← Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
1/27/25: Trump War With Colombia Over Deporation, Trump Demands Gaza Cleansed, Elon Mask Off AfD Germany Rally
01:02:36
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- [00:00]
Lenovo Representative
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- [00:30]
Sagar Enjeti
Where'd you get those shoes?
- [00:32]
Krystal Ball
Easy.
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Sagar Enjeti
They're from DSW. Because DSW has the exact right shoes for whatever you're into right now. You know, like the sneakers that make office hours feel like happy hour, the boots that turn grocery aisles into runways, and all the styles that show off the many sides of you from daydreamer to multitasker and everything in between. Because you do it all in really great shoes. Find a shoe for every you at your DSW store or dc.
- [01:00]
Roku Representative
Have you ever wondered what it would be like to have supervision, enhanced hearing, extraordinary reflexes? To be, dare we say, superhuman? Well, Roku's new Pro Series TV can't do any of that for you, but with a 4K screen, side firing speakers and a blazing fast refresh rate, it'll sure feel like it. Elevate your entertainment using all your favorite apps like Iheart and play all your music, radio and podcasts. With the new Roku Pro series. Your senses aren't better. Your TV is Hey guys, Sagar and Krystal here.
- [01:32]
Krystal Ball
Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.
- [01:39]
Sagar Enjeti
This is the only place where you.
- [01:40]
Krystal Ball
Can find honest perspectives from the left.
- [01:42]
Roku Representative
And the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.
- [01:45]
Krystal Ball
So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.
- [01:56]
Roku Representative
We need your help to build the.
- [01:57]
Sagar Enjeti
Future of independent news media and we.
- [01:59]
Roku Representative
Hope to see you@breakingpoint.com.
- [02:04]
Sagar Enjeti
Good morning everyone. Especially to Sager and Jetty who is recovering from the Eagles game. He was actually there. So big congrats to Ryan and Sager. Crystal, how are you?
- [02:13]
Krystal Ball
Oh that's right. Ryan is an Eagles fan. This is outrageous.
- [02:15]
Sagar Enjeti
It's not good.
- [02:16]
Krystal Ball
This is outrageous.
- [02:17]
Sagar Enjeti
It's not good. It's not good.
- [02:19]
Krystal Ball
I was a long suffering Washington football fan. I you know, when I was a kid they were so, so good and then they were just terrible forever. So I hadn't watched any of their games in like a decade and Then I watched this one and of course, because I watched, they lost. So I'm sorry, everybody. I really blame myself.
- [02:34]
Sagar Enjeti
She really was beating herself up this morning. I can attest to that.
- [02:37]
Krystal Ball
And honestly, I'm a curse on every team, so that's fair.
- [02:40]
Sagar Enjeti
But at least you have some self awareness.
- [02:41]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. So sorry, guys. I will stop watching again. Don't worry. Lots to get to this morning, including we had to add yesterday evening there was a big showdown between the Colombian president and Donald Trump. We'll tell you where that stands this morning over deportations on milit military planes. There's actually a number of countries that are taking a lot of issue with that. So we will break all of that down for. You've also got some, you know, very disturbing comments from Trump pushing ethnic cleansing in the Gaza Strip. So we'll break all of those details down for you. And also the Israelis really violating the ceasefire agreements both in Gaza and in Lebanon. Elon decided to go and speak at the AfD rally. That's that far right party in Germany. We'll tell you what he said. Stoking more controversy about his political views, Trump purged a number of inspectors general. It appears to have been blatantly illegal the way he did it. So there is a fight brewing there as well, with even Republicans who are perturbed, I guess I would say, by that. We're also taking a look at this is maybe the most important story of the day, a new AI development out of China. They have now launched a competitor, a Chinese company launched a competitor to ChatGPT and Meta's offerings, et cetera, called Deepseek. They did it for wildly less money and less what they call compute in terms of the chips that it requires. And really has shocked Silicon Valley. Could put a real squeeze on our stock market. Huge implications here. We're going to have Arnaud Bertrand join us to break down these developments and what it means more broadly. And very excited to have Andrew Callahan on of Channel 5 News. He just dropped a new documentary. It's really interesting. It follows this one man who's been sort of like radicalized into all the wildest conspiracies on the MAGA side and what led him there and what he's all about. And he just sort of like digs into this man's life and his family, et cetera. And it's really interesting. I think you guys will like it. So we're excited to talk to Andrew about that.
- [04:39]
Sagar Enjeti
Yes, we absolutely are. It's fantastic. And he will be here later in the Show. So, Crystal, let's get started with Colombia, because yesterday was a roller coaster for Colombians, for the United States, and it looks like maybe there's resolution, at least for now.
- [04:52]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. So the tldr is, you know, all of these Central and South American countries have been routinely accepting deportation flights from the U.S. typically ice charters, civilian planes. But Trump has decided to use, in addition to those civilian planes, use military planes. And they really have taken this as a sort of affront. In addition to the treatment of the migrants, of the deportees who are on these planes, there have been images circulating. In fact, we can put this first tweet up on the screen which contains some of these images. You can see people being led off the plane. I think this is actually in Brazil, in shackles, in handcuffs and shackles. There were also reports that some of these deportees to Brazil in particular, were denied water, denied bathroom, and treated, according to them, with a total lack of dignity. So this is the president of Columbia weighing in, saying, a migrant is not a criminal, must be treated with the dignity that a human being deserves. That's why I turned back US Military planes that were carrying Colombian migrants. I cannot allow migrants to remain in a country that does not want them. But if that country sends them back, it must be with dignity and respect for them and for our country. We will receive our fellow citizens on civilian planes without treating them like criminals. Colombia is respected. So Trump, wasting no time, jumps in with a major economic threat here. He says, I was just informed that two repatriation flights from the US With a large number of illegal criminals were not allowed to land in Colombia. This order was given by Colombia's socialist president, Gustavo Pedro, who is already very unpopular amongst his people. Petro's denial of these flights has jeopardized the national security, public safety of the US So I've directed my administration to immediately take the following urgent and decisive retaliatory measures. Number one, and this is the most significant emergency, 25% tariff on all goods coming to the U.S. in one week, the 25% tariffs will be raised to 50%, a travel ban and immediate visa revocations on the Colombian government officials and all allies and supporters. And there are a number of other sanctions and provisions here which were threatened. So in the next development, the Colombian president chimes in and offers to allow the use of his presidential plane to help repatriate deportees from the U.S. so he's offering the use of his presidential plane again, underscoring that what was really objected to here was the use of military planes to do these flights. There were hundreds of these during the Biden administration. It was the change to use of military planes that irked this president. Also, I think the, the president of Honduras has weighed in. Lula down in Brazil was upset by this. Claudia Sheinbaum, it appears, may have also rejected one of these military planes landing. So that was really kind of the beef. And then we have the next piece, which is a lengthy post from Gustavo Pedro. I won't read the whole thing, but suffice it to say that he and President Trump, Emily, I would say they sort of match each other's freak.
- [07:52]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah. Oh, well said. Yeah, well said.
