← Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
1/21/25: Trump Sweeping Executive Orders, Jan 6 Pardons, Vivek Exiled, Trump Predicts Gaza Ceasefire Failure
01:01:52
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- [00:00]
Jon Stewart
Catch Jon Stewart back in action on the Daily show and in your ears with the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. From his hilarious satirical takes on today's politics and entertainment to the unique voices of correspondents and contributors, it's your perfect companion to stay on top of what's happening now. Plus, you'll get special content just for podcast listeners, like in depth interviews and a roundup of the week's top headlines. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or. Or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:34]
Adnan Virk
What's up everybody? Adnan Burke here to tell you about a new podcast. It's NHL Unscripted with Virkin Demers, Jason Demers here.
- [00:41]
Jason Demers
And after playing 700 NHL games, I got a lot of dirty laundry to air out.
- [00:45]
Adnan Virk
Hey, I got a lot to say here too, okay? Each week we'll get together to chat about the sport that we love.
- [00:49]
Jason Demers
Tons of guests are going to join in too. But we're not just going to be talking hockey, folks. We're talking movies. We're talking TV, food, and Adnan's favorite wrestling. It's all on Le Tablet.
- [00:59]
Adnan Virk
Listen to NHL Unscripted with Vir and Demers in the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:07]
Sagar Enjeti
You.
- [01:07]
Tisha Allen
Are cordially invited to the hottest party in professional sports. I'm Tisha Allen, former golf professional and the host of welcome to the Party, your newest obsession about the wonderful world that is women's golf. Featuring interviews with top players on tour, tips to help improve your swing, and and the craziest stories to come out of your friendly neighborhood country club. Welcome to the Party with Tisha Allen is an iHeart woman's fourth production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Listen to welcome to the Party. That's P A R T E e on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:48]
Krystal Ball
Hey guys, Sager and Krystal here.
- [01:50]
Sagar Enjeti
Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of the show.
- [01:57]
Krystal Ball
This is the only place where you can find honest persp from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.
- [02:03]
Sagar Enjeti
So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.
- [02:14]
Krystal Ball
We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breakingpoints.com Good morning, everybody. Are we up? I think we are. I'm not exactly sure in terms of what the holding screen says here. So I'm just going to talk. Talk as if we are actually live. It is the first day of the Donald Trump administration, I guess first full day here after Donald Trump's inauguration Yesterday as the 47th President of the United States. Later in the day, Crystal he took to both Capitol One arena and the Oval Office to sign hundreds of executive orders. We are expecting more executive orders later today as well as a press conference around 4pm they say that they're doing a big infrastructure project. So for those of you who've been in politics for a while, you may remember something called Infrastructure Week under Donald Trump back in 2017. And I guess Infrastructure Week is back. It became a joke, but maybe it's not a joke anymore, you know, maybe it's officially real. But what we're gonna do here is that we're doing a livestream because things are moving very quickly and our ability to be able to prepare a show would be dated by the time that we were even able to put out. So we're gonna react to some of the news from yesterday and then just generally be live with all of you. Kind of a fun new format here to just go through everything with everyone about what's coming in and obviously react to the big stories, the big actions. We do not have a White House press secretary scheduled for today, but Trump will apparently not only be doing a. Trump will not only be doing a press conference on this infrastructure thing. He said it will be taking questions as well. So we'll see. Hope to see it. He took a lot of questions yesterday. So what do we have?
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Sagar Enjeti
Stuff. And by the way, there's something a little weird going on with our monitors.
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Krystal Ball
Yeah, I'm not sure what's happening. So if we look confused.
- [04:07]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, that's why we may seem a little like, where are we and what are we doing? But in any case, there are a bunch of executive orders to go through. A lot of drill, baby, drill. A lot of immigration. So we'll break some of the highlights or low lights, depending on your perspective of those down for you. Shelby Talcott is going to join us. Fantastic reporter. She's going to be taking a look at the January 6th pardons, which was quite across the board. Not just nonviolent January 6th offenders, but people who were beating cops as well. And then there were a few that were sentenced commutations. So she's gonna break that down for Us. She's also gonna break down for us. The news about Vivek is officially out at Doge. He was the first cut. Many people have made this joke at this point, but he was the first one to face the act.
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Krystal Ball
He's been banished to the hinterlands, to the provinces from the imperial capital.
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Sagar Enjeti
Yeah. So, I mean, it's interesting. There's a Politico article that suggests Elon really just was kind of, like, annoyed with him even before the Saved by the Bell Boy Meets World screed. So that was the excuse to push him aside. But in any case, we'll get Shelby's thoughts and what she knows about all of that. Update on the what appears increasingly to be a temporary ceasefire in Gaza. Trump weighed in on this himself and said he has little confidence that that ceasefire will be able to hold. So we'll take a look at that. We're also taking a look at the whole TikTok situation, which is interesting. We touched on it a little bit yesterday, but wanted to dive into that more because it is. I mean, it says so much about Trump and Republicans and Democrats and how to wield power in this era, et cetera. So we'll take a look at that. We're also going to take a look at these Trump and Melania shitcoins. Some pastor who was involved in the inauguration decided to also get in on the action and drop his own meme coin. So wild things happening there. And a little Elon Musk awkward gesture controversy that has the Internet and the media and all the people are talking about this. So Sagar and I will take a look.
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Krystal Ball
Yeah, I guess we can debate it. Cause I'm pretty sure I know what you're gonna say, but. Okay, all right.
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Sagar Enjeti
Pretty sure I know what you're saying.
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Krystal Ball
Let's go say. Yeah, that's right. I don't think there's anything that original to say about it, but, yeah, so be it. I guess that's what the people want about Elon and Nazism, et cetera. So, everyone, get ready for a Roman salute history lesson.
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Sagar Enjeti
Oh, boy.
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Krystal Ball
If that's what people want, if we're gonna do it, let's do it. Let's start off with Donald Trump. Tron. I apologize, everybody. I just want everybody to know this. I got, like, four hours of sleep last night, and I was out very, very late. And as people know here, I'm a baby about my bedtime. Okay? I need my eight hours. And so I've got two cups of coffee and a Diet Coke here. Bear with Me with the slips and everything, just for live streaming. We're keeping it.
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Sagar Enjeti
Coffee.
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Krystal Ball
Call him Donald.
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Sagar Enjeti
Dump all you want.
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Krystal Ball
In my opinion.
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Sagar Enjeti
Yes, that's right.
- [06:50]
Krystal Ball
I'm gonna start sounding like Kyle, you know, but anyways, let's go with Donald Trump in the Oval Office. Producers, can we please cue up the clip? Just come in my ear and tell me whenever it's ready. Trump was in the Oval Office for a long time yesterday, actually much later than he was originally scheduled to, signing multiple executive orders. Some of them are posturing, some of them will take effect immediately. One of the more high profile ones, as opposed to January 6, was this order on birthright citizenship. So let's take a listen, if we can, to what happened in the Oval Office whenever he was signing that.
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Sagar Enjeti
This next order relates to the definition.
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Krystal Ball
Of birthright citizenship under the 14th Amendment.
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Sagar Enjeti
Of the United States.
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Donald Trump
That's a good one. Birthright. That's a big one.
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Krystal Ball
What about that one in the courts? That one is likely to be.
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Donald Trump
Could be. We think we have good ground. But you could be right. I mean, you'll find out it's ridiculous. We're the only country in the world that does this with birthright, as you know, and it's just absolutely ridiculous. But, you know, we'll see. We think we have very good grounds.
