3/5/26: Newsom Calls Israel Apartheid, Saagar Humiliated On War, Lindsey Graham Holy War

Summary

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Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar

Episode Title: 3/5/26: Newsom Calls Israel Apartheid, Saagar Humiliated On War, Lindsey Graham Holy War
Release Date: March 5, 2026
Hosts: Krystal Ball, Saagar Enjeti, with guest/host Emily Jashinsky
Podcast Theme: “Breaking Points” is an anti-establishment political news podcast offering honest perspectives from left and right.

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles shifting Democratic positions on Israel/Palestine (spotlighting Gavin Newsom's comments on Israel as an “apartheid state”), the uncomfortable reckoning among the anti-war movement and political class with the escalation of U.S. involvement in the Middle East, and the dramatic resurgence of religious language in the framing of current conflicts—especially by American and Israeli officials. The latter half explores how "holy war" rhetoric has overtaken U.S. foreign policy regarding Iran, Israel, and the broader Middle East, with deep dives into the theology and political implications by Emily Jashinsky.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Shifts in Democratic Discourse on Israel/Palestine

• Gavin Newsom’s evolving stance:
  • Newsom appeared on a podcast (“Pod Save”) and—contrary to the previously unwavering Democratic messaging—referred to Israel as “sort of an apartheid state” and floated the idea of conditioning U.S. military aid to Israel.
  • Krystal and Saagar highlight both the significance and the calculation behind Newsom’s rhetorical shift, emphasizing that “five years ago, I was absolutely—it will never happen” (Saagar, 05:48)—showing how much the Democratic base and Overton window have moved.
  • Newsom's spokesperson later walked back the comments, reaffirming Israel’s “right to exist”.
• Analysis of political calculation:
  • Krystal notes, “he’s just a cynical weather vane, right?... no principle here. It’s just him trying to read the tea leaves” (Krystal, 09:47).
• AIPAC’s shifting tactics:
  • Discussion around a close Democratic primary (Valerie Foushee vs. Nida Allam) shows AIPAC now supporting candidates even after they criticize Israel—“they have lost the ability to enforce, to hold that line with the Democratic Party” (Saagar, 11:49), creating more space for figures like Newsom.

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2. Democratic Disarray and War Powers

• War Powers Resolution tension:
  • Saagar highlights how Democrats in Congress are struggling with the War Powers Resolution, trying to avoid being seen as supporting Trump-led war while also not opposing U.S. military action in the Middle East (09:47–13:56).
• Representative Landsman's awkward interview:
  • Landsman attempts to justify trusting U.S. military action under Trump, despite not trusting Trump himself, leading to a “humiliating” interview (Saagar, 12:49).
  • Krystal: “All their level of hubris and being out of touch demonstrates their ideological commitment” (Krystal, 13:56).

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3. The Politicization of ‘Genocide’ and Democratic Primary Dynamics

• Newsom vs. Ben Shapiro on 'genocide':
  • Clip aired of Newsom equivocating on calling Israel’s actions “genocide,” essentially parroting Shapiro’s denial (14:47).
  • Saagar: “This got dog walked. It’s embarrassing. I mean, this is not gonna cut it” (16:06).
• 2028 primary forecasts:
  • The hosts debate Newsom’s prospects. Krystal outlines how the Democratic base’s shifting demographics (e.g., Texas primaries showing changing coalitions) could work in Newsom’s favor, especially older Black voters in Southern states (17:32–18:58).

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4. Political Hypocrisy Over War with Iran

Supercut of Pre-War Anti-War Rhetoric vs. Current Actions

• Hosts play clips of officials (Tulsi Gabbard, Pete Hegseth, J.D. Vance, Trump) voicing anti-war stances (23:26–25:04)
• Current stance reversal:
  • The hosts express personal disappointment in anti-war politicians now enacting/endorsing military conflict with Iran.
  • “I gotta tell you, it has been one of the most serially radicalizing things that has ever happened to me” (Saagar, 28:44).
  • “The people we defended and the people we thought were going to come into power, who were going to do something, did not do it. Okay? Period. End of story. And that is genuinely the greatest professional disappointment of my entire life.” (Krystal, 29:41)

Analyzing Political Betrayal and Lessons in Trust

• Saagar: “What’s the track record and where does the money come from? ... those are going to be the things [that matter].” (30:11)
• Krystal describes the anti-war “experiment” with Trump’s staff as a failed promise—believing personnel could rein in Trump, only to be proven wrong as staff and President both aligned on hawkish foreign policy. (32:25–34:24)

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5. Religious Rhetoric, Holy War, and Policy

American Politicians, Holy War, and Christian Zionism

• Lindsey Graham/framing war as religious:
  • Clip: “This is a religious war... a moment of decision that will set the course of the future of the Mideast for a thousand years.” (Graham, 45:20)
• Speaker Mike Johnson/‘misguided religion’:
  • “We're the great Satan in their analogy and their misguided religion” (46:00)
• Senator Cramer/‘biblical responsibility’:
  • “We have a biblical responsibility to Israel as well as an allied responsibility.” (Cramer, 46:32)
• Reports of U.S. commanders telling troops Trump is ‘anointed by Jesus’ to bring about Armageddon. (46:37)

Trump’s Religious Advisors and Policy

• Paula White’s prayer at the White House:
  • Intensely spiritual and militaristic: “Strike and strike and strike and strike and strike … Until you have victory for every enemy that is aligned against you.” (47:37)
• Pete Hegseth’s Crusader rhetoric:
  • Hegseth invokes the Third Temple and recurring biblical ‘miracle’—a not-so-subtle echo of crusader ethos and eschatology. (48:54)

Dispensationalism and the Third Temple Explained

(Emily Jashinsky’s Segment, 49:55–65:20)

• Dispensationalism defined:
  • A school of evangelical Christian theology tying biblical prophecy to the modern state of Israel, popularized in U.S. conservative circles via “Left Behind” books and culture.
• Why the Third Temple matters:
  • Rebuilding it is, for some dispensationalists, a harbinger of the coming biblical apocalypse and Christ’s return.
  • Emily: “If you grew up part of your life, there wasn’t a country called Israel, then ... you could see how it’s easy to read into some of this the fulfillment of Scripture, when suddenly there is a country called Israel…” (Jashinsky, 51:26)
• Political figures with ties to this theology:
  • Pete Hegseth, Mike Huckabee, Paula White are all cited as advancing or aligning with these narratives—with some, like Huckabee, being careful to straddle political risk in public rhetoric (Jashinsky, 58:34).
• The Temple Institute in Jerusalem:
  • An organization actively preparing for Third Temple reconstruction with heavy financial support from U.S.-Israel aligned billionaires with overlap to Trump donors (61:42).
  • Emily: “This is actually not a crazy abstract thing. This is in motion. It is fundamentally funded by politically significant billionaires.” (59:26)
• Religious undercurrents in the Israeli military:
  • Instances of IDF soldiers wearing Third Temple patches; the centrality of sacred land to global faiths; firebrand Israeli politicians.

Radicalization Across the Spectrum

• U.S., Israel, Iran—religious zeal and conflict:
  • Emily flags that “this slice of land is so tied up in some extremist eschatologies, some mainstream eschatologies… such a fragile situation” (64:51).
• Killing Iran’s Ayatollah may make him a martyr, stoking greater religious fervor across Shia communities in the region (Iran, Iraq, Bahrain, etc.) (65:22–67:48)

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Notable Quotes & Key Timestamps

• On Newsom’s shift:
  • “For Gavin Newsom to say those two things, five years ago, I was absolutely—it will never happen.” (Saagar, 05:48)
• On Dem party’s changing Israel stance:
  • “AIPAC… recognize[s] they have lost the ability to enforce, to hold that line with the Democratic Party.” (Saagar, 11:49)
• On anti-war betrayal:
  • “Genuinely the greatest professional disappointment of my entire life.” (Krystal, 29:41)
  • “What’s the track record and where does the money come from?... those are going to be the things [that matter].” (Saagar, 30:11)
• On Lindsey Graham’s rhetoric:
  • “This is a religious war. ... This is a moment of decision that will set the course of the future of the Mideast for a thousand years.” (Graham, 45:20)
• Paula White (Trump’s spiritual advisor):
  • “Strike and strike and strike... until you have victory for every enemy that is aligned against you.” (47:37)
• Emily Jashinsky, on dispensationalism:
  • “If you grew up... there wasn’t a country called Israel, then... it’s easy to read into this the fulfillment of Scripture, when suddenly there is a country called Israel…” (51:26)
  • “This is actually not a crazy abstract thing. This is in motion. It is fundamentally funded by politically significant billionaires.” (59:26)
• On the Ayatollah’s death:
  • “You are not going to bomb away this theology that is now deeply ingrained by your own arguments … So it’s so dangerous.” (Jashinsky, 66:00)

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Important Timestamps & Segments

• 02:50–09:47: Shifting Democratic discourse on Israel/Palestine.
• 09:47–13:56: AIPAC, primary dynamics, and Democratic establishment.
• 13:56–16:24: Newsom’s equivocation & his primary vulnerabilities.
• 23:26–34:24: Political hypocrisy over war, anti-war candidates turned hawks, personal tales of disillusionment.
• 44:18–49:55: U.S. officials openly framing Middle East conflict as religious/holy war.
• 49:55–65:20: Deep dive with Emily Jashinsky: dispensationalism, Third Temple theology’s influence on policy, the Temple Institute, religious symbolism in the Israeli military, and martyrdom’s radicalizing effect in Iran.

