12/17/24: Eyewitness UFO Reports, Ro Khanna Debunks Dem Election Cope, CNN Admits Syria Viral Hoax

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar – Episode Summary (12/17/24)

Release Date: December 17, 2024

Hosts: Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti
Guest: Rich McHugh (Investigative Correspondent for News Nation)
Featured Guest: Congressman Ro Khanna

---

1. Drone Sightings in New Jersey

Discussion Begins at 04:00

Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti delve into the alarming reports of unidentified drones flying over New Jersey ports. The conversation kicks off with President-Elect Donald Trump's allegations of a massive government cover-up regarding these drone activities.

Notable Quotes:

• Donald Trump ([04:17]): "The government knows what is happening... If it was the enemy, they'd blast it out."
• Chris Christie ([07:43]): "I think this is what happens in our society now... If you don't fill that vacuum then all the conspiracy theories get filled in there."

Key Points:

• Trump's Claims: Trump asserts that the government and military are aware of the drone activities but are withholding information from the public, leading to speculation and mistrust.

• Federal Response: Department of Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas downplays the threat, attributing sightings to commercial, hobbyist drones, or misidentifications like stars and planes. However, local officials like former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie contest these explanations, citing personal eyewitness accounts and inconsistencies in federal statements.

• Local Government's Stance: Sheriffs from Ocean and Monmouth counties express frustration over the lack of clear communication from federal authorities. They report numerous drone sightings and advocate for stricter regulations to track and identify drone operators.

Timestamped Insight:

• Krystal Ball ([07:01]): "They continue to be very evasive in their answers and obviously the sightings continue and the questions remain."

2. Interview with Rich McHugh on Drone Investigations

Guest Joins at 13:52

Rich McHugh shares his on-the-ground reporting from New Jersey, providing a nuanced perspective on the drone sightings.

Notable Quotes:

• Rich McHugh ([14:15]): "Normally, you don't see stuff around here... It looks like a mix between helicopters and something else because they were flying so low."
• Sean Golden, Sheriff of Monmouth County ([07:41] via McHugh): "They can't tell me anything... This is the first time that I've noticed drones over my house."

Key Points:

• Personal Observations: McHugh recounts multiple sightings of drones that behave unusually, such as lacking heat signatures and flying at low altitudes, making traditional identification difficult.

• Expert Opinions: Interviews with a former CIA drone specialist and a military-trained commercial pilot yield conflicting assessments—one suggesting drones, the other attributing sightings to planes.

• Government Disconnect: McHugh highlights a significant gap between federal messages and local realities, emphasizing that if foreign adversaries were involved, more decisive action would likely ensue.

Timestamped Insight:

• Krystal Ball ([12:22]): "The dispatches come from military installations... they're saying things that don't align with what local officials are experiencing."

3. CNN's Admission of Syrian Prisoner Report Hoax

Discussion Initiates at 40:46

Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti critique CNN's recent flawed reporting on the purported rescue of a Syrian prisoner, which has now been admitted as misleading.

Notable Quotes:

• Crystal ([43:20]): "Normal people are like, this is bullshit."
• Krystal Ball ([51:14]): "Clarissa Ward... allowed her ideology to blind her to the fact that she was being taken for a ride."

Key Points:

• Initial Report Flaws: CNN aired a segment featuring a man they claimed was a long-term prisoner in Damascus. Subsequent investigations revealed discrepancies in his identity and the duration of his imprisonment.

• Contradictory Evidence: Independent organizations like Assyrian Fact-Check debunked CNN's claims, identifying the individual as a former Assad regime intelligence officer who was imprisoned for less than a month, contradicting the story of prolonged detention and mistreatment.

• Journalistic Integrity Concerns: The hosts express frustration over CNN's failure to verify facts before broadcasting, likening it to past journalistic scandals like Dan Rather's fabricated reports. They emphasize the importance of independent media in holding powerful entities accountable.

Timestamped Insight:

• Crystal ([44:36]): "He was in prison less than a month ago... So this raises all kinds of questions and it's a total joke and terrible look for CNN."

4. Democratic Party Internal Struggles and Reforms

Segment with Ro Khanna Begins at 24:41

Congressman Ro Khanna discusses the internal dynamics of the Democratic Party, particularly focusing on the recent decision to block Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC) from becoming the ranking member of the House Oversight Committee.

Notable Quotes:

• Congressman Ro Khanna ([25:41]): "We have to get back to the FDR coalition on economic populism... We're gonna raise Americans wages, guarantee people healthcare..."
• Krystal Ball ([33:19]): "Why isn't the Democratic Party saying, we're going to have a 50 state strategy..."

Key Points:

• AOC's Blocked Nomination: Despite her popularity and contributions, AOC was superseded by Jerry Connolly for the committee position, highlighting tensions between the party's progressive wing and establishment members.

• PAC Money Influence: Khanna criticizes the Democratic Party's reliance on PAC funding, arguing that it undermines grassroots initiatives and perpetuates a cycle where fundraising prowess trumps policy advocacy.

• Proposed Reforms: Recommendations include banning super PAC money within the Democratic primary process and focusing on economic reforms that resonate with the working class, such as wage increases and healthcare guarantees.

• Party's Future Strategy: Khanna advocates for a "new economic deal" inspired by FDR's policies, emphasizing the need for a coalition that includes business and labor leaders to drive economic renewal and regain voter trust.

Timestamped Insight:

• Khanna ([31:58]): "The DNC should make some very basic commitments. No super PAC money in Democratic primaries."

5. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Closing Remarks Around 55:00

The episode wraps up with the hosts reiterating the importance of independent media and political accountability. They reflect on past journalistic failures and the need for media to remain vigilant against propaganda and misinformation.

Key Takeaways:

• Media Accountability: Emphasizing the role of independent journalists in uncovering the truth, the hosts call for greater scrutiny of mainstream media outlets to prevent future misinformation.

• Political Reforms: Highlighting the necessity for the Democratic Party to reform its fundraising and candidate selection processes to build a more diverse and policy-focused leadership.

• Public Vigilance: Encouraging listeners to remain informed and critical of the information presented by powerful entities, be it government officials or major news networks.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Krystal Ball ([07:01]): "They continue to be very evasive in their answers and obviously the sightings continue and the questions remain."

• Rich McHugh ([14:15]): "Normally, you don't see stuff around here... It looks like a mix between helicopters and something else because they were flying so low."

• Crystal ([43:20]): "Normal people are like, this is bullshit."

• Congressman Ro Khanna ([31:58]): "The DNC should make some very basic commitments. No super PAC money in Democratic primaries."

• Krystal Ball ([51:14]): "Clarissa Ward... allowed her ideology to blind her to the fact that she was being taken for a ride."

