12/12/25: Trump SHOOK After Indiana Loss, Beef Price Fixing EXPOSED, Iranians BRACE for New Attacks

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar

Episode: 12/12/25 – Trump SHOOK After Indiana Loss, Beef Price Fixing EXPOSED, Iranians BRACE for New Attacks

Date: December 12, 2025
Hosts: Krystal Ball, Saagar Enjeti (absent), Ryan Grim, Emily Jashinsky, Griffin Davis
Guests: Brock Rehore (The Lever), Hind Hassan (Al Jazeera)

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Episode Overview

This episode takes on a jam-packed agenda with an anti-establishment tone as the team dissects major political and economic headlines:

• Trump’s failed redistricting effort in Indiana and what it says about his waning grip on the Republican Party.
• An exposé on beef price fixing, exploring how industry collusion and algorithms may be driving up burger prices.
• Reporting from Iran, as the country picks up the pieces after Israel’s unprecedented 12-day bombing campaign, with civilians fearing another attack. The episode includes in-depth interviews with investigative journalist Brock Rehore and documentary filmmaker Hind Hassan. Throughout, the hosts bring their signature mix of sharp analysis, bemused commentary, and political skepticism.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Trump’s Setback in Indiana: Redistricting Blow and Weakening Party Control

[04:30–21:53]

What Happened?

• Trump pushed aggressively for red states such as Indiana to gerrymander congressional districts even more, aiming for a complete Republican sweep.
• Despite threats (including pulling federal funding and orchestrated grassroots pressure), the Indiana Senate (dominated by Republicans) rejected Trump’s map outright.
• This signals a sharp crack in Trump’s influence over the party machinery at the state level—especially notable in a deep-red, traditionally obedient state.

Key Analysis

• Krystal Ball: Highlights how Trump’s tactics included “individual threats, swatting, and pizza sent to lawmakers’ houses”—a full-bore pressure campaign. But traditional conservative and local interests pushed back, unwilling to let national figures dictate politics.
  “There’s a natural human reaction of like, ‘Don’t tread on me… who are you to tell us how to operate in our state?’” [06:58]

• Emily Jashinsky: Emphasizes that state lawmakers bristled at a federal, bullying approach—especially from Trump.
  “The worst way to try to get them to do something is to be a federal government national pressure campaign ... it makes them look terrible to their constituents ... and they hate it so much.” [08:01]

• Ryan Grim: Notes that Trump is suffering these setbacks with no external crisis to blame, making the moment even more “artificial and self-inflicted.”
  “He has done this to himself. There’s no external pressure driving his approval rating into the ground.” [15:32]

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “Trump getting told no by state senators. Brutal.” – Ryan Grim [16:39]
• “Wasn’t really that big a deal. Didn’t really try that hard. That’s the cope.” – Emily Jashinsky on Trump’s efforts to save face [07:55]
• “His overall approval on the economy is now 31%. 31%. That’s going to be a disaster for any president, but this president in particular.” – Crystal Ball [17:46–18:10]

Timestamps for the Segment

• Trump’s failed strategy & Indiana GOP culture clash: [04:30–09:54]
• Trump’s current standing, approval ratings, and “self-inflicted wounds”: [14:16–18:10]
• Polls showing voters prioritize the economy, not immigration or foreign adventures: [21:53]

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2. Beef Price-Fixing Exposé: Why Your Burger Costs $20

[32:01–52:19] | Guest: Brock Rehore, The Lever

Core Story

• Brock Rehore details a sustained, largely hidden pattern of price fixing in America’s meat and poultry industry.
• At the heart: a company called Agristats, which aggregates and shares sensitive industry information, allegedly helping meat processors collude on both pricing and wage suppression through “algorithmic price fixing.”
• Recent lawsuits and settlements haven’t changed the incentives—settlements cost less than profits, and the mechanisms for collusion mostly remain intact.

How It Works

• By sharing detailed production, wage, and price data through Agristats, major companies (e.g., Tyson) can collectively restrict supply and inflate prices, even in the era of digital “smokescreen” collusion.
• Consumers face higher prices, while ranchers get squeezed out, unable to profitably maintain herds.
• A recent example: Tyson’s plant closure in Nebraska (15% of state’s beef processing, 5% nationally) devastates local economies while decreasing supply, thus driving prices further up.

Key Analysis by Hosts

• Crystal Ball:
  “For so many Americans now, the prices are just so out of control that [steak] is just not even remotely a possibility...who is screwing you over?” [49:29]

• Ryan Grim: On Republican candidate Pete Ricketts treating the Tyson closure like a “natural disaster”:
  “Amazing. Like a natural disaster. Yeah, exactly. An act of God because he sees these CEOs as gods and so the acting together, they've brought about a natural disaster on this town.” [41:59]

• Brock Rehore:
  “The settlement isn’t actually going to change anything substantive in the industry...It’s perfectly rational for these companies...to continue price fixing.” [32:53–36:32]

Notable Quotes

• “There’s something incredibly undignified about paying like $16–17 for a McDonald’s combo.” – Griffin Davis [51:04]
• “It is such a salient issue on both sides of the aisle.” – Brock Rehore on rural anger [44:34]

Timestamps for the Segment

• How Agristats enables meat industry collusion: [32:53–39:42]
• The Nebraska Tyson plant closure and rural impacts: [41:11–44:31]
• Broader political implications—anger is bipartisan, Trump cashes in with rhetoric but not action: [44:31–47:49]

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3. Aftermath in Iran: Survivors Cope, Bracing for New Attacks

[52:57–75:45] | Guest: Hind Hassan, Al Jazeera

What Happened?

• Hind Hassan reports on the devastating human toll of the June 2025 Israeli military campaign against Iran (“Operation Rising Lion”), with the US joining in airstrikes.
• Hundreds of civilians killed, including children; residential neighborhoods and nuclear sites targeted; trauma and fear remain.

Key Findings and Journalism Mechanics

• The reporting brings home the civilian cost: mothers grieving, children lost, widespread destruction.
• “In Iran’s largest cemetery, mothers cry out for children who will never answer...The US backed Israel’s war, joining the offensive on the 10th day by striking Iran’s nuclear sites with some of the biggest bombs in the world.” – Documentary narration [53:48–54:50]
• Hassan and her team—hardened by previous reporting in war zones—were especially moved, as were their local Iranian partners, by the grief and trauma experienced by ordinary people.
• Coverage included victims’ families, bomb sites, and even a rare interviews inside government facilities—including an Iranian prison hit during the bombing.

On Access and Reporting Challenges

• Access to Iran and key sites is time-consuming and difficult. Some families are reluctant to trust foreign media, fearing their stories will be misrepresented.
• Yet many ultimately open up. “We had some who said, ‘I don’t know that telling my story will change anything,’—but also an urge to have the reality shown.” [62:21]

How Iranians Feel Now

• Hassan:
  “Talking to people ... it was like a psychological defense; they don't want to accept that [another attack] is happening again... [Their hope is] diplomatic solution, not further bloodshed.” [71:17]

• Across the political divide, Iranians are now more united than divided, with nearly everyone opposing the outside attack—even regime critics.

• On daily life and personal freedoms after the crackdown and war:
  “In Tehran, most of the women either wore the hijab loosely, wore it around the neck, or didn’t wear it at all... a woman was walking in a crop top.” [67:25]

• Hassan notes that the crackdown after protests and now the war led to an easing of previously strict social rules.

Notable Quotes

• “Regardless of what people think in terms of politics and ideology, the victims of war are always the most vulnerable in society... always the children.” – Hind Hassan [56:14]
• “That illusion [that big companies would protect small communities] has been completely destroyed at this point.” – Crystal Ball (echoing views on meatpacking, also applicable to geopolitics) [47:49]

Timestamps for the Segment

• Hind Hassan sets the stage, plays doc clip: [52:57–54:50]
• Emotional toll & team reactions: [55:10–58:09]
• Access and trust-building in Iran: [61:50–66:50]
• Interviews about daily life, social changes, and unifying effects of attack: [66:50–70:16]
• Iranians’ mindset about potential future conflicts: [70:16–74:38]

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps and Attribution)

• “There’s a natural human reaction of like, ‘Don’t tread on me… who are you to tell us how to operate in our state?’” – Krystal Ball [06:58]
• “The worst way to try to get them to do something is to be a federal government national pressure campaign...it makes them look terrible to their constituents...and they hate it so much.” – Emily Jashinsky [08:01]
• “He has done this to himself. There’s no external pressure driving his approval rating into the ground.” – Ryan Grim [15:32]
• “His overall approval on the economy is now 31%. 31%. That’s going to be a disaster for any president, but this president in particular.” – Krystal Ball [17:46]
• “There's something incredibly undignified about paying like 16, $17 for a McDonald's combo.” – Griffin Davis [51:04]
• “The settlement isn’t actually going to change anything substantive in the industry...It’s perfectly rational for these companies...to continue price fixing.” – Brock Rehore [36:32]
• “Regardless of what people think in terms of politics and ideology, the victims of war are always the most vulnerable in society... always the children.” – Hind Hassan [56:14]

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Flow and Tone

The conversation is brisk, irreverent, deeply anti-corporate, and anti-establishment in trademark Breaking Points style. The hosts share laughter and dark humor, but the underlying focus is squarely on holding power (political or corporate) to account. Whether lampooning Trump's “vibe checks” or getting emotional with Hind Hassan about Iranian war casualties, the show remains accessible and deeply engaged with the real-world impacts of elite decision making.

