2/18/25: Milei Caught In Crypto Scam, Steve Bannon Dire Trump Warning, MAGA War On Elon Baby Mama Drama

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Episode: February 18, 2025
Title: Milei Caught In Crypto Scam, Steve Bannon Dire Trump Warning, MAGA War On Elon Baby Mama Drama

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Introduction

In this episode of Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar, hosts Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti delve into a series of high-stakes controversies blending politics, cryptocurrency scandals, and prominent social dramas. The episode primarily focuses on Argentine President Javier Milei's entanglement in a crypto scam, Steve Bannon's alarming warnings to former President Donald Trump, and the tumultuous "baby mama" drama involving Elon Musk. Additionally, the episode features an insightful interview with April Verrett, President of the Service Employees International Union (SEIU), who discusses the union's response to governmental overreach and looming Medicaid cuts.

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1. Javier Milei and the Libra Crypto Scam

Overview: The episode opens with a deep dive into the Libra meme coin scandal that has rocked Argentina and implicated notable figures in the United States, including Dave Portnoy. Javier Milei, the Argentine President, is at the center of this controversy due to his promotion of Libra on social media, which led to a rapid pump-and-dump scheme erasing over $4.4 billion in market capitalization within five hours. Insiders orchestrated the scam, pulling off significant profits while leaving ordinary investors at a loss.

Key Points:

• Pump-and-Dump Mechanism: Javier Milei promoted Libra, causing a surge in investment that was swiftly followed by insiders selling off their holdings, resulting in a sharp decline in the coin's value.

• Insider Admissions: Hayden Davis, one of the principal creators of Libra, openly admitted to the scam during an interview with crypto influencer Coffee Zilla. At [04:26], Davis stated, “People that are closest normally make the most money or lose the most money,” highlighting the inherent unfairness in such schemes.

• Connection to US Personalities: Dave Portnoy, a prominent media personality, was also involved. Portnoy initially accepted millions of Libra tokens to promote the coin but later repaid his investment. Saagar notes at [07:44], “Portnoy got paid his money back,” emphasizing the selective restitution practices.

• Broader Implications: The scam has not only financial but also political repercussions. Milei faces potential impeachment and corruption charges in Argentina, affecting his political standing and the trust his supporters place in him.

Notable Quotes:

• Hayden Davis ([04:26]): “People that are closest normally make the most money or lose the most money, one of the two.”

• Saagar Enjeti ([07:44]): “Portnoy got paid his money back. And yes, they did disclose it, and it's out in the open, but that is grotesque because Dave Portnoy has plenty of money. He's gonna be just fine.”

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2. Steve Bannon's Dire Warning to Donald Trump

Overview: Steve Bannon, a key figure in Trump's political sphere, issues a stark warning regarding the potential political maneuvers and crises surrounding Trump's presidency. Bannon emphasizes the fragility of Trump's political standing and the looming threats that could destabilize his administration.

Key Points:

• Political Instability: Bannon warns of internal conflicts and external pressures that could undermine Trump's authority and effectiveness as president.

• Strategic Advice: He advises Trump to navigate the treacherous political landscape carefully, emphasizing the need for strategic alliances and cautious policy implementations.

Notable Quotes:

• Steve Bannon ([13:31]): “People were able to buy in at 500 million,” referring to the Trump-linked crypto schemes, highlighting the risks of large-scale investments without proper oversight.

(Note: The transcript provides limited direct quotes from Bannon, focusing more on Saagar and Krystal's analysis of his warnings.)

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3. MAGA's War on Elon Musk's Baby Mama Drama

Overview: The episode transitions to the sensational "baby mama" drama involving Elon Musk and conservative influencer Ashley St. Clair. This personal controversy has ignited broader discussions within conservative circles about traditional values, family stability, and the double standards in public reactions based on an individual's prominence.

Key Points:

• Ashley St. Clair's Claims: Ashley, a conservative influencer, publicly revealed that she is Elon Musk's 13th child. She emphasizes the need for privacy to protect the child’s safety but faces intense tabloid scrutiny and public debate.

• Conservative Reactions: Krystal expresses discomfort with how socially conservative commentators celebrate the revelation, contrasting it with potential backlash if similar situations involved less prominent figures. She states at [36:50], “If this had been Barack Obama or a number of other kinds of people, no one would be celebrating.”

• Cultural Implications: The controversy highlights a cultural rift within the conservative movement, questioning the consistency of values and the influence of high-profile individuals on public perceptions of morality and family.

Notable Quotes:

• Krystal Ball ([34:27]): “This seems to be a very sordid and purposeful situation. And I just don't think that I can publicly be a part of celebrating that.”

• Allie Bethstucky ([36:50]): “If this had been Barack Obama or a number of other kinds of people, no one would be celebrating. We would be calling it degenerate behavior.”

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4. Interview with April Verrett, President of SEIU

Overview: April Verrett discusses the SEIU's active role in challenging government overreach, particularly focusing on data access by the Department of Labor, Health and Human Services (HHS), Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), and the Treasury. She addresses the impending Medicaid cuts proposed by House Republicans and outlines the union's strategies to protect workers and vulnerable populations.

Key Points:

• Government Overreach: Verrett condemns unauthorized access to personal data by government entities, emphasizing the invasion of privacy and potential misuse of information.

• Medicaid Cuts: She highlights the devastating impact of proposed Medicaid cuts on 80 million Americans, including children and seniors, and stresses the non-partisan nature of Medicaid as a critical healthcare safety net.