---

Final Thoughts:

This episode of Breaking Points offers a critical examination of recent political and media developments. From unexplained drone activities potentially indicating governmental transparency issues to major media outlets like CNN grappling with their credibility, and the Democratic Party at a crossroads regarding internal reforms and fundraising practices, Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti provide insightful analysis and hold powerful institutions accountable. The inclusion of guests like Rich McHugh and Congressman Ro Khanna enriches the discourse, offering firsthand accounts and policy-oriented perspectives essential for understanding the complexities of today's political landscape.

Transcript

[Krystal Ball]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

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[Savannah Guthrie]

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[Crystal]

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[Hoda Kotb]

CT mobile.com hi everyone, it's Savannah Guthrie and Hoda Coffee from the Today Show. Nobody does the holidays like Today. From festive performances and great gift ideas to tips for the perfect holiday feast, join us every morning on NBC and make TODAY your home for the holidays.

[Rich McHugh]

The flavor, the tradition and the spirit of Carne Asada lives on at Del Taco. Join the Asada today with Del Taco's new limited time half pound Chipotle Carne Asada Steak Burrito packed with sweet, spicy and smoky flavor, wrapped up and grilled to perform perfection, the whole Carne Asada steak menu delivers the bold flavors you crave with epic burritos, loaded fries and street tacos starting at just 2.99 only at Del Taco.

[Crystal]

Hey guys, Sager and Crystal here.

[Krystal Ball]

Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.

[Crystal]

This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist and anywhere else.

[Krystal Ball]

So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

[Crystal]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see [e-mail] Good morning everybody. Happy Tuesday. Have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have? Crystal?

[Krystal Ball]

Indeed we do. Lots of interesting developments out there in the world. We are going to update you on the quote unquote drone situation in New Jersey and very excited to get to talk to Rich McHugh who is a fantastic journalist. We've actually known him for quite a while. He helped Ronan Farrow break the story about Harvey Weinstein. He is now over at News Nation and has been all over this drone story. He's probably done the best reporting on it. So he's going to join us for an update this morning. Really looking forward to that. We have Ro Khanna back in the studio to talk about the Democrats and whatever's going on with them. It looks like Pelosi was successful in blocking AOC from being chair of the Oversight Committee. There's a lot to talk to there. And Ro also had a fantastic op ed that we want to get his reaction to about money in politics and how Democrats can move on from their big donor era. We also have some updates for you on that very weird and very fake feeling. CNN Syria PRISONER rescue video. We now know the identity of this individual, although a lot of questions remain about just what the hell was going on there. So we'll break that down for you. We also have a deeply troubling story out of California. An open AI whistleblower was found dead. We will tell you what he was saying, what he was warning about and the circumstances surrounding his death. I'm taking a look at Bernie Sanders warning about American oligarchy. And Sager is talking about Japan.

[Crystal]

Yes.

[Krystal Ball]

What reflections on your trip. Give us a little preview.

[Crystal]

Just why it's the greatest country in the world, why it challenges all the foundational myths of the United States and what a real great society should look like and why we should aspire to be more like the Japanese and not the reverse.

[Krystal Ball]

Why do I have a feeling like I'm gonna disagree?

[Crystal]

You've never been. How would you know? You know, you know, it's one of those you have to see it to believe it. You have to understand and what it's like to feel absolute physical peace in a major metropolitan area, something basically impossible in the United States of America and basically the entire Western world. So perhaps it's what we can see from them. And if you're interested in the obesity crisis, safety, public safety, American innovation, theories of capitalism and they have like a.

[Krystal Ball]

Massive birth rate crisis. Isn't that like kind of a big problem over there?

[Crystal]

I think. You know what, as with all things throughout the centuries, they figured it out and I have faith in them. They should not listen to us. We should listen to them the other way around.

[Krystal Ball]

All right. Well, I will listen with an open mind and we shall see.

[Crystal]

It has universal healthcare. You should be happy about that. Okay, let's, shall we? We've got a little bit of an update here. President elect Donald Trump is alleging a massive government cover up. Let's take a listen. Can you comment on the drones that.

[Donald Trump]

Are flying around New Jersey ports?

[George Stephanopoulos]

It seems like the American people have a big dispute.

[Donald Trump]

The government knows what is happening. Look, our military knows where they took off from. If it's a garage, they can go right into that garage. They know where it came from and where it went. And for some reason they don't want to comment. And I think they'd be better off saying what it is our military knows and our President knows. And for some reason they want to keep people in suspense. I can't imagine it's the enemy because if it was the enemy, they'd blast it out. Even if they were late, they'd blast it. Something strange is going on. For some reason they don't want to tell the people and they should because the people are really, I mean, they happen to be over Bedminster.

[George Stephanopoulos]

Want to know the drone.

[Donald Trump]

They're very close to Bedminster. I think maybe I won't spend the weekend in Bedminster. I've decided to cancel my trip.

[Crystal]

Have you received an intelligence briefing on the drones?

[Donald Trump]

I don't want to comment on that.

[Crystal]

All right, so he doesn't want to comment on that.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, that was actually a good follow up from that report.

[Crystal]

That's a fantastic reporter.

[Krystal Ball]

Hey, you know, you get these intelligence briefings now you want to share anything with us, huh?

[Crystal]

No, I'm not going to comment on that exactly. Right now when he says a couple of things like we know where the drones took off, we know what they are, et cetera, but they don't want to know is he speaking from an informed position or not. Remember, as the President Elect of the United States, you get the full presidential daily briefing, the same one that Joe Biden would receive in the Oval Office. Could he be making stuff up maybe? I don't think so. He's probably just bullshitting on this one. I mean he's been specific about a couple of things. So recall the Ukraine casualty numbers. The Ukrainians freaked out about that by the way, because he was like, a million people have died. Meanwhile Zelenskyy's like, actually it's 75,000 people have been killed. It' maybe at a zero and it's somewhere near the accurate number. So he's talked about that, he's talked previously about some previous military things and others. So I actually think this one might be with the intro.

[Krystal Ball]

Well then he's part of the COVID up. If he knows the answer and he's just not telling us because he got an intelligence briefing then he's now, well.

[Crystal]

He'S not the President yet, so maybe he doesn't have the authority I know.

[Krystal Ball]

He really holds to those rules and norms of the presidential transition. Soccer, Come on.

[Crystal]

No idea. All right. All I'm saying is what I will say for that, I will take it seriously. Because he is the incoming president, he.

[Krystal Ball]

Is very skilled at, like, jumping on a public sentiment. And that's what I see in this. I kind of doubt that he got any special information in his briefing. Like I said, if he did, then. Okay, come out with it. Tell us what's going on. I think he's just like, sees this as a moment, sees this as a thing that's going on and as he is very skilled at doing, sort of jumps on it and positions. Positions himself in an advantageous way. That's. That's all I see going on here.

