4/14/26: China Challenges Trump Blockade, Lindsey Graham Peace Sabotage, Israel Freaks Over IDF Soldier Viral Pic

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar

Episode: April 14, 2026 – "China Challenges Trump Blockade, Lindsey Graham Peace Sabotage, Israel Freaks Over IDF Soldier Viral Pic"
Date: April 14, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti dive deep into the mounting global crises converging around Trump's controversial naval blockade of Iran, China's open challenge to U.S. power in the region, the crumbling viability of U.S.-led diplomacy, and a viral photo from the West Bank that has shaken Israeli political circles. The show critiques the U.S. administration's strategy, lays out how key global actors are responding, and dissects propaganda and disinformation issues tied to modern warfare and media.

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Table of Contents & Timestamps

1. Trump’s Iranian Naval Blockade Collapse (05:35–15:14)
2. China's Response and Global Coup Attempt (08:57–13:46)
3. Blockade Reality Check: Tanker Traffic and Economic Fallout (09:49–22:03)
4. Washington War Drums: Escalation Advocates (22:03–29:50)
5. Bibi Netanyahu's Influence: The “Reported to Me” Controversy (31:46–36:27)
6. Breakdown of U.S.–Iran Back Channel Talks (36:42–41:28)
7. Nuclear Deal Stalemate and the Enrichment Debate (41:28–46:15)
8. The West Bank Viral Photo and AI-Misinformation (50:10–55:50)

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Trump’s Iranian Naval Blockade Collapse

(05:35–15:14)

• The show highlights the political theater surrounding Trump's "no tax on tips" initiative, but quickly pivots to what they call “the real story”: the U.S. naval blockade of the Strait of Hormuz.
• Trump’s Rationale: Trump states, “We can't let a country blackmail or extort the world because that's what they're doing...We have our own oil and gas...We don't need this Strait.” (06:37)
• Hosts’ Critique: Krystal and Saagar characterize Trump as creating “a vice of his own making,” referencing the ineffectiveness and incoherence of the blockade.
• Multiple key allies—UK, France, S. Korea, and Japan—publicly refuse assistance in Trump’s blockade. The UK’s Keir Starmer makes clear the UK will not participate. "We've been trying to track that down and so far we haven't been able to find a single one [country]." (Saagar, 08:36)
• South Korea is actively negotiating its vessels’ safe passage in Tehran, contradicting claims of unified U.S. ally support.

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China’s Response and Global Coup Attempt

(08:57–13:46)

• China’s Position: China cautions restraint, warning Trump against interfering with its energy ties to Iran.
• Saagar summarizes: “They said, you’re not going to threaten our energy alliance with Iran. It has nothing to do with you.” (09:49)
• China and others are accused by the U.S. of smuggling Iranian oil through “gray fleet” tankers, using maritime spoofing to avoid U.S. detection.
• Saagar points out the double standard: “Imagine if a Chinese vessel tried to board an American ship in the Taiwan Strait...we’re going to war.” (10:39)
• Discussion highlights the potential for escalation into direct U.S.–China confrontation and questions the legality and wisdom of U.S. tactics.

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Blockade Reality Check: Tanker Traffic and Economic Fallout

(09:49–22:03)

• The hosts detail how sanctioned tankers, some linked to China, are challenging the blockade—“testing Trump’s naval blockade” (11:44)—with at least three confirmed transits.
• Open-source tanker trackers sharply contradict Trump’s claims: "Trump said 34 ships went through...actual number...was 4." (Saagar, 17:28)
• Major U.S. naval assets are deployed at great cost. The USS George H.W. Bush is rerouted around Africa, avoiding the Houthi-threatened Red Sea, reflecting U.S. vulnerability to asymmetric warfare and draining resources. “That just, again, undermines his entire claim that the war has been won...” (Krystal, 21:20)
• Economic Impact: National gas averages spike to $4.11 ($5.88 in CA); fertilizer shortages hit U.S. farmers.

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Washington War Drums: Escalation Advocates

(22:03–29:50)

• Krystal and Saagar examine the growing calls in D.C. for escalation.
• Mark Levin quote: Advocates referencing the use of nuclear weapons: “In order to implement the Potsdam Declaration and get them to surrender...we dropped two atomic bombs. Now, I’m not encouraging it...I’m asking you about the law.” (Mark Levin, 24:12)
• Nikki Haley, on CNN, floats the likelihood of boots on the ground: “It’s not casual, but it’s no big deal...a small special operations force...to extract that uranium.” (26:36)
• Saagar reacts: “That’s, quote, probably what it’s going to come down to. I think that’s correct...Trump can only resist...for so long.” (27:07)
• The Vice President admits to “economic terrorism”—“If the Iranians are going to try to engage in economic terrorism, we’re going to…no Iranian ships are getting out either.” (28:34)
• Krystal contextualizes: “We are the good guys here because we don’t do that. We don’t do economic terrorism. We don’t say ‘oh, you do it, too.’” (29:49)

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Bibi Netanyahu's Influence: The “Reported to Me” Controversy

(31:46–36:27)

• Netanyahu’s remarks set off debate: “He reported to me in detail, as the people of this administration do every day, on the development of the negotiations.” (Prime Minister Netanyahu, 31:52)
• The translation is controversial—did VP Vance “report” or “brief” Bibi? The snap translation given to the press was later altered by the Israeli government.
  • Saagar: “Reporting to has obviously a very particular connotation that you are in some way the inferior...It’s the relationship.” (Krystal, 34:47)
• The hosts underline a pattern of Netanyahu boasting about influence over U.S. policy, fueling domestic debate about sovereignty and foreign sway.

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Breakdown of U.S.–Iran Back Channel Talks

(36:42–41:28)

• Despite public breakdown, Financial Times and Axios report that U.S.–Iran negotiations continue through back channels, mediated by third parties.
• The sticking point: The U.S. demands a 20-year freeze on uranium enrichment; Iran offers five (the same as a pre-war offer). “That is such a good example of exactly what's been accomplished over the last six weeks, which is...even worse for the United States.” (Krystal, 40:09)
• Saagar notes the technical incompetence on the U.S. side: past negotiations featured nuclear experts; current talks led by “Jared Kushner and Steve Wyckoff...don't know what they're talking about.” (Saagar, 43:23)

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Nuclear Deal Stalemate and the Enrichment Debate

(41:28–46:15)

• Intense focus on the “zero enrichment” standard: The U.S. and Israel push for no uranium enrichment, while Iran seeks “latent nuclear deterrence” (some enrichment capacity short of weaponization).
• Lindsey Graham quote: “No enrichment for Iran. They want a bomb and they cheat...the only difference between al-Qaeda and the Iranian regime is that one is a Sunni terrorist organization..." (47:42)
• South China Morning Post details that Pakistani Air Force jets escorted the Iranian delegation home from peace talks, fearing Israeli or other attacks—illustrating regional volatility.