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Krystal Ball
All right, so what we have there from Trump was one of these birthright citizenship orders. It was part of a slate of executive actions. Guys, can we go ahead and put the Trump executive orders, New York Times tear sheet, please, up on the screen so I can just read through a bunch of these. So, for example, one of the more important ones on the federal workforce was freezing of federal hiring. This is a resumption of a policy that was held under the first Trump administration. One of them was to grant top security clearances to the White House staff. There was also some, like I said, some symbolic stuff, stripping John Bolton and a few others of their own security clearances.
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Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, all the people who signed on to that, like Hunter Biden infamous. Oh, it has the hallmarks of Russian disinformation all over the place.
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Krystal Ball
They've been stripped of their security clearance. I didn't even know that those people got to keep their security clearance, which is kind of ridiculous. Probably should terminate on your end of government service, whatever. On immigration, we are gonna quote bar asylum for people newly arriving at the border. Move to end birthright citizenship. That's the one that we just showed you. That is going to face constitutional challenge within the hour and will quickly make its way to The United States Supreme Court. It is actually an interesting question because the way that the executive order is phrased is specifically trying to target people who are in the country illegally. So it gets to this question of temporary visa status and the citizenship of the people who are born in the United States. From those parents, I don't know. I've talked to a bunch of different lawyers. The odds generally seem to be against Trump. It would probably have to change a constitution. It's like the census. You know, the census. The way we do the census is ridiculous. But it literally says in the Constitution that you have to do the census that way and nobody seems like they want to change it. So there's that one. There is the declaring migrant crossing along the US Mexico border to be a, quote, national emergency. The national emergency declaration unlocks federal funding kind of in the way that you'll do it for a hurricane or something like that. Could also face some constitutional challenge, but because it went through last time around there, worked its way through the courts, there's some legal precedents considering. Oh, and then designating the cartels as foreign terrorist organization. Same thing. It opens up a lot of sanctions power. And also, as you pointed out yesterday, Crystal opens up the AUMF order if they want to pursue that. On dei, it was terminating DEI programs across the federal government recognizing two sexes, male and female. I love the way they put this. Remove protections for transgender people in federal prisons. Tariffs. This is actually arguably the most important one here for everybody. So this is basically a confirmation of what Jeff Stein had previously reported. There is no, quote, day one tariff going into effect. The way they are doing this is moving it through the federal process for a study. So what he's effectively said is we're going to carry out a full review of the US Industrial and manufacturing base. The reason that you have to do that is that legally to be able to impose tariffs, you need a justification. So there's some 180 day period where the government goes out, assesses, does a review, and based on that review, you're allowed to then declare a tariff based on a national security basis. The reason why you need to do the study is to survive legal scrutiny. So this is the beginning of the legal process to get us to tariffs, but it will not come through 100%. Similarly, like this began an investigation into trade practices and trade deficits. This is all legalistic language, but is very important for actually getting this stuff done. And then finally there were a bunch of executive orders withdrawing the US from the Paris Climate Accords, declaring a National emergency, which could expedite the permitting. Like to get around permitting reform, problems for drilling and yeah, I think. Oh, and then the last one is TikTok, but we will get to that. So there you go.
- [11:47]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah. And he also issued, like I said, blanket pardons. Excuse me, for the J6 people. So we'll talk to Shelby about that as well. A couple other things. He rescinded a bunch of Biden executive orders, a couple of those that are interesting. One of them was aimed at reducing prescription drug prices for people who are on Medicare and Medicaid. That was reversed by Trump. Another one that is significant that we can also talk about a little bit in the context of the latest with regards to the ceasefire is, you'll remember Biden put into place an executive order allowing them to sanction extreme violent Israeli settlers. That has been applied to some roughly 33 people. He rolled that back as well. And this is consequential right now, in particular because settlers are rampaging and rioting like crazy in the West Bank. Of course, oftentimes with the backing of the Israeli government. That has been rolled back. Two additional things just to note here and can get your take on 2 Sagar. So Jeff Stein is reporting about the latest indications with regards to Trump and the tariff regime. So he says takeaways from Trump's press are related to the things I cover. And maybe you care about 25% tariffs on Mexico and Canada could start in 10 days. Obviously, Trump has been, you know, I guess aggressively talking to both the Canadians and the Mexican government about what that could look like. You know, if that's an across the board tariff, that is insanely consequential. It's very consequential for the auto industry. Those auto parts as part of the manufacturing process cross back and forth over the borders multiple times in the course of putting together a vehicle. So that would be incredibly consequential in terms of building materials, in terms of oil, especially Midwest. So if there aren't exemptions. But these are all big question marks if we don't have a lot of clarity on all of this. So put that one to the side. China could be hit with major tariffs if they don't sell TikTok. Suggest 100% as a possibility. Could talk more about that in the TikTok section. Universal tariff on all countries still on the table. Trump thinks Russia's economy is falling apart, but wouldn't comment on if he would keep U.S. sanctions. And Elon Musk's doge will get a White house office with 20 people more to say about that in a moment as well.
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Krystal Ball
Yeah.
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Sagar Enjeti
To go back to the birthright citizenship piece, the reason why you're saying it'll be clearly challenged if the lawsuit hasn't already been filed, will be imminently filed. The 14th Amendment says Section 1 states all persons born or naturalized in the US and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the U.S. and of the state wherein they reside. Now, scholars in particular on the right, who want to say, no, no, that doesn't mean that everybody who's born in the US Is a citizen. They point to that, subject to the jurisdiction thereof, and make the case that potentially some of these individuals aren't really subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, so they don't count as citizens. I think it's previously been a relatively fringe legal argument that has been made. However, you now have a Supreme Court that is very conservative and so, question mark, what would happen there? And then I think the other question is, like, how far does Trump want to push things? Because let's just say theoretically that this goes through the court system, goes to the Supreme Court. Supreme Court's like, no, it's in the Constitution. You can't just end birthright citizenship with an executive order. That's not how this works. There's also a possibility that Trump says, as Andrew Jackson said in the past, like, okay, well, how are you going to enforce that? You and what army are going to enforce that? So since you have this time around, and this is part of what's different, number one, he has immunity for anything that he does in office, so he doesn't have to worry about any sort of criminal consequences or whatever. That's off the table. Number two. And as part of these executive orders, Schedule F was instituted. There's been a highly concerted and organized effort in the four years when he was out of power to make sure that he has loyalists in place who will execute on orders, even things that may not be legal may not be constitutional. So I think you can fully expect the executive branch would go along with whatever his interpretation is. So, you know, it really does open up, like I said, a question about how far is he willing to go on this if the courts do what I think most people would expect them to do, although there are no guarantees of striking down this particular executive order.
- [16:12]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, that's right. That's a big question, actually, for a lot of the way, the Supreme Court. And by the way, apparently Justice Sotomayor, somebody I knew who was in the Rotunda, was not looking too healthy. So just People should prepare themselves now that Donald Trump is the president.
- [16:25]
Sagar Enjeti
Can you believe she RBG 2.0?
- [16:27]
Krystal Ball
Can you believe she did not respond?
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Sagar Enjeti
I do.
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Krystal Ball
No, I can believe it too, but it's like after the whole RBG, this is a diabetic 70 year old woman who's like borderline obese. Like, do I need to show you what a chart looks like and beyond. Why would you want to string it out? Your last years voting in the minority, you know, and then allegedly being in the service of some grander ideal. It's just the most insane thing, again, thing I've ever seen.
- [16:53]
Sagar Enjeti
The same thing about our president, now the oldest to be sworn into office. Actuarial tables.
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Krystal Ball
Okay.
