12/17/24: OpenAI Whistleblower Found Dead, Bernie Viral Warning On US Oligarchy, Why Japan Has Zero Fat People

Summary

Podcast Summary: Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar Episode: December 17, 2024
Title: OpenAI Whistleblower Found Dead, Bernie Viral Warning On US Oligarchy, Why Japan Has Zero Fat People
Release Date: December 17, 2024
Hosts: Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti
Publisher: iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction

In this episode of Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar, hosts Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti delve into three pressing issues shaping today's socio-political landscape:

1. The mysterious death of an OpenAI whistleblower.
2. Bernie Sanders' alarming insights on the rise of American oligarchy.
3. An exploration into Japan's remarkably low obesity rates.

The discussion is enriched with insightful analysis, notable quotes, and critical examinations of each topic.

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1. OpenAI Whistleblower Found Dead

Timestamp: [01:14] - [12:46]

The episode opens with the tragic news of Suchhir Balaji, a former OpenAI researcher and whistleblower, being found dead in his San Francisco apartment. Authorities have ruled his death a suicide, citing no evidence of foul play. However, the circumstances surrounding his death raise significant questions due to his role in exposing alleged unethical practices within OpenAI.

Key Points:

• Background of Suchhir Balaji: Balaji worked at OpenAI for nearly four years, focusing on ChatGPT for the last one and a half years. He publicly criticized OpenAI for violating U.S. copyright laws during the development of ChatGPT, arguing that the company's practices were detrimental to the internet ecosystem.

• His Writings: Balaji expressed skepticism about the feasibility of "fair use" as a defense for generative AI products. He posited that AI systems capable of creating substitutes for trained data compete directly with the original creators, undermining the very foundation of fair use.

  Suchhir Balaji: "Fair use seems like a pretty implausible defense for a lot of generative AI products because they can create substitutes that compete with the data they are trained on." [04:15]

• Impact on the AI Industry: Balaji believed that if his allegations were upheld in a court of law, it would disrupt the burgeoning AI industry, which currently relies heavily on vast amounts of data and substantial financial investments from major tech companies like Microsoft.

• Concerning Connections: The podcast highlights OpenAI's connections with influential figures such as Sam Altman, who has donated $1 million to Donald Trump's inaugural fund, and his feud with Elon Musk, which poses a potential existential threat to the company.

  Krystal Ball: "OpenAI has a lot at stake right now. Sam Altman is donating $1 million to the Donald Trump inaugural fund. His feud with Elon Musk is like a potential existential threat to the company." [05:36]

• Power Dynamics: The discussion underscores the immense financial and political power wielded by OpenAI and its leaders, emphasizing how these dynamics may contribute to the suppression of dissenting voices within the organization.

  Krystal Ball: "There's a huge divergence between AI theory of some people like David Sachs, Elon Musk, Marc Andreessen around open source AI versus the closed 'responsible AI' systems that OpenAI and Microsoft want." [06:00]

• Speculations on His Death: While officials attribute Balaji's death to suicide, the hosts question the plausibility given his pivotal role and the significant influence he had over the future of a multi-trillion-dollar industry.

  Hoda Kotb: "When you see someone who is a key player blowing the whistle on these practices, who could potentially be a danger to a multi, multi, hundreds of millions of dollars industry, you have to raise questions about what exactly happened here." [05:00]

Analysis:

Krystal and Saagar explore the intricate web of power, money, and ethics within Silicon Valley's AI sector. They draw parallels to previous corporate scandals, suggesting that the lack of transparency and accountability could have far-reaching consequences for both the industry and society at large.

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2. Bernie Sanders' Viral Warning On US Oligarchy

Timestamp: [14:17] - [27:41]

The conversation shifts to Bernie Sanders' incisive critique of the growing oligarchic tendencies within the United States. Sanders warns of an unprecedented concentration of wealth and power among a small group of billionaires, posing significant threats to democratic governance and societal equity.

Key Points:

• Sanders' Observation: Sanders highlights that America is swiftly transitioning into an oligarchic society where a handful of billionaires control substantial wealth and wield immense political influence.

  Bernie Sanders: "We are moving rapidly into an oligarchic form of society. Never before in American history have so few billionaires, so few people have so much wealth and so much power." [14:45]

• Historical Context: The hosts discuss the accumulation of wealth and power facilitated by Supreme Court decisions that loosened campaign finance regulations, along with both major political parties' compromises with wealthy interests.

  Hoda Kotb: "Supreme Court decisions opened the floodgates of unlimited campaign contributions. The Republican Party's long-held position carried water for the wealthy, and the Democratic Party capitulated during the Clinton era." [15:00]

• Election Financing: The episode scrutinizes the role of massive financial contributions in recent elections, particularly focusing on Donald Trump's candidacy, which received unprecedented donations from billionaires like Elon Musk.

  Hoda Kotb: "Elon Musk's donation was of a size that, at least as far as we know, has never before seen in history. Trump is already rewarding his big donors with consequential roles." [16:00]

• Corporate Influence: There's a detailed examination of how key Silicon Valley executives are aligning themselves with Trump, investing millions into his inauguration and seeking favor through donations.