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Additional Segments and Miscellanea

• Hints of future interviews (e.g., Brock Rehore’s continued investigative journalism, Hind Hassan’s work on prisons in Brazil).
• Brief allusions to AI, Disney characters in Sora AI, and Time Person of the Year (not covered deeply in the main sections).
• Marijuana news: Brief mention of weed being rescheduled, access to banking for dispensaries, and possible market corruption angles. [76:00]

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Conclusion

This episode is essential listening for anyone trying to make sense of America’s fracturing political coalitions, the real reason food costs are spiking, or the fearful mood in Iran after the US-Israeli bombing campaign. It is a vivid, detailed survey of power, profit, and pushback, delivered with intelligence and wit—whether you care about gerrymandering, the price of burgers, or the cost of war.

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Transcript

[Crystal Ball]

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[Ryan Grim]

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[Crystal Ball]

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[Emily Jashinsky]

Hey guys.

[Crystal Ball]

Sagar and Crystal here. Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of the show.

[Brock Rehore]

This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.

[Crystal Ball]

So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad, free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

[Emily Jashinsky]

We need your help to build the.

[Ryan Grim]

Future of independent news media and we hope to see [e-mail] Good morning, everyone.

[Griffin Davis]

Friday, December 12 how's everybody doing?

[Crystal Ball]

So far so good. Got a big gymnastics meet for my youngest today, so nerves are running high in our household.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Huge.

[Ryan Grim]

Good luck.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah, she. Yeah, she. I'm kind of annoyed because, I mean, she's eight years old, right? She's not at like a super high. She. She's a good competitor and she's on the team. She's not like a super high level of the sport and we have to take off school for the meet. Like that's kind of crazy to me. But whatever, here we are, right?

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah, that is crazy.

[Crystal Ball]

A bunch of these girls that do gymnastics, really, seriously, they'll, they are homeschooled just so they can like train enough for the sport. I don't know. I mean, you guys know I was like high level athlete and that still is insane to me. But anyway, so good luck to Ida today.

[Griffin Davis]

Good luck to everyone being homeschooled. Everyone being homeschooled. Good luck to you as well. Big show, big show today. We got double guest here in the first hour. First up, our guest, we've got Barack from the lever who's talking to us about meat burgers. Why your Five Guys Burger is $100 every time you go in and buy it the meat market. And then Ryan, who's our next guest.

[Ryan Grim]

After that we'll have Hind Hassan. She wrote a piece for Dropsite yesterday about a documentary that she helped produce with Al Jazeera where she, she traveled to Iran to talk to people who had been, who were basically Survivors of the 12 Day Israeli War there, interviewed the foreign minister on camera, which is, which is, which is quite rare. More than a thousand people were killed. And she'll talk about what the after effects have been and how likely people there think another attack is to come. And that's the spoiler quite high.

[Crystal Ball]

Really interesting.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah.

[Griffin Davis]

We also have more, we have the time person of the year has been anointed. We're really excited to celebrate them. And we also have some Disney characters moving into Sora AI. But first, Crystal, why don't you start us with this map from Indiana?

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah. So you know, Trump has been pushing for a bunch of red states to redistrict and make their maps more aggressively gerrymandered so that Republicans can pick up seats as they're not feeling super great about just like, I don't know, appealing to voters. So they're trying to do as much as they can to mess with the maps in order to give them a more favorable landscape. And Texas went along with it sort of immediately. Then California retaliates that sort of like a wash. And they've been making this big push with Indiana in particular. You've had, I think J.D. vance went to the state, they've been lobbying these people and then they outright resorted to threatening the entire state if the Republicans there, it's, you know, very Republican dominated state, don't go along with their plans for this redistricting. And so Yesterday, the redistricting plan, after all of these threats, were going to pull all of your federal funding. These lawmakers are getting individual threats and swatted and, you know, pizza sent to their house and the whole bit. So full pressure campaign from the grassroots all the way up to the President. The Senate Republicans in Indiana and the Indiana Senate soundly rejected this new, more partisan gerrymandered map. So there's a lot of interesting dynamics. Emily, be probably better positioned than me to speak to. But I mean, Indiana, obviously this is the home of Mike Pence. Mitch Daniels has figured in the rhetoric here. There's sort of like an old line state, like more standard traditional conservative Republican that still has a lot of sway in the state of Indiana. And then you also have just, you know, when you redraw these maps, there are going to be incumbents, even Republican incumbents who are kind of on the losing end of that. Like they may be redistricted in with another Republican incumbent. Their district may go from being like super duper safe to like pretty safe. But it's about to be a really landslide, bad Democratic year. And you know, if you're in one of these districts that they're being most aggressive with, you may not be super excited about it. And then I think there's also just a natural human reaction of like, don't tread on me reaction, like, who are you to tell us the way that we need to operate in our state? So Emily, what did you, you know, what are some of the dynamics that you thought were important here? And then, I mean, the last thing I'll throw around is like, this is also a moment of extraordinary weakness for Trump in terms of the, you know, the, the long breadth of his political career. I think you'd have to look Back to post January 6th to see a moment when his sort of hold and dominance of the party is as weak as it is right now. You've got, I mean, the republic, the like right wing influencers are just like ripping each other to shreds. Marjorie Taylor Greene is out there doing her thing. You have some chunk of the base that is unhappy with everything from foreign policy to the lack of focus on domestic issues. And you also have just. This man is basically a lame duck at this point. You know, you had took a massive electoral loss in the off year elections. And so there also is a little bit of like, okay, we're realizing that Trump is not going to be the guy here for the party forever.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah, I think there's a really interesting counterfactual as to whether this would have happened in Trump's first administration. If we were, you know, 10 months into Trump's first administration, would the Indiana Republicans have listened to them? So Trump is right now saying the cope here is that he didn't really try that hard. It wasn't really that big of a deal. He wasn't paying that close attention to it.

[Ryan Grim]

I really want this.

[Crystal Ball]

Really?

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah, yeah, that's the. That's the cope.

[Crystal Ball]

I mean, what's your stupid map anyway?

[Ryan Grim]

It was Andre Carson's. Great. I love Andre Carson. The great Andre.

[Emily Jashinsky]

The line is, I think they're saying it just. It would have just been gravy. I think that's what Playbook had this morning. It would have just been gravy. Maybe. But, you know, if you've covered state lawmakers ever in particular, you know, like, the worst way, the worst way to try to get them to do something is to be like a federal government national pressure campaign and to try to tell them, like, we're bullying you around that, first of all, it makes them look terrible to their constituents, even if they're conservative. And second of all, they hate it so much because they already feel kind of looked down upon as state lawmakers. So if you're trying to do a pressure campaign, nationalizing it and turning it into, like this Roy Cohn rigmarole, which is totally how Trump was doing that, it completely backfired, and the reporting actually suggests that. But I think also if you just look at it, if you look at what the state lawmakers are saying, one of the pro Trump state lawmakers was saying that, yes, they did threaten federal funds. Because that was sort of in the Lieutenant governor, right?

[Crystal Ball]

The governor indicated that. Yeah.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And whether or not it actually happened, the White House is also being cagey about that. This is. They're now like, outright saying, yeah, no, that was on the table. The federal funding was on the table. So it does look like a very significant setback in terms of, like, the future of Trumpism. I don't know how that counterfactual shakes out in Trump 1.0 if this would have happened, because either way, it seemed like it was just the clumsiest push to try and push back against Gavin Newsom. So Newsom gets. Is redistricting okay? We're going to do it in Indiana, Deep red state. It's coming. We can play your game, too. And that was clumsily done from beginning to end.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. And nine, nine zero, I think, also feels just wrong to people like Maryland is going to try to do it to Try to completely blank out Republicans. And there's just something, I think, where you're like, wait, zero. Like, you know, because I just looked it up. Trump won 59 to 40, basically, in Indiana. But that's. You still have 40% of the state is Democratic. Like, to have zero is a little crazy. But Crystal's point, I think is key, that, like, so if you, if, if on average they won by 19, that means if you drew it out perfectly and you split Indianapolis up into these four districts, which is what they were trying to do, plus, then the, the, the district up by Michigan or by Lake Michigan, you then, if you did it absolutely perfectly, everybody would be a plus 19, you know, relative to 2024. But with people angry about the redistricting, angry about the economy, and angry at Trump and watching Nashville, the Nashville race, which was plus 22, be too close for comfort. You've got then nine candidates who were like, okay, it's plus 19. And in a normal year, I would cruise. But, ugh, I am not feeling super good about this plus 19. So I think they'd rather. I think those seven guys would rather just be comfortable, like, they have no chance of losing, rather than nine people who have some tiny chance of losing. This is also. Well, two. Two hilarious things here. One, Indiana might lose federal funding before New York City, which is absolutely the.

