3/3/25: Trump Doubles Down On Ukraine Minerals, GOP Rage Quit Town Halls, Bill Maher Sneers At Trump Protests

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar – Episode Summary Episode Title: Trump Doubles Down On Ukraine Minerals, GOP Rage Quit Town Halls, Bill Maher Sneers At Trump Protests
Release Date: March 3, 2025
Hosts: Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti
Publisher: iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction

In this episode of Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar, hosts Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti delve into the latest developments surrounding former President Donald Trump's ongoing involvement in Ukraine, the mounting frustrations within the GOP leading to disrupted town halls, and cultural critiques from Bill Maher regarding recent Trump-related protests. The discussion is framed against a backdrop of geopolitical tensions and domestic political upheaval, offering listeners an in-depth analysis of the current political landscape.

Trump’s Mineral Deal and Confrontation with Zelensky

The episode opens with a detailed examination of the contentious Oval Office meeting between Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. Krystal and Saagar dissect the fallout from this encounter, where Trump's push for a mineral rights deal intensified tensions.

Notable Quote:
Krystal Ball (@04:33): “Zelensky wants everything that you just outlined… that’s like the point you made about how American boots would essentially have to be on the ground for a security guarantee, the economic colonization. Zelensky wants that.”

Key Points:

• Economic Colonization: Krystal criticizes the proposed mineral rights deal as a form of economic colonization benefiting Trump and his billionaire associates, rather than serving Ukraine’s interests.
• Security Guarantees: The discussion highlights Zelensky’s insistence on robust security guarantees from the U.S., which clash with Trump’s transactional approach.
• Political Manipulation: Saagar and Krystal argue that the confrontation was orchestrated to serve Trump’s interests, using Ukraine’s resources to exert economic and geopolitical influence while avoiding direct military involvement.

Political Reactions and GOP Frustrations

The hosts analyze the broader political reactions to Trump’s actions, focusing on the GOP’s internal struggles and the erosion of trust among its ranks.

Notable Quote:
Krystal Ball (@09:26): “The White House has become an arm of the Kremlin every single day… pretending as if Ukraine started this war. That's essentially saying that Poland invaded Germany at the beginning of World War II.”

Key Points:

• Blaming Ukraine: Krystal accuses the Trump administration of attempting to rewrite history by shifting blame to Ukraine for the ongoing conflict, paralleling it to historical false narratives.
• Republican Disillusionment: The GOP faces significant frustration as traditional conservative values clash with Trump’s unorthodox and self-serving policies.
• Economic Interests vs. National Security: The mineral deal is portrayed as prioritizing the financial gains of the elite over genuine national security concerns, deepening partisan divides.

Public Protests and GOP Town Halls

The episode shifts focus to the public’s reaction, showcasing widespread protests against GOP members and Trump’s policies, particularly highlighting disruptions at town halls and public events.

Notable Quote:
Emily Jashinsky (@40:42): “But if you know anything about politics… it is damn near impossible to get people to show up to things. And so if people are willing to take time out of their day to go to this town hall and yell at their congressman… that is representative of a real energy that exists out there that is quite consequential.”

Key Points:

• Vermont Protests: Following the Oval Office incident, protests erupted in Vermont targeting J.D. Vance, with demonstrators branding him a “Putin’s puppet” and condemning his ties to Trump.
• Town Hall Disruptions: Republican town halls have been subject to heated confrontations, with incidents like Senator Roger Marshall abruptly ending his session amid boos and chants from attendees.
• Impact on GOP Visibility: These disruptions highlight growing grassroots activism and dissatisfaction within the Republican base, posing challenges for GOP leaders in maintaining support and addressing constituent concerns effectively.

Bill Maher’s Commentary on Trump Protests

Bill Maher’s perspectives on the Trump-related protests are discussed, offering a critique of the Democratic Party’s handling of grassroots movements and identity politics.

Notable Quote:
Emily Jashinsky (@59:53): “That made me want to kill myself… It is the neoliberal wing of the party as represented by Hillary Clinton… Tony Blair is horrible… give me a break.”

Key Points:

• Maher’s Critique: Bill Maher, along with panelists like Fareed Zakaria and Rahm Emanuel, criticized the nature of recent protests, labeling them as ineffective and out of touch with broader public concerns.
• Democratic Strategy Flaws: The hosts argue that the Democratic Party’s focus on identity politics and neoliberal policies has alienated working-class voters, hindering effective resistance against Republican strategies.
• Need for Alternative Vision: Krystal and Saagar stress that Democrats must present a clear, practical alternative to GOP and Trump’s agenda to regain voter trust and support, rather than relying on backlash against Trump’s actions alone.

Implications for U.S. Politics

Krystal and Saagar explore the broader implications of these developments for the upcoming elections and the overall political climate in the United States.

Notable Quote:
Krystal Ball (@67:17): “What is the point of this other than a racket for consultants and for politicians to get their life-like attention and be able to insider trade?”

Key Points:

• Election Strategy: The GOP’s current strategy, centered around economic colonization and alignment with authoritarian figures, may backfire as voters seek genuine solutions to economic and security issues.
• Public Sentiment: Polls indicate a growing discontent with Trump and his allies, but without a strong, positive alternative, Democrats risk maintaining the status quo rather than driving meaningful change.
• Future of the GOP: The internal discord and public backlash could lead to significant shifts within the Republican Party, potentially opening the door for new leadership or further polarization.

Conclusion

In this episode, Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti provide a comprehensive analysis of Donald Trump’s ongoing influence in Ukraine, the resultant GOP frustrations manifesting in disrupted town halls and public protests, and the critical need for the Democratic Party to redefine its strategy. The discussion underscores the intricate interplay between economic interests, national security, and grassroots activism, highlighting the challenges and opportunities facing both major political parties as they navigate a deeply polarized landscape.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Krystal Ball (@04:33): “…Zelensky wants everything that you just outlined… economic colonization.”
• Krystal Ball (@09:26): “The White House has become an arm of the Kremlin every single day… pretending as if Ukraine started this war.”
• Emily Jashinsky (@40:42): “…if people are willing to take time out of their day to go to this town hall and yell at their congressman… that is representative of a real energy that exists out there that is quite consequential.”
• Emily Jashinsky (@59:53): “…it is the neoliberal wing of the party as represented by Hillary Clinton… Tony Blair is horrible… give me a break.”
• Krystal Ball (@67:17): “What is the point of this other than a racket for consultants and for politicians to get their life-like attention and be able to insider trade?”

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This summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and conclusions presented in the episode, providing a coherent narrative for those who haven’t listened to the podcast.

Transcript

[Ryan Grim]

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[Krystal Ball]

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[Ryan Grim]

Hey guys, Sagar and Krystal here.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.

[Ryan Grim]

This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.

[Emily Jashinsky]

So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad, free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

[Krystal Ball]

We need your help to build the.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Future of independent news media and we.