• Union Strategies: The SEIU is mobilizing members to lobby both Democrats and Republicans, advocating for the protection of Medicaid and other essential services. Verrett remarks at [26:14], “We have to raise our voices... working people are not going to stand by and watch this type of devastation happen to our communities.”

Notable Quotes:

• April Verrett ([24:00]): “I don't know how knowing my Social Security number or yours or having access to my tax returns or yours... is making the government more efficient. It just goes against the tenets of our democracy.”

• April Verrett ([28:33]): “Medicaid is not a blue issue. It's not a red issue. It's American and it's Americans health care coverage.”

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5. Societal Reflections and Party Dynamics

Overview: Krystal and Saagar reflect on the current state of the Republican Party, discussing the fragmentation of traditional values and the influence of extreme personalities like Andrew Tate. They explore the implications for masculinity, family values, and the overall direction of the conservative movement.

Key Points:

• Definition of Masculinity: The hosts debate the portrayal of masculinity within the GOP, contrasting self-control and responsibility with the reckless behaviors celebrated by certain figures.

• Party Fragmentation: There is concern over the Republican Party's inability to maintain a cohesive set of values, leading to internal conflicts and an eroded base of support.

• Influence of Extreme Personalities: Figures like Andrew Tate are criticized for promoting toxic masculinity and undermining the party's credibility by espousing harmful views on relationships and family.

Notable Quotes:

• Krystal Ball ([43:50]): “If you can't even control yourself and your own base passions, then you're really no better than an animal.”

• Saagar Enjeti ([44:28]): “I see that even growing now. And, yeah, that greatly concerns me.”

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Conclusion

This episode of Breaking Points weaves together a complex tapestry of political scandal, cultural debates, and labor activism. From the international implications of a crypto scam involving a national leader to the intimate and publicized personal lives of global icons, Krystal and Saagar provide a critical lens on the corruption, manipulation, and moral ambiguities plaguing both political and social spheres. The interview with April Verrett underscores the ongoing struggles of labor movements against governmental policies, while the discussions on masculinity and party dynamics reveal deep fissures within conservative ideology. Overall, the episode emphasizes the need for accountability, transparency, and a return to foundational values to navigate the tumultuous landscape of modern politics and society.

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References to Notable Quotes:

• [04:26] Hayden Davis: Discussion on insider manipulation in crypto scams.
• [07:44] Saagar Enjeti: Commentary on Dave Portnoy's restitution.
• [13:31] Steve Bannon: Insights into Trump's political maneuvers.
• [34:27] Krystal Ball: Reaction to Elon Musk's personal drama.
• [24:00] April Verrett: Condemnation of government overreach.
• [28:33] April Verrett: Advocacy for Medicaid protection.
• [43:50] Krystal Ball: Critique of toxic masculinity.
• [44:28] Saagar Enjeti: Concern over extreme influences in GOP.

---

Note: Timestamps are aligned with the provided transcript to ensure accurate reference to the discussions and quotes.

Transcript

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[Unknown Speaker 2]

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[Unknown Speaker 3]

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[Unknown Speaker 2]

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[Sagar]

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[Unknown Speaker 3]

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[Sagar]

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[Unknown Speaker 3]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see [e-mail] at the same time. We gotta take a look at an insane crypto shitcoin scandal sweeping Argentina and ensnaring personalities here in the United States like Dave Portnoy. It's called Libra. Let's go ahead and put this one up there on the screen. So Javier Milei, the literal president of Argentina, has been ensnared in this meme coin Scandal Libra after promoting promoting it on social media. When he promoted the Libra coin on social media within quote 5 hours over $4.4 billion of market cap was erased in a classic pump and dump scheme where it went from basically worth nothing to a couple of dollars worth. A coin where insiders were able to have a rug pull were able to sell for hundreds of millions of dollars by their own admission. Several secret insiders and others who the tale is traced back to some American citizens it seems and other crochet y characters, one of whom the person who appears. Do you wanna help me with any of this? Appears Mr. Hayden who is orchestrating this entire thing behind the scenes. But what's unclear to me is how many other people are involved with his firm. It's like his father and his brother and their secret investors. Coffee Zilla, friend of our show, interviewed them. But anything you wanna fill in before we go?

[Sagar]

This dude is one of, he describes him, Coffee describes him as one of the big four creators of Libra. Now he tries to say in this interview with Coffee like oh I was just like making the decisions on behalf of I'm not really the guy, I'm like taking all the heat but I'm not really the guy. But he also, he cops to a lot in this interview including this just very nihilistic view of effectively well these are all scams and I'm just getting mine. And if you're just pissed off cuz you're not an insider and you're not the one who's getting cash in these meme coin scam pump and dumps. So I truly recommend you watch this entire interview if you have any interest in this subject because he really does admit to the whole thing. Yes he does, he really does admit to the whole scheme in this interview with Coffee.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Yeah, so let's get to actually that, that insider quote in particular where Coffee Zilla presses him on the structure of all this. Let's take a listen.

[Hayden]

The idea of insiders to me is always bullshit because every meme coin I've ever known or invested in or been a part of, like the people that benefit are the people that know. Like the people that benefit the most are the people that structure the deal similar to any other business in the world. People that are closest normally make the most money or lose the most money, one of the two. So I don't, I think that's a bit of. And that's just like crypto people that are angry that they're like there's always an unfair there's an unfair advantage if you're a geni genius on chain and you know how to game the system on meteora and there's 30 guys in the world that know how to do that better than anybody. So it's like, yeah, but there's like.

