← Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
4/1/25: Trump Tariff Blowback, Trump Frees Crypto Fraudsters, Bibi Confirms Trump Gaza Plan, Tim Dillon Rips Deportations, Trump University Crackdown
01:20:38
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- [00:01]
Unknown Host
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- [01:06]
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- [01:38]
Crystal Ball
Sagar and Crystal here.
- [01:39]
Sagar Enjeti
Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.
- [01:46]
Crystal Ball
This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.
- [01:52]
Sagar Enjeti
So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.
- [02:03]
Crystal Ball
We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breakingpoints.com Good morning everybody. Happy Tuesday. We have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have Crystal?
- [02:15]
Sagar Enjeti
Indeed we do. We have a lot that we're going to try to get through this morning. So we're taking a look, of course, at those tariffs. What are they going to be? They'll be instituted tomorrow on, quote unquote, a liberation day. So looking at what we know and what the fallout is likely to be, Trump just pardoned a whole, whole rash of fraudsters. The details are really quite stunning. So we'll get into that. Everybody from Hawk to a girl, well, I guess she didn't get a pardon, but her action was stupid, no charges filed. Whatever. She got a woman, a Hunter Biden associate. That one is particularly grotesque. So give you all the details there. Coffeezilla is also all over that one. Bibi is now saying that their plan for Gaza is Trump's plan. Complete ethnic cleansing. So we are getting some clarity about the horrors that will continue to be perpetrated in the Gaza Strip. Trump is threatening to bomb Iran. So that's cool and great and looking good. I'm taking a look at Elon's election lies and what they could mean. Faz Shakir is going to join us to talk about the Stop Oligarchy tour and where it may be headed and where the Democratic Party may be headed. And we had to put this in Elon. Baby mama drama. Ashley St. Clair posts a video. They're going back and forth on Twitter. Laura Loomer's involved, whatever. So we'll try to get that in at the end of the show.
- [03:28]
Crystal Ball
Gotta get my tabloid fixed in here at the end of the show. I mean. Yeah, it's just too good, right, Folks, we can't look away. It's one of those things.
- [03:34]
Sagar Enjeti
I saw someone to the character of the man who's running the country right now, let's say.
- [03:37]
Crystal Ball
Sure. Yeah, we could say that. All right, let's go ahead. Oh, by the way, happy April Fool's Day. Isn't this funny? You know, when you're a kid, you think April Fool's Day is like a real thing. And then you become an adult and you're like, oh, it's just a normal day. She's gotta go to work.
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Sagar Enjeti
Youngest is obsessed with April Fool's Day. That's what I mean.
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Crystal Ball
When are you wild?
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Sagar Enjeti
She loves.
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Crystal Ball
She has this mystifying.
- [03:52]
Sagar Enjeti
For her birthday, she asks for like a whole prank kit.
- [03:55]
Crystal Ball
Yeah, that's.
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Sagar Enjeti
She loves pranking people.
- [03:57]
Crystal Ball
Yeah, exactly.
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Sagar Enjeti
Like little harmless stuff, you know?
- [03:59]
Crystal Ball
Yeah. I don't know.
- [03:59]
Sagar Enjeti
It's one of those things where putting a fake snake on the bed or.
- [04:02]
Crystal Ball
You become 23, you go to work and you're like, oh, it's just April 1st. It's like you have to do the water cooler thing and be like, have a good day today.
- [04:09]
Sagar Enjeti
But make sure you are extra aware of what sort of news you're being fed today because people do love on Twitter to make some wild shit up.
- [04:18]
Crystal Ball
That is true.
- [04:19]
Sagar Enjeti
See who will believe it. So be on extra guard today for.
- [04:23]
Crystal Ball
That'S not even April Fools. That's just a normal day on Twitter. That's another normal day on Elon's Twitter.
- [04:28]
Sagar Enjeti
Great.
- [04:29]
Crystal Ball
Great. For us in the news business, let's go ahead and get to these tariffs. We've got some new announcements or indications there from the White House. White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt speaking on the topic. Let's take a listen.
- [04:40]
Sagar Enjeti
We have another big week on Wednesday.
- [04:42]
Unknown Host
It will be Liberation Day in America.
- [04:44]
Sagar Enjeti
As President Trump has so proudly dubbed it. We'll be announcing a tariff plan that.
- [04:50]
Unknown Host
Will roll back the unfair trade practices.
- [04:52]
Sagar Enjeti
That have been ripping off our country for decades. I'll let the President get into the.
- [04:56]
Unknown Host
Specifics of the announcement, but he has a brilliant team of trade advisors.
- [04:59]
Sagar Enjeti
You have Secretary Besant, Secretary Lutnick like that.
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Crystal Ball
Steve, any exemptions for farmers being considered for these tariffs?
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Sagar Enjeti
No exemptions at this time.
- [05:08]
Crystal Ball
Liberation Day. No exemptions. The line on this has probably changed about 15 different times from the White House. Trump has currently said he has settled on Liberation Day on the plan. He says, I've settled it. Liberation Day means that you will find out tomorrow. That's basically what it is. We have got several different things.
- [05:30]
Sagar Enjeti
We'll be liberated from our suspense.
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Crystal Ball
We will be liberated from our suspense. It could mean an across the board ring tariff according to them. It could mean reciprocal tariffs. It could be, according to him, lesser tariffs. It could be every country. It could be 10 to 15 countries. Nobody really knows. That's why the stock market and all of that is currently in haywire. And yesterday stocks were down, then they closed up because of some of those comments there from Donald Trump. But the point is, is that this level of suspense and people being kept on their toes means that no matter what happens, you're gonna see a major react on Wednesday.
- [06:02]
Sagar Enjeti
That was also the press avail in which she announced that they're closing the case. I know, trust me on signal gate saga. So the brightest minds were convened in, you know, Elon's doge team got on it. They figured out the great mystery of how Jeffrey Goldberg's number got into Mike Waltz's phone and they're moving on.
- [06:19]
Crystal Ball
I am not yet allowed to reveal some of the things that I know about Mike Waltz. One day I will be allowed to reveal about some of the things that he has been saying behind the scenes. And you will not believe some of the things and excuses that he has come up with. And it goes way beyond Elon's technical advisors in the White House. Getting to the bottom and case closed on this. It's genuinely some of the stupidest things I've ever heard in my life. Not yet allowed to say it, but I will get to it one day.
- [06:47]
Sagar Enjeti
The teeth. Teeth for the future.
- [06:49]
Crystal Ball
You know, this is the problem with sources. They're like, tell you this stuff off the record and it's so juicy. And you're like, come on, dude, let me say something. You know, and then they're like, nah, you can't do it yet. You gotta wait, et cetera. So we'll get there. I'll hammer them and I'll ask if I can actually reveal it. Ok, let's go to the next part here. This is on the FOX News confronting Caroline Levitt on the polling of this. Let's take a listen.
- [07:10]
Sagar Enjeti
And our new FOX News polling shows that people perhaps are concerned with. With how things are going. This is as of March 14, those that say they disapprove, 56%. More than half those who approve of the president's handling of the economy is at 43%.
- [07:27]
Crystal Ball
And in that same polling, we asked.
- [07:29]
Sagar Enjeti
About the most important issue facing the country today. And top of the list is infl. And the economy is number two. And jobs. Those are first and second as it goes down to political division and preservation of democracy. Is the president doing enough to answer the needs and demands of the American voter when it comes to the economy and lowering prices? The president and his economic team are working on this effort every single day. And the president is not only trying to fix the mess created by the previous administration's incompetence in reckless spending, he is trying to fix decades of unfair trade practices that have ripped our country off, that have sent jobs overseas and that have forced millions of Americans out of their jobs.
- [08:19]
Crystal Ball
So, yeah, look, even Fox and all them, I mean, all the polling on this is now, like, pretty clear. People are not that happy about it. Let's go ahead and put this next up on the screen. This is just where the futures are right now. Literally, kind of as we speak. Yesterday, the S and P closed up by about 0.6. Right now it's down by about 0.6. It's like basically flat. As I said, nobody has any idea about what's going to happen, which means that it's not quote priced in. And it does mean that there's going to be a massive Correct or could be a massive correction depending on what the policy that he announces on Wednesday.
- [08:51]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, well, and as we've said ad nauseam at this point, like even if you wanted to, even if you're like a tariff person and you're in favor of some version of this, you don't even have like a story to tell or anything to defend yet. So tomorrow perhaps all will be revealed. Maybe. Or maybe he'll put something on and take it off again like he did previously. Who knows? And I think it was Joe Weisenthal that made this point on Twitter yesterday, which is an important one, which is some of his explanations for why the tariffs are good are completely contradictory. So for example, he'll talk about how it's oh, it's gonna raise all of this revenue. Tariffs are effectively, especially when they're across the board, effectively a regressive tax. But oh, they're gonna raise all of this re for the US treasury and make our country super wealthy. But he'll also indicate that it's gonna cause all of these jobs to come back and we're gonna re industrialize America. Well, those two things don't really fit together because if you're actually re industrializing then you're not getting the tariffs on the imports. So none of it really adds up. Not that I really wanna even overthink it at this point. So we don't actually know what we're truly talking about here. But with regard to the politics of this, this is an extraordinary situation. For economy is like his weakest. He has a number of issues in which the American people are not too happy with what he's been up to. But this is probably the biggest political liability for him. This is the area where he has turned what used to be a strength into one of his greatest weaknesses. And the other point that I saw made on Twitter yesterday, which I think is a good and important one too, is that even just the uncertainty of are they on, are they off, what are they doing, et cetera, has already caused a freeze in a lot of economic activity. Businesses who are importing a bunch of goods in anticipation, who are freezing hiring, even just the uncertainty has an economic impact and takes an economic toll. As we saw, the estimate of GDP in the first quarter was 0.3% growth, which is extremely low. You even see it in some things like flight bookings from Canada to the US have fallen off like 70%. So there's a hit to the tourism as well from the on again, off again tariffs and the sort of belligerent attitude vis a vis Canada and Mexico as well. So, you know, there's a lot of fallout from this even before the full tariff regime goes into effect.