  Bernie Sanders: "Major Silicon Valley executives like Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, and Sam Altman are dishing out millions to the Trump inauguration to curry favor with the incoming president." [22:00]

• Impact on Governance: The hosts argue that this level of financial influence undermines democratic principles, leading to policies that favor the elite while marginalizing the broader population.

  Krystal Ball: "The incoming administration is in full bloom like never before, with rule by a cabal of billionaires effectively taking control without checks from representative democracy." [25:00]

• Policy Implications: The discussion touches on specific policy changes, such as the Trump administration's moves to deregulate industries like autonomous vehicles and postal services, which disproportionately benefit large corporations at the expense of public welfare.

  Hoda Kotb: "The Trump transition team is recommending the elimination of an automated vehicle crash reporting requirement that has proven irksome to Tesla." [18:30]

Analysis:

Krystal and Saagar emphasize the corrosive effects of unchecked financial influence in politics, drawing attention to how oligarchic structures erode democratic institutions and exacerbate social inequalities. They advocate for renewed efforts to restore democratic accountability and mitigate the disproportionate power of the wealthy elite.

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3. Why Japan Has Zero Fat People

Timestamp: [29:21] - [37:11]

Shifting gears, Krystal Ball shares her observations from a recent trip to Japan, exploring the nation's remarkably low obesity rates despite its status as a developed, consumerist society. The discussion delves into cultural, governmental, and lifestyle factors that contribute to Japan's public health success.

Key Points:

• Obesity Statistics: Japan boasts an obesity rate of approximately 4%, starkly contrasting with the nearly 40% rate in the United States.

  Krystal Ball: "Japan has an obesity rate of 4%. Compare that to the US of nearly 40%, with the vast majority of our population clocking in at a classification of overweight." [29:21]

• Cultural Dietary Habits: The Japanese diet emphasizes simple, high-quality ingredients rich in nutrition. Traditional meals often include fish, rice, fermented vegetables, and broth, which promote satiety without excessive calorie intake.

  Krystal Ball: "They just eat variations of fish, meat, rice, fermented vegetables, and broth. It is incredible how full you can feel on such a meal and just how much weight you can lose if you do." [31:00]

• Government Intervention: In 2008, Japan enacted the Metabo Law, mandating annual waistline measurements for adults aged 40-74 in workplaces and local governments. Those exceeding healthy measurements are referred to counseling, and companies with high obesity rates face fines.

  Krystal Ball: "In 2008, they enacted the Metabo Law, which requires workplaces to measure waistlines and take action if measurements are too high." [30:30]

• Active Lifestyle: Daily routines in cities like Tokyo naturally incorporate significant physical activity. Krystal notes her personal experience of averaging 16,000 steps per day, a testament to Japan's walkable urban environments and communal exercise practices among the elderly.

  Krystal Ball: "My average step count when I was there was 16,000 per day. They just walk a lot more than most Americans do." [32:00]

• Social Accountability: Public shaming serves as a deterrent against overeating and laziness. The societal emphasis on mutual respect and personal responsibility fosters an environment where maintaining a healthy lifestyle is both a personal and communal priority.

  Krystal Ball: "If you do, you're publicly shamed. Instead, they just eat healthier and maintain their weight without resorting to extreme measures." [31:45]

• Safety and Trust: Beyond health, Krystal highlights the profound sense of safety and trust ingrained in Japanese society. From children navigating public transportation alone to the absence of security measures in stores, the high societal trust reduces crime and fosters a peaceful urban living experience.

  Krystal Ball: "I cannot tell you how astonishing it is to feel as physically safe in a major city as you do in Tokyo." [34:00]

• Cultural Refinement: Japan's focus on refinement and craftsmanship contributes to its high standards across various sectors, including automotive, electronics, fashion, and cuisine. This dedication to excellence ensures that quality remains paramount, further enhancing the population's overall well-being.

  Krystal Ball: "The Japanese didn't invent the automobile, and yet today, Toyota is the best-selling car brand in the world by refining it to be cheap, easy to fix, and reliable." [35:30]

Analysis:

Krystal presents Japan as a model for achieving public health and societal harmony through cultural values, government policies, and communal responsibility. The episode encourages listeners to reflect on the United States' lifestyle and policy choices, suggesting that adopting similar strategies could address the nation's obesity crisis and enhance overall quality of life.

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Conclusion

In this episode, Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar offers a compelling examination of critical issues ranging from the opaque practices within the AI industry to the insidious rise of oligarchic power in America, capped with an insightful look into Japan's public health and societal structure. Through meticulous analysis and thought-provoking discussions, the hosts urge listeners to question existing power structures and consider cultural transformations as viable solutions to contemporary challenges.

