3/24/25: Elon Gets Billions In Gov Contracts, Trump Israel Aid Folds Amid Gaza War, Billionaire Trump Sec Laughs At Social Security Breakdown

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar: Detailed Summary of March 24, 2025 Episode

Podcast Information:

• Title: Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
• Hosts: Krystal Ball and Sagar Enjeti
• Publisher: iHeartPodcasts
• Description: Breaking Points is a fearless anti-establishment multi-week YouTube and podcast series that holds the powerful to account.
• Episode Title: 3/24/25: Elon Gets Billions In Gov Contracts, Trump Israel Aid Folds Amid Gaza War, Billionaire Trump Sec Laughs At Social Security Breakdown
• Release Date: March 24, 2025

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1. Introduction

The episode opens with brief advertisements, promoting products like Adam and Eve, a shoe collection by Paige Desorbo at DSW, and vacation deals from Cheap Caribbean Vacations. These segments run from [00:00] to [02:10], which the hosts later skip in subsequent content discussions.

2. Corruption and Elon Musk’s Government Contracts [02:10 - 09:38]

Key Discussion Points:

• Elon Musk's Companies and Government Contracts: The hosts delve into the controversial expansion of Elon Musk’s companies receiving substantial federal contracts. This raises concerns about potential conflicts of interest, as Musk not only directs these companies but also influences the allocation of government funds.

Notable Quotes:

• Sagar Enjeti [04:27]: “Starlink seems like the logical option, but it's one of those where it's like, well, should you really be the person there who's also got their hands in there?”
• Krystal Ball [05:11]: “There are criminal statutes on the books that relate directly to this. If you are a government employee and you are involved in government action that you know will increase your bottom line, that is a crime.”

Insights:

• The discussion highlights how the appearance of corruption can be as damaging as actual corruption. The Commerce Department’s decision to include Starlink in the federal rural broadband initiative is scrutinized, referencing past instances like Halliburton during the Bush administration.
• They compare the potential self-dealing issues with historical examples, emphasizing the dangers of CEOs like Musk having significant influence over governmental contracts.

3. Trump’s Trump Coin and Crypto Schemes [09:38 - 18:41]

Key Discussion Points:

• Trump Coin’s Pump-and-Dump Scheme: The hosts examine the rapid rise and fall of Trump Coin, attributing its volatility to potential pump-and-dump tactics orchestrated by influential figures, including members of the Trump family.
• Anonymity in Cryptocurrency: Concerns are raised about the lack of transparency in crypto ownership and wallet holders, making it easier for fraudulent activities to go unnoticed.

Notable Quotes:

• Sagar Enjeti [14:20]: “If you start seeing job loss month over month, unemployment going up and you get stagflation with prices still going up, then people are gonna be like, get enough of this.”
• Krystal Ball [16:04]: “If you're not doing that, you are in violation of different fiduciary duties that you have to your shareholders.”

Insights:

• The episode connects the financial manipulations in the crypto market with broader economic indicators, suggesting that political and economic instability can exacerbate fraudulent schemes.
• The potential for increased government scrutiny and legal challenges against figures like Elon Musk is discussed, particularly in light of possible shifts in political power.

4. Gaza War, Israel Aid, and Steve Witkoff’s Role [20:57 - 39:28]

Key Discussion Points:

• Gaza Conflict Escalation: The hosts analyze the breakdown of the ceasefire in Gaza, attributing renewed assaults to political maneuvers within Israeli leadership, specifically referencing Steve Witkoff’s failed peace efforts.
• Netanyahu’s Corruption Trials: Discussions highlight how ongoing corruption investigations against Israeli officials, including Netanyahu, have influenced military strategies and escalations in Gaza.
• Media and Propaganda: They critique the American media's portrayal of the Gaza conflict, suggesting that it is heavily propagandized and lacks transparency compared to Israeli media sources.

Notable Quotes:

• Steve Witkoff [25:45]: “This is on Hamas. The United States stands with the state of Israel. There's just, that's, that's a 100% commitment.”
• Sagar Enjeti [36:57]: “If you do that publicly and still berates Bibi behind the scenes, I'm fine with that.”

Insights:

• The episode underscores the complex interplay between domestic politics and foreign policy, illustrating how internal corruption and political pressures can lead to external conflicts.
• The potential for future government hearings and subpoenas against Elon Musk’s enterprises are considered, especially if there is a Democratic shift in the House of Representatives.

5. Social Security Breakdown and Howard Lutnick’s Critique [41:21 - 47:40]

Key Discussion Points:

• Howard Lutnick’s Comments on Social Security: The hosts critique Howard Lutnick, Commerce Secretary and Trump co-chair, for his dismissive remarks about Social Security, portraying beneficiaries as fraudsters.
• Impact on Dependents: They highlight the vulnerability of elderly Americans who rely heavily on Social Security, with nearly 50% of those aged 60 and older depending solely on it.

Notable Quotes:

• Howard Lutnick [43:14]: “If all the guys who did PayPal, like Elon, knows this by heart.”
• Sagar Enjeti [45:54]: “Yeah, you're not paying, you're not going to pay any income tax.”

Insights:

• The discussion emphasizes the precariousness of Social Security for many Americans and criticizes the rhetoric used by influential figures that undermines the program's importance.
• They argue that comments by high-profile individuals like Lutnick expose a lack of empathy and understanding of the financial struggles faced by millions of retirees.

6. Buy Now, Pay Later (BNPL) Trend and Klarna’s Expansion [48:05 - 56:43]

Key Discussion Points:

• Rise of BNPL Services: The hosts explore the expansion of BNPL services like Klarna into sectors such as food delivery, raising concerns about the hidden costs and increasing consumer debt.
• Financial Implications: They discuss how these services allow consumers to incur significant debt without it being tracked as traditional credit card debt, contributing to financial instability.

Notable Quotes:

• Sagar Enjeti [53:28]: “The VC's very cleverly got the whole country hooked on cheap delivery.”
• Unknown Analyst [54:18]: “Folks, how do you think Klarna makes money? You think they're just giving this away to you for free? No, it's a non-profit.”

Insights:

• The episode critiques the BNPL model for its sustainability and ethical implications, highlighting how convenience is being leveraged to trap consumers in debt cycles.
• They point out the environmental waste generated by increased delivery services and the disproportionate financial burdens placed on consumers, especially those already struggling financially.

7. Environmental and Social Concerns [56:43 - 57:36]

Key Discussion Points:

• Environmental Impact of Delivery Services: The hosts discuss the excessive use of plastic and packaging in food deliveries, contributing to environmental degradation.
• Economic Exploitation: They highlight how delivery companies and BNPL services exploit consumers and workers, leading to broader societal issues.

Notable Quotes:

• Unknown Analyst [53:48]: “The delivery order comes the foods in a plastic bowl with a plastic lid in two plastic bags. And then they put plastic utensils in there too.”
• Sagar Enjeti [54:13]: “And then Klarna, like, okay, they tell you that there's going to be no interest and. Yeah, okay, yeah.”

Insights:

• The environmental consequences of increased consumerism through delivery services are underscored, painting a picture of unsustainable practices that prioritize profit over planet.
• The discussion also touches on the broader societal implications of financial products that encourage debt without adequate consumer protection.

8. Conclusion and Final Thoughts [57:36 - End]

Key Discussion Points:

• Future Projections: The hosts speculate on the future of public policy, government oversight, and the potential for increased scrutiny on influential figures like Elon Musk.
• Consumer Awareness: Emphasis is placed on the need for greater consumer awareness and regulatory measures to protect against financial exploitation.