- [11:16]
Crystal Ball
Well, where are they going to go? Winnipeg. All right, they'll be back. I'm just sorry, Canadians, but there's a.
- [11:21]
Sagar Enjeti
Big world out there.
- [11:22]
Crystal Ball
Where are they going to go?
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Sagar Enjeti
A lot of options.
- [11:24]
Crystal Ball
What?
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Sagar Enjeti
Lot of options.
- [11:25]
Crystal Ball
Fly to Greenland then since it's so close. Oh, actually, no, that's going to be ours soon. I'm joking. Coming back to the tariffs, to the tariff conversation, you're exactly right. And this is the problem with you and I run a business. Somebody says, hey, you may or may not have X amount of money in a month. And they're like, should we do any hiring? No, not doing any hiring.
- [11:44]
Sagar Enjeti
Right, that's right.
- [11:44]
Crystal Ball
This is obvious. This is how any normal person who runs a business is going to be thinking. This is why confidence, planning and all of these other things. Yes. Even in an uncertain environment, it's never a sure thing. But to be able to make decisions, you want to have like pretty good information about how things are gonna go. When you have uncertainty, that causes a pullback, that's gonna cause lack of spending, perhaps firing. And if we do see some major tariffs that go into place, there is no question that that's going to cause a major reaction. What's also interesting is about some of the reaction overseas. Let's go ahead and put this up there on the screen. Lots being made of this. I'm still actually trying to wrap my head around this. So China, Japan and South Korea have announced, according to the Chinese state media, but the Japanese and the South Koreans have not denied it, have said that they have agreed to respond to a U.S. tariff. Agreed to respond to U.S. tariffs. An assertion that Seoul has said is, quote, somewhat exaggerated and that Tokyo has downplayed. However, it's one of those where they're talking out of both sides of their mouth. Now, we shouldn't say this is like some full scale, like joint declaration between the three countries who all hate each other, if you will recall, some of the Asian dynamics. But the issue does get to the purpose not only of trade and tariffs, but fundamentally about what are we trying to do here. And what we're trying to do is reciprocal tariffs, which is if they charge us this and they charge us that, that I think speaks to some basic level of market fairness. The problem As I keep saying, is that we have all these crazy justifications. It's fentanyl. It's not fentanyl. It's cars. It's not cars, it's US Cars. But some US Cars are actually made with a ton of foreign parts. You have not got to sell America and really the world on what is the future going to look like when you have uncertainty, people look in different directions. So is this some full scale, like realignment against the. No. Japan and China are not allying anytime soon to retaliate against the United States. But, you know, sometimes, you know, the whole enemy of my enemy is my friend thing. The Japanese, they're ruthless in their trading partners and their own tariff regime. You can go and look at some of their things that they do. How do you think that, you know, their government has propped up and has made their company some of the most preeminent in the entire world. And it didn't happen by accident. So they know you have some sort of existential threat or even marginal threat, you know, to their overall bottom line here with these tariffs. They're gonna have to look in a different direction. It's gonna change their overall calculus and relationship with the United States. Now, I wanna be clear. This is often used by neoliberals to say that we should never put tariffs on our, quote, allies. And I think that's ridiculous. That's not what I'm saying at all. But I'm saying you have to have care and a plan and actual certainty. This goes for the consumer and for other countries as well. And that's my biggest critique here of the entire policy.
- [14:32]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, and I mean, nations around the world be foolish not to look at the, you know, the way that he's handled already, the relationship with Canada and Mexico in particular and all of these threats. And there are tariffs that were put into place and, you know, threatening economic war against Canada in order to annex them. They would be foolish to not look around and go like, okay, well, on our own, we don't have any prayer against the United States of America, which is a giant economy and really important to any number of nations around the world. On our own, we don't have a prayer. We need to figure out some sort of way to coordinate, to have a chance of effectively pushing back against whatever it is that Trump has in store for us. So it shouldn't be surprising when you see conversations like this and the leaders of these three nations just had a meeting and so we don't know exactly what was said there, but the indication is there's at least somewhat of an opening to coordinating on some level. So that is extraordinarily noteworthy here in terms of what the world is gonna look like going forward.
- [15:35]
Crystal Ball
Yeah, I mean, I'm curious too, to see how it shakes out in the future because the South Koreans and the Japanese also talked a really big game the first time around whenever there were tariffs that were put into place. Trump tried to put major tariffs on South Korea during the first term. Actually, yours truly wrote an article against that because I was like, it's a bad idea. We're in this whole thing with this whole North Korea situation right now. Why would we exactly want to be having tension here with South Korea? Also, the thing is about South Korea and Japan. Yes, people know I hate Europe, but here's the thing. The Japanese, the South Koreans, they're good allies. They're tremendously economically important and viable to the United States, not the Japanese. Cause they're literally constitutionally prohibited, are not allowed to spend on their defense. Look at the South Korean defense budget. I mean, look also at their like they're not ideologically against us economically. They're good partners. They're dramatically important to the overall US Economy. And then broadly in the region, that is the most important region that's actually increasing its overall economic activity, its population and its importance to America. And it gets probably 1:15 the amount of care that it deserves here in Washington. Probably not the people I would antagonize. At the same time, they certainly do have an imbalance in our trading relationship with the two here. We're going to turn now to Donald Trump asked here about what these small scale tariffs and whether those were going to be into place. He's downplaying that, giving us again some peek into what it might be. Let's take a listen on the tariffs that you're planning.
- [17:01]
Sagar Enjeti
So there are. You're expecting to hit something like 10 to 15 countries, is that right?
- [17:06]
Crystal Ball
No, no, all countries. All of the countries across the board. I don't know who told you 10 or 15 countries.
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Sagar Enjeti
So we heard that you were going.
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Crystal Ball
To aim for the 10, 15%, but you didn't hear from me.
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Sagar Enjeti
Okay, so how many countries will be.
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Crystal Ball
In that initial trunch?
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Sagar Enjeti
You'd start with all countries.
- [17:22]
Crystal Ball
So let's see what happens.
- [17:24]
Sagar Enjeti
There are many countries I haven't heard a rumor about. 15 countries. 10 or 15. So you're starting with all countries. Essentially all of the countries that we're talking about wouldn't be talking about all countries.
- [17:37]
Crystal Ball
It's not a cut off and if.
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Sagar Enjeti
You look at the history and you.
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Crystal Ball
Look at what's happened to us, you go to certain places, go to Asia.
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Sagar Enjeti
And you take a look at every single country in Asia, what they've done to the United States in trade and by the way, in military, in a certain way, you look at, you take.
- [17:57]
Crystal Ball
A look at trade with Asia and.
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Sagar Enjeti
I wouldn't say anybody is treated as fairly or nicely, but we are going.
- [18:07]
Crystal Ball
To treat them, we're going to be.
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Sagar Enjeti
Much more generous to them in terms of heart. We're going to be much more generous than they were to us.
- [18:16]
Crystal Ball
So, yeah, you can take that for what you will. Let's go and put this up there on the screen from Jeff Stein. He says Donald Trump is described by several sources as pushing big with tariffs. He's described as a simple universal rate as high as 20%. Described as wary of advisors trying to talk him down and weaken his trade agenda, which he believes limited the tariff impact of his first term. Thinks tariffs are a win win for federal revenue. And bringing back manufacturing is thinking of transforming the US Economy in terms of decades or centuries, some sources said, rather than the next few months. It's one of those where I've said you can make this case, I think you could make a probably good case. Many people would stick with you, although in our consumer society it might be a little bit difficult. But the problem I just keep coming back to is just about the communication and the chaotic nature of the way that much of this is being put into place will significantly pose a major risk, not only to your political chances, but let's be honest here, you know, even if you do announce some sort of major tariff, what confidence would any of us have that that's actually going to remain into place? And that gets to that uncertainty with the business. If I was a business, I would just sit there and wait it out. I'd be like, okay, shut it down. Let's see what actually happens. Of course that will have, you know, big ramifications, but it's probably better than paying some crazy tariff or something, especially if you know that it's going to go away in a few weeks. Or at least if you have relative confidence.
