← Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
2/9/26: New Epstein Revelations, Clintons To Testify, Bibi Pushes Iran War
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- [00:00]
Krystal Ball
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human at Lowe's get up to.
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Krystal Ball
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Krystal Ball
Loyalty programs subject to terms and conditions.
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Visit lowe's.com terms for details. Subject to change.
- [00:30]
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Visit your nearby Lowe's on Colorado street in Kennewick. Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available@public.com.
- [01:36]
Saagar Enjeti
Hey, this is US.
- [01:37]
Krystal Ball
Olympic gold medalist Tara Davis Woodhull and.
- [01:39]
Saagar Enjeti
I'm US Paralympic gold medalist Hunter Woodhull.
- [01:41]
Krystal Ball
As athletes, our lives are about having.
- [01:43]
Saagar Enjeti
A clear path and a team that you can absolutely trust. So when it came to getting the best mortgage, we chose PennyMac. PennyMac is proud to be the official mortgage provider of Team USA and you learn more at pennymac.com PennyMac Loan Services, LLC equal housing lender NMLS ID 35953 licensed by the Department of Financial Protection and Innovation under the California Residential Mortgage Lending Act. Conditions and restrictions may apply. Hey guys, Sagar and Krystal here.
- [02:07]
Krystal Ball
Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.
- [02:14]
Saagar Enjeti
This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not.
- [02:19]
Krystal Ball
Exist anywhere else so if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.
- [02:31]
Saagar Enjeti
We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breaking points.com. good morning everybody. Happy Monday. Have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have? Crystal?
- [02:43]
Krystal Ball
Indeed we do. So apparently the government drafted an announcement of Epstein's death dated the day before he died. I am not kidding. Like this is the down the rabbit hole, through the looking glass moment if we weren't already there. So we'll break that down for you as long as, as well as some other revelations, powerful people that were involved, there's some important reporting that's going on here. Bibi Netanyahu coming back to Washington yet again and once again to beg for war with Iran. So we will take a look at that. Even Republicans have been uncomfortable with the stunningly racist video that President Trump posted. Initially. The White House walked back, he doubled down. What does it say about him, about our politics, etc. We're going to take a look at the super bowl through the lens of sports betting. Just how much was wagered, were there, was there insider trading? You will never guess what the answer to that one is. Olympians are speaking out and getting backlash from the right. And we're going to be joined in studio by Dan Osborne. He is an independent candidate for candidate for Senate in Nebraska. He ran previously, came quite close and he is giving it another shot. There are some very significant commerce and monopoly issues in Nebraska that are ground zero for that. So we are excited to meet him in person and get to speak with him.
- [03:54]
Saagar Enjeti
Yes.
- [03:54]
Krystal Ball
And we're going to be doing the AMA today. So if you want to be part of those live AMAs, make sure you sign up@breakingpoints.com Sagar that's right.
- [04:01]
Saagar Enjeti
Thank you to everybody who has been supporting the show. We are starting off with Epstein with some very, very wild stuff. Almost certain that eventually we'll get hit with a demonetization. That's why we rely on our premium subscribers. All of this Epstein coverage, we understand, you know, it makes advertisers and all those other people uncomfortable. Luckily, we don't rely on that. We rely on all of you. So support us if you are able to. BreakingPoints.com if you're just watching this on YouTube, no worries. Please just hit subscribe to our YouTube channel if you're listening to this on a podcast, please share an episode with a friend and rate us 5 stars. Really helps other people find the show. All right, let's go ahead and start here with Epstein. There was a ad actually released by many of the Epstein survivors. We're going to go and put it up here on the screen just so you can see some of this in the background. Many of them appearing on camera. They're saying on November 19, 2025, the Epstein files act was signed. They cross out the line transparency. They say 3 million files have still not yet been released. They have black, you know, marks over their mouths. They're talking there about one of the largest sex trafficking conspiracies which has now been unveiled for everybody. And calling more of the release of the files holding up pictures of themselves. It highlights of course, some of the central most important people in all of this story. But most importantly, I think for all of our purposes and they're asking their stand with us. It's time for Attorney General Pam Bondi to tell the truth. Let's do though continue now down the rabbit hole. As Crystal said, genuinely unbelievable stuff. Let's go and put this up here on the screen. One of the most stunning documents yet that was uncovered. Great find for whoever was able to see this. Cause I would not have been able to, they say, you know, couldn't believe this was real. So I double checked the dog website. The U.S. attorney Berman announced Epstein's death with letterhead dated the day before that he was found dead. Bill Barr announced Berman's resignation. Then less than a year later, Berman denied he was resigning and was then removed by Barr. On June 20, 2020, Trump denied any involvement. But it was confirmed later in the reporting that in fact Trump, who had Berman removed. The rabbit hole is endless. This is from Clint Russell, one of the people who flagged this. And I mean, I do think it is genuinely unbelie. Immediate release Friday, August 9, 2019 now you could potentially ask for innocent explanations, but the Department of Justice has not released anything as of yet. This information has been public now for 48 hours or so. And you do have to just be like, okay, I mean, you know, look, I feel like I try to keep all my words very carefully. I'm always like, I always say Epstein died. I don't say he was killed. I don't say he committed suicide. It's just one of those like open questions and we don't really know what the answer is. We have the video which was released of showing another person going towards the cell. I mean, you have. The guards were asleep, the cameras weren't working. There's actually a routine way where the camera resets every single night for some reason, according to the Attorney General. You've got the cellmate questions. You've got the former guy who was in the mcc, who's been on our show and is like, sorry, there's no way any of that happened. And so you would actually be, in my opinion, the most responsible to be like, yeah, he probably was killed. I still don't say it because I don't know it definitively to be true. See, something like this, you're like, all right, yeah. What else do you say?
- [07:13]
Krystal Ball
If it was the only thing? And you didn't even. I mean, you didn't go through even the whole list, because we'd be here all day. There's the fact that, oh, we never found the noose that was used. What do you mean? He was in a tiny jail cell. What do you mean we never found the noose that was. He was, you know, allegedly hung himself with. Oh, there happens to have been this orange blurry figure that we all pretended that the Attorney General, Inspector General, that they all pretended didn't exist when they did their report on this. Oh, that's interesting. What's going with that? And then you have this. I mean, if it was the only thing.
- [07:44]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, right, exactly.
