2/18/26: Hillary Lies About Epstein, Israeli Gov Installed Surveillance For Epstein, Trump Nonsense On Iran, Trump Bombs More Boats

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar

Episode Summary – February 18, 2026

Main Topics: Hillary Clinton’s response to Epstein ties, Israeli government’s Epstein surveillance, Trump administration’s Iran/Iran deal maneuvering, new U.S. strikes on alleged narco-trafficking boats, and the elite accountability crisis.

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Overview

This episode delivers a fearless, detailed breakdown of several major stories frequently omitted or softened by establishment media. Krystal Ball and Ryan Grim (co-hosting while Saagar is off) lead with a fresh trove of Jeffrey Epstein revelations, hold the powerful to account—including a heated examination of Hillary Clinton’s public denials and new forensic evidence tying Israeli official surveillance to Epstein's activities. The show pivots to global hotspots: Iran negotiations, Gaza, and a critical look at the normalization of Trump-era U.S. drone strikes on boats, all colored by the hosts' signature blend of dry wit and no-nonsense analysis.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Epstein & Elite Accountability

(03:13–22:16)

• New Reporting on Epstein and Israeli Surveillance

  • Ryan Grim teases out his original journalism: The Israeli government, through its UN Permanent Mission, installed surveillance equipment at Epstein's East 66th Street apartment for years, citing frequent stays by former Israeli PM Ehud Barak as the rationale.
  • “If any guests went in and out of the Epstein apartment, they had to run them through the Israeli consulate.” – Ryan Grim (04:13)
  • Barak’s close relationship with Epstein is further exposed by surveillance measures extending to rigorous guest vetting.
  • Emails also link Israeli intelligence figures and broader elite networks to the apartment.

• Epstein’s Business Network and Influence

  • Epstein and Barak “flipped” contacts from Nigerian surveillance deals (ostensibly for humanitarian reasons) into lucrative port security agreements for Dubai Ports World, via facial recognition derived from tech trialed in Gaza—a notable intersection of public and corporate interests.

• Elite Culture of Impunity

  • Tom Pritzker, billionaire executive chairman of Hyatt, steps down citing Epstein connections. Emails reveal banter about grooming girls and organizing suspect trips.
  • “We allowed this world to be created where you have this ecosystem of people who operate above accountability and with impunity.” – Ryan Grim (19:14)
  • The hosts emphasize that the Epstein scandal is symptomatic of elite rot, not an isolated incident.

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2. Hillary Clinton’s Response to Epstein Questions

(07:03–14:21)

• Clinton, at the Munich Security Conference, claims “we have no links” to Epstein—only for her to immediately correct herself, referencing Bill Clinton’s flight records and Ghislaine Maxwell's involvement.
  • Quote: “We have no links. We have a very clear record that we’ve been willing to talk about…” – Hillary Clinton (07:31)
• Krystal and Ryan do a real-time fact check:
  • Photos, emails, and collaborative charity efforts disprove Clinton’s minimization of ties.
  • “If you look at the pictures from their travels, it wasn’t just some hands-off…No, they were literally touring around together. Standing next to each other...” – Krystal Ball (10:26)
• The hosts dissect elite deflection, noting Clinton’s complaints about being “singled out” while attention is diverted from others implicated (e.g., Prince Andrew).
  • “She fact checked herself. Immediately afterwards…” – Ryan Grim (09:21)
• The conversation broadens: Congressional theater vs. pursuing real institutional accountability (banks, deeper subpoenas), per Rep. Thomas Massie’s critique.

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3. New Developments: Israeli Government Surveillance in Epstein’s Orbit

(24:43–39:34)

• Deep-dive into DropSite’s findings:
  • The Israeli government took charge of security at Epstein’s apartment due to Barak’s lengthy stays, installing alarms and surveillance well after Epstein’s 2008 conviction.
  • “According to emails…anybody who wanted to go into the apartment had to have a background check and had to be cleared by the Israeli government.” – Ryan Grim (24:56)
  • Details implicate an Israeli intelligence web using properties controlled by Epstein (and his brother).
• Larger implications for state vs. extra-state activity:
  • The tight collaboration of Israel’s intelligence, business, and military/industrial sectors undermines the notion of clean state/non-state boundaries.
  • “There’s basically no membrane [between Israeli intelligence and the cyber/weapons industries]…” – Ryan Grim (37:47)

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4. Trump, Iran, and Middle East Policy

(42:16–58:35)

• Iran Nuclear Negotiations
  • U.S. and Iran reportedly settle "guiding principles" for a deal, but public statements by Trump undercut credibility.
  • “It’s got to be a good deal: no nuclear weapons, no missiles, no this, no that, all the different things that you want.” – Donald Trump, as quoted by Ryan Grim (45:40)
  • Trump’s contradictory posture—sending envoys for negotiation while massing military force—creates confusion for both allies and adversaries.
• Gaza Ceasefire & Disarmament Talks
  • Trump sends Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff to Geneva for talks paralleling the Iran discussions.
  • Krystal notes Trump’s reliance on Kushner and Witkoff “to put together grand goals that can be marketed as major wins for peace, world peace.” (51:07)
  • Hamas reportedly refuses unilateral disarmament, willing only to discuss in the context of a broader Palestinian security authority.
  • “Hamas is saying, we’re not just going to disarm and allow the Israelis to come in and massacre us.” – Ryan Grim (52:22)

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5. US Boat Strikes: The Normalization of Drone Warfare

(61:08–71:56)

• Recent Boat Strikes in the War on Drugs
  • U.S. military (Southern Command) claims three lethal "narco-terrorist" boat strikes, kills 11. The hosts scrutinize official justifications and the lack of due process.
  • “They’re just blowing them up. Once again.” – Krystal Ball (62:34)
  • Binocular-based Coast Guard stops get it wrong one-third of the time, so why trust distant drone operators?
  • “If the Coast Guard, which has been doing this for decades and can do it from the sea, is getting it wrong one out of three times, why do we think Pete Hegseth doing it as a video game is gonna get it right 100% of the time?” – Ryan Grim (64:09)
  • Legal rationale for such strikes is further demolished by the recent regime change in Venezuela—the prior justification being direct Venezuelan state sponsorship of narco-terrorism.
  • “Now… we pulled out our rationale for these strikes and continue the strikes anyway because we do not care.” – Ryan Grim (70:49)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "We allowed this world to be created where you have this ecosystem of people who operate above accountability and with impunity." – Ryan Grim [19:14]
• "She fact checked herself. Immediately afterwards, she's like, we have no links. Well, my husband took some rides on his plane as part of his charitable work." – Ryan Grim [09:21]
• "If you look at the pictures from their travels, it wasn’t just some hands-off…No, they were literally touring around together. Standing next to each other..." – Krystal Ball [10:26]
• "According to emails…anybody who wanted to go into the apartment had to have a background check and had to be cleared by the Israeli government." – Ryan Grim [24:56]
• "There’s basically no membrane [between Israeli intelligence and the cyber/weapons industries]…" – Ryan Grim [37:47]

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Timestamps – Key Segments

• Epstein New Revelations & Israeli Surveillance – 03:13 to 22:16
• Hillary Clinton’s BBC Interview & Fact-Check – 07:03 to 14:21
• Tom Pritzker Resignation & Elite Accountability – 14:35 to 22:16
• Dropsite Investigation: Israeli Tech/Surveillance in Nigeria & UAE – 24:43 to 39:34
• Trump’s Iran Policy, Gaza Ceasefire, and War Drums – 42:16 to 58:35
• US Drone Boat Strikes & Normalization of Extrajudicial Actions – 61:08 to 71:56

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Tone and Style

The hosts’ approach is at once wry and incisive, mixing dark comedic asides (“No water, too. I just, I don’t think I could do it [Ramadan].”) with serious, forensic analysis of government and elite abuses. They lean on thorough reporting, fact-checking in real time, and ask rhetorical questions meant to cut through PR spin and official deflection.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode is essential listening if you want to understand how elite impunity, state secrecy, and evolving U.S. foreign policy interconnect. It’s peppered with exclusive reporting (especially on Israel-Epstein links and surveillance tech), sharp debunking of establishment narratives, and a running critique of how "the Epstein Class" continues to act outside consequence. The podcast remains resolutely anti-establishment, providing rare insight into stories often ignored, diminished, or sanitized elsewhere.

