← Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
2/2/26: Trump In The Epstein Files, Bill Gates & Elon Musk & MORE
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- [00:00]
Krystal Ball
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:02]
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- [01:06]
Saagar Enjeti
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- [01:42]
Tara Davis Woodhull
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- [01:45]
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- [01:48]
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As athletes, our lives are about having.
- [01:50]
Hunter Woodhull
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- [01:53]
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- [01:54]
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- [01:56]
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- [02:12]
Saagar Enjeti
Hey guys, Sagar and Kristal here.
- [02:14]
Krystal Ball
Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.
- [02:21]
Saagar Enjeti
This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.
- [02:27]
Krystal Ball
So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited, ad free, and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.
- [02:38]
Saagar Enjeti
We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breaking points.com. good morning, everybody. Happy Monday. We have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal?
- [02:50]
Krystal Ball
Indeed we do. We have a, I guess you call it a special edition. Today we are digging deep into the Epstein files. Everything we found that we thought was significant, we really sort of tried to include everything that we came across. Obviously, we're gonna start with the Trump connections. We've got various other politicians, including a lot of other administration officials who are in power right now, billionaires from Elon Musk, Peter Thiel, et cetera, intel connections, other foreign connections, media angle, and then just some of the general horror that is encapsulated in these things. Things that are so difficult to read you can scarcely wrap your mind around. So truly, this is record breaking in terms of the number of things that we're gonna try to get to in this show. But it is all going to be focused on the revelations in the Epstein files dump.
- [03:37]
Saagar Enjeti
That's right. It is the most elements that we've ever put together for an entire show. So we do, you know, we put a lot of work behind the scenes into this. I do want to just say for everybody, for our general YouTube audience, we're going to be breaking this up into multiple clips. However, we really do recommend listening to this completely in full. For that, you do need to be a Premium subscriber. So BreakingPoints.com if you're able to. It's just the best way to be able to watch something like this. And we'll be doing our AMA later. Our team, we spent hours and hours over the last 48, 72 hours with Ryan, Graham, Emily, Crystal and I, our entire team going through basically everything and curating to find the most newsworthy parts of the Epstein file. So thank you very much, those of you who can Support us@breakingpoints.com and then for our premium subscribers, our Spotify issue appears to have been fixed. If you're watching this on YouTube, please just go ahead and hit the subscribe button to our channel. If you're listening to this in a podcast, share an episode with a friend. This would be a great episode actually to share with somebody who is interested in learning in fully what is in the file. So let's go ahead and start with Donald Trump. Obviously the most newsworthy particular part of here, Donald Trump, his administration's handling this been a disaster really from day one, igniting some questions. Does Trump have anything to hide? Trump asked immediately after the release of the files what it says about him. Here's what he had to say on board Air Force One.
- [04:50]
Donald Trump (clip)
Well, they should be, because it looked like this guy Wolf was a writer, was conspiring with Epstein to do harm to me. And I didn't see it myself, but I was told by some very important people that not only does it absolve me, it's the opposite of what people were hoping, you know, the radical left, that Wolf was a third rate writer, was conspiring with Jeffrey Epstein to hurt me politically or otherwise. And that came through loud and clear. So we'll probably sue Wolf on that and maybe the emcee in the state, I guess, I don't know, but we're going to certainly sue them. Well, you may, I guess so because he was conspiring with Wolf to do harm to me politically. That's not a friend Trump talking there.
- [05:39]
Saagar Enjeti
About how it doesn't implicate him. However, there were some bad things there for Donald Trump here in the files. Let's go and put the first one up here on the screen. This one got quite a bit of attention. I'm gonna couch all of these as responsibly as I can. So here it says, FBI report citing a confidential human source released in the final batch of the Epstein files claims Trump has been compromised by Israel. I will note if we go to the next one, guys, please. Is that one of these sources? Chuck Johnson is a controversial figure. However, you know, he's previously been one who has been involved with these types of things. I will say I've known Chuck for many years and he does actually have quite a bit of connections. However, he's kind of an eccentric character. So you can take that of what you will for his own reputation. You can Google some of the other legal problems that he has right now. I do think it is important though, to note and to flag some of this stuff which is in the files. And I do also want to give an extraordinary amount of credit here, Crystal, to Ro Khanna and to Thomas Massie, who are the ones who are solely responsible for being able to get this information out because what we have learned here now so far is the full, vast amount of this conspiracy, the extent to which it touches not only Donald Trump, but literally the entire global elite, which is why we have to spend almost, you know, more, probably more than two hours today breaking all of it down. But with Donald Trump himself, this is one of the more extraordinary ones about being compromised, let's say, by Israel. Again, it is a allegation made by Chuck Johnson, to be very, very clear. However, you know, when we look in the totality of all of the other things here with Jeffrey Epstein and with so called compromise, I do think it's important, while I don't necessarily believe this particular one, the extent to which Epstein clearly was using his vast array of influence, power, et cetera, on behalf of multiple different foreign states, governments. And clearly this verifies everything that we've laid out from the beginning. It is an open, genuine question. His relationship not just with Trump, but with all the people around him, with all the people in power. And I just think it's important to flag that from the very beginning, what.
- [07:33]
Krystal Ball
The story says, I think starting here at the top. First of all, it's important to remember how we got here. Your right to credit Khanna Massie. Also shout out to Lauren Boebert and Nancy Mace, who under tremendous amount of pressure to back off that discharge petition. They signed onto it. That's how the files end up ultimately getting released. You had four Republicans sign on along with all of the Democrats in order to force this. Trump is backed into a corner. He signs this. I think it's important to keep in mind the, according to the administration officials, this is roughly 3 million files that were released. There are in total something like 6 million files. Again, we're taking their word for that. So even by their own estimates, this is still a fraction of what they are legally obligated to release. There are also many issues with the redactions and the lack of redactions. There are a bunch of victims who are identified here. Of course, we are not going to include any of that information. There are a bunch of failed redactions and then there is a bunch of stuff that is redacted that should not have been. And there should be a court process to play out where the DOJ has to justify why they redacted things that were not, were not authorized by this law. So that's important to keep in mind that what we're looking at here is a limited hangout, right? This is not everything. This is not the totality. But even within that you see a sketch of how power works. And it really is extraordinary. The level of connections, the amount of influence that he had on a variety of foreign governments truly is incredible when you think about just this administration with Trump, who was his bestie for years and years, and we'll dig more into that in just a second. But then a whole range of other donors and administration officials who are also directly implicated and had close friendly ties that they're all running away from now. I think it really gives you maybe the best picture we have ever seen of how global power actually operates. So I think that's really important. I do want to just to read to you guys what is in this one file. And then we're going to kind of rock and roll through a bunch of these elements because we do have a million of them. So we're not going to stop and pause and talk about all of them like we normally do. But what this confidential human source provided, this is what it says in this file. The following information. CHS worked as an assistant for Alan Dershowitz, taking notes while monitoring phone calls when the first Epstein plea deal was struck between 2005 and 2008. So this goes back to that original sweetheart deal. What happened there? That has always been a key question. Dershowitz was Epstein's attorney at the time. We know that was true. CHS believed Dershowitz was controlled by the Israelis, which was backed by Dershowitz's behavior. Sheldon Adelson was behind Dershowitz and Netanyahu. CHS thought it was odd that Dershowitz, who was always left leaning, then changed to back Trump. CHS stated this did not surprise them since Dershowitz was Dershowitz was always on the side of whatever the Israelis wanted, which included Trump. Sean Hannity was also backed by Sheldon Adelson. CHS was on the phone to take notes whenever Epstein and Dershowitz spoke on the phone. He stated the Mossad would always call after they got the phone off the phone with Epstein. CHS also saw his bills coming, going for Dershowitz. Notice there were never any bills presented to Dershowitz for Epstein or Maxwell, which CHS thought was odd. So that is the allegation that came from this particular source. Take that for what you will.
