← Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
1/30/25: DCA Plane Crash, RFK Confirmation, Trump UFO Coverup, Medicaid Chaos & MORE!
01:52:24
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- [00:00]
Krystal Ball
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- [00:31]
Sagar Enjeti
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Krystal Ball
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Jeremy Corbell
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- [00:52]
Sagar Enjeti
At Lenovo.com Lenovo Lenovo.
- [01:00]
Jeremy Corbell
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- [01:30]
Sagar Enjeti
Hey guys, Sagar and Krystal here.
- [01:32]
Krystal Ball
Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.
- [01:39]
Sagar Enjeti
This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.
- [01:45]
Krystal Ball
So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.
- [01:56]
Sagar Enjeti
We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breaking points.com Morning everybody. We have a great show for everybody today but we have a horrible tragedy here in the D.C. area which we're going to go ahead and start with. So go ahead Crystal.
- [02:10]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, so we're going to have breaking news about that mid flight collision between a regional jet and a military helicopter. Tell you everything we know this morning. We're also going to take a look at some of the political news coming out of dc. We had the RFK confirmation yesterday. Tulsi's hearing is going to be today. We're going to give you the latest on whatever's going on with that spending freeze. Another judge weighed in there. We're going to try to get in a block with the breaking news. The show is a little bit scrambled. We're going to try to get in a block about Elon's attempts to cull the federal workforce. Jeremy Corbell is going to join. We got an answer from the White House sort of on the New Jersey drones situation. Not very satisfying. So Jeremy will do a great job breaking that down. And Peter Beinart is going to join me to talk about his new book, being Jewish after the destruction of Gaza. But let's go ahead and break into that horrific news we got last night. A regional jet, American Airlines regional jet that was traveling from Wichita, Kansas, collided last night with a military Black Hawk helicopter that was doing a training flight from Thor Belvoir. 64 people were on board that American Airlines jet. 3 were on board the military helicopter, as far as we know. So search and rescue efforts this morning are ongoing in the icy Potomac River. At this point, it's hard to imagine that there would be survivors, but we continue to pray for some kind of a miracle. Thus far as of 8:01am the latest that we have is that 27 bodies have been recovered of those who were known to be on board. And this is the first major airline accident that we've had in this country since 2009. I'm gonna show you a video that was taken from a nearby webcam that shows the midair collision and the explosion. I mean, it is horrifying to watch. So just a warning before I go ahead and put this up on the screen. But let's go ahead and play this so people can see what we're talking about. This is the approach and then you see this explosion mid air. If you look more closely here, you can actually see the jet and then the helicopter coming right towards it. And you see the moment of impact and this unbelievable flash in the sky. You know, people who were nearby at dca, this is literally miles away from where we sit right now, said that they were able to see the explosion. They heard a loud boom. Of course, the airport is completely shuttered at this point in time. And, you know, there are going to be a lot of questions about how the hell this happened. But let's take a listen to this is actually an Australian news broadcast. But they did a good job of breaking down what we know as of, you know, relatively, relatively recently about what occurred let's take a listen to that.
- [04:49]
Sagar Enjeti
This plane was immediately diverted away from the airport. The passengers watching the horrifying news unfolding beneath them on their in flight screens. The Potomac splits two states, Maryland and Virginia and Washington D.C. the White House is just kilometres from the crash site as well as the Capitol building and some of America's most important national monuments. The Pentagon is just across the river. It's our deep sorrow about these events. This is a difficult day for all of us at American Airlines and the American Airlines Care team has been activated to assist our passengers and their families.
- [05:25]
Krystal Ball
So that's a little bit of information that was coming out yesterday evening. We have a photo that we can show you here of some of the wreckage that is being pulled from the Potomac. You can see the airport there in the background. Anyone who's traveled to D.C. or lives in this area, very familiar with this airport, very familiar with the approach. The airspace around here is tremendously busy. That's something we'll return to, maybe one of the factors that contributed to this. But at this point, you know, we're just learning the very basics. And then let's put the CNN tear sheet up on the screen as well. That gives what we know about what was going on at the time of this crash. So the headline here, FAA issues ground stop at Reagan National Airport after passenger plane collides midair with helicopter. And they say in this article the passenger plane was American Airlines Flight 5342 operated by PSA Airlines. It was traveling from Wichita, Kansas. I saw some information this morning also that indicated there were a number of kids who were returning from a figure skating camp who had been selected to get to go to this camp. And they were on their way back. The kids and the coaches, some of them were the individuals who were on board. That plane was due to land at the airport outside of D.C. per CNN Wednesday evening, collided midair with that U.S. army helicopter as it approached the Runway. Flight records showed the plane was expected to land around 9pm local time. D.C. police said it received calls at 8:53pm about an aircraft crash above the Potomac River. So it was just about to land. The US Army Black Hawk helicopter was on a training flight at the time of the incident. The 12th Aviation Battalion based out of Fort Belvoir in Virginia provides helicopter transportation and technical rescue to the National Capital region. Remains unclear where the Black Hawk took off from before the collision. So that is by and large what we know. Sager at this point.
- [07:19]
Sagar Enjeti
It's just really horrifying honestly to Think about, I drove past the crash site this morning. The airport remains sealed. It's a very eerie morning here in Washington. There's no planes up in the sky. As we said, this is one of the busiest airports in the entire country, one of the busiest runways, one of the most congested pieces of airspace. And it's very heavily controlled because it is so sensitive. Close to the White House, the national monuments.
- [07:41]
Krystal Ball
Pentagon's right there.
- [07:41]
Sagar Enjeti
Pentagon, that's right. You literally can see much of it on my entire drive in. And it's horrifying to learn from the emergency rescue people. They say that no survivors are expected. We're obviously praying for a miracle, knowing some of what's happened. But yeah, for those who aren't aware coming into this airport, it happens right off of a river. It's very similar. If you've ever flown into San Francisco airport, a similar type of approach that comes where you come straight off the water right onto the Runway. This is a smaller aircraft, a regional jet that was coming in. This was coming into one of the smaller ones in Washington and that appears to be right where the collision. But the big question mark is how this is all possible. I mean, for me it's genuinely unfathomable that helicopters are crisscrossing this Runway. I'm told by the Transportation Secretary who just did a press conference this morning. He says a routine flight path, of course, of which I had no idea. We can only speculate a little bit at this time. Some of the aviation experts that I've checked in on basically say that it was a perfect storm of horrible things that happened where air traffic control called out to the helicopter, told them to watch out for a rj, which is shorthand for a smaller aircraft.
- [08:48]
Krystal Ball
Regional jet.
- [08:48]
Sagar Enjeti
Regional jet. There was actually a regional jet that was taking off at the same time. So the speculation is, is the helicopter pilots are looking over to the right at a taking off aircraft. Air traffic control tells them, hey, you need to get behind that aircraft. They think that they have plenty of clearance for that takeoff. When meanwhile, what air traffic control really meant was this incoming regional jet that was landing, making its final approach. Helicopter pilots eyes are too the right where the jet is coming in on the left. The other problem is when you're coming down is that the collision lights apparently on the helicopter would have looked just like the landing lights. There's a lot of other lights was happening here as you come down. You're literally landing in the midst of a major city and there's lights everywhere. So it would have been Difficult for the pilot to distinguish. And also, I mean, if you're literally coming out on top of something and your eyes are trained directly on your landing strip or the Runway, then you're not necessarily looking for peripheral vision. And that's how that happened. Because that the most shocking part about the video is that just it looks almost like the helicopter is making a beeline for it. Yeah, straight for it. Now keep in mind we don't have, you know, look, all indications right now this was an accident. But you know, there's all, there's full investigation that remains to be happened. So we have three U.S. army service members who are on board the helicopter. You have some 60 odd passengers. Apparently this is the. If, if all are confirmed dead, which is very, very likely according to EMS and rescue recovery or the recovery operation currently going down, this is going to be the deadliest crash in the United States in four years. Even more so than that 2009 crash in over New York State.
- [10:21]
Krystal Ball
And while that is the case, we know because we've been covering here closely, there have been so many near misses tons in the past couple of years and so many people raising red flags about do we have enough air traffic controllers? You know, some of this has to do with also this is unrelated obviously to this crash, but that raised a lot of questions about the manufacturer, Boeing. This has been something that has been an ongoing concern because we had narrowly avoided horrible tragedies just in the past couple of years, several times. And now everybody's worst fears here coming true. This was Sean Duffy, the new Transportation Secretary's first day, literally, literally his first day on the job. So now he's having to go out and give a press conference about this terrible tragedy. There are going to be a lot of questions about how the hell this could happen. Let me go ahead and put M3 up on the screen. This is just the official announcement confirming the crash here from the FAA. They say a PSA Airlines Bombardier C3J CRJ. Sorry, if I could read. 700 regional jet collided in midair with the Sikorsky H60 helicopter, commonly known as a Blackhawk, while on approach to Runway 33 at Reagan Washington National Airport around 9pm local time. PSA was operating that flight as American Airlines departed from Wichita, Kansas. FAA and NTSB will investigate. The NTSB will lead the investigation. Sagar was alluding to the flight path of this regional jet. We have an animation, we can show you of this specific flight path as it was being tracked here. You can see it there over Maryland. And then it comes across the Potomac river and is just about to land there at the airport when it crashes. And the Potomac river there separates Maryland, Virginia. You go a little bit further down and you're right there in D.C. and so that is typical flight path. I did read that this was a particularly busy time at the airport. There were a lot of planes coming in, going out, et cetera. That could have contributed, as Sagar was alluding, because you could have had confusion about which regional jet the helicopter was being warned about. Apparently air traffic control was in communication both with the regional jet attempting to land and with this military training helicopter. As a layman, I don't know anything, but it does seem crazy that these helicopters were there at the time, especially as the airport is so incredibly busy. And I'm sure that will be a topic of discussion.
- [12:46]
Sagar Enjeti
I mean, I've been landing in at this airport literally since I was 18 years old, so almost 15 years. I've never seen a helicopter out the window. Maybe I'm not paying attention. I don't know. But we do have a statement here from President Trump. Let's put that, please, on the screen. Quote, I have been fully briefed on the terrible accident which just took place at Reagan National Airport. May God bless their souls. Thank you for the incredible work being done by our first responders. I am monitoring the situation. I will provide more details as they arise. And so that's really all we know now at this point. Now, the big question marks are about some of the things that we are gonna look at for transport safety. And in the background of all of this, we'll recall all of those near misses that were happening over the last four years. Bizarrely, we seem to have weird connections to some of these. I mean, we were on the ground in Austin, I think, the very hour that there was one of the nearest Mrs. Ever in US history happened right there on the Runway where they had to abort a landing very, very quickly and avoid a collision there. But this raises big questions about specifically, really about the air traffic control, which all the near misses have highlighted. Staffing problems, software issues. There's been accusations by the airlines, by the unions, et cetera. Nobody really knows anything. They're gonna be a spotlight now on aviation safety. And that's the question mark now. Cause this is, you know, look, you know, it's not necessarily the Trump administration or whatever's fault, but they're gonna have to deal with it now that this happens. And that's the big question mark is what are they gonna do? Because what I would like to say is somebody needs to burn for this. Like this isn't just some. We're throwing it to the pilot. If there is imprecise language that is not drilled into the heads of air traffic control or if some guy is tired because he's been on for a double shifter, something like that. We need to know every single thing about this because now it looks like some 60 odd people are dead as a result of this accident. We need to talk about this helicopter situation. It's true. There are Black Hawks circling Washington literally all the time. For what reason? Why you were supposed to be training. We're supposed to be doing training flights, which this apparently was right there across the airport. You know, there's go two miles down the other way. Look again, easy. I'm a layman. I can only say this, but literally a customer of the airport have been landing there millions of times. Lots of other people in this area and most importantly, they're the families of these people. They will need both answers and every passenger. That's what Secretary Duffy said that we all learned. Like we have question marks when we fly in the United States. It's a point of pride for our faa, for our country to so see something like this, which is almost certainly some sort of horrible accident tragedy. There has to be major reforms.
- [15:32]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, there's no doubt about it. And look, Trump's been in office a week. I think it will be difficult. A lot of people are sharing some of the moves that he's made. We could put the next piece up on the screen here for the Huffington Post that he came in, he gutted a key aviation safety committee, fired the head of the TSA Coast Guard. Obvious. We're going to try to get to a block later in the show about this. People are calling it a buyout. It's not really a buyout, but they say that people can continue working from home until the fall if they promise to resign at that point. But, you know, an effort to call the federal government again. Trump's been in office for a week. However, I do think that this will cast those attempts to strip the federal government down to bare bones in a different light because it is a reminder that having sufficient personnel of high quality can be a matter of life and death. You know, the air traffic controllers, we'll see whether they are to blame or not. That continues to be an open question. But the functions of the federal government really, really matter. One thing that may be quite relevant here is some of the lever news outlet, David Sirota's outlet that we Always appreciate there report is out. With this report we can put this up on the screen. So months ago before this collision, lawmakers brushed off warnings and boosted flights. So despite the fact that there had been mid flight near Mrs. Dire please airline bankrolled lawmakers recently expanded flight traffic at Washington's busy airport. Apparently they just added an additional number of flights.