Transcript

[Krystal Ball]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Krystal Ball]

Hey guys, Sagar and Krystal here.

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[Krystal Ball]

This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.

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[Krystal Ball]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breaking points.com.

[Ryan Grim]

All right, good morning and welcome to Breaking Points. First day of Ramadan.

[Krystal Ball]

Yes.

[Ryan Grim]

Well, it's one of those holidays where I'm like, I just, I don't think I could do it.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, it's tough.

[Ryan Grim]

No water too.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, Lent too, right? It's first day of Lent. 40 day fasting.

[Ryan Grim]

Do they always line up or no?

[Krystal Ball]

I don't know. I'm not sure.

[Ryan Grim]

Let us know. We don't know anything about any of this.

[Krystal Ball]

I'm Protestant.

[Ryan Grim]

Good luck on all of it. It's like I'm impressed by the commitment to it.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, stick to it. We'll be rooting you on.

[Ryan Grim]

We will. From here.

[Krystal Ball]

From behind the desk.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes. Well quenched, well fed from behind a desk, per usual. Exactly.

[Krystal Ball]

Oh, that's the title of your memoir. Well quenched, well fed from behind a desk.

[Ryan Grim]

Perfect. All right, so we got more Jeffrey Epstein news.

[Krystal Ball]

Sure do.

[Ryan Grim]

We're going to talk about all of the Jeffrey Epstein news and then we're also going to talk about some new drop site reporting. Wild story that I did with Maaz about how Jeffrey Epstein and Ehud Barak used the Boko Haram crisis to say, you know, why don't you let us in with a little bit of, a little bit of surveillance technology and we'll see if we can help you out. They even like, they went to a Christian school in Nigeria where like, don't you, wouldn't you guys like a little power plant near there so you can power the school? They wound up with facial recognition technology instead.

[Krystal Ball]

It was a package.

[Ryan Grim]

And then he flips those contacts into a deal for his buddy over at Dubai Ports World to be able to, you know, get that Emirati company in there. This just fun. And then we were also going through the, the emails continuing over at JMail and found that the Israeli consulate in the UN permanent mission had Jeffrey Epstein's apartment under surveillance for a couple years. So Ehud Barak would stay there. And because he would stay there, they then linked up with the consulate to put in surveillance technology into the apartment and an alarm system. And if any guests went in and out of the Epstein apartment, they had to run them through the Israeli consulate.

[Krystal Ball]

Hmm. That's a big find.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, I think so.

[Krystal Ball]

That's a big find. Yes.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, I think that's a. That's a pretty. Going to be hard to explain that one.

[Krystal Ball]

We're going to break it down. So we've got lots and lots of Epstein news today. Also video of Hillary Clinton having a meltdown. Getting asked some basic questions about all of this. Ryan, there's rough week for her. What's that?

[Ryan Grim]

Rough week for her.

[Krystal Ball]

She's been having. This is the second meltdown, I think, in a week.

[Ryan Grim]

Getting pushed around over in Munich.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, that was not a good showing for her. Also, they're working on apparently an Iran deal. We'll see how that turns out. But Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner were in Geneva yesterday negotiating on that.

[Ryan Grim]

So administration definitely serious about negotiations this time. Definitely not going to kill the negotiators.

[Krystal Ball]

Ryan found a really funny Trump quote on this that we will save for that block. Another boat strike. Another quote, unquote narco strike on a vessel that was announced yesterday. So we'll break that down. We are technically in a partial government shutdown. Easy to forget in these insane news cycles over dhs.

[Ryan Grim]

Land is vulnerable.

[Krystal Ball]

The homeland has never been less secure. And we also have what Ryan Mamdani W. Is that what we're calling this?

[Ryan Grim]

Yes. And now he's also calling for some tax increases to cover the budget shortfall. That is not his fault. He's only been in there for five weeks. There is a budget shortfall, but, yeah, people said there's no way he can freeze the rent. The rent. The Rent Control Board has nothing to do with the mayor. Like there's. He can't appoint the people till much later. No, he can. And he's getting it done. We will. It's February and he's delivering on like, another one of his promises.

[Krystal Ball]

We'll break all that down. And new updates in Sudan that we have coming as well.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes, there's finally some US Pressure toward a resolution. We'll see what comes of it, but we'll break that down.

[Krystal Ball]

And just a reminder, if everyone has been finding the Epstein reporting, the Epstein coverage that we do here at Breaking Points helpful, great way to support the show is to subscribe on YouTube. It helps us so much. If you can afford a premium membership, that's helpful as well. BreakingPoints.com, you get the full show in your inbox early. All at once, every single day. And access to the second half of the Friday shows, which tend to be pretty fun.

[Ryan Grim]

It's the best part of the week.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, I agree. I always look forward to it. All right, let's start with Hillary Clinton, who was sitting for an interview and as Ryan pointed out, has had a little bit of a rough week. She's at the Munich Security conference next week. They have technically what's supposed to be their public Epstein hearing. So we'll see actually if that ends up happening and how it ends up happening. But Hillary Clinton sat for an interview with the BBC. Here is her response to some questions about Jeffrey Epstein. Do you regret the links that there have been.

[Hillary Clinton]

You know, we have no links. We have a very clear record that we've been willing to talk about, which my husband has said he took some rides on the airplane for his charitable work. I don't recall ever meeting him.

[Krystal Ball]

Did you ever meet Ghislaine Maxwell?

[Hillary Clinton]

I did on a few occasions. And thousands of people go to the Clinton Global Initiative. So it to me is not something that is really at the heart of what this matter is about. They are accused and in both cases were convicted of horrific crimes against girls and women. That should be the focus. And we are more than happy to say what we know, which is very limited and totally unrelated to their behavior or their crimes. And we want to do it in public because let's make this transparent.

[Krystal Ball]

There are calls for another individual who denies wrongdoing to go before Congress on this matter. Andrew Mountbatten Windsor, formerly Prince Andrew. Do you think he should testify?

[Hillary Clinton]

I think everybody should testify.

[Krystal Ball]

Look, including the former prince.

[Hillary Clinton]

I think everybody should testify who was asked to testify. I just want it to be fair. I want everybody treated the same way. That's not true for my husband and me because other witnesses were asked to testify. They gave written statements under oath. We offered that they want to pull us. Why did they want to pull us into this? To divert attention from President Trump. This is not complicated.

