3/27/25: Full Signal Chat Leaks, Portnoy Demands Waltz Resign, Dems Flip Trump District In PA

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar: Episode Summary (March 27, 2025)

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar, hosted by Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti, delves into the pressing political controversies and electoral shifts shaping the American landscape. In the March 27, 2025 episode titled "Full Signal Chat Leaks, Portnoy Demands Waltz Resign, Dems Flip Trump District In PA," the hosts provide a comprehensive analysis of recent scandals, election outcomes, and their broader implications for the upcoming midterms.

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1. Signal Chat Leaks and the Mike Waltz Scandal

The episode kicks off with an in-depth discussion on the Signalgate scandal, involving leaked text messages from a secure group chat within the Trump administration. The leaks have exposed internal deliberations and raised significant questions about operational security and the legality of certain military actions.

Key Points:

• Leak Details: The group chat included high-ranking officials like Senator Michael Waltz and journalist Jeffrey Goldberg. The leaks revealed discussions about military strikes against the Houthis, including specific targets and timing.

• Constitutional Concerns: Krystal emphasizes the constitutional implications, highlighting that the texts "admitting there's no rush" contradict the need for congressional authorization under the War Powers Act (07:00).

• Operational Security Failures: Saagar criticizes the administration's handling of classified information, pointing out the absurdity of claiming that operational details were not classified. He states, "This level of retardation is honestly just too much for me." (07:00).

Notable Quotes:

• Krystal Ball: "Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show." (02:29)

• Saagar Enjeti: "I cannot stomach this level of stupidity. You cannot...” (07:15)

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2. Political Fallout in Washington

The Signal chat leaks have ignited a firestorm in Washington, leading to increased scrutiny of Republican officials and the Trump administration's decision-making processes.

Key Points:

• Congressional Hearings: The leaks have set the stage for potentially explosive congressional hearings, reminiscent of the Lewinsky scandal. Both Krystal and Saagar anticipate prolonged and damaging hearings for those involved.

• Public Outcry and Media Reaction: The public and media have reacted intensely, with widespread memes and jokes amplifying the scandal's visibility. Saagar remarks, "This has entered the zeitgeist." (28:18)

• Administration's Defense: Officials argue that the leaked information did not contain classified details, a stance both hosts vehemently dispute.

Notable Quotes:

• Ryan Grim: "We never got congressional authorization for war. Therefore, it's not a war." (12:16)

• Saagar Enjeti: "It's too much. The best actual response here has been from Secretary Rubio. He's like, look, someone made a big mistake." (22:36)

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3. Dems Flip Trump District in Pennsylvania

A significant electoral upset is highlighted with Democrats flipping a traditionally Republican state senate seat in Pennsylvania, signaling potential shifts for the upcoming midterm elections.

Key Points:

• Election Outcome: Democrat James Malone narrowly defeated the Republican candidate in a deep-red district, historically held by Republicans since 1979.

• Implications for Midterms: This flip suggests that Democratic grassroots organizing and voter mobilization efforts, particularly in areas like Lancaster County, could influence broader electoral trends.

• Voter Registration and Turnout: The hosts discuss the impact of voter registration drives and early ballot casting, noting a 48% increase in early ballots compared to two years prior (50:09).

Notable Quotes:

• Saagar Enjeti: "There is no safe seat or there's no place that is not available to run." (50:09)

• Ryan Grim: "It's a big test case of Elon [Musk] because there's still a lot of question over how much influence Elon actually had on the Pennsylvania results." (55:01)

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4. Protests in Gaza and U.S. Arrests of Pro-Palestinian Students

The episode also touches on international and domestic issues, including ongoing protests in Gaza and the arrests of pro-Palestinian foreign students in the United States.

Key Points:

• Gaza Protests: Krystal and Saagar discuss the nature of the protests, debating whether they are directed against Hamas or the Israeli military actions.

• Arrests in the U.S.: The hosts provide updates on the continued arrests of pro-Palestinian foreign students, exploring the motivations behind these actions and their impact on international relations.

Notable Quotes:

• Sagar Enjeti: "Whether it's against Hamas or the Israeli military campaign, Ryan's gonna break that down for us." (05:04)

• Krystal Ball: "They have nothing to say." (43:44)

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5. Analysis of Media and Public Perception

Krystal and Saagar critically analyze how media narratives, particularly from outlets like The Atlantic and journalists like Jeffrey Goldberg, influence public perception and political accountability.

Key Points:

• Media Accountability: The hosts argue that media outlets have inadvertently increased their subscriptions and visibility through the Signalgate scandal, even as they attempt to deflect criticism.

• Public Trust: They express skepticism about the administration's handling of the leaks and the media's role in perpetuating certain narratives to maintain their audience base.

Notable Quotes:

• Saagar Enjeti: "This insults the intelligence of all good people." (26:28)

• Ryan Grim: "This legit implies that he [Goldberg] is protecting Waltz to some degree." (32:25)

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6. Future Implications and Closing Thoughts

In wrapping up the episode, Krystal and Saagar reflect on the broader implications of the discussed events for American politics, media integrity, and electoral strategies moving forward.

Key Points:

• Midterm Predictions: They anticipate that the Signal chat leaks will have lasting effects on voter behavior and congressional dynamics during the midterms.

• Media's Role: The duo underscores the critical role of independent media in holding power accountable, despite facing its own set of challenges and biases.

Notable Quotes:

• Krystal Ball: "Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election..." (02:29)

• Saagar Enjeti: "This is the most viral story of the Trump administration." (28:12)

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Conclusion

This episode of Breaking Points meticulously dissects a multifaceted political scandal, electoral shifts, and their ramifications on national discourse. Krystal and Saagar provide a balanced yet critical perspective, urging listeners to scrutinize both governmental actions and media portrayals to foster a more informed and accountable political environment.

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Timestamp References:

• Timestamps mentioned in quotes correspond to their occurrence in the transcript, e.g., (07:00) refers to the 7-minute mark.

Transcript

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[Krystal Ball]

Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.

[Sagar Enjeti]

This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist and anywhere else.

[Krystal Ball]

So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com Become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

[Sagar Enjeti]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see [e-mail] Good morning everybody. Happy Thursday. Have an amazing show. There it is, people. Live for the Pound bro show here. Last bro show of the week. It's okay, we're in mourning here. Just joking. We're waiting for Crystal to get back from vacation. We're all excited to actually, you know, we're excited to get back to some.

[Ryan Grim]

You know what some people are really clamoring for? What? You and Emily. Me and Emily, they just want the unvarnished. They want the unvarnished. Like just raw maga just like you would not. Celebration.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, yeah, we could. In fact, if Emily and I did a show together, we would probably be dunking even more vociferously on MAGA. And so MAGAs would only get more upset at us. But that's okay. That's what we do here. All right, let's go ahead and get started. We're gonna be covering the fallout from Signalgate. Ryan and Emily did a great job yesterday. They broke down some of the new messages. We're gonna fully go through all of them. What they reveal, what the excuses are, what the administration has decided to do. We'll then get to the fallout section. In terms of the politics, as this continues to be actually one of the biggest Trump scandals that has yet penetrated. Current data tells us it is the number one story currently of the Trump administration that has gone viral to everybody. Astounding. Some of the political fallout here in Washington. Tulsi Gabbard and John Ratcliffe in front of Congress there, getting pressed about it. We're gonna talk about the Democrats. They were able to flip a Trump district in the Pennsylvania Senate seat. Super interesting. It's a state Senate, obviously, but does give us some indication this was what, Trump +15, Trump +16 district Democrat there was very narrowly able to win. Could be a sign of what's to come in the midterms. We're gonna talk about some interesting developments in. There's been some protests on the ground in Gaza. Some people are saying it's against Hamas, some against perhaps like the Israeli military campaign. Ryan's gonna break that down for us. There have been continuing arrests of some pro Palestinian foreign students here in the United States. Ryan's gonna give us an update on that. And then finally, Ryan and I will update NPR and pbs. We're gonna talk about the defund campaign currently happening in Congress and some hilarious footage. Just no matter what side you fall on, that is coming out of Congress. But with that. So let's go ahead and get to the signal texts, shall we? So after the Trump administration spent like better part of a day saying there was no classified information there at all. Nothing, don't worry about it. Everything was totally above board. Jeffrey Goldberg over the Atlantic against his better nature, Ryan, because he was trying to protect all of us from all this classified information. He just said, you know what? Screw it. I'm Gonna release all of them. And you know what? He should have done that from the very beginning. But, okay, here we are. And now we can all see it for ourselves and judge. That's called journal, isn't it? So, okay, let's go ahead and put them all up there on the screen. Let's start with the first one. Now, what do you notice in that very first text message? Ryan, what's the very first thing that it says?

[Ryan Grim]

M A R Added Michael Waltz.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Added you to the group.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, there you go.

[Sagar Enjeti]

The second thing is what? Disappearing message time set to one week. Okay, my message group with my buddies, it's got a one day disappearing time, right? So why is it set to one week? That's crazy. You know, why do they have better. You know, like, why do we have better OPSEC than this? It's totally ridiculous. Now, let's continue, shall we? We had cut out, and we're only including here some of the new text messages for people to see. But what's fascinating to me is the internal debate here. Joe Kent, some of you guys might know Joe Kent. He ran for Congress twice in the state of Washington. Very, very realist guy. And here he is as one of Tulsi Gabbard's deputies, actually arguing in the chat, saying there's nothing time sensitive that is driving this timeline for the strike against the Houthis. We will have the exact same options in a month. Quote, the Israelis will likely take strikes and therefore ask us for more support to replenish whatever they use against the Houthis. But that's a minor factor. I will send you the unclassed data on pulled on shipping. He's talking there specifically about the amount of shipping there. John Ratcliffe, the CIA director, says we are mobilizing assets to support now, but a delay would not negatively impact us. And additional time would be used to identify better starting points, points for coverage on Houthi leadership.

[Ryan Grim]

By the way, can we pause on this real quickly? Because there are a group of people in this country who still care about the Constitution and the War Powers act and have insisted that this was an illegal strike and that you need congressional authorization for it. This proves that it was the case. Because the only way you can get around Congress is if you say this was an emergency.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's right.

[Ryan Grim]

Because obviously Commander in Chief in an emergency situation doesn't have to let American service members die just because of paperwork.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Right?

[Ryan Grim]

They are admitting in writing that there is no rush. They're literally saying, no rush. We can do this later if you can do it later. Therefore, constitutionally speaking, you're required to get congressional authorization.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Unless it's the 2001 Authorization of Military.

[Ryan Grim]

Force, which I don't even think they tried to use that because that's against Al Qaeda. And the Houthis fight Al Qaeda.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, but Ryan, they've been updating that thing for a long time. Right. It never matters.

[Ryan Grim]

Also, it's quaint. The Constitution, as we will talk about later in this show.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, who even cares about that anymore? But let's continue here with the text messages, shall we? Because this again, we're revealing here a lot both about how this, this entire thing was not only not time sensitive, it didn't work because it didn't actually accomplish its goal of stopping this. I also think just had to put this in here about Mr. Waltz. Mike Waltz here, you could see him here arguing with JD Vance who is saying, hey, why are we doing this? Only 3%. He's like, well actually the trade figures, we are 15% of global and 30% of container. It's difficult to break that down to us specific because of the container going through the Red Sea or not. Whether we pull the plug or not today, European navies do not have the capabilities to defend the types of sophisticated anti ship cruise missiles and drones the Houthis are now using. Let's pause on that, shall we? So these European nations, let's say Germany, the UK, France, we're talking about what, three of the top G7 economies in the world. Actually all of them have much more powerful navies than almost any other country in the world except for the US and China. And so if our national security advisor is saying they don't even have the capability to deal with a group that has been bombed into smithereens for the last 10 years and is using like secondhand Iranian missiles that they've gotten, you know, via transfer, that's a bit of a problem. Shall we, can we all just sit there and ruminate on that a little bit?

[Ryan Grim]

Luckily for Europe and the UK and France and the rest of them, Waltz is either a liar or a moron. Everything you read there is a lie.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes.

[Ryan Grim]

Like they do have the capacity to shoot missiles at the Houthis.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Or it's like. Or Mike Waltz is saying that we need to do it now. The only reason that we need to.

[Ryan Grim]

Be lying so that we can be the ones.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's right. And why would we be the ones to do it either? A, to feel big and tough and to stick it to Iran. Because that definitely worked under Biden or it's to defend Israel. And as they admit also in the chat, the fall apart of the ceasefire has direct impacts here, as Joe Kent himself admitted. Now let's continue here with the text messages and let's see what else that we can, shall we? So this is the actual update from Pete Hegseth and I would say this is the one where you basically got him dead to rights. And let's keep this up here because this, by the way, America, this is what your government is telling you is not classified. This is before the strike team. Update time now 11:44 Eastern Standard Time. Weather is favorable. Just confirmed, we are a go. 1215 F18's launch. 1345 trigger based F18 strike window starts. Target terrorist is at his known location so should be on time. Also strike drones launch MQ9s 14, 10 more F18s launch second strike package. 1415 strike drones on target. This is when the first bombs will definitely drop. Pending earlier trigger base targets 1536 F18 second strike targets. Also first sea base Tomahawks launched. So the Trump administration's argument is that because he said that the target terrorist is at his location, that there was no classified information that was included there. Can we all just stop for a second? This level of retardation is honestly just too much for me. You're really going to argue that the known use of the munitions and the exact time of an attack was not classified at the time that you sent it? Fine, then tweet it out. If you believe that. If you believe that, then allow any American service member privy to that information to post it ahead of the attack. Okay, go ahead. Now, as you and I know, Ryan, the stupidest shit in the world is classified by the United States government. We have a massive over classification problem, as you all saw with the JFK files. So there is genuinely no universe on planet Earth where this was not classified at the. There was no like not classified at the time that they sent it. And then second, what you also can just see here in the sheer stupidity of the way that they are acting. I know I'm calling for this early. Put a 2 up there on the screen. Because this was quote unquote, the smoking gun as to whether it was classified. Look here at what our idiot National Security Advisor's justification is. No locations, no sources and methods, no war plans. Foreign partners had already been notified. Bottom line, President Trump is protecting America and our interests. So their response is that actually Pete Hegseth shared attack plans and not war plans. Thus there was no classified Information here whatsoever. It is an insult to all good people's intelligence to argue this. It's just preposterous.

[Ryan Grim]

We never got congressional authorization for war. Therefore, it's not a war.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, there you go.

[Ryan Grim]

Therefore, there can't be war plans.

[Sagar Enjeti]

What are we doing here? I just. I really cannot stomach this level of stupidity. I cannot. Now, let's continue with the text messages and let's go. Because there's also more that we reveal here, also in terms of the way that we conduct war and what exactly is a good plan. Yeah, here's my current. My favorite, from Pete Heckseth. More to follow. We are currently clean on opsec, meaning that there have been no leaks. God's a whistle to our worries. We are clean. Clean as a whistle. All right, let's continue. And this also shows us again how dumb a lot of the people who are in power actually are. Namely Mr. Waltz, who added Jeffrey Goldberg. VP building collapsed, had multiple positive ID. JD goes what? He goes typing too fast. The first target, their top missile guy, we had positive ID of him walking into his girlfriend's building, and now it's collapsed. Excellent. And a good start there from John Ratcliffe. So presumptive there. It's like, oh, so did we kill the girlfriend? Right. So what's up there?

[Ryan Grim]

And everyone else in the freaking apartment building.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, right. What is J.D.

[Ryan Grim]

Vance, by the way, doing dropping excellent on a war crime here? And who's the thumbs up on the war crime? Like, that's a war crime.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It's just one of those where, you know, you rarely get to see the internal, you know, way that we even acknowledge this type of stuff. You're never supposed to put this in writing. Right. Whenever you just kill, you know, innocent standby or whatever. And it also. I can't tell you guys how many times I've been in the Pentagon briefing room, and we would ask things like, so what steps did you take to? They're like, we take every possible step to minimize civilian casualties. We did this and this and this and this and this. And here you have the National Security Republic. Yeah, he walked in his girlfriend's building. We just collapsed it. We were like, what?

[Ryan Grim]

Hold on. The guy they're saying they killed was a senior official who works in the missile department.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Right.

[Ryan Grim]

They have other engineers.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes.

[Ryan Grim]

Like, okay, like, this is not Osama bin Laden. This is a guy who is, like, somebody's boss in a missile program. It's awesome. When they kill him and his girlfriend and everyone else in the apartment, they will hire. They'll put out a little wreck. Hey, we got a job opening now for a guy who can run a missile program.

[Sagar Enjeti]

And Ryan, you covered drone strikes for years. So can you just tell us, like, not only the pattern that this strikes with the war machine going all the way back to the Obama administration, but just for you to be able to nakedly see this, I mean, what is it? Because as you and I done, we have heard these claims from the CIA and from the Pentagon for almost more than a decade now. They're like, listen, you have no idea the amount of steps that we take. And here's. There's not even a pretense of rules of engagement or any of that. They're like, yeah, we just killed them.

[Ryan Grim]

Right.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Got it. Right.

[Ryan Grim]

Because they think nobody's watching. It shows how normalized it is to not care about civilian casualties. Nobody on that thread knows anything about the number of civilians in that apartment building. Nobody said, wait a minute. Are we sure that this apartment building in the middle of the night was not filled with sleeping people who had nothing to do with this? Do we? I'm assuming you checked. You guys checked this, right? And also all the references to God and praying while you're actively killing innocent people.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, they're saying, oh, God, bless our troops and all that. May be one thing if I pray for Vic.

[Ryan Grim]

What do you mean? We pray for victory. Victory in what? This is not a. This is not a battle.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's the problem. You're shooting Tomahawks off of a ship, right? We're inverting, like, using bombs, dropping them from very sophisticated airplanes and from guided missile destroyers and acting like we're invading Normandy on D Day.

[Ryan Grim]

Also victory. Guess what? The Red Sea blockade is still going on.

[Sagar Enjeti]

The Red Sea blockade is still going on. There actually was just strikes again yesterday, not that anybody's noticing and. Or doing anything in terms of the effect. Biden bombed Yemen for over a year, as you said. He even admitted. Yes, the strikes will continue. Will it work? No. Okay.

[Ryan Grim]

But they will continue.

[Sagar Enjeti]

What are we doing here again? And, you know, there's so much to say here, both about the stupidity of just feel good operations like this, which do nothing, you know, killed. Killed some Houthi guy. Great. Strikes are continuing. Maybe. Yeah, maybe, Right? Not that they released it.

[Ryan Grim]

Here's some classified information, by the way. We have positive ID that he's in the apartment building.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Right?

[Ryan Grim]

Okay. There's a chance that there's some drone that has some in.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, he said MQ9 Reaper drone.

[Ryan Grim]

There were MQ9 Reaper drones. It's not obvious, though, that the MQ9 Reaper drone was the source of the positive ID that he's in the apartment. Did they have human intel, human intel on the block that said, hey, he's in there. Does that mean they have a mole? Or is it a civilian who's on the block who they're working with? Now, Iran is going to sweep up all the comms from that block and try to snuff out if there was a mole, a human source. So did Hegseth give up a human source or Waltz give up a source? And maybe it was a drone, I don't know. But that's why to say that this stuff is unclassified and you can just post it on Twitter is absurd.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Let's call their bluff. Fine, do it before every attack. Just post it. Fine. I'm fine with that. Actually, it'd be useful because we're like, okay, here's what we're talking. Here's exactly what we're going to use. Here are the targets. And then you and I can say, so did it work? Did it hit the Tokyo? I would actually like to know that. It'd be nice, wouldn't it? All right, let's try that. So I already showed you guys Mike Waltz's dumb justification, but, oh, man, the White House line on this, I just. Again, it insults the intelligence of the viewer and of the entire country. Let's take a listen.

[Ryan Grim]

What is it about what Pete Hegseth wrote that makes you say, this is not classified?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Well, it's not just me saying that, Peter. It's the Secretary of Defense himself who is saying this as well. And he put out a very strong statement earlier today listing all of the things that were not included in that message that he sent to the group. And again, this message, there was no classified information transmitted. There were no war plans discussed. Why did the Atlantic downgrade their allegation about war plans to attack plans? They're now playing word games because they know this was sensationalist spin from a reporter who is well known for doing this. We have said all along no war plans were discussed. No classified material was sent. You have the Secretary of Defense saying that. You have the Director of the CIA, the Director of National Intelligence, the FBI Director, all testifying to that under oath, and they should be trusted with that.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Nobody's texting war plans. Well, I noticed this morning, out came something that doesn't look like war plans. And as a matter of fact, they even changed the title to Attack Plans because they know it's not war plans. Attack plans, not war plans. They are insulting all of our intelligence as if this is an excuse. You know what a better excuse would be or a better response? Yeah, Our national security advisor, he's an idiot, and he added this person, and we're never supposed to be there, and he's being fired yesterday. So we've dealt with the problem. We're moving on. Instead, they're attacking Jeffrey Goldberg and the Atlantic as if it's his fault that he. What did Waltz say?

[Ryan Grim]

That his got sucked in.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Sucked in? His contact got sucked in. As much as I despise drug dealers, I ask you all the next time you drug dealers out there get caught to tell the police, oh, that number got sucked in. Yeah. I don't know. You ever been in a situation where you have a contact and somebody else's number? Try telling that to the police. Use that as a defense in a court of law.

[Ryan Grim]

A lot.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I guess. I ask you to do that for my own edification and amusement to see how it will work out.

[Ryan Grim]

Every. Every guy in the country who's been.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Caught cheating, his phone or her number got sucked into my phone.

[Ryan Grim]

No guy would even like, bother to try that.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Nobody, no one is even dumb enough to try that. Yeah, you got to have some other like, oh, my friend sent it to me or whatever, you know, it was initials. I didn't know what it was.

[Ryan Grim]

Fellas trying to text Jeffrey Goldberg.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Fellas, try that one next time.

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[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes.

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[Sagar Enjeti]

It'S just too much. The best what we've seen yet. The best actual response here has been from Secretary Rubio. He's like, look, someone made a big mistake. Yeah, yeah. He's like, that's it. That's all we can say. Let's take a listen.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

A four first question. Let me just say, on the signal thing, this thing was set up for purposes of coordinating how everyone was going to call. You know, when these things happen, I need to call foreign ministers, especially of our close allies. We need to notify members of Congress. Other members of the team have different people they need to notify as well. And that was the purpose of why it was set up. Obviously, someone made a mistake. Someone made a big mistake and added a journalist. Nothing against journalists, but you ain't supposed to be on that thing. So they got on there and this happened. I've been, you know, I can speak to myself or my presence on it. I think my role on it was just speaking for my role. I contributed to it twice. I identified my point of contact, which is my chief of staff. And then later on, I think three hours after the White House's official announcements had been made, I congratulated the members of the team. I've been assured by the Pentagon and everyone involved that none of the information that was on there, though not intended to be devoted, obviously that was a mistake and that shouldn't have happened. And the White House is looking at it, but that none of the information on there at any point threatened the operation of the lives of our servicemen.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Somebody made a mistake. Just say it.

[Ryan Grim]

That's how you make it.

[Sagar Enjeti]

But you know why you can't say it? Because then you have to fire the idiot who made a mistake. That's why I'm like, you know, watching Hegseth have to contort himself into a knot. It's not even his fault. This is Trump. Trump is standing by and just allowing this idiot to stay in his job. I also wanna say this. I think Trump is losing his edge. In the old days, anyone who flailed like that on television, you're gone.

[Ryan Grim]

That's right.

[Sagar Enjeti]

First term.

[Ryan Grim]

That's the crime, right?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Walt committed was.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Did you not see that TV interview? It was humiliating. You know anybody. You don't even need, like a 60 IQ to watch that and be like, yeah, this guy is obviously lying. And Trump is not only allowing this, he's beclowning himself by allowing this idiot to keep working for him who's like, it got sucked into my phone. And now the White House said yesterday that Elon Musk's technical experts are what technical experts.

[Ryan Grim]

Do you know Big Balls is on the case?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah. We need a forensic chain to look at how this happened. The guy had the phone number in his phone, and then he added the wrong number. It's not hard.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, done.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It's done. Yeah. Case closed.

[Ryan Grim]

We need an efficient review of this. Not Big Balls spending weeks with a.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Committee, I just can't get. You know, for me, Ryan, you know, I'm watching these national park rangers get fired, and, you know, all these other folks get fired. Maybe some need to go, maybe some don't, whatever. But this guy gets a second chance.

[Ryan Grim]

Forgiveness, you know, 14 years of impeccable performance reviews.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Right.

[Ryan Grim]

And you're fired because Big Balls didn't understand what your job was. And it's had something. The word diversity was in it. And so.

[Sagar Enjeti]

But Mike Waltz gets to keep his job.

[Ryan Grim]

This guy is fine.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Again, it insults the intelligence of all good people. Next part. Let's go to this one because this is great. So, as you'll all recall, Mike Waltz said, I have never met and never communicated with Jeffrey Goldberg before. Here's a photo of him and Jeffrey Goldberg. They're standing right next to each other.

[Ryan Grim]

And tell the world where they are. Because that's even worse.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, it's actually even better. They're at the French Embassy where they are attending what was some French documentary.

[Ryan Grim]

With a French Filmmaker.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, that's right. Some Q and A for a French filmmaker.

[Ryan Grim]

He should be in Guantanamo.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I'll tell you, it is a nice embassy, if we're all being honest. It's a beautiful, incredible. That is the heart of swamp Washington. It's just. It's too much again, where the guy says, I've never met and never communicated.

[Ryan Grim]

Except at the French embassy.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Except at the French embassy. And here's a photo of me standing right next to him. What, you think they didn't have a little conversation right before that? Maybe that's when his number got sucked into his phone. Right. It's just again, you know, I can say it over and over. And then finally, a six. Let's put it up here. Mike Wallace. Apparently, for some reason, his Venmo list is public. I was talking to the team this morning. I was like, bro, am I the only guy who's in his private Venmo list since I was like, 20 years old? What are we doing here?

[Ryan Grim]

Is Michael Waltz still walking around with this phone that is known to just suck up random nuts?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, that's right.

[Ryan Grim]

This is a dangerous.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Would he want to get rid of this phone? This is very. Yeah, this is.

[Ryan Grim]

The phone should be studied.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So let's presume here that the CNN journalist and the MSNBC producer and all these other journalists which were publicly available on Mike Waltz's Venmo also got sucked into his phone. In terms of how this all shakes out at this point, Trump has now allowed the humiliation of this news cycle to continue. He has given congressional Democrats the greatest blessing to drag out some dumb, you know, long hearing process. Because now if they don't fire Waltz so they can try and compel him to. Of course it's not gonna happen. He refused executive privilege. The Secretary of Defense has to testify legally before Congress. I think, what is it, four or five times a year? Something like that. And so they're obviously gonna press him if the Democrats do take the midterms. What's the easiest Lewinsky style hearing type of thing to initiate classified hearings, referring things to the day you just bought yourself two years of scandal for no reason. And, you know, people might think this is dumb, but I mentioned this in the intro. Axios did some data analysis. This is the most viral story of the Trump administration.

[Ryan Grim]

It was on.

[Sagar Enjeti]

This is everywhere.

[Ryan Grim]

Andy Cohen joked about it on Watch what happens live last night.

[Sagar Enjeti]

There you go. So Bravo.

[Ryan Grim]

You're in the Bravo.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's what I mean. But okay, even take that out of it. Go on TikTok. Or Instagram or any of these. Everyone is making jokes about the group chat, like, this has entered the zeitgeist.

[Ryan Grim]

Andy Cohen joked about it. Just talking about Signal, as in, everyone understands this. Didn't need any context.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Bingo.

[Ryan Grim]

It's just everyone understands this, the whole country.

[Sagar Enjeti]

If you're even tangentially experiencing pop culture or the news or TV, this show, YouTube, whatever, you've heard about this because it's a real thing.

[Ryan Grim]

Because everyone's made that mistake.

[Sagar Enjeti]

They have.

[Ryan Grim]

But nobody has defended it, and nobody.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Has defended it as stupidly as Mike Walls. And so I just keep coming back to this. You have a guy who literally committed the greatest Washington sin that you can make. Number one is jeopardize classified information. Then the second greatest Washington staffer sin is you become the story, embarrass your boss. You embarrass your boss and now his boss, who is firing tens of thousands of people based on efficiency claims and others and excellence in government. And we're getting rid of dei is keeping this idiot around. It's shocking.

[Ryan Grim]

And the problem the Democrats seem to have here is that they seem hell bent on trying to use this to get rid of Pete Hegsett.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I noticed that. I was gonna ask you about that because I don't get it. Rather than Walt, they got him dead to rights. He's an idiot. It's done. Closed case. Hegseth, I mean, look, Walt is a guy that's sharing the information.

[Ryan Grim]

Walt is a pro war Washington creature.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I was gonna say. I think that makes him more.

[Ryan Grim]

And Democrats are more comfortable with pro war Washington creatures who. Who have the support of AIPAC and the pro Ukraine war types. Democrats are just more comfortable with that kind of guy than with Hegseth, who is more skeptical of. I mean, his signal chats notwithstanding, he's not exactly a dove.

[Sagar Enjeti]

He's not a dove. He's got a bad neocon pass, but he's more maga, let's put it that way. Whereas Waltz, like you said, I mean, this guy was arguing for war with Russia, like, yesterday, before he worked for Trump, right? He's like. You can see it in the group chat. This guy's like, no, actually, we need to bomb Yemen. Here's why. Because there's some ChatGPT analysis.

[Ryan Grim]

30% of the containers are. Who knows where those goods are going? And in Europe, you know, they may manufacture some of it, and then other component parts wind up in here. So really, we should go to war with the entire world.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's right. It's like, okay, got it again. It's just the stupidest possible move. And watching the White House and even JD Was attacking Goldberg.

[Ryan Grim]

Democrats could get Waltz if they would just go for it.

[Sagar Enjeti]

What are we doing, Democrats? We're attacking Jeffrey Goldberg. I tweeted something to that. You know what?

[Ryan Grim]

Making us defend Jeffrey Goldberg.

[Sagar Enjeti]

This is outrageous. Jeffrey Goldberg. I hate the man so much. And I said this. I go, a journo exaggerating his headline. Now, a bigger problem than being the National Security Advisor of the USA accidentally adding said journo to the chat and lying about it. As I said, you need a sub 60 IQ to go along with this.

[Ryan Grim]

And the better headline was, but, you know, war planners exposed war crime in real time.

[Sagar Enjeti]

There you go. That's a good headline. You know what else is good?

[Ryan Grim]

And he kept that out, that they knocked that apart.

[Sagar Enjeti]

The other thing I can't really understand here about Goldberg is he's clearly protecting Walsh to some degree because their bodies burned, obviously. But at the same time, if someone was like, if I leaked something, let's say, and someone was like, oh, I've never met Sagar before, I'd be like, okay, oh, here's a photo of the two of us together. And actually, here's whenever you added me. And here's all of our past communication. Just so you all know, in terms.

[Ryan Grim]

Of my original tip, that they are in contact and that they had been in contact previously, but he burned him because he kind of had to. Because at this point, you've added in, it's a huge story. You have to burn the guy every. Exactly. Everything Goldberg has done since then affirms that original tip and that original idea because he has done everything he can. Yes, he burned Waltz, but he's done everything he can to kind of divert attention to Hegsen and to not not burn Walt. You're right.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Shows he feels guilty. Why is that?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Us Internet sloots to go and find a photo of Goldberg and if the guy says, I've never met you before, be like, that's just literally not true. I met this time. This time I met him.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sagar Enjeti]

He even said, I met him before in the article.

[Ryan Grim]

And so for Waltz to come out and say he didn't, it's like just aggressively stupid.

[Sagar Enjeti]

A liar. Yeah. It's just like the public record. And really what they are betting on, and this might be a good bet, is that MAGA and Trump are so stupid that they will allow their intelligence to be insulted to own the Libs and the Atlantic. The only people you're Owning are yourselves.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

You know, when the world gets a little crazy and everything is moving too fast, don't you just wish you could get away from all of it for a while? Well, that's exactly what the all new 2025 Nissan Murano can do for you. And to be clear, you don't even have to go anywhere. The Murano is the getaway. It was designed from the ground up to be a refuge from the daily grind. I mean, it has a Bose premium sound system which can play your favorite, most relaxing music. And there's nothing like a world class audio system to just transport you to a better headspace. Then there's the Murano's massaging leather appointed seats. Yeah, massaging seats. Talk about melting away your stress. So could getting stuck in traffic become your happy place? I don't know. It sounds like it could in the all new Murano. You should probably check one out for yourself. You gotta drive the all new 2025 Nissan Murano today. Bows and massaging leather appointed seats are optional features.

[Unknown Host 1]

Does this podcast make you happy? Of course it does. That's why you're here. But it only comes out once a week for happiness. Every night. You need Adam and Eve.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes.

[Unknown Host 1]

I'm talking about sex toys. It's cool. It's cool. You have earbuds in right? Adam and Eve, America's most trusted source for adult products has been making people very happy for over 50 years with thousands of toys for both men and women. Just go to AdamandEve.com now and enter code IHEART for 50% off. Almost any one item plus free discreet shipping. That's AdamandEve.com code IHEART for 50% OFF.

[Krystal Ball]

Transform your space instantly with new original art you love at Saatchi Art. Discover thousands of curated one of a kind paintings, sculptures and photography for your home from today's top emerging artists around the world. Whether you're filling a blank space on your walls or starting an art collection, find the perfect piece for your specific style and budget at Saatchi art. Plus their 14 day satisfaction guarantee means you can buy with confidence. Visit Saatchiart.com today and get 10% off your first work of original art with code I HEART. That's 10% off at Saatchiart.com that's S A-T C H-I ART.com Dave Portnoy over.

[Sagar Enjeti]

At Barstool News or no Barstool Sports. Not Barstool News.

[Ryan Grim]

Call it Barstool News.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I guess we could call it Barstool Sports. Dave Portnoy put out a video, and he was like, you know, guys, Mike Wallace has got to go, so let's take a listen.

[Dave Portnoy]

I've seen a lot of people be like, oh, you're mad about this, but we had a president like Biden with dementia who had the nuclear codes. Yeah, that's exactly it. That's exactly it. That wasn't right then, and this isn't right now. In this new administration, you want to take accountability. Trump, you may love Michael Waltz, you love Pete Hesketh. You may love these guys. Somebody has to go down to me is Michael Waltz. He's the one who added him to this conversation. But you can't have the top of the top security people in the United States with the most sensitive information in the world adding random editors of a magazine that hates Trump's guts to a group chat, talking about an attack before it happens on a terrorist group. You can't poo poo it. You can't downplay it. You have to sit up there and be like. Like, holy, this is a up of epic proportions. There will be accountability. I will get to the bottom of this. And frankly, I think I. I don't like calling for people's heads. Michael Waltz, it seems like you're the guy who added him to the group chat. You have to lose your job.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, basic. Yes, basic stuff. You know, it literally says, Michael Walsh added you to the group chat. There's no sucking in. It's over, closed.

[Ryan Grim]

You added him.

[Sagar Enjeti]

There was. Even now, the current spin from MAGA is, oh, one of his deputies added him. Guess what? They literally said. No, the deputy didn't add him. I added him. Okay, So, I mean, the only way, maybe that you could get around it is my deputy sent me the guy's contact, and that's how the number got sucked into my.

[Ryan Grim]

Not even trying to.

[Sagar Enjeti]

But even if you did that, then fire the deputy. Why are we standing by this? Do you know who his deputy is? Cause I do. Alex Wong.

[Ryan Grim]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Alex Wong's been around this town for a long time. All right, Alex Wong.

[Ryan Grim]

Laura Loomer's coming after Totten. Laura Loomer's coming after Alex Wong.

[Sagar Enjeti]

She should.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Great. Thank you, Laura, for your service. Alex Wong worked for Tom Cotton's unreconstructed neocon. 100%. Probably been leaking to Jeffrey Goldberg since the day he came to Washington. This guy's a complete, like, just blob individual, you know? Not a surprise that Michael Waltz hired him. Those of us who track insider personnel been Tracking this guy for a long time. But that's another thing for Wallace. Why are you protecting this guy then if it's not his fault? My only then I can only surmise it's not his fault.

[Ryan Grim]

It's your fault.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah. It's like there's the only way that this all went down. And yeah, Trump for some reason again wants this to be the number one story that is surrounding him. I mean, I thought he was on better ground. Let's just look again. We could debate merits and all that stuff all day long, even if you disagree on the deportations thing. And Glenn mostly convinced me that there were serious screw ups there. That is a much better news cycle for Donald Trump. Immigration is his number one issue right now. Number one. Every single other issue is mostly underwater according to a lot of these tracking polls on issues now. Sure, caveats and all that stuff, et cetera. But that's where I want to be fighting my incompetence on a group chat joke. That's not where you want to be.

[Ryan Grim]

And underneath that is you're bombing Yemen because you failed to end the war. Israel, which has the White House having to respond to Portnoy. Whenever Portnoy is being used against Caroline Levitt in the press room, you're losing. So let's roll that real clip because it was just kind of funny.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's right. Can you just clarify who is investigating, who's leading that? And also Dave Portnoy, who endorsed President Trump said today that he thinks that Mike Waltz should leave.

[Ryan Grim]

Could you respond to that?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Sure. Great respect for Dave Portnoy, but I just answered that previous question from Jennifer. As for your original question about who's leading, looking into the messaging thread, the National Security Council, the White House counsel's office, and also, yes, Elon Musk's team. Elon Musk has offered to put his technical experts on this to figure out how this number was inadvertently added to the chat again to take responsibility and ensure this can never happen again.

[Ryan Grim]

Got all the greatest minds, got all the greatest minds trying to figure this out. Don't worry, port number.

[Sagar Enjeti]

We get right to it. We're a technical expert. Ryan, it's too much, man. Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

So Tulsi, who handled herself okay, you know, some lying two days ago, was brought back to the Hill. Let's roll some Tulsi from yesterday because this is. They're just still taking these.

[Sagar Enjeti]

They are just gonna take this is every time you testify for Congress, you're gonna be forced to sit there and eat L after l after there's no defending it. And watch. Let's take a listen. The time Mr. Witkoff was actually in Russia during this chat discussion, was he not? I was not aware of that. Was he on his personal phone at the time? I don't know. Well, it's my understanding that he was indeed in Russia. Director Gabbard, you were also traveling during this discussion, correct? Yes. And where were you? I was traveling through the Asia Pacific region. I don't recall which country I was in at that time. You don't remember the country? I'd have to go back and look at the schedule.

[Ryan Grim]

We. We do, by the way, have news. According to Wytkoff.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, he didn't bring his phone.

[Ryan Grim]

He did not bring his phone. So. Okay, good.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, no, but actually, there's two things there going on. There he goes, you guys, you idiots. You said that this was on my personal phone. I don't even have my personal phone in Russia. And you're like, okay, but you did just confirm that this was on your personal phone, man. You know, you just admitted that this is your personal phone. You're not supposed to do that. In terms of official government records, they.

[Ryan Grim]

Can penetrate your phone while it's sitting on your bedside table.

[Sagar Enjeti]

And not to be annoying, Ryan, because I do understand where people are going to take this the wrong way and be like, oh, are you asking for more inefficiency? I'd be fine if they use signal. But you do need to preserve these records. The reason why you preserve it is because there might be, let's say, a plot to assassinate the President of the United States. That's never happened before. And then maybe a guy named Jefferson Morley 60 years from now needs to get to the bottom of said stuff and literally doesn't have access. Some of my favorite books are the reconstructions of very difficult policy periods. So, for example, the decision to oil embargo, Japan. It is so useful to go back and to read the internal discussion. Cordell Hull said this, you know, in a memorial, and you could see the cables. You had our ambassador being like, don't do it. This is gonna lead to this. Roosevelt. The minutes in the Oval Office. You can literally watch it all happen in slow motion. Same thing. Another one of my favorite books is called. It's like this. No, it's the best and the brightest, David Halberstam. And specifically, a reconstruction of the US Decision to escalate into Vietnam. Same thing. Reading the cables. McGeorge, Bundy, Robert McNamara. This stuff matters. I understand why the people in charge may not want it to. To be preserved, but for historical purposes, this is actually important. Someday some naval historian out there is going to write about the ability of the Houthis, a non state actor with limited technology, to fully blockade the entire Red Sea for the global empire. That's a remarkable event. No.

[Ryan Grim]

Right. You know, yeah. And they're gonna have to rely on, like, Fox News clips.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Right? We're gonna rely on tweets and news clips and not be able to look back on it. And what I'm just saying is not just a norm, it's actually the law. Like, you're supposed to have a record of preservation. And for this reason, to be able to go back and for historical purposes and for subpoena and to make sure that the law is followed. And, you know, just. They're making a mockery not only of that, but really. Again, I just keep coming back to all of our intelligence. So same thing here. Director Ratcliffe from the CIA and Chelsea Gabbard, still getting pressed, and they just have nothing to say. Let's take a listen.

[Ryan Grim]

Did this conversation at some point include.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Information on weapons packages, targets, or timing? Not that I'm aware of.

[Ryan Grim]

Director Gabbard, same question.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Same answer. And defer to the Department of Defense on that question?

[Ryan Grim]

Well, those are two different answers, but you're saying that did not. That was not part of the conversation. Precise operational issues were not part of this conversation.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Correct. So that was previously. And they said precise operations were not included there. We showed you all the messages, guys. Like, it's pretty obvious. Director of Ratcliffe of the CIA. Not that I'm aware of. What are you aware of, then? You're not aware of your own group chat? What's happening?

[Ryan Grim]

I don't read every message in every group chat, but that seemed like a good one.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, neither do I. But, yeah, that's probably out of all the messages in that chat. That's the only one I'm reading, right? That's the one that I'm like, okay, got it. Paying attention. And, you know, maybe you would want to scroll back in your phone and look at it. Look, I just. Again, they are continuing this of their own, making the easiest thing to do immediately after. Mike Walls, we appreciate your service. Susie Wiles calls him up and says, mike, listen, man, we all made mistakes.

[Ryan Grim]

You added a journalist.

[Sagar Enjeti]

You added a journalist. The President needs his resignation letter on his desk right now. We gotta go. We'll see you. We wish you the best.

[Ryan Grim]

And then you move on.

[Sagar Enjeti]

And everyone moves on.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, it's a dumb.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Everyone says okay, yeah, it's really dumb. Yeah. There might be one or two things, but instead it's a one day thing now becomes a one week thing that we've been covering this. I guarantee you the fallout and all this is gonna continue. Every Republican in Congress is gonna get asked about this. Every Republican or every member of the Trump cabinet, you're gonna be pressed about. They're not even gonna be able to do a press conference now, forever. I mean, Trump. Every single. I watched the entire White House press briefing room. Nine out of 11 questions were about this signal chat. And she was like, is this all that you guys have to ask about? And it's like, yeah, because you're lying and you just keep saying stupid shit. Like, we're gonna have our technical experts look into this. This is not going away.

[Ryan Grim]

Right. And the press loves when an official says a thing that can be verified.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Oh, 100% same.

[Ryan Grim]

And you can verify that it's not true. Like they love that. Doesn't matter what it is.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Right. And you know, I think the public loves it too.

[Ryan Grim]

Oh, yeah.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Like I said, there's something about the story. It has penetrated the zeitgeist. People are loving it. They're eating it up, the memes, crime everywhere. Yeah. It's the sheer stupidity of it. And then if we pair that at a major political level, again, if I'm the government, what do I want my narrative to be? I want it to be about tariffs, I want it to be about immigration.

[Ryan Grim]

That's what we talked about, the auto tariffs.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's right, auto tariffs. And we haven't decided not to put in the show because it's actually kind of unclear what exactly they are. And I want to see the actual effect as they go in, just in terms of whether it applies to just finished cars or not. So we'll probably cover it on Monday. But the point is, is that you want like news about things that you're doing to be the thing. And so again, like I said, even on the deportations, look, we can argue about due process and all that stuff all day long. At the end of the day, stuff is pretty popular, you know, in terms of deportation, I will acknowledge that. Yeah, it's popular. Like that's what the ground that I wanna be fighting on. Just today There was some MS.13 operation, same thing. That's what you want the news to be about. Now they can say, oh, it's your fault because you're not covering it. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. You're the people. National security Mistake and you refuse to fire the guy and then beclown yourself for a 72 hour period by attacking the people who reported it as opposed to the people who were responsible for it. You deserve everything that's coming your way. So this is the clown show. This is the car clown show. That reminds me just of 2017. Except then I think Trump would've had the good sense to actually fire him. I mean, Scaramucci was fired after what, 13 days? Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

And they're accidentally buttressing the credibility of the Atlantic and Jeffrey Goldberg.

[Sagar Enjeti]

You're right.

[Ryan Grim]

People are gonna be like, oh, maybe that wasn't a hoax.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Isn't that the worst part of the.

[Ryan Grim]

Suckers and losers thing?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Isn't that the worst part? That the Atlantic has been getting a bunch more subscribers? It's like, guys, why do you do this? You know, they need each other. They were failing. They literally would go on their road to bankruptcy before all of this. And now you just gave them the number one story in the world. It drove a ton of subscriptions, don't they? I bet you they printed millions just off of this.

[Ryan Grim]

Don't they have Bezos wife's.

[Sagar Enjeti]

No. Lorraine Powell Jobs? Even worse. Steve Jobs.

[Ryan Grim]

That's right.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Steve Jobs widow is the person who is bankrolled.

[Ryan Grim]

So they were going to be okay?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, they're always going to be fine. But yeah, why they even pretend to need to make money is always like a whole lot of. That's a difficult and different conversation.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

You know, when the world gets a little crazy and everything is moving too fast, don't you just wish you could get away from all of it for a while? Well, that's exactly what the all new 2025 Nissan Murano can do for you. And to be clear, you don't even have to go anywhere. The Murano is the getaway. It was designed from the ground up to be a refuge from the daily grind. I mean, it has a Bose premium sound system which can play your favorite, most relaxing music. And there's nothing like a world class audio system to just transport you to a better headspace. Then there's the Murano's massaging leather appointed seats. Yeah, massaging seats. Talk about melting away your stress. So could getting stuck in traffic become your happy place? I don't know. It sounds like it could in the all new Murano. You should probably check one out for yourself. You gotta drive the all new 2025 Nissan Murano today. Bose and massaging leather appointed seats are optional features.

[Unknown Host 1]

Does this podcast make you happy? Of course it does. That's why you're here. But it only comes out once a week for happiness, every night. You need Adam and Eve.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes.

[Unknown Host 1]

I'm talking about sex toys. It's cool. It's cool. You have earbuds in right? Adam and Eve, America's most trusted source for adult products, has been making people very happy for over 50 years with thousands of toys for both men and women. Just go to AdamandEve.com now and enter code IHEART for 50% off. Almost any one item plus free discreet shipping. That's AdamandEve.com code IHEART for 50% OFF.

[Krystal Ball]

Transform your space instantly with new original art you love at Saatchi Art. Discover thousands of curated one of a kind paintings, sculptures and photography for your home from today's top emerging artists around the world. Whether you're filling a blank space on your walls or starting an art collection, find the perfect piece for your specific style and budget at Saatchi Art. Plus their 14 day satisfaction guarantee means you can buy with confidence. Visit SaatchiArt.com today and get 10% off your first work of original art with code iHeartra. That's 10% off at SaatchiArt.com that's S A T C H I Art.com.

[Ryan Grim]

In a special election for state senate in Pennsylvania, Democrats flipped a deep red Republican district. James Malone ended up defeating the Republican candidate by just a few hundred votes. On the other hand, you only have a few thousand people that end up voting in these races. This is Lancaster county, the suburbs outside of Lancaster and the more rural areas there. Trump had won it by something like 15 points. Let's roll a little bit of James Malone, very Lancaster man, winning this seat.

[Sagar Enjeti]

There is no safe seat or there's no place that is not available to run. Hours after polls close across northern Lancaster County, Democrat James Malone was projected the winner of Tuesday's special.

[Ryan Grim]

You can certainly imagine that guy being a good time at the tailgate ahead of the birds game, can you not? Saga and apparently so he was running against the chairman of the Lancaster County Commission, who obviously is a high profile guy in the area, but not terribly well liked. Elon Musk had invested some energy in this race. He had a bunch of paid voters throughout the state in his database after you know, offering, you know, 100 bucks to anybody that would sign his petition and then go out and vote against the law, by the way. But you know, when you win, reason.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Why this is so significant is not just the Trump margin, but the registration advantage. So one of the things that was a canary in the coal mine ahead of the election was the crazy registration numbers coming out of Bucks county and a few other places is something that Scott Pressler, who's one of those Republican activists, really bragged about about the ability to have registered Republicans. And that registration figure ended up being obviously a canary in terms of the Republican advantage in the state of Pennsylvania and actually the flipping of some of these districts that previously had gone for Biden and went to Trump. So the reason why this is significant is that in this county, the Republicans actually held a huge registration advantage. Now the seat opens up because the person who held it left to go work for Dave McCormick, that's currently the Republican in the United States Senate for the state of Pennsylvania. But the Democrat has not won the seat since 1979.

