12/5/25:Bannon Praises Ryan, Hegseth Boat Strikes, Pentagon Press Clowns & MORE!

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar

Episode Title: Bannon Praises Ryan, Hegseth Boat Strikes, Pentagon Press Clowns & MORE!
Date: December 5, 2025
Hosts: Emily Jashinsky, Ryan Grim, Crystal Ball, Macaulay Holmes
Podcast by: iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

This Friday edition of Breaking Points, hosted by Emily Jashinsky, Ryan Grim, Crystal Ball, and Macaulay Holmes (with Krystal and Saagar out), delivers a wide-ranging, lively discussion on anti-establishment stories dominating the headlines. The crew starts with Ryan Grim’s surprising appearance on Steve Bannon’s War Room, then examines controversial US strikes in Venezuela and the shifting stance of the right on foreign policy. They expose troubling developments inside the Pentagon press corps, provide analysis about the newly-arrested January 6th pipe bomber, and critique Palantir CEO Alex Karp’s recent public comments on surveillance, civil liberties, capitalism, and working-class issues. The episode is sharp, irreverent, and unapologetically critical of power, especially where media and government intersect.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ryan Grim on Steve Bannon’s Show: Media Alliances & Ironies

[02:27–07:49]

• The show opens with a light roast of Ryan Grim, who appeared as a guest on Steve Bannon's War Room, being mock-accused of needing to “apologize” for fraternizing with right-wing populists.
• Ryan reflects: It was valuable to bring his reporting to Bannon’s massive audience, especially on UK Labour leader Keir Starmer’s media suppression tactics against both left and right independent outlets, undermining Corbynism and alternative media.
  • “He finishes talking about me being tough as boot leather, which is just comical coming from Bannon—an awfully leathery dude. So he would know.” — Ryan Grim [04:23]
• Ryan clarifies he didn’t softball Bannon or dodge tough questions and shared that he's a “longtime listener, first time” guest.
• The panel jokes about cross-ideological alliances and left-right populism—“MAGA Communism”—noting how strange bedfellows the political tumult has made.

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2. Venezuela Strikes & the Right’s Foreign Policy Drift

[10:33–19:22]

• The team covers escalating US boat strikes in Venezuela, with Pentagon spokesperson Pete Hegseth seemingly responding directly to requests from Turning Point USA (TPUSA) figures on social media.
  • “Your wish is our command, Andrew—just sunk another narco boat.”
• Ryan notes the shift within right-wing populism: once-dovish figures like Charlie Kirk and TPUSA now appear to cheer military interventions, despite Trump-era calls for “America First” isolationism.
  • “It doesn’t feel like the America First world is objecting. They’re all…pretty much fine with it.” — Crystal Ball [13:52]
• The hosts warn of déjà vu with the Iraq War—questioning if average Republicans, increasingly wary of foreign entanglements, will finally balk if this escalates into a full regime-change.
• Mac asks: Will regime change in Venezuela finally split the right? Crystal suggests only a direct, ground-warfare escalation would lead to backlash.

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3. Pentagon Press Corps “Clown Show”: Journalism, Influence, and Access

[19:22–32:58]

• The crew sharply critiques changes at the Pentagon press office, now filled with “influencers” replacing experienced journalists. New members have signed unprecedented agreements not to “report negative information.”
• “What they agreed to…is that they would not ask anybody other than authorized Pentagon officials for information—like, that’s absurd.” — Ryan Grim [21:38]
• The new generation brags about not needing journalism degrees, but Ryan argues they fundamentally misunderstand journalism and source relationships.
• The panel worries about conflicts of interest—some influencer-reporters could be on defense contractor payrolls but have easy Pentagon access.
• A funny, concerning moment arises when Mac notes someone tweeted, “I just spoke to Pete Hegseth, it was off the record, but it was a great conversation,” missing basic media ethics.
  • “We might accidentally get some real news out of these guys!” — Macaulay Holmes [24:33]

Memorable Moment: The “Slurring Pentagon Official”

• They play a Pentagon press audio clip featuring Matt Gaetz grilling a slurring official about the poor performance of the F-35 fighter jet—a moment the show treats with both amusement and concern over government accountability.
  • “I think Gaetz is exactly right: the F-35 is trash, a gigantic boondoggle and another ripoff.” — Ryan Grim [27:53]

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4. January 6th Pipe Bomber Arrest: Narrative Wars & Skepticism

[35:39–53:06]

• Emily breaks down the sudden arrest of Brian Cole for the January 6th pipe bomb incident, observing the FBI used basic investigative tools (cell pings, credit cards) long available to them.
• The panel notes right-wing figures like Cash Patel and Dan Bongino claim the FBI merely re-sifted old evidence.
• Discussion pivots to right-wing and anti-FBI narratives:
  • Did the FBI bury evidence of Antifa involvement to protect an “insurrection” narrative?
  • “Fedtifa” conspiracies—was Cole an FBI asset or linked to larger federal operations?
  • “It seems too strange these things were there and nobody saw them for 15 hours. ... There’s some more weirdness happening.” — Crystal Ball [51:17]
• The group maintains journalistic skepticism about all federal prosecutions:
  • “We should be demanding extraordinary evidence when claims are made…” — Ryan Grim [44:59]

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5. Palantir, Surveillance Capitalism, and the Cult of the Tech CEO

[53:06–68:49]

• The show dissects Palantir CEO Alex Karp’s off-the-wall remarks at the DealBook Summit.
• “He’s our philosopher king, right? ...the surveillance God we deserve.” — Ryan Grim [55:37]
• Karp rails against institutional distrust, boasts how competitors “copy Palantir,” and minimizes the impact of internal dissent, dismissing critics as “the humanities department.”
• Crystal and Ryan explain: While Karp claims Palantir promotes civil liberties, the company’s core product is government mass surveillance—often for ICE, the Pentagon, and law enforcement.
• A deeply dissonant moment: Karp calls Palantir a champion of the working class, despite its ties to repressive policing and military tech.
  • “At Palantir, we are on the side of working-class Americans…we save their lives, we bring them home safer. Our AI makes workers more wealthy...” — Alex Karp [63:35]
• Panel reactions:
  • “How do you go from mass incarceration to ‘we’re making Americans wealthier’?” — Mac [64:54]
  • “All productivity gains have flowed to people like Alex Karp… I don’t see how he can make that claim with a straight face.” — Ryan Grim [65:36]
• The team comments on the “celebrification” of billionaire CEOs and the normalization of public self-justification by those running controversial enterprises (“CEO cult celebrities”).