- [19:37]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, or even wait it out, like, okay, this guy's going to be in office for a few years and then we're very to get a different president probably, you know, and then, you know, the regime will completely change again. So, yeah, we can just wait it out, like put our heads down and muddle through the next few years and then see what comes out on the other side. So I think that's all very possible. Also, we can put Joe Wiesenthal's piece up on the screen here. This a six and a seven. He has eight different thoughts about, you know, what these tariffs really mean. And one of the things he's pointing to here, Liberation Day isn't a binary event. That's kind of what I was referring to where already all of the they're on, they're off. Here's what we're doing. No, we're not doing that. No, we're going big. No, it's going to be just a few countries. All of this has already created problems. Let's go to the next piece as well. He also talks about the fact that he talks that he's making a case here that when economies become rich, then they're capable of building the most complex things. And so if you're trying to go back to re industrialized sort of simpler products, then that might not be the direction you want to go in. I don't fully agree with that because I do think so. For me, I think there's a targeted tariff approach that is logical and is beneficial. We all saw during COVID how detrimental it was to our safety, health and security that so much of the supply chain was overseas, so that there were basic medical supplies we couldn't produce here. Also, in terms of supply chain fragility, it was a disaster. So there is a tariff scheme that I would support, but the whole across the board situation to me is insane. And then the last point that he also makes is that that even if your goal is reindustrializing, like these things are very interconnected and it's very difficult to game out what impact it's going to have. So, for example, oil companies have reduced output because they're concerned about the price of some of the like, electrical components that they need in terms of their process. So, you know, when you're doing this across the board thing and it's not matched with any sort of concerted industrial policy, in fact, the government's going the opposite direction of rolling back some of the previous industrial policy that was put into place, it's also not even clear that you're going to get any of the results that you are gaining for here, whatever those are. Not that that's really been spelled out by Trump in particular. But if we zoom out here, I think that the big picture is, yes, there is another potential economic paradigm that Americans could be open to that wasn't based around them being consumers of a Lot of cheap goods from overseas. But if you are going to just take away the cheap goods and hike prices and not offer any other alternative like benefits, then no, it's going to be dramatically unpopular. And you're also flirting with a stagflation situation in which growth is lower. Zero. You still have high inflation. That really makes it difficult for the Fed to do anything because if they hike interest rates, then you're lowering growth even more. If they lower interest rates, then you are increasing inflation. So that's why that situation is so incredibly difficult to deal with and so dangerous and is really a looming possibility right now.
- [22:57]
Crystal Ball
Yeah. To return just last thing, because I really like this argument that he makes. What he's talking about in terms of riches is monetary riches. And that is what we need to redefine. So Joe has a great statistic that I learned, quote, one of the most important facts about the world is that in the last 15 years, China has become the global manufacturing powerhouse at the cutting edge of multiple industries. But the Shanghai Composite Stock Index is scarce above where it was in 2009. So, I mean, you know what US stocks are up from 2009. I literally don't know. Off the top of my head, it's probably hundreds and hundreds of percent. Are we richer? Richer materially than we were in 2009? I would say no, absolutely not. In China, I would say yeah, they're a lot richer in terms of they got drone deliveries, they've got the BYD Xiaomi cars. Their society and their overall net growth and quality of life has dramatically increased. I mean, look, I'm just gonna sit here and admit it. Go to Shenzhen today, go look at any video, go talk to any person or look at anything in Shenzhen, in Chongqing, in any of these, like major cities even that you wouldn't even necessarily know, like the mid tier cities of China. And tell me that they're not living better than we are now. Yes, they're living in apartments. Certainly they don't have any crime. It's pretty safe. Train goes on time. There's, you know, I could go on forever. These are different models of economic activity. But I think that's the point that he's trying to make about riches. We are richer in the sense that, yes, a flat screen television is much cheaper. Fantastic. We are richer in the sense that. I mean, be honest, this iPhone in my hand, is it all that materially different than the iPhone4 that I bought in 2010? No, it's just not. Like, be honest here. The camera quality is better and also it's still manufactured in China, last time that I checked. That's, I think the point that he's trying to make about manufacturing and riches as in the definition of riches financially is basically the one that the United States has decided to go all in on. He even says that he's like the greatest export of the United States is US stocks and Treasuries. Okay, great. I mean, you know, definitely better off for it, right? We talk a lot about this in the chips context. The chips are all designed here. You know, what does that thing say whenever you open your Apple box? Designed in Cupertino, California. Why does it say designed? Because it's designed here, it's manufactured somewhere else. Tell me, who has the power? Who's actually materially richer? Well, I think it's them.
- [25:18]
Sagar Enjeti
Not only that, but those high end design and pushing the tech frontier. It's not like we're maintaining our edge there. We're at best at competitive level with China and I think increasingly they're surpassing us in terms of the leading edge of transformative future oriented tech. Tech is increasingly coming out of China. So the bet that we made that we could keep this high, the sort of high end, like oh, design in Cupertino and keep the low end manufacturing there, well, it turns out if you are the one manufacturing the products and also if you have a government that's been very committed to investing in research, investing in technology, trying to push their country in that direction, then you have a huge advantage in terms of innovating for the future. Meanwhile, our companies have grown into these giant monopolies, in many ways complacent, in many ways much more focused on how to game the stock market and give themselves stock buybacks and do financial engineering than they have been on genuine innovation. I don't want to erase the genuine innovation that has been going on. We obviously have these LLMs that are leading edge coming out of American companies from American investment, et cetera. But if you look across the board, certainly in the EV realm, China's kicking the ass of every American car company. It's not really even close. There was a post that was going viral on Twitter. Sager tells me it's a little bit of a gimmick, but gives you a sense of the future oriented direction that China is heading in. They just issued a commercial license for these like drone quadcopter taxis where you can, you know, as like a consumer hop in this. It's like some Jetsons kind of shit that they're contemplating here. And meanwhile we're you know, like pumping the next hawk to a coin or whatever.
- [27:18]
Crystal Ball
So. And I have the stats. So since 2009, the S&P 500 is up. Let's see, a total return on investment of 841%. The Shanghai index is up 2.28%. But you know, be serious. Yes, there are a lot of people out here. If you were lucky enough and you've had your 401k and all that, I think that's fantastic. But you should take a look at what the alternative economic model of that is and what it means to be actually rich and what that, you know, the definition of that to me is not just where the S&P 500 is.
- [27:53]
Unknown Host
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- [28:50]
Carl, CEO of Bodi
15% off off nyx.com they say healthy habits are hard. But you know what's harder? Actually getting sick because I'm not taking care of myself. I'm Carl, the CEO of Bodi. That's Bodi with an I. Losing weight and getting healthy is actually easier than you think if you do two things. Follow a fitness plan that tells you what to do day by day and feed your body right. What you need is what we call the total solution. And this is the best offer we've ever made.
- [29:18]
Crystal Ball
Made.
- [29:18]
Carl, CEO of Bodi
It's a full year subscription to all our body programs from 21 day fix to P90X, plus our healthy eating plans and a box of Shakeology, a shake packed with protein and superfood nutrition proven to help you feel great and curb cravings. Together, that's over $500 of value for just $129.95 plus free shipping. Your total solution. And if you don't lose at least 10 to 15 pounds in your first month.
- [29:45]
Crystal Ball
Month.
- [29:46]
Carl, CEO of Bodi
I'll give you your money back. Isn't it time to love your body? Go to bodi.com that's body with an I dot com.
- [29:53]
Unknown Host
Does this podcast make you happy? Of course it does. That's why you're here. But it only comes out once a week for happiness, every night. You need Adam and Eve.
- [30:03]
Crystal Ball
Yes.
- [30:03]
Unknown Host
I'm talking about sex toys. It's cool. It's cool. You have earbuds in right? Adam and Eve, America's most trusted source for adult products has been making people very happy for over 50 years with thousands of toys for both men and women. Just go to AdamAndEve.com now and enter code IHEART for 50% off. Almost any one item plus free discreet shipping. That's AdamAndEve.com, code IHEART for 50% OFF.
- [30:31]
Sagar Enjeti
So Trump has gone on a pardoning spree of all sorts of white collar criminals. We've got here the Nikola founder. That was that supposed like hydrogen powered truck company. Trevor Milton receives a full pardon. This was a crazy one. OZ Media co founder Carlos Watson pardoned for his or commuted the sentence of his financial conspiracy case. Let's go on to the next one. We had some crypto types who also are being let off the hook. Hawk to a girl, you know she's not gonna face any charges after her pump and dump. This guy Jason Galanis, he had his sentence commuted. This is the second New York Post says ex Hunter Biden business partner. Partner to receive clemency. I dug into this dude Sagar, what a loathsome, disgusting piece of shit this guy is.
- [31:23]
Crystal Ball
What did he do?
- [31:24]
Sagar Enjeti
He scammed a Native American tribe out of $60 million, convinced them to issue these $60 million in bonds. According to him, used his proximity to the vice president or the president. Hunter Biden is my associate, et cetera, to build up his own credibility and then just took the proceeds of this bond sale which he claimed was gonna be invested in some sort of annuity so that this tribe could invest in themselves and do economic development for their tribal nation. Instead he took it and bought like a $10 million Tribeca apartment, spent $8.5 million on Gucci clothes and jewelry and this luxurious lifestyle and also paying back his previous legal expenses and his new business ventures and whatever. Like just a, a totally disgusting person. However, he from prison testified in Republicans like Biden inquiry, impeachment thing and so now he's getting let off the hook. The Nicola guy, I don't know if you guys remember this story. I'm sure you do. I very well remember they put out this propaganda that supposedly showed their trucks, which are like giant mag truck, tractor trailer things, supposedly showed this driving along. Well, it turns out they just had it rolling down a hill like it was all fake. Lied to investors, total fraudster. So he's being let off the hook. In some ways, the Hoktua girl is the most sympathetic one because you could argue she's just like Dahman didn't know what she was really getting into. I would not say that compared to the guy who stole the $60 million from the tribe, she is the more sympathetic case here. And then we have put B3 up on the screen. There were some other crypto fraudsters. They were basically like running a sort of money laundering operation knowingly in blatant defiance of US regulations and laws. So these people have also been these three BitMEX crypto exchange co founders also let off the hook. It's just absolutely extraordinary. Coffeezilla has been taking a look at some of these cases. This was a video that he posted on his Voidzilla channel that was titled, titled Crime is Legal Part 2. Let's take a listen to a little bit of that.