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Tone & Language

The conversation is incisive, blunt, and at times sardonic—characterized by frustration at political hypocrisy, dark humor (especially around “weather vane” politicians and the theater of war), and a critical, anti-establishment edge.

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Summary Takeaways

• Democratic establishment and base are diverging sharply on Israel/Palestine, reflected in shifting rhetoric from leading figures like Newsom.
• The anti-war brand has been egregiously betrayed—from Trump world and supposed non-interventionists now overseeing or supporting a spiraling Middle East conflict.
• Religious language—Christian Zionist, Evangelical, and eschatological—now powerfully undergirds U.S. policy, with key advisors, lawmakers, and donors espousing rhetoric of ‘holy war’, Third Temple prophecy, and ‘biblical responsibility’.
• The feedback loop between theology-fueled policy in the U.S., Israel’s far right, and Islamic theocracy in Iran is raising the stakes and dangers of regional and global conflict.
• Emily Jashinsky provides needed theological and sociopolitical context about dispensationalism, the Temple Institute, and why these beliefs matter for policy and the potential for catastrophic escalation.

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For listeners: This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in how U.S. and Israeli politics, religious belief, and global conflict are now tightly—perhaps dangerously—intertwined.

Transcript

[Krystal Ball]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It's stock up savings time now through March 31st. Spring in for store wide deals and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags to earn uneligible items from Lays, Jack Links, Cheez It Classico, Hidden Valley and Best Foods. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more. Enjoy savings on top of savings when you shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pickup or delivery restrictions apply. See website for terms and conditions. This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. Hey, so what if you could boost the WI fi to one of your devices when you need it most? Because Xfinity WI Fi can. And what if your wifi could fix itself before there's even really a problem? Xfinity is so reliable it does that too. What if your wifi had parental instincts? Xfinity WI Fi is part nanny, part ninja, protecting your kids while they're online. And finally, what if your wifi was like the smartest wifi? Yeah, it's WI fi that is so smart it makes everything work better together. Bottom line, Xfinity is smart and reliable. You deserve the peace of mind of having WI fi that's got your back. Xfinity Imagine that support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor support suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosure is available at public.com disclosures hey guys, Sagar and Krystal here.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.

[Krystal Ball]

This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.

[Saagar Enjeti]

So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today, and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad, free, free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

[Krystal Ball]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see [e-mail] okay, let's get to the Democrats.

[Saagar Enjeti]

All right, so you've got the elected Democrats in the Senate who are trying to figure out where to be. They oppose the War Powers Resolution, except for Fetterman, and they some of them are open to funding the war for some reason. Then you have the 2028 contenders and Gracie Gavin in particular, who has really been kind of a mess on the question of Israel and Palestine. And you'll recall when he got asked about AIPAC funding, he did that whole. That's very interesting. That's interesting. That's very interesting that you're asking this question. Well, he had an interesting response here with the Pod Save Bros and now seems to be realizing that his previous positioning on Israel of just lockstep support is going to be anathema to a Democratic base now that is fully disgusted with the genocide in Gaza, fully disgusted with our complicity, and, and really looking for politicians to be very clear on what they think about this whole situation. So take a listen to what Gavin Newsom now has to say about the state of Israel.

[Krystal Ball]

And a lot of Democrats have looked at the Netanyahu regime and felt like, you know what? We don't like the trajectory he's on. It's time to rethink the US Relationship with Israel, especially military support. Where do you stand making that easy right now? Let's talk about that. But the issue of Bibi is interesting because he's got his own domestic issues. He's trying to stay out of jail. He's got an election coming up. He's potentially on the ropes. He's got folks the hard line that want to annex the West Bank. I mean, Freeman and others are talking about it appropriately, sort of an apartheid state. They couldn't even. I mean, we're talking about regime Change. For two years, they haven't even been able to solve the Hamas question in Israel. So this is, I mean, you know, I want to be careful here, but, you know, in so many ways, that influence, in the context of the conversation of where Trump ultimately landed on this is pretty damn self evident. And so Rubio may have been saying something else in the context of what he ultimately said in terms of being sort of pulled into some of these things. But I will say this didn't surprise me in this context. Do you think looking down the road, that the United States should consider maybe, you know, rethinking our military support for Israel? It breaks my heart because the current leadership in Israel is walking us down

[Saagar Enjeti]

that path where I don't think you

[Krystal Ball]

have a choice, but that consideration, I mean, to say this is in America's interest at a time when affordability's crisis levels, where you had an administration who literally got elected saying this is exactly opposite of what they would ever consider doing. The fact that we are in this now regional war, all these proxies, the fact that we, you know, and all the grift and the corruption, that's also marks a huge part of this. And that's a real conversation. We need to have this board of peace and the peace that the Witkoff family is getting and the peace that Kushner is getting and the peace that

[Saagar Enjeti]

Trump Jr. Is getting. So two very noteworthy things there. Him calling Israel an apartheid state, or at least saying that it's appropriate to call an apartheid state is number one and number two, floating the idea of like, yeah, we may need to condition military aid. Now, of course, you listen to this statement, it's still mealy mouthed and still, oh, it's all Netanyahu's fault. When you look at the polling and like, the public, if anything is even further to the right than they're all behind this. And the faction that's running the government is in step with most of the public, et cetera. So he takes the liberal position there of like, oh, it's just this government that's the problem. But for Gavin Newsom to say those two things, five years ago, I was absolutely, it will never happen. And it just shows you how much the country has moved and specifically how much the base has moved and how important this is to people. He no longer thinks he can get away with it. And we've been seeing him in real time trying to land in a certain spot. And we continue to see him trying to figure out where to land because now we have his aides sort of walking all of this back. Our friend Zajilani highlighted these comments. Let's put this up on the screen. As to clarify Newsom's comments. Izzy Garden, a spokesman for Mr. Newsom, said the governor, quote, believes in Israel's right to exist and its right to defend itself, period. He added, the governor is calling out a difficult truth, blaming Mr. Trump and Netanyahu for taking Israel down a course that threatens the safety of Israel, a democracy and America's closest Middle east ally, as well as Israelis and American Jews. So the concern here is being framed in terms of, oh, my goodness, what they're doing is actually very risky for Israel itself and, you know, reiterating commitment that Israel has a right to defend itself and right to exist, et cetera, et cetera. So clearly he's still trying to figure this one out saga.

[Krystal Ball]

It's a little mealy mouthed, et cetera, but I mean, if you look at the core of it, look, maybe just me, the result is the only thing that matters. It's not just about the rhetoric, which he's opening the Overton window which says it's appropriate. You can call it apartheid. And two, military aid is really the only thing that matters because you could see a future centrist Democrat, let's say, like some centrist Dem gets elected, they're gonna say, I'm doing what's best for Israel, Israel's out of control, I'm gonna restrain them. I'm gonna force them to look out for their own people and not allow them to drag us or themselves into some major war. And I'm not going to enable their behavior. That's actually the way that the Bush administration and others would talk to them whenever they would get upset in some squabble about the West Bank. So I could easily see them reverting to a more realist slash, like, normal relationship with Israel. Saying Israel has a right to exist is like the easiest box check in the world. We talked about this. It's like there' or whatever. It's like they exist. Okay? Deal with it.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Right?

