3/26/25: Signal Leak Meltdown, Dr Oz Shatters Medicare, Russiagate Unsealed, Snow White Flop & MORE!

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar Episode: 3/26/25: Signal Leak Meltdown, Dr Oz Shatters Medicare, Russiagate Unsealed, Snow White Flop & MORE!
Release Date: March 26, 2025
Hosted by Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti

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Introduction

In this episode of Breaking Points, hosts Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti delve into a multitude of pressing political and social issues, ranging from high-profile political scandals and policy shifts to impactful media controversies and international conflicts. The discussion is rich with detailed analysis, insider insights, and critical evaluations of current events shaping the political landscape.

---

1. Signal Leak Meltdown

Timestamp: 02:27 - 13:34

The hosts open with an in-depth examination of the recent Signal leak involving Michael Waltz, the National Security Advisor. The controversy centers around Waltz's unexpected addition of Jeffrey Goldberg, a prominent journalist, to a Signal group chat without prior communication.

• Saagar: "One of the key issues here is credibility. Michael Waltz claims he hasn't communicated with Jeffrey Goldberg, yet Goldberg appears in his Signal contacts dating back eight years." [10:37]

• Krystal: "This discrepancy undermines Waltz's credibility and raises questions about the integrity of his claims." [12:24]

The hosts dissect Waltz's defensive stance on media interactions and the broader implications for national security and trust in public officials. They also highlight the political fallout and the skepticism it fosters within the administration.

---

2. Dr. Oz Shatters Medicare

Timestamp: 34:12 - 45:00

The conversation shifts to a critical analysis of Dr. Mehmet Oz's ambitious plan to privatize Medicare. Saagar presents findings from Dropsite’s investigation, outlining how Oz's strategy could fundamentally alter the healthcare landscape.

• Saagar: "Dr. Oz's proposal leverages the Affordable Care Act's pilot programs, allowing CMS to expand Medicare Advantage without Congressional approval. This move threatens to transition Medicare into a fully privatized system." [34:12]

• Krystal: "The potential for significant cost hikes and reduced access to essential services for seniors is alarming. Privatization could prioritize profits over patient care." [45:00]

The hosts discuss the mechanisms through which Oz aims to implement these changes and the potential resistance from various stakeholders, including the Department of Justice's ongoing lawsuits against Medicare Advantage fraud.

---

3. Russiagate Unsealed

Timestamp: 45:54 - 73:23

President Trump has ordered the declassification of all files related to the Crossfire Hurricane investigation, which probed alleged Russian interference in the 2016 election. The hosts explore the motivations behind this move and its potential ramifications.

• Sagar: "This declassification is a clear attempt to reopen old wounds and potentially sway public opinion by revealing information that could be politically damaging to key figures." [46:00]

• Krystal: "While it's a significant step towards transparency, the likelihood of uncovering groundbreaking new information remains uncertain. The impact on Trump's legacy and ongoing investigations is yet to be seen." [50:58]

The discussion includes an analysis of previously unreleased documents, the probable redactions, and the historical context of the Russiagate narrative. They also consider the response from the FBI and broader political implications.

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4. Snow White Flop

Timestamp: 73:23 - 89:25

The episode addresses the controversy surrounding Disney's "Snow White" movie, specifically focusing on lead actress Rachel Ziegler's political statements and their impact on the film's performance.

• Saagar: "Rachel Ziegler's tweet 'and always remember free Palestine' during the D23 event sparked backlash, leading to internal turmoil within Disney and affecting the movie's reception." [75:49]

• Krystal: "The decision to place political messages alongside major studio promotions creates a confusing narrative that can alienate diverse audience segments, ultimately harming the film's box office results." [104:12]

The hosts critique Disney's handling of political expressions within its productions, the subsequent negative reviews from critics, and the broader implications for corporate media entities navigating political sensitivities.

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5. Apology by Representative Jasmine Crockett

Timestamp: 53:09 - 112:25

Representative Jasmine Crockett faces backlash for derogatory remarks about Texas Governor Greg Abbott, leading to a controversial apology.

• Saagar: "Crockett's apology appears insincere, as it primarily focuses on disputing the offense rather than retracting her statements about Abbott's condition." [55:04]

• Krystal: "This incident highlights the challenges politicians face in balancing provocative rhetoric with respectful discourse, especially when addressing sensitive topics related to disabilities." [56:09]

The hosts analyze the political ramifications of Crockett's comments, the nature of her apology, and the broader discourse on political correctness and accountability in elected officials.

---

6. Assassination of Journalist Hossam Shabbat in Gaza

Timestamp: 77:17 - 99:36

A poignant segment discusses the targeted assassination of Palestinian journalist Hossam Shabbat by Israeli forces, shedding light on the perilous conditions for journalists in conflict zones.

• Hossam's Editor, Sharif Abdelkadoos: "Hossam was dedicated to documenting the atrocities in Gaza, often placing himself in extreme danger to ensure the world witnessed the realities on the ground." [83:33]

• Krystal: "The international community's indifference to such targeted killings not only silences vital voices but also emboldens further attacks against journalists." [92:40]

The conversation covers Hossam's contributions, the Israeli military's justification for his assassination, and the emotional and societal impact of such acts on the Palestinian community and global journalism.

---

7. Interview with College Democrats on Gen Z Challenges

Timestamp: 60:14 - 75:11

The hosts interview Sunjay Murlatharn and Sohali Vadula, President and Vice President of the College Democrats of America, respectively. The discussion centers on the challenges the Democratic Party faces in engaging Gen Z voters, particularly addressing the disconnect between authentic youth representation and the party's strategic use of influencers.

• Sunjay Murlatharn: "There's a significant divide between influencers who genuinely represent Gen Z interests and those who are merely puppets for political agendas, leading to a loss of trust among young voters." [75:11]

• Sohali Vadula: "The party needs authentic voices that resonate with Gen Z's values and concerns rather than relying on 'cringe' influencers who do not genuinely advocate for change." [60:14]

The interview highlights the internal struggles within the Democratic Party to maintain relevance with younger demographics, the problematic reliance on commodified influencer culture, and suggestions for fostering genuine engagement and representation.

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8. Conclusion

In wrapping up, Krystal and Saagar reflect on the interconnectedness of the discussed issues, emphasizing the need for accountability, transparency, and genuine representation in both politics and media. They underscore the importance of informed public discourse in addressing systemic challenges and fostering a more equitable society.

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Notable Quotes

• Saagar Enjeti: "The lesson here is credibility matters. Discrepancies like Waltz's claim versus evidence can erode public trust." [07:10]
• Krystal Ball: "Privatizing Medicare isn't just a policy shift; it's a fundamental transformation that could disadvantage the very people it's supposed to help." [41:24]
• Saagar Enjeti: "Declassification might not reveal earth-shattering information, but it opens the door for potential transparency, albeit controlled and possibly redacted." [46:00]
• Hossam's Editor, Sharif Abdelkadoos: "Hossam's dedication to journalism in Gaza makes his assassination a severe blow to unbiased reporting in conflict zones." [83:33]

Final Thoughts

This episode of Breaking Points provides a comprehensive look at the multifaceted issues influencing today's political and social climate. From internal political scandals and policy shifts to the critical role of media and international conflicts, Krystal and Saagar offer incisive commentary aimed at holding power accountable and advocating for transparent, authentic representation.

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For more in-depth analysis and ongoing coverage, visit Breaking Points.

Transcript

[Adam]

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[Sagar]

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[Krystal]

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[Adam]

Hey guys.

[Sagar]

Sagar and Krystal here.

[Adam]

Independent media just played a truly massive.

[Emily]

Role in this election and we are.

[Adam]

So excited about what that means for.

[Sagar]

The future of this show. This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else. So if that is something that's important.

[Adam]

To you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become.

[Sagar]

A member today and you'll get access.

[Adam]

To full shows, unedited ad free and.

[Sagar]

All put together for you every morning in your inbox. We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see [e-mail] all right. Good morning and welcome. Counterpoints. Emily, I've been hanging out in the studio all week long.

[Ryan]

I know.

[Sagar]

Welcome.

[Ryan]

I was gonna say here's some feminine energy for you.

[Sagar]

Half bro show.

[Ryan]

Yes, yes, yes. Although sometimes I think I'm more of a bro than Sagar. No offense, Sagar, but yeah, he doesn't always bro out. He can't even drink beer. All right, so we had a huge show today, Ryan.

[Sagar]

We have to get through.

[Ryan]

And multiple guests on really interesting stuff. So looking forward to that. We have obviously more updates on Signal Gate, one of the better gates, I'll say, Ryan, some of these updates, some of these video clips. Donald Trump weighed in yesterday. Michael Waltz was on Laura Ingraham. So we got a lot to talk about. We'll go through all of that. Ryan has some reporting and dropsite on Dr. Oz, who sailed through his committee confirmation yesterday, will head to a full vote on the Senate floor. What does that mean for Social Security or I'm sorry, what does that mean for healthcare? What does that mean for Medicare? What does that mean for anyone who is on those plans? And maybe in the near future we have all kinds of stuff to get to on that. The FBI might not be super happy. This morning, Donald Trump ordered the full declassification of everything related to the Crossfire hurricane investigation. You may remember that as the code name for the investigation into whether Donald Trump colluded with Russia back in 2016. Jasmine Crockett had quite a moment yesterday going after Governor Greg Abbott of Texas. So we will bring you that footage and the responses to it. Ryan, we have some guests from the college Democrats here.

[Sagar]

Yeah, there's a huge clash going on in Gen Z among two different camps of Democrats. There's the kind of cringe, sellout, influencer element that seems to always get elevated by the media as representative of Gen Z. And then the actual kind of young people who have very particular opinions about war and the economy and culture and the schools, et cetera. One gets all the attention, the other doesn't. And so we're gonna let these ones dunk on these ones. We're gonna have the president of the college Dems and the VP on to talk about the problem of cringe in their generation, cringe and cashing out, which.

[Ryan]

By the way, used to be almost solely owned by the right.

[Sagar]

Yes, you're right. The idea that you'd have authentic earnest people in college Democrats who cared about making the world a better place is a foreign concept to me. Those were the cringe strivers and climbers back when I was coming up.

[Ryan]

Yeah. So lots to talk about there. And Ryan, we have Sharif with us as well.

[Sagar]

Yes, my colleague Sharif Abdelkadoos, who was Hossam Shabbat's editor over at Dropsite. He's gonna talk about what it was like to work with Hosam, his life, his death we'll also talk about some of the marches that were in Gaza yesterday and that are planned for again today.

[Ryan]

And we're gonna talk about, on a much, much lighter note, Snow White and why it's bombing or maybe why, I don't know. We're gonna get to the bottom of it, right?

[Sagar]

Your kids saw it? Yeah.

[Ryan]

Oh, your kids saw it. Did they like it?

[Sagar]

Yeah, it's fine.

[Ryan]

They're some of the few people in America who have seen the movie.

[Sagar]

It was a birthday party organized around it.

[Ryan]

That one's going to be for producer Griffin. Shout out to producer Griffin. So we do have some interesting, I mean, obviously there's some pretty fascinating dynamics between Rachel Zeigler and Gal Gadot. There are interesting political dynamics between Rachel Zegler and Gal Gadot, but also just Rachel Zeigler's position on Israel, Gal Gadot's position on Israel. So we'll go through how that may or may not be influencing the way business is treating the movie and break it all down. Let's start with returning to Signal Gate because there's a lot more to get to. Donald Trump yesterday defended Michael Waltz. I think it's fair to say the wagons are circling around him. The administration has made a conscious decision to defend Michael Waltz, even though, as you will see in just a moment, his own defense of himself is dubious at best. So let's listen to Donald Trump yesterday. This is a one.

