12/12/24: Ukraine Helped Topple Assad, Trump Doesn't Trust Bibi, CNN Possible Syria Hoax Video, Dan Osborn On Future In Politics

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar – December 12, 2024 Episode Summary

Breaking Points is a bold, anti-establishment podcast hosted by Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti. In the December 12, 2024 episode, the hosts delve into critical geopolitical developments, scrutinize mainstream media narratives, and explore the future landscape of American politics through an exclusive interview with independent Senate candidate Dan Osborne.

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1. Ukraine’s Involvement in Syria and the Toppling of Assad

The episode opens with a groundbreaking revelation reported by David Ignatius of the Washington Post regarding Ukraine's clandestine operations in Syria. According to Ignatius, Ukrainian intelligence provided substantial support to Syrian rebel groups, notably Hayat Tahrir Al Sham (HTS), an Al Qaeda affiliate, aiming to destabilize Russian interests in the Middle East.

Key Points:

• Ukrainian Support to Syrian Rebels: Ukrainian intelligence dispatched approximately 20 drone operators and supplied 150 first-person view drones to HTS in Idlib around four to five years prior.
• Objective: This support was part of Ukraine’s broader strategy to exert pressure on Russia beyond the immediate battlefield, targeting Russian operations in the Middle East, Africa, and within Russia itself.
• Impact on Assad’s Regime: While the assistance played a modest role in overthrowing Bashar Al Assad, it underscored Ukraine’s covert efforts to bleed Russia’s resources and attention.

Notable Quote:

"Ukraine's covert assistance program in Syria has been an open secret," (03:41) – Krystal Ball

Discussion Highlights:

• Biden Administration’s Awareness: Despite the publicity, Biden officials maintained a stance of ignorance regarding Ukraine’s involvement, a claim they repeatedly denied (03:43).
• Strategic Implications: The collaboration not only impacted Syria but also extended to Russian mercenary activities in Africa, highlighting Ukraine’s multifaceted approach to undermining Russian power (04:06).

2. Donald Trump’s Position on Israel and Ukraine

The conversation shifts to President-elect Donald Trump’s recent designation as Time magazine’s Man of the Year and his commentary on the ongoing conflicts involving Ukraine and Israel.

Key Points:

• Trump’s Critique of Ukrainian Military Actions: Trump expressed concern over Ukrainian President Zelensky’s decision to launch missile strikes into Russia, labeling it a significant escalation (11:03).
• Skepticism Towards Israeli Leadership: When questioned about trusting Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Trump responded ambiguously, stating, "I don't trust anybody," (15:18) reflecting his broader distrust of established political figures.
• Vision for Middle East Peace: Trump outlined a desire for long-lasting peace in the region, hinting at a possible one-state solution, though acknowledging its improbability (15:19).

Notable Quote:

"I think the most dangerous thing right now is what's happening where Zelensky has decided, with the approval of, I assume, the President, to start shooting missiles into Russia." (11:03) – Donald Trump

Discussion Highlights:

• Impact of Trump’s Rhetoric: The hosts debate whether Trump’s statements are genuine concerns or calculated rhetoric to shape public opinion and policy.
• Israel-Hamas Dynamics: Trump’s push for negotiations between Israel and Hamas, particularly the recent meetings in Doha, raises hopes for a potential resolution but remains fraught with skepticism (16:10).

3. CNN’s Potential Syria Hoax Video

Krystal and Saagar scrutinize a controversial video released by CNN’s Clarissa Ward, which purportedly depicts a dramatic rescue in a former Assad prison. The authenticity of the footage has sparked intense debate.

Key Points:

• Description of the Video: The video shows Clarissa Ward entering a prison cell, only to discover, under a blanket, a man claiming to have been held without water or food for several days (22:49).
• Skepticism and Analysis: The hosts question the plausibility of the scenario, citing discrepancies such as the lack of visible evidence of prolonged captivity and the absence of sounds indicating violence during the cell’s opening (25:58).
• Historical Context: References to Clarissa Ward’s past activism and intense coverage of Syria add layers of complexity to the narrative, suggesting potential biases or staged elements (28:40).

Notable Quote:

"It just seems too good to be true." (24:02) – Saagar Enjeti

Discussion Highlights:

• Verification Challenges: The inability to independently verify the authenticity of the footage raises concerns about journalistic integrity and potential propaganda.
• Impact on Public Perception: If the video is indeed a hoax, it could significantly undermine trust in major news outlets like CNN.

4. Interview with Independent Senate Candidate Dan Osborne

The latter part of the episode features an exclusive interview with Dan Osborne, an independent Senate candidate from Nebraska who garnered significant support in the recent election, outperforming Democratic candidate Kamala Harris in key aspects.

Key Points:

• Campaign Strategy: Osborne emphasizes “paycheck populism,” focusing on economic issues that resonate with the working class, such as fair pay, property ownership, and minimal governmental interference (34:09).
• Challenges in Candidate Recruitment: He discusses the difficulties in finding genuine, working-class candidates willing to step away from lucrative careers to run for office, highlighting his establishment of the Working Class Heroes Fund to support such candidates (35:33).
• Advice for the Democratic Party: Osborne suggests that the Democratic Party needs to prioritize real, working-class candidates over political operatives who rely heavily on fundraising prowess (37:41).

Notable Quote:

"Less than 2% of our elected officials in both the House and Senate come from the working class." (38:10) – Dan Osborne

Discussion Highlights:

• Fundraising via Small Donations: Osborne credits his campaign’s success to grassroots fundraising, where the majority of contributions were small-dollar donations averaging around $40, demonstrating the power of grassroots support over traditional big-dollar funding (43:51).
• Future Political Aspirations: With significant momentum, Osborne expresses intentions to continue running for office, targeting other key races and expanding the Working Class Heroes Fund to support more candidates nationwide (43:57).