- [07:55]
Krystal Ball
Trump. I don't really like to. This is a translator from Google. I'm sure it's not entirely accurate, so do take it with a grain of salt. But he says in part, Trump I don't really like traveling to the US It's a bit boring. But I confess there are some commendable things. I like going to the black neighborhoods of Washington where I saw an entire fight in the US Capitol between blacks and Latinos with barricades, which seemed like nonsense to me because they should join together. I confess. I like Walt Whitman and Paul Simon and Noam Chomsky and Miller. I don't know who Miller is, do you?
- [08:22]
Sagar Enjeti
I'm not sure what he's going for.
- [08:23]
Krystal Ball
I'm thinking not Stephen Miller probably.
- [08:25]
Sagar Enjeti
Oh, you know what? But what if it is? What if this is his appeal to Trump?
- [08:29]
Krystal Ball
That would be a real twist. Anyway, at some point I believe he indicates that Trump is trying to push him out of power. He says, overthrow me president and the Americas and humanity will respond.
- [08:41]
Sagar Enjeti
But don't forget producer Mac's favorite line. Maybe one day over a glass of whiskey, which I accept despite my gastritis.
- [08:47]
Krystal Ball
We can talk frankly about this, but it's difficult because you consider me an inferior race and I'm not, nor is any Columbia. Anyway, the tldr of this is that he ends up also threatening retaliatory tariffs in response. That was where things stood yesterday until later in the evening. And now it looks like we have come to some sort of a resolution. But this last piece a six guys put up on the screen. This is some of the things that we get from Colombia. But in the final communication it looks like Colombia is confirming some sort of deal has been made. Notes that Columbia's foreign minister and its ambassador, the US Will be holding high level talks and also states Columbia's president continues to make the presidential plane available. Four Colombian nationals who were set to be deported to return home. And they even accepted Emily, the use of the controversial military planes. So, anyway, that's where everything went. Obviously, the big picture here is these heads of state bumping heads and the Trump administration being quite aggressive. But also, I mean, I just look at this, and I know that people are, oh, Trump stood up to them and they won. I mean, first of all, it's Colombia. Like, who do you think is going to win in that fight against the giant superpower? But second of all, you won what? The ability to continue to do deportation flights that have been going on routinely for years and years with no incident. So sort of this, like, drama and fight and spectacle over really kind of nothing.
- [10:16]
Sagar Enjeti
You know, there's also an argument. I was talking to Juan David Rojas, who covers Central America very well, and he was saying the effect of this, the consequence of this might actually push Colombia closer to China.
- [10:27]
Krystal Ball
Oh, absolutely right. And not just Colombia.
- [10:30]
Sagar Enjeti
Oh, 100%. And that's already a problem. I mean, obviously, it's the problem that Donald Trump says he's responding to in Panama. But that's. I mean, if this, if that's the consequence of this, which it very likely could be, that's very problematic for the Trump agenda in Central America. So we'll see. Obviously, there's more to come on that, but, I mean, I think there is something to the stepping back when Petro was saying, you can't treat Colombians like criminals. It goes back to, I think, back to those flights of Haitians that were taking place during the Biden administration. They were basically rioting to get off the planes. They so badly did not want to go back to Port au Prince that they were, you know, so I understand why the Trump administration is flying them back in handcuffs. But then you would also understand why the president, who's far left, would be saying, this is causing me a problem, because now I look like I'm cooperating with people who are being treated poorly, Colombians who are being treated poorly.
- [11:27]
Krystal Ball
It's just this sense of disrespect, because these are, by and large, people who are just, you know, in certain instances, like in Venezuela, for example, Venezuela does not accept our deportation flights, but they're literally fleeing, like, the sanctions that we have imposed and the economic hardship there. So to have people shackled. The other thing is the use of the military planes, it's really meant to sort of provoke these fights. Like, I think that Trump feels like this whole showdown really serves his. The propaganda he wants to put out about we're really getting tough on immigration and we're throwing our weight around in the world and we're not being pushed around anymore, et cetera, et cetera. But the reality is there's no real reason to use military planes. In fact, I looked it up. So the cost of the civilian flights that ice charters are roughly around $8,000, $9,000. The cost of these military flights is upward of $800,000. So wildly more expensive, sparking diplomatic crises throughout Central and South America. And I think the broader picture is like you said, Emily and Arnaud Bertrand, who we have on later in the show, is a good observer of these things too. So it's very late. I mean, Trump's already picked fights with Canada, Mexico, with Panama. Now we've got Honduras in Brazil and obviously with Colombia. And it's kind of like, over what? And all of these countries individually, no one of them can hope to sort of stand up against the economic military might of the United States of America. But at some point they're gonna get smart and say, but we do have other alternatives at this point, like the multipolar world with BRICS and with China. That's already a reality. We have other patrons that we can go to and that we can become more cozy with and we can ourselves band together and have more strength in numbers, because individually, none of them stands a chance. But it's a preview of, I think, the way things are going to continue to operate. And it could have really far reaching ultimate consequences if he continues to behave in this way. And again, it's like, for what? To be able to fly these deportation flights which have been a regular occurrence for years and years. And you just provoked this incident and are now claiming a victory just to be able to do the thing that has already been done without incident for years.
- [13:54]
Sagar Enjeti
It's interesting because I guess one counter argument would be on the point of respect. I think what Trump is trying to say is that he feels as though they actually are criminals because they committed a crime by crossing the border illegally. And that's sort of the baseline. Like we just can all accept, he's trying to say, I think if we all accept that, then we can have whatever diplomatic negotiations, but if you won't accept that, it's a matter of respect, blah, blah, blah. What's interesting about that is not every government in Central America has facilitated the exodus. Right? Like, it's not like Mexico is a very different case study. Like, Mexico actually really hasn't facilitated the exodus of people up through these, like, cartel pathways, which is so sad to see what it's done to those countries. And I'm not saying that Donald Trump has that in mind, like pushing back on the cartel takeover of some of these countries, which is obviously a problem in Mexico. But Claudia Sheinbaum, for example, I mean, it's hard to connect her to actual cartel. She's not in the pockets of cartels. There was some of that with amlo. There were some speculation going back years when it came to amlo, but they're not all in the pockets of cartels. But that said, I think there is something really important about understanding from the president's perspective that if you continue to allow people to send all of these migrants, it's just patting the pockets of the cartels that are literally taking over their territory. And that's actually helpful for negotiating because a lot of them want help with that too. And I mean, if you're pushing them closer to China, I don't know that any problem gets solved.
