3/17/25: Trump Uses Alien Enemies Act For Deportations, Trump Bombs Yemen For Israel, Antisemitism Crackdown

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar Episode Released: March 17, 2025

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Introduction

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar delves deep into pressing political and social issues, challenging established norms and holding power to account. In the March 17, 2025 episode, hosts Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti tackle three major topics: President Trump's invocation of the Alien Enemies Act for mass deportations, the re-initiation of U.S. military actions in Yemen supporting Israel, and a crackdown on antisemitism that borders on authoritarianism.

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1. Trump Invokes the Alien Enemies Act for Mass Deportations

Timestamp: [02:11 - 27:38]

President Donald Trump has controversially invoked the Alien Enemies Act of 1798, declaring a state of war to facilitate the mass deportation of individuals he claims are part of the Venezuelan gang, Tren de Aragua. This act, historically used only three times during major conflicts (the War of 1812, World War I, and World War II—most notably for the internment of Japanese civilians), grants the executive branch broad powers to detain and deport non-citizens without due process.

Key Points:

• Historical Context: The Alien Enemies Act has rarely been used, primarily during wartime crises.
• Current Application: Trump claims a "war" on Venezuelan gangs, leading to the deportation of hundreds of migrants to El Salvador without due process.
• Legal Challenges: The ACLU swiftly filed suits to block these deportations, highlighting the lack of evidence connecting these individuals to the Tren de Aragua gang.
• Implementation Issues: Despite judicial orders to halt the deportations, high-ranking officials like Stephen Miller have defied court directives, arguing that the deported individuals are beyond U.S. jurisdiction once over international waters.

Notable Quotes:

• Saagar Enjeti: "We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see [e-mail]." (00:37)
• Unknown Commentator: "Do you think it's okay... to put them in this prison in a foreign country indefinitely at my discretion and you don't get to say anything about it." (07:35)

Discussion Highlights: Saagar defends Trump's actions by citing the executive's authority under the Alien Enemies Act, asserting that mass deportations are within legal bounds and necessary for national security. In contrast, the Unknown Commentator criticizes the lack of due process and the ethical implications of sending individuals to prisons known for human rights abuses, emphasizing the dangers of such unchecked executive power.

Insights: The debate underscores a fundamental clash over immigration policy, executive authority, and human rights. While Saagar prioritizes national security and adherence to Trump's campaign promises, the Unknown Commentator raises concerns about the erosion of civil liberties and the potential for abuse when historical laws are repurposed for contemporary political agendas.

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2. Trump Bombs Yemen in Support of Israel

Timestamp: [62:01 - 81:20]

In a move that has reignited tensions in the Middle East, President Trump ordered renewed U.S. military strikes in Yemen targeting Houthi terrorists. The rationale behind these actions is to retaliate against the Houthis for disrupting shipping lanes, thereby supporting Israeli interests amid ongoing conflicts in Gaza.

Key Points:

• Military Operations: The U.S. has conducted extensive airstrikes against Houthi positions, surpassing previous levels of military engagement in the region.
• Economic and Human Costs: The financial burden of sustained military operations is significant, with each missile strike costing upwards of a million dollars. Additionally, these strikes have resulted in civilian casualties, including women and children.
• Strategic Ineffectiveness: Despite increased military efforts, the conflict persists, suggesting that a purely military approach is ineffective in resolving deep-rooted regional issues.
• Connection to Gaza: The attacks on Yemen coincide with heightened Israeli military actions in Gaza, indicating a broader strategy to secure U.S. interests in the region.

Notable Quotes:

• Sagar Enjeti: "We have not only bombarded Yemen, just ourselves, in retaliation for these Houthi attacks... it's also ignoring that the Saudis did not bomb Yemen for, what, five straight years, as supplied by the United States, causing... untold amount of death." (63:35)
• Unknown Commentator: "The government is being accused by the Houthis of committing war crimes here as well." (64:20)

Discussion Highlights: The hosts discuss the futility and high costs of the U.S.'s military strategy in Yemen, questioning the effectiveness of missile strikes in achieving long-term peace and stability. They critique the administration's alignment with Israeli policies, suggesting that without diplomatic efforts, military actions are merely perpetuating the cycle of violence.

Insights: This segment highlights the complexities of Middle Eastern geopolitics and the limitations of military solutions. The discussion points to the need for a balanced approach that includes diplomacy alongside defense strategies to address the root causes of conflicts.

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3. Antisemitism Crackdown: Targeting Free Speech and Academic Freedom

Timestamp: [70:28 - 81:20]

The episode shifts focus to a growing authoritarian crackdown on antisemitism, which critics argue is being weaponized to suppress dissent and target specific groups unfairly. A prominent case discussed involves Mahmoud Khalil, a Syrian refugee and law-abiding resident, who has been accused of crimes without substantive evidence.

Key Points:

• Selective Targeting: Mahmoud Khalil's case exemplifies the administration's use of antisemitism as a pretext to clamp down on perceived threats, even when evidence is lacking.
• Erosion of Civil Liberties: The government's actions are seen as a violation of the First Amendment, with due process being ignored in the pursuit of political objectives.
• Institutional Failures: Universities and other institutions are pressured into compliance, undermining academic freedom and free speech.
• Public Backlash: Critics warn of a slippery slope where initial targeted actions could expand into broader authoritarian measures affecting various groups.

Notable Quotes:

• Unknown Commentator: "If you think you're safe because you trust this president... When rights are taken, they're taken from all. And the Trump administration has already moved from threatening foreign students to threatening American citizens in a single week." (76:59)
• Bill Maher: "Protecting speech you don't like is of course the whole point of the first Amendment." (75:38)

Discussion Highlights: Krystal presents a detailed account of Mahmoud Khalil's situation, highlighting contradictions between his personal character and the government's portrayal of him as a threat. The hosts debate the implications of such policies on free speech and the broader impact on American values.

Insights: This discussion raises critical questions about the balance between combating hate speech and preserving fundamental freedoms. It underscores the dangers of using noble causes as a veneer for suppressing legitimate dissent and targeting individuals based on biased or unfounded accusations.

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Conclusion

The episode of Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar offers a robust critique of current U.S. policies under President Trump, highlighting concerns over executive overreach, the misuse of historical laws, ineffective military strategies, and the erosion of civil liberties in the name of security and combating antisemitism. Through rigorous debate and the inclusion of notable quotes, the hosts provide listeners with a comprehensive analysis of the implications these actions have on democracy, human rights, and the nation's future.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Sagar Enjeti: "We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see [e-mail]." (00:37)
• Unknown Commentator: "Do you think it's okay... to put them in this prison in a foreign country indefinitely at my discretion and you don't get to say anything about it." (07:35)
• Sagar Enjeti: "We have not only bombarded Yemen, just ourselves, in retaliation for these Houthi attacks... it's also ignoring that the Saudis did not bomb Yemen for, what, five straight years..." (63:35)
• Unknown Commentator: "The government is being accused by the Houthis of committing war crimes here as well." (64:20)
• Unknown Commentator: "If you think you're safe because you trust this president... When rights are taken, they're taken from all..." (76:59)
• Bill Maher: "Protecting speech you don't like is of course the whole point of the first Amendment." (75:38)

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For more in-depth discussions and updates on these topics, subscribe to Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar at breakingpoints.com.

Transcript

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[Sagar Enjeti]

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[Krystal Ball]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

Sagar and Krystal here.

[Unknown Commentator]

Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.

[Sagar Enjeti]

This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.

[Unknown Commentator]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see [e-mail].

[Unknown Commentator]

So over the weekend, Trump announced that he is invoking the foreign the Alien enemies Act of 1798. This is claiming wartime powers. It's only been invoked three times in the past. Both all three during actual wars. 1812, World War I and World War II when it was infamously used to justify the internment of Japanese civilians, including others as well, Italians and Germans as well. We can put B1 up on the screen. So the headline here from PBS, Trump invokes 18th century law declaring invasion by gangs to speed mass deportations. So his claim is that the US has been invaded by a Venezuelan gang, putting us quote unquote, @ war because these powers can only be used at wartime. And handing himself the discretion to intern and summarily deport with zero due process anyone that he effectively wants. So right away, after he invokes this, and there was anticipation that this was coming, there were some Venezuelan migrants who were sort of moved to this Texas ICE facility. Of course this had been expected, cuz he talked about on the campaign trail that this was coming all along. So the ACLU actually got out front and filed a suit to try to block these deportations, focusing in particular on these five Venezuelan migrants. So when Trump invokes this alien enemies act immediately, a plane takes off with hundreds of Venezuelan migrants that they claim are in this trender Aragua gang, which became a big talking point on the campaign trail as well. So they take off and head to El Salvador where they are put into a notorious prison there where, you know, I mean, they're just completely disappeared, right? So there's no access for journalists, no access for lawyers, whatever. There is no proof that these people actually are in the gang that Trump says that they're in. In fact, previously they had said that some people, you know, that were held at Guantanamo were in this gang and journalists went in and turned out they weren't whatsoever. It's estimated there's only a few hundred members of this gang in the US altogether. So it's sort of.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Oh, okay, that's not. So it's, that's not like a very.

[Unknown Commentator]

Unlikely that, you know, they got all of them in this one roundup. In any case, there's no proof, they were given no due process, no ability to challenge this determination that they're part of gang and they're disappeared into this El Salvador prison that's known for cruelty, torture and slave labor. So after this plane takes off, a judge actually acts pretty quickly. We can put this next piece up on the screen. Judge actually acts pretty quickly and hastily, schedules a hearing and says, you can't do this. I don't think that you have the legal right to do this. And I am blocking all of these deportations, not just the five that the case was originally about. The ACLU immediately expanded Their case to include all migrants who were held in detention, said, you can't do this. And even if there is a plane in the air, you need to turn that plane around and bring them back. But that does not happen. Instead, there's reporting from Axios that says that Stephen Miller and Kirsten Owen, they were apparently the ones that were involved most closely in the execution of all of this. They debated with lawyers like, should we go along with this court order or not? And basically they decided not now. They claimed it was already over international waters. So it's out of our hands now. Of course. This is preposterous and nonsense.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Wait, why?