- [10:46]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, exactly. Important to note again, you know who the source was. Now let's continue though. There were all kinds of sketchy behavior when the immediate release put a 4, let's say for example, up here on the screen, multiple allegations there about Donald Trump. Specifically. You can read some of these Example for yourself. The DOJ actually killed the link to this before it was then taken down. And of course, these were extraordinary. This was part of an unverified dossier which complaints specifically made about Donald Trump that were collated by the Department of Justice. In some of these cases, for example, they said that this information was provided by somebody who had psychiatric problems. But nonetheless, we're gonna go and put it up here. Let's put A five, for example, next on the screen. This was another one. This was actually an interview with FBI agents. A survivor told agents that Ghislaine Maxwell, quote, presented her to Donald Trump saying that she was available, not a tip. For example, this was an FBI 302 interview with agents. Let's go ahead and go to a six. This was another one. Quote, a witness swore under perjury that Trump had, quote, threatened a young girl, she could disappear and then threaten to kill her entire family. This was in the data set nine of the Epstein files. This was another particular one from a Tiffany Doe. Again, these have not been verified, for example, they were submitted and they were part of the official release.
- [12:03]
Krystal Ball
This would be more significant just because the penalty of perjury than like the anonymous tip line stuff, just in terms of how you think about it.
- [12:10]
Saagar Enjeti
So we're just trying to couch everything just so everybody knows about in particular all of these. We are. This is not a claim of, you know, that any of this has been proven. It has been, however, been released by the government. Let's go and put the next one up here on the screen. They're saying Epstein, quote, Trump is likely to be asked questions soon about me. Supposedly said a girl that Donald had had sex with her at my house when she was underage. She said she has a witness. This was he asking, who is it? Kathy Rummler, who, by the way, again, former White House lawyer under Barack Obama and now actually a senior banking official who herself may actually really be in trouble, considering her entire here with Epstein. But he's going back and forth asking questions specifically about how to handle that. Let's continue, shall we? A nine. Can we put that one? Because a nine was important to me, for example, because this was just shows you like Trump's social life, for example, at the time says, I simply cannot believe this victory. This is immediately after Trump's victory. No one called it. We all thought she'd win. This was too Jeffrey Epstein. You must be happy, though. I remember flying back with Donald on his plane. The first weekend I went to visit you in Florida was the weekend he met Melania he kept coming outta the bedroom saying, wow, what a hot piece of ass nuts. Anyway, hope you're enjoying Saudi. So a lot going on there. Hope you're enjoying it. Saudi. Also talking about Trump and apparently the relationship that these mutual friends of theirs had had there in the past. Melania also makes an appearance. Let's go to the next one, shall we? This shows you. Dear G, how are you? Nice story about JE in New York magazine. This is the infamous, what is it, 2002 profile where Trump said something along the line of, if I recall, he was like, Jeffrey really enjoys his social life. He likes him young, something like that. You look great in the picture. I know you were very busy flying all over the world. How was Palm Beach? I cannot wait to go down. Give me a call when you are back in New York. Have a great time. Love, Melania. So you could see the extent of their own social life there back in the day.
- [14:10]
Krystal Ball
For what it's worth, Michael Wolf, journalist, controversial journalist, will say who did spend a lot of time with Jeffrey Epstein, like a lot of time with Jeffrey Epstein. He claims that Epstein is the one who introduced Melania to Trump and that the first time they had sex was on the Lolita Express. Believe Trump and Trump denied it and.
- [14:28]
Saagar Enjeti
Said at the beginning they said they're gonna sue him, they're threatening legal action. So to be clear and to confirm.
- [14:33]
Krystal Ball
Nevertheless interesting to see Melania here directly exchanging with Ghislaine Maxwell in a friendly and familiar capacity.
- [14:40]
Saagar Enjeti
Right. I mean, it just. What it does prove is what we do we already kind of knew, which is that these people knew each other. They were part of a social, you know, set down in Palm Beach. We had the of Trump down there, remember in the video, I believe, from NBC News, which had been released, we had the quote that Trump gave the Epstein profile back in 2002. But more importantly, I think what this does show is part of the problem for Donald Trump in the initial handling of a lot of these files, where nonetheless, at this point it does appear like he was trying to cover something up. Whether he had anything or not, I mean, at the very least you can just say, yeah, they knew each other. They knew each other quite well. And that alone contrasts with much of the previous reporting that there had been for decades between Trump and his relationship. We'd had previously, they said Trump kicked Epstein out of Mar A Lago for being a creep. Then the reporting had come out, they even asked Trump about it and he was like, well, apparently it's cause you stole a girl from the massage staff, the spa, I think is something that he said. So none of it looks good for him. And it was something which his administration, again, this entire thing, in many ways is a problem of his own making because him and many of the people around him, I guess really the people around him became and started talking quite a bit about the Epstein issue in the lead up to the election. It became like an elites versus non elites thing. Garnered a lot of interest from, you know, a lot, a lot across the Internet. And there was a belief they were going to come in, they were going to do something about it. They have the infamous, you know, Epstein files meeting at the White House with all of the influencers, where they hand out the binders. Then immediately afterwards, people are all very.
- [16:15]
Krystal Ball
Quiet now, by the way, right?