- [33:38]
Crystal Ball
This season of American Crime is Legal is getting even crazier. The hawk to a girl, she had her investigation closed, obviously, because she basically did more or less what the President did. Yes, it was a little bit worse, but kind of would look bad if you took out somebody for a meme coin while the President did it. But that's sort of your run of the mill stuff you see a lot. I wouldn't even be commenting on it, except that we've now moved from not. Not just not going after people who've done something wrong, but sort of releasing the prisoners from Arkham. I am talking about. Trevor Milton is one of the OG fraudsters of the 21st century. This guy faked a hydrogen truck company which was called out by Hindenburg Research Church, where he rolled a truck down a hill and told everyone that it worked okay. He got arrested, sentenced to four years in prison. But now he won't be finishing that because he got an unconditional pardon from President Trump. So where do we go from here? I think SBF is up next.
- [34:51]
Sagar Enjeti
And that dude, the Nicola Trump guy, had apparently given like $1.9 million to the Trump campaign or to the Trump inauguration or something of that. N. I mean, it's just very clear, like any Trump associate, they can get away with whatever. It doesn't matter who they scammed it doesn't matter how egregious. They can get away with it. And then meanwhile, they're charging people who hurt a Tesla with terrorism and trying to throw them in prison for 20 years. So it's the complete and total end of even the aspirations that the criminal justice system is going to be, you know, sort of like politically neutral whatsoever.
- [35:32]
Crystal Ball
Well, even on white collar crime, like, let's be honest, it's not exactly like they're working overtime in that department. So yeah, I mean the bar for getting yourself prosecuted for federal, like on a federal level for white collar, it's actually very high.
- [35:45]
Sagar Enjeti
Absolutely.
- [35:45]
Unknown Host
People think it's.
- [35:46]
Sagar Enjeti
People get away with so much money.
- [35:47]
Crystal Ball
People think that it's fair. It's not. You actually have to go. If you look at the federal sentencing guidelines and stuff, you need to steal or be responsible for millions of dollars before. I mean, think about it. It probably cost the feds like a million bucks to even investigate somebody and take you to trial. So it's gotta be pretty high. Whatever your alleged response, you know, fraud or responsibility is here. So there's just no earthly reason why any of these people should be part. The Nicola one is absolutely the most egregious one to me. I actually do think though that the OZ founder, the Carlos Watson one, is even more egregious because since we covered this story from the very beginning and then looking into one of his business associates, it seems almost 100% clear that his associates lobbied Alice Johnson and other like black MAGA influencers lobbied. You take that term for what you will. I don't have any other more information on it, but somebody somewhere got to some of these black MAGA influencers and that's how he got himself off. I mean, he's stone cold guilty. You can go and listen to the tapes. We played it here on our show about the fakery of that website. It was egregious.
- [36:56]
Sagar Enjeti
He was found guilty.
- [36:57]
Crystal Ball
Yeah. No, he's not alleged literally guilty. Like did he plead or was he convicted? I forget. Regardless, I mean he's admitted guilt here, at least at some level. And why are we communing? It's like, no, he defrauded investors and basically propped up this fake media empire. And beyond that, like deceived major corporations like YouTube and they made a mockery of the entire thing. Same with these BitMEX people. I mean, it's like, look, I'll be the first here to tell you that the feds can overreach, that they can prosecute people for political purposes or they can manipulate things and all that. I looked into, and I definitely know the Nikola case very well. Yeah. There's no out of it. There is no allegation. And that's actually why a lot of these are being announced. Not from a White House podium. They're just happening from the desk, and they're only being reported after the fact of the commutation. The Ross Ulbricht thing was very different. Right. There's a whole PR strategy that rolled out, but this Carlos, we have to learn that from his associates and from others that this guy is getting out of prison. You're like, what? Hold on a second.
- [38:07]
Sagar Enjeti
Well, Trump got asked about the Nikola Trump guy, and he framed it in political terms. He said basically, like, this guy's crime was supporting Donald J. Trump. Trump. First of all, he wasn't even until he was in trouble, he was not a known, at least Trump supporter. But then once he saw that, oh, my Hail Mary chance to get out of these charges and get out of prison is to send some money to Trump. And so Trump himself frames it in totally nakedly political terms terms to remind people about the Carlos Watson one. We did cover this extensively. Part of what's hilarious is if you go and look at this, like, Oz Media fake channel that he had propped up like it was some giant media behemoth. And everyone was like, who?
- [38:59]
Crystal Ball
What?
- [39:00]
Sagar Enjeti
We've never heard of this.
- [39:01]
Crystal Ball
That happens.
- [39:01]
Sagar Enjeti
To me, it was the most cringe identity lib type of comment.
- [39:06]
Crystal Ball
And remember, Hillary spoke at their conference at Oz Fest. I actually met a guy once, and he was like, oh, I work at Oz Media. And I was like, what? And he was like, yeah, you know, we're doing actually really well. And I went, I go, I have never heard of this thing once. And then I banked it. You know, in my mind, years later, this all happens.
- [39:23]
Sagar Enjeti
They had all these. Remember, we went and looked at their channel and the views would be like, you know, fairly significant. Yeah. And then on some videos, some videos had, like, no views. And then occasionally you'd have a video that had, like, a very high view count. But then you'd go and look, look, there were almost no likes. There were almost no comments. It was completely and totally fake.
- [39:43]
Crystal Ball
Yeah. He bought them from India or some Bangladeshi clickfunnel.
- [39:46]
Sagar Enjeti
Is that what it was?
- [39:46]
Crystal Ball
I think that's what it was.
- [39:47]
Sagar Enjeti
And then what was the most preposterous is he pretended to be a YouTube rep. Yeah, that's right. On a call with. I don't know, I think it was like, Goldman Sachs or something like that. Yeah.
- [39:59]
Crystal Ball
His associates pretended to be a representative from YouTube with the camera off during a meeting while they were pitching basically to raise.
- [40:09]
Sagar Enjeti
He's using some I think like voice modifier to try to. And the Goldman Sachs people were like, oh, this is really weird. I mean he just got caught red handed. These were not cases that were really close calls.
- [40:20]
Crystal Ball
No.
- [40:21]
Sagar Enjeti
Right again. Hawk to a girl. Pump and dump. Apparently pump and dumps are just legal now. The President did one with Melania Coyne, Javier Millet, whatever. Like apparently that's just like a thing you can do now, now, but not letting her off the hook. But these other ones are just not even remotely closed cases. And it's just so clear that no matter how much of a lib or a Hunter Biden associate or whoever that you've been in the past, if you can get in Donald Trump's good graces, then you can get away with absolutely anything. It is truly astonishing and to your point, Sager put before up on the screen. So, so this is really kind of a whole of government effort to let a lot of white collar crime and a lot of corporate crime go unpunished. You've had the, obviously the attack on the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, which is like the anti scam agency SEC no longer regulating the crypto market. National Labor Relations Board is once again without a quorum. So if you're a worker trying to fight for worker rights, you have nowhere to go. And a public citizen has been tracking this corporate clemency and apparently a quarter, a quarter, 25% of all corporate enforcement has been dropped at this point.
- [41:36]
Crystal Ball
Wow.
- [41:37]
Sagar Enjeti
So it really is a whole of government effort to let more white collar criminals get away with scamming the public and truly doing whatever it is that they really wanna do.
- [41:49]
Crystal Ball
Yeah, I mean I think it's egregious and it is just something that's been back to the first Trump administration. He pardoned people like. Or not pardoned, commuted people like Michael Milken. The most funny stories, not all that.
- [42:00]
Sagar Enjeti
Jesus.
- [42:00]
Crystal Ball
Yeah, and also just so you guys know, if you go to the White House now, you know what's right across the street? The Milken Institute, which is just a little bit too perfect for me. So anyway, Den of Thieves. Great book recommendation if you've never read it. The movie Wall street was based on some of the characters that were in there. Iboski and Michael. Michael Milken is one of the most notorious white collar criminals literally of all time. Like he was a cut and dry open insider trader. They had him on tape. There was no getting around it. And he basically used his gain since then to launder his reputation in the public health space and others since then. And eventually Rudy Giuliani, who's one of the people who prosecuted Milken, is then the one who gets Trump to get him his. I think it's his pardon or his commutation some years later. It was completely insane.
- [42:46]
Sagar Enjeti
Well, think about, I mean, the air Cap Adams situation.
- [42:49]
Crystal Ball
Well, he hasn't gotten his yet. Right.
- [42:52]
Sagar Enjeti
They dropped the charges against him, pressure from DOJ and forced them to drop the charges. And remember, you had various people who are involved at that federal district court who were like, I'm out. Like, this is blatantly immoral, unethical. And these were people who were like. One of them was like, I can't remember which of the conservative justices that she had clerked for. And she was like, I'm out.
- [43:15]
Crystal Ball
That's right.
- [43:16]
Sagar Enjeti
This is nakedly political.
- [43:17]
Crystal Ball
Yes.
- [43:18]
Sagar Enjeti
And yeah, it was the same. He was able to position himself like the deep state is down to get me because I want to help Trump on immigration, whatever. I mean, it's just so obvious. It's just so obvious, and it makes a mockery of. Our justice system is flawed in a million different ways, there's no doubt about it. But again, the aspiration is that it should be neutral. Right. The aspiration is that you should at least have the expectation that it's not just like, if I can suck up to this person, then I can get away with it. And that gone out the window.
- [43:53]
Crystal Ball
Well, I mean, I have spoken against this. There is really no reason, other than the holdover from the monarchical period when this was invented, that the president should have such unilateral pardon and clemency powers. It's literally not. It is borrowed at that time from the powers that the Tsar and that the kings had.
- [44:12]
Sagar Enjeti
Wow.
