2/17/25: Bibi Claims Trump Support For Iran Bombing, Jon Stewart Stuns Jen Psaki, Luigi Breaks Silence, Woke Vs Based Game

Summary

Podcast Summary: Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Episode: February 17, 2025
Title: Bibi Claims Trump Support For Iran Bombing, Jon Stewart Stuns Jen Psaki, Luigi Breaks Silence, Woke Vs Based Game
Hosts: Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti
Release Date: February 17, 2025

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1. Israel’s Potential Strike on Iran and Trump's Involvement

Krystal and Saagar kick off the episode by delving into the escalating tensions in the Middle East, particularly focusing on Israel's potential strike on Iran’s nuclear facilities. The hosts analyze recent developments based on a Washington Post report indicating that U.S. intelligence officials are concerned about an imminent Israeli attack on Iran.

• Krystal highlights:

  "Israel likely to strike Iran in coming months, warns U.S. intelligence."
  (02:03)

They discuss Netanyahu's assertions that he has Trump's backing for such an operation. Referencing Trump's recent Fox News interview, Krystal emphasizes Trump's dual stance:

• Trump stated:

  "We will not allow Iran to have a nuclear weapon. One is we blow up their nuclear facilities. Two is that we get a deal. I'd much rather get a deal than launch a war."
  (02:40)

Despite his preference for diplomacy, Trump does not entirely rule out supporting an Israeli military action if deemed necessary.

2. Hostage Negotiations and Phase Two Deal

The conversation shifts to the complexities of the hostage negotiations between Israel and Hamas. Krystal and Saagar analyze the Steve Witkoff-mediated deal, which successfully secured the release of several hostages but failed to achieve all desired outcomes.

• Krystal notes:

  "Netanyahu has authorized his negotiators to go back to Cairo for phase two, which includes exchanging remaining hostages and reconstructing Gaza."
  (07:47)

Saagar questions the sudden resurgence of phase two negotiations amid the Washington Post leak, suggesting potential behind-the-scenes maneuvering by former Biden officials:

• Saagar comments:

  "The Washington Post report is very troubling. It feels like the Biden people leaked it to discredit current efforts."
  (09:29)

3. Trump’s Foreign Policy Maneuvering

The hosts explore Trump’s foreign policy strategies, particularly his "madman theory"—a tactic of appearing unpredictable to gain leverage in negotiations. Krystal posits that Trump may be acting erratically to build political capital, preparing to support diplomatic deals while maintaining the option of military intervention.

• Krystal explains:

  "If Trump is acting like a madman now, it could be to set the stage for him to broker a deal down the line."
  (10:48)

Saagar reflects on Trump’s inconsistent actions, citing the 2018 incident where an unmanned spy plane was shot down over Iran. Krystal adds that while Trump claims to seek peace, his rhetoric often undermines this objective, leaving room for misinterpretation by allied leaders like Netanyahu.

4. Democratic Party’s Struggles and Activism

Transitioning to domestic politics, Krystal and Saagar critique the current state of the Democratic Party. They express frustration over the party's loss of momentum and inability to galvanize its base effectively.

• Krystal laments:

  "Democrats just lost everything. They control nothing. They don't control the House, the Senate, the White House, or the Supreme Court."
  (28:54)

The hosts discuss internal conflicts and leadership struggles, particularly focusing on Hakeem Jeffries's role. Krystal points out that despite Jeffries being a capable communicator, his recent performances indicate a lack of confidence and direction within the party.

• Krystal observes:

  "Having someone like Jeffries sound so bad suggests that the Democrats really just don't have their footing."
  (38:00)

Saagar agrees, noting that Democratic activism appears disjointed and struggles to present a unified front, especially in light of challenges like anti-Semitism and the party's response to internal scandals.

5. Luigi Mangione’s Controversial Case

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the high-profile case of Luigi Mangione, a figure whose actions have polarized public opinion. The hosts dissect the legal charges against him and the unusual public support he has garnered despite allegations of murder.

• Krystal relays Mangione’s attorney statement:

  "I am overwhelmed by and grateful for everyone who has written me to share their stories and express their support."
  (41:52)

Saagar expresses confusion and frustration over the public's support for Mangione, comparing the situation to other notorious cases where support for accused individuals is unexpected.

• Saagar remarks:

  "Serial killers also get support like this apparently all the time. So what do I know, there's a weird segment of the public out there."
  (44:59)

The hosts highlight the legal intricacies of Mangione's case, including state and federal charges, and speculate on the public's fascination with his persona despite serious accusations.

6. Woke vs. Based: Analyzing Breitbart’s Antitrust Critique

In the final segment, Krystal and Saagar engage in their signature "Woke vs. Based" game, critiquing a Breitbart article that attacks Biden’s antitrust policies under the guise of labeling them "woke."

• Krystal introduces the segment:

  "In this Breitbart article, they accuse Doha Meki of pushing a woke agenda against Big Tech by targeting antitrust policies."
  (50:40)

They dissect the claims, evaluating whether Doha Meki’s actions align with "woke" or "based" ideologies. The analysis reveals that Meki’s enforcement of antitrust laws to prevent wage-fixing and monopolistic practices is more aligned with "based" principles aimed at protecting economic fairness.

• Saagar concludes:

  "I would personally say based. Telling a company what to do and not to exploit people is supposed to be based."
  (53:37)

The hosts critique Breitbart for mischaracterizing legitimate regulatory actions as ideological overreach, pointing out the flawed framing that conflates antitrust enforcement with cultural "wokeness."

Notable Quotes

• Krystal:

  "Israel likely to strike Iran in coming months, warns U.S. intelligence."
  (02:03)

• Trump:

  "We will not allow Iran to have a nuclear weapon. One is we blow up their nuclear facilities. Two is that we get a deal. I'd much rather get a deal than launch a war."
  (02:40)

• Sagar:

  "I'm worried about the Israel thing only because it does seem that Israel has played him very well."
  (14:44)

• Krystal:

  "If you don't have economic liberty, you don't have the ability to fight for political and civil rights."
  (60:03)

Conclusion

In this episode of Breaking Points, Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti provide a multifaceted analysis of significant geopolitical tensions involving Israel and Iran, the intricate dynamics within the Democratic Party, the perplexing case of Luigi Mangione, and the misrepresentation of antitrust policies as "woke" by conservative media. Their insightful discussions underscore the complexities of modern politics, the interplay between foreign policy decisions and domestic struggles, and the nuanced battle over ideological narratives.

Listeners gain a thorough understanding of how international actions reflect domestic political strategies, the challenges faced by opposition parties in maintaining unity and direction, and the critical examination of media framing in shaping public perception. The episode encapsulates the hosts' commitment to holding power accountable and dissecting the undercurrents that shape current events.