[Unknown Commentator]

Well, because.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Do you think you can.

[Unknown Commentator]

Here's the thing.

[Sagar Enjeti]

First of all, read the quote in front of you. However that's accomplished, whether planning a turnaround or not, or not being the operative word.

[Unknown Commentator]

However, it's a complicated plane took off.

[Sagar Enjeti]

From Texas, which immediately put it over international waters within like 10 minutes. That was 6:35pm the flight landed at El Salvador at 8:35pm making it clear that actually it was over international territory and not over the waters of the United States. Now, do you really believe that some federal judge here in Washington D.C. has the authority to tell the executive to turn a military aircraft into around you believe? Okay, well, then we'll test that at the Supreme Court. We will test that at the United States Supreme Court.

[Unknown Commentator]

I mean, if you're right, then we.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Can import these back here.

[Unknown Commentator]

How do you know they're criminals?

[Sagar Enjeti]

First of all, I mean, this is where. Look, you said something earlier which I think is important. You think your country is being taken away from you because 300 something Venezuelan illegal immigrants were deported to El Salvador.

[Unknown Commentator]

How do you, what proof do you even have of that? I mean, because here's the thing.

[Sagar Enjeti]

They were deported to El Salvador.

[Unknown Commentator]

No, that they were immigrants. Yeah.

[Sagar Enjeti]

They all entered the country illegally.

[Unknown Commentator]

That's their according to the government. I mean, listen, I think that is probably true, but here's what you're defending. Hundreds of people who we don't know who they are disappeared into a foreign prison known for torture, where no lawyers or journalists could possibly go and find out who they are and whether the government story adds up with zero due process. That's what you're defending.

[Sagar Enjeti]

What I am defending is that Trump.

[Unknown Commentator]

Can summarily say, these people, they're gone. I'm putting them in this prison in a foreign country indefinitely at my discretion and you don't get to say anything about it. That's what happened here. So I just don't see anything.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I didn't say you can't say anything about it. I see an easier challenge to the United States Supreme Court. And I think that within the context of clearly the invocation of the Alien Enemies act, from what I've been able to review, he seems well within his rights to be able to do this from a State Department or a terrorist organization. That's not. Listen, you're arguing semantics. I'm talking.

[Unknown Commentator]

No, I'm arguing the law. Are we at war right now? I mean, he's been invoked three times.

[Sagar Enjeti]

As in, you look in the past.

[Unknown Commentator]

War of 1812, World War I, World War II. Those are the three times it's been invoked. All three times, especially during World War II, quite shamefully, in the internment of Japanese citizens. You think it's okay for our government to round up whoever claim they're criminals and imprison them indefinitely in a foreign prison to be tortured? Well, I'll surround.

[Sagar Enjeti]

See, you seem much more concerned about that than the importation of 8 to 10 million illegal immigrants under Joe Biden. That seems to me something. My country's been taken away. So this is what I'm saying. Like, we can play this game all day long. Do you think that's an invasion? I think that's an invasion. Eight to ten million illegal immigrants.

[Unknown Commentator]

But that's not what he's talking about.

[Sagar Enjeti]

He's talking specifically about Venezuelan migrants.

[Unknown Commentator]

Yes. No, no, he's talking specifically about the trend. How many people are here from trend?

[Sagar Enjeti]

I have no idea. All right. That's.

[Unknown Commentator]

My estimates say roughly several hundred.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Who are we getting that from, the ACLU or from the lawyer?

[Unknown Commentator]

No, from agencies from international agencies that track law and order across Latin America. These are not, like, liberal do Gooder. These are people who are looking at the spread of gangs around the world. Okay. Many actually of these people likely were fleeing violence from the very gang that you're talking about.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's probably a convenient narrative.

[Unknown Commentator]

Hold on, hold on.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I think that's a very convenient narrative.

[Unknown Commentator]

In terms of who was brought to Guantanamo Bay. Okay. Imprisoned in Gitmo. The Trump administration made the same. Oh, these are gang members. These are the worst of the worst. Some of them didn't even have criminal records at all. Some of them who they claimed were in trend. Aragua. It was because of either they were from that state of Aragua in Venezuela and actually, like I said, had been fleeing the violence from this gang, or they happened to have a tattoo that made them think like, oh, they're just in the gang. One of the people who was part of this group is LGBT Venezuelan who was imprisoned, according to his lawyer, because of his tattoo, was assumed to be in a gang. That's what we're talking about here. So there is no reason why.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Is he being gay or whatever? How is that relevant? Like what?

[Unknown Commentator]

Because how do you think it's gonna go for him, Sagar?

[Sagar Enjeti]

What?

[Unknown Commentator]

He's an artist? How do you think? This is my whole.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Oh, so he's magically allowed presence of the United States.

[Unknown Commentator]

Okay, then don't care that he's gay. Do you care that he was wrongfully imprisoned and disappeared into a foreign jail cell and there's nothing that anyone can do about it? Does that bother you?

[Sagar Enjeti]

According to his ACLU lawyer, he's not a part of the trend diagnosis. Do you truly believe I'm supposed to trust some open borders lawyer?

[Unknown Commentator]

Do you trul that they rounded up in this. They successfully rounded up every trender Aragua gang member in the country? That's it?

[Sagar Enjeti]

No, I don't think.

[Unknown Commentator]

Mission accomplished. Okay.

[Sagar Enjeti]

If anything, there's probably a lot more than need to go now. This is actually what I'm saying is that at the end of the day, within the powers of the State Department, which has declared this in fto, the powers within the executive are quite clear. I'll also note Trump literally promised to do this on the campaign trail. So this was one of the most telegraphed actions in modern times.

[Unknown Commentator]

Are you good with it? Are you good with it? I mean, crystal random people.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Are you good with 8 to 10 million illegal immigrants coming in over 4 years?

[Unknown Commentator]

Quit changing the subject. Yes, I am. You know that I'm fine with the immigration. So then are you good? Quit changing the subject.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's not. No. Are you part of the story?

[Unknown Commentator]

Are you comfortable with random people being snatched?

[Sagar Enjeti]

I don't think that they're random. I think they're illegal immigrants.

[Unknown Commentator]

Okay, give me. Give me your proof.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Of what? That they entered the country.

[Unknown Commentator]

No, give me your proof. These are gang members.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I don't have to offer that proof. And actually, even the government doesn't necessarily have to do that either for eight.

[Unknown Commentator]

But are you good with that?

[Sagar Enjeti]

With what?

[Unknown Commentator]

With being able to snatch up random people.

[Sagar Enjeti]

But they're not random. They're here.

[Unknown Commentator]

Who are legally.

[Sagar Enjeti]

They're not citizens. They are.

[Unknown Commentator]

So you're fine with. Okay.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Have criminally entered our country.

[Unknown Commentator]

You think that the an appropriate punishment for people who are fleeing gang violence and coming here seeking a better life? According to.

[Sagar Enjeti]

According to you.

[Unknown Commentator]

Do you think that an appropriate punishment is to be disappeared into a foreign jail cell, to be tortured indefinitely and subjected to slave labor.

[Sagar Enjeti]

What I think is that their responsibility and safety is the problem of the Venezuelan government. And that can argue to the government of El Salvador and identify these individuals as.

[Unknown Commentator]

My question. Is it okay with you?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Crystal?

[Unknown Commentator]

Is it okay with you? You think it is an appropriate punishment for someone who crossed our border seeking a better life to be disappeared with zero due process into a foreign jail cell to be tortured? Are you good with that?

[Sagar Enjeti]

First of all, look, you're offering up a lot of claims which you don't even necessarily be true. In the same way you can't say for certain or whatever, they've been tortured. Oh, they had their head shaven by the El Salvadorian.

[Unknown Commentator]

This is what this prison is known for.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Okay, okay. That's again, the point of what El.

[Unknown Commentator]

Salvador is known for.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I think it's. Look, as I continue to say, when you let in 8 to 10 million people and you elect a president who says, I'm gonna use the Alien and Enemies act to mass deport people and stand in front of a sign and then you win the popular vote, then yeah, I am okay with it. And in fact, the only problem I have with the Trump administration is that they've been prioritizing the stupid shit like trying to deport someone like Mahmoud Khalil for some billionaire donors and not the people who came here illegally. Those people entered our country criminally and illegally. This whole, oh, fleeing a better life is bs.

[Unknown Commentator]

It's not bs. They're economic migrants that's fleeing for a better life. I mean, there are no problems in.

[Sagar Enjeti]

The world, so they take advantage of our laws. They illegally use their.

[Unknown Commentator]

I have a very discreet question. Yes, I understand that you think it's okay to then randomly take people. We have zero proof that these are gang members and we should very much mistrust the government because they've been proven to lie about this previously. We should trust them that they're picking up gang members when they can pick up whoever they want and imprison them in a foreign jail to be tortured. You think that is an appropriate punishment for crossing our borders, trying to achieve a better life?

[Sagar Enjeti]

No, I think that the. Look, I mean, once again, I think it is clearly within the executive purview to be able to do this.

[Unknown Commentator]

Stop dodging with the executive purview. Do you think it's nudge because do you think it's right or wrong?