- [17:12]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, they did.
- [17:12]
Krystal Ball
To this airport. And the all both senators from Virginia and Maryland. So four senators total voted against this as a protest saying this airport is already too busy. There are already, it's already dangerous. There are already too many flights going in and out. You can't add five more flights to this airport. Everybody else voted for this bill. And you know, was this a contributing factor to this crash? Nobody knows at this point but that is certainly potentially the case that the busyness, just the sheer number of flights in and out of this airspace helped to create the dynamic that led to this horrific tragedy.
- [17:57]
Sagar Enjeti
That's going to be one of the actually was very supportive of those opening slots. But for people who want to know why they did that, it's because lawmakers don't want to drive. If you're not from D.C. it won't make a lot of sense. But there's two airports here. There's Washington DCA which is like a 10 minute drive from the city and then there's Washington Dulles which is like an hour drive, maybe more with traffic. And the people who represent the state of California and a few others who want direct flights that they can get to from Congress open up these new slots because they want to be able to go home quicker. Just so everybody understands what their motivation was for voting for that. You're absolutely right and actually one of the reasons so I was supportive of that but one of the problems was they didn't increase the number of air traffic control and some of the safety mechanisms that were at the airport. Now I actually was not fully aware that that provision had not been added or had been extended more fully. Now obviously we are so like I said somebody when 60 some odd people are killed clearly as a result of systemic and even if it is pilot error, there are systemic things that have contributed to that. You need to have a full root to branch examination of all the problems that happen. It does appear that there have been people who have been warning about this now for years about both congestion, about DCA specifically from the new slots being added at the airport and all of that. And so we should listen to them. We should need to have actual hearing. This is one of the Least things that we should. It's one of those things where we really need to. For the families of those people who have so tragically lost their lives, like actually do them service. And also for our own country.
- [19:34]
Krystal Ball
Yeah.
- [19:35]
Sagar Enjeti
This is our nation's capital.
- [19:36]
Krystal Ball
Right. Well, and to avoid this happening again, because as of just a few months ago, air traffic control, they're short roughly 3,000 air traffic controllers nationwide. So there's been an ongoing shortage. So I certainly hope that no air traffic controllers are planning to take the buyout because this is an area where we need more and highly qualified. I think that's capable.
- [20:00]
Sagar Enjeti
I think that's work from home, not it's only for work from home employees. Doesn't apply to everybody.
- [20:04]
Krystal Ball
Well, they received, they received the same email offering them the same thing.
- [20:08]
Sagar Enjeti
I think it went to every federal employee.
- [20:10]
Krystal Ball
Yeah.
- [20:10]
Sagar Enjeti
In terms of eligibility, look, I have no idea. I actually haven't looked specifically to air traffic control. I know there were certain areas that were exempt in terms of which specific departments, because when they say it's all federal employees, really only half of the people who even qualify, they blasted it to everybody. We'll talk about it more in the bio. But yes, listen. Yeah, please stay. And beyond that, let's think about it. And you're right, you know, look, some of the federal government is extremely superfluous and stupid and some of it is extremely critical.
- [20:37]
Krystal Ball
Absolutely. Life or death critical. And this is certainly one of those instances. So we'll keep an eye on anything new that comes out because this obviously has immense, immense consequences for safety of air travel, which a lot of Americans already rightfully had a lot of concerns about, given all the near misses, of course.
- [20:57]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, near misses, Boeing and all this, all these questions. I mean, don't forget about all of the investigations that happened after those horrible Boeing crashes as a result of software. And then nobody goes to jail for it. You know, this is what I'm talking about where we have, you know, if you improperly are driving your car and it's your fault, like, you're gonna face consequences for that. But when hundreds of people get killed as a result of this, people, oh, they have to pay a fine or whatever. Well, I don't think that's satisfactory. And so I'm really hoping that somebody gets punished for this, whoever is responsible. Not a scalp or something like that, but somebody. An actual investigation from NTSB on downwards. I also have.
- [21:37]
Krystal Ball
And then that we have real. With the public, real change, you know, yes, if it's a human error, but also like you said it is likely to be emblematic of a broader systematic issue.
- [21:48]
Sagar Enjeti
Human errors occur within, don't occur within a vacuum, they occur within this system. Aviation is one of those which were most tightly controlled, focused on specifically like you said, because of the stakes.
- [21:58]
Krystal Ball
Well, there's supposed to be multiple layers of fail safes. It's supposed to be the case that you would have to have a whole series of things go wrong, mistakes and errors and things go wrong to result in this sort of a horrific crash. Because the stakes are so incredibly high.
- [22:15]
Sagar Enjeti
Really, really just so tragic for the families of all, all these people are going to learn more. I'll keep everybody updated as to all of it. But yeah, just awful for the city, for Wichita where these people were all coming from. Apparently there were two world class figure skaters, champions who were on the plane from Russia. All of them just really, really tragically lost.
- [22:38]
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- [23:26]
Tulsi Gabbard
It out.
- [23:30]
Jeremy Corbell
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- [23:41]
Sagar Enjeti
Clorox Sandiva smells like lavender.
- [23:46]
Krystal Ball
Cleans like Clorox and feels like, hmm, all right, that could go on for a while. Experience the long lasting freshness of Clorox Scentiva. Now available in Clorox Scentiva lavender scented bleach. Use as directed.
- [24:10]
Sagar Enjeti
Let's go to RFK Jr. So RFK Jr. Testified yesterday. He will testify again before the United States Senate. Two different committees that he appears over because HHS is actually split into two. The Health and Human Services Department for oversight before the Senate. So this is his first. You did see the opening of what we're likely to see more of today. Lots of Democratic attacks here on RFK Jr using some of his past statements against him. First, we're gonna go ahead and take a listen to his opening statement where he thanked President Trump and basically laid out the Make America Healthy again movement and we'll get of the Q and A. Let's take a listen.
- [24:50]
Tulsi Gabbard
Today, Americans overall health is in grievous condition. Over 70% of adults and a third of children are overweight or obese. Diabetes is 10 times more prevalent than it was during the 1960s. Cancer among young people is rising by 1 or 2% a year. Autoimmune diseases, neurodevelopmental disorders, Alzheimer's, asthma, ADHD, depression, addiction and a host of other physical and mental health conditions are all on the rise, some of them exponentially. There is no single culprit in chronic disease. Much as I have criticized certain industries and agencies, President Trump and I understand that most of their scientists and experts genuinely care about American health. Therefore, we will bring together all stakeholders in pursuit of this unifying goal. I want to make sure the committee is clear about a few things. News reports have claimed that I am anti vaccine or any industry. I am neither. I am pro safety.
- [26:09]
Sagar Enjeti
Pro vaccine protesters behind RFK Jr. By the way, don't worry, he was not singled out. It's a Washington tradition to be screamed down by protesters in your confirmation hearing for everybody. Let's get then to what he referenced there, vaccine statements. That is where the bulk of a lot of the criticism against RFK Jr was concentrated by from a lot of the Democrats. Let's take a listen to some of that questioning.
- [26:35]
Tulsi Gabbard
So I'm running out of time. I think the gist of what you're trying to say today is you're really pro vaccine. You want to ask questions. You have started a group called the Children's Health Defense. You're the originator. Right now, as I understand it, on their website, they are selling what's called onesies. These are little things, clothing for babies. One of them is titled Unfaxed, Unafraid, next one. And they're sold for 26 bucks apiece, by the way. Next one is no vax, no problem. Now you're coming before this committee and you say you're pro vaccine. Just want to ask some questions. And yet your organization is making money selling a child's product to parents for 26 bucks, which cast fundamental doubt on the usefulness of vaccines. Can you tell us now that you will, now that you are pro vaccine, that you're going to have your organization take these products off the market? Senator, I have no power over that organization. I'm not part of it. I resigned from the board. That was just a few months ago. You founded that. You certainly have power. You can make that. Are you supportive of this I've had nothing to do with. Are you supportive of these onesies? I'm supportive of vaccines. Are you supportive of this clothing which is militantly anti vaccine? I am supportive of vaccines. I want good science and I want to protect. But you will not tell the organization you founded not to continue selling them.
- [28:15]
Krystal Ball
Are you lying to Congress today when.
- [28:17]
Tulsi Gabbard
You say you are pro vaccine or.
- [28:20]
Krystal Ball
Did you lie on all those podcasts?
- [28:22]
Tulsi Gabbard
We have all of this on tape, by the way. Yeah, Senator, as you know, because it's been repeatedly debunked. That statement that I made on the Lex Friedman podcast was a fragment of the statement he asked me and anybody who actually goes and looks at that podcast and will see this. He asked me, are there vaccines that are safe and effective? And I said to him, some of the live virus vaccines are. And I said, there are no vaccines that are safe and effective. And I was gonna continue for every person, every medicine has people who are sensitive to them.
- [29:00]
Sagar Enjeti
Are you supportive of the onesie being the iconic line from the hearing, but basically that I watched the entire thing. That was basically a taste of all of the Democratic questioning. Do you wanna weigh in before we play the Lex Friedman clip? Because that's the one that Ron Wyden referenced in his opening statement and then was brought up several more times by Senator Cantwell, Senator Bennett and a few others.
- [29:21]
Krystal Ball
I mean, listen, I would never support RFK Jr. For this position because he has been consistently over the course of the past two decades. I would say anti vax and so I would never support him for this position, but I would respect it more if he would actually rep the position that he has held consistently for the past two decades. And we'll show you the Lex Friedman thing. The thing he says about it is total and complete nonsense. Not to mention, even if you take that out of it, like, he founded the Children's health defense in 2011. He led that organization. It has been consistently anti vax. Now what he'll say is, oh, I'm not against vaccines. I just think that none of the existing vaccines are actually safe. He has his own children vaccinated, but he also has said he would do anything to go back and have them not be vaccinated. So listen, there's a lot of people out there now who are anti vax. Okay, you've succeeded. Your movement has grown. I think that that movement is devastating to public health. I think it's contra to science. And I think that vaccine development has been one of the greatest inventions of modern medicine in terms of reducing, extending lives and reducing deaths, et cetera, et cetera. But you have succeeded in winning a lot of people over this cause. So rep. That cause. Like, why are you running away from it?
- [30:39]
Sagar Enjeti
Because you can't get confirmed.
- [30:40]
Krystal Ball
Well, and that's the thing that's so pathetic is like, okay, then, I mean, you like. One of the most preposterous moments here is you guys all know how critical RFK Jr. Was about the COVID vaccine. Many of you out there are probably, like, on board with his criticisms. I actually believe what he says in this confirmation hearing. He's like, operation Warp Speed was amazing. It was great. The vaccine development was spectacular. It's like, why should anyone believe a goddamn word that you have to say about anything when this has been the core of your views and your life's work for the past several decades? And you will just throw it in the garbage so that you can get closer to power.
- [31:20]
Sagar Enjeti
It's just like a gabber. It's the only way that you're gonna get confirmed. So, look, it's politics. I'm not saying I forgive it. No, necessarily. I do think he probably should have just. This is part of the problem, though, with these confirmation hearings. It's like cable news. You only have 5 minutes of question and answer. You can't really get into it. In terms of what he said for past criticism of MMR and the polio vaccine, his defense and the defense of Maha and all those other people is basically like, if no vaccine can be 100% safe and effective, all vaccines, all medicine has side effects. Look, in general, I don't think that you're wrong, that there are a lot of people now whose eyes have really been open to the medical system. And to be honest, I find myself in that category. I mean, I thought RFK Jr was some evil person. And then, you know, you learn a little bit more. I thought COVID vaccine really opens your eyes. There's a lot of questions here about vaccination schedules and the way that we do things. And even the legislation that has been passed, I think is a legitimate question.
- [32:22]
Krystal Ball
That's not his position.
- [32:23]
Sagar Enjeti
No, but okay, in practice, that is the position of how it will look like as a member of the United.
- [32:27]
Krystal Ball
States government and this. Well, I mean, but that's not really true. I mean, he has a lot of power. If he is confirmed in this position, which there's still a question mark about. I don't think that any. I mean, I thought the Democratic questioning here was much more effective with RFK than it was with Pete Hegseth, for example, for one key reason, which is they actually focused on his relevant policy, like statements relevant to policy for this position. So I do think that they landed some effective blows here, not to mention just. Just how ridiculous you look to completely change your position on a dime with no real explanation. So if he was just like, maybe we should look at the schedule and other European countries do it differently, blah, blah, blah, that is not what he's been out there doing.
- [33:17]
Sagar Enjeti
That is true.