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Sagar Enjeti
About his, hey, listen, JD, age and.
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Krystal Ball
Weight, et cetera, JD's sitting right there in the wings.
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Sagar Enjeti
Okay?
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Krystal Ball
So it's not the similar situation where literally like, I mean, imagine like that would mean. It'd be like if there was no vice president and you were that old and you could have risked it to bring in a Democrat. That would be an insane situation.
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Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, it would be like if the person who was gonna take over for.
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Krystal Ball
Trump, if he's like Nancy Pelosi. Yes, exact.
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Sagar Enjeti
Or like Barack Obama or something, was.
- [17:20]
Krystal Ball
The speaker and they're like, oh, I'm just gonna chance it and maybe a Democrat will become the President of the United States. So that's what she's decided to do overall with the executive orders. What I would say broadly is that this is a result really of preparation over the last four years. And I made this point in our stream yesterday, but I wanna reiterate it here for people. I think it's really interesting to consider that Trump is actually at the absolute apex of. Because he was not in the Oval Office for the last four years, both culturally with Joe Biden nuking the Democratic Party. I think they have the lowest approval rating for the Democratic Party in modern history. According to Gallup polling, he wins the popular vote. But more importantly is the last four years were a battle test of the GOP back in 2020. The John McCain's, the Jeff Flakes, the Liz Cheney's and all of those other people. There was not a ton, but there was a little bit of consternation ideologically and theoret about the party. But Trump being able to get away with all of the things that he has done, still get the nomination and still get elected to the White House on top of a four year, what I would almost describe as like a cooling off period for the conservative movement where everyone had a fight about DeSantis versus Trump and all of that, then Trump won. So for the last two years, the conservative legal establishment, the Federalist Society, all of these people have gotten together and be like, okay, we're doing this if we win, and this is the way that we're gonna do. That's so different, I mean, monumentally different than 2017, where everything was up for grabs. Half the people who worked for Trump didn't even like Trump. They actually voted against him or they denounced him, you know, a month before, they were working as White House chief of staff or whatever. Like Reince previous. This time, it's just like, totally not the case. And with those loyalists. But on top of, like, the professionalism, I would say, of a lot of the Senior Executive Service and others who will be replacing the current bureaucrats, the lawyer people like Will Scharf, the guy who was in that video, who is staff secretary, these are Harvard, Princeton educated lawyers. These are people with a blue pedigree background. Stephen Miller and them have been working behind the scenes now for years to be able to prepare this. So I do think it will look very different this time around. In the interim now, there will always be chaos. There will always be Mika Brzezinski, facelift, tweets, truths and all of that, et cetera. But. But at an actionable level, I expect it and see this in such a difference from last time. I mean, don't you remember that travel ban order he put in place in his first week? It was reversed 10 days later, you know, and it was just chaotic. It made no sense. This time around, everything like the tariffs, everything is moving through the technical legal process to avoid court challenge, to avoid many of the things that struck them down and he had problems with. So that's really what I see in the professionalism of a lot of the people around Donald Trump. That has nothing to do with Trump himself, but it has to do with his movement, what people believe in, and actually trying to make actionable. Many of the things he talked about on the campaign.
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Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, I mean, the way that I would say that is basically they have their ducks in a row and there are no breaks left on the car.
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Krystal Ball
Right.
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Sagar Enjeti
And he doesn't have to. He doesn't have to answer to anyone. He doesn't have to get reelect for reelection again. So there's no Democratic break. Any sort of GOP opposition has been vanquished. I mean, a lot of Democratic opposition has been vanquished. See, the fact that Marco Rubio got approved is like total neocon warmonger. But whatever got approved 99 to nothing in his Senate confirmation hearing yesterday. And it shows you what a great fight the Democrats are putting up this time around. And I think part of that is not only, yes, he won the popular vote by a point and a half, yes, there's this, this huge sort of vibe shift with all the tech oligarchs backing him and this right wing cultural consensus that is formed, especially in particular sort of at elite levels where this has been embraced as their path to make sure that they hold their grip on power, et cetera. So you have all of those pieces that have come together. And then also Trump, from a business perspective, he, in his first administration, his big accomplishment was passing a giant tax cut, some of the more populous direction that he had embraced in 2016. Now he's hanging out with the masters of the universe tech oligarch types. He had four of the five richest people in the world at his inauguration sitting behind him yesterday. And so the business community doesn't feel threatened or afraid anymore the way that they did the last time. They feel like there's more to be gained from collaborating with him than there is to be gained from opposing him. So, yeah, I mean, and like I said, one of the, okay, so these are, there's a whole raft of executive orders. The birthright citizenship one is not the only one that is ultimately gonna be challenged in federal court. And then the question is, okay, well, how far is he going to go? Because what we're basically relying on at this point is for Donald Trump to check himself, to say, the court said I can't do that, so I'm not going to do that because there is no other check in place that has been part of the effort of the past four years and really consolidated by the Supreme Court with the immunity decision that has been the project the last four years is to make sure there are no possible checks in place. And yes, they've been very successful at that. So if I have to look at these executive orders, I read through the whole, the entire thread listing all of them. There are quite a number of them, a lot of them in a lot of different directions. There were some woke dei, anti DEI stuff, the transgender. There's only two genders one, but I think the bulk of them, the impetus is on really militarized aggressive immigration approach. And then the really opening up, getting rid of any semblance of concern about climate, obviously withdrawing from the Paris climate accords. I mean, nobody's been following those anyway. So I don't know how consequential that is. But rolling back things like the EV tax credits, making sure we're sending any restrictions on where you can drill, et cetera. So from my perspective, at a time when we're seeing more and more extreme climate emergencies, including the ones we just saw in la, I think that's a disastrous direction to go in. But those are the two major pushes here in the early days of the Trump administration.
- [24:01]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, I mean, and that actually gets back to inflation because one of the things that was most effective for Donald Trump was gas prices whenever he was president. It's one of the things he's talked about the most. That's the reason why they're doing it. And that's largely it's to actually try and drop the price of gas and more importantly, to actually increase oil export for a lot of these people, which is a huge priority of the oil and gas companies.
- [24:23]
Sagar Enjeti
And the tariffs would potentially cut in the opposite direction.
- [24:26]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, that's right. They actually could.
- [24:27]
Sagar Enjeti
Although depending on how you know what the tariffs end up being, would determine.
- [24:32]
Krystal Ball
It would be interesting because it could actually increase net export of natural gas and oil if we do tariff. Because then we wouldn't be bringing as much or. Yeah, it would decrease our net exports, which is kind of the opposite of where the oil companies and all of them want to go to this new year.
- [24:48]
Shelby Talcott
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Jon Stewart
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- [26:40]
Jon Stewart
Back in action on the Daily show and in your ears with the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. From his hilarious satirical takes on today's politics and entertainment to the unique voices of correspondence and contributors, it's your perfect companion to stay on top of what's happening now. Plus, you'll get special content just for podcast listeners like in depth interviews and around up with the week's top headlines. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [27:15]
Krystal Ball
So we're being told we do have Shelby Talcott who is waiting to join us. So Shelby is the White House correspondent for the for Semaphore. She's a great friend of the show. She's gonna talk to us about these January 6th executive orders. So guys, let's go ahead and bring her in and we'll discuss. So there she is. Shelby, how are you?
- [27:36]
J.D. Vance
Good, how are you?