[Krystal Ball]

So it's like, you know, getting into, oh, right, to exist. It's like a pedantic, ridiculous conversation the Zionists, like, want to trap you into. It's like, that's not the way that you want to talk about it. The way the way that you should talk about it is, okay, it exists. Now what? How do we deal with that reality? So I could very easily see him calibrating to something like that. But nonetheless, the most important thing is shattering. I would say it is very similar to what happened to the Republican primary in 2016. Prior to 2016, nobody could say that the Iraq war was a disaster. You couldn't say it. There was nobody who was willing to say it. Trump came in, he was like, no, it's a disaster. And that opened the floodgates for all of these new politicians and others to say what everybody privately thought but which the donor class didn't want you to say. And the Bush Mafia, they could say no, actually it was a total disaster. Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, Jeb Bush, all these guys were defending it. So you can think of Zoran Mamdani and a few of these other guys as the vanguard who are willing to just say the quiet part out loud, achieve extraordinary political success and open the door in addition to global events so that Jon Favreau's of the World, Pozeve Americas and others, it's a permission structure for everybody, for Gavin Newsom to say it in polite company without seeing unhinged and that they're not gonna face a political price at least, but they will face a donor price and they're gonna have to grapple with that. That's the case.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Well, you know what's interesting about that? I was thinking about that because this week Ryan and em, you had this primary Democratic primary between Valerie Fousshee and Nita Alum and Fushi, the last, this was a rematch between these two. Previously Fushi had been major AIPAC recipient, lockstep Israel supporter. She calculated that this was going to be a problem for her in the primary because she knew Nida was there. Nida almost beat her the last time around. And so what did she do? She changed her position. She decided she was a little critical of Israel. She signed onto the Block the Bombs act and she said she wasn't going to take any APAC funding. Now they did managed to funnel APAC aligned money into her race via a Hakeem Jeffries connected super pac. So she still did benefit from that money, but it was enough that she was able to hold on. And I think if she doesn't make those two moves, there's no way because it ended up being a close race. It's actually going to recount. But you know, she's up by about a thousand votes. Very close race. If she hadn't shifted her position like that, I think there's no way that she manages to hold on. But the other thing that's interesting about that Sagar is even though she backed the Block the Bombs act, even though she Said, hey, no AIPAC funding. Even though she came out and was somewhat critical of Israel and opened up the possibility of conditioning aid, et cetera, AIPAC still funneled her money. Now, previously, their line has been, you even hint we even get a whiff of, you may say anything critical about Israel, we are not only gonna not support you, we're gonna spend against you. We're gonna do everything we can to defeat you. Now, they seem to have realized that is no longer a tenable position within the Democratic Party. And so that creates more operating space for a Gavin Newsom. I mean, this man is just a cynical weather vane, right? That's how you should look at his finger in the wind. There's no principle here. It's just him trying to read the tea leaves and being a relatively skilled operator, relatively of trying to figure out where he needs to be politically balancing the concerns of the base versus the donor class. And so I think that's part of what's going on here, too, is AIPAC has had to back down, and the Israel Lobby more broadly has had to back down from this absolutist position because they recognize they have lost the ability to enforce, to hold that line with the Democratic Party. So I think that is partly what's going on here as well, especially with regard to Gavin Newsom. But the other problem here. Let's put D5 up on the screen. So this Representative Landsman, you know, honestly, he hadn't really come across my radar before. I didn't know anything about this. Suddenly, this guy has emerged as, like, you know, he's joining in with Moskowitz and with Gottheimer on this alternative War Powers resol resolution meant to basically undercut, you know, the actual War Powers Resolution that Ro Khanna and Thomas Massie have offered. And so he decided for some reason to do this interview with Isaac Chotiner, and it did not go very well for him. So Landsman says, let me be clear. I've never trusted Trump on this, meaning war, or on the economy or on keeping us safe in general. And Chotner says, but you're trusting him on this, though, right? And Landsman says, no, Chotiner, you aren't. I'm trusting the military and our generals. I'm trusting what I understand to be the operation and the people leading it, that is, the generals and our military and our allies. By the way, the generals in the military didn't want to do this. By the way, Chotiner, you're trusting the people leading the operation who don't include the President. Well, I don't trust that guy. Yeah, he's the commander in chief, right? Sure. Yeah. But I can't trust him. And he's proven that over the past couple of days, being all over the place, unlike everybody else involved in this. So you can see here with him, another problem for Democrats who want to at least tacitly support this war, vote for the funding or vote against the War Powers Resolution or whatever, is basically because, look, Trump is the commander in chief. So de facto, if you are going along with any aspect of this, you are trusting him, you are throwing in with Trump and saying, yes, I trust that he's going to execute this in a way that's going to be responsible and reasonable and with appropriate goals in mind, blah, blah, blah. That is what you're signing up for. And that is gonna be another massive issue for any Democratic politician who goes along with any aspect of this that I do not think that they fully thought through. But Isaac Chotiner, as he does, really sort of brings together.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. I don't even know why people agree. I would never even agree to do an interview with him about anything, considering how he's behaved. But like these people, all their level of hubris and being out of touch demonstrates their ideological commitment, I think, to this project, and I think that's what we should underscore to everybody is the level of what the bipartisan elite structure looks like in Washington. And even with Gavin Newsom, I mean, as you said, he doesn't believe anything. Literally nothing. In the beginning, he was pro Israel with Ben Shapiro. Don't we have that clip, actually?

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah, we do. We've got D3 guys. So this was Newsom. This is not in the beginning. This was just a few weeks ago. Newsom with Shapiro. And Shapiro obviously is very ideological and very forceful. And Newsom just sort of like, you know, capitulates. Relates to his view specifically on whether or not this is genocide. This is D3. Let's play that.

[Krystal Ball]

This conversation, some drag, some. Some run with, you know, flags waving into the conversation of genocide. Yes. Yeah. I mean, look, Israel did not commit a genocide in Gaza. There is no standard by which Israel committed a genocide in Gaza. Just on a factual level. Just a legal and factual level. Yes. Yeah. What is your opinion of this? My opinion is I understand the tendency for people to make that. To assert that. Why? On the basis of the images and the proportionality. No, no. And by the way, I agree with

[Emily Jaszynski]

you and international, and I'm not.

[Krystal Ball]

Doesn't mean that if you kill my child, And I then kill seven criminals that I've been disproportionate. I'm not disagreeing with you. But I think the. But I understand that tendency on the basis of trying to reconcile the proportionate nature of how the war was ultimately conducted. I have a question. Why do you. Why do you feel the need to create a permission structure for that sort of stuff? I mean. Meaning it's not true. Why not just say it's not true? Yeah, look, I don't know the definition or I don't know the legal threshold. That's not my opinion. So I don't. I don't share that opinion as it relates to genocide. I do not agree with that.

[Saagar Enjeti]

So, like, this got dog walk. It's embarrassing. I mean, this is not gonna cut it, right? It's not gonna cut it. And so, I don't know. I mean, sometimes I see Gavin, like that moment with Pod Save where I'm like, oh, he. He's kind of figuring out where he needs to be. But then even in that moment, like, if they had pressed him further, he would have.

[Krystal Ball]

He's got nothing.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah. Cause he's. This is. You know, he's a very. He is a more skilled Kamala Harris, basically. He's a slicker Kamala Harris. And at the end of the day, he doesn't believe anything. And that comes through. Right. If you press him, if he's caught between what the donors want and what the. I mean, that's really the thing in any issue, when he's caught between what the donors want and what the base wants, that's where greasy Gavin comes out. And there's no squaring the circle. You know, on the billionaire tax thing, he's fighting against that in California, but that's gonna be.

[Krystal Ball]

But not in public.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Well, it's documented.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Emily Jaszynski]

It's obvious.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah. So, I mean, that's. That's going to be a problem for him. But then he says, oh, I will theoretically support some other wealth tax. There's not this one in particular. So I don't know. We'll see if he's able to navigate all this.

[Krystal Ball]

I don't know. I don't have a lot of. At the same time, I could see it both ways. I could see him winning in a landslide, like in a primary where you have a bunch of challengers. Remember 20. How many challenges were there in 2016? 17, something like that? It was a ton. It was like 17 Republican challengers. So each slice of the vote gets cut. But Gavin is the centrist. He's got the money. Governor of a large state, he wins easily. I could see that.

[Saagar Enjeti]

People like the Trump resistance.

[Krystal Ball]

People love the Trump resistance. By the way. You know, one thing from Texas, cuz we haven't had a ton of time to talk about this. Did you notice the breakdown in the vote with Talarico and Crockett? So Talarico wins all the upper middle class white liberals and the Latinos, but she won. And young people. But she. Who does she win? The black vote. Like very much with the black vote. So if you have older black people in South Carolina, if that goes first, let's say, who knows what the calendar is going to look like. I'm bullish on Gavin because it'll get the momentum from there. You won't be able to like spin off a win like in Iowa or New Hampshire, which is a very different demographic, or Michigan, any sort of battleground state. I could easily see those type of voters going for somebody more like Avin Newsom. Whereas. And that's where, you know, whoever goes first matters a ton. And then the timing of, let's say like Super Tuesday. Same thing where you've got more older black voters in some of these southern states which are all gonna vote immediately. That's very bullish, I think, for somebody like Gavin Newsom. So I think the Talarico primary is actually evidence still that there's still big splits within the traditional kind of democracy. You know, the traditional base of a Texas Democrat was like Houston black people and now, or Dallas, like suburban or urban and now the transformation of the state. And a lot of the people who voted demonstrates, I think, like a preview of what the new primary system will look like. And that's why, you know, the DNC is going to try to rig the hell out of that primary system like you have never seen before. So be on the lookout for that.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I go back and forth with ga. I can see that. Yeah, I could see that. I can also see it being like a Desantis situation. Like, oh my God, he's going to. Now, granted, you and I never bought the DeSantis type. We did not buy the DeSantis. We took a lot of incoming from people, including my own husband, who thought there was something there, there. But you know, at the end of the day, people were like, no, this is not remotely what we want. I could see that too with Gavin. Like, I think Gavin is more skilled and charismatic than DeSantis, but I could see it. So yeah, we'll see. We'll see how he's able to navigate these waters.