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Selected Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “He finishes talking about me being tough as boot leather, which is just comical coming from Bannon—an awfully leathery dude. So he would know.”
  — Ryan Grim [04:23]
• “There’s a big opening. Normal Trump voters are like, ‘Whoa, whoa, whoa, why are we doing this?’”
  — Crystal Ball [13:52]
• “You either have to go with the normie conservatives or the fringe bigots to get criticism of Trump…and I feel like there’s a big opening.”
  — Crystal Ball [13:52]
• “What they agreed to in this document…is that they would not ask anybody other than authorized Pentagon officials for information—like, that’s absurd.”
  — Ryan Grim [21:38]
• “We might accidentally get some news out of these guys!”
  — Macaulay Holmes [24:33]
• “I think Gaetz is exactly right: the F-35 is trash, a gigantic boondoggle and another ripoff.”
  — Ryan Grim [27:53]
• “We should be demanding extraordinary evidence when claims are made…you can’t believe what’s in an indictment just because the feds put it there.”
  — Ryan Grim [44:59]
• “He’s our philosopher king, right? ...the surveillance God we deserve.”
  — Ryan Grim [55:37]
• “All productivity gains have flowed to people like Alex Karp… I don’t see how he can make that claim with a straight face.”
  — Ryan Grim [65:36]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Ryan Grim on Bannon/Starmer story: 02:27–07:49
• Venezuela strikes & right-wing response: 10:33–19:22
• Pentagon press corps/Influencer “reporters” segment: 19:22–32:58
• January 6th pipe bomber arrest analysis: 35:39–53:06
• Palantir / Karp commentary: 53:06–68:49

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Conclusion

This episode is a whirlwind through media, foreign policy, state secrecy, and the strangeness of 2025 American politics. The hosts dissect how power brokers—whether politicians, influencers, or tech billionaires—attempt to redefine accountability and transparency, and how independent journalism must respond. For listeners seeking unvarnished analysis, irreverence, and pressing skepticism, it's a hallmark Breaking Points discussion that captures the surreal contradictions of contemporary power.

Transcript

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[Crystal Ball]

Sager and Crystal here.

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[Crystal Ball]

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[Crystal Ball]

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[Emily Jashinsky]

Hope to see you@breaking points.com all right, good morning everyone. It is Friday, December 5th. Welcome to your Breaking Points Friday show. We got Emily, we got Ryan, and we have Macaulay Holmes here in the studio today. How's everybody doing?

[Crystal Ball]

Glad to have you.

[Ryan Grim]

Mac, how you doing?

[Macaulay Holmes]

Fired up. Fired up and ready to go.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Incredible.

[Ryan Grim]

And no Crystal, no Sagar. We'll make it.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Everybody feel free to tune out now or. Or go. Go big in the comments for us. You know, maybe support. Support the Friday show. This. This band of pirates. We have a big show today. We've got more strikes on Venezuela. We're going to be talking to Ryan about his war on the new Pentagon press corps. Uh, we've got some News on the January 6th pipe bomber, then Cash Patel. Uh, we also have a little bit more betting news. Perhaps we'll get into a little bit of Candace Owens vs. TPUSA and perhaps if we have time, even a big. A little bit of Olivia Nuzzy. So, quite a big Friday show planned for you today, but I wanted to start with Ryan. Ryan, we have to ask. You were on Steve Bannon's show yesterday and I'm. Do you have. Are you ready to issue an apology? How dare you.

What happened here? Should we just throw up a clip before Ryan defends himself? Mack, throw up. Throw up a. Throw up a second. Let's just give the audience some texture.

[Macaulay Holmes]

Let's look at some of this glazing that took place yesterday.

[Crystal Ball]

Tropical glazing all over the story.

[Alex Karp]

Look forward to having you back. I want people to start going to your site. Dropsite News. Where do people go? What's your social media?

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, dropsitenews.com on all social. And we're on all social platforms that you know @dropsitenews. Yeah, I think you're. I think the posse will find a lot useful there.

[Emily Jashinsky]

I think they will find a lot.

[Alex Karp]

You're an intrepid reporter, sir, and a voice of truth. Sometimes people love it and sometimes people love it less, but you're. You're a warrior. Thank you so much for joining us. Appreciate you.

[Crystal Ball]

No lies.

[Emily Jashinsky]

You're a warrior, Ryan. No lies detected. How'd it go, Ryan?

[Ryan Grim]

It was hilarious. I. I gotta make. I'm gonna. I guess that's gonna have to be a new semi ironic pin tweet. He finishes talking about me being tough as boot leather, which is just comical coming from Bannon.

Awfully leathery dude. So he would know it was. But it was great to be on because I. He's got a huge audience and we had just published a story this week about how Keir Starmer and his political machine had spent years actively and secretly destroying both left wing and conservative media ecosystems. We covered the story yesterday because one of the outlets that they secretly went after well, they, they went, they went after it publicly, but what wasn't known is that it was Keir Starmer's machine that was behind it. One of those outlets was the Federalist. Emil used to work and, and she remembers the way that, that this was a quite effective actually.

Attack on the monetization of their, of news outlets that were oppositional to them on the left. They effectively destroyed this, this major progressive publication in the UK called the Canary. It's now, it's just now recovering. But they went from something like 20 plus, you know, full time staff and an influential force in UK media to like one person thanks to this, this secret attack. And the whole aim of it was to destroy Corbynism inside the Labor Party and to elevate Keir Starmer. So I don't think Bannon has a whole lot of love for Corbynism, but he does have love for Breitbart, the Federalist and the other right wing papers and, and is against, is against having them censored. So it was a, it was a good outlet to get that story out, by the way, for it, the book, it, it, it's, it's an adapted excerpt and expanded reporting from the book called the Fraud which I have here and which people should get if, if they want to learn the, the nitty gritty about Keir Starmer. It's by Paul Holden, a journalist over in the uk. But yeah, so that was, that was fun. As, as Emily knows, I, I listen to the war room sometimes to, to like keep up with what the populist right is up to. So I'm, I'm familiar with the posse and the shenanigans they get up to.

[Crystal Ball]

It was like a long time listener, first time.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes.

[Crystal Ball]

Situation.

[Ryan Grim]

That's right.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Was there a little bit of a Trump Mamdani energy in the room there? You know, left.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Popular right wing populist.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. Maybe that's what it is.

[Macaulay Holmes]

This is, this is the real MAGA Communism. Right?

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. And people were asking if I asked him about the Epstein connections. I had actually asked him about that two weeks ago for a story that we wrote about Epstein, him and Modi, trying to arrange a meeting between him and Modi. But no, I hadn't, I didn't. You can go watch the interview. I didn't ask questions. I was getting questions asked, asked of me.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Well, we accept your apology, Ryan, for platforming this figure.

[Ryan Grim]

Uh, wait, you just platformed him?

[Emily Jashinsky]

Uh, you're right. We, we're all, we're all stained our blood, our the blood's on all of our hands here. Um, but Ryan, you will be sharing a cell next time. You guys can be bunk mates. There we go in the next Ryan.

[Crystal Ball]

Beat ban into getting arrested by decades.

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[Emily Jashinsky]

Let's get to so our top story today, more strikes in Venezuela. Mac, you can pull it up here.

Pete Hegseth announced yet another strike here and I think another thing that someone flagged is he seemed to do it at the request of a TPUSA producer. Andrew Colvett said, oh, it'd be awesome if we could get more of these strikes. Pete Hegseth quote, tweeted it, Mac, if we could pull that up next and said, yeah, we got it here for you. Your wish is our command. Andrew just sunk another narco boat. So TP USA still very relevant in the conversation here. Ryan, what do we make of this?

[Ryan Grim]

I'm curious how Emily would understand this, but Charlie Kirk, you know, personally lobbied at, at some, at some expense, you know, Trump not to attack Iran. Trump apparently even yelled at him over it. Like Kirk knew that what he was doing was, was risky and was going to cost him a little bit. You now have a TPUSA reporter in the Pentagon press room agitating for new strikes against Iran. And now you've got this TPUSA producer, like, asking, you know, to blow up more, more boats and to burn more, more people alive. That doesn't feel, and maybe I'm, maybe I'm wrong and maybe Kirk would just absolutely love this stuff, but it feels off. Given Kirk's kind of turn towards more America first isolationism.

