← Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
2/24/25: German Far-Right Surge, Crowds Flock To Bernie, Warren Buffett Hoards Cash, Luigi Fans Sound Off Outside Courthouse
00:59:40
Loading summary
Transcript133 lines
- [00:00]
Sagar Enjeti
Where'd you get those shoes?
- [00:02]
Crystal Ball
Easy. They're from dsw. Because DSW has the exact right shoes for whatever you're into right now. You know, like the sneakers that make office hours feel like happy hour, the boots that turn grocery aisles into runways.
- [00:15]
Sagar Enjeti
And all the styles that show off the many sides of you from daydreamer.
- [00:19]
Crystal Ball
To multitasker and everything in between. Because you do it all in really great shoes. Find a shoe for every you at your dsw store or dsw.com hi, this is Jenny Garth from I Do Part 2. Who do you know on Ozempic.
- [00:36]
Sagar Enjeti
Or Semaglutide right now? Everyone, right?
- [00:39]
Crystal Ball
These game changing weight loss meds are everywhere and FutureHealth makes it easy to get started. Find out if weight loss meds are right for you in just three minutes@tryfh.com FutureHealth is not a healthcare services provider. Meds are prescribed at providers discretionary results may vary.
- [00:58]
Sagar Enjeti
Sponsored by Future Health. At Ameca Insurance, we know it's more than just a car. It's the two door coupe that was.
- [01:06]
Crystal Ball
There for your first drive.
- [01:10]
Sagar Enjeti
The hatchback that took you cross country and back, and the minivan that tackles the weekly carpool for the cars you couldn't live without. Trust Ameca Auto Insurance Amica. Empathy is our best policy. Hey guys, Sagar and Crystal here.
- [01:31]
Crystal Ball
Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.
- [01:38]
Sagar Enjeti
This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.
- [01:44]
Crystal Ball
So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.
- [01:55]
Sagar Enjeti
We need your help to build the future of independent news media. And we hope to see you@breaking points.com let's get to Germany, shall we? Because there were some fascinating elections that happened over there. Shall we put this up there on the screen. The German election official. Okay, you want to help me with the pronunciation? Is it Friedrich or Friedrich? I'm going to go with Friedrich. All right. Friedrich Mertz. The Germans are gonna crucify me for this. Is set to become Germany's next chancellor according to the exit polls and now the federal election results that we have learned. So this is actually super interesting because there's a couple of narrative things that are happening. You'll recall that J.D. vance and Elon Musk had been supporters and or meeting with the AfD, the alternative for Germany, the more right wing party there that's very against immigration. This guy, Friedrich Mertz, what I've read about him, he's kind of, he's almost a Washington type figure. He was in politics and then he left to become a lobbyist and then he came back after he became filthy rich, almost in a Trump way where he's like, now I've made my money and what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna save Germany from the AfD. That was really his goal. His goal was to transform the center right party into a party that could subsume the concerns around immigration and around Ukraine, the economy, et cetera, into his party and to keep the AFD out of power. And that's what it seems the coalition government that he will form is trying to do at the same time, before we even get to all of that, the results themselves are fascinating because it is a German basically affirmation of the same trend across the continent and in my opinion, here in the United States too. Let's put this on the screen, friend. Ryan Gradusky pointed out, if you look at this election in Germany, the CDU is the second worst showing in the parties history. Right. That's what Merce's party is.
- [03:53]
Crystal Ball
Those are the ones that came in first but performed poorly compared to their history.
- [03:58]
Sagar Enjeti
Exactly. SPD is the worst result for them since 1887. The Greens just had their second best showing ever. The AfD, the right wing party, just had their best showing ever. And then the FDP is the second worst showing ever. Now in American speak, we can look at the Greens and the AFD and say what? You've got the left and the right, which are either their best or their second best showing ever. Now that doesn't mean that they're gonna be in power because what's happened is that the CDU is gonna form a coalition with an alternative party to make sure that the AfD doesn't have access to those high government officials. But I still think that's pretty important in terms of looking at the explosion of support both for the Greens and for the AfD. And in both you actually see similar forces that are here in the United States and across the continent. So for example, in France, where we saw the left wing Socialist Party that did very well, while the far right National Front was doing very well. Macron is completely under siege right now. We all know that whenever he leaves, whatever comes next, it will not look like Mr. Centrist, that is over there. This guy, again, I don't wanna claim that he's right wing or any. He's very pro NATO, he's very pro Ukraine. When he's conservative, he's conservative in the sense that our George W. Bush types are. Was like, we need to clean up the debt crisis over here. But he' much more willing to talk about immigration and to change some of the immigration policy in Germany. He's much more of like a stronger German, stronger Germany that will break away from the United States. But do you want to weigh in on that before I go anymore? Just because I think that the surge of AfD in the Greens is the most important story out of this election.
- [05:35]
Crystal Ball
The general orientation of the Sudanese party is like immigration restrictionists, but pro Ukraine. That's kind of their thing. Just put the previous element just back up on the screen. There was one other thing that I wanted to note which will feed into the conversation about the far right and the far left in terms of the German election context. BSW is interesting too. So this is this break off party started by this person who was previously part of the far left party and then positioned themselves as being left on most issues and less like pro Ukraine but pro immigration restriction. So you could kind of put them also in the bucket of these like far left and far right upstarts, et cetera. And then with the AfD, we'll show the map in just a minute. But there's a huge geographic divide. I mean, you look at these maps and it's east and West Germany just like to a T. So that's a very interesting dynamic there as well. And they performed basically where the polls had them performing. So it doesn't seem like Elon or J.D. vance's insertion into this election really particularly made a difference in either direction.
- [06:50]
Sagar Enjeti
No, no. Yeah. I mean, that would look in general, if you're abroad and you're, you know, voting because how J.D. vance told you to, what are you doing? Like you should be voting based on how you think for your own country.
- [07:01]
Crystal Ball
Yeah. And they've got plenty of issues. A little bit of a backlash because they did not perform as high as they had at some point in some polls. Anything. There was a little bit of a backlash. But I mean, I think the best you can say is it didn't seem to make that much of a difference.
