3/31/25: Trump 'Couldn't Care Less' About Inflation, MAGA Signalgate Stupidity, Trump Promises Third Term

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Episode Released: March 31, 2025
Title: Trump 'Couldn't Care Less' About Inflation, MAGA Signalgate Stupidity, Trump Promises Third Term
Hosts: Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti
Producer: iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Summary

In this episode of Breaking Points, hosts Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti tackle a series of pressing political and economic issues surrounding former President Donald Trump. The discussion spans Trump's recent statements on inflation and tariffs, the ongoing MAGA Signalgate scandal, and Trump's bold declaration to seek a third term in office. The episode provides a critical analysis of these topics, examining their implications for the American economy, political landscape, and democratic norms.

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1. Trump's Stance on Inflation and Tariffs

Timestamp: [04:11]

The episode opens with a deep dive into President Trump's recent comments regarding inflation and tariffs, particularly his indifference to price increases resulting from tariffs on foreign-made automobiles.

• Trump's Indifference to Price Hikes:

  • Quote: “I couldn't care less if foreign automakers raised prices due to tariffs.”
    — Donald Trump, [04:11]
  • Analysis: Krystal criticizes Trump's contradictory stance, highlighting how his current position undermines his campaign promises to reduce inflation. She emphasizes the potential negative impact on consumers and the broader economy.

• Economic Implications:

  • Saagar's Insight: He discusses the potential for increased prices in both new and used car markets due to tariffs, warning of broader issues like supply chain disruptions and consumer hardship.
    — Saagar Enjeti, [06:24]

• Contradiction to Campaign Promises:

  • Krystal's Critique: Krystal points out the stark contrast between Trump's campaign rhetoric and his current policies, stressing that his approach may lead to long-term economic instability.
    — Krystal Ball, [06:55]

Notable Quote:
Krystal Ball, [06:55]:
"That's not what's being offered to people whatsoever. There's just no narrative that makes sense."

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2. MAGA Signalgate Scandal

Timestamp: [33:17]

The hosts examine the ongoing MAGA Signalgate scandal involving National Security Advisor Mike Waltz and his interactions with journalist Jeffrey Goldberg.

• Incident Overview:

  • Waltz's Statement:
    — Mike Waltz, [33:17]:
    "My phone number is in his phone because my phone number is in his phone."

  • Krystal and Saagar's Analysis: They argue that Waltz's actions suggest illicit leaks to Goldberg, raising concerns about transparency and integrity within the administration.

• Government Response:

  • Internal Recommendations Ignored: Despite top advisors urging Trump to remove Waltz, he remains in his position, highlighting administrative dysfunction.
    — Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti, [51:25]

Notable Quote:
Saagar Enjeti, [43:57]:
"It's such ridiculousness and shows stupidity."

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3. Trump's Promise for a Third Term

Timestamp: [60:15]

One of the most contentious topics discussed is President Trump's declaration of intent to seek a third term, challenging the 22nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

• Trump's Declaration:

  • In an interview with NBC News, Trump confirmed his plans to seek a third term, stating, “I’m not joking.”
    — Donald Trump, [60:15]

• Legal Obstacles:

  • 22nd Amendment Analysis: Saagar breaks down the constitutional barriers preventing a third-term presidency, emphasizing the clarity of the law.
    — Saagar Enjeti, [61:29]

• Potential Strategies and Challenges:

  • Krystal's Skepticism: She doubts the feasibility of any strategies to circumvent the amendment, such as running a puppet successor, likening it to Russian political maneuvers.
    — Krystal Ball, [66:30]

• Host Commentary:

  • Krystal: Highlights the improbability of constitutional amendments being swiftly changed and criticizes the administration's attempts to maintain control despite legal constraints.
    — Krystal Ball, [73:40]

Notable Quote:
Krystal Ball, [73:40]:
"He is a man who... refuses to willingly accept giving up power... he is fully serious about this."

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4. Economic Implications of Current Policies

Timestamp: [11:51]

Krystal and Saagar analyze the broader economic ramifications of Trump's tariff policies, forecasting potential stagflation and economic downturns.

• Stock Market Reactions:

  • Current Trends: They note that futures are down and anticipate further declines due to uncertainty surrounding tariff implementations.
    — Saagar Enjeti, [06:55]

• Consumer Sentiment:

  • Poll Data: Citing CBS News YouGov polls, they highlight a significant shift in public perception, with many Americans feeling worse off under Trump's policies.
    — Krystal Ball, [11:51]

• Potential for Stagflation:

  • Saagar's Warning: Discusses the risk of stagflation—combining stagnant economic growth with high inflation—and its dire consequences for employment and consumer spending.
    — Saagar Enjeti, [12:01]

Notable Quote:
Saagar Enjeti, [12:01]:
"This is why messaging and all this stuff matters... we're on track for that right now."

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5. Wisconsin Supreme Court Race and Political Maneuvering

Timestamp: [02:13] - [04:05]

The episode delves into the high-stakes Wisconsin Supreme Court race, examining the significant financial contributions and the involvement of influential figures like Elon Musk.

• Financial Expenditures:

  • Massive Spending: Over $100 million has been funneled into the race, with Trump personally contributing $20 million.
    — Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti, [02:13]

• Political Implications:

  • Referendum on Trump’s Influence: The race is portrayed as a critical test of Trump's enduring influence and the effectiveness of his economic policies.
    — Krystal Ball, [04:05]

• Valuation of Political Moves:

  • Saagar's Insight: Discusses the improbability of such high financial stakes and the potential long-term consequences for the Republican Party.
    — Saagar Enjeti, [03:30]

Notable Quote:
Krystal Ball, [04:05]:
"It's a real sort of referendum moment and bellwether of where things stand politically."

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Concluding Insights

Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti express deep concern over the trajectory of Trump's policies and the apparent lack of administrative competence. They emphasize the potential for significant economic hardship, erosion of democratic norms, and political instability if current trends continue. The hosts call for increased vigilance and support for independent media as essential safeguards against the consolidation of excessive power and the undermining of democratic institutions.

Final Notable Quote:
Saagar Enjeti, [76:22]:
"I'm a firm believer that President Trump will run and win again in 2028. So I've already endorsed Trump. A man like this comes along once every century, if we're lucky."

Krystal Ball:
Expresses skepticism about the execution and viability of Trump's third-term ambitions, reinforcing the constitutional barriers and the administration's current focus on sustaining power despite widespread opposition and economic fallout.

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Key Takeaways

• Economic Policy Risks: Trump's tariff policies may lead to significant inflation and economic instability, affecting both consumers and the manufacturing sector.

• Administrative Dysfunction: The MAGA Signalgate scandal underscores internal conflicts and lapses in accountability within the Trump administration.

• Democratic Threats: Trump's declaration to seek a third term poses profound constitutional challenges and potential threats to democratic norms.

• Political Landscape: The intense financial and political maneuvers in races like Wisconsin's Supreme Court highlight the ongoing struggle for influence between Trump loyalists and opposition forces.

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Closing Remarks

Krystal and Saagar conclude the episode by urging listeners to remain informed and engaged with independent media sources to critically assess and respond to the evolving political and economic challenges facing the United States.

---

Transcript

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[Sagar]

Hey guys. Sagar and Krystal here.

[Krystal]

Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.

[Sagar]

This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.

[Krystal]

So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to full shows, unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

[Sagar]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see [e-mail] Good morning everybody. Happy Monday. We have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have? Crystal, it's great to have you back.

[Krystal]

Nice to be back in the studio here. Lots to talk about. Of course, Wednesday is Liberation Day, as I'm personally calling it.

[Sagar]

Well, it will be for a lot of hedge funds, a lot of 401.

[Krystal]

Anyone who has anything in the stock market? Most likely. So we're taking a look at what the plan is even likely to be with regard to additional tariffs and how the markets are reacting and all of that good stuff. Also some new polling numbers with regards to how people feel about Trump and Trump's handling of the economy. We're looking at the very latest, of course, from the signal gate fallout, which just continues now. Waltz is apparently on thinner ice, so we'll see what's going on there. Trump says that he's gonna run for another term that is blatantly unconstitutional, but he says he's gonna figure it out and he's gonna try, so we'll see how that's gonna work out. I'm taking a look at how Z used to usher in an authoritarian crackdown. Jonathan Allen and Amy Parnes are joining us to talk about their new book. I'm very excited about this. So they've got all the inside scoop about Biden dropping out, about Kamala switching in, about Obama's role, about Trump's campaign, all of the things. So they're gonna be spilling the tea from their new book. We also have Ben Wickler, who is the chair of the Wisconsin Democratic Party. Big Supreme Court race in that state. Elon Musk was there last night trying to generate support for his preferred candidate. So we're gonna get a look from Ben Wickler there in the state and what that all means. So lots to get to this morning.