[Sagar]

It's a question I've been asked now and I've given a. A few answers and they've all been the same. We have an amazing group. Our national security now is stronger than it's ever been. We have had a very, very successful, numerous attacks on that area. These are people that shoot down ships. Not only our ships, ships all over the world. They're shooting down right out of the water. Exactly, things like that. But I don't think it's something we're looking forward to using again. We may be forced to use it. You may be in a situation where you need speed as opposed to gross safety, and you may be forced to use it. But generally speaking, I think we probably won't be using it very much.

[Ryan]

Now let's hear from Michael Waltz himself, who spoke at that meeting, and later on, Laura Ingraham. We're going to start here with a two Waltz from that same meeting.

[Sagar]

The lesson is there's a lot of.

[Sharif]

Journalists in this city who have made big names for themselves making up lies.

[Sagar]

About this president, whether it's the Russia hoax or making up lies about gold Star families and this one in particular I've never met, don't know, never communicated with. And we are, and we are looking into him, reviewing how the heck he got into this room. But I'll tell you what, the world owes President Trump a favor.

[Sharif]

Under Biden, global shipping was shut down.

[Sagar]

Pinprick attacks, months between them, our destroyers being fired upon dozens of times. President Trump took decisive action with his national security team.

[Ryan]

Really important point to contrast with Waltz's story and Goldberg's story. He says right there he does not know Goldberg. He says he has never communicated or met him. And in Goldberg's story, he does say that they have communicated. So as Sager points out, someone's, someone's lying here.

[Sagar]

Yes.

[Ryan]

Right.

[Sagar]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

All right. So he was pushed even further last night on Laura Ingraham show on FOX News. Let's take a look at this next clip.

[Sagar]

I built the group to. My job is to make sure everything's coordinated. But how did that execute? I mean, I don't mean to be.

[Hossam]

Pedantic here, but how did the number.

[Sharif]

Have you ever had a, have you.

[Sagar]

Ever had somebody's contact that shows their.

[Sharif]

Name and then you have an, and.

[Sagar]

Then you have somebody else number those mistakes. Right? You've got somebody else's number on someone else's contact. So of course I didn't see this loser in the group. It looked like someone else. Now, whether he did it deliberately or it happened in some other technical mean is something we're trying to figure out. So a staffer did not put his contact information, but how did it end up? Well, that's what we're trying to, that's what we're trying to figure out.

[Hossam]

Okay, but that's a pretty big problem.

[Sagar]

That is what we've got the best technical minds. Right?

[Sharif]

That's disturbing.

[Sagar]

And that's where, I mean, I'm sure everybody out there has had a contact where you. It was said one person and then a different phone number.

[Hossam]

But you've never talked to him before. So how's the number on your phone?

[Sagar]

I mean, I'm not an expert on.

[Hossam]

Any of this, but it's just curious.

[Sagar]

How's the number on your phone? Well, if you have somebody else's contact.

[Sharif]

And then it's, and then somehow, oh.

[Sagar]

Someone knew that it gets sucked in. Was there someone else supposed to be.

[Hossam]

On the chat that wasn't on the.

[Ryan]

Chat that you thought was.

[Sagar]

So the person that I thought was on there was never on there. It was. Who was that person? Well, I'm not. Look Laura, I take. I take responsibility. I built the. I built.

[Ryan]

Okay, so they're not answering the question about who that may have been. I think a lot of people agree. It seems like it was probably Jameson Greer, U.S. trade Representative. Would make sense in the context of that conversation. Don't know that for sure, though. Could very well be other people, but I think they don't want to bring another name into it unnecessarily. That would be my guess.

[Sagar]

Right. Okay, so I think I can undercut something he just said there. He's presenting the idea that he used to be friends with some other 202 number that got into his phone.

[Ryan]

I see what's up on your phone right now.

[Sagar]

And Goldberg then later. Goldberg then later got that number, and then that's how he snuck into the phone. So I have not talked to Jeffrey Goldberg as far as I can remember since 2017.

[Ryan]

Okay.

[Sagar]

So I just checked Signal, and his same number came up. Okay, so that's eight years ago.

[Ryan]

Okay.

[Sagar]

So unless Michael Waltz met and Goldberg threatened to sue us, actually, at HuffPost.

[Ryan]

Oh, really?

[Sagar]

Because we were. Did a story about him being an idf.

[Ryan]

Yeah, I was just going to ask.

[Sagar]

If that's prison guard and beating a prisoner. And his argument was he was there and witnessed the beating, but didn't participate in the beating. I didn't write the story anyway. So in any event, his number has not changed for eight years, at least, according to my quick search of Signal. And he does show up as jg.

[Ryan]

Yep.

[Sagar]

But also Jeffrey Goldberg, because he's in my contacts. But if he didn't, he would show up as jg.

[Ryan]

Right. Right. And that's an important thing with Signal, is that theoretically there's an argument. And I don't think this makes it necessarily better for Waltz if he's claiming they've never communicated. There are two possibilities here that would have been easy for him to explain away. First of all, maybe he called Goldberg at some point to push back on a story or to dispel. This is like the charitable explanation from his point of view. Maybe he called Jeffrey Goldberg to push back on a story and say, you got something wrong, something that principals do sometimes, especially to an eic. Some people have been saying, well, Jeffrey Goldberg hasn't reported anything in over a year. True. He's the editor in chief. He sends some of his tips to his reporters, or he takes calls, fields calls from principals who are saying, man, you got the story really wrong. I don't want you to run this story pressuring him. That could all be Plausible. Could have been acceptable. And then you would have him potentially pop up on your signal. But the other thing that could have happened is he could have been in a signal group with Jeffrey Goldberg, and Goldberg isn't in his contacts.

[Sagar]

And.

[Ryan]

And then it shows up on signal.

[Sagar]

Now if they do it in a signal group.

[Ryan]

Right. So none of this, none of this works for Michael Waltz. And that's why it's interesting.

[Sagar]

We're all trying to figure out how this happens.

[Ryan]

It's feeling like Joy Reid level time traveling hackers said. Yeah, that's what it's starting to feel like. There's. It's starting to get rather shameless. Yeah. The time traveling hackers explanation. Joy Reid had all of these posts on her old blog that she no longer wanted to own. Didn't really fit with her pro LGBT brand, and said someone must have time traveled and put them into the Wayback Machine somehow. We're at that level here with Michael Waltz.

[Sagar]

Yeah. Which. Come on, man, like you fat thumbed it. You typed in JG to get. Who was the ustr?

[Ryan]

Jameson Greer. It could have been someone else too, though.

[Sagar]

It would make sense that if they've got the Treasury Secretary, War is a racket. We need all of our money guys, apparently in our war planning. Like, why is the Treasury Secretary there? And if you're gonna have the Treasury Secretary, you might as well have the trade rep, because it's all about trade. So in any event, he hits a JG and adds that jg.

[Ryan]

Right.

[Sagar]

Which don't you work for, like the intelligence community. You kind of should double check before you just JG are fairly common letters in the Alphabet.

[Ryan]

He is the national security advisor. I mean, he is in no position to advise anyone on national security at this.

[Sagar]

It's so embarrassing.

[Ryan]

So it's all. Obviously, this is not just touchy. Michael Waltz. Tulsi Gabbard was testifying, and John Ratcliffe, CIA Director, was testifying in front of the intel committee yesterday. So let's take a look at both of them fielding some questions on this. Let's start with a four. This is Tulsi Gabbard.

[Sagar]

Contact the Defense Secretary or others after this specific military planning was put out and say, hey, we should be doing this in a scifold.

[Adam]

There was no classified material that was shared in that.

[Sagar]

So then if there was no classified material, share it with the committee. You can't have it both ways. These are important jobs. This is our national security bobbing and weaving and trying to, you know, filibuster your answer. So please Answer.

[Ryan]

So here's CIA Director John Ratcliffe, who was also testifying on Capitol Hill yesterday.

[Sharif]

Thank you.

[Sagar]

One final point, Ms. Kim. Well, are you going to give me a chance? Is it appropriate? Did you know that the President's Middle east adviser was in Moscow on this thread while you were, as Director of the CIA, participating in this. In this thread? Were you aware of that? Are you aware of that today? I'm not aware of that today. This sloppiness, this incompetence, this disrespect for our intelligence agencies. Agencies and the personnel who work for him is entirely unacceptable. It's an embarrassment. Senator, you need to do better. You need to do better.

[Ryan]

I regret to do this. I regret to inform you we have more. Take a look at A six.

[Sagar]

Your question was, have I participated in any other group chats sharing classified information? To be clear, I haven't participated in any signal group messaging that relates to any classified information at all. Okay, Director Gabbard.

[Ryan]

Senator, I have the same answer.

[Adam]

I have not participated in any signal.

[Ryan]

Group chat or any other chat on another app that contained any classified information.

[Sagar]

I don't know if you use signal messaging app. I do. I do. Not for classified information, not for targeting. Well, neither do I, Senator. Remote. Neither do I, Senator. Well, that's where your testimony is today. It absolutely is not, Senator, where? You know what? At the beginning. No. When I said that I was using it as permitted. It is permissible.

[Hossam]

I agree.

[Sagar]

That's your testimony. Yeah, I agree. That's your testimony. You asked me if I use it, and I said, not for targeting. Not for classified information. And I said I don't either.

[Ryan]

So that's obviously the Senate Intel Committee. I think I said House earlier. They're testifying in front of the House Intel Committee today, actually. So this isn't gonna end. But I have to say, Ryan, if we're giving out gold medals, I think probably John Ratcliffe gets one for handling it better than anyone else. But that's a low bar.

[Sagar]

I mean, I don't know. Like, he seemed to be kind of flagrantly lying there, too.

[Ryan]

Oh, yeah. No, I mean in terms of his performance, not in terms of the merits of his response.

[Sagar]

Tulsi's. Well, Tulsi seemed to be lying there at the end, too, because obviously there was classified information on this thing. The identity of the CIA agent who was representing Ratcliffe was on the thread. That by itself is classified information. They're going to then say that the timing and the precise munitions to be used for an airstrike that hasn't happened yet. That that's open, that it would be fine if a sailor took that information and posted it on TikTok or in a discord like that. Come on, that's utterly insulting. I thought that Bennett, the Colorado senator there, had the best argument, and that is the Democrats best argument, where he's saying, look, this is not theoretical here. Steve Witkoff was in Moscow. So there are still questions that we don't have the answers to yet. A key one being did he have his phone with him? And we could actually gotta go back and check the thread, see if he's responding, sending the emojis. You know, he's one of the ones that sent a whole bunch of emojis.

[Ryan]

He did send emojis.

[Sagar]

Yeah, but was he already out of Moscow when he did? Well, if.

[Ryan]

Well, we don't.

[Sagar]

If he was out, then where'd he get his phone? So he must have taken his phone with him because often they will tell you, don't take your government phone to China, to Russia, et cetera, for obvious reasons, because they're gonna get on it, they're gonna jump on that phone, and then your end to end encryption doesn't mean anything if they're inside your phone. A second key point. This is an old man real estate developer. Does this sound like the kind of guy who probably has his phone locked down to the maximum extent possible? No, he's an old man real estate developer.

[Emily]

Yeah.