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This summary is designed to provide a comprehensive overview of the podcast episode, capturing all key discussions, insights, and notable quotes for those who have not listened to the full episode.

Transcript

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[Sagar]

Sagar and Krystal here.

[Krystal]

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We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see [e-mail].

[Krystal]

A lot of new developments out of Israel, particularly as it relates to Netanyahu's claims that war with Iran may be in the offing and that the Trump administration is okay with it. This started last week with a quiet peace in the Washington Post. Israel likely to strike Iran in coming months, warns U.S. intelligence. And so think about the structure there us this is it's key that this is in the Washington Post. You know, this is Washington D.C. 's newspaper. U.S. intelligence officials leaked to that paper that they're concerned that Israel is going to strike Iran. There was a previous assessment under the outgoing Biden administration that there was a very high likelihood that Israel would strike Iran within the first six months of 2025. At the time, the Biden administration weighed whether or not it would kind of publicly endorse a move like that and decided not to. Israel now Netanyahu now saying that he really has Trump's buy in for this attack. Trump himself gave an interview with Fox News recently where he said something very similar to what Witkoff said. And we'll roll Witkoff in a second. Trump said, we will not allow Iran to have a nuclear weapon. And there's two ways to stop that. One is we blow up their nuclear facilities. Two is that we get a deal. And he says he would much rather get a deal than launch a war. That's what you're hearing from Trump, but he's not ruling out that he would support an Israeli strike. We can. Here's Steve Witkoff recently in an interview talking about the role that Iran is playing in these ongoing Israeli negotiations.

[Lenovo Representative]

Role C3 Iran is the benefactor, but of course, the largest issue is the nuclear. And the President has said they will not get a bomb. Them getting a bomb is devastating to the region.

[Krystal]

It will force every other country in.

[Lenovo Representative]

That region to get a bomb too. We'll have a nuclear arms race. And that simply can't happen. But the President has also said this can be solved diplomatically. And if Iran shows.

[Krystal]

An interest in.

[Lenovo Representative]

Solving it diplomatically, the American government remains open to those discussions. And so I hope that it can be solved diplomatically because the alternative is.

[Krystal]

Not such a good alternative. And so we've talked about this before, that all of this is happening in the context of the Israel Gaza war. And if the Israeli assault on Gaza were the only thing, were a kind of isolated geopolitical contest, then Trump's support for Netanyahu's ability to just wipe it off the map I think would be unchecked.

[Sagar]

I totally agree.

[Krystal]

But it's happening in the context of this more regional consideration where Trump very much wants a Saudi Israeli peace deal, normalization between the two. He also wants an Iran nuclear deal. I think he sees this as, you know, a potential legacy item. It's deeply ironic, of course, cuz Obama struck one and then Trump immediately ripped it up. But now he believes that he can be, you know, recognized as this great dealmaker if he can get, just get back into the deal that he ripped up. And so it is the one thing that is giving the ceasefire oxygen and giving it, giving it legs, keeping it alive. You put up C4 here. This is from drop site's Twitter feed. So basically, Israel struck and killed two police officers in Gaza who were guarding an aid convoy. Hamas has said that Israel's continuing to attack and kill people inside Gaza, you know, puts the ceasefire in jeopardy. They said the attack on Palestinian police officers guarding aid trucks in southern Gaza, quote, clear violation of the ceasefire. Trump, quote, and then says that Trump should not believe that it's going to be easy to go along with Netanyahu's idea here and Trump's idea that they're just going to clear everybody out. Trump, quote, has no clue about the resistance of the Palestinians. He has no clue about how the Palestinians are connected to their homeland. It's not real estate, it's a homeland. He argued that every time Israeli officials have spoken about the, quote, elimination of Hamas, the group has only grown stronger. And I do think it is accurate to say that every time Trump says that when he wants all of the Palestinians out and he's not going to let them back, his position gets weaker. You say that out loud. You're not going to win people over that way. And so that is what Trump is saying, but what Trump is actually doing is the status quo. On Saturday, you had the hostage exchange go off as planned. So you had all of this talk about war with Iran, Trump and Netanyahu demanding that every single hostage needed to be out by Saturday or else they were going to. All hell will break again. All hell will break loose again. Nothing happened.

[Sagar]

Yeah, at least.

[Krystal]

And instead Witkoff gets back in there and he's like, no, we've got a deal. We're gonna continue with this deal. And so the deal goes off. So the latest news is that Netanyahu, he spoke last night at this major pro Israel conference. He has authorized, finally, his negotiators to go back to Cairo and continue with the negotiations toward phase two. And phase two is the part that Witkoff is trying to make sure is completed, because that is the part where all of the remaining hostages are exchanged and reconstruction is then supposed to begin. And it's supposed to be a permanent ceasefire. The question of what role Hamas plays is the one that's being negotiated. Hamas is sending a lot of signals that they're willing to just step back, that they're willing to demilitarize, that a technical bunch of technocrats either affiliated with the Palestinian Authority or not, but under the auspices of the guarantee of us, Egypt, uae, others could actually be the ones to play a role in the reconstruction that they understand that that may be the thing that has to happen. It is telling that it is the Israelis who are the obstacle to this situation. Because, you know, once they make that concession, at that point, what's the argument from Israel that you can't allow this? Like they've said, like, you know, surrender and give us the hostages and it's over. And that's effectively what they would be saying.

[Sagar]

So what do you make then of this reversion back to phase two? Cause first we were first the deal was off, now the deal is back on. Why? For what purpose? Is it some grand deal with Iran? Because that Washington Post report is very troubling. Right. Is that basically the Biden people at the end? Of course. By the way, they leak it at the end. They're like, by the way, while we were in office, we discovered they wanted to attack Iran. I'm like, well, maybe you shouldn't have done something about it. But, oh, that would be asking too much.

[Krystal]

Unfortunately, one possibility is that. So think about it this way. If Trump really does want a permanent ceasefire, Saudi Israeli normalization and an Iran nuclear deal, that costs a lot of capital with the Miriam Adelson kind of wing of his financing. So if he really does want that, what does he have to do? He has to build up capital first. And how do you build up capital, green light? By being a complete lunatic in hey, you want to ethnically cleanse all of Gaza, Go for it, I'll do it for you. I'll do it for you. Yeah, and you see this too with North Korea. He'll talk about wiping them off the face of the earth and then he'll come in and do the thing he wants to do, which is some type of a.

[Sagar]

So you're buying the madman theory.