[Sagar]

Yeah, it's exciting. And Emily's actually down in Wisconsin right now.

[Krystal]

That's right.

[Sagar]

She'll have some on the ground reporting for that on Wednesday's show, which we're excited for.

[Krystal]

Wisconsin native, Emily.

[Sagar]

Yeah, Wisconsin native. I've never. I still am wrapping my head around the, like, almost $100 million or so that have been spent on a Wisconsin Supreme Court race. It's completely outrageous.

[Krystal]

Elon put in 20 million. Doll support.

[Sagar]

Yeah. He personally put in 20 million. And then on the Democratic side, it's like 26 million. I'm like, this is insane. Is there really that much at risk? Apparently, yes. So we'll get to it.

[Krystal]

Yeah, It's a real sort of referendum moment and bellwether of where things stand politically. So a lot of eyes on Wisconsin.

[Sagar]

All right, let's start with the tariffs. As Crystal said, Liberation Day, it's coming. And let's go ahead and put this up there on the screen. Trump is, in his masterful communication strategy says this. I couldn't care less if foreign automakers raised prices due to tariffs. So this was a phone interview yesterday with NBC News. He was asked specifically about potential price increases. The President said he could not care less if automakers raised prices after he announced a 25% tariff on foreign made automobiles. Asked what his recent message was to motor industry CEOs and whether he had warned them against raising prices, Trump said the message is congratulations. If you make your car in the United States, you're going to make a lot of money. If you don't, you're probably going to have to come to the United States because if you don't make your car in the US There is no tariffs. When pressed to see if he told the CEOs not to raise prices, he said, no, I never said that. I couldn't care less if they raised prices because people are going to start buying American cars. I couldn't care less. I hope they raise their prices because if they do, people are gonna buy American made cars. We have plenty. Asked if he was then concerned about overall prices growing up, Trump said no, again, I couldn't care less because if prices go up, they're going to buy American cars. He said it like four times. Not necessarily the strategy I would use whenever we're talking about car tariffs and all of that. I mean, I guess to be fair, we are talking about foreign made vehicles. But the problem is of course that we talked here about is that many of the inputs even to our so called American cars are either from Mexico and or Canada. I mean, you know, the modern car industry, and this is something even the UAW and all of them will admit is completely globalized, I think to our detriment. But that's a much longer discussion. I think at this point. The problem is that if you are going to have such a massive shock to the overall supply chain and tariffs do increase, if you don't see some commensurate policy on the other side of that, well, I think people are gonna get very upset. Don't forget a huge part of inflation. And the way that people experience inflation over the last four years, it was eggs and it was gas. But we also don't seem to remember that 2021-2022 spike of overall used car market.

[Krystal]

Yeah, that's right.

[Sagar]

And so if we think about it, if we do have a situation where the overall aggregate price of cars does tend to increase, we will see a similar rise in the value of the used car, which is actually very difficult. That's almost 70% of the entire use of the entire car industry in The United States. And of course, it just makes it even more inaccessible. Parts and all of that could become more expensive. So bad for manufacturing, possibly, if we do see overall price increase, of course, very important for our manufacturing supply chain and then huge consumer problem as well. Yeah.

[Krystal]

I mean, there's a lot to unpack here. I mean, first of all, obviously, this is not how the tariff program was sold on the campaign trail. Trump was definitely not running around going like, your prices are going to increase. Yeah. I mean, he was pledging inflation, we all know, was a big political problem, big reality problem for the Biden administration. So he was promising to lower prices. Now that he's one office, he's like, I don't care if prices go up. I don't care if they go up on cars or go up on anything else. So obviously directly contradictory to what they were selling on the campaign trail, which was always preposterous. I mean, Sager was always honest, even as he was supporting some of the tariff regime, that, like, yeah, prices are gonna go up, but they tried to pretend like, no, that's not really gonna happen, and that's not how it works, blah, blah, blah. Obviously, that was a lie. And now we're getting the truth from Trump here with regard to how this is gonna be put into place. The auto tariffs are the sort of thing, if you're just focused in on that, that I could theoretically support. If it was focused on the auto industry, if it was done in an intelligent way, if it was paired with industrial policy that would actually be targeted and aimed at building up our domestic auto manufacturing industry. That is not what's happening here. That's not happening with cars. At the same time that they're instituting these tariffs, they're, of course, taking a hatchet to the federal government. They're going the opposite direction of having any sort of industrial policy. They're going back to austerity, to deregulation, all those sorts of things. And then, of course, we're not just talking about auto tariffs. Actually, we don't really even know what the tariff regime, nor does anyone else in the administration. Apparently, that's going to be instituted this week. But the indications are from Jeff Stein and other reporters and from what Peter Navarro and other White House aides are saying that Trump wants to go really big and he wants to go basically across the board. So this is going to be. If he moves forward and actually implements these tariffs and actually sticks with them, it is going to be a massive, massive disruption. There's just no doubt about that. Whatsoever. And Jeff made a good point about how, you know, this sort of conversation about tariffs and what purpose they even actually serve for Trump in this administration. It's kind of coming to a head this week because one theory from the business community and from Republicans who are more uncomfortable with tariffs is, oh, he's just using these as a negotiating tactic. Okay, so he threatened Mexico with tariffs and then he got some concession from them, and he's just using them as a negotiating tactic. Okay, that's one theory. Another theory is, no, he's using these to totally upend the current economic system. They're going to be put in place, they're going to be permanent, and it is going to cause a massive reorientation. And, you know, also look, when you're talking about putting tariffs on goods that are food and, you know, all sorts of things that working class people need to make ends meet, it's effectively a tax on working class people. So the other theory of the case is this is short term pain for long term gain in terms of theoretical increased industrialization within the U.S. i'm sure there are some other theories out there as to what's going on, but those, those are sort of the two competing possibilities of what Trump is doing here. And this week we will get a sense of which one is actually correct. And this morning, if you look at, say about 8am right now, futures are down in the stock market. The stock market was down last week. I'm sure there's going to be a lot of fallout from whatever happens to be announced on Wednesday.

[Sagar]

Oh, there's no question about it on the strategy front. I still don't think we can really read anything into it because originally we were doing Canada tariffs with Mexico, then we weren't, and then we were, and then we weren't again. And then even on the reciprocal tariffs, the way that he sold it at the State of the Union is we're gonna do a reciprocal tariff with every other country. Again, I actually think reciprocal tariffs is not a terrible idea. A reciprocal tariff is the idea that if you have a country has a tariff on our goods, then we are just gonna simply have the same one. Okay? I mean, you know, it doesn't seem so unreasonable. But then he was like, well, actually what we're gonna do is narrow the tariffs to 10 or 15 countries. They're like, okay, so now we're moving away from that. And now the latest is actually we're going back to a 20% ring around the United States tariff. And you're like, huh, all right. So my point is not only can I not keep track, I don't even think anybody in the White House knows, which is obvious. Right here is Pete er. Navarro. He is the advisor to President Trump on trade. He's been kind of a longtime trade guru. Fought a lot with the more anti tariff people in the first term. Here he was on television immediately after that couldn't care less interview came out. Here's what he had to say. You heard Lucas's reporting there where the.

[Krystal]

President says he doesn't care if the prices go up on US Cars.

[Unknown]

So what's the message to the US Consumer?

[Sagar]

The message is that tariffs are tax cuts, tariffs are jobs, tariffs are national security. Tariffs are great for America. Tariffs will make America great again. Okay. I mean, you know, not a lot going on there. Let's go ahead and see how this is working out at a polling level. And it does. This does not shock me at all.

[Krystal]

I just, I just have to say, coming on the heels of Trump being like, I don't care if prices go up, for him to be like, oh, it's a tax cut, I mean, it's just preposterous. Yeah, totally preposterous.