[Ryan Grim]

Hope to see [e-mail].

[Emily Jashinsky]

Good morning everybody. Welcome to Breaking Points. Emily, Great to see you my friend.

[Krystal Ball]

It's great to be here. I was really focused on my Twitter feed when we started so that's why.

[Emily Jashinsky]

I was hunched over focus getting the latest so we can Bring you all of the breaking news updates. Sagar is actually recording with Andrew Schultz for the Flagrant podcast, so that's why he is out today. But bunch of announcements to get to. Okay, tomorrow we are not having our normal show. Instead we are doing a live stream for the State of the Union, which I cannot believe is actually tomorrow.

[Krystal Ball]

It's not technically the State of the Union, right?

[Emily Jashinsky]

It's the joint address of Congress, whatever, but it's the State of the Union and I, yeah, I've been in kind of denial about it. Like it just really, there's been so much going on, it snuck up on me.

[Krystal Ball]

It's crazy. But we'll all be here, gang. Will all be here.

[Emily Jashinsky]

That is right. We will all be here. 8pm Eastern, we'll start the livestream. I think the President is supposed to speak around nine. So we'll talk about whatever's going on beforehand, preview the speech, listen to the speech, react on the other end as we normally do. In addition, another big personal announcement. Happy birthday to my baby girl ella, who is 17.

[Krystal Ball]

Amazing.

[Emily Jashinsky]

I am in total, complete denial about this as well.

[Krystal Ball]

I'm in denial that you have a 17 year old and look this amazing.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Oh, stop, stop.

[Krystal Ball]

Can't be real. Crystal, stop.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Trust me. I feel every, every day and then some of my age, but I am. Yeah, she's beautiful, Amazing. So proud of her. And y incredible thing. And one last thing before we jump into the news. Congratulations to the filmmakers behind no Other Land who won the Oscar for best documentary last night. Documentary by an Israeli and a Palestinian about life in the occupied West Bank. Incredible speech that they gave talking about the need for peace and to coexist and calling for effectively a one state solution with no supremacy, decrying ethnic cleansing. You know, huge applause at the Oscars over this. And the crazy thing about it is, okay, this is now an Oscar award winning documentary. Could not find a U.S. distributor because this was too controversial, quote unquote.

[Krystal Ball]

I wonder what will happen now actually.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah. You think they'll get picked up?

[Krystal Ball]

It's possible. I mean it's kind of late, but it's possible. I mean people sense there's money to be to be made. If anyone's curious about the film, which people are.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Maybe capitalism will prevail here.

[Krystal Ball]

That's right.

[Emily Jashinsky]

In the interest of the greater.

[Krystal Ball]

But all of your hopes in capital.

[Emily Jashinsky]

I don't know what else we have to put our hopes in at this point. All right, lots of news to get to. Latest fallen from Ukraine, protests all over about various things including against JD Vance on his ski trip. Elon is attacking Social Security as a Ponzi scheme. On the Joe Rogan podcast, Trump is announcing a digital asset reserve that is just a way to funnel taxpayer dollars to crypto billionaires. One of the most disgusting things I've truly ever seen. Dems have a brilliant new plan to fight back, which entails going even harder in the direction of big donors and sidelining grassroots donors all together. Unbelievable that this is what's being proposed. Bill Burr is fighting with Ben Shapiro. That's an interesting one. Over his comments regarding Luigi Mangione. And Israel is quitting the ceasefire deal and announcing a new blockade and siege of Gaza. Obvious collective punishment and war crime with the full backing of the United States government. Jeremy Scahill is going to join us to break all of that down.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. Excited to have Jeremy here.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah, he's incredible. And dropsight. I say this last week. It is incredible how quickly they became essential. Seriously, you know, I really rely on them for their foreign affairs reporting, in particular, specifically with regard to Israel and Gaza. But they have done such an incredible job standing that outlet up.

[Krystal Ball]

And of course, neither of us is surprised because we know Ryan.

[Emily Jashinsky]

We know Ryan. Yes.

[Krystal Ball]

They're so talented.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Exactly right. All right, so let's get into the latest. With regard to Ukraine, I'm sure you guys have all seen at this point, the dust up in the oval office between J.D. vance and Trump attacking Volodymyr Zelensky. Of course, the President of Ukraine. Go ahead and take a listen to. We had a bunch of politicians on the Sunday show, from Marco Rubio to Senator Chris Murphy, who were reacting to this chain of events. Let's go ahead and listen to that. Heard from President Zelensky. He said he does not think that he owes President Trump an apology for what happened inside the Oval Office today.

[Krystal Ball]

Do you feel otherwise?

[Ryan Grim]

I do. I do. Because you guys don't see. You guys only saw the end. You saw what happened today. You don't see all the things that led up to this. So let me explain. The president's been very clear. He campaigned on this. He thinks this war should have never started. He believes, and I agree, that had he been president, it never would have happened. Now here we are. He's trying to bring an end to this conflict. We've explained very clearly what our plan is here, which is we want to get the Russians to a negotiating table. We want to explore whether peace is possible. They understand this. They also understand that this agreement that was supposed to be signed today was Supposed to be an agreement that binds America economically to Ukraine, which to me, as I've explained and I think the President alluded to today, is a security guarantee in its own way, because we're involved. It's not us, it's our interests. That was all explained. That was all understood. And nonetheless, for the last 10 days, in every engagement we've had with the Ukrainians, there's been complications in getting that point across, including the public statements that President Zelensky has made. But they insisted on coming to D.C. this agreement could have been signed five days ago, but they insisted on coming to Washington. And there was a very, and should have been a very clear understanding. Don't come here and create a scenario where you're going to start lecturing us about how diplomacy isn't going to work. President Zelensky took it in that direction, and it ended in a predictable outcome as a result. It's unfortunate. That wasn't supposed to be this way, but that's the path he chose. And I think, frankly, you know, sends his country backwards in regards to achieving peace, which is what President Trump wants at the end of the day, is for this war to end. The person who walked away from the table yesterday was President Zelensky. I mean, look, I've been involved in a lot of bilateral meetings like this with heads of state and. And dignitaries. There's a certain protocol to these events. But for him to act as he did was rather shocking to everyone. I mean, President Zelensky, instead of showing gratitude, he interrupted and berated his hosts at a very perilous time for his country. He should have been anxious, I think, to enter into this agreement. Think of it. The mineral rights agreement would be a win win for both countries. It would give us an economic interest there. And everyone around the world knows that America will always defend our interest and our people. The challenge is now we're at a stalemate. This is a world war, like trench warfare, and it is best to be able to get to at least a pause. And what I hear President Trump saying over and over again is we need to get to a stop in fighting, find some resolution. I understand Zelinsky is rightfully concerned that Putin has violated every single agreement he's ever signed and that he can't be trusted. He's looking for some kind of security guarantees, which the French in the UK Are saying they want to put troops in, but we need to get these two folks at the table, get to some kind of resolution to something that may look like north and South Korea for a long time and have a line where people are looking at each other, but not an active war.