Notable Quotes:

• Sagar Enjeti [56:14]: “It's devastating. It's not good. It's really. It's bad.”
• Unknown Analyst [57:22]: “If you don't pay within 30 days, then they're going to. Then they start hitting with the fees and the fines.”

Insights:

• The episode concludes with a cautionary note about the direction of current economic and political trends, urging listeners to stay informed and vigilant.
• The potential for regulatory changes and increased governmental action is acknowledged, but skepticism remains about the effectiveness and sincerity of such measures.

---

Overall Summary:

In this episode, Krystal Ball and Sagar Enjeti tackle a range of interconnected issues that highlight systemic corruption, financial exploitation, and geopolitical tensions. They scrutinize Elon Musk’s integration into government contracts, exposing concerns about conflicts of interest and the erosion of governmental integrity. The discussion on Trump’s involvement in cryptocurrency schemes and the faltering Social Security system underscores the precarious state of American financial and political institutions.

Moreover, the hosts delve into the ramifications of the ongoing Gaza conflict, linking internal Israeli corruption trials to escalations in regional violence. The expansion of BNPL services like Klarna into essential sectors such as food delivery is critiqued for perpetuating consumer debt and environmental harm. Throughout the episode, Ball and Enjeti emphasize the need for accountability, transparency, and consumer protection in the face of complex and often opaque power dynamics.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Sagar Enjeti [04:27]: “Starlink seems like the logical option, but it's one of those where it's like, well, should you really be the person there who's also got their hands in there?”
• Krystal Ball [05:11]: “There are criminal statutes on the books that relate directly to this. If you are a government employee and you are involved in government action that you know will increase your bottom line, that is a crime.”
• Sagar Enjeti [14:20]: “If you start seeing job loss month over month, unemployment going up and you get stagflation with prices still going up, then people are gonna be like, get enough of this.”
• Steve Witkoff [25:45]: “This is on Hamas. The United States stands with the state of Israel. There's just, that's, that's a 100% commitment.”
• Sagar Enjeti [45:54]: “Yeah, you're not paying, you're not going to pay any income tax.”
• Sagar Enjeti [53:28]: “The VC's very cleverly got the whole country hooked on cheap delivery.”
• Unknown Analyst [54:18]: “Folks, how do you think Klarna makes money? You think they're just giving this away to you for free? No, it's a non-profit.”
• Sagar Enjeti [56:14]: “It's devastating. It's not good. It's really. It's bad.”

---

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the critical discussions and insights presented in the March 24, 2025 episode of "Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar," providing a clear and engaging overview for those who have not listened to the episode.

Transcript

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[Sagar Enjeti]

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[Krystal Ball]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

Hey guys, Sagar and Krystal here.

[Krystal Ball]

Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.

[Sagar Enjeti]

This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.

[Krystal Ball]

So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

[Sagar Enjeti]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breaking points.com.

[Unknown Analyst]

We'Re calling this block corruption. The back half of it that we'll be talking about is a much more obvious We've got The President of the United States involved in a just straight up pump and dump crypto scheme. But first, the less obvious but still kind of in your face element of Elon Musk's companies being poised to reap billions more in federal contracts than they've gotten in the past. And curious to get Stagger's take on this because I think there is a defense of it on one level, but on another level, it's just not how we do government. To have the CEO of a company that is getting money from the government be the one doling out the government contracts. We can put up this New York Times investigation by. This is Eric Lipton is one of their investigative reporters. When the Times wants to do something that leaves a mark, they will give somebody like Lipton a couple of weeks to call up his sources and do a sweeping piece that. I don't listen to the Daily anymore, but I bet you it gets pushed out on their various.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Why would anyone listen to the Daily when this show is available right here? Yeah, something about Michael Barbaro's voice. It just doesn't work for me, I gotta be honest. But, yeah, no, you're exactly right. The theory behind all this stuff is, oh, it's more efficient. And you know, the funny thing is if Elon wasn't in government, I'd be like, yeah, it's obviously more efficient. But the problem is is that the appearance of corruption is just as dangerous as corruption itself. So, like the details you're saying, the Commerce Department is now saying that Starlink will be eligible for the federal government's $42 billion rural broadband push. Now, it's pretty obvious that rural broadband by the government was an epic disaster. It literally didn't work. You had Derek on, and that's one. It was like, this is a huge failure. Starlink seems like the logical option, but it's one of those where it's like, well, should you really be the person there who's also got their hands in there? And then in terms of what portion of federal funding is it really a fair process? I mean, it reminds me of the Halliburton stuff during Bush. I would say that's probably a little bit more self dealing. But I remember people like, but Brown and Root are the best available option for this. It's like, yeah, but the Vice President's still the guy who's running the war, so it's still pretty bad.

[Unknown Analyst]

Right? And I think you and I probably both agree that starlink is a better solution.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Starlink's cool.

[Unknown Analyst]

Yeah, it works. Better than rural broadband. Just a complete mess. The government has failed to get that done. But then you're left with, all right, do we trust that Elon Musk is going to cut a fair deal with Elon Musk on behalf of the taxpayers or on behalf of starlink? I mean, he is obligated by law to maximize profits for his different corporations. That's the system that we have in place. If you're not doing that, you are in violation of different fiduciary duties that you have to your shareholders. So is he required by law to rip off the American taxpayer?

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's actually a great point, is that, yeah, if you're looking out for SpaceX's business interests, you want to secure as much money as possible. And legally you're looking for the government's interest, you want to secure as much least amount of money.

[Unknown Analyst]

And there are criminal statutes on the books that relate directly to this. If you are a government employee and you are involved in government action that you know will increase your bottom line, that is a crime. It's a straight up crime. It's not often prosecuted because it's hard to usually prove in these cases. It's like, whoa.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, this is the thing about Elon that drives me crazy. Any normal employee of the government, and I know many who have had to work in the government, you have to at some points even sell off individual stocks before you come work there. Let's say that you are working in the antitrust. You're a staffer, not even an appointee, you're just a staffer. You're making let's say $80,000 a year and you bought some Google stock, blue chip stock, Fortune 500 company. You obviously have no inside information. You still have to sell it if you want to work or you can't at least buy anymore and you have to report everything that's there. And again, the idea that some 26 year old working at the FTC is really going to have a massive implication on Google. Not the case. I mean even in the sector, as I understand it, if you work at the banks or if you work in finance at all, you're not even allowed to trade, period. Like I think you can only buy like ETFs and, or mutual funds. You're not even allowed to do that. And that's in a private sector appearance of corruption because they don't want to deal with, you know, trials, et cetera. Now here we're talking about again, elon and the SpaceX competing specifically for a government contract. And Something Eric actually pointed out. They have four current pending requests with the faa, the Pentagon to build new rocket launch pads. And so basically the military building something for them.

[Unknown Analyst]

And in federal protected land.