[Krystal Ball]

I could see the other side, right? I could see it being, you know, some sort of Jimmy Carter situation where the country wants somebody who believes something, who's totally opposite of the current political moment, a really earnest politician like the opposite of Obama. So I honestly have no clue. I could see we could be dominated by complete AI slop by that point too. So we could be screwed.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I mean, the other lesson from the Texas primary is that Jasmine Crockett, with her Trump resistance as being the core of her brand, it didn't sell outside of she won black people overwhelmingly and that was it. The rest of the coalition was all Talarico. And so, like most of the Democratic base is looking for more. So I don't know. We'll see. We'll see how it all pans out.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It's stock up savings time now through March 31st. Spring in for storewide deals and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags to earn uneligible items from Lays, Jack Links, Cheez It Classico, Hidden Valley and Best Foods. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more. Enjoy savings on top of savings. When you shop in store, store or online for easy drive up and go pickup or delivery restrictions apply. See website for terms and conditions for period protection you can put on and forget about nothing. Beats NYX leakproof underwear. North America's number one leak proof underwear brand. Let's face it, life can be unpredictable. But your leak proof underwear shouldn't be. That's why millions of people choose NYX for periods, for light leaks, for everyday freshness. NYX undies are super comfy, super absorbent and made to handle whatever your day throws at you. Day two of your period covered your daily run. No problem. That big sneeze? You know the one? Yup. We've got you. And with styles like bikinis, boy shorts, thongs and high rise plus sizes from extra small to 4XL, NYX makes it easy to find your perfect fit. Say goodbye to stress and leaks. And say hello to undies that work just as hard as you do, no matter the leak. Find the style and level of protection you [e-mail] and use code flow15 for 15% off. That's kn Ix.com code flow15 for 15% off. Nix for your leaks for your life. This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Los Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. What if your wifi was more than just WI fi? What if your wifi made everything in your whole house just work together better? Well, Xfinity WI Fi pretty much does ex powered by their best most elite high performing tech. Allow us to paint a very realistic example. Everyone in your house, everyone is on their devices at the exact same time. Gaming, working, swiping. Right. Because of course they are. And the finale of your favorite show of all time of the week is on at the exact same moment. Well, you can boost the WI fi to your device with Xfinity. And have you ever asked yourself, what if my wi fi could keep watch over my kids for me? Well, probably not, because that's a weird thing to ask yourself. But Xfinity WI fi has parenting skills, even if you sometimes forget yours. Xfinity's like, don't worry, I'll monitor the WI fi. It's completely proactive, fixing issues before they even happen. Bottom line, Xfinity is smart and reliable. You deserve the peace of mind of having WI fi that's got your back. Xfinity. Imagine that. All right, let's get to hypocrisy. Turning now. Hey Hypocrisy. A something very near and dear to my heart these days. Looking back a little bit on what did all these people say who are currently in power war with Iran whenever they had a chance to make their pitch to the American people. So we've super cut a few of the people who are currently in power and some of the things that they said in the past compare to what you see on your screens today. So without much more, let's take a listen. And I also know the cost on the American people, you know, the trillions

[Saagar Enjeti]

of dollars that we've spent since 911

[Krystal Ball]

alone on waging these wasteful regime change wars, how those wars have undermined our national security and how they have strengthened

[Emily Jaszynski]

terrorist groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda.

[Krystal Ball]

So when we talk about a potential war with Iran, which is looking like

[Saagar Enjeti]

we are walking very dangerously down that

[Krystal Ball]

path, what I think is important for the American people to know is that

[Saagar Enjeti]

a war with Iran would make the

[Krystal Ball]

war in Iraq look like a cakewalk. The devastation and the cost would be

[Emily Jaszynski]

far greater than anything we've ever experienced experience before.

[Krystal Ball]

Our interest, I think very much is in not going to war with Iran. Right. It would be huge distraction of resources. It would be massively expensive to our country. And again, I'm not saying we stick ourselves into the Middle east and start a War here. But like, we recognize, okay, Israelis, Gulf Arab states don't like Iran. So let the Israelis and the Gulf Arab states provide the counterbalance to Iran. America doesn't have to constantly police every region of the world. We should empower people to police their own regions of the world. Right? And one, we would save a lot of money. Two, we'd save a lot of focus. But unfortunately, I think Harris, she's got this weird thing where I actually think she kind of likes war. Maybe she feels like a tough guy about it. I don't know why it is. And they seem to be sort of sleepwalking us into war with Iran. It's like the dumbest of all possible worlds.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I've been a recovering NeoCon for six years now.

[Krystal Ball]

Like, the foolishness with which we ricocheted around the world, intervening think it was in our best interest, when really we just overturned the table and created something

[Saagar Enjeti]

worse in almost every single scenario has led to almost.

[Krystal Ball]

I mean, the hubris of the Pentagon

[Saagar Enjeti]

is that they want to now tell

[Krystal Ball]

other countries how to do counterinsurgency based

[Saagar Enjeti]

on what we did in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Krystal Ball]

Are you kidding me? So you really have learned nothing. Okay, nothing. So you're right, that trust, the trust there that our political leaders or our generals would have our best interests in mind is totally broken. It's totally broken. I will tell you, you're not going to have a war with me and you're not going to have a third

[Saagar Enjeti]

world war with me.

[Krystal Ball]

That I can tell you. Yeah, I'm going to turn into the Joker.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Pete's off the wagon again. Neocon relapse.

[Krystal Ball]

He's out of recovery. He's. He needs to start back into the 12. He needs to make amends first. Right? Isn't that part of that? The 12 steps?

[Saagar Enjeti]

A lot of amends to make.

[Krystal Ball]

There's a lot of amends that are currently to make, but I think the most potent one, I mean, Tulsi, Donald Trump, obviously, I mean, he's. Look, Trump actually, I would not defend. He said various different things to many people at all times. But jd, Pete, JD and Tulsi, to the most extent, are the ones who are like, yeah, you're full of shit. And that is the one, which honestly is so galling because, okay, I can say this in Tulsi. How many times do we interview this woman? I mean, a lot, right? Sat across from the desk, looked in the eyes. What did she always talk about? Being an Iraqi. A medic in Iraq. Right. She talked about brothers and sisters. I believed it maybe I'm super naive. I believed it when I looked her in the eyes and she would talk about that. I mean, she took a lot of shit. She went to Syria to meet with Assad. It was like, you know, basically got forced out of Congress, the whole donor machine. Hillary called her a traitor. Like, she suffered politically. And so to go from that. And then, by the way, can we put E2 up on the screen here where she literally was selling T shirts saying no war with Iran. You know, when we first started rising, I'd go around the country, I would meet a lot of Tulsi people, right? She spoke to a lot of folks. Whenever it came to the no war, anti war position, she went on Rogan, the no war with Iran T shirt. Like, this was a real constituency. And I remember meeting a lot of these people across the country. So now to have her as the Director of National Intelligence in the Situation Room while the war with Iran launches, it's unbelievable. Then let's take the Vice President. I mean, did you hear what he said there about it would not be in our interest? I think he believed. I mean, I used to think he believed that. Who the hell knows now? But secondary was that whole thing about Kamala, who likes. That's literally how Donald Trump and Pete Heckseth are acting right now. Pete Heckseth is literally acting like a movie character whenever he's like, we are winning. And. And screw you, media for reporting on the deaths of American soldiers. Donald Trump is like, Iran is two weeks away from a nuclear weapon. Clearly he loves the theater of limited military operations which are now spiraling out of control. It's like, oh, my God. I mean, look, again, you know, you could say, I told you so. And that's fair, certainly at this point, but I don't know. I mean, are we just never supposed to believe any politician? Like, they really. I can tell you this. In Tulsi's case, in JD's case, much more limited extent on Pete, I had been told by multiple people that he actually was scarred by his experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan and had rethought a lot of stuff on Ukraine. I said, okay, I believe you don't believe it anymore. But in a lot of these cases, and it's not just the public officials, names that you would know, I'm talking about deputies and other people all over the National Security Council. I've met these people for years. I knew. I mean, we were at conferences and other things were, no, Iran war was like anathema. That was like the one Thing we're like, we're not doing this. And so then. And to not only see them in power, but working behind the scenes to execute this, you're like, what the fuck? I mean, is this. So it was just all a joke? The whole thing was a joke? Or it's just a cult. Trump is in charge. And yeah, I mean, look, I mean, there's a lot of egg on a lot of face, mine included. I gotta tell you, it has been one of the most serially radicalized things that has ever happened to me because I've read many times in books about politicians being liars and narcissists and all. Okay, and so what do you. Do you have it? I mean, I've lived here for a long time. I had an appropriate level of skepticism. A lot of the people who were working in this White House who said that they were against war with Iran took immense, immense professional hits for being against a lot of the so called neocon consensus. So what do you conclude by that? You're like, okay, you have a track record, you must believe it. And then they come into power and it's the opposite. It's so crazy, I'll tell you that. You know, on a personal level and on a policy level, I mean, God, it's shocking. Like, I never ever, ever, ever, ever thought I would be sitting here watching this and watching these people defend it.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah. I mean, I. This is not just due and I told you so. No, it's not the point. That's not the point. But.

