← Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
2/26/26: Trump Humiliates MAHA RFK Jr, Hakeem Caught Funneling AIPAC Money, AI Midterm Wars Breakout
01:17:34
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- [00:00]
Ryan Grim
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Then she says, have you seen a photo of my son? And I'm like, who is this person?
- [00:09]
Dave Dayen
Welcome to the boys and Girls podcast. Arranged marriage is basically a reality show
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Ryan Grim
and you're auditioning for your soulmate. And who's judging? Only your entire family. I sacrificed myself to this ancient tradition,
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Dave Dayen
hoping to find love the right way. And instead I found chaos, copy comedy,
- [00:28]
Ryan Grim
and a lot of cringe.
- [00:29]
Zaid Jilani
Listen to boys and Girls on the
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Dave Dayen
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Ryan Grim
Hey, everyone, it's Emily Simpson and Shane Simpson from the Legally Brunette podcast.
- [00:41]
Dave Dayen
Each week we're bringing you true crime through a legal lens.
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Ryan Grim
Whether you want all the facts on the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie or you still need to wrap your head around the Diddy verdict, we're breaking it all
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Dave Dayen
down step by step.
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Zaid Jilani
And we're not just lawyers.
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Dave Dayen
We're also husband and wife. It makes for some pretty entertaining episodes.
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Ryan Grim
Listen to Legally Brunette on the iHeartRadio
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Dave Dayen
app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:06]
Zaid Jilani
Fourteen years in prison for killing a young woman. A 15 year sentence for a crash
- [01:11]
David Hogg
that caused three deaths.
- [01:13]
Dave Dayen
Twelve and a half years for killing
- [01:15]
Zaid Jilani
a child and critically injuring her mother. All true stories, all caused by marijuana impaired drivers.
- [01:23]
Dave Dayen
No matter what you tell yourself, if you feel different, you drive different.
- [01:29]
David Hogg
So if you're high, just don't drive.
- [01:33]
Ryan Grim
Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council.
- [01:35]
David Hogg
Hey, guys, Sager and Krystal here.
- [01:37]
Ryan Grim
Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.
- [01:44]
David Hogg
This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist every anywhere else.
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Ryan Grim
So if that is something that's important to you, please go to breaking points.com Become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.
- [02:01]
Dave Dayen
We need your help to build the
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David Hogg
future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breakingpoints.com
- [02:09]
Ryan Grim
so we had a Maha Center Surgeon General pick who was taking a grilling yesterday in the Senate. So this is Casey Means, who is a physician, but she is not currently licensed and she also did not finish her surgical residency. So those are things that came up in the hearings. But also her views on a variety of subjects and her apparent conflicts of interest were also very significant here. She's a sort of like a wellness influencer. She's also an entrepreneur. She has this medical device that she runs, runs the company for in any case. The first clip I want to show you here is a Republican Senator Cassidy, who is questioning her intently and he's a physician as well who is questioning her intently on her views regarding vaccines and whether there is any vaccine link to autism. Let's take a listen to that.
- [02:58]
Zaid Jilani
We've had an outbreak of whooping cough in Louisiana. Vaccine preventable disease. Children have actually died from it. Think about it. A child about the age of your child dying from a vaccine preventable disease. And some have been scared to vaccinate their children because they've been told incorrectly that vaccines cause autism. Do you believe that vaccines, whether individually or collectively, contribute to autism?
- [03:25]
Ryan Grim
Senator Cassidy, you're a physician. I'm a physician. The reality is that we have an autism crisis that's increasing and this is devastating to many families. And we do not know as a medical community what causes autism. The administration has just committed a huge amount of funding to look at the exposome of all environmental factors that could be contributing to autism. And until we have a clear understanding of why kids are developing this at higher rates, I think we should not leave any stones unturned.
- [03:58]
Zaid Jilani
There's been a lot of evidence showing that they're not implicated. Do you not accept that evidence?
- [04:03]
Ryan Grim
I do accept that evidence. I also think that science has never settled and I think that the effort to look at comprehensive, cumulative exposures of our exposome into what is causing autism is important. And I look forward to seeing those results and sharing the best public health information with the American people. So she obviously refuses there to rule out a link between autism and vaccines. This theory is widely discredited and, you know, so my mind is open. You know, we've got to continue to explore which it just, you know, it shows you kind of what corner of the health and wellness universe she comes from. And he asked Orion a bunch of questions about various vaccines. You know, would you recommend to a mother that her child get the measles vaccine? And she couldn't just come out and say, you know, she, she had to sort of spin and couldn't give just like straightforward answers on any of this stuff.
- [04:55]
Dave Dayen
Yeah, the measles one is killing me. Like, are we really, like, come on. Have we really forgotten that measles can be, you know, damaging and deadly? Like, what are you. Yeah, what are we doing here? Chris Murphy went after her about those conflicts of interest that you mentioned. Let's roll D1 the document from the FTC says this if you endorse a product through social media, your endorsement message should make it obvious when you have a relationship with the brand. Are you familiar with that? So, as you know, there is a pending complaint regarding your failure to adhere to those guidelines. I'll give you an example. So there's a prenatal vitamin called wenatal. Your filings before this committee show that you started receiving compensation in the spring of 2024. And yet in September of 2024, you posted a video saying that you had
- [05:59]
Zaid Jilani
no financial relationship to the company, just a big fan.
- [06:02]
Dave Dayen
And then in October, you said, not sponsored, just love these. But in fact, you have documentation before this committee that showed when you said those things, you had a financial relationship, you had already started receiving money from that company. So you weren't telling the truth when you said you were just a fan, you were actually receiving money. Correct.
- [06:30]
Ryan Grim
In any post where I said I am not receiving money, I had not been receiving money at that time.
- [06:34]
Dave Dayen
But you had received partnership fees for this particular prenatal vitamin. In fact, prior to September and October, you had posted partnership links in which you get compensated based upon click throughs.
- [06:49]
Zaid Jilani
Correct.
- [06:51]
Ryan Grim
I'm happy to look at whatever documentation you're talking about, but I do not. This is. It's incorrect and it's a false representation.
- [06:58]
Dave Dayen
Crystal, what is. Like, I don't understand how this is a conversation. Like if. If she's revealed that she was taking the money in the spring, by the fall, said she wasn't. Like, it sounds like you're caught. Yeah, okay, I'm busted. Like, how do you.
- [07:15]
Ryan Grim
He's got her dead to rights here.
- [07:16]
Dave Dayen
How's she sticking by her story?
- [07:18]
Ryan Grim
He's got her debt to rights here. And not just here. There was an investigation and he presses her on. On more of this stuff in. Out of 140 times where she promoted products on social media, she only disclosed. She failed to disclose her financial relationship in 79 of those times. And this is where I just. This whole crew utterly disgusts me. Because here's the thing. There are big problems with our. With our food system. There are big problems with our pharmaceutical, you know, testing regimes and like, the corruption. And that's one of the things they talk about. The, like, revolving door between the fda. True. But then you bring in these literal snake oil salesmen who are worse and more dishonest than the existing system. And so you're taking advantage of things that are real problems that people are genuinely concerned about. And you look around the country like, the country is deeply unhealthy. And then you put in a bunch of cranks who want to undercut the things that actually do work, like, you know, measles, vaccines, and then sell you a bunch of crap that isn't actually tested under the anything remotely approaching the standards of the, you know, the pharmaceuticals, like these supplements and crap they don't get. They hardly are tested or have to meet any sort of regulatory standard. They push this stuff and act like they're a better alternative to what we already have. You know, for me, the tell is the fact that none of these people are interested in universal health care, which would be the first place you would start if you actually wanted to improve the quality of care in this country. But none of them, you know, they all have this very libertarian, like, up by your bootstraps, up by your, you know, tallow oil or whatever, beef tallow approach to health. And then they're deeply dishonest about their own financial times ties. I'll give you another one with her. So her health tech company, it's called Levels, it's like glucose monitoring device and has probably already benefited from the fact that RFK Jr. Has been pushing this wearable tech. Now, she claims if she's, if she attains this position of Surgeon General, which I think is a little bit of a question mark here. But anyway, if she attains a position, she's going to, like, you know, not be involved in Levels and she's going to divest and blah, blah, blah. But we can already see the track record of the way she's abused the trust of, you know, people who follow her, who genuinely believe she has this sort of New Agey approach and that she's righting the wrongs of the traditional medical system. And so that, to me, that abuse of trust is just so gross.
- [09:46]
Dave Dayen
Yeah. And so Angela, also Brooks, senator from Maryland, also pressed her on some of this. Let's roll D2.
- [09:53]
Ryan Grim
In your newsletter, number 33, you acknowledge that Peak has sponsored you. Now, were you aware that this company was served notice under California's Proposition 65 for containing and failing to disclose that lead above the allowable amounts of carcinogen and reproductive toxin was present? I just want to repeat, I've worked with the Office of Government Ethics. I'm not going to be taking any. But we're talking about just the ones you've already. So this is. We're talking about conflicts. And I have been cleared by the Office of Government and Ethics through an exhaustive process. I have signed a letter that I will be fully compliant. And this is before, during and after the term. I take it very seriously and I'll work closely with them to make sure there are no conflicts. The point here is that you've received compensation from these companies, including Daily Harvest, where this company was subject to an investigation by the Food and Drug Administration after hundreds became seriously ill after consuming the product. And these are companies that you have received money from, they've been investigated, and you are railing out against pharmaceutical companies that you say are advertising these products that mislead the public. And yet you've received compensation from companies and you've promoted them in your newsletter. And you're doing the same thing the pharmaceutical companies are doing by advertising and influencing people for these products that have been deemed to be unsafe for the public.
- [11:19]
Dave Dayen
And Krystal, I think this is actually the kind of stuff that a lot of Maha people might be even willing to look past if they thought they were getting results. They say, oh, this is the mainstream media, the corrupt media coming at people who are trying to overturn the system. They didn't have a problem when Big Pharma was doing this. They didn't have a problem when the pesticide companies or the chemical companies were engaged in the revolving door. All of a sudden, when our movement comes along now, all of a sudden they get concerned about conflicts of interest and corruption. I think they might be willing to even indulge some of those arguments from people that they trust, like Casey or RFK Jr. But they're not getting what they want either. And I think that is huge. This was like just a lightning bolt to the Maha movement to put up D3 here. One of the chief objections that the Maha crowd has is to Roundup is to this carcinogenic pesticide herbicide that is used extraordinarily liberally on American cops, I mean, American crops, and that a lot of research suggests is carcinogenic at certain levels. So it's one thing for that, you know. And in fact, RFK Jr. You know, successfully won a multi hundred million dollar lawsuit against Monsanto, which is now owned by Bayer, for the way that it was using and disclosing the risks around Roundup and this glyphosate. Along comes the Trump administration and says not only are we not going to kind of go to war against Roundup and glyphosate, but we are going to use the Defense Production act, which is a kind of 1950s era law that allows the Pentagon to legally mandate that a business produce something. Hegseth is threatening to use the Defense Production act on anthropic to legally mandate them to allow the Pentagon to use CLAUDE for its autonomous armed drones and for mass surveillance. Like they're trying to use this DPA on Claude. But they did use the DPA on Bayer and told Bayer, you must produce this product that the Maha moms think is killing people. And because they are mandating that you produce it, then you're gonna have some level of legal immunity.
- [14:01]
Ryan Grim
That's right.
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Dave Dayen
For the production of this. So not only are you not kind of going to war against it, you are actively siding with them. This came after the EPA named chemical lobbyists to one of its top positions and there were a number of other glaring sirens that the old industry was actually still in place here. But this one has like, this one has people absolutely freaking out. Times quotes A Turning Point USA Amaha podcaster saying, like, I'm done. Like, I can't persuade these women to vote for Republicans in the midterms when you're doing stuff like this. So that's my take. Like, I think they'd be willing to look past all of the garbage and the corruption and the, oh, there's lead in this vitamin that she was pushing. It's like, yeah, it happens. But to do this on top of all that, like, I'm sure it's check please for a lot of these women. What, what, what, what do you think?
- [15:02]
Ryan Grim
Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, I will say I, I think you're correct that they would be willing to overlook or just not dig into and just feel like, oh, this is just a smear campaign against her because she's trying to overturn the system. I will say, as someone who, you know is in the overturn the system camp, that one thing I have learned is that you actually have to hold your people to a higher standard because you can't expect going to be even handed when it comes to insiders versus outsiders. So, you know, there may be a legitimate critique there that, you know, previous people who had various compromise interests with the pharmaceutical industry or whatever, they didn't get the same level of scrutiny. I'm not saying that's the case or not, but I would be certainly be open to that argument. But I think if you are going to understand what is required to actually make change to entrenched interests, whether it's, you know, big food or big chemicals or big pharma, you are going to have to be, yes, you are going to have to hold yourself to a higher standard. You are going to have to meet a higher bar. You are going to have to be perfect. Just as Zoran Mamtani in the way that they're like, you know, trying to turn a snowball fight into a scandal in New York City, how aggressively they will come at you. But putting that aside, you know, on this specific issue of glyphosate, it kind of reminds me of like the. It's like the Epstein Files moment for the podcast Bros. It's sort of like that for the Baha Moms, where it's just like, I can't come up with a colorable rationale that's not just the same old standard issue industry corruption. And then all of your heroes who five seconds ago, before they were actually RFK Jr. I think there was a report that even came out during this administration sounding the alarm about glyphosate. But then the moment that Trump says, no, we're doing this, they're like, okay, well, we understand and we get it and we support it and we stand by it. She got asked, Kasey Means got asked in this hearing, I think by Tim Kaine specifically about this issue. And her answer was effectively like, well, it's complicated. And, you know, I don't think that's gonna satisfy anyone. It's very clear what's going on here. You want the job, you want the access, you want the power, you want whatever else that entails. And so whatever principles you had previously, like many before you, like Tulsi Gabbard before you, you're willing to say, well, you know, I see it differently now. Now it's before it was clear, now it's cloudy. Now it's complicated.
- [17:14]
Dave Dayen
To make Casey Means and RFK Jr defend Roundup is tantamount to when he made RFK Jr like, eat McDonald's on the. On the airplane. It's like a gang initiation. The only thing that could be worse, like, literally spraying roundup on the McDonald's, like, eat it.
- [17:33]
Ryan Grim
Wasn't he very involved in, like, Hudson river cleanups and weren't you tired?
- [17:36]
Nida Alam
Yeah.
- [17:37]
Dave Dayen
He's founded the Riverkeepers a tremendous Ray
- [17:39]
Ryan Grim
the roundup on the McDonald's and throw it in the Hudson river and. And you can bet RFK Jr would be there to be like, I understand why. Yeah, I support this. Now. This is fine. It's just no principle. And this is the way that a lot of people in D.C. think, because they view it like, okay, but if I don't play the game and, like, do this thing, then whatever other plans Casey means has or RFK Jr has or whatever, I'm not going to have a chance to do those. And ultimately it's just a road, especially under Trump, who seems to delight in finding highly specific ways to humiliate his underlings and force them to abandon any core principles that they ever claim to hold that would give them some sort of independence from him. Like that is I think something that he very strategically, you know, attempts to, to do. Like he will, he will identify, okay, what is this person's like if they have some sort of principle they're trying to hold on to, how do I destroy that so that then they're just nothing but a loyalist to me because that's all he wants.
- [18:38]
Dave Dayen
And also it's useless and illegal to use the Defense Production act for this purpose. He claimed that it's an emergency, like a national security emergency because we don't have enough food in the United States. That, that and that this is to protect the food supply. Are you serious? We're starving here. We don't have enough food. We're okay. Like you didn't actually have to do this.
- [19:02]
Ryan Grim
That's not one of them. Yeah. Now the quality of the food we could talk about, the price of the food we could certainly talk about, but just the quantity of it is not an.
- [19:11]
Dave Dayen
And Republican Congress is trying to push through legislation that would give bear immunity around these RFK Jr. Kind of led challenges that got pushed back by environmental groups. They're now trying to put it into the farm bill. This is crazy. This is crazy. So the environmental groups to the Maha Mountains, like what did you expect? This is who they are like. But you know, RFK Jr. He literally sued them. I don't blame them for believing that this guy who sued them over this and won actually would fight for it.
- [19:50]
Ryan Grim
Yeah, I mean I think a lot of this really coalesced around the COVID and vaccines and you know, that's where the, that energy really coalesced this movement and moved it very quickly from. You know, it used to be that anti vax sentiment was more located on the left left and you know, that was some particular like left wing crankery around like, like hippies and you know, wealthy liberals in LA and stuff like that. And yeah, now they, because of COVID that all realigned like that cranky crank part of the, the liberal movement realigned into the right. And so now I'd say they're kind of like, I guess they're up for grabs. You know, probably just kind of nihilistic at this point, to be honest with you. But I think there's an opening. If you had a candidate on the Democratic side who was embracing, you know, Medicare for all and truly embracing changes to our food system and made that a priority and health and fitness. Because it's not that there's no point there, even with regard to, like, medical autonomy. It's not that there's no point there whatsoever. You know, I think obviously there's a bunch of junk science around vaccines that's just utter and complete nonsense. It's like, like you said on, like, measles and stuff. I mean, it's just utterly destructive. And we're beginning to see the devastating impact of more and more people opting out of taking any of these vaccines. But so I guess there's, you know, there's an opening there. We'll see. We'll see if anyone's able to, with a more legitimate program, capture their imagination in the future.
- [21:24]
Nida Alam
All right.
- [21:25]
Dave Dayen
And also, so we went a little bit long. We're going to save the SAVE act, the Make American Elections Great Again explainer, maybe. We'll hopefully get to that tomorrow. But up next, we've got Dave Dayan and David Hogg to talk about this incredible story of a candidate, a Democratic candidate in North Carolina who swore off AIPAC money and yet is getting AIPAC money. Anyway. We'll explain the various loops and loopholes that we're able to track this money through. And getting into the race, which now is it's Anita Lam versus Valerie Boucher. That'll be election is on Tuesday in North Carolina. So stick around for that. Almost 30 years together, four kids and some of reality TV's most unforgettable moments.
- [22:12]
Ryan Grim
We know a thing or two about living life out loud. We're taking you behind the scenes in
- [22:16]
Dave Dayen
our new podcast, Between Us with me,
- [22:18]
Zaid Jilani
Heather debrow, and me, Terry debrow. Between Us isn't about perfect lighting or curated Instagram grids.
- [22:25]
Dave Dayen
It's the unfiltered behind closed doors conversations you wish you could eavesdrop on. Equal parts smart, funny, and a little bit scandalous. Every week, Heather will bring you an unapologetic take on the headlines, the trends and the cultural moments everyone's texting about. And Terry will deliver insider beauty, health and wellness insights you won't find on Tik Tok. Together, we'll tell the stories, spill the secrets, and share the hacks that keep life, marriage and everything in between feeling fresh and fun. We may live in a gated community, but there's zero gatekeeping here and plenty of did they just say that? Moments. Listen to Between Us on the IHEARTRADIO app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know Roald Dahl, the writer who thought up Willy Wonka, Matilda and the bfg. But did you know he was also a spy?
- [23:13]
Ryan Grim
Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been.
- [23:16]
Dave Dayen
Our new podcast series, the Secret World of Roald Dahl is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary, controversial life. His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans.
- [23:27]
Nida Alam
What?
- [23:28]
Dave Dayen
And he was really good at it. You probably won't believe it either.
- [23:31]
Ryan Grim
Okay, I don't think that's true.
- [23:33]
Dave Dayen
I'm telling you, the guy was a spy. Did you know Dahl got cozy with the Roosevelts, played poker with Harry Truman, and had a long affair with a congresswoman? And then he took his talents to Hollywood, where he worked alongside Walt Disney and Alfred Hitchcock before writing a hit James Bond film. How did this secret agent wind up as the most successful children's author ever? And what darkness from his covert past seeped into the stories we read as kids? The true story is stranger than anything he ever wrote. Listen to the Secret World of Roald Dahl on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [24:06]
Ryan Grim
Usually on this podcast, We'll Kill youl, we talk about the diseases, infections, and biological threats that can make us really sick. But right now, we're doing something a little different. We're stepping back and looking at what the human body needs to keep going.
- [24:19]
Nida Alam
When you consider what we know about
- [24:21]
Ryan Grim
sleep in humans, there's one rule that comes out.
- [24:23]
Dave Dayen
We are predictably unpredictable sleepers.
- [24:27]
Ryan Grim
We're talking about why sleep works the way it does, why our bodies don't follow neat rules, and why modern life makes rest so hard to come by. The second half of our series takes us to the digestive system with a multi part series on what happens after we eat. Okay, I just have to say that all of my favorite words, apparently are digestive words.
- [24:45]
Dave Dayen
Yes.
- [24:45]
Ryan Grim
Sphincter, peristalsis, duodenum. It's fascinating, it's funny, and it matters so much more than you think. Episodes of our new series run from January 20 through February 17, with new episodes every Tuesday on the Exactly Right Network. Listen to this podcast will kill you as part of the Exactly Right Network. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts,
- [25:08]
Dave Dayen
AIPAC and AI are both swamping House elections as we head into. Next week will be the first. Next Tuesday will be the first kind of primary of the 2026 season. To talk about that, we're gonna be joined by two Davids, David Dayan and David Hogg. David Dayan is the executive editor of the American Prospect. David Hogg is the head of Leaders We Deserve, which is participating in a lot of these primaries around the country. Dae and let's put a two up there just because David, Dan and I have been doing a bunch of reporting on the kind of secret AIPAC primary effort going on in Illinois. And we'll talk about that kind of on the back half of this program. We're also gonna be joined by Nita Alam, who I interviewed, I pre taped an interview yesterday with her and we'll attach that to the end of this. So I want to start with actually Nita because it's an incredible case here. Let's start with you, David Hogg, because you guys have endorsed Nita. Alum. So she ran in 2022 against Valerie Fousshi. Do you say it Foushi or Fouchier?
- [26:15]
David Hogg
Foushee Fuchi.
- [26:17]
Dave Dayen
I've been doing Foushi. It's tough. So she ran against Fousci in 2022. More than $2 million of APAC money comes into that race and a bunch of crypto money as well, I think from Sam Bankman Fried. And she wins the race. Kind of close, but I think nine
- [26:36]
Zaid Jilani
points or so is nine point margin
- [26:38]
David Hogg
with a crowded field.
- [26:40]
Dave Dayen
Crowded field. Since then there's been a little redistricting, so it's actually a little bit more progressive. And my understanding is that if that 2022 race were run in this new district, she actually wins. So like. And also Fushi has done very little fundraising. I was checking it last night. I think she raised less than $550,000 for this cycle, which is for an incumbent. She was outraised by Nida Alam, who just launched her race in December.
- [27:07]
David Hogg
Yeah, I mean, Fushi is freaking out so much. I got a text, a screenshotted text from Fushi to another member of Congress who's a friend of mine, where she's saying, this group of leaders we deserve is coming after me. Please help me out, send me money. And of course that member wasn't going to, but that was literally less than a week ago that she is currently texting members of Congress freaking out. And I think it shows the weakness that some of these incumbents are in. When you're propped up by aipac, you don't actually have to be that strong of a campaigner to win a lot of the time, especially if it's a crowded primary and you don't need to win by that much. In this case we're dealing with a different district that also has had some of the most Doge cuts of any congressional district in the country with a
- [27:44]
Dave Dayen
much more this Durham area like yeah,
- [27:46]
David Hogg
the Raleigh Durham like area. And on top of that the district because of the redistricting as you mentioned is significantly more South Asian than it was previously as well. And we're dealing with an electorate that is incredibly fed up with the state of the party right now.
- [28:01]
Dave Dayen
That's interesting that she is going for members of Congress cuz that's like low hanging fruit.
- [28:06]
David Hogg
Less than two weeks before her.
- [28:07]
Dave Dayen
Less than two weeks.
- [28:08]
Zaid Jilani
Well it wasn't just members, it was publicly. So you know Fuchi, like many candidates, particularly ones who are desirous of super PAC money, has a red box. And you know what a red box is? That's a section of their website where
- [28:23]
Dave Dayen
they sort of with a literal red
- [28:24]
Zaid Jilani
box around it where they sort of soft coordinate with super PACs and say here's what voters need to know in this district. And she changed the language on her red box right before all this money came in. And previously it just had sort of a generic message and then you could almost see the four alarm fire in the red box. It was voters need to immediately hear that like stop waiting that Nida Allam is getting, getting a million dollars from dark money and Valerie Fushi won't be bought.
- [29:00]
David Hogg
Hilarious.
- [29:01]
Zaid Jilani
Yeah, it was like such an urgent message and now what we've seen in the week since is that those super PACs have delivered.
- [29:10]
Dave Dayen
Valerie Fushi won't be bought. Please dump millions of dollars into this.
- [29:14]
Zaid Jilani
Please spend this money to tell people that I won't be bought.
- [29:17]
Dave Dayen
So we can put up E1 here. This is a tweet from Dave, Dave Dayen where you, where you kind of spell out the how, how badly she was actually getting outspent which is extremely unusual for an incumbent. Until this AI quote AI Safety super pac which is funded by Anthropic came in. They've now dropped $1.3 million into the room. Six up to 1.6. It just keeps going. $1.6 million. And there's another pack that is called the Article 1 pack that has come in and looks like so far they've publicly said that they're going to do 600,000. Might be more if they can make it work. And so I wanted to talk about this pack because this is an incredible one. So Fushi in. So she got the $2 million in APAC money. She then takes a bit of a turn after the genocide starts in Gaza and says that she endorses the Block the Bombs act, which is kind of the Progressive Caucus's kind of more mild version of conditioning aid to Israel. And then Liz Summer said she's not going to take AIPAC money.
- [30:34]
Zaid Jilani
Yeah, I would not necessarily call it taking a turn as I would being turned. So there was a lot of grassroots pressure in the district. And the impetus for her saying I reject this money was a town hall in the district where she was confronted over meeting with Netanyahu on a congressional delegation and also the previous support for AIPAC money in 2022. And she said, well, look, I'm not doing that anymore. And I even heard behind the scenes that she was discouraging AIPAC from doing unbranded fundraisers for her, like she. She actually was, at least for a time when probably when she thought she wasn't going to have a primary candidate. She for a time was really seemed sort of committed to this. And. And now we want you take us to where we are today.
- [31:26]
Dave Dayen
Well, let's. Before we do the reveal of how the APAC money is getting into the district. Now, why did you guys get in? Like, what made you get into this particular race? Because you, as you're mapping out the limited resources that you have, you know, it's sizable, but it's not infinite. What made you pick this one? Because I've heard the argument from some people that, like, hey, Foushi, because she was able to be pressured at the grassroots level and she got better, like, we should reward that by re electing her and so that it tells other candidates, right, come our way and we'll welcome you rather than, you know what, we're going to take you out anyway.
- [32:05]
David Hogg
Ultimately, Nita's going to be here for the long haul, a lot longer than Fushi Nita also in this district, what we saw was that for us, it's not just a matter of whether or not somebody's taking money from aipac. Of course we're going to support candidates who are against that, like Nita. But it's also the fact that Fushi was taking ridiculous amounts of corporate money as well, crypto stuff. And what happened here was when Fu Xi was pressured on taking that corporate money, you know what her defense of it was was, well, these are corporations that are in my district, so I'm happy to take it. Which is an absurd, you know, logic to use here. Like, let's press this further. Let's say that There is an ICE detention center that Core Civic or Geo Group, you know, runs in Fu Xi's district. Is she going to start taking money from private prisons? Yeah, let's say that there is that. Smith and Wesson. Let's say that Smith and Wesson. Let's say that Smith and Wesson, the same company that manufactured the AR15 used in park, moves to her district. The same AR15s that are used around the country by mass shooters. If they're in her district, does that mean she's going to start taking money from Smith and Wesson? Like where, where do you draw the line here? Because if it's all of a sudden saying, well, you know, I'm not going to take money from aipac, but I'm fine taking it from Lockheed Martin, for example. The people that are helping to make the arms that are being used against children in Gaza, is it really that much different in the first place?
- [33:20]
Zaid Jilani
Can I say a quick thing about the AI aspect of this before we go into the APAC part? So NIDA Alam gets into the race in December, right? December 9th, very late.
- [33:32]
David Hogg
We started working through July by a March primary.
- [33:34]
Zaid Jilani
Right. But almost at the exact same time, there is this commission that Hakeem Jeffries puts together on AI and the innovation economy.
- [33:46]
Dave Dayen
That was December 11th.
- [33:47]
Zaid Jilani
Yeah, yeah, almost the exact same time
- [33:49]
Dave Dayen
that I think December 11th. She launched December 9th. He puts her on the commission, but it was already, but it was already known. People knew that she was gonna lose
- [33:56]
Zaid Jilani
it, that she was gonna get in. And Jeffries appoints Fushi as one of the co chairs.
- [34:01]
Dave Dayen
Just three.
- [34:02]
David Hogg
Do you think that's because of her expertise in technology?
- [34:05]
Zaid Jilani
Well, she represents the Research triangle. It's clearly a high tech area, innovation heavy area. But wait, so then she's bumping along and she, you know, There are these PACs that come out, you know, people, grassroots packs, like Leaders We Deserve. But also this PAC called American pr, which we revealed is specifically designed to counter AIPAC influence in a bunch of races. They put in almost $800,000 into this race.
- [34:34]
Dave Dayen
Backing NIDA alum.
- [34:35]
Zaid Jilani
Backing NIDA alum. But last week, when FUSHU is being outspent 10 to 1, there's a poll that goes into the district. Public Policy Polling, which is based in North Carolina, puts this poll out. I've seen the screenshots of it. It does. Head to head, Alam versus Fushi. And those functionally are the only two candidates in this primary. But it also asks attitudes towards AI among members of the district. And we don't know who spent and it has not been released. And I've asked Public Policy Polling many times if they're going to release this poll. But clearly the amount of money being poured in, which has nothing to do with AI. These ads of course shows two things. Number one, that poll probably showed some bad news for Valerie Fushi and number two, it probably showed some bad news on attitudes toward AI or otherwise they would have elevated that she's the head of the AI Commission.
- [35:34]
Dave Dayen
And this is a good how Washington works story for people like the House Financial Services Committee is referred to internally as a, as a money committee, for instance, because you put people on there who are in vulnerable races and need to raise a lot of money and because you're now regulating the banks and the private equity and hedge funds, you can then go to the banks and shake them down for money. And so what Akeem Jeffries did here is he created a task force that's going to write Democratic policy on AI, Puts her on it, also put Josh gottheimer on it, who's a voracious like
- [36:10]
Zaid Jilani
historic who has also gotten money from the same AI based and as a
- [36:14]
Dave Dayen
Microsoft executive, so has those links. So it's a signal give money to this person. And I think you guys have been vindicated in your analysis here by the two plus million dollars that she's already taken because people were like, no, she's doing better now. Leave her alone.
- [36:33]
David Hogg
The real test of somebody's values is when they're under pressure. And we knew that if she was willing to accept this money when she was running in her first race, when she came under pressure, that there would be more super PACs, specifically these super PACs like the AI one, you know, this article one stuff, everything like that that came in and supported her, that if she really was committed to that, she wouldn't be taking that money and she wouldn't be facing such ferocious attacks. That wouldn't be landing as much because it wouldn't be true.
- [36:58]
Nida Alam
Right.
- [36:59]
Zaid Jilani
So one other thing on that is that there's, there's actually a live fight in the district around AI and specifically around an AI data center in a city small town called Apex that would use as much electricity as the entire town. And there's been pretty vociferous pushback on that. And in other parts of the district where there's actually a moratorium in a place called Chatham county. But in Apex, hundreds of constituents sent an open letter to both candidates saying will you oppose this data center number one and number two, will you not take Any money from AI and NIDA Alam signed that, and Valerie Fuchi did not. Right. And so I think there is a potential for backlash here, at least among people in Apex who are very agitated about the placement of this.
- [37:55]
Dave Dayen
Do you have a sense of how much this data center controversy in the district is playing in the race so far?
- [38:00]
David Hogg
I'm sure it plays a significant role. Obviously, when we did our own polling in the race, we. We didn't specifically ask about AI. We were trying to see, like, what is the pathway to victory. Because for leaders we deserve, we are not. We don't have an infinite amount of resources. We rely on 240,000 individual donors so that our candidates don't have to take corporate money, so that we can truly back them and not have them unilaterally disarmed. We saw a pathway for nita. We didn't ask about AI. But what I will tell you, I think is probably having just as much, if not a bigger impact is the fact that you simultaneously are dealing with a district where it has had some of the most doge cuts of any district in the country. And it has a very high number. It's one of the youngest congressional districts in the country. It has a very high number of recent college grads that we know right now have an unemployment rate of around 45% that feel like. And I'm sure that an AI data center is not going to jive well with them or the people who have their kids living at home right now after they graduate from UNC or whatever other schools are in the district because of automation and AI.
- [38:59]
Zaid Jilani
Interesting data point on that. In 2022, they moved the primary to May. It was after colleges had let out for the summer. This time it's in March. The college students will be there and likely be voting.
- [39:11]
David Hogg
And that was one of our first questions when we were looking at Nita back in June and July of 2025 was, how do we time this so that nobody else gets in the race, so that we don't have another situation where the field is fractured, and then it's way harder to have a pathway to victory. So it's just netta. And on top of that, are the college students actually going to be there? Because we've seen districts where in the past, I've seen polling where a candidate looks like they're going to win because we account for a lot of college students turning out. And then it turns out, oh, spring break, they're on spring break, or, oh, you know, it's summer break. And then they don't turn out and then the candidate loses. In this case, we looked at the polling, we looked at the redistricting, and we saw a huge opportunity to show and send a shockwave through the electoral system that if NITA wins here, I think will really send a chill down the spine of a lot of people in the establishment who historically have relied on corporations, relied on aipac and thought that they were safe because of that. And ironically that the thing that used to keep them the most safe is now the thing that makes them most vulnerable. We at leaders, we deserve our friends over at Justice Democrats, the Sunrise Movement and other groups. And obviously you all too are working to make the biggest asset these groups have, which is their money, their biggest liability. That gets harder with the shell packs, obviously. But what I don't think people like Hakeem Jeffries or Chuck Schumer realize is that Gen Z and Millennials are increasingly. We're almost a majority of the electorate at this point. We. I don't think they understand how much we vehemently hate politicians that take corporate money and appear to engage in insider trading. As a generation, we feel like the entire system has been bought and sold out from underneath us. And when these politicians take corporate money, I think for a lot of them, like Valerie Fousshee, they're like, what? They're in my district, it's totally fine. They don't understand what that tells voters, which is that you are effectively being bribed by these corporations.
- [40:55]
Zaid Jilani
You should talk about the article.
- [40:56]
Dave Dayen
One thing though, because, and I mentioned that she raised $550,000 more than 250,000. That was PACs, mostly corporate PACs, but some labor as well.
- [41:06]
Zaid Jilani
Fushi.
- [41:06]
Dave Dayen
Yeah. So yes, to your point, like even the tiny amount of money she raised, most of it was from corporate PACs. But yeah. So let's get the reveal on this article. One thing, because this is incredible. We've reported in the past 2024, AIPAC was using APAC, used a Pro Science Pack 314 action to like in Illinois, as Dan and I reported, they created these two fake packs, brand new packs. Chicago Women Elect Chicago Women. Big concern for APAC is gender parody and affordable Chicago now like aipac, literally biting off of Mamdani's affordability lag.
- [41:48]
David Hogg
That's how unapologetic they are. They have to hide where their money's coming from.
- [41:50]
Dave Dayen
Yeah, and then there's the.
- [41:52]
Zaid Jilani
And then they were coordinating donors through these unbranded fundraisers. And if you looked at the candidates they were supporting in these Illinois races. Laura fine in Illinois 9, Donna Miller in Illinois 2, and Melissa Bean in Illinois 8. They were sharing hundreds, hundreds of donors who had also donated in the past to aipac.
- [42:15]
David Hogg
Right, sure. It's just a coincidence, though.
- [42:16]
Zaid Jilani
Yeah, Right.
- [42:16]
Dave Dayen
So that's how you can figure out in Chicago and the Illinois area, you know that AIPAC is actually the one that's behind this.
- [42:22]
David Hogg
Right.
- [42:22]
Dave Dayen
They say they're unapologetic about their participation, just completely hiding it, which it's, you know, it's totally legal to participate in the political process. All we're asking is just, just do it with your chest out. Stand behind what you believe in. So that gets US to this Article 1 PAC. So its first spending was in New Jersey 11, which is the one that people probably remember. This is Ana Lilia Mejia and Tom Malinowski and the Lieutenant Governor of New Jersey, Tahesha Way. AIPAC was behind way. And so AIPAC spent millions tearing down Malinowski, and as you know from watching the show, they accidentally elected Mejia.
- [43:04]
Zaid Jilani
Right.
- [43:05]
Dave Dayen
Article one came in boosting Way, and people are like, what is this Article 1 pact?
- [43:10]
Nida Alam
This is.
- [43:10]
Dave Dayen
This is odd. So the second time it has ever spent any Money is this $600,000 on behalf of Fushi. Now, I've been told by sources, some with direct knowledge of this, that this is a Hakeem Jeffries pac, that Hakeem is guiding this.
- [43:29]
Zaid Jilani
And there were some signals of that during the New Jersey race. If you look back at how this article 1 PAC was formed and who it's associated with, a thing called Article 1 victory that has ties to the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, which is a leadership organization, essentially, and ties to a bunch of swing district members of Congress who are the type of people who the DCCC supports.