[Crystal]

Look, it definitely could be true. In fact, I kind of hope that's true because then he can get into office and he can tell us what's actually happening with it. But regardless, what we do know is that in New Jersey, people there are just fed up. The governor is fed up the state and local officials in terms of all the lies that are being propagated by the federal government. Just yesterday, we got another update on the lies from the White House, from the Department of Homeland Security. The Department of Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas has said there was absolutely nothing to worry about. Don't worry. And actually, Chris Christie, the former New Jersey governor. So clearly somebody at least with some authority spoke out against this. Let's take a listen.

[Donald Trump]

You're a New Jersey resident. Have you seen any drones?

[Chris Christie]

Yeah, two mornings ago over my house at 6:15 in the morning. Saw them myself, so did my wife. And so, yeah, they're there. And I've been traveling around New Jersey, as I normally do all week, and I can't tell you the number of people who've come up to me concerned about it and that is this a.

[Donald Trump]

Mass hysteria of some sort?

[Chris Christie]

Well, here's why, George. Because of answers like the secretary just gave. They're not answering the questions.

[Donald Trump]

Well, he said that. He said they're monitoring it, they haven't seen any unusual activity, and they need more authority.

[Chris Christie]

Let me say something. I agree that they need more authority, but to not say that this is not that, to say this is not unusual activity, it's just wrong. I lived in New Jersey my whole life. This is the first time that I've noticed drones over my house. And I was in a. In a restaurant in Monmouth county on Friday night, had people at the bar coming up to me and saying, governor Murphy won't tell me anything. The President won't tell me anything. Do you know like. Well I don't know but I will tell you this. I think this is what happens in our society now, George, when cuz we're used to having things so rapidly. If you don't fill that vacuum then all the conspiracy theories get filled in there. So you've got people like Congressman Jeff Van Drew saying there's an Iranian mothership off the coast of New Jersey. Absolutely not true.

[Crystal]

There you go. He's actually said it well, which is that in our current environment where you have videos going around, where you have multiple news reports. We're gonna talk to Rich just here in a little bit. He himself witnessed many of the drones. By the way, the drone situation has now gone across the entire country, actually even global Germany is now reporting drone problems. We talked about Wright Patterson Air Force Base which was just closed yesterday. The audio of that confirms their own fre out for what's happening. There have been multiple other incidents across the entire east coast. And yet despite this, the NSC spokesperson, John Kirby, let's put this up there on the screen, he says and continues to say oh all of these, just don't worry about it. It's commercial drones, it's hobby drones, it's law enforcement drones, it's planes, it's helicopters, it's stars that people have mistook for drones. Now look, is it true that some people have mistaken these? Absolutely. You know you had, what was it the governor, Larry Hogan, is that his name? Who mistook the stars for Dr. It's like okay, not spending a lot of time stargazing. It's planes or it's hobbyist drones. But you know, whenever it comes to the hobby, the commercial drones and others, it doesn't make any sense for them to be flying at night specifically because that's not how, first of all they're not allowed to. But also there's some various different ways to enforce that. In terms of the law enforcement drones. Well maybe, but you know, if you listen to the law enforcement people themselves, they say every time our drones get close to one of these so called drones, those drones are able to go away. They don't have any heat signature, they're able to quote unquote, go dark. As the, the governor said, planes. I mean as I said literally yesterday, it's very easy to say what is a plane and what's not. That's up in the sky. Any one of us can open a FlightAware or any of these other apps and look up immediately and identify what a plane is, its tail, its file, et cetera, for its route, where it's going. So their explanations just continue to not make any sense and they continue to obfuscate whatever the truth is. But the more that this continues, the more full blown coverup that it continues to look like.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, I mean, it's, they continue to be very evasive in their answers and obviously the sightings continue and the questions remain. So one thing that I had seen is what, New Jersey just like loosened up their policy allowing civilian drone usage. Yes, that's one sort of innocuous explanation that's been put out there.

[Crystal]

Yes.

[Krystal Ball]

So I mean, I do think that's part of what's going on is some of the things that people are seeing are like commercial aircraft and civilian drones and they just now are paying attention and this drone usage rule has been loosened up, whatever. But there have been enough people with some credibility and knowledge that have seen things that I'm convinced that's not the whole of what's going on.

[Crystal]

Exactly.

[Krystal Ball]

So with that being said, let's speak to one of those people who I consider to be quite credible, Rich McHugh, who's an incredible reporter and journalist, as I said before, and you know, it's done demonstrated a lot of, I would say, courage in the field of journalism, has taken on stories even when it was uncomfortable and inconvenient in mainstream press. He's now a reporter for News Nation. He's been on the ground in New Jersey reporting out. He had his own sighting of what, dozens of these drones. While he was there reporting, he spoke to local law enforcement as well. We played some of this on the show yesterday, so let's go ahead and get to that.

[Rich McHugh]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

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[Hoda Kotb]

Hi, everyone. It's Savannah Guthrie and Hoda Kotb from the TODAY Show. We love this time of year. There's so much to celebrate. That's right. Nobody does the hot holidays quite like today all season long. Join us for special performances with the brightest stars, plus festive recipes to whip up the perfect holiday feast. And great deals on the hottest toys and gifts for everyone on your list. So join us every morning on NBC to make TODAY your home for the holidays.

[Crystal]

Joining us now is investigative correspondent for News Nation, Rich McHugh, highly respected journalist. It's great to see you, sir. Thank you for joining us.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Great to see you both. Good to be back here with you.

[Crystal]