[Sagar]

And you're sending him while he's in Moscow the names of CIA agents and the precise timing and the precise kind of attack you're going to launch on an organization that is linked with Russia. Russia doesn't fund them, but they're in that same orbit. Like Iran backs the Houthis. Russia and Iran have relations. If Russia gets a hold of that information, they'd like nothing more than to make life difficult for the American service members who are then going to be carrying out that attack. By the way, the key thing from an actual substance perspective that came out of this hearing, this was supposed to be a hearing on global threats and the intelligence community's assessment, annual assessment of threats. And Republicans are saying they waited till the day before to spring this so that it would dominate this hearing. Probably true. Clever if they did. The key thing to me that emerged from this hearing and from these reports is that the intelligence community's assessment of Iran's nuclear ambitions is that Khamenei dispatched with their program in 2003 and has shown no interest since then in restarting it. That is our intelligence community now under the Trump administration. That's our intelligence community's assessment of Iran's nuclear ambitions. Not doing it. He said there is some public pressure on him to do it. And then there's now more talk in Iran because for obvious reasons about kind of pushing him to do it. But as far as they can tell, he hasn't moved any closer to doing it. That's getting overshadowed by this by Idiot Gate over here.

[Adam]

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[Krystal]

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[Ryan]

Yeah, many such cases. That does seem to be the modus operandi of United States politics in the era of social media.

[Sagar]

And everything has to come back to this like, you've got to be kidding me. Level of irony. We lived through 2015 and 2016 where we were told that Hillary Clinton sending like sort of classified information on her own personal email, like meet, like when she's gonna have a meeting with the Bulgarian ambassador or whatever like that. Like they classify everything in the government so that would be like technically classified. There was some, nobody cares when she's meeting with the Bulgarian ambassador, but we were told that like, well, there were.

[Ryan]

Significant, there were significant conversations she was having about foreign policy on there, but I don't know that they were on this level.

[Sagar]

Yes.

[Ryan]

I don't think it was like pretty hard. Yes.

[Sagar]

If they were on this level, Comey would have charged her.

[Ryan]

Well, I don't know.

[Sagar]

I mean I think there's no question that he would have charged her.

[Ryan]

So Elon Musk also is standing by Mike Waltz despite Elon Musk being left off this very fun group chat, by the way.

[Sagar]

Yeah, if you got got Witkoff, you got Suzy Wiles.

[Ryan]

Yeah, yeah. So Lindsey Graham posts yesterday, I agree with President Trump that Mike Waltz is an invaluable member of his national security team, that he should continue to serve the President in our country. Not actually really doing Mike Waltz any favors there to get the Lindsey Graham stamp of confidence. But Elon Musk quote, tweeted that or quote x that whatever and said same. So what's interesting about that, Ryan, is Trump, Musk, Lindsey Graham, everybody standing behind Mike Waltz, they're putting him on media, letting him speak to the press. He's going on Laura Ingraham. He has this defense that is, I mean, laughably implausible and unpersuasive. They're not even sending him out there with some type of clever maneuvering. He's just going out there and saying like space aliens, basically. Joy Reid level. Sorry, that was a little flippant. But essentially he's saying maybe somebody hacked into the phone, changed his contact, something weird could have happened. It's not a convincing explanation. So I think Ryan, what's probably going to happen is he's going to realize he's lost the confidence of everybody around him. Even if Trump publicly is projecting confidence, Musk is publicly projecting confidence. This has been Used. And I know you guys have talked about this, it's obviously been used by the people who already did not trust Mike Waltz, who are already unhappy with Mike Waltz because they see him as a holdover, sort of like a Pompeo type figure. And Pompeo is extremely controversial in the sort of hardcore MAGA circles. Controversial with people like Don Jr. Tucker Carlson, who will also look at someone like Michael Waltz, even if they don't say it publicly, privately with skepticism and not complete and total trust.

[Sagar]

Like, Waltz was signaling to the Ukrainians that he was going to, you know, push for more war support, you know, ahead of Besant and Vance and other trip. Other. Other people's trips to the region where they were pursuing Trump's policy of no, we're going to end this war. So, like every. Everywhere around the world where if there's, if there's a war on the table, Waltz is for it, whereas the others are kind of pushing back against it. So, yeah, that it's, it's feeding into that internal. Internal fight.

[Ryan]

Right. And even for the people who agree with him ideologically, I think he's going to find out that it's very, very hard to take your boss seriously or your peer seriously at the cabinet level when that's what's happening, especially when he's.

[Sagar]

Doing interviews like that elsewhere. He said, like, isn't it interesting that this terrible, horrible, devious reporter's information was. He was the one that happened to be sucked in.

[Ryan]

Right.

[Sagar]

To this, this loser. This loser. Like, as if there was some deep state conspiracy.

[Ryan]

Right.

[Sagar]

To, like, foist Jeffrey Goldberg onto this group chat. That it wasn't just Waltz who fat thumbed him in there recklessly.

[Ryan]

Right. Well, and there seems to be.

[Sagar]

And then added Witkoff for no reason. Like, I like Witkoff. Like, he's. There's no insult to him. He's not on a need to know basis about the timing of the strikes on Yemen.

[Ryan]

He's Middle east envoy.

[Sagar]

Yeah, but he doesn't have any operational control over, like, what you're going to bomb in Yemen.

[Ryan]

I suppose it's possible that if he's in the middle of ceasefire negotiations, they would want to wrap him into that. If he's communicating with.

[Sagar]

I put on this signal chat while he's in Moscow.

[Ryan]

No signal chat. He seemed, let alone if he's in.

[Sagar]

Moscow, he seemed to not know that he was in Moscow. He said he didn't know he was in Moscow. Yeah, It's a knowable thing. It's in the news. Yeah.

[Ryan]

He's also again the national Security advisor.

[Sagar]

He'S not reading his briefings.

[Ryan]

Yeah, no, it's, I mean it's all completely ridiculous. But it's I think also probably going to turn out for Walt that my prediction is that he just resigns after a while. But that'll be a significant loss for the Lindsey Grahams of the world, which is probably why they're doubling down because it's going to be hard to find another person that is sort of has the ideological leanings of Walt but also the confidence of Trump and Trump world. That's actually why I think Lindsey, there's.

[Sagar]

Plenty of people in who have those leanings. Trump doesn't trust a lot of them.

[Ryan]

Yeah. I mean even like a Robert O'Brien or a Mike Pompeo, those people are not totally trusted by the Don Juniors, the Tucker Carlson's. So it's hard to find somebody who just is even able to get along with that wing. Gets along with Pete Hegseth as we saw in the signal chat. I mean the story is wild. I mean it's just.

[Sagar]

And I guess two last points on our buddies Hegseth and Vance here. Hegseth, we were told that he had this come to Jesus moment around America first policy that he was no longer this strident war supporter around 201617 he starts to come out and say he was wrong about the Iraq war and he's wrong about America's kind of muscular policeman role in the world. On this group chat he's a, he wants the US to be the policeman for the world but he's just a little bit bitter about it. That because he doesn't like Europe, like that's like that's pretty weak. And then on Vance, like it was nice to see him stand up and make an anti war argument but then immediately he's like, well nevermind, if everybody wants to do it, then go ahead and do it. Which is like, well then what's your point? Like what's your role here? And if you think that this war is inconsistent with Trump's vision for the world, which he said it was and that we haven't sold it to the American public, you have Trump's number. Call the guy up.

[Ryan]

He may have, I mean, I don't know.

[Sagar]

I mean on the thread he just buckled.

[Ryan]

Yeah, he buckled. Well, I mean the times or the time gaps, probably the best way to say it between. It's a little unclear to me because I think at one point there was a full day that went by.

[Adam]

Right?

[Sagar]

Yeah. Maybe called him that Night. I didn't seem like it, though.

[Ryan]

No idea. Yeah, no idea. But such is the life of a vice president. But yeah. Also he was trying to be persuasive, which is another interesting point of it. He's trying to be persuasive to Hegseth. Trying to be persuasive. So who. I mean, it's interesting with Hegseth how he recommends that the AS waltz is asking for points of contact. He recommends Dan Caldwell, who's someone very much from the skeptical. The world of skeptics of American imperial escapades. So there are genuinely interesting tensions in Trump world. And this was some interesting insight. Before we wrap though, Ryan, any of the conspiracy theories holding water with you? They aren't really with me that this was zero intentional.

[Sagar]

This was a planned leak we saw. It's clear how it happened. He added him accidentally to the thing.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sagar]

And then. Yeah. Did they have the story ready like four days ago and hold it so that it would have maximum impact right before these hearings? Sure. All right, we have a quick breaking update. We can put this element up on the screen. So the question of what Pete Hegseth was sending has now been answered. We'll discuss this more on the program. I'll be on with Sagar tomorrow. But. But you can see it here. Pete Hegseth says team Update time now 11:44 Eastern Time. Weather is favorable. Okay, that's not classified. Just confirmed with centcom. We are a go for mission launch. That sounds classified. 1215 ET F18's launch. First strike package. Sounds classified. 1345 trigger based F18 first strike window starts. Target terrorist is at his known location, so should be on time. Okay, so if Russia sees this, you're now telling them at 1:45 Eastern Time, you're going to target this particular terrorist also. And you know, so everybody can just go hide anyway. 14:10 More F18s launch second strike package. 14:15 Strike drones on target. This is when the first drums will definitely drop. Pending earlier trigger based targets. 15:36 F18 second strike starts. Also first sea based tomahawks launched. More to follow per timeline. We are currently clean on opsec, which of course you have to add anytime. Your OPSEC is utterly filthy and lazy. Godspeed to our warriors. All right, so we'll have more on this unfolding idiot gate tomorrow.

[Adam]

Does this podcast make you happy? Of course it does. That's why you're here. But it only comes out once a week. For happiness, every night you need Adam and Eve. Yes. I'm talking about sex. Toys. It's cool. It's cool. You have earbuds in, right? Adam and Eve, America's most trusted source for adult products, has been making people very happy for over 50 years with thousands of toys for both men and women. Just go to AdamAndEve.com now and enter code IHEART for 50% off. Almost any one item, plus free discreet shipping. That's AdamAndEve.com, code IHEART for 50% OFF.

[Krystal]

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[Adam]

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[Krystal]

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[Adam]

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[Ryan]

[e-mail] Ryan Some really interesting and timely new reporting in dropsite on Dr. Oz's plans for Medicare.

[Sagar]

Yes, Dr. Oz wants to privatize Medicare. Let's put up this tear sheet from Alexander Zajcik investigation that we published over at Dropsite. And we'll come back to this in a moment to explain the details of this privatization plan which is not a harebrained scheme that has little chance of success. Our assessment is that he is quite likely to be able to actually pull this off if there's no resistance to it, but so if we put up B2. He cruised through his Senate confirmation hearing yesterday. It was this one of these interesting situations where the hearing needed hearing room was busy doing some Social Security stuff and couldn't meet there. So they met on the Senate floor. They kind of go off to the side of the Senate floor and they just kind of like hold a vote. And so he moves forward. And here is a bit from previously when they did have the hearing room. So we can roll B3 here. Dr. Oz has years of experience as an acclaimed physician and public health advocate. His background makes him uniquely qualified to manage the intricacies of CMS. At his hearing, Dr. Oz discussed his vision to ensure CMS provides Americans with access to superb care, especially our most vulnerable patients. I look forward to working with him if confirmed to accomplish this goal. I was also encouraged to hear that he will focus on modernizing federal health care programs, work to fix our broken clinician payment system, and will partner with Congress to achieve pharmaceutical benefit manager reform. There is no doubt that Dr. Oz will work tirelessly to deliver much needed change at cms. I will be voting in favor of his nomination and I encourage my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to do the same. Okay, so on the Medicare privatization scheme that Dr. Oz is pushing, and we can put up B1 again just for a few seconds so people can see this again. You can go read the full story to get all the details of it.