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The West Bank Viral Photo and AI-Misinformation

(50:10–55:50)

• An Italian magazine cover of an Israeli soldier facing a Palestinian woman triggers claims of “AI-generated” fake news by the Israeli ambassador to Italy and others.
  • Community notes and sourced videos verify the image is authentic, not AI. “The evidence is to the contrary that this was from a video. So...Just shooting off his mouth.” (Krystal and Saagar, 53:42)
• Saagar: “One of the problems…is that you have all of these people who can claim legitimate images are AI in order to cast doubt." (54:57)
• The hosts warn about the future of media warfare: “All you have to do nowadays is claim something is AI.” (Saagar, 55:45)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Krystal, on U.S. strategy: "All of this almost doesn't really matter, because a few ships here or there basically means nothing to the global markets...and now you have China and others testing the blockade. So, I mean, this is a very dangerous situation." (12:37)
• Saagar, on carrier rerouting: "You can just think about the multimillion dollar decision that they've just made here to sail around all of Africa just to avoid the Red Sea..." (19:35)
• Krystal, on U.S. credibility: "It's a complete mess for the administration. That's not surprising." (40:08)
• On AI disinformation: “It’s a helpful propaganda tool to just be able to muddy the waters and be like, 'this is AI.'” (Krystal, 55:50)

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Summary Takeaways

• The Trump administration's blockade on Iran is widely seen as ineffective, lacking both global support and real blockade enforcement.
• China’s open resistance to U.S. moves signals a dangerous new phase of international power competition.
• The risk of escalation—both diplomatic and military—is real, pressed by hawks in D.C. and echoed in media calls for extreme measures.
• U.S.–Israel relations remain controversial, particularly amidst claims of undue influence and translation manipulation around sensitive negotiations.
• Backdoor diplomacy is hampered by technical misunderstandings and maximalist demands, undermining chances for meaningful peace.
• Modern propaganda battles are exacerbated by AI, as accusations of fakery become a common tool for governments to dodge accountability.

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For more analysis and to support independent media, visit BreakingPoints.com.

Transcript

[Krystal Ball]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Guaranteed Human. When a group of women discover they've

[Krystal Ball]

all dated the same prolific con artist,

[Saagar Enjeti]

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He is not going to get away with this.

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He's going to get what he deserves.

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We always say that. Trust your girlfriends.

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Listen to the girlfriends.

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Trust me, babe.

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On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. How bad at you?

[Krystal Ball]

Then she says, have you seen a photo of my son? And I'm like, who is this person?

[Saagar Enjeti]

Welcome to the boys and Girls podcast. Arranged marriage is basically a reality show and you're auditioning for your soulmate.

[Krystal Ball]

And who's judging?

[Saagar Enjeti]

Only your entire family. I sacrificed myself to this ancient tradition, hoping to find love the right way. And instead, I found chaos and comedy and a lot of cringe. Listen to boys and Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts to realize the future America needs. We understand what's needed from us to face each threat head on. We've earned our place in the fight for our nation's future. We are Marines. We were made for this. Hey, guys, Sager and Krystal here. Independent media just played a truly massive

[Krystal Ball]

role in this election, and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this.

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This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.

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So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today, and you'll get access

[Saagar Enjeti]

to our full shows unedited ad free

[Krystal Ball]

and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

[Saagar Enjeti]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see [e-mail]. good morning, everybody. Happy Tuesday. Have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we. No. Oh, I have to do it whenever somebody else is here. So I think we have something good. Should we do a high five?

[Krystal Ball]

Let's do a high five.

[Saagar Enjeti]

So we at the Bro Show. This is Fascist Points. Welcome Tagar and Emily. Total takeover of the feed for the next two days. So we're going to do our best to convey why we need a benevolent dictator here in the U.S. just joking.

[Krystal Ball]

Just joking.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Don't worry.

[Krystal Ball]

That is the name of the group Chat.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Bash Point is the name of the group chat and I named it. So, yes, all of my critics were correct the whole time. Okay, I have to do Crystal's. This is the hardest part.

[Krystal Ball]

It actually is the hardest part. This is absolutely the hardest part. Because people don't realize we do not have teleprompters.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Right. Exactly. So I have to like go off the top of my head and usually I just sip a coffee. But all right, I'm gonna do my best. Blockade. We're gonna start with a blockade. That's what we're gonna do. At the very beginning, J.D. vance gave a very interesting interview. Said. What did he say? Iran started economic terrorism. Well too can play at that game. Yikes. Not usually supposed to say the quiet part out loud. We're gonna talk about Bibi saying again more quiet parts out loud. Saying that the vice president and the admin on a daily basis. Not talks to him on a daily reports to him on a daily basis. We're also Emily, I'm need you to break this one down for me. Trump posted a photo of himself as Jesus and is now saying he thought he was a doctor. Yeah. So. Yeah. So evangelicals are very upset. He did delete the image. Very, very rare. He also is in a beef with the Pope. That's another thing I'm going to need you to explain to me. Pope Leo is weak on crime. A lot of crime apparently. Just an incredible Vatican by the way. That's right. That one will live on for quite some time. Sohra Bamari is going to join us to discuss this Hungary election where Orban officially lost election for the first what 16 years a center right figure has will now supersede him. But what's more interesting honestly is Orban's alliance with the United States. Remember the vice president JD Literally flew all the way over there just to campaign for him. Orban got completely blown out despite being endorsed by Donald Trump, I think by Bibi Netanyahu. So big shift there. It's not exactly like a bunch of lefties that have taken over but it's interesting nonetheless. Saurabh it's been following that very closely. And then Emily and I are going to discuss Sam Altman and a recent attack that happened on his home. Perhaps what it says about our current society. The FBI made an arrest and raided that person's home who perpetuated the attack yesterday. So we'll have some updates. And then finally we are going to do an interview with Kristen Breitweiser. She is a 911 widow. She lost her husband on 911 and she has some serious accusations against Secretary Howard Lutnick. She alleges that he has not been nearly as helpful to helping 911 widows gain access to the funds that they are. Of course, you know, they rightfully have and as well, has not aligned a meeting with Donald Trump, which she claims that on behalf of other 911 widows was promised to them. We did get a response from Secretary Lutnick and we'll tell you all about what he said during that interview. But before we get to that, please hit subscribe to our YouTube channel. And if you are listening to this on podcast, please share an episode with a friend. And of course, please hit breakingpoints.com and become a premium subscriber. Emily and I are going to do the ama. But with all of that, you did so well. No, this is way harder. This is so hard. I haven't even had a sip of that coffee just yet. Let's go ahead and start with Donald Trump and the latest on the blockade. Here he was speaking in front of the Oval Office with a DoorDash driver from McDonald's. Maybe we'll get to that at one point. Go ahead.

[Krystal Ball]

So this was his attempt. It's tax week. So to set the stage a little bit before we roll the sot, he's trying to highlight the one big beautiful bill's tax benefits to average Americans, hence the door dash driver you're going to see in this video.

[Saagar Enjeti]

No tax on tips initiative.