[Sagar Enjeti]

In federal protected land, the FAA has moved to now approve one of those deals which had been pending. Now maybe again, maybe it should always have been approved. You asked me, it probably should have been approved. I think SpaceX and all this is a really cool company. I think they do a lot of cool work. But here it's about the appearance. Second they go. The first of the awards that was approved this month is specifically after the head of the FCC was supported by Elon. Now, I know Brendan Carr. I don't think he's corrupt. I don't think that he's somebody who's been influenced by Elon. But the point is, is that it still has to raise the question. Cause this is a one about radio frequency. And again, I know this is brain dead, but billions of dollars move on this stuff. I've been in this town long enough to see Qualcomm and them spend ungodly amounts of money trying to get the right 5G frequency approved for them by the FCC. So yes, it sounds stupid and it may be one of those like, oh, maybe it's the right thing, but you really need to comprehend how much federal or how many lobbying dollars are spent trying to influence this overall process. And it's just. Look, even if it's a bad look, a bad look is enough for me at least. Especially if we're gonna criticize all these other people, Democrats like Nancy Pelosi's husband, day trading stocks. Yeah, I think it's grotesque, right? It's the same here.

[Unknown Analyst]

And Brendan Carr is a good example. He's. Yeah, like you said, he's not personally like on the take, but he's very allied with Elon Musk.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I think that's ideological. Like I said, I've known Brennan for a long time. He's genuinely an ideological like has a strong core beliefs around how the FCC should function around big tech, censorship, et cetera. This goes back probably a decade, but it's really not about him. It's more about Elon and the supporting of him and then the approval of said contracts. Again, it's probably the right decision to be able to speed things, red tape, et cetera. But it's really more about the corruption and the appearance on his side than anything else.

[Unknown Analyst]

And it's just funny to see this huge oligarchy taking shape layered over a federal government that is on A micro level. Pretty corruption free in the sense that you try to take a federal worker out to lunch.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Oh, I see what you're saying.

[Unknown Analyst]

Yes. They won't go to events where there might be free food.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes. What is it, $25?

[Unknown Analyst]

Yeah. And it's like to have all of that happening, which is you travel somewhere a lot of other places around the world, you're shelling out money to government officials and cops and everything. You want to get Even in Washington, D.C. when you get something approved, you grease this here and there. The corrosiveness of individual micro level corruption is a thing.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Are you side quest? Are you an FCPA believer? Do you think that that's a good thing?

[Unknown Analyst]

I do, because. So FCPA is the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. Yeah. So, and here is my argument for it. Like, the thing that breeds insurgency and extremism and violence in countries around the world is corruption. And people don't really understand that. That link Afghanistan, for instance, it was the Taliban's willingness to root out the corruption of those drug lords.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It was financial and it was kind of like, I'm not gonna say sexual, but like they were instilling sexual morality, I guess, in lieu of how things.

[Unknown Analyst]

Yeah, they would say, well, the Taliban, we don't really like what they stand for, but they stand for what they stand for.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah. They have order. Right, right.

[Unknown Analyst]

And that's all over the world. The thing that will feed this instability and this violence is these people are ripping me off and I hate them and I want them to die.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So I'll give the counter case.

[Unknown Analyst]

Look at the Arab Spring. No, no, no. The Arab Spring. The first guy that immolated himself did it because he was pissed off at a fruit vendor inspector who was trying to shake him down for bribes and destroy him.

[Sagar Enjeti]

This was like Tunisia, Correct?

[Unknown Analyst]

In Tunisia.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, that's right. I mean, I'll give the defense. So for people who don't know, Trump tried to suspend the fcpa, which basically prevents US businesses from dealing with in corrupt practices abroad.

[Unknown Analyst]

By the way, one thing, Rubio just sanctioned the former president of Argentina, Christian Kirchner, for corruption, corrupt practices. It's like, bro, like two weeks ago you said corruption's fine. So how are we sanctioning a former president for something that we say it's fine for our other people to participate? I agree.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I totally agree with that. I don't even know why we'd be sanctioning people for corruption.

[Unknown Analyst]

Because she was center left.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Unknown Analyst]

Social democracy.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So it just ends up. But I mean, how are you Supposed to do business. Right. Like, how are you supposed to do business in many of these foreign countries, like India, famously one of the places where you really have to grease the wheel if we want our companies to be able to do business. Like, aren't they at a strategic disadvantage? What, the Chinese people aren't paying people off? I mean, if we want to engage in, let's say, East Asia. Look, no offense, East Asia, but been around long enough to read exactly about the fusion of the Samsung and Panasonic and all this. You can call it corruption or you can call it legalized corruption, but it's something, right? So how are we supposed to do business? Let's say, in a country where you have to give gifts and that's literally part of their business culture, you send.

[Unknown Analyst]

McKinsey Consultants and you tell them how to.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So you just cut it out. Yeah, but that's what I mean, we're doing it anyway, so you might as well just make it, you know, instead of adding a bunch of legal red tape. It's like, yeah, we can't be corrupt here, but if other places are corrupt, like, what are you supposed to do?

[Unknown Analyst]

I mean, we're. It's not like they don't find we're thoroughly corrupt, too. It's just that we've legalized it and we call it lobbying and we call it, you know, campaign spending.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Right, exactly. So are we just being a little hypocritical there?

[Unknown Analyst]

Yeah, we definitely.

[Sagar Enjeti]

We're better than you.

[Unknown Analyst]

Yeah, we definitely are.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Okay, good. I'm glad you agree with me. All right, let's get to the Trump truth thing. This is also important. Let's put this up there on the screen. From Donald Trump. I love Trump. So cool. The greatest of them all. Trump being Trump. Coin. Trump Coin, of course, launched famous. Lots of questions. Coffeezilla has pointed out about pump and dump schemes and others. You can actually see at the pump and dump that happened. Let's put that on the screen. Immediately after he tweeted or truthed or whatever about it, the coin shot up to 12:25, immediately lost overall dollar value. But I mean, part of the issue here with the transparency is, you know, you don't know who owns this thing. You have no idea who are some of the people who had it, who some of the wallet holders are. There's so much anonymity behind it. And just to have, you know, the Trump. And the thing is, the Trump family has made it clear that not only they don't have no problem with this, it's part of their business strategy. Like Don Jr. And others are literally partnered with. What's that? World Liberty Financial. I think it is. It's the crypto organization behind that. Also Steve Witkoff's son, by the way, which is just hilarious. It's all a family business. So my point is, is that you can clearly see, I think that the more you see this type of stuff and especially because people are aware of it, you even have like Dave Portnoy and people like that who are calling it out, they're like, yeah, this is too much. You know, there's just something about this which rubs people the wrong way. And that's where with the Starling thing I come back to the defense will be, oh, but it's the right company. And it's like, yeah, maybe it is. But that's not the, the point is it's about the appearance itself. And I do think that's starting to become very politically potent around the country.

[Unknown Analyst]

And it becomes more potent if things are going poorly in the country.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Oh, absolutely. As you and I remember that Halliburton. Halliburton was a household name in 06. Everybody knew about Halliburton and Dick Cheney and what was the pharmaceutical company that Rumsfeld, it was like Gilead Pharmaceutical. I'm serious. Like guys, 20 years ago, people who were the breaking points viewer of 20 years ago was aware of all of this stuff and especially around Iraq war, no bid contracts and all of that in the federal government, there was a real feeling that not only that this war is killing America's troops, sons and daughters for something that we didn't necessarily want or sign up for, but it was also a pretext for bilking the American taxpayer. It was a very politically powerful message.

[Unknown Analyst]

And when the war's going okay, then.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, people were fine.