- [33:17]
Krystal Ball
There was questioning about him and his organization's involvement in these deaths in Samoa, of which the people who were involved there say that the impact of his lies and his organization's lies helped to contribute not 100%, but helped to contribute to the death of dozens of kids from not getting vaccinated. After there was a horrific human error type accident with regard to the MMR vaccine, they seized on it and lied and said that the whole vaccine was unsafe. People were terrified. They stopped getting their kids vaccinated. There was a virulent outbreak of measles and dozens of kids died. So I listen. There are things that RFK Jr says that I actually agree with, especially when it comes to food and pesticides and ultra processed foods in particular. If he was up for Ag Secretary, I might actually consider putting him in that position because I think that his views are more grounded in science and I think he could actually effectuate some of the things he cares about with regard to nutrition, healthier lifestyle, et cetera. He'd be in a better position to do that as HHS Secretary. I think that he could be incredibly, actually deadly for this nation, especially as we're heading into the possibility. We have an ongoing threat of an avian flu pandemic. There is a vaccine, by the way, that exists for avian flu. And guess what? RFK Jr has gone out and said that he doesn't think it's safe. So in addition, maybe he's right.
- [34:50]
Sagar Enjeti
What do we know about bird flu vaccines? What are we gonna trust Dr. Fauci and the rest of these people? Sagar, this is part of what we're getting at here with the hhs. How can it be worse than right now? You're saying it's deadly? We're already living in a deadly country. It could be worse.
- [35:03]
Krystal Ball
It could be worse by reducing vaccination rates and having polio and measles outbreaks and people dying.
- [35:09]
Sagar Enjeti
But again, most of these children are going to die of diabetes, cancer, like.
- [35:14]
Krystal Ball
So then he should support health care for all Medicare.
- [35:17]
Sagar Enjeti
I understand that that's your position. But that's not what the American people voted for on Trump. It's clearly like, what can you even.
- [35:24]
Krystal Ball
Do about nutrition at hhs that falls under the Ag Secretary would be in a better position.
- [35:31]
Sagar Enjeti
That's not necessary at HHS to deal with that sort of dietary guidelines. As he talks about with snap, he will have immense regulatory authority. I mean, this is part of what I'm talking about with this vaccine thing. Look, I completely understand and I used to be really in this camp. I just don't see how it could be bad to publish the studies and the safety and then leave parents with some choice like, look, that's not even.
- [35:51]
Krystal Ball
What I'm saying though.
- [35:51]
Sagar Enjeti
But that's in practice. He said, I will not touch the polio vaccine, I will not touch the MMR vaccine.
- [35:56]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, but he is clearly willing to lie about everything all the time when it serves his interest. I think that it is, yes. He's a politician.
- [36:04]
Sagar Enjeti
I'm not forgiving it per se.
- [36:05]
Krystal Ball
I think we should assume that what his life's work has been, which is to tell people that all vaccines are unsafe and to try to get them to not vaccinate their kids as emblematic of the onesies. Right. The fact that even he wants this baby propaganda about them not getting any vaccines, I think you should assume that that is the ideology that he takes into this position. And like I said, I'd have a lot more respect if he would actually rep. What he has said and what he believes and the fact that he will just run 180 degrees, turn on a dime, do whatever he can to get into power, is to me utterly disgraceful and unforgivable. And when you are in that position, he could effectively. So one thing he could do is eliminate certain vaccines from being covered by Medicaid. By the way, he doesn't seem to appear to know the difference between Medicaid and Medicare. Was very confused about that during the hearings. But he could eliminate a number of vaccines getting covered by Medicaid. That in and of itself would make it impossible for many poor parents to get their kids properly vaccinated. He could also change the current structure and make it basically so that it is unprofitable and impossible for vaccine makers to continue to distribute and sell vaccines. He would have tremendous power in this position. And so if you're anti vax and you just think that you should let it fly and you're cool with measles, Napoleon, whatever, coming back, then this is your guy. But this is one of the primary things he'll have responsibility for. And I think he already, already has done tremendous damage and has blood on his hands, literally in the case of Samoa, for the type of lies, unscientific lies, not legitimate questions of which that's fine, but unscientific lies that he has spent decades at this point printing.
- [37:51]
Sagar Enjeti
Look, I understand that the Samoa thing is complicated, as we know.
- [37:54]
Krystal Ball
It's not complicated, no.
- [37:54]
Sagar Enjeti
I mean, look, I've cited the Rene Prasad thing. I read it. It's pretty convincing. Not that it was necessarily 100% fault. There's a lot of the questions about, about MMR. But look, I guess where it comes down to is that the vax position is that blood on his hands, et cetera. It's like, well, how come there's no smoke? If there was a traditional pharma lobbyist here, wouldn't they have 10 times more blood on their hands and more responsibility for all of the chaos that has been wrought in our healthcare system? Look, I understand your position. Universal healthcare and all that did not win within the Republican context. Honestly, this is as good as it gets. As opposed to what? Who was our previous HHS secretary? That moron who was taking private flights, what was his name? Tom Price. Using US taxpayer dollars to pay for a private jet. You got somebody here who at least can publish some safety data. Who? What did he say? He said people should be able to buy whatever they want as long as they have the knowledge in front of them. Look, you gotta go to war with the fighters that you have. This is, on balance, I think it's much better than any traditional HHS secretary who could have taken that position. And you know, look, the vaccine question here about Medicaid, et cetera. Right now, U.S. government policy and state policy forces you to comply with the schedule or face immense consequences socially, public school and all of that. Do you think that that's fair in all of these era of the post Covid landscape? I don't believe a word that these people say. I'm serious. I really don't. After what I read.
- [39:20]
Krystal Ball
You don't think the polio vaccine is a good thing? You think the MMR vaccine is a good thing?
- [39:23]
Sagar Enjeti
I think the polio and the vaccine, okay, but there's 63 vaccinations that children get before what they age 4.
- [39:28]
Krystal Ball
So tell me which one you would get rid of.
- [39:30]
Sagar Enjeti
I'll tell you right now. There's no the HPV or what is the Hepatitis B vaccine that's given to a child literally the moment it's birth, for literally for societal reasons which only applies to drug addicts. No way, not happening. And the societal consequences you face for this and the medical system and the way that they push this stuff, it's unbelievable you brought up vaccine profit. It's like, I mean how many times we talked here on the show about drug profit and the ability.
- [39:54]
Krystal Ball
The answer to that is not listen, here's my core problem. His diagnosis of the system and what's wrong with it I think is completely wrong. The problem is not that the vaccines don't work. The vaccines do work. We have decades of information showing that the vaccines work and have saved huge numbers of lives. That's not the problem. The problem is a lack of access to health care. The, the problem is a lack of ability to pay for healthcare. The problem is a profit motive at the center of healthcare. What he wants to do has nothing to do with any of that. It's just a reaction, an immediately knee jerk reaction against any actual like scientific medicine and advancements in favor of some like natural hippie dippy woo woo bullshit.
- [40:41]
Sagar Enjeti
But why is that so bad?
- [40:42]
Krystal Ball
Which is way less because. Why, why is it bad? I like kids to not get sick and die. That's why it's bad.
- [40:48]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, but this is, this is a straw man arg. RFK vaccine is added to the schedule literally last year.
- [40:53]
Krystal Ball
What do we know about the RF vaccine? It's a straw man argument.
- [40:56]
Sagar Enjeti
Okay, well we have 63 people who are dead from in Samoa. Again with an open question mark. Whether it's 100% RFK Jr. S fault or not, There are what, tens of millions who have died now of chronic illness and of disease here in the United States. Like where's the smoke and question mark?
- [41:12]
Krystal Ball
But what is this going to do with regard again, if he was up for ag Secretary, I think there's a lot more he could do about lifestyle, diet, pesticide.
- [41:23]
Sagar Enjeti
But HHS guidelines control that the SNAP program, as he talked about 10, I had no idea by the way that 10% of SNAP dollars are spent on sugary drinks and 60% of SNAP dollars are spent on processed food. Now again, I don't even disagree and my least libertarian opinion is he was like, oh, we shouldn't be telling people what to eat. I'm like actually we probably, probably should, especially if they're on government assistance. Secondary, I think question mark not gonna happen in the Republican party. But I mean on balance the current system is a disaster. We talk about it, drug addiction, obesity, cancer. I mean when you listen to not even him but go listen to the more credible people. Dr. Casey means, right. She's got a rant that's like three and a half minutes long of all of the chronic disease markers that have gone. His proposal for NIH is to end infectious disease coverage. Great. By the way, as we'll talk a little bit about with Lyme disease and to focus on chronic illness like cancer and obesity. I think you know one of the big drug company dreams right now is to have Medicare and Medicaid cover Ozempic for all including children. Maybe. But you know there should probably be some rigorous studies and long term views as to whether this is important or even useful for children and what the long term impact all of that in this country. We go drug first and not lifestyle. I think the HHS secretary does have a lot of impact. It is the largest organization in the entire US federal government. Even when you accept Medicare and Medicaid payments that are gone out of that. I mean what we look at the terms of the coverage like you're talking about with vaccines. I had no idea even from the hearing that 40% of births in this country are covered by Medicaid, which is insane. Which means that the government has total authority over payment and control over, over people's lives. Yeah, that's wrong. I think that's wrong.
- [43:06]
Krystal Ball
To me it's terrifying that I mean the man is a liar and a quack who spouts all kinds of. He's an HIV truther. He doesn't even believe that AIDS is caused by hiv. He makes stuff up.
- [43:17]
Sagar Enjeti
What's more dangerous quackery or institutional. Institutionalized death and pharma he wants institutionalize.
- [43:26]
Krystal Ball
A different sort of death. I mean this is the thing is I listen, I will grant maybe there are things he would do that I would support. Although I don't know the Snapchat, that's a longer debate. But I hold out the possibility that there are theoretically things he could do that I would support in this position. To me it does not outweigh the risk of confirming him and the immense damage that he could do to families and children and their health simply through his consistent anti vaccine views. I do want to get to the Lex Friedman clip because one of the things he'll say, you heard him in that clip that we played a long time ago at this point where he was like no, I totally didn't say that. It's taken out of context. I was gonna add like no vaccine is safe for everyone all the time if you listen to the clip. So we'll play the extended thing you can hear the whole context. That's not what he was saying. He was saying there is no. He theoretically may support some vaccine that theoretically exists, but he does not not support any of the vaccines that currently exist. Let's take a listen to what he had to say to Lex.
- [44:32]
Sagar Enjeti
You've talked about that. The media slanders you by calling you an anti vaxxer and you've said that.
- [44:38]
Peter Beinart
You'Re not anti vaccine, you're pro safe vaccine. Difficult question. Can you name any vaccines that you think are good?
- [44:48]
Tulsi Gabbard
I think some of the live virus vaccines are probably saw averting more problems than they're causing. There's no vaccine that is, you know, safe and effective. Big words. What about the polio?
- [45:05]
Peter Beinart
Can we talk about the.
- [45:06]
Tulsi Gabbard
Well, here's the pro. Here's the problem. Yes, yeah, here's the problem. The polio vaccine contained a, a virus called simian virus 40 SV40. It's one of the most carcinogenic materials that is known to man. In fact, it's used now by scientists around the world to induce tumors in rats and guinea pigs in labs. But it was in that vaccine, 98 million people who got that vaccine in my generation got it. And now you've had this explosion of soft tissue cancers in our generation that kill many, many, many, many, many more people than polio ever did. So if you say to me did the, you know, the polio vaccine was effective against polio, I'm going to say yes. If I say, if you say to me, did it kill more people, that it caused more deaths than avert, I would say I don't know because we don't have the data on that.
- [45:59]
Krystal Ball
So, but let's talk.
- [46:00]
Tulsi Gabbard
Well, you know, so we kind of.
- [46:02]
Peter Beinart
Have to narrow in on is it effective against the thing it's supposed to fight.
- [46:05]
Tulsi Gabbard
Well, a lot of them are. Let me give you an example. The most popular vaccine in the world is the DTP vaccine. Diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis. It was used in this kind of introduced in this country around 1980. That vaccine caused so many injuries that which was the manufacturer said to the Reagan administration, we are now paying $20 in downstream liabilities for every dollar that we're making in profits. And we are getting out of the business unless you give us permanent immunity from liability. So the vaccine companies then were given. And by the way, Reagan said at that time, why don't you just make the vaccine safe? And Wyeth said, because vaccines are inherently unsafe. They said unavoidably unsafe. You cannot make Them safe.
- [46:55]
Krystal Ball
You can hear the entire context there. Him saying no vaccine is safe and effective and then going on to explain why he has an opposition to polio vaccine, why he has these other problems with vaccines. And like I said before, listening, if that's your view, there are some people that agree with you at this point. Rep. That view. Rep. That view. But the reason he doesn't is because he knows that even though there has been an uptick in vaccine skepticism, it is still dramatically unpopular to actually be blanket anti vaxx which is why he always runs away from the label even though, sorry, it does apply and it has applied for a long time. So he has to hide the ball about what he actually believes. And so, you know, I mean that shows you that he knows what his views are. What he's articulated over decades are so poisonous in terms of how the American people would think about it that there's no way he could get confirmed if he actually held onto the views he's expecting there with life.