- [27:37]
Krystal Ball
We're great. Thank you so much. Nice to see you for joining us. So guys, can we go ahead and put a tear sheet here on the January 6th pardon? Shelby, Donald Trump, one of the big executive orders that he signed yesterday was commuting the sentences of the crowd boy and oath keeper leaders, along with some over 1,000 other January 6th Capitol rioters. Just talk to us about some of the background that went into us. There was a big question mark as to who exactly would get commutations and pardons. J.D. vance, the vice president, was on television about nine days ago and had indicated that it would be less sweeping, I guess, than currently. How did they come to that decision and what's the end result?
- [28:18]
J.D. Vance
Yeah, I think everybody thought that it was going to be less sweeping because we heard from so many Trump allies and even Donald Trump himself over the past two years who sort of said that it would be on a case by case basis. And there were a lot of people who told me that they would be doing it on a case by case basis. And like JD Vance said, if you, for example, beat up a police officer, then you deserve to go to prison. But that's not what ultimately happened. And I think what's really interesting here is the backstory. I've done a lot of reporting over the last two years on this situation. And remember, right after January 6th, Donald Trump never really wanted to bring that up. He condemned the situation, even if it was a little bit forced. And then he really didn't want to bring it up. He never mentioned it on the campaign trail. But there was an outside effort from allies of these defendants to get him on board. And so they started sort of petitioning people in his orbit. And then Donald Trump tapped an individual to oversee the January 6th defendants and their supporters. And they started coming to Mar a Lago and they started meeting with Donald Trump and sort of petitioning him. And over the course of two years, we've seen how his opinion of these defendants has changed drastically. And it ultimately ended up that he just gave a sweeping pardon, which I think people in his orbit didn't even anticipate.
- [29:38]
Sagar Enjeti
Interesting talk about some of the specifics of the people who were pardoned. I think there were some like 14 or 16, something like that, who had their sentences commuted. And Trump said, we can look into them further. Maybe they also deserve a full pardon. But by and large, everybody, whether they just sort of wandered in and didn't know what they were doing allegedly, or whether they were involved in violently assaulting police officers, by and large, they were all set free, pardoned, full and complete pardon, et cetera. So give us some of the specifics of some of the people that we're talking about here and what they were convicted for doing on January 6th.
- [30:16]
J.D. Vance
So one of the people who did get a pardon is Enrique Tarrio. He used to head up the Proud Boys. He was serving 22 years in prison, prison for seditious conspiracy. And then there were also five other, I believe, Proud Boys who had their sentences commuted. And there were 14 in total sentences that were commuted. And Donald Trump said that they're going to be taking a look and seeing if they could potentially go even farther with that. But then there were other people who were sentenced for various crimes, for breaking and entering, for violence, against, against police officer. We had a wide array of crimes in this January 6th with these January 6th defendants, and everybody has essentially been pardoned or commuted.
- [31:01]
Krystal Ball
One of the things I'm always curious about, Shelby, is how these things happen. And with Trump, we know that there are always various side characters and pressures and other things happening. Since you wrote the story about this, what's your assessment? Like the activists and others who've been involved, I know of some people, like Julie Kelly and Lara Logan, for example, who really made this into a cause over the last couple of years. Was it their media pressure? Was it lawmakers? Just talk to us about that.
- [31:28]
J.D. Vance
I don't think it was media pressure because the vast majority of the media was covering this really from one side of things. I think it was this. You have to remember also, Cash Patel, who is very close to Donald Trump and going to be presumably in his administration, was also involved in this. He had a sort of. I think it was a nonprofit where he raised money for some of the January 6th defendants. When I spoke to him about this last year, he said that it was on a case by case basis and that none of the money was going to violent offenders. I didn't get any details about what that those investigations looked like to determine who got the money or not. But he's been involved. And so these were people really close to Donald Trump. And so what happened was these outside figures, like Julie Kelly, like the lawyers for the January six defendants, started petitioning these folks. And then these folks who were in Donald Trump's orbit helped bring them into Mar A Lago and helped have events. Donald Trump had events for January 6th defendants at Mar a Lago over the past two years. And it sort of all was a slow leak towards the big boss, Donald Trump. And eventually, as he sat down and talked with these folks, he was convinced, as Donald Trump often does.
- [32:42]
Sagar Enjeti
Right.
- [32:42]
J.D. Vance
He talks to people all the time. He always wants people's advice. And I think over the past two years, the other thing to note is a lot of people in Donald Trump's orbit as these defendants continued to get charged and as Donald Trump himself was facing legal issues, all of that affected his decision and how he ultimately became, you know, a January 6th supporter of these defendants. He saw what the January 6th defendants were going through and said, I'm going through the same thing.
- [33:15]
Krystal Ball
That makes sense.
- [33:16]
Sagar Enjeti
I think it's worth remembering, you know, on the day of January 6th and in the immediate aftermath, aftermath, there was almost universal horror, both at sort of conservative media outlets. Places like Fox News were horrified. Many Republicans in the immediate aftermath, Republican elected officials were horrified. The public continues to be horrified. Taking this action is tremendously unpopular. So talk to us about the kind of what it says about the Republican Party and how it's moved over this past number of years that now, I mean, I don't know, maybe I'll be wrong, but I don't expect anybody really to pipe up and be like, this is wrong. They assaulted police officers on the Republican side, like, he shouldn't have done this. They're just gonna go along with it at this point, which is tremendously different from the immediate reaction in the aftermath of that day.
- [34:09]
J.D. Vance
I think it shows that Donald Trump is fully in charge of the Republican Party. And I've, to be clear, heard from a lot of folks, folks who are close to Donald Trump, who were a little bit unsettled by this decision. But will they come out and say it publicly? Probably not, because their feeling is Donald Trump is in charge and this is what he has decided. But I know a lot of people in the Republican Party are a little bit uncomfortable by this. I think that they would have been far more comfortable if it had been done by a case by case basis and if those individuals who did do more violent crimes were not released.
- [34:46]
Sagar Enjeti
And Shelby, what do you think it says about this Trump administration coming in too, that as you pointed out just weeks ago, his own vice president was like, well, of course the violent ones should be in prison and deserve to serve time. And now here we are weeks later, and it's like, nope, blanket, basically across the board, they're all, no problem, good to go. Seditious, conspiracy, beating a cop, doesn't matter, you're set free. What does it say about how he's approaching this four year term?
- [35:13]
J.D. Vance
He makes all the decisions. And I also think when Donald Trump comes to a decision on something, he takes the advice of a lot of people. But ultimately, everybody in his orbit has always told me, you can give Donald Trump all the advice you want, but at the end of the day, he makes the decision based on what he wants to do. And he'll take your advice oftentimes and he'll keep it in mind, but he is the ultimate decision maker. And I think this is also another example of pick your battles, right? Susie Wiles, for example, his chief of staff, has been in his orbit and survived in his orbit for a really long time when a lot of other people have not. And that is partially because she's learned when to pick her battle. So my thinking of this situation is his mind was so made up, probably in part because he himself had gone through all of these legal issues that he felt were unjust, that it was not worth that fight. And so that's how a lot of people in Donald Trump's orbit are looking at it as yeah, I don't love this, but it's just not worth the fight.