[Krystal Ball]

But it's fair. I deserve it. We know. I'm being serious. We deserve it. We deserve egg on our face. If we sat on the camera and we said we don't think this is going to happen and it happens. We gotta eat shit. That's how the world works. I'm sorry. And for all the people who want to move past it, we can't move past it. We have to sit. We have to grapple with reality. The people we defended and the people we thought were going to come into power, who were going to do something, did not do it. Okay? Period. End of story. And that is genuinely the greatest professional disappointment of my entire life.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I think the reason why I didn't buy into the, the peace candidate and all that stuff is because I know Trump is a liar. Many politicians are. Trump just take it to an extreme degree, let's say. But I looked at the track record from the first term where they were very hawkish towards Iran. You had the maximum he pulls down of the Iranian nuclear Deal. You have the maximum pressure campaign. You have the assassination of Qasem Soleimani, which in and of itself risked a war with Iran. And so that was the track record I looked at. And then the other piece that I looked at is, is who he was getting money from. Right. And since Mary Madison was such one of the largest donors, $100 million into his campaign, the combination of the track record and the money and the fact that, I mean, listen, I don't have a personal relationship with J.D. vance, so I just see him as a cynical political operator. All of these. Tulsi had already changed her stripes on any number of things, so I didn't take her seriously either. RFK Jr are you kidding me? What a joke. Obviously, he shapeshifted a million times. And so the reason I'm saying this is just for the future, for all of us. As we evaluate, okay, candidates that we like and what they're saying versus what they're likely to do, the things to look at are, what's the track record and where does the money come from? Because at the end of the day, those are going to be the things. And then you layer the Epstein files on top of. That's another factor that I don't think I fully processed, you know, how potent that would be in terms of apparently getting us to this place. So that was how I was ultimately looking at it going in. But I have tons of empathy for people, especially like regular people who don't follow this stuff day in and day out, who were watching the Biden Harris ticket commit genocide in Gaza.

[Krystal Ball]

Liz Cheney.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Kamala's campaign with Liz Cheney. She went out of her way to do her whole most lethal military ever. And I went after transnational gangs or whatever. She tried to do the whole I'm hawkish too posturing, and you've got all this peace candidate rhetoric coming from the Trump campaign. It took looking back at knowing the track record and knowing where the money was coming from. And Trump, as to your point, Zachary, he was never consistent about what he was gonna do.

[Krystal Ball]

Can I explain this? Because this is important. So when we just talked about Soleimani and all this, here was the experiment, and this is what I believed. I always thought Trump was a retard. I'm be honest. Okay, Literal, retro. But what did. What had come away from the first Trump administration? The people around Trump, the staff made the decision, right? Basically. So you had John Bolton, Jeb Mattis, Jim Kelly, all the. Or, sorry, John Kelly, all these people.

[Emily Jaszynski]

Okay?

[Krystal Ball]

So the promise was. And this was the Project. The project was we're gonna replace those people so we have better policy. And the idea is Trump is basically like this archetype who gives shits about the ballroom and not much else. And then the staff will run the show. That's what I thought was gonna happen based on the first term. Okay. And so what did I know? I knew the people working in the. So, yeah, money and all that. Look, I always knew the Israel thing. You can go back and check what I said. I literally said, if you're pro Israel, you should vote for Trump. And if you're pro. I was like, if you're pro Palestine, you should not vote for Trump. Go back and look at what I said. October of 2024. I remember that we were all very clear eyed, but we had a belief in two things. Ukraine and definitely Iran. And the reason why was that the new cash flow people, the type of people, the Vice President included, led a project in the United States Senate and behind the scenes for years, specifically against Ukraine and Iran. Yes, I was there. I remember it. And so there you go. That's where the belief, the belief came from. Well, you did this, this and this. You took a lot of hits professionally over the years, even picked fights, organized this entire group and staff of people who all told us over the years that you were going to do something. And then you came into office and now you're doing the opposite. Right. And look, let's be also fair in this regard. Trump is a big boy and maybe he just wanted to do it, maybe these people were against it, I don't know. But at the very least, it's not just that you couldn't stop it, but then you have these people who are out there defending it. And the truth is, is that not only have we watched how people are so untethered from what they previously said in the past, but that they're willing to literally go and openly humiliate themselves on television. So, so do we have like the Stephen Miller. I think you were about to toss that.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Do you have to show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. E5. I mean, and this is too. I think Stephen Miller is actually an important character, we'll just call it in all of this. But I mean, he was as clear as he could be here. The first one he's responding to, Janky says, I don't know how I can be more clear. Trump will end and prevent war in the Middle East. He wants peace. Harris and her neocon cabinet want war and more war. Another one, Kamala, will send your sons to war. Another one. If young men don't want to be drafted to fight in Kamala's and Cheney's Third World War, they better get out and vote for Trump. Another one, Kamala's top military advisor is Liz Cheney. If Kamala wins, Liz and Dick are running foreign policy, and they will invade the Middle East. Okay, now, I think another thing. Stephen Miller is extremely influential. Extremely influential. They call him the prime minister internally. We got a glimpse early on in those signal conversations when they're debating about the Yemen strikes, and Stephen Miller comes in and says, the boss wants this. So we're doing it, and it's end of story. No one says a word or a peep. There are no more objections raised. That's it. It's a done deal. And Stephen Miller is a racist who absolutely hates Muslims. And I think that is a part of the story here internally of what's going on. You have not only him, but we're gonna talk with Emily about Pete Hegsack, who's, like, wrote a whole book about how he's itching to do Crusades 2.0 because he wants American Christian warriors to fight against the Muslim hordes. And so that is an important strain of ideology in this administration as well. But there's no doubt that they lied to the American people. We talked, we did focus groups with the AOC Trump voters, and I was surprised. You know, I thought Gaza was important, but I was surprised at how many of them brought up war and peace and not just Gaza. They genuinely believed some of the rhetoric coming from Stephen Miller. And I mean, it is fair for people who are looking at this to have some belief. And you've got all of these figures within Trump world saying, absolutely not. No more war with Iran. We gotta learn the mistakes in the past, blah, blah, blah, to put some credence in that, even as you know that Trump is a liar, blah, blah, blah. So it is a disgusting betrayal. It's not that it was not predictable. Many people did predict it, saw it coming, et cetera. But that is true. And it is also true that it is an extraordinary betrayal of the American people and what many people, many people genuinely thought that they were voting for with this administration.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, exactly. And look, put E7 up there on the screen. They said there was a peace ticket. Now you could say, okay, yeah, you shouldn't have believed it. I just gave you the whole thought process. I'm not even gonna say, oh, they're super anti war. Never believe that. I said, okay, though. Two things which are actually winnable are Iran and Ukraine, those are the two things I was like, I think we can get that based on Trump and everybody else who was coming into the administration. There were some early signs, the Steve Wyckoff stuff. Remember ceasefire with Israel? That was good. You're like, oh, okay. And then we start to get to where we are. It was pretty obvious by Midnight Hammer that they were totally in control. And from what I've heard, Tulsi, I mean, I'll give her a little bit of credit. She spoke up against a 12 day war from what I know. Guess what? She got news basically, do not invite to Venezuela.

[Saagar Enjeti]

She has to resign.

[Krystal Ball]

And now she's crawling her way back.

[Saagar Enjeti]

She has to resign because her whole brand, she literally sold T shirts that said no warm.

[Krystal Ball]

But she's got nothing left now. She's done all right. Her only chance is to continue to suck up to Trump.