[Unknown Analyst]

People were like, oh, Albert, and they're doing a good job. The second that it turns, then you have a plausible and legitimate scapegoat. Be like, you corrupt bastards can't even wage the war. Right? So the parallel would be Trump's handling of the economy. So if he can get prices down, keep unemployment low, get mortgage interest rates down, interest rates down, and have people feeling good about the economy, they're going to be like, all right, have your fun with your Trump coins. And all of this weird thing where you've got a three time CEO as your special advisor with the kid on his shoulder, that's fine because I'm doing well. If you start seeing job loss month over month, unemployment going up and you get stagflation with prices still going up. Then people are gonna be like, get enough of this. You don't get to rip us off while we're suffering. You can rip us off if we're doing well, if we're all in this.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Together, if we're all making money, then.

[Unknown Analyst]

It'S fine, then that's fine.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It's the best deal. It's like win, win, win. In the words of Michael Scott. All right, look, it's. We're on, we gotta watch it. And I do think that this will eventually become. It's not just politics. Cause I've also been thinking about Elon. If you are. And this is gonna be. Oh my God, can you imagine if the Democrats win the House of representatives in 2026, the number of hearings for Elon and for SpaceX. It's gonna be unbelievable. The amount of subpoenas, the amount of government scrutiny. I mean, look, you know, Elon and them accused the Biden administration of lashing out at them. Good luck if a Democrat ever wins the White House again. If you're Tesla, SpaceX and all that, as we all know, it's very influenced by government contracts. You know, it's one of those where. And then, not to mention the whole brand hit that you were taking. This is like literally an existential risk. And everyone was applauding him, saying oh, he took an existential risk. It's like, yeah, it'll work out for four years. But like that's not really how the American government works. So good luck.

[Unknown Analyst]

Yes. He's acting like he feels like there will never be an opposition takeover.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I think we are one 18 months away when the Democrats, or let's say if the Democrats take, especially in the House, cuz they have subpoena power. I mean the amount of legal red tape. We're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars just in legal fees, compliance Oversight Committee, House Transportation Committee, specific riders and every bill that exempts Elon Musk's companies from participating in federal contract. I mean you could see some serious, like serious, serious ramifications for Elon himself. And remember, I mean, what is it? Bannon went to jail for contempt. Like it's not a joke. Sure, they'll refer it to the DOJ under Trump and they won't do anything. But Trump may not be around forever. Like you could easily see in two years from now or four years from now when Trump is out of the White House and whoever the Democrat is, let's say even a normie Democrat, I don't know, like Ruben Gallego. Yeah. Ruben Gallego, John Ossoff, any of these folks, of course they're gonna do it. This is gonna be a core ask of the base in the same way, like pardon J6ers and all that stuff for Trump voters. This is gonna be, I think, a core demand of a lot of the liberal base going forward. So, yeah, I don't know. And then the more self dealing you are and the more government contracts you are, the more attack vectors that the future has for you. You actually want to government proof yourself if you're gonna do something.

[Unknown Analyst]

Right. And this is before they've, you know, broken Social Security or Medicare. Like whatever calamity may befall this administration between now and then hasn't come yet. Maybe there won't be one and all the checks will go out.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes.

[Unknown Analyst]

But if they don't, look out.

[Joe Amabile]

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Bachelor happy Hour. I'm Joe.

[Krystal Ball]

And I'm Serena.

[Joe Amabile]

And we are here with the Iheart Music Awards and David's Bridal who are.

[Krystal Ball]

Sponsoring this podcast and we are so grateful to them.

[Joe Amabile]

Thank you. Thank you for finishing my sentence. And we are here with our favorites, Dot and Charity.

[Krystal Ball]

Where were you in bikinis in the snow?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Montana.

[Krystal Ball]

Okay. She flew out and joined you guys.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Isn't it cold?

[Krystal Ball]

No, it was we. Well, yeah. Bikinis in the snow. We risk getting hypothermia for those photos.

[Joe Amabile]

Wow.

[Krystal Ball]

They were sick, though.

[Joe Amabile]

I don't get bikinis in the snow.

[Krystal Ball]

Just like an aesthetic.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Joe Amabile]

If him and I did that, if we did like speedos in the snow, you guys would be like, do douchebags.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I would be like, let's see it. I would not complain. I like him to do stuff like that.

[Krystal Ball]

He's like, no. That's gonna be the name of this podcast episode. Bachelor Happy Hour Speedos in the snow, David's Bridal.

[Joe Amabile]

If you're listening to branding a little.

[Krystal Ball]

Bit, sponsored by David's Bridal Bridal Speedos in the snow.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

This is Ashley Akadeni from the Ben and Ashley I Almost famous podcast. If you could lose 10.4 pounds in one month, would you try? Well, with Future Health, you can find out if weight loss meds are right for you in just 3 minutes at try fh.com that is try fh.com try fh.com results may vary based on start weight and adherence to diet, exercise and program goals. Database on independent studies sponsored by Future Health. Future Health is not a healthcare services provider. Meds are prescribed at provider's discretion.

[Unknown Host]

Does this podcast make you happy? Of course it does. That's why you're here. But it only comes out once a week for happiness, every night. You need Adam and Eve.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes.

[Unknown Host]

I'm talking about sex toys. It's cool. It's cool. You have earbuds in right? Adam and Eve, America's most trusted source for adult products, has been making people very happy for over 50 years with thousands of toys for both men and women. Just go to AdamAndEve.com now and enter code IHEART for 50% off. Almost any one item, plus free discreet shipping. That's AdamAndEve.com code IHEART for 50% OFF.

[Sagar Enjeti]

All right, Steve Witkoff, tell us what's going on.

[Unknown Analyst]

So, Steve Witkoff, Mideast envoy who famously browbeat Netanyahu into the best. Steve, the January 20th ceasefire, which was supposed to move into phase two between February and March, instead has resulted in Israel relaunching its assault on Gaza. You had Witkoff join Tucker Carlson for a very long and interesting interview, but also do the rounds some of the rest of the media in which he kind of reverts back to the Biden administration argument that actually this is all Hamas. Let's roll a little bit of Witkoff here.

[Krystal Ball]

I know that you said Hamas has been unreasonable in trying to respond to.

[Unknown Advertiser]

Another round of the next phase of a ceasefire.

[Unknown Analyst]

Where do we go from here?

[Krystal Ball]

What are the odds you get them back to the table and get these hostages home?

[H]

Well, I certainly hope we get everybody back to the table and get the hostages home. I was, I was in Doha. I met with many of the Arab leaders at the Arab summit. I thought we had a deal, an acceptable deal. I even, I even thought we had an approval from Hamas. Maybe that's just me getting, getting, you know, duped. But, but I thought we were there and evidently we weren't. So this is on Hamas. The United States stands with the state of Israel. There's just, that's, that's a 100% commitment. And we've expressed that Hamas had every opportunity to demilitarize, to accept the bridging proposal that would have given us a 40 or 50 day cease fire where we could have discussed demilitarization and a final truce. There were all kinds of opportunities to do that and they elected not to. And this becomes the alternative. And it is unfortunate. Do I think if, would we be amenable to a reach out from Hamas? Of course we would be no different than in the Russian conflict. We want to end the killing, but we need to be clear who the aggressor is. Here, and that is Hamas.

[Unknown Analyst]

It feels almost impossible for people here in the United States to have any clear sense of what on earth is going on because we're so propagandized about this. If you want to have a better idea of what's going on, read the Israeli media.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, 100%.