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Notable Quotes:

• Suchhir Balaji on Fair Use: "Fair use seems like a pretty implausible defense for a lot of generative AI products because they can create substitutes that compete with the data they are trained on." [04:15]

• Bernie Sanders on Oligarchy: "Never before in American history have so few billionaires, so few people have so much wealth and so much power." [14:45]

• Krystal Ball on Japan's Safety: "I cannot tell you how astonishing it is to feel as physically safe in a major city as you do in Tokyo." [34:00]

• Krystal Ball on Cultural Refinement: "The Japanese didn't invent the automobile, and yet today, Toyota is the best-selling car brand in the world by refining it to be cheap, easy to fix, and reliable." [35:30]

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Transcript

[Savannah Guthrie]

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[Hoda Kotb]

Hi everyone, it's Savannah Guthrie and Hoda Copy from the Today Show.

[Krystal Ball]

Nobody does the holidays like Today. From festive performances and great gift ideas to tips for the perfect holiday feast.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Join us every morning on NBC and.

[Hoda Kotb]

Make TODAY your home for the holidays.

[Savannah Guthrie]

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[Krystal Ball]

Hey guys, Sager and Crystal here.

[Hoda Kotb]

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[Krystal Ball]

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[Hoda Kotb]

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[Krystal Ball]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breaking points.com.

[Hoda Kotb]

All right, let's get to some troubling developments with regard to this OpenAI whistleblower. We can put this up on the screen. He was a former researcher at OpenAI turned whistleblower, and he has sadly been found dead in his apartment in San Francisco. According to authorities, they ruled his death to be a suicide. They say police found no evidence of foul play. In October, the New York Times had published an interview with Mr. Balaji. His name is Suchhir Balaji and He alleged that OpenAI had violated US copyright law while it was developing chatgpt and he became so disturbed by what he learned about his allegations about their copyright violations and how unethical this was and how damaging it ultimately was to the entire Internet ecosystem, he felt he could no longer remain at OpenAI and then came out as a whistleblower. We can put this next piece up on the screen which includes some of his writings and thoughts. This is something that he posted relatively recently. He says, I recently participated in New York Times story about fair use and generative AI and why I'm skeptical fair use would be a plausible defense for a lot of generative AI products. I also wrote a blog post to give some context. I was at OpenAI for nearly four years, worked on ChatGPT for the last one and a half of them. I initially didn't know much about copyright, fair use, etc. But became curious after seeing all the lawsuits. When I tried to understand the issue better, I came to the conclusion that fair use seems like a pretty implausible defense for a lot of generative AI products for the basic reason that they can create substitutes that compete with the data they are trained on. I've written up the more detailed reasons for why I believe this in my post. Obviously I'm not a lawyer, but I still feel like it's important for even non lawyers to understand the law, both the letter of it and why it's actually there in the first place. The that being said, he goes on to say, I don't want this to read as a critique of ChatGPT or OpenAI per se, because fair use and generative AI is a much broader issue than any one product or company. I also went back to read the New York Times story that he references here that he was, you know, he was really featured in and was kind of the main character in. And one of the things that he told the Times was, quote, if you believe what I believe, you have to just leave the company. He had not taken a new job at that time. Back in October, he said he was working on what he calls personal projects, was among the first employees to leave a major AI company and speak out publicly against the way these companies have used copyrighted data to create their technologies. And he believes the threats are more immediate than some of the, you know, some of the things we've talked about on the show, like the potential extremely dystopian possibilities that have been raised by some of the people who are concerned about the AI future. He says the threats are more immediate. ChatGPT and other chatbots, he said, are destroying the commercial viability of the individuals, businesses and Internet services. They created the digital data used to train these AI systems. And obviously, if his view were to hold in, let's say, a court of law, it really would fundamentally disturb, disrupt, undercut this entire now massive industry that all of Silicon Valley is effectively placing gigantic multibillion, if not trillion dollar bets on the amounts of money that are at stake at this point in AI development that already have manifested themselves are quite astronomical. Which is why police say it was a suicide. We have no specific evidence to indicate otherwise. But when you see someone who is a key player blowing the whistle on these practices, who could potentially be a danger to a multi, multi, hundreds of millions of dollars industry, billions of dollars industry, you have to raise questions about what exactly happened here.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, absolutely. And if you look at the circumstances too, like you said, at least the medical examiner, the police, they claim that there was no foul play. But I just think in the context of what you were just saying, it's obviously that we should at least take it seriously like we did with the Boeing investigation. Let's put this up there on the screen. OpenAI has a lot of stake right now. Right now Sam Altman is donating $1 million to the Donald Trump inaugural fund. The Financial Times and others have reported, by the way, that his feud with Elon Musk is like a potential existential threat to the company. They have talked about how he has been and look, it's actually true. There is a huge divergence between AI theory of some of the people like David Sachs, Elon Musk, Marc Andreessen around open source AI versus the closed quote unquote responsibility AI systems that OpenAI and Microsoft want, which is basically a monopolistic like Gateway over their current systems. There are billions of dollars at stake just personally for Sam Altman. That's right. There are trillions of dollars at stake for Microsoft, for its market cap and for the entire tech industry. Put the next one up there on the screen. For example, OpenAI quote, Sam Altman quote, worked for love, now he's gonna make 10.5 billion. This is something that Elon has also talked about. It's like, oh, it's miraculous. You start out as a nonprofit and then you eventually hit pay dirt. Then you just go through all of this fake legal maneuvering to convert yourself to a for profit organization that's worth $150 billion. And now you're a multi billion billionaire on paper, who's already quite wealthy.