- [07:14]
Sagar Enjeti
Why should it? Why should it? You know, it's like you got people should vote on your own concerns. I'm not gonna think what you care about at our elections if you look actually though, in terms of the change since 2021, absolutely fascinating. So the AfD has experienced a 10.4% increase in its vote share since 2021. And the Greens actually lost a little bit, but still had their second best showing ever. The bsw, the CDU and the Left all experienced modest grains, but it's really the decline of the spd, the centrist party, the center left Liberal Party, that is the one that is most like the big headline out of this election. But what you're watching is the basically collapse of the center and Europe is grappling. They're like, what are we doing here? And I think that's really interesting. So you pointed out that map. Why don't we put that up there on the screen? We'll go to the next part, please. This one, by the way, keep in mind, this was apparently from the European elections, European parliament elections in 2024, not for the Bundestag, but it does still shows exactly what you're talking about. Yeah, the dividend between the two of east and West Germany. I am not a scholar or anything. I did read a book once which talked about this, about how basically about how the reunification of Germany is one of the least discussed major political elements of political understanding in the West. As in it really wasn't that long ago, it was only like 30 something years ago. And the clear stark economic differences between the two are really important because it gets to the heart of industrialization being Western, how European you feel, how you feel about Russia and Ukraine, communism and all of that. And I mean, you're talking about generations really that were split apart. So it does make sense as to how that would be. Also economically, as I understand, it's very, very different in terms of how they fare even today, some 30 some years later. Which again makes complete sense if you were to split a country up for decades and then just throw them back together under different economic models. But it is manifesting itself very importantly politically. That was actually a Merkel ideological project before the mass migration into Europe during the refugee crisis. And a lot of German center right people blame her for kind of splitting apart and opening up this can of worms. But whatever it is, it's been a decade long march, I think, to where we are right now.
- [09:29]
Crystal Ball
Oh, at least. Yeah. And I mean, the east West Germany thing is really fascinating. I mean, Eastern Germany is more rural, less developed. Also, I mean, there was kind of a concerted effort from the Allies to destroy some of the industrial base in East Germany. You know, the bombing of Dresden was devastating to the prospects, the economic prospects of East Germany, et cetera. And so yeah, you can see the very long hangover both of World War II and obviously of the, you know, reunification and how recently that is in terms of history. So that certainly plays a huge role here in terms of Germany. Part of what makes this election so important and interesting is there are few countries that were as impacted by the Ukraine war as Germany. Their economy really was quite reliant on cheap gas from Russia. And so without that energy prices have risen significantly. Huge cost of living issues. So you've got that, you have these longer term structural issues with the German economy where they really kind of play placed some of the wrong bets. They did not get in on the technologies of the future. Right. Germans are known for their like industrial production and for their auto industry. And the auto industry really just stayed set on gas powered cars. Really kind of turned up their nose at EVs and unlike here, you know, in Germany, first of all, they were selling a lot of cars into the Chinese market. And China now has their own burgeoning, very successful auto industry, including the best EVs in the entire world. And so that's been a problem for Germany. They really had been reliant on that Chinese market. And so there were these longer term structural inabilities to adapt to modern environment. Then you have the high energy prices. So they're going through a deindustrialization that's kind of similar to what we went through post NAFTA or post the Permanent Normal trading relations with China. And that's putting an economic squeeze on. And then you layer on top of that, I mean truly very, very significant levels of migration. Quite a lot larger per capita than even what we've experienced here where their percent of the foreign born population has gone up to 20%. So you can see how all of these things, to be honest with you, when you put all those factors together, it's a wonder that AFD isn't actually outright meeting. And if it wasn't the fact that they're out there actively flirting with Nazi slogans and plotting some of them to overthrow the government and all of these sorts of things, they probably would be doing even better than they are right now.
- [12:15]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, I will say I think they, they have some, I feel complicated I guess about AFD in that they're a little bit less like pro innovation I guess, if that you would, I would like for them to be because it's like you just said, they're very much focused on migration. I think that's fine. I think immigration is probably the most important issue for them. But if you people wanna be independent, you need to make some shit. You need to stop being completely reliant on us. That's my biggest problem, is that they really don't have any real vision for their own economy or for basically how to reverse the managed decline of the last 40 years, which it turns out also, I just can't let this go. What you were talking about with the Russian gas, the German miracle was fake. It was entirely built on cheap gas from Russia. The moment that that got turned off, they went into a deep slide and their economy continues. But let's also put that with the problems that this new guy faces. Put this up there, please, on the screen. This is C5, the statement here from the next prime minister. He says, quote, I am communicating closely with a lot of prime ministers and heads of state. This is Merced heads of eu and for me it is an absolute priority to strengthen Europe as quickly as possible so that we achieve independence from the US step by step. I never thought I would need to say something like this on television, but after the latest statements made by Donald Trump last week, it is clear that the Americans, at any case, these Americans, this administration mostly don't care about the future of Europe one way or the other. That's correct. And so we wish you the best, Mr. Merce. I wish you independence. I hope you guys do well. You can take over the rest of the continent. It's not like there's all that much for us.
- [13:53]
Crystal Ball
There seems to me to be the right that he's thinking about things correctly.
- [13:56]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, I completely agree. I go, listen, you have your own shit to deal with in terms of your managed decline economy, you have mass migration problems. You are less important to the United States than you have ever been in Germany's entire history. Why should we care about you and continue to underwrite all of your security architecture and keep flying to the Munich security Conference? Like you just said, the only reason we should have even cared about Germany previously was for cars. Well, guess what? Now that China's a net exporter of cars, they're eating the Germans lunch. Even in their own economy. Something like 10% of cars in Germany have sold are from China. It's unbelievable. So they have massive structural problems to think about. I think the only joke that's going on here is that they continue to try and rope us in because they know they can't do anything without the backstop, according to them, of Americans. This is where I wanted to get Ukraine in C4, please. Up on the screen. The European leaders are currently drafting a quote, peacekeeping plan for Ukraine, but American forces have to serve as the backstop. Why? Because according to them, Russia would not, Russia both would not be afraid enough of French and of UK troops that are doing peacekeeping in Ukraine. But more so they literally don't have the resources to even sustain 30,000 troops in Ukraine without the intelligence and support of the United States. So their current plan, which I think is bullshit, is 30,000 European peacekeepers, no US soldiers directly on the ground, but instead we basically pay for all of the support stuff in Poland and on the NATO borders that surround it. So this apparently is something that probably falls in line with this new German chancellor. It's unclear just because the guy is very pro Ukraine and apparently even wants to send them more missiles, but at the same time has not signed on necessarily to the Macron or the Keir Starmer proposal. So there's a lot still up in the air for whatever happens with the Ukraine peace deal.
- [15:52]
Crystal Ball
That is definitely the case. I guess what I will say is that for the Joe Bidens, the liberals of the world who really pushed to back Ukraine, okay, I'm actually okay with that, but then pushed them to continue fighting and wanted this war and actively thwarted the early stage peace negotiations that could have come to some sort of a resolution so everyone could have moved forward with and avoiding the mass, mass death and destruction that we've seen. For these liberals, they really have helped to provide the impetus that has led to the rise of the AfD and other FAR right parties in Europe. I mean, the German example is I think really pretty clear cut because their energy prices and overall inflation were so impacted by Ukraine. I mean, yes, Covid was part of it too, but Ukraine I think is a really undertold part of that story because I think it's uncomfortable for liberal media. That was all in on this project of course as well. But you know, the Ukraine war in terms of its impact on Europe was significantly inflationary, really contributed to the cost of living crisis and really did help to give fuel to parties like the AfD. The last thing, and I'll note here in this again is some reporting from Dropsite is they also took advantage of Israel's genocide in Gaza and the AfD is extremely pro Israel. They have been pushing for Germany is a censorious place and the place that it has been most censorious is on any sort of pro Palestinian speech. Francesca Albanese was just there and they blocked her event and they're Incredibly aggressive about effectively criminalizing any pro Palestinian speech. And AFD has really seized on that and been a part of this movement. And that has also helped to bolster them. So all of these, quote unquote, like liberal wars, that Biden and other. Biden is really the primary actor here because everybody was following the US's lead on this, have done nothing but to help to further break down the liberal order and bolster the far right throughout Europe.