It'S been interesting because.

[Crystal Ball]

The divide that I expected to be at least a little, what's the best, a little more salient. It's just not there. And I don't know why it's not there. I think maybe people, I would, I would expect it to be quieter if we were actually doing this with like Sinaloa, right? So like if the entire predicate for this alleged operation was more believable that this was actually about the people who are trafficking fentanyl into the country every single year and killing American kids, mixing it up with cocaine or whatever. But even in, in this situation where you have language that feels like it's ripped straight out of 2002 and 2003, I don't know I, I don't know where different people would have fallen down on it. I do know that it's really like the America first world is pretty, they're all, they're fine. Pretty much. Pretty much fine with it. Yeah. I mean, I don't know, but I don't know if actual. I don't think they know how actual, like average Republicans are going to react to this going into the future, because people genuinely are sick of this. And if there's a power vacuum in Venezuela that starts to feel a lot like Iraq in 2003, it's going to look like another blunder. I think pretty obviously it's going to look like another blunder. And one of the big blind spots, I think, on the right is there's a lack of, there's a lack of.

You either have to go with the normie conservatives or you have to go with like the fringe. Fringe, like bigots to get criticism of Trump. And I feel like there's a big opening because there's all kinds of decisions being made that normal Trump voters are like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And normally conservatives aren't pushing the brakes. It's only like the fringe people who are.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, it's, it's interesting. Yeah. Like, yeah, the, the populist right does like the Matt Gates types. They do all seem just fine. Not just fine with it, but like lusting for it.

[Crystal Ball]

Gates had a decent question at that presser. We talked about that already, Ryan, but that was.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, yeah, had another good one. We can get into it in a little bit and berea, the guy he's talking to, not going to say he was drunk, but I'll let people judge themselves.

[Crystal Ball]

You wouldn't say that with the dancer.

[Ryan Grim]

I would never, I would never suggest that they're daydreaming at the Pentagon now that the actual press corps.

[Emily Jashinsky]

We'll get that. We'll get to that in a second. But Mac, my question for you, Mac, is like, you know, it's one thing when we see the politicians like Josh Shapiro signing bombs to go, you know, strike Palestinians, but now it's podcasters.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, yeah.

[Macaulay Holmes]

I mean, I guess my question for Emily is like, if they're kind of going along on the right with the boat strikes, do you think that that dynamic will change? Would there be a fracture if we actually do the full regime change operation? Because that's like an entirely different thing. Like, I can see people excusing blowing up a couple boats in, in the Caribbean, but like full blown regime change in the Western Hemisphere, massive destabilization we're trying to force this Machado woman into power. Like, is that not going to lead to any sort of major divide in the Right. Is everybody just going to sort of fall in line on this? Because it seems like that would be a major fracture point broadly with Americans.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah. And Narco Rubio is really intentionally making the argument that there's nothing more America first than tending to your own hemisphere. That if you're America first, you should be cheering this because it's about hemispheric defense. And I think that's pretty obviously.

[Macaulay Holmes]

Yeah, America first is in like the Americas.

[Crystal Ball]

Anywhere can be America. Anywhere can identify as an American border. But yeah, I think that's why he's.

[Macaulay Holmes]

I think Machado, Machado probably identifies as an American.

[Crystal Ball]

But that's the. That's why they're making that argument. So I think they understand that people are not into regime change wars. I think what actually would really change things and some of this is, you know, American bravado. Like, people don't really worry too much about, like Venezuela, don't feel super threatened by Venezuela. But if American boots that aren't just like CIA boots, but like American troops are in an operation on the ground in Venezuela, I do think you'll have more people looking around and being like, what the hell is going on? Why are we doing this? Right. But honestly, I just think people don't see. It doesn't feel to people like a massive invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan. And so they just, they might not love it, but they also just don't care that much. That's my explanation, I guess.

[Macaulay Holmes]

I just don't, I don't see the, how rapid the flip was between all of the rhetoric on, you know, we're not going to do the sort of unnecessary foreign wars and regime change operations. We're going to be America first. To immediately, it's like, no, the neocons are actually in control. Like, Lindsey Graham is celebrating Trump's actions every day and Marco Rubio seems to be steering the ship. Like, it's just a complete betrayal of, of the vibes, the energy that I feel like the MAGA coalition was trying to form themselves as well.

[Crystal Ball]

Ryan pointed out the, like Charlie Kirk flying to Washington, getting yelled at by Trump over Iran. And I think that's super interesting. And Ryan, you might have more thoughts on that. But people felt like Trump was vindicated with Operation Midnight Hammer and that they were made to look a fool. And, you know, I don't necessarily think that's the case, but that's you know, people felt like they had maybe a little bit of egg on their face and are potentially holding their powder. But that doesn't change. You know, going into a midterm cycle, the average right of center voter is like, my grocery bills are still high. And you guys are. You have people on the ground in Venezuela, like, what are we doing? So it doesn't change the possibility of that happening for them in the midterm year too.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, I think people, when it came to the Midnight Hammer, people were happy that Trump did not do more than 12 days of bombing. And so kind of just all collectively decided to pretend that he was a champion for stopping his own bombing. Like, he, you know, he's out there celebrating himself for reaching this ceasefire, which is like, you're the one doing the firing. It's like all you have to do is stop shooting. So congratulations. And because the kind of populist isolationist right. Wanted that to happen. They were like, okay, cool. Like, yeah, great job, Trump. But I don't think anybody really actually genuinely celebrates his, like, starting a, you know, starting a bombing campaign and then ending it.

[Crystal Ball]

Right.

[Ryan Grim]

Except, well, basically never ending bombing campaign and occupation of Iran. Yes, we'll. That's. That's true.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Well, speaking of celebrating and trying to add some, some public positivity to the mix on all these foreign affairs, this leads us nicely to Ryan, your war with the new Pentagon press corps here in D.C. mack, can you throw up the. Some of the first images? I got two images here.

[Macaulay Holmes]

Let's get the. The group. The group photo.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Let's get the group photo in first. Now, there's been a. Now, right, correct me if I wrong, but basically all the people in this photo have signed something saying that they will not leak or basically report any information that they get that would be considered negative or there will be no.

[Macaulay Holmes]

Journalism occurring intrusive in this photograph.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah, and we've got another one here. Max, can you throw up the second one here? They've been taking photos of themselves doing photo shoots in these empty offices that the journalists used to occupy. Now the, the influencers are here doing photo shoots. Uh, we've got a what an infamous cam Higby here, He's been one of the main provocateurs and his caption here for people listening says journalism degrees are useless and needlessly expensive. I just proved it. Uh, Ryan, what. What are we supposed to make of all this?

[Crystal Ball]

I mean, he's right about that.

[Ryan Grim]

He is. I'm pretty sure that at Dropsite News, we don't have a single person with a journalism degree, like, at all. I mean, we're about 10 journalists, I think, on staff at this point, and I'm pretty sure none of them have. None of them went to journalism school. He's correct that you do not have to go to journalism school, but if I were him, I would stop boasting about my lack of education like that. Like, just him personally, like, in general, it's good. That's fine. You don't need to go to journalism school. This guy specifically doesn't seem to understand what journalism is. He. He and his friends are out there saying that the previous press corps was bad because they were adversarial. They used the word adversarial with negative connotations.