[Krystal Ball]

Quote, we have no links. I will turn now to the breaking point. Some Budsman known as Ryan Grim fact check, true, false.

[Ryan Grim]

Well, she, I mean, she fact checked herself. Immediately afterwards, she's like, we have no links. Well, my husband took some rides on his plane as part of his charitable work. Epstein played and Maxwell played a role in like helping to organize the charitable work to begin with. Yeah, Clinton Global Initiative. So that's, that's a link. But the plane is not nothing, not at all. And there were people at the time who were like, there's a lot of planes that you could be riding around on.

[Krystal Ball]

As the former president.

[Ryan Grim]

As the former president, why don't do Epstein? He also had that guy Burkle who was a total creep. You can look up. This is a family friendly show. I'm not even gonna tell you. It's worse than the Lolita Express. Almost. No, actually, Lolita Express is worse. But it also had its own bad nickname. So not once, but twice he wound up in planes with like, you know, sordid nicknames linked to exploitation of women. And then they can, like, they continue to have relationship out of that. It's like there's. We got the photos from Clinton.

[Krystal Ball]

I was gonna say you can actually, in the pictures from their travels, give you a really good glimpse at how this was organized. Because it wasn't just some hands off. It's clearly, if you look at the pictures, it wasn't just some sort of like, hands off flight. Epstein comes, stays, you know, does his own thing. Clinton does his own thing. No, they were literally touring around together. They're standing next to each other and many, many pictures. Yeah, it's. It's absurd.

[Ryan Grim]

Now this is before Epstein was charged or convicted the first time.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

So you can say that a lot of people who met him were like, guys, a creep.

[Krystal Ball]

However, well, he had young women massaging Bill Clinton.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes. And you, you also have to understand that this is a world of total creeps. So in Clinton's defense, a lot of people he encounters at this level of society are complete and total creeps. And many of them are like actual mass murderers.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Like, the way they got into their position of power is by overseeing mass violence around the globe. And so I think you're probably. Your moral radar probably is a little haywire by the time, you know, you're in your post presidency and have yourself overseen, you know, mass violence.

[Krystal Ball]

Now, Andrew Kaczynski did another fact check here. This is a two just of Clinton's claim on the Clinton Global Initiative. She says, oh, thousands of people go to the Clinton Global Initiative in response to questions about Ghislaine Maxwell. K file notes, Maxwell did not just go to CGI. Maxwell and her charity partnered with CGI and Maxwell as an honored guest in 2013. Therefore, her ocean charity making commitments at CGI. And as CNN reported, Andrew Kaczynski reported this at CNN. We saw that she had complementary access. There's other reporting from Kaczynski showing that the Clinton Global Initiative, Ryan just mentioned this was built in no small part by donations and work coordination from Epstein and Maxwell. Maxwell was intimately intertwined with Doug Band, who was Bill Clinton's. It was almost what Boris Nikolic was to Bill Gates. This is almost what Doug Band Was at that time to Bill Clinton.

[Ryan Grim]

Band was seen as to people who were close to Clinton at the time. He was sort of like an almost an adopted son. He was that. He was that close to him.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. And they were very clearly, if you look through their emails they're talking about. It's the. You remember the one that I'm thinking of, particularly the boo boo one. It's disgusting.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes. They're. They're. Yes. Extremely close would be an understatement. We have. We found emails. Yeah. Where we. Band, I think, who went to University of Florida and wanted to see them play in Indianapolis in the NCAA championship back in 07 08. I think they were in it both years. One of those years. And he couldn't get any flights because there's not a lot of flights in Indianapolis. So he reaches out to Maxwell and Epstein and Epstein's like, yes, let him have the plane. He found a different plane because he's in Bill Clinton's orbit. So getting a plane was not going to be that big of a problem. There's the thing giving them a watch and stuff. Anyway, they're connected. Now, one person who agrees with Hillary Clinton on part of her point was Thomas Massie when he was here. His point was, yes, she should testify, but it's a distraction. It's theater. And her point that if you're really trying to get to the bottom of what's going on here, we're happy to answer questions in writing like that. Actually, that's. That's a pretty. Like, it's better, I think, to be in person, but like, that's pretty useful. Like if it's. If it's on the record and it's public and it's under oath. But yeah, Massey's. Massey's point is like, you need subpoena power. You need to, like, you need to talk to the banks. Like, you need to get much deeper than just trying to embarrass the Clintons.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Now the public loves some embarrassment of its top officials. So I'm not gonna stand in the way of that.

[Krystal Ball]

Top officials who have been credibly accused of rape and we know abused their power in office for sexual exploits.

[Ryan Grim]

So Bill Clinton's record on this has just been bad his whole entire life.

[Krystal Ball]

The whole entire life. Some really big news in the business world. We can put this next element up on the screen from the New York Post. The Hyatt executive chairman Tom Pritzker has stepped down over Epstein ties. This came out yesterday. He said in a letter to Hyatt's board, according to the Post, that he was exiting, effective immediately, in an effort to show, quote, good stewardship after more than 20 years at the company and would not seek reelection to the board at Hyatt's annual shareholder meeting in May. Good stewardship also means protecting Hyatt, particularly in the context of my association with Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, which I deeply regret. I exercise terrible judgment in maintaining contact with them and there's no excuse for failing to distance myself sooner. Pritzker went on to say, ryan Pritzker is featured in some of your reporting. Why is he stepping down?

[Ryan Grim]

I mean, he. Yeah, he's in there. He's in there. He's. And he seems to be aware of the debaucherous behavior and, and doesn't back.

[Krystal Ball]

Out joking about it.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. And again, like I'm half joking, but I feel bad for some of the elites in the sense that all of the people that they associate with are engaged in terrible things all of the time. Like that's how they got to where they are. And by some fluke chance, Epstein and Maxwell get plucked out as the examples that now the world gree's are horrifying and horrific people and that anybody associated with them needs to go down. Who knows what other creatures crawl within that world, that if you get their emails, if you learned the private details of what they're doing, that they may also have been. Now, were they running like a network like this that had this pyramid scheme level of girls, the teens become in their twenties and then they become the recruiters and then they. It's like an industrial scale type situation. Probably not, but you're talking a matter of degrees rather than kind in depravity that's like on public display inside these circles. And they're just, I think, very used to seeing it and very used to having no accountability. I was also thinking the other day, like, let's say you were one of these elites and you wanted to call out Epstein. Who in the elite world would even believe you?

[Krystal Ball]

Right?

[Ryan Grim]

Like, they would just, they'd be like, oh, some business deal went south with you and Jeffrey, so now you're trying to suck all of us into your drama, Right? There's no mechanism for holding these people accountable. Therefore they're not held accountable and therefore everybody just coasts along with it. Now the reason I'm half joking is because I'm happy to see anybody associated with this go down.

[Krystal Ball]

So in Tom Pritzker, it's not like maybe people don't know his Name, they might know his last name. He has cousins of J.B. pritzker, but he's as we just mentioned, the executive chair of Hyatt, one of the most powerful businessman in the world. He was, I believe he was of the Pritzker family.

[Ryan Grim]

Penny Pritzker, like major Dem donors.

