2/11/26: Ro Khanna Exposes Epstein Co-Conspirators, Epstein Biohacking, Shock Jobs Numbers

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar

Episode Summary: "2/11/26: Ro Khanna Exposes Epstein Co-Conspirators, Epstein Biohacking, Shock Jobs Numbers"

Date: February 11, 2026
Hosts: Krystal Ball, Ryan Grim
Podcast: Breaking Points (iHeartPodcasts)

---

Overview of Episode

This episode dives deeply into new revelations from the unredacted Epstein files, spotlights Representative Ro Khanna’s public disclosure of previously hidden figures tied to Epstein, explores Epstein’s obsession with biohacking and eugenics, and dissects the latest U.S. jobs report and its broader economic implications. The hosts break down connections of power, elite complicity, and government transparency, all while maintaining their hallmark irreverence and skepticism.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ro Khanna and the Unredacted Epstein Files

(06:00 - 13:20)

• Congressional Revelations:

  • Ro Khanna and Thomas Massie accessed unredacted Jeffrey Epstein files at the DOJ, exposing that “70-80% of the files are still redacted.”
  • Six powerful men previously concealed by DOJ redactions were named by Khanna on the House floor:
    • Salvatore Navora,
    • Zorab Michalades,
    • Lupig Leonor,
    • Nicola Caputa,
    • Sultan Ahmed Bin Sulayam (CEO of Dubai Ports World),
    • Leslie Wexner (billionaire, owner of Victoria’s Secret).

• Congressional Immunity Utilized:

  • Khanna used a protected platform (the House floor) to reveal these names, making him and Massie, in the hosts’ words, unusually courageous for Congress.
  • "These are the first two members of Congress where I'm like, I'm kind of worried about these guys." — Ryan Grim [11:39]

• Power Structures Behind the Files:

  • Ryan discusses the strategic importance of Dubai Ports World and Sultan Sulayam, underlining Epstein’s intimate knowledge of how commodities and wealth move globally, and how media often reduces complex systemic issues to personal scandals.

---

2. Mainstream Coverage vs. Independent Reporting

(10:57 - 13:04)

• Systemic Power vs. Scandal:

  • The hosts highlight the difference between mainstream media's focus on individual wrongdoing versus independent outlets (like Dropsite) that contextualize these actions within broader systems of global wealth and power.

• Khanna and Independent Media:

  • Ro Khanna’s attentiveness to independent media is emphasized as a major reason he is more in tune with public sentiment than many colleagues.
  • "He had his finger on the pulse of where people were on this issue long before his colleagues, because his colleagues are following the New York Times and CNN …" — Ryan Grim [12:21]

---

3. Howard Lutnick and Epstein

(14:51 - 18:43)

• Contradictory Testimony:
  • Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick testified before Congress, originally claiming he cut off contact with Epstein in 2005; however, new emails show a 2012 visit to Epstein’s island for lunch.
  • The hosts mock the billionaire’s “forgetfulness” and suggest these lunch meetings, often with families present, were part of Epstein’s PR strategy to ingratiate himself with power brokers.

---

4. Epstein Files, Donald Trump, and Law Enforcement

(18:43 - 26:46)

• Trump’s Name in Over a Million Files:

  • Jamie Raskin revealed that Trump's name appeared "more than a million times" in the Epstein files, although much of this is attributed to unsubstantiated public tips—the hosts caution this number is misleading.
  • "If anybody sent an email or called the FBI at any point, even after Epstein died and said, 'hey, I think Trump killed Epstein,' boom, that would, like, go into the files." — Ryan Grim [19:54]

• Trump’s Alleged Tip-Off:

  • Redacted documents suggest Trump once called Palm Beach police to urge them to investigate Epstein, with a contemporaneous Miami Herald article backing up this claim.

---

5. Local Corruption: Epstein Payments at Ohio State

(21:55 - 24:29)

• Quarterly Payments to Department Head:
  • Reports surface of Epstein paying Ohio State’s OB/GYN chair, Dr. Mark Landon, $25,000 quarterly for biotech consulting.
  • Ryan connects this to the deep roots of Epstein and Leslie Wexner's operations in Ohio, including ties to the region’s power brokers.

---

6. Epstein, Eugenics, and Biohacking

(28:19 - 40:53)

• Epstein’s Obsession With Genetics:

  • The hosts dissect their reporting (and Dropsite’s) on Epstein’s relentless pursuit of gene therapy and eugenic projects, including dreams of “seeding the human race with his DNA.”
  • Ghislaine Maxwell helped Epstein build relationships with biotech figures like Anne Wojcicki (founder of 23andMe) and Google’s Sergey Brin.

• Designer Babies and Ukraine:

  • Epstein funded a Ukrainian biolab project led by hacker Brian Bishop to produce "designer babies," with explicit plans for anonymity around these births because "it would brand the child as … a freak for life.”

• Elite Complicity:

  • The episode details Epstein introducing and connecting elites (MIT, Bill Gates, Russian tech investors), and pursuing relationships with intelligence-connected figures.
  • "None of this would be worth talking about if this guy wasn't operating at the very upper echelons of elite global society." — Ryan Grim [38:49]

• Eugenics in Israeli Political Context:

  • The hosts quote from Epstein’s files, highlighting discussions between Epstein and Ehud Barak (former Israeli Prime Minister) regarding Israeli demographics and problematic language about “undesirable” Mizrahi and African Jews, exposing entrenched supremacist attitudes.

---

7. Economic “Shock” — The January Jobs Report

(43:07 - 56:07)

• Report Beats Expectations:

  • January added 130,000 jobs, unemployment hit 4.3%, private sector jobs up, government jobs down.
  • Trump administration moves to take credit, but was caught lowering expectations just before release.

• Labor Market Nuances:

  • The positive headline stats are undercut by the fact that nearly all job growth comes from health care, and in reality, jobs outside health care have shrunk.
  • "Over the last year, health care accounted for 122% of job growth. So other than health care, we have lost jobs over the last year." — Ryan Grim [48:40]
  • Economic anxiety indicators: Weak holiday sales, rising consumer delinquencies, and warnings about structural unemployment in the face of ongoing technological disruption.

• Tariffs and Economic Policy:

  • The hosts scrutinize Trump’s tariff policies—especially as they relate to building materials (lumber, drywall, etc.)—and argue that protectionism, when poorly implemented, can backfire and exacerbate supply challenges.