- [16:16]
Saagar Enjeti
Kash Patel goes on Joe Rogan and says, there's nothing there. He killed himself. If I had anything, don't you think I would tell you? And it's like, well, now we know you did have actually quite a bit and you didn't tell us. By the way, I actually searched a little bit in the communications ahead of Patel's appearance on Rogan. It's flagged inside of the Epstein files and actually you can see their correspondence and they even say Epstein issue likely to be raised. So that was a planned answer by Kash Patel. It wasn't spontaneous. You can see clearly they knew that Epstein was gonna be brought up in that meeting. And that was a plan, planned communication, his disastrous moment, which is pretty crazy. To give some background, again, which I saw it late last night, so I wasn't able to include it here, but I was like, wow. So that's what they had written down going into that meeting. And then of course you have Dan Bongino and others are allegedly upset about it. You know, the handling of the Epstein files. Has since rejoined his podcast. Haven't heard much about yet about the Epstein files released, but. But you can see very clearly that then the issue gets set on fire, it becomes one of national interest, and it then leads to this Ro Khanna and Thomas Massie legislation. Again, you gotta really, really give credit to them because we wouldn't have any of this if it were not for those two. And I just think it's so, so important to give credit where it is due. So thank you to those two politicians for being able to get this all out there.
- [17:40]
Krystal Ball
One last thing on that, too, just in terms of Trump, Trump's behavior and how he got to this point. I mean, going back to the first administration, when he got asked about Ghislaine Maxwell. I wish her well. Right. Very strange. Very strange response. Now let's talk about Ghislaine Maxwell, guys. She's still alive and kicking. She's still out there and could tell her side of whatever happened here. She could expose whatever needs to be exposed. But guess what, she has been treated in an extraordinary manner. She has been moved to Club Fed. She is the warden there is complaining that he is being treated as her bitch, that he's basically having to fetch her and do for her whatever it is that she wants. She's been given extraordinary privileges, including having a puppy there to play with and to train access to electronic communications. None of this is normal, guys. None of this is normal. So when you couple that with Trump's extreme resistance to releasing any of this, in spite of the fact that it was very a major focus of his base, again, he never really wanted to bring this up affirmatively himself, but he did in a number of instances. When press say, yes, I guess I will release those files, he typically would couch it. And like what I'm worried about those who are innocent getting implicated. And so I think it's worth keeping in mind the way his behavior plays into all of this. And this is a man who is not known for having a lot of shame. So it's particularly noteworthy coming from him. The last thing I'll say to bolster your point there, Sagr and Dave Smith was making this point online. You'll remember Dan Bongino and Cash Patel told us, we know for a fact, we have looked at the files and we know for a fact that Epstein killed himself. Case closed. It's exactly what the government said. Everyone needs to move on. Well, where is that evidence here?
- [19:29]
Saagar Enjeti
I don't know.
- [19:29]
Krystal Ball
I don't see where's that proof. If we're getting everything there is to get, why have we not been, you know, why have we not come to this conclusive, definitive place that Kash Patel and Dan Bongino came to allegedly after reviewing these files and in fact, we'll get to later in the show some of the indications around his death and some of the way he was thinking and some of the things that were going on at the time that helps to provide additional context around however he was unalived.
- [20:02]
Saagar Enjeti
That's right. All right, let's get to politicians, shall we?
- [20:06]
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- [21:07]
Tara Davis Woodhull
This is US Olympic gold medalist Tara.
- [21:09]
Hunter Woodhull
Davis Woodhull and I'm US Paralympic gold medalist Hunter Woodhull.
- [21:12]
Tara Davis Woodhull
As athletes, our lives are about having.
- [21:14]
Hunter Woodhull
A clear path and a team that you can absolutely trust.
- [21:17]
Tara Davis Woodhull
So when it came to getting the.
- [21:18]
Hunter Woodhull
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Tara Davis Woodhull
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- [22:39]
Krystal Ball
All right, so let's turn to the variety of public officials and politicians whose names also came up in this latest release. Chief among them is Howard Lutnick, who is, you know, obviously very significant figure in the Trump administration. He actually lived next door to that infamous mansion that Epstein owned, was sort of gifted it by Les Wexner in the Upper east side of Manhattan. He had previously been asked about his connections with Jeffrey Epstein. Let's go ahead and take a listen to what he said at the time.
- [23:11]
Howard Lutnick
He opens the doors and there's a massage table in the middle of the room and candles all around and stuff. So I ask very insightful, cutting questions. I say to him, massage table in the middle of your house. How often you have a massage? And he says, every day. And then he like, gets like weirdly close to me.
- [23:36]
Hunter Woodhull
Oh.
- [23:36]
Howard Lutnick
And he says, and the right kind of massage. Now my wife is standing here. So she looks at me and I look at her and we say, I'm sorry, we have to go. And we left. And in the six or eight steps it takes to get from his house to my house, my wife and I decided that I will never be in the room with that disgusting person ever again. So I was never in the room with him socially for business or even philanthropy. If that guy was there, I wasn't going because he's gross. And so I look back at it as a gift. Yes, he gave me a gift.
- [24:29]
Krystal Ball
Yes.
- [24:29]
Saagar Enjeti
Of a voice. So.
- [24:32]
Howard Lutnick
So yeah, that's my story. A one and absolutely done.
- [24:38]
Krystal Ball
So that's very interesting in light of new revelations coming out in these files. So just to be clear, he is claiming that he and his wife cut off contact with Jeffrey Epstein in 2005. Around 2005, because they were so disgusted after they had gone to his house and he'd behaved in this creepy manner. Let's go and put this up on the screen. Here's an email that is pretty, pretty relevant. So it says. This new file released appears to show Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick discussing visiting Epstein's island in 2012. 2012. Lutnick previously claimed he cut off ties around 2005 after being revolted by him. I'll read you this. Hi, Matthew and Candace. Might you be able to give Blank a few more details regarding lunch this Sunday? Do you know if it will just be Howard being Howard Lutnick and his wife? Any kids coming along? Will they arrive? Je's island via their boat and around what time is good for them. If you could pass along when you know that would be great. RCC'd here. Thanks, Leslie. So there you go. Some indications that there were hangouts post his revulsion from that alleged encounter. Sager, very interesting.
- [25:44]
Saagar Enjeti
The reporter got him on the phone, said he could not comment about the visit because he had not seen the documents. He said, quote, I spent zero time with him. And then he hung up on the reporter. Interesting.
- [25:52]
Krystal Ball
In case you're wondering, so lost amid this, we can put the next one up on the screen. Trump has announced too he is going to name his name next. Fed Chair nominee obviously has to be confirmed by the Senate Fed Chair. Incredibly, as you guys know, one of the most powerful actually people in the country, if not the world. Kevin Warsh is the name of that individual. And here he is on an Epstein guest list is what this is. And they're talking about on this in this email they're talking about how many people are going to be here tomorrow. Here's the list. And then you know, goes through all of these people and some various contact information or connection to them. And so there you see Kevin Warsh. How sneer. Isle de France.
- [26:35]
Saagar Enjeti
This is St. Barth's Christmas 2010. I mean, who amongst us has not been at St. Barth's Christmas party hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein, right? Even back in 2010, this is what we were saying earlier. Like this is the global elite. These people all hang out in the same places, they all know each other, they all have business connections. Nobody appears to have any qualms. I mean, I've said it before. Am I just the only guy who googles people before you go to their house? Like, is that not a thing?