[Hoda Kotb]

He was already a billionaire.

[Krystal Ball]

Yes, he already was. But you know, I mean, Multi never hurts, right? And look, I don't think it's about money per se, it's about power, it's about control. And so if a single individual in this organization feels that this is a threat, yeah, look, we gotta take it seriously. There's just way too much here at stake. And in a sense I think we should take some of these people at their word. I don't even 100% believe like AI is gonna be the future, the determiner of everything, it's gonna change the fundamental relationship of humanity to other, et cetera. But if we take them seriously and they believe that to be true, then the stakes couldn't be higher. I mean it's like being in the forefront of the smartphone. It was a multi literal trillion dollar industry. So that's what they believe. At the very least, take a look at this whistleblower. I mean there's a lot of sketchy people involved in these companies. Saudis, they've been investing in Silicon Valley, all these other foreign agents, governments, et cetera. So a lot of people have a lot of money on the line.

[Hoda Kotb]

This is a big money, high stakes game that's being played. And you can see it too in the contours of this election with crypto and AI which kind of like, you know, linked as a certain sense as like these technologies allegedly of the future, astronomical record breaking amounts of money spent. You know, Elon, he has a lot of different motives, but certainly with him and Andreessen and David Sachs and others, making sure that they can have a free hand to develop these technologies and benefit from these technologies in the way that they want was certainly a motivating factor in the way that they participated in this election. So Sam Altman right now is in, is in suck up mode. You know, that's where the million dollars to Trump inaugural comes from. He also was asked about Elon and Doge and he was like, I'm sure he'll be great. I'm sure. No problems there. Elon the Magnificent. I never had a bad word to say about him. Love the guy, he's, he's wonderful. So he's. The vibe is panic, right? The vibe is honestly should be definitely panic. Yeah. Because Elon now is probably the most powerful person in the world in addition to already being the wealthiest person in the world. So that he's on the wrong side of him is potentially quite devastating.

[Krystal Ball]

I actually think Elon Musk is his own personal goals at least my hope is because I think it's outrageous what they have done. You take A nonprofit. You develop a consumer platform, you convert it to for profit. You sign a partnership with the largest tech company in the world. You lobby the government to create guardrails so that. That no new entrants can enter the space. You've created all these fake licensing agreements, incorporating it into Microsoft's office environment. And now we're talking about tech. What was it? We're talking about Pentagon contracts and all this other stuff. I mean, the acceleration of this and its power in the United States in just the last five years is extraordinary. So, yeah, I mean, oversight, great. Open source, absolutely. The less power these people have, the better off, in my opinion, Especially again, if we are to believe them. But, yeah, that's the one thing. I think Elon is 100% correct.

[Hoda Kotb]

I think I differ on this because I don't think open source is the answer, although I think it's better than monopoly control from like a Microsoft. So I think it's superior to the Sam Altman model. But I think there has to be significant government regulation to make sure that these new technologies benefit humanity rather than benefiting just, you know, a few.

[Krystal Ball]

I don't disagree with you private.

[Hoda Kotb]

I'm not the agency.

[Krystal Ball]

I'm not for like, total private. I actually am for, like a set standard, as in, this is our problem with social media and all these problems with moderation. And it's like, okay, listen, we just pass a law that says you moderate per the First Amendment. It's like, that's it. Take all this crap off the table on AI. It's like, no political interference with this. You have to have copyright compensation. Right. Let's figure all this out first and not fall into the same trap as Section 230, like with the Internet in 1996 or whatever. And we're like, oh, yeah, you know this Bill Clinton. I was at the White House Christmas tour, and they have a photo of Clinton sending the first email in 96 on this brick laptop. But you're like, I mean, this thing is gigantic. I mean, it's like this thick.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, you don't mean literally bricks.

[Krystal Ball]

No, like a literal brick. It looks like a brick from 1996. And you can see him hunched over like this. You can tell he doesn't even know how to type, which is hilarious. You know, like, really the classic boomer. The boomer fingers and. Yeah, and I was looking. It's crazy to think they take typing.

[Hoda Kotb]

Classes, like, on, like, actual typewriters.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, you would hope so. I don't think so. From what I saw, he's got the classic like chicken peck thing going on. I think he sent a, I forget who he sent the email to. Anyway, my point is I was alive for that, right? So we've seen that acceleration happen. And at that time, nobody could have predicted what the Internet would have become at that time. They called it the information superhighway. So let's just set the standards now and then. We don't have to worry as much and you can actually be better off for everybody. We're going to have more entrants, etc. But instead what's going to happen? You're going to multi. You know already what it is. We got lobbyists in Washington. We got a multibillion trillion dollar industry. You know, basically the S&P 500. If a single one of these stocks goes down, I think it's like the majority of the gains of The S&P 500 is 7 stocks. If Nvidia, which already by the way, didn't meet expectations in its last one, if it has a couple of down quarters, boom. The whole US Economy can go like that. So there's a lot riding on this and it is very terrifying.

[Savannah Guthrie]

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[Hoda Kotb]

Hi everyone. It's Savannah Guthrie and Hoda Kotb from the Today Show. We love this time of year. There's so much to celebrate.