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Conclusion

In this episode of Breaking Points, Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti provide a critical examination of Ukraine’s secretive involvement in Syria, dissect President-elect Trump’s ambiguous stances on international conflicts, question the veracity of CNN’s recent Syria footage, and spotlight the emerging influence of independent candidates like Dan Osborne in reshaping American politics. The hosts encourage listeners to question mainstream narratives and support movements that prioritize genuine representation and accountability.

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Notable Quotes Recap:

• "Ukraine's covert assistance program in Syria has been an open secret," – Krystal Ball (03:41)
• "I think the most dangerous thing right now is what's happening where Zelensky has decided, with the approval of, I assume, the President, to start shooting missiles into Russia." – Donald Trump (11:03)
• "It just seems too good to be true." – Saagar Enjeti (24:02)
• "Less than 2% of our elected officials in both the House and Senate come from the working class." – Dan Osborne (38:10)

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This detailed summary captures the essence of the episode, highlighting significant discussions, key insights, and notable quotations, providing a comprehensive overview for those who haven’t listened to Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar.

Transcript

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[Savannah Guthrie]

Hi everyone. It's Savannah Guthrie and Hoda Copy from the Today show.

[Advertiser 2]

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[Savannah Guthrie]

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[Hoda Kotb]

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[Advertiser 2]

Hey, guys, Sager and Crystal here.

[Independent Media Host 1]

Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.

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[Advertiser 2]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see [e-mail] all right, let's go now to the situation in Syria. Some absolutely stunning news just broken Very nonchalantly by David Ignatius over at the Washington Post. Some might call him the CIA whisperer. Let's go ahead and put this up there on the screen. So Syrian rebels had help from Ukraine in humiliating Russia. Interesting. The Syrian rebels, otherwise known as Al Qaeda, by the way, who swept to power in Damascus last weekend, quote, received drones and other support from Ukrainian intelligence operatives who sought to undermine Russia and its Syrian allies. Quote, Ukrainian Intelligence sent about 20 experienced drone operators and 150 first person view drones to the rebel headquarters in Idlib for four or five years ago to help Hayat Tahrir Al Sham hts, AKA Al Qaeda, the leading rebel group there. Knowledgeable sources said the aid from Kyiv played a modest role in overthrowing Bashar Al Assad, but it was notable as part of a broader Ukrainian effort to strike covertly at Russian operations in the Middle East, Africa and inside Russia itself. And then he continues to say Ukraine's covert assistance program in Syria has been an open secret. Biden officials said, and repeatedly, in answer to my questions, that they weren't aware of it, though.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Biden, that was an open secret that we didn't know.

[Advertiser 2]

Ukraine's motivation is obvious. Facing Russian onslaught, Ukrainian intelligence has looked for other fronts where it can bloody Russia's nose and undermine its clients. The Ukrainians have even advertised their intentions. Kiev Post in June 3rd quoted a source from Ukrainian intelligence said that since the beginning of the year, the rebels, supported by Ukrainian operatives, have inflicted numerous strikes on Russian military facilities represented in the region. Ryan.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Yeah, and the Africa point is key too, because Russia has, or at least has mercenaries that are active in Africa. And so Ukraine is messing with them there, too. But I think that they caught the car here. I think what Ukraine was hoping to do here is to do what the US Loves to do with Russia all over the place, which is to just cause it enough problems to like, drain it of some of its energy and people.

[Advertiser 2]

This one. Remember Nord Stream, when I said it wasn't them?

[Independent Media Host 2]

I do remember Nordstream.

[Advertiser 2]

It turned out to be them. Even David Ignatius says it's them. Interesting.

[Independent Media Host 2]

But I don't think they meant to actually overthrow the entire government because now all the effort that Russia was investing in propping up Assad, they can like, all right, yeah.

[Advertiser 2]

They're like, okay, we're done. Yeah, cool.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Now we got a whole bunch of weapons and energy and time and resources that we can put further.

[Advertiser 2]

Assad apparently fled there with a lot of Western fronts so he can pay off Russians.

[Independent Media Host 2]

That's right. He's not gonna get to keep.

[Advertiser 2]

He's like the Shah of Iran barely loaded down with gold.

[Independent Media Host 2]

He's lucky that plane was able to take all of them.

[Advertiser 2]

Yeah, that's right before he's able to land. And Moscow, I'm sure it'll be fine sitting here. Moscow's a beautiful city. You're gonna enjoy it, I guess, for your years, but you're exactly right. So now the Russians are like, okay, whatever, you know, our guy is gone. So, okay, we now can focus 100% of our military resources here.

[Independent Media Host 2]

And so, yeah, not. Not great for Ukraine necessarily.

[Advertiser 2]

No, not.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Not at all.

[Advertiser 2]

You know, another thing that I just saw is that this actually could, could increase the. It could increase Russian resolve in Ukraine because they're like, well, now facing the. Facing a quote, unquote humiliation or a setback of our major strategic objectives in the outer sphere of our geopolitical interests, then in our own backyard of this war that we're engaged in, that means we must commit all resources and go all out in this war. So it actually could end up backfiring on them. I mean, I guess even the Ukrainians. Nobody in US Intelligence anywhere had any idea that the entire War, a 14 year civil war, resolved in 13 days. Come on. Nobody. Which is ironic, though. We pay how many billions of dollars a year for these intelligence assessments and others the CIA did.

[Independent Media Host 2]

We don't even know our boy in South Korea is about to do martial law. Exactly. Come on.

[Advertiser 2]

I think I sent a tweet to that. I'm like, we probably spend 20, 40, 50, 80 billion just on covert intelligence. Did anybody tap the guy's phone and say, hey, there's going to be a attempted coup in South Korea, which is, by the way, our sixth largest trading partner. More than France. We do several trillion dollars a year or, sorry, $100 billion a year in bilateral trade.

[Independent Media Host 2]

No.

[Advertiser 2]

Oh, we just had no idea. And by the way, a massive Air force base there as well, under the United States. Same in Syria. I mean, let's all be honest, we've had our fingers on that situation all over the place.