- [15:30]
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- [16:43]
Krystal Ball
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- [17:02]
Krystal Ball
He doesn't want to frame them as criminals in the sense of like they committed the crime of crossing the border. He routinely talks about. He made up this thing of, oh, you're emptying your mental asylums, whatever, which many people have speculated. He's confused between people who are seeking asylum and who were at insane asylum because there's no, I mean, there's no evidence that any of these countries emptied their asylums. This isn't like some, you know, burial boat lift situation from Cuba where they literally did like empty their prisons and send them to us. So I think he wants the imagery of all migrants are criminals, like hardened criminals, like committing violent crimes here in America, which we know is obviously not the, not the truth. Like there are some who have committed crimes, but the overall crime rate is lower among both documented and undocumented immigrants. The US So in any case, I think the use of the military planes, the insistence on shackling people and treating them like they're these like hardened, like they're frickin serial killers or something like that. I do think this is, this is sort of the fight and the imagery that he ultimately wants. And I think there will be a lot of that in terms of his immigration policy. Like, obviously what he's done with his executive orders and his approach is already very hard line. But in addition, ICE doesn't have any more resources than they did under Biden. In fact, so far, the number of deportations under Trump, it's very early days, obviously, but it's roughly the same number that Biden had been doing on a daily basis during his term in office as well. So what he wants in part is this show of force to overcome the fact that they don't have nearly the amount of resources to detain and deport every undocumented immigrant who is here in the US So whereas the Biden administration really wanted to kind of keep under wraps these images of deportations and the ugliness and the sort of cruelty involved in that. Trump has the exact opposite motivation, which he wants to put it on disposal.
- [19:08]
Sagar Enjeti
Biden quietly bribed Haiti into taking back flights. Like they didn't want anyone to know it. It was reported in, like the New York Post.
- [19:14]
Krystal Ball
Biden deported more. Now there were more migrants coming in, but Biden deported more people than Trump did during his first four year term in office. You would never know that, both because of the way it was covered, but also because, yeah, the Biden administration that didn't serve the Propaganda, you know, direction that they wanted to go in. Whereas with Trump, I think you're going to see some of these, they're highlighting these ICE raids that are going on already, et cetera. So I think this is part of that spectacle that he wants, and he can sort of claim this win here and also underscore his narrative of the world that these migrants are criminals and not just in the sense of they cross the border illegally, but they're with the cartels or they're a drug dealer, they're murderers, they're violent, et cetera, et cetera. That's, that's part of what you want from imagery of people who are shackled and treated in this way on military planes.
- [20:07]
Sagar Enjeti
Well, they're definitely going, I mean, and they've said that they're starting with people who are in the country illegally and have committed crimes, which is going to be an interesting thing in Chicago, because right now Chicago is a sanctuary city technically. Doesn't have to cooperate with ICE when they're trying to get people out of the prison or out of the jails, basically. And that's now one of the things that Tom Homan, I think it was in the Wall Street Journal just this morning, is talking about is like, if you don't let us into the J, we're gonna have a problem. Because what we're trying to do in this first couple of weeks is deport people, send people back who have committed crimes beyond just crossing the border illegally. And I think where the rubber is really gonna meet the road is when the Trump administration doesn't have the optics of just flying military aged men back on military planes, which is when you look at the images, at least from like a PR standpoint, as sad as it is to say, you can see what they're doing. They're actually like going specifically for military age males, the least sympathetic I know.
- [21:06]
Krystal Ball
In the instance of Brazil, there were families and kids on those planes.
- [21:09]
Sagar Enjeti
Really, the ones they're putting out, the ones the administration's like highlighting, leading with.
- [21:13]
Krystal Ball
That makes sense. Yeah.
- [21:14]
Sagar Enjeti
And so I think where the rubber's going to meet the road is when we see them going into cities like Chicago, whatever, and, you know, maybe they take the people out of the jails and they get cooperation. But then what happens? Like, then what's next? How are they going to handle that? Are they going to keep going full Homan when it is, you know, when the optics are, you have news cameras with you and it's women and children.
- [21:33]
Krystal Ball
I mean, I think that they want that I genuinely think they want that because they believe in this, like, deterrent effect, right? That if you put sort of, like, fear and cruelty on display, that that will force people to leave, to not come in the first place. So that's part of their, you know, their theory and their ideology. And the irony is, if you compare the Trump administration the first time and the Biden administration in terms of the number of actual criminal, like, not just crossing the border, but actual criminals who were released, there were more under the Trump administration. And that makes sense because the Biden administration and actually the Obama administration deported more than any of these people. He earned that title, the deporter in chief. But they made a concerted effort to focus their deportation efforts on criminals. And if you know that that's sort of the policy of the government, then if you're not a criminal, you feel like, I'm probably okay. Like I need to be careful, but I'm probably okay. The Trump administration, both in the first term and it appears in this term as well, they would rather have cast a broader net because that helps to put the fear of deportation in everyone. So you don't have that sense of like, well, if I didn't do anything wrong, I'm probably going to be okay. So that's part of their sort of ideologically different approach, is that they actually don't laser focus on just the criminals. And the Lake and Riley act, you know, similar thing, requires people who have been, you know, who have been arrested for even, like, something really minor, like shoplifting, requires them to be detained and then prioritize for deportation. Well, again, there's only. So ICE doesn't have unlimited resources. So if you're focused on just to use, like, the most sympathetic, like a mom who shoplifted diapers over an actual gang cartel member, you know, that is a change in prioritization. That means you are going to have fewer resources to go after. Actually, the more hardened criminals who have, you know, who are undocumented than the Trump administration wants to sort of capture a larger number of people and a larger sort of breadth of types of migrants who have come here, some of some of them who even came here through this process that up with the Biden administration, the CPV1 app, and claimed asylum and all of that as well.
- [23:58]
Sagar Enjeti
I mean, that's probably the most difficult thing for the Trump administration. And actually, as much as I sadly do believe in the deterrent problem here or the deterrent effect here, because I've talked to people who work in Mexico, like immigration, at refugee centers, and everything. And they say they've begged the government to do more and tell people, don't come, don't come. And one of the reasons I think it's so tragic is that the Biden administration, with their asylum expansion, has put a lot of people in the situations now where they get into the country, they try to start lives. Most of them have work permits. And the Trump administration. And the Biden administration. The Trump administration takes people who are here legally through asylum, expanded asylum, and deports them. That's disgusting. As much as they may want to, and as much as they may be men who are abusing the system and people are being used as mules, whatever, that's disgusting. They're here legally. You can, you know, hear their asylum cases faster, and you can be more stringent in hearing their asylum cases, but they're not here illegally. The Biden administration made sure that this was. They actually reclassified a lot of this illegal immigration to legal immigration. So they're here legally. And that's now going to be one of the most difficult things for the Trump administration to deal with, because in the last few years, a huge proportion of the people who crossed the border and there were a lot of people crossing the border did it through expanded asylum. So good luck with that. It's a totally different ballgame than just taking people out who cross the border illegally.
- [25:25]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. So in any case, the fight is, I guess, sort of resolved for now, but an interesting window into how things are going to go, how Trump is approaching things, how he sort of has an interest in picking these kind of fights or show and throwing the weight of the United States government around. And so it looks like we have a resolution here with Columbia specifically. But I don't think this issue of upset and a sense of, like, the dignity of a whole country being threatened by the use of these military assets and the deportations and the treatment of, you know, Colombians or Mexicans or, you know, people from Honduras or whatever, I don't think that issue is going to die down because you've already had a number of other heads of state express their upset about it.