- [07:45]
Krystal Ball
If it was the only thing, you could go, maybe they just got the date wrong. Maybe they just were being a little bit sloppy and they got the date wrong. But when you look at this and you look at everything else, and then, oh, lo and behold, this guy, the U.S. attorney Berman, was fired under very strange and contentious circumstances less than a year later. You just gotta look at this and go, like. I mean, it becomes very, very, very hard to believe the official narrative. And, of course, a million people had plenty of motive to take this guy out. The other thing that we learned that we talked about before is that his team was Cooper. They were looking at, hey, maybe we can cooperate. Maybe we can name some names. Maybe we can do a deal here. So quite to the contrary of Epstein feeling like I have no way out, and this is it for me. I'm gonna spend the rest of my life, which I'm very used to these coddled circumstances. I'm gonna spend the rest of my life behind bars. He was still exploring avenues and trying to work it and see what kind of a deal he could make. So, I don't know, guys, this is just absolutely wild. The one thing so this is identical to the official announcement that did ultimately go out from the government with two exceptions. Number one, the date got updated to the day that he died. Number two, which at this point I'm like, maybe the conspiracies about him still being alive, maybe that's a possibility. I mean, it's so wild that I literally cannot rule anything out at this point. So the date gets updated and then the other thing that was added is that he was dead by apparent suicide. Those words got added in. Otherwise it's identical to what ultimately went out.
- [09:26]
Saagar Enjeti
Right. So, okay, and remember this. I mean, it's very possible. I mean, there's some potential about planning. But the thing is, is that you look at some of the timing for all of this. The last guard check was on 10:50pm on that Friday night. There was no check until 6am this is according to the official narrative. So official narrative should be that nobody knew he was dead until some 6am so it's not even some time zone thing that you could argue. Like if you go back and you check the timeline again, according to the official timeline, nobody was supposed to know until about six. So if that's the case, then there's no way that you could have drafted it in the. Like you said. Also, they added the term of parent suicide. We didn't even mention Michael Bottom in the autopsy. That's actually one of the most. That was one of the first things that convinced me where I was like, oh, man. I mean, this is Michael Bottom, right. He came out. Yes, I know he's hired by the family, but look, he released his own findings. Talking about the hyoid bone and the way that it would look if it was a strangulation versus a hang. We can't put these photos up there because it's too graphic. But you can actually see the photos of the care that was for him after he had been found dead. And you can see the mark on his neck. And you know, one of the speculations. Was it a sheet? I'm telling you, I saw the mark. It's not a sheet. Like, there's no way that that would have left a mark that. Like that. And that's just, you know, my. Maybe I'm wrong. You could send me different ones, you know, if you find something else. But it's just one of those where I think it is just, just absolutely, absolutely crazy. Let's go to the next one.
- [10:56]
Krystal Ball
Insane.
- [10:56]
Saagar Enjeti
We're going to continue in the. You know, this is. Things are getting more unhinged as we go. The Government put boxes covered in a sheet inside of a vehicle to trick the media pretending that it was Epstein's body. It says due to the large news media presence outside the mcc, a male OCME official called and said he would be arriving at the loading dock with a black vehicle in order to thwart the media and use boxes and sheets to create what appeared to be a human body, which was then put into the white vehicle, which the press followed, allowing the black vehicle to depart unnoticed with Epstein's body. So, yeah, that's where.
- [11:28]
Krystal Ball
Why on the cloak and dagger, right? Yeah, why. Why is it such a problem for the media to follow the body? Why is that such an issue? You've got. Is this typical procedure?
- [11:37]
Saagar Enjeti
Exactly.
- [11:37]
Krystal Ball
In high profile cases that you have.
- [11:39]
Saagar Enjeti
If he's dead, why do you care about traffic? I mean, I know this sounds insane, but it's true. Like, this actually is true. You can go and check the file names. Go for yourself if you want to. And you know, we double checked on some of this. All right, so this is another totally crazy one. Let's put it up here. So, as the flag, on the same day that they opened a child sex trafficking case Against Epstein in 2018, he ordered half a dozen 55 gallon containers full of sulfuric acid to his private island. So what's up with that? And look again, I'm reading the wire transfer form to St. Thomas LSJELC. Purpose and description times 6:55 gal. Drums, sulfuric acid with fuel and insurance charge for transport, materials for conductivity probes, replacement pH and cable RO plant. I don't know. I mean, maybe there's an explanation. You have private jets all around. I don't know a whole lot about acid and all this other stuff. I have read a decent number of the plans around the island and know they waste water. You know, again, I'm not an expert. I'm just saying, like, that's one of those where you put it together and you're like, yeah, it's pretty creepy. It's pretty weird. Especially when you have massage rooms with masks, you know, all over the island you have trap doors, as one does. So this is apparently a photo that surfaced where it was some trap door that was there on the. Which apparently opens directly into the ocean. So again, I mean, what are the innocent explanation here? This is where they're dumping waste. This is where they're dumping something. You know, I don't know, some sort of maintenance. Yeah, maintenance, access something under. If you also own a private island, please email me and tell me about what it's. I'm not familiar about what it's.
- [13:37]
Krystal Ball
Tell us about your sulfuric acid an ocean trapdoor needs on your private island. We're very curious.
- [13:44]
Saagar Enjeti
Who among us doesn't have ocean trapdoors in our house? I've stayed at some hotels on the beach. Not that great, but they don't usually have trapdoors. Again, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe every five star resort in the nation on a beach has trapdoors into the sea. Maybe. It's certainly possible. Maybe it's a scuba diving thing. Maybe it's a way to access your septic tank. Although I guess that wouldn't even make a lot of sense. I'm purely spiff. I'm just telling you that these are the facts and this is what apparently shows up there. So you know this is presented without comment because I don't have a comment. I don't know why else. I don't know why you would need one.
- [14:18]
Krystal Ball
I mean you said in our pitch that advertisers get uncomfortable with this. Look, in fairness to them, I get uncomfortable with this too because it's like what was like what am I supposed to make of this? What is a sane and rational non hysterical person supposed to make of this? It becomes increasingly difficult to not look at all these emails, the way they talk to each other, all of these weird things surrounding his death. The emails where they say oh did you torture. I love the torture videos, et cetera, all the code words and not think that the even that it is even darker and even more elaborate and that he was even more powerful than I ever could have imagined.
- [15:00]
Ad Voice 2
Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comDisclosures Military life.
- [16:01]
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- [17:32]
Krystal Ball
To your point about, you know, putting all the all the different things together that you're like, well that's weird. Well that's weird. Well that's weird. Well, you're gonna put it all together. It's really freaking weird. Another piece of that is the way that the government has behaved recall okay, so now we're supposed we supposedly we've gotten all the Epstein files we're gonna get right According to the government now Thomas Massie, Ro Khanna and others are continuing to push. Massie is being very aggressive. We'll talk a little bit more about that in a moment. But just remember what Kash Patel told you. He told you that he looked at the files and he is convinced without a shadow of a doubt that Epstein killed himself and that this was proven definitively by the files that Kash Patel looked at. Have we Seen those files. What was it that you were looking at that was so persuasive to you that you went out in public and said, nothing to see here. We're moving on. Let's go ahead and remind ourselves exactly what he said. This is day six. Let's play that you told me when.