[Ryan]

And can I ask, you just said is pushing, like currently. This is something that he right now believes in his capacity at this job.

[Sagar]

Yes.

[Ryan]

He can push.

[Sagar]

Yes. And he does not need legislation to do it. And so here's how. So if you're, if you're older, you know, somebody old, you probably have heard of Medicare Advantage, which now roughly half of seniors on Medicare have what are called Medicare Advantage plans. So these are administered by private companies which are given a set amount of money by the government. And then if they can deliver care for the way they profit is by delivering care that costs less than that. The way they sell it to you is they say, we're going to do preventive stuff, we're going to make sure that you get your checkups, we're going to keep you healthy. Because to us, we profit. If you don't use health care services, and in order to not use health care services, that means you're healthy, that's great. Like if that is how you keep healthcare costs down, that's what everybody wants, right? People don't want necessarily cheap or affordable healthcare services. What they would like is no healthcare services. You don't want to be in the doctor's office or the hospital. What happens in practice though, is that it's much easier to just deny people care because it's much harder to upfront make sure that people are staying healthier. Now, Medicare, actual regular Medicare, is not allowed to advertise. It's not allowed to go out and recruit people to its program. Medicare Advantage spends a lot of its money advertising its Medicare Advantage plans. And they say, join us because we'll give you dental and vision and we'll deliver groceries to you. Like they have all these other little pluses that when you're healthy, you're like, oh, that sounds great. And so they sign up for these privatized plans and then they love it until they come to actually use the plan. You're like, oh, that's not in network. The only in network person is like 120 miles from here that's not covered. And so you get the typical private insurance nightmares, but even in your public health care plan. And now you're stuck in this, now you're stuck in this situation. Dr. Oz has been a pitch man for Medicare Advantage for many, many years, like on his programs. And because Medicare Advantage, there's so much profit in getting, signing these old folks up to it, they would go out and they would hire these pitch men all over the country, say, look, you bring us somebody, we'll pay you. You get a finder's fee. Just same way if you sign somebody up for Squarespace or whatever on your podcast and you get 10 bucks, sign somebody up for Medicare Advantage who watched Dr. Oz's show, we'll give you $2,000 or whatever it is. There's an enormous amount of money in signing somebody up for Medicare Advantage. So he's been entangled with this for a very long time. He also, of course, owns, I think he owns something like $600,000 in United Health stock, which he has said he would sell. They're a significant player in Medicare Advantage. Now the irony is that Dr. Oz's ability to privatize Medicare comes from the Affordable Care Act. Obamacare set up these pilot programs that said because one of the driving impulses of Obamacare was how do we deliver better healthcare for less. And so they said, we're going to set up a pilot program and if this private company or this nonprofit can show that it actually is making people healthier, then we will expand access to that program. And so there are a Number of pilot programs that are running through what's called cmmi, Medicare and Medicaid Innovation, I think it's called. And what almost all of them are finding is that Medicare Advantage delivers worse outcomes for more money, yet the private companies make decent, healthy profits off the top of it. That's what the pilot programs are showing. All Dr. Oz will have to do is come in with a rubber stamp that says successfully and rubber stamp those projects. And it's a subjective decision that will be left to Dr. Oz to say, I find these to be successful. And then boom, they are wide open to everyone in Medicare Advantage. And then the last thing they would have to do is just default every senior into Medicare Advantage and make them kind of actively move out of that into regular Medicare. And because Medicare has no capacity to advocate for itself, within a couple of years you would go from 50% of people on Medicare Advantage to almost everybody on Medicare Advantage. And by then, once you're down to 2010, 20% of people on Medicare Proper, it no longer is able, doesn't have the economies of scale anymore and it just completely collapses and we're left with privatized Medicare.

[Ryan]

And so my personal perspective on this is why our healthcare system is the worst of both worlds. You end up with the worst of a market system, or quote unquote, free market system, and the worst of a bureaucratic system. When you have these halfway measures, it's such a disaster. Such a good example of why it's a disaster. But also, Ryan, you mentioned this doesn't have to go through Congress, Right?

[Sagar]

Because the authority for it is vested in the Affordable Care act, which already went through Congress.

[Ryan]

That's interesting.

[Sagar]

So the ACA says if these pilot programs are successful, they can be then expanded by the head of CMS. And the head of CMS runs CMMI, which runs these pilot programs. And so Obama gave Dr. Oz the power to privatize Medicare.

[Ryan]

Why isn't, why isn't Doge taking it away?

[Sagar]

That's actually a very good point. The Department of Justice is currently suing a bunch of Medicare Advantage scammers to the tune of tens and hundreds of billions of dollars. If Elon Musk and Doge or whoever is running Doge, Doge wanted, doggy wanted to actually sniff out some real savings and some real waste, fraud and abuse. Medicare Advantage is one of the first places anybody serious about going after fraud would go. Instead, we're going to just expand it to what Dr. Oz calls Medicare Advantage for all. So yes, if you're serious about waste, fraud and abuse. This is the place to go, meanwhile. And yet they're not. So draw your own conclusions.

[Ryan]

Trump's the guy Trump picked to head up Social Security. His name is Frank Bisnano. He's CEO of fiserv, actually, which is an interesting sort of person to pull from. But anyway, meanwhile, this is just yesterday. He is saying that they will restore any customer service glitches, but they're not going to cut Social Security. Donald Trump has said obviously that's his red line. But you can see how the Oz plan is pitched as something a little bit different. Right. That Donald Trump might not look at that and say, okay, this is cutting. Right. Like it's actually something that you could see being pitched to him and him going along with.

[Sagar]

Yeah. And Trump is a pitch man like Dr. Oz. Yeah. The only reason that Trump hasn't sold Medicare Advantage plans and nobody got in front of him with the idea, maybe they did. We just don't know about it. But yeah, Trump would understand this. Oh, so we're going to offer them some surface level benefits. We'll mail you a toothbrush and you can get groceries delivered and you get dental coverage. Good luck trying to use that dental coverage, by the way. But it looks good, it sounds good. And then we get to keep all the money by denying them care. It's like a classic scheme that a private equity company can use because of this massive asymmetric warfare. On the one hand, you've got a private equity company with a bunch of McKinsey level quant geeks who have these spreadsheets in front of them and figuring out how best to maximize their profits. And on the other hand, on the other side of the ledger, you have Grandma and Grandpa who are just going to get just annihilated in that competition. That's not a marketplace that's going to be fair.

[Ryan]

All right, well, that's one to watch because he's headed to the full floor and it's likely to pass. Yeah, we'll see. Let's move on to the FBI, which is not too far from where we're filming this. And I'm sure is not pleased with the news, though it was certainly expected that everything related to the Crossfire hurricane investigation, that was the FBI's investigation into whether or not Russia interfered with the 2016 election. Very specifically, they would say it was broad, but. And you know, Russia did interfere with the 2016 election, just not on the magnitude that they pitched to the press and then to the public over the course of years, but more specifically into whether Donald Trump colluded with the Kremlin in order to win the 2016 election. We can go ahead and roll this clip of Donald Trump officially ordering the declassification of everything related to Crossfire Hurricane yesterday.

[Sagar]

Next year we have a presidential memorandum for your attention.

[Sharif]

This memorandum requires the immediate declassification of.

[Sagar]

All FBI files relating to the Crossfire Hurricane investigation. This was obviously one of the instances of the weaponization of law enforcement powers.

[Sharif]

Of prosecution against you and others.

[Sagar]

We believe that it's long past time for the American people to have a full and complete understanding of what exactly is in those files, which gives the media the right to go in and go and check it. You probably won't bother because you're not going to like what you see. But this was total weaponization. It's a disgrace. Should never happen in this country. But now you'll be able to see for yourselves. All declassified, Is that correct? All declassified, yes, sir. Everything the FBI filed with a there's a classified annex. But other than that, this will put everything in the public eye.

[Ryan]

So, Ryan, I think Russiagate is sort of like Covid at this point. There are people who are still, like myself, extremely interested in knowing what happened, but the general public has kind of tuned out of it. So I'm not sure that this is, you know, some sort of grave threat to the FBI because I don't know that it's going to generate major embarrassing news cycles, but surely it will generate some embarrassing information. This is from cnn, they write. This led to a behind the scenes scramble as Republican aides and Trump officials worked to collect and redact a binder filled with highly classified material. Trump officially declassified that material in 19th, 2021 during his last full day in office. But the documents were never made public. An unredacted copy of the binder ended up mysteriously disappearing, as CNN first reported in 2023. Among the binder's contents were reams of information about the Russia investigation, including highly sensitive raw intelligence the US and its NATO allies collected on Russians and Russian agents that informed the US Government's assessment that Russian President Vladimir Putin sought to help Trump win the 20172016 election. That material is likely to be redacted in the documents that are being released publicly. Interestingly enough, Trump says keep those redactions. But CNN goes on to say the binder also included classified information about the FBI's problematic foreign intelligence. Surveillance warrants on Trump campaign adviser from 2017, interview notes with Christopher Steele and internal FBI and DOJ text messages and Emails. And that's important because some of the most damning information to come out of, of any investigation into Crossfire Hurricane has been from the Peter Strzok, Lisa Page text messages where Strzok talked about the FBI having an insurance policy against Donald Trump winning the election. And the other thing, let's put this next element up on the screen. This is a tweet from Mike Davis, who, if you watch Bannon and War Room, you've seen many times, he pointed out, and I didn't know this, I checked it afterwards. He pointed out that that Judge Boasberg, who is now at the center of the entire fight over the deportation flights that he ordered, turned around. He was on the FISA court and ignored the sentencing recommendation for imprisonment and actually gave an FBI attorney named Kevin Kleinsmith, who, again, people who are very deep in the Russiagate hoax remember his name very, very much. They gave him probation instead of imprisonment. He forged an email to use as evidence to surveil Carter Page, an American citizen. And this judge is the one who went with probation over imprisonment on it. So such a crazy knot of different things going on here. That thread I was not familiar with at all. I did not realize Boasberg had any part in that.

[Sagar]

Yeah, prosecutorial misconduct of that level needs some level of serious punishment. And that's like the left has been screaming about prosecutorial overreach for, I mean, hundreds of years. It's partly how you get the radical Bill of Rights in there, but. Yeah. So to completely let him off the hook with just probation is pretty aggressive. On the other hand, guy's life was destroyed, I guess, but you can't do that. You can't frame people up in these secret courts to get the government spying on a campaign. It's outrageous.

[Ryan]

Yeah, but, you know, I don't know about you, but I just, like, I think it's great. Declassify it. Kind of interesting that Trump wants to keep some of the redactions that may be embarrassing, that may look like, you know, Putin was saying nice things about him or something like that. So that's interesting. But also, I just don't. I don't know that this will have a massive political impact. Maybe it will, because the binder did mysteriously go missing and the documents were never made public during the course of the Biden administration. So maybe there's something, maybe there are blockbusters in here, but I don't, and I suspect there's, like, genuinely very important information. I just don't think the public reacts to it in the same way. That people like me do.

[Sagar]

Yeah, I'm looking forward to. Anytime there's declassification, I'm good with it.

[Ryan]

And then we get to see what Kash Patel does with it.

[Sagar]

There you go.