He said they were harassing the press secretary. The press secretary there said that they would knock on her door all hours of the day and come in and ask her questions.

[Emily Jashinsky]

That's the level of assault.

[Ryan Grim]

Sometimes other journalists would have an appointment and a second journalist would come in with that journalist and also ask her questions.

And also they would stand outside the secretary of Defense, sorry, now the secretary of war's office to wait until he came out to see who he was meeting with. Like, these were the examples that she was giving that he was elevating as the kinds of things that you should. That the press corps, you know, was embarrassing itself by doing. Laura Loomer went even further, saying, it's illegal to classify to nothing wrong with what she signed because it's illegal to publish classified information that goes beyond what this new Pentagon press corps even agreed to. What they agreed to in this document that they shamefully signed is that they would not ask anybody other than authorized Pentagon officials for information like, that's absurd. What the document does allow for is if you, even if you don't, as long as you don't ask and somebody comes up to you and says, hey, I have information for you.

Then you're allowed to publish that according to this document. Now, like, how. How are you supposed to confirm that? Like, let's say somebody hands you a document that's classified and says, like, this is a war crime. You should go out and report this according to the Pentagon's rules that they agreed to. You can't then go to any other sources with that and say, this is what I've heard. Can you confirm that this is true? So.

It appears like they don't understand what journalism is, because what they've agreed to do is just when the press secretary wants to talk to them, the press secretary Will talk to them. Don't ask her any questions except during a briefing. Don't knock on my door.

Whether or not sending an email to the press secretary council.

[Macaulay Holmes]

Didn't one of these guys put out a tweet yesterday that was like, I just spoke to Pete Hegseth for a little interview. It was off the record, so I can't tell you anything that was said, but it was a great conversation.

[Ryan Grim]

And what's, what's funny too is that the, the Pentagon might end up regretting bringing in people who have no idea what they're doing because some of these guys came out of this off the record meeting and started talking about like what, what questions were asked and what they would and wouldn't answer. And it's like, I mean, I'm all for these guys breaking their off the record vows that they make to the, to the Pentagon officials, but like, that's not what off the record means. Like off the record means it's off. It's like off the record.

But these guys don't know. I just, I don't think that they were like being deceitful. I just think they don't know like the basics of journalism. And so they're like, it was off the record. And this is what he said. It's like.

[Macaulay Holmes]

So we might, we might accidentally get some, some news out of these guys.

[Ryan Grim]

We, we might. Now another problem that, or another problem that it at least raises concerns. So do you see my, my Matt Gaetz.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

So Gates, we should play this because it's fun, it's funny, and you guys will see why it's funny as you, as you listen to this guy slurring his words through the answer. But also, and maybe Matt Gaetz is just really fired up about like the performance of the F35 platform. And I know he has been for a long time. But, but when you bring in non regular press corps that doesn't have the same kind of standards, how do we know whether or not these reporters have consulting contracts with other weapons contractors? Like, so if you, if you're going to have, if you're going to just let anybody in who will sign this document, let's say they are working for Raytheon. Let's say they're working on the side for Raytheon or a lobbyist that worked for Raytheon doing some consulting work and then they start asking questions about how awful this like Lockheed project is. Like, the Lockheed project might be terrible, but it's like, do we, do we feel comfortable that this stuff is on the up and up. So let's, let's roll the gates thing. And I'm not saying he's getting paid by Raytheon or whatever. I don't, I don't know. But like, what do we know about.

[Matt Gaetz]

This platforms that I've long been a critic of? I'll start with the F35. They cost about $100 million a copy. What percentage of the F35 are fully mission capable today? So that's a great question, Matt, and I appreciate you getting after it because.

[Crystal Ball]

Not enough.

[Matt Gaetz]

Not enough. It is the most capable fighter that we have right now. When it flies. When it flies. You're right. It is the most capable fighter. What we have right now, and you saw last, just last month in the acquisition speech, is a department and leadership that's willing to get after it to challenge industry to produce better. Yeah, but what, what percentage of them can fly? So not enough.

[Alex Karp]

Not enough.

[Matt Gaetz]

So yeah, but you just called it our most capable platform. And less than 40% of them by my last review of the Air Force's statements are fully mission capable. Why is it not failure for a platform to perform at less than 40% when it costs $100 million? So Matt, looking at it holistically, sure, you can throw out the number 40%. But when you look at Operation Midnight Hammer, Operation Rough Rider, Those weren't after F35. Was not, was not delivering the payload on Midnight, but they were supporting. Right. And so those B2s wouldn't have gotten there without that the airplane. What would have stopped them? There are plenty of surface to air missile systems that the Iranians have. We know that.

[Crystal Ball]

We know.

[Matt Gaetz]

Did they shoot any of them? No, they didn't because we were so desperate. That platform, the F35 is an amazing platform that can go after these video.

[Macaulay Holmes]

Okay, what.

Is going on in that interview? Ryan, I know you had some, some commentary attached to this tweet here.

[Ryan Grim]

I mean, yeah, I was saying maybe the, this new press corps cam and the others can find out if, if they're day drinking at the Pentagon now.

And not that there's anything wrong with that. 9. I don't know. Hey, go for it.

[Crystal Ball]

But.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, but then, and I think Matt Gates is exactly right, by the way, that the F35 is trash. It's a gigantic boondoggle. It's, it's one more ripoff of the American taxpayer and our military industrial complex. But I also don't know like who, who's planting, you know, who's seeding those questions like it, that's that's, that's the, you know, that's. Now the old press corps is part of the old, is part of the military industrial complex too. Like they benefit, you know, a lot of the trade press, you know, sells their, you know, products to Lockheed and you know, sells our newsletters and whatnot to like Lockheed.

[Crystal Ball]

Oh yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Not even the trade press and all the others.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah, even even like Politico, Axios, Politico, Raytheon.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, like weapons makers are major funders of Washington journalism. So it's not like it would be unique but, but, but it's like acute corruption versus like general corruption.

I don't know. Yeah, it's a. And all of this happened right after this, this second strike on September 2nd. Like if you look at the timeline Hegseth recreated, you know, what it means to be a Pentagon reporter after this. And people who are close to him think that those things are connected, that he was doing this as an effort to stop the Pentagon press from looking into the war crimes that they're committing.

[Crystal Ball]

So I feel like they would be doing this regardless because the Pentagon and Ryan, you'll know this better than I do, but the Pentagon is this massive sprawling building and if you give reporters a physical foothold in the door, which they had. And you're Pete Hegseth. And you know, there are a lot of decisions that Pete Hegseth might make to upset the war machine that we might like. There are some that are not going to upset the war machine that we will definitely dislike. For example, the boat strikes. But there are a lot of like old school Pentagon people in there that definitely are leaking to reporters. And so I feel like they were trying to figure out a way to make that stop and landed on this bizarre policy. So I feel like they were going to do this no matter what at some point because they don't want these like Jennifer Griffin of Fox News who hacks have snapped at. If everyone remembers in that presser, they cannot stand the people who have had their offices there forever and they know they've got those, they're getting those coffees with the leakers. People are coming in and out, all of that stuff. Because yes, you can send classified information over signal, for example, you can leak it over signal, for example, but it's a whole lot easier to say something in person so they, they know.

[Emily Jashinsky]

So that's why I think it would.

[Crystal Ball]

Happen no matter what.