[Saagar Enjeti]

The only she needs. I mean, if she wants to preserve any shred of dignity, soul, whatever, you would have to resign. But apparently that shred of dignity has already.

[Krystal Ball]

If anything, she's gone all in. I hope she got a lot of money from those T shirts because when the Democrats are in power and this Fulton county stuff is happening, I hope you have a lot of money to survive some subpoenas. You're gonna be looking at 2, $300,000 in legal bills from whenever that comes. So good luck to you to the Gabbard family. But if you think also about all the others, I'll make the case. Right. And this is what I always hear behind the scenes. What are they supposed to do? They can't do anything. They don't have any real power bullshit. In my opinion, Tulsi, you can resign. There are a lot of other people, Pete Hegseth and others, I mean, they literally said the opposite it in cases. And look, to be fair, there were also clips of them floating around out there where they were very hawkish. Pete in particular, I chose not to believe it. There are many people who assured interviews and other the positioning, they're like it has changed. It's legitimately different. I mean, Stephen Miller is on television today. Trump Doctrine inside isolationism. America first does not mean America alone. We're all our great powerful military Iran. To be honest, I mean, I actually think he was against some of the war previously. I remember talking to the people who knew him. I mean that's why it's so crazy. But what you have to do now is it's all about just pleasing Trump. And from that point, Trump, I guess Trump has literally in many cases, almost never inserted absolute and total control over any real foreign policy portfolio. He really was relatively blank slate, dealmaker, et cetera. Again, that's why I thought the staff would be highly, highly influential. But clearly on Iran, he was the. The primary mover here. I don't think he was pushed into this. I just want to be that very clear. He was the person who made the ultimate decision. And I'm still trying to figure out that story.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Right.

[Krystal Ball]

I still don't know.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I feel like he also has bought into some of the, like, messianic hype around him himself after surviving the assassination

[Krystal Ball]

in Night Hammer 2 in Venezuela. It's like you said, I mean, he's a gambler who keeps. He's like, on a hot roll on a craps table like he keeps. But ultimate. Again, if you read enough history, it's like, oh, my God, stunning success, stunning success, stunning success. And you start to believe all the hype, and then, boom, you slam into a brick wall and then you invade Russia. Right. What ends up happening to you?

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, it's. I think he's. He talks about his own mortality a lot.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Lately he's thinking. He apparently does not believe he'll be getting into heaven. Based on what he said, I would say if there is a heaven, I think that's probably pretty accurate assessment. And he's thinking about his legacy. And so along with, you know, some stupid arch and fricking ballroom and the drapes, the other thing that he wants to establish as his legacy is, like, these wars. That's what he's decided. That's his way to make his mark on the world. And so here we are. And that's a good transition to talking about some of the. I can't even call them religious undercurrents because at this point, point, it's such a dominant talking point. And for me, as someone who is like, I'm not a religious person, totally secular person, I don't factor in when I'm thinking about geopolitics that you have these, like, fanatical religious zealots who are ideologically committed to this, like, end times ideology, many of whom are in. In high positions of power here in Israel. And also, like, Iran is literally a theocracy. And so we wanted to bring in Emily to, you know, to shed some light on the specifics of what this ideology is and just how influential it has been in bringing us to this place.

[Krystal Ball]

Let's get to it. Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It's stock up savings time now through March 31st. Bring in for store wide deals and earn four times the point points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible items from Oreo, Haagen, Dazs, Charmin, Tide, Sparkling Ice, Reese's and Special K. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more. Enjoy savings on top of savings when you shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pickup or delivery restrictions apply. See website for terms and conditions for period protection. You can put on and forget about nothing Beats NYX Leak Proof Underwear North America's number one leak proof underwear brand. Let's face it, life can be unpredictable, but your leak proof underwear shouldn't be. That's why millions of people choose NYX for periods, for light leaks, for everyday freshness. NYX undies are super comfy, super absorbent and made to handle whatever your day throws at you. Day two of your period covered your daily run. No problem. That big sneeze? You know the one? Yup. We've got you. And with styles like bikinis, boy shorts, thongs and high rise plus sizes from extra small to 4 XL NYX makes it easy to find your perfect fit. Say goodbye to stress and leaks and say hello to undies that work just as hard as you do no matter the leak. Find the style and level of protection you [e-mail] and use code FLOW15 for 15% off. That's K-N-I X.com code FLO15 for 15% off. Nix for your leaks for your life. This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistos with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. What if your WI fi was more than just WI fi? What if your wi fi made everything in your whole house just work together better? Well, Xfinity WI Fi pretty much does exactly that. It's powered by their best, most elite high performing tech. Allow us to paint a very realistic example. Everyone in your house, everyone is on their devices at the exact same time. Gaming, working, swiping. Right? Because of course they are. And the finale of your favorite show of all time of the week is on at exact same moment. Well, you can boost the WI fi to your device with Xfinity. And have you ever asked yourself, what if my WI fi could keep watch over my kids for me? Well, probably not because that's a weird thing to ask yourself. But Xfinity WI fi has parenting skills, even if you sometimes forget yours. Xfinity's like, don't worry. I'll monitor the WI fi. It's completely proactive, fixing issues before they even happen. Bottom line, Xfinity is smart and reliable. You deserve the peace of mind of having wifi that's got your back. Xfinity. Imagine that.

[Saagar Enjeti]

So, guys, increasingly, American officials and military commanders are framing our war with Iran in religious holy war terms. You also obviously have the Israelis framing things in religious terms. You have the Iranians, which is literally a theocracy. So to help us understand what the hell is going on with all of this, we could think of no one better than our own co host, Emily Jaszynski, who also is is host of Afterparty with Emily. Great to see Emily.

[Krystal Ball]

Good to see you, Em.

[Emily Jaszynski]

Thanks for having me, guys.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah, of course. I need you to explain all of this to me because it's very disturbing and very confusing to me. So I'm just gonna run through a bunch of things that have just happened on the American Christian nationalist side, and you can break down for me, you know, what they're thinking, how deep this ideology goes, et cetera. So let's go ahead and start here with Lindsey Graham, who has been a primary mover and shaker in terms for years, but especially under this Trump administration, pushing towards this war. And he is explicitly framing it as a religious war. Let's take a listen to that.

[Krystal Ball]

This is a religious war. Who wins it at the end of the day? To the radical Islamic terrorists who want to kill all the Jews because God told them to, who want to kill me because I'm an infidel, who want to purify Islam to reject moderation and make everybody a jihadist. This is a big deal. I'll deal with section 230. So what we're facing right now is a moment of decision that will set the course of the future of the Mideast for a thousand years.

[Saagar Enjeti]

It's a religious war. And if that's not enough for you, here is speaker of the House Mike Johnson framing this also in terms of his problems with the Iranians.

[Krystal Ball]

Religious they have been, and they say the quiet parts out loud. They wanted to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, and they'd like to take us out as well. We're the great Satan in their analogy and their misguided religion, and there was no way to appease them.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Misguided religion. Okay, we've got Senator Kramer when confronted by codepink activist Medea Benjamin, also talking about Our religious obligations to Israel. Let's listen to that.

[Krystal Ball]

Listen.

[Saagar Enjeti]

The United States and Israel, our ironclad

[Krystal Ball]

partners, we need them in the Middle East.

[Emily Jaszynski]

We need them to be strong.

[Krystal Ball]

We have a biblical responsibility to them as well as an allied responsibility. Israel.

[Saagar Enjeti]

We should never. We should never sever that relationship. Biblical responsibility to Israel. This United States Senator obviously just took a vote on War Powers Resolution. He says our responsibilities there are biblical. Let's take a look at F6. There is a report that military commanders, multiple of them, are telling Trump troops that President Trump has been anointed by Jesus to light the signal fire in Iran to Kara's Armageddon and mark his return to Earth. So you have a bunch of complaints coming in to nonprofit organizations saying that, you know, this whole separation of church and state thing is not being held true to. As you have a number of military commanders framing this war as, you know, a biblical religious conflict. You have the.

[Emily Jaszynski]

The.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Let's do F5 next, guys. This is Paula White. This is Trump's spiritual advisor. To get a sense of the, you know, what's going on here behind the scenes, the type of spiritual guidance that the President of the United States is receiving. Let's listen to that.

[Krystal Ball]

Strike and strike and strike and strike and strike and strike and strike and

[Emily Jaszynski]

strike and strike and strike.

[Krystal Ball]

Until you have victory for every enemy

[Saagar Enjeti]

that is aligned against you.

[Krystal Ball]

Let there be that we would strike the ground for you will give us victory. God, I hear a sound of abundance of rain.

[Emily Jaszynski]

I hear a sound of victory.

[Krystal Ball]

I hear a sound of shouting and singing.

[Emily Jaszynski]

I hear a sound of victory.