- [47:52]
Sagar Enjeti
He does. Look, I don't disagree. I think it's probably fair to say that he's been skeptical of all vaccines in the past. He doesn't think any are safe and effective. Again, I think it's a choose your fighter thing. Would you rather have somebody who's deeply skeptical of that system or somebody who's like yeah, no, it's actually totally fine. I mean, you know, using Claude. So blame Claude if these numbers are incorrect. You know, a child born in the United States today will receive 47 to 51 and up to 60 doses of a vaccine by the age 18. Before 1990 that was, it was between 10 to 17. So with the advances in medicine, the same doses and all of that, do we really believe that the public health system which delivered us COVID 19 and all of the death and everything where rigorous safety studies were done and that all of the correlative long term data on top of their exemption exists. I do not believe it for one second. And this doesn't just apply to vaccine. This is the problem. It's not vaccine. There was another senator, I forget her name, I think it was Cantwell who was railing at him for not supporting SSRIs. It's like there's a religion in this country around drugs, around let's just prescribe and move on and forget about it. I think that his general disposition against that is far more beneficial than any just wholesale quote unquote acceptance of whatever bullshit that these pharma companies publish in their preprints and and journals. And they don't even release all of the data. I mean, this was part of the real learning process, I think, for me, for millions of other people, through the COVID Net vaccine policy, through all of the justifications, you know, even today that they're pushing COVID 19 vaccines on pregnant women and flu shots and all this other stuff. Again, maybe, maybe it's safe. They tell us it is. But given how what has transpired over the last five years, and I think a lot of this, this comes back to. I mean, let's make a political point here. Donald Trump is not president without RFK Jr. In my opinion. Do you agree? I don't think there's a chance in.
- [49:52]
Krystal Ball
Hell that he wins.
- [49:53]
Sagar Enjeti
He would never win Michigan. No way. Considering how tight that the margin was there. Especially if you look at the margin in Pennsylvania and others. We did focus groups of a lot of these people. If he had not explicitly endorsed them, a lot of them were not gonna vote for Donald Trump. He is an integral part of the Maga 2025 coalition up there with the Libertarians.
- [50:15]
Krystal Ball
Then he should rep what he actually believes. But I mean, he should rep what he actually believes.
- [50:20]
Sagar Enjeti
What are we supposed to do?
- [50:21]
Krystal Ball
He should rep what she actually believes too.
- [50:23]
Sagar Enjeti
I mean, but that's not how politics works. I mean, look, I agree. I wish it were that way. Why are the idiots in the United States Senate even get a say over the Cabinet? I have no idea.
- [50:33]
Krystal Ball
So insulting for him to try to claim he's not anti vax. For him to try to. Oh, well, my kids are vaccinated.
- [50:40]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah.
- [50:40]
Krystal Ball
And you said you wish that you had never done that. You would do anything to go back and change things that like for you to just brazenly lie. I mean, and there were moments up there where he would be, they'd ask him a question. Did you say that the chemicals in the water are turning kids transient? Oh, no, I never said that. Oh, really? Well, here's five clips of you saying that. Did you compare the rollout of the COVID vaccine to Nazi death camps? Even though now you're like, oh, Operation Warp Speed was amazing. And Trump, it was great. It was such a great accomplishment. Blah, blah, blah. Oh, no, I didn't say that. Oh, really? Well, here's the transcript of you literally saying that. So listen, if you have those views, which are wrong and not based on anything right, you can doubt the pharmaceutical studies, but at least there are studies. At least we have years of data to back up the efficacy of these vaccines and the number of lives that they have saved. At least we have that versus, like, what you made up in your head. Because it is just as foolish to knee jerk, reject all of science, which is his posture. It is just as foolish to do that as to, you know, accept lock, stock and barrel everything that a pharmaceutical company tells you.
- [51:56]
Sagar Enjeti
That's true. But also.
- [51:56]
Krystal Ball
So if you really want to get at the problem here, which I would love to do, you have to take the profit motive out of healthcare. That's what you really need to do. Is there any impetus in that direction with RFK Jr. Whatsoever? No. No. And so, like I said, listen, for me, obviously we're not gonna come to agreement here today. For me, the theoretical potential, possible, maybe good, that he could do in this position is vastly outweighed by the longtime track record and committed ideological belief which has been at the core of his adult work and life, that he is against all vaccines and that he is a brazen liar who will say anything to anyone when it is convenient for him and his pursuit of power.
- [52:42]
Sagar Enjeti
I think rfk, look, I accepted we're going to move on to abortion. I think he's a politician. I agree. And I think it's sad what happens to these figures whenever they actually have to get into power. So, yeah, I agree. I wish he would have actually defended a lot of his views. I think. I think if you have to take a realpolitik view of this, would you rather have somebody who, quote, unquote accepts mainstream science, big pharma and all of that? Again, within the universe of options for MAGA for Donald J. Trump, would we rather have the billionaire CEO of Pfizer or somebody be HHS secretary or somebody who thinks that the Pfizer people have been lying to people for decades? I'm gonna go with the latter. And I think that that's a core to the reason why RFK Jr has even become a popular MAGA like figure. Risk of a lot of skepticism about the COVID vaccine, which opened up a lot of people's eyes now on abortion. I think this is where we can say fairly for both a lot of the pro life and the pro choice crowd. Arguably ten times more of a bigger flip flop that has happened. There were a lot of questions about RFK Jr. In the HHS role. The reason why is that he'll have jurisdiction specifically over Mifeprestone, which is the abortion drug of which there has been a change in Biden administration policy about prescriptions for it, and of which the pro life coalition has been pushing Donald Trump to, quote, unquote study the safety of it and to look at the drug and possibly hold it up, which of course would dramatically reduce the number of abortions in the United States. So we have a lot of the questioning the back and forth on this issue, including some of the past statements, statements that he's made. Let's take a listen.
- [54:16]
Tulsi Gabbard
I agree with President Trump that every abortion is a tragedy. I agree with him that we cannot be a moral nation if we have 1.2 million abortions a year. I agree with them that the states should control abortion. President Trump has told me that he wants to end late term abortions with.
- [54:38]
Krystal Ball
A life threatening bleeding. Bleeding from an incomplete miscarriage, goes to the ER and her doctor also determines that she needs an emergency abortion. But she's in a state where abortion is banned. You would agree also as an attorney that federal law protects her right to that emergency care, correct?
- [55:03]
Tulsi Gabbard
I don't know. I mean the answer to that is I don't know if this is.
- [55:08]
Krystal Ball
Well, let me ask you this as an attorney. Does it.
- [55:10]
Sagar Enjeti
Doesn't federal law preempt state law?
- [55:12]
Tulsi Gabbard
The federal constitution does sometimes not every federal law preempts state laws. It could be unconstitutional offense or we need to understand the safety of every drug and every other drug. And President Trump has made it clear to me that one of the things. He is not taking that position yet on Mife Pristone, a detailed position, but he's made it clear to me that he wants me to look at safety issues and I'll ask NIH FDA to do that.
- [55:48]
Krystal Ball
Thank you. But so to leave. So.
- [55:51]
Sagar Enjeti
So in other words, keeping it as.
- [55:52]
Krystal Ball
Is with Roe vs Wade having been overturned and leaving it up to the.
- [55:56]
Sagar Enjeti
States to determine if and when a woman can have an abortion.
- [56:00]
Tulsi Gabbard
No, I wouldn't leave it to the states.
- [56:02]
Krystal Ball
Right.
- [56:02]
Tulsi Gabbard
I would.
- [56:04]
Sagar Enjeti
You would say completely.
- [56:05]
Krystal Ball
It.
- [56:05]
Sagar Enjeti
It's up to the woman.
- [56:06]
Tulsi Gabbard
I believe we should leave it to the woman. We shouldn't have government involved.
- [56:10]
Krystal Ball
Even if it's full term.
- [56:13]
Tulsi Gabbard
Even if it's full term.
- [56:15]
Sagar Enjeti
So I think we can all agree.
- [56:16]
Krystal Ball
Him being there in the south eyes weren't passing. That was weird.
- [56:18]
Sagar Enjeti
That's a big.
- [56:19]
Krystal Ball
That was the last clip there was showing what he used to say about abortion now versus I mean said similar.
- [56:25]
Sagar Enjeti
Things on our show.
- [56:26]
Krystal Ball
Confirmation here. True. Yeah.
- [56:29]
Sagar Enjeti
Look, I think it is. That is the biggest hit against always has been. That's why Mike Lee. Not Mike Lee, Mike Pence has been campaigning very hard against RFK Jr. For being pro life. We've been talking. Sorry pro choice. James Lankford the person who was questioning him there, that was really important. He's the chair of the National Prayer Breakfast here in Washington. He is probably the most pro life member of the Congress.
- [56:54]
Krystal Ball
I didn't actually realize that.
- [56:55]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, he's from Oklahoma as it makes sense in terms of the big evangelical population. But there are a lot of people who fall into the Lankford category. It's still actually open. Question mark how some of them.
- [57:06]
Krystal Ball
Joni Ernst is another one who's very pro life.
- [57:09]
Sagar Enjeti
Well, we have a list if we want a six, can we put a six please? I'll just read off some of the names. These are the Republicans who are currently question marks on RFK Jr. We've got Mitch McConnell.
- [57:19]
Krystal Ball
We've got Bill Cassidy who's a polio survivor.
- [57:21]
Sagar Enjeti
That's right. You've got Bill Cassidy who's a doctor who actually he questioned him a little bit there. Senator Chuck Grassley who also questioned RFK junior Senator Jeremy Ernst. You have Senator Thom Tillis who now has come out as a lean. Yes. And then of course you have Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski who if I had to guess are probably going to be NOS on that.
- [57:40]
Krystal Ball
I would think so. Yeah. I think he'll probably lose those. And then what? He can lose one more or he can't lose or that's all he can lose.
- [57:47]
Sagar Enjeti
He can lose McConnell, Murkowski and Collins just like Pete Hegseth. But that's it. Because if he loses those three then JD Van can can cast the tie breaking vote. But there are big, there's still. I'd give him like a 65% chance of getting confirmed. I'm pretty sure. I mean look, the MAGA base right now is behind RFK 100% and Trump is whipping for him. JD is whipping for him. The online Maha army against a lot of like four of these people. You should just, I mean the enthusiasm there was crazy yesterday. RFK has got like a genuine constituency. We've been waiting, people have been waiting a long time for someone like him to actually be in power. So you would be surprised, I think, to see one of these Republicans turn, especially one who might be up for reelection. But if anyone could get away with. I mean that's like do we really believe Lindsey Graham is gonna vote against RFK Jr. This guy's like a toad in terms of his sucking up to Trump. You would really need these Murkowski and COLLINS People and McConnell who's never gonna run again for anything. They're unique for a reason. Cause they're really insulated from the political cost of all the rest of them. You really do need the GOP behind you to be able to win. So I think what I did take away is no Democrat's gonna vote for him. I don't think so, no.
- [59:00]
Krystal Ball
And Fetterman was a possibility, but afterwards he came out and was like, I don't know how anybody could vote for that dude after that.
- [59:06]
Sagar Enjeti
And he also voted against Hegseth. He's interesting guy. Talks a big game, goes to the Lake and Riley thing and all of that still votes against all of the Trump nominees. So it's like, who are like, what are we doing here?
- [59:17]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. Brain damage.
- [59:18]
Sagar Enjeti
Senator from whom? Jerusalem. Okay.
- [59:21]
Krystal Ball
One other thing I wanted to mention here because you were talking about the political pressure. Nicole Shanahan, who was RFK Jr. S running mate, who was a billionaire by dint of her marriages, she came out and said that she would use her billions to primary anyone on the Republican side who didn't vote for RFK Jr. And she specifically threatened, I don't think that this really has any particular impact, but she, she threatened Raphael Warnock of Georgia and said like, I gave you lots of money before and that's the only reason you won. Which I don't know if that's really. I mean, I know she did give money to his super PAC that supported him previously. But in terms of the Democratic context, a Nicole Shanahan backed primary challenge against a Democrat is not gonna get very far. And in a general election, there's gonna be tons of money going up against him anyway. But in the Republican context, that could be a real threat. And so this has become the norm of individual. Elon Musk did it before threatening with regard to nominees and with regard to the spending bill. Like, if you don't do what we want you to do, I'm going to fund a primary challenge against you. So these billionaires are also being used to enforce discipline within the Republican pro Trump coalition. So that. That's another piece of what's going on here. Just the last comment on the abortion piece. Cuz I do think that is important. Just so people know, in the wake of Roe versus Wade being overturned, actually aren't the numbers saga that the number of abortions have actually gone up?