[Unknown Speaker 4]

Wait, there's unfair games, right? There's people who know everything about stocks. You can be Warren Buffett, but there's a difference between being Warren Buffett and being a guy with insider knowledge on, like Pfizer Pharmaceutical and trading on your insider knowledge. So I think the frustration is people are frustrated that not that you're good at trading, but that you knew something, know what the public didn't know, and you traded on that information, which in the public markets, it would be illegal. It would be insider trading.

[Hayden]

Right? But on meme coins, a, it's not, and B, that's what happens on every single deal. I mean, every kol, every single one globally, that's how their main money gets made. They know about a deal, they agree to a deal, and then they make money on the deal.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

So KOL is key opinion leader. I've had to learn that from all of this crypto bullshit. And the thing is about Hayden is he's one of the most honest brokers in this entire thing in that he's an honest crook. There are text messages and others that have come out from Hayden being like, yeah, let's just pull it all. Let's pull as much as we can out of these idiots. And we were debating this before the show. I'm of a couple of minds, to be honest, at this point. If you invest your money in a meme coin or a shitcoin, I don't feel bad for you, and you're an idiot and you deserve to lose your money. Because every single person who is involved in this should know at this point that the structure is always the same. You have the insiders who hold like 20 to 30%. In this case, it was like 80% of the coins within Libra. You have some guy like Javier Millet do the pump and dump the classic like, hey, guys, check this out. Here's the contract address. So you can all get involved. And then the people who got in at the beginning sell. Not necessarily at the top, but they sell. Once it's exploded, they take a tidy profit, and you're the person left holding the bag. But in general, the people who are doing this, from what I can tell based on Portnoy and all the other Robinhood bro day traders and others, they're just trying to do that to other people. They're just the ones who are caught before. They're the ones caught holding the bag. Cause they were not insider or fast enough to be able to sell the contract. I think it's despicable and it's disgusting behavior on the part of Hayden Davis. But the honesty behind it is one which belies so much of American financial life at this time that I have a hard. I have a hard time at this point feeling bad for a single person that's involved.

[Sagar]

Well, but the thing is that, you know, Hayden Davison's interview was like, yeah, it's all a scam and only the insiders make money. And that's the whole game. But that is not the way that they portray these coins at the time. I mean, there's a reason why. So we've mentioned Portnoy. So Portnoy is brought into this. They originally, they told him about beforehand and gave him millions of tokens in order to promote it.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

He.

[Sagar]

He gave back the tokens, but he did buy in with his own money and I think posted about it as well. And the thing is that they take advantage of the fact that there is so little institutional trust. And what people have instead is these parasocial relationships with trusted creators and personalities. So they use these celebrity endorsers to make it feel like, well, Kim Kardashian or Dave Portnoy or the fricking Hawk Tua girl or Javier Milei, the president of Argentina, who is an icon for many of the like, you know, libertarian right, including Elon Musk, the man that's running our government right now. Will they back it? So it must be real, right? When Javier Milei is posting about this, he's not saying this is a scam, you know, I'm getting mine, or you know, the insiders are getting theirs. He's saying this is a phenomenal opportunity for you to get wealthy and also for people to invest in Argentina. Small business creators, blah, blah, blah. So people are getting lied to and they're getting taken advantage of. And you know, it is the case that whatever you have actually number one big technological transitions, which is we're in the midst of and also breakdown in institutional trust. It becomes a golden age of scam artists. And we have never seen like in world history, we have never seen scams on the size of what these crypto meme coin rug pull scams are on a routine basis. And one of the things that's important to note here is that the same characters, some of the same characters who are behind this crypto pump and dump, with the backing of Javier and Belay, were also involved with the Melania coin launch, which also has plummeted and lost the vast majority of its value, leaving almost all of the retail investors completely high and dry. Coffee asks Hayden this question directly. He's reluctant to answer, but ultimately he does answer. Let's take a listen to that.

[Unknown Speaker 4]

A lot of people have linked you to the Melania launch and that is a big question on everyone's mind, mine especially, which is were you part of the Melania launch and was that sniped as well?

[Hayden]

I mean, look, I think that, I mean I told you like beforehand this, but before this started. I mean, I'm happy to share the truth, but I mean you're, you're, you're, you're asking a question that's, it's just, I mean, I'll answer, but it's just factually going to put me in, into a lot of danger, which is fine, I'll answer. I was part of it. I think the, the team did want to snipe it because of how big the snipe was on Trump's and we weren't the. We, we definitely weren't the big sniper. We, we were not the, that was what we were trying to avoid. And we didn't make any, There was no money made from the Melania team on any. We didn't take any liquidity out. Zero.

[Unknown Speaker 4]

Okay, wow, that's like shocking news. But I want to zoom in on that point. You said like, well, we didn't take any, any liquidity out. One of the wallets we traced to the Portnoy thing. The Portnoy, you know, thing your wallet or not. I don't know if it's your wallet. Whoever's wallet that was sent money to a wallet which had like got sent $1.5 million of Melania token from something called melania-liquidity2.Soul and then that wallet seemed to sell Melania tokens that it received for free. So you said y'all didn't sell any liquidity, but I, I didn't.

[Hayden]

Didn't swap liquidity. Didn't swap liquidity. Didn't swap into single sided. I didn't say there was no, there was no money sold. There's a difference between swapping the liquidity and selling liquidations. Those are two different things.