- [44:13]
Crystal Ball
Based on the European system. So just so everyone's aware of where it all comes from. Cool model we got. It makes absolutely no sense.
- [44:20]
Unknown Host
Let's be honest. Most of us have a love hate relationship with wired bras. We love the lift, but hate the digging. We love the support, but hate feeling trapped. Well, Nick's just changed everything with Free Flex, a wired bra actually designed to work with your body, not against it. Freeflex features a revolutionary flexible wire that moves when you move, bends when you bend, and keeps everything exactly where you want it. No poking, no stabbing, no constant readjusting, just freedom to move. It also has a demi cup shape for a natural Lift with a lower neckline that flatters in everything from V necks to dresses. And because it's from Nyx, it's available in sizes for every body. Experience the first wired bra you'll actually want to wear all day. Visit nyx.com for 15% off your order with Free Flex 15. That's kn ix.com code freeflex15 for 15%.
- [45:18]
Carl, CEO of Bodi
Off nyx.com they say healthy habits are hard. But you know what's harder? Actually getting sick, because I'm not taking care of myself. I'm Carl, the CEO of Bodi. That's Bodi with an I. Losing weight and getting healthy is actually easier than you think if you do two things. Follow a fitness plan that tells you what to do day by day and feed your body right. What you need is what we call the total solution. And this is the best offer we've ever made. It's a full year subscription to all our body programs from 21 day fix to P90X, plus our healthy eating plans and a box of Shakeology, a shake packed with protein and superfood nutrition proven to help you feel great and curb cravings. Together, that's over $500 of value for just $129.95 plus free shipping. Your total solution. And if you don't lose at least 10 to 15 pounds in your first month, I'll give you your money back. Isn't it time to love your body? Go to bodi.com that's bodywithani.com.
- [46:19]
Unknown Host
Does this podcast make you happy? Of course it does. That's why you're here. But it only comes out once a week for happiness, every night. You need Adam and Eve.
- [46:29]
Crystal Ball
Yes.
- [46:30]
Unknown Host
I'm talking about sex toys. It's cool. It's cool. You have earbuds in, right? Adam and Eve, America's most trusted source for adult products, has been making people very happy for over 50 years with thousands of toys for both men and women. Just go to AdamAndEve.com now and enter code IHEART for 50% off. Almost any one item, plus free discrete shop shipping. That's adamandeve.com, code iheart for 50% off.
- [46:58]
Sagar Enjeti
So we are now getting confirmation from Bibi Netanyahu that the official plan for the Gaza Strip, you know, we've been talking about, oh, what's the plan for the day after? From the beginning, some of us have been saying, you know, the plan is probably full ethnic cleansing and removal of Palestinians from the Gaza Strip and complete reoccupation BB Netanyahu now confirming that that is in fact the case. Case, he says, if your Hebrew is a little rusty or Arabic is a little rusty, as mine is here, he says, we are ready to discuss the final phase of the war. Hamas will lay down its arms. Its leaders will be allowed to leave. We will take care of security in Gaza and implement Trump's voluntary migration plan. This is our plan. We're not hiding it, and we're ready to talk about it at any time. This, of course, comes amid a renewed bombing campaign and ground invasion and complete siege of the Gaza Strip. Gaza Strip has already been reduced effectively to rubble, according to Trump's envoy there, Steve Witkoff, who went and visited Gaza and said, there's basically nothing left. We continue to get horror stories of the atrocities that are being committed there. We also have this. We could put this next piece up on the screen. More details about the systematic use of Palestinians as human shields. Every accusation is a confession. This is published in Haaretz. This is an Israeli newspaper. Says in Gaza, almost every IDF platoon keeps a human shield, a sub army of Palestinian slaves. Let me go ahead and read this to you. This person writes, I served in Gaza for nine months. First came across these procedures called mosquito protocol in December 2023. It was only two months into the ground offensive, long before there was a shortage of dogs from the IDF's canine unit who were used for this purpose. This became the insane unofficial excuse for this insane unofficial procedure. I didn't realize then how ubiquitous using human shields, who we refer to as shawish, would become today. Almost every platoon keeps a shawish. No infantry force enters a house before a shawish. Clear? This means there are four shawashes in a company, 12 in a battalion, and at least 36 in a brigade. We operate a sub army of slaves. So this coming directly from someone who served in the Gaza Strip in the IDF for nine months. Sagra. We'd received reports of this before, but this speaks to the widespread systematic use of Palestinians for this purpose. But wanted to get your reaction to what Bibi is announcing there, saying, like, oh, Trump, Trump's plan to take over Gaza. Yeah, that's our plan. We're not hiding it. That's what we're going for. And we know that they had actually spoken to some African nations about like, hey, will you take these people? And if you think that this is going to be, quote, unquote, voluntary migration, I mean, this is part of what the current starvation campaign is designed to compel, to force them to have no other choice. If they want to live, but to leave the Gaza.
- [49:58]
Crystal Ball
And that's also the issue with the overall US Policy right now is we explicitly quasi endorsed this from the beginning, and so now we own it. And in that way we are now responsible both and obviously not only in terms of providing weapons, but most importantly in terms of how this is going to reshape things in the region in the future. Because if you think about our relationship with Jordan, with Saudi Arabia, I mean, if we have some grand goal, Middle east, what it is for me, it's get the hell out. But you know, I guess if we're going to stay is to what is to secure peace in this region, which is very important petrochemicals to the United States. Well, how exactly are we supposed to be doing any of this whenever we are explicitly backing and then responsible and endorsing this mass expulsion? That's why no U.S. government ever, even some of the most pro Israel president presidents of all time, have always moved against the Israelis and trying to move them away from what their obvious goal in this case was. It's only Trump who's just taking the mask off. I mean, even Biden tacitly somewhat endorsed it. Right. But rhetorically would not go all the way there. Trump was just thinking he's smart, being like, oh, we're gonna own the Gaza Strip, and then also backing effectively the mass expulsion. And. And so when you have that endorsement, they will take that and run with it as far as they can possibly go. And yeah, the ramifications for us is disastrous. That human shields thing too, like you said. This is also part of what drives me crazy is there is a thing in the west where we're not really allowed to even say these things until the Israeli press admits them. And then, even then, you know, we.
- [51:39]
Sagar Enjeti
You wouldn't see that on the New York Times.
- [51:41]
Crystal Ball
See it. That is what drives me. You know, this recently happened. We haven't had time to put in this New York Times report. I'm not sure if you saw it. It's multiple pages long and it's about the role of the Pentagon and the CIA in running the war in Ukraine. And I mean, I've been screaming here for three years about all this stuff, but it's like you're not allowed to admit it until it becomes verified by the New York Times. I feel that way in this case as well. And yeah, in the Western press and in all of our discussion here of the conflict, we just, look, we don't even pay any attention. And they're writing it in English for all of us to see. It's not difficult. And this doesn't even mean you have to be some keffiyeh wearing pal. You just have to be like, yeah, I don't know, you know, why are we paying for this? What exactly are we getting out of this? You can even be callous if you want to look at it that way. And yet, you know, the media environment here is just so propagandized and shaped that yeah, even the quasi liberal institutions are not able. You know, we're about to talk about this medics thing. I just saw this from Ryan. Ryan flagged that in the New York Times. They're like, we can't independently verify these claims. And Ryan's like, you guys want a Pulitzer Prize and you don't know how to get someone in Gaza on the phone.
- [52:52]
Sagar Enjeti
You don't know how to.
- [52:53]
Crystal Ball
What are you doing?
- [52:53]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, he says, cuz this is about Red Crescent.
- [52:56]
Crystal Ball
Yes.
- [52:57]
Sagar Enjeti
Which is their equivalent of the Red Cross, Red Crescent medics. He's like, you can't get the Red Crescent on the phone to verify the.
- [53:04]
Crystal Ball
I've never even met them. I guarantee you I could do it.
- [53:06]
Sagar Enjeti
You know, to your point, Shael Ben Ephraim, who we have had on the show, who was like a self described liberal Zionist, he was saying on Twitter, left out of this conversation about the deportations of the protesters and the crackdown on dissent and all of this stuff is the fact that. And he was someone who was critical of the protesters. This is not a keffiyeh wearing guy. Right. He was like, the protesters were right. Israel has behaved in exactly as monstrous a way, I'm paraphrasing, these aren't exactly his words in exactly as monstrous a way as they were depicted. And they were. And that's the thing is like from the very beginning of this onslaught post October 7th, the people who were the most maximalist on lefties, keffiyeh wearing people, were the most accurate about what the goals were and what this would ultimately look like. You could listen to them or you could listen to the settlers, scholars, the like, most fanatic zealots about their goals. And that would have given you a much better understanding of what the goals were and what was likely to unfold than listening either to the propagandists in Israel or certainly the propagandist here in the US either from a political class or from our media class. But to speak to the incident that you're talking about here, there were 15 Palestinian medics, including one UN employee who were executed in Gaza. And you're talking about 15 people who were killed one by one. So intentionally killed one after another and then buried in a mass grave. So at the State Department briefing, whoever this person is, this new, you know, the equivalent of Matthew Miller of this. Of this administration, gets asked about this and whether there's going to be any sort of accountability for this naked atrocity and slaughter, intentionally, of paramedics. Let's take a listen to what she had to say.
- [55:05]
Crystal Ball
The UN's humanitarian affairs office has said that 15 paramedics, civil defense, and a UN worker were killed, in their words, one by one by the idf. They have dug bodies up, they said, in the shallow grave that had been gathered up, and also vehicles in the sand. Have you got any assessment of what might have happened? And given the potential use of American weapons, is there any assessment of whether or not this complied with international law?