[Sagar]

This is why messaging and all this stuff matters, because what people can really pick up. Most Americans do support tariffs in principle, as long as they are correct, targeted, made in a certain way. I support tariffs in principle. The uaw, let's be clear here, is openly supportive of all of these auto tariffs, just to be 100% clear about what it means. The problem is always the back and the fourth, the chaos, the lack of the process. And it's not just me who is saying this. It's not really just nerds, political nerds who read the news. What are people the most sensitive about? Price. Now, let's put this up there on the screen. Here is from The CBS News YouGov latest Expectations vs. Now. Trump's policies are making you financially okay. So in January they expected 42% said better off views, now 23% better off. In January, worse off was only 28% views. Now is 45 or 42. And then the same is 30 to 35. So there's been a massive drop off, basically a flip from the better off to the worse off with the plurality there now saying that they believe that the policies are gonna make them worse off. Let's go to the next part. And this is actually the single most dangerous thing right here. Who is more responsible for today's inflation? 38% say Biden's policies, 34 say Trump's policies both equally is 19 and 9%. You are some 50. So days are into your administration. You've been approximately in power for 10 weeks. People are going to cut you a break. People cut Biden a break for nine months. Please do not forget that. But the more that you have this, and you can speed it up yourself if you, let's say, have yo yo tariffs that are in place and not in place and constantly back and forth and, oh, I don't know, the S and P is currently on track for its single worst quarter in the last three years since COVID Add some more on top of that and you see an overall drop in your 401k. Let's say that you begin to see stagflation. You have high inflation, unemployment begin to tick up. You have consumer demand that begins to drop. You have a home price which isn't budging. You have the Federal Reserve, let's say, which has already said they're like, oh, well, we're going to keep things kind of where they are right now. You're in a bad situation. You're gonna have high interest rates, you're gonna have very sticky inflation with tariffs and you're gonna have chaos in the government. People are not gonna feel a lot of confidence. They will ditch you very, very quickly. And I think that they are on track for that right now.

[Krystal]

Well, I mean, think about it. He makes it impossible for people who even want to defend me, what he's doing.

[Sagar]

I'm like, listen, I'm ready. I'm ready for a real tariff. Yeah, I'm ready to go.

[Krystal]

If you would do something that made sense to you, you would be here defending it. But how can you, because you don't even know what exactly. You can't.

[Sagar]

It's stupid.

[Krystal]

And you know, that goes for all of his White House officials too, who have to make up preposterous things like this is a tax cut when it's the polar opposite of that. I mean, this is, you know, Peter Navarro in that same interview, he claimed that Trump's tariffs are gonna raise $600 billion per year, $6 trillion over a 10 year period. This is what Jeff Stein is saying seems to reflect our reporting that Trump wants to go absolutely enormous on the tariffs, regardless of short term economic consequences. Hard to overstate how big $600 billion per year is. Would this be the biggest tax hike in US History? Jeff Stein is asking at the same time to your point about stagflation, Sagar, here is a headline from CNBC. This morning. First quarter GDP growth will be just 0.3% as tariffs stoke stagflation conditions. So stagflation is low or no economic growth growth and high inflation. And that very much seems to be the trend that we are headed in. You know, economists are increasingly saying that there are more and more warning signs of recession, not because any of it is inevitable, but as a direct consequence of the policies that are putting, being put in place from Trump. When we looked at that JL Partners word cloud, when they asked people, and JL Partners like right leaning firm when they ask people, hey, what's the biggest screw up from Trump so far? Overwhelmingly, the word that jumped down at you was tariffs. Because you're right, if they are sold correctly and if they are applied, like for example, people are pretty supportive of tariffs on China. Okay, China, we lost a lot of our industrial base there, put some tariffs on China. People see it as like a global competitor tried to re industrialize, get some of those manufacturing jobs back. People can be brought on board with that, even though it's still not an overwhelming support. But it's, you know, you can be sold on something like that. This, how can you even sell people on something that is so chaotic and so nonsensical? And especially at a time when the landscape, the economic landscape is very different from 2016, the number one concern now is inflation. That is very different from how things were at the beginning of the Biden administration or certainly at the beginning of the first Trump administration. And so it is remarkable, you know, politically to see the way that Trump is taking on so much water with regard to his economic handling, which again is very different from how people have felt about him this entire time. So it's gonna be, this is going to be a very interesting week on the economic front as maybe we finally get some sense of is this just a threat? Is it a negotiating tactic as many people on Wall street are hoping? In spite of what Trump has very consistently said in his consistent talk about how much he loves tariffs and how big he wants and all of the leaks from internally about how he's pushing aims to go bigger and bigger and bigger, is this a negotiating tactic or is he serious about implementing this massive tariff regime which will have immediate, very significant consequences?

[Sagar]

That's right. Well, let's put the counter up there because this is the one where you always gotta stick. Let's put it up there on the screen. From CBS, overall job approval 50%. I mean, that's high for Trump.

[Krystal]

For Trump, yeah.

[Sagar]

That's the highest. It's ever been 50% approval. 50%. He was underwater for basically his entire first term. So, you know, you really gotta keep that in mind. And you know, Andy Kaczynski flags this while he continues to not only have higher approval at any point, and even if Americans are souring there, Americans continue to approve of his immigration policy. Immigration is probably the only thing that's really saving him right now. And if you think about it too, what you are watching is you are watching them try and do these wild experiments economically as things become more real. Let's say that they do continue this strategy and let's say the S and P is down, let's say, I don't know, 20% on the year. And then you start to do a tax cut, which we'll talk about it probably tomorrow at some point. But there is beginning to be an internal realization in the White House. They're like, hey, we gotta do something over here. Because if we not only hurt the economy, but then extend massive tax cuts for corporations and for the rich, all while we don't, let's say, or all while perhaps like making more stringent work requirements or something for Medicare, good luck. Now that's in a nine month situation, you could easily be in your 30th percentile of approval because you would not only have a tax bill, you would have a lower. So you would have people who would have higher prices and a tax extension of lower tax cuts. Now, now they're possibly floating something about higher taxes on the highest income Americans. We'll see. I'm not going to hold my breath, but it is interesting at least that they're considering something like that.

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[Sagar]

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Rules and restrictions may apply. The point is, is that the landscape for them in the future, it's not good. Especially if there is a low. If there is a major drop in the overall stock market because we already know that they have a nine month to one year deadline. The tax bill has to be extended by the 2025 calendar year. There's no option. That tax bill is going to be unpopular. No if, ands or buts around it. And so with this, what I would want if I'm going to extend a massive tax cut would be what I'm being like, I need boom in stock markets. I need 25%. I need low employment. I need low inflation. Don't worry. People are not gonna care as much, right? If things are all good, but when things are bad. And now people are starting to tune in more to the economic news, which they do. They certainly are. Maybe not in the ways that everybody may want, but people are paying attention, I think, especially to this. And that is where I could see. I mean, look, it's not only blowout midterm territory. That's where you start to deal with like real threats to our overall agenda and presidency just for the next three years after that.

[Krystal]

I mean, we're gonna get a lot of political intel this week because you have not only this Wisconsin Supreme Court race that we're going to talk to Ben Wickler about, which right now Polymarket has what the liberal at like an 86% chance of winning.

[Sagar]

It's not that big of a market. Let's be clear. It's only like $450,000 or something. I mean, the presidential markets was like hundreds of millions. So it was much more efficient.

[Krystal]

Yeah.

[Sagar]

So I could be wrong. I'm just saying.