- [18:28]
Ad Voice 2
We last talked, this is eight months.
- [18:29]
Saagar Enjeti
Ago, when we did an interview at.
- [18:31]
Ad Voice 2
The FBI in Quantico, that you were.
- [18:33]
Saagar Enjeti
Convinced that Epstein killed himself in jail today, eight months after that, are you still convinced? Yes. 100%. Yes, sir. There's no credible information. None. If there were, I would bring the case yesterday that he trafficked to other individuals. And the information we have, again, is limited.
- [18:51]
Krystal Ball
So the answer is no one, for.
- [18:54]
Saagar Enjeti
The information that we have in the files, in the case file.
- [18:59]
Krystal Ball
So he absolutely killed himself, Sagar, and he didn't traffic anyone, any girl to anyone.
- [19:06]
Saagar Enjeti
That there is nothing that has been released where you can definitively say he killed himself, which is what Cash Patel said. Cash Patel said. He definitively, if anything, like we said with the video, we got this thing. We had all of the preponderance of evidence prior. You had all of the holes in the investigation. You had the. I mean, the doj, even the doj initial report around the sleeping guards and all this. None of that shit made any sense, period. But don't listen to me. Listen to cash in 2020. He's the one who said all of this, and he had his hands on all of this information. And this is all eventually that he came up with on the second part about involving others. I mean, there's nothing that has been a definitive smoking gun. And we should all be honest about that. There are some, like, look, what are the threads that we would all tug on? Oh, I don't know. All these wire transfers to Russia. I don't know. All of these, you know, photos of creepy old dudes with their collars open, smoking cigarettes on the couch with a bunch of women chasing girls around the kitchen. Oh, let's continue. Prince Andrew. I don't. Can you even say, hovering, like, trapping this girl underneath him? Were they really there under their own volition? Maybe. But, you know, I was talking to Scott Horton about this, and I was like, look, I know libertarians think that it's not a crime. And apparently the current justification is, like, well, they wanted to be there and they were getting paid. I'm like, you know, it is actually a crime, though, to, like, send a wire transfer to a foreign country and fly women in for the express purpose of having to say, like, that's actually literally sex trafficking. Like, not regardless of their weight.
- [20:39]
Krystal Ball
Regardless of their weight.
- [20:40]
Saagar Enjeti
And, you know, in Russia, as you may all learn, or Ukraine, it's not like all these girls are willing in the sense that they want, you know, that like liberal sex worker types always try to pretend like sometimes they get kidnapped, sometimes their family or whatever is threatened. Like it's not a willing enterprise. So just putting that out there.
- [20:59]
Krystal Ball
Or they're told they're going to be models.
- [21:01]
Saagar Enjeti
Right, that's what I'm saying.
- [21:02]
Krystal Ball
And they get to come to the US on this special visa and they're, you know, they're gonna be in high fashion. And then next thing you know, I mean, this is is known, like this is reported out the way that modeling agencies were used as pipelines for trafficking girls. And, you know, and these guys were like Epstein and Trump, by the way, deeply enmeshed in these modeling agencies and clearly using that as a path to gain access to girls and women.
- [21:27]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah. Oh, wait. Wow. This just. Just broke from the UK press. News story on Prince Andrew. Sorry, the former former prince known as Andrew. Now police are assessing if Andrew Mountbatten Windsor shared confidential reports from his role as the UK trade envoy with Jeffrey Epstein. US Department of Justice appears to show Andrew sharing reports in 2010 with Epstein of his official visits to Hong Kong, Vietnam and Singapore. Wow.
- [21:52]
Krystal Ball
And this comes on the heels of Lord Mandelson and it being revealed and he's under investigation now for providing inside information from inside the UK government directly to Epstein, tradable information that he was providing directly to Epstein in the Midst of the 2008 financial crisis crisis and plotting with him and, you know, to try to see what, you know, how they could loop Jamie Dimon in to put pressure on the government to make sure this, like, banker bonus limit thing didn't go through. So, yeah, I mean, that would be it. It shows you too, like all the questions about how he made his money. Clearly, clearly insider trading was some significant component of that. And then you can see with the Bill Gates, you know, email he sent to himself, the way that he would get something over, like, not over on someone, but he would gather some sort of compromising information on them. And then if they tried to back away from the financial relationship, it was like, oh, no, no, no. Let me just, you know, subtly and not so subtly remind you of the various things I know about you and the way that I can destroy your life, your brand, your marriage, your family, whatever.
- [22:55]
Saagar Enjeti
Let's continue, shall we? By the way, again, To Cash's whole point about how nobody else was found to be implicated. Let's put AA please up there on the screen. You can see inside of this document. This was a great flag by this journalist. They say buried in the footnote of the Ghislaine Maxwell's court filing. She makes the bombshell claim that there were 25 accomplices of Jeffrey Epstein entered into secret settlements and that there are four unnamed employee co conspirators. That's almost certainly his secretaries. The fact is Maxwell is no longer content with the conditions of her confinement. She has tasted this glimpse of freedom and appears determined to push for more. After losing her appeal in the Supreme Court, she has filed habeas corpus. This is the legal equivalent of a last resort. It asks the court to overturn the conviction on the grounds that it's so fundamentally unfair or unconstitutional and can't stand. So just to show that she has a lot of other stuff that she can point to and in that petition that 25 accomplices, she also asserts that the four Epstein employees were co conspirators and never charged like herself. If you will all remember, this is tracing back to the non prosecution agreement. But if you combine this with some of the other reporting, let's put a 7 up there on the screen. Just to give you an example, the FBI at one point had actually posted a 21 page presentation of all the evidence they've gathered in the case, including a summary of allegations against 11 men. The list was then taken down after this was flagged by Julie K. Brown over at the Miami Herald. So just to show you again, like the idea that the FBI didn't have information, maybe they didn't have prosecutable information. I'm just telling you though that at this moment the idea that they did not have information or potential leads and all of that on various is just completely not true.