[Sagar Enjeti]

The world is not so black and white. Would I have preferred.

[Unknown Commentator]

Do you think it's right or wrong.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I would have preferred that they release the list of all of the names and the dossier for each one of these people. Absolutely. It would actually make it the histrionics coming from a lot of liberals.

[Unknown Commentator]

Do you think there should be easier to do? And that's the whole point of having two processes so that they can have an opportunity to prove the things you're saying about me are not true. But instead, don't you think it's telling that they had this plane ready to go so that they could avoid any of that scrutiny and that they are now disappeared into a foreign prison where there is no ability to know who these people are. And by the way, there were children as young as 14 who were part of this because the Alien Enemies act says it's 14 or older. So you're talking about not just grown men, you're talking about teenage boys here as well. That's what we're talking about. We're talking about the government claiming an ability to in turn deport some AIR elite with no due process and hold in a foreign prison whoever they want. Because we have no way to know who these people are. We don't even know for sure that they're Venezuelan. We don't know for sure. We don't know where they were when.

[Sagar Enjeti]

They enter the country. Illegal. This is what I'm saying. The level of concern you have for a bunch of illegal immigrants is. It's honestly maddening to me that you think it's okay to let 8 to 10 million people here in the level of the country illegally, many of whom commit crimes. Okay, that's great. That's the job of the United Nations. Our job is to protect our country. The United States Constitution.

[Unknown Commentator]

Tell me how it protects our country.

[Sagar Enjeti]

As well as the Alien Enemies act which stood up to multiple constitutional.

[Unknown Commentator]

Tell me how it protects our country to hand the President the ability to randomly round up and deport whoever he wants. How do you know that? What proof have you been given?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Of what? That these are Venezuelan nationals, Of who they are. Yes, actually there is proof that they were Venezuelan nationals. But beyond that. Now again we can criticize process in here all day long but I do think that is a philosophical trap where look at the status quo that we were living in. 15 to 20 million illegal immigrants who entered this country. 8 to 10 million of them over a four year period. A resounding popular vote victory for a person who said I am going to mass deport. In fact I think this is probably one of the most popular things that Trump will do. And if liberals want to mount a great fight on this, I say be my guest. Because this is the irony of the situation.

[Unknown Commentator]

I don't know whether it would be popular or not. I actually kind of doubt that it will be. I doubt that disappearing people into a foreign prison is that popular. Maybe you're right. You know what? Slavery was popular at a time. Segregation was popular at a time. You know, hating gay people was popular at a time. Like, sometimes things that are popular can be bad, can be immoral, can be a massive authoritarian, fascist power grab. This is one of those times. And I think it's insane that you can defend taking whoever they want and with zero due process, defying a court order.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, no, that's not. No, no, no. Because, again, because it's actually very up to. It's very up to interpretation. No, it is.

[Unknown Commentator]

I would be more sympathetic to your view maybe if it wasn't for Bukele, who is the head of El Salvador coming out and saying whoopsie. And the White House amplifying that with regard to the court order being defied, like they openly and brazenly defied a court order here. That said, you have to turn the plane around. You cannot do this. So if you go to the US Supreme Court, if these are hardened gang criminals, prove it. Wouldn't you want to prove it? Wouldn't you want to show everybody, look at all of these monsters that we found that we're now getting rid of, that we're now deporting, that we're now following through on our promises. No, they want to hide it. They want to do it under the COVID of night because they want to hide who these people are and do it under the COVID of night because they know they did a pretty simple job of that.

[Unknown Host]

They broadcast video.

[Unknown Commentator]

No, I'm talking about the specifics of who these people are. Yes, these faces are literally badass. When they went, when journalists were able, and this is probably why people were pulled from Guantanamo. When journalists were able to go and check, who are these people that you say are these hardened criminal monsters that you put at Guantanamo Bay with no rights, Guess what they found? Many of them had zero criminal records. The ones who they claimed were gang, they were not gang members. Some of them were fleeing gang violence. And yet we're just going to disappear people now and defy court orders and say whoopsie and send it to, you know, this brutal human rights violation, torturing slave labor cesspool?

[Sagar Enjeti]

I think you can. You know, the funny thing is, is that you know, as much as you love Mr. Ms. Sheinbaum over in Mexico, Bukele is the actually one of the also most popular in Latin America. He dropped his crime rate from something like 6,000 murders 10 years ago to 114 just in the last year. Overwhelming amount of success. So for all of this, he's overwhelmingly popular. And it turns out that like, oh, whenever you lock a bunch of criminals up, crime drops. It's actually shocking. Beyond that, again, the histrionics and the level of concern always comes to applying the maximum force of the beauty of the United States to people who criminally entered our country. I genuinely wish there was the same level of concern for our citizens. But this is where the liberal entire concern strategy just frankly why it loses at the ballot box. It's genuinely internationalist and globalist. It is open border almost to its core. Looking at these people as if they deserve the full protections of the United States and or are equal and equivalent to. Do they have rights to US Citizens, you know, under the Alien Act?

[Unknown Commentator]

Do they have rights here or not.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Under the Alien Enemies Act? If they are trende AGUA members, then no, they don't actually have due process rights. In a similar way for some air deportation.

[Unknown Commentator]

Are we a win right now?

[Sagar Enjeti]

I mean, okay, are we being invaded right now? Yeah, exactly. So there we go. If you want to play Samantha, play it all game.

[Unknown Commentator]

Don't you imagine that 200 people from a gang is an invasion and that puts us at war. Like that is insane. And so here's the thing, okay? You hate these people. You want to go, you're fine to deport every migrant and imprison them in a foreign jail cell where that can be torture. We got it. Okay. Do you realize though that once the store is open, like it's open for everyone, not just for Trump. Like when civil rights go, that's it. They're gone.

[Sagar Enjeti]

They're gonna deport who exactly? Illegal immigrants. Okay, fine, that's fine. If Biden or Kamala Harris or whoever in the future wants to summarily deport somebody who is here illegally, fine.

[Unknown Commentator]

That's fine with be comfortable with them picking up whoever they want. That's not who and summarily deporting them.

[Sagar Enjeti]

See, this is what I'm saying. We keep putting these people on the protection of even legal or there's no.

[Unknown Commentator]

Due process where we even know who these people are. But yes, of course, if you're here, you have some rights. Otherwise it would be like crazy. You couldn't just have some foreign Tourists here and then just, like, torture them for the hell of it. That would be insane.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

This is Ashley Iconetty from the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast. If you could lose 10.4 pounds in one month, would you try? Well, with Future Health, you can find out if weight loss meds are right for you in just 3 minutes at try fh.com that is try fh.com try fh.com results may vary based on start weight and adherence to diet, exercise and program goals. Database on independent studies sponsored by Future Health. Future Health is not a healthcare services provider. Meds are prescribed at provider's discretion.

[Unknown Host]

Does this podcast make you happy? Of course it does. That's why you're here. But it only comes out once a week for happiness, every night. You need Adam and Eve.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes.

[Unknown Host]

I'm talking about sex toys. It's cool. It's cool. You have earbuds in, right? Adam and Eve, America's most trusted source for adult products, has been making people very happy for over 50 years with thousands of toys for both men and women. Just go to AdamAndEve.com now and enter code IHEART for 50% off. Almost any one item, plus free discreet shipping. That's AdamAndEve.com code IHEART for 50% OFF.

[Unknown Advertiser]

At Amica Insurance, we know it's more than a life policy. It's about the promise and the responsibility that comes with being a new parent, being there day and night and building a plan for tomorrow today for the ones you'll always look out for. Trust Amica life insurance. Amica Empathy is our best policy.

[Unknown Commentator]

If you are here, yes, you have some rights. If you're an asylum seeker, yes, you have some rights. One of those rights is due process. And this is the thing is like, you know, they pick this. They paint these people as all gang members, which they're not all gang members. There's zero chance that they're all gang members. But in any case, they paint them as that because they know that this is, like, a hated group. And then those, you know, rights get stripped away. And if you think that it just stays with the group that you happen to, like, hate or not care about or think deserve to rot and get tortured in a foreign jail cell. That's not what history shows us. And some of the most shameful moments in our history have been when a hated group is targeted, like Japanese internment during World War II, which is the last time that this law was invoked.

[Sagar Enjeti]

What's the key difference between that? Those were U.S. citizens who were having their supreme Court or their constitutional rights violated natural born US Citizens.

[Unknown Commentator]

Is there any level of cruelty to migrants that you would not justify?

[Sagar Enjeti]

This is what I'm saying. Deportation is not cruelty.

[Unknown Commentator]

That's what I don't understand. Deportation. They're imprisoned in a torture chamber.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Okay, well, it's a prison in El Salvador.

[Unknown Commentator]

Is there any level of cruelty you would not justify?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Would I justify, like chaining them up and hanging them from their hands?

[Unknown Commentator]

They were sent to be tortured.

[Sagar Enjeti]

No, they weren't. They were sent for being imprisoned.

[Unknown Commentator]

They were sent to a prison.

[Sagar Enjeti]

The government for torture. Salvador has agreed apparently, like on some fee basis to house these people while they're there. It is now the problem. The Venezuelan government. And by the way, actually, if this does go to the U.S. supreme Court and they uphold what you're saying, you know what I'll say? Okay, bring them back. Go ahead, let's do it. Strike it down. You can bring them back to the United States.

[Unknown Commentator]

So you have no moral compass outside of what the Supreme Court tells you.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Is okay, look again, this is why I think this level of like, frankly, like moral hypocrisy. Where would the line be ludicrous?

[Unknown Commentator]

What would be too far?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Ask you that. How many illegals have to murder? What's the correct number? That is justifiable in the crystal ball universe for the number of illegals to enter the United States. How many murders? Is that okay. To balance with increasing economic GDP and human rights. Is it one?