[Krystal]

So I think if you do buy that he wants a deal here, it is rational that he would at this point be acting like a madman so that when Netanyahu later gets screwed, Trump can say, look, I did everything I could. I was even willing to do full on ethnic cleansing for you, but it's just not feasible. So we have to get serious about this. And Egypt is saying that they've got a plan where it's a three to five year reconstruction, does not involve Hamas anymore, and the government pay for it, UAE and Saudi will pay for it. And look, I would love to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians even more than you would, but Bibi, it's just not feasible. It's not doable. And I'm not sending American troops. And when you send Israeli Troops, all they do is do tiktoks and get themselves killed and lead to ICC indictments and ICJ allegations of genocide and the complete just embarrassing yourself and further isolating yourself on the world stage. So look, can't do that. We're gonna have to do a deal. Like that's a best case scenario perhaps, right?

[Sagar]

What's the mid case scenario? Cause what if it's all just torn? It's all just. What I can't get my head around is why. Cause as you just said. And look, if Obama had ever say all hell will break loose and then didn't attack Hamas after they the red line, can you imagine, can you imagine what the Tom Cottons and all of them of the world would look like? I've always seen Trump as somebody who talks big but never actually wants to follow through. I mean, occasionally you can point to a few things. The Qasem Soleimani killing, for example. But there were a lot of. I mean, actually I was supposed to interview Trump the day. Remember that American spy plane that got shot down? It was unmanned, it was like a, it was a navy plane that was shot down right around then 2018. And I was supposed to interview him. That day got canceled and apparently what came out is that Trump had ordered a retaliatory strike that John Bolton had been pushing. But then at the last minute he was like, hey, you know what? We shouldn't kill any of these Iranians. They didn't kill any of our people. Let's not kill anyone. Kill any of theirs. Bolton and all of them were furious. He seems to be, he seems to have like a duality inside him.

[Krystal]

Oh yeah.

[Sagar]

Where it's like on the one hand, says we're gonna ethnically, we're gonna own Gaza, we're gonna ethnically cleanse it ourselves. I'll do it for you. And then on the other hand, he's like, maybe we should sit with Russia and China and we'll all just cut all of our military spending. And you're like, wait, what? He's like, which one of these is true? What's going on here? So, yeah, I don't know. I'm worried about the Israel thing only because it does seem that Israel has played him very well. Not only do they have the Miriam Adelson connection, they have effectively. While yes, Trump has pushed them around Wyckoff and others, he does obviously accept the framing on Iran. You and I know institutionally nothing would make more political sense in Washington terms than to support an Israeli strike on Iran. That's where the majority of the GOP is now. There are important characters in the Trump universe, J.D. i would hope, being one of them. But also many of the people who Trump has appointed to the Pentagon oppose the very type of strike. Very strongly opposed. And so maybe they will win out. Are they even in the room? We don't know. And so that's what I think that the big war behind the scenes is. But I mean, look, at the very least, I'm just happy. Let phase two go. Three, let people stop getting killed.

[Krystal]

Yeah. The risk in Trump's madman strategy, of course, is that Netanyahu won't recognize it for just the madness that it is and think it's real. In Netanyahu's speech last night to this pro Israel conference, he said, you know, Trump's idea for Gaza has opened up possibilities for us that we never even dreamed were possible and we are going to pursue that with everything we have.

[Sagar]

Yeah.

[Krystal]

So he thinks he's taking Trump seriously and literally, and he's going to. And he's going to try to take this moment to effectuate what Trump put out as a possibility. The question is, can Witkoff reel him in enough? And how much agency does Netanyahu actually have? And we don't know. Meanwhile, let's talk about a little bit of the reporting that's been coming out lately. 972 in Israeli investigative news outlet. We actually partnered with them on a story about a month ago, reminder that their stuff has to go through a sensor. So the stuff that comes out has been already pre. Yes. So consider that when you think about the pieces that have been coming out of there, when you put up C5 this is an investigation by Yuval Abraham in 972 which exposed one of the more horrifying cinematic horror film anecdotes. The IDF came across a couple in their 80s who told the Israeli soldiers that because of their disabilities, the man walks with a cane, that they were unable to evacuate the area with their family. And so they're still in northern Gaza. And this is according to 972 and like I said, went through the censorship. They strap explosives around this couple and use them as human shields. They call them mosquitoes is one of the terms for them. Use them as human shields, going through the neighborhood while they're clearing it of Hamas fighters and then at the end execute them. Just levels of criminality on display, almost unimaginable. And this comes after 972 very recently reported that the IDF had discovered that when it dropped these bunker buster Bombs that as a consequence of the explosion, it released an enormous amount of carbon monoxide and basically burning up all of the oxygen in these tunnels. And so they understood that this was a conventional bomb that operated as a chemical weapon. And that if they knew or if they guessed that somebody that they were trying to kill was in a tunnel, but they didn't know within 500 meters or more where they were, they could drop some of these bunker busters and it would asphyxiate, it would suffocate everyone in the tunnel. What 972 also reported is that there were essentially no precautions taken to make sure that there were no hostages in the area. And they know for a fact now that as a result of that, a significant number of Israeli hostages were suffocated through this bomb and asphyxiate strategy. Eventually they started requiring commanders to take some assessment of whether or not they were going to kill hostages. And so the killing of hostages has apparently diminished recently. Horrific but absolutely horrifying stuff coming out of 972. So any thoughts on any of this before we go? Move to the next one.

[Sagar]

So just don't even say it's just horrible. Yeah, I mean it makes sense and it feeds. Or, sorry, it fits with the testimony of a lot of the surviving hostages about the.

[Krystal]

Their number one fear was the constant bombing.

[Sagar]

They could remember. They said they're like, I could hear the bombs falling above me. It's just horrifying.

[Krystal]

Constantly. And then two other things to talk about before we move on. Curious for your take on this? I think it's within the realm of possibility.

[Sagar]

If he pulls off phase two, then yes, there's a lot to be said.

[Krystal]

Fascinating political piece here. Trump privately calls Steve Witkoff, quote, a modern day Kissinger. And if there's going to be an American diplomat who shakes up American foreign policy and actually gets something accomplished, it would stand to reason that it would be somebody that comes from out of the fold. And I think I've seen you talking about this. In some ways, international real estate is as good, the perfect realm, good a training ground. It's almost as good as when Trump made Exxon CEO Rex Tillerson the Secretary of State.

[Sagar]

Although he was a terrible secretary, it.

[Krystal]

Turned out to be terrible. But you would think that being the CEO of Exxon would actually be an American diplomat.