[Krystal Ball]

The White House has become an arm of the Kremlin every single day. You hear from the national security advisor, from the President, United States, from his entire national security team, Kremlin talking points. For the last week, the White House has been pretending as if Ukraine started this war. That's essentially saying that Poland invaded Germany.

[Emily Jashinsky]

At the beginning of World War II.

[Krystal Ball]

There are still facts in this world. And the fact is this, Vladimir Putin.

[Ryan Grim]

Is a brutal dictator.

[Krystal Ball]

Russia started this war.

[Ryan Grim]

And the entire pretext for that meeting.

[Krystal Ball]

Yesterday was an attempt to rewrite history.

[Ryan Grim]

In order to sign a deal with Putin that hands Putin Ukraine.

[Krystal Ball]

That is disastrous for US national security. That means that Russia, China will be on the march. Putin may not stop. America may be at war with a nuclear power.

[Emily Jashinsky]

So there you go, a little sampling of the political reaction. You know, obviously I have a lot of thoughts on this, which I'll go ahead and offer a few of them since we haven't had a chance to react yet. I mean, it won't surprise you that none of the Democrat or Republican views there really represent my view. You know, I do actually think that this was a sort of a planned ambush of Zelensky because I think it's preposterous to imagine that J.D. vance would be out there freelancing on his own. Like, I don't think he does anything without Donald Trump giving him the nudge and the go ahead. But whether or not you think this was like a planned ambush, it was definitely a show in that it is not reflective of the reality, which is that Ukraine and us in this war have basically been the same entity. Right? The US has pushed Ukraine to continue this war. We have used Ukraine prior to this war as our own geopolitical plaything. So that's why when Vance and Trump are insisting, oh, you have to thank us and you need to apologize, like, thank us for what? For continuing to drag you through years of this war at massive cost of lives and death and destruction in the country of Ukraine. And this is not to let Zelensky off the hook, who no one should be hero worshiping this guy. Like, actually, the things that J.D. van said about the conscription and pulling guys off, that is true, but we're the superpower in this situation. We wanted to use Ukraine to push back against Russia and we failed. And now we are left trying to figure out what to do next and trying to pick up the pieces. What the Trump administration wants to do is basically Economic colonization. They want this extractive mineral rights deal, which, by the way, doesn't mean that you are going to benefit from whatever extraction is occurring here. It's Trump's billionaire buddies who would get these deals, who would profit from exploiting this vassal state and effective colony of the United States of America. But it would be US Lives that would be on the line to defend those economic interests. That's the deal that they're trying to put in place. And by the way, Emily, it wouldn't surprise me like this was, you know, this was a big thing blow up. And I don't wanna say that it's not gonna have an impact. It might, but it's also very possible, it doesn't at all, that they continue to go forward with this economic colonization deal for Trump and his buddies to cash in. Because as we're gonna talk to you about the, like, crypto reserve bullshit, the core ideological project of the Trump administration at this point just seems to be theft, Elon, Stealing contracts and just like plundering the government at will. Going around the world saying, we want Greenland's minerals, we want the Panama Canal back, we want Canada, we want Gaza, we want the Ukrainian minerals deal. The crypto, I mean, that thing is just insane. Just like funneling taxpayer dollars in so that a bunch of crypto billionaires can sell their bag and dump this trash, like, worthless thing on the American public. That is the core ethos of the Trump administration. And so it would not surprise me at all if they continue forward with this. It's not even just rare earth Minerals. It's like 50% of the entire country that we're pushing this deal for. So that's kind of my overall reaction here to what happen. But it does drive me sort of insane, this insist, oh, the Ukrainians need to apologize and Zelensky was out of line, et cetera, et cetera. We are so much to blame for the way this has all unfolded. And not just the Biden administration, by the way, where they do have a lot of blame on their shoulders, in particular for blocking those original negotiations that had a shot at securing some sort of a peace here early on. But Trump, in this dialogue, he brags about how he was shipping the Javelins to Ukraine. He was part of this belligerent posture that precipitates this war. And Russia is responsible for their own actions. They should not have invaded. It was an illegal invasion. They have their own imperial project that they are engaged in. But let's not ignore the role that the US has played in Meddling in Ukrainian politics with a coup d'etat, with expansion of NATO, with continuing this belligerent posture that helps to create the conditions that precipitate this war and to just erase all of that and pretend like none of that happened. And Trump himself is not to blame and it's all Zelensky's fault and he's the real aggressor here and he needs to thank us, I think is so disgusting and utterly preposterous.

[Krystal Ball]

So Zelenskyy wants everything that you just outlined, which is like the point you made about how American boots would essentially have to be on the ground for a security guarantee, the, quote, economic colonization. Zelensky wants that. The entire dust up over this deal. We played Chris Murphy just there. Chris Murphy, before Zelensky went into that meeting, was bragging about how Democratic senators had just met with him and encouraged him not to sign. What did he say? Like a false security deal? Something that Chris Murphy tweeted. Because Zelensky doesn't believe that the, quote, economic colonization is enough. He thinks that the United States needs to have like an actual security guarantee. Otherwise Putin will continue to. What's the word that often gets used? Steam role will keep creeping further and further into Ukraine. So the option then for us is either to have an actual boots on the ground security guarantee or some half measure or totally given to Putin. And the options are insane. It's just a complete mess. And it's a mess because of the tack that Zelenskyy and his supporters had wanted. David from, for example, these types of guys have wanted over and over and over again for years. So, I mean, I think the Zelenskyy must apologize stuff is a little precious from like a moral. But from a pragmatic standpoint, what he just did was prolong likely. I mean, I think the deal probably will still go through, but he just prolonged the suffering and the war. It's pretty. This is Zelensky. This is A two. This is him responding. He went on Bret Baer's show right after. I mean, this is a couple hours after he canceled the planned speech. I think it was at the Hudson Institute. And then went straight to the Fox News studio, went through with the bear interview. And this is a clip of Zelenskyy from that.

[Ryan Grim]

So I'm not Hearing from you, Mr. President, a thought that you owe the president an apology. No, I respect president and I respect American people. And if I don't know if I.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Think that we have to be very.

[Ryan Grim]

Open and very honest. And I'm not Sure. That we did something bad. I think maybe sometimes some things we have to discuss out of. Out of media, with all respect to democracy and to a free media, but there are things that. Where we have to understand the position of Ukraine and Ukrainians, and I think that is the most important thing.

[Krystal Ball]

So $100 billion into the war, I just don't think that lands especially well with the American people. I'm not saying, Crystal, that he needs to get on his knees and apologize, though I think pragmatically, if he wanted that deal to go through, he probably would. That's like, you know, $100 billion to the American people. It's like multiple times the annual NASA budget. You know, it's multiple times. It's. At this point, it's over the annual budget of the state of Virginia. Like, it's a lot of money. I get that it's a small percentage of everything that we spend in a given year. But in order to create a political incentive structure, permission structure, for politicians to continue going along with it, and I guess I see what people are saying about the apology, but it doesn't. I don't think we need to be precious about it morally, from a pragmatic standpoint. He immediately started tweeting, we're so thankful for America. We're so thankful for the cooperation of the United States, et cetera, et cetera.