[Unknown Commentator]

Undocumented and documented immigrants have a lower crime rate than the native white.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So they should actually be here.

[Unknown Commentator]

So stop smearing them all. I'm not smearing them all like they're criminals.

[Sagar Enjeti]

If there shouldn't be here, then the number should be zero. Correct. I think the Trustful number is. 0 is the number of illegal murders.

[Unknown Commentator]

We need to actually have an immigration system where I would let more people in. Yes. Than is legally allowed now. But yes, I would have borders. I would wanna know who's coming in. I would wanna make sure that criminals weren't coming in.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, none of that applied now. And I didn't see any of this level of histrionics that was happening while 200,000 people are being sent to be.

[Unknown Commentator]

Tortured by our government.

[Sagar Enjeti]

But they're interested.

[Unknown Commentator]

That's something that doesn't upset you? Like, how does that not upset you?

[Sagar Enjeti]

I don't think that they're quote unquote being tortured. I think they're in a prison. Now, second, again, I think that there are tens of millions of people who criminally entered Our country circumvented our laws. We have no idea in the similar way that you're talking about here, who are either committing crimes, let's say it's less than the native born population. Nobody knows if that's actually true or not. But even if it is, why is that acceptable number and you think zero.

[Unknown Commentator]

Think that appropriate policy. And you think that justifies sending people to be tortured in a foreign prison cell?

[Sagar Enjeti]

You keep saying that there's no evidence in the similar way there's no evidence that's true at all.

[Unknown Commentator]

You think that that's. That justifies our government claiming. No. Our government claiming the power to disappear people into a foreign prison cell.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I will tell you this. I think that considering the circumstances of the election and the genuine insanity of the status quo that we're in that me along with many people who saw what Trump was running on, agreed with this idea put forward that every power of the United States government should be brought to bear to deport people who entered this country illegally.

[Unknown Commentator]

So you.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I think that has both been affirmed at the ballot box and is within this U.S. law.

[Unknown Commentator]

You are good with random people. We don't know who they are. They get no due process. Being smeared as gang members. We don't know. And being disappeared into a foreign prison that is known for torture and slave labor.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I mean again, I'm just going to say like so you're okay with people who are coming unironically.

[Unknown Commentator]

No answer.

[Sagar Enjeti]

No.

[Unknown Commentator]

So you're okay, hold on.

[Sagar Enjeti]

With people coming to America.

[Unknown Commentator]

This is your contention who are pedophiles, murderers. Because we had people coming and we.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Have no idea who they are because.

[Unknown Commentator]

We had people come legally. We need fascism because we also need.

[Sagar Enjeti]

We also need some dishwashers.

[Unknown Commentator]

Somebody needs to build our houses because people.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So that's why people should be deployed without authorization.

[Unknown Commentator]

We should have fascism.

[Sagar Enjeti]

This is not fascism. It's ridiculous. This is the.

[Unknown Commentator]

But where is the. What would be too cruel? What would be where you would say, you know what, this is wrong. You know what? There should be due process. You know what these are?

[Unknown Host]

Yes.

[Unknown Commentator]

I don't think they should be perfect example. I don't think they should be in this country, but I do think that they deserve to not leave Georgia.

[Sagar Enjeti]

The Mohawk is the perfect example. Somebody who is here screened by our government. Not only do we know who he was, somebody who has due process rights as a legal permanent resident who was arrested and is being deported for a BS free speech reason. Perfect. There you go. I think we're gonna talk about a case soon on some H1B thing. I think the government acted outrageously on that one. On this one. This is what people really don't seem to get, is when you sit there and you just justify again, how many people are okay to just be able to come in. We're just supposed to take their word for what it is. Oh, I'm fleeing violence. You apparently get to stay here for 25 years a citizenship and a job. It's a complete bullshit circumvention of any notion of sovereignty.

[Unknown Commentator]

The contention is that that justifies claiming wartime powers to disappear random people.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I think, I mean, I like how the phrasing is here. I will interpret yours in similarly bad faith, which is that you think it is okay for criminal illegals, pedophile rapists, murderers, all of whom have been proven to have crossed the border illegally and under the very asylum status quo that you defend, that it's okay for them.

[Unknown Commentator]

To be able to come here to.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Commit and to murder, to rape our.

[Unknown Commentator]

Citizens and our children to be deported. But no, but we don't know who these people are.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Because no, but no, we don't know.

[Unknown Commentator]

Who these people are. And this administration has already been caught lying about who these people are. They've already been caught. There is zero reason to believe them. In the entire country, There are probably 300 gang members. No, I'm telling you, there are multiple estimates from independent groups who track gang violence across Latin America. Their estimate is. Best estimate is that there are a few hundred members of this gang. So your faith that they got them all in this one roundup, I guess we can. Mission accomplished, it's all done.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, I didn't say it.

[Unknown Commentator]

And then they brazenly defy a court order and brag about it and celebrate it like, I just. I just don't. I truly don't understand how that can be justified. Like, I get you're upset about the number of people who came here. We have a difference of opinion about that. That's fine. But in response to that, we think it's okay to just send a group of people to be disappeared and tortured. How is that. How is that acceptable? In what world is that acceptable? I mean, in what world is it acceptable for anyone to be tortured whatsoever? I mean, I don't think you're okay with that in general. So why, when it's this group of migrants, is it like you could do whatever you want to and I really don't care?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, we didn't do whatever we want to and we put them in the custody of the El Salvadorian government. So in a prison, it's not the same thing?

[Unknown Commentator]

No. In a prison that is known for torture and slave labor.

[Bill Maher]

Yes.

[Sagar Enjeti]

You can say it again. Okay, again. It's not the US who's doing this.

[Unknown Commentator]

And yes, the US Is doing it.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Who facilitated their deportation?

[Unknown Commentator]

Of course. The US Contracted with Bukele to put them in this prison.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes, they're in the custody of the El Salvadorian government. They were deported. I think legally, we'll find out at the U.S. supreme Court. So what are you gonna say? If the U.S. supreme Court, which I fully expect them to uphold this.

[Unknown Commentator]

My moral compass doesn't depend on what the Supreme Court says.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Okay, then you know what? And support a candidate.

[Unknown Commentator]

The Supreme Court previously has had Dred Scott. You know, I mean, there's a record. There's a record of terrible decisions from the Supreme Court. Okay. It doesn't require a Supreme Court decision to know what's right and what's wrong. And I think to take people with zero due process where they don't get to make the case, hey, I'm actually just. I'm seeking asylum. Here's what is. Here's why I have this tattoo. Here's. You know, I'm actually from that state. I was fleeing gang violence. Like that would give the government an opportunity to prove what bad hombres these people were and why they deserve all the punishment.

[Sagar Enjeti]

The testimony of the Lord be like, oh, he's getting. Again, again, who gives a shit if.

[Unknown Commentator]

The guy is gay? What I take is the proof previously that this government lied and the proof also that the fact that they disappeared these people and clearly don't want us to know who they are and don't want us to be able to evaluate. If they were able to prove these claims in court, then they should do it. And even then, though, I mean, personally, I don't think people should be tortured. But in any case, they'd have a lot stronger justification for what they're doing here. We are not at war. This is not an invasion of 200 gang members. Like, what are we talking about here?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes, you're right.

[Unknown Commentator]

10 million if you can. If you can claim these. If this president can claim these powers. Any president can claim these powers. Zero due process rights to just disappear whoever they want into a jail cell in El Salvador where they are beyond the reach of any journalists or lawyers or anyway.

[Sagar Enjeti]

But then why did.

[Unknown Commentator]

That's what we're talking about.

[Sagar Enjeti]

And why did the United States Congress not repeal that law after it was invoked Three times if they thought it was such a horrible threat to due process.

[Unknown Commentator]

I mean, look, listen, when we were, when we were leading up to this election and I said I thought Trump was a fascist and authoritarian, you said, I think the Institute, I think he's authoritarian, but I think the institutions will constrain him.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Unknown Commentator]

Where are those institutional constraints? Because what we have right now is a court ruling that the president just decided. I'm just not going to do that. I'm just going to go ahead and do that.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I mean, it was open to interpretation. I remember you even saying previously when a judge was like, hey, you need to stop all of this, but it's not necessarily feasible because something is there. It's a lower court here at the district level. It will get challenged and it will go all the way to scotus.

[Unknown Commentator]

But these people are not coming back down.

[Sagar Enjeti]

No, I'll tell you this. Well, first of all, they might be coming back because if the Supreme Court does say that that was illegal, then yes, the United States should actually not only have to comply with that order, they should fully pay. Bring these individual and then we can go through that. Secondly, as we said, the idea that they're, quote, not complying is just not true. Put before, please up on the screen from the White House, the administration, quote, did not refuse to comply. Moreover, as the Supreme Court has made repeated clear federal or sorry, this isn't actually in the statement, but it's on the other side. This is the only current flight that's supposedly planned, considering that after the plane land was then over international waters, as they're claiming it will be adjudicated sometime soon as to whether they're gonna be held in contempt of court or not. This is not some ongoing policy there from the US Government with respect to mass deportation flights of every Venezuelan like you are claiming. So they are actually complying now that the law has been. Now that the judicial course has been. You may have the similar point for the level of histrionics. If they were doing it every single day for the next 10 years or, sorry, 10 days up until it goes to school, but it hasn't happened.