[Krystal Ball]

I was just gonna say.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. Extremely wealthy family.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. There's so much. There's a lot of Pritzker in the library, in the Epstein library the DOJ has. So it makes complete sense. The post has this. They include this back and forth he had with Karina Schuliak who is getting more attention recently as well, where in 2018 he quote agreed to help Epstein's girlfriend arrange a trip to Southeast Asia and asked what she planned to do during the trip, quote, going to find a new girlfriend for Jeffrey Schuliak wrote Pritzker replied with a smiley face emoji and wrote may the force be with you. Lovely.

[Ryan Grim]

Right. So you know, we don't know what he knew exactly, but we knew he had window into some of it.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. And we know he participated.

[Ryan Grim]

Exactly.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. I was going to say. Yeah. We don't know what he participated in. We know that he was cooperating to some extent with Jeffrey Epstein's camp in regards to like organizing trips. And he's going back and forth with Epstein. I think I found one last night where he says he responds to Epstein about something. It says too old even for me. So they have.

[Ryan Grim]

We allowed this world to be created where you have this ecosystem of people who operate above accountability and with impunity. And this is what we've gotten out of it. And that's why I like Ro Khanna's use of Epstein class. Epstein class, like there should not be an Epstein class. Everyone should be accountable to the law.

[Krystal Ball]

So this is an email from Tom Pritzker 2010. He says to Epstein going to Turkey on Wednesday, having dinner with Foreign Minister, then to Kabul for some Cabos with McChrystal. So Stanley McChrystal, Peter's timing of getting out of government is perfect. Not good perfect. Assuming that's about Mandelson. This was 2010, so I don't know. I am on my way to DC to have someone at NSC explain to me how it is that Turkey president is now looking to Iran for friends. Afghan Pres. Is now looking to Taliban for friends. And the Israeli president is looking in the mirror for friends. China looks at CNN and says who needs friends? And the French look in their wine glass for friends. Good one. Tom Pritzker Another banger.

[Ryan Grim]

There you go. Well done, Tom.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, 75.

[Ryan Grim]

What are you still working anyway? You're that rich, which drives me crazy. He's 75 years old. Seriously, The Villages needs. Needs you like, what are you doing the Villages?

[Krystal Ball]

He's probably too rich for the Villages.

[Ryan Grim]

They have like four bedrooms though.

[Krystal Ball]

There you go.

[Ryan Grim]

Get a big one with a screen porch.

[Krystal Ball]

Sounds. Sounds nice. All right, well now let's go to new drop site real quick.

[Ryan Grim]

We don't even have to do the. The like early bird. He can just eat whenever he wants.

[Krystal Ball]

People forget the degree to which you are perhaps the most prominent national reporter on the Villages beat.

[Ryan Grim]

Well, we gotta dive. Actually, we need to dive back into it. If the Villages is going through an incredible scandal, you know, it's a corporation that owns a giant city. And what happens after you can't expand anymore to feed the profits of this corporation, then you have to turn inward and just start extracting more wealth out of the people that you have living there. So they started selling them all Medicare Advantage plans. Oh gosh. And it just became a giant scam and now they're like facing bankruptcy.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, we will definitely have to return to this subject.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, we will indeed. It's crazy and it's like what would happen if you allowed a city prophet seeking city to just extract things from elderly people? Oh, it turns out it will just scam them until to the point of its own bankruptcy.

[Krystal Ball]

That reminds me, speaking of profit seeking cities, I found an email last night between Epstein and Lawrence Krause where they're talking about a trip to Disney World and Epstein suggests to Lawrence Krauss that he has quote, special access to Disney because Kraus is saying I can't get extra Disney tickets sent here for your guests. Too late for that. We can get it when we are there. I won't be able to link her ticket to ours. Do for yours, so I can reserve one or two rides, but that is the only negative. This is 2013. Epstein replies. I have special access. Don't worry.

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Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures [e-mail] disclosures let's talk about modern home shopping.

[Redfin Sponsor]

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[Ryan Grim]

All right, so Maaz Hussain and I will have a piece over at Dropsite later today. Might be up by the time this show goes up that shows that the Israeli government installed alarm, alarms and security equipment, surveillance equipment at Jeffrey Epstein's East 66th street apartment. The stretch, stretching for years according to emails have been released by the Department of justice in 2016 and 2017 at least, and it looks like for periods that go beyond that, because Ehud Barak was staying so frequently in the apartment. He's the former Prime Minister of Israel, and former prime ministers are entitled to certain levels of security throughout the rest of their career. Barak would be especially entitled to it because of his time as Minister of Defense and also as a top intelligence official. He was staying for long stretches of time at Jeffrey Epstein's apartment, which was technically owned by Mark Epstein, but effectively controlled by Jeffrey Epstein, Mark Epstein, his brother, that the Israeli consulate, the UN Permanent Mission for Israel in New York, became responsible for security at this Epstein apartment. And they installed different surveillance and security devices in that apartment put up. I don't know if we have either of these two elements available, but they go back and forth. And it turns out that basically anybody who had to, anybody who had to go, wanted to go into the apartment, had to have a background check and had to be cleared by the Israeli government. And the handler for the apartment even turned over, according to the emails. So, like, they're going back and forth with, you know, they say, hey, we're going to have some new folks coming in and a different person, different Israeli government official responds, I'm taking over for Rafi. I'm now handling this apartment security. That's the gist of what we can glean, you know, just from these documents. Of course. 2016, 2017, this is like long after his conviction. And the first thing it does is blow away the claims by Ehud Barak that they barely ever met. Okay, but I think we have pretty convincingly blown away that one already.

[Krystal Ball]

Oh, my gosh.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. But it also means that the Israeli government, you know, knew how close Epstein and Barak was. This is also the same apartment where Yoni Koren was a, another Israeli spy and a, a protege of, of Barack stayed. He stayed at that apartment as well.

[Krystal Ball]

Where is this part? What is this apartment?

[Ryan Grim]

So it's so East 66th. This is the, this is not the townhouse.

[Krystal Ball]

This is, this is the.

[Ryan Grim]

It's maybe a 20 minute walk from, from this apartment to the kind of Central park famous townhouse. This is, it's a, it's an apartment where he would have people stay who were coming into town.

[Krystal Ball]

I was gonna say, I've seen this in the emails and sometimes it's women.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes, A lot of times it's women. So they would have to clear. He would have to clear those women. If it was during these stretches of.

[Krystal Ball]

Time, he often appears to be giving.

[Ryan Grim]

It as a favor with the Consulate. It is a favor. Like people. And he did his Paris apartment this way, too.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Hey, I'm gonna be in Paris. Can I stay at your place?

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Or I'm gonna be in New York and I stay at your place.

[Krystal Ball]

And sometimes you see him talking to girls where he says, you know, at least do me the courtesy while you're staying in my apartment to keep me at Pride.

[Public Sponsor]

Right.

[Ryan Grim]

Because she didn't get back to him, like, fast enough. She was out of town.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

So I assume that's the E66.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes. Yes.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, so that's very interesting.

[Ryan Grim]

Mark's company owned, like, most of the building. Seems like the developer development company. And. Yeah. So you can read the story for some of the. From some of the details on it. But yeah, so that's a. That's a pretty tight link right there.

[Krystal Ball]

This is what I'm doing.

[Ryan Grim]

The Israeli government was doing the security for Epstein's apartment.

[Krystal Ball]

This is one of the most significant stories to come out of the entire DOJ archive, I think, Ryan. This. This one from UMZ is human language.