---

8. AI Revolution and The Coming Labor Shock

(56:07 - 57:42)

• Disruptive Technological Change:
  • The episode closes with warnings about generational labor shifts due to AI and automation—an influx of college graduates facing potential record unemployment rates, underpinned by trade wars and a policy climate not ready for the transformative pace of AI.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Congressional Courage:
  • "These are the first two members of Congress where I'm like, I'm kind of worried about these guys."
    — Ryan Grim on Ro Khanna and Thomas Massie (11:39)
• On Elite Blindness:
  • "Who hasn't been out on their yacht in the Caribbean and stopped in on Jeffrey Epstein's island for lunch and then forgotten about it?"
    — Ryan Grim, mocking Howard Lutnick’s testimony (17:19)
• On Systemic Media Failure:
  • "We're telling you what's actually happening … and where it fits into the story of the world."
    — Crystal Ball on independent vs. mainstream reporting (11:02)
• On Epstein's Vision:
  • "He wanted to turn his New Mexico ranch … into this Manhattan Project for basically kind of hacking the genome."
    — Ryan Grim (29:38)
• On Misleading Trump Mentions in Files:
  • "If anybody sent an email or called the FBI … and said, 'hey, I think Trump killed Epstein,' boom, that would, like, go into the files. And that doesn't actually tell us anything."
    — Ryan Grim (19:54)
• On Tariff Policy Absurdity:
  • "The brain dead part … is like, what are we gonna do, have Georgia grow maple trees and start making maple syrup?"
    — Ryan Grim (51:54)
• On AI and the Economy:
  • "You have the trade war and the AI revolution happening at the same time … and it's going to accelerate to proportions I don't think anybody fully yet understands."
    — Crystal Ball (56:07)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 06:00 – 13:20: Khanna & Massie expose Epstein file redactions; names revealed
• 14:51 – 18:43: Howard Lutnick’s testimony unraveling
• 18:43 – 26:46: Trump’s appearances in Epstein files and law enforcement context
• 21:55 – 24:29: Epstein’s payments to OSU OB/GYN chair
• 28:19 – 40:53: Deep dive into Epstein’s eugenics and biohacking links
• 43:07 – 56:07: Jobs report breakdown, tariff debate, consumer indicators
• 56:07 – 57:42: AI-driven labor disruption discussed

---

Episode Tone and Takeaways

Krystal and Ryan approach the episode with their signature blend of directness, skepticism toward elites, and witty banter—even when dealing with deeply serious subject matter. Their analysis exposes not just individuals but systemic failings, whether in government transparency, media narratives, or economic policy. This episode is a must-listen (or read) for anyone seeking insight into the confluence of political power, economic upheaval, and the dark intersections between tech, finance, and abuse at the top.

---

End of Summary.

Transcript

[Ryan Grim]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human the Big Game commercials are basically must see tv. This year Elf Cosmetics went all out with an absurdly funny telenovela called Melissa. It stars Melissa McCarthy, Nicholas Gonzalez, Itachi Cantoral and E L F Glow Reviver Lip Oil. The Elf Glow Reviver Lip Oil is an ultra glossy tinted lip oil that nourishes, hydrates and enhances your lips natural color. Watch the full episode of their new E L f novella on soyunbanyo.com Military life isn't predictable, but earning your Master's degree can be. With American Military University's 40 flexible online master's programs, you can stay mission ready while you get market ready. Learn anywhere, anytime with an education built to keep pace steady, reliable and always accessible. Plus, military service members, veterans and their families can save up to 45% on Master's tuition with AMU Sports Special Rates and Grants. Learn more at AMU Apus Edu Steady through every mission. You don't just live in your home, you live in your neighborhood as well. So when you're shopping for a home, you want to know as much about the area around it as possible. Luckily, homes.com has got you covered. Each listing features a comprehensive neighborhood guide from local experts. Everything you'd ever want to know about a neighborhood, including the number of homes for sale, transportation, local amenities, cultural attractions, unique qualities, and even things like medium lot size and in noise. Score homes.com, we've done your homework.

[Crystal Ball]

Hey guys, Sager and Crystal here. Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show. This is the only place where you.

[Ryan Grim]

Can find honest perspectives from the left.

[Crystal Ball]

And the right that simply does not exist anywhere else. So if that is something that's important.

[Ryan Grim]

To you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become.

[Crystal Ball]

A member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see [e-mail].

[Ryan Grim]

Good morning and welcome to Breaking Points. Emily, the guy in charge of safety over at Anthropic says that he is quitting to go write poetry and that we are all in peril. So just FYI. I mean we're not gonna cover that though today cause we like to keep it light here.

[Crystal Ball]

Actually it'll be relevant to the job segment that we're doing. So this Job Big Jobs report will be out by the time we talk about it right now, as we tape this. Waiting about another 10 minutes, but that's actually going to be perfectly relevant to whatever these numbers are.

[Ryan Grim]

Poetry jobs for very rich people are still doing okay, though.

[Crystal Ball]

Do you want to hear a secret?

[Ryan Grim]

Let's hear it.

[Crystal Ball]

I have a degree in creative writing with a concentration in poetry.

[Ryan Grim]

That does not surprise me. Believe it or not.

[Crystal Ball]

It's pretty shameful, actually.

[Ryan Grim]

So, anyway, we're not going to talk about that. We actually invited the guy on to do an interview. He's like, no, no, no, I said that we are all in peril as humanity, and I'm quitting to go do poetry. Not going to give any more details. You're all in peril. Good luck.

[Crystal Ball]

This is not a show for poets, Ryan. Actually, we welcome all poets.

[Ryan Grim]

We are going to talk about Jeffrey Epstein, piano player. Yes, extraordinaire. We're going to talk about his interest in eugenics. That's why it says eugenics underneath there.

[Crystal Ball]

We should explain that, actually. We should, like, just ask him some.

[Ryan Grim]

Questions about, you know, jobs report. The administration saying we have to revise down our expectations. Everybody always hopes that there are more jobs in the jobs report, but work sucks, and so there should be fewer jobs.

[Crystal Ball]

We've got a good clip. You're gonna wanna stay around for this block.

[Ryan Grim]

We're gonna talk about the story and dropsite that we did about whether or not negotiations between Cuba and the United States are actually happening as the US Is completely shutting down, basically, all things going into Cuba. All things Rubio was claiming. Their talks.

[Crystal Ball]

You broke some people's brains with.

[Ryan Grim]

This is a weird story.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah, we're gonna. We're gonna go through it. Also, Netanyahu moved up a trip. He's in town here today. Meeting actually closed door for now with Donald Trump around 11:00am that's also as Trump is weighing whether to keep escalating in Iran, potentially. What, a second aircraft carrier group on the table right now.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. Barack Ravid called him up and he's like, man, maybe I'll send another one. So now that's news.

[Crystal Ball]

Something.

[Ryan Grim]

This is Netanyahu's seventh trip in Trump's second term.

[Crystal Ball]

We're a year in. We're a year in seven trips. Yeah. We also have a really odd new development in the case of Nancy Guthrie. So that's Savannah Guthrie's mom, obviously, who appears to have been abducted. The FBI released new photos and video of a suspect in yesterday. Interestingly, though, some of it is from a NEST camera, and it appears that Nancy Guthrie did not have a NEST camera subscription. So what does that mean? Well, it means that Nest may be recording constantly and saving the files whether or not you have a subscription files on that creepy ring super bowl commercial. So we're going to talk about all of that. And Ryan, you interviewed a candidate in New Jersey.

[Ryan Grim]

That's right. Ana Lilia Mahia was yesterday declared the official Victor in New Jersey 11 because Tom Malinowski, her chief opponent, who's only behind by less than a thousand votes, conceded. This is the race where AIPAC spent two plus million dollars to stop Malinowski from winning and accidentally elected Mejia, who's a Bernie AOC wing Democrat who has been calling out Israel's genocide and calling for all weapons shipments to be stopped for two years, two plus years now. So big L for apac. And so we'll talk to Aunt Lilia about what she plans to do when she gets to Washington and you know, her reflections on on the race now that she's been declared the winner.