- [18:07]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, it's completely their fault. I also tell you, I'm not gonna let the Greens off the hook. The Greens, it's, you know, my secondary thing. How are the Greens not winning this election? That's the crazy thing. Because the only reason that they haven't exploded in popularity is that many Germans are still pissed at them for being anti nuclear and for the denuclearization of the country, which led to explosion in reliance on Russian gas. So Greens, if you're listening, if you had just reversed your policy on nuclear, or if you at least apologize, come forward and had asked for that, you could easily, I think, have won that election. Because Germans are liberal. I mean, look at them, their social attitudes, the way that they think about the continent, even, yes, on migration. But they're way more permissive than even we are. They're much more polite. They're very, very into what you were saying. The censorious. Their post World War II censor stuff on the books is nuts. That's another thing that annoys me about the AfD, the Israel stuff, is that the laws on the books in Germany today are basically meant to prevent, according to them, the rise of any, like, new Nazi party. But they use it to basically ban anything that they deem socially unacceptable. Famously, they would ban, like Tom Cruise for Scientology, stuff like that. The laws are just incredibly expansive and you can use them against anything. So, for example, they've been used in the past against right wing activists, and now they're using it against these Palestine folks. But to cheer on being censorious or it's just you're leading to your own destruction. That's what keeps the center alive in Germany is a lot of the managing of media and of public opinion. It's part of the reason why our country's a lot more raucous, I think, is that, yes, even with all of our free speech problems and all of that, it's still a way more free place than most countries in Europe. We're allowed to have much more raucous debates than anybody else.
- [19:51]
Crystal Ball
All right, some of us are on this show Even.
- [19:53]
Sagar Enjeti
Oh, yeah, that's nothing compared to what if we were German, we would be going at him. I can't imagine.
- [20:00]
Crystal Ball
I admire the guys in that regard, the Brits. There's the way their interviewers are so aggressive.
- [20:06]
Sagar Enjeti
What's that guy?
- [20:06]
Crystal Ball
People don't get their feelings hurt in the same way. I really. I respect that. You know.
- [20:09]
Sagar Enjeti
Who's that guy from the BBC? Andrew something.
- [20:12]
Crystal Ball
I know who you're talking about, man.
- [20:14]
Sagar Enjeti
He's good. Yeah, the guy with the glasses and all that. And he just. He just gives it to you. I love it.
- [20:18]
Crystal Ball
I mean, this is part of why Piers Morgan is so successful, because he. Yeah, he has these, like. They're all calling each other names and.
- [20:24]
Sagar Enjeti
Like, look as much as I.
- [20:26]
Crystal Ball
You're a scumbag. You're a piece of shit. And then there's just like. Invites him right back on the show again.
- [20:30]
Sagar Enjeti
Let me just say that, as people know, I hate Europe, but let me tell you this, the UK has the best electoral system, I think around, because what happens when you lose an election? What happens? Fuck off. You know all these people. David Cameron, yeah, You get to big comeback as your little. He was like the secretary, whatever the Secretary of State equivalent is. But most of the time, Gordon Brown, fuck off. All these other leaders, if you lose an election, you're done. Most of the time, they completely recycle. Liz Truss, she's here in Washington begging for attention at CPAC in London. She's a joke. I love her.
- [21:02]
Crystal Ball
It's a joke that we invite her here.
- [21:04]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, you're right. I love how when you lose there, they get rid of you. Most of the time they bring in a new leader and they reinvent themselves as a party and it works. And, you know, you can have a vote of no confidence. The government can fall like this. They have elections all the time. I love.
- [21:20]
Crystal Ball
I prefer the parliamentary system. Sure, it has its drawbacks as well, but, yeah, I think it's better than what we got. Speaking of electoral systems.
- [21:30]
Sagar Enjeti
That's right.
- [21:31]
Crystal Ball
Bernie Sanders, who is now 83 years old, has decided to do this series of town halls about oligarchy in swing districts across the country. And in particular, Bernie, unlike apparently any other Democrat, has this idea that, hey, you know, they're about to vote on this budget that is supposed to massively cut Medicaid and give a giant tax cut to the rich. And there is a very narrow margin that Republicans have in the House. So if you can flip, if you can put pressure on just a couple of swing district Republicans, then you can block them from being able to successfully make those cuts. So he has gone so far to Nebraska, where Don Bacon is the representative there in a relative swing district, and also did a town hall in Iowa City, Iowa, as well. Turnout has been insane. Reception for him has been insane. And we're about to show you a little bit of this. But in Iowa City, they actually had. He had to give three different speeches because they had two separate overflow crowds that he had to go and speak to. So let's take a look at a little bit of Bernie Sanders. Here. You can see him walking in. This is Nebraska, being escorted in by the Omaha police. There you can see the crowd. You know, huge room filled to the brim. There are pictures of people waiting there outside for them. I actually, back in 2018, went to some of these events that he did supporting various congressional candidates. This is now in Iowa City, Iowa. But that was the original crowd in the auditorium. This is overflow crowd, I believe, number one, where he goes and speaks to them there as well, trying to motivate the crowd. And there was another overflow crowd as well, that he had to go. So just a huge reception here for Bernie, which I think speaks to the fact. I mean, first of all, he has, unlike most Democrats, he has an actual ideology, he has an actual vision. It's something that's consistent and coherent and makes sense. And he's got a strategy. And the liberal Democratic base has really been just kind of totally abandoned by their actual leaders, whether in the House or the Senate, who have been completely asleep at the switch, have not shown anything like the energy or the strategy of Bernie Sanders. This ties in also to just the level of energy that is starting to build in terms of. One of the early things we tracked was thousands of calls into senators and members of Congress. Now you're starting to see this huge response. Anytime any member of Congress does a town hall, you see these droves of people turning up who are very upset about what's going on with Trump and Elon in particular. And then you also see this energy and excitement around Bernie Sanders. I mean, in a sense, Sager, it's really a shame that he's so old at this point, because this really is kind of his moment because he's been proven right on so many things. In terms of his analysis of how you actually combat Trumpism and actually offer an agenda that would make sense to people.
- [24:43]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, look, as people know, I think the only Democrat politician who I have the softest spot for is Bernie, I still love him. I really do. And so I appreciate he's not really a Democrat.