[Krystal Ball]

That's right. Nobody does the holidays quite like today all season long. Join us for special performances with the.

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Brightest stars, plus festive recipes to whip up the perfect holiday feast and great.

[Savannah Guthrie]

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For everyone on your list.

[Krystal Ball]

So join us every morning on NBC to make TODAY your home for the holidays. Krystal, what are you taking a look At.

[Hoda Kotb]

Well, in the wake of their stunning defeat, Democrats and legacy media have been unusually receptive to hearing a little bit from Bernie Sanders and his assessment of what went wrong. Of course, this openness comes, oh, roughly a decade too late, but it is much deserved. He's been correct on many things, from our disastrous wars to Wall Street's impun, to the Democratic Party's disastrous abandonment of working class people. And now in a viral clip, Bernie Sanders is sounding the alarm on American oligarchy. Take a listen.

[Krystal Ball]

We are moving rapidly into an oligarchic form of society. Never before in American history have so few billionaires, so few people have so much wealth and so much power. Never before has there been so much concentration of ownership, sector after sector power of Wall Street. And never before in American history. And we better talk about this. Have the people on top had so much political power. We can't go around the world saying, oh well, you know, in Russia, Putin has an oligarchy. Well, we got an oligarchy here too. And in this last election in both parties, billionaires spent huge amounts of money to elect their candidates.

[Hoda Kotb]

Now, the pathway to this oligarchy was paved with many things. You had Supreme Court decisions opening the floodgates of unlimited campaign contributions. You had the Republican Party's long held position carrying water for the wealthy. And you had their Democratic Party's Clinton era capitulation to these very same forces. All of these developments led to the money over everything nature of the most recent presidential election in which Kamala Harris raised record breaking amounts of cash in a record breaking amount of time. And where Trump openly promised billionaires he would do their bidding if he was elected. Now, his campaign received extraordinary bribes. $100 million from Miriam Adelson, over a quarter billion from Elon Musk. Musk's donation was of a size that at least as far as we know, has never before seen in history. And Trump is already rewarding his big donors with consequential roles in what amounts to a brazen selling of government positions. According to a CNN analysis, nearly three dozen of Trump's key administration picks were donors to his campaign. Now of course rewarding supporters with positions. That is also nothing new. But the size and scope here are truly without parallel. So for comparison, Joe Biden staffed his admin with 12 people who had previously donated to his campaign or affiliated groups. But where those 12 combined for contributions of about $100,000, Trump's key picks, they combined for $37 million in contributions. And that's without including Elon Musk. Who put $262 million in and now has this powerful whole of government position to remake the entire federal government to suit his personal whims and desires. Yes, American oligarchy has been a long time in the making, but in the incoming administration, it is in full bloom like never before. And you can see the telltale signs both in government molding itself to serve favored oligarchs and in the behavior of wealthy elites who are vying for status as favored oligarchs. Toward that end, we've already been witness to some shameful billionaire groveling. According to npr, major Silicon Valley executives like Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg and Sam Altman, who had previously been Trump adversaries, are dishing out millions to the Trump inauguration in order to curry favor with the incoming president. Salesforce CEO Marc Benioff says he is, quote, turning the page on his Trump relationship. And I'm sure it doesn't hurt that Time magazine, owned by Benioff, just declared Trump Person of the Year. Silicon Valley Historian Margaret O'Mara told NPR, quote, Taken together, the donations and other celebratory gestures showcase an industry kissing the ring of an incoming president in hopes of something in return. It's just a recognition that there's not much to be gained in opposition, but perhaps there is something to be gained by being very clear about your support and hope that Trump does well. Now, Trump himself yesterday actually commented on this shameless groveling. Let's take a listen to that. Did you talk about tariffs in that meeting? With who? Apple CEO Tim Cook? I did have dinner with Tim Cook. I had dinner with sort of almost all of them and the rest are coming. And this is one of the big differences, I think, between we were talking about it before. One of the big differences between the first term and the first term. Everybody was fighting me in this term. Everybody wants to be my friend. I don't know, my personality changed or something, but I had, as you know, I had Sundar from Google, but I also had Sergey. Nobody reported that Sergei is the owner, the primary owner, along with his friend, as you know. And Sergei was here also. I can't believe you didn't pick that one up. Nobody picked that up, but I will tell you, no, it's a big difference. The big difference is that the first time everybody was fighting me. No, Mr. Trump, I don't think your personality changed. But apparently their self interested calculus did and they all went in on the spoils of government largesse and to avoid getting crosswise with the new regime. So what does rule by a cabal of billionaires actually look like. Well, effectively. The project is a familiar one. It's a rugged individualism for you and pampered coddling for the favored few. They want to strip away all powers of the government to curb corporate excess while juicing their own tax cuts, subsidies and contracts. For a more granular view of how this project will operate, one person you should pay attention to is Silicon Valley investor Mark Andreessen. Now, Andreessen says that he has been spending half his time in Florida with Trump, helping to staff and guide the incoming administration. He is also a close buddy of Elon, an ally, having invested hundreds of millions in Elon's various ventures and having backed him in his Twitter takeover. In a podcast with Bari Weiss, Andreessen confirmed that he's advising Trump on tech, business, economics and the, quote, success of the country, and is also helping staff up Musk's Doge Commission. Andreessen and Musk have both been upfront about their plan to undercut any government regulator that has ever stood in their or their portfolio companies. In the case of Andreessen's way, they are taking aim at the cfpb, which has been inconvenient for some of Andreessen's scammer portfolio investments the sec, which has had the gall to check Elon on alleged stock manipulation and furthermore has tried to protect people from crypto scams and the nlrb, which allows workers to form unions. In addition, the incoming Trump administration is taking aim at specific regulations that the ascendant oligarchs find inconvenient. Reuters has reported that the Trump transition team is recommending elimination of an automated vehicle crash reporting requirement that has proven irksome to Tesla. Now you can see why Elon might not be a fan of this particular provision. According to the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration, 40 out of the 45 fatal crashes that were reported to the agency under this provision involved a Tesla, including an accident where a driver using autopilot careened into a tractor trailer, and another where a Tesla hit a fire truck, killing the driver and injuring four firemen. And the Trump transition team describes this data collection as, quote, excessive, but it proved extremely valuable in agency investigations, which led to 2023 Tesla safety recalls. In other words, the data collection was good for public safety, but it was bad for Elon. Public didn't give Trump more than $250 million, did they? So Elon apparently wins. Now, this is a comparatively small example, but if it's your loved one behind the wheel of a Tesla car, on autopilot, it becomes a little more significant. And there is no entity outside the government with the power to make sure that as autonomous vehicles become mainstream, drivers, passengers and bystanders are not put at undue risk for profit. Now that applies obviously, not just with vehicles, but with every sector, including the burgeoning AI and crypto sectors which threaten the global financial system, systems of ethics, states, and potentially humanity itself. These billionaires are driven both by ideology and self interest to make sure that their power is unlimited by any pesky checks of representative democracy. Now, such a project requires a continuation of the war on New Deal programs, which, in fairness, Republicans have been waging since the advent of the New Deal itself. Now, that's important to oligarchs for a few reasons. First of all, a secure social safety net and financially stable working class is less desperate. They have more leverage, more ability to tell an abusive boss to piss off and negotiate for higher wages and better conditions. What's more, a government that delivers for people in a meaningful way builds trust. It earns the confidence of the public that imbues it with more potential power to check those oligarch excesses. So it should be no surprise that in a recent interview with Chris Williamson, Andreessen announced his desire to dismantle the remaining vestiges of the New Deal, pining for what he calls a reverse fdr. Take a listen.

