← Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
1/8/25: LA Fires, Trump Threatens Canada, CNN Meltdown Over Zuck, TikTok Ban & MORE!
01:56:33
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- [00:00]
Nikki Glaser
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- [00:27]
Ryan Grim
Restrictions apply often not available in all areas.
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Emily
Where'd you get those shoes? Easy.
- [00:32]
Nikki Glaser
They're from dsw. Because DSW has the exact right shoes.
- [00:36]
Emily
For whatever you're into right now.
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Nikki Glaser
You know, like the sneakers that make office hours feel like happy hour, the.
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Emily
Boots that turn grocery aisles into runways, and all the styles that show off the many sides of you, from daydreamer.
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Nikki Glaser
To multitasker, and everything in between.
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Emily
Because you do it all in really great shoes. Find a shoe for every you at.
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Nikki Glaser
Your DSW store or dsw.com Amazon One.
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Ahmed Khan
Medical presents Painful Thoughts I could catch.
- [01:06]
Emily
Anything sitting in this doctor's waiting room.
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Ryan Grim
A kid just wiped his runny nose.
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Emily
On my jacket and the guy next.
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Ryan Grim
To me sitting in a pool of perspiration insists on sharing my armrest.
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Joel
Next time, make an appointment with an.
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Ryan Grim
Amazon One medical provider. There's no waiting and no sweaty guy.
- [01:24]
Sagar
Amazon One Medical Healthcare just got less painful.
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Ryan Grim
Hey guys, Sagar and Krystal here. Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are.
- [01:36]
Nikki Glaser
So excited about what that means for.
- [01:38]
Ryan Grim
The future of this show. This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left.
- [01:42]
Emily
And the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.
- [01:45]
Ryan Grim
So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access.
- [01:51]
Nikki Glaser
To our full shows unedited ad, free.
- [01:53]
Ryan Grim
And all put together for you every morning in your inbox.
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Emily
We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you@breakingpoints.com Good morning, everybody, and welcome to Counterpoints. Ryan, how are you doing? You're in the studio making me look bad.
- [02:11]
Ryan Grim
Well, I didn't read the memo, so here I am in the studio making sure everything is locked down and ready for us when we get back in here officially next week. Got some crew in here too, so we're in good shape.
- [02:23]
Emily
Thanks for checking in on things, but it's a great shot actually, and you still have the winter monitors behind you, so it really works out well because there's you know, about 7 inches of snow in D.C. which usually it's really warm outside when we have the winter monitors on.
- [02:38]
Ryan Grim
Yes, indeed.
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Emily
All right. So we have a big packed show for everyone today. We're going to be starting with the tragic wildfire that broke out in Palisades yesterday outside of Los Angeles. They then Donald Trump held a wild press conference. We'll break down all of the key elements from it for you. Mark Zuckerberg, obviously, as Crystal and Sagar covered yesterday, changed the free speech policy on Meta and some other things as well. But the reaction to it is what we're going to cover today because it's been very, very interesting. Kevin O'Leary is poised to buy TikTok, obviously, oral arguments in the case at the Supreme Court will begin on Friday. So this is a very high stakes game. Congestion pricing has gone into effect in New York City and man, the reactions there. And there's just a lot to talk about actually with that entire story. And I'm curious to get your thoughts on it, Ryan. But the reactions have been fascinating to watch. And Ryan, we're also going to do updates from Gaza. This is something that Donald Trump touched on at his press conference. And there's a lot more going on with the UAE and other countries as they look for some type of settlement there. And we have a guest.
- [03:48]
Ryan Grim
Yep. And it might not be in this show that goes out on the podcast, but we're going to be joined by Ahmed Khan. Again, you may remember a few weeks ago we had talked about how he had spent something like six months and managed to get his own shipment of aid into Gaza, working with the on the ground organization Arena. We'll talk to him about and he went in with the shipment. So we'll talk to him about like what what he saw on the ground there. He also has been kind of at the forefront of what is kind of a considered to be a niche issue, but it shouldn't be. There's something like 25,000 to 50,000 people in Gaza who need kind of critical medical care. And all they need is permission from Israel to leave. And they have a hospital that is willing to treat them. Israel is blocking them. And he's working on a lot of those cases. He's also been in Ukraine recently. So he's he's going to update us on a bunch of what he's seen.
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Emily
Fantastic. Well, let's start with the tragedy outside of Los Angeles and the Palisades where 30,000 people have been evacuated. Around 3,000 acres have already burned and the fire, as we come to Everybody right now, is. 0. 0%, 0% contained. There are two other fires raging in the area as well. But this, this fire, the images that are coming in are just. We're going to put some of them up on the screen for everybody right now. Images are coming in right now, and they are stunning. So if you are listening to this, what we're looking at here is just the hills in complete flames. People taking video from West Hollywood, for example, just showing how close the blaze is looking down. Ryan, this footage that we've been seeing come in. I'm going to share another tab here. This is footage from KTLA from the perimeter of the fire. They've actually started clearing. This is just shocking. People abandoned their vehicles because of the gridlock. Obviously, that's a very L A thing. They're now needing to get those cars, the abandoned vehicles that people left as they fled on foot out of the way by using a bulldozer just so that the firefighters can get in and have access to actually save lives and save property and contain the fire a little bit. But as of right now, it's not contained basically at all. What have you made of this? Just in the last, you know, honestly, Ryan, 24 hours, as we've started to see some of these horrifying images.
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Ryan Grim
Yeah. I was talking to a few friends who live in Los Angeles last night, and they said, you know, the winds were unlike really anything that they had felt before. These Santa Ana winds whipping through measurements have clocked them at up to 99 miles per hour. They're expected, you know, to continue at that pace through much of today. It seems like it's been at least 10 years since there's been. There's. There have been Santa Ana winds of, of that forest. And so they're picking up embers from fires, tossing them through the dry air, landing them on new rooftops, burning new. Burning new houses, new fires sparking in, you know, throughout the Los Angeles area, creating a real kind of hell on earth situation. Like you said, 0% contained. Seems like there were reports of a lot of fire hydrants running out of water. And the traffic on the best of days in Los Angeles is just brutal, absolute. The most poorly designed urban area you can possibly imagine. And trying to imagine escaping raging fire with those normal traffic patterns in your way turning into panicked traffic patterns. You know, every one of those cars represents a family or a person who was fleeing their home and then believed that they couldn't make it anymore in their car and just left it right in the middle of the road, which of course then leads to, you know, complete and total gridlock.
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Emily
Yeah, I do want to share one video of two men escaping because I think it's a glimpse into the experiences that a lot of people in California have had over the last 24 hours. And it's apocalyptic. It's like a horror movie come to life. So let's take a look at this video here.
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Sagar
All right, dude. Yeah, let's get out of here. We tried, we tried, bro.
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Ryan Grim
I'm sorry.
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Emily
Got our best.
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Sagar
Yeah. When this tree falls, it's over. I'm sorry, bro. Gotta get out of here. Oh, holy is that tree.
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Emily
And Ryan, what I think is especially horrifying about that video is you can see in real time the fire spreading because they're obviously running through the embers that are falling like snow onto trees, onto houses. And it really does look like. It looks like snow. It's snowing in hell, essentially. Like it's raining fire onto them. And you can see they're in the middle of how it's spreading so wildly and why it's not contained. Just like a horror movie. I mean it really looks like a scene from horror movie.
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Ryan Grim
And it's unlike, unlike a lot of things. It's not sparing the rich either. You know, it's going after, you know, you know, properties worth, you know, well, well into the millions, really rocking the city. It's, we'll, you know, hopefully this, these winds die down and they can get this under control. And it, and we don't have kind of a pocket apocalyptic level damage despite the scenes that we're seeing.
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Emily
Right. And so LA Mayor Karen Bass is actually not in town right now. But immediately people have started to Wonder about the $23 million that she had recently proposed as a cut to the fire department. This is a headline from back in April. You can see if you go down here, she proposed a decrease of about $23 million from the LA Fire Department. And you know that for, for Karen Bass is going to be a huge, huge problem going she gets back into town. Let me share another element here as well. A lot of people wondering, understandably wondering, this is a post on X. Where are our tax dollars going as the city of LA goes broke? One of the many questions we get this is from the account of the LA City Controller Kenneth Metcha. He says the city just started a new fiscal year and if you want to know how the mayor and a majority of city council decreased or increased departments operational budgets, see below. So what you're, you're seeing on this chart, if you make it out, is a huge increase in the police budget. And as you go down, you start to see, you know, decreases that are going to now come under the microscope. Public Works is one of those. That's, you know, there's a, there's a big cut there. Fire. You can see that down towards the end. That's the second. If you're, if you're listening to this, indeed, you see a significant cut out of the fire budget. And Ryan, the other thing I wanted to mention is you probably remember this. Obviously, the infamous company PG and E Pacific Gas and Electric ended up being on the, the under the microscope just as Karen Bass budget cuts likely will be in the Dixie Fire to they were able. A Wall Street Journal reporter wrote a whole great book about how PG&E they had. They just hadn't updated all of their equipment. And that was like the literal spark in the Dixie Fire. And oftentimes, as we peel back the LA errors, this isn't just a force of nature. It isn't just an accident. It isn't just, you know, there's usually some level, as you're peeling back of incompetence or corruption or human error that gets to the heart of this. And that's going to be the question moving forward.
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Ryan Grim
And if you step back kind of out of the. I think it's very difficult to look at Los Angeles in particular from inside of our, of our perspective as Americans, because it's sort of like fish and water. Like it just kind of is what it is. But if you try to step back and look at it from outside the United States or in a more objective way, what you see is a city that spends tens of millions of dollars on individual homes for individual people with the most lavish artwork and swimming pools and luxuries that anybody could possibly contemplate, say like 200 years ago, while starving kind of the rest of the city of needed public improvements so that people can actually move around efficiently and so that public services are decently funded. And so we often say, well, you know, can we afford, you know, an effective fire department? Can we afford, you know, better schools? The question that you might have to ask about Los Angeles in particular, and maybe the United States more generally, can we afford this billionaire class? Because we are the ones that have produced that billionaire class. It's our society, it's our system. We are somehow deciding, or through not deciding, allowing this flourishing of this extraordinary inequality that is sucking up all of the resources that could be Put in other directions. And the question is, can we afford it? And when you look at what's happening in Los Angeles now, to me it says, no, we can't afford it.
- [14:01]
Emily
I mean, it gets harder to afford it in that sense, Brian, when you're also allowing the billionaires to like, corrupt the system and to just live in a sheer state of oligarchy, which is sort of. It's tragic. It's tragicomedy in California because, you know, tragicomedy when there's not actual human life on the line because you look at it and you're like, this is. You have the system of referendums, like, you have as close to direct democracy as exists in the United States. And yet the billionaires really run the show. So this may be a total force of nature situation that would not be uncommon or crazy. But California has seen some PG&E is a company that gets just enormous benefits from the government. We've seen massive slashing from Karen Bass. Fire was second to last on that list of the highest cuts. So, yeah, there are going to be a lot of significant questions I think asked here, rightfully so, about the oligarchy in California.
- [15:04]
Ahmed Khan
Right?
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Ryan Grim
Yeah. And we're entering a phase where the climate is going to be more difficult for our human population to live in and more expensive. And we're going to have to decide whether or not we want to invest in that or else whether we want to see it just burned down in front of us.
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Emily
Horrible. Well, let's hope that things get better today, although it's not looking like they will. But stay tuned. We'll have a lot more to come on this story for sure.
- [15:29]
Ryan Grim
Playoffs.
- [15:30]
Krystal
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Ryan Grim
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Krystal
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Ryan Grim
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- [16:43]
Krystal
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- [16:54]
Nikki Glaser
Hey, it's Nikki Glaser. I'm not here to roast you. I'm here to overshare everything that went down at the Golden Globes last Sunday. Everyone is already talking about what happened on air at the Golden Globes, but you are going to hear about what happened off air from the horse's mouth. Yes, I'm the horse. Me, Nikki Glaser. Join me on my podcast, the Nikki Glaser Podcast, where I will be telling you all the details. I can finally relax with my besties, my listeners, and dish. What happened backstage? What went down? The things people are already talking about, the things that people should be talking about. I've got it all. From what it took to prep for the Golden Globes to the behind the scenes of the Golden Globes. What went down in the rehearsals, who said what at the after party, who I saw at the after party, who was dancing with who. I'm gonna spill it. All secrets will be revealed. You do not want to miss this episode. Listen to the Nikki Glaser podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [17:46]
Krystal
2025 is bound to be a fascinating year. It's gonna be filled with money challenges and opportunities. I'm Joel.