- [26:12]
Sagar Enjeti
Last thought, actually, is just on Petro. It reminds me a little bit going back to amlo. Trump had a very interesting relationship with amlo, somebody who was like, I guess Latin American politics are so interesting, and they confuse our binary in interesting ways. Like our left. Right. Binary in interesting ways, for sure. Petro, obviously, is different than Amala, although they're not entirely dissimilar. And Trump loves those relationships with other charismatic leaders. He obviously likes being able to stomp on other countries and flex America's power, but it is kind of interesting how he can get on the same wavelength. And you were saying that Petro's letter sort of matches the freak of Trump in terms of incredible press releases and tweets. So I don't know, I mean, maybe this is the beginning of an interesting relationship that Trump has with some of these like genuinely charismatic and interesting features leaders in Latin America.
- [27:04]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, well Colombia has long been sort of our strongest. I mean, because they mostly have had these like extremely right wing governments that we, you know, are very cozy with and lots of drug cooperation. Yes, very much so. And Petro is a real break from the typical political mold in Colombia, was a big deal when he was elected, et cetera. So in any case, very unusual to have this kind of fight between the US And Colombia, which has been a very reliable ally for us in the region.
- [27:34]
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- [28:05]
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- [29:07]
Krystal Ball
All right, let's go ahead and move to these Trump comments with regard to Israel and Gaza, which are quite disturbing. I mean, also just quite overt. The audio in this is not great. He's on the plane, he gets asked about, you know, what he wants to do with regards to the Gaza Strip. Go ahead and play this and then I'll tell you on the other side if, in case it's difficult to hear the audio, exactly what he said.
- [29:29]
Donald Trump
I'm talking to General El Sisi tomorrow sometime, I believe. And I'd like Egypt to take people and I'd like Jordan to take people. I mean, you're talking about probably a million and a half people, and we just clean out that whole thing. You know, it's over the centuries, that said, many, many conflicts. That's like, and I don't know, it's, something has to happen. But it's, it's literally a demolition site right now. Almost everything's demolished and people are dying there. So I'd rather get involved with some of the Arab nations and build housing in a different location where they can maybe live in peace temporarily, or it could be either. Could be temporarily, could be long term.
- [30:18]
Krystal Ball
So the key quote there is he says he's going to talk to General Sisi of Egypt. He says, I'd like Egypt to take people and I'd like Jordan to take people. You're talking about a million and a half people. He's referring there to the entire population of the Gaza Strip. And we just clean out that whole thing. I mean, it's obviously brazen call for ethnic cleansing. And this couples Emily with comments that both he and Jared Kushner made about, he kind of alluded to. He's like, oh, it's a demolition site. And previously he had said when he was in the Oval Office, it's very interesting. They have all this beautiful coastline, et cetera. Kushner had talked before about waterfront development in Gaza. So as a capitalist real estate developer, he looks at Gaza, the Gaza Strip, and he sees dollar signs and says, let's just push out all the people there entirely into Egypt and Jordan.
- [31:20]
Sagar Enjeti
And he said, this is one of the, the thing with Trump, it's like this was the most galaxy brain, like libertarians smoking pot in their dorm room approach to the problem, where you're like, oh, okay, so here's all of this rubble. We need to clean it out. Using the word Clean, I mean, is like, you use the word brazen. I think that's a great description. And he says towards the end of this, like, answer that he. It could be temporary, it could be longer term. And it's like, dude, your idea is to take people off of the land that they have spilled so much blood over the years to stay on because it means something to them. The land itself is important to them. And that's the most basic takeaway from what's happened over, like the decades that he references there. And the, quote, many, many conflicts that he references there is. It's specifically their homeland that they care about. So it's just sort of, it's so. So his realism like bumps into galaxy brain, dorm room libertarianism. It's like, this is actually not that smart. It's missing the most basic reality of the situation.
- [32:30]
Krystal Ball
Well, and bumping into developer brain too.
- [32:32]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, 100%.
- [32:33]
Krystal Ball
There's a profit to be turned here. Like, I just gotta get all these pesky people out of the way, clear, clean out that whole thing. That's what he says. You're talking about a million and a half people and we just clean out that whole thing. You guys might remember back kind of early, after October 7th, I don't remember exactly the timeframe. I wanna say it was like a couple months in. The Biden administration was floating. Hey, why don't, hey, Egypt, why don't we just open up the borders here and, and let Palestinians flow into the Sinai Desert and set up camps for them there? And they were actively trying to like, you know, basically bribe the Egyptians into accepting this. And obviously Jordan already has a huge number of Palestinian refugees, has for years and years. The Queen of Jordan is herself Palestinian. And neither one of these countries wants to be party to ethnic cleansing. Not to mention that, that it would be quite a lot for Egypt, which is already in kind of economic chaos, to take people in. So there was a huge backlash to that idea from a variety of sectors. And so they kind of dropped that whole thing. But yeah, Trump just comes out and says the quiet part out loud that the basic plan, what he would like to see in effect here is a wholesale ethnic cleansing. We have some additional Trump news here too, from Axios. Put this up on the screen. So I don't know if you guys remember, there was this one shipment of 2,000 pound bombs that the Biden administration had as a token withheld out of concerns for how they could be used in Rafah in particular. Now that there is this temporary ceasefire in effect, we've Gotten a better look at Rafah, and some of the Biden administration cope was like, well, we constrained them in Rafah and didn't let them do. They really wanted to do wrong. Rafah is utterly destroyed. But in any case, they did put this hold on the shipment of 2,000 pound bombs. And so even the sort of like token signs of upset at the way that Israel has conducted themselves in Gaza have been rolled back by Trump. Not just that, but also, Emily, you probably remember there were some like, also token sanctions put on a handful of extremist violent settlers that the Trump administration has also now rolled back. So that is very much the direction that they're going in. We can put up Trump's truth about this action. He says a lot of things that were ordered and paid for by Israel but have not been sent by Biden are now on their way. So certainly no qualms here about shipping 2,000 pound bombs or whatever else Israel wants. And also, just to add one more thing to this, the Trump administration issued an executive order putting a freeze on all foreign aid with the exception of Israel.
- [35:28]
Sagar Enjeti
You gotta fill those orders.
- [35:29]
Krystal Ball
Yes, no qualms there. Gotta make sure that they're getting everything that they want.
- [35:33]
Sagar Enjeti
You know, it's about customer service, Crystal.
- [35:35]
Krystal Ball
That's right.
- [35:35]
Sagar Enjeti
You have to get it.
- [35:36]
Krystal Ball
You order something, you order the 2,000 pound bomb, you expect to get it.
- [35:39]
Sagar Enjeti
You know, he's been having a lot of conversations with Jeff Bezos, who knows more about customer service than anyone. So he's prepared to fill his orders in a timely fashion with great integrity.
- [35:50]
Krystal Ball
I mean, they, you know, they want the prime service.