- [60:52]
Sagar Enjeti
Yes, Max.
- [60:53]
Krystal Ball
And the reason primarily is because of mifepristone, which is used very early in pregnancy for an abortion. And even if you live in a state that's extremely restrictive, most people have the ability to get that somehow through the mail. And so there was a court Case that went all the way up to the Supreme Court, if I'm not mistaken, saying, oh, the FDA wrongly approved this and it's not really safe. And the court was like, we're not gonna go and second guess the fda, like, that's their job is to evaluate the safety and efficacy. There's some 40 around studies that indicate mifepristone is in fact safe to use in this manner. But this has been a primary goal. It was in Project 2025. It's been a primary conservative goal to get control of the FDA so that they can say, no, actually, we don't think it's safe. And this would be. This would have a massive, massive impact on women's reproductive rights. Huge.
- [61:54]
Sagar Enjeti
Oh, it's the biggest question mark on abortion.
- [61:56]
Jeremy Corbell
Yeah.
- [61:56]
Krystal Ball
I don't think any and no one on either side of the debate would deny that. That's why they're so laser focused on it and why it was so noteworthy and important that RFK Jr. In this hearing said, I will look at the safety of that and I will follow Trump's lead on that, which is a major goal of the pro life movement. So even though he has personally been pro choice, he's trying to reassure Republican senators that he will also set his sights on rolling back use of mifepr stone, which, like I said, will have a tremendous, in my view, very negative impact. If that is in fact right.
- [62:33]
Sagar Enjeti
It will have a big impact no matter what. And that's why that was one of the big Kamala campaign points there. Correctly, in my opinion, in terms of what the power of the federal government can be on this. Just very last thing I had to get this in here. Senator Michael Bennett, whenever he was railing against RFK Jr. Was like, did you really say that Lyme disease was genetically engineered in a lab as if it was some sort of conspiracy theory? By the way, I thought everyone knew this, but can we please put my tweet up there on the screen just so people can understand this. Lyme disease is probably a lab leak. And I'm explaining it to people very clearly here. If you're watching and you can see this. Lyme disease originated in Old Lyme, Connecticut in the 1970s, which just happens to be mere miles away from Plum Island. U.S. army bioweapons labor that was studying insect spreading bioweapons, specifically with ticks in the 1960s. Just so everyone knows, a lot of people actually, who've been suffering from Lyme disease through research of the tragedy and really of how decimated they are, find Themselves across books like Lab257 and others. But it really is sad because what's happened is that in the cold war, we had these literal Nazi scientists and others who were brought under from operation paperclip clip to study bioweapons that we could inflict on the Soviet union, specifically via insects, to decimate them, not kill them, but just cause chaos through this bacteria. This lyme bacteria is exceptionally rare. One of the dunks on the lab leak theory is like, oh, they found it in Otzi the Iceman. It's like, yes, it's traditional gain of function. You take a rare bacteria, you bring it to a lab, you try to weaponize it, you try to increase the infection. The infection, the vector, the way that it will cause disease. And, you know, there are millions of people now in America, specifically in New England, who suffer from lyme disease. There are multiple offshoots and others. It causes devastating consequences. I actually know somebody who's suffered lyme disease for years. It's really never been the same since then. So, yeah, it's really unfortunate. Lyme disease is probably a lab leak. Ebola 2014 was a lab leak, as we covered here on the show with Ryan Grim Covid was a lab leak. So we need to figure this stuff out and tying it to RFK Jr. That's the one thing at least I hope that we cut. Let's cut all those. We need to cut that nih gain of function budget to zero, and we need to do some actual transparency on all this crap that we've been funding and hopefully shut a lot of these labs down, who clearly don't have safety protocols or anything. So it's really sad because a lot of line people reached out to me saying, thank you, you know, for highlighting this, because, you know, we've been suffering now for so long, and there's still, you know, the insurance companies fight them on lyme disease. The doctors don't believe a lot of the people who suffer of lyme disease, One of the most devastating conditions that's out there.
- [65:24]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, it's really strange. Very strange symptoms, too.
- [65:26]
Sagar Enjeti
That's what I mean. So then they just don't want to do anything for it. You're on your own.
- [65:29]
Krystal Ball
Sager did get community noted on this. No, they took it off. They took it off? Oh, they took it off. I was gonna say I looked at. I mean, it's not conclusively proven by the. It's not a hundred percent coincidence.
- [65:39]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, exactly.
- [65:39]
Krystal Ball
It's right there. So I'll give him that one it's just like Wuhan the drugs turning the kids trans. Not gonna give you that one.
- [65:47]
Sagar Enjeti
Chemicals.
- [65:48]
Krystal Ball
Hiv. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, chemicals.
- [65:50]
Sagar Enjeti
Turn what you think birth control chemicals in our water had zero effect.
- [65:53]
Krystal Ball
The zero effect. Hiv not causing aids. Not gonna give him that one either. So yeah, there was a lot there going on.
- [66:01]
Sagar Enjeti
Look, there's a lot of shit in our water. Nobody even knows what the hell it is. Reverse osmosis, folks. If you can afford it, you should do it. Highly recommend. All right, let's get to Tulsi Gabbard.
- [66:09]
Jeremy Corbell
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Sagar Enjeti
It it out.
- [67:01]
Jeremy Corbell
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- [67:12]
Sagar Enjeti
Clorox Scentiva smells like lavender.
- [67:18]
Krystal Ball
Cleans like Clorox.
- [67:21]
Sagar Enjeti
And feels like.
- [67:23]
Krystal Ball
Hmm, all right, that could go on for a while. Experience the long lasting freshness of Clorox Scentiva. Now available in Clorox Scentiva lavender scented bleach use as directed.
- [67:42]
Sagar Enjeti
At the same time. Speaking of confirmation, we've got a lot of news concerning Tulsi Gabbard who is up today for her confirmation hearing. And we're getting a taste of what some of the Republican attack against her will be. Let's go ahead and put this up there on the screen. Quote, At Gabbard's confirmation hearing, Edward Snowden may loom large. So a lot of very pro national security state Republicans have been very upset with, quote, Tulsi Gabbard's past support for Edward Snowden. While in Congress, Gabbard introduced legislation that would have offered a bipartisan whistleblower protections for people like Snowden accused of violating the Espionage Act. In fact, she actually co sponsored that legislation with Matt Gaetz that called on the charges against Snowden to be Dropped. Now, since she will be the dni, there are a lot of questions whether she is, according to them, is somebody who would compromise national security. So, for example, just a taste. Susan Collins said Mrs. Snowden's disclosures have jeopardized all the people who are helping us. They say one of my greatest concerns is how she views Edward Snowden in the light of the resolution that she co authored with Matt Gaetz calling all criminal charges against him, which were serious and involved high class formation, to be dropped. So that is the taste. But Susan Collins is just one of many people who share these views. For example, Senator Tom Cotton, who is the chairman of the Intelligence Committee, has called Snowden a traitor. You continue on down the line, you've got people like Mitch McConnell, you've got James Lankford, who said that he was, quote, spoken with Gabbard about Snowden, and he said that their Office of the Director of National Intelligence has a responsibility to make sure that we don't have our secrets leaked out. So this is in addition, this Snowden thing to the section 702about face that she has already made on FISA and on spying. So I think he said it. You know, they always attack you for the worst thing.
- [69:38]
Krystal Ball
And that's like the only good reasons to put Tulsi in here. And she's like, they're like, like forcing her to change. I mean, and listen, she has her own will. She's making her own decisions here as well. But, yeah, that report for the New York Times says that she's expected to distance herself and say that she believes Mr. Snowden's disclosures hurt the intelligence community and national security. We have always said, and Glenn Greenwood always makes this point, if what Snowden revealed had truly hurt national security or compromised our soldiers or intel assets in the field, we would all know about it. They would have screamed that to the high heavens a million times. They've never provided any evidence of that. Something that Tulsi Gabbard knows and has no doubt said and pointed out herself. But now, in an attempt to appease the hawks on the Republican side, she's going to do this about face and be like, oh, Snowden so bad, actually. And 702, we got that all cleaned up, no worries whatsoever. So that's where we are with her. And there was one Senate aide who told the Washington Post, they're not even sure she makes it on a committee. So I don't know if that's. I don't know if that's true. I don't know if that's what's gonna happen. But I do think that her confirmation. Her confirmation is certainly the most imperiled and the most in danger of failing because you will definitely have no Democrats vote for her whatsoever. Fetterman certainly wouldn't be. You know, he's the one who would be most likely to cross over. And he's like a belligerent or an insane hawk. So he's not going to be down with her either.
- [71:08]
Sagar Enjeti
Well, I've got the list in front of me. You've got Tom Cotton, so that's probably a no. Maybe. I don't know.
- [71:14]
Krystal Ball
You know, Cotton said something that was kind of open to her. He was like, oh, well, we have our disagreements, but, you know, I don't know. He said something that was like a little bit conciliatory towards her.
- [71:24]
Sagar Enjeti
So I'm not sure he said, I support her. Okay. Last night, he was on Fox News. I support her lead. I look forward to working with her. Okay, so that's good. She got the chairman. You've got James Reese from Idaho. That's. He can be a weirdo. Susan Collins, That's. She's already probably a no. John Cornyn, total national security State hawk. Jerry Moran, I don't know much about him. Lankford, he's the guy who already got her to flip on 702. So he'll probably vote for her. Mike Rounds, same thing. He's wild card. Todd Young, also wild card. And Ted Butt will probably vote for her.
- [71:57]
Krystal Ball
Well, and this is to vote her out of committee. You're looking at committee. And so if every Democrat votes against her, they would need, what, one more Republican? Yeah, but to join the Democrats to vote on a committee, can you still.
- [72:07]
Sagar Enjeti
Get a committee, a floor vote with an unfavorable report out of committee? I think you can.
- [72:12]
Krystal Ball
I'm not sure.
- [72:14]
Sagar Enjeti
It's.
- [72:14]
Krystal Ball
I thought they had trying. I thought they had to go through the committee first before you could bring them to the floor.
- [72:19]
Sagar Enjeti
They testified before the committee. I could be wrong, but it's like report. So sometimes, like a piece of legislation will be unfavorably voted out of committee, but it'll still be brought. This is parliamentary nonsense that I have no idea about, so please keep that in mind. But, yeah, that's where we are right now with Tulsi Gabbard. If you want a taste again of the campaign against her, you've got the Wall Street Journal editorial board, the voice of Mitch McConnell. Let's put this up there on the screen. Tulsi Gabbard. Edward Snowden is intelligence. Does the US really want a Director of National Intelligence who excuses mass leaking of secrets? So you can see there they mentioned specifically Senator Tom Cotton's past past reservations about her. And they also talk about, quote, unquote, the damage that Snowden had done as a result of the leaks. But it's parodying a lot of the national security state concerns against her. So I think you're gonna get a real taste of what happened against RFK Jr. So with the Democrats, it's gonna be all Assad, all the time. It's all gonna be like, why did you meet with Assad? You know, all this 2013 rehashed about that. Apparently there's some story questions about her.
- [73:24]
Krystal Ball
Cult connection has been a subject recently as well.
- [73:27]
Sagar Enjeti
There's been a lot of. A lot of chatter in Washington about Hezbollah. I'm not really quite sure yet what it's about. They say a story is coming about some of her alleged connections to Hezbollah. I believe it when I see it. I guess for what that is, then Snowden come for Republicans see it. Exactly. That's why the story's being planted. 702. So those are the top four things. But, yeah, I would say she's the only one who I'm giving like a 50% shot. She's got the lowest chance, in my opinion. That doesn't mean I still think she won't get confirmed. I think she probably will because Trump and Trump and JD have really made it. You know, I mean, look, with RFK and with Tulsi and Hegseth, they have rammed these people through committee and they have made it like a real zero in against the folks. But you only need four, and you've got three wild cards already, so you really only need one. One person to flip who is like a traditional person.
- [74:18]
Krystal Ball
McConnell, Murkowski, Collins would vote against her, almost certainly. Pretty sure. So then you can only lose one more. And with the number of national security hawks that are on the Republican side, yeah, it's definitely perilous. According to Chad GPT, yes, you are correct. Regardless of the committee's vote, the nomination can proceed to the full Senate for consideration. The Senate Majority Leader schedules the nomination for debate and a final confirmation. So traditionally it has to go from the committee and they have to, you know, issue a positive referral, but it's not absolutely required. So that's where that stands.
- [74:51]
Sagar Enjeti
Yep. There you go.
- [74:53]
Jeremy Corbell
Hello, iheart listener. We have a confession to make. Both Iheart and this commercial you're listening to right now would probably sound A heck of a lot better on the new Roku Pro Series tv. It's got side firing speakers that fill your room with sound, Dolby Atmos audio that puts you right in the middle of the entertainment and the ability to pair seamlessly with your home theater sound systems that already have surround sound and booming bass. If all that sounds too good to be true, it'll sound even better on the new Roku Pro series. Your hearing isn't better. Your TV is. @ Ameca Insurance, we know it's more than just a car. It's the two door coupe that was there for your first drive. That the hatchback that took you cross country and back and the minivan that tackles the weekly carpool for the cars you couldn't live without. Trust Ameca Auto Insurance. Ameca Empathy is our best policy.