- [24:53]
Crystal Ball
So maybe.
- [24:53]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, fair enough. I don't know what it is. All those Bernie clips from the 90s, whenever he's just railing against corporate media and him and no Noam Chomsky and all that, I just.
- [25:02]
Crystal Ball
I like him. He's so true.
- [25:03]
Sagar Enjeti
I can't help. I can't help but like him. But I guess my caution on all of this is always just. I wonder if we're looking a little too closely for the Tea Party comparison. Just because so much of the Tea Party last time was not just organized or not was organic movement, but it was the influx of billions of dollars from the Koch brothers and from a lot of the Freedom Works and all of this. There was an architecture in Washington waiting for the Tea Party. They didn't know it, but they were waiting with all of the dollars in the world to organize. All the stuff doesn't really exist on the liberal side. Like if you think about what the liberal NGOs and all those other people are the most concerned about, it's like USAID funding transports. They're not ready for some oligarch conversation. Cause they would have to pay taxes. So they're not ready to get in on all of this. And this is kind of what I think the issue with the Bernie movement here will be, is that organic anger is great, it can lead you to a midterm and all that, but you need to be organized around a real political wedge and project. Yeah, give it to the Tea Party for what it is. They hated one thing, Obama, and they wanted what? Defund Obamacare. That was like their number one thing. I don't see yet anything other than stop Musk or you know, like kind of like performatively protest. And it just. I'm getting Occupy vibes off this. As opposed to Tea Party, where, I mean, let's be honest, if you look at the political effectiveness of those two things, Occupy basically didn't do anything. Whereas the Tea Party, again, not a huge supporter of them or whatever, but they really did. They were able to take over the Republican Party and they were able to shut down the government if they wanted to basically kick out John Boehner. I mean, they had real scalps behind their back. True.
- [26:46]
Crystal Ball
And I think those points are well taken, especially in terms of the organization piece. Yeah, it's important because people want to pretend like, like the Tea Party was just an organic movement.
- [26:57]
Sagar Enjeti
It was mostly organic, but it's about the big stuff on the Top right.
- [27:00]
Crystal Ball
And there were people there, and there was an architecture there to marshal that organic energy. And, I mean, I, you know, I was running for Congress in 2010. I went to. My policy was I would go and speak to any group that invited me that was in my district. I went to a bunch of these Tea Party town halls. So I saw it very up close. And, you know, these people were not like paid operatives. They were genuinely motivated. Now, were they all partisan Republicans who were super activated? Yes, by and large, that's who they were. And by and large, that's what we're talking about here, too, are people who are already active partisan Democrats, but who are now activated in a way that they weren't previously. I will say, I think you're giving the Tea Party a little bit too much credit for being ideologically consistent, because ultimately, the energy of the Tea Party, and this is something Emily talks about, too, the energy of the Tea Party, which was just sort of like, we hate Obama. Right. And ends up being, oh, you know, we're for austerity, we're for smaller government, et cetera, ultimately really morphs into the Trump movement, which was not those things, you know, was just about overturning the apple cart. And, I mean, you can look at the debt and the deficit under the first Trump administration. Absolutely exploded. So I think it was a little bit more inchoate ideologically than maybe you're giving it credit for.
- [28:20]
Sagar Enjeti
No, no, you're absolutely right. What I'm talking about are the FreedomWorks. They're elected representatives. Does that make sense? So not necessarily the voters, but like, people like Jim Jordan, who to this day is what this guy is just like a big tech shill. I mean, on the Oversight Committee, he actually is a real libertarian. And a lot of the people they elected, unfortunately, in my opinion, believed a lot of their own bolsters. Shit. Whenever it came to tax debt or whatever. Not the voters. The voters are very different.
- [28:46]
Crystal Ball
They're also not near. I mean, they have done a good job of flexing their power when they've had opportunities to do so, but they also. Now they bend the knee to Trump like it's Trump's party.
- [28:57]
Sagar Enjeti
Yes.
- [28:57]
Crystal Ball
And so those people are very much secondary. We could see the way that that all went down with the budget fight at the beginning of the year. And once Musk and Trump were like, this is our budget deal, they're like, yes, sir, no problem. We'll go along with it. So in any case, also with regard to Occupy, it's not like Occupy just fizzled out and went nowhere. Occupy actively morphs into the Bernie Sanders movement. That's where that energy went. And some of the organizers from Occupy are actively involved in the early phases of recruiting Bernie Sanders into the 2016 campaign and being involved in the Bernie Sanders campaign. So, I mean, it did result in this large rebirth of a left wing movement that just did not really exist in America at that point. So were they able to take over the Democratic Party the way that Trump was able to take over the Republican Party? No, they were not able to succeed in that. But it didn't just fizzle out and go nowhere. It did create this large, significant movement. And I think what Bernie is trying to do and what there is an opening for right now, and which you're seeing in the growth, like the channels that are growing, et cetera, online and the flight from msnbc, et cetera, is that you have liberals who are much more open to a Bernie style message than they were previously and who are deeply disgusted with the liberal torch carriers of the like, you know, traditional Democratic establishment. That is what is so different this time from last time. Where that goes, that's a total open question. But you have some 70% of the Democratic base like you people are not fighting against Trump hard enough. And again, that is much more like the numbers under, during when the Tea Party was formed and they were disgusted with Republican establishment leadership and Republican establishment leadership was underwater even with a Republican base. You now have that dynamic on the Democratic side. So obviously there's no guarantee, but a lot of the ingredients are there a possibility is there that did not exist in the first Trump administration. And you even have people like Neera Tanden, who of course, now that Bernie's a million years old and will never run for president again, it's safe for her to say, but is like lauding Bernie for going out and making his case with regard to all of that.
- [31:17]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, I don't disagree with a lot of this. I guess it just comes back to effectiveness and what you're trying to accomplish. Because can we play the clip of the guy asking them to get arrested? Cause that's important. I think a lot of liberal activism is deeply performative and again rooted in their genuine desire to just recreate the 1960s, which if you can go back and read all of our debates about whether protests and all of that is even effective or not. But let's play it just because that to me, is the beating heart of liberalism.
- [31:48]
Crystal Ball
Now this is. We have two clips put together here. The first one is the one saga's referring to, which is a Democratic representative. I think it's New York's 22nd congressional district or something like that, who hosted a town hall has this huge crowd and people very energized. And one gentleman stands up, and this clip went kind of viral. And then there's also a clip from a Wisconsin Republican town hall where you see people there flooding in who are very unhappy with this individual and what he has to say. So let's play both of those.
- [32:20]
Sagar Enjeti
I was so proud that my representative was on the front line right there. But I thought about Jimmy Carter and I thought about John Lewis, and I.
- [32:31]
Crystal Ball
Know what John Lewis would have done.