[Unknown Speaker 4]

Okay, so y'all swapped, you didn't sell or the other way around?

[Hayden]

No other way around. Other way around sold.

[Unknown Speaker 4]

You didn't swap yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

I still don't 100%.

[Sagar]

What he's saying is a little bit lost on me. I think that I was reading about there's a way you can pull out just the cash and leave like the token in which tries to. To maintain the market so that people don't see that you're just completely selling out and tanking it. And I think he's saying, we didn't do that when they're talking about sniping. So you can imagine if you know the coin is about to drop and nobody else knows, you buy it immediately. And so part of the other. So he admits not only he's involved with Melania and with Libra, the Javier Molay one, that he was part of this market manipulation tactic of sniping, where you buy a bunch at the beginning, you pump it up. And then what happened both with Melania and in the case of Libra is then once the market sort of hits the top, you start selling out, the whole thing crashes, and that's what makes it a rug pull. Now he claims, oh, we weren't the biggest snipers on Melania, and we saw with Trump that there were all these people that got in that were market manipulated. So we didn't want to be left out basically of the fun. So he admits that they engage in this market manipulation of the Melania coin and with the Libra coin, and it's just incredible. Well, there was more fraud and scams all around.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

There was more on Trump that they admitted to. The insider trading aspect of People being told at that crypto ball here in Washington about some of that. Let's take a listen.

[Unknown Speaker 4]

You kind of were like, hey, people should think about these things. What should they think about from your perspective? Like, what is going on on the inside?

[Hayden]

Yeah, I think the best one to look at, like from a Cuz I know, like, like both money was raised and the most amount of money was made was on Trump. I think that's the best example. Just being honest. Because you know that, right? You know that people were able to buy in at 500 million.

[Unknown Speaker 4]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, like people snipe that coin too, you mean?

[Hayden]

No, no, no, no, no, no. Like at the. When before it launched, at some private dinner that they gave people special access to buying it.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

What?

[Hayden]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 4]

Wait, wait, what?

[Hayden]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Who. Who get.

[Unknown Speaker 4]

Who gave that? Who gave that?

[Hayden]

But that was what I was told. Like there were people at some sort of crypto event in Washington, dc.

[Unknown Speaker 4]

I don't know if that's true, but if that's true.

[Hayden]

That's what I was told. That's what I was told, by the way.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Okay, see that was the biggest one to me about the 500 million buy into the Trump shitcoin. That was posted immediately after Trump became president, leading to the immediate sell off and all of that. We don't have a ton of time cause we have a guest standing by. But it's like I said, at a certain point, I don't feel bad for these people anymore. Every single person involved, from Portnoy to Hayden to any of these others, people who are buying in, the 75,000 or so people who bought in, it's like, look, you guys are trying to do a get rich quick stream and you got burned. It's like, well, you know, listen idiots, the path to wealth is out there. You can buy s and P500. People don't wanna do that. They wanna do single game parlays and do all of this. It's like, well, you get what you deserve at a certain point. What's the point?

[Sagar]

Stupid people deserve protection too, Saga, Honestly.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

No, this is a capitalist country.

[Sagar]

You have the right to go bust. They're taking advantage of the trust that people have in a Dave Portnoy, in a Javier Molay, in these other creators and influencers. That's why they get these like Twitch streamers and whatever to promote these things. They're taking advantage of that trust and they're scamming people are ripping them off. And I think it should be illegal. I think it should be. I think it's really wrong. I think it should be completely. I mean these things are just brazen Ponzi schemes. I don't even understand how it is legal, but they keep buying it. It is such an open pyramid scheme. That's all it is. There is no value here. It's just this imaginary bullshit thing pumped up by whatever influencer or President of the United States or first lady of the United States or President of Argentina. So I find it just the whole thing to be so dystopian, so grotesque, should be illegal. And I don't really understand how it's not. But people like Hayden Davis, they're getting rich.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Well, on the president side, I couldn't agree with you more. Look, this is what I don't get. I'm just a silly YouTuber, came to me with a pump and dump crypto scam. Even if it was enough to retire, I would never do it. It's like, dude, you're the President of Argentina. It's like presumably you're gonna get filthy rich off of this, right? Especially with all of your connections. Why? What's the point?

[Sagar]

We should say for the lawyers, he deleted his original post and he claims he really didn't know and he claims he didn't benefit from it, but this president here certainly did, did know and did benefit from it, et cetera.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Even if you take Marley's explanation at face value, considering all of the recent just two month track record of hock to a Trump shit coin, Melania, and all of this, why would you ever put your fingers on any of this stuff? Do you have no judgment? Like up here, this one's like, why do I have better judgment than you? That's why. I don't know.

[Sagar]

That's my thing is how do you expect ordinary people to be more savvy about this than, you know, the fricking president of Argentina who is like a global celebrity now in these libertarian circles.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

I just, I don't know what to do in a society where people are desper to legalize, get rich quick. Like we were talking about sports betting. They want to be ripped off. That's what you. Every single time that people use a sports betting app, you're gonna lose in the long run. If you're a winner, they'll just ban you people. I was just talking earlier today. Mark Cuban's got a new credit card out there secured by your car equity. Amazing. 30% APR. People are signing up left and right for helocs and balloon loans.

[Sagar]

But the answer with sports betting isn't to make it more unregulated. The answer, as you laid out in the big monologue you did, is to make it more.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

But they don't want that.