[Sagar]

I'll tell you, I'm very pro Witkoff. Wyckoff has all of the ingredients that you need for a great international diplomat. International finance, worked in Vegas, used to putting together like complex deals. Most importantly has the total trust of the president. Cause apparently they've been friends for like 20 or 30 years or whatever. 40 years. Yeah. 40 year friendship. So actual ironclad trust, their proven track record. Now, he yelled at bb, got him to do at least phase one. There are a lot of hostages who owe their lives to Steve Wicks. Whatever else happens, there are what, 30, 40 people and who knows how many Palestinians. You literally owe your life to Steve Wyckoff. Wyckoff got that guy, Mark Fogel. Release that Russian or the guy who was being held by Russia. He is today in Saudi Arabia with Secretary Rubio, meeting with the Russian foreign minister to specifically negotiate. Apparently he and Putin had a long discussion about Ukraine whenever Wyckoff was in Russia to secure the release of Mark Fogel. So if he does, if he gets phase two and. Or if he is successful in negotiating a Ukraine peace deal, then, yeah, he's absolutely the next Kissinger.

[Krystal]

Give it to him. We won't talk. We're not going to go into what.

[Sagar]

We mean, we don't need Ryan's Cambodian.

[Krystal]

We're not going to go into Kissinger. For now, let's just set that aside. Last piece. Our buddy, Mike Gallagher, former congressman. That's right. Lead sponsor of the TikTok bill in the House, now an executive over at Palantir, because this is Washington, D.C. that's how that goes. Became the latest person involved in the effort to ban TikTok, which is now back in the App Store. To say out loud how it was that it got over the hump. We'll play this clip in a second. What we don't mention here, Mark Warner, who was on the Senate side, the guy, he already said this, the IC guy. And he's on the stage too. And he says, I want to hear whether Mike tells the real story, the true story of how this happened. And Gallagher did tell the true story. So let's roll this.

[Sagar]

A bipartisan consensus. We had the executive branch, but the.

[Krystal]

Bill was still dead until October 7th. And people started to see a bunch.

[Sagar]

Of anti Semitic content on the platform.

[Krystal]

And our bill had legs again. And so producer Mack made a great point when he was watching this too, because you can sort of see Gallagher trying to clean it up where he's like, after October 7th, that's when it got its momentum. He's like, oh, that's not gonna sound exactly right. So then he shoehorns in. Cause there was a whole lot of anti Semitic content on TikTok. There was not a whole lot of anti Semitic content on TikTok. What there was, there were a lot of videos from Palestinians in Gaza of them getting killed, maimed, and their neighborhoods getting destroyed. And so it allowed the American public to connect directly in a parasocial way with real human beings on the ground and bypass the cable news New York Times version of what was happening. He retcons that to antisemitism. But Max, funny point. Not funny. What is. Wait a minute. Antisemitism on a social media platform is a reason to ban it. Have you ever logged on to x.

[Sagar]

X.Com?X.X I actually refuse to call it x.com?

[Krystal]

Have you ever logged on to Twitter lately? It is, you know, Kanye is like the moderate one on Twitter right now. It is an absolute cesspool of unadulterated, straight up anti Semitism.

[Sagar]

Well, I don't support banning anything for quote, unquote, anti Semitism.

[Krystal]

But if we it would not be TikTok alone. That would get rolled up in it. But just another Romney has said this before, Warner Blinken. So there's no mystery about what it was that gave the final push. Yes, the national security establishment wanted to ban it before that, but they couldn't.

[Sagar]

Get the listen, I was pro banned TikTok since 2018. Even I'll say that that's why it happened now. Sometimes you do good things for the wrong reasons, but it's okay. And by the way, Trump, I don't even know why you guys are compl. Complaining anymore. You won.

[Krystal]

I know.

[Sagar]

Yeah, it's just like we're the ones who sit here lost.

[Krystal]

Why are these. That was what was funny. They're on that stage celebrating as if they won.

[Sagar]

Right?

[Krystal]

It's like, how did we win this victory?

[Sagar]

It's like Trump just came in and was like, actually, no, we're not doing this to all.

[Krystal]

It'd be like if the refs came in at the very end and were like, okay, actually, the Chiefs won.

[Sagar]

That's right. It was at one point that much of a blowout in the TikTok victory. But I knew in my heart, I always knew Trump would. I gave him. When Trump started talking about TikTok on the campaign, I'm like, it's game over.

[Krystal]

The young people love me on TikTok.

[Sagar]

No, it's not just the whole young people thing, IRL. What it is is Jeff Yass is huge donor. He's a huge styk whispering in his ear in Mar a Lago for the last four years on top of Trump. Maybe this fits with the Elon thing. At the end of the day, he respects only one thing. Commodity of attention. That's it. There's nothing else that he respects more in the world. Hence he's like, okay, I'm pro TikTok. So there we go.

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[Sagar]

Let'S talk about the Democrats. This is objectively hilarious. Jon Stewart interviewing Jen Psaki with some shocking moments for Jen Psaki, not for everybody else. Let's take a listen.

[Lenovo Representative]

I've been shocked by how undemocratic the Democratic Party can be. Tell me, what do you mean by.

[Sagar]

I don't disagree with you necessarily, but what do you mean by that?

[Lenovo Representative]

By putting their foot on the scales to get, you know, make sure that Hillary Clinton comes out of the thing or makes sure that, you know, that they're. That they're listening to that anger about the way that even the ACA quite frankly, struck me as a very concerning.

[Sagar]

You mean because it didn't have a.

[Lenovo Representative]

Public option in it? Correct. That it didn't address the very thing that was causing the foundational upset. If I were to break this down narratively, what I think the Democrats have forgotten is government may not be perfect, but it's the only thing large enough to offset multinational corporate exploitation and corruption. And if we don't act like that's urgent and that affects people's lives, then, yeah, you're. So if the big policies that we make are billions more dollars to insurance companies that we think are fucking people over left and right for their, their healthcare. What. So isn't that part of why people lost faith? Yeah.

[Sagar]

So, yes, I, I think we're saying. Well, I'm trying to say something similar.

[Krystal]

Which is this boom, boom, which is.

[Sagar]

Democrats just lost everything. They control nothing. They control.

[Lenovo Representative]

I mean, they don't control the House, they don't control the Senate, they don't control the White House, and they don't.

[Krystal]

Control the Supreme Court. So now is the time to break some shit. Right.

[Sagar]

And break some China.

[Lenovo Representative]

They do control the email lists that continue to ask for money.

[Sagar]

All right, break it down for me, Ryan, what's your personal favorite? My favorite was. Oh, whenever he talks about oh. And she's like, but that's ancient history. We've moved on from that.

[Krystal]

My favorite was when she. And you can roll it back and see it. She literally rolls her eyes at the public option.

[Sagar]

Really?

[Krystal]

Yeah.

[Sagar]

Interesting.

[Krystal]

She's like, oh, God, this again. The freaking public option.

[Sagar]

How we move past this? Yeah. What are you still fighting these fights?