- [35:52]
Sagar Enjeti
Yes, right. Yeah. Well, way beyond two days at this point. So he has a lot of ground to make up for. But I mean, it's interesting to see the freak out that you and Sager covered last week about people like Dan Caldwell and others in Trump circles. They did the same thing with Albert Colby, who have somewhat heterodox realist views for the Republican Party when it comes to focusing on the Middle east versus Asia. And you have this like, neoconservative of hissy fit over these people with different ideas coming in, or Steve Witkoff, for example, brokering the ceasefire deal. And then you have the sanctions being lifted and the bombs being delivered. So, honestly, Trump has said some somewhat interesting things about the conflict, but we have, like, no indication of him significantly changing course other than the ceasefire deal, which no other Republican president would have been comfortable with. But if it's just that, if it starts with that, because he wanted the kind of optics of ending the conflict. It was just that. And it doesn't go any further than all the freak out was for nothing from the neocons.
- [36:58]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, well, not only that, but Israel has expanded their war aims to include the West Bank. And I know Ryan and Jeremy over at drop site have been doing a great job covering that expansion, that deadly expansion in the West Bank. There's been settlers who are rampaging and also the idf, IDF backing up those settlers and doing raids in various villages in the occupied West Bank. So one of the things that has long been speculated and has been publicly reported that this is what Miriam Adelson wants is for mass annexation in the west bank to occur under this Trump administration. I think you should have every expectation that that is ultimately going to occur. Another interesting development here out of Gaza. We can put this up on the screen is so we had another hostage exchange between the Israelis and Palestinians. And as part of that, Hamas has really been coming out, trying to show like, you know, it's a real show of force. Here is their propaganda video that they put out showing the latest. These were actually female soldiers, four female soldiers, IDF soldiers who were released in this latest exchange. They, you know, show them here smiling and getting goody bags and very gifts, etc. But you know, again, they're, they're really trying to show, look, we're still here, you didn't defeat us. And by the way, Tony Blinken on his way out said, you know, we, our analysis is that they recruited as many new fighters as were killed during the conflict. So certainly the, the fantasy, which we always knew was a fantasy that we're going to be able to thoroughly destroy Hamas through military means has been completely disproven at this point. And there again you see the hostages, the Israeli hostages being released.
- [38:48]
Sagar Enjeti
But Crystal, if they just had a little bit more time.
- [38:51]
Krystal Ball
Oh yeah, just a few, you know, if Biden hadn't withheld that shipment of 2,000 pound bombs, I think that would have done the job.
- [38:57]
Sagar Enjeti
Hamas would have been gone forever. They were so close and you thwarted it personally. You, it's your fault.
- [39:04]
Krystal Ball
It's your fault.
- [39:05]
Sagar Enjeti
But actually, I mean, it is such a ridiculous argument and it's one that you're just expected to swallow whole cloth on the right or even in the center, that if Biden hadn't been truly, the argument is that there's some type of Iranian cell operating within the deep state of the American government and especially the Biden administration, and they were taking every possible maneuver to make it look like they were cooperating with Israel, but at the same time were thwarting Israel behind the scenes. And I mean, all that you need to do is let Israel fight. Hamas will be gone. You know, let them fight the war that they want and Hamas will be gone. But it's such a, it's always from the very beginning, but an absurd goal. There's no signs Hamas can be significantly, they can be significantly defeated, but like fully defeated. We've clearly seen that to be like, there's no way that they're going to be able to do that.
- [40:01]
Krystal Ball
Violent resistance is going to be popular. As long as there is no peaceful alternative, Hamas is not going to be defeated through bombs, period. I mean, if this doesn't prove that to you, I don't know what could. And part of why Bibi did not ever want this bombing to stop in Gaza is because when it does, you have to reckon with that reality. And that's very difficult for him politically because he promised these maximalist goals that Hamas would be eliminated, they would be eradicated. And obviously in terms of that, they were very successful in turning Gaza into what Donald Trump describes as a demolition site. And I think accurately so, they were very successful at killing God knows how many people, orphaning tens of thousands of children, creating mass numbers of amputees. They were very successful at those things. But in terms of the actual set out war aims, it was, this is manifestly evidence that it was a dramatic failure.
- [41:01]
Sagar Enjeti
And do you know who's going to be really susceptible to Islamism, radical Islamism is orphans.
- [41:06]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, imagine. Yeah, imagine, you know, your only experience with this country is them destroying your home, murdering your parents, you know, creating all of this pain and trauma. That doesn't exactly typically lead people down a path of peace and harmony.
- [41:23]
Sagar Enjeti
No.
- [41:23]
Krystal Ball
So, and we know this from the past. So in addition, there were some updates with regard to this quote, unquote, temporary cease fire. We can put this up on the screen. So over the weekend, the IDF was preventing Palestinians from returning home to northern Gaza. These are people who are traveling with their belongings trying to return to northern Gaza. IDF actually fired on some of these people and killed at least one, injured a number of others. There's an update this morning that apparently this morning Palestinians are successfully returning to northern Gaza. Again, this was a key part of this phase one, part of the ceasefire deal. They were supposed to be allowed to return to northern Gaza. So it does look this morning, early indications are that that is actually happening. At the same time, you'll recall there was a ceasefire deal with Hezbollah in Lebanon. And we can put this up on the screen. They have been completely blocking Lebanese people from returning to their villages. And this says 15 killed. It was actually 22 people ultimately killed by the IDF, at least 120 wounded as the IDF fired on these Lebanese civilians who are just trying to return to their homes at the time that the ceasefire agreement stipulated that they should be allowed to return to their homes. So as far as I know, that block on people returning home continues in Lebanon. The Israelis are claiming that the Lebanese army isn't ready to, you know, take over their responsibilities. But right now, as of today, you have the Israeli army occupying a significant portion of southern Lebanon with a lot of questions over whether they ever intend to leave. And they also continue to occupy portions of Syria as well. So in addition to, obviously, Gaza and the West Banks. So that's the current state of affairs. And there was a stunning image that came out of this confrontation between the Lebanese civilians trying to return home and the idf. We can put this up on the screen. You have this lone woman standing up to a tank and trying to, I guess, argue with the IDF soldiers inside and, you know, people watching on it. You can see people there on the road trying to return home. So. And as I said before, the IDF fired on some numbers of these people, killing roughly 22 and injuring over 100 more. So both ceasefires are really kind of. I mean, the Lebanese ceasefire, they've just clearly brazenly violated, honestly, the one in Gaza as well, they've brazenly violated in terms of the letter, of what they're supposed to be doing. They're certainly not supposed to be firing on civilians. They were supposed to allow people immediately to be able to return to northern Gaza. But. So both really sort of already teetering on the bridge.
- [44:17]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, no, absolutely. And if this Trump administration really is so unconventional and Steve Witkoff really is just an enemy of Israel. Surprise. This comes as a surprise to the people of Gaza in the last couple of days.
- [44:32]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, very much so.
- [44:34]
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- [45:34]
Roku Representative
Every day, our world gets a little more connected, but a little further apart.
- [45:41]
Krystal Ball
But.
- [45:41]
Roku Representative
But then there are moments that remind us to be more human.
- [45:47]
Lenovo Representative
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Roku Representative
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- [45:51]
Krystal Ball
Don't worry, we'll get you taken care of.
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Roku Representative
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- [45:59]
Krystal Ball
It's human.