- [24:33]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, completely not true. You won't be surprised at a number of the names in here. And one of the names identified by the FBI as a prominent man for whom significant allegations had been leveled against was President Trump. So look, to your point, does any of this, like is this meet the evidentiary standard that would have to hold up in court? No, it doesn't appear based on what we have publicly. Were these things investigated, you know, what happened with all these tips? Were they investigated? Where's that information? Were you able to dispel all of, you know, these allegations against all of these various powerful men? And then I think the Ghislaine Maxwell thing is worth dwelling on, because again, where does she sit right now? She sits in a Club Fed minimum security prison that's supposed to be for white collar criminals. She is not supposed to be there at all as a sexual sex offender, number one. Number two, even within that, she's getting all kinds of special cushy treatment with her puppy and her access to, you know, electronic communications and her private ability to wander the grounds by herself and get visitors. And the warden saying that he's sick of being her bitch. Okay, so she is playing some sort of a game here. And now this, to me, reads like a shot across the bow, right? Who are these 25 men that apparently struck deals, according, according to her, in this legal filing, that apparently struck deals with the. With our government to be able to, you know, make this whole thing go away? Who are they and why did our government have an interest in striking those deals with those individuals? If, if what she is alleging here is true, that would be a second offense, a significant thing to know. Thomas Massie, I believe today, says that he is going to be reviewing a number of the unredacted files. He's supposed to have access to the entire cache of unredacted files. And he was asking people, okay, what should I look for in this limited time that I have to go in? So he's continuing to push forward. And let's go ahead and take a listen to the aggressive posture he is taking. He's saying he will use the nuclear option if the DOJ refuses to unredact the names of. Of, you know, the powerful men that are associated with this. Because, remember, in this release, according to the law that Massie and Khanna pushed through and were able to get passed and signed into law by President Trump, there are very limited reasons that you are allowed, legally permitted to redact. Okay. They have clearly gone far beyond that while screwing up and leaving unredacted a number of the victims names and likenesses. So let's go ahead and take a listen to Thomas Massie and the way he's continuing to try to fight here?
- [27:14]
Thomas Massie
I'm ready to do that if the.
- [27:16]
Saagar Enjeti
Victims want me to.
- [27:17]
Thomas Massie
They believe that the best way to.
- [27:19]
Saagar Enjeti
Get justice is to force the DOJ to release these names. I've already read one name in a committee with the FBI director there. That's Jess Staley. And again, he may or may not be guilty, but he's been accused by these victims. That the lawyer tells me. And there are other names. I don't have them in my possession. But if the victims want to Give them to me.
- [27:42]
Ad Voice 1
I've expressed that I'm willing to do that.
- [27:45]
Thomas Massie
But again, the best way is to.
- [27:46]
Saagar Enjeti
Force the DOJ to release those names on those 302 forms.
- [27:50]
Krystal Ball
And I just can't give enough credit to both Ricotta. But Thomas Massie, I mean, he is taking so much incoming from president, from AIPAC over his unwillingness to sign on to these like Zionist speech codes. He was, I don't know if you saw this video floating around. He was back in Kentucky at an olden county, which is like a suburb of Louisville, Republican Party event. And he was speaking and he was saying some just very basic things about how he doesn't serve any one party, he serves the people of the country. And they pulled his mic from him. So clearly he has really touched a nerve. And the fact that he's a Republican and he has a large following too and like a lot of, you know, credibility. And I think people like myself who don't agree with him on any number of issues, like we're night and day when it comes to economics, for example, you have to respect this man and his integrity because he is truly risking, you know, risking it all here to, to push for the truth and to push for more transparency.
- [28:48]
Saagar Enjeti
It's a very rare breed, very rare breed in Washington. And yeah, I mean, I've come, I have disagreed with him plenty, plenty of times in the past, but, but on this, it's just, it's unbelievable to see somebody stand and you know, really, this is what the House is for. You need an Ilhan Omar, you need a Thomas Massie. That's what the House is designed for, is to, you know, have the actual full spectrum and they end up sometimes being our best members. So there you go.
- [29:13]
Ad Voice 2
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- [30:14]
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- [31:22]
Saagar Enjeti
The next part here. This is about Ghislaine Maxwell and her relationship with the Clintons. Let's put this up here on the screen. Epstein files reveal scope of Ghislaine Maxwell's role in the Clinton circle and specifically raising some $1 million for the Clinton Global Initiative. And they specifically say that she took part in the budget discussions related to the first CGI conference, talked through challenges with both Clinton Aid, the company that produced the inaugural event, and arranged to wire a million dollars quote for the work on the Clinton project. The source of the money is unclear, including whether Mr. Epstein provided the funds. However, the emails show that he was aware of the payment. Epstein at one point wrote to her, quote ask him to tell you why I million now and where it will be going. So maybe it was his money, wasn't it? All of this is took involvement took place in 2004 before the 06 indictment. But it shows how deeply, I mean remember this is a woman invited literally to the Clinton wedding in that infamous photo and how deeply she was enmeshed with the Clinton family who after you know, they lose The White House or after they lose in 2000, or I get sorry, not lose, but they leave the White House. They're obsessed with one thing. How do I become generationally wealthy as quickly as humanly possible and whitewash my image from the Lewinsky scandal? So what do they do? Hillary runs for Senate. She becomes the carpetbagger in chief from New York. And Bill who moves to New York is like, I'm gonna double down on all this humanitarian work with my Clinton Global Initiative. Except the Clinton Global Initiative, I covered so much of this during the Clinton campaign, becomes a slush fund, basically for the Hillary administration in waiting, wiring tens of millions of dollars from across the globe. In many cases, you know, different governments are sending them money expressly to set up meetings with Hillary because she was the former Secretary of State. She's gonna become potentially the next president, which is what everybody thought back in 2016. And Clinton himself also used it as a reputational machine which he can fly across the world private, you know, in jets for the rest of his life, basically for humanitarian work. Ghislaine Maxwell Epstein, very critical nodes in all of that. Sourcing sketchy money. That's what they do. So this just proves already the depth of their relationship with, which, of course, we did know that. But it's pretty amazing to see Epstein there being like, yeah, ask him, you know, ask him to tell you why I'm sending you a million dollars. Like, that's crazy, crazy stuff.
- [33:43]
Krystal Ball
It's interesting in all of this. I mean, clearly Ghislaine was really on the inside with the Clintons.
- [33:49]
Saagar Enjeti
Yes, she was.