[Independent Media Host 2]

How do you not see your own takeover?

[Advertiser 2]

Yeah, we have thousands of troops who are stationed illegally in the country who possibly could be at risk now from.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Well, we got about 900, I think, plus all the mercenaries, but that's what.

[Advertiser 2]

I was going to say. 900 officially. But all these contractors, 40,000.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Yes.

[Advertiser 2]

All these guys are rolling around the country on the US Dime. If they get killed. How about this? If they get killed or wounded, who's coming to save them? I think we all know the answer.

[Independent Media Host 2]

And more to your point on the geopolitics involved here, Turkey and Russia basically been adversaries for hundreds almost and in.

[Advertiser 2]

This country in particular, of years.

[Independent Media Host 2]

And so by taking an L here, like you said, it further incentivizes them to take on NATO in Ukraine. Turkey, a member of NATO, and the a fulcrum of their competition is in Eastern Europe and in the Caucasus regions. And so all of it bleeds together in a way that, yeah, I don't think spells anything remotely good for the Ukrainian cause here.

[Advertiser 2]

Yeah, no, I totally agree. Just looking through all of this, I just see, you know, for the Ukrainians, it's like they're just grasping at straws.

[Host 1]

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[Host 2]

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[Host 1]

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[Host 2]

Feel more seasonal in here already.

[Host 1]

If your holiday party doesn't have a bartender, then you become the bartender. Unless you've got a Bartesian, because Bartesian crafts every cocktail perfectly in as little as 30 seconds. And I just got it for $50 off.

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[Advertiser 2]

By the way, there's been just an interesting development. Just this morning, Donald Trump was officially named Time magazine's Man of the Year. Something that you as a child of the 80s will know, Ryan, that he takes very seriously. He takes it very, very seriously. He's gonna frame that sucker for people my age. I think this is his third Time Person of the Year. For people my age, Time Person of the Year will always be the YouTube 2006, the mirror cover. You are the Time Person. One of the absolute dumbest. It might be one of the dumbest stunts of all time. For me, Time See, time has no cachet. You read about it. It's kind of like Life magazine. You know, it was once important. It means nothing to you. Time for kids is about as big as it gets, which I remember sitting in a doctor's office or something like that. But Trump takes it very seriously. He did sit down with them for a long interview so I can give an interesting quote here. He was asked about Ukraine and he says, quote, I think the most dangerous thing right now is what's happening where Zelensky has decided, with the approval of, I assume, the President, to start shooting missiles into Russia. I think that's a major escalation. I think it's a foolish decision, but I would imagine people are waiting until I get in before anything happens. I would imagine, I think that they would be very smart to do that. So he's asked twice by this idiot interviewer, would you abandon Ukraine? And he says some more interesting stuff. It makes it so bad. I had a meeting recently with a group of people from the government where they come in and brief me and I'm not talking out of turn. The numbers of dead soldiers that have been killed in the last month are the numbers that are staggering. Both Russians and Ukrainians. And the amounts are fairly equal. You know, I know they like to say they weren't, but they're fairly equal. The numbers of dead young soldiers lying on fields all over the place are staggering. It's crazy what's taking place. I disagree vehemently with sending missiles, hundreds of missiles into Russia. Why are they doing that? We are escalating the war and making it worse. That should not have been allowed to be done. Now, are they doing not only missiles, but they're doing other types of weapons. Interesting. I think it's a very big mistake. Very big mistake. But the level. The number of people dying is number one, not sustainable. And I'm talking on both sides. It's really an advantage to both sides to get this thing done. So. Interesting rhetoric, at least there from the President elect.

[Independent Media Host 2]

We talk about Trump as one of the, like, most clear examples of a narcissist ever in, like, a world history.

[Advertiser 2]

But his yet I wouldn't go that far.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Yeah, he's still right. Yeah, I would say.

[Advertiser 2]

I would put him up there with all other presidents.

[Independent Media Host 2]

All other presidents, yeah.

[Advertiser 2]

But he gets talked about in his own unique way. I agree.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Yeah. Yet he talks so frequently about the number of killed in this conflict that it just feels like it has to come from somewhere genuine.

[Advertiser 2]

Like, yeah, like, I. I agree. I don't know where it comes from.

[Independent Media Host 2]

But, I mean, good for him because, like, you know.

[Advertiser 2]

Well, it goes to that famous CNN clap, remember? Where she's like, are you gonna abandon Ukraine? And he said, I want to stop the dying. Yes. And she keeps saying, like, do you want Ukraine to win? It's amazing. Want them to live again. When you read these idiots, they're just like, will you abandon Ukraine? People around the world want to know, will you abandon Ukraine? So the question people want to know is, will you abandon Ukraine? Will you commit to protecting Ukrainian sovereignty? I mean, again, what. What is. I mean, the current government doesn't protect Ukrainian sovereignty. Right. The current United States government, basically, since Obama on, is like, yeah, Crimea, it's bad, but, you know, what are you gonna do about it? Okay, so is that what you're saying? Like, these people have no idea what they're even talking about or the stakes. That's part of the way. Another reason I'm annoyed by it is that if you had asked it in a different way, how will you handle Ukraine in a more neutral way, we might have gotten Some more interesting information. How about a real interview? You know what I would dig down on be like, okay, plus, Ukrainian President Zelensky says 73,000 people have been killed in the war. What does that mean to you, Mr. President? Mr. President elect, who's just received a classified briefing, maybe you get something out of that, right? That's how you actually get some information out of your subject. Just reading through this is maddening, but it is clear, at least right now he's talking in an interesting way. Also, before we get to your Israel thing, Ryan, he did say something interesting. They said, do you trust BB Netanyahu? He says, I don't trust anybody.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Yeah, you should.