Absolutely. All right. So Rich, you did a report that we played on our show yesterday where you were credulous of these drone sightings. You said to yourself that you were skeptical going in. Why don't you just break down a little bit of what you saw and some of the further reporting that you've done since you did that segment.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Sure. So I was absolutely skeptical before starting on this. Like, I kind of didn't even pay attention to this story because I thought it was just a bunch of wing nuts in New Jersey with drones stirring up something. Then I started looking at it and I talked to, I interviewed the sheriff of Ocean county and his drone team and talked to them about what they saw, talked to the drone operator about what he saw when they put a drone up. You know, he was saying things like this thing that with this drone that we encountered was much bigger than ours and they have like an industrial grade drone. And it had, it didn't have a heat signature. I didn't know what a heat signature was. But, but apparently that's a thing. So, like they can track drones with like, you know, heat. And so he was emphatic that this thing did not have the normal kind of it was not giving off the normal heat. So there's all these things. Then there's all these sightings in the communities. Monmouth County, Ocean county residents I talked to were saying, look, we're seeing these things overhead. Like, no doubt about it. One resident told me he looked up and he saw something like 80 to 100ft above his house. He said it was so close. He said, I screamed at it, get the heck out of here. There's mayors all throughout this state that are saying, look, pay attention to us. They just had a meeting yesterday with the White House saying, look, enough of the gaslighting so from my own personal perspective, normally you don't see stuff around here. Last Thursday night, after I'd met with the Ocean county sheriffs, my cameraman and I, we got reports that there was all sorts of sightings in Monmouth County. So we raised him. Monmouth county, there was sightings in Red Bank. Like, these look. Look like these things were low flying over the. Over the city and over east by Earl and in Middletown. And so we started seeing this, and I, you know, I was like, I'm used to flight patterns. I'm used to, like, I know where this area, and I know what's what and what normally flies overhead. These looked like a mix between helicopters and something else because they were flying so low. And so we started filming them. You know, to be honest, we. I. I've kicked the tires on our reporting, and I've asked CIA, former CIA drone specialist. I've asked the CEO of a drone company, currently respected person. I've asked an aviation expert of 43 years, military. You flew in the military, and he was a commercial pilot. I asked all of them. Former CIA drone specialist said, I think they're drones. The drone CEO said, they're not drones. You got. You're filming planes. I think those are planes. And the aviation expert, the pilot of 43 years says, I think they're drones. So bottom line is, we don't know. Reporting this is like, we really don't know. And reporting this is the experience I equate to is like reporting in a fun house. It's like, you look over here, and there's a little bit of truth here and a little bit of truth there, but you're trying to make sense of it all. I think when you boil it down, I. There's room for both. I think there's a lot of stuff actually happening. I think there's real drone activity happening in New Jersey and these other states, as evidenced by the reports you're getting out of these military installations. There's incredible, you know, people on these bases at Earl here, nearby and Picatinny are saying, we are seeing these. And so that is the real issue. And the fact that the federal government, up until, you know, three a couple days ago, was saying, you know, there's really no credible, you know, credible instances of drones flying over these airspaces. Well, now they're kind of. They're kind of backpedaling on that and saying, well, there are, but, you know, they're not really something we're concerned about. And that doesn't make sense to me as a reporter. It's like if you get anywhere near these military installations, you can't, you know, most sensitive thing ever. So there's a disconnect from the messaging that is coming from the federal level and that's what's alarming.

[Krystal Ball]

Can you tell me a little bit more about how local law enforcement is thinking about this? Like, are they fearful? Are they nervous? Are they like, what's the energy? And do they have any theories about what is going on? Do they have any advice for residents about how to think about what is happening?

[Savannah Guthrie]

I talked to Sean golden. He's the mayor or the, sorry, the sheriff of Monmouth County. Yesterday I went in. He is the one who's kind of like, I don't want to say like, been at the forefront of this, but he has since the end of November. November. And now he has a heat map on in the kind of like the brain room inside of his sheriff's office. And there's thousands of sightings since December 2nd and it's pretty wild to see it. So he's tracking them, he's logging everything. He's directing everybody to the federal government. He is actually calling for laws to be enacted, which I, I believe is smart. He says, look, with planes you have the FAA and we can see on these open sourced websites you can track them, you know, like on FlightAware or whatever, you can see every plane that's going there. With drones, we don't have that. And there should be a requirement that you can through GPS track at least where the controller of the drone is so we can weed out, you know, bad actors and then try and figure out what's going on. Because right now it's just an unregulated wild west. The, the sheriff of Ocean County I talked to and he has the drone team, they're actively looking for this stuff. This is the sheriff who, who told me this story about a police officer in their district was on the beach and called 91 1, which is something remarkable in itself. A police officer calling 91 1. But, you know, seeing 50 of these things come off the ocean. And I heard that and I was like, come on. Like 50 of these things come off the ocean. And he's. She's a sworn officer. They put out the drone to go look for this. They, they called the FBI, they called the Coast Guard. They say the Coast Guard put out their, their boat and they reported back that 13 of these things followed their boat in. So I can't imagine a sheriff and Coast Guard are making that kind of claim up. So how Are they going about it? I think they're just saying, be vigilant, try not. If you see one of these things, don't necessarily call 911. If you see something and you're convinced of it, then take action. Here's where you can call.

[Crystal]

Wow.

[Krystal Ball]

Interesting.

[Crystal]

Yeah. Rich, last question for you is just in terms of what is your gut feeling? Think in terms of all of the theories that are out there. Of course, we were talking a little bit before. There's UFO theories that are around this. There's a viral, quote, unquote, nuclear theory. In terms of your reporting, at least, there's just. What you said is that a lot of these, as they loosened up some of their drone regulations and people are just having some fun having, you know, you said, kicked the tires of those. What do you think?

[Savannah Guthrie]

I think it's a combination. I think it's complicated. I think it's a combination of things. I think, number one, there is something going on here with drones. No doubt about it. People are seeing it. Mayors are seeing it. Like, sheriff's office are seeing that. They're, you know, in military installations, they're seeing it. I think in talking to Sean golden, the sheriff, he's like, look, I believe a lot of these sightings probably are planes that were. People are now staring up and looking at the sky and maybe mischaracterizing. So there's some of that going on. I think that the narrative coming out of the government is helping fuel that, because it's people. People don't have answers. If I had to guess, after talking to these. To these sheriffs and seeing the messaging coming out of the White House and federal officials, I think they know far more than they're letting on. I think if I'm going to be a betting person, the government knows exactly what this is. These are our own. These are not foreign, bad actors. Because I truly believe that if they were foreign bad actors, we'd be stopping it. Instead, the messaging is like, we acknowledge that this is happening, but it's not a harm to you people. Well, it's like, that's a irresponsible statement to put out unless you know something more.

[Krystal Ball]

Correct. Yeah, absolutely. Very true. Well, Rich, it's always great to see you. You're like the Forrest Gump of reporting. You always get on these incredible stories, historical moments, et cetera. So we're really grateful for your time this morning. Thank you so much.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Thank you.

[George Stephanopoulos]

Thank you.

[Crystal]

Good to see you both.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, same to you.

[Rich McHugh]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

Head over to NFLShop.com for the largest collection of officially licensed gear from all your favorite brands. NFL Shop is your ultimate gifting destination for jerseys, T shirts, headwear and more. Take your game day style to the next level with the best selection of NFL gear. Any show off your team pride this holiday season with styles fit for the whole family. To shop now go to NFLShop.com.

[Hoda Kotb]

Hi everyone. It's Savannah Guthrie and Hoda Kotb from the TODAY Show. We love this time of year. There's so much to celebrate. That's right. Nobody does the holidays quite like today all season long. Join us for special performances with the brightest stars, plus festival recipes to whip up the perfect holiday feast and great deals on the hottest toys and gifts for everyone on your list. So join us every morning on NBC to make TODAY your home for the holidays.

[Krystal Ball]

So we are fortunate to be joined this morning by Congressman Ro Khanna here in the studio. Always great to see you in person.

[George Stephanopoulos]

All those love coming in.