[D]

The other lens on this that I think about a lot is Curtis Yarvan, who's also a good friend of mine. And he. The way he describes the American system that's running the people, the way he describes it is we are, we are living under FDR's personal monarchy 80 years later without FDR. Right? And the reason he describes that, he says, look, before fdr, the federal government was actually very small. Like, the tax rates were like super low. The federal government didn't do very much. The FDR dramatically, by orders of magnitude, increased the size of scope of the federal government. He did that for two reasons. One was the New Deal, and then the other was World War II. And so the federal government that Franklin Roosevelt left behind in 1945 when he passed away was the government that he had built, which he had run the entire time from 1933 to 1945 himself, in which he had staffed himself and he had overseen himself and everything. And he built this basically this giant structure. And as Curtis basically says, as long as you had FDR running that, it could run really well. And you know, we won World War II and saved the free world. And like it worked and pulled the US out of depression. Like the whole thing worked and it was great. But if you let an organization of that size and scope run without its founder, CEO for 80 years, you end up with what we have now, which is just like basically an out of control bureaucracy, like an out of control system in which people can't even make positive change even if they want to. Yeah. And again, that's why you could have, in the US you could have reason for optimism, which is. Okay, what do you need? Well, you need another FDR like figure, but in reverse. Right. You need somebody and a team of people around them who's actually willing to come in and like take the thing by the throat and make the changes, by the way. Make the changes that FDR would probably make if he were here to make them. But he's not. Right? And so somebody else has to step up and do that. It has to be a president, because nobody else conceivably has the power to do that. But we will see how much this president can do. But that's a lot of what this administration plans to do.

[Hoda Kotb]