[Advertiser 2]

And on the question of Israel being allowed to annex the west bank, he says, what I'm doing, I want a long lasting peace. I'm not saying that's a very likely scenario, but I want a long lasting peace. A peace where you don't have October 7th. There are numerous ways you can do it. You can do it two state, but there are numerous ways it can be done. And I'd like to see who can be happy, but I'd like to see everybody be happy, everybody go about their lives and people stop dying. That includes on many different fronts. I mean, we have some tremendous world problems that we didn't have when I was president. You know, when I left, Iran was not very threatening. They had no money and they weren't giving it to Hamas or Hezbollah. So not a no, not a yes. He says two state, but you can do it in many different ways. So maybe he's like a Peter Beinart and he wants to do a one state solution.

[Independent Media Host 2]

I mean, that's the just solution at this point. It's the only one on the table.

[Advertiser 2]

The one state Arab.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Where do you put his.

[Advertiser 2]

The one Arab state that would happen?

[Independent Media Host 2]

I mean, it's in the Middle East.

[Advertiser 2]

Okay, well, we all know that's not gonna happen, right? Under Donald Trump. It is interesting though, just reading through this. There's some skepticism there of Israel. He says that he wants that. He told Bibi he does want the war to come to an end by the time that he does take the office. And apparently there were some meetings between the Israeli government and Hamas in Doha that just happened yesterday. So that's a segue for you can set up, right?

[Independent Media Host 2]

Yeah. No, to that point, there is, I think, genuine hope that there will be some type of a deal. Hamas is backing off on some of its red lines now. Hamas is saying that they would allow IDF troops to temporarily remain in Gaza as they work through the prisoner exchange. Previously, Hamas had said the exchange could only happen if the IDF agreed to completely withdraw from Gaza. What gives people the hope is that Trump is making it extremely clear to Israel that he wants this deal done. The reason a deal hasn't gotten done over the last year, it's quite clear Israel had, through Netanyahu, made a bet sometime around December, January last year that Trump might win and that he had enough of a chance to win that it was worth completely bucking Biden, ignoring him, taking a few lumps here and there, a few complaints from Matt Miller every couple months after the latest atrocity or spread of famine, and then just bank on Trump winning and then reset from there. So that's over. Trump has been very clear he wants a deal. The Israeli public desperately wants the hostages home. And what else is there to accomplish at this point in Gaza, the northern part, where Israel is relentlessly assaulting Indonesian hospital and Kamal Adwan Hospital, killing doctors, killing nurses, killing patients, killing their families to completely depopulate northern Gaza. It's flat. Flat like what? There was a survey that came out said half of the children in Gaza wish they were dead. And that's on top of the 10,000 plus that are dead from this. What more do you need to do? What more? And if Trump wants this done, then that puts pressure on Netanyahu. The US has always been the one that can make this happen, period. So we'll see. That's why I think people are hopeful that these moves in Doha might actually amount to something. To your point, we also have this pretty fascinating story at Dropsite we can put up on the screen here by Sammy Vanderlip, where he exposed this US nonprofit called Friends of Paratrooper Sniper Unit 202. Okay, so this is a C3, so you can make.

[Advertiser 2]

It's a nonprofit here in the U.S.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Tax deductible contributions to the U.S. and it purchases, quote, helmets, rain gear, barrels, vests, sniper stands, silencers, camouflage, et cetera.

[Advertiser 2]

Is this illegal?

[Independent Media Host 2]

It is raised. Well, we're going to see because certainly complaints are going to be filed against this. So they raised in 2023, $304,000 and bought equipment and sent it over there. And our correspondents over there obtained footage of this unit killing unarmed Palestinians and acknowledging it. So US Taxpayer subsidization. So not only are we buying their weapons, like buying the basic weapons, but if the sniper unit feels like it needs even higher tech to shoot and kill unarmed civilians, then they can get a tax deduction.

[Advertiser 2]

Well, you have some photos of that. Can we put E3 there on the screen, please? We're not gonna show some of them. They're extremely graphic. But we do have a slideshow that we can put up there. E3, if you can. So Ryan can just tell us what we're watching.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Yeah. And it's from such a distance that at least it's not graphic in a Hollywood sense. But the images that. And the videos that our reporters obtained, you know, show the sniper unit ending people's lives, and that's what's graphic, because you're watching a life be snuffed out. An unarmed civilian who one moment is alive and through the squeeze of a trigger, of a gun paid for by the United States and with a scope, paid for by a US Nonprofit, that their life is over the next moment. And it's just. It's just too. It's just horrifying. It's so horrifying to even contemplate just going out to get a bag of flour or whatever.

[Advertiser 2]

I have to think it's illegal, though, because I remember that there was this congressional staffer here in Washington who in his spare time was, like, buying military equipment and flying it to Ukraine, which is classic, of course. And I think he got stopped. The only reason we know about this is he got stopped at the airport trying to transport military equipment. And they were like, hey, man, you know, this is illegal. Like, you know, you're not allowed to be carrying weapons to a foreign military. I think you need an export license or something like that.

[Independent Media Host 2]

If they can get around it, it would be because it's accessories to weapons. Oh, like, it's a scope. It's night vision goggles. It's.

[Advertiser 2]

Yeah, but even then, I'm pretty sure. I mean, I know the list. I think the list even includes bulletproof vests, like, in terms of.

[Independent Media Host 2]

But you also need a public interest purpose to be a nonprofit. So I guess they can argue that.

[Advertiser 2]

Well, the law is crazy, as, you know, in terms of what's allowed and what's not, in terms of 501. But nobody will touch it because of the IRS scandal from back in the day under Obama, which, I mean, that was a crazy scandal. But because of that, the leeway on 501C3 has become so broad that people just don't want to touch it. I don't know. It's a crazy story, man. I know.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Yeah, it's wild.