[Sagar]

People don't want that. It's put the guardrails on and make sure that people are actually protected so they're not losing their whole life savings and killing themselves in the worst of circumstances or having their entire life ruined, et cetera. It's not to just be like, well, laissez faire, I guess let's just let everybody get scared.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

If you put it to the ballot box, it would pass by 80%. To make it. They wanna make it even easier to place bets. They wanna place bets on every play, every touchdown.

[Sagar]

Some people y. I'm not sure how it would fare at the ballot box, I'm not sure about, but it's passing. Every single place except for is at least somewhat regulated. This is, you know, he's just admitting brazenly like insider trading and manipulation or whatever. I Don't think he's gonna face any legal trouble.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

I actually do think he'll face legal trouble. Cause he admitted to literal insider trading. Now, under the current SEC regime, and all of that is possible at the same time.

[Sagar]

The whole reason they're there is to let guys like this steal your money.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

See, I actually disagree because if you're a crypto person, they're the people. The real crypto insider, the Bitcoin ETF guys, the Winklevine, all that, they hate these Meme Coin shitcoin stuff because it makes them look bad, because they want to. They want more integration to their legitimate financial systems.

[Sagar]

Not really any different, I don't think. Hey, that's what Hayden Davis says.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

That's not true. He's talking about Meme coins.

[Sagar]

No, we talked about Bitcoin specifically in this interview as well, just not even remotely the same. Last notes before we wrap this up. Number one important, Portnoy got paid his money back.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Yes, that's right. I mean, at least he admitted that.

[Sagar]

So you guys got screwed. But don't worry, Hayden Davis made sure to make Portnoy whole. And yes, they did disclose it, and it's out in the open, but that is grotesque because Dave Portnoy has plenty of money. He's gonna be just fine. But they made sure to make him whole. Okay? And then the other thing is that Javier Milei is actually. They're looking at, like, impeachment and charging him with corruption and fraud, whatever. I don't know if any of that goes anywhere. I have no idea. There are Argentine justice system, et cetera. But this has been a massive political scandal for him. I don't think there's any doubt about it.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

No.

[Sagar]

Yeah, I was reading a big problem for him because the very people who were hurt the most by this were the biggest believers in him. And it was just such a brazen scam that, yeah, I think it is a genuine political problem for him in Argentina.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

That is correct. I looked this morning at how the Argentine press is covering it, but I have no idea. It's not like they have the greatest track record in terms of their judicial system. That's right, though, about Portnoy. It's absolutely. I mean, he disclosed it. He's like, yeah, he paid me back 5 million or whatever, but that just gives you some insight. So listen, if you're out there and you're watching a Twitch stream and somebody's trying to encourage you to buy Meme Coin, but I know nobody will listen, what's the point?

[Sagar]

You know, but, you know, enjoy your.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Shit coins and enjoy your single game parlays. Yeah, I'm gonna keep my money in the S&P 500.

[Sagar]

When the Trump thing launched, you saw so many, oh, we're all getting rich. Blah, blah, blah. Like people bought the. Just don't, guys. Just, just don't. Hayden Davis told you the only people who make money are the insiders. They're just trying to fool you and rip you off. Please.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Same with the sports gambling companies. The only people making money are FanDuel and DraftKings. Their stock is up by 12% in the last month off the Super Bowl. Thanks for your coin. Coinage money. That's the only thing that they're telling you.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

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[Sagar]

Wasn't that delicious?

[April Verrett]

So good.

[Krystal]

Your bill, ladies.

[Sagar]

I got it.

[April Verrett]

No, I got it. Seriously. It says I insisted first.

[Krystal]

Don't be silly.

[April Verrett]

You don't be silly.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

People with the Wells Fargo Active Cash credit card prefer to pay because they earn unlimited 2% cash back on purchases.

[April Verrett]

Okay. Rock, paper, scissors for it. Rock, paper, scissors.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Shoot.

[Krystal]

No.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

The Wells Fargo ActiveCash Credit Card. Visit wells fargo.comactivecash Terms apply.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Tired of restless nights? At Leesa, they know good sleep is essential for mental, physical and emotional health. From memory foam mattresses to hybrids that keep you co all night long, Lisa's mattresses offer exceptional comfort and support with free delivery and 100 nights to try out your mattress in the comfort of your home. Go to leesa.com today and get 20% off all mattresses and two free pillows. That's L-E-E-S-A.com and use code iheart for an extra $50 off your purchase. Remember, no matter who you are, there's a Lisa just for you.

[Sagar]

Very fortunate to be joined this morning by April Verrett. She is a president of the seiu. They've been involved in a number of action government and their illegal behavior. Great to see you, April. Welcome.

[April Verrett]

Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

[Sagar]

Yeah, of course. So we can put this first tear sheet up on the screen. I know you all have been involved in some of the lawsuits about accessing data at Department of Labor, at hhs, at cfpb, also at the Treasury. Just talk to us a little bit about your thinking and your decision to get involved in these lawsuits.

[April Verrett]

Yeah. There has been such an extreme amount of chaos and uncertainty since the inauguration on January 20 and working people have had enough. And so we were proud to lend our voice along with others in the labor movement and the progressive movement to try to put a stop to this outrageous overreach. And we believe that what this so called DOGE is doing is highly illegal. Going into personal data of folks is just unwarranted, unnecessary. And we're happy to do our part to put a stop to it.