- [17:53]
Joel
Oh, and I am Matt.
- [17:55]
Krystal
And we're the hosts of how to Money. We want to be with you every step of the way in your financial journey this year, offering the information and insights you need to thrive financially.
- [18:04]
Joel
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- [18:25]
Krystal
That's right. How to Money comes out three times a week. Mondays, Wednesdays, and Friday, Fridays. For money advice without the judgment and jargon, listen to how to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [18:39]
Ryan Grim
All right, Donald Trump met with the media for over an hour yesterday describing his plans for military slash, potentially economic coercion against Panama, against Greenland, poked some fun at Canada along the way. We're going to talk about a bunch of what he said, but let's start by playing some of the key clips and I'm going to share these. Bear with me. I'm a bit new.
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Emily
This was at, by the way, this was at a wild press conference that he held in Palm beach yesterday. It was like very, I saw one, one journalist post on X, like the Trump era is back. It did remind me a lot of those press conferences he held during the transition in 2017, before he was inaugurated in 2017. And some of the early press conferences, conferences in that administration too, even some of the COVID press conferences. I mean, this is Donald Trump at his Trumpiest when he's interacting with reporters and just goes for a really long time. We'll talk about literally anything. So there's a wide range from these clips you're about to see, but Ryan queued up a great one. This is about Greenland, right?
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Ryan Grim
Canada, I think this was. Oh, Canada, here we go.
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Donald Trump
But why are we supporting a country 200 billion plus a year? Our military is at their disposal. All of these other things, they should be a state. That's why I told Trudeau when he came down, I said, what would happen if we didn't do it? He said Canada would dissolve. Canada wouldn't be able to function if we didn't take that 20% of our car up market. You know, we again, they send us hundreds of thousands of cars. They make a lot of money with that. They send us a lot of other things that we don't need. We don't need their cars and we don't need the other products. We don't need their milk. We got a lot of milk. We got a lot of everything, and we don't need any of it. So I said to him, well, why are we doing it? He said, I don't really know. He was unable to answer the question, but I can answer it. We're doing it because of habit and we're doing it because we like our neighbors and we've been good neighbors, but we can't do it forever. And it's a tremendous amount of money. And why should we have a $200 billion deficit and add onto that many, many other things that we give them in terms of subsidy? And I said, that's okay to have if you're a state, but if you're another country, we don't want to have it. We're not going to have it with European Union either.
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Emily
Love it, right? I always love it when he says not. Sometimes he just drops the the in front of something. So instead of saying the European Union, he just says European Union. We're not going to do it with European Union.
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Ryan Grim
Yeah. And I love that he just talks about Canada being one state. Not, you can imagine there might be more than one state in that giant thing in there. But we'll talk more about Canada because this is fun. But let's look at some of his other good times. Greenland. Donald Trump Jr. Here visited Greenland. A little provocation, maybe. This is the, this is the effort to plant the flag.
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Emily
He's been in Greenland for the last couple of days with Sergio Gore and Charlie Kirk and they've been posting pictures and videos with the good people of Greenland. So the timing of the press conference was quite interesting yesterday because it was happening as these pictures were being posted of Donald Trump Jr. You know, saying the people of Charlie Kirk posted, you know, the people of Greenland just want their freedom, et cetera, et cetera. I'm paraphrasing them, but they actually made the trip. So it was good timing for Donald Trump to make these remarks in a question after a question he got yesterday.
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Ryan Grim
Yeah, here we go. Back on Greenland, your position is clear. But have you directed your staff to.
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Krystal
Take these specific actions to drop plans.
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Ryan Grim
And can you elaborate again, you didn't rule out military coercion.
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Donald Trump
Well, we need Greenland for national security purposes. I've been told that for a long time, long before I even ran. I mean, people have been talking about it for a long time. You have approximately 45,000 people there. People really don't even know if Denmark has any legal right to it, but if they do, they should give it up because we need it for national security. That's for the free world. I'm talking about protecting the free world. You look at, you don't even need binoculars. You look outside, you have China ships all over the place. You have Russian ships all over the place. We're not letting that happen. We're not letting it happen.
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Ryan Grim
Okay. We're not letting that happen. Where, where is the right on Greenland? While I'm doing up the next, next.
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Emily
Clip entirely in favor. But the rights trolling of Canada is what's really has me confused recently. If you add Canada to the United States as a state or as individual states, you're, you're adding actually by gdp, which is not the best measure of these things, but it is A measure of these things. One of the, it would be one of the poorest states in the, in the unions. This is, I guess, you know, national defense, obviously advantages that would come with adding, adding Canada controlling more of the Arctic. But that one baffles me a little bit. I think a lot of it is trolling. Greenland is not trolling. That's, that's completely serious. Goes back to, obviously Seward people are Alaska panned out well, so maybe it wouldn't be such a folly to take on Greenland.
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Ryan Grim
Yeah, fair point. Yes. Seward. Seward's folly was what, the purchase of Alaska. Right, right. People said it was absolutely ridiculous. That seemed to work out pretty well for the US And Seward also wanted to get the other Alaska on the other side. Here's Trudeau's response. There isn't a snowball's chance in hell. Trudeau tweeted Trudeau, who has now resigned. There isn't a snowball's chance in hell that Canada would become part of the United States. Workers and communities in both our countries benefit from being each other's biggest trading and security partners. I'd like to know how that conversation that Trump described with Trudeau actually went. I think I'm not somebody who's here to give the United States advice on how to be a better global hegemon, because I think we're actually a genuinely destructive force in the world. So anything that strengthens us is probably a bad idea. But to me, it does actually seem that the US as a hegemon would be strengthened by basically absorbing Canada into the United States, not just for the resources, but also for the number one thing that the US Kind of has going for it is that it's the global reserve currency backed by the U.S. military. If you add Canada's currency to the U.S. currency, the, the Canadian dollar goes away and they just have American dollars. It adds a non trivial circulation of currency around the world, which would then counteract the efforts by brics, and generally by brics, but by other countries to start doing bilateral or multilateral trading that goes around the dollar, which is the main threat. Because if we're not actually manufacturing anything and we're just the center of capital, but capital isn't circulating in US Dollars anymore because we've thrown away our kind of our imperial privilege that we have, then what do we have left? So to that extent, I would say for the US it's probably a good thing. And Canada, from its perspective, does seem to have lost the plot. Like there was a stretch where you could look at Canada and say they've got something interesting going on up there. You know, they've got a little different version here. They've got a different culture, they've got some stronger, you know, communal politics now. They just. Nothing impressive going on up there. So I think it's probably a wrap for Canada.
- [26:31]
Emily
People hate when we talk about Canada. They're really gonna hate what you just said. Quote, nothing impressive going on up there.
- [26:39]
Ryan Grim
Prove me wrong.
- [26:42]
Emily
The country is in dire straits right now. There's no question about that. And actually, your point about currency is a really interesting one in the natural resources in Canada and Mexico. I mean, Mexico, while we're just talking at the 30,000 foot level, that would be, I think, a spectacular addition in terms of natural resources, shipping. That's what a lot of this comes down to, shipping, not just for commerce, but for defense. That's the conversation that's being had about Panama. Donald Trump talked a little bit about Panama in the press conference yesterday as well. Obviously very timely because of Jimmy Carter's funeral. And I'm sure, Ryan, you have a different perspective than I do on Panama. But one of the things I will say is the Overton window is shifting right now. And this is something that Trump. I don't know if it's genius, if it's incidental, but we've never ever. It's only Trump that broaches something like this and gets taken seriously. We never, ever had these conversations before. And just for the, the, I mean, we have, but you're not in recent contemporary politics. You'd just sort of be laughed at if you talked about adding Canada as the 51st state.
- [27:49]
Ryan Grim
Well, I am kind of laughing, but.
- [27:52]
Emily
Well, yeah, but he is like, Canada's not laughing. They really aren't laughing. And, you know, Denmark isn't finding this whole thing all that amusing either. But that's like, this is going to change the way that we talk about our neighbors, not just in terms of trade.
- [28:10]
Ryan Grim
Literally, literally changed the way we talk about our neighbors. Speaking of laughing, $60 trillion worth of.
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Donald Trump
Assets, we're going to be changing the name of the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America, which has a beautiful ring that covers a lot of territory. The Gulf of America. What a beautiful name. And it's appropriate. It's appropriate. And Mexico has to stop allowing millions of people to pour into our country.
- [28:39]
Ryan Grim
And so, yeah, that goes along with his kind of Trumpian Monroe Doctrine, where, like you said, he talked about how, look, hey, we built the Panama Canal. We built it for us, basically. But Let Panama take care of it. Now we've turned it over to the Chinese, and that's outrageous. You know, I do think from an American perspective of, like, the dominant power having the dominant influence in its sphere seems reasonable. It seems also kind of hypocritical for us to then tell China that they ought to have no influence on their side of the world, that we're going to completely control this, and also we're going to completely control everything around China as well. Like you can imagine from China's perspective. Like, wait a minute. Okay, fine. Panama Canal. You want that thing back? All right, whatever. It's tiny. It's like, you need, like, you know, the big ships can't fit through it anymore. You need to do a lot of upgrades on it, but then get off our back about Chinese influence over in Asia.
- [29:51]
Emily
So the conversation Crystal and Sager had yesterday about Trudeau as the kind of symbol of the neoliberal arc over the last 10 years and that sort of winding down as Trudeau was the beacon of the, like, new neoliberal future and then is kind of unraveling as Donald Trump comes back into office and has been selected by voters again, is interesting. And in the context of what you're just saying, Cold War Western politics were this, like, soft imperialism or this, like, apologetic imperialism, where you have people like Jimmy Carter negotiating the return of the Panama Canal to Panama, which Trump ripped.
- [30:33]
Ryan Grim
Harder for in the press conference.
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Emily
Yeah, right, right. While waging a Cold War and doing it in different ways that I think are arguably very imperialistic. And you and I would definitely agree on that. And so what Trump. I think Trump is just shifting that. It's like, that is. Who knows? I mean, you go from Carter to Reagan and things flip back and forth. But Trump seems like he's ushering in this new era of just, like, brash imperialism, return to brash imperialism, which is like, this is hard power. This is our hemisphere. It's the Monroe Doctrine. To your point, which you do hear a lot of conservatives talking about now in a very reverent way. So I do think it's like, just the conversation that he's broached and brought into the Overton window, or stretched the Overton window to bring it in, is a. A pretty fascinating one.
- [31:28]
Ryan Grim
It is nice to be at least able to talk about it out loud and talk about it in clear terms, rather than smuggling it in through the language of democracy promotion or.
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Emily
Right. Like, would you rather have the CIA run Panama or at least have transparently out in the open that The United States is trying to run Panama.
- [31:51]
Ryan Grim
Yeah. If these are our choices. Yeah. So in any event, it's going to be interesting that at least we will be gifted with.
- [31:59]
Emily
Yes. The Gulf of America of which, by the way, like we have a state called New Mexico.
- [32:05]
Ryan Grim
The Gulf of New Mexico.
- [32:09]
Emily
Yeah, it wouldn't really work. But anyway. Yes. Quite a moment yesterday at that wild press conference and we'll see what happens going forward.
- [32:16]
Ryan Grim
Now that wokeness that's going through and renaming everything, by the way.
- [32:20]
Emily
Oh, it is a sort of iconoclasm, right? Yeah, not a bad point, Ryan. Well, we have more meltdowns to cover, Ryan, so let's move on to Brian Stelter.
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Emily
Ooh.
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And I am Matt.
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Krystal
And we're the hosts of How To Money. We want to be with you every step of the way in your financial journey this year, offering the information and insights you need to thrive financially.
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Krystal
That's right. How to Money comes out three times a week. Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. For money advice without the judgment and jargon, listen to how to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Ahmed Khan
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Ryan Grim
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Ahmed Khan
The wolves are hungry. What will you feed them? Listen to the one you feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Emily
After Mark Zuckerberg made his major announcement yesterday that Meta would be changing its approach to speech, actually reversing its approach to speech policies on the plat, fact checking policies on the platform, reactions have been pouring in from people on the left and the right. Let's just start with, in case you missed it, part of this video Mark Zuckerberg posted Soccer and Crystal covered it yesterday. It actually sort of happened early in the morning. This was Posted right before 7:00am East Coast Time and was accompanied by a statement from Meta that kind of fleshed out their approach a little bit. You know, getting rid of those third party fact checkers, moving towards community notes. Mark Zuckerberg mentioned mentioned Elon Musk directly. At least X directly, the platform that Musk has started using for community notes. So let's take a look just at a brief clip from Mark Zuckerberg's statement yesterday, in case you missed it. So here it is and focus on.