- [33:49]
Krystal Ball
And Epstein recognized obviously that this is another powerful, you know, node of power that he wants to be in with. And so, you know, the CGI money and fostering this relationship appears to have been a strategic play from him. Unsurprising. And the other thing that's interesting in this reporting is that. And again, this is not surprising, but it's interesting to see it lay down. Bill Clinton saw Davos and how much influence it had and how powerful it was and what a brand builder it was. And he was like, ah, that's what I wanna do. I wanna do my own version of Davos with, like a liberal, more overtly liberal humanitarian bent, rather than. Davos is focused around, like, business elites exclusively. He's like, let me do that. I'll have the business elites, but I'll also have, like the global humanitarian class as well. And so that's really the birth of the Clinton Global Initiative. So not only did they want to amass Money, but they also wanted to amass power and be the central node in this sort of like global influence network. That was the whole thing. So, of course Jeffrey Epstein's gonna want to get involved with that, right? He's like, this is my whole bag. This is what I do. Let me see how I can get myself involved here. Now, the other thing to keep in mind is like Sagar was saying Ghislaine being there at Chelsea's wedding. And weren't Hillary and Bill at Trump and Melania's wedding as well? Yeah, like, and Ivanka and Chelsea were friends. You know, we think of them as these bitter rivals. They were in the same social circles. They were going to each other's events, supporting each other's things, going to each other's weddings, et cetera. They are all part of the same class, the Epstein class. And Ryan was saying, in some ways, the class solidarity of the billionaires and the global elites is rather inspiring. They really are there for each other. They really have this tight knit network. And I think that's important for all of us to keep in mind. And that came out very clearly in this recent Trump comment where he gets asked about Bill Clinton. Now, the backstory here is Clinton has been subpoenaed to come testify before Congress. Initially he was saying, no, I'm not going to do it. And I guess was willing to risk jail time the way Steve Bannon went to prison for refusing to appear in spite of being subpoenaed. He has now changed his mind. We can put this up on the screen and say, okay, fine, I will testify. And he says here, I have called for the full release of the Epstein files. I provided a sworn statement of what I know just this week. I've agreed to appear in person before the committee. Still not enough for Republicans on the House Oversight Committee, he goes on to say. Now Chairman Comer says he wants cameras, but only behind closed doors. Who benefits from this arrangement? It's not Epstein's victims who deserve justice, not the public who deserve the truth serves only partisan interest. This is not fact finding. It's pure politics. I will not sit idly as they use me as a prop in a closed door kangaroo court by Republican Party running scared. If they want answers, let's stop the games and do this the right way. In a public hearing where the American people can see for themselves what this is really about. So Bill Clinton is set to testify after having been subpoenaed. And again, Clinton, Trump, same circles, same contacts, et cetera. Big question what Bill might be able to say about Trump and his associates and what exactly is going on with this whole Epstein situation. And so now when Trump gets asked about Bill Clinton, about Hillary Clinton, suddenly they're good people, actually. Actually really, really kind of like these guys. Let's take a listen to that.
- [37:21]
Thomas Massie
It bothers me that somebody's going after Bill Clinton.
- [37:24]
Saagar Enjeti
See, I like Bill Clinton. I still like Bill Clinton. What do you like about him? I liked. Well, I liked his behavior toward me.
- [37:32]
Thomas Massie
I thought he got me.
- [37:33]
Saagar Enjeti
He understood me.
- [37:36]
Krystal Ball
I like Bill Clinton. He understood me. He says, Hillary, she's a very accomplished woman. Ultimately, you know, very different. Sort of reminds of when he got asked about Ghislaine Maxwell in the first administration. He said, you know what? I wish her well.
- [37:49]
Saagar Enjeti
Well, first of all, I do want to say I support Bill Clinton for public publicly testifying. I support that 100%. Let's do it on the.
- [37:55]
Krystal Ball
Absolutely.
- [37:56]
Saagar Enjeti
With the camera. And there's nothing better to see. Bill, look, he's smart. You know, he's. He's a wily. A wily fox. He. He had plenty of Lewinsky dodging. And white. What was that scandal? White? Is it Whitewater, man, It's. It's a throwback. It's been the Rose Law Firm. Google it if you're interested. If you want to go relax some of the 1990s. But the whole point with the Clintons, obviously, is that I'm glad that they're gonna testify publicly. And ultimately, it's nice that they are being forced to actually. Actually have to come and answer some questions. But, you know, the bigger point is it reminds me of that George Carlin quote. Like, it's a big club and you're not in it. And that's really what it is actually all about. And it's like that famous photo of George W. Bush in that selfie with Michelle Obama. And they're like, kindness. I'm like, no, there's nothing cool about that. Like, sorry, no, actually, like Bush. No, there's. We don't. We don't do that with people like George W. Bush, or. This is why the whole Dick Cheney thing bothered me. I'm like, they're like, oh, he died a hero. I'm like, oh, because he stood up to Trump, I'm like, oh, he died a hero. Really? I guess it's been long enough. I could speak ill of the dead. If you remember, whenever we had to react to his death, we're like, well, you know, yeah, he's dead. Okay. But, yeah, that's how I feel about Dick Cheney. That's how I feel about Fauci. They're like, there's like a small list of people who, I'm like, no, fuck you till the day you die. Like, I literally don't care about you at all. Well, and we shouldn't be resuscitating your image or any of that.
- [39:12]
Krystal Ball
No, George W. Bush. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. And again, to, you know, George, the Bushes and the Trump, supposedly this bitter rivalry, etc. I mean, remember Bill Barr, who is Attorney General at the time that Epstein dies? He also served in the H.W. bush administration. Like, that's where he comes from. And his dad, of course, famously is the one who hires Jeffrey Epstein at, at the Dalton School, in spite of the fact that Epstein had no qualifications to be put in, you know, to that position at this very prestigious school. Donald Barr also wrote a very strange. Oh, I know, trust me, sci fi book about, you know, some like, sex slave enterprise, et cetera. So you can go look that one up too, if you really want to go super down the rabbit hole. But in any case, so much more connectivity and so much more shared interest between all of these people than the enmity that they like to portray publicly.
- [40:07]
Saagar Enjeti
Very, very true. All right, let's continue. This one is so wild. So I had known and Ryan did a story about the Rothschild relationship with Epstein. Obviously significantly important just because it's one of the most powerful banking houses in all of Europe, long of course been connected to the rise and falls of many of the power brokers on the continent. But with their relationship with Epstein was not only deeper, but directly tied to our own country and our government. Let's put this up here on the screen. I had no idea about this. It says how the house of Rothschild became entangled with Epstein. What they specifically point to is that back in 2015, in December, after months of turmoil, the Swiss private bank owned by the Rothschild dynasty was closing in on a multi million dollar settlement with the U.S. department of justice for its part in helping rich Americans hide their assets behind the scenes. The group's French chief, Ariane de Rothschild, had tasked Jeffrey Epstein and the lawyer he had introduced her to, Kathy Ruemmler, who you will all remember, former Obama White House official, deputy White House Chief Counsel. With closing the deal, here's how the exchange went. 45 Meo question mark. As we casually throw around these numbers, Rothschild asked Epstein in December 2015. He replied, counting a $10 million fee for the lawyers and 25 million for him, I think you will find all less than 80. Pretty good. She responds deep. Thanks for your help. Days later, this gets announced. The Department of Justice, literally just days later, puts out this announcement saying, Justice Department announces joint resolution with two banks under the Swiss bank program. The Department of Justice announced today that Edmond de Rothschild and Edmond de Rothschild, Sarah, they have reached a joint resolution under the Department's Swiss bank program. EDR Switzerland will pay a penalty of more than 45 million, make a complete disclosure of the cross border activities, et cetera. There is no public reporting at the time to indicate Epstein's role, but you will remember here we now have a deal brokered by a private Swiss bank, the Rothschild, I mean, literally one of the richest families in the history of Europe, who is. Is working with Jeffrey Epstein days before and pays him $25 million potentially. For what reason? Not just Kathy Rummler, but maybe for the connection finder's fee, some sort of influence where he is able to negotiate this deal on behalf of this bank and the U.S. department of justice to the point where you can all see it and go back and read. There's no mention of him. What role did he play? Who did he call? I mean, that if anything shows the extent of influence that is that. That right there is true influence. A private Swiss bank, the richest. Some of the richest people in Europe who call you and they're like, hey, man, 25 million. For what? For a $45 million settlement that's announced, but you gotta be pulling some serious strings to merit more than half of what the overall settlement is going to be. On top of the legal fees, which are already factoring in for this. What were they paying for? Nobody knows. Yeah, nobody knows. But it was announced just like they said. Cool. 45 mil. Exactly what he was saying. 45 mil. This is how it's gonna go. I can make sure that this all happened. I'm assuming you don't just get paid somebody $25 million for nothing. So that is a very, very significant one. It shows his level of influence. Seriously, who did he call and what was he able to do to secure something like this? Because they'll pay anything to make something.