[Adam]

Does this podcast make you happy? Of course it does. That's why you're here. But it only comes out once a week for happiness. Every night. You need Adam and Eve. Yes. I'm talking about sex toys. It's cool. It's cool. You have earbuds in, right? Adam and Eve, America's most trusted source for adult products, has been making people very happy for over 50 years with thousands of toys for both men and women. Just go to AdamAndEve.com now and enter code IHEART for 50% off. Almost any one item plus free discreet shipping. That's AdamAndEve.com, code IHEART for 50% OFF.

[Krystal]

You know, when the world gets a little crazy and everything is moving too fast, don't you just wish you could get away from all of it for a while? Well, that's exactly what the all new 2025 Nissan Murano can do for you. And to be clear, you don't even have to go anywhere. The Murano is the getaway. It was designed from the ground up to be a refuge from the daily grind. I mean, it has a Bose premium sound system which can play your favorite, most relaxing music. And there's nothing like a world class audio system to just transport you to a better headspace. Then there's the Murano's massaging leather appointed seats. Yeah, massaging seats. Talk about melting away your stress. So could getting stuck in traffic become your happy place? I don't know. It sounds like it could in the all new Murano. You should probably check one out for yourself. You gotta drive the all new 2025 Nissan Murano today. Bows and massaging leather appointed seats are optional features with the best all inclusive.

[Adam]

Vacation deals to Mexico and the Caribbean. Booking your getaway with cheap Caribbean vacations means you have more freedom to do your deal. Whether you want to enjoy snorkeling, endless margaritas and more, or simply soak up the sun and sand in a tropical paradise, Cheap Caribbean vacations has your deal for that. Plan and book the exact getaway you want at exactly the right price for you by using our exclusive budget beach finder. Or find a featured all inclusive package to Oasis Hotels and Resorts and do your [e-mail].

[Ryan]

Well, Representative Jasmine Crockett is apologizing for making this remark about Texas Governor Greg Abbott Obviously, he's a Republican. Take a listen and then we'll show you the apology.

[Adam]

We in these hot ass Texas streets, honey.

[Ryan]

Y'all know we got Governor Hot Wheels down there.

[Adam]

Come on now.

[Ryan]

And the only thing hot about him is that he is a hot ass mess, honey. So.

[Adam]

So, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Ryan]

Governor Hot Wheels is kind of funny. He's kind of funny. I think Greg Abbott should own it. He should roll with it. I did not mean to say that. I genuinely did not mean to say that. But he actually. He should put, like, he should start fundraising off of it, right?

[Sagar]

I'm sure he probably already is.

[Ryan]

He probably already is. It's. It's funny. It's fine. Jasmine Crockett then apologized. We can put this up on the screen. She was speaking there at a Human Rights Campaign event, and this is what she posted yesterday. I wasn't thinking about the governor's condition. I was thinking about the planes, trains and automobiles. This is such bullshit. He used to transfer migrants into communities led by black mayors, deliberately stoking tension and fear among the most vulnerable. Literally. The next line I said was that he was a hot ass mess, referencing his. His terrible policies. At no point did I mention or allude to his condition. So I'm even more appalled that the very people who unequivocally support Trump, a man known for racially insensitive nicknames and mocking those with disabilities, are now outraged. So Jasmine Crockett, who apologizes, kind of. Not really. I don't know if we can call that an apology, actually, now that I'm reading, was sort of taken as an apology by people because it's her. But what it actually is is her denying that she said anything about it. And now she's saying she's offended by people who are pretending to be offended. So I guess if she's not retracting the statement, then good for Jasmine Crockett.

[Sagar]

Because that was funny at the end. She's saying that. Why are you all offended when you say similar things about all kinds of marginalized people? Yet I wasn't saying that. Which is.

[Ryan]

It's amazing.

[Sagar]

Funny contradiction.

[Ryan]

It's a total. Yeah, that's quite a contradiction, actually.

[Sagar]

I think she should have just leaned all the way in to the last part of that.

[Ryan]

Exactly.

[Sagar]

It's like, who do you think you are to try to complain about me?

[Ryan]

100%.

[Sagar]

The number one thing you're excited about from Trump winning is that you're now allowed to say retard.

[Ryan]

Right?

[Sagar]

So that's the kind of middle School level cruelty that you're engaging in, and you're upset that I said Hot Wheels.

[Ryan]

Elon Musk has been tweeting that word, like, constantly. Which, again, her point about people who are now pretending to be offended is entirely valid. I mean, I personally can't stand Jasmine Crockett, but that's a perfectly legitimate point that she can make from a political perspective. Like, go for it now.

[Sagar]

I was offended as a consumer of comedy because I hate when people. Their punchline is based on something that they manufactured one second earlier. Her punchline, he's a hot mess, is based on a brand new moniker. Hot Ass Mess. Her brand new moniker of him as Governor Hot Wheels. So you just made the Governor Hot Wheels moniker, and then you're joking about it two seconds later. Your jokes are supposed to be about things other people say. So that's why I'm offended as a consumer of media, because I think it's. You're manufacturing the ability to make that punchline.

[Ryan]

And I think actually she should apologize. She should apologize for that.

[Sagar]

But as always, she delivers it in an entertaining way.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sagar]

So on the other hand, comedy is as it's received by the audience. The audience was laughing, therefore it's funny.

[Ryan]

I mean, she never apologized for whatever. I mean, her being sort of punted into the stratosphere was after the blonde, butch, built body, whatever the hell that was, which was also hilarious, by the way, in a sort of tragicomic way. But. But she didn't apologize for that. So I get why people interpret this as an apology, because she said, I wasn't thinking about the governor's condition. I was thinking about the planes, trains, and automobiles he used to transfer money. I get why people interpret it that way because she was very obviously talking about his condition. So she's clearly walking it back. But, man, she should have definitely just owned this and said, hey, it was a joke. Why are you so offended, Snowflake?

[Sagar]

Right. And there's nothing wrong with being in a wheelchair. It's just bombs.

[Ryan]

He should 100% be fundraising off of it. This is her brand. But if you're gonna. If you're gonna be, like, brash, you should tell people if they're. If they can't dish it out, then they. If they can't take it, then they should stop dishing it out.

[Sagar]

And I also think, seriously, that Crockett needs more. She needs to break out of the. She's too wrapped up in pure culture.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sagar]

And she's gonna miss the moment. She's gonna be able to, like, be a niche figure who's, like, very popular on msnbc. But if she's constantly retreating to, like, for instance, like, did she have to, like, where did this shoehorning in of the thing where there are black mayors?

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sagar]

Like, they're sending migrants to places with black mayors.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sagar]

They also send them to, like, what, Cape Cod or something? Yeah, probably a white mayor, I'm gonna guess. I haven't looked that up.

[Ryan]

But it's a Martha's Vineyard mayor.

[Sagar]

Martha's Vineyard mayor. I don't know.

[Adam]

We could be wrong.

[Sagar]

We absolutely could be wrong. There was that stretch where you had upstate New York represented by three black members of Congress. So it's possible. But the point is, what does Crockett. Why does she have to do that? How does that help her? And I think it's gonna put a ceiling on her ability to kind of reach a broader audience.

[Ryan]

Yep. Hard to disagree with that. Yeah. I mean, she's obviously charismatic, but her. She's too often distracts from her own substance. I think that's a good. In the way that you're saying there's actually. You don't have to shoehorn identity politics into absolutely everything.

[Sagar]

If it fits, go for it.

[Ryan]

Well, in fact, that's what I think Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio Cortez are currently testing out or showing the example of is that you can make these arguments without shoehorning these other arguments in to show some type of fealty or to be signaling constantly, like, hey, I'm on your team. I'm on your team. You just make the argument talk.

[Sagar]

If it was a white mayor, you'd be fine with it.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sagar]

Like what? It just ends up being confusing anyway.

[Ryan]

Yep. Yep. All right, well, Ryan, let's move on to our interview with the College Democrats.

[Sagar]

One thing that all Democrats seem to agree on is that they have a huge problem with young people nowadays. From my perspective, one of the problems they have is the kind of young people that they have representing them publicly. But who better to kind of try to walk us through the problem that they're having than the president and the vice president of the College Democrats. We have President Sunjay Murlatharn and Vice President Sohali Vadula. Thank you both for joining us. And maybe we'll figure this problem out. What do you guys think?

[Sharif]

Sounds great to me. Thank you so much for having us.

[Sagar]

All right, so there's a special election down in Texas that we want to get into to replace Sheila Jackson Lee, and I guess that's The Houston area. And we'll talk about that because there is a particularly cringe duo or trio running in that race that is going to be fun to go through. But first, Harry Sisson is kind of blowing up through some utterly bizarre scandal. We can put this first, this New York Post element up on the screen. DNC's favorite TikToker, Harry Sisson's accused of lying to women to get them to send nudes. Another problem seems to be the existence of a Harry Sisson for Democrats. So let's talk about this, like, even before the scandal. Yeah, before the scandal, let's talk about the problem of cringe and corruption among kind of the young influencer Dem class soon. Jaeger, like, why don't you start, like, how do we wind up in a place that the types of cringe folks that we see representing Gen Z have become kind of the face of the party in a way that I would suspect is probably a turn off to most young people and young men in particular.

[Sharif]

Yeah, I think I want to briefly just set the scene. So Holly and I, we oversee the College Democrats of America, which is effectively the largest Democratic leaning youth organization in the country. Our members are kind of like the grassroots foot soldiers of the party who are knocking on doors, sending out texts, kind of doing the grunt work that no one else likes to do, commonly for free. And I think that since we're doing all this hard work, it's imperative that we get proper representation. And kind of, as you mentioned, that simply is not the case. And I think the best way to contextualize this is that that there's two major dominant camps within the influencer, like the youth influencer space, I would say one which are the people who are the problem. They're simply power clients. Right. The reason why these people are propped up is because they say not what young people believe, but what people in power want young people to believe. Right. They'll follow whatever's politically expedient. They'll pretend to be Chuck Schumer or Joe Biden if it means that they'll be able to improve their careers. And I'm thinking of people like Harry Sisson, as you mentioned, Olivia Juliana and Isaiah Martin, which we'll get into later. Then the latter camp is kind of the camp that I'm more favorable to, who are individuals who represent the interests of Gen Z even when they're not politically expedient. I'm thinking of my good friend DNC Vice Chair David Hogg. Jack Cocchiarella, Hasan Piker are kind of the names that stick out. And what's really interesting is the latter three that I mentioned are actually more successful. David Hogg's DNC vice chair at 24. And that's because he actually was willing to be unapologetic sometimes. He might make mistakes here and there, but he actually cares about the cause at its root. Same with Jack Cocchiarella and Hasan Piker, who are both larger influencers who are growing, unlike the likes of Harry Sisson and Olivia Giuliana, who are both presently losing steam.

[Sagar]

And so, Holly, what does this propping up look like in practice? And have you seen it? Have you. Let's say you wanted to be come.

[Ryan]

Like, well, there was that whole influencer, like, room at the dnc. Remember, they had an influencer lounge. We weren't allowed into it.

[Sagar]

Right. But let's say you wanted to become a stooge for, like, the dnc. Like, how available is that to young people like yourself? And, like, what do they. What. What do they ask you to say? And then we're going to get into Olivia Giuliani and Isaiah, because I think it ends up becoming kind of clear.