[Krystal Ball]

Lots of interesting Democratic Party news going on that we wanted to pick your brains on. So guys, if you could put before up on the screen here, we'll start with this. Alexandria Ocasio Cortez has been trying to become ranking member on the House Oversight Committee, which is a significant role and one that she seemingly, based on her past work, would be relatively well suited for reporting, is that Nancy Pelosi decided she would rather have Jerry Connolly, who is relatively aged and also suffering from cancer, in that position yesterday in the steering committee, he was able to win that vote. Now, typically, my understanding, you can correct me if I'm wrong, is usually the way the steering committee votes is the way that the whole caucus votes. So this is likely a defeat for aoc. Do you think that she still has a chance to get this position? What do you make of this sort of backroom dealing to block one of the young rising members of Congress for an older, more establishment figure?

[George Stephanopoulos]

Well, I don't agree with that. Right after this, I'm going to vote in the House caucus. I'll be voting for AOC for a couple Reasons One, she was the vice chair. She's done the work. She comes very well prepared. Two, the whole committee and the minority is about getting out in the media and being an effective communicator. We don't have that many effective communicators right now in Congress in these leadership positions. But she's gonna be an underdog. I don't understand why the Steering and Policy Committee's recommendation has so much weight in them. Someone explained it to me. Everyone wants to get on their committees, and the Steering and Policy Committee basically determines what committees you go on.

[Krystal Ball]

So if you go against them, you may be screwing yourself for your committee positions.

[George Stephanopoulos]

And one of the biggest complaints I heard about AOC secondhand was that she had endorsed in primary challenges, God forbid you endorse against an incumbent in our party. And I've said, you know, we should have competition. Just because you're an incumbent doesn't mean that you're guaranteed that seat. But this is where you're seeing that those who are willing to question the system, shake things up, that that doesn't go well when you want to try to be in leadership in the.

[Krystal Ball]

I'm glad you brought that up because there was actually reporting that as part of her attempt to become ranking member of House Oversight, she was willing to agree not to back primary challengers against incumbent Democrats, which I think is, you know, I mean, I think it's extraordinary to begin with, because as you point out, it's important to have that Democratic choice. I think it's been part of her brand. Obviously, she came in challenging a long time entrenched Democratic incumbent, Joe Crowley. You also came in, in a Democratic primary challenge. And so I thought it was extraordinary that she was willing to give that up, but I also thought it was extraordinary that she was willing to give that up. And they still were like, like, not good enough. We still want our guy, Jerry Connolly.

[George Stephanopoulos]

Yeah, I don't think we should give that. I mean, let's say someone was challenging a member of Congress on the Iraq war. That's how I started. I lost that race. But wouldn't you want to have incumbents challenged if they voted for the Iraq war?

[Crystal]

Yes, of course.

[George Stephanopoulos]

And this is where the lesson for progressives is. We're not going to build power just by making compromises. We've got to get more of our folks elected. Now, the fact that she got to 27 is pretty, pretty remarkable, but we'll see what happens in the House caucus.

[Crystal]

So the reason you're here is in this context of, like, future of the Democratic Party. What is this all about? So we have a hilarious element here. Can we put what is it B1 please up on the screen from the Atlantic they write maybe Democrats didn't stew so badly after all. The party's debate about reinventing itself after the election has gotten more complicated. They talk about some of these retcon positions and others. You've been a part of this conversation. So we're curious for your reaction to that and whether is this how your colleagues feel and generally about this theory of change and where things go from here under a second Trump administration. What do you make of an argument like this?

[George Stephanopoulos]

I think we have to make a distinction between could we have won this election by a couple points or can we win back 26 or 28? Of course we can. Versus a long term problem for the Democratic Party. Let me talk about that long term problem. We've been losing working class votes, white working class votes, African American working class votes, Latino working class votes. You've gone on Ohio from President Obama carrying it by five points to carrying it by three points to us losing it by eight points, now losing it by 11 points. Anyone looking at the data has to say okay, even if we can win in 2026 cuz Trump does something really dumb, this is not what the Democratic Party coalition and we've got to in my view get back to the FDR coalition on economic populism, economic liberalism, whatever you wanna call it. I call it a new economic deal which says we're gonna raise Americans wages, we're gonna guarantee people healthcare when they're really upset that healthcare is being denied. We're going to bring business leaders, labor leaders altogether to industrialize America and left out places and be the party of economic renewal. It seems that we have the elements in our different parts of our party, but we've got to be bold with standing up for these policies.

[Krystal Ball]

Just to follow up on that, we can put I believe it's B1B this New York Times tear sheet up on the screen which has some of the specific quotes here. This is New York Times version of the same sentiment. Democrats argue that the 2024 election actually had its bright spots. And I'll quote a little bit, they say you'd hear some party leaders and their allies talk. Democrats had plenty of November victories to be proud of. Jamie Harrison, chair of the DNC wrote a memo to party members last week pointing to down ballot triumphs declared Democrats beat back global headwinds that could have turned this squeake into a landslide. Representative Hakeem Jeffries, the House Democratic leader, wrote in a statement recently that his caucus had, quote, defied political gravity. So when you're in these internal House Democratic caucus meetings, is this the sentiment you're getting or is there a sense of we have to do some significant reforms and changes? Is it divided? What does that breakdown look like?

[George Stephanopoulos]

It's not that. I mean, this is pr. I understand, you know, if you're leading and you have a. A bad result, you're obviously gonna look for the bright spots. But the reality is people know that we've got to have a much stronger economic message, that we've got to channel anger of people. That doesn't mean, okay, let's just invent villains in a caricature way. It means, why are people upset? Why are they upset that jobs have gone offshore? Why are they upset that corporate greed and insurance companies are denying insurance claims? Why are they upset that billionaires are determining political elections and speak honestly about it? You can speak honestly about it in a suit. You can speak honestly about it in a hoodie. You can speak honestly about it in eloquent language or cursing. That's not the point. It's not stylistic, it's substantive. Are you willing to speak truth about the condition most people find themselves?

[Crystal]

So you've talked about pac. That's one of the reasons you wanted to come on here, to talk about not taking PAC money and others. You're trying to project a new vision of what that party could look like. So what is that? And you're.

[George Stephanopoulos]

Well, the DNC should make some very basic commitments. No super PAC money. In Democratic primaries, if there is a super PAC clearly affiliated with a candidate, the DNC and elected official leaders should endorse against the candidate affiliated with the super PAC. Let's not take corporate PAC money in the DNC. That's just getting back to what we had in 2008 under Obama when he ran, saying, I'm not going to take PAC money or lobby's money. Let's get behind the main initiative that passed in Maine, 70% regulating the amount people can give to super PAC. So you couldn't get Elon Musk or bill gates giving $50 million to a super PAC. You could only give $3,300 that passed 70% of the vote. Why isn't the Democratic Party saying, we're going to have a 50 state strategy, we're going to run the main ballot initiative in every state.

[Krystal Ball]

We're going to answer that question.

[Crystal]

Well, they make a lot of money.