[Unknown Analyst]

So here's the Times of Israel article, and this is kind of a right leaning publication. This is not the Haaretz, like, left leaning one. This is Times of Israel article. They say, quote, Hamas has insisted on sticking to the original terms of the deal, which was supposed to begin its second phase at the beginning of March. For a month, though, Israel refused to enter talks on the specific terms of phase two, as the stage's general framework requires it to fully withdraw from Gaza and agree to a permanent end of the war. In submitting his bridge proposal earlier this month, Wyckoff accepted Israel's aversion to phase two. So this is what happened. They struck a deal, the US Guaranteed it, and then Israel insisted on breaking the deal. And that is according to the Israeli press and also according to reality. Like, that's actually what happened. And Witkoff knows every, every detail of that.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I think we can only assume that this is the same movement that took out Adam Bowler. Witkoff for People. Again, I need people to understand this with Wyckoff. He has been the target of more assault on a Trump appointee than any single other individual. His temerity was what? He asked Bibi to work on Shabbat and agreed to a ceasefire. You think I'm joking? They cannot tolerate this. Like, any sense of America is the superpower here. No, that's why Bowler, he was disappeared. Right? Right. He's in El Salvador along with all those other guys. You're never even gonna see him again. The same with Wyckoff. Like, the thing that they decided on is that he's a Qatari asset number one, and then number two, which is so insane.

[Unknown Analyst]

Yeah, which is insane.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So ridiculous. Again, I tweeted that I think you saw it as well, where I was like, really? Like, the people who are in the Israel lobby are gonna accuse people of being funded by a foreign government. Like, do you have no shame? Like, have you no shame?

[Unknown Analyst]

As we speak, Netanyahu's inner circle is under investigation for taking bribes for the Qatar.

[Sagar Enjeti]

You can't make it up. You literally cannot script it. And yet here in Washington, like you said, we can't talk about any of this.

[Unknown Analyst]

Now, the other thing you will learn if you follow the Israeli press, but not the American Press. Although if you follow Breaking Points, you'll hear about it. Why did Netanyahu refused to go into phase two? Why did he choose this time? A couple different things. The head of the Shin Bet was investigating Netanyahu, so he fired him.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Fired him, fired him.

[Unknown Analyst]

First time in Israeli history that this happens. And he needs political support to do that. He has to finish a budget by the end of this month. And to do that, he needed Smocert and Benjamin back in his coalition. And so in order to do that, he had to restart the genocide on Gaza. There were protests against the firing of the Shin Bet head.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Big protests, huge protests, really real one, like James Comey level.

[Unknown Analyst]

As well as massive protests on behalf of getting the remaining captives out of Gaza. And Netanyahu's corruption trial was moving forward. Launching the bombing when he did allowed the trial to be delayed. I feel like you say this stuff out loud, you sound like a crazy person. It's like, this can't, this can't be true. This can't be why hundreds and hundreds of people are getting killed right now so that Netanyahu can get his budget passed and can avoid his corruption trial and can suppress these protests and the investigations into himself.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Right.

[Unknown Analyst]

Yet that is precisely and explicitly what is happening.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Right. But that's, you know, not enough. And Witkoff, like I said, he has just changed his tune completely on the Hamas question. Remember Bowler? He's like, yeah, they're afraid that we might find out. They're good guys, throw the horns on the head. And he's like, I understand why they're upset, but we're not a client of Israel. Oop, oops, gone. Black bag literally over his head. Here's Wyckoff basically sounding off on Tucker Carlson. Same stuff we've heard a million times. Let's take a listen.

[H]

This is Southern Command of Israel. Then showed me a film of what happened on October 7th.

[Unknown Analyst]

Yep.

[H]

And the film is horrific. Yes, it is about mass rapes.

[Unknown Analyst]

It talks about beheaded babies and stuff. It's like, I haven't seen this 47 minute video that they have shown.

[Sagar Enjeti]

You even could. They've offered it to everyone in the country.

[Unknown Analyst]

People have been very clear about what's in it, and none of that is in it. That's just a lie. Like, it's just untrue that that video includes any of that. It just doesn't. But yes, it does show how chastened he is from, you know, Boller getting knocked on his heels. And so what is the consequence for people on the ground in Gaza, we put up D3 here. So Nasser Hospital. Oh, so this, by the way, that is tent. There's a tent encampment.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Those are tents.

[Unknown Analyst]

These are like 2000 pound bombs being dropped on tents. And what Israel has been doing, that's Nasser Hospital. We'll talk about that in a second. Is they acknowledged that they were responsible for that airstrike that you saw on the tent encampment there. But they said there was a Hamas figure who was in one of the tents and that therefore that's why they believed that they had the moral and legal right to kill all of the people that were anywhere near them.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It is crazy. Just linger on that. Not that long ago, there's a whole Wolf Blitzer segment talking about the first tent bombing. Remember Blitzer asked him about. Even he criticized, he's a former APAC employee, all this other stuff even he's like, hey guys, what are we doing here nowadays? It's not even a headline anymore.

[Unknown Analyst]

Bombing ten.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It's just reality. It's just the day of the business. Like you said, if this is done for a purpose. If you think back to the Allied bombing campaigns against Germany and Japan, the purpose, at least ostensibly, we can argue about it probably forever, is what is to destroy the war machine of Germany and the will of the German public and the war machine of Germany. Here, though, they're like, oh, well, we need to kill every last terrorist. And you're like, okay, but you know, by your own admission, like, this has not worked. He's done this for two years. Rockets are launched from Gaza onto, was it Tel Aviv, some city in Israel, just like last week, which is one of the core competencies that you said that you were going to wipe out, which is actually proof that it's not working right now. You would think that you would adjust strategy here in Washington during the Second World War, whenever we see, you know, we would do bombing assessments or whatever, like, okay, this didn't work, so we gotta change to this. We're gonna try this, we're gonna try that. We're gonna do a change of tactics. We need all. It's almost like the strategy, the strategic goal is nonexistent because it's tied to their political ends at home.

[Unknown Analyst]

Exactly. And it goes back to what we were just saying. The strategy has nothing to do with a war. It's all about these domestic political interests. It would be as if FDR was bombing Berlin because FDR had a corruption trial on Tuesday and he's trying to fire the head of the OSS because The OSS is looking into FDR and he's also on the take from Qatar, which didn't exist yet. So that explains why then none of it makes sense from a strategic or even a tactical perspective because it's not actually aimed to make any sense. And so there are two. This is. And the last piece we showed you, there was Nasser Hospital. That was the second floor of Nasser Hospital directly targeted by an Israeli airstrike earlier yesterday. Firoz Sidwa and Mark Permalter were on CNN from Nasser Hospital talking about the crimes that they were seeing being committed by Israeli forces. Perlmutter, you famously may recall, was one of the authors of that New York Times article talking about how the Israeli forces were targeting children, snipers, headshots, shot in the heart. It became this thing where Israeli defenders said this is all made up. Then you started having people online parsing the different X rays. And so times looked back in, it was like, no, we ran this by dozens of other medical experts and what they are saying is true. So these are high profile critics who had been in Gaza before, left Gaza. American doctors now are back in Gaza in Nasser Hospital and are going back on CNN criticizing the Israeli war machine. And later that day a missile targets the second floor of the hospital. They claim they were targeting some Hamas guy. According to the medical staff there, There was a 17 year old who was supposed to be going in for surgery. As a result of this attack, he died. He wasn't killed directly from it, but he couldn't get the surgery that he needed and as a result died. We're still sorting through exactly what the other casualties are. You can put up D5. This is from Dropsite News. Dr. Sidwa told us that the explosion hit either the hospital building or just outside of it. This was in the fog of the early moments and the front of the hospital is on fire. He said a patient who was about to be transferred from the ICU to the operating room was now on hold and almost certainly going to die, unquote. That patient did in fact die. You put up D6 as well. This is a report from the scene. You can see that the fire and the hell. Abdel Al Sartar says this is not the first time nor the second time that hospitals have been directly targeted. Israeli occupation forces are directly targeted. The surgical department inside Nasser medical complex directly targeted with the wounded patients and medical staff all inside of the complex. And it reminds me very early in this, what turned out to be a genocide. There was this weeks long debate here in the United States about whether or not a Palestinian Islamic Jihad rocket or an IDF rocket had targeted a particular hospital.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I remember that.