[Unknown Commentator]

But this is not even the only court order that they flouted in the past number of days. And of a B7 up on the screen, another deportation that a judge blocked. Judge demands Trump Admin. Explain why a doctor was deported despite an order. This was a doctor who was here on an H1B visa, citizen of Lebanon, who was detained at the border and deported again in spite of the fact that there was a court order. Not to mention that this comes on the heels of, I mean, usaid. There were all kinds of court orders saying, hey, you have to unfreeze this money. You gotta pay these contracts. The government wouldn't do it, wouldn't do it, wouldn't do it, wouldn't do it. And so you have. If you don't wanna say it's open defiance because they're still coming up with a cover story, that's fine. But it's pretty clear from the reporting that they knew what they were doing. They had the ability to turn the plane around and they just decided, we're not gonna listen.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, well, I don't think. I honestly think it's a crazy precedent that a lower federal court judge could be able to decide that a military aircraft can be turned around over international water. I mean, imagine like, what is somebody in the middle of a bombing operation going to go to a judge and say, hey, actually, you got to turn that around. This would circumvent the very basics of the United States government and executive authority.

[Unknown Commentator]

Government agencies were in charge of this flight. The order applied to those government agencies saying, no, you can't do this. Like, you have to turn these planes around.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It says, turn the plane around or not. And however that is, however it's accomplished.

[Unknown Commentator]

So if there's a plane in there, then you have to turn it around. Like, and they. And again, the reporting from in the room is that like, they knew that they had a choice and they thought they had a choice and they decided.

[Sagar Enjeti]

They could get away.

[Unknown Commentator]

They decided that they were just not going to listen.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

This is Ashley Akinete from the Ben and Ashley I Almost same as podcast. If you could lose 10.4 pounds in one month, would you try? Well, with Future Health Health, you can find out if weight loss meds are right for you in just 3 minutes at try fh.com that is try fh.com try f h.com results may vary based on start weight and adherence to diet, exercise and program goals. Database on independent studies sponsored by Future Health. Future Health is not a healthcare services provider. Meds are prescribed at provider's discretion.

[Unknown Host]

Does this podcast make you happy? Of course it does. That's why you're here. But it only comes out once a week. For happiness, every night. You need Adam and Eve.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes.

[Unknown Host]

I'm talking about sex toys. It's cool. It's cool. You have earbuds in, right? Adam and Eve, America's most trusted source for adult products, has been making people very happy for over 50 years with thousands of toys for both men and women. Just go to AdamAndEve.com now and enter code IHEART for 50% off. Almost any one item, plus free discreet shipping. That's AdamAndEve.com code IHEART for 50% OFF.

[Unknown Advertiser]

At Amica Insurance, we know it's more than a life policy. It's about the promise and the responsibility that comes with being a new parent, being there day and night and building a plan for tomorrow, today for the ones you'll always look out for, for trust. Amica Life Insurance. Ameca Empathy is our best policy.

[Unknown Commentator]

I think that this is a new chapter in what our country is. If you can just claim war, claim we're at war, and use it to just crush whoever's rights you want and send people to foreign prison cell with. With the expectation that they will be tortured and held indefinitely. I think that's wrong.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah. Well, I think the Rorschach test here is that I think the last four years were ten times more outrageous than any potential implications of this. You were okay with it. I was not. The people decided to vote for somebody who thought they wanted to have deportation. At the end of the day, we had a situation again, but this isn't about deportation. But it really is. And it actually is also Joe Biden.

[Unknown Commentator]

Getting rid of all the laws. And this is about saying, you know, taking people, we have no proof of who they are and sending them to the court.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Does it not make you think the fact that 99% of the border crossings have dropped now under the Trump administration, despite the fact that there were no new laws?

[Unknown Commentator]

That was before they did this. They didn't even need to do this to accomplish that.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Is that not evidence that Joe Biden was genuinely did have some executive authority to quash whatever was going on the complex. The. The story that we were told was that he was fully enforcing and complying with the law when 8 to 10 million people were allowed to enter our country illegally. The Trump administration has not even, in violation of any executive order or any judicial authority that I know of today, has been able to implement, remain in Mexico and other policy to facilitate a 99% drop. We didn't have to be doing any of the stuff we are right now. If we had a previous president who didn't allow all these people in, but we don't have many of whom, many of whom did commit crimes.

[Unknown Commentator]

We don't have to be doing this.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Now, but we didn't have to be doing this now.

[Unknown Commentator]

We don't have to be Doing this. Well, I mean, so you don't think.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It'S who is making Trump at the end of the day? You don't think it's an urgent crisis that there are 8 to 10 million people who are illegally. I do. And I think a lot of voters certainly agreed that was the number one or two reasons why a lot of people who were Donald Trump at the ballot box.

[Unknown Commentator]

Okay, and so let me just be clear. You think that that quote, unquote, crisis justifies getting rid of civil rights, claiming wartime authorities and, you know, rounding people up without us knowing who they are or what they have, quote, unquote, supposedly done, having a chance to defend themselves in court? You think it justifies a suspension of core civil rights? And again, it's at the discretion of Trump and Kristi Noem and Stephen Miller, whoever they want to round up and make a show of.

[Sagar Enjeti]

If this were applied to, let's say, 5 million people and the government was openly defying an order continually as this were happening. I may share a similar level of your concern, but we are talking here about 2 to 300 people at the very least, many of which are gang members. You don't know that illegally.

[Unknown Commentator]

You don't know a single one of them is a gang member.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, you don't know that any of them are not. All right? And so like, that's my point, is that at the end of the day, and you know what? Unfortunately, none of us know because they entered the country illegally.

[Unknown Commentator]

No, none of us know because they were denied due process, enter the country illegally, and they were disappeared so that we can't have that journalist or lawyers be able to access them again.

[Sagar Enjeti]

You seem to think that we should provide and have the same level of concern as a country for people who violated our laws, who come here.

[Unknown Commentator]

Yes, I think, yes, I believe humans deserve human rights. That's great.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I think that human rights. No, I think that the United States has a sole obligation to look out for the interests of its U.S. citizens.

[Unknown Commentator]

Okay, so that means no one else. Human rights matter.

[Sagar Enjeti]

No, that's not what I said. What I said is that at the end of the day, the government and national sovereignty demand that citizens have control over their country. We lived in a status quo where there was basically violated.

[Unknown Commentator]

And you think that this flagrantly for claims, claiming this quashing of rights is necessary to achieve that goal. And you think that that's worth it? I mean, I just think when you cash.

[Sagar Enjeti]

We do have a situation where 47,000.

[Unknown Commentator]

Heads for us, it's just 200 people. So who really cares what happens to them? Do you understand that if it is upheld at supreme, we aren't just talking about a few hundred people. It will be however many people they want it to be who are sent to this, you know, torture chamber in El Salvador.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, that's not necessarily the plan. Actually. A lot of this is also to pressure the Maduro government to accept its own citizens, which it refuses to do. This is. Look, I think that the philosophical argument in all of this really gets back to what do you think that the government's purpose is? You seem to think that America is like some transnational.

[Unknown Commentator]

No, I think the government's purpose, which.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Is supposed to just be pie in.

[Unknown Commentator]

The sky and we're supposed to go.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Out and look out for the interests of all of these criminal, illegal unions.

[Unknown Commentator]

No, no, I don't. I think that people have civil rights, including people, by the way, and this is true, who are here, who are undocumented. It certainly applies to people who are visa holders and who are legal permanent residents. And I think that our government should be in the business of following the law and also of preserving civil and human rights. Yes, I think that that is. I think when we let go of that, I think that can quickly go to a very scary place.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I just don't think that that's true.

[Unknown Commentator]

And that's why I can't just hand wave away. It's just 200 people, so who really the hell cares what happens to them?

[Sagar Enjeti]

I have had to listen to four years of leftists talking about Joe Biden and in that time period I hear, defy the Supreme Court, fire the parliamentarian, forget about norms. We need to legalize weed by executive order. We need to make it so that Harvard kids get free student loans. I mean, come on, have I not been listening to Brianna Joy Gray and all these people talking about this for years. They never cared then because that was for ends that you thought were justified. This is a similar way. It is a crisis according to the government and the United States populace. I would say, considering how the election happened, those elections have consequences. Considering they literally said he was going to do it and then invoked the same law to facilitate the. That is genuinely not only a matter of doing what you said you were going to do, but beyond that, when you think at the basic level of where the concern and all this should come from, it is just obvious and clear to me that your concern falls with protecting. I mean, actually, is this lookout for due process supposed due process rights of criminal, illegal gang aliens present in The United States, as opposed to the 8 to 10 million people who enter the country illegally. I will think that the latter is a bigger problem every single day of the week. If we lived in a perfect world, do I think that they would have published the dossier of all of the individual names, et cetera? Absolutely. You know, we can critique process here all day long.

[Unknown Commentator]

I'm not critique, no, but I am process. Do you think this is.

[Sagar Enjeti]

What would you say if they did that?

[Unknown Commentator]

Do you think this is moral and right?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Do I think it is moral and right in what sense to deport people who are here present illegally? Yes, I do think this is.

[Unknown Commentator]

No, not to deport them. Them. To send them to this prison.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I think it is.

[Unknown Commentator]

With no due process.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I think it is right to facilitate a mass deportation of the people who enter this country illegally.

[Unknown Commentator]

Something that Donald Trump.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It is moral and right and I think that. I agree with you.

[Unknown Commentator]

I think it is moral and right to send these 250 people to an El Salvador prison that is known for torture with no due process.

[Sagar Enjeti]

There is no evidence that they're, quote, being tortured.

[Unknown Commentator]

Now, I didn't say, I said very carefully. An El Salvador prison known for torture. Torture.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That they should be sent there. Yes.