[Krystal Ball]

I don't think It's a lot of people.

[Crystal]

Because a lot of super PAC money on the Democratic side.

[George Stephanopoulos]

More.

[Crystal]

Yeah, that's right.

[Krystal Ball]

And as you know, Congressman, you know, a lot of what the party selects for at this juncture is not necessarily political skill or aptitude or a vision. It's who can raise the dollars. That has become an important, maybe the central litmus test for aspiring Democratic candidates. So for people who have come up in that system, that's their primary skill. Are they gonna be willing to go in this direction?

[George Stephanopoulos]

Well, if they want to win, they will. And it's not just a matter of winning. It's a matter of can we actually govern. Right. 70% of people in this country want fundamental economic transformation. Only 20% trust the federal government to do that. Why is that? Because they see politicians spending most of their time raising money. They see these elections being dominated by super PACs, and they don't think that people in the government, in Congress, have a vision looking out for them. So if our party doesn't reform these basic things, we're never gonna earn the trust of the American people to actually get our agenda through. And you're absolutely right, though. But the first question when someone's running for Congress that people ask is, how much can they raise?

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, I know. I ran for Congress. That was the first question I got.

[Crystal]

It's probably gotten worse since then, too.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, absolutely.

[George Stephanopoulos]

And now it's how much can you raise? And who are your key super PAC allies? Not, what is your platform? Are you for increasing the minimum wage? Where do you stand on Medicare? What do you think are big issues? No, I mean, those are the issues that matter to voters. But we're just selecting a terrible criteria in what it takes to get to elective office.

[Crystal]

What is the.

[Krystal Ball]

Which means that you're gonna end up primarily with people who come from wealth or are connected to wealth, and it creates very little class diversity in the Congress.

[Crystal]

Absolutely. What is the Democratic theory that you're hearing about how to act under the Trump administration? So the first time around, the theory was Trump is an illegitimate president. We're just gonna treat him as, like, resil, et cetera. Kind of worked 2020 this time around, it's different popular vote mandate. This was just general exhaustion with a lot of this. So what are the fights inside? Like, what are the fights that you're going to pick with Donald Trump and the incoming administration to position yourself, not you yourself, but the party for 26 and for 28?

[George Stephanopoulos]

Well, there are two different schools of thoughts. One is, we've Got to revitalize the resistance. There are some people who say, look, we've got to resist more. We got to resist strong. And the other school of thought is we got to focus more on what we need to do, how the Democrats are going to govern, what we are going to do on economic issues, on different issues around the country. I'm in the second camp. That doesn't mean you don't push back. I mean, Trump is invariably going to betray certain promises. I think the time to push back is with specifics. Why aren't you raising the minimum wage? Why are you giving corporate tax cuts, cuts to have more offshoring of jobs when they have the tax bill? Are you really gonna give these tax cuts to the very, very wealthy? But if we just say blanket resistance, we're not going to connect with people on actual things that affect their lives.

[Krystal Ball]

Congressman, you were one of the first, I think, politicians to, of course, condemn the murder of Brian Thompson, the healthcare CEO, but also say, you know, there's a reason why people are reacting the way they are and why they are so disgusting with the healthcare, if you can call it that system that we have. Obviously, we don't have the majorities for Medicare for all, though, what you and I would both like to see as the system in this country. But are there areas where you think that we could bite off some chunk of improvement in the healthcare system that would make it less cruel, fewer bankruptcies, and less deadly?

[George Stephanopoulos]

Well, you can have two different thoughts simultaneously. Murder is unconditionally wrong, and the healthcare system is irretrievably broken.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[George Stephanopoulos]

And those are both what we're seeing happening. You know, I'll just give you one statistic. If you have cancer and many people know someone who's had cancer, the average 42% of cancer patients within two years have lost their entire life savings. And so many people have denial after denial. And you know what they do? Many times they just don't take the medicine or they don't get the procedure. So one of the simple things we can do is to say if a doctor prescribes a medicine and if Medicare would cover it, then the insurance, private insurance company should cover it. But just on the front page today of the New York Times is the corruption of the system. If you look at it, it says that private insurance companies colluded with PBMs to basically get Americans addicted to OxyContin, and they were paying PBMs to, say, fill more of the OxyContin prescriptions. It is a corrupt system. And all you have to do is look at the front page of the New York Times. Medicare for all is the answer. I am tired of people saying it's not politically possible. If there is ever a moment that we should be pushing that, it is right now.

[Crystal]

But how do you square that with what you just said? Only 20% of people say the federal government can solve their problems. How are you going to convince them.

[George Stephanopoulos]

That, well, Medicare is one of. Medicare is one of the places where people do like, right? I mean, and so they like when.

[Crystal]

They pay their bills, but they don't like when being told what to DO, rationing care, etc. Right.

[George Stephanopoulos]

Well Medicare and Medicare doesn't cover ration the care. I mean I think when it. Look, there are certain things when it comes to job creation, creating high paying jobs. I do think we need to have a whole society approach. You need to get business leaders, you need to get technology leaders, you need labor. One of the great things about FDR is he was basically a conductor. He had all the talent and the politician was just saying, okay, I'm going to mobilize that. But when it comes to Medicare for all, for public health, for people's healthcare, I think people realize that shouldn't have a for profit motive, that having the Medicare pay for the coverage makes sense. And then you can have your private doctor, you could have your private nurses, you can have your private hospitals. It's important to let people know that those are going to be private. Many people don't even know Medicare is a federal program. They'll say, yeah, I like Medicare but I don't like the federal government at the same time.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, that's true. No, that's a great point. Well, Congressman, we always appreciate your time. Thank you so much for coming.

[George Stephanopoulos]

Happy holidays. Merry Christmas.

[Crystal]

Good to see you.

[George Stephanopoulos]

Good to see you.

[Crystal]

Yes.

[Rich McHugh]

The flavor, the tradition and the spirit of carne asada lives on at Del Taco. Join the Asada today with Del Taco's new limited time half pound chipotle carne asada steak burrito. Packed with sweet, spicy and smoky flavor. Wrapped up and grilled to perfection. The whole car Asada steak menu delivers the bowl flavors you crave with epic burritos, loaded fries and street tacos. Starting at just $2.99 only at Del Taco.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Head over to NFL Shop.com for the largest collection of officially licensed gear from all your favorite brands. NFL Shop is your ultimate gifting destination for jerseys, T shirts, headwear and more. Take your game day style to the next level with the best selection of NFL gear anywhere. Show off your team pride this holiday season with styles fit for the whole family. To shop now, go to NFLShop.com.

[Hoda Kotb]

Hi, everyone. It's Savannah Guthrie and Hoda Kotb from the TODAY Show. We love this time of year. There's so much to celebrate. That's right. Nobody does the holidays quite like TODAY all season long. Join us for special performances with the brightest stars, plus festive recipes to whip up the perfect holiday feast. And great deals on the hottest toys and gifts for everyone on your list. So join us every morning on NBC to make TODAY your home for the holidays.