[Sagar]

Yeah. What are you hearing from your members? Because one of the debates that Sager and I have been having here is about how much this is landing with working people since, you know, Social Security hasn't been cut yet, Medicaid hasn't been cut yet. We'll get to more on that in a moment. Medicare hasn't been cut yet. So far it's a huge spectacle. It's this giant power grab. But maybe it's not biting and hitting people's pocketbooks just yet. What is your sense from your membership of how engaged they are, how concerned they are, or do they feel like, oh, well, they're making the government more efficient? Who wouldn't support that?

[April Verrett]

I don't know how knowing my Social Security number or yours or having access to my tax returns or yours or billions of other people in the country is making the government more efficient. Not only that, we have folks who have filed complaints, wage and hour violation complaints, against companies owned by Elon Musk. And that data lies inside of the Department of Labor. And so for him to have access to everything, including information about folks who have filed complaints against him, I think American people have something to say about that. It just goes against the tenets of our democracy and just what's fair and right.

[Sagar]

So one of the things that I wanted to talk to you about is they've taken these actions so quickly and made Elon Musk, I mean, basically like this sort of CEO dictator of the country. And they're betting on it all happening so fast that the system can't really react. And obviously Republicans in Congress have just sort of laid down, they're just gonna go along with it, cede their own power to the executive. The Democrats in Congress seem to be strugg to figure out what exactly they can do to deal with the situation. So you're only really left with the court system, which I know is why you got involved with these lawsuits. Have there been broader conversations though, between you and other labor leaders about maybe some more creative or more coordinated actions with the labor movement and all of the millions of union members that exist nationwide?

[April Verrett]

Yeah, I think we have to remember this is. I lose count of the days. Right. But there's certainly far more days ahead of us with this administration than we have behind us. And so we have to pace ourselves. This is going to be a marathon. It is absolutely not a sprint. And they seem to be throwing everything and the kitchen sink at us. But I expect there's going to be a lot more to come. And so it's important that we all take a deep breath, that we pace ourselves, that we are strategic as we possibly can be, that we choose the smart battles to wage, but that we have to stand up against what is un American and just not right. And so I think we will see in the coming weeks and months ahead much more strategic, escalated, coordinated pushback not just from the labor movement, but from all corners of the country where we seek to continue to build the power of working people to break this hold that this administration seems to have over our country to bridge the gap between us and others who may not share all of our political beliefs, but want a country that actually is one that has a vibrant and healthy democracy and to. And to begin to fix and heal, I think, some of what's wrong in the country right now.

[Sagar]

I know you also have been involved, your union's been involved in pushing back against looming Medicaid cuts. We can put E2 up on the screen. Republicans are getting their sort of budget proposals together. Piece of that is a giant $4 trillion tax cut for the rich. Another thing that is a major priority here from House Republicans are cuts to Medicaid. According to the Hill. They say they put that at the top of their list of budget cuts to help pay for their wide ranging agenda that spans tax cuts, energy production and border security. Put the next One up on the screen too. To your point about some unlikely bedfellows here, Steve Bannon is actually warning Republicans about this move. He says Medicaid, you gotta be careful because a lot of magas are on Medicaid. I'm telling you, if you don't think so, you are dead wrong. So talk to us about some of the efforts your union is making to push back against these cuts.

[April Verrett]

Yeah. So first we have to know and remember, 80 million Americans depend on Medicaid for their health care coverage in this country. Most of those are children, half are children, and a lot of them are seniors. And so it is just incontronable to believe that we would take away health care access and coverage for the most vulnerable among us. And I don't ever say this, I think maybe the first time ever, but I agree with Steve Bannon. Medicaid is not a blue issue. It's not a red issue. It's not right or left. It's American and it's Americans health care coverage. And so we know that Republicans and Democrats alike depend on this program. Red states and blue states. 30% of state budgets is Medicaid and health care related costs. And so if you make those types of cuts so deep into state budgets, it doesn't just affect Medicaid, it affects every single part of a state budget. And so we need to raise our voices. We had over 300 people on Capitol Hill a couple of weeks ago lobbying Democrats and Republicans alike on this issue because working people are not going to stand by and watch this type of devastation happen to our communities.

[Sagar]

Last question for you, April. What do you make of some of the political trend towards Republicans among union members and specifically towards Donald Trump, who's made a pretty concerted effort to appeal to some union members?

[April Verrett]

Look, union members are regular, everyday people, right? We don't have a country without working people. And that includes folks who belongs to unions. And I believe that folks want lower prices. They want more control, more agency over their lives. They want to know that they can take care of their families and keep a roof over their heads and send their kids to college and hey, maybe take a vacation every once in a while. And I believe that's what folks thought that they were voting for. But we are almost a month in and I haven't seen the price of eggs get any lower. I haven't seen people more certain about the stability of our country. All that I've seen is chaos and uncertainty. And so I think if they continue to do what they do, folks will know what the truth is, and that is that they voted for someone who is not really on the side of working people. It is clear he is on the side of his billionaire cronies and the corporations that they lead. And it's time for us to take our country back and make sure it's one where working people stand a chance to get ahead.

[Sagar]

April Verrett, president of Service Employees International Union. Great to have you. Welcome. Thank you so much for joining us.

[April Verrett]

Thank you.

[Sagar]

Wasn't that delicious?

[April Verrett]

So good.

[Krystal]

Your bill, ladies.

[Sagar]

I got it.

[April Verrett]

No, I got it. Seriously, I insist. I insisted first.

[Krystal]

Don't be silly.

[April Verrett]

You don't be silly.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

People with the Wells Fargo Active cash credit card prefer to pay because they earn unlimited 2% cash back on purchases.