[Crystal Ball]

Magic of Mom Donnie, can you believe that?

[Ryan Grim]

If I'm Mom Donnie, I'm on the phone now, like, hey, if you're not spending that money in Indiana, like, we will call them. The Trump bus lines.

[Crystal Ball]

Just Trump childcare.

[Emily Jashinsky]

But clearly they don't want to own. Clearly they don't even want to own that they pushed that hard. So they're not going to take the money from Indiana because then it would look like they cared about Indiana.

[Ryan Grim]

Just, just quietly take the money just. And make Indiana just keep calling like, hey, the money's not here yet. Where's the money? Where's the money? Oh, it's coming. Don't worry about it.

[Crystal Ball]

Look, we'll get back to you. Sorry, voicemail.

[Ryan Grim]

The other point is they, they went after so far. So far, they've had setbacks in, what, Ohio, Utah, Kansas, and. And they're struggling in Missouri. So they were looking to, like, run the table on a whole bunch of seats here. And they're, They're. And Florida's not going to go till next year.

[Crystal Ball]

Well, in Florida, there are some issues there because they actually have, in their state constitution, provisions against partisan gerrymanders. So they actually have some of the more sort of stringent laws on the books, apparently about partisan jury. So they have to deal with that and. Yeah. And potential court challenges there. And then you mentioned so effectively. So Gavin does his redistricting. Texas does their redistricting. The courts have now said Texas's map is okay, even though there was question about that. Those are effectively a wash. Right. It's, I think it's five in California for the Dems, five in Texas for the Republicans. Assuming that's another one. I don't know the details, but that's another map I might be a little nervous about given how hard Latinos are swinging against Trump.

[Griffin Davis]

Right.

[Crystal Ball]

So, you know, I'm not sure that everybody there should be super comfortable about the way they drew their map, assuming this new Republican coalition that may have only been, you know, kind of flash in the pan, you know, for Trump specifically, kind of a deal. Anyway, putting that aside, Democrats in Virginia are looking at a gerrymander. Maryland, as you said, Ryan. And again, there are some like Democratic resistance in Maryland. Not everybody is on board. The governor is on board for sure. So anyway, none of that is guaranteed. And then, yeah, Florida is a place where that would be a big prize for Republicans. There's a lot of seats they could gain there. I don't remember exactly the number, but that's also one where they have the state law issue that they're going to have to contend with. So I don't know right now it's pretty up for grabs. Who's going to ultimately win out in the redistricting wars? Bannon gave a quote to Politico saying like Republicans are in deep trouble because he feels like they need to net at least 10 or so seats to have a, even a prayer at holding onto the House in the midterms. And currently they're not really on track to be able to achieve that.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And what kind of. Oh, go ahead, Ryan.

[Ryan Grim]

What's so remarkable about. By the way. And it's, and this came into relief, I was talking to my daughter last night when she was asking me who before Trump in the modern era was like the most unpopular president ever. And I said it was probably, well, it's probably Bush. And she asked like, why. And I told her, you know, well, he tried to kill Social Security and that and that blew up in his face. Then the Iraq war was going really badly and then there was this, this flood and this hurricane in New Orleans that, and so all these things were going terribly for him. And it, and it made me realize again, something that I'd forgotten that Trump hasn't had anything bad happen to him, which is, it's, it's been a remarkably like, kind of lucky run of, of his first year. There haven't been any like, signif. You know, obviously there have been like, some small crises here and there, but there's been no financial crisis. There's been no disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan.

[Crystal Ball]

There's been no pandemic.

[Ryan Grim]

There's been no pandemic. There's been no earthquake. There's been no. The hurricane season was the lightest event. There haven't been a, you know, fires are not breaking out everywhere. Like, things are going pretty calmly around the, around the country and around the world.

[Griffin Davis]

There's an Epstein shaped hole in that recount, though. That's all.

[Ryan Grim]

This is all artificial stuff. Like, so, so he has done this to himself. There's no, there's no external pressure that is driving his approval rating into the ground, is my point.

[Crystal Ball]

It's all, it's all him. It's all him.

[Ryan Grim]

There's gonna be something like, there's no way he goes four years without external disasters hitting him. So to go into those disasters at 30% is uncharted territory.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Emily Jashinsky]

So I searched Trump's true social account. There's some Twitter accounts that repost his true socials. Here is him not really caring that much about Indiana. This is back on November 25th.

[Ryan Grim]

He says, I'm not gonna read all that, buddy. It looks care.

[Emily Jashinsky]

It says. Yeah, it's a little acmany. It's giving Ackman a very important initiative. A very important initiative. This is like, if you're listening to us, this is like, probably 150, 200 words. He says all kinds of stuff. That's just one post. I'm, I'm sure there are more, but yes, it's. He didn't really care that much at all. Didn't really. There's another one.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, yeah, they lost her. They had straight up lost Republicans in the Indiana Senate. Like, even if Democrats had not been able to vote, they lost a majority among Republicans. Trump getting told no by state senators. Brutal. There was actual violence done to these people too. We shouldn't forget that. Like, not just threats of violence against them, there were some, like, actual, like, acts of, like, violence done toward them to try to pressure them to, to implement this map. And they told this guy, no, this is.

[Crystal Ball]

But it wasn't that important to anyone. It was only so important that he riled up his base into like, threats and, and violence against lawmakers to get them to, to fold to his desires. But wasn't really that big a deal.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Keep the majority at all costs. Republicans must fight back. I'll be strongly endorsing any state senator, House member from the great state of Indiana that votes against the Republican Party and our nation by not allowing for redistricting like this is. If this is not trying too hard. I wonder what it would look like if he was, if he had really gone all out.

[Hind Hassan]

Yeah.

[Crystal Ball]

Should we take a look? Can you pull up, Griffin, this Trump approval rating, because this speaks to what Ryan was just mentioning about where he is. Because I mean, it. Look, I'm all the polls are going to be slightly different, but pretty much everybody has an overall downward trajectory here. And this is specifically on immigration, which, you know, immigration, crime. We're seen as his two strongest issues. I think they still are his strongest issues. But even there you are, you were seeing a dramatic decline. And he's underwater on both of the issues where he's supposed to be, you know, alleged allegedly the strongest. And there was a lot here in terms of just how far he has fallen. And the biggest area that's a major issue for him is the economy. His overall approval on the economy is now 31%. 31%. And that's going to be a disaster for any president. But this president in particular, you know, his whole thing is his brand, right? That's what he's best at. He's best at creating this mythology around him and creating this brand image. And for a long, long, long, long time, up until literally this year, his brand was, I'm the businessman, I understand the economy. I'm going to make you, your, you and your family better off. And now that brand is completely toast. And to, to Ryan's point, I mean, to, you know, the whole, the whole concept of they're, they're blaming, trying to blame Biden, but not only are you a year into your administration, but you were so aggressive in all of the moves that you made on the economy. Like the idea that this is Biden's economy at this point after Post Liberation Day is absurd to people. Right? Even a lot of Republicans are like, no, it's not. Biden's like, we are where we are. And then the attempt to gaslight everybody and say, no, the economy's a plus plus, plus, plus. But also if there's problems, it's Biden's economy. You know, on something like the economy, like you have your own independent experience of this. He cannot work, work his reality creation distortion mechanisms nearly as effectively in that area as perhaps he can in some others.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And let's just take a look before we, like, leave. Let's take a look at this just.

[Crystal Ball]

A few moments ago.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Trump in the Oval Office last night.

[Crystal Ball]

Rejected the congressional maps to redistrict in that state. A number of Republicans voted against that redistricting effort. You have spent a lot of time talking about this. The vice president traveled to Indiana.

[Hind Hassan]

What's your reaction?

[Ryan Grim]

Well, we won every other state. That's the only state.

[Griffin Davis]

It's funny because I, one day, I.

[Ryan Grim]

Won Indiana all three times by a landslide, and I wasn't working on it very hard.

[Crystal Ball]

It would have been nice.

[Griffin Davis]

I think we would have picked up.

[Ryan Grim]

Two receipts if we did that.

[Griffin Davis]

You had one gentleman, the head of.

[Ryan Grim]

The Senate, I guess, Ray whatever his name is. I heard he was against it. He'd probably lose his next primary, whatever that is. I hope he does, because he's done a tremendous disservice. But think of it. It's a great place.

[Griffin Davis]

I love the people there.

[Ryan Grim]

They love me. We won in a landslide all three times. Tremendous votes.

[Griffin Davis]

And then you.

[Ryan Grim]

There's no reason for doing it.

[Emily Jashinsky]

It's a nice time.

[Ryan Grim]

Democrats do it to us, so I.

[Griffin Davis]

Can'T imagine that they do it, but.

[Crystal Ball]

It'S different than us.

[Ryan Grim]

But there's a man named Bray as a, I guess, head of the Senate.