- [35:47]
Ryan Grim
Reducing mistakes, simplifying our policies, and restoring free expression on our platforms. More specifically, we're going to get rid of fact checkers and replace them with community notes similar to X starting in the us.
- [36:00]
Emily
So Ryan, one interesting thing there is, he says back to our roots and talks about how he had started Meta as a way to give people a voice. So it's pretty interesting to see this recycling of the ethos that they had a lot in that sort of early Obama era when they were the cool kids with the ping pong tables in their offices. And now they're saying, listen, we're just getting back to Internet 1.0 ethos. This is all about freedom speech. I'm wearing a gold chain. I look like I would be sitting on a UFC bench with Elon and Trump. Even more like I fit in even more than Mike Johnson.
- [36:45]
Ryan Grim
Yeah. And there is some real truth that some of the early tech DNA had roots in kind of an anarchist information wants to be free version of the world. In fact, going back to the kind of hippie acid creation of the Internet in its early days, a lot of those founders really believed that they were building kind of revolutionary technology that was going to overthrow the powers that be, move fast and break things was for a very long time Zuckerberg's motto for Facebook. So there is actually some truth that at some point in tech's life it did have that ethos and did move away from it.
- [37:31]
Emily
No, that's, I think, a very worthy point. So Brian Stelter then appeared on CNN and had quite an interesting conversation about it. So let's roll a little bit of Stelter here.
- [37:43]
Sagar
It gets to this broader sense that.
- [37:44]
Ryan Grim
When people like Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg talk about free speech, everybody wants free speech, but it oftentimes seems that these tech CEOs actually are favoring or preferring a certain kind of speech. Right. They're favoring their own speech or their own political preferences and not the actual entire user or the community's speech. You know, the changes announced by Meta today are very much a maga makeover, a pro Trump makeover. And that's going to win Meta some conservative users, but it may repel some liberals. That's the same thing we've seen happen on Elon Musk's X. He's turned into more of a right wing platform where he's pro free speech when it's really pro musk or pro Trump speech.
- [38:26]
Emily
So, Ryan, that's interesting because we just talked about how Facebook was sort of informed by that early ethos of the Internet. And now in 2025 you have Brian Stelter referring to that as a MAGA makeover. And honestly, there's something of a point to that in that it is the same argument that you started to hear from people on the right who were skeptical of these early Internet guys. Conservatives, not libertarians so much. Obviously libertarians were always a part of that movement, but it's just to call that a MAGA makeover. It's true in some sense, but also misses the broader context that it's actually more of the traditional aclu, old left approach to speech that the right kind of happened upon because it suddenly was turned against them.
- [39:15]
Ryan Grim
Yeah, and I think it's wrong for Steltzer to conflate what's going on at Twitter X and what's going on at Facebook. I think both are flowing from the same kind of political project that we're seeing. Zuckerberg was very clear that he's explicitly making this change because elections have consequences. Like one admirable thing about his video is that it did not include corporate speak. He was very direct and he was very plain about what they're gonna do. We're gonna shut down our trust and safety team in California. We're gonna move it to Texas. There's just straightforward things like that which you can agree or disagree with, but, like, wow, this is rather blunt stuff. And he pinpointed it directly to the election with Musk. He kind of drove the change, more than responded to the change. And his championing of free speech has become kind of mockable in the face of his demonetizing of a whole bunch of his enemies that he engaged with on the H1B controversy. And then all of a sudden, they all start losing their blue checks and their promoted stuff and their subscribers and everything else. So it's like, all right, well, anybody who really put their faith there, I guess found that to be a little bit misplaced.
- [40:34]
Emily
It's oligarchy, however you slice it.
- [40:36]
Ryan Grim
It is. And actually, before we get to the next element, I want to pull one up that's not on the rundown, which I think is going rogue. Yeah. Going a little rogue here. But we can do that because we've got this more nimble system here. So this was Lina Khan on CNBC with a bit of a different take on what the problem is here.
- [40:57]
Nikki Glaser
An economy where the decisions of a single company or a single executive are not having extraordinary impact on speech online.
- [41:07]
Ryan Grim
And I know that's a concern that.
- [41:08]
Nikki Glaser
We hear bipartisan members of Congress talk about. And so it'll be interesting to see what happens. We, of course, have litigation ongoing. There's going to be a trial starting this spring, FTC versus Facebook, alleging that their prior acquisitions were illegal.
- [41:24]
Ryan Grim
What do you think, though, of the relationship that we're seeing between Big Tech and the next administration? What do you make of the meetings and pilgrimages with which we're seeing Mark Zuckerberg go to Mar A Lago or we're seeing a Jeff Bezos or Tim Cook. I mean, this is a very different kind of relationship leadership than the administration, the Biden administration had, and specifically what you represented to the business community.
- [41:53]
Nikki Glaser
So I approached my job with a focus on faithfully enforcing the law and making sure we were doing that across the economy without fear.
- [42:01]
Ryan Grim
Yeah. I mean, leave that for there. But basically, what she's saying is probably something that the right would have agreed with several years ago, which is.
- [42:08]
Emily
Yep.
- [42:09]
Ryan Grim
We shouldn't have to hope that Mark Zuckerberg wakes up one day and makes the right decision. Yep. Nobody elected Mark Zuckerberg to be in that position.
- [42:18]
Emily
And Elon Musk. And Elon Musk. Right. We shouldn't have to hope that Jack Dorsey wakes up one day and looks favorably upon the conservative case when the New York Times is coming down on you. And yeah, Lina Khan won favor on the right. I mean, she continued a Trump administration suit against Google because that argument, it wasn't just that she was going after big tech, it was that this very specific argument about single oligarchs who control a wide swath of the public square with private platforms, whether it's Instagram, Facebook meta as a whole or Twitter now X that was always the problem. And so yes, it's great that they're, you know, saying at least publicly that they're taking a lighter approach to the suppression or censorship of speech. That is obviously a step in the right direction and saying we're not going to put our thumb on the scale as much as our previous policies suggested. But what Lina Khan is saying is that we have an economy structured so as that they can put their thumb on the scale at any given moment. And that is the problem in and of itself. Not that they've decided that they're going to do it like, but the fact that they have the power to begin with is the problem. And conservatives used to agree with that. The question is whether Zuckerberg and Musk are convincing them they don't have to worry about it or they don't have to worry about it as much. So then it becomes a lower priority. Does ken Paxton in 2026 hypothetically care as much about going after big tech if big tech isn't going after conservatives?
- [43:54]
Ryan Grim
Exactly. Yeah. You know, a lot of Lina Khan's antitrust stuff has its roots in kind of right wings, free market oriented approaches to how markets ought to be structured. Even though she's gotten a lot of favor on the left, what she's describing there is an ad monopoly where Facebook has built a moat around an ad monopoly which prevents other social networks from coming in. It's difficult because you have size and scale difficulties of you have to get to a threshold level in a social network or you're not a social network. You need the social part in there, not just a handful of users. But she's saying because of the way they've built the moat, other people can't get in. And you're exactly right that you don't want politicians to be deciding on the policy of the structure of an economy based on just whether or not those companies are culturally with them at a particular moment.
- [44:57]
Emily
Right. And this is not something that's going to be in the rearview mirror for the Right or the left, frankly, if you are, as administrations switch and you have people trying to curry favor with the left and the right, obviously it wasn't quite as bad for the left when the Biden administration was asking, directly asking people like Mark Zuckerberg to censor the right. But if you don't change the fundamental structure of the economy, this becomes a problem, you know, for any side. And that doesn't go away unless you change the structure of the economy. And so what we're looking at now is having a wide swath of our discourse exported onto these private platforms that gamify that discourse and that have control over what is said, have control over the algorithms that amplify or de amplify what is said, and that's our future. That doesn't go away, that doesn't change, and we desperately, desperately need a solution to it. So unfortunately, it looks like some of that enthusiasm may be blunted on the right. If, you know, you have Zuckerberg putting a million dollars into the inauguration fund, it's not just whether the principle of the argument is still embraced by the right. It's whether there's any momentum or energy to have their own sort of. Lena Khan when the donors are like, this is a backbench issue. Give us the tax cuts. Let's focus on this, let's focus on that. You're right, it's not ideal, but so, yeah, it could be a quite unfortunate turn of events and Zuckerberg could be getting exactly what he pays for.
- [46:29]
Ryan Grim
So I saw Ben Shapiro was in here. Anytime I look at the top performers on Facebook, it seems like Shapiro and his, you know, alliance that he had built with Zuckerberg over the years was really paying off. What's, what's his take here?
- [46:43]
Emily
Yeah, everyone could see a post that he put up yesterday along with his segment from his show. He says Facebook has just completely reversed course on censorship. He posted this on X. After years of doing the Democratic Party's anti free speech bidding, it's beyond time. Good for Zuckerberg. And let's be real, this happened because Trump won. Then in all caps, he said, still not tired of winning. Let's go to Donald Trump himself, because he actually got asked that question directly at Mar A Lago yesterday.
- [47:12]
Ryan Grim
Meta said today it would stop putting fact checks on its website and instead allow community.
- [47:18]
Donald Trump
Well, I watched their news conference and I thought it was a very good news conference. I think they've, honestly, I think they've come a long way. Meta, Facebook, I think they've come a long Way I watched it, the man was very impressive. I watched it, actually. I watched it on Facebook.
- [47:31]
Sagar
Fox.
- [47:31]
Donald Trump
I'm not allowed to say that. Say it.
- [47:34]
Ryan Grim
Do you think he's directly responding to the threats that you have made to.
- [47:37]
Emily
Him in the past?
- [47:38]
Donald Trump
Yeah, probably.
- [47:40]
Emily
So, Ryan, this gets to exactly what we were just talking about, which is as this, like this, this better policy. Although I. I do wonder how Community Notes work is going to work on Facebook when the only people left on Facebook seem to be elderly. Sorry, no offense to everybody still on Facebook. It's not just the elderly, but it's. It sort of sounds like a sitcom waiting to happen. Like, give me a sitcom inside the community of, like, Wikipedia editors, except it's Facebook Community Notes.
- [48:10]
Ryan Grim
Yeah, I mean, I. I told our drop site team last night. I was like, look, if. If Zuckerberg is going to actually allow politics back onto Facebook and maybe even threads, then there's. We might as well post there again. Like, we don't even have dropsite. We don't even have a Facebook page, but we're gonna start one. Because you're like, it is a very boomer, heavy audience. But there are a lot of boomers.
- [48:33]
Emily
Yeah.
- [48:34]
Ryan Grim
And that's a big. It's an audience worth reaching if you can reach them. The reason we hadn't done it isn't because we hate boomers. It's because Zuckerberg was basically blocking anything interesting that, you know, that wasn't just, you know, fluff content right from getting shared.
- [48:50]
Emily
I'm actually going to share this post that Joel Kaplan, who is the new longtime Republican lobbyist, the head of their, like, global affairs public Global affairs outreach. It used to be Nick Clegg. Many people remember he wrote this as a supplement to what Zuckerberg said yesterday and actually talked exactly about what you talked about, Ryan, in that the policy at Facebook for a long time was actually to support suppress political content because they were under the impression that it's why it's not what people wanted to see sort of clogging up their news feeds on Facebook. And I think you're right that that actually probably sent a lot of younger people away from Facebook because the old saw about not talking about politics or religion, we actually like, as a people like to talk about politics and religion. It's healthy for us to talk about politics and religion. And yeah, we love to see everybody. Dogs and their puppies and their graduation pictures and their families and their babies and all of that, but you can also do that in text groups and all of that other stuff now. So they said that they are going to stop suppressing political content, that they realize people want to do that. So they didn't actually just roll out this fact checking program or this, this, the death of the fact checking program, which has wide consequences because obviously they used to partner with all of these third parties that actually got money for being part of the program. You know, traditional news outlets, things like PolitiFact and there were others, you know, even I think the Daily Caller was like the one conservative group, other than the Dispatch, which I don't really count, that cooperated in all of this. But they also say they're going to allow more speech and a personalized approach to political content. They noted. So quite a, quite a significant reversal, not just on those third party fact checkers, which is very significant in and of itself, but actually on everything political, for basically on everything political, which was pretty interesting.
- [50:49]
Krystal
Ryan.
- [50:50]
Ryan Grim
Yeah. Yeah.