[Unknown Analyst]

And since then, Israel has hit every single medical facility in Gaza and hit many of them multiple times. Earlier this week, they detonated planned demolition of the only cancer treatment facility in Gaza. And you compare that with this furious denial that they had attacked this one hospital back in like November of 2023. It shows you where the world has gone in the time since, because that was outrageous when it happened, to the point where they had to deny that they did anything. And all these OSINT people doing their forensic work on it, and now they're like, yeah, we hit that hospital with the American doctors in it. What about it? What are you gonna do? We're like, rock could do anything. Actually. No, nobody's gonna do anything.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I think what is stunning to me about Witkoff was his clear about face. And it's just clear the political forces at work that are trying to move everything. The chessboard is clear to anybody who can watch it all happen. The Pentagon is developing these war plans. So Witkoff wins in the early days, the first 50 days, I would say he's the victor. Adam Bowler is the high water mark of anybody who wanted to see a departure. But his problem is he said the quiet part out loud. We are not a client's of Israel. Boom. Lopped. What happens a week later? Yemen, Huthiban. Right, because what? Because people can finally point to the Adam Boller Wyckoff ceasefire and all and say, no, this is not working. The convinced Trump and the people around him who are neocons and others are like, see, we have to be strong, right? So we start to bomb Yemen and the Houthis and that leads to what? More of a policy on Iran, which is, oh, well, we Previously Trump said, let's have a deal, I wanna talk to you. Like, let's have diplomatic. Now they're like, oh, Iran will be held responsible for every Yemeni. And then at the same time, what else happens? Oh, the Gaza war breaks out again, which means that the increase in the attacks in Yemen andor stability all around the region is going to increase. And as all of this starts to tick up, the divergence of that time becomes more clear. This is the policy apparatus and decisions that they want. They want an environment where it's much more likely to go to war with Iran, to quote, unquote, be strong with Iran, to bring critics and all those like Wyckoff and others to heel. And they want to get away from any reality where Trump, I think Trump did want. I mean, he liked being the peacemaker. I think he also really likes the idea of talking to the Ayatollah, signing a great Iran deal. But it's still going ish, right? I mean, look, I'm gonna hold on. I hope for the sake of all of us that it does happen that way. But I'm watching the chessboard all move where, you know, one year, two years, you never know. It just takes one event and things pop off like that.

[Unknown Analyst]

The only hope remaining is also in the Tucker Carlson Witt Coffee interview, and it's Witkoff talking at length about how important a deal with Iran and a broader Mideast deal is to Trump. And as Witkoff says accurately, it all runs through Gaza. The Abraham Accord's fundamental flaw was that it pretended that the Palestine question could just be completely ignored. Now, people like Witkoff and Trump understand that's not the case. You want Saudi Arabia, the Emiratis, Iran, all to kind of come to an actual accord. You got to figure out what you're doing with Gaza and with the West Bank.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Interesting tweet, ryan, just now, 20 minutes ago, from J.D. vance. Steve Witkoff is a great guy doing an incredible job. The people sniping at him are mad that he's succeeding where they failed for 40 years. Turns out a lot of diplomacy boils down to a simple skill. Don't be an idiot. What do you make of that? That seems like a. That's a bat signal. Good.

[Unknown Analyst]

JD Vance has a powerful faction within particularly the Pentagon, but also the broader foreign policy apparatus that is America First Peace. It's much more realist, peace oriented. And that he's stepping in, I can't tell.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, so he's that bat. That's a bat signal for something. It could be on Ukraine. We'll probably cover that tomorrow. We don't have time to get into it all today because Steve also made. Made quite a few controversial comments on Ukraine. If you're a Ukraine firster here in Washington, basically saying, yeah, we're gonna have to have territorial concessions, and they're like, oh, my God, freaking out about it. But I do think that that's a subtle way of also signaling against some of these neocon attacks. But unfortunately, I'm just. I'm not sure. I think it might be too late, because at this point, you know, with Wyckoff, if you're going in public, you know, basically embracing the Israeli line of where the war is and sidelining Adam Bowler and instead letting Mike waltz and all these other guys who are just Straight up neocons back into the decision making. It doesn't seem like it's a situation that's gonna go in the direction that we would have hoped, let's say, in the first month or so of the Trump administration.

[Unknown Analyst]

Yeah. The best hope would be that he just understands, particularly after the Boller situation. These are the words you say.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Unknown Analyst]

No matter what happens, you blame Hamas.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Right.

[Unknown Analyst]

And you say Israel has a right to defend itself.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Now, if he does that publicly.

[Unknown Analyst]

These are magic words.

[Sagar Enjeti]

If he does that publicly and still berates Bibi behind the scenes, I'm fine with that. Okay.

[Unknown Analyst]

He's still an American, so he has to say the magic words.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Analyst]

Maybe Hamas's fault. That's right.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah. Do you condemn Hamas.

[Unknown Analyst]

Do you condemn Hamas for Israel striking the Nasser hospital complex? Absolutely outrageous on the part of Hamas.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's a good way. I like it.

[Joe Amabile]

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Bachelor Happy Hour. I'm Joe.

[Krystal Ball]

And I'm Serena.

[Joe Amabile]

And we are here with the Iheart Music Awards and David's Bridal who are.

[Krystal Ball]

Sponsoring this podcast and we are so grateful to them.

[Joe Amabile]

Thank you. Thank you for finishing my sentence. And we are here with our favorites, Dot and Charity.

[Krystal Ball]

Where were you in bikinis in the snow?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Montana.

[Krystal Ball]

Okay. She flew out and joined you guys.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Isn't it cold?

[Krystal Ball]

No, it was.

[Unknown Host]

We.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, yeah.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Bikinis in the snow.

[Joe Amabile]

Wow.

[Krystal Ball]

They were sick, though.

[Joe Amabile]

I don't get bikinis in the snow.

[Krystal Ball]

Just like an aesthetic.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Joe Amabile]

I don't know if him and I did that. If we did like speedos in the snow, you guys would be like, dude, douchebags.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I would be like, let's see it. I would not complain. I like him to do stuff like that.

[Krystal Ball]

He's like, no, that's gonna be the name of this podcast episode. Bachelor Happy Hour. Speedos in the snow.

[Joe Amabile]

David's bridal.

[Sagar Enjeti]

If you're listening.

[Joe Amabile]

Branding a little bit.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

This is Ashley Akinetti from the bed and Ashley I almost famous podcast. You could have lost 10 pounds already if you already started one month ago. So are you ready to start today? Find out if weight loss meds are right for you in just 3 minutes at try fh.com try fh.com try fH.com results vary based on start weight and adherence to diet, exercise and program goals. Database on independent studies sponsored by Future Health. Future Health is not a healthcare services provider. Meds are prescribed at providers discretion.

[Unknown Host]

Does this podcast make you happy? Of course it does. That's why you're here. But it only comes out once a week for happiness every night. You need Adam and Eve.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes.