[Ryan Grim]

So, like 18.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

So 1879.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Oh, is really.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, it's like post reconstruction.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Big deal.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Shall we? And the reason why it all matters is that in Pennsylvania, they're all doing post Trump analysis. What do we even do now? Josh Shapiro recorded a robocall that went to all of the people in the district. Remember Shapiro, dramatically more popular than any other Democrat, like, in the entire state. What is it, 13% approval margin or something like that? It's crazy. Even in Republican.

[Ryan Grim]

It might be 19.

[Sagar Enjeti]

You're right. It might honestly even be higher. Now here we see.

[Ryan Grim]

No, I mean, I mean, you might be right. It might have been 1979.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Oh, okay. All right.

[Ryan Grim]

But that's Democratic district back regardless. Doesn't matter. Long time.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It's been a while. 18 there. 1979, same thing, same day. Let's just consider that what we see here is a blessing and a curse for the Democrats. The blessing is this. Before the election of 2024, these Libs who are registered and want to vote in low turnout elections, they are ready to roll. They're ready to put up their signs and they're ready to vote and they're ready to donate and to get activated. That's the midterm advantage. Same thing. Reason why we saw big midterm gain there for the Democrat. The problem is, is that in a high turnout election with very low propensity, people, people who have no idea what the state Senate even is, which, you know, I get it, if you're just living your life, you're like, what is the state Senate? You mean the United States Senate? For those folks, they are dramatically more pro Trump this time around. So we don't wanna read too much into this, but it's still obviously very important. Especially for the midterms, because midterms is usually lower turnout, which means that the more dedicated people come out. And you just can't look back at the Obama presidency and not say that 2010 genuinely did change everything.

[Ryan Grim]

Right. Because they were the makeup of winning special elections in 09.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Exactly. They were blowing it out in 09. You could see all the Tea Party stuff. All the script was right there for those of us who are watching.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. And Lancaster is a particularly well organized area for the left. There's a group called Lancaster Stands up that I've written about in the past, going back to, like, 2018. They've been doing a lot of grassroots organizing and door knocking and building up their local capacity. And so they might be slightly better positioned, even in a special election than in general. But Democrats are looking at this, and what you saw from a lot of them was, okay, now onto Wisconsin.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes, let's talk about that. Can you break that down for us?

[Ryan Grim]

So Wisconsin, there's a Supreme Court race coming up between the liberal is or the Democrat. It's a nonpartisan race. What? Susan Crawford on that side, and Brad Schimmel is the county judge, former Republican state attorney general. So even though it is a nonpartisan race, everybody knows, everybody in Wisconsin knows if you're Democrat, you want Crawford, if you want Schimmel, there are obviously major issues that will come to the Supreme Court. Abortion rights, but also gerrymandering and election laws. That's what matters on the kind of national level, because Wisconsin, of course, will continue to be a battleground state. Elon Musk has. His groups have put in. He has put in something like $17 million so far. It's like the most that there's been for a Supreme Court campaign already.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It's.

[Ryan Grim]

What is it? April 1st. So this coming Tuesday, this election, Emily will be there.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Oh, really?

[Ryan Grim]

On the ground for the election. Wisconsin native Democrats, you know, they have money, they obviously can't keep up with Tesla cash, but they're not going to be completely ignored and blanked off of the airwaves. Wisconsin is going to have a. A Supreme Court race every year for the next six years or something. So we're gonna potentially see a lot of.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Why do they care so much, though?

[Ryan Grim]

Back and forth.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Why do they care so much here about the state Supreme Court? Because of the gerrymandering cases, the gerrymandering.

[Ryan Grim]

Cases, which will influence whether or not. So the Republicans, when they took control in 2010 of the state, redrew the boundaries for the state legislature and also for the Federal one, so that the, the House delegation has been imbalanced despite it being. People can look it up now, but despite it being a 50, 50 state, far more Republicans getting sent to Washington. So if you can chip away at that when you only have a three seat deficit in the House, it's important to move from there to retake control of the House for Democrats. And then the Supreme Court decides and when you can vote what the mail voting rules are, what the rules are around counting. You just had this executive order from Trump yesterday trying to kind of take federal control of elections. It won't work because federal government doesn't really have that level of control, especially without congressional action. He tried to put in something in place that said, you know, ballots that come in after election day, which are mostly military ballots, can't be counted. So that's the battleground. And the battleground is the Wisconsin Supreme Court. Got it. When Pennsylvania flipped its Supreme Court in 2017, 2018. Republicans see that as a key reason that they lost Pennsylvania in 2020 because then the court opened up, you know, did redistricting and opened up mail voting in a way that the Trump team thought was fraudulent, unfair and illegal and all those things.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Because they probably would have. Whatever. We'll get into that. It's like, yeah, you just happen to win the presidency with lower propensity voters next time, but whatever. Doesn't need to go into that. Yeah. As you said, this election, I was just looking. Determines whether you have the 4, 3 liberal control. So this literally will determine the flip ahead of midterms. So that's why it's so important. And then more so you actually am looking at some of the data pretty honestly, I'd be pretty. Feeling pretty good if I was a Democrat. Nearly 48% more early ballots have been cast compared to the same point from two years ago. Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

[Ryan Grim]

Can only do so much for these. Right. And this is low propensity because if you're voting in the Supreme Court election, you care more than the average person.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Politics.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah.

[Sagar Enjeti]

You have a real. Like you're. No offense, but you're weird. If you care a lot about me.

[Ryan Grim]

You might end up getting a couple million people turn out.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah. So right now it's just more than 345,000 people have returned their ballots either by mail or. That's crazy. Compared to 233,000 at this point just two years ago. What is even the voting population of Wisconsin, it can't be that many. So honestly, good for you guys that's pretty high voter participation. But I mean, they're also being bombarded with ads. Apparently more than $81 million has been spent now on a state supreme court race just to show you guys how important that is. So not just Elon who is moving in here, but you know, this Susan Crawford. She apparently has raised more than $25 million right now for the race so far. They are actual, like she's got George Soros apparently going back backing her, JB Pritzker, who has been doing some rallies and stuff. So they're blanketing the entire state. And like I said, it's not that big of a state. So you easily could reach a lot of people with this amount of overall media attention. So. Super interesting. Just we're always looking for, what does it mean, all of this, especially for the midterms? Usually. I think the rule here is that with the midterms, these lower propensity special elections, you're gonna have to really pay attention to them. It also goes to. It's a big test case of Elon because there's still a lot of question over how much influence Elon actually had on the Pennsylvania results. Because his people obviously want to be like, yeah, see our registration drive and all that. I'm not going to downplay it, but the fact is that we saw a national trend. You can only pay so many people or inspire them to come sign some registration. And it would be different if Pennsylvania dramatically outperformed the rest of the country, but it kind of didn't. You know, the same low propensity figures were across the entire nation from California to Texas, you know, to even here, Virginia, the margins for Donald Trump. So you can see even where Elon and his groups had no input. Virginia, yeah, they still had a huge run up in the overall tally and obviously Trump won the popular vote. So pretty important, right? Yeah, yeah. So keeping it all together, we're going to watch that, guys. But the Democratic race, it certainly matters a lot. And Emily's going to be on the ground, so that should be fun. We can get a on the ground report from her.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

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