[Crystal Ball]

And don't forget to subscribe if you haven't yet. It's super helpful. You can go to breakingpoints.com for a premium subscription. That's also where if you get the premium subscription, you get the show early in full in your inbox every day. And also the second half of the Friday shows, those are paywalled for premium only. No problem. If you can't just like and comment and subscribe, it helps us so much. Now, Ryan, let's get on to the news that yesterday Representative Ro Khanna went, and you may be seeing more of this, was able to view unredacted Epstein files. Thomas Massie has been doing this as well. And Ro Khanna used his privilege of speaking on the House floor to name the people who are in Georgia can't.

[Ryan Grim]

Sue a member of Congress for something they say on the floor, which what's.

[Crystal Ball]

Her name, Nancy Mace.

[Ryan Grim]

Nancy Mace used for her own messy drama. Rokhanna using for the public for the.

[Crystal Ball]

Public'S messy drama at the very least. So let's go ahead and roll this. This is going to be a shot of them talking about who's behind these redactions.

[Ryan Grim]

Congressman Massie and I went to the Department of Justice to read the unredacted Epstein files. We spent about two hours there and we learned that 70 to 80% of the files are still redacted. In fact, there were six wealthy, powerful men that the DOJ hid for no apparent reason. When Congressman Massie and I pointed this out to the Department of Justice. They acknowledged their mistake, and now they have revealed the identity of these six powerful men. These men are Salvatore Navora, Zorab Michalades Lupig Leonor Nicola Caputa, Sultan Ahmed Bin Sulayam, CEO of Dubai Ports World, and billionaire businessman Leslie Wexner.

[Crystal Ball]

Leslie Wexner. Oh, interesting. Ryan, who I believe is actually going to sit for questions.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, we'll see. We'll see if he actually answers anything.

[Crystal Ball]

But, yeah, unless. Yeah, you get. Obviously.

[Ryan Grim]

But he was subpoenaed by Congress.

[Crystal Ball]

Subpoenaed by Congress, who just turned over.

[Ryan Grim]

His fortune to Jeffrey Epstein for no reason.

[Crystal Ball]

And we can put the next element up on the screen. This is from Aaron Parnas, who said he spoke with Ro Khanna, who, quote, confirmed that most of the unredacted files remain redacted because the FBI scrubbed them in March and then gave the DOJ redacted copies. Now the FBI is under the doj. So kind of a process question there about what that means, Ryan. But Parnas says DOJ seemingly never asked for new unredacted versions of those files. Big names. Now, you. You all at Dropsite have done reporting on the Sultan, who plays a rather interesting role in all of this.

[Ryan Grim]

I feel like they're going to throw him under the bus. He's going to be a kind of sacrificial. Lamia Sultan Suleiman is a. The chair of Dubai Ports World, DP World, which is an Emirati company, which is extremely important for you to understand how the world works. This is a company that for decades has been inserting itself into the flow of commodities and oil throughout the world. And Epstein has been friends with this guy for a very long time. Like, the. You know, the ports are the arteries of power. Like, if you control the ports, you control the flow of. Of diamond, you know, diamonds out of Angola, where Epstein was operating, or basically all commodities like that. Epstein very fluidly understood power, and not just power at a, like, cocktail circuit level, but how wealth actually moves around the world and who controls it and how. And so the Israelis and the Emiratis also very deeply understand this, and they are very closely allied. Sulayam was one of his seems like closest associates, deeply involved in all of this, like, predatory, perverted stuff that they were doing. Yes, as you see in the emails. And so, yeah, we wrote about him mid January and his connection to Israel and to Epstein. There's been further reporting now on him since then, basically exposing him for being a creep. And it's interesting to see the difference between the kind of mainstream coverage of him and ours, which is like, we're going to tell you how he and his company fit into world power. And also that he's a creep. The rest of the media, they're just going to like, flag that he's a creep, and then they're going to eject him. You know what they're going to do then? Put another chairman of Dubai Ports World in there who will continue the same system that will be just as corrupt.

[Crystal Ball]

Right. No, I think that's actually true of most of the drop site coverage. When you're contrasting it with.

[Ryan Grim]

We're telling you what's actually happening.

[Crystal Ball]

Yes.

[Ryan Grim]

And where. And where it fits into the story of the world.

[Crystal Ball]

You could do both at the same time.

[Ryan Grim]

You can. Turns out you can.

[Crystal Ball]

Yes.

[Ryan Grim]

Or you cannot, which is the other way of doing it.

[Crystal Ball]

Well, so speaking of how power fits into the bigger picture, Howard Lutnick was testifying, Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick in front of the Appropriations Committee yesterday and got some big questions about what seems to be a massive gulf between his earlier explanation of any relationship with Jeffrey Epstein he may have had and what is actually in the files.

[Ryan Grim]

Real quick, before we move to that, let's just give Ro Khanna and Massey their flowers again.

[Crystal Ball]

Oh, absolutely.

[Ryan Grim]

Like, these are the first two members of Congress where I'm like, I'm kind of worried about these guys. Like, that's how.

[Crystal Ball]

That's a good point.

[Ryan Grim]

Like, that's how.

[Crystal Ball]

Stay out of Guyana, hardcore.

[Ryan Grim]

They're being in their pursuit of this. But I'm like, ooh, watch yourself, Ro. Watch yourself, Thomas. I mean, they're trying to get mad. They're spending millions to get Massey out of office. The oligarchs are trying to get Ro Khanna out. Are they too late? We'll see. We'll see if they can orchestrate that. But I'm more. Even beyond that. Ro Khanna, more than any other Democrat, has been paying attention to independent media for the longest time. Everyone who watches this show knows this, and it's not a coincidence. I don't think that he had his finger on the pulse of where people were on this issue long before his colleagues, because his colleagues are following the New York Times and cnn, and that's where they're taking their cues. So they're like, oh, Epstein, nobody cares about this. And Ro Khanna, he's following this show. He's following the broad podcaster universe. He's like, oh, I see what people care about. And people come up to him all over the country now because he's been out on so much independent media and talk to him about stuff. So he has. He interestingly is one of the more in touch politicians because he's been able to. Because he kind of chose like I'm gonna see what this independent media space is all about.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah, and he learned quickly because he's told us this before when he was going out to airports, whatever, people would say, oh my gosh, I've seen you on Breaking Points. But that gives you a sense of like, really?

[Ryan Grim]

The people don't say that about cnn.

[Crystal Ball]

Probably not.

[Ryan Grim]

Really, probably not.

[Crystal Ball]

Probably not.

[Ryan Grim]

Military life isn't predictable, but earning your master's degree can be. With American Military University's 40 flexible online master's programs, you can stay mission ready while you get market ready. Learn anywhere, anytime with an education built to keep pace steady, reliable and always accessible. Plus, military service members, veterans and their families can save up to 45% on master's tuition with AMU's special rates and grants. Learn more at AMU Apus edu steady.