[Krystal]

Okay, so these damn people who wanted the government to come in and solve a major problem in their lives, and that's what gets. That's what gets the eye roll. The whole thing is just personally demoralizing in the sense that looking back at my career, which came in before the public option, but I spent a year and a half covering the fight over the public option and then cover the 2016 presidential campaign and knowing that if they would have listened to people like us, there's a good chance that you fend off this populist right and instead channel the energy into a populist left. They didn't. And so it's like, I don't have the energy to even do the I told you so's. And like, with Saki, like. And she and I are both like. But to me, it's like, well, you guys won, everybody lost. And it is what it is.

[Sagar]

And she's on MSNBC now and she's. She's got the power. She's got the wine moms in her pocket.

[Krystal]

Yeah.

[Sagar]

I don't mean the entire.

[Krystal]

I don't know how much in their pocket. I feel like the Democratic base is really pissed off.

[Sagar]

Yeah. Okay, so I've been talking about this with Crystal. What do you make of all this Democratic activism? Like, is it real? So people are lighting up the phone lines, right? Protests now, I don't take phone line as. So just because your base is pissed off about something does not indicate that the entire country is pissed off about it. Just means you're racist. So you would see this all the time with Republicans. Right. So what was it when Obergefell happened? You had a bunch of Christian Republicans light up Republican phone lines like, what are you guys gonna do about this? Doesn't mean that being anti gay marriage or whatever was popular, but it did mean it animated a certain percentage of the population. What do you make of the Democratic activism right now?

[Krystal]

I think the key thing to understand is that our understanding of Democratic activism is mediated through the mainstream media because those organs are more associated with the center left. New York Times, the msnbc, cnn, and msnbc and CNN have basically given up. They're not leading the resistance the way that they did in 2017. And so you could have similar levels of anger from Democrats across the country as you had in 2017, but you wouldn't hear about it because you're not gonna hear it from the Joe Rogan universe. They don't care. That's not the thing that they are covering. And if you don't hear it from CNN and msnbc, then you're not gonna hear it from anybody, basically. And so you have to actually be in it to see It. And so as a result of that, the broader public doesn't see the energy out there, and Democrats in Congress are just annoyed at it.

[Sagar]

I saw that.

[Krystal]

You saw Kristol's thing.

[Sagar]

Yeah, I did about that.

[Krystal]

And I think we might have Ezra Levine on Wednesday on Counterpoints. He's like public enemy number one.

[Sagar]

Who is he? Move on.

[Krystal]

He's the indivisible co founder. Because he's like, they've got millions of people who have ideas.

[Sagar]

So then let me ask you what I ask. What are they supposed to do?

[Krystal]

Well, the thing they want them to do is to fight around the March 14 budget and to say, and to check Elon. Like, what they're trying to do is we need to check Elon Musk with our power in the House because congressional Republicans need our votes to do a government funding bill.

[Sagar]

So they want to act like the Tea Party, basically.

[Krystal]

Yeah. And the only thing they want is some checks on doje. Like, that's the thing. They're like, let's fight for something and let's stop Elon Musk from destroying the federal government. Like, that's the thing they want.

[Sagar]

So I don't know. I just still. I still grapple with. It's because we were talking with Crystal and she was like, all you have is attention. And I'm like, what do. It's like, do people want to see Maxwell Frost, like do a sit in. In front of the usaid? I mean, you just think you look like an idiot. You know, personally, is that what the Democratic base wants? Like, they want them to fight on a. On the budget issue. Would that even be enough for them? Like, if I think back to the Tea Party and like how they were able to do it, it took taking super unpopular positions, holding the government hostage, and you needed Fox News, like a constant media drumbeat. Yeah. Which they don't have, but maybe they do. I mean, I was looking at Midas Touch, which I try to pay attention to them now. Cause I think they're like the heart of the Democratic resistance. And I mean, a lot of this stuff is like, I don't see politicians per se engaging with it. A lot of it is just like Trump loses it as he gets laughed at by the world. 716,000 views. A lot of it is like dunk on Trump content, which I guess obviously there's still an appetite for. No hate. Listen, it's a free market. I wish you guys the best, but I don't see how that translates into being a Democratic politician. I just don't understand how they are supposed to channel that energy. Because we talked about this last time, which is that Russiagate was fake at the end. Part of the reason why they're so demoralized is they staked everything on a genuine lie about what? About the. Like, it was an undemocratic, literal lie about Donald Trump. And so that's why they don't have any ground to fight on. And that's why I just, I don't know what the quote, unquote Democratic base wants their politicians to fight on when all they're fighting. It's like, for what? The integrity of usaid. It's like, okay, I mean, you know, be my guest. I just don't, I don't see how that hits at all.

[Krystal]

Maybe Education Department, like, faa, nih, like that kind of stuff. We'll see. We're less than a month away from this funding deadline, and who knows what stuff Elon Musk breaks between now and then, if anything.

[Sagar]

I mean, that's the risk, though. But at the end of the day, it's still reactive. You're waiting for your enemy to screw up as opposed to proposing anything else. We see some of this with Hakeem Jeffries, by the way. Let's take a listen.

[Krystal]

Donald Trump's favorability rating is actually higher than it ever was the first time around. Let me ask you a recent poll by Marquette looked at several of the things that he has done or says that he is going to do. And 63% favor federal government's recognition of only two sexes. 60% favor deporting immigrants who entered the United States illegally. 60% favor expanding oil and gas production. 59% favor declaring an emergency at the southern border. Is there anything you are seeing that Trump is doing that you are in favor of, that you think is the right thing?

[Lenovo Representative]

Let me say, as it relates to all of those issues, we're just at the beginning. And the core promise that Donald Trump made is that he's going to lower costs for everyday Americans. In fact, we were told that grocery prices would go down on day one on January 20th. Costs aren't lower. In fact, costs are increasing. The price of eggs is skyrocketing out of control. Inflation is on the way up. That was the core promise that's been broken with respect to immigration. Listen, we have to secure the border. We have a broken immigration system. And we need to fix it in a comprehensive and bipartisan way at the same period of time as Democrats. We're going to protect dreamers, protect farmworkers, and protect Families who help our communities across the country thrive.

[Sagar]

I don't even know where to start with this guy. He's got negative charisma, no political response. That is where I do feel somewhat sympathy for the liberals out there, where I'm like, man, but I will tell you, you're the people who set up the system that promoted the Hakeem Jeffries of the world and the complete monarchy of Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer over the Democratic Party, where they can handpick whoever they want. There's not even a semblance of popularity whenever it comes to who's controlling the response for this party, who just suffered a massive loss.