[Ryan Grim]

And people will say, well, yeah, it's because. It's because Barack was a former prime minister. And, you know, they all get security. It's like, okay, but like, follow that train of thought a little further. Right? So clearly what this shows, to paraphrase Basma Yousef, is that he was a KGB agent. Yeah, He. Clearly he was working on behalf of the Russians.

[Krystal Ball]

Yes, yes, of course. But I mean, this is the type of thing that was like, it's obvious, you know, if Ehud Barak is staying. It's one of those things where it's like you can connect the dots A and B and say it's happening. But here, what you guys did was prove, right? Like, it's logical. It's the logical follow on. But you guys found the actual proof that it was happening. Everyone would know if Ehud Barak is staying out of place. It's likely that this is happening, but it's not just likely. You know, certainly it really happens.

[Ryan Grim]

I know.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Mazda had another interesting story on Tuesday that if people missed. I think it's. And if you care about this kind of stuff, it's really interesting because it's another window into what. What Epstein was really doing with Barack and with. With the connections that he was building between Dubai Ports World, which is Sultan Sulayem, who quit recently under pressure, although everybody thinks he's put out in some type of garden leave and that, like, he'll. He's still probably in the mix. Like, but you know, I'm sure facing real pressure.

[Krystal Ball]

By the way, sorry, just before you go that I found an email from him last night. He was, Epstein was asking him about another businessman. He said, well, this man is not like me. He's faithful to his life. That's what the Sultan said to Epps.

[Ryan Grim]

Sultan. Sultan, what are you doing, man? Yeah, anyway, yeah, Sultan. Oh boy. So we put up. This is a four. The headline Epstein flipped Israel's Gaza tested biometric scanners into Nigeria ports deal for uae. The kind of headlines that we've been putting on drop size stories lately are kind of mind boggling. You read the story and there is zero sensationalism. This is, it's just a straightforward, like literally what he did here. So Boko Haram was going on its rampage in what, 2013. And the. And so Barack. And actually through his wife, he often used his wife to kind of make the first entree to other officials. They reach out condolences to, you know, for this Boko Haram massacre. We are there for you. And what the way that they are there for you then becomes evident over the following years. They offer. Why don't we come in and for this Christian private school, build a power plant. Like you know, move, move, you know, move this entire community forward. Wonderful. That's, that's terrific. You're going to build a power plant, you know, for this to power this, this school which will then benefit the entire community. That's, that's tremendous. That's, that's, that's what you want the, like, the, the like patrician elites, the good Davos crowd to be doing, lifting people up from poverty. Somehow along the way, instead of building a power plant, they accidentally install facial recognition. Oh no. Technology.

[Krystal Ball]

What a mistake.

[Ryan Grim]

Oh, did we say power plant? We're going to. So we have this product that we have tested in Gaza that they used at the Rafah border crossing which Ehud.

[Krystal Ball]

Barak was involved with.

[Ryan Grim]

So. Ehud Barak, yes. Bringing this in because Epstein and Barak were deeply entrenched in the Israeli cybersecurity and cyber weapons industry. So they tested this facial recognition technology early in Gaza and they say, look, why don't you just install this facial recognition technology here in this school. And at the time there's this big scandal going on in Nigeria because the government had been exposed for using a lot of Israeli surveillance equipment. And you can witness Epstein and Barak kind of massaging and managing the PR and the fallout. And despite the public outcry in Nigeria around this, managing to muscle it through and Then ultimately building enough connections that Epstein is then able to bring Sultan and BP World, DP World into the mix. Nigeria, one of the wealthiest countries in the world, its people do not share in that wealth. It's people like Epstein and Sultan Suleim who extract the wealth, funnel a lot of it to the uae, where it's laundered through their makeshift mafia, like, kind of banking system. And then it emerges in, you know, as like penthouses in Miami and New York and Paris, where it's. Where it continues to be laundered, then drives up, you know, property, you know, drives up the price of housing for people all over. All over the world. Because it has to find. It has to find somewhere to park that is quasi legitimate. So if you're asking how that affects you, it's makes it so you can't afford a house. So. Yeah. So they. That's kind of what they're doing. Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

It's crazy.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. And now Trump is like bombing Nigeria, like, and also like bombing like, even the wrong parts of Nigeria. Not that any parts of Nigeria should be bombed, but he was like, claiming he's like, bombing the remnants of Boko Haram or whatever they've evolved into. Instead, he's bombing completely different parts.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, let me ask if we combine both of these stories, the extent to which we can say, ehudo, I should have.

[Ryan Grim]

You can roll through a five while Emily's talking. This is a slideshow of some of the pieces, so if you want to read that. Oh, yeah, go ahead.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, yeah, so if we combine these two stories, to what extent can we say that ehup. Barack and Jeffrey Epstein were state actors or extra state actors? What do we know about how this was in some ways connected with official Israeli government policy?

[Ryan Grim]

That's. It's not the wrong question. It kind of misunderstands the distinction between state and non state actors.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

In what? In this Davos set. And so, like, Epstein is not like Epstein, to do what Epstein was doing, he would never have had to have been on the payroll of any spy service.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. No.

[Ryan Grim]

Anywhere.

[Krystal Ball]

Yes.

[Ryan Grim]

And for Barack to do what he's doing doesn't need an official portfolio. Sometimes what he was doing, he was still Minister of Defense.

[Krystal Ball]

But that's what I mean. Yeah. Because there.

[Ryan Grim]

So sometimes he was actually Minister of Defense while he's doing these deals with Epstein, for the Most part after March 2013 is when. When Barack leaves office, he then tries to make a comeback in.

[Krystal Ball]

Right.

[Ryan Grim]

20, what, 18, and then into 19. Bannon was going to run his campaign. That it didn't. It fizzled. I think they won like no seats or something. Or one seat or something because he was, he formed a new political party. He was a Labour Party guy. But they're constantly working with the Israeli cybersecurity industry which is fully aligned with Israeli state foreign policy and is completely populated by Unit A200 and other veterans of. There's basically no membrane between these companies. Right. Paragon being the major one that Barack is involved with.

[Krystal Ball]

It's like Lockheed. It's like saying.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. And. Yeah, yeah. And there's probably more of a membrane in some ways between our military industrial complex. But that's the idea. Like it is a, it is a complex.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Like when you. The phrase military industrial complex. It's the same in Israel but probably even tighter because of the way that.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. It's a small country.

[Ryan Grim]

It's a small country. Everybody's moving in and out of these positions. And you see Epstein and Barak frequently in contact with current intelligence officials. In fact, when they go to Nigeria, they get. Barack gets like, you know, has them like do up some intel for him on what's Jonathan Goodluck give me, give me a backgrounder on him. And that's not just Wikipedia. Like the backgrounders you're going to get from these intel guys are going to be much more interesting.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Because they have a lot more information.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, and I'm assuming that Ehud Baraka's former intelligence minister and prime minister has access to whatever he wants for the most part.

[Ryan Grim]

And then John Goodluck, just to bring it full circle for Breaking Point viewers, he was kind of the head of the Commonwealth Election Advisory Commission that went to oversee Pakistan's February 2024 election, which they found to be completely rigged and then buried their report until we got a copy of it and published it.

[Krystal Ball]

Crazy.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

This is such good reporting. Thanks Ryan, for breaking it down for us.

