be the pretext, oh, you know, we care so much about public safety or whatever, which I think is problematic in itself, the reality is that they also have relationships with their sources and law enforcement that have their own wishes, who they don't want to alienate.

[Sagar Enjeti]

To me.

[Ryan Grim]

So those are kind of the two reasons that I saw.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It seems really paternalistic in the age of Twitter, in an election where everybody was online, this idea that they can control, like, whether people see this guy's photo or not go on social media, it's everywhere. It's all over tweck his own profile. Like, who are we to tell you what not to check or whatever. Cheryl will show you a photo of the guy. This is the photo that he put out there. Right?

[Hoda Kotb]

The.

[Sagar Enjeti]

This is. Now maybe there's a bigger conversation about glorifying killers or not. But Ken, you and I have been here long enough to know that there are plenty of terrorists and other people who've been front page on the New York Times. So what's up with this now? It's all about being selective.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, exactly. And it just speaks to the ludicrous self egoism that these major outlets have that they think that, oh, we didn't use the photo. Everybody, time to go home. We don't know what he looks like anyway. It's like, guys, the Times hasn't had that kind of power in like decades. You know, like you're not that important, man.

[Hoda Kotb]

And what's interesting about that decision is that the Times in recent years has become, and especially their editors have become increasingly obsessed about traffic numbers. Like in a way that they didn't used to be. It used to be everybody in the snake pit was fighting over getting on A one. Now it's about the push alert and traffic numbers. And a hot image like that is going to drive traffic. And so for them to cut against their own self interest is, is interesting because it suggests that there are these deeper, broader, more powerful interests at play here. Are you hearing anything about how the Times is directing or talking about guiding and framing the coverage itself? They're trying to grapple, I guess, with this upsurge of support for him while pushing it down because of their own politics.

[Ryan Grim]

Exactly. And I want to stress that directive came from the top. So it was a senior editor and he was saying, hey, we just got the. I don't remember what the exact words were, but we just got this from upstairs. And then they just quoted a statement. So this is clearly coming from the leadership of the paper. I don't want to give people the impression that I just found some random comment from some marginal person. This is the policy of the paper. And I would encourage people to go and check out on my substack the exact quote so they can see that this is something that's systemic and speaks to the concerns. I mean, when you get to that, I can only speculate. I don't know what's going on in the C suite of the New York Times, but I can see what's going on on in the rest of major media, on television and the public facing side, which is that they are extremely uncomfortable about all of this and they'd rather just pretend it's not happening. I mean, in the case of the manifesto that I published, very shortly after the Daily Beast confirmed its authenticity based on their own law enforcement sources, as did a couple of other websites, none of the major media has said a word about it. And when I try to get them on the record record to even just tell. Try to be responsible, like, here's their side of the story, here's why they said that they don't want to publish it. They wouldn't even respond. Not one. I contacted four major media outlets.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Wow.

[Ryan Grim]

I didn't get a single or something. They won't even articulate a reason for why you're not allowed to see this.

[Hoda Kotb]

The Times published the entire Unabomber manifesto.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah. Well, I guess they're probably a little bit theoretically, under. What was it? If I remember the circumstance, it was like he was like, if you don't publish it, then I'm going to attack some.

[Hoda Kotb]

I think they're still licking their wounds over that.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah. But the irony is that that's ended up being his demise. Because the only reason he got caught is because his brother recognized the Unabomber man and turned him in. Yeah, exactly. So if anything, it's a justified. I mean, again, if we could think back to the whole Unabomber thing also, how funny is it that he four starred the Unabomber manifesto? And let's all be honest, his manifesto is crap compared to.

[Hoda Kotb]

He phoned it in.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, it's a totally phoned in manifesto. You could say a lot about Ted, but he put a lot of thought into that thing. Okay. It was long. It was reasoned, especially volume one, Volume two. Things get a little crap, a little weird. But I think with this case, Ken, in terms of other stories and other things that you're chasing with respect to this, you have found an extraordinary amount of support from the public for just telling people what they want to hear, which I think is great. They want information. I'm not saying in a bad way. So, like, they want information, you're giving them the information. And instead these media outlets decide that they should be responsible for what other people get to hear and editorialize here and there. So can you just speak to that dynamic and how it's actually helped your own substack now by doing this.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. This whole thing that I regard as a pretext that, oh, we're protecting the public safety. And they say other things. They did this when I published the Vance dossier as well. Which is a very similar parallel case where all these outlets had it. They wouldn't publish it. They say things like, oh, it's not news, or hey, our paraphrase basically told you everything in there. So what do you need to see what's. What's under it? For which there's two problems with. I mean, you know, the coverage is dominated by a certain type of, you know, person in Washington or New York City who, even if they're trying their best to give the public a sense of what's relevant to their lives in it, how are they going to know? How is Volt Blitzer going to know? What some guy in I live in Wisconsin who is going to be like, oh, you know, this guy would be interested in that. He's going to have a Washington idea of what's interesting in it. So that's problematic in itself. But I think the bigger issue here is the fact that they think that they've sort of deputized themselves into being these public safety officers that are going to decide what's safe for the public, if that's even what they believe, if it's not just deals that they've cut with law enforcement like we were talking about before. And so in the case of all this, I just wish there was some kind of public discussion about they never articulate any of their policies around these, including around mass shooters and whatever their policy is on publication of photos. There's just no discussion. It's just kind of pretend it didn't happen. Which is precisely what's happened to the manifesto. Not one of these outlets has even I have messages. I didn't publish these saying, yes, we know this is authentic. That's the real thing, guys, just to give you a heads up. And they link to my substack. They won't acknowledge that publicly. They're just all pretending it didn't happen. It's very strange.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So stupid.

[Hoda Kotb]

Well, your substack's blowing up as a result of it, and that's great to see. Great, Great scoop. Ken. Thanks so much for joining us at KenKlippenstein.com, right, and that's where people can get your substack, right?

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. Probably the only one under that name.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes, that's right. And we will have a link to it down in the description of this video. Thanks for joining us, man. We appreciate you.

[Ryan Grim]

Good seeing you guys.

[Savannah Guthrie]

All right, we're all set for the party. I've trimmed the tree, hung the mistletoe, and pared all those weird shaped knives and fork works with the appropriate cheeses. And I plugged in the Bartesian bartisian It's a home cocktail maker that makes over 60 premium cocktails, plus a whole lot of seasonal favorites, too. I just got it for 50 off, so how about a Cosmopolitan or a Mistletoe Margarita?

[Ryan Grim]

I'm thirsty.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Watch. I just pop in a capsule, choose my strength and wow, it's beginning to.

[Ryan Grim]

Feel more seasonal in here already.

[Savannah Guthrie]

If your holiday party doesn't have a bartender, then you become the bartender tender. Unless you've got a Bartesian, because Bartesian crafts every cocktail perfectly in as little as 30 seconds. And I just got it for $50 off.

[Ryan Grim]

Tis the season to be jollier.

[Sagar Enjeti]

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[Ken Klippenstein]

Gifting is hard, but here's a hint. Give the gift of connection from US Cellular. Not sure what that means? Here's a slightly more specific hint. You can choose four free phones and get four lines for $90 a month from US Cellular. Your family wants new phones? How do we know? They told us. The good news is that compared to wrapping presents, you're great at getting hints. So take the hint and get them four free phones and four lines for $90 a month. US Cellular built for us.

[Savannah Guthrie]

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