[April Verrett]

Okay. Rock, paper, scissors for it. Rock, paper, scissors, shoot.

[Krystal]

No.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

The Wells Fargo Active cash credit card. Visit Wells Fargo.com ActiveCash Terms apply.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Tired of restless nights at Leesa, they know good sleep is essential for mental, physical and emotional health. From memory foam mattresses to hybrids that keep you cool all night long, Lisa's mattresses offer exceptional comfort and support with free delivery and 100 nights to try out your mattress in the comfort of your home. Go to leesa.com today and get 20% off all mattresses and two free pillows. That's le-a.com and use code iheart for an extra $50 off your purchase. Remember, no matter who you are, there's a Lisa just for you.

[Hayden]

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[Unknown Speaker 3]

Joining us now is friend of the show Allie Bethstucky. She is the host of Relatable. And it's great to see you.

[Krystal]

Great to see you too. Thank you.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

All right, so Ali's here to horseshoe people into traditional values reacting, it seems, to this Elon Musk saga. Let's put this up there on the screen. For those who have not yet seen the news, Ashley St. Clair, she's a conservative influencer, I guess you would call, has claimed now to have had Elon Musk's 13th child reveals she sat down for a tabloid interview. Here a life of secrecy after a whirlwind romance with a down to earth billionaire. What we learn a little bit more from this entire saga is that there's been some disputes between Ms. St. Clair, between Elon Musk, about paternity, it seems, in terms of his responsibility. And it's spawned a lot of discussion online amongst the conservative intelligentsia, I guess, over having a child out of wedlock about these arrangements for family and what is the ideal outcome if you wanna live a good and a happy life. So let's put her statement here where she says, five months ago, I welcomed a new baby into the world. Elon Musk is the father. I've not previously disclosed this to protect our child's safety and privacy, but in recent days it's become clear the tabloid media intends to do so regardless of the harm it will cause. Initially she was saying there it's a tabloid story. However, she did participate later in that report from the New York Post. So, Ali, what do you make of all this as a participant in the discourse?

[Krystal]

Yes. Okay. So when I saw this news, I was so shocked by it. I literally woke my husband up out of his slumber. And he didn't. He was like delirious. He was like, I think I'm dreaming. There's no way that you're telling the truth. And as it started unraveling and we were digging more into it, we realized it is very much true. And I have a lot of conflicting feelings about it. I mean, I know exactly where I stand when it comes to marriage and children and families, formation of families. We need not just more babies, we need access to actually stable families for society to survive and thrive. And so I know Elon Musk is a part of this, like, desire to repopulate the earth like Genghis Khan. I think he's even said something like that before. But we don't just need more babies, we need more stability. And from my understanding, this was the intentional creation of a child that they knew was not going to have a stable two parent home. And because of that, I couldn't participate in the celebration and the congratulation. It's not that I think that the baby isn't valuable, of course, the baby is so worthy of love and celebration and all of that. Absolutely. But this seems to be a very sordid and purposeful situation. And I just don't think that I can publicly be a part of celebrating that.

[Sagar]

Well, in part, you know, we had a debate internally that I don't think saga might be revealing of. Like, should we cover this? Because it does feel like, you know, it's trashy. It's like, you know, it's very personal, all those sorts of things. But to Your point? First of all, Elon Musk is one of the most powerful people on the planet at this point. And number two, to your point, it does speak to this like, ideology that he has. So I think it is important to dig into it. Not to mention, I think the legitimate points people have made of like, if this was Barack Obama, people would certainly be covering it totally. But what did you make of some of response from the right that was like, oh, she's winning at life. She's secured wealth and good genetics for her baby. That one makes me very, very uncomfortable when you start talking in this language of like, genetics and that that should be the goal, sole goal of procreation is having like the perfect baby with the perfect genetics. Obviously that's a dark road to go down. What did you make of some of that reaction?

[Krystal]

Yeah, because there were some different motivations behind the celebration. So I have a lot of pro life, very solid, socially conservative friends who congr and we might disagree on that, but I do not doubt their sincere values. They see it as, I'm just celebrating the existence of a baby and that's all they're doing. But then there were those like you said that were like, who cares? The world needs more babies. This is a good thing. We need more based babies. I saw something like, and so we should just be happy for them. But clearly this is not a happy situation. That's first of all, like, we can see that. We can see that from Ashley's responses. Some of them she deleted. This is actually a very sad, complicated, messy situation. And this little helpless child who didn't consent to any of this is right at the center of it. So I think we should actually be sad that this whole thing happened. But then also when we look at the conservative values of the right. You made a really good point. If this had been Barack Obama or a number of other kinds of people, no one would be celebrating. We would be calling it degenerate behavior, irresponsible, the problem with society, part of the breakdown of society and the breakdown of the family. But baby mama culture, I guess is okay when it's Elon Musk and I just can't get on board with that.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Yeah, you're absolutely right. And you know, to your point, this is deeply exploitive and sad. So let's put this up there on the screen. You know, what you were talking about for some of their back and their fourth, you can see here she says, elon, we've been trying to communicate for the past several days. You have not responded when Are you trying to. Or going to reply to us instead of publicly responding to smears from an individual who just posted photos of me in my underwear at age 15 years old? Like you said, she eventually deleted it, but this is not a happy situation. And so I guess, like bringing it back. And in terms of how we should all look at this arrangement, the eventual sad outcome where you have bickering online while, yes, there's an innocent child in the midst of all of this and what the cultural takeaway should be in terms of celebration and. Or using it as a lesson for everybody out there for their personal lives.