So what you're hearing there, in spite of the modern techno sheen, the Trumpist branding, all of that is a bottom, old school, Koch brothers, Reagan style, Paul Ryan es austerity economics. Austerity for you anyway, not necessarily for them. Also noteworthy and Andreessen's response is the name checking of his friend Curtis Yarvan. Now, Yarvin opposes democracy outright. He would say that himself in favor of either overt monarchy or sort of feudal corporatism, with CEOs functioning as effectively kings. Doubtedly a pretty cool philosophy if you are in line to be one of those corporate God kings. Not so much for those of us who would like to continue having some say in our governance and social contract. Now this raises another important point which helps to illuminate some of the early Trump administration moves. These guys hate democracy. And again, this isn't new. There's a long strain of elite opposition to democratic governance that stretches all the way back to the founding fathers. And the biggest bulwark against an anti democracy ideology is a capable democratically elected government providing clear material benefits. FDR understood this well. He understood how critical that was in his fight against fascism. In one of his fireside chats, he proclaimed, quote, history proves that dictatorships do not grow out of strong and successful governments, but out of weak and helpless ones. If by democratic methods people get a government strong enough to protect them from fear and starvation, their democracy succeeds. But if they do not they grow impatient. So if you believe in democracy, the best way to see it flourish is to build government capacity to deliver for people. And if you hate democracy, the best way to undermine it is to attack the most popular and successful elements of that government. To starve it, to shrink it, to make it incompetent, to make it corrupt. That's why Social Security and Medicare have long been targets for the right and for anti populists in general, it's not in spite of their popularity, but because of it. And the same logic for our government's most popular agencies applies, such as the US Postal Service. Now the USPS does does honestly a truly remarkable job delivering mail to every single location in the country, no matter how remote, on a daily basis. It's a marvel. And it is second only to the National Park Service as America's favorite agency. So naturally, it's now being targeted by Trump for elimination. That has a dual benefit for oligarchs. Not only does destruction of a popular government function further undermine popular commitment to democracy, it also gives an immediate sop to corporations like like UPS and to FedEx. And spoiler alert, delivering to a remote village in Alaska or mountain hamlet in the hollers of West Virginia. It's not profitable. So many rural Americans will almost certainly be cut off from postal service entirely or there'd be price gouged, charged exorbitant fees if Trump allows profit to become king in mail delivery. Cut, deregulate, privatize, but keep the goodies flowing, always to the top. That's the playbook. Pain and sacrifice for the masses, Bonanza of large s for the favored oligarchs. Bernie is right to sound the alarm about American oligarchy because we are watching this project reach new levels of brazenness and control with few checks in sight. And to me, this is my central concern.

[Krystal Ball]

And if you want to hear my reaction to Crystal's monologue, become a premium subscriber today at BreakingPoints.com.

[Savannah Guthrie]

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[Hoda Kotb]

Hi.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Everyone, it's Savannah Guthrie and Hoda Kotb.

[Hoda Kotb]

From the Today Show. We love this time of year. There's so much to celebrate.

[Krystal Ball]

That's right, nobody does the holidays quite like today all season long. Join us for special performances with the brightest stars.

[Hoda Kotb]

Plus festive recipes to whip up the perfect holiday feast.

[Savannah Guthrie]

And great deals on the hottest toys and gifts for everyone on your list.

[Krystal Ball]

So join us every morning on NBC to make TODAY your home for the holidays.

[Hoda Kotb]

All right, Sagra, what are you taking a look at?

[Krystal Ball]

Well, at the risk of sounding like a college junior who just got back from study abroad, I'm about to regale you all about the country of Japan. It's been about two weeks since I got back and it still feels like a dream. That's why I can't shut up about it. Going there genuinely made me question some pretty foundational myths about the United States. It's the only place on earth I've ever been where I would easily consider leaving the US for. Maybe Switzerland. That's it. But since I'm a loyal American and I'm never going to give up on this place, I thought I would take a look at why is it such an amazing place? What can we learn from it? First? This may sound trite, but it is perhaps the most remarkable thing about there are no fat people in Japan. This is remarkable because of how much it cuts across the grain of every other developed society. Japan, by all accounts, should be the opposite. It is a G7 nation, the third largest economy on Earth. It has a population rich enough to afford the creature comforts of life. It is plenty consumerist. And yet they somehow defy the trend in an opposite way to the US and the entire Western world. Japan has an obesity rate of 4%. Compare that to the US of nearly 40%, with the vast majority of our population clocking in at a classification of overweight. So how do they do it? The answer that Johan Hari arrives at is basically culture. Japan has a food culture that prioritizes simple food, high quality ingredients, lots of nutrition. Children are taught and encouraged at a very young age to not eat to excess. Schools can go as far as banning outside lunches to encourage healthy eating that they provide. Furthermore, the government actively penalizes people for being fat. In 2008, they enacted something known as the Metabo Law, which said that once a year every workplace and local government in Japan has to bring in a team of nurses to measure the waistline of adults between the age of 40 and 74. If your measurements are too high, you are referred to counseling and workplaces that must actively help you lose weight. Companies that have too many employees that are fat are then subject to fines. Beyond that though, is what Johan gets to they just have a better lifestyle. Elderly Japanese people gather in public parts almost every morning for group exercise. Day to day life in a city like Tokyo requires traversing several flights of stairs, walking from one place to another. My average step count when I was there was 16,000 per day. Now, of course, I was a tourist, but I could see easily just living. Going to work and going out to eat would require a ton of walking, way more than most Americans do. And what's amazing is that this does not require anything crazy. The Japanese eat plenty of seed oils, they have plenty of candy, they have a lot of junk food, they've got red dye in their cereal. They just don't eat that much of it. If you do, you're publicly shamed. Instead, they just eat variations of fish, meat, rice, fermented vegetables and broth. It is incredible how full that you can feel on such a meal and just how much weight you can lose if you do. In a sense, as Johan writes, the solution is staring us right in the face. It's lifestyle stupid. Building on that is carrying over the reverence for respect of the body to then respect for each other. I cannot tell you how astonishing it is to feel as physically safe in a major city as you do in Tokyo. I have traveled the globe. I've probably been to almost every major city in the United States and arguably every major so called global city. Absolutely nothing compares to Japan. It is difficult to describe, but perhaps best relayed in anecdotes. I witnessed children as young as 7 or 8 years old taking the subway by themselves, walking home in the dark. Their parents have no fear anything will happen to them. You board a train, the conductor doesn't even check your ticket. The assumption is you're just sitting in your assigned seat. You visit a store, there are no smile, you're on camera stickers. There is no fear. People don't steal anything. Take a look at the Apple store in Japan.