[Griffin Davis]

Was that Bray?

[Ryan Grim]

Is that the name Bray?

[Griffin Davis]

And, I mean, he'll.

[Ryan Grim]

I, I'm sure that whenever his primary is, it's, I think in two years, but I'm sure he'll go down.

[Emily Jashinsky]

All right, so it's not that we weren't working very hard on it, but it was, quote, a tremendous disservice. And this, to Crystal's point, is the branding challenge of Trump going forward. The economy is an A, but consumer sentiments are at record lows. There's a lot to. Not record lows, probably, but pretty low. So there's a lot for the branding master to maneuver here going forward.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah, and I was just looking at another poll that just came out in terms of, like, people's, you know, what people are prioritizing. No surprise. Majority people say either prices and inflation or jobs in the economy. Only 3% are saying border security, 9% are saying crime and public safety, 7% are saying immigration. So, you know, and this is where Venezuela factors into this as well, where the vast majority of the public, I think, like, 70% of the public are like, no, I don't want to do regime change in Venezuela. What are we doing here? And it's not only the opposition to the action itself. It's also the sense of like, hey, we have some situations here that we feel like you should maybe be focused on rather than murdering random people in the Caribbean and doing another foolish foreign adventure. Regime change, war. You know, just ask Biden and Kamala Harris how it goes when people feel like you are more committed to war making than you are to their own lives and their material conditions. So, you know, I think that's, that's another, that's another factor that is playing in here that is probably not going to benefit them over the short or long term.

[Ryan Grim]

And he took another loss last night that is actually very relevant to this. House of Representatives, which is still Republican controlled, voted to reject Trump's executive order. On what? Artificial intelligence or. No, it was on rolling back. No, no, it was.

[Crystal Ball]

Sorry, it was on the labor rights. Is that one.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes, it was about the rolling back, the union protection. So Trump issued an executive order that was like hostile to organized labor and workers, and they voted to roll that back. And so, you know, a bunch of Republicans cross the aisle. Twenty, I think 20 Republicans, 19 who are facing, you know, tough reelection campaigns, and one who's retiring join Democrats to overturn this executive order. So, like, he's really, he's, he's losing his hold on the party in a way that you, as you said, is like reminiscent of just a few weeks after January 6th.

[Crystal Ball]

One more thing to throw in here before, before Brock joins us is according to Ms. Now don't know how amazing their sources are. And Marjorie Taylor Greene denies this, but sources tell msnow MTG has been gauging support for a motion to vacate a long shot bid to oust Speaker Johnson. Marjorie's approaching members to get to nine who will oust the speaker. And, you know, I mean, this is direct shot at Mike Johnson, not necessarily Trump, but like Mike Johnson is not his own independent person out there. He has been Trump's puppet doing whatever it is that Trump wants him to do in that slot. That's been his sole purpose and role. So, you know, the other thing I saw is she, she posted this herself. So this isn't something that she denied that she's going to. She's thinking about signing on to any discharge petition that comes up, even if it's something she disagrees with, because she's like, these things should get a vote on the floor. Like they should get a vote on the House floor. And if people disagree them, then vote against them. But what is it with this not being able to vote on Things and members not being able to express themselves. So I'm, I'm so for it. I'm just sad she's resigning in January. I want her to stick around.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah, I am too. But if she wants to do a motion to vacate, she can definitely find enough people to do it. It's like everyone is mad at Mike Johnson. The moderates are mad at Mike Johnson. MAGA is mad at Mike Johnson. He has a very thin margin, obviously. So the emotion of vacate, basically, Kevin McCarthy's entire conference was happy with him, except for, like, Matt and a posse of friends. And so because of where the margins are right now, you know, it's just a question of people care enough or the people.

[Griffin Davis]

Emily?

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah, the most likely.

[Emily Jashinsky]

I mean, you think the biggest.

[Griffin Davis]

Why are people so mad at Mike Johnson specifically? Like, has there been a key central failure that they're all pointing to?

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah, I mean, during the government shutdown, everyone was home in their districts and had lots of time on their hands and just was like, getting really, really mad at Mike John and felt like he wasn't prioritizing the, like, actual action type stuff. He hasn't been getting them to, like, do things and they feel kind of idle and frustrated. And so I think you would have, you'd have some, like, Freedom Caucus types, and then you would have like, Brian Fitzpatrick from Pennsylvania, kind of moderate type who's been speaking out against Mike Johnson. Now, would he actually vote in the discharge position? You probably, if she made a serious push. Some of these, you know, there's 20 people who are considering announcing their retirements, according to Jake Sherman. So what do they care?

[Ryan Grim]

They'll.

[Emily Jashinsky]

They'll do a motion to vacate if they want to, you know, make a point about Mike Johnson.

[Crystal Ball]

So I would think for the moderates, for anybody who's in a swing district too, they'd see it as an opportunity to, like, separate themselves from a party that's unpopular. You know, same function then in the past, like voting against Nancy Pelosi would have served. I don't know how far it gets you, though, because most people see that the problem is not really Mike Johnson. You know, outside of, like the, you know, insular Republican infighting, they see the problem as being Donald Trump and Mike Johnson is just there to, like, do his bidding. But I do think a lot of, you know, some people who are in districts that are vulnerable would probably feel like, oh, this is an opportunity for me to show that I'm not like the rest of these people. I'm my own person. I'm independent. I'm voting against the party in some key ways and use that to kind of try to bolster an independent brand.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah, I tried to get health care subsidies. Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah.

[Brock Rehore]

And they.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, right. They might get that next week. Right?

[Emily Jashinsky]

They might.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. That'd be. Do you think that has a chance of passage this, this deal that is coming together with House Republicans.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah. And this is the flip side of what we were talking about with Trump operating as a Roy Cohn style political figure, where sometimes the arm twisting is a disaster and it backfires because people take such umbrage with it, especially in politics, treating them like it's mafia time. And then on the other hand, sometimes it twists arms and Trump is able to like, sweet talk plus strong arm and gets it done. So I think he's really not used to it not working. I feel like that's what happened in Indiana.

[Crystal Ball]

What does the deal look like? Because I saw the Republican talking points and it was extremely vague.

[Ryan Grim]

Was it. What's a year extension? Yeah, of, of the, of the Obamacare subsidies.

[Brock Rehore]

Right.

[Ryan Grim]

Like through the election, basically.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Which would be. That'd be, that'd be huge for everybody who's staring at those bills right now.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah. Who's already gone through the marketplace and looks like premium spikes.

[Ryan Grim]

And then if Democrats take the House that, you know, they, they'd be in a position to defend them. Defend the subsidies in the next spending package.

[Griffin Davis]

What about these 2K tariff checks? I was promised a tariff check at some point, Emily. Still on the table.

[Ryan Grim]

They have, they have conceded that that was made up.

[Griffin Davis]

Oh, damn.

[Ryan Grim]

What they, what they meant is that the, the beauty of Trump's A plus plus plus economy and his, and his beautiful tax bill.

[Griffin Davis]

Feels like we all got a check.

[Ryan Grim]

It's going to feel like literally.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Suggested that it's actually branding. Yes.

[Crystal Ball]

It's $2,000 in vibes.

[Griffin Davis]

Your bank account is a mindset.

[Ryan Grim]

You just send a vibe check and sign it. That is literally a vibe check, like fine print. It says this is not, not redeemable for actual money.

[Crystal Ball]

Well, they, they would do that, but Doge fired the bureaucrats that might have been able to send down those checks. Sorry.

[Griffin Davis]

Exactly.

[Ryan Grim]

You're going to get a truth sen. A mass email.

[Brock Rehore]

Yeah.

[Crystal Ball]

You can get an AI slot video about it.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah.

[Crystal Ball]

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[Ryan Grim]

So you're telling me that the AI.

[Hind Hassan]

That'S meant to make everyone's job easier.

[Ryan Grim]

To manage just adds more to manage. On top of the thousands of apps the IT department already manages? Funny how that works. Any business can add AI. IBM helps you scale and manage AI to change how you do business.

[Hind Hassan]

Let's create Smile to Business.

[Ryan Grim]

IBM.

[Griffin Davis]

Military life isn't predictable, but earning your master's degree can be. With American Military University's 40 + flexible online master's programs, you can stay mission ready while you you get market ready. Learn anywhere, anytime. With an education built to keep pace steady, reliable, and always accessible. Plus, military service members, veterans and their families can save up to 45% on master's tuition with AMU's special rates and grants. Learn more at AMU Apus Edu. Steady through every mission. Well, I think we've got our guest Brock here from the lever. Let's let Brock in. Brock, what's going on, man?

[Brock Rehore]

Hey, folks. How's it going?

[Crystal Ball]

Good. Great to have you.

[Brock Rehore]

Yeah, thanks for having me on.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah, of course. So can you. Can you give us your last name? Pronunciation?

[Brock Rehore]

Yeah, yeah, sure. It's.

[Griffin Davis]

I was not gonna try Crystal. I wasn't gonna.