[Krystal Ball]

Angels are being dispatched right now. For angels have even dispatched from Africa right now. Africa right now. Africa right now.

[Saagar Enjeti]

From Africa right now. And finally, the secretary.

[Emily Jaszynski]

Have you seen the remix of that

[Krystal Ball]

clip, by the way?

[Saagar Enjeti]

I have not, but I would like to.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, send it over.

[Emily Jaszynski]

They're bangers.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Finally, the Secretary of War, Pete Hegseth, who has the crusader cross, he was deemed an extremist and not allowed to participate in protection for the Biden inauguration because of his tattoos. Here he is talking about some of this biblical prophecy, including the miracle of reconstructing the third temple of Solomon. He also reportedly, at a bar previously was chanting, kill all Muslims. So this is our Secretary of War, Pete Hexeth.

[Krystal Ball]

And today, Jennifer and I and others had a chance to go see the western wall of the Temple Mount, the western wall tunnels, so much of the old city. And as you stand there, you can't help but behold the miracle before you. And it got me thinking about Another miracle that I hope all of you don't see too far away, because 1917 was a miracle. 1948 was a miracle. 1967 was a miracle. 2017, the Declaration of Jerusalem as the capital was a miracle. And there's no reason why the miracle of the reestablishment of the Temple on the Temple Mount is not possible. I don't know how it would happen. You don't know how it would happen. But I know that it could happen.

[Saagar Enjeti]

So Emily, why is this increasingly being framed as a religious conflict, holy war from the American side?

[Emily Jaszynski]

Well, what's interesting about that last Hegseth clip is that was around the time where the embassy was moved officially by the first Trump administration to Jerusalem. And that's when we saw a lot of this flaring up as well. A lot of people speaking just like Hegseth did. And Heath in that clip is, is somewhat careful. He doesn't say why there should be a third Temple, which from the dispensationalist position. So if you're an evangelical Christian, there's a sect, it's sort of in, it's sort of informal, it's taught in some seminaries. But it's kind of a pop culture thing too. There's a movement called dispensationalism and it's been around a while. It's had waning popularity in America through different periods. But it's not just about the end times and but basically prescribes different dispensations of history. And one of those dispensations would be the third Temple getting rebuilt and that ushering in the end times. And one of the easiest ways to think about it is you substitute everywhere in scripture for pol where everywhere you see in scripture Israel, you substitute that for the, the nation, the current nation of Israel. So political Israel. And if you read scripture that way that the nation of Israel that was established in the last 100 years, you can see why people, especially when the embassy was being moved to Jerusalem, look at this in evangelical circles as being fulfillment of scripture. Now I'm a non denominational evangelical. I grew up Missouri centered Lutheran. So we weren't dispensationalist. But it was a huge pop culture movement at the time in the 90s. And so a lot of people in conservative Christian circles grew up with like the left behind books, the movies, they're very, they were very popular at the time. And Pete Hex's church is not dispensationalist. I don't know where he was going to Church in 2018. I think that's why he was careful with it. So some of this is flirting with people who are dispensationalists. The movement has kind of been WANING since the 90s, since the, the early aughts. There aren't a ton of people like even. There aren't a ton of people I know in evangelical circles who are still dispensationalist my age. But it's a lot of, of boomers, a lot of people who, you know, that's, that's how they've always seen Israel. The last thing I'll just add on this point because there's a lot more to talk about. But the last thing I'll add on this point is if you grew up, you know, part of your, part of your life, there wasn't a country called Israel. Then again, you could see how it's easy to read into some of this, the fulfillment of Scripture, when suddenly there is a country called Israel that can kept surviving after all of this conflict. So that's where some of this is coming from. I think it is theologically very misguided. But that's a little bit of the background on like the movement that fuels some of this.

[Krystal Ball]

But let's get into the nitty gritty. So Tucker did a whole episode about this today, which I also recommend people go and listen to. Why would the third. Why do they even want the third template to be built? Because as he was saying, it's actually kind of violates their own scripture about the way that they see Jesus as the coming of God. But it's very important in the Torah and to the rebuilding of the temple to like Jewish theology and that there's kind of basically an intersection within the dispensationalist framework about bringing about the end times and apocalypse and the return of Christ earth. So get into some of that because, you know, know obviously not exactly my area of expertise.

[Emily Jaszynski]

No, that's exactly right, because that's part of this big debate in Christian circles about dispensations. So there's something called premillennial dispensationalism. There's something called post millennial dispensationalism, and then there's amillennials. But what that means is you're reading into scripture and a lot of these prophetic verses are. They're vague. And that's part of the, I think theological problem with carving out dispensations is it's very clear in the Gospels, for instance, that you're not going to know there will be Signs, but you're not going to know. So if you're reading really specific things into the dispensations, I mean, my perspective on that is it's, it's not prescribed in the Gospels. It's not the way that Christ talked about the end times, but there are different dispensations. So if you're a premillennial dispensationalist, you believe that this ushers in a millenarian time where Christ returns and the Jews are. Ryan will, will say, you know, a lot of Christians, he, he, he'll say it's like using Jewish people as cannon fodder for the Apocalypse. That's, that's how Ryan's described it before. I think the, the charitable way that a lot of evangelicals would say it is actually that they believed the Jewish people are going to be protected and are going to be by when Christ returns, are going to be ushered in to the true church with Jesus. And that's where this particular plot of land, which is Temple Mount, as you mentioned, Sagar, if you have a third temple, then Christ returns. It's a sign of the return. And you can read into Daniel, you can read into the book of Revelation, you can read into all kinds of different prophecies. I mean, that's why numbers 19, the red heifer, which Ryan and I have covered before, uh, that's why there's the Temple Institute in Jerusalem that is preparing things like the Ark of the Covenant to exact biblical proportions, the red heifer to exact biblical proportions, because they believe they want to reenter the temple and you can't without the red heifer, for example. So that means that they're fully intent on building the third Temple, which then brings us into conflict obviously with Islam, where you have the Dome of the Rock, Al Aqsa, on that exact same territory, and people who are willing to fight to the death, death to protect that from being rebuilt. So a little bit of a tangent, but basically there are dispensations that people believe in and part of it is the Jewish people rebuilding the third Temple, that ushering in the apocalyptic reign of Christ.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah, well, and look, here's my thing. It's a free country. People can believe whatever they want to believe. It becomes my problem when policymakers are asserting that this ideology is being used to justify another endless war in the Middle East. Partly, I think all of us have been trying to read the tea leaves and get whatever intel we can read the reporting about what is going on here. Why, even though the political people and the military People and all our allies in the region and the Europeans are like, don't do this. Why we still did this. And I'm curious for your view on how influential this religious ideological view is, like, how many people in high levels of the Trump administration are in favor of this war because they want to, like, precipitate the end times, like these military commanders are telling our troops.

[Emily Jaszynski]

You know, I wonder about that, too. I, I think it's sort of less the dispensationalists and more the people who believe that. You have to see some. It's overlaps with dispensationalism, but people who believe that you have to literally interpret Israel as the modern nation state of Israel in scripture. So that's where I would look at a Pete Hegseth, for example, and say, I don't think that he's a dispensationalist. He goes to Doug Wilson's church. I don't think he believes that we have some moral obligation to usher in this dispensation of the end times. I do think he believes very strongly that everywhere we see Israel in scripture, we're not just talking about the lowercase and nation of the Jewish people. We are talking about the literal political nation state of modern Israel. And I do think there are a lot of people. Mike Huckabee, and Huckabee has played very carefully with dispensationalist rhetoric. My strong guess is that Mike Huckabee is a dispensationalist, but he's also like, I've, I've gone back to when he ran for president in the 08 cycle to try and decode and get him like, explicitly saying, talking like a dispensationalist. He does talk like a dispensationalist, but he's been careful to whether or not to like, fully embrace that politically. But I'm, I'm pretty sure Mike Huckabee, you could probably put him in that vein. You can definitely put him in the vein of somebody who substitutes the nation of Israel in scripture for the modern political nation state of Israel. And I actually think that's probably even more powerfully driving the people in the Trump administration's policy toward Israel. We know Donald Trump doesn't. I mean, Paula White could say whatever she wants. Donald Trump, he doesn't believe any of it. He thinks it's wacky. There's like, no question in my mind.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, it's like a people around alliance. But I mean, the speaker of the House, you know, you've Got a senators. We just played for you. They believe this stuff inside Israel too. Wanted to flag this. Like you said about the Temple Institute. This is big. Let's go ahead and put F7 up on the screen. So here you have soldiers of the IDF and they're tweeting out the Temple Institute saying soldiers of the IDF are fighting with all their might, hearts and souls for the land of Israel, the people of Israel, and the God of Israel. This soldier made that clear when he attached an arm patch depicting the holy temple and the word devir, ancient Hebrew for the holy of holies. Can we show the patch, guys? Guys, please. Just to show everybody what they have on their arm. And then you also had previously members of the IDF and others put, for example, like Greater Israel patches on their uniform to signify what they are voting for. So can you explain why this is so significant? Like you just said to these Temple Institute, what is the Temple Institute? Why is it so powerful?