- [36:13]
Shelby Talcott
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- [36:56]
Jon Stewart
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- [37:04]
Lex Friedman
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- [38:05]
Jon Stewart
Jon Stewart is back at the Daily show and he's bringing his signature wit and insight straight to your ears with the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Dive into John's unique take on the biggest topics in politics, entertainment, sports and more. Joined by the sharp voices of the show's correspondents and contributors, and with extended interviews and exclusive weekly headline roundups, this podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else ready to laugh and stay informed. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [38:45]
Krystal Ball
Also, we wanted to talk to you about Doge and Vivek Ramaswamy. Guys, can we go ahead and put this up there on the screen? The news is out and it's official, 100%. Vivek Ramaswamy will be exiting Doge before it even really gets a chance to begin. They write everyone wants him out. How Musk helped boot Ramaswamy from Doge can you give us some of the backstory here on I know that I'd heard this probably same to use tension in Mar? A Lago, et cetera. Not sure I realized the extent to which Elon Musk had turned on Vivek actually even earlier and prior to his tweet about American culture. So what do you first give us some of the backstory and then give us some of what you think about what it portends for the future Trump administration.
- [39:27]
J.D. Vance
There's a lot of stories going around, right? You hear from Vivek Ramaswamy allies who say no, no, this is all just because he wants to run for governor. Probably a little bit of it. But certainly there were tensions that I think none of us really realized. And I think it came down to from what I've been told by some people, another version of the story is that there wasn't enough work being done by Vivek and that that H1B visa debate where he came out and supported it and kind of trashed American culture was another big reason, sort of the nail in the coffin to, to get rid of him. But there are a lot of stories going around. Some people have said that he was annoying Donald Trump in addition to Elon Musk. But ultimately the run for governor, the impending run for governor sort of gave them an easy out to I think push him out sooner. Because I know as recently as last week I was talking to people close to Vivek who were telling me yes, his plan has always been all along Doge for nine months and then run for governor. And certainly it has not been nine months.
- [40:28]
Sagar Enjeti
So are we like he just was annoying? Like they just didn't like working with him. Is that basically what it came down to? And then they're like, oh, the saved by the bell thing, this is our ticket to, to push this guy on entirely.
- [40:38]
J.D. Vance
Yeah. I honestly have not heard anything, you know, any specific instance or a specific blow up fight. It was just from my understanding, a bunch of different small things Combined with.
- [40:51]
Sagar Enjeti
Some people, some people's personalities just don't work. Just don't work.
- [40:56]
J.D. Vance
Exactly.
- [40:57]
Krystal Ball
Wow, that is genuinely hilarious.
- [41:00]
J.D. Vance
With the new Donald Trump also signed an executive order, sort of solidifying DOGE within the US Government. Might have been difficult for Vivek Ramaswamy to do that while also running for Ohio governor.
- [41:11]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that. So the executive order people are flagging. All it really did was change what, the digital.
- [41:20]
Krystal Ball
The IT Service department.
- [41:21]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, there was some already existing digital modernization thing that was created actually by Obama and they're like, we're just renaming this doge. And so. So the way the executive order is written at least doesn't have this broad reaching slash regulations and cut personnel and do all of these things. The executive order is pretty narrowly focused on it, which some are saying, well, that would be a great way for you to give yourself and your friends a lot of tech contracts. But what is your reading of the specifics of that executive order and whether that has any bearing on what the ultimate mandate of DOGE is going to be?
- [42:01]
J.D. Vance
So, from my understanding, the DOGE will get a White House office with about 20 people and then each agency, this executive order directs each agency to implement sort of their own DOGE team. And so that is sort of how they're going to go about it. But you're right, a lot of it is directed on, you know, boosting the technology capabilities, which we already have. So, you know, I don't think we know the answer of how effective it's going to be. And the other question that I have that I don't have the answer to is with these teams, with these interagency teams, is there also going to be an out of agency overarching team that sort of oversees all of it and directs each agency into, here's what we want you to do for the agency, here's how much money we want you to cut. Or is it going to be up to each individual team to try to get a combined $1 trillion?
- [42:58]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, very, very important.
- [43:00]
Sagar Enjeti
Are you seeing any? There's been a lot of speculation, like, oh, Trump is certainly at some point going to fall out with Elon Musk and be upset that he's stealing the spotlight, blah, blah. I don't really see any signs of it, but what do I know? I'm like totally on the outside. Have there been any indications of that? As best as you can tell, Shelby.
- [43:15]
J.D. Vance
I haven't seen it. And again, when I ask people about this, there have been people in Trump's Orbit who are close to Trump, who don't love of Elon Musk. Right. Steve Bannon, for example, has not made it a secret that he has issues with Elon Musk, but Elon Musk has a lot of money, and Donald Trump likes people who have a lot of money. And so Elon Musk also really helped Donald Trump win the election. And so for now, especially with Donald Trump in office, I think actually that helps because it was one thing to be at Mar A Lago, where Elon Musk, even though Mar A Lago is a private club, could get in pretty easily and be very close to Donald Trump day in and day out. Once he's in the Oval Office, it's gonna be more difficult. And I think that helps Elon Musk because he won't be around every single day.
- [44:00]
Sagar Enjeti
Interesting.
- [44:01]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, that is a really good point. Well. Oh, sorry.
- [44:04]
Sagar Enjeti
Oh, well. Before I let you go, Shelby, I had to pick your brain on tennis. If you had any time to watch the Australian Open this week. For people who don't know, Shelby was a pro tennis player, which is crazy.
- [44:15]
Krystal Ball
I didn't even.
- [44:16]
Sagar Enjeti
Unbelievably impressive.
- [44:17]
Krystal Ball
I've known you for eight years.
- [44:18]
Sagar Enjeti
I don't even know that I'm in awe of that. But have you got any time to watch? There have been some incredible matches. I saw Djokovic took on Alcaraz early this morning or last night or something like that.
- [44:28]
J.D. Vance
Yeah, I'm a big Djokovic fan. Are you? I have not gotten to watch a ton of tennis because I've been so busy, but my mom watches it nonstop, so I always hear about it from her, and she was text me as if I have it on, you know, the screen 24 hours and him watching it. But I know a lot of the girls who. Who were competing in it, so I also see it, like, on my Instagram. But I have your favorite.
- [44:50]
Sagar Enjeti
Who do you cheer for? Female tennis player. Who's your favorite?
- [44:55]
J.D. Vance
You know, I haven't watched it. I haven't really been in tune for a few years. Going on are like the oldies from, like, you know, eight or 10 years ago.
- [45:04]
Sagar Enjeti
So, like, the Rena.
- [45:07]
J.D. Vance
I took a break. I was like, a little. I was a little washed up. I needed. I needed a break from it. So I relate to that.
- [45:14]
Sagar Enjeti
I relate to that. I relate to that. Having. I didn't. I never achieved the athletic prowess that you did. But being a former swimmer and people are like, oh, do you still swim? Nope. Not unless I'm just, like, you know, hanging out lounging, whatever. So Shelby, in any case, you're a pro and a star reporter that we always appreciate. So thank you so much for helping shed some light on these early actions in the Trump administration.
- [45:38]
Krystal Ball
Thank you Shelby. We appreciate it.
- [45:39]
J.D. Vance
Anytime.
- [45:42]
Shelby Talcott
This new year I want to spend more time with my family, get healthier and make sure my finances are in order. That includes includes finally securing life insurance my friend recommended Select Quote They've helped more than 2 million people find coverage in the last 40 years. In 15 minutes, a licensed insurance agent found me a $500,000 policy for only $16 a month and my husband got a $500,000 policy for ONLY $18 a month. Plus we qualified for same day life insurance, no medical exam required and we recovered by the time we hung up with Select Quote Even if you have a health concern, be it high blood pressure, diabetes, even heart disease, their experienced agents can find you the right life insurance policy at the lowest price. Make life insurance the first resolution you check off your list this year.
- [46:25]
Jon Stewart
Go to selectquote.com for your free quote. That's selectquote.com selectquote.com details on example rate@selectquote.com.