- [27:00]
Krystal Ball
They don't care.
- [27:01]
Saagar Enjeti
I mean, do they just not care? Like, there's literally no universe where I'm gonna go in somebody's house as convicted sex. Well, there's zero.
- [27:07]
Krystal Ball
There's a bunch of these emails where, and I don't remember exactly from who, but there's a bunch of these emails where people are messaging him, like giving him advice about how to handle his bad PR from his sex offender conviction. Actually, we're gonna get to one of them. Richard Branson was one of the people who was saying like here's how to handle it, blah, blah, blah. So they all knew it wasn't a secret. I mean maybe some of them were gullible enough to believe because ultimately what he was charged with was like sex with one. What they described a 17 and a half year old. Well, they selectively picked the girl that was closest to being of age. We know. I mean one of the things that we got in here was the original indictment that had all of the allegations from girls as young as what was the youngest? 14.
- [27:48]
Saagar Enjeti
14.
- [27:48]
Krystal Ball
So. And it was, you know, a dozen different girls who had made these allegations. And then you get Dershowitz gets in there and they get their sweetheart deal and next thing you know, he's able to go forward with this lie of like, oh, I just screwed up this one time with this girl. She was almost of age. I had no idea. And so maybe some of them bought that, but I think more to the point, they didn't care cuz he was in the club. I mean that's what you really come away with because a bunch of these guys are frankly like at least white collar criminals. And so, you know, criminality is nothing that they are nothing they're stranger to. And the other thing you really get a sense from, and I think think comes out really clearly in the birthday book is like they knew what he was doing. Whether they were directly participating or not, they knew what was going on. I mean it comes out in Trump's quota. He loves women maybe even more than me and maybe even younger. Right. I mean there were indications that the whole club knew what was going on here. Another person who was in here a lot is former top Trump advisor, still very influential in MAGA world, Steve Bannon. Bannon interviewed Epstein over hours and hours. And one of the more striking revelations here was this roughly two hour compilation of interview footage. Steve Bannon with Jeffrey Epstein. I confess I haven't had time to go through the whole two hour. I don't know if you have either. But here was an interesting clip from it where Bannon asked Epstein directly whether he thinks he is the devil incarnate. Let's take a listen.
- [29:19]
Saagar Enjeti
What are you? Class 3 sexual predator, tier 1. Your was tier? Tier ones. The highest and worst? No, the lowest. Do you think you're the devil himself? No, but I do have a good mirror. It's a serious question. Do you think you're the devil himself? I don't know. Why would you say that? Because you have all the attributes, you're incredibly smart. You remember the devil is somebody to devil. Brilliant. You read Milton's Paradise Lost? No. The devil scares me.
- [29:49]
Krystal Ball
And Bannon, very creepy moment. And Bannon is interesting in all of this because especially in the first Trump administration and to this day, I mean he's very connected. Right. And so he's exchanging all of this back and forth with Epstein about a variety of policy topics. And so Epstein has this direct conduit. Even if you believe that he's completely cut off ties, Trump has completely cut off ties with him, which I think is plausible. We don't see any direct communications between them certainly. But he has this direct and influential conduit to the Trump administration throughout the whole first administration. Then he ends up dead. To indicate that actually Emily did a lot of work, I think more than anyone digging into the Bannon Epstein conversations and text messages. Let's put this next piece up on the screen just to demonstrate what I was talking about. Remember that John Bolton was part of the first Trump administration. She says, Hell of a December 2018 exchange here between Bannon and Epstein. Epstein says he's getting John Bolton on board with the idea that Qatar is the linchpin in the Middle East. Bannon says while he got Bolton his NSA job, quote, he will not cross Sheldon Adelson. So I'll just read this exchange. You've got Bannon or sorry, you've got Epstein saying you can explain to your boys that the linchpin in the Middle east is Qatar blockade lifted. They can help on many fronts. Many. Steve Bannon says I'm heading to AD tomorrow. Then Epstein says, I think I'm getting Bolton on board. At least he's an adult. Bannon Bolton only doing what Sheldon Adelson tells him to do. I got John the job. But he will not cross Sheldon Epstein. I'm aware Bannon key is mbz. Get him get actionable deal. Epstein and the young brother wed. I don't know what that means. Everyone reaching out for economic ideas. I guess my press is not translated into Russian, French or Arabic. Bragging about, you know, the global connections that he could continues to have.
- [31:40]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, and especially that part about Bolton on board with the idea that Qatar is a linchpin. Bannon saying he got Bolton his NSA job. He will not cross Sheldon. Sheldon Adelson, the influential pro Israeli billionaire.
- [31:52]
Krystal Ball
Sheldon comes up a lot in this files by the way.
- [31:55]
Saagar Enjeti
His wife Miriam Adelson, who some of you may be familiar with. Go to the next one. By the way, this is a great one. This text messages between Epstein Bannon goes all roads lead to Beijing. Epstein jokes or Tel Aviv winky face. Maybe it's not a joke, is it? But yeah, this is what they say behind the scenes. Let's continue. RFK Jr. Making his appearance here. This was to Jeffrey Epstein from Ghislaine Maxwell to Jeffrey Epstein Love that. Didn't we go fossil hunting with him and Bobby Kennedy in North Dakota? Question mark. This was about dinosaur and fossil hunting on a ranch previously and joke reminiscing about some of the previous times they'd spent. Remember, you know, RFK Jr. By his own admission had been on the Epstein and talked a little bit about it. I think I even asked him about it.
- [32:43]
Krystal Ball
He gave the craziest answer. It wasn't on our show that he gave the answer. He was like, yeah, I hung out with all kinds of things. Then proceeds to list like a. Murderers are always like Mike Tyson, Bill Cosby, Harvey Weinstein. I was like, elbow yourself here. But okay, true. Yeah, true, right. So and there were, I think some other mentions of RFK Jr in there too. Just, you know, exhibiting. There was some sort of relationship there and they had spent some time together which again, I mean he has acknowledged it openly. Here's another one that is newly significant. So here's a little photo of Brett Ratner who is the director of the Melania movie. And so here's a photo of him with a, we'll just say a girl of indeterminate age. This person says teenage girl. We don't have a way to know that specifically. But then here he is at the Melania movie premiere. So, you know, I think a lot of people will look at this and feel like, like it's not an accident that you have so many people from the Epstein class who are continue to be in powerful positions because that is the way this whole thing works. And for Trump, who is himself deeply implicated here, you know, he would be in a position to know some of who would also be swimming in these same circles. And Trump does like to have, you know, power over people, to have things that he can wield against them. So I don't think it's crazy to put those things things together.
- [34:06]
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- [36:39]
Krystal Ball
We got a little Bill Clinton. Wasn't just the Republicans of course. We've got Bill Clinton here looking very just some wild photos looking very casual. Is this on a plane? Is that what this is like a private jet?