- [32:33]
Sagar Enjeti
He would have gotten arrested that day. Make them outlaw you. We will stand behind you. We will be there with you. I will get.
- [32:52]
Crystal Ball
President Trump has issued a lot of executive orders. I think, by and large, this is.
- [32:58]
Sagar Enjeti
Moving very quickly compared to other administrations. And I think across the board, he's done some very good things.
- [33:05]
Crystal Ball
I think.
- [33:14]
Sagar Enjeti
He'S gotten rid of birthright citizenship, illegal as hell. I think the reason I wanted to play that is, and I'm sure you'll disagree with this, is I just don't. I don't understand this, like, fetishization of you need to go and get arrested by standing in the door of the Department of Education. It's like you're not doing anything. I mean, and I understand it might feel good, it might look good, I guess, but it's one of those where there just seems to be this desire. They're like, we need to stand up against Elon. And that will definitely manifest in the midterms, no question about it. But it's like, to what end? And that's why, again, I respect Bernie, because Bernie has a plan. Like, you could say whatever else you want about the guy. The guy has some pretty consistent beliefs across the hell, like, the overwhelming arc of his life. But if you look at the Democratic Party today, and we talk a lot about this, with the constituency and all of that, how can you be anti oligarchy when the vast majority of rich people in this country are just liberals? Like, are people who. And I'm talking about even the super rich, like, yes, many billionaires supported Trump. The vast majority supported Kamala. Right. Or if you look at the NGOs and the democratic architecture, the HR class, the DEI stuff, like, all of those people are just, like, much more engaged in culture war as opposed to a Bernie plan. And they would, of course, love to see somebody stand in the DOE in the doors. But, like, once they're in power and they're selling to people. I'm just not sure I see it in the same successful movement. Not saying it can't succeed in the midterms at all. I'm just, I don't see like the Bernie energy. Like, I was just on Midas Touch's YouTube channel. Number one podcast in the country, by the way. It's all just like anti Trump shit posting. Mostly it's just like Drumpf humiliates himself yesterday. I'm like, okay, I mean, what are we doing here?
- [35:01]
Crystal Ball
Maybe he did, huh? Maybe he did.
- [35:02]
Sagar Enjeti
Okay, I mean, fine, look, I mean.
- [35:04]
Crystal Ball
It'S just like catnip or shit libs.
- [35:06]
Sagar Enjeti
They're just like, oh, DRUMP is so bad.
- [35:08]
Crystal Ball
No, but that's why Bernie being the really, he is the leader of the Democratic Party at this point in time, because no one else is filling the void. That's why that is so important. Because you're right. You have liberals who are well intentioned, who are disgusted with their leadership. They're disgusted with, like, Joe Amico run msnbc. They're discussed with the Washington Post, they're discussed with the New York Times. And they need some direction of like, like, how do you effectively, like, marshal some sort of movement and in what kind of a direction? And so, yes, that's why it matters to have Bernie out there. Like, the problem is oligarchy. Here's the plan, here's the agenda. Here's how we're gonna block the cuts to Medicaid. Here's how we're gonna block the tax cuts to the rich. This is what we're, you know, this is what we're gonna go out and try to accomplish. Because there does need to be some marshaling and coherence added to this movement. There's no doubt about that. But what I will say is, again, the opening is just different than it ever has been. And there's just no doubt about that. The fact that Hakeem Jeffries, the liberal base, hates this guy. They hate him. They're disgusted with him. And so when you see that clip of this man who's standing up, who's like, great that you were the Department of Education, but next time get arrested, we'll have your back. We'll be there. I think it would be a mistake to like, overanalyze, like, oh, well, will that particular tactic be successful? I think it's more that they feel so abandoned by the fact that this party, which made the case Donald Trump is an authoritarian. Donald Trump is a fascist. Now he's in there and his party is going to CPAC and doing Sig Heil over and over again. He's saying out there making the case like Trump is the living embodiment of the Constitution. He's saying effectively, les tats c'est moi. Right? I am the law. I can't violate the law if I'm in the context of saving the country. Elon is consolidating power in this brazen, naked, self dealing way. All the things they've warned about that the Democratic Party warned about, they're happening, they're here. And you've got a bunch of listless, know nothing leaders who are just sitting back like, let him punch himself down. Don't swig at every pitch, pitch. They just want to see someone with some fight and some energy, that's all. And so far the people who have really tried to provide that are Bernie has the best plan and the best strategy that we've seen so far. AOC has been very aggressive in terms of getting out there and meeting the moment in terms of her rhetoric. And I think that's really all they're looking for, is for people to show some fight. They know they're not but magicians, they know they can't magically turn it back. They know that maybe getting arrested in front of the Department of Education isn't gonna solve the problem overnight or whatever. They just wanna see some fight. And I think that there was a lot of that with the Tea Party as well.
- [38:05]
Sagar Enjeti
I agree. I just agree.
- [38:06]
Crystal Ball
There's a lot of that with Trump too, to be honest with you, where it's like they just love to see him take on the fight and be unafraid of it and own the libs. And that's kind of what the liberal base wants to see right now from their leaders and they're not getting from anyone, say, basically like Bernie Sanders.
- [38:22]
Sagar Enjeti
See, I think that's an important point though, is that what does owning the lib, you, it's like, you know, it gets you that farmer guy who got his government contract shut off and he's like, it's the government who's coming after me. So it's like, listen guys, if you want your lib rage to be hijacked by rich people, which is basically what's happened throughout the culture war on left and right, like, go ahead, I guess. But I mean, but again, that's why.
- [38:42]
Crystal Ball
The Bernie piece matters so much, because.
- [38:44]
Sagar Enjeti
Bernie, are we overstating a little bit? I mean, the guy sold out 2,300 or had 2300 people in Nebraska, like you and I sold out at a place with. With like 15, 1600 people. Like, not a lot of people. If 10,000 people show up, call me. All right.
- [38:56]
Crystal Ball
Have you been to Iowa City, Iowa? These are small places.
- [38:59]
Sagar Enjeti
Iowa City. Isn't Iowa City the place where they have. What's it called? Isn't the university there? Isn't it one of the most liberal counties there? So again, let's not overstate the case. Like, Iowa's not going blue. Like, Nebraska's not going blue. In terms of like all of these places where it matters, Wisconsin, all that. I'm gonna pay much more attention to that. That town hall. Maybe that guy will lose. But I mean, I just, again, like, there just seems to be like a lib wish casting happening here, which makes me very skeptical because so much lib wish casting during the election turned out to be bullshit.
- [39:31]
Crystal Ball
But you acknowledge, like, there's probably gonna be a significant backlash in the midterm.
- [39:36]
Sagar Enjeti
Absolutely. But I think that would happen.