[Crystal Ball]

Through every mission homes.com knows having the right agent can make or break your home search. That's why they provide home shoppers with an agent directory that gives you a detailed look at each agent's experience, like the number of closed sales in a specific neighborhood, average price range, and more. It lets you easily connect with all the agents in the area you're searching so you can find the right agent with the right experience and ultimately the right home for you.

[Ryan Grim]

Homes.com, we've done your homework at Amica Insurance, your time and peace of mind matter. Bundle your auto and home coverage with us and enjoy savings that make life a little easier. As a mutual insurance company, we're built for our customers. We prioritize your needs and are here for you when you need us. Amica Empathy is our best policy. Visit amica.com and get a quote today.

[Crystal Ball]

On to guys.

[Ryan Grim]

Anyway, Howard Lutnick, guy can spin an amazing yarn. He did this incredible story one time about it the first time he met Epstein. And he can really tell a good story. He imagined him at a dinner party.

[Crystal Ball]

Didn't work yesterday.

[Ryan Grim]

And so he told this incredible story about the first time he met Epstein. And he just had this visceral disgust at him. Never saw him. Never. Never wanted to see him ever again. Cut him out of his life. So let's, let's see where that ended up.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Did you have a dinner in Epstein's New York city home in 2011? No. So the information that suggests that there was a dinner with Woody Allen and Woody Allen's spouse at the Epstein residence. That's, that's, there's nothing to that. Is that right? I actually don't know what you're referring to. There was. Look, I, I looked through the millions of documents for my name, just like everybody else. And what I found was there was a document that says that I had a meeting with him on in May, I think for an hour for, at 5 o'. Clock, not dinner or otherwise. For an hour at 05:00'. Clock. When you visited the private island, did you see anything inappropriate during that visit? The only thing I saw with my wife and my children and the other couple and their children was staff who worked for Mr. Epstein on that island. And you realize that you know, this, this visit took place after he'd been convicted, right? I mean, you made a very big point of saying that you sensed that this was a bad person in 2005. And then of course, in 2008 he was convicted of soliciting prostitution of a minor. And yet you went and had this trip and other interactions.

[Crystal Ball]

So it turns out Howard Lutnick claims cut off contact in 2005. These emails are released and lo and behold, there's a 2012 message showing that Howard Lutnick obviously visited the island for lunch. Ryan, that's a. Listen, he's Cantor Fitzgerald. He is jet setting, going all over the world. I don't know that he actually forgot about that one.

[Ryan Grim]

I feel bad for these billionaires, you know, they're just getting busted for doing billionaire things. Look who hasn't been out on their yacht in the Caribbean and stopped in on Jeffrey Epstein's island for lunch and then forgotten about it. Now, in his defense, I will say if you went to the island with your kids and your wife and you had lunch and like there's nothing, there's no partying.

[Crystal Ball]

He actually was. You can see in the emails a lot of messages where Epstein is offering people to bring their families by when they're on vacation in the Caribbean for whatever reason. Oftentimes Epstein wasn't there. He was, you can see him organizing with his staff in these emails, obviously trying to ingratiate himself with them.

[Ryan Grim]

Right. So I don't, so I don't think that Howard Lutnick participated in any of this bacchanalia with children or whatever. It's like. But still to like say that in 2005, this is his neighbor, by the way, that you sensed he was a total creep and then he gets convicted and then you Bring your kids to the island for lunch. Maybe there's not. I've never, like, yachted around the Caribbean, so I don't know how hard it is to find a lunch spot. You know, maybe. Maybe that's a real challenge.

[Crystal Ball]

It's the only place, really.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. Everything else is closed or like half an hour to get a table.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Epstein's like, come on over. Second time cocktail.

[Crystal Ball]

One of the only places.

[Ryan Grim]

Pizza. Get a good serving pizza.

[Crystal Ball]

Yep. Oh, dark. Just picked up on that one. All right, let's put this quote from Jimmy Raskin up on the screen. He said yesterday that in the unredacted Epstein files, Donald Trump's name came up, quote, more than a million times. That is, according to Axios. Now, important to note, a lot of what is in the DOJ's Epstein files is from Trump's first presidency and subsequent years, meaning people were calling in tips about high profile politicians, including Donald Trump. So a lot of that is probably from unredacted tips, but there are plenty of mentions of Trump between Bannon and Epstein between. And at one point, there's all kinds of weird stuff, obviously, as people know already. But at one point, they're talking about getting Bannon to kind of woo Kushner to the populist side. So there's conversations about policy, there's conversations about. I mean, there's conversations about Trump that predate even his administration. So it's not shocking. That number is actually not shocking to me at all.

[Ryan Grim]

Right. I think that's right. I'd call this a kind of a misleading number in that sense, because if anybody sent an email or called the FBI at any point, even after Epstein died and said, hey, I think Trump killed Epstein, boom, that would, like, go into the files. And that doesn't actually tell us anything. Just some random person said that. Other than that, that random person's kind of being funny or like, maybe they actually had some information.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah. And some of those tips, I mean, that's what's unfortunate. Some of those tips are probably legitimate. Some of them are clearly from mentally disturbed people. And that doesn't make them less legitimate, but it does make them. You know, you take them with a grain of salt when people are talking about all kinds of different strange stuff that's mixed up in this. And you can, if you, if you search the files, you will find that immediately. If you're spending like a half an hour, you'll see all kinds of tips like that. It doesn't.

[Ryan Grim]

You probably get a lot of these, right. Like just emails from the public.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

And you can tell oftentimes that this is a mentally ill person who's just. Who's making, like, wild allegations. If out of context, somebody screenshot of that was like, look what this person. Look what this says. It's in FBI files. Right. Like, whoa, whoa, hold on a second. Yep. Like, easy now.

[Crystal Ball]

Well, and there's a.

[Ryan Grim]

Here I'm defending Trump and Epstein.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah. Well, it was. I think it was Tucker who was floating the theory that some of these tips are just getting mixed into the files. I mean, there's still 3 million files that haven't been released according to their own numbers. So are these tips being mixed in intentionally to discredit the entire batch?

[Ryan Grim]

Absolutely. Absolutely. Because what the FBI could have done.

[Crystal Ball]

Yep.

[Ryan Grim]

Is release them as unverified public allegations. Every single one could be called that. But because they redact everything that gives it any context. Give it no additional context. You look at it, you're like, department of justice says that. Wow. Like, I think it is a deliberate misinformation strategy.

[Crystal Ball]

Well, they're also keeping, again, like, $3 million to themselves.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes, it's dis.