- [46:00]
Roku Representative
Emeca. Empathy is our best policy.
- [46:05]
Krystal Ball
All right, let's get to our friend Elon Musk. Fresh off his. Of course. Of course.
- [46:13]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah. I don't.
- [46:14]
Krystal Ball
He's not really your type.
- [46:15]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, no, I know you guys are close. I don't want to. It's stolen valor, really, to come in and act like we're best friends, but you guys go back years.
- [46:22]
Krystal Ball
Fresh off his awkward gesture. His awkward, Heil Hitler esque gesture.
- [46:28]
Sagar Enjeti
Sagar and I very much are on the other side of this one with you and Ryan.
- [46:33]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Hold on, though, I have to say, even now, I mean, because, like, after he did the. He has never denied that he was trying to, like, in a trollish way, do this wink, wink, nod, nod thing.
- [46:48]
Sagar Enjeti
He said he was throwing his heart to the crowd girl. It was the next line of his speech. It would be extraordinary.
- [46:54]
Krystal Ball
He did it twice, Emily. He did it twice.
- [46:56]
Sagar Enjeti
I mean, I think it would be extraordinarily stupid for a man with billions and billions and billions of dollars on the line to go out there, do a brazen Nazi speech.
- [47:03]
Krystal Ball
He does a lot of brazen stuff.
- [47:04]
Sagar Enjeti
He does a lot of brazen stuff. He does a lot of stuff. That doesn't exactly make sense.
- [47:07]
Krystal Ball
Here's the thing. Ok, here's the. So in addition to the AFD thing we're about to show you, which I think bolsters my side of the case here, any reservation I had about whether this was intentional was eliminated when, first of all, he's posting on Twitter about how much a troll he is, and he was sharing that he's proud about it. Of, like, the goose with, like, the thing like there, and it's like the thing I'm not supposed to do, you know that. And then he's doing that thing he's not supposed to do. And it's like, like you knew what you were doing. You 100% knew what you were doing. And to me, whether it's a quote, unquote troll or whether it's done in earnest, given his politics and his support for the furthest right, most reactionary forces in Europe in particular, I'm not sure that it really makes all that much of a difference. But in any case, he decided to speak again. I mean, this is the thing that a troll would do. Fresh off of this Heil Hitler controversy, Germany decides to go and speak to the far right reactionary AfD party in Germany, okay, so the scene of the crime, so to speak. And tells this assembled audience that he doesn't think that they should feel guilty for the Holocaust anymore. Let's take a listen to how that went.
- [48:20]
Elon Musk
I'm very excited for the AfD and I think, I think you are really the best hope for Germany. I think some things that. Something I think that is just very important is that people take pride in, in Germany and being German. This is very important. It's okay to be proud to be German. This is a very important principle. And it's probably, it's okay, it's good to be proud of German culture, German values, and not to lose that in, in some sort of multiculturalism that, that, that, that dilutes everything. You know, I think there's like frankly too much of a, of a focus on, on past guilt and we need to move beyond that. People, you know, children should not be guilty of the sins of their parents or even let alone their parents, their great grandparents.
- [49:16]
Krystal Ball
So, you know, be proud of German culture, don't feel guilty about the past. And I mean, whether you want to call it guilt or not, I think it is appropriate to like, like the whole thing is you never want something like that to happen again, right? So to carry some emotion around that and to keep fresh the lessons and the warnings of the past, which should be lessons and warnings that all of humanity takes in. Because there's nothing particularly distinct about the German people versus any other people. We're all made of the same good and evil inclinations and tendencies. But yeah, I think we should carry that forward. And obviously these are talking points that AFD wants to hear, part and parcel of their right wing ideological positioning in Germany. But again, he wanted to push the envelope coming off of the heil Hitler controversy and wanted to continue to kind of flirt with this and I think does it quite successfully.
- [50:19]
Sagar Enjeti
He's been flirting with AFD for a while because AFD is this genuinely. It's different than the other reactionary populist movements that have cropped up in that it came about in the. I guess maybe this was the middle of Merkel's period. It was like 2013 as this libertarian, almost melee, anti government type of party, which is so different than other populist movements across Europe that are reactionary and have this blend of like cultural reactionary conservatism and then economic leftism. And so Elon has had this like magnetic interest in AfD because it's anti immigrant and also like very libertarian, very.
- [51:03]
Krystal Ball
Like right wing economics. It's not like the, you know, Le Pen or somebody who's like social safety net, but just for the French and keep out all the immigrants kind of a deal.
- [51:12]
Sagar Enjeti
Right? Yeah, exactly. So it's an interesting movement and it does thrive. I mean, AFD does have some legitimate. It's not like a smear to say that AFD has some extreme associations. And that's like actually been a legitimate problem for AfD. But I work for a British publication, so have a little bit of context. Like they thrive on. It's kind of like Trump in a way, that criticism of them and how bad their enemies are politically that like Germany is having such a hard time getting on track and AFD is able to then say we have to totally close the borders, remigrate and blah blah, blah. And then the opposition is so hysterical and freaks out about it that more and more people go to afd and AFD keeps on growing. And so it's just this awful doom spiral that's not unfamiliar to the rest of us. And somebody needs to make Elon Musk stop being a diplomat. Cuz he just is not a diplomat. He is not a diplomat. But when he's in this like random unpaid advisory position for the U.S. government.
- [52:14]
Krystal Ball
True.
- [52:14]
Sagar Enjeti
And talking to foreign countries, it carries the weight of diplomacy. Not that it wouldn't given that he's like a, a zillionaire who has all of these really powerful companies, a military contractor. He has Starlink, which controls foreign conflicts and has influence, significant influence over foreign conflicts. But like he's now basically speaking on behalf of the US government.
- [52:34]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, that's right.
- [52:35]
Sagar Enjeti
So it's like we're just all letting.
- [52:37]
Krystal Ball
It happen and backing characters like Tommy Robinson, who even Nigel Farage was like, I draw the line. So yeah, there's some reporting. I'm curious what you think about this, Emily, about some upset within the Trump administration. I personally think the theories about how Trump and Elon are imminently going to have some major falling out, I just don't see it, because I think that they. I think they really find this to be both of them mutually beneficial. Elon is taking actually a lot of heat. His approval rating is plummeting in the US Which I'll show you momentarily. Trump's is not. And. And he gets to go in. And I mean, basically why Pete Hegseth got confirmed last week is because Elon Musk threatened to primary Joni Ernst or anyone else who didn't fall in line and has a bajillion dollars to make that threat reality. So he doesn't even have to do it. And so for Trump, Elon can be a very effective enforcer of whatever it is that he ultimately wants to do. But put C2 up on the screen. There was some reporting to the indication that Trump's chief of staff, Susie Wiles, who he apparently calls the Ice Maiden. Did you know that?
- [53:45]
Sagar Enjeti
Amazing. I think she's Jo Bennett from the office, the Kathy Bates character.
- [53:50]
Krystal Ball
Oh, really?
- [53:51]
Sagar Enjeti
Yes. The Florida vibes, It's immaculate.