- [46:34]
Lex Friedman
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- [47:34]
Jon Stewart
Catch Jon Stewart back in action on the Daily show and in your ears with the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. From his hilarious satirical takes on today's politics and entertainment to the unique voices of correspondents and contributors, it's your perfect companion to stay on top of what's happening now. Plus, you'll get special content just for podcast listeners like In Depth Interviews and a roundup of the week's top headlines. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [48:09]
Sagar Enjeti
So we wanted to talk a little bit about the latest with regard to this, what I think we can now pretty clearly call a temporary ceasefire in Gaza, which went into effect shortly before Trump took office. Mack, let's go ahead and pull up just so people can see as now Palestinians in Gaza are starting to return home. We're getting more and more images of some of the devastation here. Mack, if you can pull up the Gaza devastation and also this image of Chibalia that we have here in the rundown. You know, I mean, the level of destruction is just nearly complete, especially in northern Gaza. It's absolutely insane what it looks like. You can see. It's just. I don't even know what that is. That looks like an ambulance at one point. You can see images of vehicles, trucks that are crushed, rubble everywhere. People have been reporting that as they've been returning to their destroyed homes, horrific reports of relatives remains that they're finding in some instances with sniper wounds having been shot in the head. There have been some breaches, by the way, too, already of the ceasefire by the Israelis in the Gaza Strip. So it has been largely calm, but not 100% calm. And then Trump actually was asked yesterday if we can prepare the Trump ceasefire sot. Trump was actually asked yesterday, in the context of signing all of these executive orders, how confident he was that they would be able to maintain the calm in Gaza. Let's go ahead when you guys are ready for that and take a listen to that. How then are you, Mr. President, that you can keep the ceasefire in Gaza and conclude the three phases of this deal?
- [49:53]
Donald Trump
I'm not confident. That's not our war, it's their war, but I'm not confident. But I think they're very weakened on the other side.
- [50:00]
Sagar Enjeti
These questions.
- [50:01]
Donald Trump
Gaza, boy, I looked at a picture of Gaza. Gaza is like a massive demolition site. That place is. It's really got to be rebuilt in a different way.
- [50:13]
Sagar Enjeti
New mental health, rebuilding Gaza.
- [50:15]
Donald Trump
My mind, you know, Gaza is interesting. It's a phenomenal location on the sea, the best weather, you know, everything's good. It's like some beautiful things could be done with it, but it's very interesting, but some fantastic things could be done with Gaza.
- [50:35]
Sagar Enjeti
How do you see the future in governance for Gaza?
- [50:39]
Donald Trump
Well, it depends. I can't imagine you could have. You certainly can't have. The people that were there, most of them are dead.
- [50:46]
Sagar Enjeti
So he says there he's not confident at all that this will continue. And, you know, Sagrarth is, of course, comports with some of what Bibi Netanyahu has been saying as well, and Bezaleel Smotrich. So I think Shail, when we had him on, laid it out pretty clearly that basically, as part of Bibi's coalition, he had Ben gvir, who has now actually exited the coalition because he's upset about this deal. And he has Smotrich. Smotrich extracted a promise. I mean, I don't know that Bibi was really opposed to this, but that they would go back to the war once phase one was complete. And this has now been reported by many Israeli sources. Bibi himself came out and said effectively the same thing. He said that he got promises both from Biden and from Trump, that they would be able to return to the war after phase one was complete. And so when you see Trump here, two of his executive actions too, by the way, and I'll get to that in just a moment, had to do with Israel. But when you see him here, honestly, just like, yeah, whatever, I'm not confident it's going to continue. Not seeming to really care whether it continues or not. I think it's a very negative indication of where this is potentially heading.
- [51:56]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, I mean, look, I mean, I think I was modestly optimistic that something would happen because I thought that the Israeli government might fall, not because of what pressure would happen on the Trump side. And I don't know, maybe I still am an idiot, but, I mean, Israelis, do you really wanna keep this shit going? Like, you're losing a lot of money. 500 soldiers were killed as a result of the same ceasefire being on the table. I mean, I know Bibi, the government may not care about the hostages, but I know all of you care about the hostages. There's still a lot of hostages who are being left. Like, you know, is this really the course of action that you want to take? We've had a resurgence and. Or recruitment of a number of Hamas people. If you want to continue the war, this will take. I mean, how long has it been since October 7th? It's been almost 18 months. Right. So if you think about it in Iraq context, we're roughly in the 05 mark. And, like, guess what happened to somebody else's country when they fought a similar type war in 05? It was a nightmare. It was a nightmare for years going forward. That's effectively what you were committing yourself to. So maybe I'm dumb. I just think that I still have modest confidence there's some democratic input or something going on in that country. I have no idea.
- [53:08]
Sagar Enjeti
Look, on the Americas side, I think what they would say, obviously, I wildly disagree with this, but what they would say is, it's sort of analogous to when we withdrew from Afghanistan. Then you have to reckon with this. What did we do all these years? Right? The Taliban is just right back in power. Like, what were we doing all. What did we spend all this money for? What did we lose all these lives for? What did we destroy this entire country? Like, what were we doing? And it's a similar thing here. Like, already, you know, Hamas is out in the streets and they're happy that the ceasefire is in place and there is no other. Because, you know, the Israelis weren't interested actually, in some sort of, like, peaceful solution, and that would lead to a better governance. Bibi has always enjoyed the fact that Hamas was in power in Gaza, so he could point to them and say, I don't have a partner for peace. Those dynamics haven't changed. And so they don't want to have a reckoning with the fact that, yes, they killed a lot of civilians, yes, Gaza is rubble, yes, they have inflicted mass pain, suffering, starvation, illness, death, et cetera, but you did not destroy him, Hamas. And so I think there's a desire to not reckon with that reality that pushes not all, but a large part of Israeli society towards, no, we just need to keep killing more. We just need to keep this war going. And certainly within Bibi's coalition, that's the majority, I would say sentiment is in that direction. So, again, there's. There was some hope that maybe this would be important to Trump because he would think it would be embarrassing if they just went back to the fighting. But certainly the indications from that side are he's just like, yeah, it's their war, whatever. I don't think it'll really hold, but we'll see.
- [54:56]
Krystal Ball
I think you're right. I mean, look, let's also be honest. Trump is the most pro Israel president to literally ever take office. Not in terms of his background, but in terms of the concrete promises he.
- [55:06]
Sagar Enjeti
Made and the people he's put in place.
- [55:08]
Krystal Ball
Yeah.
- [55:09]
Sagar Enjeti
Miriam Adelson was sitting right there at the inauguration.