[Krystal]

Right, yeah, sure, fair. Absolutely. Fair enough. But it's not looking great for Republicans in the state of Wisconsin, which is why Elon went there yesterday to try to do this rescue effort and giving out his million dollar checks, whatever. You also have these two special elections in Florida, one of which is apparently uncomfortably close. In the seat that Mike Waltz, who's now obviously a national security advisor, he vacated that seat. He had won that seat by 38 points. 38 points. And they are worried about that seat. That alone tells you everything. Now expectations are, Listen, this is a very red part of Florida that the Republican is going to be able to pull it out. He's also himself, this very like bombastic and controversial character and so doing himself no favors, apparently in this campaign. You know, people are not happy on the Republican side with the way that he has conducted himself. But the fact that that seat is in question at all is crazy. Elise Stefanik having to be pulled, how much did she win? Her. That's like a plus 20 Republican district again, should be a layup, should be no problem for Republicans. And they had to pull her UN Ambassador nomination because they were worried that they could lose that seat. So we already know. Now, listen, caveat. These are low turnout elections. Democrats are very fired up. The Democratic base now is filled with high propensity voters. A shift that's part of the realignment as the voting coalitions have moved around and Democrats have more college educated voters tend to be higher propensity voters. But when you're talking about a midterm election you're still talking about it being important that you have those high propensity voters and who is really super motivated and also who is depressed. So if you have a cratering economy, a stock market that has fallen, economy that is either in recession or teetering on the brink of recession, prices that have skyrocketed, stagflation, and all of it is laid at the feet of Donald Trump. Even people who are more or less his supporters, they're not gonna be super psyched about coming out to vote for more of this agenda. At the same time, just in terms of additional economic news, you continue to see consumer sentiment falling off a cliff. You also continue to see things like delinquencies on mortgage payments, delinquencies on car payments going up and up. So the indications are pretty dire. It's not like the economy is on really firm footing here for people to be able to absorb the type of shock that Trump is planning to put into place. So that is the landscape here and it is gonna be a wild ride.

[Sagar]

I guess the only thing that you can say is because he's not actually, he's never been committed officially to any of this stuff. He's always been willing to pull back. You should all hope for that. Let's say there's a 20 or 30% correction and you get into a full blown panic on Wall street, which, look, I shouldn't downplay any of this stuff because there's real shit that is a result.

[Krystal]

Oh yeah.

[Sagar]

Not only is 401k, I mean, that's just at a personal level for everybody who is out there. That means, think about it, whenever your market cap and your stock and all that stuff goes down, what do people usually do? They pull back. Not only pull back spending, they fire a bunch of people. So there's real jobs, millions of jobs that are on the line here. So I can't sit here and just be like, oh, let's all just hope for a correction and all that. Don't forget depression goes up, the suicide rate. If you really wanna see something depressing, go check it for 0809. It's a disaster every single time, every major US depression from the Great Depression forward. In fact, the highest, one of some of the highest suicide rates the United States ever had was during the Great Depression. So you can go and see it for yourself. There's real human consequences to a lot of this. And you know, you can't screw with people's lives generally. And you know, even on the tariff point, this is the last thing I'll make is, you know, as you said, even with the China stuff, it's not all that popular. I mean, it's around like the 50th or 60th percentile. I'm not gonna sit here and pretend it's like 90%. I think the immigration stuff is way more popular than anything on tariffs. The problem that I always come back to is we are sitting on 50 some years of a policy and of an agenda that has been sold to people. Now think about the amount of deprogramming that it takes to say no TVs. Being cheap is not the most important thing. Buying a new car every five years is not only financially responsible, but it's also something that, that the new bills and whistles and all that from China, that's not the be all, end all of what your entire life is supposed to be about. Same with the new consumer goods. The American dream is not built on cheap MacBooks like this from China that you buy every two years, or an iPhone, which is basically the same over the last 10 years, that you just renew all the time. It's about being able to have children if you want to, staying in place if you want to, moving if you want to, being able to buy a house and to pursue whatever it is that you want to do. And not all the accoutrements that's in your house. But that's been the standard of living now for 50 years. That's two generations that effectively that have been brought up on this. So you would need not a massive cultural project like something from the White House which is disciplined, which is different. You would need like an entire apparatus that is united in this discussion. And you can't just sell it within all the bounds of chaos because if you do, what you risk is actually getting it totally affirmed of people saying like, no, no, no, no, this is not only what I know, but this is what I want. And then we're never gonna get back. This would be looked as an aberration, not as something else.

[Krystal]

Yeah, no, that's right. I mean, you also, you have to sell people on a new and different bargain that is better than the one they have. And instead what is being promised is just like we're going to hike the prices of the things that have remained to be relatively inexpensive. And we're not going to help you on health care, we're not going to help you afford a house. In fact, the tariffs are going to make housing even more expensive because many of the construction materials are coming in from abroad and are going to be more expensive. So you're not offering people like, okay, we're ending this bargain of cheap consumer goods where China basically like exported deflation on these cheap consumer goods. We're ending that bargain. But here's the new bargain, here's what you get. You're going to be able to afford a home, you're going to be able to send your kids to college, it's going to be more affordable, you're going to be able to get health. None of that is being offered. So it's just we're going to hike prices and you're going to suffer for what nobody could really say. I mean, there's just no narrative that is being offered here that makes sense to people whatsoever. And so yes, I actually am for a new economic, you know, grand bargain, so to speak, here I am in favor of that. That's not what's on the table. What's just being offered to most people at a time when they already are really stretched thin because of the inflationary effects, because also because of decades of wage stagnation, because of decades of union busting, destroying worker power, because of decades of. Yes, while those consumer goods were cheap, all of the building blocks of a middle class life, housing, education, health care, have skyrocketed in price. So that it is so difficult to afford on one or two incomes. It's almost impossible for many people to be able to afford those things on two income households working full time. So, you know, that's the landscape into which they're saying, and by the way, suck it up and pay more for your car. Suck it up and pay more for these consumer goods, clothing, food, et cetera. And yeah, that's, that's not, it's not a good deal that's being offered that's on the table right now.

[Sagar]

No, it's not. And you actually need to offer something very, very different, as I said. Otherwise you're basically, think about it with Trump's chaotic strategy, which is constantly pulling back and saying something and then pulling back, then you will not only inflict damage in the interim, you won't get the end result that you were trying to do. And you will turn the public that is against you. And I think that's really what they're flirting with right now. And America really, I mean, let's think about when's the last time they had a full blown. Covid is a little bit different because Covid was like, you know, it was pandemic, et cetera, the economy, the stock market drop and all that was like relatively short lived. We have not had prolonged stagnation for a long time. Even 2022, I think was last year that there was a drop in the overall S and P, but then you had two rip roaring years after that. I mean, we have not had a couple of years of like actual decline in a, a long time in this country. And if you remember what things were like in 08 09, it's not a surprise that that is where so many, not only the populist movements come from, but that is where the millennial generation and all of that really became disconnected from the overall American dream. And then the split that has happened since then has been devastating. So anyway, look, there are long standing social consequences. You don't need to be a historian or any of that to see multiple times in the past when things like this have happened. And so they want to save not only their political future, but really, I think that the contract that they're trying to sell to the country, they're going to have to do something different. But there is no indication of that whatsoever.

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[Krystal]

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[Sagar]

Rules and restrictions may apply. Turning now to signal gate. Okay, so the idiocy continues in the White House. Remember, if we all recall the signal chats leak, Mike Waltz says that Jeffrey Goldberg, the neocon journalist over at the Atlantic, that his number got sucked into his phone. Obviously it was preposterous. He says he never met him there. The photo came out showing the two of them together at an event over at the French embassy. He says I didn't ever have talked to him before. Well, Goldberg is basically saying that's bullshit to basically every single claim that Mike Walsh has made. Let's take a listen. This isn't the Matrix. Phone numbers don't just get sucked into other phones. I don't know what he's talking about there. You know, very frequently in journalism, the most obvious explanation is. The explanation. My phone number was in his phone because my phone number is in his phone. He's telling everyone that he's never met me or spoken to me. That's simply not true. I understand why he's doing it, but, you know, this has become a somewhat farcical situation. Okay, let's parse some language, shall we? My phone number is in his phone because. My phone number is in his phone. My theory behind all of this, and I'm curious what you think. Yeah, Ryan basically said this as well, is that it's obvious Waltz has been leaking to Goldberg now for quite some time. Yeah, the screw up here was so big that Goldberg had to burn him, but he had to burn him in such a way that he can't fully cast the blame. So he can't come out and just be like, look, this is ridiculous. He's been leaking to me for X, Y, and Z number of months, so he has to say careful things. My phone number is in his phone because my phone number is in his phone, not because it's like he's had my phone number for a number of years. And obviously, we've been in communication. I mean, the meeting thing, this isn't the other thing about Goldbreaker. He puts it in the story, but he's very sly. He's like, yes, we have met once, or. But he didn't talk about some of the actual circumstances. And then the photo comes out from 2021, literally, of the two of them standing right next to each other.