- [53:54]
Krystal Ball
Okay. All right, I'll take your word for it. That sounds. That sounds correct. But in any case, that she's trying to limit Musk's direct access. One of the things that I had seen is that he is gonna take office space in the Old Executive Office Building, which is adjacent to the west bank, but is not actually in the White House, and that he actually wanted to be in the West Wing. And she was like, that's not happening. But he's still plenty close to Trump. Don't worry.
- [54:21]
Sagar Enjeti
Then give up your business conflicts. If you want to work in the West Wing, then divest.
- [54:25]
Krystal Ball
Why should he, when Trump himself has the greatest business conflicts of, you know, of all time?
- [54:31]
Sagar Enjeti
He formally divested, but it's. That's why it's like. Yeah, it's a joke.
- [54:36]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, it's a total and complete joke. I mean, Elon is one of the largest government contracts contractors. Yeah, one of the largest. Has all kinds of regulatory disputes over alleged labor and SEC violations and environmental violations. I mean, massive, massive, massive, unimaginable conflicts of interest.
- [54:52]
Sagar Enjeti
But, yeah, starlink is not insignificant. Part of the Ukraine war.
- [54:56]
Krystal Ball
That's. That's true. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Obviously, the NASA contracts with Space X are gigantic. So, I mean, just massive amounts of conflicts of interest. We can Put this next piece up on the screen from Politico. Trump staff furious after Musk trashes AI projects. Clear he's abused the proximity to the President. But again, this is all like staffers leaking to Politico and probably the most. And there's no indication that Trump is furious, just that the staff is furious. Which makes sense cuz they, I'm sure put a lot of work into this big announcement getting these leaders there and doing the whole thing. This is in reference to the five alleged $500 billion Stargate investment effort. And Elon immediately goes out and is like, they don't have the money.
- [55:40]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, well, because he's in an antitrust suit against Sam Altman.
- [55:44]
Krystal Ball
Right.
- [55:44]
Sagar Enjeti
It's like that's to this big question about whether the Trump and Elon relationship ultimately implodes. I'm with you. I think it's. They both have way too much on the line. Like again with Trump, this is a man who, via Starlink and SpaceX, is controlling so much of the country's domestic and foreign policy. One man.
- [56:05]
Krystal Ball
Yeah.
- [56:06]
Sagar Enjeti
So he can't really afford to blow up that relationship. Elon Musk certainly can't afford to blow up that relationship because he has now staked his entire reputation, not just as a person, but as a businessman, on Donald Trump, as a leader, on Donald Trump, as a diplomat, on Donald Trump. And so that's how high the stakes are for both of them to play nice with each other. It doesn't mean that they're not going to get incredibly annoying. I think it's more likely that Trump gets annoyed with Elon Musk than the other way around.
- [56:32]
Krystal Ball
But like those, I mean, Elon seems like a pretty annoying person.
- [56:35]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, he does. Those, those leaks are. I feel like the Trump White House is either going to encourage them forever, like, and Elon's just going to have to get used to them.
- [56:46]
Krystal Ball
Yeah.
- [56:46]
Sagar Enjeti
Or if Musk is really sensitive, they're going to shut those down really quickly and we'll find out in the next couple of months. But I mean the relationship is just way too high stakes for either of them to bungle. And yet, yet Elon Musk continues to now go and act as a diplomat and make policy by tweet as somebody who's not like a government who is not divested of his conflicts of interest, cannot take a paid position with the US Government because he hasn't done it, but is in this position of the US Government. It means the entire arrangement is completely insane. And I think Trump thinks, and Trump supporters think that it's the type of thing where 100 years, you look back on, you're like, this was. Was brilliant. This was a gilded age. You know, JP Morgan saving America because, you know, someone. One of the presidents asked him to. And that's a hell of a bet. That's a hell of a risk. And it's one that they're in. It's so deep right now. There's no way really out of it. You can't really dig yourself out of this hole.
- [57:45]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, no, that's right. And obviously, some parts of the MAGA coalition are very appealing upset with the influence and sway of Elon, who they don't see as an ideological ally of the original MAGA view that broke out into the open with the H1B fight. But Steve Bannon really been cooking with the Elon insults, called them evil, saying that he called him evil. He said that white South Africans are the most racist people on the planet.
- [58:14]
Lenovo Representative
Yes.
- [58:15]
Krystal Ball
I wonder if he agrees with me about the Sig Heil solution.
- [58:19]
Sagar Enjeti
Oh, that was really interesting.
- [58:21]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. I don't know if he's waiting, but anyway, I'll leave that at that. But the key quote from the piece on Politico was, the problem is regarding Elon. The president doesn't have any leverage over him, and Elon gives zero fucks. The president has no leverage over it because he's the richest man on the planet. He owns a major communications platform. He has his own fawning base of cult support, and also he spent more than a quarter of a billion dollars getting Trump into office. So, yeah, he feels like, I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do, and you're really not gonna have any say in it. And that means undercutting your announcement on Twitter. You're just gonna take it. And actually, Trump did just take it. Let's go ahead and play, Eric, if we can. Trump got asked about Elon undercutting him on the AI thing. And, you know, he was very unruffled about it. He was like, yeah, well, he hates one of the people involved. Referring to Sam Almany is. And he says something funny, something very Trump like, I have certain hatreds, too. So let's take a Look at that.
- [59:27]
Sagar Enjeti
Mr. President, does it bother you that Elon Musk criticized a deal that you made publicly?
- [59:32]
Krystal Ball
That he said that he tweeted that?
- [59:33]
Donald Trump
No, he hates one of the people in the deal.
- [59:36]
Sagar Enjeti
Have you spoken to him since then?
- [59:38]
Donald Trump
No, no. Well, I've spoken to Elon, but I've spoken to all of them, actually. No, no, people in the deal are very, very smart people. But Elon, one of the people he happens to hate. But I have certain hatreds of people, too.
- [59:51]
Krystal Ball
I'm certain hatreds of people, too. So it's.
- [59:54]
Sagar Enjeti
So that was a classic Trump moment. I mean, just, we all hate people that we do deals with, and we're adults about it, and we move on.
- [60:02]
Krystal Ball
Move on.
- [60:03]
Sagar Enjeti
He does have, like, he has some leverage over Elon Musk because clearly Musk has something. He has a lot at stake in his relationship with Trump and the U.S. government. And that's part of the problem, is that he's expecting favors in return. But Musk obviously would have so much power even if he fell out with Donald Trump. I mean, that's. It's.
- [60:23]
Krystal Ball
And we were talking about countries that have other places to turn, like, you know, to China. Like, Musk also can turn more to China.
- [60:30]
Sagar Enjeti
That's huge.