[Advertiser 2]

Absolutely. Okay, let's go to the next part. We had to put this in the show. Extraordinary video now coming out of Syria. CNN's Clarissa Ward purports to be in a former Assad prison. While she's in the prison, they discover a cell, a cell that has not been opened. The rebel al Qaeda person who is her guardian shoots the door open, opens it, and they discover, allegedly, a prisoner who's been in there for four or five days without water, without food, who clings to her, sees the light. And it's supposed to be a very dramatic scene. There's a lot of questions about this, but we're gonna show it to you first. Yeah, no, it's very impactful if it's true. It's very impactful, but we'll talk about the questions. We're gonna show it to you first, and we'll talk about it afterwards. I can't tell, though.

[Host 1]

It might just be a blanket, but.

[Independent Media Host 2]

It'S the only cell that's locked.

[Advertiser 2]

Is he gonna shoot it?

[Savannah Guthrie]

The guard makes us turn the camera off while he shoots the lock off the cell door. We go in to get a closer look. It's still not clear if there is something under the blanket.

[Advertiser 2]

Oh, it moved.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Is there someone there? I thought I saw it move. Is someone there?

[Host 1]

Or is it just like.

[Independent Media Host 2]

I don't know.

[Dan Osborne]

Hello?

[Advertiser 2]

Okay.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Okay.

[Advertiser 2]

It's water.

[Savannah Guthrie]

It's water.

[Advertiser 2]

Okay, okay.

[Savannah Guthrie]

After three months in a windowless cell, you can finally see the sky.

[Advertiser 2]

All right. I mean, so again, if it's real, very impactful, but there's a number of questions. So Mediaites. Charlie Nash has a lot of them, and he raises a few. Number one, in this new video, Ward are led by armed guard, a member of the new Islamist regime. They take CNN on a tour through the complex. They, quote, soon stumble upon a locked cell in a prison which has been completely emptied, and the prisoners are all freed. The guard makes us turn off the camera while he shoots the lock off the door. Viewers do not get to see the guard opening the door. After a fade to black, we see Ward and the camera crew enter the cell. From what we can see, the cell is clean. There is no waste, only a blanket, which Ward repeatedly calls out to see if anyone's underneath. Receiving no response, the guard lifts the blanket, revealing a man who gets up and raises his hand. He looks healthy. His clothes are clean, his hair and nails are trimmed. He says he's been in his cell for three or four months without food or water for four days. Presumably, the man did not hear the guards shooting the lock off of his door or the camera crew crawling out to him. A few feared away but he appears to be in fine enough condition. Again, look, we're speculating on this. I don't know, but I mean, a lot of this rings true, so I'll come to you in a second, Ryan. They escort the man outside instead of taking him straight to the hospital. The doctor, the logical thing to do with somebody who's been a windowless cell for three months without food or water for four days. They sit him in a chair and they inter asked by Anderson Cooper what is known about this man? Ward admits, well, we don't know because as you can see from the report, he's in a deep state of shock. She says she knows nothing about the man or if any of his statements are even true. Everything in the report is taken at face value from the guard opening the door that quote they were not allowed to film to the prisoner's claim. So that's what I would be a little bit skeptical of. It just seems too good to be true. Call me cynical or whatever. I look at that immediately. I was like, I don't know about this movie. You know, it's just weird. It's weird. The videos of people being spontaneously freed where you have dozens of people pouring. That's okay. I believe that, you know, and you can see some of that. It seems real. It seems real. Again, look, you know, who knows about what we're allowed to or see or not?

[Independent Media Host 2]

But we do.

[Dan Osborne]

We.

[Independent Media Host 2]

I mean, we definitely know that thousands of people were held in Assad's dungeons.

[Advertiser 2]

That's right.

[Independent Media Host 2]

And now those dungeons are out.

[Advertiser 2]

That's been assessed for a long time. Yeah, you're right.

[Independent Media Host 2]

So that's absolutely real. This is like four days without water.

[Advertiser 2]

That's a long time.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Four days without food is one thing.

[Advertiser 2]

Isn't there a three rule? It's like three days without water, three weeks without food. Was it three seconds without oxygen or something? I forget what the number is, but.

[Independent Media Host 2]

I can hold my breath more than three seconds.

[Advertiser 2]

What was it, 30 seconds?

[Independent Media Host 2]

Three minutes?

[Advertiser 2]

Maybe three minutes.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Three minutes. So four days without water. Three or four days without water would. Your face would look different. Your face would be parched.

[Advertiser 2]

Yeah.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Oh, yeah.

[Advertiser 2]

You'd be sunken, you'd.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Your tongue would be completely.

[Advertiser 2]

Like they said, there's no waste, there's no bathroom, you know.

[Dan Osborne]

Right.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Well, where's the bucket?

[Advertiser 2]

Exactly.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Why do you not hear the gun?

[Advertiser 2]

Yeah, well, he didn't hear the gun.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Did he not notice that the entire was emptied out?

[Advertiser 2]

Because the previous video.

[Independent Media Host 2]

There's cells everywhere around him.

[Advertiser 2]

The previous videos, people have been so the moment that lock pops off, boom, they're all rushing out, right? And people are screaming, cheering, and they're so, you know, happy to be freed, et cetera. Yeah, I don't. This one just doesn't seem right to me. I could be wrong. Totally. Maybe somebody should find this guy and ask him and get his whole backstory. They say he's been three months, he saved from the city of Holmes. Let's go to homes, because somebody go find this guy and she'll be like, who are you? Did you actually get in prison? Was this all an act? Or maybe you were a legitimate prisoner and they told you to act this way. Listen, they want the best media in the world right? Now. There's a fierce debate here in Washington. Remember, their leader, Al Jahlani, is a wanted $10 million bounty terrorist by the United States State Department. The Brits are currently wondering whether they should take him off of their list so they can diplomatically recognize his government. And, you know, again, frankly, they should. I mean, I mean, yeah, you know, I don't have a problem, like, look, I'm a person who said, you know, I'm not pro Taliban, but they won the civil war. It's like, okay, you know, what are you gonna do? Well, I think what troubles me in this case is that this is a group which explicitly at one point was understood to be an Al Qaeda backed regime. But then we decided that we hate Assad more than we hate them. And so we're all just okay with them taking power and we're not really asking a lot of questions about what the future of this country is gonna look like and the potential fallout. Their own religious minorities, there's just so much triumphalism. People hate Assad so much that they're not willing to wonder, maybe it's way worse what comes next. And all of the reports are about JELANI and about HTs is that they're branding champions. They change their name, they distance themselves, allegedly from Al Qaeda. They've been reading book and studying the west and how to have good relations with them. So it seemed to me to fit with something like this. Just me personally. That's what I thought.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Yeah. I don't think that she was in on it.