[Crystal]

We have an update for you on the CNN situation. They are now admitting that their segment, at least in part, was a complete lie that we showed all of you on Thursday where you had this miraculous free of a prisoner who had allegedly been in the cell for months on end. And even though he'd been there for months, there was no waste in the cell. And his nails were perfectly manicured and he actually looked fine. And he wasn't pale or didn't show signs of acute malnutrition or of hunger or of lacking water for several days. Well, it just turns out that at the very least, the name that he gave them is totally wrong. Let's put this up there on the screen. According to CNN themselves, they track down some of the people who knew him and they say a man who was filmed by cnn note the passive language being released by rebels from a Damascus jail was a former intelligence officer with the deposed Syrian regime. According to local residents, not an ordinary citizen who had been imprisoned as he had claimed. CNN initially found the man while pursuing leads in a video report. Clarissa Ward and her team, accompanied by a rebel guard, came across a cell in Damascus that was padlocked. The guard blew off the lock and the man was found alone inside the cell. When he emerged, he appeared bewildered, questioned by the rebel fighter who freed him. Hia Den classified himself as Adel Gurbal from the central Syrian city of Homs. He claimed he'd been kept in the cell for three months. However, his real identity is said to be a lieutenant in the Assad regime. Air Force Intelligence Directorate Salama Mohammad Salama, a resident of Bayada neighborhood and homes, gave CNN a photograph said to be of the same man while he was on duty in what appears to be a government office. Facial recognition then matched him to that role. And it appears that he was actually in prison as of a month ago because he had been extorting and shaking people down for, quote, profit Sharing from extorted funds with a higher ranking officer. So, okay, at the very least, his story is bullshit, right? Three months in jail. Nope. He was imprisoned less than a month ago. They said he was some heartbroken rebel prisoner. No, it turns out he was an Assad intelligence. Intelligence thug who had been imprisoned for shaking people down maybe. Right. According to them. And then his current whereabouts, completely unknown. So this raises all kinds of questions and it's a total joke and terrible look for CNN because they just broadcast this stuff without a single. They don't check anything, they don't ask anything. They broadcast it live. Everybody's reacting to it. Crystal, I'm sure he saw. This is one of the most extraordinary moments in American tell that I've ever seen.

[Krystal Ball]

I did see it.

[Crystal]

Normal people are like, this is a bullshit.

[Krystal Ball]

Okay?

[Crystal]

I didn't come out and say it 100% because, you know, you never know. Ryan and I, but we were like, well, it looks fake.

[Krystal Ball]

You guys are very diplomatic. I watched your section. They were very diplomatic, like, wow, you got a legal possibility.

[Crystal]

Internally, I was just like, yeah, well.

[Krystal Ball]

Just so for people who didn't see your original segment and maybe haven't seen this original CNN segment, let's relive and just in your mind, like, imagine if you were. The story they're selling here is that this man has been in prison for at least three months. That he's gone days and days without water. I mean, you can only go a short period of time before you die without water. And that he's been hiding under this blanket the whole time. Yet he's, you know, he's like, his haircut looks pretty fresh. The jacket he's wearing is really clean. Like, there's still a lot of questions, questions. So let's go ahead and relive this CNN segment and then I can tell you a little bit more about what we know on the other side.

[Crystal]

I'm a civilian, he says, I'm a civilian.

[Krystal Ball]

Okay, you're okay, you're okay, you're okay, you're okay. Okay. It's water. It's water.

[Crystal]

After three months in a windowless cell, you can finally see the sky.

[Krystal Ball]

So, you know, it went on from.

[Crystal]

There, but sees the sky.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, and there's a whole emotional scene, et cetera. In any case, let's go and put up on the screen. CNN was not the outlet that first tracked down who this individual actually was. It was this organization which calls itself, like Assyrian Fact. Check the headline here updated. Did CNN fabricate the story of, quote, freeing a Syrian detainee from a secret prison. They are the ones who tracked down the actual identity of this individual and talked to local residents and got the story from them. And according to local residents, he was imprisoned, as you said, Sagar, less than a month. It was due to a dispute over profit sharing from extorted funds with a higher ranking officer. So it was the Assad government itself who had imprisoned their own guy. Right. And then he also was known, allegedly, again according to local residents, as someone who had murdered and tortured civilians. So not exactly the heartwarming tale that CNN wants you to take away from their original reporting. But the other thing is, so many questions still remain because even now that we know the apparent identity of this man and the reason that he was apparently imprisoned, the whole setup still seems really fake. The whole idea that he was in prison for so long that he had no food and water, that they just stumbled upon him and miraculously rescued him, et cetera, et cetera, it raises a lot of questions. And it's also just incredible. Clarissa Ward, she's a longtime foreign correspondent. She's been in war zones. This is not someone who is just naively showing up. Certainly she's been in a lot of dicey situations with a lot of people who want to propagandize you and convince you and trick you, et cetera. So the fact that this was just accepted at face value is really quite wild to me.

[Crystal]

Absolutely. She should know better than anybody else. But Ryan was bringing this up and I think it's actually the most important. These journalists, they're not neutral people. As in, Clarissa Ward admitted to sending an email to Ben Rose, who was the national Security deputy under Barack Obama, and was like, I hope that you're happy with yourself because she was upset with him for not bombing the Assad regime in 2013. She admitted on the stage to all of this. She literally said on this issue, I'm an activist. And so what happens, we all get carried away. You know, I'm particularly aggravated by this entire situation because you would think that these Al Qaeda guys are the greatest heroes on earth. And listen, I'm fine with value neutral analysis. I'm openly was fine, not fine. But I said, well, it's preferable to leave Afghanistan and let the Taliban take over. I know the Taliban is bad. I know a lot of people will suffer. I just don't think we should have anything to do with it. But you basically have two regimes who are now effectively the same. Look at the media treatment of the way that the US Pull out from Afghanistan was happening. And look at these people. They're like, here, you know, and, you know, let's check in five, six years from now. Let's see how it works out for the Alawite Christians or for the Druze population or the Shia or any of these other religious minorities. Let's see. You know, everybody said, oh, Afghanistan's gonna be a harbor of terrorism and all this stuff. Why don't they say the same stuff about Syria? Like, somehow they have decided that Assad was worse. And look, he's not a good guy, but you don't have a lot of good options to choose from here.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Crystal]

So that's why I'm just infuriated by people like her and all these other Western journalists who selectively decide who the good guy is and who the bad guy is. And it doesn't even make any sense. Its internal logic is completely contradictory. It's totally ridiculous.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, I think when we had Jeremy Cahill on, I think he said it well, which is that, of course, there are very good reasons why many Syrians are celebrating these developments and that means something. And I'm not. I'm not Syrian. And like, they deserve to get a chance to run their own country and to have representative government and to shape their own destiny. And at the same time, while you're holding that thought in your head, you also have to recognize that the peril is great based on who we know the new government is comprised of their track record, and also what we've learned through the Arab Spring, what we learned through our intervention, our disastrous intervention in Libya and other brutal, catastrophic misadventures. So, you know, I hope that the story turns out differently this time, but jaded enough to be not too optimistic.