- [50:51]
Emily
Well, let's turn to this, this post from Glenn, because just as we were talking about sort of the realignment implications of this, I thought it was worth bringing in Glenn here. He says it's hard to overstate how angry and upset Brazilian officials like this are. He has a post from Joel Brandt that he's, quote, tweeting along with other supporters of its secret due process free judicial censorship scheme about Zuckerberg's announcement. The Meta CEOs announcement gutted the core weapons of speech suppression. And he's absolutely right about that. It did. And he's pointing out that people on the left are angry about it. Now, Brian Stelter didn't sound angry to me. Maybe frustrated is a good way to put it. But there are some people who are flat out angry about this, especially Ryan, people who had been using threads and saw that as an escape from X. So it's like a test for the left.
- [51:45]
Ryan Grim
I think threads, at least as far as I can tell, lost basically all of its momentum, specifically because it was refusing to allow politics and news into the feedback and because it was insisting on not doing anything remotely chronological. So whenever you would log in, it would just give you what it thought would be the most interesting thing to you, even if it was 7 days old or 25 days old. And so the people who wanted news out of a social feed went over to Blue Sky. The liberals went over to Blue sky much more than threads. And Blue sky has really outpaced threads, at least culturally among liberals. Who knows if this change in threads will pull people in because it has the scale, it has millions of people in there because of their connection to Facebook and Instagram, but it might be so trash that it's impossible. Now the flip side of Glenn's point is an interesting one. Curious your take on this. I think it was alone with Mizrahi who I saw, maybe it was Arnaud Bertrand on Twitter. Somebody was saying that the same way that Democrats have used democracy promotion to intervene imperially in other countries internal affairs and push an American hegemonic agenda, they worry that Republicans are now going to use free speech as its wedge to get into other countries internal domestic politics and drive their own political agenda in another country. So that free speech will be a fig leaf for American intervention in just the same way that democracy promotion was a fig leaf for American intervention for Democrats. In other words, you would come in and take on the EU or take on a Brazilian center left around their speech policies. But what you're actually trying to do is regime change, overthrow the government and put in a different government which just as in the mirror example of democracy promotion, doesn't actually care about democracy, doesn't actually care about free speech, is actually just trying to implement an allied right wing agenda. And so you should kind of just use those, use those aspirational values along the way. Hopefully that's not what we end up seeing. But I think it's something to be on the lookout for.
- [54:25]
Emily
It's definitely something to be on the lookout for because it's being talked about in those kinds of spaces right now. And you know, honestly it could be. There's an argument that it's for the better. Like if we're pushing other countries to adopt juster standards of free speech, it's still imperialism, but we're going to be doing the imperialism no matter what.
- [54:44]
Ryan Grim
Human rights and democracy and yeah, we're not everybody's for human rights. Human rights are great.
- [54:51]
Emily
Yeah. The one thing we're, we're not going to do is stop the like coercive. We're not going to stop doing that. So if it's for like, if we can get better speech policies out of the UK or Canada or some countries that do have terrifying speech policies that hopefully are not canaries in the coal mine for the United States, then I'm all for it. But it's exactly going to test the argument that we were just talking about with Lina Khan where the right got really uncomfortable with some of this coercive imperialism, the sort of soft power. And this could test it in the exact same way. I think you're right, Ryan, that it's something to be on the lookout for.
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Ryan Grim
Yeah, just be clear eyed about what we're doing while we're doing it.
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Ahmed Khan
Inside you two wolves are locked in battle. One thrives on fear and anger and doubt. The other, courage, wisdom and love. Every decision, every moment feeds one of them. Which wolf are you feeding? I'm Eric Zimmer, host of the One youe Feed. I've been there. Homeless, addicted and lost. I know the power of small choices to turn your life around. On this podcast, I sit down with thinkers, leaders and survivors to uncover what it takes to feed the good wolf.
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Ryan Grim
This podcast saved you me. It's like having a guide for the.
- [56:52]
Nikki Glaser
Hardest parts of life.
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Ahmed Khan
The wolves are hungry. What will you feed them? Listen to the one you feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Krystal
2025 is bound to be a fascinating year. It's going to be filled with money, challenges and opportunities.
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Joel
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Krystal
And we're the hosts of How To Money Money. We want to be with you every step of the way in your financial journey this year, offering the information and insights you need to thrive financially.
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Joel
Yeah, whether you find yourself up to your eyeballs in student loan debt or you've got a sky high credit card balance because you went a little overboard with the holiday spending, or maybe you're looking to optimize your retirement accounts so you can retire early. Well, how to Money will help you to change your relationship with money so you you can stress less and grow your net worth.
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Krystal
That's right. How to Money comes out three times a week, Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. For money advice without the judgment and jargon, listen to how to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [57:58]
Ryan Grim
The fight over TikTok is coming down to the wire. A new buyer is now jumping into the fray. Let's play this.
- [58:07]
Ahmed Khan
And then midday 12:05 Trump will be.
- [58:12]
Ryan Grim
Who we have to work with.
- [58:13]
Ahmed Khan
To close the deal in the months ahead. So I wanted to let him know.
- [58:19]
Donald Trump
As well as others in his cabinet that we're doing this and we're going.
- [58:25]
Ahmed Khan
To need their help.
- [58:26]
Ryan Grim
So this is Kevin O'Leary, a right wing businessman from Canada, which is still currently a sovereign country to the north of the United States, but may at some point be another state in the United States. Either way, as you saw, he's a shark tank guy, ally of Trump, and coming in at the last moment to try to rescue TikTok from potentially being banned if the sale is not successfully forced and if the Supreme Court does not give it some reprieve. So Emily, what's the latest here?
- [59:04]
Emily
Yeah, so just to be clear on the timeline, that that law that was signed last year in April means that TikTok needs to be sold by January 19th to a US buyer. So January 19th, you will note, is.
- [59:19]
Ryan Grim
The day it's obviously not a U.S. buyer. Right. It's like a non, a U.S. company, somebody from China, Russia, Iran and some other like, like places that we consider adversaries because otherwise Trump would have to hurry up and make Canada a state before January 19th.
- [59:38]
Emily
Well, I don't know if Kevin O'Leary.
- [59:40]
Ryan Grim
Is going to be able to be a qualified buyer.
- [59:42]
Emily
That's an interesting point because I don't know if Kevin O'Leary is actually an American citizen or whether he's negotiating on behalf of an American company that he has a stake in, something like that. There's also a billionaire, Frank McCourt who's been making moves to try and conservative billionaire to try and buy TikTok. January 19th is the day before Donald Trump's inauguration. That is when TikTok is set to be banned and Trump has said he's got a warm spot for TikTok. The Supreme Court is considering a Trump backed effort to overturn the U.S. court of Appeals decision to uphold the law that Joe Biden signed on Friday. So those arguments are happening on Friday, the deadline. So that's the 10th, the deadline is the 19th. So this is all playing out. TikTok is right now and people can understand why. This is the Axios tear sheet. Ryan is now sending people to, what's it called, Lemon 8 because they're panicked. They don't know that this is actually going to work out at all because they're, I mean if they lose control of the company, obviously they're losing a lot of power, they're losing a lot of revenue. ByteDance is based in Beijing. Obviously they still have other revenue streams that are very powerful. This one is extremely powerful, though, and they would like to keep a slice of it at the very least ahead of what could be transpiring. Now, it's possible the Supreme Court does not decide in Trump's favor in favor of people who are trying to prevent this from happening. That's actually, we don't really have a clear indication of where the Supreme Court is going to go on this at all. Now, a lot of people have said, if you look at what happened with the US Court of Appeals, it's unlikely that the conservative court is going to change it just based on, you know, the arguments that they found the Court of Appeals find.
- [61:41]
Ahmed Khan
Well, they basically rejected.
- [61:43]
Ryan Grim
Like, they upheld the law. Right, Right. Yeah.
- [61:45]
Emily
They upheld the law because it was passed through the democratic process. I mean, it was something that was done by Congress, signed by the president. And that's going to be a persuasive argument, probably, and maybe it should be a persuasive argument. That's. And what's important is not to conflate that, you know, there are a lot of laws that we might like that go through that process and are fine, but it's important not to conflate that with whether or not the bill was a good idea. And, you know, even as somebody who's been pretty sympathetic to the idea of banning TikTok, you and I have talked about this before for different reasons. That bill was horrible. It was like a deep state power grab, essentially for the reasons that you just talked about in terms of naming our foreign adversaries and ways that it could be, the power could be expanded sort of Patriot act type of manner to suddenly, like, have government control. I mean, we already have a lot of that. But anyway, all this is to say that's a separate. What the Supreme Court does is a separate argument, for one, what, whether that original bill was good. And that's a separate argument in and of itself from whether it's good to ban TikTok.
- [62:47]
Ryan Grim
Yeah. And ByteDance also owns lemonade, which would mean by the strictures of that law that was passed, it would. It would also be banned. ByteDance seems to think that because it's much lower profile, it might be able to slip through. And I think also they're being smart. They're thinking, if we're. If we're going to lose access to this site, to this app, TikTok very soon, we should use the app while we have it to drive as many people to something that we'll still control after this. Because presumably, if they do ink a deal to offload TikTok to an American or a Canadian buyer, then they will leave at lemonade alone because it's not a significant threat and if they've boosted the value of it in the meantime, that'd be an advantage to them. But the reason I've always thought that this, this won't actually come to pass is that, you know, the Deep state had wanted to ban TikTok for a very long time. It was only after October 7 that they were able to get enough congressional buy in to pass the law through Congress and get the President to sign it. Because members of Congress and members of the establishment and both parties were horrified not at the images that were coming out of Gaza, but at the fact that young people were able to see the images that were coming out of Gaza and were repelled by them and were in opposition to the genocidal assault that they were seeing. Mitt Romney. And we played the clip here on the program, if you remember, like six months ago or whenever it passed, said very explicitly the reason that, that the Congress wants to ban TikTok is because it was generating images out of Gaza that was making it difficult to continue to unapologetically support Israel's war effort. He straight up said it on stage with Antony Blinken who acknowledged and agreed that TikTok was making the US support for Israel that much more difficult. So the reason I think it won't come to pass is that the genocide is nearly complete. Like the depopulation is complete and almost almost complete in northern Gaza, 90 plus percent of people have been dislocated from their homes. The Gaza Strip is effectively uninhabitable, yet continues to be inhabited. And so Israel and the US won. And so at that point it doesn't matter if the public is able to see what's going on via TikTok. So that's why I think that they will end up getting a reprieve. Now they may also cobble together this deal and O'Leary or somebody else might wind up with it. Which presents a wild situation where, where you end up having so much of the media in explicitly right wing hands, like Elon Musk, an active partisan with the Republican Party. At this point, Fox News, the biggest cable channel, is active, an active partisan. And then the broadcast networks to its right are, they're not trivial anymore. Those are significant. MSNBC completely collapsing. CNN is a disaster. And then if you also have TikTok owned by an explicit right wing person, not just a billionaire who has billionaire tendencies, but somebody who's a partisan conservative like O'Leary. It sets up extraordinarily difficult situation for the center left and left.
- [66:46]
Emily
This gets back to the point about what that Lina Khan made on CNBC recently about just having an economy structured in a way that these platforms are so powerful they rival government power, significantly rival government power and are under the control of a CEO with this massive swath of the discourse about politics under their sway at any given moment. And what's interesting, Ryan, is the reason I think the deep State still cares a lot about TikTok Israel side is China and what they want to do. Really the reason that they want this sold to a US entity. I mean, I think there's some very legitimate reasons for wanting that, and we've talked about some of those before. But I think they also want, want TikTok to function in the way that Twitter and X, I'm sorry, X and Meta do, which is they'll give you access if you are trying to spy on Americans. They will share the data. They will, or Google is another example. They will cooperate. You will have a way to, to access it. If you're in the FBI or CIA or whatever, you'll have better. You don't have to go ask Beijing for data. And you know, TikTok would, it's kind of interesting because TikTok would say, well, we're, we're all functioning in America anyway. But they, that's not necessarily true. But anyway, all this is to say, I think, you know, the benefit for the quote unquote deep state of having TikTok owned by a US entity is, is more spy powers for them to snoop on Americans domestically. So whether or not there's good reasons for wanting it not to be spy powers for just Beijing, different question.
- [68:35]
Ryan Grim
Meanwhile, do you notice that Lev Parnas's kid has blown up on TikTok the last couple days? Just doing, he's doing like one minute news reports. He's up to like one and a half, 2 million followers in like just weeks. It's the funniest thing ever. Like what, what is Lev Parnas's kid doing on delivering news to people on TikTok?
- [68:53]
Emily
Also, I'm, I'm told that Taylor Armstrong is going viral on TikTok for the baby. There's no play meme that Real Housewives Bravo fans of us have known about for like a decade. Plus, Taylor Armstrong is famously the woman who's yelling at the cat in the meme from the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. But now she's going viral again. So you never know what pops out of TikTok.
- [69:15]
Ryan Grim
It's a global and national treasure. It must be protected.