[Unknown Host]

I'm talking about sex toys. It's cool. It's cool. You have earbuds in right? Adam and Eve, America's most trusted source for adult products, has been making people very happy for over 50 years with thousands of toys for both men and women. Just go to AdamAndEve.com now and enter code IHEART for 50% off. Almost any one item, plus free discreet shipping. That's AdamAndEve.com, code IHEART for 50% OFF.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Let's get over to the economy block. We had to cover this. So Secretary Lutnick over at the Commerce Department. Yeah, I do love, I like Howard Lutnick too. Just because he's just built for this moment in terms of the absolute chaos where he's got the smile on his face, believes nothing, just a pure opportunist. Jettisoned himself to the top of the United States government by being the Trump co chair of his campaign. Do you remember during the campaign when he put himself in the speaking slot before or after J.D. vance? Like he put J.D. up there and then it was Lutnick and then Elon and then Trump and everyone was like, Lutnick, like why is he getting star billing at this campaign?

[Unknown Analyst]

He's the one.

[Sagar Enjeti]

And he's still upset. Howard Lutnick is still upset that he's not the U.S. treasury Secretary. He thinks it's a downgrade, that he's the head of the Commerce Department.

[Unknown Analyst]

I mean, he's right.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, no, he is well ish. Because remember Commerce so powerful with tariffs. Anyway, Howard Ludnick sits down with the all in podcast crew, Chamath, Palihapitiya and Friedberg in this crazy set that they use sometimes over at the White House. And in the majesty of the imperium of the White House, the capital of the global empire, he starts to make some pretty unhinged comments about Social Security. Let's take a listen.

[I]

I describe it to people this way. Let's say Social Security didn't send out their checks this month. My mother in law who's 94, she wouldn't call and complain. She just wouldn't. She thinks something got messed up and she'll get it next month. A fraudster always makes the loudest noise, screaming, yelling and complaining. And if all the guys who did PayPal, like Elon, knows this by heart. Right. Anybody who's been in the payment system and the process system knows the easiest way to find the fraudster is to stop payments and listen.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[I]

Because Whoever screams is the one stealing. Yeah, because my mother in law's not calling. I mean, come on, your mother, 80 year olds, 90 year olds, they trust the government to trust. Okay, maybe got screwed up, big deal. They're not going to call and scream at someone, but someone who's stealing always does. So what happens is we need to get to. So the people who are getting that free money, stealing the money, inappropriately getting the money, have an inside person who's routing the money. They are going to yell and scream.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Right? Yeah, that totally makes sense. You know the other reason that his mother in law may not scream is that Howard's worth 1.5 billion.

[Unknown Analyst]

Yeah, I think she'd be okay.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That tends to help. You know, you don't have to worry about your $600 a month check. Yeah, you know why I scream when companies like, you know, we run a business here, sometimes vendors or whatever that people don't pay on time. It's cause, you know, I have employees to pay. Right. So you gotta make payroll or you know, whatever the. What's the alternative if you're maybe need to pay this thing called rent? Howard, I know you haven't paid that in a long time. Mortgage. You know, these are things that we mere mortals are lucky to deal with. In the case of a mortgage, rent. You know, in the case of. Let's somebody who's living on this little thing called a fixed income. Ryan, you talk. I need to find the exact stats on the number of people who rely solely on Social Security.

[Unknown Analyst]

And it's a lot, and it makes to me absolutely zero sense that the fraudster, usually the fraudster would be the one who is going to take as much money quietly as they can and then when their fraud is busted, they slink on to the next fraud. Like you don't sit there and throw yourself a parade and invite a lot of extra scrutiny. Yes, but to your point, yeah, if I were, if my son in law was worth a billion and a half dollars, then yeah, I probably would not be sweating my Social Security check either.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It's like, lady, are you really even relying on Social Security? Lady, you don't manage your own financial finances. Let's just call it for what it is.

[Unknown Analyst]

There's no way she knows when her Social Security check comes or what the value of it is, right? Why would she? That'd be weird.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, it would be weird, right? It's like if you have a, if you've got a billion and a half, you know, son in law, I would hope at least where I come from take care of your bills.

[Unknown Analyst]

If he's not helping her out, if she's relying on her Social Security, that's.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Actually a whole other meta commentary of which I hope to get to one day.

[Unknown Analyst]

He must hate his mother in law.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, clearly he hates her.

[Unknown Analyst]

But while you look at that, let's jump real quick to E4 because this is is related to it. At the same time that you've got Howard Lutnick out there acting like the Republicans are never going to see another voter again. You have the Social Security administrator, the acting one, doing a very similar thing. He threatens that he's going to shut down the entire Social Security administration and not send out checks because he's mad at a judicial ruling. He's trying to make a point. And the point was, oh, this judge thinks that he can run Social Security better than I can. Let's let him try and I'll go into the IT system. I'm just gonna shut the whole thing down and that'll show him. So he's sort of threatening like malicious compliance with this judicial order. The judge cracked down on him and as you saw now that now he's saying, he says lead, accept, I am not shutting down the agency. But think about where the Republicans are if they're at the point of their quote is I am not shutting down the agency.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Unknown Analyst]

If you're explaining that you're not actually going to shut down Social Security administration, you've somehow gotten yourself into weird political terrain. So, yeah, something like half of elderly people.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I've got it here. 47% of those aged 60 and older are, quote, very reliant on Social Security. There is at least some indication from 2020 that 40% of older Americans depend entirely on Social Security. So what's the average Social Security payment? What is it, like a couple thousand bucks a month? 36,000 a year. Yes. Okay, so 22,000 a year. That's not a lot of money, right?

[Unknown Analyst]

No, it's not.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So if we got, let's see, what is the average Social Security payment in the U.S. 1909. That's it. That's what you got?

[Unknown Analyst]

Yeah.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Okay, so $1,900 a month. And they're supposed to make, let's see, they're supposed to pay tax, at least some income tax on that. I guess if you're only making that.

[Unknown Analyst]

That'S all you're making.

[Sagar Enjeti]

You're not paying, you're not going to pay any income tax. You have to make rent, food, mortgage and, or rent, food, prescriptions at the prescriptions because Medicare is not going to cover or this or they'll hate your drug account.

[Unknown Analyst]