- [75:56]
Sagar Enjeti
Clorox Sentiva smells like lavender.
- [76:01]
Krystal Ball
Cleans like Clorox.
- [76:04]
Sagar Enjeti
And feels like.
- [76:12]
Krystal Ball
Alright, that could go on for a while. Experience the long lasting freshness of Clorox Scentiva. Now available in Clorox Scentiva lavender scented bleach. Use as directed.
- [76:25]
Sagar Enjeti
Let's get to the Medicare section. Medicaid. Sorry, I'm like RFK Junior. I don't know the difference.
- [76:31]
Krystal Ball
I'm not voting for HHS secretary either, to be honest.
- [76:34]
Sagar Enjeti
The difference is honestly kind of difficult to understand sometimes. Like Medicaid in terms of the individual programs, not the senior care.
- [76:42]
Krystal Ball
Oh, like yeah, but you're talking about the way the funding works and the programs themselves.
- [76:47]
Sagar Enjeti
Sometimes I'm like, well, cause you know, there's provisions under Medicare that sometimes overlap with Medicaid. Like in terms of the. There's like Medicare Advantage, but then there's Medicaid plans for people who are born under Medicaid. But sometimes you can be covered by Medicare too. I was trying to research into it. It's actually like for me to wrap my head around it, I'm like, this is a behemoth, man.
- [77:07]
Krystal Ball
I feel confident if you were up for hhs, that's fair.
- [77:10]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, that's fair.
- [77:10]
Krystal Ball
You do that homework and you would be ready to know the difference quite clearly.
- [77:14]
Sagar Enjeti
I'm just saying as a layman, you know, just entering into this, I was like, huh? You know, it's actually kind of complicated. I had no, no idea.
- [77:21]
Krystal Ball
All right, let's get to the funding freeze or whatever the hell has been going on, which by the way, continues to be a question. So Ryan and Emily did a great job covering this with Jeff Stein, who was all over the case when they issued this original memo. Very broadly Wording saying freeze all federal funding except for things that go directly to individuals. And they named specifically Social Security and Medicare, but not Medicaid. And as I said before, the wording was very broad. So they said freeze all federal funding effectively so we can assess whether or not these different programs match, you know, meet the standards as laid out by Trump's various executive orders against green energy and DEI and whatever else he issued. So, so yesterday, after creating a whole disaster and the Medicaid payment portals being shut down and domestic violence shelters and addiction programs and Meals on Wheels and Head Start and all these programs calling their senators and their representatives freaking out like, what is going on? They decided to completely rescind that memo. So let's put B1 up on the screen. This is the memo rescinding the original memo. However, then the White House press secretary came out and said, well, the first memo is rescinded. However, the funding freeze still applies for the programs that are in, you know, in contradiction of President Trump's executive orders. So continued confusion, effectively. Jeff Stein summed it up. We can put this up on the screen as how this timeline all went down. This is B2. He says, Do I have this right? What am I missing? Sincere question from the White House. On Monday, OMB memo will implement full federal pause on grants including but not limited to. And that was the language from the original memo here, including but not limited to those that violate Trump executive orders on dei, clean energy, trans related programs. Then on Tuesday, White House issues Q and A saying the pause only applies to dollars that violate Trump executive orders. The White House press secretary says it's a limited free that will not affect individuals benefits but major disruptions at Medicaid, housing assistance and elsewhere. Wednesday, the OMB Office of Management of Budget formally rescinds the Monday memo. White House press secretary says on Twitter that the freeze on spending that violates executive orders remains in effect. We can put up that statement from Caroline Levitt. She says this is not a rescission of the federal funding freeze. It is simply a rescission of the OMB memo. That's confusing. Confusing to me at least. Why? To end any confusion created by the court's injection, the President's executive orders on federal funding remain in full force and effect and will be rigorously implemented. Put B5 guys, skip ahead to B5. The judge what was just ruled. So this has already gone to two judges at this point. The first one said this is not going in effect. We're putting an immediate freeze on this. You know, on the freeze going into effect. In fact, another judge weighed in yesterday and said they will grant the restraining order, saying the withdrawal of the hugely ambiguous OMB order is only a distinction without indifference based on comments by the president's press secretary. So it is still a bit of a jumble and very confusing and continues to be put on pause by, you know, at this point, multiple judges who have taken a look at this. And Sagra. This is some major Trump 2017 vibes. This is major Trump 2017 vibes.
- [80:59]
Sagar Enjeti
There's a portion of our audience which is shocking. Was actually either in high school or younger whenever Trump was first president. So if you all wanna know what covering the first administration was like, this is what it was. It was like orders, and then they were rescinded and people didn't know what was happening. And then there was chaos and then there was a judge. And now we're back to, well, this is still in effect. Except it's not.
- [81:20]
Krystal Ball
But it's also not in effect.
- [81:21]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, welcome to Donald Trump, America. This is what it's always like. Hope you're all enjoying the next.
- [81:27]
Krystal Ball
Producer Max says he was 16 when all of this was going on last time. So fair enough.
- [81:31]
Sagar Enjeti
I watched on the show, was 16 now. I mean, I've met people who are like 22 who watch the show. So I'm like, hold on a second. I was like, so how old are you when Trump was. They're like, one of my often questions is, so you were born after 9? 11. That's always a crazy one. And then it's like, do you remember anything about Obama? And they're like, no, not really. I wasn't really paying attention. So this is the Trump era. That's the thing that they most remember, which is kind of crazy. But the point is that this is a lot what it was like. This is also what I would say is what really caused him to become more unpopular the first time around. Look, I mean, governance is an art. It's difficult. It's one of those things which is maddening with bureaucracy. And it's one of the reasons why I always tell people we were gonna cover buyouts. I mean, maybe we can mention some of this in here, but look, for all the talk of run the government like a business, like, what do we learn from this air traffic control thing? It's not a business, it's a life and death stake sometimes.
- [82:30]
Krystal Ball
Like if you flash the workforce at Twitter and sometimes your DMs crash, which.
- [82:35]
Sagar Enjeti
Happens to me all the time. Who gives a shit?
- [82:37]
Krystal Ball
Nobody dies.
- [82:38]
Sagar Enjeti
No one Cares, right? Or even the stock goes down. Let's say you have a company, a stock goes down and employees lose their job. Tragic. Not downplayed. Playing it not the same as a plane crash. And this is what I always point to, where the byzantine nature of the United States government and specifically of the welfare state is such, where it is both maddening, ineffective, bureaucratic, stupid, bloated, overpriced, et cetera, and is one of the most beloved programs in the entire United States. So don't screw with it. This is one of the main lessons that Obama learned in 09 with Obamacare and all that is. I remember being some of those Tea Party protests. Those are some of my first acts of journalism being like, hey, why are you all out here? And they're like hands off my Medicaid, hands off my Medicare. And we were like, well you know, it doesn't, but it didn't matter. Like the idea that you were even screwing with old people's healthcare, that is will send people into a rage. Yeah, same here. You don't screw with Medicaid. And watching the hearing had no clue how many babies are born in this country literally under medicine. 40%. That's nuts. Of all of the babies in the United States were being born under the Medicaid program. Not to mention the number of people, disability, et cetera, who are affected by this. All of the hospitals and the doctors. Watch our RFK debate. Our healthcare system is screwed up enough as it is. Having to worry about reimbursement of care or all of that while that's going on is a nightmare. So it was a one day thing, but it's a taste of if you screw this type of stuff up, you really only get one shot.
- [84:12]
Krystal Ball
I'm not sure it was a one day thing because at least according to Jeff Stein's reporting, there continue to be a lot of local programs funded by federal grants.
- [84:21]
Sagar Enjeti
Well, I'm talking about Medicaid.
- [84:22]
Krystal Ball
Oh the Medicaid, Yeah. So all the Medicaid portals were shut down in all 50 states. Those are backup. But there continue to be, I mean questions about what the state of affairs even is right now, what the White House actually wants people to be doing or not doing within all of these federal agencies. What the press secretary said in her very first briefing was like, well if you have a question, just like Russ votes line is open. It was not even confirmed at OMB by the way. And I think part of the reason they decided to rescind this first memo was because he is up. I believe Tomorrow his hearings start. And I'm sure this was throwing his potential confirmation into a little bit of chaos as well. Just because, listen, it doesn't matter if you're a Republican or a Democrat. Like, every single senator and representative was fielding calls from the Head Start program, the Meals on Wheels program, the domestic violence program, like all the addiction recovery programs, all sorts of veterans, homelessness. All of these programs say, what the hell is going on? Are we gonna get our funding or not? If not, we're gonna have to lay people off. We can't open our doors, the kids can't come to class, et cetera, et cetera. So, truly, both parties were quite concerned about what was going on here, regardless of what they were saying publicly. Now, apparently, as best we know, the backstory here is that. And again, this is very Trump 2017, the memo was written. Stephen Miller sort of directed that this memo be written. Russ Vogt writes the memoir and puts it out, but without going through any sort of, like, review process to recognize the fact that, oh, your language in here very clearly indicates all federal grant funding is frozen. Not just like, whatever trans or DEI or whatever stuff they're not happy about. By the way, the $50 million Gaza condom thing was total and complete bullshit and nonsense. Just so you know, as an aside, but to your point, Sagar, if we could now put before up on the screen, because this kind of gets to what you're talking about. So if you ask people, should you cut spending? Does the federal government spend too much? Is it inefficient? They'll be like, yes. But then when you're like, okay, well, what should they cut? Should they spend more on Social Security or less? They're like, definitely spend more. What about education? Definitely spend more. What about assistance to the poor? Definitely spend more. Medicare? Yes. Medicaid? Yes. Border security is where you get to 50, 50 military. They're like, we're probably spending. Spending plenty there. We're good there. And federal law enforcement, same thing. But by and large, if you go down the list of budget items when it comes to these programs, they are very popular. So Republicans oftentimes run into this where in theory, people are like, yes, the government is spending too much. But then when it actually comes down to these social safety net programs, they do not want to further strip our already threadbare safety net even further. And typically, the defense budget only ever goes up, so that's not on the table politically, even though actually the American people would probably be most open to cuts there. One other thing I wanted to get to here is we can put B6 up on the screen. So even though this was chaotic and continues to be chaotic and unclear and not done in an effective way, it's not like it was done haphazardly. The Huffington Post was able to actually get their hands on some internal documents that prove that this was a plan to provoke this constitutional challenge, to try to directly challenge the, what's it called, the Impoundment control Act of 1974, which says that effectively Congress has the power of the purse. If they pass funding, then the executive is obligated to spend it. This was a post Watergate reform. The Nixon administration didn't want to spend money that was appropriated by Congress on something. I can't remember exactly what. And so this was put into place to codify into law. No, if the Congress appropriates the money, we have the power of the purpose. You as the executive branch don't get to say like, well, I don't like that program, so I'm not going to spend money on that particular thing. Except for rare instances like if there's some new technological gain that creates efficiencies, then there might be a loophole there. But very, very limited. As part of Project 2025 and something that Jeff Stein has been telling us about and we've been reporting on here. And it's also part of the plan with doge. They want to challenge that and basically be able to say that Congress's appropriations are just a basically suggestion. And then the executive branch gets to be like, we like that, we don't like that and have ma. I mean this would be. This would almost be rendering Congress completely irrelevant effectively and making it so that the executive branch really has near monarchical powers to do everything that they want. So that was revealed in terms of these internal documents, which many people have been speculating about, but it's sort of confirmed by haven't imposed. Last thing I'll say I'll get your reaction to this, Sagar, is Lever News had a good report about just looking at, okay, well, how might the Supreme Court rule on such a question? This is a very conservative Supreme Court. A number of these individuals were put on the bench by Donald Trump. So there's certainly possibility that even though this has never been the understanding and it's pretty clear in the Constitution, power of the purse with Congress, et cetera, there is certainly a possibility that they would side with the Trump White House on this. But let's put B7 up on the screen. This could end up being relevant. Apparently John Roberts Weighed in back in a 1985 communique. Weighed in on a question. This is classic David Sirota to be able to find this, by the way, weighed in on this very question with regard to whether the executive branch can just say, no, we don't wanna do that. Sorry, Congress, we're not following the law that you passed. He said that no area seems more clearly the province of Congress than the power of the purse. And discouraged going in the direction of questioning that whatsoever. So that could potentially become relevant. I think it's almost certainly that the almost certain that this will end up at some point at the Supreme Court.
- [90:46]
Sagar Enjeti
Not only that, Justice Gorsuch is much more libertarian, much more skeptical of executive power and justice to Barrett, also very much in that camp. So there's big ideological divides. I'd be curious to see. Kavanaugh's usually more of a big state power guy, like executive branch.