- [69:18]
Emily
There you have it, from Ryan Grimm. All right, Ryan, let's move on to congestion pricing in New York.
- [69:25]
Ahmed Khan
Inside, you two wolves are locked in battle. One thrives on fear and anger and doubt. The other, courage, wisdom, and love. Every decision, every moment feeds one of them. Which wolf are you feeding? I'm Eric Zimmer, host of the one you feed. I've been there, home, addicted and lost. I know the power of small choices to turn your life around. On this podcast, I sit down with thinkers, leaders, and survivors to uncover what it takes to feed the good wolf.
- [70:07]
Ryan Grim
This podcast saved me. It's like having a guide for the.
- [70:11]
Nikki Glaser
Hardest parts of life.
- [70:13]
Ahmed Khan
The wolves are hungry. What will you feed them? Listen to the one you feed on the I Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [70:25]
Krystal
2025 is bound to be a fascinating year. It's going to be filled with money, challenges and opportunities. I'm Joel.
- [70:32]
Joel
Oh, and I am Matt.
- [70:33]
Krystal
And we're the hosts of how to Money. We want to be with you every step of the way in your financial journey this year, offering the information and insights you need to thrive financially.
- [70:43]
Joel
Yeah, whether you find yourself up to your eyeballs in student loan debt or you've got a sky high credit card balance because you went a little overboard with the holiday spending, or maybe you're looking to optimize your retirement accounts so you can retire early. Well, how to Money will help you to change your relationship with money so you can stress less and grow your net worth.
- [71:03]
Krystal
That's right. How to Money comes out three times a week, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. For money advice without the judgment and jargon, listen to how to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [71:17]
Nikki Glaser
Hey, it's Nikki Glaser. I'm not here to roast you. I'm here to overshare everything that went down at the Golden Globes last Sunday. Everyone is already talking about what happened on air at the Golden Globes, but you are going to hear about what happened off air from the horse's mouth. Yes, I'm the horse. Me, Nikki Glaser. Join me on my podcast, the Nikki Glaser Podcast, where I will be telling you all the details. I can finally relax with my besties, my listeners, and dish. What happened backstage, what went down, the things people are already talking about, the things that people should be talking about. I've got it all. From what it took to prep for the Golden Globes to the behind the scenes of the Golden Globes. What went down in the rehearsals, who said what at the after party, who I saw at the after party, who was dancing with who. I'm gonna spill it all. Secrets will be revealed. You do not want to miss this episode. Listen to the Nikki Glaser podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [72:11]
Emily
Well, congestion pricing is officially in effect in New York City as of this week. As of the fifth, actually. So we're a couple of days into it, which means we have the benefit of seeing all kinds of reactions. Now here's just a quick map that was posted the day before it went into effect in Manhattan. So this is From Morning Brew NYC congestion SOLS chart toll start tomorrow. That was the fifth for motorists entering Manhattan at 60th street or below. Cars SUV's, pickups $9 Non commuter buses 1440 Big rigs 2160 Motorcycles 450 the MTA wants to raise $15 billion for mass transit improvements and ease gridlock. So this is the congestion relief zone. If you're not super familiar with New York, it's basically that part of Manhattan. I mean, this sounds obvious, but it's like the most congested. It shows their west side highway excluded. It goes all the way down to the southernmost tip, FDR Drive excluded. Those are those break room boundaries. But in the middle there, man, that is affecting a whole lot of people, Ryan, and raises some fascinating questions about class and all of that. So let me run a video here of one man. This is a man on the street. That was done. Ryan, you actually posted the a couple of days ago. Let's take a listen to this. Man on the street.
- [73:33]
Sagar
$9 each day that you pass 60th Street. And while I disagree with it for many reasons, for me in particular, it.
- [73:44]
Ryan Grim
Really hits home because I live right.
- [73:47]
Sagar
Here on 61st street in this building and my car is right there parked in front of my building. And if I want to go to turn around to go uptown to visit my kids who live on 79th Street.
- [74:01]
Ryan Grim
I have to pay $9 to go around the block because this is a one way street and that's a one.
- [74:07]
Sagar
Way street and that's a one way street. And there's no way for me to get uptown without going around the block and paying $9. And I think something has to be sorted out for Manhattan residences.
- [74:17]
Emily
Ryan, that's quite an interesting clip because it gets to the class dynamics here. What? You posted this yourself, so tell us what you mean.
- [74:28]
Ryan Grim
Yeah, I mean, there's a couple interesting dynamics here. First of all, the real estate where that guy is standing is some of the most expensive in the entire world. So this is not a work. It's very unlikely. And I think actually somebody found this guy's like a pretty rich dude. So like, set that aside. But the reason the news camera was there, the same reason when I did my man on the street interview, they were standing outside the emergency department and grabbing people coming out of the hospital.
- [75:01]
Emily
Yes. We missed Ryan on Sky News. He went viral. I think you actually went viral on TikTok. On TikTok on X.
- [75:07]
Ryan Grim
They were looking for people angry at the healthcare system and insurance industry. They went to 60th street and 61st street here because that's where the line is. And so, yes, like it, you know, whenever there's a line, it's gonna suck for the people who are like, you know, five feet from it. And what he's saying is like, in order to go north, I actually have to go south, go one block over and then go north and boom, now I had to bing through it. The other funny thing though is that, okay, it's kind of, that is kind of a funny predicament that the guy is in that just because of where he is, he's gonna get dinged every possible time. And you know what, if he has a good alderman or whatever, a good city councilman, everybody in that block can get half off. Whatever. I don't care. What's funny though, they're talking like 18 blocks. It's a 20 minute walk. This is not a long distance. And the point of living, a point of living in a city like Manhattan is that it is walkable, that you can get places by foot. And that's good for you, it's good for the planet, it's good for your kids to do that walk. So that guy is not for any of the arguments, kind of a sympathetic character there, but I think there are some more sympathetic arguments that we should entertain and see if we can grapple with.
- [76:34]
Emily
Yeah, let's take a look at this headline. This is from the New York Post. Map shows congestion pricing will cost up to $27 to drive int Manhattan. Firefighters, teachers and businesses can't afford it. So here's the map and if you're looking at it, it's similar to the first map we showed, but it actually gets even more specific about if you're commuting through particular Points in New York City. If you're super familiar with New York, it'll make sense to you. Brooklyn Bridge, Manhattan Bridge, Williamsburg Bridge. You can see some of these exact pricing for, for different folks. Toll by plate versus toll by easy pass. This is really expensive. Like actually, this is really, really expensive. I saw one man on the street interview with a guy who was just a, like a blue collar worker who was coming, he was commuting into the city and so it would cost him an extra $200 a month if he didn't start taking the subway. The subway, of course, is not something that a lot of people who aren't using it regularly want to start using right now because there's fare evasion that leads to some, you know, unfortunate experiences with law enforcement. There's also, like we just saw last week, the horrifying video of a man who somehow miraculously survived after being pushed onto the platform as a train was coming on by someone who's just doing it for the hell of it. Seemingly the woman who was burned alive as passersby were helpless. And some of them may have been able to do something, but didn't. Law enforcement didn't do much at all. Everyone has seen these images and people are not keen to leave the safety of their vehicles. And I say that, you know, safety not, you know, being. Not in terms of car crashes, which are obviously very significant there as well and everywhere. But putting themselves vulnerable onto the, the subway is something a lot of people don't want to do, especially you know, when they, it was previously they had organized their commutes around budgets that were totally doable for them, and now the city is asking them to pay more money. When. Let me just share this next screen and get your thoughts on this. Ryan, you had Uber and Lyft spending millions of dollars pushing for the congestion pricing because it helps them while it doesn't help other people. I think that's pretty interesting. This is New York posting. They put millions of dollars into efforts to legalize the congestion tolling and they stand to be among the biggest winners. They hired top lobbyists to help persuade key state and city officials to approve the controversial levy, including Governor Kathy Hochul and the mta. So that brings us into interesting perspective as well. I'm curious what you make of it, Ryan.
- [79:16]
Ryan Grim
Yeah, so Uber and Lyft lobbying for this and getting a sweetheart deal out of it where it's cheaper for them, you know, and it, and it makes it easier for them to compete. That's BS and they ought to. That shouldn't be the case. I think the opponents there have a very reasonable argument because not only are they getting a sweetheart deal, then there's going to be less congestion and they're going to be able to zip around more. On the other hand, people who use Ubers and Lyfts pretty frequently are going to benefit from that because their trips will be, will be quicker. There's a kind of a chicken and egg problem here that the city is trying to address. To your point about the subway being trash, I lived there about 20 years ago or so and I used to take the subway to work. And people who live in New York have a real fondness for and defensiveness around its subway and all the character that it has. But it's also compared to other major cities, particularly around the world and even in the US it's trash compared to a lot of them. And it should be a lot better. This is supposed to be the greatest city in the world and it definitely does not have the greatest subway system or not even probably in the top 100. And so in order to upgrade that, that they're trying to come up with money through this congestion pricing scheme. And so it's going to push people to use a system that is not yet upgraded. But if you don't do something like this, then it never gets upgraded and people have both over congested traffic and a completely degrading subway system. So the low income, there's a low income discount that has been worked into the law, which is just woefully, I think, inadequate. If you have a gross income of $60,000 or less, you're able to get half off of your fare, but only after your first 10 trips. And I think the 60,000 is pretty absurd. Most people who are coming into New York, the reason they're driving into New York is because they're making a little bit more than that. But it's still extraordinarily difficult to live in New York on say 70 or live in the New York area on even 70 or, or $80,000. Especially if then all of your, you know, you're spending hundreds, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of dollars on tolls and fares.
- [81:51]
Emily
So they really is extremely high.
- [81:54]
Ryan Grim
They really should have made that discount a lot more generous and make it easier, make it easier for the middle class to get. But if it works, and this is the argument that I would make to people who, who don't want to pay it, but are end up paying it because they don't live near transit and it's just not feasible for them to use the transit. Like look, if you actually shave off a half an hour of your commute each way and let's say you make $40 an hour, you make $30 an hour. If you shave off an hour of that, that's $30 or $40 that you not to get too economics bro or neoliberal. But people's time is valuable. And so if it works, and that's a huge if, so far we're seeing it working. So far we're seeing that commutes, traffic does seem to be moving faster. Let us know in the comments if you live in New York and if you've been driving around the city, what your experience has been. But if you can actually save that time, time is money. You could actually, you know, you could work an extra hour on your shift if you can, if you can get those hours or you have an hour or you have an extra hour to yourself a day, which, you know. Is that worth $9 to you to a lot of people? I think it would be. Especially if that money is then going into improving the subway system in the long run.
- [83:28]
Emily
The obvious benefit while we're doing the sort of advantages and disadvantages, pros and cons is also for emergency vehicles is a serious problem in New York that when traffic's not moving and you need to get ambulances through, that's a significant reason just in and of itself to start thinking about how to deal with congestion. But I just think what sucks and this is not just New York based, but New York in particular where people are, the cost of living is really high and people are taxed to hell and have been for years. It's like you're punishing them, you're punishing them for the city's mismanagement of their own taxpayer dollars. And people have organized their lives over the course of years around commutes that work for their budget, that work for their schedule. And so the sudden like it just feels like a punishment for people who have been dutifully like paying their taxes for years and now because the, like the, the reason the subway is a disaster, it's not really just because, you know, they, they lack resources, they lack resources, financial resources because of the mismanagement. It's in a complete vicious cycle right now. People have been paying into the system and it just again, it's going to, it's, it's going to. It's one of those things that just is going to. The middle class is going to bear the brunt of it, which obviously sucks.
- [84:49]
Ryan Grim
Although. Meanwhile, Dave Weil pointed out a really fascinating class dynamic in the New York Post coverage of the I don't know if you saw this, but the they the Post was writing about drivers who were cleverly evading the fare because, you know, people have different tricks. You put this gloss on your license plate, which is illegal, but if you can get away with it, nobody sees it, then the camera can't catch your license plate or other tricks to like, not get nailed. With this fair, he's like, I've searched the New York Post and was unable to find any articles celebrating the cleverness of subway fare evaders. That to them is like a cover story worthy crime. But a driver who evades the fare, that person is clever and an American hero. And it does go back to this on an unspoken assumption that car culture is just better because who built the subway? The public built the subway. Who built the roads? The public built the roads. But there's this belief that one of them, just by natural right, ought to be free and the other one ought to cost people money. And that if you're and if you're stealing one, you're a hero for stealing the other, you're a villain. And if you peel it back, there's no philosophical, logical, political rationale for the argument that different transportation modes that were both funded by the public should be treated so radically different. So not in the Post.