[Emily Jashinsky]

I mean, listen, again, I do think this was a setup, because if you watch the video, like, the thing he said was not everyone's. Oh, he was berating them and lecturing. He just said, listen, guys, like, Putin is not really a person that, like, if you look at the historical track record, this isn't someone you can just take their word for. True. Absolutely true. And then J.D. vance jumps in. You have never said thank you. And you take people on propaganda tours, et cetera, et cetera. I think it was a show. I think it was a show for domestic consumption because they know the base has been trained to have this conflict completely sort of reversed in their head, where Ukraine are the great evil and the great bad guys. And so he knew it would play well with his base and that he would look like a tough guy. And then that gives Trump room to sort of do whatever it is that he ultimately wants to deal and strike whatever deal that he wants to and not face blowback from his base. That's what I really think was going on there. So this insistence, oh, he needs to apologize. Oh, he needs to thank us. I also just have to say on, like, zooming out of what you think about this conflict and these players and how this should all go down and what the geopolitics are, et cetera. I think there was a really visceral human reaction of disgust to the way that these two very powerful individuals were badgering and bullying someone who was there, who speaks English as a second language, who is totally unable to sort of be able to compete in this debate because of the way that that is stacked against the cards are stacked against him in that situation. We have two people, very powerful, berating someone who is just trying to keep up with the language issue. I think there was like a visceral, I mean, it's been interesting to see how vociferous the response has been online. And I think there was just like a visceral ick factor to the way all of that went down.

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[Emily Jashinsky]

The other piece of this that could be consequential is how the Europeans react here. You had Keir Starmer, who seems to be trying to take the lead, to say, all right, well, clearly we cannot rely on the US for anything. Which I think actually that part is good, that they're realizing, listen, these people are really not our allies at this point. We can't count on them whatsoever for a single thing. So he's trying to take the lead. He was on the BBC talking about how he's now talking to France and some others to try to work on some sort of a peace plan that they could present. Let's take a listen to how that went.

[Ryan Grim]

We had quite a long time with President Zelenskyy, then President Macron and President Trump on the phone. We've now agreed that the United Kingdom, along with France and possibly one or two others, will work with Ukraine on a plan to stop the fighting. And then we'll discuss that plan with the United States. So in those calls on Friday night, through the meeting yesterday, into the calls again last night, I think we've got a step in the right direction because as I say, nobody wants to see what happened on Friday. But it's really important that we keep our central focus, which is lasting peace in Ukraine. Nobody wants any More bloodshed.

[Emily Jashinsky]

So we'll see what comes of that. There were all kinds of European leaders that were tweeting out their support of Zelenskyy in the wake of all of these events. Put the next piece up on the screen. You know, I really sort of think that the tension here within the Trump administration comes down to whether they want to just go pure like you know, naked exploitation as they have in so many other arenas, as I was pointing out before with the mineral steel, or whether they want to align with the, you know, right wing authoritarian regime of Russia, which has been is the other like ideological project of the Trump administration is to align the country more with those regimes that are closer to their own ideal ideological valence. And this is interesting to me, sort of point in the direction of they're gonna probably continue in the direction of the minerals deal, but we'll see. Cuz you never know with Trump. He is quoting someone else who said now Zelensky will have no choice but to back down and accept Trump's terms. But here's the genius part. Trump is actually protecting Ukraine without dragging the US into war. By negotiating a mineral deal, Trump ensures Americans will be involved in Ukraine's mining industry. That prevents Russia from launching an invasion because attacking Ukraine would mean endangering American lives. Something that would force the US to respond, then goes on. Trump played both sides like a master chess player. In the end, Zelensky will have no choice but to concede, blah, blah, blah. But to me, the fact that Trump took the time to put this out on Truth Social, indicating that, okay, the idea here is to go forward with this rare earth mineral deal, which by the way includes many things other than that. And then that's gonna serve as its own sort of security guarantee so that the billionaires will get their bag out of Ukraine by exploiting that country and then will that security guarantee will make sure that Russia doesn't further invade the country. That to me was an indication perhaps that's still the direction that he's moving in.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, here's what's interesting and here's why I kind of disagreed that this was an ambush. Zelensky comes in and says at the beginning of the meeting, cuz I went back and read the transcript, that he's hopeful about this deal, that this deal is the first step in the right direction. And then what we find out is he actually believes that not have that the deal in and of itself is not a good enough security guarantee for the people of Ukraine and for Zelensky, by the way, I mean, as someone who was, like, horrified by Zelenskyy's conduct and that, I shouldn't say horrified. That overstates it, because it wasn't surprising, but was, like, disgusted with Zelenskyy's conduct in that meeting. I also don't blame him because he has his own interests. He's watched so many of his own people die. He has watched his cities be destroyed, despite the fact that he corrected Trump and said that was Russian propaganda to say that Ukrainian cities have been destroyed. Not all of them have. Some of them are, like, flattened. And that's what Trump was talking about. So I get that. I think from Zelenskyy's perspective, this is. He does have his own interests. He has his own people to worry about. He is, you know, he is the representative of his own people.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

At the same time, the question then becomeswas he sitting there saying that this deal is great and then always intending to not end up signing it. They could have signed it in Kyiv, they could have signed it in other places. He flies here. Was he not going to sign this if he didn't get something else out of Trump? In Vance. And when Vance. When Zelenskyy turned to Vance, it felt like Zelenskyy had this, like, a very organic and natural tension again, from his point of view, as somebody who lives in Ukraine who's overseeing this war and seeing the suffering of the Ukrainian people, he says Putin has steamrolled. He's made all of these agreements. You can't do diplomacy with Putin. Turns the question to J.D. vance that to me, if I were J.D. vance, I would have exploded, too. Being challenged in front of the American media by the President, I would have lost my mind. Not saying it was helpful, but I would have lost my mind if I were him, because it's like, actually the only option at this point. And by Zelenskyy's own admission, he was saying the deal was good. What? 30 minutes before, when the press conference started, I had a. I had more. My reaction was closer to Sager's because I was traveling and I saw the clips first, and when I saw the last 10 minutes, I was like, oh, my gosh, what just happened? And then I went back and watched it from the beginning. I was like, zelensky keeps throwing jabs at Trump and is like, again, I get why he would. Because he doesn't think this is enough. And he's seen examples before of why it's not enough. But his SOL is more like Clinton, Bush style, American imperialism. And it's Just like Trump is caught in the middle of that. And it doesn't mean that Trump's solution is genius. I'm not a big fan of the economic colonization mineral deal, but Zelenskyy did not do himself any favors, that's for sure.