[Advertiser 2]

No, I agree. I don't think she was in on it. Oh, can you tell the context, though, about Clarissa Ward?

[Independent Media Host 2]

Oh, yeah. So the thing that was getting circulated, I think Glenn Greenwald had flagged it at some point earlier in the war. So it would have been 2016 or 2015. She did an interview with Mike Morrell and said that she. Well, I don't know when the interview was, but she said in that interview that she had sent a very harsh note to Ben Rhodes, who was Obama's national security adviser. And the note said something like, I hope that you are sleeping well tonight while something like the freedom fighters of Syria are being crushed by Assad. And she said, I cop to crossing the line on this story on Syria where I have gone from a journalist to an activist. This is what she said to Michael Morrell, CIA guy, in an interview with him. So if somebody was going to be kind of blinkered into this, it would have to be somebody who feels a deep ideological commitment to supporting this outcome.

[Advertiser 2]

You could understand it from our perspective. I'm not justifying it. I'm saying you can understand it. You've been covering this probably for a decade. You've seen a lot of people get killed.

[Independent Media Host 2]

An Assad, murderous, brutal.

[Advertiser 2]

Yeah. You've seen people dictate. Yeah. You've seen people beheaded, whatever.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Her driver was killed.

[Advertiser 2]

That's right, her driver was killed. So a lot of these guys, Richard Engel and a few others, they all have personal experience in this. Although the Engel thing, you know what I'm talking about. What was that when he was allegedly kidnapped? Oh, there's still a lot. That's a weird story too, I gotta be honest. If you want to go.

[Independent Media Host 2]

There was one with Clyserists in Sudan also.

[Advertiser 2]

Oh, really?

[Independent Media Host 2]

Is there questions about a weird pick, weird detention or something? Anyways, I mean, she's also very physically courageous.

[Advertiser 2]

No. Yeah, no one is putting her down.

[Independent Media Host 2]

She puts herself in all the time.

[Advertiser 2]

She did a good job in Afghanistan, I thought.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Yeah, that was good.

[Advertiser 2]

That was really good. The fall of Kabul while the Taliban.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Streaming in, stood her ground.

[Advertiser 2]

She did really good interviews, but nobody's infallible. And there's some potential questions here at cnn, to be honest. If this turned out to be staged, this would be like a Brian Williams style scandal. If true, that's fine. I would like someone to go interview this guy.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Clarissa should break it, huh?

[Advertiser 2]

Yeah, you're right.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Go break that news.

[Advertiser 2]

Yeah. The only way to redeem yourself is to then figure out who this guy is, figure out who he is and to answer the questions just to maintain your own story.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Because some people were speculating, oh, maybe it was a guard who just wanted to stay there. But then it's like, well, how'd he lock himself in?

[Advertiser 2]

Yeah, that's right. Anyway, weird stuff. Weird stuff. All right, We've got independent Senate candidate Dan Osborne. Let's get to it.

[Host 1]

All right, we're all set for the party. I've trimmed the tree, hung the mistletoe, and paired all those weird shaped knives and forks with the appropriate cheeses. And I plugged in the partisan.

[Host 2]

Partisan.

[Host 1]

It's a home cocktail maker that makes over 60 premium cocktails, plus a whole lot of seasonal favorites too. I just got it for 50 off, so how about a clasmopolitan or a mistletoe margarita?

[Host 2]

I'm thirsty.

[Host 1]

Watch. I just pop in a capsule, choose my strength and wow, it's beginning to.

[Host 2]

Feel more seasonal in here already.

[Host 1]

If your holiday party doesn't have a bartender, then you become the bartender. Unless you've got a Bartesian, because Bartesian crafts every cocktail perfectly in as little as 30 seconds. And I just got it for $50 off.

[Host 2]

Tis the season to be jollier.

[Advertiser 1]

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[Advertiser 3]

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[Independent Media Host 2]

Coming out of the November election, the Associated Press did an analysis we can put up on the screen here comparing Senate Democratic candidates to Kamala Harris. And they found that one particular candidate who was not in fact a Senate Democratic candidate, outperformed all other Democrats across the country by more than any other. And his name was Dan Osborne, who was running as an independent in Nebraska. It turned out not to be enough to overcome the partisan lean of Nebraska, but he came extremely close to being the next senator from that state. And we're joined now by Dan Osborne, the independent Senate candidate. Dan, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us.

[Advertiser 2]

Good to see you, sir.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Thanks.

[Dan Osborne]

Yeah. Thanks for having me on.

[Advertiser 2]

You're welcome.

[Independent Media Host 2]

All right, so down the stretch, it seemed like the partisan nature of our politics really started to lock itself into the race. And I actually wanted to ask you about something that I saw towards the very end. You had never said who you were going to caucus with or whether you were going to caucus with either party. You were going to be an independent, and you were going to see what was best for Nebraska. Down the stretch, Senator Chuck Schumer, the majority leader, started saying publicly, go out and vote for Dan Osborne to help Democrats here in Washington. Meanwhile, as far as I can tell, Senate Democrats actually did nothing in the state of Nebraska to help you win. When he started saying that, did that get spread around Nebraska? And what was your reaction when you started seeing that from kind of coastal Democrats?