[Hoda Kotb]

All the iPhones displayed aren't attached to any security device. The phones just sit on a magsafe charger. Which means you can literally pick them up and examine them without any restrictions. And this doesn't just apply to iPhones, but to other things in the store, like headphones. Like, I could totally just pretend these are mine and walk out, which is crazy. But you know what's even crazier? Even their most expensive devices, like iPads and MacBook Pros, are only connected to one thing, which is the charging cable. So you can literally just unplug the devices and pick them up as you please. The absence of security just goes to show how much trust and honesty is part of the Japanese culture.

[Krystal Ball]

The level of safety is so high, much of the general nuisance of life is removed entirely. When you feel true peace in an urban environment, amazing things can happen. You can send your kids to school without fear. You can open a business without thinking that people are gonna steal from you. Your transaction costs go down because you don't fear being cheated. All of it comes back to respect to a culture. We're at a crosswalk. Nobody, absolutely nobody, will jaywalk. Because it is understood, such a high quality of life is attainable only if everyone mutually agrees not to disturb the peace and to follow the rules. But that when. Finally, what really changed my American heart was this idea. What if the best place in the world is not a place that invents something, but instead refines it? Japanese culture is built on refinement. Its own history is incredible. It was a place entirely closed off from the world for centuries. It woke up one day and was shocked to find itself the potential prey of the imperial Western powers. Instead of succumbing to the imperialist west, they decided to do what they do. But even better, they sent envoys across the globe. They gathered information about technology, railroads, banking, education, and in a single generation, went from a peasant farming feudal society to a rival industrial power capable of destroying the Russian colossus. Their major crime actually was accelerating imperialism and militarism past what even the west would dream of in its conquest of all of East Asia. Eventually, of course, that became their downfall. And yet, even then, from the literal ashes, it rises up to do it all over again. In the last 75 years, it went from a place raised to the ground to the third largest economy in the world. They did it again by not inventing things per se, but by refining them. The Japanese didn't invent the automobile, and yet today, Toyota is the best selling car brand in the world. Why? By refining the car to be cheap, easy to fix, and reliable for the most major purchase that most people on earth will make. This extends to consumer electronics, to fashion, to food, to everything. While I was in Japan, I was just amazed at how the so called best of anything it's there. Best men's Fashion Japan. No question, the level of attention to detail, the cultural reverence of craftsmanship means you can find the highest quality clothing in Tokyo. If you like coffee like I do, you will find yourself oceans away from South America and Africa, drinking the best cup that you will ever find. If you want the best pizza, it's probably in Tokyo. Yes, I know that sounds crazy to the millions of people who flock to Italy every year. Don't take my word for it. Take it from the people who've tried it. The Michelin guide for Tokyo boasts dozens of non Japanese restaurants. Although if you ask me, there's no reason to go and not just eat Japanese food. The same applies for basically every subcategory of western life that requires any attention to detail and craftsmanship. In fact, one way that you know Japan is amazing is that their own population, which is very wealthy by any global standard and can easily afford to travel, has no desire to leave. Only 15% of the population has a passport. Less than 8% speak English fluently. They don't need to or care. They live in a great place. So I'm gonna end with this. If you look for a through line between everything that I've discussed here, it's that culture is more important than anything else. That's why we are absolutely subject to the pressures of our environment. When you have a strong culture and a strong foundation, you can mold that environment to what you most highly value. In Japan, they have decided to mold their environment around mutual respect, prosperity and dignity. That is a very hopeful story that all of us should consider as we decide what type of country that we want to live in. So that's it, Crystal. I love that place.

[Hoda Kotb]

And if you want to hear my reaction to Sagra's monologue, become a premium subscriber [e-mail] thank you guys so much for watching.

[Krystal Ball]

We appreciate you. Counterpoints will have a great show for everybody tomorrow and we will see you all then.

[Savannah Guthrie]

You wake up, put on your Ray Ban Meta glasses, you're living all in. You realize you need coffee so you.

[Hoda Kotb]

Say hey Meta, how do I make.

[Savannah Guthrie]

A latte brew two shots of espresso After Meta AI gets you caffeinated, you're ready for some beats.

[Hoda Kotb]

Hey Meta. Play hip hop music.

[Savannah Guthrie]

You head to meet some friends but can't remember the place.

[Hoda Kotb]

Hey Meta, call Eva Ray ban meta.

[Savannah Guthrie]

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