[Emily Jashinsky]

I just did not see it that way at all.

[Krystal Ball]

It's interesting because it's been sort of a Rorschach test.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah. And again, like, I'm not a Zelensky, Stan. Right. He does have his own interests. And it is, like I said, the things J.D. vance said about people being pulled off the show. We've covered that on this show. And at this point, at the beginning of the war, including when we were pushing them to walk away from the negotiations which he was participating in, this is what drives me crazy, is the complete attempt to rewrite history and absolve ourselves of our role in this. Absolve Trump of his role in helping to bring about this horrific war and this horrific situation, where you're right, there are no good options at this point. Truly, there are no good options at this point. But the attempt to rewrite history is crazy making to me. But in addition, I mean to point out, hey, this guy's not the most trustworthy actor. I don't see why that makes you explode. What would make me explode is the insanity of pretending like we had nothing to do with this situation, and now you're gonna have to just take it. And you owe us a thank you. A thank you for what? We owe you an apology for what we have done to this country and the way we have used it as a plaything. And again.

[Krystal Ball]

But Zelensky wants that. That's the difference. I would apologize to the average Ukrainian, but to Zelensky.

[Emily Jashinsky]

That's what I was gonna say about Zelensky is at the beginning, when we were pushing, let's not have these negotiations. Actually, the Ukrainian people were very much. As much as we can tell from the polling, etcetera, and from the. I think this is maybe the most telling sign. The number of military signups there were and recruits at that point where people were volunteering, like, yes, I want to be part of this war. The Ukrainian people were behind, we want to fight. And the US Is, oh, we're all in with you. And we're going to be there standing with you and giving you everything you need, et cetera. That sentiment has very much changed, which is why Zelensky's approval has fallen. Now. I think his approval, we don't really know, but his approval rating appears to be higher than Trump's is in our own country. So it's not like he has no support, but certainly his approval rating has fallen. There is massive fatigue among the population. That's why they had to lower the conscription age. I mean, didn't have to, but decided to lower the conscription age. That's why they've been aggressively, basically, like kidnapping men off the streets, banning men from leaving the country, et cetera. So the public sentiment within Ukraine is now diverging somewhat from Zelensky and where he wants things to be. That being said, except for maybe since.

[Krystal Ball]

Friday, when the country's, like, rallying.

[Emily Jashinsky]

That's what I was gonna say. That being said, since this dust up occurred, I do think it has probably strengthened his domestic political position because even the opposition has come out in support of him and in opposition to the way that this was handled by Trump and Vance, et cetera. So, again, my bottom line here is whether you think it was an ambush or not, I genuinely do. But I think reasonable people could disagree there, as Emily and Sagar certainly disagree with me on that. The part of it that drives me crazy is just the fakery of ignoring how and why we got here, of pretending we played no role and pretending also like we're oppositional to Zelensky, like, we are on the same team. This is like Mississippi having international affairs disagreement with the federal government. And that's what I mean when I say this is a show, because it is not reflective of the actual reality of the conditions that led to this war, of the conditions that led us to exactly this point. And so we'll see what the fallout is and if it changes any of the dynamics. But, you know, as of now, I think probably Trump is probably still pushing in the direction of this minerals deal because it's very consistent with the rest of his foreign policy that he's pursuing around the world, which is just a smash and grab. And again, I think it's really important for people to understand this exploitation of Ukraine or conquest of Greenland or Panama Canal or Canada or whatever. These deals are not to benefit you. There's a reason why the AI Gaza video has, like, a Trump hotel there. This is to benefit billionaires, the Trump family, themselves, their buddies around the world, and to secure those economic interests for themselves, using the US Taxpayer and the US Soldier to protect those economic interests. And it's not like that's a new dynamic. Right. I'm not Pollyanna here, I'm not naive. Not saying this is our first trip to the economic colonization rodeo, but that's.

[Krystal Ball]

A hell of a rodeo.

[Emily Jashinsky]

It's been a hell of a ride, let me tell you.

[Krystal Ball]

He is more nakedly transactional.

[Emily Jashinsky]

He is more nakedly transactional about it. There is not even a valence of this is about democracy. This is about human rights. This is about standing up for ourselves. This is about protecting territorial integrity. It's. It's just about we're gonna get what we can get out of it. And again, not us, him and his buddies and the other billionaires that he's close to. And it was billionaires that originally proposed this who had direct interest in exploitation in Ukraine who proposed this deal. So I think there's a lot of incentives still pushing in that direction. But like I said, the oppositional force is wanting to align more closely with their ideological brethren in Russia, so. So we'll see how this all goes down. The last piece of fallout here. Put a five up on the screen. This is kind of interesting just in terms of the global pushback. There was a Norwegian fuel supplier that refused to refuel U.S. warships over this dust up in the White House. This is a Norwegian fuel company. Haltbach Bunkers announced it will cease supplying fuel to US Military forces in Norway and American ships docking in Norwegian ports, citing dissatisfaction with recent US Policy towards Ukraine. In a strongly worded statement, company criticized televised event involving US President Trump and JD Vance, referring to it as, quote, the biggest shit show ever presented on live tv. They praised Zelensky for his restraint, accused the US of putting on a backstabbing TV show and declaring that the spectacle made us sick. So kind of an interesting economic retaliation there.

[Krystal Ball]

At least we put on great TV shows. That's my takeaway, do we not? One thing you can't take away from Donald Trump. Celebrity Apprentice.

[Emily Jashinsky]

I was not a watcher, but I believe you. I believe you.

[Krystal Ball]

It was good. It was good.

[Emily Jashinsky]

I mean, listen, the man is frickin. He's funny. Like, he's funny, he's charismatic. He's a cat. Like, that is the area where he is an absolute genius. And you can't take that away from him.

[Krystal Ball]

Cannot take that away from him. So we're in agreement on that?

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yes, we'll close with that agreement.

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[Emily Jashinsky]

So relevant to the discussion. We were just having lots of protests breaking out over various reasons and issues across the country. But in particular J.D. vance, after the whole dust up with Zelensky in the Oval Office, took his family on a ski vacation in Vermont and the protesters certainly showed up there. Let's take a look. We can put some of these images up on the screen. So. So people were lining the roadways here with signs, most of them like pro Ukraine signs. We can see all the Ukraine flags. Lots of anti Russia and J.D. vance's Putin's puppet. And that sort of sentiment going on here in Vermont. You can see these signs stand with Ukraine. Trump serves Putin. JD Vance is a traitor. Go ski in Russia. I was kind of surprised that they were able to spin up this protest this quick. Yeah, it's a lot of people just happened and I mean it does go to what I do feel like this, this kind of really touched a nerve for a lot of people who were. Because it's easy on this show. We've had tried to have a nuanced view of this conflict and have been pushing for an end to the war since the war really began. But if you look at the polling, people are over. It's not like people love Vladimir Putin, they hate Putin. Zelensky has a higher favorability rating than JD Vance or Donald Trump in our country. And so I do think it's easy to get in a bubble where you feel like, cuz online there's all this like anti Zelensky sentiment and you know, interest in being more aligned with Russia, which look, I think if we had better relations with all the nations of the world, that would be a good thing. But that is not really reflective of where public sentiment has been on this conflict.