[Emily Jaszynski]

Yeah, the Temple Institute is a really important aspect of all of this because it's this physical manifestation of the theology here of people, I would argue, like a Ben Gavir who goes and prays on the Temple Mount. So that's not. You're not supposed to do that, but has been pushing the limits. Pushing the limits, pushing the limits. This is actually what was cited by Hamas when they talked about Operation, what, Al Aqsa Flood. That is what they called October 7th. And part of their justification for that awful, awful attack was that they saw encroachment on this area. And so that's where this gets really, like, politically and on a human level, very scary, because this is sacred ground, obviously, to three faiths and eschatologically significant for three faiths. So for people who are supportive of the Temple Institute, which is funded by billionaires, they have literally been going through the exact specifications and verses like numbers 19. They have been, you know, you mentioned the holiest of holies. That's supposed to be in the Temple. That's where God resides, in the Temple. That's where you have to build that place. This is throughout the Old Testament. You build that place for God. The this is the Ark of the Covenant has been built to specifications by the Temple Institute. They have made preparations for Israel to take that ground, basically, and rebuild the Third Temple. So it's actually not a crazy abstract thing. This is in motion. It is fundamental by politically significant billionaires. And people try to keep. My sense is that in Israel, far right politicians try to kind of keep a little bit of distance from it. Because it's such a hot, hot, hot kinetic question from the Temple Institute itself. But this is happening and there are people who are obviously supportive of it. And so if Israel were to get this ground, they would be rebuilding the Third Temple and expecting in some cases to be like operating with Third Temple Judaism, like, immediately. And I think a lot of far right Jews absolutely would support that. Religious Jews would, would absolutely support that. I mean, it is in their scripture. So that's where this can come to a head very, very quickly in very, very ugly ways.

[Saagar Enjeti]

And do those donors overlap with Republican Party or Donald Trump donors?

[Emily Jaszynski]

My guess is probably the Washington Post did a long story back in 2013 on who was funding the Temple Institute. And, and I would assume that some of the same people have since been active in the Trump world. One of the reasons I would assume that is because we saw again, some of this overlap when he moved the embassy to Jerusalem. That was. And then obviously with Mike Huckabee now being the ambassador, he's not just an advisor. He's not just like Paula White. He's literally the ambassador to Israel, which is. Yeah, so. Yes, I would assume so. But it's, I think they try to be kind of low key. So it's hard to know exactly.

[Saagar Enjeti]

One person who hasn't been that low key about certain of his views is Pete Hegseth. Just to go back to him, because he is the Secretary of War, reportedly, I don't know if it's true or not. He's pushing for a ground invasion in Iran. He wrote a book in 2020 called American Crusade. In it, he argued that, quote, Christian crusaders pushed back the Muslim Hordes in the 12th century. American crusaders will need to muster the same courage against Islamists today. And so he's been quite explicit about his view for that he wants another like Crusades 2.0 and that he views it in explicitly religious terms. So talk to us about what we know about his ideology as he is clearly a key influential figure behind the scenes making important decisions about how this all unfolds.

[Emily Jaszynski]

And just by the way, while you were saying that, Crystal, I did look up some of the Temple Mount donors. Yes, the instinct that you had is correct. It's not entirely surprising overlap with Trump world. One of them actually quit the Columbia University Board of directors over post 10-7-things on that campus. So Hexeth, I think, I mean, this is again, right now, post October 7th, there are people who are actually in the bucket that are critical of Israel from a Christian perspective that might be more like Aligned with actually Tucker on this, but who are frustrated with Tucker for urging more. I don't even know what the right word is. Tolerance of Islam. Maybe that's the right way to put it because, you know, the broad Dreary writes about this a lot. He's an orthodox Christian, but he writes about how the civilizational conflict between Islam and Christianity is inevitably coming to a head in the 21st century. So Hexith is in that bucket. I think it's not necessarily an eschatological end times type thing, but it is definitely Christianity has been too permissive of the spread of Islam would be the line for. For too long and are you need to sort of prepare for that fight because it's inevitably surging in the years ahead. That's how I would describe the perspective of people like Pete.

[Krystal Ball]

I think that makes sense. Yeah. Well, crazy stuff, at least from my perspective. You know, like he says, free country. You can believe anything you would believe. Like it is a little worrying whenever it starts to affect our foreign policy. Go ahead.

[Emily Jaszynski]

Well, I was just going to say also we didn't even cover the eschatological perspective of like the irgc, which has in recent years been looking specifically at a lot of this as like the. The matism and the 12th Imam. And we could have Muslim guests explain this better than I can. But that particular slice of land which is in contest right now is so tied up in some extremist eschatologies, some mainstream eschatologies around the world. So it' such a fragile situation is.

[Krystal Ball]

I think next week you have a guest on.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I do want to ask you one question about that though, because obviously we assassinated Ayasolah, who was not only a political leader but also a Shia religious leader. You know, I've seen some analysis that, you know, basically like, okay, you've. You've now turned this guy who was an old man and probably dying within the year, you've now turned him into a martyr. And this is going to have significance for Shia Muslims not only in Iran, but across the region. You may see some signs of that already since we have riots in Bahrain, which is sort of a 50, 50 roughly Muslim, Shia Muslim country. So what do you make of that analysis and the significance of our assassination of the ayatollah?

[Emily Jaszynski]

Yeah, stuff about like Mazism is often peddled by neoconservatives who are pushing for exactly what just happened. War with Iran and heightened conflict with Iran. I look at that as actually evidence to the contrary, which is that you are not going to Bomb away this theology that is now deeply ingrained by your own arguments in the IRGC, which is, you know, it's not 100% support of Iranians. Of course not. But it's not an insignificant portion of the country either. We've seen people weeping in the streets over the death of the Ayatollah. So it's not like you're bombing away entire swathes of Iran that are supportive of the Ayatollah and this theology. So that, to me is also, I mean, completely, completely backwards. But it's. You end up again with potential for an ISIS to come out of a power vacuum where you have radicalized people who are even. Because I feel like this just confirmed what the Ayatollah was saying about him being a martyr and him being a. A historic religious figure, which obviously he is, but in that kind of theological sense as well. So it's so dangerous. It's so dangerous. And that has been used as evidence why we should act.

[Krystal Ball]

Act.

[Emily Jaszynski]

I think it's scary that you would have anybody with nuclear weapons who has that eschatological claim on the land. There are many countries at this point who have people in their countries with those types of beliefs. United States, Israel. So missiles in the hands of people who believe that destruction of. Of Jewish people helps bring about the mazi, who helps bring about that dispensation in Islamic theology. No, it's not comfortable to the rest of the world either. But did you just make the. That more potent, serious question, obviously. Serious question, yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

And what I had read is, I mean, look, I don't know. He's 80. He was 86 right. When he died. But he had multiple quotes on the record where he's like, my greatest fear is at all. Like, don't have it. Exactly. But he was like, my greatest fear is I'll die of old age and I won't get to be a martyr. And so he was like a year left. He basically said something like that. He's like, my greatest fear is I wanted to die as a martyr. And he did. Right. And now he did. And so now what? And so you've got all these Shia Muslims in Iraq, in Bahrain and elsewhere. We're going to look at who knows who they're going to elect. There's some reporting now that his own son might be selected, even though the Ayatollah himself had put up, like, he had said some things about how he didn't want, like, familial succession necessarily, but they might do it as a political statement. I mean, if you killed my father and what didn't they kill his granddaughter and his daughter and so my sister and his wife, you know, her wife's daughter and all that, what do you think my beliefs are to going to be right? It doesn't take a genius at a personal level and then combine that with religious faith. One of the most important Shia leaders in the world to say, oh man, you know, this could have some serious consequences. Anyway, Emma, we've talked for a long time. Thank you. We appreciate it. You're our religion correspondent. Thank you guys so much for watching. We appreciate it. Great Friday show for everybody tomorrow we will see you all then. As a reminder, we have our promo going on. Let's put it up there on the screen. Screen BP Free 26@breaking points.com Yep.

[Saagar Enjeti]

And guys, so appreciate all of your support. Wanted to make sure that everybody who wants to have access to everything can have access to everything. So make sure and avail yourself of that free month trial and we'll see you guys tomorrow.

[Krystal Ball]

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[Saagar Enjeti]

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[Krystal Ball]

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[Emily Jaszynski]

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[Krystal Ball]

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[Saagar Enjeti]

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