[Emily Jashinsky]

So Pete, Pete Hexith takes over their department, has famous, had, had a drinking problem. Now I guess everyone at the department has A drinking problem. I've never, I've never seen, I've never seen someone have to slur surface to air missile system. That's hard to say drunk. That's a tongue twister. But Emily, to your point earlier about there being sort of like this like open area where for like there, there's a, there's an open niche for a more normal person to critique the Trump administration or what have you. Perhaps it's not going to be happening with Cam Higby and this press corps.

[Crystal Ball]

Are.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Are there other people that you could say like, oh, like maybe this person could come up and rise, rise to the moment or are we just seeing like a lack of a bench in the, in the conservative commentator sphere and journalist sphere?

[Crystal Ball]

I always wait for Matt Gates to do it, honestly, because Gates is on foreign policy, like really sharp about these types of things. It's mostly the foreign policy. You know, he was trying to, he was get rid of the aumf, he was trying to get our troops out of Africa. Like he's actually very opposed to a lot of the old school, not neocons, but like even America first type people who have neocons, neoconservative sympathies. So it's there for the taking if Gates wants it. He definitely dabbles in it, that's for sure. Sager is somebody who does it. But Sager's like definitely detached himself from the broader conservative movement and isn't like really a part of that world. So there's definitely, there's a lot of room and there. I think people are misunderstanding why a lot of folks turn to like the French commentators. It's like they're the only ones criticizing this insane Venezuela policy. Like, that's it. Like, where else are you going to get it? You either have to like, listen to the left or, I don't know, like Ben Shapiro.

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[Emily Jashinsky]

Wow, a plethora of options here. Well, I wanted to move us to this next story. Emily, I want to throw to you for this one. This is the January 6th Pipe Bomber, folks. We got him. Mission accomplished, Mac, if you could throw up this tear sheet and Emily, you could kind of fill in the details, but it says the Trump DOJ has suspect Brian Cole arrested and facing explosive charges. What do we know about Brian Cole? Emily?

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah, we're starting to learn more. So what happened is out of absolutely nowhere yesterday the FBI announced that they had made this arrest. They had a very vague press conference and then Cole was charged in court. So Cole was in Woodbridge, Virginia, so a suburb of Washington D.C. and 30 year old right now. So would have been about 25 back in 2021. The charging document, I have it up on my, my screen says he is 5ft 6 inches tall and wears corrective eyeglasses. That actually is important because as the hoodie suspect who placed those pipe bombs behind the Republican National Committee and the the DNC then as well was said to be roughly in that height range. Sort of a short person for a man, if it was a man. But now the blaze came in hot a couple of weeks ago and accused a woman who currently works for the CIA of being the person in the hoodie. According to gait analysis, they retracted that story yesterday. This person has an alibi. They were said to be working for Capitol Police at the time. So all that is to say the charging document makes it look a whole lot like the FBI under the Biden administration had all of the pieces of the puzzle and just did not put them together. And maybe that was for a nefarious, maybe that was out of incompetence. You know, it's always important to remember incompetence is a good explanation for a lot of what happens in D.C. but for example, during 2019 and 2020 the affidavit says Cole purchased multiple items consistent with the components that were used to manufacture the pipe bombs placed at the RNC and DNC. The FBI obtained records for the checking account and three credit cards for the time period from January 2018 to January 2021. Three additional credit cards were obtained for the time period of January 2018 to November25. The FBI reviewed the trans transaction history for all of these accounts. It looks like it was really basic police work to be honest. And the pieces probably could have been put together a long time ago.

[Emily Jashinsky]

So where the they pinged, they pinged a cell tower and then they found that he bought parts and equipment. Right. For the bomb.

[Crystal Ball]

Right, exactly. So like pipe heads, all of those things, they were able to again do what's fairly basic police work. And so the where this is going politically, Cash Patel, Dambongino, Pam Bondi, they have all said that there was nothing new that they did. They were just combing through the pre existing investigation and looking for scraps of information that may already be there. Obviously they didn't trust the investigation. And from there, they kind of found a break in the case. They said it was, quote, forensic evidence. So where this is going politically is already leaks have gone into different media publications that Brian Cole may have some antifa connections. It looks like his family is left wing. Everyone should be careful with that, too, because that could. Even if that is, quote, antifa, even if he does have some type of, like, antifa motivation, you then have to ask what the FBI's involvement with that antifa group might have been. Because that's where this is all heading, is if the FBI was aware of this information years ago, why did they stop? Or why did they not figure it out publicly, at least? I think there's some open.

[Macaulay Holmes]

That's an interesting point.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah. And.

There were. They were very coy about assets in the crowd and actual agents of the crowd on January 6th for a long time. And then Thomas Massie and others kind of forced them to come to the table and say they did have assets who were there, some who were just there by happenstance. They had been working with the FBI as informants, essentially. And were there others? I think it was a couple, at least, that were there intentionally. So I was at January 6th, I was, like, reporting and good to clarify. Yes, I always have to clarify. Reporting, quote, unquote, reporting. Well, actually, I started that day at the Ellipse at Trump's speech because there had been, like, legit antifa activity on BLM Plaza, which was right where Trump's speech was going to be that whole summer. And so that's why I went down there that day. And I ended up walking and trying to get interviews with people who were walking over to the Capitol. And I saw legitimate, genuine MAGA people be whipped into a frenzy. Like, that was not. They were. They were not. It wasn't just a crowd of feds. It was a lot of, like, average. You know, I saw a soccer mom at one point, like, ushering people over, you know, was like, the craziest thing I've ever seen was not a crowd of feds. There are a lot of people who have come out since because they were prosecuted for it, told and said exactly why they did what they did. It's because they thought the election was being stolen. So if there are feds, we need to know if they were people contributing to the whipping of MAGA into that frenzy. We need to know. It doesn't undermine the fact that there were a whole lot of people that did heinous illegal activity that day who weren't, you know, just doing It. Because feds were whipping them up and telling them to. They have agency, too. So I do think. And, Ryan, I'm curious what you make of that. That's where this is heading is a question of whether the FBI just didn't want some type of. Of link to the pipe bomb placement, which has always been very weird. They didn't want some. Some type of link to it to come out into the public view.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, I think they're gonna have to explain why it took this long to make an arrest if they weren't really relying on any new information, and they were just, you know, that it was out there for them. I think also the Blaze looks like they're gonna cook over this. You know, that that story that they did, immediately, when you read it reeked of defamation. You're like, hold on. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You're like.

You know, the. The defenses against defamation are, you know, one, if they're a public figure, then there's a much higher bar for that public figure to be able to come after you for saying something false about them. This woman that they singled out was not remotely public figure.

And seemed to have a decent alibi. So, like, if you're. If you. In their retraction, you know, they. It's clear the retraction was written by a lawyer, and they're saying, like, you know, we. We published this information in, you know, good, good faith with the. With our belief that it was accurate, but we're now retracting it because it looks like it isn't. But in order to get out of defamation, you have to show that you. You know, that you. That you. You know, if they can show that you knew or should have known that what you were writing was false.

Then you're in trouble, and they kind of should have known because, you know, she had a real alibi. They didn't really have enough evidence to stack on the other side of that. This, like, weird. Like, they compared her gait and, like us, like, they did some gait analysis. It's like, whoa, guys, you can't accuse somebody of being a pipe bomber.