[Krystal Ball]

I mean, the protests to me looked like a bunch of sort of. And I say this lovingly, like crunchy boomer Vermont hippies. Which is interesting. Yeah. And again, this isn't lovingly, but what's interesting is the energy where you're able to like mobilize a bunch of people to get. I mean, if you're listening to this, what you missed on those videos, if you hadn't seen them, is there actually are a lot of people lining the road. And to Crystal's point, this is within like 24 hours of all of that going down. So I think it does speak to. We're gonna talk about Democrats later in the show. But I think it does legitimately speak to the energy that does exist on the left, even though some people aren't like, it's obviously not 2017 right now. There's not a Women's March happening, but there's still significant, significant hostility to Trump to the point where it can rally people. And, you know, the Russia exists. It looms large in the boomer imagination. So there's an emotional trigger. I think anytime it looks like the United States is aligning, or you can make the argument that the United States is aligning with Russia, which I don't agree with in this case, but that just gets people out into the streets. So there's something there. There's a spark.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Well, and I think you're right that it is part and parcel of a larger, just like anti. Anti one resistance that has truly fomented and really without much leadership from the Democratic elites, you have some of these groups, like Invisible and Move on, that have really taken the lead. You've got a few members, I mean, Bernie being the primary example, who have sort of led the charge. But a lot of this is very grassroots organizing. Meanwhile, the Democratic leadership is meeting and being like, let's make ourselves more friendly to billionaires, et cetera, like Emily said. We'll get to that in a minute. But. But in addition to those protests, there were also some videos of J.D. vance, like, on the ski slopes getting yelled at and stuff, which, anyway, I enjoyed. But would you do it if you.

[Krystal Ball]

Were there, would you yell at them?

[Emily Jashinsky]

Probably not. Just because I'm like, you know, a public person.

[Krystal Ball]

Crystal ball goes viral.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah, I don't know. I wouldn't want to put myself in the center. But do I support prominent, powerful people getting yelled at when they're in public places? Yes, I do. Yes, I do. And not just on the Republican side. Across the board. Yell at your Especially because they won't even, like, you know, these senators and Congress people, like, they're backing out of their town halls. They're so terrified that someone's gonna, like, be mean to them or ask them a hostile question or whatever. So what other chance do you have to get to express your views than when they decide to go on their ski vacation?

[Krystal Ball]

You really ran on the wrong side of the Tea Party ticket, Crystal. Remember, this is the exact argument the rightthe right was like, yeah, let them hear it. Just shout them. Which I agree with, obviously.

[Emily Jashinsky]

I think they should be required to submit themselves to debates, town halls. You cannot hide from the public if you're supposed to be a public official. But let's Put this next piece up on the screen. There was a local ski reporter. This is kind of funny, who writes the snow report locally, who used her platform to express her views against. This was less to do with Zelensky and more to do with climate and with the attacks on the National Weather Service in particular. So she wrote a long piece there that also included the news about the snow. But she was upset about the NOAA cuts. She was also upset about the attacks on some of the things that were being done to mitigate climate change. So that was interesting as well. And then a few members, Republican members, did decide to go forward with their town halls. Let me show you a mashup of this. This is one, Representative Diana Harshberger from Tennessee, Keith Self from Texas, and then probably the most interesting one, Senator Roger Marshall from Kansas, who is confronted, you'll see in the video, by someone who's concerned about veterans being fired. And he just basically decides to rage, quit his own town hall. At this point, people are yelling him like, you haven't even been here an hour, et cetera, et cetera. So let's take a look at the temperature at these various town halls. There's been a mandate to the president from the American people.

[Krystal Ball]

Am I correct? No, there's not a mandate by the.

[Sagar Enjeti]

American people who overwhelmingly 30% the congressional budget.

[Krystal Ball]

But you know what it's going to be by 2035, it's going to be 59 trillion. Did I tell you? Did I tell the other one is.

[Emily Jashinsky]

The DOGE program.

[Ryan Grim]

Right now, as far as cutting out those jobs, a huge percentage of those people. And I know you care about the veterans.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Are veterans.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes.

[Emily Jashinsky]

And that is a damn shame. Yes.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, that is a damn. I'm not a Democrat, but I'm worried about the veterans, man. We don't have time for everyone to stand up. I do got two more commitments today. Appreciate everybody making the drive out and God bless America. Thank you.

[Emily Jashinsky]

So you can see people very much not happy. And that last piece was Senator Roger Marshall, who's saying, like, you know how I've got these other commitments got to go. And people are not happy about it. And it was interesting because that guy stood up and he's like, I'm not a Democrat, but I am concerned about the veterans. So you're starting to get in a little bit of a broader swath. Of course, most of the people that are gonna show up at a town hall are likely to be, you know, they're likely to be partisans. They were in the Tea Party era as well. But the COPE from the right that, like, oh, these are just like paid activists by George Soros or whatever. You know, I heard the same thing from Democrats during the Tea Party era.

[Krystal Ball]

Yep.

[Emily Jashinsky]

But if you know anything about politics, if you've been involved either, you know, in electoral politics or as an activist, you know, it is damn near impossible to get people to show up to things. And so if people are willing to take time out of their day to go to this town hall and yell at their congressman or yell at their senator, even if they are partisans, that is representative of a real energy that exists out there that is quite consequential, especially when you think in terms of things like special elections and midterm elections.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. So according to Axios, about 30% of the federal workforce is veterans, and a big chunk of that is disabled veterans. So this is a. I mean, I think it's. In comparison, about 5% of the private sector workforce is veterans. This is like a huge percentage of the federal workforce compared to the private workforce is veteran composed. So mass cuts are going to target veterans. Actually, Democrats have introduced a bill to reinstate veterans who are fired without cause by the Trump administration. So that's how vulnerable Republicans will be on this issue. We were talking earlier in this block about how Ukraine is sort of a trigger issue for some boomers. Well, this is a trigger issue for people who are, like, across the political spectrum of all demographics. As soon as veterans in their communities there are vas that. I mean, a lot of cases are already. People are worried, are understaffed or are crumbling in every community.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