- [55:35]
Sagar Enjeti
Well, I can tell you that for too long, Hamas has abused civilian infrastructure, cynically using it to shield themselves. Hamas's actions have caused humanitarians to be caught in the crossfire. The use of civilians or civilian objects to shield or impede military operations is itself a violation of international humanitarian law. And of course we expect all parties on the ground to comply with international humanitarian law.
- [56:04]
Crystal Ball
But there's specifically a question on any. It's a question about accounting and accountability given may have been the use of US weapons. So it's a question about the State Department rather than Hamas. Is there any action?
- [56:17]
Sagar Enjeti
Well, every single thing that is happening in Gaza is happening because of Hamas.
- [56:23]
Crystal Ball
Every single dynamic.
- [56:26]
Sagar Enjeti
Every single thing that is happening in Gaza is happening because of Hamas. I mean, it's just like. I mean, it's, you know, the Biden administration, it's not really any different. It's just more. It's more naked, more brazen. Like Israel literally has zero agency or zero responsibility for any of their actions, which we know has decimated the entire Gaza Strip. Killed. We don't even have a clue. Tens of thousands at the least. Women and children, elderly, paramedics, journalists. Schools are leveled, mosques are leveled. I mean, it's just on and on and on. And the official stance of the State Department is they bear zero responsibility. So they could literally nuke the Gaza Strip. And it's all Hamas's fault. They have no agency for their actions at all.
- [57:15]
Crystal Ball
Nukes, Ukraine, then. All of us have to get involved. You see how this all falls apart and it's all preposterous. Let's go to the next part here. Cause honestly, this is pretty grim. Quote, Only 3% of Jewish Israelis are, quote, morally opposed to the Trump Netanyahu plan to depopulate Gaza. Some 14% consider it a distraction. More than 80% say they support the forced removal from Gaza.
- [57:37]
Sagar Enjeti
There you go.
- [57:37]
Crystal Ball
That's pretty important. This is the other thing that we may underestimate. As much as the Israeli press is actually far more honest about their coverage and airing of dissent, we should also be real about where the majority of the population is. And we should not make the critical mistake that Westerners always make, which is pointing to dissident media inside of the country and seeing, see, this is what they're being exposed to. That would be like an outsider pointing to Jacobin or something and saying, like, see, this is available in America. It's like, yeah, it's available. But like, that's not what people are reading every day.
- [58:16]
Sagar Enjeti
Probably more Americans that read harats.
- [58:17]
Crystal Ball
Yeah, you're right. I've spent a lot of time in Israel. You know what they watch? They watch the same bullshit that we do, which is their stupid cable news.
- [58:22]
Sagar Enjeti
Like their equivalent.
- [58:23]
Crystal Ball
Their equivalent to Fox News. And yeah, their equivalent of Fox News. Very different than Haaretz, which we've played some of the clips here, but you have to translate from Hebrew so it's more difficult for us to understand. But you ever go there, I can guarantee you they love tv. The Israelis actually love the news in the same way that I guess we do, you know, in terms of our addiction to cable television. And I can tell you that the cable TV over there very different than what you're reading in Haaretz or Times of Israel.
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- [61:26]
Sagar Enjeti
Let's go ahead and move on to this next piece, which Sagar, I know you have taken great interest in so well. It's just.
- [61:34]
Crystal Ball
It's just a little too perfect.
- [61:35]
Sagar Enjeti
It's too on the nose.
- [61:35]
Crystal Ball
Yeah.
- [61:36]
Sagar Enjeti
Republicans have of course been very upset and opposed to DEI and critical race theory and Ibram x Kendi. These whole ideological archetype of you can't just be not racist. You have to be anti anti racist.
- [61:55]
Crystal Ball
It is not enough to be just not racist. You have to be anti racist.
- [62:00]
Sagar Enjeti
Yes. There we go. So some of this language, though, when it's about Israel, suddenly is being received with open arms from what Dave Smith has called the woke. Right, let's go ahead and take a listen to this rabbi who was brought by Republicans to testify about the, you know, the scourge of antisemitism across the country. Let's take a listen to this.
- [62:23]
Crystal Ball
Antisemitism is not just an age old prejudice. It is a contemporary crisis manifesting on campuses across the nation. It is not enough for individuals or institutions to merely claim they are not anti Semitic, as my father once taught me. It is not enough for people, especially public figures, to be neutral or not be anti semitic. One must be anti antisemit. We must demand the same of our universities and government institutions. This hearing, in my opinion, is an attempt to be just that, anti antisemitic. We need anti antisemitism. I mean, it's beyond parody. Also, I went and I checked the tape. That witness was introduced specifically by Senator Bill Cassidy, Republican of Louisiana. Took me about two minutes to find tweets of his railing a against critical race theory. So anyway, there you go. And it's a little bit too on the nose, isn't it? Because what this shows us is that the dei, the I now stands for Israel. We have left inclusion off and we've put Israel in. From affirmative action in the state of Florida to the fact that we are literally deporting people who are here legally and have done nothing else other than pen an opinion and tell them to leave because of their opinion on a foreign country. We're open, we're spending. I was thinking about that too. And yes, I understand that it's not just about money, but you do need to think that if the government is discreet resources, why are there five or six agents? Do you know how much it costs, you know, just to even employ all of them and to go and then to arrest this lady and then put her on a plane to Louisiana? Like that's what you do for like actual criminals here. We're doing it for some somebody who wrote an op ed against funding Israel.
- [64:09]
Sagar Enjeti
That's right.
- [64:10]
Crystal Ball
What are we doing here?
- [64:10]
Sagar Enjeti
And to your point, like for people who are on board with the mass deportation plan, I would expect you wouldn't want to prioritize actual criminals. We know there's a limit.
- [64:21]
Crystal Ball
How about people here illegally? How about that?
- [64:22]
Sagar Enjeti
We know there's a limited amount of resources and instead you've got five, six, a whole mob of these plainclothes mass officers waiting for someone to step out to break their fast with their friends because she committed a thought crime. And it's not just, you know, it's hundreds of students at this point who have been flagged for deportation, some of which have gotten the same, like, mass response, flown down to Louisiana or transferred to Texas et Cetera. And as we've said before, it doesn't stop with the students either. It does not. I mean, with the immigrants either, or even with the students. They are talking about pro Palestine protests as being in favor of. Of terrorism. That has implications in terms of criminalizing anyone who participates in those protests. They're using this as a cudgel in order to enforce compliance and conformity at universities. They've threatened 60 different universities with repercussions if they don't do whatever the administration wants them to do. And basically they are using this framework as a cudgel to go against. Against institutions and people that they consider to be their political adversaries. I mean, think pro Palestine just basically stands in for, like, the left, you know, universities who they think fostered anti Semitism or didn't do enough or whatever. Like, these are their ideological adversaries. And so they're using this framework that was sort of laying around. That's what I talked about in my monologue yesterday in order to. This is way beyond any of the worst of the like, cancel culture epidemic on the left because of the way that the state is aggressively enforcing these speech codes to actually punish and deport people.
- [66:11]
Crystal Ball
Yeah. To bring it back to anti racism for anybody who suffered through Ibrahim Kendi's books. What he proposes is actually Department of Anti Racism, which would effectively do stuff like this, but on behalf of critical race theory. So it's worse because they've actually not only replaced the I and DEI for Israel, but then they're actually using the government. Government for those purposes. And, you know, you were talking about some of that action. So I'm not sure if you saw just yesterday, Princeton University or last night, Princeton University and Harvard University have had their funding put on pause over the anti Semitism initiative. Now, look, if we were doing that to actually, like, blow these people up and, you know, make it so that these elite institutions not only are not only like, bilking people for literally hundreds of thousands of dollars, ripping off the American tax taxpayer. I wouldn't be fine with it because I still wouldn't want to use anti Semitism as a pretext. But I'd say whatever. But look at what they actually extracted from Columbia University is what the ability to expel, like, students for protesting on behalf of Palestine and then replace the Middle Eastern studies department. To what benefit is that to me as the American taxpayer or to the student? That's not the point. That's not why people hate higher education. There are many, many reasons. Actually, I was just looking yesterday Harvard admitted less people in its class of 2023 than it did in the class of, like 1982, even though the United States has grown by about 100 million people or so that far. Do you know why they do that? Exclusivity. To be able to charge more. And that's a crime, in my opinion, to really, to artificially restrict your class size to try and bilk as many people as possible and also use your reputation to basically steal money from people who are applying to you, even though the odds and all that have drop. We could talk about that in a much more equitable way. Why are we doing it on behalf of, quote, anti Semitism, which is one of the fakest panics that has struck the United States here now in the last decade. This is probably akin similarly to the, I would say, like you said, the woke cancel culture stuff, MeToo, et cetera, that happened in the mid 2000s, except this one now has the arm of the state behind it, which obviously makes it worse. It's just preposterous. And then same, same thing. Look, yes, it's great to see Matt Walsh be like, this is bad, and a few other right wing influencers, it's like, yeah, that's nice, but where's the members of Congress? Where's the people in power? Why are people not pointing to this? This was a witness who was invited by the Republicans to testify and nobody sees the contradiction. And the fact that this person even gets to be able to in the opening statement, which is obviously submitted for the record and clearly with all of these staffers, that it didn't even enter their mind shows you the level of hypocrisy that we've now reached.
- [68:51]
Sagar Enjeti
Very true. Yeah, very true.