[Ryan Grim]

Interesting stuff indeed. For sure. All right. War with Iran, let's say. Or tomorrow.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Public Sponsor]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI, it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers, growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500 then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures [e-mail] disclosures let's talk about modern home shopping.

[Redfin Sponsor]

It's sort of become a fun side hobby, right? Scrolling listings at night, dreaming about kitchens you've never seen or backyards you haven't even stepped foot in. All from the comfort of pretty much anywhere. Redfin knows a lot of people like you want to own but are stuck in this browsing mode loop. That's where Redfin flips the script. With listings that update within minutes and tours you can book right from the Redfin app, you can see your dream home the moment it appears. Now, liking a listing is easy, but actually landing it? That's where Redfin comes in. Redfin has over 2200 agents with local expertise, and Redfin agents close twice as many deals as other agents. That means they want to help you win. Not just window shop. Redfin is built to help you go from just looking to wait. This could actually be home. So become the newest neighbor on the block. Visit redfin.com to start finding and start owning. That's redfin.com why have I asked my.

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[Krystal Ball]

Well, some news yesterday. When it comes to Iran negotiations, let's put this first element up on the screen. New York Post headline Iran US Agree on, quote Guiding principles of nuclear deal as Vance says, dismantling atomic program among red lined Ryan I thought we all kind of understood it was not a good idea to talk about red lines explicitly when you're making foreign policy at this point can come back to bite you. But that is where the admin landed yesterday.

[Ryan Grim]

Well, so Netanyahu keeps trying to add new red lines and you know, it makes the most cynical observers of Netanyahu's behavior appear just prescient over and over and over again. So when throughout the years, actually as Netanyahu was fighting against the nuclear deal first, Obama reached a nuclear deal with Iran back in 2015, which if we had left it in place, we could be moving towards just normalization if that's what we care about is Iran not having nuclear weapons and allowing inspectors in to make sure that that doesn't happen. People back then said this isn't even the thing that Netanyahu cares about. What he cares about is smashing Iran. Like he wants it as weak as possible and preferably if he can broken up into little failing statelets a la like Libya or Syria. So you've got the Volok region. You'd have insurgents going back and forth between Pakistan and Iran who, who are part of the like Balochistan liberation side. You have the Kurds up in the north of Iran who would, then, you know, they'd break that off. You got other, like just, and then, and then you can go in and kind of take the oil fields in the south and just kind of cordon that off. So that's like the long term goal and the total immiseration of tens of millions of, of Iranians. And so the idea that, okay, once we do the nuclear thing, the next thing they're going to say, well, we want the ballistic missiles. Can't have ballistic missiles. You can't have any missiles that go more than that can reach Israel. And then if we could get that, then we're going to move and say, oh, you can't support anybody else outside of, outside Iran. You can't support the Iraqi militias, you can't support Hezbollah, you can't support Hamas, you can't support pij, like whatever, you can't do any of that. And Iran has been very clear we're not agreeing to these things. Nuke, you want to talk nuclear program, let's talk nuclear program. So last time they were announcing that they were making all kinds of progress on the deal and then boom, they like kill the negotiators and kill the scientists and, and then launch the 12 Day War. And so now they're back and they're saying like, we've got the contours of a deal. But so Iran is saying that, which means that the US has agreed to keep it to nuclear talks. But Trump, if you. He told Larry Kudlow this is his quote. He says it's got to be a good deal. No nuclear weapons, no missiles, no this, no that. All the different things that you want. Now, if you're Iran, does that sound like somebody who's engaged in genuine negotiations? Are you taking the negotiations seriously? It's got to be a good deal. No nuclear weapons, no missiles, no this, no that. All the different things that you want. Who's the you to Larry Kudlow that Larry Kudlow wants? Yeah, that all the things you want. Know this. Know that. Like, Trump is not even trying to put on an act, that these talks are serious. Like, he has moved. Anything that can float or fly and launch a missile has been moved within striking range of Iran. Like the buildup outside there. I think we'll have a piece that drops that on this as well later today by Maaz, and I think by Jeremy, too. The buildup makes the previous armada, you know, look like a pinprick. And so I feel like Trump has put himself in a position where he doesn't have the strength to, like, back down from it. He's put so many missiles over there. Right. And so.

[Krystal Ball]

And he's such, like, such intense threats, saying, you know, if you start harming protesters, and then he backs down off of that one, then sends another aircraft carrier. He's talked very tough. So to your point, as he talked himself into a corner and.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. And what's interesting is that last time, I'm curious how he gets out of this or how Trump thinks he gets out of this. So the last time he did this, he stopped the war at 12 days. And people were glad because they were like, this could go on for a very, very long time. And the way he stopped it was by saying, we smashed the nuclear program to smithereens, set them back many years. Turns out leaked audio from Netanyahu just days earlier had said they were years away already. So he was correct. They're still years away. They were years away. Still years away. But they blew up a lot of things. And he watched it on his video game console, and so he's. And he's out there, these handsome fighters, you know, they did incredible job. We did Top Gun 3, and we're so proud of ourselves, and we're ending the war.

[Krystal Ball]

He put the jet in the White House. It's next to the Resolute desk. Like it has a model of it.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, he loves it. And so that's how he gets out of it. But I guess he could say he blew up every ballistic missile. Okay, they don't have ballistic missiles anymore. And then you could say, well, and the proxies are so weak that, like, Netanyahu needs to stop crying about them. So maybe that's the way out. But, yeah, how does Trump. So Trump's going to start. Let's say he starts the war very much looks like he's going to. Iran has said we are in a nothing left to lose situation. And so they fire as much as they possibly can. Now, the US has such firepower there that they may be able to just take out everything Iran has and be able to stop it before it lands. That's possible. Either way, they have said that they're going to launch strikes at American bases where there are American troops with the intent to kill hundreds of American troops to set up a deterrent. We also reported that there are hundreds of Afghan refugees still stuck at this base in Qatar because they, like, got stuck in this diplomatic limbo. We moved them out of Afghanistan, but we won't let them in the US So they're just like sitting ducks. That would be the worst outcome. Like that Iran just killed hundreds of Afghan refugees stuck at an American base. Okay, so Iran launches all of its missiles. Then, you know, Trump fires and blows up the nuclear plants again, hits the missiles. Like, how does he end? Right. Especially if there are American troops killed. Right. Like, how does Trump. How do you see Trump ending this one?

[Krystal Ball]

I have no idea. I mean, I think on the one hand, the quote that you read suggests a flippancy. I think you're right about that. But on the other hand, I wonder if it's because he feels like he dispatched Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff and actually can find some Gaza style historic agreement. Maybe it's only as good as the paper that it's written on, but he can say he did it. And that actually brings us to what you all were reporting at dropsite. So, yeah, Witkoff and Kushner were negotiating this in Geneva yesterday. And that's where Vice President Vance came out and said negotiations went well in some respects is what he told Fox News. But on the other, you know, President Trump has been clear. He has all these red lines. Let's just jump to B3 here. This is a job site exclusive that says Hamas says it will not unilaterally disarm as Trump and Netanyahu threaten a return to full scale war. Ryan, that's a report from Jeremy yesterday. And so it's the. What's the best way to Put this, that happening in parallel to the Iran talks is quite interesting, because I actually, I do think Trump to some degree thinks that he's sending Wyckoff and Kushner around with this mission of putting together grand goals that can be marketed as major wins for peace, world peace. And they're business friendly, and they're not like what anybody has ever done before. And so he just kind of, I don't know is the right way to say it. Trusts the process, like he trusts the process that Wyckoff and Kushner have or.