[Krystal Ball]

Yes. Which is a perfect illustration of politically where he is right now. He's trying to talk about no tax on tips. And instead, this is what happens.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Let's take a listen. Round of talks planned with Iran and if so, will you send Vice President Jamie Vance? Well, he's done a good job at stake, Steve and Jared, they've all done a very good job. And I can tell you that we've been called by the other side. They'd like to make a deal very badly. Very badly.

[Krystal Ball]

What was the sticking point over? You said it was over nuclear.

[Saagar Enjeti]

It was over nuclear. Very similar. Yeah. Very good. I guess you're listening. It's over the fact that they will never have a nuclear weapon. As far as the naval blockade is concerned, what's the end game? Is it to force Iran back to the negotiating people?

[Krystal Ball]

Is it to open up the straits so the gas prices ultimately come down?

[Saagar Enjeti]

Maybe everything. I mean, both of those things, certainly. And more. We can't let a country blackmail or extort the world because that's what they're doing. They're really blackmailing the world. We're not going to let that happen. And you know, the amazing thing is we don't. Can you believe this? We don't Use this trade. We don't need this.

[Krystal Ball]

Right.

[Saagar Enjeti]

We have our own oil and gas, much more than we need. We have more oil and gas than Saudi Arabia. Think of this. We produce more Saudi Arabia and add Russia to it. If we don't need the Strait, why are we blockading it? That's a, That's a very good. Why are we blockading the blockade? Look, I mean, the whole thing is crazy, Emily. He is totally in a vice of his own making. And we can even report to everybody this morning that the blockade's not even working, so.

[Krystal Ball]

No way.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

That can't be right.

[Saagar Enjeti]

No, I'm kidding.

[Krystal Ball]

That's exactly right. It sounds exactly right. I thought they were eager to make a deal. They've been calling President Trump, which is what he just said in that clip, of course. But no, no surprise there at all. As Trump would say, you don't have the cards.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah, let's go ahead and put a two up there on the screen as well. We'll take a listen to this. Where Trump claims that other countries want to help in the blockade. Let's take a listen. Your anticipation, Mr. President, that other countries will assist in this effort to blockade Iran and those. Yeah, other countries are going to also. Which country, sir? We don't need other countries, frankly, but they've offered their services. We'll let it. We'll let it be known probably tomorrow. Has the locking started, sir? Yeah, started at 10 o'. Clock. So we've been trying to track that down and so far we haven't been able to find a single one. Well, let's put a 3 up there on the screen. Here we have the UK, Keir Starmer, probably the most important naval ally of the United States. Starmer says the UK will not join Trump's blockade of Iran's ports. We also know from the French that they will not join the blockade. Germany has not yet said. Nobody in NATO has said that they're going to be joining the blockade. The Japanese, as far as I can tell so far, haven't said. And South Koreans, which we covered yesterday, how furious they are with the nation of Israel. In fact, they have an opposite tactic, Emily. They have a special envoy in Tehran right now on the ground who's trying to negotiate safe passage for Korean vessels. So there's none of that that is happening right now. And of course, the Chinese also issuing threats against Trump on the blockade.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. And this, by the way, is an important part of the case for the war that we continue to hear for supporters of the war, which is that it has once again isolated Iran. Further isolated Iran. And all of America's allies are rallying around the United States. And that is an actual case that I continue to hear. I don't know about you, but I continue to hear that case, too. Well, I mean, particularly with the Gulf allies, but like the free world more broadly, as people talk about now China, we should bring China into this.

[Saagar Enjeti]

A4.

[Krystal Ball]

Let's put it up on the screen.

[Saagar Enjeti]

A4, please.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, this is a Bloomberg tear sheet here. The headline is China Urges Restraint as Trump Threatens to Blockade Hormuz Sager. The Chinese reaction to all of this, not surprising, but also, again, undermining the case that this was some type of 4D chess move that was going to isolate China.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah, what's interesting about the China thing here is they urged restraint. They also came out and they warned Trump. They said, you're not going to threaten our energy alliance with Iran. It has nothing to do with you. Remember, they've been buying a lot of Iranian oil over the years. It's not a huge percent to them, but now at this point, they kind of want to prop up Iran and they want to make sure that they're getting money, especially as an adversary here. We do know that they were some of the people who tried to get Iran to the table in the peace deal, which is very interesting. They're one of the people who actually pushed them over the edge now, though, by antagonizing China and directly threatening to inspect and to board their vessels, which would be heading to Iranian ports. You're in a whole other universe. Right? Like, I mean, imagine, you know, in the United States, a Chinese vessel. Well, if an American vessel was transiting through the Taiwan Strait and it was subject to boarding, and, I mean, we're going to war like that, and significant amount of our trade moves through either Taiwan or the Straits of Malacca, either of those could be very, very easily boarded and or inspected by the Chinese, according to their whole nine dash line claims, which, you know, I mean, who exactly are we to say whenever we're going to blockade Iran? And by the way, blockade is, of course, an act of war, which needs to be authorized by Congress. Congress is actually back in session. Are. Are they going to lift a finger? Probably not. The other thing, you know, just to allude to the blockade not even working is let's put a nine up there on the screen. This was from tanker trackers yesterday. They said we spotted a tanker on satellite imagery which actually departed Carg island and was spoofing, like, its signal to show that it had departed Saudi Arabia. We also got multiple reports this morning. Let's put a 9B, please, up there on the screen. A US sanctioned tanker which was linked to China is actually making its way through the Straits of Hormuz, testing Trump's naval blockade. And we also know that there were three separate ships as of yesterday which were able to get through the Straits of Hormuz. Now, it is unclear exactly what type of ships those are. We do know that some of them are sanctions linked. We don't know whether they're going from Iran or not. It's all very complicated because of this whole spoofing thing where they can claim that they're coming, let's say, from the uae. Apparently, this is a long tested thing now for Iranian sanctioned oil tankers, but it kind of exploded after the Russian oil sanctions, where all of these, like, they're called, like, gray tankers, where they're technically like, kind of uninsured or, you know, outside of the normal legal system, that as or sanction system from the United States. But clearly there's a dark network of tankers and of oil which is moving across the ocean, testing the blockade. So far, at least a few of those ships have gone through all of this. Almost doesn't really matter, because a few ships here or there basically means nothing to the global markets, because you need hundreds of ships which are currently trapped, not to mention all of the oil stored in the Persian Gulf and all of the production capacity OPEC announced yesterday, 27% cut in production in a single month of March. That is, I mean, millions of barrels. And as Rory, who are a frequent guest here on oil, has said, is that dialing that up just takes a long. So you have a shortage in the amount that's being produced. You have a backlog in the stuff that's getting out of the Strait. And now you have China and others testing the blockade. So, I mean, this is a very dangerous situation. Ships can fire upon each other. Maybe the Iranians will threaten to close the Bab El Mandab Strait and or the Red Sea. Like, this all just demonstrates serious danger, I think, for the U.S. like, if you're gonna threaten a blockade and then there's no actual blockade, what are people gonna think, right? I mean, then it's actually humiliating and it's very, very much, I think, fitting with the way that this whole war has gone.

[Krystal Ball]

No, that's exactly right. When Donald Trump is out talking about the blockade, how successful it is, how wonderful it is, and then it's juxtaposed on the split screen with this news about Chinese vessels going right through.

[Saagar Enjeti]

So this, be careful because they're not Chinese vessels, they're owned. It's very complicated. Right. I just want to, I don't want to give a false impression.

[Krystal Ball]

No, you're, you're totally right.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

The point that I was going to make is that you have all of these other countries involved because of ships coming in, and it's not just a conflict between the United States and Iran. When you have vessels flying under other countries flags or what have you trafficking in and out of the strait again, even though it's. There's a blockade that's very, very successful. Of course, lest we forget. But all that is to say that is early World War I days. It has that feel all over it because China obviously also now this is our deep state leaking to like Natasha Bertrand again, allegedly already starting to help, and I said allegedly intentionally help Iran rebuild its military supplies. So that can go in a really, really, really scary direction, especially when you have the American President staking some political claim on a successful blockade and then the potential for him being humiliated.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Absolutely.

[Krystal Ball]

As soon as an American soldier gets hurt, if it happens, the escalation trap explodes yet again.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah. And we have, I think we have 15 different warships in the Straits of Hormuz. I feel like it was a little bit unbelievable until I really started making money.

[Krystal Ball]

It's Financial Literacy month and the podcast Eating While Broke is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month hear from top streamer Zoe

[Saagar Enjeti]

Spencer and venture capitalist lakeisha Landrum Pierre as they share their journeys from starting

[Krystal Ball]

out to leveling up. If I'm outside with my parents and

[Saagar Enjeti]

they're seeing all these people come up to me for pictures, it's like, what today? Now, Obviously it's like 100%. They believe everything, but at first it was just like, you gotta go get a real job.

[Krystal Ball]

There's an economic component to community strife. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. And what I mean by fail is they don't have money to pay for food. They cannot feed their kids.

[Saagar Enjeti]

They do not have homes.

[Krystal Ball]

Communities don't work unless there's money flowing through them. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Hey there, folks. Amy Robach and T.J. holmes here. And we know there is a lot of news coming at you these days, from the war with Iran to the ongoing Epstein fallout. Government shutdown, high profile trials, and what the hell is that Blake Lively thing about? Anyway? We are on it every day, all day. Follow us, Amy and TJ for news updates throughout the day. Listen to Amy and TJ on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia and I'm kicking off a brand new season of my podcast, Math and Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing. Math and Magic takes you behind the scenes of the biggest businesses and industries while sharing insights from the smartest minds in marketing. I'm talking to leaders from the entertainment industry to finance and everywhere in between. This season of Math and Magic, I'm talking to CEO of Liquid Death, Mike Cesario, financier and public health advocate Mike Milken. Take Two Interactive CEO Strauss Zelnick. If you're unable to take meaningful creative risk and therefore run the risk of making horrible creative mistakes, then you can't play in this business. Sesame Street CEO Sherry Weston and our own Chief Business Officer, Lisa Coffey. Making consumers see the value of the

[Krystal Ball]

human voice and to have that guaranteed human promise behind it really makes it

[Saagar Enjeti]

rise to the top. Listen to Math and Magic stories from the frontiers of Marketing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Let's go ahead and put a 7 up there on the screen just again to show you all how the blockade is going. Trump said 34 ships went through the Straits of Hormuz yesterday, by far the highest number since this foolish closure began. Maybe he's right. He has access to information that we don't have, but fortunately for us, there's actually a lot of open source data whenever it comes to these ships. Let's put a 8 up there on the screen. This was from Macro Edge, a economic intelligence firm. They say actual number of straits yesterday or ships in the strait yesterday was 4, contradicting Trump's claim of 34. One oil tanker apparently was allowed to pass through. And as we've just showed you, all the three, at least that we know of so far that were able to come through, all have have been able to do so. Another very, very troubling bit of news actually is a 11. Let's put that up there on the screen. This shows the danger to the U.S. military. And this is from U.S. naval Institute. So they say the carrier USS George H.W. bush is currently operating off Southern Africa as the Iranian blockade begins. Now, you know, they kind of buried the headline because what they're saying is that the USS George W. Bush is off the coast of Namibia because it's going to have to sail around the entire African content a continent. And set to join the growing naval force in the Arabian Sea amid the blockade of the Straits of Hormuz. Now, it deployed at the end of March and it did not sail via a typical transit for east coast based carriers to the Middle East. And the reason why is that this allows the carrier to avoid transiting the Red Sea and the Bab Al Mandeb Strait, which were both hubs of activity and for the Houthis in their drone and missile attacks on commercial shipping in 2024 and 2025. So I think what this confirms more than anything is US fear of the Houthis and of the Red Sea that has not previously yet been closed in the entire Iran war. But it remains like the ultimate trump card if they can close both the Straits of Hormuz and the Red Sea. But look, a carrier costs, I don't know, 100 million a month to deploy. So this is an extra transit time. I forget. Exactly. But it's a decent amount and of course, a ton of fuel, which is all very expensive right now. Not to mention all the guys there. Everybody's getting paid. So you can just think about the multimillion dollar decision that they've just made here to sail around all of Africa just to avoid the Red Sea transit because they're afraid of getting shot at and they don't want to instigate some sort of conflict. If we had complete, total and free confidence that we'd be able to do, then that's what would have happened. But this, I think, really shows the danger also of this current blockade. And there's also a story out this morning from Saudi Arabia, from the Wall Street Journal about Saudi Arabia. They are very afraid of the blockade. They're urging Trump to reverse it specifically because they said, hey, if you close the Straits of Hormuz, then they're gonna close the Red Sea. And that's where 75% of our oil is currently going through. And if that's closed, we're dead, it's over. Then there's not a single drop of oil that's even coming out of and of OPEC's largest producer. So again, it's very embarrassing. Like a US carrier having to divert itself because of a stateless group with a couple of like cobbed together ballistic missiles. I mean, that's humiliating. We're talking about a what multi. I don't even know how much does aircraft carrier cost several hundred million dollars? It's supposed to be the crown jewel of the U.S. navy. It should be able to sail wherever it wants. So that shows you, again, the asymmetry, I think, of the conflict.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, And I was just gonna say the President also says, we've won this war. And part of the objectives of the war were to end support for the proxies, the terrorist proxies. And then you have the aircraft carrier going around the entire African continent at whatever hundreds of millions of dollars cost it takes. And that just, again, undermines his entire claim that the war has been won and is a major, wonderful success. You literally having the aircraft carrier go around Africa to avoid the Houthis. And so the asymmetry is obvious, but at what point does it become necessary for the President to try and completely quash the asymmetry and just say, this is asymmetrical, so therefore, we're going to, like, escalate.

[Saagar Enjeti]

But that's the danger beyond what the

[Krystal Ball]

public is comfortable with.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah, that's the danger. Because, you know, with the Houthis, we tried in 2024 and in 2025, and as I understand it, it was genuinely no holds barred on the Houthis. We did everything that we possibly could to try to take them out, from missiles to bombing. And remember, the Houthi, end of the day, they retained their capability. We basically just packed up our toys and left. And that was humiliating to the United States military. And it was a serious test of the US Navy as well. And it demonstrated the same problem that we found in Iran. Ground or air alone is not going to accomplish it. At the end of the day, a determined adversary will take a lot of damage, but will figure things out. Remember, the Houthis even clipped an F35 during that campaign in 2025, which happened again in the Iran war. You can go and check it if you don't believe me. The interesting thing about all of this, I think, together again, just shows you the problem of trying to do this ad hoc blockade with the immense consequence of the global oil market. So every day that the strait remains closed, that means higher oil or sustained oil shortages, shortages in helium, fertilizer. Already the farmers are freaking out about the fertilizer. Trump said something I forget exactly. Something like, you know, I'm watching fertilizer prices very closely. They better not raise their price. And it's like, at a certain point, like, you have no control over stuff like this. Like, once you've unleashed completely on Pandora's box. So things not going so well right now. And you know, for the escalation that you keep warning about, it's not like there isn't a sustained drumbeat here in Washington pushing this along. Here's Mark Levin immediately over the weekend saying that we should use nuclear weapons to end this conflict once and for all. Let's take a listen. I have in front of me though, you know, the Potsdam Declaration, July 1945. I wasn't even going to mention this, but I have it. And then we have the instrument of surrender by the Japanese, September 2, 1945. And in order to implement the Potsdam Declaration and get them to surrender to the terms that the Allies wanted, we dropped two atomic bombs. Now, I'm not encouraging it. I'm asking you about the law. Is that legal today under the law of war or not? Yeah. So the calculation is a bit different

[Krystal Ball]

when it comes to weapons of mass

[Saagar Enjeti]

destruction because that's really a.

[Krystal Ball]

Those are munitions that have a strategic level effect. And so for us, it would be

[Saagar Enjeti]

the president of the United States who

[Krystal Ball]

decides whether to launch nuclear weapons.

[Saagar Enjeti]

And so which was also the case back in World War II. The considerations are probably a bit different now, but it's still, this law of armed conflict still applies. It's just the decision making process for weapons of mass destruction is elevated because of the strategic nature of the impact of those weapons. So I take that as a possible. Yes, I'm not encouraging it. You know, the left goes crazy and they try to put words in our mouths. I'm just trying to get the, the law nailed down here. I think it would be very helpful to go back and read the terms of surrender for the Japanese, for our envoys to read it because the Japanese were dug in even after the dropping of two atomic bombs. And it took a lot of pressure even after that to get them to surrender. So as you can see there, Mark Levin continues to pound the drum. A lot of ahistorical stuff. Damn. Whatever it comes to his entire reading of Potsdam and all that. But I'll save that for another no. So we have too much stuff to do to get through. People don't want to hear it.

[Krystal Ball]

Oh, I thought we were going to

[Saagar Enjeti]

get it maybe one day, maybe Friday. Yeah, I know you're pulling on the strings, but we would have to go much, much deeper. You also flagged this Emily from Nikki Haley if you want to set it up.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, so Nikki Haley was on Sunday shows, this was CNN talking about. She gets asked directly about boots on the ground. And you could probably predict her answer. But still worth noting. This is a set. So do you believe that the US Military, Special Forces and those who support Special Forces just need to go in and extract the enriched uranium? I think that's probably what it's going to come down to. I mean, this is a special force mission. It would take about a week to 10 days to get done.

[Saagar Enjeti]

They know how to do it.

[Krystal Ball]

It's dangerous. It's not something that we can just sit and think.

[Saagar Enjeti]

It's casual. I think they have to do it.

[Krystal Ball]

But once they do that, they're taking away literally one arm of the Iranian regime to. They no longer can threaten any of our allies anymore. They, I think they've already known it's a small special operations force that they would have to do to, to be able to extract that uranium. Not just any military man or woman could do this. This is Special Forces for sure.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Break this down. What do we listen to?

[Krystal Ball]

So Dana Bash says boots on the ground. And Nikki Haley doesn't want to say yes. She doesn't want to give the yes answer to that. You'll notice she also said, well, it's not something that's just casual, you know, but it is Special Forces, they're trained to do this. So I think that's probably saga you and I have both heard this from different people. Is Delta Force going and digging up the enriched uranium? Nikki Haley is saying that's, quote, probably what it's going to come down to. It would take a week to 10 days. No big deal. It's not casual, but it's no big deal. But she is in a position where obviously the Israelis have their zero enrichment line that they're pushing over and over again. That is, that is likely not making J.D. vance's job any easier or the peace negotiations any easier at all. But this has really become the conventional wisdom in neoconservative, or maybe even just the right word, interventionist circles, is that you're at some point going to see actual boots on the ground. Not just CIA or whatever else, but an actual boots on the ground operation to retrieve the enriched uranium. And when Nikki Haley says she thinks that's, quote, probably what it's going to come down to, I think that's correct. I think that's probably true saga that Trump can only resist the temptation to do that for so long as the war continues to go this way.

[Saagar Enjeti]

And I think it is important also. Last thing that we'll put in here, honestly, kind of a stunning admission from the US Vice president in an interview on Fox News. Vice President Saying Iran tried economic terrorism. So that's what we're gonna do. Let's take a listen. The only thing the Iranians have been able to do, they haven't, of course, beaten us militarily, they've had their military been decimated, they haven't been to prosecute the case. When it comes to weapons of war. What they have done is engage in this act of economic terrorism against the entire world. They basically threaten any ship that's moving through the Straits of Hormuz. Well, as the President United States showed, two can play at that game. And if the Iranians are going to try to engage in economic terrorism, we're going to abide by a simple principle that no Iranian ships are getting out either. We know that's a big deal to them. We know that applies additional economic leverage. And again, Brad, the President wants the Iranian people to thrive. So two can play at that game. Yeah, I mean, look, you know, you're not usually supposed to describe these things in the truth, but I guess that's what we're talking about here. Two can play at that game. That probably strikes very clear to Donald Trump's heart, but it definitely, I think, undermines the entire purpose of, and it just shows the preposterous nature of it is they closed the Straits of Hormuz and are interrupting international waterway. That's why we're gonna blockade the Straits of Hormuz and dis an international waterway. Also, we can do restore the February 27th status quo of free passage through the international waterway. What are we doing here? The whole thing is crazy.

[Krystal Ball]

It reminds me a lot of last week when Trump posted his Easter close the fucking straight or open the fucking street, you crazy bastards, and then threatened to wipe out an entire civilization, never to return again. Whatever he said. Just trying to paraphrase the insanity there. You heard so many of his defenders say, oh, you mean just like Iran chants death to America. Are you saying that justifies the President of the United States who. The entire point of your argument is, should be held to a higher standard because we are. Again, their argument is predicated on the idea that we are the good guys, therefore we aren't the ones that are threatening people with entire civilizational genocide. And then here you have them being like, no, he's just. It's just death to America. It's just J.D. vance saying, well, if they're gonna do economic terrorism, we're gonna do economic terrorism too. And it's an example of, of threatening to stoop to the level that their argument is predicated. On them being better than like that is the argument that we are the good guys here because we don't do that. We don't do the economic terrorism. We don't say, oh, you do it too. Can play at that game. That was the entire purpose of the Western agreements after World War II.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah. All right, so there you go. It is definitely a little bit of a shocking development, but demonstrates kind of the tenuous and dangerous nature that this entire thing has devolved into. Where will things go? We have no earthly idea. They say that they want to talk. They're not talking. Maybe they are talking. We have the blockade, but it's not really a blockade. We have countries that are being involved, but we have other countries that have said that they're not going to be involved. Ships are not allowed to translate, but ships are transiting. Economic terrorism not will be tolerated, but we are tolerating and perpetuating economic terrorism. The only people who are losing is us. What's the price of gas right now? Let's take a. look. National price of the gallon, $4.11. California at 588 a gallon. God bless you all out there. And the price of diesel, let's see, 565 a gallon.

[Krystal Ball]

Yep.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Little bit of a nightmare. Let's get to Bibi. Turning now to the status of negotiations, a little bit of a troubling message here from the Israeli Prime Minister, Prime Minister Netanyahu speaking before the Cabinet, talking about the negotiations and how the Vice President, quote, reported to me in detail. Let's take a listen. I spoke yesterday with Vice President J.D. vance. He called me from his plane on the way back from Washington. He reported to me in detail, as the people of this administration do every day, on the development of the negotiations. In this case, the explosion in the negotiations. The explosion came from the American side, which was not willing to tolerate the blatant violation of the agreement to enter negotiations by Iran. Essentially, the agreement was that there would be a ceasefire and Iran would immediately open the crossings. They didn't do that. The Americans were not willing to accept it. He also conveyed to me that the central issue on the table from the perspective of President Trump and the United States, is the removal of all enriched material and ensuring that there is no more enrichment in the coming years. And this could be for decades. So there you have it. Also, before we continue, this has become a matter of some controversy, so I will tell you that that video that we just played you is from the government press office with the translation, snap translation, which was Provided by the Israeli government. I did not dub it. Nobody else dubbed it. That was an Israeli government translation. They did change the translation later on. And I'm going to go ahead and read it to you. They say he briefed me on the negotiations. I tweeted about this yesterday. It's become a matter apparently of some controversy. So I will give you that. The fact that their snap translation said reported to, which of course to me immediately makes me go reported to me in detail, as this administration does every day. They change a translation from that translation to brief me. If you speak Hebrew and you wanna decide otherwise, that's up to you. Me, I'm gonna go with the snap translation, but I'm just saying, and I wanna make clear that is apparently of dispute and apparently this tweet has become my own personal one. Has become a bit of a controversy inside of the country. So was it on the Internet? I want to present that to everybody.

[Krystal Ball]

It's on their website like that.

[Saagar Enjeti]

It is. Okay, so the government press office of Israel aired that live with that snap translation. It was posted to YouTube. That was taken that clip from the Israeli government's YouTube channel. Again, I want to be extremely clear about where that came from. And it's not BBC, not Sky News, not some third party translator, is really government's translator. They then changed their translation to brief me and other people are now claiming that it is differently. So I just wanna be very clear about that. This has become apparently a matter of some dispute. I don't speak Hebrew, so I cannot be the arbiter of this decision. I will choose to go with what the government's initial translation was. Emily, what do you think?

[Krystal Ball]

Well, I mean.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yes. Which one do you wanna go with?

[Krystal Ball]

The distinction between report and briefed is meaningful in the sense that if Netanyahu was speaking in a way where he wants to convey that J.D. vance is reporting to him, it's different than briefing. Reporting to has obviously a very particular connotation that you are in some way the inferior and you are reporting to the superior. It's, you know, the relationship.

[Saagar Enjeti]

I think that it became a matter of some controversy.

[Krystal Ball]

Of course.

[Saagar Enjeti]

So anyway, they are very desperate to try and to tell me that I am wrong or that their initial translation was wrong. Maybe that's true. If the government of the state of Israel wants to come out and say that their official translation, again, official initial translation was incorrect and that they change their official translation, I will air it here on the show. But as of right now, that is where things stand.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, the reason that it jumps out to you as well is that it's this pattern of Netanyahu, especially speaking Hebrew, boasting about his not authority, but his sway over the American government, which is the reason that it, when you saw it, it jumped out at you.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Of course, I read that and I said, wow, as an American, I, I'm outraged that this person is saying reports to me in detail as this administration does every day. Now, it's theoretically possible, I guess, that he said or meant talked to me every day or briefed me. So I will assess it in the totality of the evidence of why we went to Iran, of the initial snap translation from the government. I will assess it in terms of our relationship with this country, the fact that there was no ceasefire with Lebanon, that it was immediately broken. And I will allow this audience to do so with all the information that I just gave you. To make up your own mind.

[Krystal Ball]

The New York Times story that Netanyahu was, this was the Maggie Haberman, John Swan story from last week, that Trump was not sitting at the head of the table in our own situation Room, that they were across from each other almost as equals in the situation room when he was briefing Trump on why

[Saagar Enjeti]