[Emily]

I think propping up looks very similar to kind of how, like, the establishment is, like, given talking points and, like, lines to parrot. It's very similar to that. Olivia Giuliana, like, she went viral, she had a lot of followers, and the party decided to capitalize on that. And ever since then, she's not only been paid by the dnc, like, according to FEC records, she's also been paid by the Allred campaign in Texas to be, like, a youth outreach spokesperson. And so I think people are just trying to capitalize on the following that they have. Harry Sisson was making tiktoks long before the DNC hired him, and they just wanted to capitalize on that momentum. But the problem is not just them propping these people up, because obviously they should hire people with big followings.

[Sagar]

Right?

[Emily]

But the issue is that once they do so, these influencers are going to be monetized. And so their opinions are, like, pretty much bought and paid for from that point forward. And so we don't really know what these people are truly, like, trying to say or what they truly believe because they're just not authentic anymore. And you can see that so clearly because four years ago, I was one of Olivia Giuliano's biggest fans because she was very progressive and she was unapologetically, like, outspoken about things that she cared about. And, you know, lo and behold, fast forward a few years like now I don't really like her anymore, you know, because she does not stand for the same things that she did four years ago. Back in 2020, she propped up Joe Biden when literally everyone and their mom was calling on him to step down. It's pretty clear.

[Sagar]

Yeah. So let's roll. So Olivia Giuliana is now a campaign manager, whatever she is, for this other Gen Z, whatever you call them, candidate in this Texas race. So let's, let's roll. This, this Instagram clip that they posted to, you know, sort of get their campaign off the ground.

[Ryan]

Hey, guys, I'm here with my best friend Isaiah Martin, who's running for Congress. And ask someone who is on the.

[Adam]

Campaign team working day in and day.

[Ryan]

Out to make sure that he wins. I feel fantastic. Josh, how do you feel?

[Sagar]

How you feeling?

[Ryan]

Really good. Yeah?

[Sagar]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

This is a people focused, people powered campaign. We want this to be the most accessible congressional race in the country. We're going to be trying new digital and messaging strategies that no other campaign has done before. Isaiah doesn't feel entitled to your vote just because he's a Democrat, just because he's young.

[Adam]

You shouldn't have to support him for those things.

[Ryan]

We are going to be working to convince you and earn your trust and show you that he's not going to be a spectator in Congress. Congress. He's going to be a fighter. Because we need Democrats with the what? Isaiah?

[Sagar]

They're going to fight for you.

[Ryan]

He fucked it up.

[Adam]

Try again.

[Ryan]

We need Democrats with the what a fight. I just need to say, for the life of me, I do not know how this happened because this is what Republican millennial influencers were doing. When I was in college, it was the exact same level of cringe. And Dems were laughing their asses off at the Republican influencers. We didn't call them influencers at the time, but it is just unfathomable how.

[Sagar]

Quickly this switch, the bottom has just completely fallen out. And if anybody doesn't believe it after that. Let's roll. This is the campaign. It's a piece of the campaign ad that Isaiah Martin launched to get his campaign off the ground. It's like the more formal one. Let's roll. That Donald Trump's done nothing for you.

[Sharif]

Not for your family, not for your paychecks and not for your future. Wouldn't so long, long ago that he.

[Sagar]

Promised you zero dollar income taxes, a dollar and something for gas and two dollar eggs, but since he's been in.

[Sharif]

Office, you've got none of that prices are up and jobs are down.

[Sagar]

You're working harder than ever while Trump.

[Sharif]

And his friends get richer than ever. It's left you asking yourself the question of who's fighting for me?

[Sagar]

I mean, seriously, who's fighting for you? It's certainly not Donald Trump. It's not the.

[Sharif]

The Republicans that shake your hand and.

[Sagar]

Ask for your vote, then do nothing for you.

[Sharif]

You see, they want you distracted. They want you angry at your neighbors.

[Sagar]

So you don't pay attention to what they're really doing.

[Sharif]

Because if you see them for what they are, you know that Trump's America.

[Sagar]

Doesn'T work for you.

[Sharif]

Things are bad right now. You know that, and I know that they're throwing everything at you. So now's the time to be bold and fight fire with fire. You see, I believe in a Democratic.

[Sagar]

Party that has a spine, a party.

[Sharif]

That stands for something, a party that fights back. Because, after all, we're the party that.

[Sagar]

Won World War II.

[Sharif]

We're the party that gave you Social Security. We're the party that's built the strongest economies in the history of mankind.

[Sagar]

Okay, so he's gonna stand up for. He's gonna fight fire with fire. The guy with a spine. So he's fighting Nazis. What is the fire? Can you tell us what his campaign is articulating? It will do in office. What are the policy positions that Isaiah Martin's campaign is running on?

[Sharif]

So, so many. You can see them all listed on his website, where he has a whopping zero policy mentioned, which to me is just crazy. I don't think you can claim that you have a spine and then run a campaign and with no policies. But I think the best way to look at this is to see what information is public about Isaiah. Right? And to put it simply, there's no policy or priorities on his website. But when you Google his name on FEC records, you can see that in his past congressional campaign. For those of you who don't know, he's run for the seat before, and it shows that he spent a whopping $12,000 on United Airlines flight tickets. Now, I don't know. I've never run for Congress before, but I don't think you need to fly from one end of your district to the other end and spend thousands upon thousands upon thousands of dollars for it. So, to me, what I think the priority of this campaign is, you know, kind of pretending to care about youth issues, kind of casting the same old age, old playbook that doesn't work and sprinkling a youth fail on it. Kind of representing Gen Z in a way that simply doesn't represent that. And I think to me, this, I mean, as someone who's like, you know, democratically elected by college students across the country, I think that when you say you have a spy and you have to back it up, you know, Sahali and I were part of the administration and College Democrats of America that spoke out against Biden's policies in Israel because we felt that it was going to hurt him in the election cycle. And that's what happened. And honestly, I hate to say it.

[Sagar]

But we were right.

[Sharif]

So I think that this, simply put, this is just regurgitation of the playbook of Schumer, Biden people in the past trying to pretend that it's new and novel with someone who happens to be a member of Gen Z. Yeah.

[Sagar]

And so, Holly, I've seen you criticize Isaiah Martin's campaign for maybe he hasn't said in this campaign because he hasn't articulated any kind of policy ideas yet other than defending Social Security, but he has been pretty vocally supportive of Israel's assault. So what, like, where does that stand when it comes to kind of an articulation of a Gen Z approach to politics?

[Emily]

I think Gen Z just cares a lot more, like, about the world. And I think that when it comes to these human rights violations, we are outspoken about it. Like, we're unapologetically going to say what we think. And what we think is, well, you know, while most of Gen Z is out on the streets protesting about these war crimes that our government is implicit in, Isaiah Martin's out here villainizing, like, student protesters that are, for the most part, very peaceful. And I think that is just a huge turnoff because at the end of the day, like, you know, Gaza was a big issue and the reason the Democrats lost so many voters election cycle, especially young people. And it's not because we voted for Trump. It's actually because a lot of us stayed home. And if people don't realize that and don't learn from their mistakes, like, we're not going to win. And Isaiah Martin is most definitely not going to be representing Gen Z very accurately if he's going to go by that playbook. Because he's not Biden, he's not Schumer. Right. Like, he's 27. Like, like he has a lot of potential. He could really use this moment to do a lot for young people if he did it right. But he's not. And if you look at his video, you can see that, like, there's no substance in there. He just said Trump bad the entire time. I don't really know what it means to have a spine for him.

[Ryan]

And speaking of Chuck Schumer, we've seen Alexandria Ocasio Cortez tag along with Bernie Sanders in the aftermath of Chuck Schumer's decision not to shut down the government. We've seen Democrats flooding Republican districts and going to their town halls, I think very effectively. So I'm curious for both your perspectives as to whether that maybe feels like it's opening things up a little bit that, you know, Democrats nationally, the Democratic Party leadership is more open to at least maybe indulging the populist rhetoric and allowing people to, or maybe, I guess, let's put it this way, understanding the political value of the more populist rhetoric of sort of pushing back on the establishment. There was that poll, what was this last week or the week before Ryan, that found Democratic Party voters actually upset with the party at levels that are historically have historically not been seen recently. So are you guys sensing, I mean, you guys would be in a position to sort of get a sense, do you think that's opening things up 100%?

[Sharif]

I think just to kind of contextualize Sohali and I as VP and president of House Democrats of America, we are one of the 448 DNC members which has two major powers, one being superdelegates and two, being able to cast a vote in officer election. And I'm going to be honest, I'm very positive kind of about where the direction that this officer team has taken us with, largely because it's a major shift from, I think, the kind of corporate esque attitude that we're used to. Ken Martin, who leads the DNC now, is someone who comes from a union background and he's from Minnesota, the state that produced Tim Wallace, that is one of the most progressive states in the country despite having such a slim majority. But it's not just him. You also have DNC Vice chair David Hogg, someone who's built a career off running young people for positions of power. You have state senator or state assemblyman Malcolm Kenyatta, who was the person who primaried John Fetterman. That guy is sitting in a DNC vice chair seat. You have Artie Blanco, who's a DNC vice chair, who's in charge of the political wing of the AFL cio, another union person, and Shasti Conrad sitting on an associate chair seat who is one of the most progressive state chairs in the country. So I think that this new board is very different from what we're used to and kind of they're a lot more open to kind of indulging the ideas that Solly and I have of like, hey, what if in order to turn out Gen Z, you actually represent Gen Z? And I think that they understand that a lot better than the leadership that was in power prior to the time that I served as College Democrats of America president.

[Sagar]

Well, soon Jay Sohali fighting an uphill battle to make the Democratic Party a less awful institution. But we applaud your civic efforts. Thank you so much for joining us. Hopefully we've figured out this form over substance problem that Democrats seem to have with Gen Z.

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[Sagar]

Shabbat was deliberately targeted and assassinated yesterday in northern Gaza. Sharif Abdel Kaddus was his editor at Dropsite News. He joins us now to talk about Hossam's life and his death. Sharif, thank you for joining us.

[Hossam]

Thanks for having me.

[Sagar]

So can you talk a little bit about who Hassam was?

[Hossam]

Yeah. Hossam was a young journalist, 23 years old, who grew up in Bit Hanun, which is on the northeastern edge of Gaza. He was a correspondent for Al Jazeera Mobjir and he quickly became the face on television for millions of people around the Arab world because he was one of the few journalists in Gaza who remained in the north throughout the 17 months of Israel's genocidal assault. He received many threats along with his colleagues, especially another Al Jazeera correspondent, Anastas Sharif, directly from the Israeli military, telling them that they had to displace to the south because in the north was where at certain periods where Israel really concentrated its extermination campaign, especially in October of last year in the north of Gaza. And it was only people like Hossam and Aster Sharif and other journalists that we really understood what was happening on the ground. And throughout these 17 months, Hussein, he witnessed the unimaginable death and suffering almost every single day. He was displaced over 20 times. He said that he couldn't sleep, he was exhausted. He was often very hungry as Israel imposed forced starvation, especially in the north, north. And he buried many of his colleagues and his friends over this period. And despite that, he was determined to continue to cover the genocide of his own people and would file reports almost every single day. He was very active on social media as well. And in October he was put on a list of six journalists all in the north, all working for Al Jazeera. Sorry, not all of them working for Al Jazeera, but six journalists. The Israeli military deemed them as militants and put out a list and it was essentially a hit list. And we saw the spokesperson for the Israeli military spokesperson in Arabic. His name is Avisheh Adrai, posting videos of himself speaking, calling out Hussein, calling out Anastas Sharif by name and basically saying that you terrorists were going to get you. And this was in October, and Hossam is the first of the six to be killed. He was bombed while driving in his car in Beit Lahia. Just an hour earlier, Israel had killed another journalist, Mohammed Mansour of Palestine. Today, Hossam's last social media post was about Muhammad saying that another journalist had been martyred and then he was killed. I know it's a very tragic loss and his voice will be missed. And Hossam, you know, he wrote a letter to be published in the event of his death. He knew he was going to probably be killed. And it opens with him saying, if you're reading this, I most probably have been. If you're reading this, I've been killed most probably by the Israeli occupation forces. And his colleagues and friends published that letter yesterday.