- [68:52]
Crystal Ball
So it's bad. I mean, it's not just bad, it's horrific because they really are. My only hope is, and I think I said this in your monologue, is now our eyes are open. I think the world's eyes are open. The polling data indicates this on behalf of Israel and of US Attitudes towards them. And there are a lot of people who can no longer, longer be silenced for, quote, noticing. And Tim Dillon one of those people. So why don't we take a listen to that? Is this being done for America or for Israel? I mean, this is a fair question. Is the United States government now just taking edicts and orders from Israel? Is this the, is this what people voted for when they elected Trump, is to have a country taking orders from Israel? I don't think so. So, you know, I respect him and you know what I like about that is we can sit here and talk about this stuff all day long, but that being in the bro sphere, that's a good thing. That's a net positive. And that's what. I mean, people are gonna notice. And, yes, a lot of bad is being done, and I'm not downplaying any of that, but I do think that things are gonna shake out very differently than the pro Israel lobby thinks right now.
- [70:02]
Sagar Enjeti
I don't know, Sagar. We'll see. We'll see. But to the point, I mean, what.
- [70:06]
Crystal Ball
The country will survive? No, like, we're gonna continue 10 years, 15 years from now. Now people who grow up in this era are gonna be like me growing up during the war in Iraq. And you're gonna come to me and tell me smoking gun is gonna be a mushroom cloud. I'm literally gonna laugh in your face. Right? That's what's gonna happen.
- [70:20]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, I mean, it's just. It's part of a broader project. Right, and it's part of a broader project, specifically with regard to education and universities in particular. I mean, this is like, you know, Trump's executive order on, quote, unquote, patriot, patriotic education. You know, they want to have leverage over these universities to control the type of education that, you know, the students who. Harvard and Yale and all these institutions are very powerful. Those are the people who end up in power.
- [70:48]
Crystal Ball
That's right.
- [70:49]
Sagar Enjeti
They want to use this cudgel in order to enforce compliance across. You know, this is sort of the tip of the spear. And then it's the same thing with the war on CRT and dei. And I have my own issues with those ideologies, et cetera, et cetera. But there's a concerted effort to teach a sanitized version of history. And this is part of the cudgel that is being used to effectuate that broader outcome, because they do see these universities as an alternative power center. And so this is something in our sort of ideological architecture that has been supported both by liberals like Joe Biden and most of the elected Democratic political leaders and much of the media, New York Times, et cetera. And so it's the easiest way for them to really push that project. But I don't think that it stands alone. It's part of a broader project. It definitely is.
- [71:52]
Crystal Ball
So the difference then, between you and me is, yeah, I have no problem withholding funding from Harvard, from any of these other people, for propping up DEI or teaching for critical race theory, because that concerns our country. I Do have a big problem with.
- [72:04]
Sagar Enjeti
I mean, but the idea of intellectual freedom is like, listen, they have $50 billion. You can disagree with DEI, but, like, if you want to teach.
- [72:12]
Crystal Ball
Oh, yeah, you're welcome to. You have a $50 billion endowment that you can draw down every day. Me as the American taxpayer and others. We can vote to withhold our funding from said institutions. No, and I think that's a pretty fair. Pretty fair rebuttal.
- [72:25]
Sagar Enjeti
I think that's actually fair in that the universities. I mean, Harvard and certainly Yale and these other Ivy League institutions, they have the endowments where we talked about with Columbia, $10 billion, actually need the $400 million. They could fill in that gap. It wouldn't be a problem. These endowments have become so massive, and they're like a business in and of themselves. But not many universities do not fall into that category. Right. And they're actually the ones that are most vulnerable, which is why it's so disheartening to see the Harvards and the Columbias and the Ivy League institutions, which are in a position to actually stand up for intellectual freedom and their own integrity, completely capitulating in the face of this assault.
- [73:12]
Crystal Ball
I don't know. See, the thing is, public education, by default, if it's gonna be funded by the public, then of course we get a say. The idea that you should have intellectual freedom at a public university. University. Is preposterous because public education is for the purpose of, quote, educating the public based on the taxpayer. Right. So we should.
- [73:29]
Sagar Enjeti
Don't we want a public that's educated, like about, you know, the racism of slavery and Jim Crow?
- [73:35]
Crystal Ball
Educated to what end? The purpose of public education is to benefit the American taxpayer by having people who are skilled, who are educated, curious or whatever. I mean, and to become a better citizen. But there's also, like. Or economic benefit to this.
- [73:46]
Sagar Enjeti
So you don't think that public universities. There should be intellectual freedom at public university.
- [73:52]
Crystal Ball
Okay.
- [73:52]
Sagar Enjeti
I mean, if Harvard is also not a public university.
- [73:55]
Crystal Ball
But under that argument, yeah, I agree with you. And that's what I'm trying to say, though, is that at a state level, like, if the state of Massachusetts, if they had a literal white power curriculum, do you think that that would be acceptable? I would say absolutely not. The state of Massachusetts, at the University of Massachusetts, if those taxpayers voted to say that that's not in line with what we want to teach our school. Schools, Be my guest. It's your university. You guys are the ones who fund it.
- [74:14]
Sagar Enjeti
And so you think that teaching about the scourge of slavery and let's say our genocide against Native Americans go on this forever is equivalent to a white power seminar.
- [74:27]
Crystal Ball
Well, I think that if you're going to teach it in such a way like the 1619 Project did, which was also funded and then used at some of these elite universities to say America is irrevocably racist, then what are we all doing here? I mean, there's no point, you know, to this entire thing. So this is the problem is you think one is justifiable and not. I'm making a point about academic freedom, which is genuinely value neutral. So if the taxpayer and the public broadly mostly agrees with me about critical race theory and dei and yes, they should be able to influence and say those universities should not even be allowed to do this with our dollars, you.
- [75:00]
Sagar Enjeti
Know, that's actually not even true though, that the taxpayer in the country agrees with you about dei. But I think we can all recognize that there are some intellectual inquiries that are worthy of debate, you know, to take it out of race, like some intellectual inquiries that are worthy of debate and some which are only add confusion to the debate. So for example, it wouldn't be like, you know, worthy of academic freedom to have some flat earther there trying to make their case, et cetera, but to have people who, you know, see race as a central component, component of our nation's history and, you know, teach courses on that, teach courses on, you know, gender studies has been a big target. I would say that understanding the dynamics of our genders and our differences has perhaps never been more important. There's a lot that we could learn from there. I think that that is completely within the bounds.
- [75:53]
Crystal Ball
Fine, then go to Harvard or to.
- [75:54]
Sagar Enjeti
A private university at a school. And certainly represents the sort of academic freedom that the right, you know, really, really obsessed over during, when, during the Biden administration and previously. So to enforce this sort of conformity and you have to learn, quote, unquote patriotic history that doesn't ever cast America in a negative light. I mean, that's what they're going for here. And they're using antisemitism as a cudgel in order to help bring these universities to heal so that they're only teaching the versions of American history that are approved by this particular government.
- [76:33]
Crystal Ball
If you want to put your kid into some Howard Zinn university, that's your right. You can go to some private university. But if public funded universities by the taxpayer obviously have a right not only in the, say on the curriculum, but in to be paying for and to propping up said departments, which are genuinely 100% funded by them and not some major endowment. I genuinely couldn't disagree more.
- [76:55]
Sagar Enjeti
So I don't really understand then your opposition to what they're doing with anti Semitism because we're doing it on behalf of the war. But no, what they would say is that this is our foreign policy. This is our. This is the argument Marco Rubio and others make. This is our national security. This is our foreign policy. We want our tax dollars to go to further our national interest as American citizens. And part of our interest is in combating anti Semitism and bolstering our ally Israel in the Middle East. So what's your issue with what they're doing?
- [77:24]
Crystal Ball
No, that's my point, is that I completely disagree with that. But I'm saying, I mean, do you really believe in a principle where the taxpayer has no say on the academic input or the academic environment that they're going to fund? That's ridiculous.
- [77:36]
Sagar Enjeti
I believe that we should have academic freedom and intellectual exploration.
- [77:40]
Crystal Ball
Okay, then. And so you would be okay with.
- [77:42]
Unknown Host
The white power classroom, no cover.
- [77:44]
Sagar Enjeti
I already explained that there are certain things that are do not add to the academic or intellectual.
- [77:53]
Crystal Ball
Who's setting the standard? The democracy.
- [77:56]
Sagar Enjeti
Society does.
- [77:56]
Crystal Ball
Yes, that's right. Exactly.
- [77:57]
Sagar Enjeti
Society. We can have elections and we can have inputs. Society thinks it's important. They don't agree with you on dei, by the way. They don't even agree with me on dei. Society is in favor of knowing the facts about our history, even the ugly facts about our history. And I think it's incredibly important that we be able to learn. And you're a history guy.
- [78:17]
Crystal Ball
Yes, that's right.
- [78:18]
Sagar Enjeti
You know more about this stuff than I do, Sagar.
- [78:20]
Crystal Ball
But that's my point.
- [78:20]
Sagar Enjeti
And it was important, your own intellectual development, to know the truth about those past horrors, whether it's Jim Crow or whether it's slavery or whether it was what was done to Native American people on these lands. That's not to say like, oh, you have to live with that shame and guilt. This is what the right always says. But yeah, you want to learn from the past. You want to learn from the mistakes so we don't repeat them again in the future. And that's what's under assault here, here with this onslaught against universities. They want to bring them to heel so that only the quote, unquote, the sanitized, quote, unquote, patriotic version of history that is not honest about the warts and the truth of, you know, things that our country has been involved in.
- [79:07]
Crystal Ball
I'd love to see curriculum for which you're describing that as.