[Unknown Commentator]

Do you think that is, you think it is moral and right for 250 people with no due process rights to be flown to be kept in this El Salvador prison known for torture?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes. You know why? Because I think it falls within the government purview and the promise of the government that was made by our currently democratically elected president to do everything in power to make sure that people who enter the country illegally are deported. And at the end of the day.

[Unknown Commentator]

So everything in their power. So if that meant we were going to just, you know, Venezuela won't take them back and the prison in El Salvador is full, so now we're just gonna line them up and firing squad. We're just gonna.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It's a ridiculous statement.

[Unknown Commentator]

No, it's not. Because you said it's going to be, you know, they can do whatever that's.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Actually not within their power.

[Unknown Commentator]

That's the point. But they're claiming these wartime powers, right? So, you know, if you say, okay, well, they have the right to do whatever they possibly can to facilitate this, like, where is the line of what would be too far of where you would say, you know what? That is against my moral compass. That is too cruel. That is wrong. I mean, I think even if there was some legal, legal fig leaf that they could claim that you would Say that was too far.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I think you just named it. And I'm not for mass murder. I'm not for.

[Unknown Commentator]

But you're okay with if they get tortured?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, no, I didn't say I'm if they're getting tortured. What I'm saying is that I'm okay with deportation. And at the end of the day, what happens outside the borders? Let's say we send them to Venezuela, which apparently is so horrible, as you're saying, and we deport them to Venezuela and the Venezuelan government tortures them. Are we criminally responsible for that or morally responsible for that in your eyes? That's ludicrous.

[Unknown Commentator]

You have to see the difference.

[Sagar Enjeti]

No, I actually don't.

[Unknown Commentator]

Because in this sense, they're not contracted with the El Salvador government. We made an intentional choice to send them to this facility.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Let's say we send them back to Maduro, they get off the plane and Maduro shoots him in the head. Is that supposedly different?

[Unknown Commentator]

I mean, personally I think that they should, that people who are here to be allowed to stay should be able to claim asylum and continue with the temporary protected status that they've had from Venezuela, Haiti and a lot of other places.

[Sagar Enjeti]

The absolute vast majority of these people have bullshit asylum claims of which they are suspecting.

[Unknown Commentator]

Okay, then they can be adjudicated.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes. How are we supposed to adjudicate that right now, where currently there are 47,000 beds for ice, which are already a complete capacity for, to even facilitate deportation, there are 25, almost millions of immigration judges.

[Unknown Commentator]

So that you have increased capacity to be able to adjudicate asylum claims. So.

[Sagar Enjeti]

And in the interim, what happens? They get to stay here illegally. Yes, exactly. Which at the end of the day, you think that's fine.

[Unknown Commentator]

I don't think that's fine.

[Sagar Enjeti]

And luckily the vast majority of people do not agree with you.

[Unknown Commentator]

And you think, though, in response to that, that it's okay to not just to deport them, but to send them to this prison with the expectation that they're likely to be tortured?

[Sagar Enjeti]

I mean, you can say that you're not gonna put words in my mouth. I am for deportation. But again, I do. This is why I find this incredibly tiresome with. At the end of the day, you were fine. And not just you, many liberal democrats and others facilitated the greatest social experiment in modern American history. Let's increase the foreign born population. The vast majority of the illegal immigrants of who we have no idea who these people are. They're coming over here, many are committing crimes, and then we'll just Decide that we are going to pretend none of it ever happened, that actually we're for border security or increased immigration judges. That's another question. Why do you now want orderly deportation when you're fine with disorderly deport or disorderly mass migration? If that is the case, then it's an explicit acknowledgement that the previous status quo was both outrageous and was genuinely detrimental to the interests of the United States. But since they're here now, they have to stay. It's all convoluted and it makes no sense.

[Unknown Commentator]

Okay, but the logical application of all.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Of this is deportation of people who are here illegally.

[Unknown Commentator]

But the specifics matter of how it's done, would you not say? Well, and so what I'm saying you're in.

[Sagar Enjeti]

My definition on those specifics is pretty different.

[Unknown Commentator]

We can disagree very much on what the proper levels of migration are and how that should be handled, et cetera. Now, we are where we are, and there's a question of how you respond. One way to respond is to use the actual, like normal legal tools available and avail yourself of those while maintaining civil rights in the country. The other one is the one that Trump has chosen here to claim wartime authority when we're not at war, and to summarily deport people that we don't know who they are in defiance of a court order to a foreign prison where they are likely to be tortured. There was nothing about what led up to this that necessitated that reaction.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I think that it is, again, very tiresome and hypocritical, especially coming from people who I know. I wanted Joe Biden to use extraordinary interpretations of legal authority.

[Unknown Commentator]

Did I want Joe Biden to torture people?

[Sagar Enjeti]

No, you just wanted to use executive authority.

[Unknown Commentator]

Did I want Joe Biden, like, right.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Off shift, $250 trillion.

[Unknown Commentator]

Did I want Joe Biden to randomly disappear people into a prison somewhere where no lawyer can or journalists can reach them to figure out who the hell they are? What's happened? No, of course I didn't.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes, you only wanted to do it to mass legalize marijuana, which they didn't have the power to do, or to write off student debts.

[Unknown Commentator]

Do you see the difference between, like, legalizing marijuana and torturing people? I mean, these are two, like, qualitatively very different things.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Look, I think that the central problem is that you really think that you're just morally correct in this one. And at the end of the day, it's a legal. Which is both up to the Supreme Court and a popular question in which the vast majority do not agree with the position that you hold, it can.

[Unknown Commentator]

Be both a legal question and a moral question.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Would you not say that's fine? I think that if you want to hold that opinion, I think that's perfectly fine. You made that opinion clear. Many people who hold your opinion have held that clear. Luckily, I think it's been destroyed at the ballot box correctly, because it is one that is both detrimental to our country and genuinely just ridiculous and falls apart part on its own logical level.

[Unknown Commentator]

You don't remember Trump saying that he was going to send.

[Sagar Enjeti]

He literally said he was going to declare the alien.

[Unknown Commentator]

I don't remember Trump running on shipping random people to a foreign prison to be tortured. Somehow I don't remember that being a core part of his pitch. But you know what? Even if it was and even if people voted for that, again, there are certain things that have been popular throughout our history that were wrong. And, and I think that it's important to say that at the time when it's unpopular, I think it's important to be able to see those things and to call them out in real time. Japanese internment being one of them, being the last time that the law was ultimately used.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's a huge difference. Korematsu, that Supreme Court decision and Japanese internment was used against citizens of the United States.

[Unknown Commentator]

Oh, but the Supreme Court said it was fine. So wasn't it fine? People voted for it. The Supreme Court said it was fine.

[Sagar Enjeti]

People also write it about it. And the Supreme Court also has apologized or reversed its own decision on that. I'm not saying that it's a perfect institution or that any of these things are good and bad, however.

[Unknown Commentator]

But isn't it possible to have a separate moral judgment outside of what the electoral results said and the Supreme Court then upholding them?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes, of course there is. I just don't think that this is the similar situation in any way. And I think that you're ignoring the broader context which led to this entire thing, of which frankly, in my opinion is far more morally reprehensible, is to let in so many people with no idea who they are, many of whom commit crimes, and then to just sit and only get outraged whenever a popular revolt against that happens and have to know outrage there at the time, of which I know that there was none on your part and definitely on Democrats.

[Unknown Commentator]

I am outraged by the idea that the government could claim such broad powers and that all of us could be subject to their whims. And, you know, I think what we're.

[Sagar Enjeti]

United States state citizens, it's just not even remotely comparable.

[Unknown Commentator]

I think what we've seen is. I don't think that's true. And here's. Look, I think what we've already seen with the case, for example, of Mahmoud Khalil is it's like, okay, started off with they thought he was a student visa holder, turns out he's a legal permanent resident. And then it's like, but he's still not an American citizen. Well, now they're investigating all pro or the ones at Colombia as being the pro Palestine protests as being terrorist. Well, that is very much about American citizens. And so that's, you know, number one, yes, I do care about human rights, but they're not.

[Sagar Enjeti]

What do you mean? They're American citizens at Columbia. You're saying they're investigating people there for.

[Unknown Commentator]

Yes, they're investigating what? No, they're investigating whether the pro Palestine protests that happen on Colombia constitute terrorism, with the implication being that anyone who was involved with them could be charged with crimes related to terrorists. So my point is.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, and if that happens, that when.