[Crystal Ball]

But they're also keeping, like, 3 million to themselves. So they could have just not released. If they're planning to not release things, the thing that you would not release is the unvetted tips. Like, that's pretty obvious. Meanwhile, crazy story here. This is a five. So local media in Ohio, this is their NBC affiliate in Columbus, said convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein paid Ohio State University's head of gynecology quarterly payments of thousands of dollars. Department of justice files show. So this is what local reporters found in the files. Mark Landon, a physician and professor at OSU and the chair of the obstetric. I can't ever pronounce that word. Ob. GYN Department received quarterly payments of thousands of dollars from Epstein in the early 2000s, records show. According to release files, Landon received as much as $25,000. We're talking early 2000, $25,000 to every few months. He told NBC4 the payments were for, quote, consulting work, and he had no knowledge of Epstein's crimes. Ryan, Columbus, Ohio. Lex Wexner, Victoria's Secret Land.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. And the story that we're about to tell you about in the next segment is going to. Provides some useful context that Emily and I and Maz wrote. But, yes, for more context on the Wexner part, as if you've been following along with our reporting, you know that and other people have done this reporting as well, that Jeffrey Epstein brought the CIA's Iran Contra airline plane they were using to ship drugs and weapons and diamonds and everything. When in the heat, you know, when the heat was on, they needed to lay low a little bit. Epstein moved the planes to Columbus, Ohio, to be used by Wexner for his lingerie business. And that was. This was in Columbus, Ohio. Wexner is like the don of Ohio State University, so it's not surprising that there would be links there. Now, what Landon says he did, he said, I was a paid consultant for the New York Strategy Group regarding potential Biotech investments from 2001 to 2005. I had no knowledge of any criminal activities. I find them reprehensible. And I feel terrible for Epstein's victims. That Epstein would have this guy on a consulting contract looking at Biotech Investments from 2001, 2005 actually checks out fully and doesn't make what Epstein was doing any less creepy. It actually makes it much worse. We'll talk about that in the next. In the. In the next segment.

[Crystal Ball]

Well, and here's the New York Times in 2019, reported Epstein. Many people probably are familiar with this quote. The wealthy financiers accused of sex trafficking had an unusual dream. He hoped to seed the human race with his DNA by impregnating women at his vast New Mexico ranch. Mr. Epstein over the years, confided to scientists and others about his scheme, according to four people familiar with his thinking, although there's no evidence that it ever came to fruition. That's a hell of a line. Or you're saying the human race has not been seeded with his DNA?

[Ryan Grim]

Elon Musk isn't even original on that one.

[Crystal Ball]

No, he. Yeah, he's. He's always.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah.

[Crystal Ball]

Just one step behind.

[Ryan Grim]

He is. All right, do the Trump thing real quick and then. And then move on.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah. Let's see it put up.

[Ryan Grim]

This is interesting. A6. This is a heavily redacted document that appears to come from the Palm Beach Police Department. This is a guess. Like, we can't really tell because these jerks redact so much. Palm Beach Police Department is not a victim here. So on what grounds are you not letting us know whether or not this is from the Palm Beach. Because if it is from the Palm Beach Police Department. This is interesting. And if it is, they say at the end that Trump was somebody who called the Palm Beach Police after they started investigating Epstein and said, I'm glad you got this guy. He was a creepy.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

And that you should look into Ghislaine because she's evil and Even worse. But again, I don't know. Is this Palm Beach Police? Is this credible? It appears like it's Palm Beach Police, but in this, what I think is a deliberate effort to confuse all of us and make it impossible to grab onto anything. The DOJ is not explaining. I'm actually. We'll ask Ro Khanna and Thomas Massie if they can actually look at this one privately or some other members.

[Crystal Ball]

And so actually the former police chief, his name is Michael Ryder, he told the Miami Herald that the call with Trump occurred in July of 2006. So I think he told Julie K. Brown that actually.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. So there is contemporaneous reporting to back up that that's why we wanted to put this on there because it does appear to be credible.

[Crystal Ball]

Yes, it's a very interesting bit of information.

[Ryan Grim]

Like what are you redacting the police chief there?

[Crystal Ball]

It's so completely ridiculous.

[Ryan Grim]

Or whoever it is.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Military life isn't predictable, but earning your master's degree can be. With American Military University's 40 flexible online master's programs, you can stay mission ready while you get market ready. Learn anywhere, anytime, with an education built to keep pace steady, reliable and always accessible. Plus, military service members, veterans and their families can save up to 45% on master's tuition with AMU's special rates and grants. Learn more at AMU Apus Edu Steady through every mission. You don't just live in your home, you live in your neighborhood as well. So when you're shopping for a home, you want to know as much about the area around it as possible. Luckily, homes.com has got you covered. Each listing features a comprehensive neighborhood guide from local experts. Everything you'd ever want to know about a neighborhood, including the number of homes for sale, transportation, local amenities, cultural attractions, unique qualities, and even things like median lot size and a noise score. Homes.com, we've done your homework. Can you grab one more thing? I'll come back up for you. At Amica Insurance, we know you'll always find ways to look out for the people you love. And with Amica Life Insurance, we'll help.

[Crystal Ball]

Build a plan to make sure you always can.

[Ryan Grim]

We're here to help protect the life you've built.

[Crystal Ball]

Really? You're gonna have another one.

[Ryan Grim]

Amica Empathy is our best policy. Visit ameca.com and get a quote. Today.

[Crystal Ball]

Let's move on to our Eugenics block, which is also an Epstein block, because Epstein, as it turns out, we just covered this. Basically is very interested in eugenics. Ryan Un Moz over at job site did this incredible report and I dropped in at the last minute and added like 100 words. But this was fantastic reporting. You guys went back years and painted, I think, a really important piece of this overall picture.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, team effort. Over at dropsite though, Maz and I slapping our names on it. It's hard to even explain what the heck is. What the heck this guy's doing here because it's so far kind of advanced and advanced into just like, I keep using the word creepy, but there isn't really a better one. This is somebody who understood that he himself was not of the kind of brilliant mind that was going to understand and code break either DNA or Bitcoin or things like that. But he understood it enough to understand who the people were and to be able to connect them and to finance them and then to try to. Like, I think he there he talks about wanting to clone himself.

[Crystal Ball]

Who among us?

[Ryan Grim]

Who among us? And to do DNA experiments and like. And so the headline of the article refers to how he wanted to turn his new. He built his New Mexico ranch, he said, to be this Manhattan Project for basically kind of hacking the genome. Like. So he wanted to connect NSA hackers.

[Crystal Ball]

Yes.

[Ryan Grim]

To biology. That's why I said in the last segment that this biotech research thing actually tracks. Like this is the kind of thing that he was into. And he's arguing that once you get into the world of code, you know, now you're talking about math and you actually can try to. Maybe somebody can answer some of these questions that maybe you can get in there, manipulate DNA and reshape humanity. And like he was trying to do nothing less than that and had the resources and the connections to do it. It's like you sound crazy even talking about it, but that's what had happened. We can put up the first element up here. It's from. Sorry, that. That's the headline of the story. You can put up the. Put up the next element. Read a little bit from it. Like many of his ultra wealthy peers, Jeffrey Epstein was fascinated by gene therapy and life extension technology. He once suggested to news anchor Katie Couric, to her shock and disgust, that he even planned to clone himself. But his interest in genomics was more than a passing fancy. It was an enduring obsession during the final decades of his life. And the key point is that he's not alone at all. Like, there's something about this and you guys have seen it. You see it from Peter Thiel and all these other transhumanists like he was way ahead of it. He was a pioneer in creating this space that the Thiels and the Johnsons have kind of moved into to. And they're really making this their obsession, that they're gonna live forever. Tim Dillon has had a good couple bits on that. Like, why? Yeah, your life. You want this life to go on? You don't seem happy. What are you doing? You wanna do the next?