- [79:09]
Sagar Enjeti
Because I think go look at what Prageru's putting out. Go look at the curriculum.
- [79:13]
Crystal Ball
University of Florida. It's not a real university.
- [79:17]
Sagar Enjeti
They used that for curriculums in places like Florida as part of this patriotic education push. This is the broader project.
- [79:25]
Crystal Ball
Okay. And yes.
- [79:25]
Sagar Enjeti
And so if you don't see the way that this anti Semitism thing is being used as a cudgel to enforce a broader bringing to heel of these universities like that is just one plank of the plan here. That is the tip of the spear. But the broader plan is to completely bring these universities to heel and make them comply with whatever sanitized history that.
- [79:49]
Crystal Ball
This particular administration finds that your sanitized history. The other quote, true history is one where we just sit there and we're supposed to be like, oh, and these are all the most horrible things about America. You know, my education in Texas was terrible. And it wasn't because it was woke. It was genuinely just not actual. It had one inch down of which 99% of the US population will ever actually read below. The vast majority of what I've learned has been reading on myself. And what I have learned is what is that there is deep complexity to the issue and that with Jim Crow and with slavery and the south and the debates at the US Constitutional Convention during the Civil War and more were not often all pure and heroic in the way that we like to learn or all that evil is that there was a deep amount of gray area and that time. And that actually the story of how we were able to emerge today to a much more equal society not yet of where we are is remarkable and is one in which we should absolutely study. And I think we should celebrate now. I think critical race theory, what it does is invert that on its head and to say no, actually where we are today is an immense failure and we didn't get there. And this so called true history or whatever is just like leftist claptrap, to be honest. Like it's not one which genuinely grapples with any of the good of the US has done because like I referenced with Howard Zinn and more, it views it as this evil empire, morally corrupted, its founding as the 1619 Project does. And what that instills in people and or the citizen is one this idea that we can never get better. Instead of looking at both.
- [81:18]
Sagar Enjeti
I'm equally familiar.
- [81:20]
Crystal Ball
This is my issue with criticalism.
- [81:21]
Sagar Enjeti
I'm familiar with your opinion.
- [81:23]
Crystal Ball
Yeah.
- [81:24]
Sagar Enjeti
However, the question Is do you think that learning about those things should be effectively banned by the state? That's the goal.
- [81:35]
Crystal Ball
Come on.
- [81:36]
Sagar Enjeti
That is the goal is to enforce conformity on these universities and to push a sanitized narrative so that, you know, I just think that, listen, you can agree or disagree with how central racism, the way that this infected, you know, affected our nation's development. I would say that it's been a pretty important part of many of the most critical battles in terms of, you know, how we've gotten to where we are today and important to learn about and see the legacy of, et cetera. But like I just to. I believe you've previously spoken on behalf of academic freedom and to think that that's out of bounds or that the state should use its power to bully universities out of teaching that sort of, you know, sort of history is, I think, pretty wild.
- [82:25]
Crystal Ball
There's, I wanna be clear here. I'm talking specifically about public education. I think we can all agree curriculum is propaganda in some form, yes or no. Now, in that propaganda, we all democratically get to decide in that public education for what should be and should be not taught in our classrooms. This is ultimately a parental decision. In fact, I think what you're laying out is a ridiculous idea where this taxpayer is supposed to give you unlimited or whatever amount of funds and you're able to just be able to do whatever you want, want and preach that to children and, or create curriculum for students. We cannot live in a society.
- [83:00]
Sagar Enjeti
First of all, we're talking and have.
- [83:01]
Unknown Host
Never lived in society.
- [83:01]
Sagar Enjeti
We're talking specifically about universities.
- [83:03]
Crystal Ball
Okay, sure, number one, but these are publicly funded. Every time I look at my property tax bill, I'm pretty sure I know where a lot of it's going.
- [83:09]
Sagar Enjeti
And we're predominantly talking about, I mean, this just gets to, I think, a fundamental difference about what the university system is even for. Because in my opinion, the university system is not including the public university system is all about academic and intellectual exploration. That's how even, you know, even thinking through things that might be out of bounds, right politically, that are outside of the, certainly the consensus of the public, like that's how you push research and intellectual activity forward. And so yes, I think that's important to support at both the public university level and you know, certainly private universities should be able to do what they want and they're not doing a good job of standing up for themselves in the face of this onslaught. But yes, of course, I think having academic curiosity and risk taking within the university system, I see that as a core value of the university system. I don't see it as a place where we're just supposed to stamp out these conformist ideas and based on what the current regime approves that you're allowed to learn about. Like that is just. That is completely foreign to my notion of what the public, what the university system is supposed to be all about.
- [84:29]
Crystal Ball
You're learning an issue here, which is what did I say that I didn't actually learn all that much in school. I've mostly learned about it myself. So if you're curious, you can. All the information you need is out there and I've got about 1% of what I need and I'll be looking for the rest of the 5% of what I'm able to consume over the course of my life. But last thing here is you made a good point about what is education. The course of public education. Why did we create. It was to create a more skilled populace. And my problem for economic benefit. That's the truth. It's all namby pamby nice to say. Oh, intellectual curiosity, et cetera. The problem that we have today is that way too many people go to college to pursue degrees which are not economically viable and which saddle them up with a lot of debt. The solution to that is not to offer quote free college so that everybody can go get little box checks. It's to make sure that people pursue higher educational vocational training or wherever, or perhaps perhaps a four year college degree for the purpose of being able to pursue the American dream which you individually get to define for yourself. So that's my last thing. It's just like this idea that you're gonna be conformist cause you go to college. I went to a college with a bunch of woke people. In fact, being around them made me a lot more intellectually curious about what I wasn't learning in school. And you could pursue it for yourself. But that's an inversion of this idea that everything you're ever gonna learn about the world is gonna be at a four year college degree. No, we're supposed to lay a foundation for which you yourself can go from there in spring. Some of that is risk taking, et cetera. But, and like I said, the purpose of public education and why we funded itself is not to have people sitting around reading Proust or whatever. It's so that you can go out, you can get a job which is gonna benefit yourself and ultimately benefit the entire country.
- [86:02]
Sagar Enjeti
I think that treating human beings and their education as solely being about becoming effective cause in the American Capitalist machine. Yeah, I disagree with that end goal of that being the only goal. Even in our education, even in the union.
- [86:20]
Crystal Ball
Why do people go to school?
- [86:21]
Sagar Enjeti
And especially our university system.
- [86:24]
Crystal Ball
Yeah, but I'm saying even in a communist system, why do they send people to public university? It wasn't again to be sitting around and reading and debating Marxist Leninism.
- [86:31]
Sagar Enjeti
I think that this is so funny.
- [86:31]
Crystal Ball
It was to send them to a factory.
- [86:32]
Sagar Enjeti
I just think this is so funny to come from you because you're so intellectually curious.
- [86:37]
Crystal Ball
Absolutely.
- [86:38]
Sagar Enjeti
And you're so well read. And not everything that you consume is about like, how can I generate more profit? How can I like make more money? Exactly.
- [86:46]
Crystal Ball
I do it for my own identification.
- [86:47]
Sagar Enjeti
You value and it has made you part of who you are that you have that intellectual curiosity and that you have that intellectual development. And I'm not saying that all of that comes within a like traditional school system. Of course it doesn't. But I think an important part, especially for young adults within that system, when you have a fantastic professor who opens your eyes up to something, who helps you to understand something you didn't understand before, to help you explore the world, to help you learn about history and see the lessons of the past and be able to apply them to the present and understand better the trajectory that you're on. So yeah, of course I think that that's an important part of the university system and that it's not all just about like, I mean, why should anyone go to university at all if you're just like, like training to for your end goal as a human being of your career?
- [87:39]
Crystal Ball
No, a lot of people actually shouldn't go. And I've said that before, I think the amount of people go is way too high. Probably should be 20, 30% less because I think last I checked it was like 45%. But I mean, that's what I'm saying is the flip is I'm not gonna sit here and tell you or even believe in a system where the public education system is supposed to be the be all end all of on it. As I said, I was much more inspired to read and to be individually more curious from what I didn't learn in school school and asking questions about that. So it just comes down to the fact that I believe that the reason public education exists literally at all. And you can go and look for why we decided for this grand experiment in the first place was genuinely not nice to say it, but the truth is so we could all be more beneficial to each other. Part of that is intellectual exercise and more. But a lot of what public education has become has become an economic saddle on the American taxpayer and on the individual who has participated, participating in the system, who is hobbling their life forever. I believe in individual pursuit of whatever it is that you want to do. I like to read for my own edification. I'm very lucky I've been able to pursue a career in something like that. But even if I didn't do this, I would still be doing it whenever I was doing something else. That's what I like to do. But that's my point is it wasn't necessarily something inspired by the great public universe or private university. I guess where I went for something. It basically comes back back to this idea of why is the public participating in this in the future? I just believe, of course, the public has a right and has a responsibility to be honest of being involved in this and not some blank tabula rasa slate where these professors are allowed to take our dollars and then do whatever they want. That has never existed for literally all of human history or conception of public education. It has always been any curricula in which the state is paying for is itself a debate and is propaganda, propaganda in some form. It's about a war of what is supposed to be in that propaganda to shape a better citizenry. And then that's the debate that you and I are having now.
- [89:32]
Sagar Enjeti
I think universities should be about intellectual exploration and I don't think that they will benefit from having a heavy hand of the state coming in to enforce what is acceptable thought. And I think we see that very clearly with the efforts that are being taken here with regard to quote unquote anti Semitism. So we can leave it there.
- [90:05]
Unknown Host
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- [91:11]
Crystal Ball
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