- [86:32]
Emily
Yeah, I think that's a great point.
- [86:35]
Ahmed Khan
Inside you, two wolves are locked in battle. One thrives on fear and anger and doubt. The other, courage, wisdom, and love. Every decision, every moment feeds one of them. Which wolf are you feeding? I'm Eric Zimmer, host of the One youe Feed. I've been there. Homeless, addicted, and lost. I know the power of small choices to turn your life around. On this podcast, I sit down with thinkers, leaders and survivors to uncover what it takes to feed the good wolf.
- [87:17]
Ryan Grim
This podcast saved me. It's like having a guide for the.
- [87:21]
Nikki Glaser
Hardest parts of life.
- [87:23]
Ahmed Khan
The wolves are hungry. What will you feed them? Listen to the one you feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you feed. Get your podcasts.
- [87:34]
Krystal
2025 is bound to be a fascinating year. It's going to be filled with money, challenges and opportunities. I'm Joel.
- [87:42]
Emily
Ooh.
- [87:42]
Joel
And I am Matt.
- [87:43]
Krystal
And we're the hosts of how to Money. We want to be with you every step of the way in your financial journey this year, offering the information and insights you need to thrive financially.
- [87:52]
Sagar
Yeah.
- [87:53]
Joel
Whether you find yourself up to your eyeballs in student loan debt, or you've got a sky high credit card balance because you went a little overboard with the holiday spending. Or maybe you're looking to optimize your retirement accounts so you can retire early. Well, how to Money will help you to change your relationship with money so you can stress less and grow your net worth.
- [88:13]
Krystal
That's right. How to Money comes out three times a week, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. For money advice without the judgment and jargon, listen to how to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [88:26]
Nikki Glaser
Hey, it's Nikki Glaser. I'm not here to roast you. I'm here to overshare everything that went down at the Golden Globes last Sunday. Everyone is already talking about what happened on air at the Golden Globes, but you are going to hear about what happened off air from the horse's mouth. Yes, I'm the horse. Me, Nikki Glaser. Join me on my podcast, the Nikki Glaser Podcast, where I will be telling you all the details I can finally reach. Relax with my besties, my listeners and dish. What happened backstage? What went down? The things people are already talking about, the things that people should be talking about. I've got it all. From what it took to prep for the Golden Globes to the behind the scenes of the Golden Globes. What went down in the rehearsals, who said what at the after party, who I saw at the after party, who was dancing with who. I'm gonna spill it. All secrets will be revealed. You do not want to miss this episode. Listen to the Nikki Glaser podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [89:20]
Ryan Grim
So President Donald Trump has promised hell on earth if there isn't a hostage deal by the time he's sworn into office. Meanwhile, over at Dropsite News, we've gotten a statement from Hamas appealing directly to President Trump. I'll read some of that. Hamas spokesperson says we believe we can reach an agreement immediately if Netanyahu and his government stop their stalling and obstructing the deal. We are ready to proceed with an agreement immediately that guarantees a permanent ceasefire, the withdrawal of all Israeli forces from the Gaza Strip, the return of displaced people to their homes without restrictions, a serious prisoner exchange deal from both sides, and the immediate launch of a comprehensive relief and reconstruction process for Gaza. Therefore, we look forward to President Trump and his team exerting pressure on Netanyahu and his government to move forward with the deal before his inauguration. Now, this Comes just as there's news being reported by Reuters and others that when it comes to that post reconstruction or post deal reconstruction process, the uae, which is a very, very close ally of Trump himself and the Trump family, has said that it would take a lead in kind of overseeing with the U.S. security and Reconstruction until a reformed Palestinian Authority could start taking control in Gaza. Now, what's interesting about this is several things. One, the US Having some role insecurity and reconstruction in Gaza suggests boots on the ground. Like, how does, you know, how would the US Play a role in security without boots on the ground? I guess one possibility would be just financing it and sending enormous amounts of weapons and money so that the UAE can hire Colombian mercenaries to patrol Gaza. So it remains to be seen what those details are. But what's also interesting is that the Gulf countries had been insisting that a pathway to statehood was essential for their involvement in a post conflict reconstruction. If these reports are accurate, that would suggest that the UAE at least is backing off of, of that piece of the deal. As Saudi Arabia and Israel are continuing their talks towards normalization, where Saudi is insisting on some type of language about a pathway to statehood being included, or there won't be normalization, I guess. When we were last speaking a couple weeks ago, before the Christmas and New Year's break, there were, there was a lot of talk that a deal was just moments away from being inked. Trump putting the January 20th deadline on it to me has always meant that Netanyahu will take every day that's available. It's January 8th. That's at least 12 days that he has a free hand to strike Gaza. And the airstrikes have, have heated up, they've expanded, they've been almost around the clock, according to people in Gaza. So I would not expect him to strike a deal a moment before he's absolutely forced to by Donald Trump. But let's play a little bit from Trump to get a flavor of how he, how he's framing, you know, his, his approach to this.
- [93:24]
Emily
And these are comments from his press conference yesterday that we, we played some clips earlier in the show on other things, but he was asked by everyone different questions and touched on Israel here.
- [93:36]
Ryan Grim
Yes, here you go.
- [93:37]
Sagar
That all hell must be paid if they don't release the hostages.
- [93:40]
Donald Trump
Well, do I have to define it for you? Look, all hell will break up if those hostages aren't back. I don't want to hurt your negotiation. If they're not back by the time I get into office, all hell will break out in the Middle East.
- [93:53]
Ryan Grim
Can you elaborate?
- [93:54]
Donald Trump
And it will not be good for Hamas, and it will not be good, frankly, for anyone. All hell will break out. I don't have to say anymore, but that's what it is.
- [94:02]
Ryan Grim
So there's some real gallows humor going on in Gaza. And we're going to talk to Ahmed Khan, who was in Gaza recently. He was telling me that when he was there. Trump made similar comments. All hell will break loose. And everyone universally that he spoke to is like, does he have any idea what's going on here? Like, what would that look like? And it goes from a rhetorical question to an actual question where it's like, wait a minute, what would hell on earth look like if it wasn't this? Which is, you know, starvation, you know, rampant disease, it's cold at night, you're living in tents, Your tents are flooding and airstrikes are continuing relentlessly, like. And all the hospitals are shut down. Like, what? So if that's the status quo, what's hell look like?
- [94:59]
Emily
I think, you know, Hamas, in a strange way, has some leverage with Donald Trump in that respect, because, yeah, they've.
- [95:08]
Ryan Grim
Taken hell off the table by already bringing it to Gaza.
- [95:12]
Emily
There's that. There's also that Trump doesn't want. He wants to be the guy who looks like he secured a deal. And so if he has to get to a deal, that means he needs Hamas's cooperation. So does he want to escalate beyond what you just described, Ryan, and be the guy who was behind what he already described for Netanyahu, what, six months ago as a public relations problem? Does he want to be overseeing that? Or does Hamas have, I guess, some real leverage? And they want a deal, and Trump wants a deal. He wants to be the guy who solved the problem, ended the conflict, and secured what he will say is peace. Whether it's lasting is dubious, but that does actually sort of give Hamas, their position, some leverage going into a Trump administration.
- [96:13]
Ryan Grim
Yeah. And over at the Dropsite News Twitter account, you can find a report from Israeli media that a May document that was approved by Netanyahu's cabinet that describing the terms that they would agree to for a ceasefire, was leaked to the Israeli media. And it's consistent, effectively, with what Hamas is asking for and is consistent with what Israel is now expected to get from an upcoming ceasefire, if one really happens. And actually, I have this right here. So think about that. This is may. The hostages have been held since May. Some, many, perhaps, have died since then. To get nothing extra, to get an agreement that was already on the table last May is such an extraordinary and fundamental failure when it comes to what the leader of a government's mission is, which is to protect their own people, their own citizens. If you're one of those hostage families, you're asking why, why is it now January and we're about to ink a deal potentially were going to ink a deal that was available to us in May. What did we achieve between May and January? And the answer can only be satisfaction of a lust for the complete and total destruction of Gaza as a habitable place because nothing else has improved from Israel's perspective and from the perspective of the hostages from May until January. Unless I'm missing something.
- [98:14]
Emily
So Trump, we may see something similar. If we see something like that in Israel, we may see something similar also in Ukraine, where there's still that's a.
- [98:27]
Ryan Grim
Deal that was available in February, March 2022, probably better actually, than will be available now.
- [98:35]
Emily
People will say what really changed is the seriousness of the negotiations. You have this presidential transition in the United States, and that changes the positions and the leverage that the dealmakers have. So that's the argument I'd expect to hear. But I think it's a valid point.
- [98:56]
Ryan Grim
Before we leave, let's just comment a little bit on some of the anti Blinken has been making the rounds and doing some exit interviews. He spoke with the New York Times here. Let me play a little bit of that to what has become the defining crisis of this era, which is the conflict in Gaza. You came in thinking you could broker a historic agreement between Saudi Arabia and Israel. And then Hamas attacked Israel on October 7th with the horrific results which we saw. And Israel's response has been extreme. The latest UN figures put the Palestinian death toll at 45,000. Over 90% of Gaza's population is now displaced. The population is starving. All hospitals have been destroyed. In November, a UN Committee released a report that found Israel's warfare practices, quote, consistent with the characteristics of genocide. I know you don't agree with that estimation, but do you believe that Israel's actions have been consistent with the rules of war? Let's step back for a second and think about where we were on October.
- [100:02]
Sagar
6Th and then where we were on.
- [100:03]
Ryan Grim
October 7th and where we've been since then. You're right. On October 6th, we were very much.
- [100:09]
Sagar
Pursuing normalization between Saudi Arabia and Israel.
- [100:12]
Ryan Grim
And in fact, I was scheduled to.
- [100:13]
Sagar
Go to Saudi Arabia and Israel on October 10th trip.
- [100:17]
Ryan Grim
Obviously that didn't, didn't happen because of the events of October 7th. But the purpose of that trip was to work on the Palestinian component of any normalization agreement between Saudi Arabia and.
- [100:28]
Sagar
Israel because we believed, and the Saudis also said it was usually important to.
- [100:34]
Ryan Grim
Make sure that if there was going.
- [100:35]
Sagar
To be normalization, there was also a.
- [100:37]
Ryan Grim
Pathway toward a Palestinian state. End it there for now because a lot of it from there is just him kind of humiliating himself by trying to present the world in a way that it just simply isn't. But that piece is interesting because what it it reveals is just how flawed the American strategy was that to ignore the Palestinian peace of a Mideast peace deal. Notice that he's saying on October 10th he's going to go to talk to Israel and Saudi Arabia about the Palestinian issue. Anybody who's hearing that and isn't completely absorbed in the propaganda here would be like, wait a minute, you're going to talk to Israel and Saudi Arabia about the Palestinians? What about the Palestinians? Going to talk to them about the Palestinians? Are they going to be involved in this conversation about them at all? And if they were involved in a serious way, then it's very difficult to imagine there's an October 7th. Hamas was very clear that one of the motivations for October 7th was that they felt like they were being written off of the historical stage, that they were being sidelined by the United States in an effort to normalize relations with Israel, normalize and effectively normalize the occupation and just, just keep the status quo in place indefinitely. And it was a, they described it as a version of a flip the table moment. And if that's the case, then that is a fundamental failure of the policy that was being carried out by all administrations, whether it's Biden, Trump and everybody since Clinton, effectively or actually maybe since Bush.
- [102:42]
Emily
I mean, what you heard Blinken just responding to from the New York Times there was totally unspoken, but it was him, like, embracing the Trump policy, doubling, tripling down on the Abraham Accord, Trump policy. I don't know that I agree that it's hard to imagine October 7th happening without the Abraham Accords, but I do agree that it's clearly pushed them to a flip the table moment. Doesn't in any way justify the flip the table moment, but I do agree that that's a component of it. And it makes me wonder, as many people are, whether Donald Trump.
- [103:13]
Ryan Grim
Right. It wouldn't be an absence of the Abraham Accords. You'd have to have real, genuine peace talks going on that everybody believed were serious. And if those were happening, my argument would be then there wouldn't have been an October 7th.
- [103:29]
Emily
Yeah, that's interesting.
- [103:31]
Ryan Grim
But I mean, Hamas would have to be bought into them as the power in Gaza. Gaza. And that's an. If that is impossible to conceive of because the purpose of Israel helping to prop up Hamas in Gaza was that. So those talks aren't happening.
- [103:48]
Emily
I mean, the Hamas charter, which was changed from obviously to just talk about the Israel, like the foundational principle of Israel's existence. I think there's an ideological part there, an ideological component there that makes it, I think, likely that, you know, an October 7th could happen sort of at any given moment until there's something. That's why peace talks are always so.