[Krystal]

Right.

[Sagar]

And then you add Mike Waltz's sketchy behavior on top of all of this. I mean, it's so preposterous for everything that is happening right now inside. And unfortunately, I think it's starting to fade away. Like, I think that MAGA and Trump are basically getting away with it. They're like, we're gonna weather this. The storm. No scalps for the enemy. And I'm like, do you guys not understand how this is gonna land to people? I mean, I know it's weird to say the signal story is the biggest story of the Trump administration.

[Krystal]

Yeah, I know.

[Sagar]

All the data shows us that. And I think because it's funny, there's an element of hilarity to it about texting the wrong person or whatever, and everyone can somewhat relate to it, and everybody likes to see people in power just be like them. But that's not the point. The point is not about all of that. It's really about the lies, about the sheer idiocy behind the scenes and how they insult our intelligence. Like, to take to the national airwaves and say that somebody's phone number got sucked into my phone. I'm just sitting here being like, am I taking crazy? I feel like I'm in Zoolander. Like, I'm like, am I taking crazy pills? And the craziest part about it is, you know, I think you originally made this comparison of making fun of Joy Reid and be like, oh, it's just like those Russian hackers who hacked her old blog posts. I'm like, they genuinely think not only are you so stupid that you're just going to sit there and take it, but this is an indictment of the entire, like, MAGA ecosystem, which is either silent on it and. Or just backing Trump up, being like, actually, it's Goldberg's fault. I saw somebody say, be like, he should have left the chat immediately.

[Krystal]

Like, what is the opposite?

[Sagar]

He's just like, no, guys, the point is he's a CIA cutout. Cause he left the chat. You don't leave the chat. You stay forever and then you leak some stuff to your colleagues or whatever. I just, I really, I'm so stunned by how they're trying to give them a pass and they're like, no scalps or whatever. And it's like, well, hold on a second. Like, I thought that we're supposed to have merit or whatever. But, you know, similarly, I personally know several federal employees who have been screwed by either work, you know, coming back, chaotic procedure, no office space, which even though they were called back, sheer stupidity. I know several people who have either taken the buyout offer, et cetera. So you're firing tens of thousands of people, including park rangers and the nuclear scientists who are then rehiring on the theory that all these people are dead weight. And then you have this guy, the most basic screw up of all time for the top national security advisor, and he gets a pass. You don't think that people aren't gonna see this? Yeah, you know, at a very. That's my thing about fairness as well. If you're going to fire all of these people, then you should actually be even more ruthless with the people and yourself. But no, they're setting a different standard. And it's like, okay, I think America should really pay attention that the sheer idiocy, the stupidity, the lying, the expecting you to, you know, if you're a MAGA out there and they're genuinely. They think you're a fucking idiot like that. I want you to be clear, like, that's what they think of you. They think you're so dumb. And you know, to be honest, many of them are right, that you will just serve as some sentinel and be like, actually, it's the left that's the problem here that's demanding a scout. We don't play by their rules. I'm just like, okay, then, you know, just have a moron at the top of your national security advisory. I'm sure the entire country will be better off for it. I can't believe it. I really can't.

[Krystal]

Tribalism rots brain.

[Sagar]

It's amazing.

[Krystal]

It really does. Yeah. And I mean, I think the reason that. So first of all, that interview Mike Waltz gave to Laura Ingraham, it felt like, I guess he didn't think he would be pressed at all by her. And so even the basic question of like, yeah, but how did, like, why was this number in your phone? He had to come up on the fly with this. Like, oh, well, maybe it got like sucked into my phone. And then I loved when he was like, we're gonna get the best minds on it. We already know what happened.

[Sagar]

Elon's technical experts are looking again. Stop.

[Krystal]

We all know what happened here. It's. You and Jeffrey Goldberg have the same ideology. Like you're allies. You may be on different political teams technically, but in all of this you are allies. So it's very obvious what happened here. I think with regard to. He feels like he has to lie about it because he feels like the biggest, biggest sin for Trump. In particular, Goldberg's number would be being friendly with Goldberg, somebody that he hates.

[Sagar]

It does say something though, doesn't it, about the whole relationship with him and Goldberg where that is like you just said, you do have the same uniparty ideology. And all the reporting from behind the scenes is that Waltz quote annoys his colleagues because he's constantly talking about bombing Iran and. Or you know, it's like. Or he's like, oh, actually you even saw in the chats, right? Like he's like a brain dead idiot being like, ma, actually, Ma. Freedom of navigation, please. You know, sitting in there. Anybody from the Atlantic Council could have written something like that. It's just the way that this has all gone down just demonstrates also the stupidity. Why did Trump. You know, Michael Tracy made a good point. Cuz I was like, this is a person who's out of step with the Trump admin. And he was like, you know, that's not even true because Trump picked him. I go, you know what, you're completely right. Trump picked him for this job. So what are we all supposed to sit here and think?

[Krystal]

And the person who supposedly is closest to Trump, Stephen Miller, who sort of was speaking for Trump in coming in and say, okay, well this is. Sorry, jd about your concerns, but this is what the boss actually wants. Stephen Miller. And Stephen Miller is there backing up the. Yeah, no, we're gonna bomb them. We're gonna bomb this apartment building. Yay. To the death and destruction and great job everybody. Even though not a word is said about the fact that this policy, which by the way, they've continued to bomb, and it's continued to not work. This policy was tried in the Biden administration. It was a failure. There is no even expectation that it's gonna be successful this time around. It's just like bombing for the sake of bombing and because Israel wants us to. So the whole thing is. Getting a look at those chats. It shows you how incredibly, like, idiotic and facile and borderline insane the foreign policy. The standard foreign policy thinking is in this administration. And it's a carryover, this particular policy carryover from the last administration as well. And it also really gives you a window. This is something I was talking to Ryan and Emily about on Friday. It gives you a window into, like, okay, JD does his little, like. Well, you know, this is really, like, kind of Europe's problem. He's shot down by everyone who cares to weigh in. In that threat.

[Sagar]

Yes, you're right.

[Krystal]

There should have been, like, it's not just Mike Waltz. There should have been, theoretically, Pete Hegseth has had this come to Jesus moment, and now he's MAGA and he's America first and he's against the wars, blah, blah, blah. He's not backing him up. There's no one in that chain. Tulsi Gabbard's on that chain.

[Sagar]

Yeah, you're right.

[Krystal]

She's not backing him up. Steve Witkoff is in there. He's running around Moscow at the time. He's not back. Nobody in there has anything to say other than, yes, go team. Bomb the apartment building. Get the bad guys. Way to go. Not a mention of the fact that the policy will accomplish literally nothing other than complete and utter, you know, other than death and destruction.

[Sagar]

And let's linger on that.

[Krystal]

Israel.

[Sagar]

This is a very important Israel's bidding. What was the easiest thing to do? The lowest common denominator opinion in Washington is bomb the Houthis and. Or let's stick it to Iran, even. JD if we're all being honest, the Europe thing is probably just. I have no inside knowledge. I'm just telling you from what I think, it's very obviously, it's like one of these, like. Yeah, but Europe, you know, Europe is bad, and that's why we shouldn't do it. Which is, like, obviously something that you use because, you know, it's a framework that everybody has to be built into. It's fine. You know, you don't hate the player, you hate the game. But, you know, as you said, it's the one voice. And then Miller comes in, shuts it down. Mike Waltz comes in again with some literal copy pasta from ChatGPT about freedom of navigation, about why we gotta do it. Pete Hecsett's like, we're gonna go. We should go right now. And we've been bombing Yemen now for multiple days. That's the other. You know, nobody just sits there and go, hey, did it work? You know, what happened? How much did we spend on this operation? You know, tens of millions of dollars. We have now spent and discharged more missiles against the Houthis than in all the previous 30 years of combat from the United States of America. We don't sit there and just take any stock of any of that. It's like. It's so ridiculous. And it shows you, too, that the hardest thing to do is to even use some fake argument about, like, maybe we shouldn't do this. That is the difficulty. That's the difficulty in Washington today is to actually preach restraint, even couched in political rhetoric. That is actually the sickness at the heart. And it also shows you all going to war, it's easy. You know, every time I've read about the decision to go to war in Iraq, you would think that it would be difficult. No, no, no, no. It was the easy decision to make. Not only was the psyoped American people in on it, the media was bloodthirsty. Congress wanted to do something. It took lone voices of courage to say, no, we should not do this. And even they failed or didn't prevail or were compromised in their own way. Yes, sure, it's great to be vindicated. Years later. It doesn't matter if you don't say anything at the time. It's just, you're done, and we're gonna end up in a disaster. I really fear that's where we're next. Tomorrow we're gonna cover this Iran situation. Things are not good right now. You know, the rejection of negotiations and all that. I know what the solution is. We all do. We know where things are gonna end up. It's the easiest path of least resistance for them, but definitely not for us.