- [36:51]
Saagar Enjeti
It was some birthday party. They called it something. Morocco King Wedding was the title in the footage.
- [37:00]
Krystal Ball
So yeah, that's well and here's the thing is Joe Biden is not in the files whatsoever. And I mean, Joe Biden is comparatively compared to Trump and Lutnick and these other characters and Bill Clinton at this point, he's not a wealthy guy, actually. And so it doesn't shock me in any way that he actually isn't in the files. And so then one of the things that Trump defenders with regards to Epstein would always say, remember being on Piers Morgan's show? And he said this to me, he was like, well, don't you think that if they had dirt on Trump, they would have released it? Like the Biden administration, they wanted to defeat him.
- [37:33]
Saagar Enjeti
Sure.
- [37:34]
Krystal Ball
And I think what is very clear is that Biden had two thirds of his brain gone the time he got into office. So I don't even know if he knew what was in there or was making these decisions or whatever. But this is where the deep state does come into play. Like a lot of the, you know, there were characters that were implicated. This was really not a partisan.
- [37:52]
Saagar Enjeti
Well, don't forget Biden's CIA director met with Jeffrey Epstein multiple times. The CIA director under, I mean, we had Kathy Rimmeler, the White House Obama council who had met with, I mean, there was. Beats Larry, she's a friend of the Biden administration.
- [38:06]
Krystal Ball
Oh, Larry Summers, very influential.
- [38:08]
Saagar Enjeti
Don't keep going. Steven Pink. You know, all of these people who are like left liberal, centrist types. David Brooks, remember, you know, I mean, you've got these, all of these folks who were also in the five, they had a lot to lose. So that's exactly the important point is, okay, you know, Biden not in there. Hillary was there. You know, Bill Clinton is in a lot of this stuff. Bill Richardson, who, you know, the former New Mexico, I think, didn't he run for president in 08?
- [38:30]
Krystal Ball
So like he did.
- [38:31]
Saagar Enjeti
It's not like these folks were not in any way deeply connected. So, yes, it's not just about personality. It is a major deep state question.
- [38:39]
Krystal Ball
But I really want people to sit with and put B12 up on the screen because this is relevant too. We've got a little. I've got dinner with Schumer. Exactly. Presumably Chuck Schumer. I have dinner with Schumer tonight. Jeffrey Epstein. They're emailing to Jess Staley, who lost his job over. Yeah, and it's going to come up later in this as well. But in any case, high level financier who was very important to Jeffrey Epstein, keeping his banking relationships, et cetera, etc. In any case, I Think people need to really, on the Democratic side, really need to understand that the Biden administration, they did have everything they needed to put out about Trump. I mean, there's no guarantees that would have kept him from making a comeback. But if they were really so committed to keeping him out of the White House again, this stuff could have been surfaced. And we're not talking about anonymous tips. Were these witnesses who had come forward under penalty of perjury and alleged heinous wrongdoing, were they ever interviewed? Was that ever explored? Why wasn't any of this brought to light? And so I think it's very clear that they were more committed to protecting the Epstein class and these, you know, this granderthis broader power structure than they were defeating Donald Trump. And so that's something that, you know, people really need to take away from these revelations. And what we see here, some of the wilder, some of the wilder pieces here put B10 up on the screen. So obviously the Peto island that Jeffrey Epstein owned was technically part of the Virgin Islands. And so we've got some details here about the way that he was buying off the politicians here. This is Lee Fong pulled this one. Just released DOJ doc shows informant claimed that Epstein used a dark money group to wire $380,000 to the 2018 campaign of Albert Bryan, now the sitting Governor of the Virgin Islands. Bryan is the governor who fired the local Attorney General leading Epstein related investigation. That is something that we covered pretty extensively at the time.
- [40:39]
Saagar Enjeti
Yes, that's right.
- [40:40]
Krystal Ball
Back in the rising days.
- [40:41]
Saagar Enjeti
Super important. It was completely ended in fact actually in this DOJ release, if anybody's interested, you can go and read the original suit by the US Virgin Islands against JP Morgan. I'm halfway through it so far, but some of this stuff is very important. But the point also is everyone likes folks on Trump and Clinton. I get it, they're presidents. But it's like the lower level stuff, which is also equally important. Not just Schumer, Senate Majority Leader, but yes, the U.S. virgin Islands, like basically controlling this. At one point in the emails that Ryan and I were going through, I found a script that Epstein had written that Clinton was supposed to deliver like as a campaign ad for the US Virgin Islands. I could never confirm if it was ever delivered or not. It was a radio spot back in the mid.
- [41:21]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, I never could.
- [41:22]
Saagar Enjeti
I couldn't find whether it is, but I was like, oh wow. So like this guy is like trying to get Clinton to get intervene in the US Virgin Islands. Like obviously he needs a lot of jurisdictional help here to keep the authorities, let's say, off of his back. He's bringing a lot of money in here, Making it a little bit of a party island. There's also Stacy Plaskett. Let's go. B11, please. Another important one. Remember that we released previously that footage of Stacy plaskett actually texting him while she was on in congress, like, at a hearing Again, Lee flags this one. She went to the Epstein island in 2014, previously worked for the fixer in the virgin island, who accompanied her to the island. Quote, I believe Plaskett is the only sitting member of congress to visit the island so far and also just happens to be the only sitting member of congress of where the island was. This is why this stuff is so important. And so I think, you know, to your point that we're trying to put together is. Yeah, you know, look, right now the republicans are in power, so obviously, like, that's a story. But the story about the Epstein class is one of a nexus of power and of influence. We talked about Bill burns, Kathy Martin, Reid Hoffman. We're about to talk about in the billionaire, you know, literally the single largest donor to the democratic party Back in the Kamala Harris campaign. Right. So these people, like, when you and.
- [42:32]
Krystal Ball
I think this is where, you know, Biden, paypal, mafia.
- [42:35]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
- [42:35]
Krystal Ball
Deeply, deeply implicated.
- [42:37]
Saagar Enjeti
But, you know, you can see for all of these people, by the way, the tisch. You know, we're gonna talk about that too. Like, a lot of these people are democrats are connected, you know, right now to the New York city power elite. Like, you can't. Whenever you're sitting atop that, somebody like Biden and you have this, like, nexus underneath you of the podestas and the, you know, the clintons and everybody else who are all part of it, even if you yourself are not implicated, it can seriously have a deep rupture, especially, you know, in the deep state. And then beyond that, there's the Israel angle, which we'll talk about with intel. But I mean that beyond more than anything, the intelligence. If you are one of these people now trying to claim that he's not connected to intelligence. Like, I don't. You're like, you are ignoring this blatant evidence in front of you.
- [43:21]
Krystal Ball
And there's some really interesting stuff we're going to get to there.