[Unknown Commentator]

Civil rights are violated, it doesn't just stay in one corner. It doesn't just stay with this group that you happen to feel comfortable with. And yes, by the way, I do think, you know, torture is wrong, and I do think due process is the way things should be done so that the government has to prove the claims that it's making in court. And I think it's outrageous that, you know, that that didn't happen in this instance. And I don't care that it was just 200 people that were disappeared into a foreign prison without any due process whatsoever. So. And nor do I think that it stops there, like they're going to court to try to be able to pursue this path continuously. You know, and so, yeah, that's. I think that this is a. I think this is a very frightening, authoritarian, fascist power grab. And I think that our institutions have not only proven inadequate to be able to stem the tide, but also the Trump administration clearly uses whatever opportunities they can to defy court orders and pursue their own ambitions here.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I think that I understand where you're coming from, and I could see how people, liberals or whatever, could feel that way. What I would ask again is to see how did we get to this extraordinary situation? And you should make some serious political calculus, in my opinion, to look to the past and to not call out many of the outrages that have happened and the status quo change that Joe Biden and many other liberals facilitated by allowing so many people here illegally and then to Just cry tears whenever the logical consequence of that comes to bear. It just seems rewriting of history. And one where it's also. It fits very well, I think with my AOC point of the future. When she was screaming and crying in front of those deportation facilities under Donald Trump and went viral, or whenever her fist was raised and she was justifying theft and crime during blm, they thought as you did, that they were morally correct. As you feel out in this moment, that not only was a rejected at the ballot box, but it was one that both actually led to worse outcomes. Because what did Biden do? Yes. Even with all of this mass allowing of people and he continued many policies from the Trump administration of which they fell silent then at that time. So it became clear that this is not true moral standards or whatever. It's about political convenience. And throughout the through line of all of this comes back to the status quo was irrevocably changed under Biden. It became not only a popular but I think an imminent and dangerous thing to the fabric of the United States. You just allow these mass criminal illegals here, we have no idea who they are. The vast majority of them don't speak any English. The vast majority of them don't have any education. They have no able or real ability to fit into the US Economy beyond the service sector, which that seems a little bit demeaning to me and was not only affirmed, but then used to the best of their abilities, their powers, the government to facilitate deportation. And the crazy thing is you and I are arguing as if 10 million people are being deported. That's not what happened at all. All of this court order is being complied with today. They're not continuing to. It's going to go to the U.S. supreme Court. All of this will face judicial scrutiny if the Supreme Court orders them to come back. I'll sit here and I'm relatively certain the government will comply with that order. That would bring these people back and then this alien enemies thing will go through the legal process. But the point is, is that all of this I think again comes back to a dramatic change to our country, of which I think you were fine with and I think many others were and then are shocked at the genuine consequences of what that means when it interacts with the democracy.

[Unknown Commentator]

Does he not have agency? Does he not have agency in how he responds to things like you wanna say this is like somehow Biden's fault that Trump decided that Trump decided that he was going to use a wartime power grab in order to facilitate the summary deportation of migrants into a foreign torture chamber like Trump. That is on Trump. Now, you can object to how Biden handled migration and that's fine, but it still is on Trump. The way that he responds to that situation. And he responded with, with authoritarian power grab and defiance of the courts and disappearing hundreds of people that he claims are gang members with zero proof and with a lot of proof in the other direction in order to be tortured in a foreign prison cell. Okay, that's on him.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I don't think that. Well, you know what? You're right. It is on him. It will face legal scrutiny. I think it will. Also, if you totally disagree with it, people are welcome to run for office and to revert. If you wanna bring all these people back, okay, be my guest if you win the election. But I mean, at a certain point, it is one of those where I don't think it's deniable that not only was this something that was literally promised to do, that was telegraphed, that I think falls within the bounds of legal scrutiny of the way that it was carried out. And which one is genuinely addressing a real problem that is facing the U.S. i just think the biggest difference between us right now is that youth think that previous one was not actually a problem or was extremely diminishable and is not one which requires extraordinary action. And I'm somebody who does. I think that that was genuinely affirmed at the ballot box. Not only that, but falls within the bounds of where government scrutiny can. And it's just gonna have to be not even an agree or disagree situation. It is going to be one where I genuinely am curious not only to see how the Supreme Court handles this decision, and if the government does openly flout that and let's say they refuse to bring them back or they continue to do this, then I think we will be in a very similar situation to the one that you're describing as some sort of like, imminent crisis. But I just don't think that we're there yet. And I don't think that we are going to get there. I don't think so. Not the way that this is all currently being handled.

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[Unknown Commentator]

All right, so we argued about that for a really long time. So we're going to skip a couple things. The Econ and the Israel block are both going. We'll get to those tomorrow. But we wanted to update on Yemen, so let's go ahead and get to that.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So the United States has decided to start bombing Yemen again. For what purpose? Well, we'll get to that. So they released some video of the latest operation that Donald Trump ordered in retaliation against the Houthis disruption of shipping lanes. Let's go ahead and put this on the screen. You can see that this was released from CENTCOM operations firing multiple missiles and projectiles onto Yemen targeting Houthi leadership, including the use there of a US Aircraft carrier which is in the region. These were some of the videos from Yemen that actually came out showing the strikes. The retaliation was ordered by Trump for these attacks on shipping lanes. Let's go and put this up there on the screen. Released from Trump's Truth Social account today. I have ordered the United States military to launch decisive and powerful military action against the Houthi terrorists in Yemen. They have waged an unrelenting campaign of piracy, violence and terrorism against the US and other ships, aircrafts and drones. Now, the problem with this is the assumption that apparently you think you can deal with this Houthi problem with just bombs and missiles alone. In fact, Jeremy Scahill flagged something which is genuinely incredible to Me, which is that just in the last 30 years, the US has used more missiles for, quote, air defense in combat against the Houthis since October 2023 than it used in all the years from Desert storm in the 1990s.

[Unknown Commentator]

What?

[Sagar Enjeti]

So we have not only bombarded Yemen, just ourselves, in retaliation for these Houthi attacks, it's also ignoring that the Saudis did not bomb Yemen for, what, five straight years, as supplied by the United States, causing, who knows, untold amount of death. The problem that they assume is that there is a military solution to this entire problem. And instead, they refused to pursue a diplomatic solution, one which had been working whenever there was a real ceasefire in Gaza. There's no Houthi attacks now. Their argument there is, oh, we're allowing blackmail. It's like, well, absent a literal US Combat invasion of Yemen, which I don't think is worth it, this is the only option. We have diplomacy, or we could have ceasefire policy, but instead, we've decided to just basically, like, flex the muscles and all of that. And people are saying, oh, are you arguing against the legitimacy of the operation? No, that's not what we're saying. What we're saying is we tried this, we tried it a bunch of different times. All of this has been tried by Obama, tried by Biden, by Trump, Trump, last time around. We're almost eight years to the day since Trump launched a combat invasion or a combat operation in Yemen in the first term. And in that time period, the status quo has not only changed, it's actually gotten worse for our overall interests. The only time that anything is stopped has been a diplomatic solution in Gaza. And it's increasingly clear that there are huge headwinds in the diplomatic solution, in the diplomatic solution way, against both from the Israelis and sections of our own government that are going to make it less likely that we pursue that. And in that event, we're gonna have more problems in the Middle East.

[Unknown Commentator]

Yeah. So Trump's statement here is also very misleading because actually, there haven't been US Ships that have been targeted by the Houthis ever since cease fire was instituted. I mean, this is the thing they always. The media and the administration always tries to hide the bottle on both this one and the last one, by the way, which is that the Houthis have been very clear. This is in response to the Israeli assault and genocide in Gaza. So when the cease fire was on, guess what? There were no Houthi attacks. Not on US Ships, not on Israeli ships, et cetera. What has changed is not only has that ceasefire broken down. Israel is bombing in Gaza, but more specifically, they are blocking humanitarian aid. They have reinstituted, with our support, the total and complete siege of Gaza. So the Houthis. Okay, well, this is how we're gonna respond. Not even. Actually, I don't think they directly originally threatened US Ships. It was, we're gonna, you know, we're going to resume our threats versus Israeli ships. And so, you know, rather than us coming in and saying, okay, well, let's get back to the ceasefire and let's actually pursue the ceasefire that the Trump administration negotiated. And by the way, aid should be able to get into Gaza. You shouldn't be collectively punishing and starving an entire population. Instead, we decided to effectively do Israel's bidding here and bomb the Houthis now putting our own ships at risk. The Houthis have claimed retaliation, sort of unconfirmed whether they were successful in that or not. But there's no doubt that our ships in there saying both military now and commercial flagged ships are at risk in this passage. In addition, I don't want to gloss over the damage that our strikes did. You know, Yemen is the poorest country in the region. Capital city Sana'a is very, you know, this is a beleaguered area to begin with. And the strikes reportedly killed 31 people, injured over 100 more, most of them were women and children. Not a lot of indication that it was like, you know, super precise military targeting. There were certain civilian targets that were hit. There's a claim that a cancer hospital was hit as part of these strikes. So, you know, the US Is being accused by the Houthis of committing war crimes here as well, but all in the service, not even of our own interest, but to back up the Israelis in their desire to continue this siege and blockade of the Gaza Strip.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, let's put D4 up on the screen. This was from the Houthis. They said, quote, regarding the implementation, the operation was in response to the US aggression that targeted several government directorates with more than 47 airstrikes and then put D5 up there as well in terms of them vowing retaliation against the United States. I mean, look, do we think that they're going to sink an aircraft carrier? Yeah, probably not. But are they going to require more anti ship missiles or other things used on behalf of the United States? And the problem, as we again have shown, is that we have tried the full court military press solution here. That's what Biden tried to do. He tried to solve this at the time. You can't really deny that, to be honest. Considering the number of munitions and the number of bombing runs and retaliations and all of that were to restore global shipping. We simply don't have the ability unless we literally occupy Yemen. So at this point, it just comes back to me that they're basically falling into the same trap where, yeah, it's convenient to bomb them and just be like, yeah, okay, you know, we tried, or whatever. And then we just keep doing this, like, tit for tat approach. It's not getting us anywhere. We have the same economic consequences, the same military issues as well. I mean, you know, we never talk about this, but every time you fire one of these projectiles, it costs a million bucks or a million five. For what reason? You know, remember when we shot down all those missiles on Israel's behalf? I mean, it cost over a billion dollars just in that single operation. Not to mention the depletion of stocks. For what purpose? Not ours, last time I checked. So it just continues where, when you continue to fall in this direction, you're not moving forward to any solution which is in any way both acceptable to the people who are firing the missiles who get a say. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but they have a say as long as they have that ability without us being able to change that. Unless we pursue a diplomatic course in Gaza, which I don't know whether that's going to happen or not, that's a whole other can of worms here. But this would be more evidence to me that that should be pursued. And unfortunately, it will probably be taken in the opposite direction.