They do extra Medicare premiums.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, you're right. It's 19. Oh my. I can't even imagine this $1976. That is crazy. I mean, that's after the cost of living adjustment that previously went into place from January of 2024. And remember, that was a 9% increase on what there already was. So that's nothing. All right, so if you got $1,900 a month, that's effectively poverty. Which reason this exists is not to have poverty. You just have to think like, use your brain cells for having a billionaire commerce secretary going around telling people, oh, if you miss your payment, that's not a big deal. The average American is a blown tire away from complete bankruptcy. Like five to six hundred dollars emergency payment. They don't have it. I mean that. And we're not even talking about retirement. People are like, retirement, that's a dream. I don't even know what you're talking about. So if you put all this stuff together, I mean, you're looking at a situation where you're basically just taunting people to vote against you. I can't think again, even the optics there, it's like this Roman style stage. And look, no offense to you all in guys, but you know, Chamath and Friedberg are filthy rich. Chamath I know is a billionaire. I don't know if he's a billionaire. He's probably 100 million doing okay, whatever. Yeah, he's doing fine. All right, so you got three near billionaires and or billionaires on a stage talking about Social Security and about how if you complain about that you're a fraudster. Whereas any normal person who's ever been in somewhat financial distress, if you've ever even had a paycheck come a couple days late, it's a problem. It's a serious problem. Especially when, yeah, like we run a business, you know, we literally have to make payroll. You know, you or others probably at some time in your life at least had some times where somebody didn't pay you or whatever on schedule. They're like, dude, I need this money to like pay my rent. The amount of financial stress that they can cause in your life is immense. And is that really a society you want to live in with old people feeling that way? That's where the program exists in the first place. So I thought it was preposterous. I want to pair that though with one of my favorite Stories that I've seen in quite some time. Let's go and put this up there on the screen. This is the state of America right now. Doordash and Klarna have signed a deal where customers can now choose to pay for food delivery in interest free installments. So you guys remember Klarna, it's the Buy Now, Pay later app, the bnpl, where this type of debt is actually very hard to track. We don't have exact numbers. What we do know is that this amount of debt is actually not counted in overall debt figures. And it is estimated that there are tens of billions of dollars of Americans who are on these Buy Now, Pay later plans which are not registering in credit cards. Right. It doesn't actually show up as pure credit card debt, even though it is money that you do owe. Well here with respect to Klarna, you're being seeing this now applied not just to clothing and all of that, which is in my opinion bad enough, but now you've got it applied to food delivery and it's just so perfect because food delivery itself is a luxury, right? It's already one where it's not only a luxury good going back for forever, but it's also one where the doordash, Uber eats and all that model is, yeah, it's convenient, but you may not notice stuff on there is like three times more expensive, let's say, than it used to be. So between food inflation, delivery fees, process fees, et cetera, everybody's the only people winning are Doordash and Klarna here, the restaurant, they get what, 40%, 50% of whatever the actual order is. So they gotta jack their prices up just to be able to make that. The consumer is paying more for the food. The driver, let's not even get started on that in terms of how much they're getting out of this entire thing. And now we're financing the order. That is like the worst literally of all worlds. It actually also shows you how the promise of these apps was ease. It's like, yeah, ease is great if you're rich, if you can afford it. Ease also comes with a cost. There's no such thing as a free lunch. There's only trade offs. Well now we see higher food prices for everybody. We see drivers and all that who don't even work for a company getting paid like the old pizza delivery guy, now solely reliant on contracts, contract basis, getting paid middling amount or whatever per hour. And now the consumer who is ordering this has to pay or is in such financial distress. Over the increased prices of everything. They have to finance this across time. And so, as people know, I'm a fan of Dave Ramsey. This was his reaction to the story. Let's put E3, please, up on the screen. Picture of himself. There is something very horseshoe for me to see. Dave reacting to a more perfect union. 20. Sweet. So they have more in common than you might think. But there is something about this which is just so dystopian. And we can make fun of it all we want, but also, you and I know, Ryan, this is going to be a very financially successful product. And that is the true black pill of it all.

[Unknown Analyst]

And the only other thing I'd add to that is the waste. My God. The delivery order comes the foods in a plastic bowl with a plastic lid in two plastic bags. And then they put plastic utensils in there too. It's like you send it to my home. You think I don't have a fork? You think I don't have a spoon?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Some places you have to check.

[Unknown Analyst]

You check it and they still put it in there.

[Unknown Host]

Oh, okay.

[Unknown Analyst]

All right. Because the last thing they ever want is somebody complaining.

[Sagar Enjeti]

The customer's always right.

[Unknown Analyst]

Yeah, it's like we have forks at home. Come on, everybody's got a fork.

[Sagar Enjeti]

This is where your European sensibilities are starting to come in. Right?

[Unknown Analyst]

Oh, think about it. Think about the scale of it.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I don't disagree with you.

[Unknown Analyst]

Where is all this going to go?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, but then what's the cost? Right. The cost of the cost of the business is much higher if one person complains.

[Unknown Analyst]

Exactly.

[Sagar Enjeti]

As opposed to just giving it to you.

[Unknown Analyst]

And then Klarna, like, okay, they tell you that there's going to be no interest and. Yeah, okay, yeah.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Folks, how do you think Klarna makes money? You think they're just giving this away to you for free?

[Unknown Analyst]

No, it's a non profit.

[Sagar Enjeti]

They know you're not going to pay for it. Yeah. Let me look up their revenue, actually.

[Unknown Analyst]

Right. So, Right. If you don't pay within 30 days, then they're going to. Then they start hitting with the fees and the fines. And they're also, they're now introducing these different $2 service charges here and there. One of their big things has always been no service charge, no fees. And now guess what? Once they've got you hooked, they're going to find ways to add the junk fees in. And you know what, go ahead and call the CFPB and complain. You're going to get a busy signal there. Because. Because the people who are funding these types of companies, made sure that the CFPB is not going to be around to check the abuses of companies like this.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So here's what we've got. Klarna's revenue surged 24%. This is just from two days ago. They're actually filing for IPO. They're going public.

[Unknown Analyst]

Congratulations.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Congratulations. That's right. Media reports suggest they are aiming to raise more than a billion or 15 between 1. Yeah. Exceeding a valuation of some $15 billion. The BNPL market is projected to surpass 160 billion by 2032. Klarna's revenue just last year is $2.81 billion compared to a $2.2 billion a year ago. It earned some $21 million, which is actually kind of low, showing that they're investing a lot of that back into the product. Some $0.01 per share compared to losses. So it's a profitable company and they are making $2.28 billion billion dollars. Not based on you, because it's like the credit card. They know you're not gonna pay it.

[Unknown Analyst]

Right?

[Sagar Enjeti]

I had no idea until I started listening to Dave. 77% of people just don't pay their credit card, which is wild. I have no idea. I didn't even know that was an option just based on the way I was raised. But it's like, yeah, some people just don't. Just don't pay it.

[Unknown Analyst]

And you're like, oh, okay, so now it's 17%.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So that's where. Yeah, so it's 17%, you know, apr. And that stacks up and it keeps going and it goes and it goes and it goes. And no wonder people earn thousands of dollars in credit card debt. So this whole buy now, pay later model like this, it's proven. If they. The product wouldn't exist if they didn't make any money.

[Unknown Analyst]

If people paid on time, they wouldn't make $2 billion a year. We have no fees, but we have 2 billion in revenue. How'd that happen?

[Sagar Enjeti]

It's devastating.

[Unknown Analyst]

Weird.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It's not good. It's really. It's bad. And it's just more about people, you know, sinking into a money hole thinking that they're getting something convenient. Yes. I think the consumer and all that should do due diligence, et cetera. But there's something just really gross, you know, about all of this being just so ever present. It's just never been. There's never been an easier time in human history to get cripplingly in debt and ruin your life. I really believe that between credit cards and buy now, pay later and upcharges and food delivery fees and all, it's just like the entire ecosystem is just designed to part you with whatever dollars that you happen to have left.

[Unknown Analyst]

The VC's very cleverly got the whole country hooked on cheap delivery.

[Sagar Enjeti]

True. Very true.

[Unknown Analyst]

It was like basically free and subsidized by the VC billions. And then just gradually they start turning the temperature up on the cost of it and now you're hooked on getting it delivered.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yep. Sorry guys, we didn't have time to talk about the soda story. Really wanted to, but we went long with Glen and I think that's probably a lot more beneficial to the audience in hearing about this. So it's. But don't worry about it. You're going to get it all on Tuesday.

[Unknown Analyst]

Solve this tomorrow.

[Sagar Enjeti]

We will see you all then.

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