[Crystal]

About that as you should be, and also, you know, for everybody. Oh, let the Syrians decide. We decided to be. That's different. A long time ago, Syrians didn't get to play a role in any of this. Qatar, uae, the United States, Iran, Hezbollah, Israel, dare I say Turkey? Turkey. It could go on forever. It's turned into a complete regional proxy. It's like Ukraine. They themselves, they never had a chance to determine their own future. From day one, it became a foreign playground. And they're, of course, the ones who paid with it, with their lives. So I feel terrible for them. But now, at this point, I mean, yeah, I literally am looking at a thing right now. A pre recorded video from the new leader of Syria, Al Jilani. When we build the Islamic caliphate, Christians will pay the jizya under Islamic Shah. Okay, if you don't know what that is, it's a tax. So that's what ISIS did, too, by the way, whenever they imprisoned sex slaves in Syria. This is what I'm talking about. And these people act like they're heroes. Yes. Like, has he changed his tune? I hope so, you know, for the people of Syria. But you can't preemptively be giving these people the benefit of the doubt. So I don't know. I just think willful propag. Willful tools of propaganda are ridiculous. They did this with Egypt. They did this with Libya. They're doing it now with Syria. The track record is bad. So, yes, I'm hopeful that for the people of Syria, I actually wish for them they actually got to decide their own fate. But let's not be naive. Let's not be naive about this conflict.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, that's exactly right.

[Crystal]

14 years now that's been going on.

[Krystal Ball]

I think in this situation with this CNN report. I mean, the simplest and most obvious explanation is Clarissa Ward, who should know better because she is an experienced reporter, has been too many war zones, has been in these sorts of situations, that she allowed her ideology to blind her to the fact that she was being taken for a ride.

[Crystal]

Exactly.

[Krystal Ball]

Like, I think that's. I actually think that's the most charitable explanation of what unfolded here.

[Crystal]

Yeah, let's hope that that's the case.

[Krystal Ball]

But then you also have to think, you know, it's not just her because she records this, and then there's a chain of producers who edit it and executive producers who okay it. And, you know, on air host, I believe it was presented originally with Anderson Cooper, who accept it as credible. When. I mean, the vast majority of people when they saw this immediately were like, this is bullshit. So somehow it got through all of those chains and made it to air without any major caveats of, we don't really know what unfolded here, but we're gonna show you the story. Okay, that's one thing. But it was presented as if they felt comfortable that the story they were being fed was the real and accurate truth.

[Crystal]

Yeah. And last thing on this. There's often a feeling in the US That I can't believe how bad things have gotten. No, no, no, no. It's always been this way. As in this 10, 15 years ago, this Clarice Award segment. There's no Internet, all right? Like, there's no Twitter or anything for this people. Like, this is bs. And I was reminded actually of the Dan Rather. The Dan Rather incident. Do you remember this? Where he was fired from CBS News after they were found manufacturing a story. And if you think about it like, that was right at the beginning of the blogosphere.

[Krystal Ball]

Is that about George W. Bush?

[Crystal]

This was about Bush. Yeah, exactly.

[Krystal Ball]

His National Guard service or whatever it was that. Yeah.

[Crystal]

My point, though, is that Dan Rather was a household name in this country. Right? He was like Walter Cronkite 2.0 and all of this. And it took the blogosphere to be like, hey, this is B.S. now rewind to Vietnam. So all of the people who have all this nostalgic feeling. I have this Cronkite book behind me, all right? People should go and read it. Because the news has always been fake. It's just that now you know it's fake. And we have this theory about, oh, things have gotten worse. It's like, no, no, no, no. For the very first time, you actually have. And can see behind the curtain.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, Brian Williams, remember.

[Crystal]

Oh, yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

About, like, under fire while he was in a military helicopter, Iraq or something. Something like that. And yeah, it took years for that to ultimately emerge. That he just completely made that up. And I think there were several other instances of. We'll call it fabulism, of course, from him. There's so many of them that led to his ultimate. To his downfall, although he was resurrected, brought back into NBC. But that's a whole other thing, right?

[Crystal]

Yeah, they put him in 11pm but yeah, that's the other thing, is that you lie. Oh, it's fine. You know, no worries. But yeah, I just wanted to put that out there. Cause I see way too many people thinking, how could CNN ever be like this? And it's like, well, let's rewind to 03 in the Iraq war. How many of these things were you guys seeing out there of like, oh, we've been welcomed as liberators and all that. We just didn't have Twitter to be like, this is bullshit. For people in Iraq to be like, no, actually, this is entirely staged by the Pentagon. Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

Whole ecosystem of independent journalists, like this Syrian group that are actually Glenn.

[Crystal]

Yeah, this is where Glenn is the OG of this. He was the first person on the blogosphere with others talking about how anthrax was. The anthrax story was fake. IR rack was fake. But he was a lone wolf, you know, at that time. So God bless Glenn. Shout out to him, man, because he set the stage for all of us. But anyway, it's just. It's just a reminder. It's like all this nostalgia about things were in the past, you just didn't know this is. This was half the stuff that was coming out.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, that's. That's a great point.

[George Stephanopoulos]

You wake up, put on your Ray Ban Meta glasses.

[Crystal]

You're living all in. You realize you need coffee, so you say hey Meta.

[Krystal Ball]

How do I make a latte brew.

[George Stephanopoulos]

Two shots of espresso after Meta AI gets you caffeinated.

[Crystal]

You're ready for some beats.

[Krystal Ball]

Hey Meta. Play hip hop music.

[George Stephanopoulos]

You head to meet some friends but can't remember the place.

[Krystal Ball]

Hey Meta.

[Crystal]

Call Eva Ray Ban Meta glasses the.

[George Stephanopoulos]

Next generation of AI glasses. Just say hey Meta to harness the.

[Crystal]

Power of Meta AI shop now at.

[Rich McHugh]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

Is hard, but here's a hint. Give the gift of connection from US Cellular.

[Crystal]

Not sure what that means? Here's a slightly more specific can choose four free phones and get four lines for $90 a month from US Cell Cellular.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Your family wants new phones?

[Rich McHugh]

How do we know?

[Sagar Enjeti]

They told us.

[Crystal]

The good news is that compared to.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Wrapping presents, you're great at getting hints.

[George Stephanopoulos]

So take the hint and get them.

[Crystal]

Four free phones and four lines for $90 a month.

[Sagar Enjeti]

US Cellular built.