[Unknown Commentator]

Yeah, well, the point about cost is an important one right now, at a moment when this government, this administration, is supposedly pursuing this path of austerity. That's a good question. So it's like we don't have money to send down all the Social Security checks, but. But we do have money. We always have money for this. This money just magically falls out of the sky. It's never any problem funding these sorts of things. And by the way, if you look at the Doge, there's a chart out there of the contracts they've canceled. Next to none of them have been from the Pentagon, I believe of their claimed savings, it's like 0.05% came out of the Pentagon, which no surprise given that Elon is one of the Pentagon's larger subcontractors there. You all right?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, I'm sure you've got some looks here, more at Elon Anti Semitism. Crystal, what are you taking a look at?

[Unknown Commentator]

Well, if you had to sketch a portrait of the ideal type of person to be your neighbor, your community member, your fellow citizen, you'd be hard pressed to find a more compelling resume than that of Mahmoud Khalil. He was born into a refugee camp in Syria. He defied the odds to ascend to one of America's preeminent Ivy League universities, met the woman of his dreams while leading a group of volunteers, including some Americans, to educate displaced Syrian children who were in Lebanon. He had just completed a master's of public administration. He was all set to settle into his new life at a new job and as a new father. He and his wife, an American dentist raised in Michigan named Noor, are expecting in April. Even more telling of his character are the little anecdotes offered by friends and fellow students who submitted letters to the court, which paint an image of Khalil that is the polar opposite of what the government would want you to believe about him. So the government says he supports him on. Well, an American Jewish woman who believes in the importance of Israel as a Jewish homeland told the court, I can state with full confidence Mahmoud has never expressed support for Hamas. Now the government says his activities fuel anti Semitism. Another Jewish student told the court that on the contrary, when a protester veered into anti Semitic rhetoric, Mahmoud was the first person to object and to intervene. Now, Mahmoud himself went out of his way to tell CNN that his goal was to uplift both Jewish and Palestinian people, saying he saw the liberation of the two people as intertwined. Quote, you cannot achieve one without the other. The government, in attempting to remove Mahmoud, is saying he would be a detriment to our society at large. Now, in my personal opinion, you see a person's character in the way that they treat the people around them in day to day life. Letters to the court say that Mahmoud is the kind of guy who would bring the doorman in his building chicken, tea, fruit and cake to help him break his fast during Ramadan, that he built community with fellow Jewish students attending Shabbat at their home, that he was engaged in American political life. He was looking forward to being able to vote and to participate. Look, maybe the government uncovered some secret life that's going to turn the impression that many of his classmates and friends shared of a conscientious activist committed to tolerance and nonviolence on its head. But frankly, I'd be surprised. The worst thing the Internet has been able to unearth is a video of him flipping off a camera. A great American tradition But actually the government demonization of the clean cut Khalil is a perfect emblem of the up is down, left is right way that they have approached their authoritarian crackdown here. Because at the core of their current illiberal power grab is the weaponization of the liberal value of anti bigotry and specifically antisemitism. They are stripping the rights of all freedom loving people, citizen and non in the US in the name of targeting antisemitism. They've taken the authoritarian bent in wokeism and cancel culture at its worst and turned it up to full fascism. Now if you think you're safe because you trust this president, or maybe you hold the correct opinions on this issue, think again. When rights are taken, they're taken from all. And the Trump administration has already moved from threatening foreign students to threatening American citizens in a single week. It is truly chilling. In addition to their arrest of Khalil, consider the sweep of their power grab around antisemitism. In just the past 10 days, they stripped $400 million in funding from Colombia and placed its Middle Eastern studies department in receivership while completely ignoring laws requiring notification, investigation and those guarding academic freedom. They sent letters to 60 other universities threatening similar crackdowns if they do not comply with vague demands. To effectively combat antisemitism, they're deploying AI to crawl through social media accounts in order to find additional targets for deportation based on wrong. Think on Israel. Perhaps there was a result of this effort. Another Columbia student on a student visa was forced to flee the country. Her greatest involvement in pro Palestine protests was liking and resharing some public post and signing on to at least one open letter calling for Palestinian liberation. She described herself as, quote, just a rando, not anywhere close to a protest leader. 4 the Department of Justice announced that the government is investigating whether to charge American students who participated in pro Palestine protests as terrorists. Academic freedom destroyed, due process jettisoned, free speech crushed, power consolidated, all under the guide of fighting the alleged bigotry of people who were disgusted to see our government complicit in mass slaughter of civilians. Even many die hard Zionists are sounding the alarm. Eli Lake, who is nothing if not committed to hatred of pro Palestine protesters, tweeted this quote if Mahmoud Khalil is charged and convicted of an actual crime, he should be deported. If his crime is just the expression of support for a terrorist organization, then this pageant is grotesque, grotesque. And yes, I realize that their harassment of Jews, destruction of property, etc. Is not protected speech. But the legal argument thus far amounts to saying permanent Legal residents can't say anything that the Secretary of State believes undermines U.S. foreign policy. That is a horrendous violation of free speech. And as much as I despise campus solidarity with baby stranglers, I love American values more. Bill Maher, to my somewhat surprise, also weighed in on behalf of Columbia, viewing the assault on him as an attack on free speech.

[Bill Maher]

Then there's this issue of Mahmoud Khalil. He is one of the protesters, the Palestinian protesters. And I don't agree with his point of view. But you know what? If you're an honest person, you have to defend him if you believe in free speech, because that's what free speech means. I say it all the time when it's on the other foot. And I can't change because it's now this guy, it's defending the Democratic dirt bags you hate. So this guy, now here's what fire and I love this organization that's the foundation for individual rights and expression. And they go after the left a lot mostly, but they're honest. They said if the government has got anything other than just somebody who is saying things they don't like talking about this guy, they need to show it now because otherwise the harm to First Amendment freedoms will be serious. And I think that's true. I don't think they have anything on this guy other than he's saying things that I can't believe kids believe. Now I did not see this coming. This bizarre alliance of jihadism and wokeism. You know, infatada is the only solution, really. Info TADA is the only solution. Global, that's where this guy is. I think it's horrible. He hates this country, he hates Western civilization. And I defend to his death the right to say it.

[Unknown Commentator]

Protecting speech you don't like is of course the whole point of the first Amendment. What's more, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Jews are not safe when disfavored groups start getting singled out, criminalized, rounded up by the federal government. Neither for that matter is anyone else. Today it's them, tomorrow it could be you. Once a president claims the power to punish any speech that they don't like, there are no limits to what that can ultimately mean. Mean. Today it could be anti Semitism, tomorrow it could be anti racism. Today it could be DEI wrong think. Tomorrow it could be climate denial. Today it could be affiliating with Democrats, tomorrow it could be affiliating with Republicans. The next step in consciousness though is to realize that the mass campaign by people like Maher and Lake to demonize those with legitimate criticisms of Israel as violent, hateful and pro Hamas is exactly the ideological framework that made the current crackdown possible. And even in Eli's tweet he even says that Khalil expressed support for terrorists, which appears to not be true at all. But once the pro Palestine protests were portrayed by the liberal Biden administration as being effectively Hamas, it did not take a large leap to criminalize anyone who was affiliated with them to throw visa holders and permanent residents out of the country altogether for participating or even for liking the wrong tweet, even those like Khalil who appear to have been completely law abiding. In fairness though, I think if it wasn't the anti Semitism ruse, it would probably just be something else. After all, it's not like this is the only way Trump is consolidating power and crushing dissent. The anti Semitism ploy is one branch of Trump's broader authoritarian push. He certainly doesn't care about actual anti Semitism. He regularly himself uses anti Semitic tropes by tying all Jews to the actions of Israel. As one example, his co president Elon spent Inauguration Day giving two Nazi salutes and got in trouble before that for saying that an anti Semitic conspiracy theory was quote, the actual truth. Instead play acting concern for anti Semitism. It's just the most convenient excuse lying around to hobble his enemies, crush dissent, undercut what he sees as a rival power base in the university system to stoke fear and garner compliance. Now, Trump promised in his campaign he would pursue retribution, that he would terminate the Constitution, that he would act as a dictator. And judging from his actions, one way or another, he intends to make good on that pledge. Whether you're a media outlet that he deems illegal, a law firm with the temerity to represent one of his political opponents, or a government agency with an unacceptable number of liberal staffers. He wants you afraid, alone and cowering, crushed. He will use the power of the state and his crew of loyalist goons to achieve that intended result. If crying antisemitism helps in his campaign, he is happy to weaponize it. And it seems like he's just getting started. The move to invoke the Alien enemies Act of 1798, claiming wartime powers not used since Japanese internment, suggests that this dark turn is really just beginning. Next we're going to see whether this all fuels public backlash that could stem some of the worst abuses. Whether the courts can act to sufficiently forestall the authoritarian slide, whether the liberal institutions are remotely up to fighting an organized, lawless, illiberal power grab. So far, though, the indications are not all that promising. Looks like when ICE grabbed Mahmoud, they didn't realize he was a green card holder and likely didn't realize how unimpeachably upstanding he would turn out to actually be. Sort of living embodiment of the American cultural melting pot. Good neighbor ideal. But whether it was intentional or not, making an example out of Mahmoud ultimately does serve their interests. If they can get away with it, then really, no one else can feel safe. No matter how many Shabbats they attended, how many times they uplifted their Jewish friends, how courageously they protected them from hateful comments conduct, how academically accomplished and impressively credentialed. No matter how pregnant or how American their wife happens to be, everyone Citizen Anon will get the message that nothing can protect them if the Trump regime decides they are to be punished. And that is precisely the point. Now the only question that remains is will they get away with it? And it really is wild once you dig into who this guy actually is, how he is the and if you.

[Sagar Enjeti]

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