- [55:12]
Krystal Ball
As you said, I've tried to prepare people for reality. The reality is Israel is going to annex the west bank, okay? Get over it. And if you were with Trump, like, that's just part of the things you're gonna have to think if you care a lot about it. You shouldn't have voted for him. I don't know what to tell you. If you didn't want, if you want him to cut weapons off to Israel, it will never happen in the current political context. The issue has become totally polarized, left and right. There is zero. What reward mechanism in the Republican Party for. Why would you do it? You know, I mean, I can't. You don't even wanna know. Maybe one day I'll tell everybody the stories here about what even my modest commentary, I would think maybe you would disagree on the Israel issue has cost me in terms of my personal life, in terms of ties cut, et cetera and bullshit smears, you know, being pushed behind the scenes. Yeah, I should do it one day. But my point is just like that's. And I'm an idiot. I'm nobody, just a commentator over here. Now imagine being in power, somebody who's a congressman or a senator. Their roar mechanism doesn't exist. Here's again the truth. Israel will never be cut off. What really happens is up to them. They will annex the West Bank. Our ambassador to Israel, Mike Huckabee, said he doesn't believe in a two state solution, which basically means that's US government policy. The best thing that you should all hope for if you're pro Palestine or anti war, whatever is you should hope that the chaos over there is so out of control and so affects domestic politics and, or energy prices here at home, that they'll do something about it. Which is the main impetus, right. For a lot of this is he loves the peacemaker, the image, he doesn't care about the issue, by the way, who cares how we get it done? And you know, I gave advice to people, send the people Gaza MAGA hats, like if you really want this to happen, like you need to make it politically convenient, interesting for Trump to posture. Like, for example, remember that article that we put up on our show, Arab Officials from the Times of Israel? Trump pressured Netanyahu more in one meeting than anyone else. Guess what? He posted that on his Truth Social. Cuz all he cares about is his own ego. Apparently the Israelis are now attacking Steve Witkoff. They've been leaking and being like he's a Qatari owned asset or what The Las Vegas Jewish billionaires, of course, a Qatari owned asset, they hate it because he pressured them to take this ceasefire deal. So stuff like that, if you get it to Trump, he's an egotistical person. So to the extent that if you guys all want to play the game, that's the Only way this is all going to happen.
- [57:40]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, but even that, like, I mean, Hegseth and Huckbee are both end times, like zealots, you know, the administration has already been staffed in the way that Miriam Adelson wanted it to be staffed.
- [57:54]
Krystal Ball
That's true.
- [57:54]
Sagar Enjeti
And so, you know, to your point about the west bank, which I will not personally be getting over, but I know what you're saying, just like that's the reality.
- [58:02]
Krystal Ball
You didn't vote for Trump. I'm saying, look, I'm being totally honest. I had to reconcile myself to this. I'm like, all right, this is, look, we have two choices. It's binary, it's not easy. What do we choose? We choose probably in the same way that you used to think about Biden before Gaza. You're like, I like the IRA tax credits, I like Lina Khan. Right. You're like, at the end of the day, look, I mean, people know my, my worldview. I don't give a shit about most other countries. I mostly care about what's happening here. To the extent I care about what's happening abroad is to the extent that it's affecting us here at home. That's probably the decision I had to make. That's probably millions of people had to make that type of decision. And I don't begrudge people.
- [58:35]
Sagar Enjeti
Well, I, but I do think that there was a lot of like, fake wish casting about that was not like campaign. No, I know, but I'm just saying, like, you may have been in touch with that reality, but I think there were many people who weren't and honestly aren't still. But I mentioned two executive orders from Trump relevant to Israel. One of them was, I mentioned before Biden had put in place. I mean, it's just, it's like the most tiny slap on the wrist sort of thing that Biden could have done, but sanctioning some of the, the violent settlers, pretending like they're not fully backed by the Israeli government. But in any case, there were some like 33 individuals who were sanctioned through these methods. Trump rolled that back and he also rolled back some limitations that had been put in place on shipping 2,000 pound bombs, which I didn't even know there were any limitations on any arms shipments from the Biden administration. But in any case, that's a supply thing.
- [59:30]
Krystal Ball
It's not because of morality.
- [59:31]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah.
- [59:31]
Krystal Ball
It's to keep them for ourselves. That's the reason.
- [59:34]
Sagar Enjeti
So in any case, those restrictions have been lifted under Trump as well. Just to give you a sense of where Things are headed. And then, in addition to, I think very likely after phase one, bombings continue in Gaza and they go right back to the fight. The west bank is under increasing attack. I can put this up on the screen. Jeremy Scahill and drop Site News and our own Ryan Grim have course been doing a great job of covering what's going on there. One thing that they did is they announced, announced this quote, unquote counterterror operation in the occupied West Bank. They shut down all kinds of roads. I mean, Palestinian movement in the west bank is already extremely limited, and now it's even more so. And then you have settlers that have just been violently rampaging in a number of Palestinian villages, in some instances overtly backed by Israeli forces that are now, as Jeremy reports, invading and attacking parts of Jenin. I mean, in addition, there was actually an incident where settlers were setting fires and attacking this village. And Israeli police thought the settlers were Palestinians and shot them. And now this is like, this is a big story in Israel because it turned out, whoops, they weren't Palestinians who we don't care about killing. They were actually settlers, Jewish settlers. So there's, you know, this is sort of an explicit, explicit plan that, all right, while we're having this calm in Gaza temporarily, we're going to move on the West Bank. This will be also a pretext that's used in addition to return to the war as well. So that's the latest that we have coming out of the Middle east and none of it is particularly good news.
- [61:19]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, look, my only optimism for a ceasefire for any of this was the at least credit. By the way, another reason way that you would want this to happen is you should have the Nobel foundation, the Nobel Peace Prize. They should come out and do that immediately to give him more of an incentive. People think I'm kidding. I'm not kidding. If you guys are Washington, if you look, you could care about one thing, you could care about posturing, or you can care about getting shit done. I can guarantee you the people who would be alive from influencing Donald Trump, they don't care how you accomplish this. So if you are the Irish government or any of these other people who are taking a little bit above dissonance policy or whatever towards Israel, that's how you should get it done. That's the only way is you have to fed him, you have to feed his ego. That's how it's gonna work. By the way, I'm already prepping for myself on Ukraine just to give people the background. Like there is A Titanic fight behind the scenes going on right now over Ukraine. Because you have people like Mike Waltz and others who have completely different historical past on the Ukraine issue and are willing to come along, but they're not gonna do the work. Right. Some of the people who are actually gonna be in charge of this policy, Keith Kellogg and a few others, are true believers, but you have to work your way through the bureaucracy to get that up. And then when I turn on Fox and Friends, the dumbest program on cable television which Donald Trump watches every day is Brian Kilmeade, who is a Ukraine fanatic, Right?
- [62:46]
Sagar Enjeti
He still is. Absolutely.
- [62:47]
Krystal Ball
I mean, he's not gonna say it anymore, but I'm. Listen, some of us haven't forgotten their ideology. Brian, Some of us have not forgotten he's an old school neocon Republican. He's worked at fox news for 20 years and he's a brain lobotom.
- [62:59]
Sagar Enjeti
Just stopped calling themselves neocons, but did not change their ideology even a sliver. They just realize that the term has a negative connotation now. So they're, oh, I'm not that, but I totally support every war that's ever existed.
- [63:13]
Krystal Ball
Right. So that's the thing about. But my point is about the media environment, right? So the media environment that Trump needs to consume is one which actually has some dissonance in, in it now that's helped a little bit because of Tucker being no longer at Fox News and he's in his ear on Ukraine and on Iran and a few other things that he can do, but he's just one man. I mean, you can't ultimately, you know, truly affect everything through just being on the Internet. We're dealing with a, what, 79 year old man here at the end of the day. So yeah, look, I'm being very transparent. Like that's the one thing I'm gonna peg myself to, is trying to end this war. I think it will be be one of the biggest fights in the history of Washington because Afghanistan is nothing compared to the cash cow and the ideology around this. Like, remember, you know how Biden worshiped at the feet of NATO? Like that's a real thing here. Like people, the Atlantic Council, the Carnegie.
- [64:10]
Sagar Enjeti
Every Aukus voter is here within a.
- [64:12]
Krystal Ball
10 mile radius that these people religiously pray to the God of nations. There are people in my neighborhood who have NATO flags. Where do you even get a NATO flag? It's unbelievable.
- [64:23]
Sagar Enjeti
I mean, it's still like Cold War hangover.
- [64:25]
Krystal Ball
It's crazy.