- [91:03]
Krystal Ball
They've definitely got Thomas, Thomas, Alito, Kavanaugh.
- [91:07]
Sagar Enjeti
Likely to go on the side of the Trump administration. But yeah, you could conceivably see a 6, 3 on something like this. Yeah, I'd be curious to see how it breaks down. I asked around and they told me the same thing. They're like, Kavanaugh or they said Gorsuch, Coney, Barrett are both big question marks. A lot of it, remember, comes back to implementation as well. This chaos does not help your case, because that's something that they've written about often in Supreme Court opinions, is that you have to follow the letter of the law in the process. That's what specifically came back to screw them on the Census back in 2018, when Justice Roberts ruled against the Trump administration. So he's got a long history of not buying some of this stuff going all the way back to Obamacare and others. There's like, novel conservative legal theories. So they really could have issues before the court with this one. It's all about testing the limits of power. This was very basically laid out by a lot of people incoming in the Trump administration. They wanna be able to do as much as they possibly can, and they're trying to get it done early to figure out what they actually can do going forward.
- [92:06]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, yeah, no, that's right. And I will say Democrats have been utterly pathetic in response, responding to Trump this time, and are generally utterly pathetic and disappointing, et cetera. But it is also true that it is easier to like, dismantle, cut and destroy than it is to, like, build new programs. So, you know, I mean, that's what they're with this with the buyouts that we mentioned, which aren't really buy whatever, put that semantic difference aside. But, you know, they're trying to cut some 10%, kind of randomly broad swath of the federal government. All of those, you know, all of those attempts to, they want to, they've talked about, they want to demoralize the entire federal workforce. They want to use these sorts of truly unprecedented, extraordinary powers to just, you know, take a hatchet to all sorts of things within the federal government. So, yeah, the wrecking ball has arrived and they're doing everything that they possibly can with it.
- [93:04]
Sagar Enjeti
Yep, that makes sense. All right, let's get to Jeremy Corbell standing by nearby UFOs.
- [93:10]
Jeremy Corbell
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- [94:13]
Sagar Enjeti
Clorox Sentiva smells like lavender.
- [94:18]
Krystal Ball
Cleans like Clorox.
- [94:22]
Sagar Enjeti
And feels like.
- [94:30]
Krystal Ball
All right, that could go on for a while. Experience the long lasting freshness of Clorox Scentiva. Now available in Clorox Scentiva lavender scented bleach. Use as directed.
- [94:42]
Sagar Enjeti
Joining us now is my friend Jeremy Corbell to react to some of the news around the New Jersey drones. It's great to see you, sir. Thank you for joining us.
- [94:49]
Unknown Speaker
Good to see you.
- [94:50]
Sagar Enjeti
Absolutely. Jeremy, we want your reaction here to the White House coming out with a statement on the New Jersey drone phenomenon. Let's take a listen and we're gonna get your reaction.
- [94:58]
Krystal Ball
And before I turn to questions, I do have news directly from the President of the United States that was just shared with me in the Oval Office. From President Trump directly, an update on the New Jersey drones. After research and study, the drones that were flying over New Jersey in large numbers were authorized to be flown by the FAA for research and various other reasons. Many of these drones were also hobby, recreational and private individuals that enjoy flying drones. In meantime, in time it got worse due to curiosity. This was not the enemy.
- [95:35]
Sagar Enjeti
A lot going on there, Jeremy. So in your expert opinion, what do you make of this?
- [95:39]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, I mean the explanation is fundamentally nonsensical. I think we all had high hopes for a new era of transparency. Look for me on the UAP topic, but also just on a bunch of topics, we're not seeing it in that statement. Let me just give you a little breakdown here. The FAA would not approve research flights without communication with facility heads. And same with military bases. You know, did the FAA authorize the ones that buzzed Langley 17 nights in a row? Did they authorize the untrackable drones that infiltrated three US and UK air bases and that was going on for weeks? Did the FAA authorize flight restrictions.
- [96:27]
Tulsi Gabbard
If.
- [96:27]
Unknown Speaker
They had originally authorized these drones? It's absolutely nonsensical. And I'll tell you, I get reports from people that are actually guarding these critical infrastructure sites what they're seeing through their FLIR and through their thermal. It's not just traditional drones. And so this is an issue of transparency. We had high hopes. We're not getting it. Remember, these drones were not affected by anti drone technology.
- [96:54]
Sagar Enjeti
Yes.
- [96:55]
Unknown Speaker
So these just weren't approved tests. It's just a blatant, flat out lie.
- [96:59]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, I mean research and various other reasons like listen, I'm a skeptic personally so I would be open to an explanation that's like research and here's exactly what's going on and here's why it's confusing to people and here's why the drone detection technology disorders and why the flight space wasn't authorized, blah blah blah. But I don't think anyone skeptic, not skeptic, whatever your thoughts are about this situation is going to be satisfied with research and various other reasons.
- [97:27]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah. And look, this is not necessarily something that we have to be skeptical about where they come from. This is just a matter of fact that we have unidentified craft that are loitering over sensitive military and nuclear installations and also power stations. So this is something that we should address face on and we should be honest about it. It's just that the answer they came up with is absolutely nonsensical. And that's the problem.
- [97:56]
Sagar Enjeti
Right. Especially when you consider all of the authorities involved, the military bases. And that's what I want to talk to you about here. Jeremy, can you put this answer in the context of all of these other UAP incidents that we have seen over military bases. And then the subsequent explanation somewhat month and a half later, that vague, you know, oh, it was research, it was authorized. Does this fit with the pattern from the US Government?
- [98:20]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, it does. And this is something back in 2019 when we had 10 Navy warships over 100 mile radius swarmed by over 100 unidentifieds. And that's where George Knapp and I provided so many different types of footage showing that this is an issue everybody on the ships we've spoken with, that we've brought forward. This is something where you have these incursions and this has been going on for a long time. You know, your history, you guys, you know, the shutdown of nuclear base, shutdowns of airports. We're not getting truthful answers. And that's what we were all hoping for. Again, this answer is just so nonsensical, it's almost comical if it wasn't a serious issue, you know.
- [99:01]
Sagar Enjeti
Right.
- [99:02]
Krystal Ball
What are some of the ongoing transparency issues that you're hoping are going to be resolved ultimately under this administration, Jerry? Jeremy?
- [99:08]
Unknown Speaker
Well, you know that I'm obsessed with the UFO and UAP issue, so I'd like that to be resolved. We tried to do that in Congress a number of times. You know, I think the American public deserves, or not even deserves it is our right to have transparency within government. And we're just seeing, I hope we're not, but it appears we're just seeing the kind of same status quo as things unfold. A lot of promises are made. Remember back in the day, the Clintons tried to get this information out. John Podesta tried to get this information out. Ground truth on what UAP UFOs are, what they represent to humanity. And it's just, we're not seeing that right now. That's a fact.
- [99:46]
Sagar Enjeti
Jeremy, could you also give us your reaction? There's been some more whistleblowers and others that have come out, you know, government psionics and others. I'm just curious for your take on the matter and how that fits in the broader scheme of whistleblowers coming forward, trying to give information to Congress and to the government. And then at the very same time, we have the White House here, here with a traditional obviously BS explanation about the New Jersey drones. Right.
- [100:10]
Unknown Speaker
And so that's what we're seeing. What we're seeing is we're not going to get the answers through the traditional means. We were hoping, unfortunately, you know, through Senate, through the House, just through the White House. In general, we're not going to get those answers. So how are we? It's going to be on journalism and that's okay. That's what we're all doing is trying to get to the bottom and core truth on all of this. So I'm very hopeful for journalism right now. A lot of people are throwing down, A lot of people are getting involved with this issue. So we have to do good journalism no matter what the White House does.
- [100:44]
Sagar Enjeti
Absolutely. So we'll end it there. Jeremy, thank you so much. And listen, Jeremy, me, us, we tried to warn you. We could do it the easy way, but catastrophic is the way that you guys want to go, so be it, right? I mean, we see that. Yeah. We've tried to give them the option of coming forward, of disclosure. They are leaving it to the whistleblower and the eyewitnesses and other staff to come forward and to force their hand. If that's the way they want to play it, fine. We can continue to fight if we need to. Thank you very much, sir. We appreciate you.
- [101:11]
Unknown Speaker
Thank you.
- [101:12]
Jeremy Corbell
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Tulsi Gabbard
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Jeremy Corbell
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- [102:15]
Sagar Enjeti
Clorox Santiva smells like lavender.
- [102:20]
Krystal Ball
Cleans like.
- [102:21]
Sagar Enjeti
Clorox and feels like.
- [102:32]
Krystal Ball
Alright. That could go on for a while. Experience the long lasting freshness of Clorox Scentiva. Now available in Clorox Scentiva Lavender scented bleach use as directed. Very fortunate to be joined this morning by Peter Beinart. He is editor at large of Jewish Currents. He is author of Beinart Notebook on Substack and also author of a brand new book that we can put up on the screen. Being Jewish after the destruction of a reckoning. Great to See you, Peter.
- [103:01]
Peter Beinart
Thanks a lot.
- [103:03]
Krystal Ball
So my typical first question is what prompted the writing of the book? But I think that much is pretty obvious. But maybe you could start off by talking a little bit about what this period has been like, the post October 7th period has been like specifically for you and for your relationship with the Jewish community.
- [103:21]
Peter Beinart
So one of the central metaphors in Jewish tradition is of a family, kind of imagined extended family. We even use the term, you know, B'nai Yisrael, the children of Israel, to describe all of us, even though Israel is the name that was given to Jacob after he wrestles with the angel in the book of Genesis. And so there's something very. And it's also a family that has imagined family that has been through a lot of trauma and then experienced another tremendous level of trauma on October 7, which was really, say, for many of us, one of the worst days of our lives. In those moments, what families want is solidarity and support. But the tragedy to me is that the way in which the organized American Jewish community, Israeli government, asks for that solidarity is unconditional support for the brutal oppression of Palestinians and now the destruction of Gaza. So for me, I think that the emotions that led me to write this book were this struggle to show that I do feel a sense of solidarity and love for people that and a tradition that is at the center of my life. And yet something has gone profoundly wrong when we take that tradition and that sense of obligation to one another, and it becomes an excuse for doing just the most horrifying things to another group of people.
- [104:39]
Krystal Ball
So you talk about how the Jewish community needs a new story, talk a little bit about what the current story is and what are the problems with that current story and what a new story that may better serve not just the Jewish community, but the world at large, what that might look like.
- [104:56]
Peter Beinart
I think Jewish public discourse tends to be dominated by a narrative of Jews as kind of history's permanent virtuous victims. The truth is, the Jewish sacred texts actually tell a much more complicated story than that. But that becomes the one, I think, that is often in the kind of folk. The folk kind of narrative that exists. And then. So you hear this even in the description of October 7th. Right. To be clear, October 7th was a horrifying act of violence, including against many, many Israeli civilians. But it gets called a pogrom. So what happens then is you are linking this to violence against Jews in the Russian Empire in the late 19th and early 20th century, as if basically the Jewish condition is the same because they're always going to be these vicious anti Semites who are going to try to kill Jews wherever they are. Right. Or people say it's the worst killing of Jews since the Holocaust. Right. But the truth is the conditions that exist for Palestinians, and particularly Palestinians in Gaza, are nothing like the conditions that exist in the Russian empire in the early 20th century or. Or during the Nazi period. Because you can't understand European anti Semitism and violence against Jews without understanding Jews as a legally subordinated group of people. But in Israel, Palestine, it's the reverse. Jews have legal supremacy. It's Palestinians who are legally subordinate, who live without basic rights. And if you want to understand Palestinian violence and you want to make sure that it doesn't happen again, that everybody is safer, you have to face that. That reality of the oppression that Palestinians exist for Palestinians not to justify, God forbid what happens on October 7, but to understand the conditions so you can ensure that doesn't happen again, which means responding to the desire of Palestinians to be free.
- [106:37]
Krystal Ball
You have a quote in here. You say, treating a state as a God is a very frightening endeavor. It confers upon mortals a level of veneration that we do not deserve and will always abuse. Leibowitz called it the essence sense of fascism. How did support for the state of Israel, not just broadly the state of Israel existing, but even the specific policies effectuated by an extremely far right, I would say fascist government under Bibi Netanyahu. How did that get tied up so much with Judaism? To the extent that the ADL and other groups, the definition that the US Government is working with now, will say that if you criticize this state, you are actually yourself anti Semitic.