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah, let's move on to the next element here. I'll read from this. This is from the drop site story. In December 2006, before Epstein was jailed for prostitution of a minor in Palm Beach, Ghislaine Maxwell invited who Google co founder Sergey Brin and his then girlfriend Anne Wojcicki to Epstein's little St. James Island. According to emails in Epstein's hacked Yahoo inbox, vetted and published by Distributed Denial of Secrets, Rujcki had founded a personal genomic startup called 23andMe. You may have heard of that. And Maxwell encouraged Epstein to cultivate a relationship with her. Be v nice to her, not stupid. Maxwell wrote, she's interested in mapping DNA, et cetera. She is key. Smiley face. She is key.

[Ryan Grim]

I mean, it is interesting that her, his sort of girlfriend, best friend, has to remind him, look, we know that you're a disgusting creature.

[Crystal Ball]

Reel it in a bit.

[Ryan Grim]

Try not to be a disgusting creature around this particular woman because you need her for your other disgusting venture, which is this hacking of the world's DNA.

[Crystal Ball]

She was so lucky to have Ghislaine. Everyone needs a.

[Ryan Grim]

Like that.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah, everyone needs a Ghislaine.

[Ryan Grim]

You put up the next element here. Epstein's interest in gene editing was not purely intellectual. It was personal. Joe Thakoria, Church's Harvard Medical School colleague, helped Epstein conduct research on his own genome. In June 2014, Thakuria sent Epstein $193,400 invoice for a package deal to mutate his adult stem cells to increase longevity, noting that, quote, if we do this, he, like George Church, would be one of very few people in the world to have this done, unquote. Later that year, Epstein tried to arrange a meeting between Church and Bill to discuss, quote, anti aging and genetic fabrications. This is 2014. This is when Brian Johnson's what? In middle school, Jeffrey Epstein walked.

[Crystal Ball]

No, he's going to be in middle school in about 20 years.

[Ryan Grim]

So Brian Johnson could do whatever it is he's doing.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, you just see the levels of people who are being wrapped into this big picture scheme. And also to go to the lengths of having this sprawling New Mexico ranch where you can work on these things like it's a Manhattan Project. You can see that's why I think your story is so important. You can see how important this was to Epstein's broader project of wrapping up powerful people together. We can put the next one up on the screen. Another thing here from the report where you guys say the files released by the DOJ and oversight committee have shown Epstein deeply preoccupied with theories of racial and genetic superiority. In an anonymous essay recovered from Epstein's files titled Africa par parasites Intelligence the writer mused that for Africa the environmental factors parasites disease known to exert a strong negative effect on intelligence. Quote. And what is special about Jewish intelligence? The author asked. Surely it is that it emerged in mercantile settings natural home of numbers, logic and mathematics. You guys go on right? Calculations about the long term viability of the Israeli state and anxieties about the demographics of its Jewish people formed a backdrop to Epstein and Barack Ehud Barack's engagement with Vladimir Putin. In the last years of Epstein's life, Barack shared grave concerns with Epstein about Israel's looming demographic crisis. During a dinner at Epstein's New York mansion in February 2013, Barack told former Obama economic adviser Larry Summers that Israel needed to solve needs to solve its Jewish population shortage quote before it's too late and stop the quote slippery slope to a one state nation with an Arab majority.

[Ryan Grim]

And so yeah, so there you can see how Epstein's kind of eugenics and supremacy, you know, flow are held and are shared by his good friends. So Ehud Barak, former prime minister of Israel that's in that three and a half hour conversation that was released by the Department of Justice. And Barak's Barak makes this argument that right now it's too difficult for you to convert to Judaism and then become an Israeli citizen. So what they need to do is take control from the rabbinical institutions that currently guide it, make it more liberal so that you can then get a bunch of Russians who are not Jewish but would rather, he says, like they'd rather be Jewish than Russian or something like that. He's got some silly line so you can leave Russia, come to Israel, convert to Judaism and then that's his counterweight to the Arab population. And he complains that the early Zionist settlers had to rely on undesirable brown Mizrahi and Ethiopian other Jews from Africa and the Middle east who Jewish so the Jewish state had to take them in. But Barak is saying that's that was deeply unfortunate.

[Crystal Ball]

So disgusting.

[Ryan Grim]

The Mizrahi bigotry in Israel. There's this undercurrent of it. It's not discussed a lot, but there is a lot of Mizrahi Jews in Israel complain about being treated as second class citizens there. And this shows that Ehud Barak, who is considered to be like on the left of the Israeli political spectrum, completely holds that bigoted view that they would rather have non Jews from Russia who are white. But wait till he learns that like lots of Russians are pretty brown. Maybe he's going to make sure they're like from the western part of Russia.

[Crystal Ball]

Also, the entire state of Israel is supposed to be in theory, an anti eugenics bulwark.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes. Every accusation is a confession. It's on and on and on, all the way down.

[Crystal Ball]

And Ryan, finally take us to Ukraine here.

[Ryan Grim]

And so, yeah, so last one here.

[Crystal Ball]

On our world tour of Epstein Eugenics.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, so put the last one up in the final year. This will bring us to modern day. In the final year. Before his death, Epstein supported a bio lab in Ukraine for the production of designer babies led by hacker Brian Bishop. On July 21, 2018, Epstein wrote to Bishop, I have no issue with investing. The problem is only if I am seen to lead now, because already 2018, the heat is on him at this point. Bishop wrote back, I have always envisioned there would be anonymity requirements about babies. Obviously we can't publicly identify who these are or their parents or benefactors. It would brand the child as essentially and sadly a freak for life in the media anyway, Ukraine bio labs that make designer babies.

[Crystal Ball]

And let us not forget a 2013 email with a redacted sender to Epstein that says, quote, you offered to buy my baby six months into our relationship.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, and none of this would be worth talking about if this guy wasn't operating at the very upper echelons of elite global society. That's what you hear everything we said for the last 10 minutes and you'd be like, all right, this is a total crank and kook. Well, I wish.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah, I was gonna say. I mean, the reason that I got into some of these emails actually is because I was searching the DOJ library for nsa. I was just typing in, they're like three letter agencies. And when I got to nsa, you see the former White House counsel Kathy Rumler is talking like, there's a calendar invite for Kathy, NSA signal intelligence. There's some like, fairly open conversation that seems to imply Epstein is aware she's NSA or CIA affiliated. She brags to him about getting a CIA award from John Brennan. And so he's moving in intelligence circles. There's a former CBS News producer named Dan Dubno in these emails who Epstein meets in. I think they formally meet in 2009 or their relationship begins in 2009. You can see it in the emails. And Epstein asked him to connect him to NSA codebreakers and Israeli hackers. And Dubno offers that up on a silver platter. He's, he's kind of a technologist.

[Ryan Grim]

I got you.

[Crystal Ball]

But a CBS News producer, I think a PBS producer as well.

[Ryan Grim]

Emmy award winner, blogger.