And the other thing you need for defamation is to prove, like, actual damages. And I can imagine that this woman suffered, like, legitimate, serious, genuine damages from millions of people thinking that she's a pipe bomber.

So I think, you know, Blaze, Blaze. Blaze's defamation insurance is going to get a workout, I would suspect, from this.

[Emily Jashinsky]

So, Ryan, what do you make of the evidence on Brian Cole? Now, there is this. They say that they pinged or his cell phone pinged cell towers that were in the area. We have this, like, these photos, this video footage. And, you know, they say that he bought parts that could create a bomb, but those parts are bought over the course of months if, if not years, if I'm mistaken.

[Macaulay Holmes]

So he went to several different years, and he also went to multiple different locations, it looks like.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Now I believe everything Cash Patel says. That's my, that's my particular hill that I die on on this show. But, Ryan, what is your. What's your believe meter at right now?

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah, Ryan, are you with, are you with Massie on this? Let's see what they've got. I'm not buying it. Thomas massie Posted at 9:22am yesterday after the arrest was announced.

[Ryan Grim]

I. I think it is. I think it is good practice to always be skeptical of all federal indictments that like that. Just as citizens, we should be demanding extraordinary evidence when, when claims are made so that, like, you can't, you can't believe what's in an indictment just because the feds put it in an indictment.

You know, we'll see. You know, I'm not, I'm certainly saying I'm, I'm not on. I'm not saying he's didn't do it either. Like, I don't know that for, for certain either.

[Macaulay Holmes]

I mean, who knows if this is all that they have? But it does seem like a lot of the stuff that's. That you're putting up here, Emily, is just like circumstantial stuff. Like, you would need more than this to actually convict him, right? To say, oh, well, he bought some component parts and his phone was generally in the area. But, like, that wouldn't be enough for a conviction, right?

[Crystal Ball]

I guess it'll depend on the jury. I mean, if you're, you're pinging, if your cell phone, you live in Woodbridge and your cell phone's pinging in the area of the RNC and DNC the night of January 5th.

[Macaulay Holmes]

The.

[Crystal Ball]

Well, they have video of the bombs being placed, if you roughly resemble the person on the video. And then they have this, these credit card records here. Well, also, the other thing that we're. We're missing is his car was a half a mile from the bombs, where the bombs were on January 5th. So it was parked on Capitol Hill. And then they have all of these credit card records that see him allegedly buying the black end caps for those pipes. And if people don't remember what the pipe bombs looked like, it is always worth revisiting they're so hilarious. I'm sorry, but like, they look cartoonish. They have literal like oven timers.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Go get those for us.

[Crystal Ball]

Pvc.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah.

[Crystal Ball]

That's completely insane.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Like something I would make.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah. I, with Ryan, like always be completely skeptical of all this stuff.

[Macaulay Holmes]

He can't be a real antifa member. He's not a real antifa super soldier. Cuz they would have, they would have had spotless.

[Ryan Grim]

They would use. They would use cash at the Home Depot.

[Macaulay Holmes]

Right, right. Well, I think they said in the indictment that he did use cash. Of other places. Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Oh, at other places he use cash.

[Macaulay Holmes]

Yeah, at some of these places have.

[Ryan Grim]

Video of him going and buying it, I guess.

[Macaulay Holmes]

Yeah. Or maybe a cell phone pinging or something like that. Here, I got a picture here of what one of these pipe bombs supposedly.

[Crystal Ball]

These are wild.

[Macaulay Holmes]

So I guess that's what. That's what it looks like according to. I mean. Yeah, he's got the. It's a kitchen timer. It's like a literal kitchen timer that you would have. And then it's. Yeah. Wiring into the pipe. But yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

And you know.

I imagine the detectives were like, okay, there's only a few hand Home Depots, you know, within 10 miles of here.

[Macaulay Holmes]

But. But who amongst US hasn't purchased 12 black end caps and two galvanized end caps from four different Home Depots in Northern Virginia? Yeah, we've all been there, bro.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, you got to get your. Gotta go to Ohio or whatever to get your. And like, it does show. Like, this is not the 1970s. Like, they can, they're gonna catch you doing this stuff. Like, you can take, you can pay in cash, you can take precautions.

But you know, the, the surveillance state is impressive.

[Macaulay Holmes]

Yeah.

[Emily Jashinsky]

So.

[Ryan Grim]

So Emily, what's not even that hard? Just like, hey, Home Depot, like, who bought 12 caps and a kitchen?

[Emily Jashinsky]

They're narcs. They're narcs.

[Ryan Grim]

As we know, Home Depot is going to knock you out. Like, Home Depot, like if you're 10.

[Crystal Ball]

Out of 10 times.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes. If you thought Home Depot was ride or die for you. No, not happening.

[Emily Jashinsky]

So Emily, like, what is this larger significance of this January six pipe bomb around the event of January six? And like, what is the Trump administration or DOJ trying to do with this to kind of like maybe reframe or recontextualize the events? Because what I know from the pipe bombs is that a lot of the authorities said that those pipe bomb threats diverted resources during really crucial hours that could have allowed them to contain more of the January six event and also this sense that, well, if the bombs were placed, that some of this was premeditated. Right. That this wasn't just an in the moment fervor, but if someone planted these bombs, that there was a larger plan before the Trump rally and yada yada, what do you make of all that?

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah. So I'll read a post here from Julie Kelly, who's one of the kind of people on the right who's followed this really closely. She said this is where she's going with it. She says Washington Post also reporting Cole's quote unquote extremist political views. As I've already said on an interview this morning, it appears the Ray FBI buried the pipe bomb investigation in early 2021 after discovering the hoodie individual seen on January 5th was not MAGA but was ANTIFA. That would have not only decimated the developing January 6th insurrection narrative at the time, but completely contradicted Ray's early insistence that Antifa played no role in January 6th huge scandal. If true, I'm saying that just to give a sort of flavor of where everyone's going with this. But I think it does test a couple of the narratives that people on the right have had going into this. Which is one of them was, was that, you know, there were in, in the circles and people on the right who followed this story closely, they would point out, rightfully point out, that first of all there are bomb sniffing dogs around the DNC at the time that the alleged pipe bomb was there. Nobody caught it. Kamala Harris was being moved around through that area. There was no like intense about the fact like it's. That stuff was genuinely a bit strange. The man who was one of the FBI officials overseeing the Gretchen Whitmer Fed kidnapping plot as Nick Turse and others. And Terse is still at the intercept. Right. Ryan, that was.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah.

[Crystal Ball]

And I think you probably were still there when that reporting was happening. Probably edited some of that. Yes, excellent reporting. And that guy had been reassigned to D.C. and all of a sudden J6 pipebomb, all of stuff happens. And so the suggestion by people who bring that up is whether any of this was organic. So what that tests is this idea that it's Antifa, unless Antifa is like working hand in glove with the feds. And so I don't think anybody has a clear victory.

Like a clear narrative victory going forward. There's just so much. The pipe bomb story is just. It's very hard to believe that some random lib did all of this and all of the strange Stuff that happened afterwards was just because Chris Ray was trying to bury an antifa plot. I don't know. Honestly, I think there's some, some more weirdness happening. It just, it seems too strange that these things were there and nobody saw them for 15 hours. Nobody caught them for 15 hours. But yeah, to Griffin's point, that is the implication is that in some way the pipe bombs were used to divert resources from the capital so that the Capitol would fall and then you would have this like false flag thing to pin on maga. So it gets really weedy and complicated with pipe bomb theories. But if the, if what the MAGA FBI is saying is that it was just an antifa guy and there was no FBI involvement then other than burying the story, then some of those logic.