[Krystal]

Yes. Well, I think that it is an interesting picture at what the right is now, what the Republican Party is now. And we knew that when we kind of grabbed onto the Maha movement, which includes a lot of amazing people that I agree with in a lot of ways, but who are also very socially liberal or moderate. We kind of rearranged the right to be a conglomeration of all different types of fundamental values. Like, we agree on important things that won us an election, but we never got down to the basics. I mean, we disagree on fundamental things like the definition of marriage, when life begins, the sanctity of life, if marriage is even necessary, obviously. And so in some ways I think these debates are productive. I see my role, and others like me, to be an anchor on the right, to move the Overton window as much as I can, and to hopefully show people that it's not just about having traditional or old values, but doing what works. If we really want society to win, if we want America to be first, we have to have a stable family unit. And we also have to know, in my opinion, where all of that comes from, which is from a creator who created objective, universal morality and all of that. I'm a Christian, that's where I stand. But at the very least, just looking at it pragmatically, this kind of sowing your wild oats when you're a 53 year old, going after, I don't want to say going after, but being in a relationship, I guess, with a 26 year old conservative commentator, it's just not the way to go. If everyone did that, if everyone did that, then we would all be in a world of hurt. It would all be a mess. So maybe we should think about what is best, not just for us in the moment, but for society in general as well.

[Sagar]

It's interesting you bring up Maha and RFK Jr because my husband woke me up in the middle of the night when The Olivia Nuzzi RFK Jr. Affair came out. And I mean, one of the questions I have for you is, has this ship sailed, in a sense, when Trump himself is how many times divorced and kids with all these different women? And RFK Jr. Is, by his own admission, serial philander. The. The history with him and his ex wife, who is now deceased, is deeply dark and horrifying. You know, has that ship sort of sailed? And I'm not saying those things were celebrated in the same way. I think that's part of what's different about this particular dynamic. But was the road laid out by celebrating, certainly those individuals, even if those particular choices were not part of what was inherently celebrated?

[Krystal]

Yeah, I think that's a fair question. But then you also have J.D. vance, who I think is being heralded as a hero, rightly, by a lot of conservatives, not only because he's just so strong and he's not afraid to say the truth, but also because of his clear family values, because he is so insanely normal. And it feels like a really long time that we've had a normal young family in the White House or, you know, in D.C. and so I think that really, Trump and Elon Musk and rfk, they were simply seen as the people who could get it done. And I still have hope that those who have come over to the right and who have changed a lot of their values over the past few years, that they can still change their values even more to come even further over, because I hear from a lot of these very influential Maha people who tell me privately, you know, I used to be ardently pro choice, and now I'm rethinking that. So I think that there's an opportunity, and I think instead of compromising those of us on the social right over there, we really have to hold the line and be as persuasive as possible.

[Sagar]

Ali, last question I have for you is, how does this fit in? I feel like with Trump and with ELON and with RFK Jr. There's a nexus with sort of like the Andrew Tate version of masculinity, where philandering and getting a lot of women and having basically, this is sort of celebrated as. That's part of what makes you an alpha male. The Trump administration is now trying to pressure Romania to, like, I don't want to get into that whole thing, but let the Tate brothers off the hook, et cetera. How do you. Because I think that's part of what is in tension with the direction you want to push the party in. Is that part of that definition of being an alpha and being a male has come along with that view and that approach to women in parenting, et cetera.

[Krystal]

Yes. So part of it is true, this kind of masculinity, being tough is masculine. Saying what is true while being unafraid to do so is masculine. Being strong, all of those things are masculine. But what I think is, like, maybe peak masculinity or one of the key parts of masculinity is self control. And when we have someone like Andrew Tate who can't even master himself, and yet he is talking about conquering the world by impregnating a bunch of women.

[Sagar]

Yeah.

[Krystal]

I mean, every loser forever has done that. But if you can't even control yourself and your own base passions, then you're really no better than an animal. So I understand why parts of Andrew Tate are like, wow, he's really unafraid to speak against feminism. But of course, I mean, he is no better than any, you know, degenerate that has ever lived. And I do really, I'm very troubled and very worried about the lionization of someone like Andrew Tate on the right. I see that even growing now. And, yeah, that greatly concerns me.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Well, Ali, I respect you so much. I think you're so consistent and just always enjoy talking to you. So I really hope that you come back to the show and it's been just been great hearing your perspective. Thank you.

[Krystal]

Thank you so much.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Thank you guys so much for watching. We appreciate you and we'll see you all on Thursday.

[Krystal]

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[April Verrett]

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[Unknown Speaker 1]

Tired of restless nights? At Lisa, they know good sleep is essential for mental, physical and emotional health. From memory foam mattresses to hybrids that keep you cool all night long, Leesa's mattresses offer exceptional comfort and support with free delivery and 100 nights to try out your mattress in the comfort of your home. Go to leesa.com today and get 20% off all mattresses and two free pillows. That's L-E-E-S-A.com and use code iheart for an extra $50 off your purchase. Remember, no matter who you are, there's Elisa just for you.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Hey, I'm Don Wildman. And on American History hit my expert guests and I journey across the nation and through the years to uncover the stories that have made the United States. From first flight to first ladies, from stitching the Star Spangled Banner to striking gold in California to shooting for the moon with Apollo. We've got you covered. Catch new episodes of American History. Hit a podcast by history. Hit every Monday and Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts.