← Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
2/3/26: US Elites Protected From Epstein Files, US Military Equipment Rushed To Iran, Trump Election Takeover
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Sagar and Krystal here.
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Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.
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This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.
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D
We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breaking points.com Good morning, everybody. Happy Tuesday. We have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have? Crystal?
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A
Indeed we do. Big show today. We've got Rokhanna coming in studio to break down the latest in terms of the Epstein files and what he is continuing to fight for. We've also got Trita Parsi joining us to talk about the latest in terms of potential diplomacy with Iran and what still looks like a pretty dire situation in terms of potential military conflict. We got some big updates with regard to this seizing the ballots in Fulton county situation. Trump coming out and saying that he thinks Republicans should nationalize the elections in any number of places. Also, very interesting election results. We didn't get to this yesterday because we did all Epstein in the show, but a really significant result in a Texas state Senate district we'll take a look at. And then all hell breaking loose between Jasmine Crockett, Colin Allred and James Tallarigo. We will break down all, all of the drama there. That is a really, really interesting one. Also a Trump scandal that may dwarf all other Trump corruption scandals. And that is a high bar that has already been set and has direct implications for our foreign and economic policy, by the way. And we're going to take a look at this mult book phenomenon. I don't know if you guys have been following this online. There is this AI agent that has been created that many, many people have now, you know, are now using and they put them all in what is like a Reddit for AI agents and a bun like creepy and disturbing stuff happened. So break down. You know, how much of this is real? How much of it is just being pushed by humans? What are people who know a lot more about this than I do or Saga does? What are they saying about it? I am personally extremely fascinated by the whole thing and what it says about where we are in terms of AI development.
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D
Yeah, it's gonna be a fun story. Thank you to everybody who's been signing up BreakingPoints.com I did check the numbers this morning. Yesterday was the fifth largest show in Breaking Points history and in fact, we had a huge influx of new viewers and new listeners. So if you're here, thank you very much. Thank you for subscribing in particular, we do recommend that the Epstein show really be listened to, subscribed to the show so you can listen to completely in full and uncut, which is of course available to all of our premiums. And we did our AMA yesterday. Breakingpoints.com if you can help support our show. In fact, as usual, one of our Epstein videos was in fact demonetized, hundreds of thousands of views, but it was demonetized by YouTube, which is just a reason why we cannot rely on the algorithm or ad revenue or any of this to support our journalism. So if you can support us, we deeply would appreciate it. Otherwise, if you're watching this on YouTube, please hit subscribe to the channel. And if you're listening to this as a podcast, please share an episode with a friend and rate it 5 stars. In particular, yesterday's episode, it would be a fantastic one to be able to share with a family member or somebody else who's like, hey, what exactly is going on with this Epstein stuff? But with that, let's go ahead and get to our interview with Ro Khanna. Joining us now is Congressman Ro Khanna. He was the driving force behind the release of the Epstein files. We're here to get some of his reaction and some of the follow on. Sir, it's good to see you. Thanks for joining us.
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C
Good to see you.
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D
All right, so first of all, let's start. Obviously there's been an extraordinary amount of attention paid to the partial release so far of some of the Epstein files which you helped force with the legislation that you co authored there with Thomas Massie. However, as I understand it, the DOJ is still not fully complying with the legislation that you passed. Could you just lay that out as the author of that legislation?
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C
Sager, you're right. But there's been so much attention paid to what hasn't been released. There hasn't been enough attention paid to the depravity in what has been released. So yes, we are going to meet with Attorney General Blanche. There's still about 50% of the documents that have not been released. There are too many redactions. Too many people who were co conspirators are being protected. Too many people who are rich and powerful names aren't being released while the victims names were released. But it is staggering what was released. I mean, some of the most powerful people in tech, in finance, in real estate, basically emailing Epstein saying I want to go to the island where young girls are being raped, where young girls are being paraded naked and give me a break. Some of These people are saying, oh, I was going for fundraising. Really, you got to go to Epstein's island to raise money. I mean, come on, all of the people who were on Epstein's island need to be investigated. They need to be asked who was doing the raping, who did they see? And really having an ongoing investigation about what went on.
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A
You know, not only did you push forward this legislation, you also coined the term Epstein class. And for me, anyway, the more that I have read these emails, the more that I have learned about what's in this file, in these files, the more apt that expression really seems. And I wanna put a 7 up on the screen and just to dig into some of the revelations here about not just the depravity, but the big power and money politics that were being played here behind the scenes in a wholly undemocratic way. And so this is one, I think, very interesting example. You've got Epstein emailing here with Peter Thiel. Thiel says to Epstein, you start from the bottom up. Brexit is just the beginning. Or I'm sorry, Epstein said that. And then Thiel says, of what? And then Epstein says, return to tribalism, counter to globalization. Amazing new alliances. You and I both agreed zero interest rates were too high. And as I said in your office, finding things on their way to collapse was much easier than finding the next bargain. And what Jeet here says is this 2016 exchange between Epstein and Peter Thiel, so essential, really gets the heart of Epstein, Epstein's project. You know, I wonder what you take sort of away from the totality of these things and how it helps us understand the way that power has actually been operating.
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C
So that's very thoughtful, really. This should be a lens into America's elite. And the question we should be asking ourselves as a society is how did we produce an elite like this? How did we produce an elite that is so callow, so immature, so venal, chasing gratification, raping underage girls, or watching as underage girls are being raped, joking around with each other about the most heinous things, and having no sense of moral core or obligation to community, like what in this country produced this at the highest levels of finance, business, politics, real estate business, and watch them just get away with things? And how did we allow for a society where power and money not only protects itself, but protects itself with no sense of public spiritedness? It's not just that the rich and powerful are getting away with things, it's that they're getting away with things with a total vapidness. A total immaturity, a total lack of regard for what America's project is.
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D
One of the things I'm really struck by and the difference in our systems, let's say for example, is that in the uk, these Lord Mendelssohn revelations are literally threatening to bring down the government. Let's put a 3, for example, on the screen the UK system is snapping too. As a result of these revelations, the Metropolitan Police are opening an investigation into committing criminal offenses, leaking inside information which Epstein may have used to short and or to buy stocks with initial of a bailout. You have the Prime Minister who's getting involved in attempting to strip a peerage. You had an ambassador who was recalled after his association with Epstein. We have seen none of that. As I can tell right now, the only potential consequences in our country as a result of the Epstein files released now so far is that maybe Dr. Peter Attia will not be a contributor at CBS News, but any of the billionaires, any of the politicians, all these people, there's not even a question about accountability in our own country. I'm dumbstruck at the difference. This is a wet. Our cousins in the uk, their government system is reacting entirely differently than our own country as a result of the release of these files.
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C
You're absolutely right, Sagar. And this is why I said our focus is so much on what documents released, what were redacted, that we're missing the bigger story, which is that there were dozens of people who are emailing with Epstein saying I want to go to his rape island. This Epstein class. And in Britain there were a few people, the Prince Andrew and Mendelssohn. And Mendelssohn is facing an appropriate reaction. Someone said to me, ro, there's so many people here that each of them should be on the front page of the New York Times and the front page of coverage. But they're just all getting by because there's so many. There are dozens of people who've done worse things than Mendelsohn has and yet there's been no accountability. I mean, someone should come up with a list of every single prominent person who asked Epstein to go to his island and that should be published and they should be forced whenever doing an interview, whenever at a company, to first answer everything they knew about what was going on on that island.
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A
Yeah, I think it's worth just laying out a little bit of what Mandelson did do, just because I think it's again, very emblematic of understanding how these power structures work. You know, we were led to believe, oh Jeffrey Epstein was this great financial genius, blah, blah, blah. There's no real evidence of that in particular in these emails. Instead, what you see in this specific case of Mandelson, he was casually sending Jeffrey Epstein inside information about what the UK government was going to do during the financial crisis. So he was getting insider information about, hey, these are the, you know, this is the memo that's to the Prime Minister. It's looking like we're gonna do a 500 billion euro bailout. He's getting this information before it goes public. So, hey, look, if it doesn't take a rocket scientist to then go out and trade on that information and make a whole bunch of money. There were also exchanges, and this is part of why Mandelson's in such hot water, where he's strategizing with Epstein how to serve the banks at the expense of the uk. So the allegiance there wasn't to his own country. No, it was to the banking elites, you know, who he felt kinship with and who he would be dependent on after he left government to make his own billions. And so, you know, as one particular example, I think it is an extraordinary example of the way these people operate. I mean, I am truly blown away by the level of control and input, input Epstein had into any number of countries around the globe and these big deals and major shifts that were occurring. So, you know, that's part of what. While the, you know, I think the, the horrific sex acts and crimes are an important part of that. And that was part of the glue that he used to hold the whole thing together and to use as leverage over various powerful people to get them to serve his interests. You know, the broader story is truly one of like the secret system by which the world operates that again, has been wholly unaccountable to the American people or anyone else.
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C
Crystal, you're getting to the heart of the matter, and that is that the Epstein story is not just about the rape of underage girls from working class families. The Epstein story is about a group of rich and powerful people who have corrupted and rigged a system to enrich themselves at the expense of ordinary Americans, at the expense of the working class. And the emails are just a small window into how this network operates. It's not just that they have impunity to do horrific things on an island. It's that they are working to give each other information, to give each other deals that aren't on the up and up or transparent, that allow them to accumulate wealth and power in a way that no working class person can do. And this is why people have such anger at the system. It's that they see the exposure of rich and powerful people corrupting things. And by the way, your point about Epstein is absolutely right. I know enough of these rich people and billionaires in my district, let me tell you, they go through such vetting to hire people who go do their accounting or manage their money. There's no way they would just hire a schoolteacher to do that if there was not something else that they were benefiting from. And what we clearly see is they're benefiting because of this network of illegality that Epstein has set up.
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D
Yeah, you can read the emails now. Thanks to you, they're all public. There's no great tax advice. The only tax advice I found is him finding an article written by a tax professional and saying, hey, maybe we should try this out. Not exactly genius move. Something that probably people worth much less than him already were taking advantage of. I do wanna get your reaction here to the way that the Trump administration has handled it, and specifically the President. He's saying, I have nothing to do with Jeffrey Epstein. He was asked about it just yesterday. Let's get your reaction and take a listen.
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C
And no, he made a statement about me and Jeffrey Epstein. I have nothing to do with that. I have nothing to do with Jeffrey Epstein. And in fact, if you look at the DOJ, they announced, you know, they released 3 million pages. It's like this is all they're supposed to be doing. And frankly, the doj, I think, should just say, we have other things to do, because that whole thing has turned out, I mean, other than Bill Clinton and, you know, Bill Gates and lots of people that have. There are a lot of questions about it, but nothing on me. But it was even sort of better than that because they found that Jeffrey Epstein and this Leesbag writer named Michael Wolff were conspiring against Donald Trump to lose the election. So Epstein was conspiring with a writer for me to lose the election. So right there, you know, that I had nothing to do with this guy. But, yeah, it's a terrible thing, the amount of time that's being wasted. You know, when Epstein was alive, like 10 years ago, nobody cared about it, but they were only doing it. But now it's really hitting back on them because Bill Clinton is such a big part of it. The Democrats are pushing it, and the problem is that it's turning out to be the Democrats that were with and conspired with Epson. So I think you're probably going to see a Little pullback from them. But, but think of it. They were working together to try and help me lose the election, but this is the Oval Office, so I guess that didn't work out too well.
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D
Nothing to do with him. And by the way, the doj, maybe they should just drop it. Your reaction, sir?
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C
You know, this gets under his skin. First of all, that image is so emblematic of everything wrong with the Trump administration. These men in black suits right behind him, just sitting there, standing there silently as he spews nonsense. But this is the one issue which he's losing his base over, and he knows it. This is the issue where he sees protesters at factory towns, at factories, where he goes to Michigan saying, you're protecting pedophiles. This is the one issue where the MAGA base disapproves of what he's doing. He's being called out by people like Marjorie Taylor Greene and the podcaster Sean Ryan, the second biggest podcaster in the country, who said, look, why are you protecting these people? And it undermines his central promise to the American people that I'm going to tear down a two tier system of justice. I'm going to go up after these corrupt elite who offshored your jobs. I'm going to be for the ordinary American. So people aren't buying it. And I think this is what frustrates him. He keeps saying, move on, move on, move on. But people aren't moving on because it's a window into the corruption of the elite. And now he's part of it, as opposed to an outsider railing against it.
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A
Yeah, let's go ahead and put a six up on the screen because we did have an update here with regard to the Clintons, which Trump is very interested in, their appearance in the files. If nothing else, they've capitulated now on the House Epstein inquiry, they have agreed to testify. You know, just give us an update there. And what you think the significance of that would be, what sort of questions you would want to see them answer.
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C
Well, I'm glad that they did and that they're going to appear now. I do think that Donald Trump should appear as well, given that we're setting this precedent. But, you know, I would ask Clinton the same questions I'd ask anyone who was corresponding with Epstein. Who all do you know went to Epstein's island? Who all do you know were at these parties? Were you at any of these parties? Did you ever go to the island? If you didn't go to the island, who are the people you knew that did go to the island. What are the people that you know who engaged in either sex with Epstein's trafficked women or that you've heard actually engaged in raping underage girls? And then I would talk about the. Ask him about the money interests and what he knew about Epstein's financial interests. And finally, how is it that Epstein has access to all these presidents and world leaders? How is it that. What is he doing that's giving him this access?
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D
Yeah, I mean, my final question on the Epstein matter, sir, is just broadly, you know, looking forward, the doj. I know you said you don't necessarily want to focus, but I do still think it's important for journalists like ourselves. We did an entire show yesterday. There's still 3 million files with outstanding. The administration has indicated that in some cases they have videos depicting, like, heinous acts, which, look, you know, I understand redaction and et cetera, but we have no confidence right now that any of that is being investigated. What more can you and the Congress do to force the eventual release and especially just to comply with the law that was passed through Congress and signed here by the President. Because by the President's own comments, it does not appear that that's something that they want to do.
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C
Well, we actually should focus on what wasn't released, because if what was released is bad, what was. Wasn't released is probably nuclear.
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D
Yes.
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C
I'm just saying that let's also understand how bad it is what already was released. But, you know, Massey and I have requested a meeting with Blanche. He said he's going to meet. We want to see all the unredacted files. We want to see what their justification was for the redactions. We have legal avenues open to us in the Southern District of New York. The fact that the survivors have already filed with the Southern District of New York saying that justice has violated the privacy of all these survivors gives us an opportunity to pursue legal action. That's why we asked for a special massacre. And we still will pursue the avenue of getting the remaining documents. What matters, frankly, is that people continue to demand that. So far, they are. I think that this release has raised more questions than it's answered. And it's something that's personal for me. I'm going to continue to fight until every file that should be released is released.
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A
Finally, Congressman, while we have you here, I wanted to talk to you a little bit about the ongoing funding issues with regard to DHS and holding DHS and ICE specifically accountable. You recently responded to a clip of Chuck Schumer explaining what some of his funding priorities are. Let's go ahead and take a listen to that clip.
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E
Fight for aid to Israel. All the aid that Israel needs. I will continue to fight for it.
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C
And we delivered more security assistance to.
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E
Israel, our ally, under my leadership, than ever, ever before. We will keep doing that, everybody. It is so important by to give Israel what it needs and to protect itself from the many in that difficult region who want to wipe Israel off the face of the map.
- [22:34]
A
So in my estimation, he hasn't done nearly enough to fight against the Trump administration. But I do believe him and take him at his word when he says he will fight for that funding for Israel. What was your reaction to seeing that clip from Schumer?
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C
I couldn't believe it. I mean, here is a nation that has committed genocide in Gaza and Chuck Schumer in the same years is bragging about providing them unconditional military aid. Look, the appropriations bill that's coming to the House today or tomorrow has two problems. It has tripled the ICE funding, which I pointed out and now some of my colleagues are pointing out, but it also has a significant blank check, a military aid to Israel. And when I raised that, one or two of my colleagues said, well, why do you have to bring that into it? I said, because both are deeply problematic. We should not be having military sales to a government that committed genocide and we should not be having triple the funding for an ICE agency that is violating constitutional rights. You know, I've been thinking about it, Chris Line, I believe that what we need in the Democratic Party in this country is a new moral vision. We need to have a simple way of understanding that you can't be for pedophiles, you can't be for ICE abuse, you can't be for funding genocide. And those are actually the bedrock foundational principles. Before you have your childcare or economic plan, let's convince people that we actually have morality again in this country.
- [24:06]
A
Seems like it should be a low bar, but apparently difficult one for far too many to meet. Congressman, thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much for your leadership on these issues.
- [24:14]
D
Thank you, sir. Appreciate you.
- [24:15]
C
Thank you. Appreciate you both.
- [24:18]
B
Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you you backtested against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available@public.com Disclosures Are you a fraud paying American?
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- [26:49]
D
Joining us now is Dr. Trita Parsi to break down this ongoing situation with Iran. Sir, it's good to see you. Thanks for joining us.
- [26:54]
E
Good to see you.
- [26:55]
D
All right, so let's go ahead and start with these scheduled talks. Let's put this up here on the screen. It appears some sort of Diplomatic negotiations currently happening. U. S. Iran nuclear talks planned for Friday amid military buildup. We do know, of course, there's ongoing buildup of. Of military assets in the region. Steve Witkoff, Jared Kushner Scheduled to meet with the Iranians. However, they're making a pit stop in Israel. I believe they just landed there this morning. As you and I are talking, you are a bit skeptical currently about this diplomatic negotiation. Just break it down for us, what we need to know.
- [27:28]
E
Well, there are reasons to be skeptical, and there's also reasons to believe that perhaps ultimately this could work. Now, let me start with a reasons to be skeptical. At the end of the day, we're seeing that positions on the nuclear issue as well as on missiles, the two sides are extremely far away from each other. The Iranians have almost zero maneuverability and are not really in a position to give that much. And I think the Trump administration is overestimating Iran's weakness. Iran definitely is weaker than it was two years ago, but not as weak as Trump seems to believe, and as a result, is not ready to just capitulate. And there is a line of thinking in Iran which is that there may be a need for at least a limited military confrontation in which the Iranians respond far, far more harshly than they have so far, in order to dispel the belief in the Trump administration that Iran is so weak that he has no choice but to capitulate. Whether that will work out that way, of course, is a completely different story. But the calculation on the Iranian side essentially is they cannot win a war, but they can last long enough to make sure that Trump loses his presidency with the damage that they would be inflicted on him, the damage that would be inflicted on energy markets, inflation in the US Et cetera, et cetera. Very, very destructive approach, obviously. And as long as the two sides are this far away from each other and Trump has this type of impatient approach to diplomacy, this could very quickly lead to an escalation in which the two sides just conclude they're too far away from each other. All of military assets in the region already, and the pressure on Trump will significantly increase to go at it on the positive side, you're now seeing the region being fully involved in this, and the fact that you have countries like Saudi, Oman, Pakistan, Egypt, Qatar being included in the meeting in Turkey. Whether they attend or not remains to be seen, is a very significant development because on the one hand, it signifies how the region is once again trying to impose itself on Trump, as it did with the previous Gaza ceasefire, in which by acting collectively, they really can get Trump's attention and get Trump to listen to them rather than to listen to Israel. Now, whether that works out this way this time around, of course, is a different story. The other point of it is that there is so little trust between the US And Iran. And having these regional countries evolve provides a bit of a guarantee or a proxy of a guarantee for the Iranians that the Trump administration will uphold its end of the bargain, if there is a bargain, given the fact that otherwise it will be betraying the trust of all of these different countries. And again, Trump, unlike previous presidents, actually really does value the view of some of these countries, at least, and does take their collective view more seriously than, for instance, the Biden administration did. None of this, nevertheless, is a guarantee for an agreement ultimately comes down to where their positions are. And right now, they're very far away from each other.
- [30:36]
A
What is your understanding of why there has not been military action to this point?
- [30:43]
E
I think the main reason, first of all, about two and a half weeks ago, Trump almost took military action, as you all remember, and then he called it off. My understanding is that there had been an attempt to get the Iranians to agree to a limited strike in which the Iranians then would respond symbolically, as they had done before, and it would make Trump look very good, and the Iranians would have escaped a real war. But the Iranian response was no, if there is an attack, you will have full scale war. And I think that took the President back, and that's why he ended up having all of these other military assets drawn to the region. Whether he's doing that because he ultimately wants to attack, or whether he does that because he wants to try that bargain again or try it at the diplomatic table remains to be seen, of course.
- [31:28]
D
Well, I do want to get your reaction. There's a report out this morning from Barack Ravid. He could take it with a grain of salt, but here's what he says. The dynamic has shifted. A succession of Israeli spies and generals, including IDF Chief of Staff, have visited D.C. in recent days. It is safe to say nothing came out of the meeting to change the President's mind. Quote, it's really the Israelis who want a strike. The president is not just there, he really does not want to do it, however, could be boxed currently, like you said, into a situation. Can you talk here about how the Israelis have moved the goalposts? So the reason for the 12 Day War was to destroy Iran's nuclear capability. And they said that they had succeeded in that. And Thus, mission accomplished. And yet here we are six months later, and now we might bomb Iran because of a nuclear facility and or nuclear program. And now, in fact, the goalposts are moving to missile production, which is their only possible regional deterrent against Israel. So it does appear as if the Israelis are significantly putting pressure, moving the goalposts to try and move in a direction of war.
- [32:26]
E
Absolutely. And I think if you go back to what we talked about back then in July and June, the bottom line is that once Trump agrees to a small bit of the Israeli position, that's when he boxes himself in. He did that last time. He could have pursued diplomacy. He could have pursued it based on his original demand of no nuclear weapon. He accepted the Israeli position of no enrichment, and of course, it led him to a dead end and military action ensued. Now, he's then gone along and accepted missiles as a new demand, despite the fact that he just said that, you know, this whole issue is resolved. Then again, he agreed that there's a problem with the missiles, apparently. And here we are again on the brink of war. If he really does not want to go to war, then he should not accept the premise of the Israeli position, because the premise of the Israeli position is designed to bring the United States into this war. Now, one very important aspect that is not really fully discussed in Washington, in my view, is that you have this regional constellation not just trying to avoid a war, but they're actually really trying to save a certain balance in the region which requires that there isn't a war and that Iran doesn't become completely weakened because a new situation has emerged in the region following the US Completely lifting all restrictions on Israel during the Biden administration, which then led to Israel bombing seven countries in the region, including US Allies such as Qatar. And it turned out that the United States is no protection against Israel for these countries, as air defense systems don't even activate when Israel attacks. And this now led to situation in which these countries need to have their own balancing against Israel. And within that context, a war with Iran that either further weakens Iran, or you have chaos in Iran, or you have a pro Israel puppet installed in Iran is a devastating geopolitical development for these countries. Despite the fact that they're no fans of the Islamic Republic. They do want to see Iran weaken, but not further than what it already is, because if it is weakened further than this point, it starts affecting their security negatively because they will have a harder time balancing against what they view as an increasingly aggressive and unrestrained Israel.
- [34:43]
A
Yeah, how do you think Trump is thinking about this? I understand what Israel wants in terms of vis a vis Iran. They want either regime changed to some puppet regime or total state collapse. And you've laid that out very effectively. What does Trump really want here? Is it just another, you know, sugar high like he had his successful military quote, unquote, victory in Venezuela? What is it truly that he's actually after?
- [35:06]
E
I do think that there is a search for sugar highs and an overconfidence following both the midnight hammer as well as the operation in Venezuela in which there is this naive belief that this can just be cookie cutter repeated wherever he wants to go, and it just simply cannot. I do think that he wants to be able to deliver something on this issue to pacify those voices that are constantly pressuring him. But here's where that is a miscalculation. They will not be pacified until he has gone into full scale war with Iran. There is no half measure. Either you tell them no or you're going to have to tell them yes. And if you give these half yeses every six months, they're going to come back and you're going to have to give another half yes and another half yes and eventually you will be in a full scale war on behalf of Israel.
- [36:00]
D
So one of my questions here also is there's potential talks of off ramps. Let's say the Iranians agree to suspend enrichment but not give up all enrichment. Do these not yet still feel like half measures? Because if you're an Iranian negotiator, the last time that you were scheduled to meet with Steve Witkoff, it was cover for a strike on your country. And perhaps that factored into their more recent calculation saying, look, we are not taking symbolic strikes. If you hit us, it's on. From their perspective, how are they looking at things and especially in the context of their regime? As you said, it stands together. However, it is slightly weakened after the ongoing protests. Talk about the domestic dynamics inside Iran.
- [36:44]
E
On the first issue, you're quite right. If the perception they have is if they give on enrichment, then it will be missiles. If they give on missiles, eventually it will be kitchen knives. There's no end to this. So I find them very unlikely to give something that is really irreversible. Now, there's some rumors that there's talk about giving up the 400 kilos of 60% enriched uranium that is somewhere under the mountain. It seems like the Iranians themselves don't have access to it. So the idea that it's leverage for them is a Bit of a stretch. So giving it up perhaps is. Is more valuable than it otherwise would be. But the question is, do you combine that with a complete end to enrichment, zero enrichment? I would be very surprised if that is the position the Iranians take, and particularly mindful of the fact that there are elements, powerful elements within the IRGC, who are completely opposed to the ceasefire in the 12 day war, who believed that Iran was starting to win the war. The idea that they would go from that to suddenly, completely capitulate seems very, very odd.
- [37:52]
A
Now.
- [37:52]
E
The domestic situation is very, very problematic. At the end of the day, Iran is still in a complete state of shock. The killings were on an unprecedented scale. I don't believe some of these huge numbers are being thrown out there because the methodology behind them doesn't seem to be sound. But it does seem very likely that between 5 and 6,000 or perhaps more, up to 7,000 were killed. And that is a huge number. It's never happened before. And this has just left the country in a state of shock. It has further eroded whatever little legitimacy the regime had. It has also consolidated other elements within the security apparatus, because they also point to this other factor that Israeli talked about, which is there were also clearly very, very violent elements within the protest movement. I personally think that they're separate from the protest movement. There is something that was there that was going to take advantage of massive protest move to do this. I spoke to one person who was out in the streets, had been in every protest before from 2009, and he said that they were just shocked to see these men in black acting very fast, you know, looked professional, had clear plans, putting buildings on fire, fighting with police, putting policemen on fire. And in 2009, he told me that whenever there was any violence, the protesters themselves quickly put an end to it because they had such a strong discipline of nonviolence this time around. He said no one dared to intervene because people were equally afraid of these violent elements within the protest movement, as well as the, the thugs of the Basij movement, this militia, etc. So we actually ended up going home because, like, this was not what I signed up for. I wanted to protest against the government about what they're doing, the horrible state of life in Iran, but not this.
- [39:40]
A
Wow.
- [39:41]
E
So I think there's another narrative out there, another reality that is not being discussed enough. Because, you know, even the US government acknowled that about 300 police were killed. Well, how were they killed?
- [39:52]
D
Who killed them and with what weapons come from?
- [39:56]
E
Yeah, like where did the weapons come from. And then you have Mike Pompeo giving interviews to the Israeli news outlets claiming that, you know, the US did everything it could to help the protesters, including weapons. I don't know if that's true or if that's just his way of sabotaging the talks and playing psychological warfare. But bottom line is we know that this was very, very different from any previous protest. But that also then indicates that the regime has to a very large extent, lost control of the security of the country. So even if their narrative has some element of truth, it actually is a strike against them because it reveals that they actually have not been able to root out the presence of either violent elements or elements that have been supported by outside groups.
- [40:42]
A
My last question for you is, do you have any sense of whether there are elements within the Iranian government or within the IRGC that say, you know what, the logic is such we should actually race to a bomb, because that is the only thing that is going to act as a deterrence. That is the only way these people will ever even consider leaving us alone.
- [40:59]
E
They certainly are. And those voices at this point probably are a majority. They never were a majority prior to all of this. The question, though, is, or the obstacle they have is that the Supreme Leader himself seems to be dead set against it. It he at least seems to take his own fatwa very seriously against nuclear weapons. There is a lot of frustration within the system amongst those who believe that this is the only rational choice that Iran can make at this point, and it's not being pursued, in their view, because of him. At the same time, we also have to acknowledge if they were racing behind the scenes for a bomb, they would be acting exactly like they're acting right now. Now, which is continue to insist that they're not doing so. Pursuing the weapon is a much more quiet endeavor than running a large civilian nuclear program. It could be done in very small labs, in garages, etc. Does the US and Israel have the intelligence to be able to completely detect that or not? We don't know. We have not seen any signs from the Israelis saying that the Iranians are actually building a bomb. They're leaking intelligence reports, valid or not, that the Iranians are trying to revive certain aspects of the program, but they haven't come out and said that there's a secret weapon program going on. So reality is, in the absence of IAA inspectors, it's very difficult to know exactly what is happening.
- [42:22]
D
Yeah, very good points. All right, sir, thank you so much for joining us. We always appreciate your thank you so much.
- [42:29]
B
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This message comes from Greenlight. Ready to start talking to your kids about financial literacy? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app that teaches kids and teens how to earn, save, spend wisely and invest with your guardrails in place. With Greenlight, you can send money to kids quickly, set up chores, automate allowance, and keep an eye on what your kids are spending with real time notifications. Join millions of parents and kids building healthy financial habits together on Greenlight. Get started risk free@greenlight.com iheart so in a podcast appearance with Dan Bongino, President Trump made some pretty wild comments about elections. Let's take a listen to that.
- [44:39]
C
These people were brought to our country to vote and they Vote illegally. And the, you know, amazing that the Republicans aren't tougher on it. The Republicans should say, say we want to take over. We should take over the voting, the voting in at least many 15 places. The Republicans ought to nationalize the voting. We have states that are so crooked and they're counting votes. We have states that I won that show. I didn't win. Now you're going to see something in Georgia where they were able to get with a court order, the ballots. You're going to see some interesting things come out.
- [45:14]
A
Now, if this was a one off, maybe you could just dismiss it as, you know, Trump doing Trump stuff and just, just saying some bullshit and not really backing it up. But we have a bunch of other things going on. Number one, as you guys know, because we reported here, they came in, FBI came in and seized all the ballots from 2020 in Fulton County, Georgia, which was of course the epicenter of a bunch of the stop the steal nonsense conspiracies after 2020. Furthermore, Tulsi Gabbard, the Director of National Intelligence, was there for some reason. So you have that. You have Pam Bondi sending a letter to the state of Minnesota saying basically, hey, we'll pull our federal agents out of the streets if you hand over your voter rolls. So using their sort of like federal occupation of the city of Minneapolis as a cudgel to try to extract the voter rolls from Minnesota. In addition, the Department of justice is suing 20 plus states for the same reason to try to acquire their voter rolls. Trump himself has indicated he does not believe that they are going to organically do well in the midterm elections. He pins that on just, oh, the party in power never does well, etc. So he's aware that he has an electoral problem here. You couple that, of course, with the fact that this is the same man who did try to steal the 2020 election. And we all watched how that played out and told the New York Times recently that he regrets he didn't go further and have the National Guard seize the ballot boxes in 2020. When you put it all together, Sagar, I would say it paints a pretty disturbing picture.
- [46:43]
D
No, we're in crazy town. We're in straight crazy town. Let's put the next one up here on the screen. Trump had unusual call with FBI agents after election search. So Tulsi Gabbard, the Director of National Intelligence, brokered the call. And President Trump has directly questioned frontline agents on the inquiry. By the way, this has not been denied in terms of what happened behind closed doors, Tulsi Gabbard, the DNI met with some of the FBI agents of the Field Bureau office in Atlanta conducting the election inquiry. They could not say why she was there, but her continued presence has raised eyebrows. Shortly after the raid, the president addressed the agents on speakerphone, asking them questions, as well as praising and thanking them for their work on the inquiry. Call lasted for some one minute. I think more importantly, what it does highlight is Tulsi's own role in all of this. And in fact, we do have a more recent notification from Tulsi Gabbard to Congress. What it shows here is they say in the letter to lawmakers in a congressional inquiry as to why she even participated in the raid on Fulton county, that she has the power under federal law to analyze intelligence related to election security. So they say in the 12 FBI field offices across the country. The domestic DNI rep program was established through an MOU with the ODNI and the FBI. I have visited several of these representatives across the country and in that capacity is what she participated in. What I noted as well is that Tulsi Gabbard has been significantly shut out of this administration as of late. So on Venezuela, they said that the DNI should stand for Do Not Invite. She had her heyday a few months ago whenever she was part of the. Remember the whole Obamagate thing. They said this is the biggest conspiracy in American history and that Obama was gonna get get indicted for treason. Quite literally nothing happened as a result of that. I am looking at this in particular a lot of her more recent actions. This is a way for her to get into his good graces. Not just good graces, but to re raise her profile within maga. This is a constant theme in the Trump White House is that when you need to get back into Trump's good graces, you satisfy and are willing to do the absolute craziest shit that nobody else is willing to touch. And that's exactly basically what has happened here. But look, people should freak out. Like we should not minimize it. This is crazy because this is the literally the whole national voting thing. We could talk in the abstract. It's kind of like the third term. I'm like, yeah, sure, I agree. Our election systems and all of that are antiquated, ridiculous. I do think there should be federal standards. We could put all of that to the side. The problem in this case is that this is purely resolved not only of the imagination, but very specific subset of like MAGA and Stop the Steal, which usually wants to belie all of, like, this is. You know, I've talked about high iq, Stop the steal, which is my. Oh, yes, we should have federal election standards and voter id. Fine, whatever. Okay. You know, yeah, cool. But this is not what that is, right?
- [49:44]
A
Like, not what Trump is talking about.
- [49:45]
D
Venezuelan dominions. We talked a lot about this during Stop the Steel. It's like, guys, no, no, that's. He doesn't mean the Pennsylvania Supreme Court changed mail in ballots. Like, he actually thinks that somebody wrote in, you know, fake ballots or whatever based on bamboo that were shipped by Venezuelan Chinese dominions. Like, that's what they actually think. And they have photos there posed, for example, with Sidney Powell or the Rudy Giuliani case where everybody pursued now previously. So that's the direction that this is all heading in, and it's not good.
- [50:12]
A
Yeah, I mean, I guess the. The most optimistic reading is that this is just confined to 2020 and has nothing to do with the 2026 elections. Honestly, I think you'd have to be pretty Pollyanna Ish and a fool to really believe that. Now, will they be able to pull off some sort of major disruption that is sufficient enough to stop. You know, we're gonna talk about what happened in Texas. Like, things are not looking great for the Republicans in terms of how they're likely to perform in the midterm elections. So will the elections be, quote, unquote, quote, too big to rig? That is certainly a possibility. You know, I mean, they have been. They have. Have had their sales trimmed in certain instances previously in this administration where they haven't been able to fulfill their most maximalist goals for a variety of reasons, usually involving the stock market. But in any case. So I'm not saying it's like, it's over, democracy's dead, et cetera, but you should be taking this as seriously as you possibly can. I wanted to mention Seymour Hershey wrote a substack about the midterm elections, and the overall thrust of his article was that, you know, they're not in great standing politically with the electorate and are likely to face significant midterm losses. But he included this reporting in there, and I wanted to mention it because, you know, he has been right about a lot in the past. He says that Stephen Miller was the author of an earlier proposal to use local National Guard troops to disrupt the midterm elections in critical states if polling predicted the Republican Party would lose the House. That suggestion, given the current negative polling in the fiasco in Minneapolis, is now dead in the water. So he says that's something that Stephen Miller had floated. Now, that's not looking like they could pull that off. Another plan that has been discussed in the White House is to disrupt a future presidential election when Vice President J.D. vance might be the candidate in case of a loss at the polls. It was conceived by John Eastman. You guys remember him, the disbarred lawyer. He is currently appealing his disbarment in California, who also thought up the failed plan after Trump's election last to 2020 to have Vice President Pence, as the president of the Senate, exercise his legal authority, rejects certified state electors and electoral votes for the presidency. I was told Eastman's new scheme recently, the subject of informal discussions at the White House, calls for sympathetic election officials in states where the Democratic candidates win simply to delay or refuse to submit the electoral votes at the time mandated by the Constitution. Eastman's notion is to find a way to avoid the to void the electoral votes from states with a large Democratic plurality so that the number of electoral votes needed to claim the presidency is low enough to turn a losing Republican candidate into a president. So at the very least, this reporting suggests that there are some serious conversations going on, seriously, radical conversations going on at the White House with regards both to the midterm elections and to 2028 state. Let's talk a little bit specifically about put C4 up on the screen about what the plan may be in Fulton county in particular. This was a piece from Greg Bluestein. Could the FBI raid in Fulton set the stage for takeover of counties elections? Now, I want you guys to understand Greg Bluestein is a straight news reporter, okay? This is not, you know, some lefty conspiracy or liberal resistance, tinfoil hat conspiracy. This is based on a law that was passed in the state of Georgia in the wake of 2020 that gives the Republican dominated legislature the ability to take control of county election boards in the event of there's like a series of triggers and one of them is some sort of investigation into malfeasance. So the idea here laid out by Greg is that that this FBI raid in and of itself could be the predicate for Trump allied Republicans in the state, which, by the way, the state election board is now dominated by hardcore Trump loyalists. For them to take over control of Fulton county elections. If Republicans are able to effectively rig Fulton county and make sure that the Democratic vote is significantly depressed enough, it is game over for Democrats in the state of Georgia because the vast bulk of their votes come from Fulton County. This is Atlanta, Georgia, right? This is the heavy population center, it's heavily Democratic and they have to run up the score there in order to win the state. John Ossoff is, you know, senator from Georgia. He's on the ballot. He's probably the most sort of endangered Democratic incumbent in the Senate. So he is putting out here that this could very well be the plan. And when he talked to some of the board members on the State Board of Elections and other people who are, you know, relevant to this, they would not rule out the possibility. And one said, yeah, this is something that we are looking at. So with Fulton county in particular, I think this could be the plan that they're going with here.
- [54:59]
D
Yeah. So like you said, I looked into the specifics. The state, Georgia State Election Board has to appoint and superintendent to run that county's election. Now, currently, we should remember that the Georgia Secretary of State is actually the chair of the board and only votes in a tie. That's Brad Raffensperger, who was famous from that previous time period. And it's still kind of an open question, at least for two of these people who would be appointed by the House and the Senate. Don't forget, Georgia does also have a significant number of Republicans who broke with Trump on Stop the Steal and previously not just broke one reelection, including from their governor, Brad Raffensperger and others. But no, we should lay out the possibility because. Because what the point is around this trigger is that all they need is something called evidence of dysfunction. Even if no wrongdoing is proved now to be. I mean, technically, you know, this is Georgia state law. Right. In the way that this is all written, the question is whether the FBI seizure and eventual case would then be able to be brought to the state superintendent be appointed, and whether any of this is going to withstand court challenge. Remember too that evidence of dysfunction from what I read, has to be evidence on its face. And in many cases, Trump and his administration has undermined much of their cases because they will undermine, let's say, the facts while saying, no, this is a political decision to try to take over, which of course would spell problems for them at a federal law or, sorry, at a state law level when it would face. This is not going to just be quietly into the night. This is gonna be heavily litigated if something like this does happen.
- [56:34]
A
And Trump making that congratulatory call to the FBI agents that saga was talking. That does not help the administration's case that this was some neutral fact finding mission. One more piece here that is very weird. Put C3 up on the screen. So this is regard to Tulsi Gabbard. This was reported by the Wall Street Journal. They say that there's a classified whistleblower complaint about Tulsi Gabbard that is stalled within her agency. I'll read you a bit of this. US Intelligence official has alleged wrongdoing by Dni Tulsi Gabbard in a whistleblower complaint that is so highly classified it has sparked months of wrangling over how to share it with Congress. According to U.S. officials, the filing of the complaint has prompted a continuing behind the scenes struggle about how to assess and handle it, with the whistleblower's lawyer accusing Gabbard of stonewalling the complaint. Gabbard's office rejects that characterization, contending and is navigating a unique set of circumstances and working to resolve the issue. A cloak and dagger mystery reminiscent of a John Le Carre novel is swirling around the complaint, which is said to be locked in a safe disclosure of its contents could, quote, cause grave damage to national security, one official said. It also implicates another federal agency beyond Gabbards and raises potential claims of executive privilege that may involve the White House. The complaint was filed last May with the intelligence community's inspector general, according to a November letter. The letter, which was viewed by the Wall Street Journal, accused Gabbard's office of hindering the dissemination of the complaint to lawmakers by failing to provide necessary security guidance on how to do so. The Gabbard people are pointing to, and the administration is pointing to, there was an inspector general who assessed the claims. They found one to be not credible, the other one, they were unable to assess the validity of that claim. They appear on their face, the Trump administration to be in violation of requirements that they share this information with Congress. This was reported to them, you know, all the way back in May. And so there is a lot of intrigue surrounding whatever this thing is and why it is being so closely held that it can't be shared with Congress.
- [58:40]
D
Yeah, nobody. We're not really even sure if this is relevant to the election question. Like you said, it specifically said that the allegations specifically about Gabbard weren't credible, according to the inspector general. And this, by the way, one of.
- [58:51]
A
Them wasn't credible and the other one.
- [58:53]
D
They couldn't assess indeterminate. I'm skeptical only because I've seen enough of these whistleblower reports end up being bullshit and or like Russiagate level nonsense. Remember Ukraine gate under Donald Trump. But look how you can't put anything past the current administration. So I really have no idea what this entire thing is going to be also one of the reasons why one of the ways it worked in the first Trump administration is you would have these fake whistleblower complaints which would go to Congress and they would leak and it would be anonymous. It would be completely like a manufacturer scandal. So I genuinely have no clue what this is. I mean, the story is crazy because it's about being locked in a safe, and it does have all this spy novel characterization. I personally, look, the Fulton thing, there's no whistleblower complaint. It's out in the open. She's like, yeah, I'm involved, and I was available there. She even put her current Twitter bio as the photo of her on the phone. All right, there's no hiding this. Like, it's out in the open. This is, in my opinion, this is what there is to freak out about.
- [59:47]
A
Well, I mean, the reason it could connect is that if there is something that is real and that's damaging in this allegation, I mean, this is something that then Trump can use over Tulsi or that she would know that they have on her, so to speak. So, you know, that would make her much more willing to. I mean, this woman's already violated her supposed principles to the extent she ever had one in a million different ways. But in any case would provide additional pressure so that she's gonna be the face of this nonsense stuff, the steal stuff. And I mean, to my recollection, back in 2020, like, like, I mean, Tulsi supported Joe Biden in that election. She was not. She was not a stop the steal gal. I, you know, was not aware that she had made this turn, although, again, not surprising given that any other thing that she supposedly stood for, the past.
- [60:32]
D
She totally lost me whenever she did the whole Iran turn.
- [60:36]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [60:37]
D
And basically became Colin Powell.
- [60:39]
A
Or how about when Biden withdrew from Afghanistan and she didn't have anything positive to say?
- [60:43]
D
I mean, that was already. When she was on her return. That's when she was already becoming a Republican. Yeah, I'm looking at this. She hasn't. I was just asked ChatGPT for quotes. It doesn't look like she ever made a public declaration on Stop the Steal, but yeah, she supported. I mean, we interviewed her too many times not to know how she, you know, used to be.
- [61:00]
A
Yeah.
- [61:00]
D
So I don't know. I mean, one of the great lessons over the last five years is that people who you think are for real and will look you in the face, literally, let's say, in the Tulsi's case. And you believe that them, let's say, when. What they say, when they come into high office, apparently all of that just goes out the window. You can read about it in a book, which I have many times, but to experience it yourself, you're like, wow, okay, well, this is how easy it is to be manipulated.
- [61:23]
A
And I think we could both say, too, like, she's an odd one. She's an inscrutable character. She's an inscrutable character. So there isn't, you know, I don't know what's in this whistleblower complaint. I don't know if it's credible. I have no idea. But, you know, I don't put it out of bounds that there was some sort of weird something going on.
- [61:39]
D
Well, what I also saw with her was her highlighting her eccent character was proof positive that she didn't give a. That's why she was willing to buck on.
- [61:48]
A
That's the way I read it originally, too.
- [61:49]
D
She was like, I don't care. She's. I don't care about all these trap. Right. And that's why I was very attractive. After a while, you're like, wow. Like, this is a woman who really does not care about Washington establishment or anything, willing to say whatever's on her mind, like, take very unpopular positions. She stood up to Hillary. Whenever Hillary accused her of being a Russian asset. All this stuff. I really thought she was heroic. And, I mean, probably the person I changed my mind most about, like, coming into politics and especially getting to know her after a while. And then, you know, over the years, there are a few breadcrumbs, and I was like, that's a little weird. And then you go into the DNI thing. Okay, maybe it's like rfk. She has an agenda, really gonna be a fighter on certain issues. And then now we're here. Obama, Iran, Obamagate, and now this. You're like, oh, okay, you're just like everybody else.
- [62:34]
A
Yeah.
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- [64:35]
D
We can't wait to meet you. Store hours vary by location.
- [64:39]
A
This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.