- [43:28]
Krystal Ball
Like that go away. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, you look at these emails, you see elaborate communication with Ariana of Rothschild. You know, they clearly had a very friendly relationship where she's downplaying, the bank is downplaying at this point, et cetera. You can read their statements. But they were really chummy. You know, she was asking for advice on all kinds of personal, messy matters that were going on within the family. And he's there as the, like, sounding board and, you know, reliable friend for her to, you know, bounce ideas off of, et cetera, and then is involved in this very direct, extremely significant, important way. You know, I just saw this one that just Murtaza Hussein just pulled up that it looks like Epstein may have met with MBS three days before Jamal Khashoggi was murdered.
- [44:13]
Saagar Enjeti
Wow.
- [44:13]
Krystal Ball
And then we also had those other emails where he was talking about it and he was. Oh, I think those were with. Were those with Bannon, I think, where he was texting back and forth in that particular exchange where he's talking about his theories about what happened there, you know, and that's another question. Did he have inside knowledge on that one as well? But you just can see all of the, these connections with the most powerful people in the entire world. And you can also see from his communications, for example, with Peter Thiel and with others, and how they sort of view the world as just their plaything to exploit. With Libya, like, oh, I think there's all kinds of money that can be had there. And talking about how the most financially profitable thing for them is global collapse and chaos and war, and that that's what they actively hope for and wish for. I mean, you just see the way that they view things and how he ends up, somehow ends up in connection with all of these really powerful people at all these extraordinary moments in history. And with this one with the Rothschilds, why it's so significant is because he directly appears to have had a hand in exactly what this settlement looked like, down to the dollar amount. So it is, is completely wild. One more here. Let's put a 15 up on the screen. You guys will recall, because we played it for you before. Howard Lutnick. Oh, my God. I met my wife and I met Epstein, our next door neighbor in New York City one time, and we were so disgusted that we said we will never have anything to do with him whatsoever. Well, he lied. I mean, there's just blatant, blatant lie now, I guess the best. Maybe he forgot, but all of these interactions that he had with Epstein over the years. But let me go ahead and read this from the New York Times. Howard Lutnick, President Trump's billionaire Commerce Secretary, interacted with the sex offender Jeffrey Epstein regularly over at least 13 years while they live next door to one another on Manhattan's Upper east side. They invested in the same privately held company together. Okay, so they were not just casual. They happen to be in the same social circles. No, no. I mean, There was that, too, but they literally were business partners. You think that escaped his memory? He just forgot about that little detail with regards his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. Then it goes on to say they dealt with one another on neighborhood and philanthropic issues and appear to have socialized in New York and in the Caribbean. The record show Mr. Epstein at one point even sought to meet with Mr. Lutnick's nanny. The records directly contradict Mr. Lutnick's assertion on a podcast last year that he had been so disgusted by Mr. Epstein during a 2005 visit to his townhouse that Mr. Lutnick had never set foot in a room with Mr. Epstein again, quote, so I was never in the room with him socially for business or even philanthropy, Mr. Lutnick said in an interview on the podcast Pod Force One. Reached briefly by phone last week, Mr. Lutnick said, I spent zero time with him. In any functioning society, this man would be fired. He would resign in disgrace, caught brazenly in a lie around this criminal, pedophile sex trafficker, and he would never be heard from again in public life. That's what a functioning society would look like. Instead, we know he will bear no price for this. There will be no problem. If anything, his associations with Epstein helped him get the gig, if anything. Right? So the fact that we now know, dead to rights, this man was lying to our face in the most shameless way will have zero, zero consequence for him and his future trajectory.
- [47:47]
Saagar Enjeti
Yes, that is. I mean, not only do I agree, but look again at the UK government and how they're. I mean, Keir Starmer, a Labor leader, this morning, is calling for him to resign over the Epstein scandal. The Mandelson thing has blown up their government. I saw that a Norwegian senior official was removed because of her links to Epstein. I mean, these way less than what we're talking about here with, because these people are just embarrassed by what happened. They didn't come out and say, oh, I never saw him again. And then you have all of these negotiations behind the scenes. You have the fact that he is a neighbor, which it already had, raised questions. I had found an email where Epstein wanted to hire Lutnick's butler or something like that from back in the day. And I was like, oh, well, you couldn't prove whether any of that happened. We know you put it all together. You're like, of course they knew each other. They knew each other very, very well. Which just goes to the point about how it's a big club. None of us are in it. We can now just tiny glimpse into how power and all of that operates. If you have enough money, people will look the other way or they'll actively participate or they'll have knowledge and just kind of be quiet about it, as it's all an internal protection club. You can be a genius when in fact all you're really doing is insider trading. That's one thing for the Epstein defenders. Prove to me how he made his money. Prove to me how he made his money. Was he really, really good at what he did? Find me a great financial. Find me, like, who's the guy who. Wake up, Renaissance.
- [49:08]
Krystal Ball
Who.
- [49:08]
Saagar Enjeti
I'm. I can't. Jim Simon, right, A Jim Simon figure. Or Ray Dalio to sit down and be like, here's why he was a master trader. Nobody said any of that. Nothing. He was just a criminal. That's it. Period. Blackmail and then, you know, insider trading and social connections. That's it. That's all it took to make all these billions. And then, you know, the bigger question is like, where'd all the money go? Who was it wired to? And remember, there's literally over a billion dollars in suspicious activity reports sitting in the U.S. department of treasury right now, which has yet to been released. That's where the real stuff is.