[Ryan Grim]

Don'T care about it, because he knows he's gonna do war.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, if it falls apart, then he's comfortable doing war. It's almost like it's a horse apiece. I don't know. It's really hard to know what he thinks about all of this, because if you could maybe even walk us through a little bit of what Jeremy is hearing and Jobsay is hearing from the Hamas side related to Gaza, how serious was any of that? I mean, we're learning in real time how serious the different points of the peace plan were. So that gives us, I think, some clues as to the authority that Kushner and Wyckoff have in negotiations with Iran, too.

[Ryan Grim]

Right. And this goes back to reality versus reality distortion. So the reality of the ceasefire was that Hamas very explicitly never agreed to disarm as part of the ceasefire. They agreed to cease fire.

[Krystal Ball]

Right.

[Ryan Grim]

That was it. And they were very explicit. If you want to talk about disarmament, Hamas is willing to participate in those talks in the context of a national conversation among all Palestinian factions toward a process of self determination in government. Which means as long as there is a Palestinian police force that is constituted, then Hamas is open to disarming. But we're not going to Hamas. Hamas is saying we're not going to just disarm and then allow the Israelis to come in and massacre us. They never agreed to that. And so there's. Everything they've agreed to, has led, was through phase one is now supposed to be leading into phase two, which is the reconstruction. Israel is saying we cannot move into phase two reconstruction until we have disarmed Hamas. So Israel couldn't win disarmament on the battlefield, they couldn't win it at the negotiating table. And so now they're just trying to state it as fact and then get the US Because Israel couldn't do it, get the US to execute on it. And from Trump's perspective, I think he does get like, well, wait a minute, hold on. You couldn't do it now. You want us to do it for you. But Trump seems to be willing to effectively just go along. And so they're saying, we're going to give Hamas 60 days. Now, the other problem for Israel here, just rhetorically and optically, Netanyahu is saying there's basically no kind of missile programs left. No, like none of those types of heavy munitions. And Hamas has said we are actually willing to agree to any limits that you want on rockets.

[Krystal Ball]

Sure. Disarming in that respect.

[Ryan Grim]

Right. What you would call, as Israel likes to call them offensive weapons, but they don't want to give up defensive weapons. Notice how like even in here in the U.S. even people like AOC are like, no, but Israel deserves defensive weapons. Even as she acknowledges they're carrying out a genocide, they're still entitled to defensive weapons. So what about the armed faction resisting the genocide? They're not entitled to defensive weapons. Like, somebody tried to explain the logical consistency there. So what Netanyahu says is that There are about 60,000 AK47s that are in circulation in the part of Gaza that Israel does not yet occupy and that he wants every single one of those out before he will allow any reconstruction. Hamas is saying, no, we don't trust you. We think that you will massacre us. You're carrying out a genocide. But from an outsider's perspective, you're like, wait a minute, aren't you like the most well armed military outside of the United States in world history? And you're crying to us about 60,000 AK47s and you're going to starve a civilian population and refuse reconstruction over AK47s? Like, how about you just stop doing the war? How about that? Like, they're agreeing to no missiles so we can put up B2. The board of peace is meeting tomorrow, this Trump's board of peace, and they're going to push this forward. And there's talk about getting this International stabilization Force, was it Indonesia is talking about getting closer to having troops. We're talking, we're like a year out or something from that. And so if you're Hamas, you have said, and all of the resistance factions have apparently agreed, like, we're not going to disarm until there is some type of mutually agreed upon Palestinian led police force. And like, unless you're like completely blinkered by propaganda, how, how is that remotely an objectionable position unless you're an abolish the police type. Maybe that's Netanyahu. Like, he's like, what are you, the police? This is just this carceral approach.

[Krystal Ball]

He's a criminal justice reform.

[Ryan Grim]

He's a hardcore. Kushner, right. Did the First Step act, maybe?

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, that's right.

[Ryan Grim]

He's influenced by Kushner.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, Netanyahu himself, he says Kushner's not.

[Ryan Grim]

All the way at abolished the police.

[Krystal Ball]

The unjust prosecution of Netanyahu himself.

[Ryan Grim]

That's true. He probably is feeling sympathy for the criminal justice reform movement because of his own.

[Krystal Ball]

He's been brought into the.

[Ryan Grim]

He has been. So, yeah. So Netanyahu has an abolished the police type, which respect. But most people are not like. Most people are like, no, you actually need a police force, especially if there's a genocidal army bearing down on you that is on a daily basis uttering genocidal statements and promising to annihilate you.

[Krystal Ball]

That sounds like the type of negotiating point that Trump administration, of the Trump camp would contra previous administrations. I don't know if compromise is the right word, but accept in the process of getting a deal.

[Ryan Grim]

He has accepted in the past.

[Krystal Ball]

I was going to ask. Yeah. What do we know about how that can go? Board of Peace is meeting tomorrow. They just left Geneva.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. Trump has said publicly and he gets it like, yeah, you need to have security. He doesn't want it to become like Iraq means a de padification, like Trump. Trump, Trump. Is this, in this interesting point in his life, I think, where he goes in and out of it. Like, he'll have moments of clarity and then moments where he's like, yeah, whatever, Netanyahu, do whatever you want. Right?

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, that's a. I mean, I feel like that's a pretty good summary of everything we just talked about. Moments of moments of clarity and the moments where he's like, Netanyahu, do whatever you want.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. So, yeah, we're, I think we're right now at a do whatever you want Netanyahu moment.

[Krystal Ball]

What a time to be alive.

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[Ryan Grim]

Electrician I found on Angie.com to bury my pet hamster Nibbles in our yard for me? Because I was so moved by how carefully he buried my electrical wires, I knew I could trust him to bury my sweet Nibbles after his untimely end.

[Krystal Ball]

Huh?

[Ryan Grim]

Nibbles gone too soon. May he scurry in peace. Hey, sorry about your pet, but I just wire stuff. Nibbles would have loved you like a brother.

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[Krystal Ball]

Speaking of Trump doing war, let's move on to another boat strike. We put C1 up on the screen. This is from Southcom. This is video Southcom released just yesterday. Less than 24 hours ago, late on February 16th, at the direction of Southcom commander General Francis O', Donovan, Joint Task Force Southern Spear conducted three lethal kinetic strikes on three vessels operated by designated terrorist organizations. This is apparently what you're looking at on your screen. Intelligence confirmed the vessels were transiting along known narco trafficking routes and were engaged in narco trafficking operations. Eleven male narco terrorists were killed during these actions. Four on the first vessel in the Eastern Pacific, four on the second vessel in the Eastern Pacific, and three on the third vessel in the Caribbean. No US Military forces were harmed.

[Ryan Grim]

Ryan, there was incredible line. Yeah, we carried out this attack from air conditioned rooms in Lake Florida.

[Krystal Ball]

Nobody was.