[Ryan Grim]

I was just totally fine.

[Crystal Ball]

Like Brett is a frog.

[Brock Rehore]

That's pretty close actually. Yeah, it's. It's Rehor. So it's a. It's a Czech last name. The H is silent. Yeah, it's been getting butchered since I was a kid. No worries. But. Yeah.

[Crystal Ball]

Excellent. Well, you're. You're just so iconic, you only need the first name.

[Emily Jashinsky]

That's it.

[Crystal Ball]

So.

[Griffin Davis]

That's right. And you wrote an iconic article here. We've got it up. The secret algorithm behind your $20 burger. According to multiple lawsuits, data analytic firm Agristats has quietly enabled the nation's largest meat processors to coordinate price hikes and wage suppression for decades. Tell us a little bit about this story, Brock.

[Brock Rehore]

Yeah, sure. So this started when I saw this. I saw a little bit of information come out about how there was this ongoing class action lawsuit and some of the country's biggest poultry processors had been colluding to suppress their workers wages. And so I write a little, you know, good newsletter for the Lever every week. And so this was one of the items that I was including on this. But when I started looking a little bit further, I saw this information about this company, Agrostats. I had seen that, you know, some places have done coverage of this firm before. I think Mother Jones, the American Prospect, a couple of sources have covered the technology more broadly, but nobody was really talking about this settlement. So in lieu of a financial settlement, Agristats agreed to redact some of the wage information in a way that you know, allegedly was like satisfactory for the plaintiffs, for the workers. But I wanted to look a little bit more into it. And when I started talking to industry insiders and legal experts, the overwhelming consensus seemed to be that well no, the settlement isn't actually going to change anything substantive in the industry. And it sort of follows a broader pattern which I think is pretty interesting. I spoke to this independent rancher, Mike Calicrate, who I think summed it up pretty well. I also talked to Claire Calloway of the Open Markets Institute and both of them kind of landed on the same general pattern that is going on with price fixing more broadly in the meatpacking industry. And it's sort of, you know, these companies are always able to settle and often what happens is the settlements that they pay out are less than they got in their ill gotten gains and a lot of the time they don't actually have to give those gains back. So, so it's perfectly rational for these companies, you know, just pursuing profit maximization. It's perfectly rational for them to continue price fixing. And what's happening is nothing's being done to change the underlying conditions that enabled price fixing in the first place. And that was sort of the broader takeaway that I came with this. But I also think it's pretty interesting because I think with everything going on with RealPage right now, algorithmic price fixing is sort of a hot button issue. It's a pretty, pretty salient political issue, especially with like New York and California trying to update their state antitrust laws to, to account for sort of algorithmic price fixing. But what's interesting is Agristats, it's been around for 40 years and the technology, I think I'm not going to attempt to explain the differences in the technology, but from what I was able to gather from people I spoke to, the technology works pretty differently. But it's the same idea of this third party intermediary used by companies to exchange sensitive information. And obviously again, I think I can't overstate this. This is a problem that exists beyond algorithms. It goes beyond third party intermediaries. This, the sort of standard smoke filled room price fixing is still definitely also going on a lot. But it was sort of interesting that Agristats, this firm in particular, wasn't really getting a lot of coverage and people weren't really talking about, well, like, well, what's going to happen after this settlement? Like, you know, they agreed to redact the information, but are they just going to be able to continue sort of existing and. Sorry, go ahead.

[Crystal Ball]

So effectively. No, I was just going to say so effectively you started writing this as like a piece of good news, like, oh look, there was this class action lawsuit and they forced a settlement. This will improve things. And then as you start to dig into it, you come to realize the settlement is actually a strategic tactic from the algorithmic price fixing company to make sure they don't have to admit any wrongdoing and they can just sort of like pay the fine and just consider that a cost of doing business. And it also did you just mentioned real page. It also did very much remind me of that story which we have covered extensively here as well, where effectively they thought that they could get around, you know, antitrust and anti competitive laws by doing it through a newfangled way. Like since we're doing the collusion through algorithms, it doesn't really count anymore. And the, you know, I'm sure that the mechanism is a little bit different here, but what you effectively point to, and again this is all alleged and they deny, blah blah, blah, but what you point to here is just like with the algorithmic rent price fixing, some of the information that landlords were able to glean was basically like, you know what, you'll actually be more profitable if you jack up the rent so high that it is beyond and above market prices. And you keep some units open so effectively, like reducing supply, you keep some units open because people just literally can't afford it. You will actually be more profitable that way. And in a similar way in the meat processing industry, what they've also realized is that by constraining supply and jacking up the price, they're going to be more profitable. So, you know, we've had, there's, there's a lot of factors that are going into both why the prices are so high, why the cattle herd right now is so low. There are various factors that go into it, but if you look at the overall structure of this market, the ranchers are getting screwed, right? Their margins. We've talked to Mike Calicrate as well. Amazing guy. Shout out to him, go check out Ranch Foods Direct. Ranchers are getting screwed, right? They're not making, they're not making much. If anything, they're underwater. So they're not building out the herds because they can't afford to because there's no margin in it for them. Consumers are getting screwed and companies like Tysons are racking up massive profit margins. So just from looking at that structure of the industry, you can see the way that this consolidation of power has allowed them to set the price and suck all of the sort of benefit out of the market to the detriment of the ranchers and to the detriment of the consumers. And you filled in with this article an important piece of the, the puzzle of how exactly they are colluding and working together allegedly to be able to effectuate that outcome.

[Brock Rehore]

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's definitely another thing that I, that at least the DOJ alleges is that these companies are, you know, agristats in the same way that you, that you pointed out with RealPage. It is getting these companies to artificially constrain. Excuse me, sorry. Artificially constrain supply. And I think that's a really important thing to focus on when we're talking about these.

[Ryan Grim]

To that point. Brock, why don't I play the Griffin? If you have it handy, go ahead and play it. But if not, I can pull it up. The Pete Ricketts response to Dana Osborne Here. I'll, I'll pull it up. We, this is, and I think Crystal's kind of alluding to this, that, you know, Tyson closed. So Tyson closed this processing plant. A couple of announced the closure of this processing plant in Lexington, Nebraska a couple weeks ago. And Dan Osborne, the independent Senate candidate, has been making the case that it's a violation of the packers and Stockyards act, which says that you cannot take action with the intent to or with the effect of manipulating the price. And what they're trying to do here, it appears, is both manipulate the price that they have to charge or that they have to pay to, to ranchers to get the cattle. Because, you know, if ranchers have fewer, you know, processing plants to sell to, then they can charge less for their cattle. And then if as they reduce the supply that they're producing, they can then charge more to the customers. And so Osborne has been saying the feds need to step in here and actually crack down on this criminal wrongdoing. And so Ricketts was asked about this and he's a billionaire who's running against this independent mechanic. And his answer is just so mealy mouthed. And I think it, it shows everything. So, yeah, so let's, let's go back to Ricketts.

[Griffin Davis]

Independent mechanic versus independent billionaire.

[Crystal Ball]

I think he inherited most of his money.

[Griffin Davis]

I've got my team taking a look at any allegation of wrongdoing with regard to how Tyson is going about this process. And of course what I have said in the past is that I've talked to other employers with regard to finding jobs for the people who are being displaced. I have talked to Donnie King, the Tyson CEO, about making sure that that facility can continue to be used for job creation and that I'm really treating this like a natural disaster, that it's locally executed, state managed and federally supported.

[Ryan Grim]

So we'll continue to.

[Crystal Ball]

Natural disaster.

[Griffin Davis]

And the local.

[Crystal Ball]

It's an act of God, really mitigate.

[Brock Rehore]

The issues associated with the shutdown.

[Ryan Grim]

Amazing. Like a natural disaster. Yeah, exactly. An act of God because He sees these CEOs as gods and so the acting together, they've brought about a natural disaster on this town. And he's gonna, he's hoping that they can continue using it for job creation. Like, what are you doing? Like, what are you talking about? Anyway, Brock, how does this fit into your reporting?

[Brock Rehore]

Yeah, sure. So I think like we were sort of alluding to a little bit earlier, I think the closure of this. Could you remind me of what percentage of the beef supply the closure of this market would.

[Ryan Grim]

So it's 15% of Nebraska's beef processing and it's 5% nationally. Like so, like 1 out of 20. And also like, I think we should acknowledge for the, like, this is just an awful industry and if we could like move away from it and move to something more humane and that would be better. However, this is what we've got.

[Brock Rehore]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

So one out of 20, one out of 20 cattle that get butchered. Get butchered at this processing plant.

[Brock Rehore]

Yeah. So I mean, like, I think again, this sort of follows the general trend. I mean this is both going to be obviously very detrimental to consumers, the people buying the beef. This is, that's a very substantial amount. But I think also it's important maybe to think about how propped up these rural towns become when a plant like Tyson moves in. I mean, when there's 3,000 or so workers in this plant, in a town of 10,000, the local economy becomes entirely reliant on this one plant.

[Emily Jashinsky]

They can build a data center and then do more of the AI computing at the data center.

[Brock Rehore]

All the jobs that will bring, right?

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yes, yeah, dozens.

[Crystal Ball]

Both of the jobs that will bring. Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes, yeah. And so it's fascinating to see the Republicans try to push back on this because the Republican billionaire is just, you know, his, he has, he has thoughts and prayers and that I don't think that's going to cut it for this town. And Odborne Osborne has been going in on this the last several weeks. Like it looks like he's going to run his entire campaign on this because it's such a perfect proxy for how we understand billionaires to be rigging the economy against regular people, both the workers and the consumers.

[Brock Rehore]

And I think it is, it is such. Sorry.

[Crystal Ball]

No, go ahead.

[Brock Rehore]

I think it is such a salient issue on both sides of the aisle. I mean, something that I sort of mentioned in my article was that, you know, maybe like a month or two ago, even the Trump administration has sort of tried, maybe it's more opportunism, but they've tried to kind of capitalize on how much anger there is around price fixing and in the meat industry specifically. I think Trump called out in a truth social post, again, he didn't name any names, but he called out foreign owned meatpacking companies. But again, I think, and a lot of the people I spoke to tends to be of the opinion that this is maybe more rhetoric than anything else. I think it's important to note that the Trump administration, they did accept, I think it was a $5 million donation from, from Pilgrim's Pride, which is a subsidiary of jbs, which is a Brazilian owned company. And shortly after that donation, again, there's, I don't want to like assume causation or anything, but shortly after that donation, jbs, this Brazilian company, was listed publicly on the New York Stock Exchange. But I do think it really speaks to, you know, regardless of, of where you are on the political spectrum, there's. These issues are, have carry a lot of political weight. And even just talking about them, it's. Yeah, it's on a lot of people's.

[Crystal Ball]

Minds right now decluttering is everything.

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[Ryan Grim]

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[Griffin Davis]

Military life isn't predictable, but earning your master's degree can be. With American Military University's 40 + flexible online master's programs, you can stay mission ready while you get market ready. Learn anywhere, anytime with an education built to keep pace, steady, reliable and always accessible. Plus, military service members, veterans and their families can save up to 45% on master's tuition with AMU's special rates and grants. Learn more at AMU Apus Edu Steady through every mission.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah, well, and Ricketts is not just, you know, a very one of the wealthiest members of Congress. He also has received according to Osborne, I haven't double checked it, but according to Dan Osborne, $70,000 in campaign contributions and support through hard soft money from Tysons directly. And I think there used to be a bit of a Republican base assumption that what was good for these companies was going to be good for them in these individual towns. And I saw, certainly saw this in West Virginia where they're, you know, from the antagonism of the mine wars, their shift into this like Friends of Coal campaign where the idea that is Actively pushed from chamber of commerce types and from Republican elites. And that bought into, in a lot of ways from the base voters themselves. Is that okay? If these companies do well and we like to support them and give them their tax cuts and let them do their thing, then that is going to be good for my town. They're not going to leave my town. They're not going to screw us over. This is what we've got to your point. Like, this is all we have in this town, so we better keep them happy. And I think that that illusion has been completely destroyed at this point. So, you know, for me, this issue, obviously it's visceral for people because one of the markers of whether you're making it or not is whether you can afford like a steak every now and again. And for so many Americans now, the prices are just so out of control that that is just not even remotely a possibility. That's completely off the table, both literally and figuratively at this point. So when you have some sort of insight into, okay, well why is that? Who is, what happened with this specific market? Like who is screwing you over? You know, I think people are very receptive and very open to the understanding that these giant companies are colluding allegedly in specific ways using now high tech. But it's the same, you know, same as getting in the smoke filled room and doing it that way. It's effectively the same mechanism just through like a tech smokescreen that that is a significant part of the puzzle of why it is that you're getting screwed.

[Ryan Grim]

In this particular way and on the electoral level. And then Brock, we can leave you with the last word. Pete Ricketts looks like the guy who's doing the colluding and the screwing. Like, you couldn't have a worse candidate. To me, if you're like, he looks like your CEO, he looks like the guy who's going to saunter through the plan plant, you know, with, with a like crisp hard hat for five minutes, walk out and then close your plant. Like he just looks like that guy. And so when he's like, I'm gonna do everything I can for these workers, you're like, are you, are you really not so sure?

[Emily Jashinsky]

It's like Danny Warbucks.

[Ryan Grim]

Anyway, any last thoughts?

[Brock Rehore]

Yeah, no, no, I think that pretty much does it. But thank you all so much for having me on it, really.

[Griffin Davis]

I, I, I actually do have a Brock, I have a, I have a McDonald's based question. Me and famously McDonald's eaters on the show, we love, we Love going to Mickey D's for a little fast food, but there is something incredibly undignified about paying like 16, $17 for a McDonald's combo. Is this kind of price fixing, like, affecting burger chains, like nationwide? Like, is this why it's so expensive at McDonald's these days?

[Brock Rehore]

I mean, I don't know if I want to necessarily say that that's a, the only factor that's at play. But from what is alleged in these lawsuits and from what a lot of the sources that I spoke to said, this is definitely one of the factors that's contributing to rising prices in, in, in beef, which would probably then translate to, to higher prices for burgers and McDonald's.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Taco Bell.

[Crystal Ball]

Fantastic.

[Brock Rehore]

And Taco Bell.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, I know.

[Crystal Ball]

Taco Bell kills me.

[Ryan Grim]

No, there's no beef in Taco Bell products.

[Crystal Ball]

Luckily though, don't be a hater. All right, Brock.

[Griffin Davis]

Where, Brock, thanks for coming out. Where can we find you if people want to learn more about you, follow your journalism.

[Ryan Grim]

Sure.

[Brock Rehore]

Yeah. Yeah. My, my Twitter is just my name with no caps and no spaces. Brock Rehore. Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Surprising that was available. I'm glad you could get it.

[Brock Rehore]

Luckily. Yeah.

[Griffin Davis]

Link will be in the description. Thanks for joining us, Brock. We'll catch you later.

[Brock Rehore]

Thanks so much. Appreciate you having me on.

[Ryan Grim]

Bye bye.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah, of course. And guys, make sure you subscribe over at the Lever if you are able. They have actually a lot of really great reporting. Not always, but specifically right now they also have a scoop about Google paying a bunch of legislators to go on some trip, like state legislators, to try to woo them with regard to data centers and fueling sort of that propaganda. They've been doing a lot of great work on AI. Is it an AI bubble, all of that sort of stuff. So give our, our friends over at Lever News some love.

[Griffin Davis]

And Ryan, who we got now in.

[Ryan Grim]

Studio, Hind Hassan joining us from London, who authored a recent piece, well created a documentary for Al Jazeera, did a piece for us over at Dropsite News which I encourage people to go and read the aftermath of the 12 day war between Israel and Iran. The documentary itself which aired on Al Jazeera. If you don't mind, we'll just play, let me just throw up a, a little clip of it and then, and then hint. Well, first of all, Hind, welcome to Breaking Points. Thank you for, for joining us.

[Hind Hassan]

Thank you for having me. Pleasure to be here.

[Ryan Grim]

And so let me pull this, let me pull this up.

[Crystal Ball]

Pleasure.

[Ryan Grim]

Just play a little bit of this so people get a flavor for the Reporting that you, that you did, you and your team did. And then, and then we'll discuss this.

[Hind Hassan]

In Iran's largest cemetery, mothers cry out for children who will Never answer. On June 13, 2025, Israel launched Operation Rising lion, striking nuclear and military facilities as well as devastating residential neighborhoods across Iran, killing hundreds of civilians. Among them 12 year old Amir Ali and his father Reza.

[Ryan Grim]

Daughter.

[Hind Hassan]

The US backed Israel's war, joining the offensive on the 10th day by striking Iran's nuclear sites with some of the biggest bombs in the world. President Trump called it a spectacular military success.

[Ryan Grim]

Hind, when you were talking to people there and going around the country.

[Brock Rehore]

What.

[Ryan Grim]

Did you think you would find going in and what surprised you about, about the aftermath of the attack?

[Hind Hassan]

Well, we've covered for Fault Lines and Vice before I worked with Al Jazeera and Fault Lines. We've covered wars in different parts of the world and wherever you go and you cover these stories of conflict and you speak to the victims of those war, there's not a story that isn't devastating. But when it comes to Iran, and we're not short of hearing about the politics behind it all, we're not short of hearing about the nuclear program, what the US thinks, what Israel thinks, what the Iranian government thinks. But I think what we really wanted to do is focus in and give a platform to those victims of war so we can hear from them the impact of this war because all these wars are fought by politicians and we want to know what impact it has on the people on an individual level. And really just given the space to be able to talk about that.

[Ryan Grim]

And.

[Hind Hassan]

I've done so many interviews with people who have lost loved ones and nothing prepared our entire team for hearing these stories in Iran, every single person on that team, every time we spoke to someone, our translator was crying, the producer behind the screen was crying. It's just very difficult to not be able to feel that emotion with the people that we were speaking to. And it really hammered home just how devastating it is that regardless of what people think in terms of politics and ideology, that the victims of war is always the most vulnerable in society. And you know, they're always the children that we heard about who not only lost their lives, but also are currently struggling with the impact of it and the injuries that they've obtained. I think what we took away from this is just how, how much of an impact this had on people in Iran and also the risk of what another war, the risk of another war and what impact that would have on people as well going Forward.

[Ryan Grim]

What do you think it was that real quick, real quick, what do you think it was that made it so that this hardened crew, though this team that's been around the world and seen the ravages of war, was so extraordinarily affected by this. I wonder if it's partly, it's that Iran, even though they're getting, you know, constantly threatened with attack, it's generally been living at peace, whereas, you know, a lot of war torn areas like they, they can, they can count the, the months in between conflicts and then another and then new conflict comes and it becomes not a way of life, but like less of a shock when the new conflict breaks out. Whereas with this quote unquote, 12 day war, one day there's, there's peace and the next day just bombs are raining down everywhere and then all of a sudden it stops. What was it that shook your team so much?

[Hind Hassan]

Well, first of all, we worked with local Iranian producers as well on the team. Whenever we report, we always work with local journalists. It's the only way that we can really tell the stories as well as we can. And the local journalists that we were working with, they lived through the war themselves. And actually even talking to them when we weren't filming and talking about the possibility of another war, you could see how afraid they were of that possibility because the memory of those bombs going off nearby and hearing the explosions in Tehran during the war and living through that, it was still impacting them. And the idea, I remember when we were in the car one day and there were news reports coming in that Israel might be planning another attack within the next few months, by the end of the year. And the team, the Iranians that we were with, when you're journalists, you just talk about things, don't you? Oh, have you seen this post? Have you seen this tweet? Have you seen whatever. But the response that we had from the Iranian journalists who were in the car and how afraid they were, hearing that us flippantly saying, oh, Israel could attack again. And their response, as humans who live in the war, who will be the people who experience whatever happens, it was, it kind of humbled us a little bit and made us remember that this is, this is real for people and they were so afraid of it happen again. It also hammered home what had happened in Tehran, that this was for the people who lived there, the bombs were going off in the middle, in the middle of the city, in the middle of the capital. And I think also in terms of, so for them going and hearing from Iranians who'd experienced the same things as them but had suffered so much more, that was, was hugely impactful. And also Iranians, they have, obviously every country has, you know, the people have their, their own ways and Iranians have a very, very poetic, lamenting way of, of telling stories or talking about what happened. And, and that came across when we were speaking to them about their loss. And the way that they spoke, you saw there at the top of the, the report, we spoke to Syed, who is the grandfather of emir Ali, a 12 year old who was killed alongside with his father Reza. And just the way that he says, there's a clip that comes later, he said, I prayed for martyrdom. I wish God would take me because I miss him so much. And you can see that in the way that he spoke. It wasn't just, you know, the people behind the camera who were breaking down listening to these stories. Every single person that we spoke to broke down because even though this war happened months ago, the impact that it's had on them, it's so raw right now. And you can see that it's going to be, it's going to live with them forever. It's impacted their lives permanently, it's changed their lives forever. And, and I think that that was really what, you know, how that impacts you. Just, just to say also it's not uncommon for when we go out on the road and we film and we speak to victims, for us to find it very difficult or to cry. I think with a lot of journalists we have this idea that we need to be, that neutrality means to not be moved, whereas I actually don't agree with that. If you're telling the stories of the victims of war and you're dealing with a power dynamic and you're giving them a platform to be able to speak, I think humanity and allowing the viewer to be able to relate to that person on camera and you being able to relate to the person that you're speaking to, it's not an accountability interview. This, this is somebody who suffered through something. I think that's actually very important. And when you have that sort of relationship, it really comes across on camera.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Wait. And I was going to ask more about the reporting process, the reporting process too. Just what it was like to be in Iran. If there's anything you want to add, just about being a journalist in Iran, were people eager to talk? Was it hard to find anyone? Or were people really like, very pleased to be able to tell their story? But yeah, as a journalist in Iran trying to cover this Any difficulties, any process stories that might be interesting.

[Hind Hassan]

It's not easy to get access to Iran. It is very difficult to go there as journalists and to report. So we worked for a long time trying to get this access and, you know, we were very happy when we were able to go in. And then once again, once you're inside, it's not so easy that, you know, you can go out and report whatever it is you want. There are processes in order to be able to get access to certain things. Some things are easier than others. So, for example, when we want to speak to a victim of the war, that is a case of working with the local journalists, knowing who the people are that have been impacted, reaching out to them, seeing if they're willing to speak. There were some people who didn't want to speak to us. There were some people who would say, actually we don't want to speak to Western journalists. In fact, Amir Ali's grandfather, at first he didn't really want to speak to us because he said, you know, I've done it before and what I said didn't come across accurately. And I don't know what impact it's going to have and I don't know what change it's going to have. But we hear that from people wherever we go. When people have experienced something and they have been made victims, sometimes they lose faith in institutions or platforms or the media. We did face that a lot. And that definitely made us really determined to ensure that we are telling the story accurately and really doing justice to whatever it is that they were telling us. So that had its own issues. But I think it's very similar to wherever you go, reaching out to people, speaking to them, building that trust between you and the people that you're speaking to to ensure that they are happy and that you are having an honest relationship and. And you can tell their story as well as you can the other places, for example, in the documentary, we actually managed to get access to Avine Prison and even, you know, has been reported on many times before. It's the location of where anti government activists or protesters or journalists have been reported to have been held. Is also the place that was bombed by Israel and resulted in the largest casualty as a result of an attack on the 11th day of the 12 day war. So right at the end, and so getting access to that was very, very difficult. And we were having to put in requests repeatedly over and over again. It looked like at one point we might not be able to get access. And then, you know, we got the Phone call saying, be there at this time. Even when we went in, we couldn't just explore the prison grounds as much as we wanted to, but we were able to see one of the major bombed out sites of the prison and it was left as it was and we were allowed to roam about in there and have a look and you know, go and look at the different flaws and, you know, see what had been left and the impacts of that. And so. But it was very difficult getting in. And when we finally managed to get in, we did have some freedom to be able to explore that area and to really try and understand the impact of that strike. And then afterwards we actually spoke to, you know, one of the judges who is, you know, works with the government on human rights. And we also put to him the allegations of human rights abuses in IR prison by the Iranian government. So we covered all angle and also they were very happy to answer those questions. Maybe happy is the wrong word. But they, they didn't put up any obstacles to us asking those questions or saying that we couldn't ask those questions. And, and we did do that, that. So I would say definitely very difficult to get access to anything that is linked to the government. Another example, sorry, is there is a building, Shamron building, which was Shamron complex and that was bombed. One of the first places that was bombed in the, in the first hours of the war. And it resulted in what the government tells us was around, I think I'd have to check this through the documentary but you know, around 46, I think people killed in total and 24 of those being children. But that building was linked to the Ministry of Defence. And so getting access to that, for example, was difficult and we had to wait just to be able to go film on that site. And you know, there were procedures and communications that we had to go through but in the end again we were allowed to go there and film and see what was left of this building that had been destroyed. That is the same building that Amir Ali's grandfather Amir Ali had been killed.

[Crystal Ball]

And I have a. Maybe it's a silly question. And then unfortunately, after I ask my question, to hear your answer, I'm gonna have to jump because my daughter has a gymnastics meet today that I have to answer to. But, but my silly question here is, you know, as an American on Twitter, I'm treated to a lot of images of women in miniskirts on the street in Tehran in the 1970s. And I'm curious when you weren't reporting and doing your job when you were Just out and about in the city as a woman, like, observing ordinary life on the streets. Like, what does it give Americans a sense of what is it like in Tehran right now?

[Hind Hassan]

So this was my first time in Tehran. I'd never been before, and I too had just seen the images that were online. And actually what I saw now surprised me. So we were advised that it was probably a good idea to wear the hijab. And you can see in the documentary, I'm kind of. Of wearing a, you know, a half hijab, I would say, in Tehran. And we didn't go outside of Tehran. But in Tehran, most of the women either wore the hijab loosely, wore it around the neck or didn't wear it at all. And one of the very trendy young areas, hipster areas that we saw, we went there in the evening. It wasn't too far from the hotel. We saw a woman. I saw a woman bus her in a crop top walking around the streets of Tehran, which was just hugely surprising. Now, I'm told, you know, this is something. This is a recent development. It hasn't always been like this, but since the protests and then also since the war, there has been an easing up of people's freedoms, individual freedoms in Iran to be able to dress how they want. So that was definitely something that I saw.

[Crystal Ball]

I would.