- [49:39]
Krystal Ball
And it seems that insider trading nexus seems like the easiest place actually where you could get prosecutions. And I think that's playing out in the UK for sure. And the last thing I want to say is we don't talk as much about the Epstein ranch in New Mexico.
- [49:54]
Saagar Enjeti
And they never raided it.
- [49:55]
Krystal Ball
And it appears they never raided it. They never investigated there, even though we know from significant reporting and more details added through this latest release that he wanted to use that ranch as this sort of like, as his spread his seed eugenics breeding ground project. That was what he wanted to do. Now did he accomplish that? And who was involved? And was. Was it consensual or was any of this against their will, et cetera? We're never gonna probably know. And the other thing is he had connections in the same way that he paid off a bunch of Virgin island politicians to be able to do whatever he wanted on his private island. He also was deeply enmeshed with a number of New Mexico politicians, including the former governor. So I think that angle has been wildly invisibilized and unexplored as well. So. So it's just. I mean, it's sick. What else can you say? And you see the way that it operated as there was this sort of like mutually assured destruction among all these powerful people. And that's how they sort of built these. I mean, it's sick, but that's how they built these relationships of trust is like, I know you. You can't leave, you can't blow the whistle because I know you know what I did and I know what you did and you know, and Epstein seems to have been a master at manipulation. You know, in so many of these communications, whether it's with business partners or world leaders or with, you know, girls or women, that he's exploiting. The emotional blackmail and manipulation is very clear in his communication. So he seems to have been a master of manipulating this, you know, elite Power Circle that he was one one.
- [51:36]
Saagar Enjeti
Note of all right, let's get to Iran. Speaking of Elite Power Circle circles, support.
- [51:41]
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- [52:42]
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Saagar Enjeti
Visit amica.com and get a quote today. Turning now to the situation with Iran. Things fast moving here in Washington. Some potential signs of a deal, though Trump really all over the place. He was asked about it aboard Air Force One. Here's the latest about talks as Benjamin Netanyahu is heading to the White House. Let's take a listen.
- [53:58]
Thomas Massie
We likewise had very good talks on Iran. Iran looks like it wants to make a deal very badly. We have to see what that deal is. But I think Iran looks like they want to make a deal very badly, as they should. Last time they decided maybe not to do it, but I think they probably feel differently. We'll see what the deal is. It'll be different than last time. And we have a big armada. We have a big fleet heading in that direction, going to be there pretty soon. So we'll see how that works out with Iran.
- [54:30]
Krystal Ball
Is there a deal that only covers nuclear that would be acceptable to you? Because they don't, they just want to have nuclear. They don't want to have anything else.
- [54:36]
Thomas Massie
Nuclear would be acceptable. But the one thing, and right up front, no nuclear weapons. If we could have made that deal two years ago, we would have made that deal. But they weren't willing to do that. Now they are willing to do it. So they're willing to do much more than they would have a year and a half ago or even a year ago. When we don't forget, we've only been doing this for exactly one year. And we started with them a few months after the beginning of this term. This term has been amazing, but the result else it could surprise people. If they would have offered this deal originally when we first started, it would have been accepted immediately. We'll see what happens.
- [55:20]
Saagar Enjeti
So somewhat positive signs there from the president about talks with Iran. Very good talks. They want to make a deal. If they present whatever, they basically did present this. But we can move past that if it means that there is some deal that will be had. However, we will know from the Iranian side that the talks in Oman were, quote, exclusively nuclear. The Iranians are trying to make it clear we will talk nuclear all day long. The supreme leader has his fatwa. However, we're not talking ballistic missiles, period. And the reason why is cause that's our regional security deterrent against the state of Israel. Well, who happens to hear this and immediately calls the president and says, I need to come and see you immediately. Benjamin Netanyahu, let's put this up here on the screen from the Times of Israel. Netanyahu to meet Trump in Washington Wednesday says U. S. Iran talks must deal with Iran's missiles and proxy. President Benjamin Netanyahu will fly to Washington this week to meet with President Trump on Iran. The meeting will take place on Wednesday. Quote, the Prime Minister believes that any negotiations must include restrictions on ballistic missiles and an end to support for the Iranian axis, indicating concerns about the progress of the U. S. Iran talks thus far. The US And Iran talks that happened last week were immediately met with great alarm in Tel Aviv because they want. Or in Jerusalem, sorry, which what they want, of course, is for the talks not to happen at all and for us to progress to war. Now, here's what's really stunning about these. Netanyahu was originally already supposed to be here nine days from now next week for the AIPAC summit which is happening here in Washington. But the meeting was then moved a week earlier at the Premier's request specifically to try and to derail this deal and to say any meeting has got to involve these ballistic missiles. Put B3 up here on the screen confirming more of this from Barack Ravid. And what he talks about here is that the announcement of the urgent visit comes after the Trump, Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner negotiations in Oman. And specifically that they're very concerned about anything that might actually deal with a nuclear element that does not address at all any of these regional security measure. So you can see very, very clearly here, to the extent that America has any problems with Iran, it is regional in terms of its threat to our bases, which seems manageable if you don't attack them too. But okay, so there's that. And then second is a nuclear weapon which would be capable of hitting the continental United States, like something that North Korea has developed the theory the regional ballistic missile threat is a serious and existential threat only to one continent country, Israel. And so they are saying any deal you do must take our existential security threats as seriously as you take your existential security threats. And they're basically, it's the most classic tail wagging the dog situation in terms of power disparity, in terms of, I mean, in terms of everything that could possibly exist. And yet it has a very, very high chance of succeeding because he has succeeded at every term in twisting and turning Trump to whatever direction that he wants to go.
- [58:16]
Krystal Ball
Not only that, but you also have people inside of the Trump administration who are pushing in the same direction. And then you have Trump, who's kind of his ego on the line, as he did as well with Venezuela. And the problem with the deal that's only nuclear. I mean, for all of the talk about the Iranians are so hardline and they would never give up this or that. We literally had a deal under the Obama administration. They're clearly willing to negotiate a deal that they stayed in after we got out. So the problem with that for Trump is people like Netanyahu and others in the administration that want a war and want some sort of regime change or regime collapse, collapse and say, oh, well, you're going to just do the. Go back and do the Obama deal. It has to. They'll push for it to be somehow significantly different. And of course, the ballistic missiles are an absolute red line for the Iranians. I mean, which I completely understand. Like, you're going to leave yourself completely defenseless when you have these absolute psychos who are bent on your destruction in the region. Like, you would be crazy to agree to that. There's another Times of Israel peace this morning. We don't have element for this, but they say Iran again rules out giving up uranium enrichment, suggests us not taking talks seriously. This is the Iranian Foreign Minister Abbas Agarachi on Sunday ruled out Tehran ever giving up uranium enrichment in its negotiations with Washington, insisting it will not be intimidated by the threat of war. He told a forum in Tehran. Why do we insist so much on your enrichment and refuse to give it up even if war is imposed on us? Because no one has the right to dictate our behavior. He goes on, their military deployment in the region does not, not scare us. He referred to the buildup of U.S. forces. And then they go on to talk about some of the background here, and he says they fear our atomic bomb. Well, we are not looking for one. Our atomic bomb is the power to say no to the great powers. So, I mean, that's all very rational calculus on their part. For all the talk of how they're so crazy and irrational and out of control, the approach has been very rational given the landscape that we in Israel have created for them.