[Crystal Ball]

Goes into, yeah, it goes into technology. And is openly trying to help Epstein in these emails get connected to people at NSA and in Israeli hacker world. So the odds that Epstein had also Boris Nikolic, who was working like a top Bill Gates adviser.

[Ryan Grim]

Right?

[Crystal Ball]

This is like Bill Gates, his top scientific adviser is offering to help connect Epstein with NSA people. So the odds that he actually was in connection with NSA people are very.

[Ryan Grim]

Although, yeah, but he needed help to get there, so he clearly wasn't working for them.

[Crystal Ball]

But just to say that the odds that he actually ended up having access to some folks in these spaces is high.

[Ryan Grim]

And as you read the story, you'll see what his real key skill is. He connects mit, Gates and the Russian, you know, the Skolnik or Skolnovik, whatever it's called. Basically the Russian mit. Russian tech incubator for this technology transfer project that was very influential and he's kind of key to that. So anyway, worth the read. Job numbers are out. We'll talk about that later. 130,000 jobs, which is beating expectations, which is actually going to make Trump mad. We'll talk about why that is next. Military life isn't predictable, but earning your master's degree can be. With American Military University's 40 flexible online master's programs, you can stay mission ready while you get market ready. Learn anywhere, anytime, with an education built to keep pace, steady, reliable and always accessible. Plus, military service members, veterans and and their families can save up to 45% on master's tuition with AMU's special rates and grants. Learn more at AMU Apus Edu. Steady through every mission. You don't just live in your home, you live in your neighborhood as well. So when you're shopping for a home, you want to know as much about the area around it as possible. Luckily, homes.com has got you covered. Each listing features a comprehensive neighborhood guide from local experts. Everything you'd ever want to know about a neighborhood, including the number of homes for sale and transportation, local amenities, cultural attractions, unique qualities and even things like medium lot size and a noise score homes dot com. We've done your homework. Can you grab one more thing? I'll come back up for you. At Amica Insurance, we know you'll always find ways to look out for the people you love. And with Amica Life Insurance, we'll help.

[Crystal Ball]

Build a plan to make sure you always can.

[Ryan Grim]

We're here to help protect the life you've built.

[Crystal Ball]

Really? I gotta have another one.

[Ryan Grim]

Amica empathy is our best policy. Visit amica.com and get a quote. Today.

[Crystal Ball]

Much anticipated jobs report just out this morning and beating expectations. We can put this headline up on the screen from cnbc which says U.S. payrolls rose by 130,000 in January, more than expected unemployment rate at 4.3%. Now, quote, more than expected in the headline is doing some work because it was the Trump administration explicitly trying to downplay the jobs report to temper expectations and making an argument for why people should temper their expectations about the jobs report just yesterday. So we have the Trump administration reacting now, this is going to be C1B guys to the jobs report by saying this is the Trump economy. New job growth surged in January, adding 130k total non farm jobs and 172 private sector jobs, shattering expectations once again. The unemployment rate fell, wages grew. Federal employment is now at its lowest level since 1966. Okay, so before we get analysis from Ryan Grim, let's roll. Peter Navarro, just yesterday responding to questions about what the administration expected to see from the jobs report when it was released today.

[Ryan Grim]

The jobs report's going to come out tomorrow. Yeah, we have to revise our expectations down significantly for what a monthly job number should look like. When we were letting in 2 million illegal aliens. Just they're coming in, coming in. We had to produce 200,000 jobs a month for steady state. And by the way, all of the jobs that we were creating in Biden years going to illegals. Americans were going to the unemployment lines. That's totally reversed. And now 50,000amonth is going to be more like what we need. So Wall street, when this stuff comes out, they can't, they can't rain on that parade. They have to adjust for the fact that we're deporting millions of illegals. That's a good point. Out of our job market. But it sounds like you're expecting a weak number tomorrow. No, not expecting a weak number. I'm just saying that going forward, when we see a number under 100,000 we don't ring our hands, we say, yeah, that's going to be steady state.

[Crystal Ball]

Okay, so Ryan, today then, they're now saying this is a great jobs report beats expectations. This is the Trump economy. They're the ones who set those expectations.

[Ryan Grim]

Interestingly enough, I think they're going to regret saying this is the Trump economy, but at some point you just have to own it anyway. So digging into the numbers a little bit more, there are some, there are some other positive developments of Dean Baker, flagging a few here. One of the best ones in here, the number of people who are part time involuntary, in other words, they want more work than they can get, fell by 450,000 people.

[Crystal Ball]

That's great.

[Ryan Grim]

That's great. So that means people who are part time have been able to get more work. It says the share of job quitters among the unemployed rose to 13.7%. You want the unemployed to be people who quit their jobs rather than people who got fired. For somebody who wants to support workers, you want people to feel the confidence in an economy to be able to quit and then find a new job. So the fact that it rose slightly to 13.7%, it's not high. That means like 80 plus percent were forced into joblessness. But to see that number go up is good. And people holding multiple jobs, that number fell back a little bit. So all those are all good things. The negative, I would say, is that 86,000 of the jobs, which is two thirds of the gain, are. This is if the numbers are accurate and we get all these revisions down the road are in health care and healthcare is a very interesting component of gdp. So my wife, when she was going through treatment, one of the chemo sessions was $117,000. That's what they billed the insurance. I don't want the insurance. Eventually, one session paying one session, that's antibodies and chemotherapy one day, that is a sign of a completely shattered economy. But to the GDP, if the insurance company paid that entire amount, GDP would reflect a growth of $117,000. But it's like, wait a minute. Really, I'm not so sure about that. Like, not so sure that that's what we think of when we think of economic growth. And so we are an aging society. We're also, to his point, if we have deported several million people, we're mostly deporting people under 40 and under 30. So not only are we seeing declining birth rates and an aging population, our immigration policy would also tilt our numbers older, which is going to mean more and more Spending on health care as we go month to month. And so my point is that that's not really people's idea of a growing economy spending more money taking care of sicker older people. But, you know, it's good that there are more jobs.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah, obviously true. But Ryan, this also included the annual revisions to the oh, one other stat from Dean. Oh, yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

And then over the last year, health care accounted for 122% of job growth. So other than healthcare, that means we have lost jobs over the last year.

[Crystal Ball]

Right.

[Ryan Grim]

So if you're out there and you don't work in health care and you're like, wait a minute, jobs are booming. I don't understand that doesn't make sense to me.

[Crystal Ball]

Right.

[Ryan Grim]

Well, jobs are actually down over the last year, except for health care.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah. Well, and what the Trump administration is obviously trying to do with tariff policies. And Howard Lutnick, Commerce Secretary, was not just asked about Epstein yesterday in front of the preparations committee. He was also getting questions about the administration's tariff policies, which came up for a vote in the House. At the end of the day, we put C6 up on the screen. Skip ahead here. Because Mike Johnson tried to wrangle Republicans to block an effort that would allow for Congress to vote on the tariff policies. It failed. Spoiler. It failed. This is from earlier in the day, quote, Johnson says it's full steam ahead on tariff vote ban. Well, three Republicans ended up voting with Democrats. The Senate. I think it's been four Republicans in the Senate who have voted against the Trump administration's tariff policy. Now, this is not veto proof majority space. So there's no legislative, serious legislative will to overturn the Trump tariffs. But let's listen to Howard Lutnick answering questions just yesterday in front of the Appropriations Committee. C5. President Trump ran on lowering folks costs.