[Krystal]

So this was one of the more demoralizing moments, too, when the left knocked Joe Crowley out, who was supposed to be the next speaker. Right. And he was caucus chair at the time. And so then Barbara Lee runs for caucus chair against Hakeem Jeffries, who is Crowley's protege, and Jeffries wins. So it's like, I just don't have the energy.

[Sagar]

You're just, what are the activists? They'd be like, I'm just so tired of being tired.

[Krystal]

I was tired of being tired. I was tired. But what's interesting is that. And what's interesting about that clip in particular, Jeffries, whatever you think about his politics, is actually one of the more talented communicators that they've ever had in a leadership role. And that was not an energetic performance at all. And I think that there's a substance and a structural problem beneath it. In 2017, 2018, when Democrats are feeling their oats, Hakeem Jeffries could get on any cable program or get on the House floor and give a speech that, to Democrats, was inspiring because they had a sense of what their moral core was. And Trump, and it was immigration, and he was treating like Trump was evil and awful, and they were going to stand up to him, and they don't have that anymore. At the end, he finishes by what the Democratic compromise is on immigration, rather than what it used to be. The yard sign that said all are welcome. All are welcome has a moral urgency to it. And that allowed people like Jeffries to speak with more confidence. And so to have somebody who's as good a communicator as him sound so bad. And so to lack so much confidence suggests that the Democrats really just don't have their footing. I agree.

[Sagar]

They really.

[Krystal]

And he's got a clean hit with the like, hey, didn't you say you were gonna do something about inflation? Yes, like that's their cleanest hit, right?

[Sagar]

But they but they're so dizzied by Elon and all this other stuff, they just don't know what to do. Well, I'm sure we'll keep talking about it. It is one of the central stories. It's kind of hilarious, honestly, to see them all fall apart.

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[Sagar]

What do you have for us on Luigi?

[Krystal]

All right, so our man Luigi Mangione.

[Sagar]

He's back. Your man, not mine. Although. Although I have to be honest, Luigi and I have A lot in common. We both love Japan.

[Krystal]

That's right.

[Sagar]

We have a lot of theory.

[Krystal]

We both read a lot of the same theory.

[Sagar]

We read a lot of the same books. We share a lot of the same theories about Japan. I guess we both do hate. We both hate corporate healthcare. So, you know, but that's something that we all. A lot of us. Hammond, he has become a leftist icon. Although every single. I wouldn't say he's on the right. He's like.

[Krystal]

He's this esoteric.

[Sagar]

Yeah, it's a stupid thing. I think I described him as a right wing anarcho capitalist. That's the. That's probably the best description. Although anybody who just murders someone in cold blood is probably not all the way together, but nonetheless has become a popular figure.

[Krystal]

And so he speaks. Yes, Luigi speaks. His lawyers have put out a statement. We put this up on the screen. He says, I am overwhelmed by and grateful for everyone who has written me to share their stories and express their support powerfully. This support has transcended political, racial and even class divisions as mail has flooded metropolitan detention center from across the country and around the globe. While it is impossible for me to reply to most letters, please note that I read every one that I receive. Thank you again to everyone who took the time to write. I look forward to hearing more in the future. The lawyers also posted an FAQ on luigimangioninfo.com which tells you everything anybody might want to know about Luigi. So where is he? Like for instance, may I send him items like books? Yes.

[Sagar]

Put E2 up there on the screen. Because the funny part about this is FAQ is it represents all of the mail that they're getting. Can I send mail to Luigi? Can you respond? Are there any restrictions on his mail? May I send him books? Can I send him photos? Did you see that? Can I send him photos? So ladies or men? Or men?

[Krystal]

So he has asked people to limit the number of photos they send to five. Yes. No.

[Sagar]

Listen to this. Due to the volume of photos, they could take longer than usual to be screened and shared.

[Krystal]

So. And also quote, please note that every photo that is received is screened and reviewed by law enforcement. Just an FYI, for those of you who are sending pics, can you imagine this guy's inbox?

[Sagar]

He said jail. How can I sign up for official court information? What else can I send Luigi as part of this other than books, mail, news, article or photos? No other items. The bureau prisons does not allow packages from outside of the facility. Everything must be purchased through his commissary account.

[Krystal]

And then it says, how can I contribute to Luigi? And it links to his Give Send Go, which has a goal of a million dollars raised. And so far has raised, According to this, $467,001 $754 from. It looks like more than 15,000 people. More than a thousand people have done the pray. Like, praying for Luigi.

[Sagar]

Okay.

[Krystal]

Which is. Okay, that's where I'm gonna go with weird, because it's like, if you're praying, I assume you're Christian or Muslim, Jewish. Like you've got some idea about the sanctity of life. And he did kill somebody, right? Allegedly.

[Sagar]

Yeah, allegedly.

[Krystal]

That's right.

[Sagar]

He hasn't been proven guilty. You know, today there's a documentary. Actually, it's apt that we're doing this. A documentary premieres about him today from hbo, which is one hour. One. But yeah, apparently, like, in the hours after the killing, there were four separate doc deals that were signed, like Netflix, hbo. I mean, look, I'm gonna watch it. Let's be honest. I'm gonna watch. I'm gonna watch White Lotus, and then I'm gonna watch the Luigi thing. It just has to be done. It's one of those where I'll probably watch everything about it. It's like the Fyre Festival, you know? Did we need two documentaries? Apparently, yes.

[Krystal]

I think we did.

[Sagar]

We did, Yep. So, I mean, I just think it's fascinating because it hasn't been in the news for, what, two months, almost three months now since all of this. But it's pretty clear there's still a lot of public interest in the case. And I don't know. I mean, I remember Ken and Crystal and everybody else talking about it and be like, you can just see the explosion of, if not outright support or at the very least, disgust for the healthcare guy. But if you look at the Democratic response, none of it seems to incorporate any of that popular energy. Like, we just talked. Play that clip of Hakeem Jeffries, and they couldn't be more out of step with whatever the hell this is. I mean, there's a lot of people out there, apparently sending thirst traps of Luigi Mandy, printing them out and sending them to the Bureau of Prisons, which, you know, you need help, but I don't know. I mean, serial killers also get that stuff apparently all the time. So what do I know? There's a weird segment of the public out there.

[Krystal]

Luigi's defense probably still rests on the potential of jury nullification.

[Sagar]

You think so? Well, okay, so explain this one to Me too. Doesn't he have two separate charges? There's a state charge.

[Krystal]

Well, there are state and federal. Yeah.

[Sagar]

So what's the difference? What's the federal charge that's against him? Because I was reading on his website, I didn't quite understand it.

[Krystal]

It's depriving somebody of their. They're basically their civil rights by killing them.

[Sagar]

Okay.

[Krystal]

Is the way they can do that.