[Hind Hassan]

Was really shocked with the amount. And it wasn't just like the odd person here and there, many women not wearing, not wearing hijab, which was. Was something that, you know, was surprising for me to see, considering especially what we've heard. But, yeah, it was, it was what was also. What's interesting, I do think this is important to say, is that we spoke to a lot of people who, who were not fans of the government and people who supported the government, but they all said that they were united against the attack on Iran. So I think this is what we've heard from people, a lot of Iranians, you know, speculating, and people that we speak to thought that perhaps Israel's plan was to create some form of disunity inside Iran and to create unrest. And that didn't happen. Actually, a lot of the people there, the people, whether they supported the government, whether they didn't support the government, were very, very united against outside aggression or the, the bombing of Iran. And once you're there and you speak to the victims and you see the impact, it's very, very clear. People were afraid. They, they lost loved ones, they lost children. And so the feelings of politics were put aside. And in return, you had this unity against the bombing of their country and that, that was something that was, that came across with everyone that we spoke to.

[Ryan Grim]

Last question for me then. How was. And Crystal, thank you. Good luck.

[Crystal Ball]

Thank you guys. Thank you. Hannah, it's great to meet you. Thank you. Guys.

[Ryan Grim]

Guys, how were people talking about a, a follow on strike? Was it, were they talking about it more as a, a looming weather event? Basically, like just this is like this is going to happen and we just need to kind of prepare for it and there's nothing we can do about it or was there any talk about ways that they could actually stave off some type of second attack? And did. And I guess related to that, there's been a lot of reporting in the last several days about, about Iran, Iran's quote unquote pivot to China and kind of giving up almost, I don't know, giving up isn't the right word, but putting more emphasis on the relationship with China rather than bending over backwards to try to get Europeans and the Americans to lift the sanctions and stop attacking them.

[Hind Hassan]

Well, I think with the people that we spoke to, first of all. So the first, first, first part of your question and, and of course this isn't, this won't be everybody. These are just the snapshot of opinions that we got when we were there. And the people that we spoke to was almost like a kind of a psychological defense that they didn't want to accept that it was happening again. It wasn't like they were, oh yes, this is definitely happening. We've got to just, you know, get through it. And it was more like, we don't want this.

[Ryan Grim]

Right?

[Hind Hassan]

We don't want this to happen. Please don't let this happen again. We don't want this to happen. And it's not, they've definitely psychologically, I don't think want to accept that it would happen again. I think, you know, to emphasize the bombing that happened in Tehrano and the people that we spoke to for 12 days destroyed so many people's lives and put the fear of God into a lot of people. And the idea of just broaching this could happen again. They want whatever can be done to avoid that. That's not something. It's like, okay, we need to get through this or this is the next time. And I think they're very aware that if, if there is another war, it could be longer and it could result in more lives and we don't know what will happen then. You know, if what will be the aim and the goal, if you've already bombed the nuclear plants and you say that you've put back the nuclear program by 10 years. What are you going to try and achieve from the next conflict? And is it to do with, you know, getting rid of the government? And if that's the case, that is a long and bloody war. And so people, I think they are petrified of that happening and are hopeful and want a diplomatic solution. And actually, when we spoke to the foreign minister, the Iranian foreign minister, we also interviewed the documentary. Every answer he gave to us, any question we asked him, he ended it with, there is only a diplomatic solution. He said that over and over again. It's very clear that they do not want to go into another armed conflict. They do, of course, as a government, they had to say over and over again, you know, we will fight back with everything we've got. We are prepared. We will take on Israel if, you know, if they want to attack us, we will defend ourselves and we have the mean to do so. So, and then prefix it with we think we would like a diplomatic solution. And to answer your, your second question, they try, are they stopping bending over backwards for the US and pivoting to China? I think that's definitely something. You could see when we were inside Iran that a lot of the exports were coming from that direction. Sorry, imports from that direction. And, and also.

[Ryan Grim]

Just like us.

[Hind Hassan]

Yes. Yeah. And, and then we also, and, and then like in the conversations that we had with the foreign minister, he said that we do not trust the US as an honest negotiating partner. Again, that doesn't mean that he said, doesn't mean that we don't want a diplomatic solution. We do. And we want to emphasize that over and over again. But it's clear that they don't trust the U.S. it's clear that they don't have a huge amount of, amount of hope. And yeah, it's a, it's a case of waiting to see what happens next.

[Emily Jashinsky]

So. Interesting.

[Ryan Grim]

Well, so hint, Hasan, the, the documentary is called 12 Days that Shook Iran. You can find it on Al Jazeera English's YouTube page. You can also read your summary. People can read your summary over it drop site. But thanks so much. And last thing, like, like, do you know what, do you know what's next? You know what investigation you're doing next? Can you tell? Or is it that under wraps?

[Hind Hassan]

Well, first of all, thank you for having me. You know, great to be here with you all and what's coming next. There, there's a few things in the pipeline for 2026. I don't want to give away too much and jinx it because none of it has been 100% over the line. But look out for prisons and Brazil.

[Ryan Grim]

Okay, there we go.

[Hind Hassan]

Those words make me interchange something. Two separate things that are not in the same could be something different. Don't hold me to it. But there's always something in the pipeline.

[Ryan Grim]

Well, I look forward to having you back when those come out of the other end of the pipeline.

[Hind Hassan]

I look forward to it. Thank you so much.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Stay safe.

[Hind Hassan]

Thank you.

[Ryan Grim]

So, Griffin, Griffin, does that do it for this portion of the program or do we have anything else?

[Griffin Davis]

You know what we're running. We're running out of time. Let's, let's move over to the second half, which you can find.

[Ryan Grim]

Of course, we haven't talked about weed. We can just let people know that Sagar.

[Griffin Davis]

Oh, yeah, Saga needed to get that in. Did it happen?

[Ryan Grim]

It looks like they're rescheduling weed. Yeah.

[Griffin Davis]

Oh, my God.

[Ryan Grim]

Which means that the weed shops will have access to banking. I've been talking to Sagar. I think he's onto like a, a real genuine corruption angle. Like if you look at some of the, the movements of the, the weed penny stocks over the last couple of days, I'm, I'm shocked that there wasn't more integrity among the, the stock traders in, in weed companies. But it looks like the administration was leaking some information to some of these weed executives and that they were, they were making money off of it.

[Griffin Davis]

But I guess not weed users because they would have never sent those emails if they've been smoking it. I want to get into that and a lot of other stories in the second half of the show. And Sagar also sent us a, a manifesto or a rebuttal to the, to the weed legalization that I'll, that I'll have to bring up on the show as well. We're going to switch over to that now. You can go to Emily. Where can you go to sign up for Breaking Points? Where do you go?

[Emily Jashinsky]

You go to breaking points.com, of course. Obviously. Why would you go anywhere else? Breakingpoints.com get that premium membership. Great Christmas gift. Great Christmas gift to yourself. Shout out, by the way, to all of the premium subs that came up to us after our Reason debate, where, of course, as expected, we did wipe the floor with the wonderful folks at Reason. But, but so many breakers there. It was like Ryan and I were looking around. We're like, whoa, there are a lot of you guys. You guys showed up in force. So. And drop site fans.

[Ryan Grim]

So reason.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yep. Join the club. Breaking points.com premium subscription.

[Griffin Davis]

And Ryan, what do you get for that premium subscription?

[Ryan Grim]

Well, soon when I win the internal argument, you're going to get the Friday show live. It is running up against some internal obstacles by the name of Griffin. But we're going to over. We're going to overcome them.

[Griffin Davis]

The compromise folks. We're going to go live, but we're going to start an hour later. That's the compromise.

[Ryan Grim]

And actually as a west coaster that will, you know, you'll actually be able to see the sun when you wake up. So. Okay, you know, I'll make that deal.

[Griffin Davis]

Oh, okay. I love it. Sweet.

[Ryan Grim]

Start. Start an hour later. Friday show live for premium subscribers. And then Monday through Thursday you get the show an hour early without, without the ads. Unless YouTube just breaks their deal with us and like puts inserts ads into the unlisted link, which sometimes they do and you know, they're a monopoly and they can do that. But you get it, you get the, you get the show an hour early and you get, you get the entire thing so that you can, you know, when you, when you get to a segment where you're like really like you're covering this, you can just skip right through it and go to the next one.

[Griffin Davis]

Yeah, incredible features there. And then you know, ultimately you get to ask us AMA questions to the hosts. And finally this one is more of like an invisible hand. But your guys support allows people like Ryan to do crazy journalism where they attack the biggest people in the world and out their dirty laundry. And that requires resources and requires there's lawyers on standby. So all that is another big, big support to us. So we'll see you over there in the second half.

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[Crystal Ball]

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[Ryan Grim]

Janice Torres here and I'm Austin Hankwitz. We host the podcast Mind the Business.

[Brock Rehore]

Small Business Success Stories, produced by Ruby.

[Ryan Grim]

Studio in partnership with Intuit QuickBooks. We're back for season four to talk.

[Trashy Ad Voice]

To some incredible small business owners.

[Brock Rehore]

The big thing about working at tech is that it's ever evolving, ever changing.

[Ryan Grim]

Everyone's a rookie.

[Brock Rehore]

That's how fast the industry is changing. So what I'm really excited about is to be part of that change. So listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Crystal Ball]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.