we should go to war. Right, Exactly. All right, so there you have it. That's where things stand as of right now. All right, let's continue then in this about where the talks actually are and what the statistics, status of them. Let's put the next one up there on the screen from the Financial Times. Mediators are pursuing an Iran US deal in back channel diplomacy. So this one basically alleges that behind the scenes, the US And Iran continue to exchange messages about a deal to end the war through back channels. Despite the failure of the weekend talks. The marathon negotiations in Islamabad ended with the US Vice president blaming Iran for its unwillingness to commit to not developing a nuclear weapon. But two diplomats said that there were active talks ongoing through mediators to extend the ceasefire and secure a more permanent deal. Donald Trump said on Monday that Iran's negotiators had called and want very badly to reach a deal with the U.S. something that we played earlier. People briefed on the discussion said that intermediaries were seeking to convince the parties to hold lower level technical talks to hammer out disagreements over issues such as reopening the Straits of Hormuz and Iran's nuclear program. So that takes us to B3, and this is what really we should talk about, is that the alleged disagreement all stems from this uranium enrichment freeze. The United states apparently demanded 20 years. The Iranians offered five years. Now that five year, I'm told was the same freeze that was offered in February. So they haven't moved at all as a result. Result of the war. They offered this in February in those initial talks with Steve Wyckoff and with Jared Kushner. Now what we're basically told here is that this is just like one of many disagreements over the nuclear program. What the US wants is a 20 year commitment of a freeze. And they want to go in, take all the uranium out and take it out of the country. The Iranians, again, I'm not a nuclear expert or any of this stuff. They want to, I forget exactly how it works, but they want to like dilute it effectively is the way, way that has been destroyed rather than destroyed, rather than have the US come in and take it out and, or destroy it. Now remember, we were told that this was all obliterated. So it's a little complicated. But this remains like the single biggest sticking point. But what everybody is missing is this still doesn't address all of the original demands of the US Ballistic missiles is completely unmentioned. Right? Ballistic missiles is completely unmentioned. You also have the so called proxy group is totally unmentioned. Regime change is like a fantasy at this point. Now we did change the regime, right? Cause we replaced the doddering old ayatollah with the fatwa on nuclear weapons, with his son whose entire family was basically killed and himself has apparently been injured. And who doesn't have a fatwa get on nuclear weapons use. So not great. Whenever I look at all of this, and this is why when we think about all the poison pills that the US or the Israelis or even the Iranians might put in, it's just very, it's very difficult to see where things are gonna go. Remember Lebanon was a big talking point today here in Washington. The Lebanese government and the Israeli government will hold I think trilateral talks with the US as a broker on those talks specifically. And that those will be, I mean, look, we don't know where that's gonna go. It's also the Lebanese government situation is complicated cause they wanna cease fire. But it's not like Hezbollah is necessarily party to those talks. So that's where things stand right now.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, I mean it's a, it's a complete mess for the administration. That's not surprising. To your point about that particularly being or about the five year window being what was already offered and was already on the table in February. That is such a good example of exactly what's been accomplished over the last six weeks, which is things seem to have been even worse or things seem to be getting actually even worse for the United States throughout the negotiations. And the enrichment question. We should talk about that. We can put B3 up on the screen. This Axios tear sheet. This is. Yeah. So this is the Barack Ravid story that we were just talking about on the enrichment US proposed Iran except 20 year moratorium. Okay. So Sager, they want a single digit period. If Trump can get them to 15. If Trump can get them to 15, which I don't know that he can, but if he can get them to 10 or 15, that's. I would say that's. It's still a loss because of everything that's happened over the last six weeks. The blood and treasure of the last six weeks and then possibility that there was something on the table in February that could potentially end the war. Potentially it could end the war, but not with the US in a much stronger position.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Well, Murtaz Hussain made a great point where he was like, you know, they should just agree to 20 cuz it's not exactly like the current government or the international institutions will be around in 20 years to be able to guarantee some sort of a deal. But I mean, look, this stuff does matter because if they technically violate in the future, then that could be an excuse for the Israelis or for Trump to bomb them. So I understand why they wouldn't want to do it. But this also, and this is kind of my bigger point about the technical expert, this was in my opinion the real reason why the February talks were designed to fail. And now that we have all that New York Times reporting about how Trump was determined to strike beforehand. It's true. So I talked to some people who were in the government at the time of the jcpoa. And you don't have to be a fan of that to also know that the way it was negotiated it was a serious endeavor. You don't have to agree with it, but I'm saying it was a two and a half year deal that was negotiated over literally years, not only at the highest level between the Iranian Foreign Minister and the US Secretary of State John Kerry, but also if you. Or was he Secretary. Yeah, he was Secretary of State. Anyway, so the Secretary of State John Kerry, and you also had the Iranian Foreign Minister in a two and a half year relationship. The more important talks had nothing to do with those two. It was all about the technical experts. So the US had nuclear experts along with all the other P5 1 powers, I believe, believe. And Russia and China, right. They were all at the table. And what they were all taught, they had nuclear experts who were hashing out exact quantities of uranium, what they were allowed to enrich, what they weren't. The Iranians were there on the other side. It was all nuclear scientists bilaterally, Right. Or whatever, you know, in some sort of roundtable. None of that occurred with the initial talks of Jared Kushner and Steve Wyckoff. They don't know what they're talking about. Right? So if Iran starts saying stuff like, well, what about 3.67% highly enriched uranium, which is useful for. Or you know, they're like, no, zero enrichment. They're like, yeah, but what about medical grade?

[Krystal Ball]

Right?

[Saagar Enjeti]

So they don't even know. I mean, I don't know the difference either. I'm not a genius, you know, like a nuclear scientist. I have to go and ask one.

[Krystal Ball]

I like how you start saying, I'm not a genius, I'm not a genius. And then you stop because you're like, no, I am actually a genius halfway

[Saagar Enjeti]

through the word I'm absolutely not a genius, which all viewers of this program can attest to. However, I think that the nuclear expert, you know, not even being at the table and remember, even they disagree with each other on all the stuff. That is why, that's why in some ways, like the deal's not really even serious. Because traditionally the way that US diplomacy deals of this type work is you have like endless meetings between these nuclear scientists and then once they agree, they brief respectively to their principles and then those principles meet for some ridiculous handshake ceremony which is totally fake, nothing's actually being negotiated and you sign on the bottom line and everybody walks away and they're all happy. That's what the traditional process is. This is like the inverse. And that's part of why I'm very, very skeptical about all of it. Even ballistic missiles. What do they know about ballistic missiles? And the number and the range. We're gonna cap the range. Like the whole thing is ridiculous. And they could lie, you know, and we could lie too, because that's why these types of like slap shod agreements are bad.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, and we're again, I mean you and Crystal and Ryan make this point all the time, but we are also our ally in these negot is Israel, which is not clear about its nuclear weapons. Yeah, very good.

[Saagar Enjeti]

So all of that literal npt, non compliant state, which is crazy.

[Krystal Ball]

So how are you supposed to come to that conversation with Iran and make this Argument. And this is, I mean, your point about how the experts are negotiating against each other. They're debating against each other. It's just about world destruction, like the capacity for world destruction. Nuclear geopolitics have been a disaster for the human race, even though we haven't had a post World War II nuclear explosion yet. Just weight, that's like the, the most bleak prediction I have for the the future.

[Saagar Enjeti]

But look, you may be right. I think a atmospheric nuclear test is not out of the question by any of the nuclear powers, especially at this point. And considering what's happened, I also think there will be mass nuclear proliferation in the next 25 years, not only as a result of Iraq, but, but so if you have Iraq, Libya and now Iran, all three together, what's the lesson? You better get a nuclear nuke. There's only one country in the axis of evil which survives today, North Korea.

[Krystal Ball]

Yep. And Iran now has this incentive where the public is like, is the public supportive of the irgc? No, a section of the public is supportive of the irgc. But the United States started the war by bombing a school of girls. And if you think that's not going to have a radicalizing effect on some not insignificant portion of the Iranian public, you're just wrong. Wrong. And that's what we see happen with these interventionist conflicts in the least over and over and over again. So if they start racing to enrichment, it won't be a surprise.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah, it certainly will. Now, let's continue down this line about enrichment and again, this is where it all really matters. And about latent nuclear deterrence. So, you know, not to get too complicated about it, but basically they don't want to fully enrich to a bomb because they know that that would mean war. They don't want to want to give up any of their enrichment because that would mean Libya and sodomization. On camera and, you know, complete decapitation by the West. So they want to keep some level of latent nuclear deterrent. That's why they want to have some enrichment. You can understand that. I think everybody can rationally understand that and we don't like it. But of course, if we could topple them, we would have. We just spent a month in a war.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, and our president said he was going to wipe out the civilization, said

[Saagar Enjeti]

he was going to wipe other civilizations. So the zero enrichment line is an Israeli line, which was adopted, did by Mike Pompeo in 2018. But it's been very ambiguous. When you say no nuclear weapon, it's not the Same thing as zero enrichment. The zero enrichment standard has remained here and being pushed by, of course, the biggest neocons in the government. Let's put B4 up there on the screen. Lindsey Graham says, I appreciate President Trump's resolve to end the Iranian conflict peacefully and through diplomacy. However, we have to remember who we're dealing with in Iran. Terrorists, liars and cheaters. If this reporting is accurate, the idea we would agree to a moratorium on enrichment rather than a ban on enrichment would be a mistake. Would we agree to a moratorium for Al Qaeda to enrich.