[Sagar]

I don't think he would do that. Is it because he crossed interstate lines? Is it because he went from Pennsylvania to. Or, sorry, from New York to Pennsylvania?

[Krystal]

I guess that would qualify. The feds will often do this if they think that the state won't handle it properly. Yeah, right.

[Sagar]

So there's People vs. Mangione, New York State. There's Commonwealth of PA vs. Mangione, and then there's USA vs. Mangeon. At the federal level. I was just trying to understand. I was like, well, what did he do in Pennsylvania? And sometimes possession of a false identification, probably something like that.

[Krystal]

Sometimes this will happen to cops where they. They will be acquitted or not charged. More often, I think not charged because there's some double jeopardy implications if you're acquitted, not charged, but at the state level. And then the feds will come in and do a civil rights case against the cop. So I don't know. We'll see.

[Sagar]

All right, well. Oh, yeah. So it is here. Traveled in interstate commerce with the intent to kill, injure, harass, intimidate, and place under surveillance with the intent to kill. That's the federal. It's stalking is the charge that has been leveled against him. And then murder through use of a firearm on top of firearms offenses that I guess stack on top of.

[Krystal]

Right. Because he did the interstate thing.

[Sagar]

Because of the interstate. All right, well, lesson in our justice system. I'm sure it'll still. I still think it'll be the trial of the century. We all know it will. In terms of the public interest downtown in New York City. There's gonna be a lot going on, man.

[Krystal]

Stay tuned.

[Sagar]

All right.

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[Sagar]

Ryan, you've got a good segment for us. Let's get to it.

[Krystal]

All right, Woke or Bass?

[Sagar]

All right, I'm ready. Hit me.

[Krystal]

Okay. So we can throw up EE1 here. So there was this article that came out in Breitbart recently. Yes. Biden antitrust holdover Doha Meki continued Woke agenda instead of taking on big tech with a photo of Doha Meki there.

[Sagar]

Okay.

[Krystal]

And this is just such a fascinating, I think, entree into our current politics that I wanted to unpack this thoroughly and play a game with Sager called.

[Sagar]

Woke or Based as a reminder to the audience, I have not seen any of this.

[Krystal]

She's not seen this. Yeah.

[Sagar]

I have no idea what's coming.

[Krystal]

And so in this Breitbart article, which and so we both have done enough Washington reporting that we know that sometimes articles are the powerful work of journalistic.

[Sagar]

Endeavors and some of it's fed to it.

[Krystal]

Other times you get an oppo document that's just fed to you. And as you read this one, we don't know, you can never say for 100% certain where it came from. But you're like, did this Breitbart guy really come up with all of these different examples or were these packaged? So this looks looks like oppo, which means corporate oppo at this Point, not partisan apo. And so the key part here of this article put up E2 here that Breitbart writes, Many populist Republicans, including J.D. vance and Josh Hawley, also supported Biden's antitrust chief, Jonathan Cantor for continuing the work of the first Trump administration with lawsuits against Apple and Google. Slater, who's an incoming Trump anti chief enforcer, will almost certainly continue these lawsuits against Big Tech. However, after Cantor resigned on December 18, his woke deputy, Doha Meki took over as acting antitrust chief and pushed through many radical actions in the last weeks of Biden's lame duck presidency. So look at. So the two step here is interesting. What they're trying to say is like, okay, we acknowledge that Jonathan Kantor, Lena Khan, that entire anti monopoly universe in the Democratic ecosystem is cool because it was doing the same stuff that Trump was doing. So they realized they can't really attack that because it has populist bona fides that are impregnable. But they're saying this woke lady came in and did a bunch of mean things to corporate America because she's woke. And so we're gonna go through their bill of indictment against Doha Meki for being woke and let's actually click the links that they provide to decide whether or not the action they're describing is woke or is it based.

[Sagar]

Okay, what do we got?

[Krystal]

So in the final weeks of the Biden administration, Meki issued rules addressing quote, HR policies, which typically have nothing to do with antitrust policy. So the guidelines provide examples and cite cases to explain how the agencies analyze business practices that may violate antitrust laws. The guidelines also explain certain types of agreements between employers, such as wage fixing or no poach agreements, may expose companies and executives to criminal liability under the antitrust laws. So what did Mecky do? She told companies around the country that if you enter into no poach agreement, wage fixing, those types of non competes, that not only could you be civilly liable, you could also even be criminally liable. Okay, is that woke or is that based?

[Sagar]

I would say based. I would personally say based. Telling a company what to do and not to exploit people is supposed to be based, but apparently it's woke here.

[Krystal]

Oh, and I forgot we're dedicating this segment to none other than Hillary Clinton. For her, the most woke comment ever made on behalf of corporate America. Yes. Which defines basically an entire era. So roll E4 here to remind people.

[Sagar]

If we broke up the big bangs tomorrow, and I will, if they deserve it, if they pose any systemic risk.

[Greenlight Representative]

I will Would that end racism?

[Sagar]

Would that end sexism?

[Krystal]

No. Would that end discrimination against the LGBT community? That's the.

[Sagar]

One of Krystal's favorites.

[Krystal]

Yeah. That's the essence of corporate America. Using woke language to defend itself, saying, don't break up the big banks. Why? Because that won't end racism. It won't solve gay rights, it won't do all these other things. Okay, okay, so we got one for based here. Okay. Next, Breitbart says, quote, she issued a last minute lawsuit against six major landlords in line with the Biden administration's blaming AI and landlords rather than his own inflationary policies for high rent. So you can put up. I believe this is E6.

[Sagar]

Okay.

[Krystal]

Which I don't even think I need to explain to you or to the audience. This one. So this was.

[Sagar]

Yeah, we covered this one.

[Krystal]

Yeah, we covered this. This is a mechi policy that she rolled out attacking landlords over juicing rent. Is it woke or based?

[Sagar]

I gotta go with based. I gotta go with based personally. But I mean, let's make this clear. I don't speak for, quote, maga, populist writer, any of these people. And even woke and. Or based, it basically gets defined in terms of liberalism and who the person is. So, for example, if you fire like you're talking about, this is what. Basically, I think the point you're trying to make, if you have a lady who's a lib and you own that lib, that's based. Right. In terms of the culture war. The problem is, is that when you actually look at some of these policies and things like that, some of these things just these definitions fall apart. And that is part of the problem with a lot of the attack vector. This kind of gets to the whole idea of doge versus MAGA and what it even means. But part of the thing I always try to point out is like, guys, MAGA is whatever Trump wants it to be. And that's where there are a lot of people who are like, this doesn't fit with what Trump ra on. I'm like, well, you know, the thing is, Trump, at the end of the day, yeah, he said a lot of stuff, but what did he really say? I alone can fix it. And I increasingly think that's really what Trump was all about. And to the extent that he's good or he's bad or he's MAGA or whatever, it's whatever it aligns in terms of his transactional reality and whatever happens to be him feeling that day. But if he had faith in some sort of broader agenda. I mean, honestly, I don't know what to put. You didn't hear it here, I can tell you that.