- [64:26]
Sagar Enjeti
It is wild how much that still really dominates the Foreign policy blob in this town. I mean, I took very close note, maybe in some of the later speeches in the day, Trump brought up Ukraine, but considering how much a focus it was among Republicans, how much of. I mean, he talked a lot about it on the campaign trail.
- [64:45]
Krystal Ball
Tons.
- [64:46]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, I think partly he didn't really bring it up because I mean, he repeatedly promised, it's gonna be solved before I even get into office. Day one, we're gonna have a deal. Obviously that didn't happen. So I think it's an acknowledgement that even if he wants to end it, it's not like you can just, this isn't one Israel. You could actually just snap your fingers and be like, we're not supplying you these weapons anymore. You're gonna stop. We're not doing this. You could actually do that with Israel, Ukraine and Russia. It is a little different because you have to, you got to get the Russians to the table, you got the Ukrainians to the table, you got to, you know, I mean, obviously there's a lot we could do, but it's not as simple of a fix. And it does require like real ideological consistency of a sort that Donald Trump is frankly not particularly known for. And he has a soft spot for Zelensky too. And he's always like Zelensky.
- [65:35]
Krystal Ball
So that's another thing. I highly encourage people. Lex Friedman, in his latest podcast did a breakdown of his Zelenskyy interview. And I don't think he would mind saying this. I spent a lot of time with him this weekend, cuz he said it publicly. So I'll just repeat what he said, what he was telling me and what he also said publicly was his big takeaway from his Zelenskyy interview was it's not a show. He believes it and he does not care about peace. He has no interest in peace. So Lex asked multiple iterations of peace questions to Zelensky. Zelensky has drank his own Kool Aid to the extent that he believes he is. Like when Winston Churchill. And the policy which will require to force a political settlement on Zelenskyy, which is now the only option to achieve peace in Ukraine is either we'd have to support a coup in Ukraine, which I don't think is a good idea, or I mean, maybe they could have their own elections. That's up to. Zelensky's not gonna allow that to happen. We have. There's. The only option here, basically is a return to some like, you know, treaties from the 1800s where, where Trump and Putin will Sit across a desk from each other and just be like, here's the line of control. That's it. And then you go to the Ukraine and be like, this is what's happening. And I mean, as you know, and we were just discussing, do you know, the political fallout from the freakout of the media here in Washington of forcing a political settlement on Tim. I don't think Zelensky will ever play ball based on what Lex told me. I could be wrong. I mean, at the end of the day, he's a client state. Right. He'd rather be alive than being, you know, like, be defeated and humiliated on the battle. But equally, Trump would want to avoid that at all costs. Because, look, even if Ukraine got taken over, I mean, I still wouldn't think it would be worth going to nuclear war for it over. But as we all learned from Afghanistan, if you broadcast cities, Kyiv 24 7, and turn this into a cause celeb, it can go like this in public opinion. Public opinion is still not, in my opinion, great on Ukraine. I mean, it's still number three issue that people rate Biden, Biden's effectiveness on it. There's a boomer mentality about Russia that lives deep in the American mind.
- [67:37]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, I mean, it was really sold as, like, a values proposition. And I think a lot of people, and I mean, there. And there is a value proposition there. Like, that's not, like, our country doesn't have really the credibility to frame it as a values proposition. But this idea of, like, no, we have this established order that you don't get to just push your weight around because you're the larger country. Like. Like Russia invading Ukraine was genuinely bad and wrong. But then you have to ask, like, okay, given where we are, what is the best and most reasonable path forward? And the Ukrainians would have gotten a much better deal if, instead of being interested in continuing this war, if we had been interested in negotiating a peaceful settlement. And that was really the massive missed opportunity. So many lives, so much destruction between then and now, only for Ukraine to be in a worst position. Worst position in terms of what they're going to end up getting here at the end of the day, whenever this thing burns out. So I don't know if I read the media landscape the same way you do, because I feel like there's a lot of Ukraine fatigue and also just less willingness to resist Trump's edict in any particular direction.
- [68:48]
Krystal Ball
Jake Tapper literally wrote a book.
- [68:50]
Sagar Enjeti
No, I expected the Afghanistan withdrawal reaction. I definitely expected that. But. But with regards to Ukraine I don't know. I think there is an increasing mainstream media acknowledgement that Ukrainians are not winning, that it's gonna be impossible for them to get all of their territory back. And something is going to have to be figured out.
- [69:10]
Krystal Ball
Nobody would like that more than me. Whether it actually happens, I don't know. I still think that these people have religious connections to Ukraine. They think kyiv is the 51st state. It's crazy. Like, you know, the way that they think about the issue. And if there were ever, like, if there was ever, like, real Afghanistan type images that came out, I do think it actually would cause a big problem for Trump. And at the end, like, what is my theme of all my commentary here with Trump? Trump is a transactional figure and easily influenced.
- [69:43]
Sagar Enjeti
The Afghanistan example is destructive because he knew it was popular in theory to get out of Afghanistan. But there's a reason why he didn't pull the trigger. Because when you end a war, guess what? Then you have to actually grapple with the reality of what was accomplished and failed and all of those things over those years. And so it wouldn't be quite the same event as Afghanistan because obviously we didn't have troops directly there. It was a shorter time period, et cetera. But Biden, he was quite popular. Biden was, up until the Afghan withdrawal, nuked him, and it did nuke him, and he never recovered. And obviously there were other things that contributed to that negative sentiment towards him. But that really was kind of the beginning of the end of his presidency, unfortunately, because it's one of the best things that he actually did and one of the more courageous things that he actually did. But nothing will form a bipartisan consensus faster than trying to not be in a war. They will unite against you. FOX and CNN and msnbc, man, they will all be singing the exact same tune the minute that you try to exit or avo.
- [70:48]
Krystal Ball
Absolutely.
- [70:48]
Sagar Enjeti
A potential war. And, yeah, I do think that Trump is quite aware of that.
- [71:06]
Jon Stewart
Jon Stewart is back at the Daily show, and he's bringing his signature wit and insight straight to your ears with the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast Podcast. Dive into John's unique take on the biggest topics in politics, entertainment, sports, and more. Joined by the sharp voices of the show's correspondence and contributors, and with extended interviews and exclusive weekly headline roundups, this podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else. Ready to laugh and stay informed, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [71:39]
Krystal Ball
First.
- [71:43]
Adnan Virk
What'S up, everybody? Ad Nan Ver here to tell you about a new podcast. It's NHL Unscripted with Virkin Demers, Jason Demers here.
- [71:50]
Jason Demers
And after playing 700 NHL games, I got a lot of dirty laundry to air out.
- [71:54]
Adnan Virk
Hey, I got a lot to say here, too.
- [71:55]
Krystal Ball
Okay?
- [71:56]
Adnan Virk
Each week we'll get together, chat about the sport that we love.
- [71:58]
Jason Demers
Tons of guests are going to join in, too. But we're not just going to be talking hockey, folks. We're talking movies, we're talking tv, food, and and Nat's favorite wrestling. It's all on le table.
- [72:08]
Adnan Virk
Listen to NHL Unscripted with Virk and demers, the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [72:16]
Tisha Allen
You are cordially invited to the hottest party in professional sports. I'm Tisha Allen, former golf professional and the host of welcome to the Party, your newest obsession about the wonderful world that is women's golf. Featuring interviews with top players on tour, tips to help improve your swing, and the craziest stories to come out of your friendly neighborhood country club. Welcome to the Party with Tisha Allen is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Listen to welcome to the Party that's P A R T E e on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.