- [43:24]
Saagar Enjeti
Nothing. You cannot deny it. Like, it's not. Especially if you combine it with all the totality of everything that we had going forward. Like, we basically have everything that we possibly need. I mean, more than we have on like Lee Harvey Oswald, to be honest, you know, at this point. So that's I just ask everybody to keep that in mind whenever we're going through this.
- [43:45]
Krystal Ball
Yes. All that being said, I will say though, Trump is not only the President of the United States right now, he was particularly close with Epstein for years in New York and down in Palm Beach. And so I think he or someone like something closely affiliated with him like Mar a Lago or whatever were mentioned more than 35,000 times in this release. He himself was named. I think it was like 5,000 times just in this release. So I mean, of everybody who's implicated, he is at another level in terms of the level of connectivity that he had directly to Epstein and Maxwell and this whole disgusting, depraved world.
- [44:29]
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- [47:02]
Krystal Ball
Another person who was quite a focus of this release is Elon Musk. Now Elon is an interesting character, isn't he? Richest man on the planet. You'll recall when he was having a falling out with Charlie Trump, he put out on Twitter X whatever he was like, Trump is in the Epstein files. That's not why they're being released. And I guess he would be somewhat in a position to know because it turns out he is also in the Epstein files. Now he had claimed that there's that infamous photo of him and Ghislaine Maxwell and he claimed she had photobombed him. And so this was not his fault that they're in this picture together. It was just happenstance. They happened to be same place, same time. Bad luck for him. He had also claimed that he had been invited to the island but he refused on principle. In all caps, he refused to go. Well, let's go ahead and take a look at some of the email exchanges here between Elon and Jeffrey Epstein and see if they back up his accounting here. So Elon Musk, who claims to have refused Epstein's invite to the island, wrote in an email to Epstein released by doj, do you have any parties planned? I've been working at the edge of sanity this year and so once my kids head home after Christmas, I really want to hit the party scene in St. Barts or elsewhere and let loose. The invitation is much appreciated, but a peaceful island experience is the Opposite of what I'm looking for. I want you to understand something. This email asking about party experience, you know, to let loose and do not want a peaceful island experience. This was sent at 6am on Christmas morning. Morning. Okay. The. The concept of emailing Jeffrey Epstein in this manner on Christmas morning while your kids are there is crazy. And Epstein replies, understood. I will see you on St. Bart. The ratio on my island might make Tallulah uncomfortable. And that was Elon's wife at the time. This was sent in 2012. So little bit of a different picture painted there. Let's put the next one one up on the screen. Here's another Elon Musk exchange here. This is from 2013. So again, this is years after we know he's convicted, you know, sex criminal. So all is out about him. And you got a whole exchange back and forth here about when you're going to be there. Any day, first through the eighth. Play it by ear if you want. There's always space for you. Epstein says. Elon says, okay, probably the first. Then Epstein says, the second or the third would be perfect. I'll come and get you. Musk says, I need to fly back to LA on the night of the second. And then it just cuts off. And then Epstein says, I actually could fly back early on the third. Or I think that's Elon. We will be in St. Barts. When should we head to your island? On the second. So hold back and forth about. Here's the time. Always room for you. I'll accommodate whatever your schedule is, et cetera. Let's go ahead and put the next one up on the screen. This one is very just. I mean, this is the most Elon thing I've ever seen in my life, I think. So. Epstein writes him and says, any plans for New York? The opening of the General assembly of the UN has many interesting people coming to the house. Elon replies, I run and lead product design engineering for two complicated companies. Moreover, SpaceX is about to launch what is arguably the most advanced rocket in history. Flying to New York to see UN diplomats do nothing would be an unwise use of time. To which Jeffrey Epstein replies, do you think I am retarded? Just kidding. There is NO1 over 25 and all very cute. So Elon's autism here blocking him off the charts from being able to see. Like, dude, I'm not inviting you to New York for some fricking diplomatic meeting at the un. This is going to be a party with a bunch of young girls and, you know, to get in fairness to Elon, we don't see any response here. So I don't know if he partook in this particular argument.
- [50:55]
Saagar Enjeti
Elon's reply has been that he was well aware that many of the emails and his correspondence could be misconstrued and be used by his detractors. So that is all that he has said now so far, used by detractors to smear him. I had very little correspondence with Epstein. I declined repeated invitations to go to his island, is what he said. So, well, not exactly 100% clear.
- [51:17]
Krystal Ball
Well, we got one more here for Mr. Musk. Let's put C4 up on the screen. So Elon had sworn that Epstein had never torn SpaceX, because that was an allegation that had come up before. Well, here we are. Here is Epstein saying, thanks for the tour. You would have had fun at Christmas. And Elon replies, I see. So in 2020, Elon said, to the best of our knowledge, Epstein never toured SpaceX. Don't know where that comes from. And here is Epstein seemingly, seemingly confirming that he did actually enjoy the tour of SpaceX that he had back in this is 2013. So again, years after many horrible things were known about him.
- [51:57]
Saagar Enjeti
Let's do the next one because this one is sick, shall we?
- [52:00]
Krystal Ball
Okay, so C5. This is a Bill Gates one. All right, so this is really something, Epstein, apparently. What's going on here? This is an email from Epstein to Epstein where he appears to be memorializing a fight in the words of Robbie Starbuck, that he had with Bill Gates. In it, he says Bill Gates got STDs from Russian women and doesn't specifically say hookers, and then asked Jeffrey for antibiotics that Bill could secretly give to his wife, Melinda, without her noticing. I'll read a bit of this. It's very long. But in any case, he does talk about this alleged situation involving Russians and that he, Gates, he claims, came to him and asked for antibiotics. He says, to add insult to the injury, you then implore me to please delete the emails regarding your std, your request that I provide you antibiotics that you can surreptitiously give to Melinda, and the description of your penis. You also made it clear to me that I am not to refer to blank, as that is another topic that must remain between the two of us. Okay. In return for all of these requests, which I would have done without a second thought, I am not to attend meetings with Melinda. I should continue to provide you the same level of service and dedication. I have done so diligently until you are ready to discard me and our friendship. Okay. So not only is the. And we've talked about Bill Gates before, it is known he had a friendship with Jeffrey Epstein. Melinda Gates has come forward and said, yes, this is part of what ended our marriage. Because I thought this man was disgusting from the moment that I met him. I told my then husband that he really should not be spending time with this individual at all. He persisted nevertheless. And so you know that I don't. She says that's not the whole reason that the marriage is over. But yes, that was a part of the reason. The other thing that's interesting about this, outside of the like disturbing, salacious part and the whole idea of like slipping your wife antibiotics because you got some STD from whoever. The other part though is you can see the level of controlling and manipulative behavior. I mean, this is directly blackmail. That's what this is.
- [54:07]
Saagar Enjeti
I want to explain that.
- [54:07]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, go ahead.