[Ryan Grim]

And the cost of housing is not going down.

[Crystal Ball]

We need to build millions more homes.

[Ryan Grim]

And the home building boom we need.

[Crystal Ball]

Is in part not happening because of tariffs on lumber, drywall, kitchen cabinets, bathroom vanities. I think the home builders estimate they're raising the cost of a new home by more than $17,000. Would you support legislation to temporarily halt or provide for a tariff exemption process for specific tariffs on home building supplies?

[Ryan Grim]

It's a broad, complex issue. If we want to make furniture in America, you have to protect furniture makers. That type of question is a very detailed and complex one and worthy of discussion. And I'm glad to sit with you in your office to talk about it. What do we want to make in America And Whatever we don't want to make in America, we should try to do inexpensively to the extent we can. Well, thank you.

[Crystal Ball]

I look forward to the conversation. My concern is that, that overwhelmingly the supply of things like softwood lumber from Canada and wallboard or gypsum board from Mexico are being constrained by tariffs. These are close allies that work with us through the USMCA framework. They've pushed back hard on the tariffs that are being imposed on their products that are exported into our market. Canada is the largest export market from most American states. I think at a time when there's very little we can actually do in the short term to reduce the cost of housing, this is something we might work together on. This is actually a pretty interesting exchange because obviously the Trump administration's answer to that is they want to initiate a transition period. That might be painful and.

[Ryan Grim]

But to what? We're going to grow more trees. Like, this is the brain dead part of it that killed me. It's like, like tariffing maple syrup. Like, what are we going to. Like, we're going to have George just grow a bunch of like maple trees and all and start making maple syrup. Like, Vermont's doing what it can, otherwise we're getting it from Canada. Same is true with lumber. Like, you want to just go through like the Rockies and just chop down all the trees. Like, and like, like, what's the, like, domestic wood alternative that he's trying to incubate here?

[Crystal Ball]

What are they doing to the other part of that is what are they doing to potentially nurture the domestic production of industry X, Y and Z. And is the method right?

[Ryan Grim]

And if it's raw materials like wood, it's like we either have it or we don't.

[Crystal Ball]

And if it's the.

[Ryan Grim]

We're not growing bananas in like Seattle.

[Crystal Ball]

What if we need it too? Like, and this is why. Yeah, like, they eased one of these coffee tariffs.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes, we have Hawaiian coffee. Like, that's it. Like, we're not.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Soccer said there's like one guy in California who tried to go California grow coffee in California was terrible.

[Crystal Ball]

It doesn't sound good.

[Ryan Grim]

So it's like, what do you, like, stop. Like, we're not going to have a, like continental US Coffee industry. It's not going to happen.

[Crystal Ball]

Is another broad economic indicator to bring in here holiday retail sales. This is C4. We should put this up on the screen, actually. Kind of interesting. Holiday retail sales, according to Lisa Abramowicz was were the highest consumer delinquencies since 2017. Those paint, she says A bleak picture for lower income and younger Americans. So you have disappointing holiday retail sales and then higher consumer delinquencies since 2017, according to Commerce Department numbers that just came out. So, again, piece of the puzzle about where the economy really is. The Trump world spin. This is from EJ Antoni, who was the heritage guy plucked to run BLS and then was kind of kicked out of the administration. He says the real story of today's jobs reports quote, Trump was handed an economy that was losing private sector jobs and adding government payrolls, but he successfully flipped the script and one year later, it's all private sector growth while cutting government jobs. But, Ryan, where want private sector growth is the key question. And that's the question that comes to the table when Lutnick is talking to Chris Coons. Because do they want private sector growth all in health care, or do they want it in manufacturing? Do they want it in particular industries that they're trying to revitalize? And what's their timetable for that?

[Ryan Grim]

Right. And if you want to do that, why are you making the cost of their inputs go up? Yeah, like, I'm not against helping American manufacturers. I think be great. They're hurting them. Like, what are you doing?

[Crystal Ball]

We'll see. That's their, I mean, meatheads, the process. Disentangling the process, too, from the end goal, which actually I think almost all of us, Ryan, you, Crystal, Sagar and I are all fairly protectionist on an ideological level. But so the end goal being separated from the process is important. And Trump's process has been wacky, to say the very least. To say the very least. So interesting numbers today. Interesting.

[Ryan Grim]

Oh, and I was saying the reason Trump could be upset by this is that you're already seeing interest rates go up a little bit.

[Crystal Ball]

This is a good point.

[Ryan Grim]

Because the Fed wants to. The Fed is expected by the markets to be less likely to reduce interest rates. So you're already seeing 10 year notes are up 30 years. Up a little bit. Because they're saying, oh, the economy's actually pretty good. So we don't want to cut interest rates because the economy's good. And Trump's like, this is the greatest economy ever. You should cut rates. It's like, well, those things are in conflict with dogmatic, conventional understanding of how the economy's supposed to operate.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah. And just final point on all of this is you mentioned at the top of the show the Dario, the Daria Mode essay that was super viral. A 20,000 word essay. And there's another one that's going super viral right now from a guy in AI called Matt Schumer. He just titled it Something Big Is Happening. It's linked everywhere. And Andrew Yang has a new post on his substack called the AI Meltdown. So this is the Trump administration that has been paddled to the metal on the AI boom and is now in the middle of a generational, by its own description, historic trade war. All of that is happening against the backdrop of a labor revolution that is accelerating literally by the day and is going to accelerate to proportions I don't think anybody fully yet understands through the rest of the Trump administration. And so you have the trade war and the AI revolution happening at the same time that I don't think anybody is prepared for, let alone this administration. And it's happening in the backdrop right now. Moving very quickly to the foreground, people are about to graduate from annual college graduations coming up in a few months, likely to see historic levels of unemployment among recent college graduates. We're already seeing that. Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Military life isn't predictable, but earning your master's degree can be. With American Military University's 40 flexible online master's programs, you can stay mission ready while you get market ready. Learn anywhere, anytime, with an education built to keep pace steady, reliable and always accessible. Plus, military service members, veterans and their families can save up to 45% on master's tuition with AMU's special rates and grants. Learn more at AMU Apus edu steady.

[Crystal Ball]

Through every mission homes.com knows having the right agent can make or break your home search. That's why they provide home shoppers with an agent directory that gives you a detailed look at each agent's experience, like the number of closed sales in a specific neighborhood, average price range, and more. It lets you easily connect with all the agents in the area you're searching so you can find the right agent with the right experience and ultimately the right home for you. Homes.com, we've done your homework.

[Ryan Grim]

There's no championship league for small business owners, but if there was, you'd be at the top of the standings. Because going pro with Lenovo Pro means you've got the winning formation. One on one advice IT solutions and customized hardware powered by Intel Core Ultra processors help you stay ahead of the competition. Business goes pro with Lenovo Pro Sign up for [e-mail] Pro Lenovo Lenovo.

[Crystal Ball]

This.

[Ryan Grim]

Is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.