- [104:14]
Ryan Grim
Depressing, because there's, it's interesting how an organization like Hamas can get, get its hand forced. You know, it wasn't because they never necessarily had a change of heart that they changed their charter. And I think it was 2017 to embrace it, to embrace a two state deal, is that there was public pressure from Palestinians, that's a good point, to move in that direction. Which then led to the 2018, the Great March of Return, which was these nonviolent protests in Gaza that would march to the fence were organized by Gaza civil society and initially had an arm's length at best relationship with Hamas. Hamas saw them as not helpful to their and not part of their ideological project. Hamas, eventually, because they were so popular, had to come around for political reasons and kind of embrace them. Everybody knows how those ended. IDF troops outside of the fence shot something like 40,000 people, you know, unarmed people, almost all of them unarmed. And we're shooting for legs, you know, shooting people's legs for sport, as a UN report has laid out. And then with the collapse of that nonviolent movement, Hamas then has more political capital to organize toward a violent response.
- [105:42]
Emily
Yeah, what's interesting to me is does the Trump camp recognize that there's, there's something serious when Hamas says that Abraham, the Abraham Accords were a factor in sort of pushing them towards October 7th? Do they take that seriously? Do they believe that Hamas is sincere when they say that, or do they continue to think the Abraham Accords were the sort of triumph of US policy to Israel? And the answer to that is they continue to think the Abraham Accords were just sort of a, in an indisputed triumph. And that doesn't mean you can't recognize there were, you know, keeping Palestinians out of the loop had, you know, downstream consequences. But it doesn't seem like there is recognition of that. And so the, it's Actually, just, I think it's really hard to predict the particulars of Trump's Israel policy in this next administration. We can predict, obviously, the broad swath of it is, you know, like deep support. But what does it look like in practice? How does he influence negotiations? That I think is less easy to predict.
- [106:53]
Ryan Grim
Yeah. So we'll see. I think it's reasonable that we might actually get a cease fire deal right around the 19th or 20th. Whether it holds, I think, is a. Is a totally different question.
- [107:06]
Emily
Yeah.
- [107:06]
Ryan Grim
And what that looks like might be, it might be a deal on paper that Israel violates regularly. Like, if you notice, like, the Hezbollah Israel deal is getting very close to completely collapsing. But Israel has bombed Hezbollah dozens, scores, maybe hundreds of times since quote, unquote, ceasefire deal. So we'll see.
- [107:31]
Ahmed Khan
Inside you two wolves are locked in battle. One thrives on fear, fear and anger and doubt. The other, courage, wisdom and love. Every decision, every moment feeds one of them. Which wolf are you feeding? I'm Eric Zimmer, host of the One youe Feed. I've been there. Homeless, addicted, and lost. I know the power of small choices to turn your life around. On this podcast, I sit down with thinkers, leaders and survivors to uncover what it takes to feed the good wolf.
- [108:13]
Ryan Grim
This podcast saved me. It's like having a guide for the.
- [108:17]
Nikki Glaser
Hardest parts of life.
- [108:19]
Ahmed Khan
The wolves are hungry. What will you feed them? Listen to the one you feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you feed. Get your podcasts.
- [108:31]
Krystal
2025 is bound to be a fascinating year. It's going to be filled with money, challenges and opportunities. I'm Joel.
- [108:38]
Emily
Ooh.
- [108:39]
Joel
And I am Matt.
- [108:40]
Krystal
And we're the hosts of How To Money. We want to be with you every step of the way in your financial journey this year, offering the information and insights you need to thrive financially.
- [108:49]
Joel
Yeah, whether you find yourself up to your eyeballs in student loan debt or you've got a sky high credit card balance because you went a little overboard with the holiday spending, or maybe you're looking to optimize your retirement accounts so you can retire early. Well, How To Money will help you to change your relationship with money so you can stress less and grow your net worth.
- [109:10]
Krystal
That's right. How to Money comes out three times a week, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. For money advice without the judgment and jargon, listen to how to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [109:23]
Nikki Glaser
Hey, it's Nikki Glaser. I'm not here to Roast you. I'm here to overshare everything that went down at the Golden Globes last Sunday. Everyone is already talking about what happened on air at the Golden Globes, but you are going to hear about what happened off air from the horse's mouth. Yes, I'm the horse. Me, Nikki Glaser. Join me on my podcast, the Nikki Glaser Podcast, where I will be telling you all the details I can finally reach, relax with my besties, my listeners and dish. What happened backstage, what went down, the things people are already talking about, the things that people should be talking about. I've got it all, from what it took to prep for the Golden Globes to the behind the scenes of the Golden Globes, what went down in the rehearsals, who said what at the after party, who I saw at the after party, who was dancing with who. I'm gonna spill it all secrets will be revealed. You do not want to miss this episode. Listen to the Nikki Glaser podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.
- [110:17]
Ryan Grim
Up next, we're going to be joined by American philanthropist Ahmed Khan. Ahmed, thanks for joining us here. Really appreciate it.
- [110:24]
Sagar
Thanks, Ryan. Thanks, Emily.
- [110:25]
Ryan Grim
And so with you today, we want to talk about a couple of things. One, you were fairly recently in Gaza. You organized a shipment of humanitarian supplies into the strip and you went with your shipment or you went alongside your shipment. And we had promised our viewers at the time that we would get your take on. Like, how did you do that? How on earth did you pull that off? And also, what did you see that we're not seeing just through the images that we get out of Gaza? And we've also done some coverage of something else that you're working on, which is the need to get the tens of thousands of people who need critical medical care out of Gaza to places that are willing to take them in, whose lives are at risk at every moment that they're not being allowed to get that treatment. So I'll just start here by you had shared this. Here's one video of your trip. So tell us a little bit about where you are and what your impression was as you're getting here.
- [111:47]
Sagar
That's called the middle area of Gaza. KHAN YUNIS EL moasi There are a series of tented camps and you can see that it's children. And that's what you see everywhere in Gaza. You see children. You don't really see anything else. You see, see, you see children. This was a community building exercise and just sort of a Kids activity. Obviously the schools are all destroyed and they just try to keep the kids busy. So we just walked into it, the kids were dancing the Dubka Palestinian dance and there were various performers and sort of, we just came in to view it and you know, you're just overwhelmed by what these kids are experiencing. What they're experiencing is something no child should ever have to experience. And actually no child has experienced what they're experiencing. They live in tents almost every night of the year. They listen to 250 pound bombs, 500 pound bombs and sometimes 2000 pound bombs landing near them. They have friends that have been killed and they don't know when their time will be, but they just continue. So, you know, you can see them smiling and cheerful and it's almost amazing because none of these kids have had protein for a month or two and none of them have had. They mainly eat one time a week, one time a day, but they still smile. So you're struck by that.
- [113:16]
Ryan Grim
And is it bread? Like what's the thing that they're able to get?
- [113:22]
Sagar
For the most part, there really isn't anything that you can count on. It just depends on what the Israeli authorities will allow in. And it's sort of idiosyncratic. It just sort of happens, you know, sort of sometimes there'll be enough food in the markets and sometimes there won't. Sometimes the food will be very expensive in the markets and sometime it won't. So there's no rhyme or reason to any of it. You know, I sort of, I've told you, I think from the beginning that the, essentially the Israeli government has decided they don't necessarily want to kill everybody at once because they think it's probably not something they can get away with. But what they do is allow sort of the minimum calorie count in. So you know, people are just getting by on whatever, whatever's available that day. A lot of dry goods, you know, sort of canned can stuff. But it's, you know, it's nothing. I don't know, it's nothing anyone, you know, sort of any of your viewers would be comfortable with or I don't know how many people would survive in the US on this.
- [114:23]
Ryan Grim
And then I'll let Emily, let you jump in, but one question. So shortly. Yeah, shortly after October 7th, you had told me, as Israel unleashed its response, what you thought their plan was. And now here we are a year and a half later and it feels like everything is going according to the plan that you kind of thought that they were playing out at the time. And so I think that that kind of gives your assessment an extra layer of credibility because it's really been borne out the last year and a half. What did you see coming and what have you seen unfold?
- [115:04]
Sagar
Well, I think very clearly the Israeli government wants all Palestinians out. Right. Like, and they can't do it all at once. So they have created conditions that are unlivable and at some point and I, they will and I think all American officials are aware of this and probably all European officials are aware of this because it's just, it's pretty black and white. You know, they don't want to kill everybody, they just want everybody out. So they, they've killed plenty of people and people are living under horrible conditions and they just want to get rid of all Palestinians from Gaza and the west bank and sort of remake Judea and Samaria. And I think that's, you know, that's Prime Minister Netanyahu's plan. I mean just, it's just very clear. So I suppose now that will be up to President Trump to decide whether that's going to happen or not. You know, I don't know. Like, it's like a, there really aren't any world leaders who seem to, they've sort of been detached from any sort of empathy of the situation because what the situation inside, it's truly unlivable. I mean it's sort of bombs, non stop artillery, non stop F15s, F16s, F35s dropping massive bombs sort of every 15 minutes you're shaking the, you know, whatever, wherever you're staying. If you're in a tent, it's shaking. If you're in some kind of structure, it's shaking. And you know, the trauma is just unimaginable.
- [116:31]
Emily
If you were to, I'm sure you have but talk to American officials, let's say operating in good faith and tell them or persuade them that it is possible to not just provide the minimum calorie count but to bring in more food to make the situation for people of, in Gaza more livable while also protecting their security concerns. For instance, what would you tell them? How would you explain to them that it is possible to, to feed these children and, and also like just bring in more aid. Maybe you have had those conversations.
- [117:06]
Sagar
Yeah, I mean it is possible. I've done it in Ukraine. Right. Like so the, you know, the Russians don't bomb all the border crossings and they don't bomb all the food trucks. I think the, this administration just doesn't care. Right. Like so it's just not, you know, they'll, they'll just lying about. Every word out of their mouth is just lying. So I'm hope, I'm optimistic that maybe President Trump will not want to see these images and not want to see this, this situation and, you know, sort of burn babies and little kids in their tents sleeping and then, you know, sort of next thing you know, they're dead. You know, I don't know. But for, yeah, for American officials, let's say middle level American officials, yeah, I think they're all horrified by what's going on. They know what's going on. They see the briefings. But, you know, the decision makers in the Biden administration just don't care. You know, they're just, just very dishonest about all of it. They know exactly the numbers that have gone in. They know how many people. They know what it takes to keep these people fed and healthy. I mean, mean, you're looking at 1.1, 1.2 million children. It's over 50% of the population. What, what security risk do these little girls, you know, sort of hold against the Israelis? Like, you know, it's just, it's mind boggling all the, I try not to pay attention to the stuff that comes out of like sort of the armchair quarterbacks and the conference goers and, But I mean, it's all nonsense. Like, like, you know, I challenge all of them or any of them to come to Gaza and spend 48 hours, see if they, number one, make it out alive or number two, are still repeating these idiotic talking points about human shields and security and etc.
- [118:46]
Emily
Right. Or about, you know, smuggling things that can be turned into weapons through the food shipments. Or what's another example like the Hamas hoarding everything that gets into gaze a. From your perspective, you would say if you go on the ground, it's entirely possible for the United States to back humanitarian aid that's done in a way that gets to the children.
- [119:10]
Sagar
I mean, to be honest with you, I could do it myself, like, you know, with a sort of group of collaborators. I don't even need the United States government because they just make a mess of the whole situation. But yeah, it's not complex at all. There's nothing, don't let anyone tell you it's complex. I've done it. I've delivered humanitarian assistance to every war zone the last 25 years. It's, it's very doable. I mean, it's just, just a matter of whether you're going to, you know, kill Everybody delivering a humanitarian assistance. It's just a decision someone makes. But have you been in touch with anybody care about this? It would be done. It would be able. It would be easily done.
- [119:42]
Emily
Have you been in touch with any people in the incoming administration or tried to get.
- [119:47]
Sagar
I mean, no Trump had that really know anyone. I mean, like, I'm not, you know, I'm out here in the world. I'm not really just. I mean, it's sort of. Maybe my weakness is I don't. I don't go to cocktail parties or sleazy hotel bars and stuff. So, I mean, that's where all these people hang out. I guess they don't really run into me in places like the front line in Ukraine or Gaza or Syria, any of these places. You don't really see these kind of people around. So I don't know. You know, I try to get the message out.
- [120:16]
Ryan Grim
Can you give us some examples of. Because I've been following your attempt to like get this shipment in and some other shipments in over. Over months and months and months. Can you give people some examples of. Of the kind of holdups that you wound up getting along, along the way and what. Right.