[Ryan]

Do you have any favorite memories or stories that stand out just from editing him over the course of this impossible duty that he felt he had to cover the war?

[Hossam]

I mean, he was a very warm and kind person. When I asked him his age at one point, I think for the second article I was editing and I was writing a preamble for him, he wrote, Hahaha, I'm 24. And then he said, actually, I haven't even turned 24. I'm 23. I'm really young, right? And I said, I told him, you know, you're young in age, but in experience. You have a lot of experience. But then he said, you know, I'm so tired, I'm so tired, but I'm going to keep doing this. But you know, like our last interaction, which was a few hours before he was killed, he reached out to me and he said, habibi, I miss you. I checked in on him, how are you doing in Jabalya? He said, things are tough. He filed his piece and then he asked me, when is it going to come out? So I said, hossam, I still need to translate it, we need to edit it. I'll get it out for you tomorrow morning. This was Sunday night New York time, which would have been like 5am his time. So he said, I want to get it out urgently. I'm going to. Can I publish it in Arabic? I said, okay, Hossam, if you want to publish parts of it in Arabic, that's fine, but leave us something for dropsite, that's extra. And then he was like, I'm joking, I'm joking, I'll give it all to you. So that was kind of his yeah, his attitude. But he also was like, very, very determined to. He did want to have his writing out. He was very enthusiastic about reporting for Dropsite, for having another outlet, for working in print, for having his work translated. And it was my honor to be a part of that. And, yeah, he was killed hours later. And it was very, very shocking because I was just in touch with him and, you know, I woke up and I sent some more follow up questions for the piece. And what haunts me is, I think, you know, was that message that I was sending was this phone going off in his pocket as he was lying on the floor dead or dying? These things haunt me. But I try to remember his work and his dedication and his contribution to the Palestinian cause.

[Sagar]

You've talked about how in December, I think it was in December where he was talking about hitting his limit almost that. Talking about how much he hated what he was doing and just banging his head against the wall and screaming into a void to a world that isn't listening. At the same time, his final letter to the world is don't give up. And to his dying day, he was continuing to fight, continuing to write, continuing to report. And I was also thinking about how Israel's decision to kill him, to assassinate him, in some ways undercuts the idea that what he was doing wasn't having an effect. Why would one of the most powerful militaries in the world feel the need to assassinate an unarmed journalist if the words he was writing and what, what he was sharing on social media actually didn't have any effect? So even though as we sit here, we see things getting worse and worse and worse, and let's talk in a moment about conditions on the ground there, at least from the perspective of the Israelis, that journalism does still remain to be a threat. How do you answer these questions as you go through a life that sometimes seems pointless but clearly can't be if it's such a threat?

[Hossam]

Yeah, I mean, those comments in December, obviously, like anyone, he would swing between determination and despair. When I messaged him in December to check in on him, it was after five journalists were killed in a single airstrike on their vehicle. I think it was Christmas Day. So I just checked in on him and he said, you know, I hate this world. No one is doing anything. Our job is only to die. When I speak with my colleagues now, we just speak about whose turn is it next. So I think there's deep frustration at the silence of the world. And we can talk about the silence of Western media institutions, about people Like Hossein and The more than 200 journalists who have been killed, there isn't the level of outrage that there should be. And people like Hossam would still be alive if there was. I truly do believe that that. But Hussein was effective. He was covering things where no one was. The first piece he filed for us was this searing account of the forced displacement of Bit Lahia during was essentially an extermination campaign in the very north of Gaza in October, November of last year. And he was one of the very few people that was there seeing people coming out. He wasn't physically there because I don't think anyone could survive, but he was right on the outskirts seeing people come out, and he filed this story. And so, yeah, I mean, the Israeli military very explicitly did not want journalists there. They kept telling them, threatening them, go to the south, stop, don't report from here. And then eventually put them on this list. And Then yesterday, the IDF's official Twitter account celebrates the killing of Hossein, says, he was not a journalist, he was a terrorist. Don't let the press vest fool you. And then Aviche Adrai, that despicable spokesperson in Arabic for the Israeli military, is celebrating his killing. He's put out a video of himself speaking, saying again, Hossein wasn't a journalist, he was a terrorist. Once again posting these documents, they said that they discovered showing Hossein was actually a militant in the Beit Hanun battalion of Hamas. This is the same military and the same guy who have justified the killing of doctors, of UN workers, of children. They often release these documents purporting to show that they have proof that these journalists are not journalists. In July of last year, the Israeli military killed an Al Jazeera journalist, Ismail Al Ghul, who's actually a very, very close friend of Hussem's, decapitated him in the airstrike. It also killed his cameraman, Romild Rifi. Then the Israeli military released a document. It said it supported claims that Ismail received a military ranking from Hamas in 2007 when he was 10 years old. This is how ridiculous their alleged claims are. And it's shameful that both the United States and Western media institutions have not spoken out against the killing of over 200 journalists. We knew very, very early on that Israel was doing something different in targeting the press this time. In the first 10 weeks of the war, more journalists were killed in Gaza than had been killed in any country over an entire year, according to cpj. So we knew that there was something different happening here. And there was not the outrage by legacy media institutions in this country around this. And this allows for this killing to continue. And it's not only continuing, it's getting worse. Before they would deny they killed the journalists or say it was collateral damage that, that they were trying to get a Hamas melted and the journalist was unfortunate consequence of the bombing, or they would kill the journalists and then like Ismail Al Ghul say afterwards that they were militant and now they're openly just hunting them, saying, oh, these ones are journalists and we're going to. These ones are not journalists and we're going to kill them. So this has been allowed to happen.

[Sagar]

And with the flimsiest of evidence, one of the documents that you referenced claims that he took part in some battalion training in 2019 when he would have been, you know, 16 or 17 years old. Which, like, even in a fantasy land where we just completely accept every document that they put forward, even if it were true that there was some high school training program, nobody would argue that Barack Ravid or any other Israeli journalists who served time in the reserves years earlier should be killed while on camera. And the other point on the question of whether or not he was a journalist, he has been doing journalism every day since October 7th and before, but since then. And so every single day, we have the evidence of what he is doing because he is doing it publicly, live, streaming when possible, posting to social media, writing pieces. At what point did he manage to create this secret life? And it's like, of course, when you start to think about it, it all completely crumbles. And the hope among the propagandists is that nobody will think about it because you're like, you wouldn't be a terrorist and then just be on television all day. That would be a completely.

[Hossam]

And I think also what's more saddening in a way is that no one's even paying attention, that it's not being discussed whether he was a journalist or a terrorist or a militant. And whether the Israeli claims are true or not, it's just he's killed and it's just normal. It's normal state of affairs. The way it's been normalized, that Israel, as it did a few days ago, can bomb a hospital, the biggest hospital, that's become normal. That the way they can kill over 200 children in a matter of hours, and it isn't this massive outrage around the world. These things have become normalized and it's allowing the killing to continue.

[Sagar]

And for the audience who doesn't know, Sharif played a lead role in a documentary about the killing of Shereen Abu Aklet. And it's painful to think that, but things were better then when Israel was at least starting out by denying their role and the world cared. The world wanted to find out what happened. Now they're forecasting what they're going to do, doing it, and nobody cares.

[Ryan]

Sharif, we can roll this clip. It's a voiceover clip of Hasam's mother. People who are watching this can see it on the screen. But I imagine even as it feels as though people in the United States are sort of tuned out and maybe numb at best, this in Gaza, this is playing out very differently. I imagine the reaction on the ground with people that you guys have talked to, your sources is mourning and not shock because Hasan himself seemed to expect that this would happen at some point. But I'm sure it's. It's hit people very hard.

[Hossam]

Absolutely. You know, Hossam told me at one point he could, he said, you know, I haven't seen my family for well over a year because they all displaced to the south. He was, in January or early February, he was reunited with his mother for the first time in 492 days. He hadn't seen her. This is a very moving video of them hugging. Excuse me. Yeah, he has several siblings. You know, after a few hours after his death, I got a notification, my phone from his WhatsApp, which was very shocking because that's the way I communicate with him. And I was just trying to process that he died. And I got a message saying, God have mercy on him. And I wrote back, God have mercy on him. Who's this? And he said, it's his brother, Wissam. I sent him a long voice note saying how much Hossam meant to drop site news and to me and how important his work was. And the brother was very appreciative of that. But no, Qasem was. As many of these journalists are, they're kind of heroes in Gaza. At the beginning of the so called ceasefire in January, when the actual bombs stopped raining down and there was some kind of reprieve, many of them were hoisted onto the shoulders of people. There's video of Hossam being hoisted onto, to the shoulders of just people in the north celebrating him and his work. And we saw scenes of his funeral yesterday being carried and with his press vest on him to honor his work. So, yeah, I'm beside myself about it and angry as well.

[Sagar]

And since March 2, which predates the complete collapse of the ceasefire, the destruction of the ceasefire by Israel. Israel had reinstituted the complete siege. And nothing has been able to get in to Gaza since March 2. There were protests. We can roll a little bit of that clip there yesterday, which Western media was seizing on some expressions of anti Hamas sentiment at some of these protests. There may be some more scheduled today. You hear a lot of people saying, end the siege and end the war. The signs talking about the, you know, ending the occupation. What are you understanding are conditions now three weeks into the complete shutoff of supplies getting into nearly 2 million people.

[Hossam]

I mean, people are. This is reimposed for starvation again. As you know, one of our own contributors, Abu Bakr Abad, is suffering from malnutrition. Now. He's 22 years old. He messaged me the other day. His body's aching. He's in deep pain. He's exhausted. He kind of can't get out of bed really well. He needs galvanized multivitamins and other things. Speaking to doctors that we know, some American doctors and, and Palestinian doctors who are on the ground there seeing if we can get them anything, and they hardly have any supplies. Two doctors, American doctors yesterday who work at Nasser Hospital and were there when it was bombed by the Israelis a few days ago, said that the hospital is going to last another week. And without any more supplies, that they just really can't function. So it's on top of a very much escalated bombing campaign. The Ministry of Health this morning put out statistics on just since last week, since last Tuesday when this re escalation of the aerial Bombardment began. There's 830 people have been killed already, and among them is over 300 children, 320 children have been killed. So there's bombing happening. There's a complete siege. There's also forced evacuation or forced displacement orders happening all around. They happened first in Bethun, where Hossam was originally from. They're happening in Bitlahia, in parts of eastern Khan Younis. Today, there was displacement orders for parts of Gaza City. And I think something like Unra said over the past week, 130,000 Palestinians have been redisplaced already. This seems like it. It's laying the groundwork for another massive ground incursion by Israeli ground troops. So the situation is terrible. And there's also some sort of fatigue of people. I just don't feel the same kind of outrage of people here in this country around what's happening. There's a lot that they're dealing with, with Trump and Musk and people being deported and. But I feel like The Israelis seem to have a green light now. They did their few weeks of a so called ceasefire and now they're just going to come in and finish off what they haven't. So it's very terrifying. And I can't even imagine, for example, the five other journalists that were put on that hit list, what they must be feeling after Hossam was killed and they're celebrating his death. Can you imagine what it must be like?