- [39:38]
Crystal Ball
I think Virginia is gonna be in a bloodbath. They have elections this year. I think it's gonna be a bloodbath because of how many federal government workers there are and how much this hits home. And not just in the Northern Virginia suburbs, but throughout the state, including in Norfolk, including the town where I live, et cetera. And so the backlash is. It has emerged, right? It is here. The energy is there. You can see the trend and the trajectory it's on. And all I'm saying is it is, I think, very inchoate. I think it is just a reaction. The same way the Tea Party was just really just a reaction against Obama and Democrats having a trifecta. This is a similar sort of parallel thing with the specific tension point being around Elon Musk basically appointing himself CEO, dictator, king of the entire government. But that's why it matters to have these. It had Paul Ryan and the Tea Party and all those people shaping what that movement ended up being about. And so who takes control of the movement? And right now, it's Bernie and the left that are stepping up to the plate. Really matters for what the political goals end up being, how it's framed, and what ends up ultimately happening.
- [40:50]
Sagar Enjeti
I hate to say, you know who my money's on. Buttigieg. I think Pete. Pete's playing his cards. He's been on Twitter, he's been fighting. He's gonna win in Michigan. We all know it. I'm already wanna blow my brains out.
- [41:01]
Crystal Ball
Too far out.
- [41:02]
Sagar Enjeti
I can see him. Pete's Tanned, he's rested, he's ready. It's unfortunate, but I think he could be the bridge between the NGOs and the Lib rage. But listen, maybe I'm. All right. Let's get to Warren Buffett. Let's go down to Warren Buffett. We've been really paying attention to this because it could be a signal, some major warning signs in the economy. Let's put this up there on the screen. So a lot of financial news outlets have been taking note of this. Warren Buffett is currently trying to reassure his shareholders over his record amount of cash. The amount of cash is actually so stunning that it's literally. The letter shows a cash pile grew by just $9 billion in this quarter. The cash pile has now hit 334 billion at the end of last year, with an additional increase percentage wise. Looking at the entire history of the amount of cash and cash equivalents on the Buffett books, there has never been this high. And it's really interesting because of a question of why. So, so what Buffett says is that Berkshire shareholders can rest assured we will forever deploy a substantial of their money in equities, mostly American equities, although many of these will have international operations of significance. But the reason why he pointed to the amount of cash in his letter, Krystal, is that he is saying basically he thinks that there is a massive overprice of assets in the economy. I actually read a book about Buffett. He's an interesting figure, kind of worshiped, sometimes a little bit too much, in my opinion. But the thing is, is that he's of the old school in terms of analyzing stocks, trying to make sure that the multiples fit with that. Whenever he sees a mispriced, that's when he buys. And that style of investment going back over time has obviously made him tremendously wealthy. For him, he sees significant imbalance currently in the economy. Holding cash to be able to buy assets for presumably what he's saying is some sort of crash that's in the future. Now, is he correct? I have no idea. These guys are are wrong all the time. But obviously he's one of the most successful investors literally, in American history. So we should all pay attention. Looking back to all the stuff that he has done previously, whenever he's held cash, he's come out pretty well on top. Whenever he bets on something being overpriced, that's the foundation of his entire stock analysis. Going back for decades, this is the.
- [43:25]
Crystal Ball
Most amount of cash that Berkshire Hathaway has ever held. Quite by a fairly significant margin. So that's something to pay attention to. Something I had noticed before is actually a bunch of billionaires have been dumping stocks. So Bezos has been, Bill Gates has been Zuckerberger, I believe, Ray Dalio, Alex.
- [43:44]
Sagar Enjeti
Karp, he just sold a huge thing of Palantir.
- [43:47]
Crystal Ball
A bunch of billionaires are mitigating their risk and exposure to the stock market. And that's I think, something to pay attention to. One of the things, one of the reasons why we cover Deepseek so extensively is because our stock market is so dependent on this just handful of tech giants. They are responsible for a majority of the growth in our stock market index over the past couple of years. So if their AI projections do not pan out either in terms of their ability to cordon the market or in terms of how impactful AI ends up being, then there could be a massive correction. And so the fact that Deep Seq was developed in China for less money and has a fundamentally sort of different configuration and blew up some of the assumptions undergirding AI development and trajectory in the US was particularly significant because there is a big question about whether there is a huge AI bubble right now comparable to let's say the 2000s.com bubble. And I think that's a very real and live possibility. You add to that some of the things we're about to get into. The housing market still sucks. Inflation now is going back up. Consumer sentiment is falling. You have Trump, who knows what he's going to do in terms of tariffs, the firing, mass firings at the federal government. Yes, it's a comparatively small proportion of the overall workforce, but can have huge reverberating effects throughout the country. All of these pieces should make you pretty nervous.
- [45:25]
Sagar Enjeti
Absolutely. All of the signs are there for some market problems. Put this one up there on the screen. This is from Friday. But just right now when we're looking at the markets as we're recording the show, S and P is mostly flat today, but the Wall street on Friday had a significant dip. It was almost like 1.7% or so. The reason why I paid attention to that is it kind of came basically on macroeconomic news. So it was concerns here over the economy and on tariffs, specifically of the softening of US Consumer demand. I actually gonna pair that with something really interesting that I just saw this morning. Over 50% right now of consumer spending is by the top 10% of the American of the American income owners, meaning rich people are the literal backbone of the economy right now. That's actually really Bad because any change in their consumer behavior means what? Crash for everybody else. Also it's really gross because what it means. I've always pointed this for years. What is like Uber Instacart and all of these like new companies, what are they all about? Serving the convenience of the wealthy. Right. Airbnb, Same thing. Like all of these are about luxury industries where people basically have a mass service class to service the top 10%. That's really bad. More even distribution of consumer spending is what you want in a healthy economy. We don't see that. And then worse is E3, please can we put up on the screen is that the overall price for home sales remains at an all time high for January and the number of sales continue to drop as most people basically decide not to put their home on the market. You've got high interest rates, you've got high home prices. The median home price of a home sold in January was $396,000, which if you look actually at some of the top 10 metros, the price is roughly around 1 million with a 7% mortgage rate. So just think about even if you want what, 20% to avoid PMI and if you're in a major metro area, good luck to you. I mean, who has hundreds of thousands of dollars just sitting around? Not most people. It would take you a lifetime to be able to even save that up. Not yet alone to save for the mortgage payments that come in the future. So it's very difficult. And this is probably what worries me the most and is in my opinion the most existential threat to a Trump presidency is some sort of bubble explosion. It could be. I mean that's the thing about Nvidia. It can still be a phenomenally valuable company and it could still drop by 40% just because of how increased the price is now, relative how inflated it is. Yeah, just how much is there? Look at Meta stock, look at Google stock, any of these other stocks over the last five years. It's insane. And then the billions of CapEx that they're spending on AI development. I think if we put all that together with weak consumer spending and then even if you leave tariffs out of this, just the fundamentals right now are bad. Price hold all time high for homes, lack of credit because mortgage rates are very, very high. Consumer sentiment down. Actually you're seeing an increase in budget stuff, which is not usually a good sign. It means people are tightening their pocketbooks and then complete redistribution, where you have top 10% responsible for more than half of overall consumer spending in the US Economy. That just shows you that if a single thing were to change, like let's say a correction of the stock market by 20% and all those rich people stop spending at least even more of a doom loop that goes through the economy.