- [43:57]
Dave Dayen
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Ryan Grim
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Dave Dayen
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Zaid Jilani
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Dave Dayen
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Zaid Jilani
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Dave Dayen
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Zaid Jilani
Moments.
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Dave Dayen
Listen to between us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know Roald Dahl, the writer who thought up Willy Wonka, Matilda, and the bfg. But did you know he was also a spy?
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Ryan Grim
Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been.
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Dave Dayen
Our new podcast series, the Secret World of Roald Dahl is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary, controversial life. His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans.
- [45:18]
Nida Alam
What?
- [45:18]
Dave Dayen
And he was really good at it. You probably won't believe it either.
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Okay, I don't think that's true.
- [45:23]
Dave Dayen
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Nida Alam
When you consider what we know about
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Dave Dayen
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- [46:58]
Dave Dayen
Now, I've also been told by a source with knowledge of this that it is funneling APAC money. So instead of using these Elect Chicago Women pacs, Hakeem Jeffries is setting up a vehicle that is allowing AIPAC money to come through. And we know how they're doing it, thanks to Matthew Edey's reporting out of. Out of Chicago. So we can put up E3 here. So let's follow along because this is. This is fun to unpack. So Edie obtained two emails that were privately sent by AIPAC on August 21st and then again on September 15th. And what they were doing is they were raising money for Laura Fine, who's running in this Illinois 09, this kind of Chicago area district. And so the emails said, please support Laura Fine. So this. So now we know it's Apex, because AIPAC is saying, please support Laura Fine and do it through this hidden webpage that's called the Pro Israel Network. So it's a link that you can't really find unless APAC sends you directly there. So then we put up this Next. Put up E4 here. So basically, here are the emails they run through. So this is him obtaining the actual emails if you didn't believe him the first time. And so put up E5 here. And so then you go through the FEC filings, and he found that more than 150 of fines donations, which are $300,000. It worked. They funneled the money to AIPAC.
- [48:38]
Zaid Jilani
Often it's on the same day all this money comes in because it's a virtual fundraiser. And often, you know, Fine and other candidates are bundled in these emails, and you see the same amount of money going to the same candidates on the same day.
- [48:53]
Dave Dayen
And so they're using. And so you can put up the next. Put up the next element. So using this thing called Democracy Engine llc, which sometimes shows up in the fec, to funnel. To funnel the money through.
- [49:08]
Nida Alam
Right.
- [49:09]
Dave Dayen
And so.
- [49:10]
Zaid Jilani
And I've seen these too, by the way, and there are dozens of these virtual fundraisers. And this what they. So what this is generally being done for individual donations to the candidate itself. What you're saying is that this is a similar mechanism that's being used for a super.
- [49:25]
Dave Dayen
And we'll add this one in post because I didn't put it into the rundown. And so what they're doing is they also. AIPAC also sent directly to Hakeem Jeffries through this same process and using this Democracy Engine. So they funneled so there we have. And we'll put it up. We'll put it up here. The Jefferies Victory Fund. AIPAC sends directly through this process to the Jefferies Victory Fund. So then it raises and then Jefferies
- [49:57]
Zaid Jilani
gives to Article 1 PAC and an Article 1 PAC gives, you know, donates.
- [50:02]
Dave Dayen
Or there could be, there could be even another intermediary. But before it gets.
- [50:06]
Zaid Jilani
Well, there is, because I mean, what we know is the 350,000 that went to Tahitia Ray's race was raised from something called the Guzman foundation, which no one's ever heard of and no one knows anything about. So it could be the, that could be the fourth link in the chain. Right. So it's a fundraiser that goes to Jeffries. Jeffries then gives the Guzman foundation or something, some other shell that gives to Article one Pack. And then that Article one Pack raises the money for the ads or does the ads.
- [50:38]
David Hogg
It's a really dumb way of going about it like so over complicated and convoluted in general.
- [50:43]
Zaid Jilani
But it makes it hard to track and hard for people like us to understand where the money is actually coming from.
- [50:49]
David Hogg
Absolutely. I mean, that's the whole point. One thing to note too, that I think people need to. Should understand about why APACAN have such an effect as well when they give, when they bundle money for candidates as they're doing across Illinois, you know, and I gotta say, Illinois 9 is getting a lot of attention. Obviously. Cat's amazing, but there's also Robert Peters who's getting massively attacked on all sides by all special interests. He's got the trifecta of hell coming after him basically in Illinois too. And in that district, what we see is that the polling there, that it's really interesting because you have Illinois's nine with a, an electorate with way more people with masters and PhDs like Evanston. And then you have the second district that is a lot lower income, less higher rates of education. And the polling there moves much faster after AIPAC comes in and spends than it does in Illinois's 9th congressional district. But the point that I wanted to get at is that this bundling of money that they do, the reason it can have so much of an impact is because candidates, when they're spending on tv, right, get candidate rate that is legally required to be the lowest rate. And correct me if I'm wrong, but that's my understanding, it has to be the lowest rate, sometimes even less than,
- [52:01]
Zaid Jilani
sometimes 10 times as much for super PAC.
- [52:04]
David Hogg
But if it's a super PAC, where somebody says, okay, I'm going to give you $100,000 to United for Democracy Project, whatever that money. Those ads cost twice as much if it's an independent expenditure on broadcast or on TV a lot of the time. So that's why it has so much of an impact with that bundling of money. And it gives the candidates the plausible deniability to be like, oh, I didn't know that this was aipac, which is obviously bullshit, but it gives them that ability because it's not AIPAC directly giving them that money.
- [52:30]
Dave Dayen
And it goes even further. It also puts a dollar value on the secrecy that AIPAC cherishes because what they could have done is use Democracy Engine to send money directly to Valerie Fuchi, for instance. And then she. She needed the money, and then she could have gotten the preferential ad rates and done exactly how she wanted to do. But she had pledged not to take APAC money.
- [52:55]
Zaid Jilani
And these are the. These are. These kinds of unbranded fundraisers are the exact things that she apparently rejected.
- [53:02]
Dave Dayen
No, she said, don't do that.
- [53:03]
Zaid Jilani
That's what I was told.
- [53:04]
Dave Dayen
So instead.
- [53:04]
Zaid Jilani
Because she was mindful of the backlash.
- [53:06]
Dave Dayen
Right, so instead that you found these Jeffries.
- [53:08]
Zaid Jilani
That's right.
- [53:08]
Dave Dayen
Who then loops it back around to Article 1.
- [53:10]
Zaid Jilani
And so it's less impactful because it's more expensive to run those ads, but it allows to keep this wall of deniability up.
- [53:19]
David Hogg
It's an important to note, too, to think about what this means from Jeffrey's position as well. This is, you know, I think, of course, there's the AIPAC role here, as there is in so many of these races around the country. But you also got to put yourself in Jeffrey's shoes. His job is to try to protect his members so that he can keep his majority that he needs to be able to get to continue to, you know, be speaker of the House. And I think in combination with the attacks on all these incumbents, what he's trying to do in this race, what's fascinating to me about it is how late the spending is right now. It came in so late, it didn't come in a month ago when it could have actually had, I think, way more of an impact. It started coming in way later when presumably they saw polling that showed that Fu Xi was toast.
- [53:58]
Zaid Jilani
We're talking about $2.2 million in the final 11 days of the race. That's $200,000 a day.
- [54:05]
Dave Dayen
Nothing but these ads on TV.
- [54:08]
David Hogg
I think what we're seeing here is Jeffrey is trying to show his other members, look, I'm going to back you so that even if Fu Xi does lose, they feel like, well, I still want to vote for him because he's going to help protect me. Because once you're in, theoretically, he wants to protect you if you're going to vote for him. What's interesting about this whole dynamic, though, is if there are so many people that end up getting defeated by these incumbent challengers. Every one of our incumbent challengers that leaders we deserve is supporting outraged their opponent last quarter, and Justin Pearson outraced his opponent. I think it was nine to one against Steve Cohen. So that is obviously getting their attention. But what will be interesting to see out is two things. One of these incumbents who win, how does Jeffries try to reconcile with them? Right, because he obviously wants to continue being speaker. And how can they use that potentially to try to fend off future primary challengers from groups like aipac? Obviously, there's a trade to be made there. But on top of that, it's also a question of with the VRA coming up with that whole Supreme Court case, how does that end up changing Jeffrey's coalition if a lot of these districts that were created by the Voting Rights act no longer exist anymore?
- [55:10]
Zaid Jilani
I just think this is what makes the alum race so important because there's now a coalition. I mean, Alim in 2022 got $0 in outside spending from independent groups. This time she's got 1.5 million. And it's sort of cobbled together with
- [55:28]
Dave Dayen
a bunch of different organizations, coalitions coming
- [55:30]
Zaid Jilani
together, Working Families Party, Justice Democrats, this American Priorities Group, leaders, we deserve how
- [55:36]
Dave Dayen
much you drop in a couple of days.
- [55:38]
David Hogg
So I'm on the hard side, but last I checked in, it was about 250,000.
- [55:42]
Zaid Jilani
So there's parity here. There's some competitiveness here that we did not see in the last two cycles. Really, it was just sort of, you know, lambs to the slaughter, if you're talking about these organizations. And there was an attempt to do political education around this money is coming from aipac and this is what it means. Or this money is coming from crypto. But now there's still that. But there's also. And we've got your back with some actual firepower here. So that's why I think this race is so important. And if ALIM still prevails despite this last minute rush, it really does change the understanding and the conception of, you know, what these races are gonna look like going forward massively.
- [56:26]
David Hogg
I mean, it's I think that the entire, the sense that these incumbents have such a sense of entitlement, I think it's actually a huge asset for the progressive movement, ironically, of these challengers, because they are so self absorbed and obsessed with themselves that they tell themselves, I'm so great at being a member of Congress, I can't be defeated. That's why. That's what then results in them getting cocky and not fundraising. That's what results in them going out there and being like, oh, it's fine, like these challengers, I don't really need to worry about them. And then all of a sudden people like Valerie Fousci have a oh shit moment, you know, two weeks before the election are texting Joe Crowley kind of situation. Exactly. And what we're seeing too is because they're so focused on themselves, we've seen people like Steve Cohen compare Justin Pearson's challenge of him to Pearl harbor, for example, right? Then we go out there and we see somebody like Stephen lynch go out there at a Doge protest talking about all the Doge cuts against va. Theoretically a good thing, right? When somebody heckles him and says that you need to do more to fight back against Donald Trump, he says, I'm the member of Congress, not you, me. If you want to make that decision, you run for Congress. Leaders we deserve is happy to answer that call and light a fire under the asses of the Democratic establishment to force our party to be better. And the great thing about this moment is, unlike in 2018, when the progressive movement was much more spread out, it was much less coordinated, in many of these races, we are in lock step and we have managed to grow enough small dollar support from the movement that when we do come together, when Justice Dems comes in, when Leaders comes in, when American Priorities comes in, when all these other groups come together and we carefully select these races, we're not setting the precedent like, oh, progressives can't win. We're setting the precedent that when we come together, we win. And we are a real serious threat. So you better not take corporate money, you better not take support for aipac, or you're going to have a hell of a primary season ahead of you.
- [58:16]
Dave Dayen
It's going to be an interesting race on Tuesday, that's for sure. Last thing I wanted to ask you guys about is this, this news that apparently the reason that the Democratic National Committee doesn't want to release this autopsy that they did of the 2024 election is that it found that the Democratic support for the genocide in Gaza had A net negative effect. We don't know though, whether or not that was considered to be decisive by this autopsy or not because they're not revealing it. So we actually breaking points and drops. I put it together petition. We'll put it down at the bottom of the show notes here. Just calling on the dnc, just release this thing, let us see it. We're not telling you what to think about it, but let us see the autopsy. Preferably leak it to us first, but just make it public. Have you had any meetings with the DNC about this issue or this autopsy? What can you tell us about what you understand about this analysis and why they're keeping it private?
- [59:15]
David Hogg
Well, what I can tell you is two things. One, Ken Martin campaigned on releasing this.
- [59:20]
Dave Dayen
Yeah.
- [59:20]
David Hogg
And you were his and I was vice chair to him. I know that because I heard him say it a million times, that all of the million forms that we had to do when we were running as vice chairs and chairs and everything like that. So this is not something where it's like Ken said I'm going to do. By the way, they always refuse to call it an autopsy report because we're not dead yet is what they would say they called an after action report.
- [59:38]
Dave Dayen
Fine, give us the after action report.
- [59:40]
David Hogg
So that's one thing. It's not like Chair Martin went out there and said, I'm going to do this thing, but it's going to be kept private. He actually said, I'm going to release this and we're going to know why we lost. So release it. Don't go out there and claim you're going to do one thing and then not do it. The second thing is, I will tell you at our first meeting in the building of the DNC with all of the officers who were elected and everything, we're going through like basically some of the most preliminary findings of like why we lost the election, common sense things as you can imagine, that were in there. And one thing that I brought up in there was like I said, look, I know that you guys don't want to talk about this almost certainly, but we have to acknowledge what happened with Gaza and the fact that tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people, especially young people on college campuses, were losing their minds, incredibly upset, understandably, over what was happening. And I know you don't want to talk about it, but we have to. And I have to believe that if they're actually writing an autopsy report, right, they have to talk about that. There has to be some part of it. And they should Release it to have transparency. I mean, we're at rock bottom right now. We just lost to Donald Trump for the second time. What else do we have to lose? We might as well give the transparency of our vote to our voters, of what actually happened here. But here's the problem. Our party is addicted to losing our party. And what I mean by that in particular is that people like Hakeem Jeffries, people like Chuck Schumer, people, I would argue, like Ken Martin as well, would much rather keep basically everything as similar as possible to keep themselves in their own positions of power, whether it's in the Senate or in the House or the DNC or wherever else it is, instead of actually addressing who we are as a party to get us into a governing majority. Because if we want to win back the White House, if we want to win back the House, if we want to win back the Senate, there is no pathway to doing that without winning back young Americans that historically have voted for Democrats. And if we don't offer them something new and don't just change our messaging, but change who we are and address our courage problem as a party where we're just constantly afraid of our own shadow, we're not going to change that.
- [61:38]
Zaid Jilani
I mean, you're talking about the iron law of institutions, where your status within the institution is more important than the status of the institution within the broader ecosystem. I think that the Democratic Party weirdly discounts authenticity and honesty as a virtue and a value that voters might respond to. And this is a perfect example of just, we don't want to be honest with ourselves, let alone honest with the rest of the electorate about our own failings. And it just breeds this notion that you have something to hide. And it becomes a bigger problem than if you just rip the band aid off and say, yes, this is why we had a problem, and we need to be honest about this.
- [62:29]
David Hogg
Yeah. I mean, just release the damn report. Who knows how much of an impact it really will even have? But if you're going to say you're going to release it, and we have, we know we have a trust problem in the party. Just release it. We're already at rock bottom. Just show us what happened. Right.
- [62:40]
Dave Dayen
How much worse can it get?
- [62:41]
David Hogg
Like, how much worse can it get? The only way upward from here.
- [62:44]
Zaid Jilani
Well, but, but the obvious problem is that, you know, we have the presume if, if Democrats win in November, speaker of the House laundering money through a bunch of donors who don't want that report released also. That's what's going on A bunch of
- [62:58]
Dave Dayen
Republican billionaire donors, too, right? That's incredible.
- [63:01]
Zaid Jilani
Exactly. Yeah.
- [63:02]
Dave Dayen
That's a lot of. When you're talking about a lot of
- [63:04]
Zaid Jilani
the apac, there's a fascinating moment in the Laura Fine race where she was at a campaign forum and they asked the question, did you. Have you taken money from Trump donors? And of course, everybody in the race, a very busy field, said no. And Laura Fine very sheepishly goes, yes.
- [63:22]
David Hogg
She didn't lie.
- [63:23]
Dave Dayen
Yeah.
- [63:23]
David Hogg
Good for her.
- [63:24]
Zaid Jilani
Yeah. Honesty, right?
- [63:25]
Dave Dayen
All right, David, it's great to have you guys. By the way, David Dayan, executive editor of American Prospect. David Hogg with leaders we deserve and former ousted vice chair, indeed at dnc.
- [63:34]
David Hogg
We're coming back with a vengeance.
- [63:35]
Zaid Jilani
You sure are.
- [63:36]
Dave Dayen
Excellent. Well, great to have you guys both here.
- [63:38]
Zaid Jilani
All Right, thanks.
- [63:41]
Dave Dayen
Almost 30 years together, four kids, and some of reality TV's most unforgettable moments. We know a thing or two about living life out loud.
- [63:49]
Ryan Grim
We're taking you behind the scenes in
- [63:50]
Dave Dayen
our new podcast, Between Us with me,
- [63:53]
Zaid Jilani
Heather Debro, and me, Terry Debro. Between Us isn't about perfect lighting or curated Instagram grids.
- [63:59]
Dave Dayen
It's the unfiltered behind closed doors conversations you wish you could eavesdrop on. Equal parts smart, funny, and a little bit scandalous. Every week, Heather will bring you an unapologetic take on the headlines, the trends, and the cultural moments everyone's texting about. And Terry will deliver insider beauty, health and wellness inside insights you won't find on TikTok. Together, we'll tell the stories, spill the secrets, and share the hacks that keep life, marriage, and everything in between feeling fresh and fun. We may live in a gated community, but there's zero gatekeeping here and plenty of did they just say that? Moments. Listen to between us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know Roald Dahl, the writer who thought up Willy Wonka, Matilda, and the bfg. But did you know he was also a spy?
- [64:48]
Ryan Grim
Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been.
- [64:50]
Dave Dayen
Our new podcast series, the Secret World of Roald Dahl is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary, controversial life. His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans.
- [65:02]
Nida Alam
What?
- [65:02]
Dave Dayen
And he was really good at it. You probably won't believe it either.
- [65:05]
Ryan Grim
Okay, I don't think that's true.
- [65:07]
Dave Dayen
I'm telling you, the guy was a spy. Did you know Dahl got cozy with the Roosevelts, played poker with Harry Truman, and had a long affair with a congresswoman? And Then he took his talents to Hollywood, where he worked alongside Walt Disney and Alfred Hitchcock before writing a hit James Bond film. How did this secret agent wind up as the most successful children's author ever? And what darkness from his covert past seeped into the stories we read as kids? The true story is stranger than anything he ever wrote. Listen to the Secret World of Roald Dahl on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [65:41]
Ryan Grim
Usually on this podcast, We'll Kill youl, we talk about the diseases, infections and biological threats that can make us really sick. But right now, we're doing something a little different. We're stepping back and looking at what the human body needs to keep going.
- [65:53]
Nida Alam
When you consider what we know about
- [65:55]
Dave Dayen
sleep in humans, there's one rule that
- [65:57]
Ryan Grim
comes out we are predictably unpredictable sleepers. We're talking about why sleep works the way it does, why our bodies don't follow neat rules, and why modern life makes rest so hard to come by. The second half of our series takes us to the digestive system with a multi part series on what happens after we eat. Okay, I just have to say that all of my favorite words apparently are digestive words. Sphincter, peristalsis, duodenum. It's fascinating, it's funny, and it matters so much more than you think. Episode of our new series run from January 20 through February 17, with new episodes every Tuesday on the Exactly Right Network. Listen to this podcast will kill you as part of the Exactly Right Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So, Ryan, the sort of perfect setup for your interview with the candidate herself.
- [66:47]
Dave Dayen
Yes. So if, if you're just coming to this fresh, there's a good conversation that we just had with David Dayan and David Hogg about this race and the dynamics around it and others throughout the country. You can also just listen to this interview. We taped it yesterday. Since we recorded this interview, actually did a lot of more reporting about the money that we talk about in this conversation. But the gist of it is here. This is Nita Lam, running in North Carolina's 4th district. The election is this coming Tuesday. Joining us to discuss more of this is Nita Alam, a Durham county commissioner who is up for election election In North Carolina's 4th district this coming Tuesday, if I'm not mistaken. Welcome to Breaking Points. Thanks for joining us.
- [67:34]
Nida Alam
Yeah, thank you so much for having me back, Ryan.
- [67:36]
Dave Dayen
Yeah. So for, for folks who missed our conversation last time we spoke about you, you've jumped into a second race against Valerie Fucci, who's, who's now the incumbent. You and her squared off in 2022 in that election. APAC through, I don't remember if they did. I think they did it through their, their main super PAC, United Democracy Project, put more than $2 million into the race and they ended, they, they ended up pushing Valerie Fushi past you by about four points or something like so very, very close race. How much? Nine, oh, nine points. I remember it being a little bit closer. Nine points is still pretty close for getting more than $2 million dropped on your head at the down the stretch of the election. Now, so recently Fushi has been named to this three person Democratic task force that is charged with crafting what House Democratic policy is supposed to look like when it comes to artificial intelligence. And the way that these kinds of things work is that when a new issue arises, you kind of go outside of the committee system. I don't know why they even still have committees. Maybe you can tell me if you get back to Congress, if you get to Congress you can tell me what committees even do because whenever anything comes up, they create a new committee. Even though they've got ones that have been operating semi continuously for hundreds of years at this point. And so the three members on that committee are Fushi and they're appointed by Hakeem Jeffries just unilaterally. So it would be Fushi, Ted Lieu, who's a progressive in California. Almost every California Democrat is pretty friendly to the AI industry. And Josh Gottheimer, who is a New Jersey Democrat who is kind of notorious for being friendly to, you know, whatever industry it is that he's, that he's regulating, whether he's any of, he's on the Financial Services Committee. He's taken more money from banks, hedge funds and private equity than anybody else. He's like, he's known as like a almost comically voracious fundraiser. So two industry folks, plus then a kind of what you would call, I guess a normal Democrat, Valerie Foushi. So all of a sudden Foushi started getting upwards of $700,000 in support from this super PAC that is backed by Anthropic, which presents itself as the AI Safety super pac, which kind of goes against, I guess, the AI danger companies, the ones who are a little bit more reckless. Anthropic. Whenever you hear anything in the AI world about some of the dangers, it's usually because Anthropic said, hey look, be careful. Like our AI just did this terrible thing. Whereas the other AIs do the terrible thing and don't tell you about it. Godheimer himself used to work for, used to be a Microsoft executive. But there's also a data center fight going on in North Carolina. So can you tell us first about, about that, who, who is trying to put this data center in the district? What is the status of it and how relevant and how kind of resonant of an issue as this right now in, in the district for, for your voters, both the county commission level, but also in this, in this race.
- [70:50]
Nida Alam
Yeah, absolutely. And before I answer that, and also just want to note that like Anthropic is also known for its collaboration with Palantir on government contracts with ice, cbp and even in the United States illegal evasion, invasion into Venezuela. It was anti comics technology that was used in that.
- [71:11]
Dave Dayen
Right. And they recently asked a question to the Pentagon about whether or not their technology was used and appears it was in the kidnapping of Maduro and they hinted that they don't like that. And now the Pentagon is saying that they might call Anthropic a supply chain risk and not allow it to be used because Anthropic is saying we don't want our technology be used for autonomous weaponized drones. But, but they had. They're already partners with Palantir, which is one of the most.
- [71:46]
Nida Alam
It's their main.
- [71:47]
Dave Dayen
Whatever word you want to use for what Palantir does. So it's kind of late to be drawing lines perhaps, but maybe they're saying it's not anyway. Exactly. So they're close with Palantir, but go ahead. There's so much background here that we have to unpack.
- [72:00]
Nida Alam
Yeah. And also the fact that two members of this AI task force that was just created in December and represent. Fushi was appointed like literally right at the same time that we launched our campaign. And now that is very interesting.
- [72:15]
Dave Dayen
Was it before or after?
- [72:17]
Nida Alam
I think it was like a day or two before.
- [72:19]
David Hogg
Right.
- [72:20]
Dave Dayen
But people knew you were running. Yeah. At that point. So that's. And we just to tell people why. That's just to tell people why. That's interesting. The reason people often get put on these committees is because they're in need of fundraising help. And if you put them say on the financial Services committee, then banks and hedge funds and private equity, they're going to shower them with money. So they always put the vulnerable freshmen and sophomores kind of on that committee. You put somebody on the task force, they become a magnet then for AI money. So if They're Fushi raised very little of her own money, so if she needed help in a reelection, putting her on this committee would be an excellent way to signal to the AI world you need to come in with hundreds of thousands of dollars and shower her down the stretch. So go ahead. That's interesting timing.
- [73:07]
Nida Alam
And like this lobby and this super pac, Jobs and Democracy were truly about regulation and protecting the individual consumer and individual person from the dangers of AI, then why would they not be supporting the candidate in this race? Myself, who has actually been clear about my stance on national moratorium on AI data centers until we have proper regulations in place so that we don't have this uncontrolled growth that's only benefiting tech billionaires, bottom line, at the expense of our residents. And like you mentioned, there's one in this district itself, in Apex, that is being considered and brought forward to the Apex Town Council. And we don't even know which company, which tech company it is that is going to be running this. The way that they come in is that they have this other company name as the developer, and then they try to get their permits, try to get the approvals, everything. And then after it's built, the tech company, the tech giant comes in because they know it's going to be a lot harder for, you know, Meta Google to be coming in and saying, like, hey, we're going to have this massive data center that's going to be the size of, like, multiple super Walmarts coming into your backyard. And residents are terrified. They're coming out and they're speaking up against it. They're saying they don't want this in their backyard. And for our current representative to ignore those voices and in response, take hundreds of thousands of dollars from the very same industry that her constituents and residents are rallying against is extremely disappointing to them. And we see residents across the district concerned about multiple factors of this data center. We're being told by Meta that spending millions of dollars to convince us that these AI data centers are going to create jobs, we know that's false. AI is killing thousands of jobs across the country. We're seeing the amount of water usage. They're spending millions of gallons of water every single year, every single day, not even year, every single day, to cool these systems. And then Duke Energy is already renegotiating and hiking up our electricity prices as consumers, as residents to accommodate the infrastructure needs and capacity for these data centers. Why are those costs? Why are residents having to pay an AI tax?
- [75:29]
Dave Dayen
You're a week away from the election, basically, and at least 700,000 is coming from the AI company. There'll be some other super PACs we can talk about in a moment. Throwing down again. It's like a repeat of 2022. How do you get the messages that I've seen so far from this AI super PAC are not in the Democratic line of like, hey, here's why it would be good if we have a data center here and here's why we need good regulations on. And federal regulations on AI and this is why Valerie Fuchi is good for us and good for you. Like, that would be one thing if they were making the case on behalf of their own industry. They're actually, the ads just seem to be saying nice things about Valerie Fousci. So far they doesn't seem like they've gone negative on you, but they're saying, vote for Valerie Fousci because she's a good, you know, she'll be a good member of Congress, just kind of raising her popularity and her name identification and not. But not telling you that it's an AI company, an AI coalition that is behind her. So how, how are you doing in getting the message out to people that says, and how do you do this as a candidate in this era that says, okay, this is AI money? Like, this is like, whatever they're saying is, that's nice and interesting, but they have their own agenda and interests here. Are you able to get that message out? Are people following the race close enough that they're picking up what the AI coalition is kind of putting down here?
- [76:53]
Nida Alam
Yeah, absolutely. And we see this happening in with super PAC spending all across the country is that they never actually run their ads on the issue that they're lobbying for because they know that their issue is unpopular with the average person. We saw this in 2020 with APEC and DMFI. They didn't run any ads about Israel or Palestine because they know that this is not kitchen table issues that folks are like, yeah, we want more taxpayer dollars to be going to fund war. Just like residents now are not going to say, yes, we want to pay an AI tax to support these data centers. So they have to put messaging out there to just promote candidates that they know are going to be softer and easier on them or be supportive of their CAUs, even though it's against what their residents want. And the way that we're counteracting this is by. We had a press conference on Saturday to call it out. And we actually had one of the leaders of the community members at Apex, who came out and spoke at the press conference, because there were over 300 residents of Wake county that signed onto a letter calling on all US Candidates in this district, Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, everyone, to take a pledge to not accept money from the AI lobby. And I'm the only candidate in this race that has taken that pledge. And in response to over 300 residents, Valerie, our Representative Fu Xi's response has been, hey, I want to take hundreds of thousands of dollars for them. And they said very clearly at the press conference, she said, if you take this money, we are not going to forget. And residents, even if, you know, hopefully she doesn't. But if Representative Fu Xi is victorious in this election, her residents, she is not listening to them. She is going completely against what they are asking for right now. And so we are messaging, making sure that residents know how this AI data center is going to impact them, what the AI tax means, how a moratorium is going to help make sure that there's proper regulations put in place on big Tech.
- [78:58]
Dave Dayen
And so. So you have a fairly engaged district, right? I mean, you have a lot of people who are paying close attention. So maybe it will get out. Like, maybe people are engaged enough. Last night, President Trump raised the salience of the issue again. He talked about this in the State of the Union. He seems to recognize the political peril that he's in with the amount of money that he's shoveled at AI and the backlash to data centers. And he said, but I promise you, from now on, you know, these data centers are going to produce their own power. But to me, if you're in a. In a rural area and somebody tells you, hey, there's. We're going to put this gigantic data center in your backyard. People are going, I don't know about that. And you say, oh, wait, we're going to make it even better. We're going to put a power plant right next to it. People are going to be like, oh, I mean, okay, I'm glad that I'm. That doesn't sound better. I don't want a power plant also. So.
- [79:54]
Nida Alam
And they're using, like, these centers are using these backup diesel generators that are emitting toxic fumes that are polluting our water and airways. And they're happening not just in rural communities. The one in Apex is like, literally in the backyard of our residence. So they are family members that they're scared of, how it's going to impact the air quality for their children, how it's going to impact the water quality that that is coming into their taps
- [80:21]
Dave Dayen
and so, so what about aipac? So Valerie Fushi, she after getting that two plus million dollars had been, has been critical of, of Israel. She, she endorsed the Back the Bombs act which is the progressive caucuses bill that still allows significant amount of weapons to go to Israel but does block, did I say back the bombs? Block the bombs. It still does block you know, some weapons and is something of a red line for aipac. Like you're AIPAC is not who comes in and is, is okay with some nuance on the question. Like they, they say they want unconditional aid and, and they mean it and if you don't support unconditional aid, they'll come after you. Tom Malinowski, former member of Congress who said there should be some modest conditions on some aid, some military aid to Israel. They spent millions of dollars in New Jersey against him elect and accidentally or perhaps elected a progressive and a Lilia Mejia instead. Seems like that same super PAC is interested in your race now. Is there enough time for them to impact the race? And what are you seeing from this shadowy super pac?
- [81:30]
Nida Alam
Yeah, we're seeing that money is starting to drop in at the last minute and it's showing. What we've known is that this race is going to be very close. And quite frankly the establishment and the status quo is scared because they see that the electorate is sick and tired of being told to wait for change, to wait for relief. They're sick and tired of their taxpayer dollars being used to fund endless wars, to have to pay an AI tax. This district is working families just like a majority, vast, vast majority of this country is. And so these super PACs are dumping in the last minute money because it's a desperate Hail Mary to try to save this seat for the establishment. And we're countering that by making sure that you know, people know who is behind this money that is coming in. Making sure that folks know that the only reason this money is coming in is because they're scared of us as working families, as individuals stepping up and having our voices be heard and taking on these corporate interests and taking on the big tech, the war machine. And unfortunately we're seeing the same entities and the shady tactics that were used in New Jersey, they're being used in Illinois coming into this district, the safest blue seat in North Carolina.
- [82:52]
Dave Dayen
And are they going negative on you or are they boosting Valerie at this point the New Jersey aipac looking super PAC.
- [83:01]
Nida Alam
So none of the PACs have gone negative on me unfortunately Representative Fu Xi herself Her campaign ran a negative attack ad yesterday that we had to actually issue our own cease and desist and
- [83:12]
Dave Dayen
they took it down, which is extremely unusual.
- [83:14]
Nida Alam
Yes, CBS 17 took it down. I don't believe the other. I'm not sure if the other stations have taken it down yet. The representative Fushi still has her messaging, false messaging attacking me on her website as last time I checked it and
- [83:29]
Dave Dayen
it was a weird false message. The false message was claiming you didn't file a financial disclosure when you did. So it's like. It's a strange.
- [83:38]
Nida Alam
It's also that there's not much that they can or anything that they can
- [83:43]
Dave Dayen
use against me and she didn't do her paperwork properly. Oh, oh, wait, actually she did.
- [83:47]
Nida Alam
Yeah. And if you look at my paperwork, what's terrifying about it is something that's terrifying to all residents. It's full of student debt. And that's what most people in this country are dealing with. And if you are looking at my generation and the next, we are more likely to be living with student debt for the rest of our lives than we are to be able to have a mortgage, to be able to, to achieve the American dream that we were
- [84:10]
Dave Dayen
raised was possible for us, especially Durham, I would suspect. Now, on the flip side, what makes this race unusual is that you have a shadowy super PAC that launched on your side. It appears from the reporting I've been able to do that this is a kind of Bernie Sanders adjacent. It's not from Bernie Sanders himself, but people in the Bernie Sanders kind of AOC wing of the party have raised, you know, millions of dollars to do their own super PACs to come in and try to defend people who are getting hit, hit by super PACs from the other direction. The last I saw that they, they had spent half a million or were planning to spend half a million in the race. I don't know if they've, they've come in with any more since then, but is that, does that help? Have you, have you gotten much of a word on who is that?
- [84:58]
Zaid Jilani
Who.
- [84:59]
David Hogg
Who.
- [84:59]
Dave Dayen
That is what they want. And is it having an effect on the ground? Are you noticing that having that cavalry come in and defend you on the other side is changing people's understanding of the race?
- [85:12]
Nida Alam
Yeah, I mean, I don't know who the individual members are since we don't collaborate with these IE groups, but I've seen the same reporting that you have that they released, I believe it was like last Thursday that said that these were individuals who are coming up and supporting candidates who are against endless funding of wars who stand up and want to take a stance because they're sick and tired of seeing corporations and right wing special interest groups like AIPAC buying seats and electing people who are just going to be yes men for war and corporate tax breaks and cuts instead of for the average working people. And these are groups and donors who, from what I've seen from the reporting, have supported progressive candidates all across the country. And, and I'm grateful for the organizations like Justice Democrats, Working Families, Party leaders, We Deserve Sunrise Movement, who have been leading the charge in lifting up progressive voices. And it's sad that we unfortunately live in this political system that endless amounts of money have to be spent. And it's sad that in the safest blue seat, our representative is taking money from the same folks who fund Trump we're seeing. She's running this campaign, saying that she's going to take on Trump and his authoritarianism. How are you going to do that when you're accepting and cashing checks from the very same people who put him into office? If we truly want to hold Trump accountable, then we need to hold the corporations and these right wing billionaires and these special interest groups that put them into office accountable and get them out of our political systems. Because as long as they have us and our US Government in a chokehold, Trump is not going to be the end of our nightmare. That's just the first step for them.
- [86:58]
Dave Dayen
All right, well, Nidda Lam, county commissioner running in North Carolina's 4th district. Mail in voting has already started. The election will be next Tuesday. Is that March 1st? Is that March 4th?
- [87:09]
Nida Alam
So early voting ends Saturday on the 28th, and then election day is on March 3rd.
- [87:15]
Dave Dayen
All right, well, we'll be following this and we'll be back in touch on election day or the day after. But thank you so much for, for joining us.
- [87:25]
Nida Alam
I appreciate it, Rahid.
- [87:26]
Ryan Grim
All right, that does it for us. We will be back tomorrow for I think it's gonna be yet another comedy takeover tomorrow because Emily is unavailable. Saga is unavailable. So. So prepare yourselves, comrades.
- [87:38]
Dave Dayen
People, people, come here for both sides. You're gonna get the Bolshevik side and the Menshevik side, and we're gonna be. You're gonna be totally fair. Yeah.
- [87:48]
Ryan Grim
All right, guys, have a great day. We'll see you then.
- [87:50]
Dave Dayen
So, yeah,
- [88:09]
Ryan Grim
Then she says, have you seen a photo of my son? And I'm like, who is this person?
- [88:14]
Dave Dayen
Welcome to the Boys and Girls Podcast. Arranged marriage is basically a reality show
- [88:19]
Ryan Grim
and you're auditioning for your soulmate and who's judging? Only your entire family. I sacrificed myself to this ancient tradition,
- [88:28]
Dave Dayen
hoping to find love the right way. And instead, I found chaos, comedy, and a lot of cringe.
- [88:34]
Zaid Jilani
Listen to boys and Girls on the
- [88:36]
Dave Dayen
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I actually drop better when I'm high.
- [88:42]
David Hogg
It heightens my senses, calms me down. If anything, I'm more careful. Honestly, it just helps me focus.
- [88:51]
Dave Dayen
That's probably what the driver who killed a four year old told himself.
- [88:55]
Zaid Jilani
And now he's in prison.
- [88:57]
Dave Dayen
You see, no matter what you tell yourself, if you feel different, you drive different. So if you're high, just don't drive. Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council.
- [89:10]
Ryan Grim
Hey, everyone, it's Emily Simpson and Shane Simpson from the Legally Brunette podcast.
- [89:16]
Dave Dayen
Each week we're bringing you true crime through a legal lens.
- [89:19]
Ryan Grim
Whether you want all the facts on the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie or you still need to wrap your head around the Diddy verdict, we're breaking it all
- [89:27]
Dave Dayen
down step by step.
- [89:29]
Zaid Jilani
And we're not just lawyers.
- [89:30]
Dave Dayen
We're also husband and wife. It makes for some pretty entertaining episodes.
- [89:34]
Ryan Grim
Listen to Legally Burned out on the
- [89:35]
Dave Dayen
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [89:40]
Ryan Grim
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.