[Krystal]

And all done so casually. I mean, that's what the emojis. That's why everybody's sort of sticking on that, understandably, because, yeah, it feels like a group chat. You'd be in with your buddies or your family or. I said on Friday, your kid's soccer team coordinating snacks for the next game or whatever. It feels so casual. And yet 50 some people were killed in this strike. Fist, pound, emoji fire, American flag. There's not a Care or consideration over is like, who is this target? Is this. What's the. We're talking about a civilian apartment building here that we're collapsing. We're all just, like, celebrating, like, that's fine. And, you know, I know that our foreign policy has killed many civilians, but they always tell us, oh, we take all the care and consideration. And, you know, at least in the past, now it's not even. It's not even contemplated. So to have these. These decisions that are both life and death for the people that are being bombed and also can have extraordinary consequences in terms of pulling our nation into potential war with Iran to be taken so casually and with a total lack of regard for what the policy is even going to accomplish. That, to me, is what is so unsettling here. And then the use of Signal itself, I feel like, hasn't gotten commented enough that Pam Bondi went on and was like, yeah, we're going to keep using signal. Basically, it's being used intentionally to avoid FOIA requests. I mean, this is a way to try to subvert the legally required records keeping that is congressionally mandated. And I think it is standard protocol. No one on that chain is like, wait, why are we using signal for that? Shouldn't we be using more secure channels? Also? It was weird how many people were on the chain.

[Sagar]

Yes.

[Krystal]

Like, why is the Treasury Secretary on the chain? You know, like, okay, it has to do with freedom of navigation. So for him to understand the overall plan. Fine. Does he really need to know, like, what time and where and what type of military hardware is being deployed, et cetera? The whole thing is just total amateur hour. You know, I said on Friday, it gives like children playing war games. And I think that's also Sagar, why it has so broken through with the American public and so captured people's attention? Because it does. Like, there's a. When you're on the outside, you have this idea that serious people are making serious decisions with a lot of thought and a lot of intelligent argument about how exactly to do these things. And then when you see the reality of it, you're like, holy shit, these people are nothing. They're not. They're nothing special. And this is being done incredibly casually.

[Sagar]

If there is one thing that I could take away, it's that. Guys, Washington, this is how it all works. I want you all to know that America has been too psyoped from all of these movies into thinking that we have great men at the top. We once did, but that's been a long time coming. And Everyone sits in the situation room and very seriously sits there and deliberates. It's like, no, this stupidity is actually how our entire government is run and has been for a long time. Put B2 up there on the screen. It's possible that Mike Waltz could not be long for this world. Nobody really knows. It says in private meeting, Vance and top advisors suggest Trump oust Waltz. So the tell that JD Actually did tell him to fire Waltz is that, quote, Vance's office did not respond to comment on this. So if he had said it then he would have denied it, right? Or hadn't said it then he would have denied it. Here it was buried down in, at the bottom. But that's a classic little Washington way in whether you can tell if something is actually true or not inside. Apparently both jd, Susie Wiles and who else in here said that they wanted to fire. So basically the top advisors for Donald Trump, oh, Sergio Gore, who is the top personnel official at the White House PPO director. All of them said, sir, you should fire him. He clearly is leaking, he's lying and he has committed like a very basic act of appearing like an idiot. It's just incompetence. It's not something. And Trump is like, yeah, but I don't wanna give Jeffrey Goldberg a scalp. It's like that is the priority in his mind. And it's not the foreign policy view. It's not anything else. It's just the fact is, is that he doesn't wanna appear as if he's giving too much away to the liberal media and its calls for.

[Krystal]

And he specifically hates Goldberg over the suckers and losers story.

[Sagar]

The suckers and losers story, that's right, yeah. I mean, I read an article this morning, actually. Let's go and put that one up there on the screen. B5, please. Just so you guys can see from B5 here, Mike Wallace is losing support inside the White House. What they point out is that his position is tenuous. Trump has apparently been furious with him. But, and this was my big takeaway is that he's like on the phone with his advisors. Trump says that he does not want to recreate the stories of his first term and Willie Nillery firing people and having personnel issues. And so in this way though, this is where the stupidity of it comes in. You are actively keeping someone in place who absolutely deserves to be fired just to avoid the story of somebody leaving. And they think that it would have been a cascading effect. I couldn't disagree more. The fact is, is that Waltz's lies. And then the insistence that no classified information was shared is actually what made the story 10 times worse. If they had just come out the day afterwards and like National Security Advisor Walsh offered his resignation this morning to the President. The President has accepted it and he wishes him well. It was obviously a mistake. The National Security Advisor takes full responsibility. I genuinely think the story would have gone away. But all the stupidity of it, they can't. They really believe that by going on the offense constantly that they can just survive these things. But my point is about survive to what end? To keep a neocon leaker in his job just so that you don't own the Atlantic. It's like. But you know the other irony here, Nobody's getting owned more than anybody who doesn't want to go to war with Iran. Like Jeffrey Goldberg is actually succeeding in keeping somebody like Mike Waltz in his job. If you decide to own him by not firing him, okay, good luck to you.

[Krystal]

Yeah. And I don't think this is gonna put Mike Waltz off of leaking future things to Jeffrey Goldberg either.

[Sagar]

Attico there are ideological.

[Krystal]

Goldberg has gone out of his way to try to protect Waltz.

[Sagar]

Absolutely.

[Krystal]

The fact that he hasn't already pulled up like, here's another picture and be with. Here's our chats. Here's the other things that he sent me. You wanna say, buddy, that you don't know who I am. Here are the receipts, here is the proof. The fact he hasn't done that is a incredible kindness to Mike Waltz because that actually would pull the pin on him if it was shown and Trump believed that they were in regular or semi regular communication. I think that would pull the pin on Mike Waltz in terms of his future within the Trump administration. But he's not doing that. He's just saying it's not true. We do know each other. My phone number is in his phone. Because my number is in his phone. Even with regard to how he handled the release of this getting out of the chat to begin with, then he initially doesn't want to actually release the details, which proved that this was clearly classified information. That's the other thing that is so dishonest. Pretending like these war plans or attack plans as they wanna say this isn't classified information is also so insulting to anyone who has a brain and knows even the first thing about how Washington works and how much of this information is classified. But Goldberg did his best to try to protect these guys and they just forced his hand at every single turn. So I was gonna mention there was, to your point Zakhar about how they're handling this so differently than the treatment of any other lower level federal government employee. There was a DHS staffer that accidentally included a reporter on some details of forthcoming ICE raids. And it was a much lower level screw up in terms of the consequences. And that DHS staffer was immediately put on leave and had their classification threatened.

[Sagar]

Yeah, good.

[Krystal]

That's. It was, look, you messed up and now you're gonna be out of the job and you are not gonna have access to this sort of classified intelligence again. But for Mike Waltz, because he doesn't. Cuz Trump doesn't like Jeffrey Goldberg. He's hanging in there. Now, I will say, I think maybe if down the line, if he screws up again and there's some other excuse to get rid of him, I do think that he's a little tenuous at this point. I think that's what you could say. But no, the handling of this has been incredible. And it is also crazy to me that it is kind of the biggest Trump, given everything that has happened in the Foreign Alien Enemies act and the, the economic crashes and all of these, the roundups on college campuses. Everything that's been done and this is the thing that has really broken through. Because it's a clown show. Yeah, it's just a clown show.

[Sagar]

That's it. That's right. Look, all of those are substantive stories of which people. What's the normal response from somebody who doesn't know a ton about it? Oh, I don't know that much about it. Or something like that. That seems complicated. People inherently have a reversion to what? To controversy or to something that seems like very complicated. But with this. Yeah, there's no complication. Finally here I just wanted to show you in terms of what it looks like for the people who are out there trying to defend this, this is the best that they've got. Some idiotic what about ism? That again, just deeply insults your intelligence. Here's Greg Gotfeld. Let's take a listen. Listen. And we were all smeared for speaking the truth that was clearly on display for years. And now these same jackasses are telling us that the Signal app story is a grave concern. When they hid the fact that Biden was literally a concern for the grave. A little turnabout in language. All right, I liked it. There has to be a penalty for this cover up. The scandal isn't that they elected a vegetable. It's that journalists knew it and refused to act like journalists, even as the facts got worse. And that Penalty should be a complete loss of credibility. Not just now, but forever. The rest of us, from Trump on down to his supporters, have earned a free punch. Meaning every time they shout scandal, we get to hit him with ridicule. I mean, you expect us to care about some group chat regarding a successful strike against terrorists after gaslighting us about a senile old man for. For four years? You. Yeah, that's the guess that they've got. Oh, you gaslighted us. So now we're going to gaslight you.

[Adam]

Right.

[Krystal]

We get a free punch, we get to not care about the scandal.

[Sagar]

So you just know there's a bunch of boomers out there eating that up.

[Krystal]

I was getting cheers in the audience. I also love a successful attack. By what measure? How was this a success other than the bomb went boom? Okay, congratulations. Guess what? You accomplished literally nothing.

[Sagar]

Yeah, that's what counts for success in Washington.

[Krystal]

Yeah, apparently.

[Adam]

Does this podcast make you happy? Of course it does. That's why you're here. But it only comes out once a week. For happiness. Every night. You need Adam and Eve.

[Sagar]

Yes.

[Adam]

I'm talking about sex toys. It's cool. It's cool. You have earbuds in, right? Adam and Eve, America's most trusted source for adult products, has been making people very happy for over 50 years with thousands of toys for both men and women. Just go to AdamAndEve.com now and enter code IHEART for 50% off. Almost any one item, plus free discreet shipping. That's AdamAndEve.com code IHEART for 50% OFF.

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[Sagar]

Let'S get to Trump 3.0.

[Krystal]

Yeah. So apparently in this interview with NBC News, Trump made it quite clear that he plans on seeking a third term in office. Let's put this up on the screen. Kristen Welker was doing the interview here. She said, are you joking about this? He says, I'm not joking when asked to clarify, I'm not. It is far too early to think about it. When asked whether he's been presented with plans to allow him to seek a third term, Trump said, there are methods which you could do it. He also was asked whether that could involve running J.D. vance and then him basically like sort of taking over for JD Vance and as they said, a possible scenario in which Vice President J.D. vance would run for office, then pass the role to Trump. Trump responded that that's one method, but there are others too. Asked to share another method, Trump simply responded, no. So Steve Bannon has been out there saying similar things, seeming to. I mean, he has said quite clearly that they're going to figure out a way to get Trump to run for a third term. The constitutional language is as clear cut as it could possibly be. There is literally no ambiguity there. Did you pull it up? You want to read it for us.

[Sagar]

To read it for everybody? I was looking at it this morning just to get the exact text. No person shall be elected to the office of President more than twice. No person who has held the office of President or acted as President for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of President more than once. This article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this article was proposed by Congress shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President or acting as President during the term within which this article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term. So the background is 22nd amendment was passed Congress in 1947, was ratified by the states in 1951. 1952 is the first presidential election election under the new rule under President Dwight D. Eisenhower, who subsequently was elected to two terms. And the background of it, as we have discussed here, the 22nd Amendment was in my opinion, a severe overreaction to FDR seeking the unprecedented third and to fourth terms. The Congress at the time was very upset at how much power FDR had accrued under his, what, 12 or so years while he was in office. They wanted to make sure that it never happened again and to try and to ratify the two term norm that was set by George Washington actually into law. But now it is the law of the land. It is the Constitution of the United States. I was thinking, you know, even in terms of how that whole like JD Would run and you could hand it off to him, as the Constitution makes clear, no person who has been elected President twice. Twice can serve again as President. So he would actually not be in the technical line of succession.

[Krystal]

Right?

[Sagar]

Yeah.

[Krystal]

So you could not even constitutionally put Trump as like the VP on the ticket and then have JD Step down, et cetera.

[Sagar]

Well, even if Trump stepped down today and handed it over to JD he still would never be elected or be eligible because it says no person twice elected. The definition is ratified victory by the Electoral College, which has now happened twice.

[Krystal]

Let's go ahead and listen to some of the ways that Steve Bannon has been talking about this, because I mean, I have been taking seriously this possibility for a while because Bannon has been pretty consistently talking about it. And there was even at cpac, there was a whole booth set up there about we want Trump to be our Red Caesar, we want him to be able to serve a third term, et cetera. And listen, this is a man who, when he did lose the election in 2020, refused to accept defeat. He did not want to give up power. And so I don't think any of us should expect that he's going to be willingly accept giving up power this time around as well. So I think you have to take seriously now that you have Bannon and you have Trump being quite clear that he intends to seek a third term. You have to take it seriously and start thinking through the scenarios of how he could even theoretically try to accomplish this goal. With all that being said, let's go ahead and take a listen to C3 Steve Bannon talking about this possibility.

[Sagar]

I'm a firm believer that President Trump will run and win again in 2028. So I've already endorsed Trump. A man like this comes along once every century, if we're lucky. We've got him now. He's on fire, and I'm a huge supporter. Want to see him again in 2028. And obviously, anybody who doesn't like what you say but judges is at a function of a lack of intelligence. Doesn't know anything about you. I don't make that mistake. You're a smart guy.

[Krystal]

You know, he's term limited.

[Sagar]

How do you think he gets another term? We're working on it. I think we'll have a couple of alternatives. Let's say that we'll see what the definition of term. We'll see what the definition of term living is. All right, well. So you're talking about litigating this issue Because I don't want people to listen to our interview and say, Bannon's cooking up an insurrection. Bannon is cooking up. You know what I mean?

[Krystal]

I want people to get a straight.

[Sagar]

Take on where you're headed is, what are you suggesting? Chris, as you know, I've had. I've had greater long shots than this when we. We supported President Trump after the election. I realize you don't believe the election in 2020 is stolen.

[Krystal]

We do.

[Sagar]

We fervently believe that. We're not prepared to talk about it publicly, but in a couple of months, I think we will be. But you are not suggesting revolution or overthrow or anything that people would condemn. Chris, we just want one of the biggest sweeping victories. We're in the middle of a 1932 type realignment. If we can continue on and continue to have populist policies, populist nationalist policies, we have African American coming to our side.

[Krystal]

So, again, I mean, I guess they're gonna try to come up with some sort of, like, cockamamie legal theory. But even that, because the language is so clear, I'm not sure how they would do it. You know, I have been thinking about this. One of the things that I did consider is that you, whether it's J.D. vance or Don Jr. You run someone who basically is like a puppet figure. I mean, this is kind of what Putin did in Russia, right?

[Sagar]

Oh, like a Medvedev.

[Krystal]

Like a Medvedev. And it's like, okay, he's technically the president, but Trump is the one who's really pulling the strings. And if that's the plan, then it sort of makes sense that he withheld his support from J.D. vance as his successor, because J.D. vance has to prove himself, that he will be a total willing Compliant puppet for Trump.

[Sagar]

Well, if that's the case, you should just go ahead and pick your son Donald, because no self respecting person I.

[Krystal]

Think and maybe that's why he isn't getting behind J.D. i consider that possibility. I also thought through like Trump has been, they've been threatening the courts and trying to pressure and bully them and defying I would say some of the court orders. They have been using the weight of the federal government to punish states for doing things that they don't want the states to do. Launching investigations, withholding federal funding. You see the same playbook with regard to media outlets, with regard to law firms, with regard to universities. You could use some of that pressure to, let's say okay, Trump runs the Republican primary, he wins the nomination, then it comes down to our state's gonna put him on the ballot. It you could use some of that pressure to try to coerce states to go along with this. But I don't know, my mind is not devious enough to come up with the scenario of how this ends up working out for him. But like I said, I think you have to take it seriously given that this is not a man who willingly gives up power and he's saying quite openly. And I think one thing we've Learned about Trump 2.0 is the things that he says he's gonna do and many things beyond that he is entirely serious about.