- [48:46]
Crystal Ball
That's exactly right. Yeah. And the last piece we have here is just specifically about consumer sentiment which we can put up on the screen. This was the write up from cnn. They say it's consumer sentiment plunges over tariff and inflation fears. So we already saw a pullback in consumer sentiment in January. There was another one in February. This is according to the University of Michigan's latest survey release Friday showed it had declined in February for the second consecutive month, down by a steep 10% from January. That was double the decline initially reported earlier this month. And there's a partisan valence to this. So Republicans are still feeling pretty good. Good. But both Democrats and independents experienced a fall in consumer sentiment. So when you put all these pieces together, it's a pretty perilous landscape. And you again layer on top of it the austerity push from Elon and Doge and the amount of chaos and uncertainty that's injecting with the federal workforce and all of the ancillary jobs that are connected to the federal government and the federal workforce force all of the services throughout the country, things like the national parks, et cetera, that are important to the local economies. And it ends up in a pretty concerning picture for the future.
- [50:01]
Sagar Enjeti
That's right. So everybody just pay attention. The economy. Who knows where things could go. But I am the most worried. And what we always talk about here is the concentration of the magnificent seven stocks in the S&P 500. And the difference, just the sheer ability of the indexes right now to crash just as a result of a reduction in the tech market is like a huge threat. Especially if all of those are overvalued. And when there's a market correction and high interest rates, think about that. Money's expensive and people's overall assets are low. It will just lead to a total change in consumer behavior. Especially for people at the top. It could have all sorts of crazy impacts. So I'm really worried about it. It could also, obviously, obviously what's the easiest thing to do whenever there's a crash? They fire a bunch of people. So then, you know, we have high, we actually have high employment right now, some of the highest ever. But we could have like the worst 1970s scenario of like bad asset prices, high interest rates, high unemployment. It would just be a complete and not to mention, you know, all the domestic strife and all that stuff. I'm still waiting for America to break. Like, I don't know how long they can take it. I just don't get it. The home price thing is the one I think about the most where I'm like, man, like just, you know, decades, if you're like 47 and you still have been unable to buy a house, what do you do? Like, that would break me personally. So I just have no idea, like, how much longer this whole thing can go on.
- [51:23]
Crystal Ball
Yeah, if you look at the cost of housing, education, healthcare, over decades, it just, I mean, it has skyrocketed astronomically. So that the number of hours you have to work at like, you know, an average waist job to be able to afford those things has. I mean, it's just skyrocketed. It's insane compared to what it used to be. And so even as you look at these various indicators of, oh, in this way, America's doing better and Americans are wealthier, et cetera, et cetera. But when you talk about these core staples of a basic middle class life, those are the things that have gone through the roof and there's really no end in sight, no serious attempt being made to deal with housing prices. And that's such a core component to, of how Americans have traditionally been able to build wealth and stability. So that's why we always pay a lot of attention to it. But yeah, a lot of warning signs here.
- [52:17]
Sagar Enjeti
Yep.
- [52:18]
Crystal Ball
In any case, Luigi Mangione made an appearance in court this week and our own Spencer Snyder was there to talk to some of the protesters who were in and around the courtroom about why they were there and what they were hoping to see from this trial. Let's go ahead and get to that. Very fortunate to be joined this morning by Spencer Snyder, who is one of our fantastic breaking points contributors and whose videos regularly blow up on our channel. Great to see you, Spencer.
- [52:46]
Sagar Enjeti
Good to see you, man. Good to be here.
- [52:48]
Crystal Ball
So you were in Manhattan, you spoke to Luigi Mangioni, made his first court appearance there since his original arraignment. And there were a bunch of Luigi supporters and sort of like anti healthcare industry protesters who were there waiting to get inside the courtroom and also outside the courtroom, you were able to speak to some of them. We're going to play a little bit, but why don't you go ahead and set up what we're about to watch here?
- [53:13]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, you know, I went to the rally for Luigi Mangione outside the Manhattan Criminal Court on Saturday Just to talk to some people and see what motivated them to come out. So I just prepared a few of their statements and their general sentiments.
- [53:24]
Crystal Ball
All right, let's go ahead and listen to that. That I spent thousands of dollars out.
- [53:31]
Sagar Enjeti
Of pocket and healthcare expenses in the past year.
- [53:34]
Crystal Ball
I have good healthcare.
- [53:35]
Sagar Enjeti
I have anthem gold ppo. And I just don't think that we.
- [53:39]
Crystal Ball
Should exist in a system where medical.
- [53:42]
Sagar Enjeti
Bankruptcy is a thing. And I don't think that murder is justified.
- [53:46]
Crystal Ball
But when you have a system that systematically devalues the lives of consumers and.
- [53:54]
Sagar Enjeti
Of citizens at the behest of the profit margin of the corporations, you're gonna.
- [54:00]
Crystal Ball
Have people get mad.
- [54:01]
Sagar Enjeti
Brian Thompson is indirectly responsible for the.
- [54:04]
Crystal Ball
Deaths of probably thousands of Americans at this point.
- [54:07]
Sagar Enjeti
Thousand Americans.
- [54:09]
Crystal Ball
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a lot.
- [54:10]
Sagar Enjeti
And so I think free Luigi means free health care. It means free our people.
- [54:15]
Crystal Ball
It means democracy.
- [54:17]
Sagar Enjeti
I don't think there's one person, Person in this country that hasn't had at least some type of negative experience with health care.
- [54:23]
Crystal Ball
I will tell the one about my mom because she's passed since now, but she had a huge tumor in her neck. It turned out to be stage 4 Hodgkin non Hodgkin's lymphoma, which nearly killed her. But had she listened to the health insurance company and the doctor which wasn't willing to pressure the health insurance company, she would have. She would have passed at the age of like 48. It's like I work with a lot of women who have breast cancer and they are getting declined their right to reconstruction. And I have to argue in a document, basically I'll write like a 40 page document saying like, hey, this woman had breast cancer. These are her rights. And they're kind of being declined. And this is like really frequent. Since I'm a home health fate. I've seen it within my patients. My clients getting you know, denied, denied, denied with insurance claim that they really need. And I think it's just extremely unfair. And I again disagree. This is why I'm here. This is why I'm supporting Luigi. He is a hero to me.
- [55:14]
Sagar Enjeti
I don't see him as a criminal at all. We have a solution. The solution is a single payer, ideally a universal payer system across the United States. But we're also here advocating for the New York Healthcare act, which is a single payer system for New York. So if we can't get it for everybody, then let's at least prove that it is a viable concept here in New York.