And when that hits home, that reflects on Doge. And so to the extent that public opinion on Doge is falling, some people may say, well, it's just the chaos, blah, blah. I think a lot of it is localized. I think the more people start seeing this in their community, the more Republicans are gonna need to have answers. And these town halls are not gonna cut it. I mean, from a political standpoint, it's insane that they're still doing these town halls, even though it's great to see, you know, the. Yeah. I mean, doesn't matter if they're Democrat or Republican. I would. A political standpoint. It just seems to me they're not prepared to answer some of these questions because the broad project of slashing government and making it, quote, more efficient might pull. Okay. But when you localize it, it's a very different matter.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah, that's right. And, you know, I. So I've mentioned before, my first job out of college was working for, like, a federal government contractor. And my primary client was the US Federal courts. And so I spent a lot of time working both at the administrative office here in D.C. but also one of my jobs was to travel around the country to the different court systems and help them with their software implementation, blah, blah, blah. And it was really interesting because one of the things that I noticed is that the smaller the town, like, say I traveled to Sioux Falls, South Dakota, which is a relatively small city, the more sort of impressive the people working there were. And this is not to slam federal government employees in large cities or whatever, but because the salaries were comparatively high for that area, you really would attract like, the cream of the crop in terms of, you know, that local community. And those tend to be people who are, like, pillars of the community. And so it's almost like the smaller the area that you go to, the more consequential whatever the federal government jobs are going to be to that community. It's sort of the same thing with public schools. You know, public schools, really important teachers and administrators, really the sort of, like, linchpin of the community, the smaller the town that you go in. Which is why during the teacher strike wave, you had this huge backlash in red rural states because of exactly that dynamic and how sort of, like, significant those institutions were as centers of community and how significant those individuals were to that community. And we can put B5 up on the screen. This is about the national parks. This is another piece that I think really hits home for people. In addition to, obviously, no one wants to see, like, disabled veterans getting laid off. No one wants to see military spouses getting laid off, which is another significant component, because they're disproportionately on that probationary period because they're having to move around the country. No one wants to see these national parks that we really, you know, we really take pride in, really enjoy being destroyed and being so understaffed that they can't handle the crowds that are coming in that you can't evensome of them have had to shut down, even making reservations for the future. Lots of families plan their summers and their vacations around being able to go to these national parks. And so I think that's an another very tangible thing to people where it contributes to this sense of you're cutting into things that we actually care about, like the things about the federal government that we actually appreciate, that we actually enjoy, and that genuinely do contribute to the public good. So this was again, an impressive effort. You had thousands of people at national parks all across the country from California to Maine, there's a group called Resistance Rangers consisting of about 700 off duty Rangers that have been helping to organize these protests. They were able, their goal was to get protests at all of the country's 433 national park sites. I think they were able to pull off protests at at least 145 sites. So pretty impressive there. And I do think that that has been another locus of public upset and pushback. The other thing is, let's put before up on the screen the, you know, Tesla has become the, one of the most visible symbols of Elon Musk, who, you know, people, myself included, very unhappy about the way he has just sort of like claimed control of the federal government for himself. So there was a large protest in, I believe this was in Tucson outside of a Tesla dealership. And you can see here up on the screen, you know, this is a lot of people.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Emily Jashinsky]

That are gathered there on the side of the road to protest Elon and Doge and the cuts that are being made. I have anecdotally been seeing around town. I don't know if you've seen any of the Teslas that have the bumper sticker that say I bought it before I knew Elon was insane. Tesla as a company we covered this last week is not doing well. Sales have fallen almost 50% in Europe, they're down significantly in California. Part of that is certainly because of Elon being so closely associated with the brand. In fact the company, every company is obligated to put out in their disclosures what are the rules, risks to the company. And they have long said that one of the risks is Elon being so closely associated with it. And if opinion changes of him, that could have a really negative impact. So we are seeing that bear out and reality and the stock price suffer as a result.

[Krystal Ball]

It's funny because you can also make the argument that there's been a benefit, obviously not overall, but that there's been a boost now that Elon Musk has become this weird cultural litmus test in that I know a bunch of people on the right who are now into Tesla. And it's hilarious because it used to be the other way around. It used to be like the people who now have those stickers on the back of their cars were like environmentally friendly. And this was sort of a badge of virtue to drive a Tesla. And I saw a woman yesterday shouting at a random. I was going out to get a coffee, just a Tesla at a four way intersection. And this woman just comes out like f Tesla. I don't support effing Elon. Really? Yeah. Just laying into this Tesla driver.

[Emily Jashinsky]

You gotta get your phone out faster, girl. You gotta recruit. Record that for us.

[Krystal Ball]

It was really wild, but on the point about firing and then reinstating people. So that has happened at the VA and National Parks. Cuz we were just talking about both of them. Democrats estimate like 6,000 veterans have been laid off so far. And the national parks also restored some of the jobs that were eliminated. And it's one of those things where Elon Musk's in the Oval or he was at the cabinet meeting last week saying we're gonna make mistakes. We accidentally canceled Ebola protection. Remember when he said that last week? And it's just they don't have. They're just relying on this overall project. And of course both things can be true that like national parks can be great, we can love our veterans and the VA can have all kinds of problems with. Everyone agrees with across the political spectrum that the VA has tons of problems and probably does need to be streamlined and more efficient. But if you're going to make that argument, you need to be prepared for what it means when people are veterans who serve the country are losing their jobs and Elon is out with, with a chainsaw at cpac. And that is what Republicans, despite having all of this time to prepare for what Doge would do, have not been prepared to deal with.

[Emily Jashinsky]

I think Sager made a good point about Elon too, that the more that he, the less he comes off as like, oh, the brilliant, visionary, genius businessman. And the more he comes off as like your asshole boss, the worse that's gonna be politically for Elon. And you can already start to see the way that this is also weighing down Trump. And then, and then you add to that the Republican budget proposal which includes slashing Medicaid and massive tax cuts to the rich, and you can really very clearly paint the picture of, oh, this administration, they're just for Elon and their rich buddies. I mean, the crypto thing obviously goes hand in glove with that as well. This is just a pro oligarch agenda and these cuts really have nothing to do with making the government so efficient. That's what I've heard from kind of like normie moderates who have voted for Republicans in the past or whatever. It's like, you know, I'm all about more government efficiency and I do think the government should be smaller. But you have to be smart about how you do it. You can't just come in with a hatchet and cut like you know people chainsaw important for air traffic control. As another example here, let's be honest.

[Sagar Enjeti]

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[Emily Jashinsky]

As these protests Emily spring up across the country, Bill Maher has some ideas about how the Democrats and how this resistance is ultimately playing out. He gathered his panel of Fareed Zakaria and Rahm Emanuel to weigh in on some very cherry picked selective protest demonstrations. Let's take a listen to how that went.

[Ryan Grim]

This is something called the People's Union USA and they have something called Today I got emails about this from people. No spend day and it's against the malign influence of billionaires, big corporations and both major political parties on the lives of working Americans. And what it is is you refrain from making any purchases either in stores or online to shun fast food getting gas for a full day. I know. That look on your face says it all. You're right. It's so fucking stupid and lame. The idea, right. Whoever wrote that has way too much time on their hands.

[Emily Jashinsky]

No, this is the thing that's going.