- [60:30]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. Because he has significant business relationships there and has really gone on his way to cultivate. I mean, this was also important. You remember that. That whole spending bill fight that he. And at that point, Vivek, who's now been excised from that kingdom. But in any case that they picked over that spending bill, and one of the things that got pulled ultimately out of the spending bill was these restrictions on high tech investments in China, because Musk didn't like that. So that is his agenda. That was not originally Trump's agenda, but he was able to successfully get it through just by using Twitter and throwing his weight around and threatening primaries in that context as well. Last piece here. Put C4 up on the screen. So both Elon and Doge are not popular. They are really unpopular. And this Musk approval rating has dramatically fallen. I mean, Americans have sort of. It's interesting. Americans have a reflexive bias against, I would say appropriate. So not biased in a negative way, but against billionaires as a group in general. But specific billionaires, they really buy into this. Oh, they must have done something great and they made a great product. They must deserve what they got, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And Elon had a very positive approval rating until pretty recently, and now his approval rating is roughly that of Joe Biden. So disapprove is 52%. So majority approve is only 36%. So you're talking about a third of the country that is still on board with this guy Doge, also not popular. I mean, you still have a good number of people in these numbers who are like, I don't really know what that Is. And I haven't made up my mind, but it's underwater by 10 points. You've only got 29% who are like yes to doge. Which to me, I'm actually kind of surprised about Emily because the idea of like we're gonna root out fraud, like who could be against that? But because Elon has become such a toxic figure that has sort of tanked the whole Doge project in terms of public perception. And then lastly, and I think this is the big Achilles heel for the Trump administration, if Democrats were able, willing to exploit it. 60% of people think that billionaires advising the President is bad and only 12% say this is good. And when you compare, when you pair the musk influence with all of those guys that were behind him on the dais, Zuckerberg and Bezos, and all of these people, all these billionaires, four of the five richest people on the entire planet standing behind him at the inauguration. Again, this is I think, a real vulnerability ultimately for Trump.
- [63:00]
Sagar Enjeti
So yeah, I mean, Trump thinks the world sees him as having co opted these CEOs and he can parade them around like trophies. And I don't think that's clear. You know, that's. And sounds like what I just said is entirely obvious. But Trump thinks that people are seeing him as the conqueror of Silicon Valley as opposed to the conquered. And Silicon Valley understands that, which is why they are allowing Trump to kind of frame it that way and are being obsequious. Obsequious, yeah.
- [63:31]
Krystal Ball
Yes.
- [63:31]
Sagar Enjeti
And that's. Yep. And Trump on the other hand, or they, I should say Silicon Valley on the other hand, has all of these plans actually to, to conquer the US government and to get these monopolistic contracts, actually. Interestingly, one of the things that Elon is fighting Sam Altman on is the OpenAI relationship with Microsoft. Elon is trying to compete in the AI space and is suing them for monopolistic practices. And he's completely right that it's a monopoly. It's a government sanctioned monopoly, essentially.
- [63:59]
Krystal Ball
Yeah.
- [64:00]
Sagar Enjeti
And our relationship, it's turning into like crony capital. Not turning into. It is crony capitalism when it comes to AI. It's a, it's a crony industrial policy that is being paraded as this like melee esque libertarian triumph. And it's nothing of the sort at all. And so the American public, when you have 60% saying they don't like the billionaires, Trump still thinks he has room to operate with that because it looks like he's kind of, he's on the same page. He's right. Like, these aren't, these guys aren't running the game government. I'm running these mother efforts. Like they're, they're answering to us. They're answering the us. And his, his thing going forward is going to be whether the public sees him as the conqueror or the conquered. And that for him is going to be a challenge to make it look like he really won. Because these guys are getting a hell of a lot at the. Out of the arrangement and increasingly more and more and more. So good luck.
- [64:51]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, no, that's, that's absolutely right. I mean, they're already getting, you know, the $500 billion Stargate thing is like, they're putting up the money. It's not supposed to be public funds, but just getting that big White House announcement and all that access. Trump already rolled back. There were a few, like, modest AI safety type of things, executive orders that Biden had signed, which we need to do way more. But at least it was something. He's already rolled those back. You know, they're doing their exploration about a digital asset reserve, which is just like, to me, so disgusting because, because like I said before, imagine he puts the Trump and Melania shitcoins in the digital asset reserve. That means you and me and you are all on the hook for pumping up the price of this just total, like, fake invented scam and many others besides. If it's a digital asset reserve, it could be any number of things that are in that and all. I mean, it's basically. Listen, crypto is an even more unequal marketplace than the general economy. There are a handful, like a few dozen gigantic whales that own the overwhelming bulk of cryptocurrencies. And so they have a problem, which is that if they sell a bunch into the market, then it completely tanks the price and they can't pull out any, like, real dollars out of this Ponzi scheme.
- [66:13]
Sagar Enjeti
Theoretically. They like to talk about, theoretically, the democratization that comes with crypto, but that's not in practice, what's happening at all.
- [66:18]
Krystal Ball
Not at all. Not at all. And with these meme coins, like, there's not even a theory of that really. It's just like, oh, yeah, it's just anarchy. It's just anarchy. It's just, it is a pyramid. It's just, can I get more people to be greater fools than me and get in after me and pump the price up? I mean, there's not even an illusion of like, with Bitcoin, there's some illusion of like, oh, this could be used for transactions and, you know, evading sanctions is the use that I personally prefer for Bitcoin as like the best use case. But with these, there's not even like a theory of that, of it being used or useful in any way other than just like, brazen speculation. So in any case, he is doing a lot for them. He is taking any sort of breaks off in terms of AI development. And also, I mean, he removed Lina Khan and the guy that he put in is much less signaled to be much less aggressive in terms of antitrust enforcement. And they're all going to get a giant tax cut, that much is for sure. So they already hit. Gotten a lot out of the deal. And I think your way of framing it, Emily, is totally correct about it's going to all come down to whether Trump is seen as like, the victor or the vanquished of these billionaires.
- [67:31]
Sagar Enjeti
Right. And, you know, it's not just that he, I think he understands. You know, a lot of people are arguing this sort of basic point that it looks gross to surround yourself with all of these oligarchs, but I think Trump sees that differently. His perception of it is that he looks like he. He has taken over the men who opposed him at every step. And it's true. Like, Zuckerberg is a great example of somebody who poured a lot of money into the 2020 election. And it wasn't with the goal of getting Donald Trump elected or getting as many people to the polls as possible. It was, he supported Joe Biden. And here Trump has him on his dais at his inauguration. It's not just about the proximity to power. It's about saying, I own you now. But the public may not see it that way going forward for the very reason that Trump was successful in the first place, which is that people, people hate billionaires. And Trump came out as somebody who hated other billionaires.
- [68:21]
Krystal Ball
Yeah.
- [68:22]
Sagar Enjeti
And good luck.
- [68:23]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. So true.
- [68:37]
Elon Musk
Amazon One Medical presents painful thoughts.
- [68:42]
Krystal Ball
I could catch anything sitting in this doctor's waiting room.
- [68:46]
Sagar Enjeti
Okay, just wiped his runny nose on.
- [68:47]
Krystal Ball
My jacket and the guy next to me sitting in a pool of perspiration.
- [68:51]
Sagar Enjeti
Insists on sharing my armrest.
- [68:55]
Elon Musk
Next time, make an appointment with an Amazon One medical provider. There's no waiting and no sweaty guy. Amazon One Medical healthcare just got less painful.
- [69:07]
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