[Macaulay Holmes]

Though, like what would be the narrative then that they're trying to sell, if it was an antifa guy, that he just happened to do this the day before to try to pin it on MAGA or something or what. What's the logic behind that?

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah, to create. Yeah, that, that's, that's why I think it challenges some of those narratives because.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Or that the FBI put him up to it. Yeah, it could be that too. Yeah.

[Macaulay Holmes]

The Fed, the Fed line makes a lot more sense to me.

[Crystal Ball]

I agree.

[Emily Jashinsky]

But it could be Fed tifa, could be a combination of both.

[Crystal Ball]

So possible. Mac, you've seen that, haven't you? You've seen Fed tifa, you've seen that.

[Macaulay Holmes]

We've, we've seen a couple Fed tifa's out there.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Oh, on your DC protest observations, you've.

[Macaulay Holmes]

Seen Atlanta a few times.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, very interesting.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah.

[Crystal Ball]

That's a thing.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Well, It's a thing. January 6th. The, the story that keeps on giving. I wanted to move us over to Palantir and the deal book summit. What a summit that happened. All sorts of characters that Andrew Ross Sorkin was speaking to. But we wanted to focus on CEO Alex Karp of Palantir who, who was getting really excited about his business. I think that's the most, I don't know, PC way to describe it.

[Crystal Ball]

Griffin, I love how you shepherd us through these, the news stories like it's American Bandstand. Like let's move on to Palantir.

[Emily Jashinsky]

I'm trying to, I'm trying to keep a brisk pace because we have so many stories to get to. Mac, why don't we play this first clip from CEO Alex Karp.

[Alex Karp]

What is the biggest problem in this culture? I'll tell you the biggest problem. No one believes the institutions are Credible. And why don't they believe they're. And I struggle to. To believe they're credible, too, because these business leaders make completely stupid decisions and they get bailed out. A year later, they're getting huge bonuses. What do the American people get? Nothing. That's a huge problem. Like, if you make. So I think the real version is, like, I made a lot of decisions when we began talking, annoying each other 10 years ago. Hopefully I'm annoying you as much as 10 years ago or more when, When. Oh, man, I made, you know, this. Every decision Palantir made. FDA's going public, building products, no enterprise, large data sets. Going to government, acknowledging American superiority, being pro meritocracy, launching an AI platform, calling into question that AI models would actually be able to perform without orchestration. Every single one. Every single. Or ontology. Every single one of those was viewed as stupid. You know what I actually have grown to appreciate about capitalism? All the people who made the right decisions, went broke, are going out of business, or now have to copy us. Microsoft launched ontology. Everyone wants to do FDEs. Everyone basically copies me and Palantir.

[Macaulay Holmes]

This. This is the stable leadership that I want in charge of my mass surveillance death company.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Everyone that we watch now is like, yeah, I mean, is everyone that we watch now either drunk or geeked out? I mean, Ryan, like, what do we make of this? Like, this Alex Karp guy, I mean, he's the.

[Ryan Grim]

He's our philosopher king, right? You know, he's. He's the. He. I guess he's the surveillance God that we deserve. This is. We're headed to a pretty. Pretty dark place, and the people that we're empowering.

Aren'T. Aren't obscuring from the public, you know, who they are and what they're about.

[Emily Jashinsky]

We also have another clip here, Mac, where that's, you know, slightly more substantive about the inner workings of the Palantir business here and then that he talked about eliminating or not valuing the humanities department of Palantir. Why don't we take a listen to that?

[Alex Karp]

Take the media out of it. There's a group of 13 former Palantir employees who wrote an open letter to you, and they stated, quote, that Palantir's leadership has abandoned its founding ideals. We have 5,000 ex Palantirians and 4,000 current Palantirians. And by the way, we encourage a culture of disagreement which you know, exists. Anyone can come visit us. You'll find half the people disagreeing with me, at least on any issue. But I just want to say we have 5,000 ex Palantirians. You have 13, half of whom were like in the humanities department of Palantir, which is a little bit like being in the printing press, part of New York Times, a very important part. But no one's really listening to your opinion. So it's like, it's. Yeah, you know, if you, if you have an organization, I'll tell you what, a lot of Palantirians, Palantirans are mostly uncomfortable. Most Palantirians are like you. Okay. I don't know who you are because you're an objective journalist, but they broadly are okay with. They, they like the work we do in Ukraine. By the way, could Europeans finally stick up for us since we're basically between us and Russia?

But they're very proud of that in general. Although that's also very controversial in non elite circles. That's important to remember. They're pretty okay with Israel stuff, especially since a lot of the BS written about us on the right, primarily, not primarily on the left, that somehow we're doing facial recognition stuff and we're building a database. Any technical person knows that's BS by the way. If you've heard that and you believe that, listen to the person who told you that. Do 10 minutes of research and you'll see who has credibility for you.

[Macaulay Holmes]

So is he, is he denying there at the end that he's working with the Israelis on targeting in Gaza? Is that what he was doing at the end there?

[Crystal Ball]

I think what he's doing is denying and it is a sort of cliche about Palantir mistake that some people make, which is that they are themselves doing the like cctv, like pulling all of that data. Instead what they do, as though this is much better, is helps the government streamline the analysis of these mountains and mountains of data. Technically that's I think the distinction that he's trying to make. And obviously it is a real distinction, but it's still there. They're still obviously massively bolstering the surveillance state. Palantir was started with a. With money from the CIA's venture capital firm, which is a thing that exists. And the, one of the reasons is that Thiel had this idea to outsource surveillance analysis in a way that was like civil libertarianism. And the CIA obviously sees that and is like, great, you have the veneer of civil libertarianism for this massive surveillance analysis technology. And Thiel claims that it's better and carpool claim that it's better that Palantir does it than the Government itself or someone else, because Palantir has all of these guardrails and civil liberties and that sort of thing. So that's. I mean, that's where they go with this. But, you know, I don't think anyone's happy to say, like, oh, or anyone's, like, super supportive of the idea that people are making massive profits off of streamlining the analysis of mass surveillance.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And, Ryan, what do you think about the checks and balances within the Palantir if he's not really listening to anyone in the humanities department?

[Ryan Grim]

Do they have a humanities department? I don't even understand what that means. I was just searching. Now.

Maybe he's referring colloquially to some other department that they do have. What would a humanities department do at Palantir? But, sure, I don't know. Maybe there's some room for disagreement in there. But Karp seems like a guy that doesn't lack for confidence and that.

He'S going to make a decision, he's going to execute it, and I think he'd be proud of that. His point is fair, that, all right, you got 9,000 current and former employees. You're going to be able to find some.

That are critical of it.

Whether or not people inside Palantir are critical of it, I think, like, basically the entire world is like, I wish this wasn't happening. Wish this company was not doing the things that this company's doing, but they're still doing it. So.

[Macaulay Holmes]

And I think there is something to be said about, like, this. This bizarre era of the. The billionaire celebrity, the CEO celebrity, with how comfortable all of these people who are doing, I think, objectively evil things around the world, doing public appearances like this, publicly defending themselves, trying to be celebrities, to hype up, you know, their. Their stocks and things like that. I think there's something deeply dark about that, in my view, because I feel like a long time ago in this country, we used to have billionaires sort of just mind their own business and just sort of fade into the background. And now it's like every single one of them has to be out in the public eye. They have to be celebrated. They have to be praised. They have to, you know, be viewed as some sort of, like, God. And I think there's. There's something extremely dystopian about that.