[Sagar]

I think it's possible. I also think that his ego is just so fragile at the idea of having to pass on power. And all presidents who are two termed struggle with this, right? Like Reagan famously, he's like, he didn't particularly love HW and he didn't really want a hand the reigns over. His wife wouldn't even give him a tour or whatever. These people, psychologically these people are crazy. I mean we really need to think about it. And so that's what it takes to be able to get up to this level. So for Trump, I'm beginning to see now the reason why he doesn't wanna endorse JD or Don Jr. Or anybody is because the idea that you could hand over his life's accomplishment of getting elected President of the United States twice or three times, I guess in his mind over to somebody else, it's just so psychologically wounding because it's subservient position and it's one that he correctly views as when you do that, you no longer are the kingmaker. Right? There is a transition there where whoever he endorses then becomes the preeminent head of the party and you lose a lot of your control and of your power. That is ultimately what I think drives him. As you've said too, though, I mean, I think that, look, if we were gonna say realistic, the way that this would ever happen. Let's put C4 up there on the screen where there's been a amendment to the amendment that has now been introduced. And it says they introduced a House resolution to amend the Constitution to allow a president to be elected for up to but no more than three terms. The language of the proposed amendment reads as follows. No person shall be elected to the office of President more than three times, nor be elected to any additional term after being elected to two consecutive terms. And no person who has held the office of president or acted as president for more than two years of a term to which a president was elected president shall be elected to the office of President more than twice. Which basically means what? It means Obama and Clinton and Bush could not run for a third term.

[Krystal]

But that Trump, Obama specifically is the target there. That's true. That Trump could beat Obama.

[Sagar]

See, I don't know. I think Obama's hold is gone. I think his 20 year psyop in the American people has finally ended just because of that Democratic where people are fed up with him. Michelle's doing her dumb ass podcast about whether you should. What was it? Whether you should recline your seat on a commercial airliner. Lady, you have never been on a commercial airliner for the last 20 years. Do not lecture us.

[Krystal]

Just as a digression, our guests that we're having on, Jonathan Allen, Amy Parnes, great reporters, both of them. One of the tidbits they have in their book is that, remember when Obama was gonna endorse Kamala and it took a long time and he did that weird scripted video, whatever. Apparently one of the requirements is Michelle did not want to be in the video. Wow, that's kind of interesting, right? I mean, there's a lot of rumors swirling about how their marriage is going, et cetera. So I don't know. That kind of fueled. It was like, made me think about that, but then also made me think about like. I guess she just like, doesn't really like Kamala maybe too. I don't know.

[Sagar]

But that's definitely possible. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, to be honest, if you read both of their books, I have no idea how either of them is still in that marriage. It's totally. I mean, it's just one of those where he literally is running for office and she's Like, I don't want you to do this. And he just does it anyway. And you're like, okay. I mean, she's like, I don't wanna be first lady. He's like, okay, suck it up. I have no idea. Why would you stick it out? I don't care.

[Krystal]

On the other hand, you had to know this was who you were marrying.

[Sagar]

I guess, yeah. I don't know. You know, it's one of those where she's like, okay, then I'm just gonna move in my mom. And he's like, okay, listen, don't judge. I guess, whatever. But if you read between the lines of. But you really should read the chapters of his rise in his book and in her book. And if you read that, you're like, this is nuts. This is a total digress.

[Krystal]

Yeah. But anyway, to get back to the cool point here, I think Trump is going to try to run for a third term. I don't know how. It's. I don't know how. I don't know what argument he's gonna make. I know Republicans will go along with whatever it is that he says and try to make the case. I. They haven't been able to figure out what exactly strategy they'll deploy. Apparently they haven't figured out what strategy they'll deploy, but I 100% think that he is serious about this. He doesn't wanna give up power and he doesn't wanna be a lame duck. You know, midterms, they're gonna get shellacked in the midterms, like they already know it. I mean, they already know they're gonna lose the House at the least, and it could be a bloodbath. We're gonna get a little bit of a glimpse at that this week of just, like, how bad it could end up being for them. And if there's a recession, if there's a stock market crash, all of those sorts of things. So midterms are likely to go poorly for them. And then you've got Trump on his way out. This is an old man too, by the way. We forget he'll be, I think, 82 in 2028 if he were to try to run again, etc. But yeah, you could imagine Republicans starting to agree, maybe create a little bit of space and think about who's going to be next and start positioning themselves and start trying to make the break, et cetera. I mean, you still see Ron DeSantis doing a little bit of this already down in Florida. He doesn't want any of that. He wants to keep a firm grip on power. Bannon has also said he believes Trump will be arrested and imprisoned once he's out of office if he doesn't run for a third term again. Trump probably believes that as well, so he'll feel it is existential, too. And so I do think they'll try to pull it off and they'll use whatever tricks in the bag, legal, illegal, constitutional, unconstitutional, moral, ethical, unethical or otherwise that they can to try to accomplish that goal.

[Sagar]

Look, I've said before, I want the 22nd Amendment to go away. I think it's anti Democratic. It's one of those where, yes, as horrific as it may seem for many of our liberal viewers, it doesn't make any sense to term limit somebody if that's the person who is being democratically ratified. You also should remember that if Obama had been allowed to run, he almost certainly, at the very least, it would not have been Hillary Clinton. Would he have beat Trump in 2016? I don't know. Okay. Nobody will know for sure. I think he probably would have had a better chance, I think, than Hillary.

[Krystal]

Clinton, because it was pretty close. It was close and Hillary was a horrendous candidate.

[Sagar]

Yeah.

[Krystal]

And if you just think about Obama was still popular.

[Sagar]

If you just think about it, I mean, there's actually an argument to be made that we would be living now in the last term of the Clinton administration if there had been no 22nd amendment. Maybe not. Would have, you know, would it have been the best? But we wouldn't have been in Iraq, so maybe it would have been. Okay, true. You know, it's like, Listen, the 22nd Amendment has cost us a lot of really stupid presidents or has actually, sorry, given us a lot of very stupid presidents. Bush is almost certainly 100% a result of that. And the yo yo effect of that is likely due to the 22nd Amendment. I mean, even if you go back to 1940, if FDR had decided not to run, run for his third term, we could have been in a hole in a very, very bad situation, which was his argument there at the time. So anyway, I democratically am very against the 22nd Amendment. I mean, we don't have term limits in Congress. We're gonna have term limits for the President. It's preposterous. It was just obviously done to screw over the legacy of fdr.

[Krystal]

Yeah, that's true.

[Sagar]

Yeah.

[Krystal]

No, I mean, I have a thoroughly unprincipled position on this, which is I also, in theory, won the 22nd amendment. This guy then beat him, this guy's gotta go. We gotta be done with this man.

[Sagar]

You can beat him then.

[Krystal]

One last thing. Put up C5 on the screen. So you know the public, you gotta give them credit, at the time when the media was all like, Biden, he's fit as a fiddle and sharp as attack, they were like, come on. And a majority here, also like a very clear majority. I think those who think that Trump is not gonna run for a second term, it's like 30 some percent, but in any case, 52% are like, yeah, he's gonna try. Yeah, he's gonna try. And I think that's probably where the smart money is. He's out and out saying it. So I don't know why we wouldn't take him seriously at this point given that he's definitely met many of the things that he has said here coming into the second term.

[Sagar]

Well, we'll see. I will enjoy tracking this. My hope is that they are able to pass a complete if that they are able to amend the Constitution and to finally repeal this amendment. In fact, the trade I'll take is that we'll bring back prohibition and then we'll take this one away. So that's what we should do.

[Krystal]

I do not.

[Sagar]

The biggest mistake, the biggest mistake we.

[Krystal]

Ever made is not gonna take you.

[Sagar]

Up on that one. Prohibition. Yeah, that's right. This country's full of drunks. But you know, whatever, all right, you guys will get over it just like they did in prohibition. Some people will figure it out and the overall drinking rate will go down. It was better for all of you. Sorry, it's true. Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. And every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn [e-mail] credit card based on the February 2024 Nielsen report.

[Adam]

Does this podcast make you happy? Of course it does. That's why you're here. But it only comes out once a week for happiness, every night. You need Adam and Eve.

[Sagar]

Yes.

[Adam]

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