- [54:08]
Saagar Enjeti
So having read so many of his emails, not just in the files, but remember in the hacked emails that Ryan and I had access to, he memorialized stuff to himself all the time. He was constantly sending himself drafts and other things with not always something extraordinary as this. But Epstein was well within the practice. He would often have drafts of statements and other things that he was sending to himself. By the way, Bill Gates has said, quote, these claims are absolutely absurd and completely false. The only thing that these documents demonstrate is Epstein's frustration that he did not have an ongoing relationship with Gates and the lengths he would go to entrap and to defame. But at the very least, what we know previously is that their relationship centered around donor advised funds with the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation and also Bill's quest to try and win the Nobel Peace Prize, which is something he desperately wanted. This all traces back like more than a decade. But I think the important part is if you look at the email, you can see very clearly, you know, whether it's true or not. He was obviously trying to blackmail him. That was, you know, like beyond what was said. And you can see like, look, we don't know, but we previously. Like you said, the statements from Melinda Gates or reports from Melinda Gates team have been about Gates's like, affairs previously, like while they were married. But it did seem pretty extraordinary for them to have their marriage blown up in particular over this Epstein thing. At least that's what it looked like at the time. You can only speculate. But reading and looking at this, this is obviously in my opinion, the most overt one of an actual relationship, Some of the salacious, tawdry stuff that we allegedly had gotten up to. And then when you withdraw your support from me, me, I'm gonna lash out. Now, was this email memo or whatever ever sent? Can't see, we don't know. It was never.
- [55:49]
Krystal Ball
And what's accurate? I mean that's also. This is Jeffrey Epstein. To Jeffrey Epstein, this is just his word to himself of his version of what he understands to have happened. So I can't.
- [55:59]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, of course. But I can just say he did draft himself these types of emails all the time, which he would often then use and forward to his legal team. Like when I read his correspondence, he would draft statements and questions and thoughts and concerns. It was always stream of consciousness exactly like this. And then you would forward it to somebody else. So I know based on his own record, having read tens of thousands of the guys emails, that this does fit a pattern of the way that he would operate for stuff that he had previously said.
- [56:24]
Krystal Ball
Well, and I mean you think about it because we always were like, dude, you are like, your wife doesn't want you to be around this man and you just can't stay away. Like what is going on with that? And I think this gives you some, some insight because when he did try to pull away and you know, and there was some financial relationship there, Epstein threw. Looks like Epstein threw a whole fit and was like, I'm gonna blow up your spot. Like I'm gonna tell all of your dirtiest secrets that I know. And here's one of them. And there's one that's redacted here that we can't even tell what it is. And that's part of how he would keep people in. I mean he was a master manipulator, there's no doubt about it. And so to the question of, you know, was he like compiling blackmail on various powerful people, I think comes across pretty clearly in this particular email. Let's go and talk about Reid Hoffman, member of the PayPal mafia alongside Elon Musk. And he, you know, large, very large donor, one of the largest donors to the Democratic Party. We've got. Let's put C7 or sorry, C6 up on the screen here. So Hoffman funds this MIT Media Lab and this reporter, she's like a right wing reporter. But in any case, they hosted a conference called Forbidden Research. And at that conference they had proposed child sized sex robots. And these emails confirm that they had considered inviting Jeffrey Epstein to this Forbidden Research conference. You see them saying Reid will be there, presumably Reid Hoffman 2 I can drag interesting people over to the house for meetings with you, me and read and Epstein is inquiring about the date. The dates are then put in there so that this reporter is able to confirm. Okay, yes, this is the one, the conference that I was able to report on. So you've got. That's a bit of a sort of. It's a bit of a more tangential link to Reid Hoffman. But then if we put the next one up on the screen, we've got a bit of a back and forth here between Reid Hoffman and Jeffrey Epstein. Epstein is saying, come to the island ranch, let's play. Hoffman says, probably not China visits, et cetera, possibly next year. And he says no, when are you back? Will you be in New York for General Assembly, Clinton, et cetera. This one, in fairness to Reid, it looks like he is declining the invitation to come to the island or the ranch to quote, unquote, play. There were other emails in here as well that show other coordinations of various trips, et cetera, that again demonstrate a level of friendliness and interaction and visits, etc. That are very different from what Reid had previously. You know, what he, how he has tried to present his relationship.
- [59:15]
Saagar Enjeti
In one of them. They go, Reid will spend the night at 71st street of referring to the mansion.
- [59:20]
Krystal Ball
Manhattan Mansion. Yeah, yeah.
- [59:21]
Saagar Enjeti
I mean it's bad, bad. Look, Reed, by the way, has, has put out a statement. Let's go and put C8 please, up on the screen. Hoffman says fixed your headline. LinkedIn founder Reid Hoffman exonerated by Trump's FBI newly released docs release all the files and prosecute the abusers. He's saying here previously and he has noted specifically some of the other people who are named in the FBI file. But he said he regrets his relationship there previously with Epstein. But you can see pretty clearly, you know, close in enough just like with Bill Clinton and others to have a pretty close association to be invited and to have been hobnobbing here with the global and the financial elite.
- [60:00]
Krystal Ball
And that was in response to a New York Post article that put all this together from the one that you said about Reid will spend the night at 71st. There was also apparently a 2014 scheduling scheduling memo listing a variety of dinners and parties as well as the line Jeffrey will have Joy Ito and Reid Hoffman will go to the ranch for the weekend. JE did not give a exact dates. An email Epstein, Pendo's assistant under the heading Trip to the island states Reid will take a Virgin America flight from SFO to Fort Lauderdale, departing at 8:20, landing at 4:40. In 2023, Hoffman visited Epstein's former Caribbean private island, also known as Pedophile island, the Post previously reported. So in any case, and there was some. Also some exchange where like his passport ended up in Epstein and Epstein goodie bag. Anyway, there were visits. There was a relationship there for sure. That again, is very different than what had been portrayed. And actually the New York Times had a great rundown. Go ahead and put C14 up on the screen here. They did a deep dive into a bunch of the characters who said that they were not close to Epstein and really had nothing to do with him. We already showed you. Howard Lutnick. Oh, my God, I'm so was so disgusted and repulsed by him. Elon Musk. I refused the invites. Kathy Rumler said, oh, we just had this professional relationship. You've also got Richard Branson, Andrew Farkas. He's another. Oh, he's a big Cuomo donor. That's his deal. And I think another finance guy, Peter Thiel. We're gonna get to Steve Tisch. We're gonna get to. And Leon Black. We actually. Leon escaped this particular.
- [61:32]
Saagar Enjeti
Well, I mean, we might escape this one because we already had everything needed.
- [61:35]
Krystal Ball
He's already taken the. The full. The full L here. So we didn't do another dive. And that one goes without Mr. Leon Black.