[Crystal Ball]

The other thing worth mentioning is that Karp is. Has been for a long time like a Democratic donor who backed Kamala Harris in 2024, which is just hilarious on so many different levels. He was against Donald Trump. He said he was voting against Donald Trump. And then Palantir has just been showered with contracts in the Trump era from Republicans. One big beautiful bill and such. So it's all. I mean, they're. They're winning no matter what at the end of the day. And, you know, so he was.

[Emily Jashinsky]

He was a K hiver.

[Crystal Ball]

He was in the K hive.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Wow.

[Macaulay Holmes]

He was doing mass surveillance on the.

[Ryan Grim]

Bernie Bros. Maybe he made the K hive.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah. But, yeah, to max point, there is this sort of like, unimpeachableness about all these guys going out there. I mean, we had the call, she CEO who looks like a SoundCloud rapper, saying that we're going to financialize, like, every aspect of your life. We've got Peter Thiel being like, I am not the Antichrist. Wink, wink, wink. Like, yeah, it seems like there are these terrible, terrible public advocates for their businesses that could only make you concerned or worried about the future, which is the exact opposite of what a spokesman should be for a company, which to me only kind of like, exudes the fact that. How unimpeachable. How kind of. They have the whole keys to the kingdom here and they can say whatever the hell they want.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah. I mean, the Palantir is not going anywhere. And the reason I mentioned that is to say it's not going anywhere in a Dem administration either. Like, it's. Palantir is here to say the government is addicted to Palantir's analysis software. So that's. That's our future.

[Macaulay Holmes]

Should we listen to this? This last clip that we have of him, I guess, trying to portray Palantir as being a champion of the working class somehow. Let's go ahead and watch this last one.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Maybe he watches War Room with Steve Bannon.

[Alex Karp]

In this country.

You have 1% of the country in prison. 1% who were in prison and therefore have no rights. Do you know what happens to you when you go to prison? They take you away from your kids. You know who that happens to? Disproportionately working class. Disproportionately black and Hispanic men and white men in the underclass. Where are the thousands of articles about them? Nobody cares. And they don't care because it does not either serve the ability, the desire to force me to vote for one party, which basically takes away all my power. That's effectually what it does. If I agree to say this is the worst thing in the world, I essentially have given up my vote. My vote is not for you. My vote is for these two issues. The second reason they don't Care is because somehow no one has empathy with any of those people because none of us really deal with those people. At Palantir, we are on the side of working class Americans. We support people who go to the military. We save their lives, we bring them home safer. Our AI actually makes workers more wealthy, more valuable. And the 10 to 15 million people that love me, despite what's written, half of them made a lot of money on us. And you know what they're like? Like, they're like people like me who think, you know what? We have to do better. Of course we have to do better.

[Matt Gaetz]

All right.

[Macaulay Holmes]

I'm deeply confused about the transition that he just did there from, like, talking about, you know, the mass imprisonment of Americans to Palantir is on the side of the. The working class. We're making American workers wealthy because we are enriching the American military's capabilities to do warfare overseas. I'm not. Not really tracking the through line there.

[Crystal Ball]

Ryan, do you have any idea? I mean, Ryan's.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Ryan's like deep meditation on it. I think we broke Ryan.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. I mean, he just. Yes, I. He's making people safer on the battlefield, is his claim. So that's one claim.

AI is going to make workers more productive and therefore richer. Like, I don't know how he. All productivity gains have flowed to the top two people like Alex Karp over the last 40, 50 years. So I don't know what policy he's pitching that is going to actually break that. So I don't. I don't see how he can make that claim with a straight face.

[Crystal Ball]

And is he saying they help put the right people in prison as opposed to.

[Ryan Grim]

That's the part where, like, with Mac, I'm like, I don't know what he's saying. I mean, maybe it's like, you know, Larry Ellison had said, like, when, you know, absolute mass surveillance is everywhere, then people will behave better. And maybe it's good that people behave, I don't know, like, that. I'm.

[Macaulay Holmes]

Well, he's. It almost seemed like he was getting to like a. There's a structural, like, racism problem with the. The prison industrial complex or with policing. But then it's like Palantir is working with ice. Palantir is working with local police outfits. So, like, aren't you kind of reinforcing whatever structural issues that you see with that system? Like, I'm. I don't know.

[Crystal Ball]

They still see themselves as people who are disrupting those systems and making them better? They've been doing that for a long time now. So I don't know. Like they, that's what they've been doing, what they've been doing for a long time. So if they were making the system better, they would, you know, have to show significant structural evidence of improvement, I would say. I think it's pretty clear that what they're technology does is make mass surveillance a lot easier. They will say it makes it a lot more in line or a lot more aligned with like, your constitutional rights and a lot more efficacious in ways that, you know, if it's, if it's more effective and it's more aligned with your constitutional rights, then how could you possibly be against what Palantir is doing? If it's not Palantir, it's going to be some worse type of actor, which I don't think is a great argument for Palantir, to be perfectly honest.

[Emily Jashinsky]

There's also, there's. He calls them Palantirians. There is this sort of almost like this like, cult like movement that he's trying to establish. Right. If you're on our side, you're a Palantirian.

[Crystal Ball]

I think that's very Silicon Valley post, like Silicon valley around like 2008, 2009. What, they were like Googlers and they were all doing that?

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah, yeah.

[Macaulay Holmes]

Well, I don't know. He does have some, some coalition of like, cultists that, that support him and hype him up. So I think he is trying to directly feed into that and do sort of a performance for like a select group of the population that, that enjoys hearing him cracked out in interviews like that.

[Crystal Ball]

That's probably true, I think.

[Macaulay Holmes]

And I think there's some element to the idea that, like, if your entire life is helping to facilitate, you know, blowing up Palestinian children and having, you know, helping ICE to, to ship families to overseas concentration camps, then, like, maybe you do need to take the edge off every once in a while.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yep. Maybe they're helping, like, weigh the ICE employees because there was that guy that got kicked out for being like 460 pounds.

[Macaulay Holmes]

We need an ice, an ice weight database, an ice obesity database.

[Crystal Ball]

Oh, I'm sure they have that. I'm sure they have that.

[Emily Jashinsky]

All right, well, I'm feeling, as a member of the working class, I'm feeling good. And I think that will leave us here for the free half of the show. We got big stories that we're saving for the second half for premium users. We're getting into the battle between TP USA and one singular Candace Owens. We're also maybe going to be. Ryan told me he's been doing a lot more research into the Olivia Nuzzy story and we have an incredible Olivia Nuzzy impersonation from Emily. Always ready on deck. So get the sunglasses ready and we got a few other stories. Maybe we'll get into a little bit more of the call she betting super funding of politics and Griffin, let's get.

[Crystal Ball]

Your let's get your reaction to Netflix Warner Bros. Too in the in the second.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Oh yeah, and we'll talk about Netflix folks, if you like going to the movies, you know, and savor it while it lasts because it is doomed at this point. We'll get into all that and more. You can go to breaking points.com to sign up, become a member. We'll also be answering questions from the audience and we'll see you all there.

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[Crystal Ball]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.