- [107:24]
Peter Beinart
You know, I don't think I really. I don't think I know the answer to that question, but I think it's actually a global thing that's happening now. When I look at the way some white evangelical Christians in Trump talk about the United States, it seems to be almost a parallel in which in Trump's America, it's in Trump's support. It seems to me if you don't have an American passport, if you don't have the right documentation, you are worthless. Your life is meaningless. The worship, the state is all that matters. And whether you have citizen anything. I mean, I'm not an expert on Christianity, but my understanding is that Christianity has a message about the universal dignity of all human beings, irrespective of what passport you have. Right. And I think something parallel has happened in much of the organized American Jewish community in which Judaism's message of the universal dignity of all human beings. Because Torah does not start with a story of Jews. The first, according to Jewish tradition, Adam, Eve, Noah, the first characters in Torah are not Jews. They're universal human beings, and they are symbols of the infinite value of all human life. And yet what happens when we talk about Israel and Gaza is that the first thing that's demanded is that people accept Israel's right to exist. Jewish tradition does not think in terms of states having rights to exist. It thinks in terms of human beings having rights to exist. States are mere instruments for the protection of human life. And if they do a really terrible job of protecting the lives of the people under their control, they should be reimagined, recreated, and yet instead, it's inverted. So the lives of the children of Gaza and the other people of Gaza are considered not to be precious. But the right of the existence of Israel as a Jewish state with a certain political system is considered sacrosanct. And to me, that's idolatry.
- [109:04]
Krystal Ball
It's funny you make that connection, because I was thinking about that same connection too, in the context of the freakout over what the bishop had to say about mercy for migrants, mercy for LGBTQ people, and how there was such a vociferous reaction against that from the right. You know, obviously the president was upset and JD Vance was tweeting about it, and, you know, it was a subject of primetime programming on Fox News, et cetera. Even though, listen, I'm also not a Christian, but I do have reading comprehension skills and I have a basic understanding of Christianity. And I know that, you know, humanity for the foreigner is kind of a key theme throughout the whole thing. Even the Old Testament, New Testament, Jesus Christ, like, whoever you wanna look at that was. That is a key message. And I think Tim Alberta has done. He. He's, I think, probably done the best job writing about this connection.
- [109:56]
Sagar Enjeti
Yes.
- [109:56]
Krystal Ball
But I really. It did actually help me to understand also the societal process that has gone in on within the state of Israel. And I think, you know, more broadly, with many exceptions, but more broadly, within the stridently, you know, Zionist Jewish community that has led to this place where the state itself is sacrosanct and that that is put above even, you know, the religious texts that are supposed to be so central, you know, that. That really did kind of hit home for me as well.
- [110:27]
Peter Beinart
Thanks. Thanks. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting if you look at, you know, if you look at Jewish religious thinkers in the early, you know, in the early decades of Zionism, there's A great fear actually of nationalism, of secular nationalism, that secular nationalism actually doesn't, that secular nationalism will undermine and threaten the kind of ethical principles in Judaism. And I think that's exactly what's happened, that nationalism has become a religion, not just nationalism, but ethno nationalism has become a religion. And you see it in the United States, you see it among Jews. You see it in India, right, where Hindutva kind of has become a version of Hinduism or replacement Hinduism, in which basically the rights of Muslims now are considered to be something that doesn't need to be respected because this is a Hindu nation. It's a very dangerous thing that I think is happening globally.
- [111:24]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, I think that's a really important point. I did want to ask you a little bit about some current events and Elon Musk in particular, cuz it certainly directly relates to your book. I mean, this is a person who has shared and spread the quote, unquote, great replacement theory, which is brazenly anti Semitic. He had to go and like pay, you know, do penance with the ADL and go on this trip to Israel, et cetera. But routinely, you know, his algorithm on Twitter boosts. My feed is filled with a bunch of Nazis constantly like amplifying their talking points. Goes now and speaks to the far right German AfD party, absolutely reactionary. Did what sure looked to be, in my humble opinion, like a Nazi salute twice on inauguration day. And yet the adl, which is supposed to be the arbiter of what is and what isn't, anti Semitism, comes out and was like just an awkward. We understand tensions are high, just an awkward gesture. And not just them. Bibi Netanyahu himself comes out and says Elon's a friend of the Jewish. I mean, how do we explain this whitewashing of Nazism directly from the organs that are supposed to be repelled by such an ideology?
- [112:36]
Peter Beinart
Well, first of all, it's just sheer cowardice which we're seeing. There's an orgy of cowardice happening across American institutions. Right. People are afraid of Elon Musk and they're afraid of Donald Trump. So that's just, I think one broader thing which is happening, which is the ADL is doing as well, but it's also because. Because the struggle against a certain kind of bigotry, in this case anti Semitism has been foundly corrupted by the equation of a struggle against bigotry with the defense of a state and indeed with the defense of a state that itself is practicing state sponsored bigotry. Right. Israel's Own leading human rights organizations say that Israel is practicing apartheid. So you can't be an anti bigotry organization if you define your mission as defending a state. State that's practicing bigotry. Right. And so, you know, I sometimes imagine what would happen if the NAACP defined its struggle against anti black bigotry as also including the defense of Nigeria, Ghana, Kenya, Sudan and a bunch of other African governments. Right. They would be lobbing accusations at progressives all the time who were criticizing these governments for their human rights abuses. Right. It would completely distort and undermine their effort against, against anti black racism. And this is really what's happened with the ADL and other American Jewish organizations since the 1970s when they redefined themselves as Israel defense organizations.
- [114:02]
Krystal Ball
What do you make of some of the developments that we've seen here? Early in the Trump administration, even before he comes into office, they're able to secure what is at least a temporary ceasefire deal. In the Gaza Strip. We see people who have just recently been able to return to their homes. At the same time, lot of question marks about what is gonna happen next. You see increasing mass violence in the west bank, both by violent settlers, but also very much backed by the idf. You know, Bibi Netanyahu has already seemed to promise that they're gonna go back to the war and the atrocities as soon as this phase is complete. What do you sort of make a of where we are? What are your hopes and fears for what happens next?
- [114:47]
Peter Beinart
I think that, look, obviously it was a good thing that there was a ceasefire, that some of those hostages are coming home, that the Palestinians at least can get some aid in, so they're not starving to death. But the trajectory overall looks incredibly bleak. If you had to ask me what I think is the most likely scenario trajectory that we are headed on, and it will take decades maybe to be headed, but this is unless we change US Policy and Europe changes policy and Israeli impunity ends. I think we are on a path towards the destruction of the Palestinian people. Not that every last Palestinian is going to die, but something analogous to what the United States did in the 19th century with Native Americans. Right. We didn't create a two state solution. We didn't stop along when we stop at the Mississippi river and say, you can have the land. Right. Basically, the US Just continued and continued until Native Americans were destroyed as a political entity that could resist. And I think that what we are seeing is that things that we did not believe were possible in the 21st century, we believed were relegated to an earlier era. In human history are very much possible. And I don't think they will stop with Palestinians, and I don't think they will stop with Gaza unless we can stop it through a mass political movement that can change the political dynamics in the United States. I think that's the only thing that's going. Because Donald Trump is not going to stand in the way of this. In fact, he's going to applaud this. He said the people of Gaza should go to Jordan and Egypt. I mean, that statement alone should have him sitting in the Hague before the International Criminal Court is a call, it is a monstrous call for mass ethnic cleansing. The United States has, with our weapons, destroyed this piece of territory, destroyed most of the hospitals, the schools, the agriculture, the buildings. And now Donald Trump says it looks like it's really awful there. Not that we're gonna rebuild it. Not that those people deserve freedom, not that they should be able to return to Israel, which is where their families are actually from, and were expelled in 1948, but that they should go and become stateless refugees in a foreign country. Unless we can change the politics through a mass movement, this is where things are headed. I think.
- [116:57]
Krystal Ball
And I think that you are right to point out that even if this was quote, unquote, only, this treatment was only reserved for Palestinians. Obviously, that would be horror enough. But to me, the implication is much broader. Because once a complete genocide and ethnic cleansing is on the table with the backing of the world's superpower and our weapons and the President of the United States saying, hey, this is the solution I want want going forward that doesn't just stay in that corner of the world, that opens up a Pandora's box of new, horrifying possibilities that we really haven't fully. I mean, not that the world has ever been perfect, not that the post World War II order has been. Not that the US has been benevolent, not that we haven't fallen down, but it truly opens up a new order of pure might makes right barbarism that has ramifications for the entire world. The United States of America includes absolutely.
- [117:54]
Peter Beinart
You know what? I think we forget actually we could be entering a real new age of ethnic cleansing. I mean, there was ethnic cleansing of Armenians that actually happened in the summer of October 2023, that people don't remember so much. But countries learn from each other, governments learn from each other, right? And they see what's possible. They see what you can get away with. And so there are a lot of countries, governments in the world. You think of Narendra Modi with Muslims in India. There are a lot of governments that say we have disposable populations. We have populations that are a nuisance for us and our vision of the state that we want. Right. And if Israel can do this to the Palestinians, and Israel is also exporting this technology all over the world.
- [118:32]
Krystal Ball
That's right, Right.
- [118:33]
Peter Beinart
It's testing and exporting this dystopic technology of surveillance and death. And it will be used in. It will be used all over the world to populations that their governments consider a nuisance.
- [118:45]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, no, that's right. Palestine, you know, Gaza has truly been a sort of Laboratory for AI driven death and destruction. The DropSite and 972 Plus Magazine both revealed Microsoft's biggest AI customer now. And this is OpenAI's partner biggest AI customer now is the Israeli government. Post October 7th. And you know, our own government obviously pushing huge amount of dollars in their direction and celebrating this sort of development. And so it's not just, obviously we already have nuclear weapons, we already have the capability to destroy the world, but the level of barbarism that will be enabled by these AI tools also ups the stakes, just in insane levels that we can barely comprehend.
- [119:33]
Peter Beinart
Absolutely. And in the Torah, idolatry is linked to barbarism again and again because it means idolatry is that you don't respect the dignity of the human being. And you were referring to the woman, I'm forgetting her name, who spoke out at the Episcopal Church in front of Donald Trump and J.D. man. And when I looked at her, I thought, where are our equivalents of that woman in the Jewish world? People who are willing to risk being publicly attacked, people who are willing to risk violence against, people who are willing to risk their jobs. Abraham Joshua Heschel, one of the greatest American Jewish figures of the 20th century, said that during the Vietnam War, he could not pray, he could not open the prayer book because he saw images in his mind of children being napalmed. Where are our rabbis that are speaking that way about the fact that Gaza now has more child amputees than any place in human history? I feel like there's a huge moral absence there.
- [120:28]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, well, you're not a rabbi, but your voice has been really important, not just with this book, but, you know, with your track record of speaking out and risking significant consequences both in terms of your personal and professional life. So, Peter, tell people where they can get the book. And we can put the book jacket back up on the screen too, so we can see.
- [120:45]
Peter Beinart
Thank you. You can get it. You can just get it online, any of the online booksellers or hopefully your local bookstore. And I'm really, really grateful to have the opportunity to talk about it with you.
- [120:55]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, it's absolutely our pleasure and it's always an honor to get to speak with you. Peter, thank you so much for taking the time.
- [121:01]
Peter Beinart
Thanks a lot.
- [121:02]
Krystal Ball
All right, guys, thank you so much for watching Jam Packed Day. We did not, in fact get to that promised blog about buyance because there is just too much to say about too many other topics. But thank you guys so much for sticking with us and trusting us in this very, very busy and consequential news cycle. And we will see you guys again next week.
- [121:26]
Jeremy Corbell
Hello iHeart listener, we have a confession to make. Both iHeart and this commercial you're listening to right now would probably sound a heck of a lot better on the new Roku Pro Series tv. It's got side firing speakers that fill your room with sound, Dolby Atmos audio that puts you right in the middle of the entertainment, and the ability to pair seamlessly with your home theater sound systems that already have surround sound and booming bass. If all that sounds too good to be true, it'll sound even better on the new Roku Pro series. Your hearing isn't better. Your TV is.
- [121:56]
Peter Beinart
Odoo is business management made so simple a kid could explain it.
- [122:00]
Krystal Ball
Sometimes business software can't talk to other programs, but Odoo, Funny Word, has every program from CRM to HR to accounting in one platform. It should cost a lot, but it doesn't.
- [122:14]
Sagar Enjeti
So you should use Odoo because they save you money. Odoo makes a lot of sense, but doesn't cost a lot of sense. Sign up now@odoo.com that's o d o o.com Good job. Thanks. Amazon One Medical presents Painful Thoughts I.
- [122:32]
Krystal Ball
Could catch anything sitting in this doctor's waiting room.
- [122:36]
Jeremy Corbell
A kid just wiped his runny nose.
- [122:37]
Sagar Enjeti
On my jacket and the guy next.
- [122:39]
Krystal Ball
To me sitting in a pool of perspiration insists on sharing my armrest.
- [122:45]
Sagar Enjeti
Next time, make an appointment with an.
- [122:47]
Jeremy Corbell
Amazon One Medical provider.
- [122:49]
Sagar Enjeti
There's no waiting and no sweaty guy. Amazon One Medical Healthcare just got less painful.