- [60:15]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, Exactly. Let's put B4 up there on the screen. And this is some of the danger here about reverting to diplomacy. But the road is narrow. And what Trita Parsi flagged for all of us in this article, but also, you know, more importantly, like, really, whenever you dig into a lot of this, is that there are some serious problems whenever it comes to the path that he has now had. So, like, what they say is that the, quote, there's a strong view on the Iranian side that Trump has an excessive and exaggerated view of Iranian weakness. Weakness. If diplomacy is to work, many Iranians believe a short, intense war may be necessary to correct Trump's perception and compel him to adopt more realistic demands. Even if they take large losses, so will the Americans and the Israelis. And, quote, Trump has less tolerance for losses or for a protracted war. So that's part of, I mean, vindicating for their current strategy. So, for example, per what he was telling us is that, that there was apparently a back channel from Washington after the protests. And they're like, hey, we need to do another strike. Token strike. You token strike back. And the Iranians were like, nope, if you strike, it's on. And what happened? Oh, the carrier all of a sudden has to be brought from the South China Sea, C17s all the way across the Middle east, bases on high alert. And for a second there, we're like, oh, my God. Like, this is. This could be a real problem. And what did he do? He backed off and we ended up having talks. They canceled the talks, they put him back on off. It all happened in a three day period. You can watch our show from last week if you're interested. But the point remains that we're actually kind of afraid of a full blown conflict because will we win? Yeah, obviously, but that's not. I mean, what does winning mean? Did we win the war in Vietnam? We killed more of them. Doesn't mean we won. We killed more Taliban than they ever killed of us. Doesn't mean that we won. Same in Iraq. Right. So the point remains.
- [62:02]
Krystal Ball
Did we win the war with the Houthis, even Theoretically?
- [62:05]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah.
- [62:05]
Krystal Ball
Right?
- [62:05]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, we killed a lot of them.
- [62:07]
Krystal Ball
Right.
- [62:08]
Saagar Enjeti
Does that mean that we won? No. Right. Because there's a difference between strategic and tactical victory. Well, here you go. The exact same situation playing out with the Iranians. They know, they're like, look, yes, we will lose for sure. Many of our people will die. It's a diabolical strategy. However, we can destroy the price of oil with the Straits of Hormuz, and we could probably kill a decent number of you and we could definitely kill a decent number of Israelis. So if that's what you want to do, then let's go. And both, maybe the Israelites will sign up for that bargain. Maybe as long as Big Brother America is there to support all of them. Do really any of us have a Tolerance for a single loss of American life in a theoretical problem for Israel's security. I don't. I got zero tolerance for it. And I'm thinking that there are a lot of other people out there.
- [62:50]
Krystal Ball
Absolutely. There has been very little effort to build up any sort of, or manufacture any sort of consent around this theoretical war. I mean, they just haven't really bothered. They just don't see it as, you know, necessary to get buy in, really, from the American public. We've had all sorts of shifting explanations for why we should be so concerned about Iran. Most of them built on a pack of lies. Let's go ahead and put B5 up on the screen. Trita's actual quote that was there in the New York Times article. He says, I told the New York Times there is a strong view on the Iranian side that Trump has an excessive and exaggerated view of Iranian weakness. If diplomacy is to work, these Iranians believe a short, intense war may be necessary to correct Trump's perception and compel him to adopt more realistic demands, even if Iran takes large losses in such a war. So with, so will the Americans and Israelis, and Trump has less tolerance for losses or a protracted war. I mean, that seems entirely logical to me in terms of what the Iranians are likely thinking here and the calculation that they have made. Because in the past, the calculation they've made is basically like, yeah, we'll do this choreography with you. We'll do this dance, right? Okay, you want to strike our nuclear facilities, you do that. And we're going to. We have to retaliate, but we're gonna do it in a more limited and coordinated fashion that you can manage, and that allows you to get your defenses in place. And what happened that it did not deter us at all. What Trump learned from that is, when I need a quick ego boost, I can go and mess with the Iranians, right? And get another win on the board at a time when his approval ratings here are tanking. The economy, Shit. And all kinds of everybody's revolting against the ice assaults and all of that. That. Right? So that's what he took from that. And so they realized, like, okay, well, that was apparently not the way to get them to leave us alone. So we're going to have to take a harder line. So when Trump, you know, when they threw this back channel reach out and like, hey, let's do a little bit like, of a fake pretend war here so Trump can have his ego stroking, they're like, no, we're not playing along this time. We have to take a different approach. And, you know, that's why this is, this is a very dangerous situation. And I find it hard to imagine that. And again, I have no idea what the timing will be. I find it very hard to imagine with all of the forces within the administration and with Netanyahu pushing and with Trump having backed himself once again into a bit of a corner here with regard to his own ego, that we are just going to sort of put this all aside and pretend it never happened and move forward without any more kinetic action.
- [65:20]
Saagar Enjeti
That's very, very true. All right, last thing I wanted to put B6. Let's put that up there on the screen. Trump's this was very subtle, by the way. Witkoff and Kushner visited a US Aircraft carrier immediately after the talks. Just so everybody knows in terms of what they're trying to signal to the Iranians, too, about what's coming potentially your way, which, again, I don't think that they're all that. I think they know. I think they know that they will take probably, what, tens of thousands of losses if there was going to be, be any sort of conflict. I mean, unfortunately, they just don't seem to care. Which, you know, it's diabolical and they may be right. But that's, look, it's tragic. Like, it's one of those things where let's not find out. How about we just avoid it, you know, for, for all of our sakes. But apparently that's not the way that people want to think. Okay, let's get to Trump. Foreign.
- [66:19]
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- [66:50]
Krystal Ball
Wasn't that delicious? So good.
- [66:52]
Saagar Enjeti
Your bill, ladies.
- [66:53]
Krystal Ball
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Saagar Enjeti
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- [67:50]
Krystal Ball
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