[Dan Osborne]

Well, you know, I don't believe that part of it got spread around. You know, that was. That was Deb Fisher's negative campaign. Right out of the gate. We turned in 12,000 signatures from around the state to get on the ballot. We needed four. And then the first independent poll came out that had Fisher at 39 and me at 38. And so she went negative right out of the gate, you know. You know, that's. That's what she had. She was calling me a radical leftist and saying, spreading all these lies about immigration, about me. And I suppose at the end of the day, unfortunately, the lies won, but, you know, we remained positive and just trying to tell the people in Nebraska what I wanted to do for them because I heard, you know, I did 200 public events around the state, and I listened to Nebraskans every single day and what it is they want and what it is they want was, you know, first of all, they want to know that if you work hard in this country, that you can get ahead, that your paycheck matters, that you're going to be able to have, you know, houses, some property, cars, put money aside for Christmas and college. And then mostly they want to be left alone. People don't want handouts for the most part. They understand some folks need the handouts, of course, but that was it. So I kind of coined the term recently, paycheck populism, because I was doing an interview similar to this and they said, well, you ran off an economic populism message. And I was like, oh, I don't really know what that means because the economy is so broad and deep. What people want to know is that their paycheck matters if you work hard.

[Advertiser 2]

Yeah. Dan, I'm curious for your reaction. You started a hybrid pack to talk about this, but there's been a lot of discourse here in Washington about what, what should the Democratic Party do to win back Trump voters so you at least have some credibility. You won 46.5% of the vote in the deep red state of Nebraska. So what's your advice to the Democratic Party or anybody else who wants to challenge the current establishment GOP for how they can win a similar amount of votes that you?

[Dan Osborne]

Yeah, I think, you know, you just gotta be real. I think candidate recruitment's so important, and that's what I'm doing right now with this Working Class heroes pack. It's designed to emulate what we did here in Nebraska. We're going to go out, we've targeted multiple races, top of the ticket races all the way down ballot, on the overperformance that we had. If we were to, you know, the targets designed it. If Osborne were to run in those areas, we would have won. So we're certainly going to target more races. And it's all about candidate recruitment. We're hiring people, we're starting the process on Monday, and we're gonna go into different districts around the country and find working class people that you know and pluck them out. Because for me, that's the most important part. Less than 2% of our elected officials in both the House and Senate come from the working class. So it's a complete misrepresentation. You know, it's the millionaires that work for billionaires and we need a seat at the table. So that's what this is designed to do.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Yeah. There's an interesting view here in Washington, I think, about that type of candidate recruitment where people Say, well, okay, yeah, Dan Osborne did really well. But you gotta think about it. You know, he's a union organizer. He was a union leader in the state that led this successful strike. He's a veteran, he's well spoken, he comes across well. And you know, we just can't find many people like that. But that's because from my perspective, they're sitting here in Washington D.C. or the suburbs of Washington D.C. and they're looking around at their neighbors. And yes, if that's your pool of candidates, then, yeah, you're not going to find a lot of Dan Osbournes. But if you go outside of Washington, then you just might. But I'm curious what the challenge has been for you as you've started to kind of look for other people around the country who can fit the mold, so to speak, break the DC mold and fit a new mold. Are there the people out there to run the kind of campaigns that you're talking about?

[Dan Osborne]

Yeah. And yeah, the inherent challenge is it's probably easier to find a self funder, right, that can step away from their role at their fancy law firm or wherever they're coming from. No offense against lawyers, but you know, we need those folks as well. But it's, the challenge is going to be having somebody be able to do what I did is step aside from your role, hopefully get a leave of absence from your job and take the plunge and take that, take that dive. So what it's going to, what we're going to produce is we're going to produce people that, that are passionate about what they're doing for all the right reasons because they love this country just like I do, they love their state and they want to make a difference. You know, the. So but what, what the PAC again is designed to do is hopefully take some of the ease off of that decision. For me, it was, it was extremely difficult. We had no, we had no framework to start. It was just an idea. And we built, we were building the plane as we were learning how to fly it. So, you know, and we had very difficult time fundraising in the beginning. And right now we've raised over six figures. We're confident that we're going to be able to raise enough money to support candidates financially as they move forward and give them a kind of a boost when right out of the gate that we didn't have.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Yeah. And for people who don't know what you're talking about with, it's easier to go kind of recruit a lawyer. The dccc, which recruits House candidates for Instance has a thing. And this is not picking on the dccc. This is the Republicans and Democrats. They have a thing that they kind of call the phone test, which is when a candidate is thinking about running and meeting with party operatives here in Washington, D.C. they'll say, take out your phone and scroll through this and tell us how you can find $100,000 in the next 10 minutes. And she was supposed to go through your contact list. You're like, oh, Steve, he's good for five grand. Kevin, he can do five. Diane, he can do ten. Oh, Jim, I bet he'd do half a million to a Super Pacific. And then DCCC is like, okay, like, you're our man because you can do our job for us. You can go out and raise the money. Somebody who can't do that, which is 99% of people, has the challenge that you had at the beginning. So how did you overcome that? Like, how do you go from, all right, I am going to run for Senate statewide. I don't have a lot of rich friends, but I'm gonna be taken seriously because that happened. How do you break through that?

[Dan Osborne]

Yeah, that's funny. I did the exact same thing. I went through my phone and my contacts, and it's full of other mechanics and working class people. So I was able to get 25, 50 bucks here. And we had a lot of early angel investors that just believed that, similar to myself, that just believed that this could turn into something. There was a lot of local people that threw in $1,000 here and $1,000 there. And it really wasn't until we found a great digital firm that small dollar started to pour in. And that remained the basis of our campaign. We raised close to $14 million, and our average donation was, I think, like $40 at the end of everything. So the small dollars are extremely important and just being able to get that message out. And that's how we were able to do it.

[Advertiser 2]

Well, Dan, what are your plans for what's next? Are you going to run for office again?