[Ryan Grim]

No US Military personnel were injured in the operations.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, and once again, they are. We are relying on their claims that the intelligence confirmed these were people, quote, engaged in narco trafficking operations, transiting along, quote, known narco trafficking routes. And I have to say, reading between the lines, them saying, one, the boats were transiting along known narco trafficking routes and two, were engaged in narco trafficking operations. It tells me that their intelligence is literally that the boats were on the routes. We don't know, though. That's just me reading between the lines. They don't tell us what they knew. They aren't putting anybody on trial. They're just blowing them up. Once again.

[Ryan Grim]

Right. And we wanted to cover this because the term normalized was abused in the first Trump term. But if you don't cover these, like, and you just kind of acknowledge that it's just normal that one government is sending drones into the sky and just blowing up boats like it is a crime against humanity. And so they've now hit at least 42 boats and killed at least 144 people. There are some lawsuits already, like, from, I think some Colombian and Venezuelan citizens or their loved ones of them for wrongful death. The Coast Guard, when they intercept boats, oftentimes they get it right. Something like a third of the time.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. Rand Paul has pointed this out.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. Something like a third of the time they get it wrong. And that's with binoculars. And they're closer. They're able to look. They're like, okay, we've been out here doing this a long time. That looks like a drug boat to us. And they stop it because you get stopped by the American Coast Guard. Like, you stop. Yeah, that's what happens. They board it, they search it. Oftentimes they find it. And then what you can do is you can then ask them, who paid you to do this? And that's how you do these drug enforcement operations, often with the Cubans in the past.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, and you can also take the alleged drugs off of the boat and process them. And Such.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. Process them up through your nose and sell them your drugs.

[Krystal Ball]

Oh, yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes.

[Krystal Ball]

The process can be many things.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes. Shockingly, there's a lot of shrinkage between the seizure and the trial oftentimes. But, you know, setting that aside, if the Coast Guard, which has been doing this for decades and can do it from the sea, is getting it wrong one out of three times, why do we think that Pete Hegseth doing it as a video game is gonna get it right 100% of the time? That is, setting aside the question I was gonna say whether if the person is carrying drugs, we are within our rights to execute them, that they are.

[Krystal Ball]

Engaged in an act of combat. Right, right. That's. The argument, is that they are engaged in a concerted government effort from Venezuela to our ally, now we're in charge of Venezuela. Yes. That they're engaged in a concerted. That's a great point, by the way. This is post regime change, post Maduro. I mean, it's not technically a regime change, but post Maduro, the argument is that they are engaged in an act of war by trafficking. Again, the reason that you arrest people and then you tell the public what you're hearing, the reason you do that is precisely so that you know where they're actually going. Are they going to Trinidad? Are they going to other places? Are these. Is this going to Europe? A lot of the cocaine from Venezuela goes to Europe, probably more than goes to the United States. So we have no idea, and I don't know how their intelligence tells them precisely, that this was narco trafficking coming to the United States by the government, organized by government actors, state actors, to commit war against the American people. That's all the burden that has to be met for this to make any sense. And to your point, that's why we're covering this? Yeah, that makes no sense.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, you make. You make a very good point. And so. And I think it's hard for people to, like, take seriously the argument that the US is making here to make these strikes, quote, unquote, legal. But if you do for a second, just to repeat the very important point that Emily is making there. The US's claim that these are legal, lethal strikes is rooted in the false claim. But let's accept the claim that Trend Aragua is a foreign terrorist organization that is run by Maduro, that is at war with the United States, and that all of the narco traffickers in the Pacific, which two of the strikes were in the Pacific. Like, why is Trend Aragua sending people.

[Krystal Ball]

Out to the Pacific, Eastern Pacific, Yeah. I don't know what that means.

[Ryan Grim]

Like, no, like, if they're Venezuelan, they're in the Caribbean, not the Pacific. But let's just pretend that all three of these ships. We're going to grant everything to the government's argument here. All three of these ships are Terande Aragua. There's no evidence that Terneu NICU is an international narco trafficking group. They're like thugs who, like, beat people up and extort people and like one of those gangs.

[Krystal Ball]

They almost certainly have some level of integration to the Venezuela government. Of course, almost certainly that is absolutely true. But whether they're being used as a military force by the Venezuelan government to put war.

[Ryan Grim]

Let's pretend, just for the sake of argument, that Maduro was in fact running Tren Nicaragua and that Trent Rag was running all of these drugs and that. So the argument from the US Was if we blow up these boats, that is depriving the Maduro regime, which is a narco terrorist regime that is at war with the United States, from that revenue. And that's what makes these legal strikes. As you may have noticed from following the news, Maduro is now in jail in the United States. Delsey Rodriguez is running Venezuela. Trump just yesterday said that Delsey Rodriguez is doing a tremendous job and that we are running Venezuela and that she is doing a tremendous job on our behalf of running Venezuela.

[Krystal Ball]

This is someone who was again organizing allegedly Trend Aragua to commit war against the United States government and that we are still striking people, allegedly.

[Ryan Grim]

Right. So she's doing a tremendous job. She's on our side. We, in fact, are running. If it's true that the Venezuelan government is still running Trend Nicaragua, then Trump is running it. Right. I mean, that. But according to, you know, Trump's logic, he has. Delsey is great. She's an ally, and Venezuela is not at war with the United States. So then your legal justification that you have put forward for these strikes has completely evaporated. It was. It never made any sense to begin with, to be clear. But now it has zero basis. Like, this is now. You're now just killing, at best, narco traffickers, at worst, innocent people, completely innocent people who are on the boats without a trial. So if they are narco traffickers at this point and the money is going back to some government, it's either going back to Ecuador, which is your ally, Naboa Colombia, who He doesn't like Petro, but, like, he doesn't claim that Columbia's at war with us or Venezuela which is our ally now, which we run or what? El Salvador Hunter. Like, there's. There's no one down there that we're saying is at war with us other than Cuba. And we're not saying that. That Cuba isn't behind this now. Don't. I was gonna give them an idea.

[Krystal Ball]

Planting, apparently.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, no. Anyway, we're still doing it. Total, like, utterly, completely, totally criminal. Even by the government's own attempted explanations. Like it. Your point is a good one. That, like, the world changed when they took Maduro and that. And we, we pulled out our rationale for these strikes and continue the strikes anyway because we do not care.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, we'll see if they. I mean, we'll see if they even bother to. I mean, they're posting the footage here. We'll see if they even bother to say, you know, what. What state actor. They all assumptions for the rest of the 41 other strikes since what, September would be that it was the Venezuelan. It was narco traffickers operating on behalf of the Venezuelan government on behalf of Maduro. This was happening to be a shot across the bow to Maduro to either squeeze him out or make a regime change operation seem justified. And now that that's happened, we will see if they even bother to say who they think these narco traffickers were committing an act of war on behalf of. Because so far it's nothing. So far it's just almost bragging by posting that video we played earlier of the strikes. So I'm curious if they respond to that. Let's put in a comment request with the State Department. Actually, that sounds good.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. Hey, what's. Or Defense Department, like you're doing this criminal activity. Why? Yeah, what's your justification?

[Krystal Ball]

Oh, yeah, Defense. That would make more sense. Well, I mean, well, it's Rubio like. Yeah, yeah. Well, because if it's Venezuela, I would love to know. If we think that Dulce Rodriguez is.

[Ryan Grim]

Organizing a war, then is Rubio the kingpin or.

[Krystal Ball]

I think Trump is the kingpin.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. Narco Rubio.

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[Krystal Ball]

Are you my dad now?

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[Krystal Ball]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.