- [120:36]
Sagar
So yeah, I mean, it's a good question. Essentially I made a decision, well, WFP is great on the food and that's their mandate and they do that. I sort of did a survey in Gaza and understood that, that there were specific medicines that were not getting into Gaza for whatever reason. And I decided to go and source them. And I purchased medicines around Europe and, you know, a few containers worth of medicines. And I've done this a few times. And there's a process through the Israeli government. It's the Israeli government agencies called cogat, which I think, you know, that everything has to go through cogat. So. So I apply through KOGAT and say, look, this is what I have. This is where I purchased it from, this is where it was made. This is how much it costs. This is how much each item is. This is what's in this box. This is what's in this box. And this is pallet number this. And everything has to be totally itemized and sort of they approve it. And then it's just a long process of getting the actual stuff physically in. So. So in my case one time I tried to send it over. You know, like I'm gonna somehow still optimistic to try to make things work. So on one of the shipments, I tried to send it over Jlotts, the joint logistics over the shore, which was the, the pier that the United States government tried to try it to work. Yeah. And. And it didn't. Yeah, it actually went and then was stuck by the next to the pier, and then the pier closed. And so then I had to look for another solution and wound up shipping it from Cyprus, where. Where the Jlots was based, to Ashdod, Israel. And then there's just a process like the ship, the stuff's on the ship. The ship has to be cleared to come into port. That's a few days. Then the ship, the stuff has to be cleared to unload off the port. That's another few days. And there's this sort of things, like it's. It's just not something that anyone is really taken too seriously in the United States government or really cares about, to be honest with you, because, you know, this is all urgent stuff.
- [122:44]
Ryan Grim
Any of that normal when it comes to humanitarian relief?
- [122:49]
Sagar
No, of course not. You know, sort of if you need this stuff, you need to get it in, right? Like, there's no, you know, what it is, you know, exactly. Every detail. You know, how much I paid for it, you know, how I paid for it. Like, I provide, like, bank account, like, everything, everything. And, you know, it's just like one reason after another to, you know, one day the truck's about to go in and the generator breaks at one of the borders, and I'm like, this is the. One of the most sophisticated countries in the world, and their generator broke and now the border's closed. You know, so, I mean, I got lots of stories that I won't border you with. That's. It's kind of ridiculous if you get into the minutia. Like, I think I try to forget all the stuff that happens because I might, you know, sort of of just get depressed.
- [123:30]
Emily
That's actually really interesting. I think we would welcome many examples and not be bored by them. And maybe, Ahmed, you could also flesh out the parallel that you're talking about with Ukraine is a. Is a great example right now because the same people who are, you know, saying Israel has to do this would. Would say the opposite about Putin. If you could maybe flesh out what you've seen, like the. The ability to get humanitarian aid through to people over there that would.
- [123:56]
Sagar
Yeah, no, it's easy. In Ukraine, it's very easy because they're. The borders are open. You know, not the Russian border and not the Belarus border, but you have Poland, you have Hungary, Slovakia, Romania, Moldova, and those are all relatively friendly countries and there are no issues. You can get whatever you want. You know, you declare it, there's a process, but it goes right over and into wherever it's needed. In the case of Gaza, and like I said, there's nothing, there's no, no corollary for Gaza. There's never been a situation where all the borders are closed and one entity controls what goes in or out. And so I sort of say, and you know, people take this the wrong way, but I sort of say it's as if the Russians, if you want to think about Gaza, it says if the Russians controlled all the borders, so they controlled Poland and Hungary and Slovakia and Romania, like they controlled what was going in. I mean, they could, they literally could bomb those borders, but they don't. But in the situation of Gaza, there's just no, there's no other way to get anything in other than through Israel and through, you know, sort of the good graces of the Israeli authorities. And I think there are some good actors in the Israeli government. But, you know, they have their marching orders and their marching orders are very clearly let the absolute minimum in and no one's pushing us. And, you know, the Biden administration, again, just, you know, fumbled whatever leverage they had. And they have all the leverage because two to three giant air force planes land full of weapons every day for the last over a year, but they just never pushed it. And so the Israelis understand, like, look, this is not important to the United States, so we'll just, we'll keep doing what we're doing.
- [125:34]
Ryan Grim
Can you, since you've spent so much time in Ukraine, can you compare how Israel approaches Palestinian civilian infrastructure and how Putin approaches Ukrainian civilian infrastructure?
- [125:48]
Sagar
I mean, there are some similarities, but there's literally nothing left in Gaza. I mean, you've seen my videos. Like, there's literally, essentially, when you enter Kerem Shalom, ironically named border crossing, you drive alongside of Gaza in Israel. So to your right as you're driving south is Gaza and to your left is Israel. And your sort of life is normal and they're shopping malls and gas stations, etc. And when you enter Karam Shalom, you there are giant reinforced walls 30ft high that are one after another. And so you sort of zigzag through these walls. And once you've crossed those walls, all you see is devastation. As soon as you enter, it's just rubble in every direction. And the first thing you see are kids playing in the rubble. And so there's no corollary for that. It's kind of wild that the amount of rubble in Gaza, which is the size of Philadelphia or Las Vegas is I think twice to three times the amount of rubble that's in Ukraine, which is the size of Texas, you know, and the war is three years old in Ukraine. So there's, it's actually I tell the Ukrainians that I come there to. I recently went directly from Gaza to Ukraine and I said, and I actually went to the front and I said, you know, I'm here to relax after Gaza. So that was, everybody laughed because what else do you do?
- [127:19]
Ryan Grim
Well, yeah, because I, you had sent me one video from a place where you were sleeping where it just seemed like the windows were rattling all night long.
- [127:28]
Sagar
Yeah, it's bombs. It's the GPU 30, GBU 39. It's a glided bomb, glided air bomb that has, has electronics on it which, you know, you can guide it. They're just massive bombs and they just drop them over and over and over again. And every, no matter where you're sleeping, you'll hear them all night long. And they shake the ground and they shake everything. And you know, essentially the, what they do is if there's a guy they're looking for who they think is Hamas, if anyone's around that guy, he's dead or she's dead or the four year old kid is dead. And you know, sort of these bombs aren't, you know, checking people's IDs, they're just killing people.
- [128:06]
Emily
The New York Times just confirmed in that long investigation.
- [128:10]
Sagar
Yeah, I mean it's, it's indisputable. Like literally, you know, sort of, there's nothing precise about any of it. They could be precise if they wanted to and sort of, you know, when you're driving around Gaza, it's kind of like in your thoughts because if some sort of character that they're looking for happens to wind up next to your car, you're gone. They're not, you know, they're not really asking questions or confirming or anything. And that's just, that's, that's, you know, like literally nobody can deny this. And again, the entire United States decision making authority knows this and that's just the way it is. So there's no corollary. Actually the Russians don't do. I mean they, they've killed plenty of civilians, but it's just a different level.
- [128:52]
Ryan Grim
If the Israeli goal is to, to depopulate Gaza, why don't they let at least the injured people out? Like it feels like they're working across purposes to that goal.
- [129:03]
Sagar
No, I think it's part of the plan. Right, like you get the people so desperate, desperate to the point where once you sort of move onto that mechanism of getting everybody out, then everybody just goes, but until that point, you're going to make life as miserable as possible for everyone. So we have this situation now where they're between. I mean, there are probably about 10,000 kids who either have pre existing conditions like cancer or have been injured significantly and can't get out. And there is a process with the World Health Organization to get people out. And the Israelis will sort of approve 5 to 10% of the cases. And you know, I know these cases, I've seen these kids and they're literally sitting in a tent with no chemotherapy, just dying. And their case was rejected. And you don't get an answer as to why it was rejected. And again, this is another failure of the U.S. administration. And sort of, it's like they just don't care. Right. There's no other answer for it. Why would you, why would you let, you know, 5, 10, 15,000 kids who are in urgent need of medical care and can be evacuated out, just sit there. But it's across the board. There's no blood pressure medication, so people just die of heart attacks and they're tense. It's on and on and on and on.
- [130:23]
Emily
Well, I was just going to ask a hypothetical. If President Ryan Grimm were being inaugurated on January 20, is it on the humanitarian front, not the military front, but on the humanitarian front? Is it in the power of an incoming United States administration? Almost like flip a switch on the humanitarian stuff and use the leverage and say you are letting these in. How theoretically simple would it be if someone wanted to increase the input of humanitarian aid?
- [130:53]
Ryan Grim
Yeah.
- [130:54]
Sagar
If you decided that you don't want little kids to be suffering 24, 7, you could scale up the amount of humanitarian aid in days. The United States government knows exactly what the needs are. You know, the United nations knows exactly what the needs are, what the calorie count is, medicine, etc. And it could happen immediately. I mean, the resources are out there, the stuff's out there. And you, you would just tell the Israelis, look, I can't abide by this, this is wrong, and change it tomorrow, literally.
- [131:30]
Ryan Grim
Well, Ahmed, always appreciate your insights and also what you're doing for the people of Gaza. Thank you so much for joining us. Anything else you'd want to add for people?
- [131:43]
Sagar
Yeah, I mean, I think people are frustrated and trying to figure out how they can help and what they can do and I think they should just keep, keep at it. It's Tough. It's really. It's really sad. But the people in Gaza appreciate them. They, they. They hear them. They understand that there are people with them that feel their. Their. Their plight, that are aware of them. And I think people just need to really just push the. The decision makers. Unfortunately, we're at a point in this world where they're just not no world leaders who really, you know, there's just. There's no empathy. It's just sort of apathy, I suppose. And, you know, there are certain things, like with regard to the children's evacuations, that's something that has to happen. Increasing the amount of humanitarian aid. It has to happen is again, the population. You know, when they keep talking about Hamas. Hamas, it's like there are about 20,000. Before, like, 15 months ago, there were, let's say, 20,000 Hamas soldiers or whatever you want to call them. I don't know how many there are now. But you're. It's a war against women and children. Essentially, 70% of the population are women and children. So. And literally, when you drive around Gaza, you. You just see children. Like, that's the thing. You're struck in just rubble and children, and you're wondering, like, where is this, you know, Hamas? And I'm sure they're there, but you just don't see them. So I tell everybody to keep the faith and, you know, we'll. We'll make a change one of these days.
- [133:18]
Ryan Grim
We'll see. Ahmed Khan, thanks so much for joining us.
- [133:22]
Sagar
Thanks, Ryan. Thanks, Emily.
- [133:23]
Ryan Grim
All right, well, that'll do it for us today. Thanks, everybody. Also, thank you, everybody, for the kind words over the last couple weeks. It's really meant a lot to us, to me and my family. I'll keep you updated as we continue on that front. Emily, anything else?
- [133:42]
Emily
No. Your family is amazing. And all the breaking points, subscribers and viewers, are amazing. So thank you to everybody. Thank you for supporting us into another year. And we will see you back here soon.
- [133:55]
Ryan Grim
See you then. Joel.
- [134:10]
Joel
The holidays are a blast, but the financial hangover, that can be a huge bummer. If you are out there and you're dreading the new statement email that reveals the massive balance that you may have racked up. Well, you could use our help.
- [134:23]
Krystal
That's right. I'm Joel. Joel.
- [134:24]
Joel
And I am Matt.
- [134:25]
Krystal
And we're from the how to Money podcast. Our show is all about helping you make sense of your personal finances so you can ditch your pesky credit card debt once and for all, make real progress on other crucial financial goals that you've got and just feel more in control of your money in general.
- [134:40]
Joel
You know it. For money advice without the judgment and jargon, listen to how to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever.
- [134:47]
Nikki Glaser
You get your podcasts hey, it's Nikki Glaser. So I hosted the Golden Globes at Hollywood's biggest party. Honestly, you've probably seen all the headlines this week, but like any good party, there's a lot of wild stuff that goes down behind the scenes that you don't know about. And since I hosted the Golden Globes, I'm letting my podcast listeners my besties in on all the behind the scenes tea stuff that didn't make it to the live TV taping, what went down in rehearsals, who said what at the after party. You're going to hear it all. Let's listen to the Nikki Glaser podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [135:22]
Ahmed Khan
Do you want a shortcut to the best version of you? Here it is. Feed the Good Wolf I'm Eric Zimmer, host of the One youe Feed. Every week I talk to brilliant minds and brave souls about the art of small, powerful choices. Our list listeners say it all.
- [135:42]
Ryan Grim
This is a lifeline transformational, the best.
- [135:45]
Nikki Glaser
Antidote to a bad mood I've ever heard.
- [135:49]
Ahmed Khan
Join the pack and start feeding your best self. Listen to the one you feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.