[Ryan Grim]

On today and it just, it mistakes. This is why I was saying that there really is a movement of people doing interpretive dances to protest the Trump administration cuts of us. I mean like people are starving. You know, the thing about not winning, as you said, is you're left with these kind of absurdities.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Right.

[Ryan Grim]

The answer is figure out how to win elections. I mean, yes, watch the Democrats. Listen to the Democrats about Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, both of whom you worked for. So these are the only two Democrats since Franklin Roosevelt to have 12 Democrats terms, right?

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

And what does the party say? They did everything wrong. We've got to get away from. Wait a minute. They're the ones who won the election. Bernie Sanders didn't win. AOC hasn't been president recently. Like you know, the Labour Party does this with Tony Blair. They're like, Blair is horrible. They said he won three elections. Yeah. Let me get breaking news. 100,000 new community police officers or defund the police. Now which one do you think is worse? It's Crazy on this part, but it's example of this, I think the party, you know, you're talking about interpretive dance and everything like that. And what's really crazy about where the party's gone, it's taken an identity politics that the only way you have a moral standing is you're somehow been hurt. And that is insane. And if you want to take a moral standing of an identity politics based on where you've been hurt, then we're going to do it about the working and middle class families of this country who's gotten the shaft over the last 30. And that is where we.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Oh my God, that made me want to kill myself. I mean, it is the neoliberal wing of the party as represented by Hillary Clinton, who foisted identity politics on us in an attempt to block Bernie Sanders, who was actually talking about working class people and trying to deliver for them. That makes me insane. In addition, pretending like they've been following the Bernie Sanders path to victory and it just hasn't worked out is preposterous. Kamala Harris and Joe Biden did all the things you people would want them to do and she lost. She lost. Where's the reckoning with that? And then finally to pretend like the only thing that's happening at this point is some like cringy interpretive dance protest, which was outside the Kennedy Center, I believe is where that happened. Like that's just dishonest. That's just dishonest. But they don't want to acknowledge that to the point about, hey, you need to win, you need to take power. That Bernie Sanders is out doing town halls in swing districts across the country, talking about oligarchy and fighting back because he wants to put pressure on the moderate, supposedly not that such a thing really exists on the Republican swing district members who Mike Johnson needs in order to vote and pass, pass anything. So there are first of all a few people out there who actually have a strategy, who are in leadership. But by and large the grassroots base has been left to fend for themselves. And they are out at these town halls trying to use pressure on public officials in a way that I do think could be impactful. I mean, you see the way, Emily, that they are very uncomfortable, these Republican representatives, when they're actually confronting, confronted with these questions. And like you said, they don't have responses. Most of them are just avoiding town halls altogether. But I can tell you from being at those Tea Party protests back in 2010, seeing people in person, in your face with a certain view and upset about what's going on? These are human beings. That has an impact on you.

[Krystal Ball]

I believe it. Yeah. And Rahm Emanuel, by the way, worked for Barack Obama. So the line about identity politics is pretty laughable because the Obama era is when the Democratic Party, of which he was a sort of card carrying, establishment.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Elite member of, he was an architect of the ideological direction. I mean, he selected for what type of candidates would be backed by the dnc, which went great for the dnc. And by the way, to your point about Obama, sorry to jump in, but Obama was good at getting himself elected. How did the Democratic Party do under Obama? They lost 1,000 state House legislative seats across the country. They lost governor's mansion, they lost rural America. That happened under Obama. So don't tell me about how great he was for the party because, yeah, he was good at getting himself reelected, but they lost the House, they lost the Senate, they lost the state houses, they got totally destroyed and redistricting because of the Tea Party wave. And, and guess who gets elected after Obama? Donald Trump. And you think that you don't take any of the blame for setting up the political preconditions that lead to that? Like, give me a break, give me a break.

[Krystal Ball]

So, yeah, I mean, the other thing that's funny about this, now, Democrats are working with a lot here. So. And polling is increasingly bearing this out. So 54, this is a new PBS poll. 54% of independents say that the President is changing the country for the worse, that early changes have been for the worse, and that it's also a big chunk of people who say 2/3 of independents say Trump is rushing to make change without considering the impact of his decisions. 56% of independents in this poll view Elon Musk unfavorably. So the answer to that is not Mar and Rahm Emanuel ism. Right? Like, they're not tapping into what people are upset about at all. They're not like, writing the shit. It's just this, this is a serious, like, dynamic in terms of it's something Trump has benefited from forever and it's led the Republicans to take wrong lessons from all of this. And it's going to do the same for Democrats. Just because public opinion is going in one direction, it doesn't mean that it's great for Democrats. Democrats actually have to proactively come up with something better than muskism. You can't just rely on people being unhappy with Musk because then people end up picking what they see as the lesser of two evils. And that doesn't Always go in Democrats favor.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Yeah, there was that James Carville piece in the New York Times, I think that was like, just don't do anything.

[Krystal Ball]

Yes, yes.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Openly made that argument. And we've heard this argument too, before from, I think, Hakeem Jeffries, whom, my God, what a pathetic loser. Said something, oh, let them punch themselves down. Don't swing at every pitch, et cetera, et cetera. Think of how Republicans responded to Obama. Did they say, like, oh, just let them punch themselves. We're just gonna sit back? No, it's gonna destroy themselves.

[Krystal Ball]

Green eggs and ham in the Senate floor.

[Emily Jashinsky]

I mean, come on, like, get real. You have to fight, you have to offer. And also, it's not enough to let them manifest the horrors of their own agenda. You have to offer an alternative vision, if nothing else. Even if you think, and I think it is possible that just through the declining favorability and potential economic collapse they're courting by the Western of the Trump Musk administration, that Democrats could do well in the midterms. But this isn't just like, who cares what party is in control if they're not delivering ultimately for people's lives? And so you can't lose sight of that either. You have to explain how you are going to actually deliver material, make life better for people, make country better, make the world a better place. If you're not doing that, why do you even exist as a political party? What is the point of this other than a racket for consultants and for politicians to get their life like attention and be able to insider trade?

[Krystal Ball]

So it's not just going to be enough to know that you should be talking about the price of eggs as opposed to identity politics and dancing outside the Kennedy Center. You actually need to explain what Democrats are going to do to lower the price of eggs. Because one of the interesting things in the PBS poll is actually that there's a growing sense from the public, this is a quote from the article, that the country is headed in the right direction. 45% of Americans believe so, which was up 10 points from December. And now at the second highest point of the last 15 years. What's very interesting about that is it gets to the lesser of two evils point that if your answer to Trump and Musk, who are increasingly struggling with independence, is going to be like, if your answer also sucks, doesn't mean that you're going to beat Trump and get your power back. You have to have an answer that's better. Otherwise people are gonna continue doing lesser to evil dynamics, which doesn't work out well for the Democrats, even though they're like Trump and Musk are so crazy. It's gonna be great for us. Well, no, it's only gonna be great for you if you're better. If you have a better answer about the price of eggs Foreign.

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