[Dan Osborne]

I would say there's a 99% chance that I'm going to find something to run for again. We're keeping all the options open. You know, Pete Ricketts seats up here in Nebraska. There's a couple other ones we're eyeballing. But, yeah, I think we got a lot of momentum. We spent a tremendous amount of work work getting name recognition and just getting our message out there, our core message that, you know, we didn't take any corporate dollars. We don't want to be a part of the problem, we want to be a part of the solution and really just represent people, you know, the way the framers of the Constitution intended it, to be a government buy and for the people. So that, that was our intention. We fell a little bit short, but I think, I think in 2026 we're going to turn that around.

[Advertiser 2]

All right, well, we look forward to seeing it. We hope to see you again on the show, should that time come again. All right, so thank you very much, sir. We appreciate you.

[Dan Osborne]

Thanks, guys. Appreciate it.

[Advertiser 2]

Absolutely.

[Independent Media Host 2]

All right, that was Dan Osborne. His new fund is Working Class Heroes Fund and you can find it at workingclassheroes Fund. Even if you just go on there and put your email in there, then you'll get updates when he's got somebody cool. So you don't want to give him money now because you don't know who he's going to recruit. Fine, put your email in there and then he'll tell you when he's got somebody cool.

[Advertiser 2]

He's a very fascinating figure to me. Imagine if a guy like him won governor or Senate from the state of New Jersey. That would scramble everything instantly.

[Independent Media Host 2]

A presidential candidate, in my opinion, he.

[Advertiser 2]

Would actually have a better shot going a good governor. Because this is interesting that the voters seem to actually distinguish.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Yes.

[Advertiser 2]

So like for example, in Maryland, this.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Is a key point.

[Advertiser 2]

Yeah, this just happened in Maryland. Larry Hogan, he was the governor of Maryland, he's a Republican, he was pretty popular, but he just got his ass kicked in Senate.

[Independent Media Host 2]

You notice on that chart that we just showed the Maryland Senate candidate was the greatest underperformer.

[Advertiser 2]

Yes, that's right. No. So I'm not saying he didn't do well, but just no chance he lost. And the reason why is even people who liked him in Maryland were like, yeah, I like you Hogan, but you would be a vote for Mitch McConnell. And I don't like that.

[Independent Media Host 2]

The ads Democrats ran against him were all people saying, I like him.

[Advertiser 2]

There you go.

[Independent Media Host 2]

But he's gonna vote for Mr. McDonald.

[Advertiser 2]

Exactly. So you have a better chance of not running nationally. That's why you have these guys. Who's that guy who's the Republican in Vermont? What's his name? Welch?

[Independent Media Host 2]

No, he was the governor while I was there.

[Advertiser 2]

Yeah, he was the governor of Vermont. I forgot his name. People loved him and his Vermont. These are like blue haired liberals in Burlington. They still elected him because he's like a unique guy.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Or he was working class dude who was the Massachusetts, he was like a motorcycle mechanic. Or something.

[Advertiser 2]

Who am I thinking of? The Republican who governed Massachusetts. Charlie Baker. Is that his name?

[Independent Media Host 2]

Well, they liked Scott Brown that one time.

[Advertiser 2]

Yeah. They elected Scott Brown. I mean, that was a crazy circumstance. But my point is that I think you have a better shot at being governor. And then actually Louisiana had a Democrat. Yeah, Louisiana, John Bel Edwards, I think that was.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Kansas elects Democrats, is gone.

[Advertiser 2]

Kansas elects governor. So statewide you have a better chance of running for a non national seat. And voters are much more willing to give you a little bit of leeway. Also, if I were him, that's what I would do.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Democrats in Maryland are like, we want to be Democratic nationally, but this guy says we're gonna have low taxes in Maryland.

[Advertiser 2]

Yeah, exactly.

[Independent Media Host 2]

All right, I'll vote for that.

[Advertiser 2]

They're like, okay, well, you know, and now they have Wes Moore, who's gonna bring alcohol to everybody in the state.

[Independent Media Host 2]

In the grocery stores.

[Advertiser 2]

It's just. That's exactly what Maryland needed. Anyone who's ever encountered a Maryland driver says, you know what they need? More excess alcohol. That's what they need in that state. Okay. All right, good luck. Good luck to all of you. We had a great show for everybody today. Thank you all. Ryan, it's always great to see you.

[Independent Media Host 2]

Great to see you too.

[Advertiser 2]

And if anything breaks over the weekend, we'll be with you otherw guys. We'll see you on Monday.

[Host 1]

All right, we're all set for the party. I've trimmed the tree, hung the mistletoe, and paired all those weird shaped knives and forks with the appropriate cheeses. And I plugged in the Bartesian Bartesian. It's a home cocktail maker that makes over 60 premium cocktails. Plus a whole lot of seasonal favorites too. I just got it for 50 off. So how about a Cosmopolitan or a Mistletoe margarita?

[Host 2]

I'm thirsty.

[Host 1]

Watch. I just pop in a capsule, choose my strength, and wow, it's beginning to.

[Host 2]

Feel more seasonal in here already.

[Host 1]

If your holiday party doesn't have a bartender, then you become the bartender. Unless you've got a Bartesian, because Bartesian crafts every cocktail perfectly in as little as 30 seconds. And I just got it for $50 off.

[Host 2]

Tis the season to be jolly.

[Advertiser 1]

Er add some holiday flavor to every celebration with the sleek, sophisticated home cocktail maker Bartesian. Get $50 off any cocktail maker at bartesian.com cocktail that's B A R T E S I A N dot com.

[Advertiser 3]

Cocktail gifting is hard, but here's a hint. Give the gift of connection from US Cellular. Not sure what that means. Here's a slightly more specific hint. You can choose four free phones and get four lines for $90 a month from US Cellular. Your family wants new phones? How do we know? They told us. The good news is that compared to wrapping presents, you're great at getting hints. So take the hint and get them four free phones and four lines for $90 a month. US Cellular built for US the holidays.

[Savannah Guthrie]

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