- [55:31]
Crystal Ball
I mean, really Interesting to hear that. It seemed like there were a lot of ladies there. So I'll let you weigh in on whether there was, in fact, a bit of a gender imbalance here, perhaps owing to the relative attractiveness of this gentleman. But also, what do they think that they could accomplish by coming out and doing this protest and supporting him as he's facing trial?
- [55:55]
Sagar Enjeti
I mean, as far as what they think is accomplishable just by that, I think it's up in the air. But I would say people there are really motivated by a broken health care system. People there were angry. They're frustrated. You know, one person said, when I asked her what she thought when she heard the news about Brian Thompson, she said, finally, something is being done.
- [56:17]
Crystal Ball
Wow.
- [56:18]
Sagar Enjeti
You know, there were a lot of doctors there, a lot of people who work in healthcare, but also just people who, you know, are angry about the healthcare system. You know, there were some Luigi fans. I mean, everyone's wearing green. Everyone had a lot of. Of Luigi stuff and paraphernalia and hats. One woman had knitted a free Luigi sweater. But everyone I spoke with was there because they think the health care system is criminal. Everyone seemed pretty serious to me. No one told me, I'm here because he's hot. Yeah, no, good point. That's very important. So in terms of the social effect of all of this, what struck you in terms of the way that people felt compelled to come out so they wanted to talk to you? Obviously, we heard a lot about disgust with the overall healthcare system, but how closely are they following the news and what do you think the political valence of most of the people who were in attendance were? Yeah, that's a good question. The people there were. They were following the case. They know what's happening. Political valence. They were definitely. I think there were a couple conservatives there. I know there was. Someone had pointed out a conservative YouTuber who was there, or a tiktoker, But, I mean, people were there on the left. There were, or I would say mostly. Mostly leftists out there. I didn't see any DSA people who I know are dsa, but there were people out there advocating for the New York Health act, which is something that the DSA has made a. Made a project out of.
- [57:55]
Crystal Ball
How did they grapple with the sort of moral questions involved here? You got a little taste of that in the clips that you shared of someone saying, well, I don't think murder is like, murder is wrong, but also this health care system is wrong and immoral as well. So how were people sort of balancing the way that they felt and thought about that.
- [58:18]
Sagar Enjeti
You know, I think in my estimation, they see the killing of Brian Thompson as not entirely dissimilar from someone who kills their spouse in self defense. I mean, there was. I'm sure everyone remembers the Emerson poll asking to what extent people found the murder acceptable. Something like 58% said totally unacceptable. Everyone else was somewhere between somewhat unacceptable and completely acceptable. I mean, that's a lot of people who, it seems to me think that being a health insurance CEO means you're some kind of criminal. Which is why a lot of people in the crowd, their big goal. When I ask them what they hope for, what they hope the outcome of the trial will be, A lot of people said jury nullification, which if you don't know, is basically when the jury says, yeah, he did the crime, he would be guilty. But it's not that simple. So not guilty. Well, I'm really interested. So in terms of the protest and others, as you were talking about, I know you follow the case as well. What are some of the other legal hurdles that Luigi faces now in terms of the procedural and eventual lead up to trial? Yeah. Something that his attorneys highlighted is just the complexity of the three cases because he's actually facing a trial in Pennsylvania, where he was captured. He's facing a trial in New York, and then he's facing a federal trial, which he might be eligible for death. So it's up in the air. I think we have. There is another hearing next month, and I think that's at federal court. And the next New York appearance will be in June, I believe. But I don't think anyone really knows what's gonna happen at this point.
- [60:06]
Crystal Ball
So these are separate charges that he's facing in state court in Pennsylvania, state court in New York and federal court as well.
- [60:13]
Sagar Enjeti
Believe.
- [60:13]
Crystal Ball
So what is the next that we will see from Luigi? When is his next appearance scheduled to be? And was there anything noteworthy from this particular appearance that people should know about?
- [60:25]
Sagar Enjeti
Not that I'm aware of. I haven't read all the details of what happened in the hearing.
- [60:32]
Crystal Ball
It's probably just pretty standard pretrial stuff, I would imagine.
- [60:37]
Sagar Enjeti
But the next appearance is next month in federal court. Got it.
- [60:41]
Crystal Ball
All right. Well, Spencer, thank you for being on the ground for us. It's very interesting to hear what you all had to appreciate it. Yeah, I appreciate it. It's great to see you.
- [60:47]
Sagar Enjeti
Thank you. Great seeing you. Thank you guys so much for watching, for bearing with my voice. It's been struggling throughout this one. We'll be back here tomorrow and then we'll see you.
- [61:11]
Crystal Ball
The battlefield is set, the stakes are high, the only thing standing between you and victory.
- [61:17]
Sagar Enjeti
Nothing.
- [61:18]
Crystal Ball
Ascend to the pinnacle of gaming greatness with Lenovo Legion laptops, Towers and the new award winning Legion go the world first officially licensed handheld powered by SteamOS, Legion relentlessly pushes gaming technology forward with towers built for raw untamed power laptops with best in class AI tuning that sharpen your reflexes and the Legion Go, a handheld for serious gaming on the go.
- [61:45]
Sagar Enjeti
Stay ahead with lightning fast responsiveness on.
- [61:47]
Crystal Ball
A stunning 16 inch PureSight display. Keep your cool with cold cold front thermal technology engineered for marathon sessions and with all day battery life. The game never stops until you say so.
- [62:00]
Sagar Enjeti
So check out lenovo.com legion Lenovo Lenovo.
- [62:06]
Crystal Ball
Empowering Creators Everywhere.
- [62:10]
Sagar Enjeti
During tax season, your sensitive info does a lot of traveling to places you can't control, stopping off at payroll, your accountant or tax preparer, and countless other data centers on its way to the irs. Any of them can expose you to identity theft because they all have the info on your W2. Just the ticket for criminals to steal your identity. No wonder the IRS reported tax fraud due to identity theft went up 20% last year. You need Lifelock. They monitor millions of data points per second and alert you to threats you could miss if your identity is stolen. LifeLock's US based restoration specialists will fix it, backed by the million dollar protection package and restoration is guaranteed or your money back. Don't let identity thieves take you for a ride. Get Lifelock protection for tax season and beyond. Join now and save up to 40% your first year. Call 1-800-LIFELOCK and use promo code iheart or go to lifelock.com iheart for 40% off. Terms apply. Hey, Janice Torres here and I'm Austin Hankwitz. We're the hosts of Mind the Business Small Business Success Stories produced by Ruby Studio and Intuit QuickBooks. Catch up on seasons one and two and join us for a brand new season of the podcast as we talk to small business owners about how they manage and grow their businesses with the help of platforms like Intuit QuickBooks. Listen to mind the Small Business Success Stories on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.