[Sagar]

Right? Especially drones, like drones constantly flying over top, knowing that the people who operate those drones have promised that they're going to kill you. Like what must it be like to drive around, walk around, not just for yourself. You know, Hossam's best friend was killed alongside him. You probably feel some radioactivity around others. You go to visit your. Go to visit your family. You wonder if you're putting your family at risk just by example.

[Hossam]

You know, I was in touch with another Dropside contributor yesterday, Rasha Abu Jalel, who is in Gaza City. She went there, back there after the ceasefire. She almost died last week when the Israelis bombed the house right next to her, bombed her neighbors and the wall collapsed on the room where she usually sleeps with her husband and five children. But they were in another room because it was warmer. So they miraculously survived. She's saying that people are being, all these people who are being displaced, they're mostly coming to that area of Gaza City that she's in. And there's literally nothing to no shelter. So there's just rubble. They don't even have tents or makeshift tarps. They're just literally like on the rubble. She said people are starving to the degree that she saw a family go out to the beach and they caught a turtle and ate it. So, you know, and she. It's just almost kind of unimaginable what's happening. And it's just escalating and escalating and the world is just watching as it's happening.

[Sagar]

Yeah. Yes, indeed. Sharif, thank you so much for joining us. Deeply appreciate it.

[Hossam]

Thank you for having me.

[Adam]

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[Krystal]

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[Sagar]

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[Ryan]

Shout out to producer Griffin because we are covering the Snow White story. Not due to Maya and Ryan's deep devotion to Snow White and Disney. But you know what, there's actually some interesting stuff going on here. So let's get into it. We can put G1 up on the screen. This is a post from Variety which says, quote, after Rachel Ziegel Ziegler hit the Stage at Disney's D23 fan event to introduce the first official trailer of Snow White, she thanked supporters effusively in an ex post. One minute later, she added an afterthought in the same thread, quote, and always remember free Palestine. So that was what Ziegler posted. And Variety goes on to report, many inside the studio expressed shock that she would commingle the promotion of its $270 million tentpole with any kind of political statement. The Film's producer flew to New York to speak with her. But Ziegler stood her ground and the post remained. Now we can put G2 up on the screen because it's going to get even more interesting if you haven't been following this quote, behind the scenes. This is from 60 Minutes. Death threats towards Ziegler's co star Gal Gadot, who is Israeli, spiked and Disney had to pay for additional security for the mother of four. Quote, she didn't understand the repercussions of her actions as far as what that meant for the film, for Gal, for anyone. So sorry, that's not actually from 60 Minutes. That's also from the Variety piece. So that's. Variety has like a kind of tick tock of what was happening behind the scenes. Not surprising at all that this is what's happening behind the scenes of Disney. But before we get into it even more, Ryan, I just want to say the Semaphore newsletter had an interesting tidbit about this. They said, as many people know, this movie is not doing very well at the box office compared to the amount of money that was poured into it despite a soft weekend opening. Semaphore wrote in its newsletter a couple of days ago, the political backlash isn't what seemed to hurt the movie's performance because Snow White overperformed in Republican leaning areas and did well among Latino and Hispanic audiences. So I mean, that doesn't quite rebut the point about whether all of this Politico political fiasco had anything to do with why it had a, quote, soft weekend opening. It is getting absolutely trashed by critics, not like conservative critics. It is getting slammed across the board for being terrible. But it does. I mean, I think overperforming Republican leaning areas tells you that it's probably not the politics that's ultimately the biggest albatross for the Snow White film.

[Sagar]

Yeah, and I would hope that nobody would even think that it's like, come on, like her tweeting free Palestine is not going, you know, to months later, you know, really damaged. I think the box office. Whether or not, whether or not the movie is any good is really what's. What's going to drive it in the end. We could put up G4 if we have a minute here. So this is Mark Platt. This is about the kind of pressure on people inside Hollywood not to kind of speak up, up on. On behalf of, of Palestine. Here's, here's Mark Platt. This is him talking kind of about the Wicked cast. Several members of the Wicked cast have been active at least online in their opposition to Israel.

[Sharif]

Artists for a ceasefire. As someone who cares so much about your professional relationships and the product you're making on set, how do you navigate that?

[Sagar]

I talk to people and I think people are told that something is about something in a very reductive way. And it feels like, who doesn't care about innocent tragedy, innocent civilians? No decent human being wants any suffering in humanity from decent people. What happens in instances as individuals ascribe their names to something where they're not being completely informed and the messaging to them is they're suffering here.

[Hossam]

Right.

[Sagar]

We have to speak out for suffering. The message doesn't include there's also suffering over here, or there's suffering that was prompted or instigated by an act of terror or an act of evil, or there's a terrorist group in place that wishes for the annihilation of a whole group of people that gets left out of the conversation. And so my way of dealing is, when the moment is right, is to have that conversation where it can be heard and where what I'm saying can be heard, not in the midst of anger, where it can be heard and processed and therefore understood. And I feel good about those conversations that have been had. Right. And so according to Variety, Platt had made that same pitch to her say, hey, you really don't understand that. Actually, I guess, you know, they're all asking for it and we can. And she did not. She declined to take it down.

[Ryan]

We could put G3 on the screen as well. This is an interesting point. The writer of the article on the. Of the Variety piece, familiar byline to people who follow Hollywood News was Tatiana Siegel. Also, as this user on X points out, made the hit pieces against Melissa Barrera and Amber Heard. So very Inside Hollywood type of analysis there. But still fairly interesting because the. Your point about the pressures from a company like Disney Massive Corporation, which has millions and millions of dollars on the line with this movie. You know, this is one of the more interesting, I think, cauldrons of political pressures. Because Snow White, one of the reasons that it just, I mean, I haven't seen it. Your kids saw it, right? They like it. That's fine. Yeah. I mean, one of the reasons, I think it's. And critics have pointed this out, one of the reasons it's struggling is that Disney had. They were sort of excited about this movie in an era before the quote, unquote, vibe shift after Trump wins the election. And some of their movies that they had kind of intentionally framed to be. I don't want to say the word woke because I don't think that's right, but sort of signaling or gesturing at like the progressive cultural worldview. They were really excited about those projects, put a lot of money into them and they mostly haven't done well. They haven't been great products. And again that's because you have a corporation attempting to latch on to this progressive messaging. And so it's incredibly confused because they don't really buy the sort of progressive class critique, but they can easily buy, you've written about this, they can easily buy the identity critique where it as the skin suit and you know, type of. And start promoting these types of things. And so it ends up making a. For a really confused product at the end of the day. Like this one. They took the Dwarves out. Like they literally edited the Dwarves out of the Snow Whites movie because Peter Dinklage and others complained in the era of, I guess people will call it like peak Woke, capital P, capital W that it was insensitive to cast actual people in that role. So they ended up using CGI and that the effect of that on the movie has to be devastating. Like just that in and of itself. To take the live action human beings out of it and replace them with CGI had to have been insane.

[Sagar]

And in a related scandal, and we can put this up in post, Yesterday we covered the assault on Bilal Hamdan, the co director, Alhamdul Bilal, the co director of no Other Land, by a group of settlers in Israel. So this is, you know, just weeks ago, he wins an Oscar, goes back to the west bank where he gets assaulted. The Israeli security forces pick him up after this assault. Yuval Abraham, who was his co director, journalist, Jewish Israeli journalist at 972 who also won an Oscar and appeared with him on the stage. Posted this morning, he wrote, sadly, the US Academy, which awarded us an Oscar three weeks ago, declined to publicly support Hamdan Bilal while he was beaten and tortured by Israeli soldiers and settlers. The European Academy voiced support, as did countless other award groups and fellowship festivals. Several U.S. academy members, especially in the documentary branch, pushed for a statement, but it was ultimately refused. We were told that because other Palestinians were beaten up in the settler attack, it could be considered unrelated to the film, so they felt no need to respond. In other words, while Hamdan was clearly targeted for making no Other Land parentheses he recalled soldiers joking about the Oscar as they tortured him, he was also targeted for being Palestinian. Like countless others every day who are disregarded. This, it seems, gave the Academy an Excuse to remain silent when a filmmaker they honored living under Israeli occupation needed them the most. It's not too late to change this stance. Even now, issuing a statement condemning the attack on Hamdan and the Massafar Yahta community would send a meaningful message and serve as a deterrent for the future. That's Yuval Abraham talking about the politics in the industry that we're talking about here.

[Ryan]

I have an optimistic take on this, which is that the public backlash to the era of what felt like sort of stifling, especially to a lot of people, even a lot of people who are on the left. We talk to people who work in the entertainment industry. It seems like the public backlash to that may actually benefit everyone in just a much freer, more open environment in general. Like, I was at Yale last night doing a debate, and it just was remarkable to me. I graduated from college only 10 years ago. The way that they talk about politics is so much more liberated than the way especially people on the left talked about politics when I was there. It just.

[Sagar]

How so? What do you mean?

[Ryan]

They just. They would ask questions. We did a dinner beforehand and they were asking questions to me and to the other speaker that people would have been couching with if it were 2012. Some people think this, and I'm not saying I necessarily agree with it, but it's just like everyone could speak freely for the most part, and nobody said anything offensive, obviously, but asking legitimate questions. I don't know if you've noticed this. Actually, it would be interesting for an elephant in the zoom follow up. I feel like. Like there's just generally people are taking a breath and I feel like that's good for everyone.

[Sagar]

There's sort of. Yeah, there's some elements that are still completely dug in. Hasn't gotten there yet, but we'll see. Still fighting it out in some of these Pacific islands.

[Ryan]

Well, we'll see what happens. But anyway, Disney, what a company. What a time. This was fun.

[Sagar]

We'll see the film and report back. No, maybe I'll get my twins on. They can do a review.

[Ryan]

Actually, that's a great idea. So, Ryan, you're back here tomorrow.

[Sagar]

Back here tomorrow. And then in that seat.

[Ryan]

In this seat. Oh, that's right.

[Sagar]

It's always.

[Ryan]

Yeah, Crystal's out this week, so I don't know if we'll be here on Friday, but.

[Sagar]

Oh, that's right. We'll have to organize it ourselves.

[Ryan]

Oh, my gosh. We'll take going around.

[Sagar]

We'll do that for you. Yes, right. You're around Friday.

[Ryan]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Sagar]

Okay, well, we'll do that for you.

[Ryan]

Cool.

[Sagar]

In honor of Crystal.

[Ryan]

Cool.

[Sagar]

Well, maybe she'll be able to join.

[Ryan]

Maybe. Maybe you can bank up also complaints against Saga that you can sort of air your grievances on Friday. After a week of soccer, we can just do that.

[Sagar]

So far, so good.

[Ryan]

Many such cases.

[Sagar]

All right, well, see you guys then.

[Ryan]

Thanks, everyone, for tuning in. Yeah, we'll see you guys then.

[Adam]

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[Krystal]

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[Adam]

Does this podcast make you happy? Of course it does. That's why you're here. But it only comes out once a week. For happiness. Every night. You need Adam and Eve. Yes. I'm talking about sex toys. It's cool. It's cool. You have earbuds in, right? Adam and Eve, America's most trusted source for adult products, has been making very happy for over 50 years with thousands of toys for both men and women. Just go to AdamAndEve.com now and enter code IHEART for 50% off. Almost any one item, plus free discreet shipping. That's AdamAndEve.com code IHEART for 50% OFF.