[Krystal]

Luckily, I didn't have any faith.

[Sagar]

Yeah.

[Krystal]

All right, so we got two more. So this next one is she sued KKR over paperwork violations. Okay. That's how Breitbart describes it. So basically, kkr, massive private equity firm that does mergers and acquisitions. There are federal laws that require that if you're doing a major merger that you submit a filing with the Department of Justice. Here's what we're doing so that you can review this. KKR came up with a clever workaround. They're like, what if we don't do that and we just do the merger? Then it can't be reviewed. In this document, they quote from several executives who are saying, less is more. Let's make sure we are not submitting these books. So is this wokeness run amok or based?

[Sagar]

That one is. I wouldn't call that necessarily based, but this is more of a personal thing, is that I hate private equity firms like kkr, so I'm personally supported by that.

[Krystal]

So go rip them. Now, this is part. The last one is where it gets interesting. And I think we can. And we can actually start talking about some philosophy here. So they also whack her for Meki. So quote, this is Breitbart. Meki repeatedly invoked W.E.B. du Bois, a black Marxist thinker, to further her argument that antitrust laws must be used against what she considers racism. This one was to me the most egregious because it is actually backwards. It is a reverse incorrect reading of the speech that they reference. So you can put up E8 and for the fun of it, let me do this whole three paragraph section of it. So this is from the speech that they said is woke. So the economic opportunities and liberties protected by the Sherman Act. This is what she said in her speech. In particular, protections against monopolies were important to the founders too. Jefferson listed a restriction against monopolies among the rights that deserve to be enumerated in the Bill of Rights. After all, England's grant of monopolies for different products, including tea, may well have set the American Revolution in motion. The foundations on which the Sherman act rests are not limited solely to concern about contractual restraints, property rights and industrial relations. They also contemplate individual liberty and concern about distribution of power. Why is this concern for economic opportunity and liberty so important? I come back to my thesis because efforts to secure social and political rights are at risk if they are not backstopped by economic opportunity and because antitrust plays an important role in our economic liberty and democracy of opportunity tradition. In his 1935 book, Black Reconstruction in America, Du Bois famously argued that a key reason why the Confederacy collapsed and the institution of slavery with it was because when Union soldiers arrived in the south, black Americans, as Du Bois put it, left the plantations and led a general strike. They exercised the most basic economic right that comes with freedom, the freedom to make decisions about one's labor. The exercise of this economic liberty devastated the southern economy and as he put it, furnished 200,000 federal soldiers. This is no doubt resonant for all of us in the room who have helped advance labor competition jurisprudence and protected the ability of organized workers to act collectively. So you respond to that while I find her.

[Sagar]

Whether that's woke or it's based? Yeah, well, you know, like I said, it could be based, could be woke, I guess I don't really know. You know, unfortunately I have not.

[Krystal]

And here's the quote where she finishes. She says on this telling, we should think harder about calls to subordinate our antitrust and anti monopoly laws purportedly in service of some other social and political values. So she's saying, do not subordinate antitrust to a push for civil rights or for a woke agenda. She's specifically explicitly saying, do not do that. She's saying that economic rights are fundamental. If you don't have economic liberty, if you don't have economic resources in your community, you don't have the ability to fight for political and civil rights. It is the reverse of wokeism to say, no, it is essential. American liberty is essential. So to me, to have that speech be evidence of her wokeness was like, what's going on here, Ryan?

[Sagar]

You probably taught 10 times harder about this article than the person who wrote in terms of.

[Krystal]

Well, yeah, because he just. He took stuff that was handed to him, as my guess, and just slapped and just slapped it.

[Sagar]

Well, if anything, look, this is a very good view into exactly how. Look, everything is about framing, right? So as you. What did they say? Like some black Marxist is the way that they phrased it? I unfortunately don't know enough about. I need to go find a good book about.

[Krystal]

You would like Du Bois, He's.

[Sagar]

No, no, no. I've read about him, but I have never read a book specifically about him. And it gets to the heart of where all the tension is with MAGA and you know, with banonism, with a coherent ideology around this. But I think really what it comes down to is the current vector is all about control within the right. And to the extent that anything is considered, like horseshoe or whatever, the right is the one that has to be in control. And I'm speaking in terms of the way that they see this movement. So for them, anybody who was willing to work with the Biden apparatchiks or any of these people, these are bad. Right? These are enemies. And if we're gonna have anybody who even agrees with that, it has to be somebody who already aligns with us on the cultural issues. So I do think it's unfortunate because, yeah, you have people like Chopra and others who really did try to, you know, transcend, I guess, partisan boundaries. But what can we say? The number one lesson here is that good faith does not get rewarded in Washington.

[Krystal]

No, it doesn't.

[Sagar]

That's really the way my number one lesson from any of those people, and I hate to say it because it almost makes me sound like Blue maga, is, oh, you're an idiot. Forever trying to work with those people. They're like, at the end of the day, it's about us. We're a team, and we fight within the team. I don't think it should work that way. But that's where the political incentives are right now.

[Krystal]

And also notice, as the last point, notice the interesting trap it sets up, because anybody who's watching this by the end is like, wait a minute. So all of the things that they claimed made her woke actually are not woke at all. What they're left with is, she's black.

[Sagar]

Yeah.

[Krystal]

And it's like, wait a minute. The one quote that the right loves from Martin Luther King is like, let's judge people by the content of their character, not the color of their skin. Did not happen with Dohaha here. But the second that I say that, they're like, aha, that's woke. Now you're woke. See, and we were right. We were right the whole time. So it's this, like, get out of doing, like, pretty blatant racism free card. Because as soon as you criticize that, then you're being.

[Sagar]

Well, now you see race everywhere. Ryan, you're the one who pointed it out, not them.

[Krystal]

That's right. Yeah. Look. See? Busted.

[Sagar]

I don't even know if that's that. I really don't know if it's that deep. I really just think it was some stupid corporate oppo piece.

[Krystal]

I think it was KKR.

[Sagar]

Yeah. Right.

[Krystal]

Yeah.

[Sagar]

You're absolutely right.

[Lenovo Representative]

Yeah.

[Krystal]

And the KKR's attorneys are the same that have Eric Adams now and we can get into that at some other time.

[Sagar]

Okay, that's gonna be. I actually am looking forward to that. All right, guys. I hope you guys enjoyed the bro show. I certainly did. Chris will be back tomorrow. We'll see you all then.

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