- [61:41]
Saagar Enjeti
We don't need to continue to go on Leon. Let's do Richard Branson quickly. Let's do C9 just to show people. The famous British billionaire told Epstein to, quote, bring his harem the next time they met as he gave him PR advice after the conviction for procuring a minor for prostitution. Steve's NFL fans, this one is the biggest NFL story that's come out so far. Let's go to the next one one. So the emails show this is by, in my opinion, actually the worst exchange between any of the billionaires. Because you can see here clearly Tish received scouting reports on women from Epstein, and the two men discussed whether the women were, quote, pro or civilian or a working girl. And they were sent in 2013. So you can see here that the New York Giants chairman, co owner Steve Tisch, himself a billionaire who's related to multiple people who are currently in power. We're talking about multiple women and even referring to them as pro, civilian and or working girls. So I'll let you surmise exactly what that means. You know, to be clear, he denies any. Wrong.
- [62:43]
Krystal Ball
Here's. Here's his statement. I pulled it up. We had A brief association where I exchanged emails about adult women. And in addition, we discussed movies, philanthropy and investments. I did not take him up on any of his invitations. Never went to his island. As we all know now. He was a terrible person and someone I deeply regret associating on with. The Tisch's are one of the wealthiest families in the country. Extremely influential. You know, obviously this is part owner of the Giants, but also was a huge film producer. Wasn't a producer of like Forrest Gump. Yeah, like major film credits. And yeah, I mean this is a very powerful, wealthy family. So not surprising to find one of them turning up in, in the mix here. Wouldn't be surprising to find more of them turning.
- [63:24]
Saagar Enjeti
Oh, there's other, yeah, there's, there's, there's other mentions of NFL owners, but this was the most, this was the like worst one in my opinion. What else do we have?
- [63:33]
Krystal Ball
We've got some Peter Thiel stuff here.
- [63:35]
Saagar Enjeti
I believe this one has been reported out, but you know, still noteworthy. Let's put C11, please. The quote we already knew this is C11. Let's put this one up here on the screen. Introducing Teal to the Kremlin. He's calling him Kremlin. But I will return to Sergei Belkov, who mentioned in the intel block that we're about to do. But the introduction there very important. Sergei is, is a former, went to FSB school in Russia. Very connected person who Epstein appears to have turned to on multiple occasions. Also Jason Calacanis. Can we put C13 up there on the screen? Jason Calacanis had previously said he barely knew Epstein. Their relationship was in the early 2000s, despite corresponding warmly quote as pal in 2011. This is Jason from the all in podcast. Now, he says he assumes he was a spy trying to compromise people, but you can see, see. Hey, pal. Running out to a kid's birthday party. We'll dig up her info. These are folks trying to build a business. They're making some sort of business connection there all the way back in 2000 or in 2011. But of course it is years after he previously said that he knew them. So there's a roundup there that billionaires are close to billionaire. I don't know Jason's net worth, but generally people who are powerful, famous, extremely rich, you can see, I mean, we even left people off the list. This is just from the Epstein files released that we have now. Currently there are many, many more more wax. It's like Leon Black Wexner. I mean, it goes without saying, obviously that's an important part of the story, man. There's, there's a lot of Wexner stuff in there. I haven't fully worked through all of it yet, but yeah, I'm still tugging.
- [65:06]
Krystal Ball
On some leads from the New York. That New York Times article I had up earlier just to flesh out the Peter Thiel part, because I do think that, you know, there was significant connectivity between the two, they write. Early last year, the billionaire venture capitalist Peter Thiel wrote an essay for the financial times arguing Mr. Trump's reelection mouth that closely guarded government secrets, including about Mr. Epstein's death, would finally come to light in the months since. The scrutiny around Mr. Epstein instead revealed an investment firm co founded by Mr. Thiel accepted $40 million from Mr. Epstein and that Mr. Epstein and Mr. Thiel corresponded for at least five years before Mr. Epstein's death. Visit me Caribbean, Mr. Epstein urged the tech billionaire in 2018, Jeremiah Hall. A spokesman for Mr. Thiel declined to comment on the relationship, but said that Mr. Thiel never went to Epstein's Island. So there you go. But there was a direct financial relationship there and there was significant correspond over five years, long after the sex crimes conviction and basically leading up until his death.
- [66:04]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah. And by the way, remember that the entire justification, let's say from Leon Black, is that he would turn to Epstein for tax advice. And then I just saw an email where somebody asked Epstein about tax, the 2017 tax cuts and Jobs Act. And he was like, hey, any good loopholes in here? He's like, no, they closed. Closed most of them. But he's like, barely. He's offering like surface level advice on taxes that you would read from the New York Times. Like the idea that this is some sophisticated tax guru, it just doesn't show at all inside the email. So the justification from a lot of these billionaire guys was always helping us, you know, save a hell of a lot of money via taxes. Again, very, very basic stuff. In another one, it was him sending an article to his account accountants saying, hey, can we do this? Like whenever it comes to depreciating a private jet, that is not sophisticated. Like, that is not somebody who is like some well engineered person who's like helping all of these billionaires save things in very, very, very niche ways. That's not somebody who has to read, you know, an article and then send it to an accountant. Yeah, Leon paid him some $150 million supposedly for tax advice. So sorry, no evidence.
- [67:14]
Krystal Ball
That's actually a great point is we were sold this. Like, oh, well, he was this financial wizard, not a scrap, understanding all this complicated financial engineering. And so he was truly of immense benefit to these powerful billionaires and made himself indispensable. And you do not see that in these emails. You don't see.
- [67:33]
Saagar Enjeti
You would see like sophisticated hedge. You know, I mean I look again, I read through his original emails that we had access to. It was very basic stuff, like nothing. Yes, some sophisticated, when I say sophisticated, like complicated financial instruments, but that's just stuff that all wealthy people have access to. There was nothing about some like ultra proprietary hedge FX strategy or any of that that you would expect from a hedge fund which returns more than like, you know, some of the best hedge funds in the world. So that narrative, at the very least, like you can easily say it's not there. The billionaires used him because of his social connections and because of his connections to various foreign governments and people in power. That's it. That's what the emails do.
- [68:11]
Krystal Ball
That was a conspiracy which is money making, money making.
- [68:14]
Saagar Enjeti
I mean he was getting transfers from the Rothschild family, from all these building multiple different banks, Hollywood and all this. Remember all those bank records still yet to be released. So that's another, you know, stuff that we still would like to see. But I do think it's important to say a lot of these guys will say, oh well, he was a genius whenever it came to business. No period, end of story. It was all because of the connections, which is the conspiracy. The stuff that they said backed it up doesn't exist. We haven't seen this in part of it. And some sort of alleged financial strategy, tax strategy. Zero evidence of that now so far.
- [68:59]
Krystal Ball
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Saagar Enjeti
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Saagar Enjeti
Sound familiar?
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Saagar Enjeti
Janice Torres here and I'm Austin Hankwitz.
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Public Ad Read
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Saagar Enjeti
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Krystal Ball
We're back. Talk to some incredible small business owners.
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Saagar Enjeti
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Krystal Ball
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