[Krystal Ball]

No.

[Saagar Enjeti]

The only difference between Al Qaeda and the Iranian regime is that one is a Sunni terrorist organization and the other is a Shia terrorist state. Both have the same goal when it comes to the U.S. israel and the civilized world. World. No enrichment means no enrichment. Over 20 nations have peaceful nuclear power programs without enrichment capability. You can have peaceful nuclear power without enrichment, but you cannot make a bomb without enrichment. Again, no enrichment for Iran. They want a bomb and they cheat. So this actually, ironically is even more of a maximalist position than the initial conversation that was laid out by J.D. vance, allegedly for some 20 year ban. He's saying, no, no 20 years, no enrichment ever. For which of course is a declaration of war. Last thing, B5. Let's put it up there on the screen. Some kind of troubling reporting. This is from the South China Morning Post. They report that Iran, Islamabad after the peace talks finished, that nine Pakistani Air Force fighter jets escorted the Iranian delegation's aircraft all the way back to Iran after they fear a potential attack on the delegation. They're speculating, presumably fearing an Israeli attack. I will just say fearing potential attack. It's not like it's not just the Israelis who would want to kill them, right? You've got Saudis, the uae, There's a lot of other people that they've made very, very angry and that is why those Pakistani jets had to escort them. But you know, beginning with what we did about Bibi Netanyahu and some of his comments, again, which you can take that translation whichever way that you would like, you can just see how there is, is the problem of the pro Israel lobby here in Washington, the Israeli government and its own lines, the talks by the United States, the lack of experts in all of this, the deck is just stacked against getting anything like this done. Let's move on to a very funny story, very interesting story. This one is about a Italian magazine. Didn't think I would be reading an Italian magazine, but here we are in 2026. Let's put this one up here on the screen. So this was an Italian magazine. It has a cover, it says La Buso. I'm not going to try and read this, but I am going to give you a quick translation. The headline is Abuse what is in the new issue of Lespresso, which again is in Italian. Italian magazine which had that cover which shows.

[Krystal Ball]

It does seem like something you would.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Soldier, huh?

[Krystal Ball]

It does seem like something you would.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Absolutely. I don't. I don't read the Italian magazine or the Italian press. So you have an Israeli soldier there with a phone in his hand, seemingly filming what looks like a Palestinian woman. And the sub headline there is. It is about settlers in the West Bank. Okay, so that was the COVID Now what ended up happening is that. Let's put B8 up here on the side screen is that the Israeli ambassador to Italy, Jonathan Peled, put out a statement saying, we strongly condemn the manipulative use of the recent cover of l'. Espresso. The image distorts the complex reality with which Israel must coexist, promoting stereotypes and hatred. Responsible journalism must be balanced and fair. Mediaresponsibility. Now, as people know, I'm not a fan of community notes, but I guess I will.

[Krystal Ball]

You're gonna say of media responsibility, sure,

[Saagar Enjeti]

as people, but of this community note. They say the image on l' Espresso's cover is a real photograph that was taken by an Italian photographer, Pietro Mastruzzo, as part of a West bank settler's reportage. The same man appears in other photos by the Associated or the agents Fray Press. So again, just to show you all that photo, let's put B9 up here on the screen. Here we have from the Middle east eye. It says, Israeli settlers uproot hundreds of trees belonging to Palestinian and in West Bank. You can clearly see the same individual, which is there actually in the photograph. We also have video which has been released now. This video was via a, I believe, an Italian journalist. And we're gonna go ahead and play some of it here for you. Let's go ahead and take a listen if you want to. You can see actually on the screen, there he is. This is presumably when the photograph was taken. Him as well as several other soldiers in the idf. And they are. I mean, there's some sort of confrontation happening. This Palestinian woman is there on the right. These Israeli soldiers are there on the left. He is filming the incident. He did make some sounds. I. It was like unclear exactly what he was saying. But if you want to go and take a Listen to the full video for yourself. At one point you can hear him shouting the word goy goy goy at her. And so yeah, it's clearly not only a true incident, but it is illustrative obviously of what a lot of Western governments, including our own government, allegedly opposes, which is Israeli de facto settlement and control of the West Bank. But it is, yeah, it's a fascinating controversy, isn't it?

[Krystal Ball]

Well, so interestingly, under this, the thread of the post from the ambassador that we put up, this is the Israeli ambassador to Italy, Barack Ravid responded. So former IDF reporter at Axios, he goes, the photo is not real, it's AI. The ambassador responds, hard to prove. Okay, so there you have a tacit admission that he actually has no idea whether or not this was responsible media. Right? That's his hashtag media responsibility. Yeah, he actually has no idea. I want to post with the hashtag ambassador responsibility because how dare you say that this, this journalistic outlet was being irresponsible when you have absolutely no proof that this was somehow AI generated. In fact, the evidence is to the contrary that this was from a video. So he's out there just.

[Saagar Enjeti]

No, it's, look, it's obviously shooting off his mouth. It's real, right? It's very obvious to the point where

[Krystal Ball]

he can't even say it's not.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah, he didn't even deny that it was real. Let's continue. There was this B10, please. This was Rabbi Popco. His biography says 11th generation rabbi, speaker and writer, host of the Jewish World podcast. He says Italy's magazine Espresso Online is publishing anti Semitic. Der Sturmer was a Nazi publication worthy imagery. That should clarify where they got this image from. The military vest worn here is no longer in use by the idf. The wedding ring and bracelet are never worn by ultra Orthodox. The formation of the beard and kippah are outlandish. And of course the very bizarre smile and showing unteith are unnatural. So as they again point out, that photograph was taken by this Italian journalist in the west bank. And the soldier in question has been photographed in other news outlets which included the New York Times. A lot of this actually goes back to the olive tree controversy which we covered here actually on the show with journalist Jasper Nathaniel. So you can go, go and check our coverage on that in the past, but did certainly want to highlight that. And I do think, you know, considering our last story on the show, which we're gonna talk about, which is AI, that one of the problems in our modern media age is that you have all of these people who can claim legitimate images are AI in order to cast out. And, you know, not everybody's gonna watch this segment or, you know, actually take a look at what happened. They're all going, you know, some people may have initially seen that and have said, oh, my God, of course it is AI or something like that. And, yeah, that's all you have to claim nowadays. And vice versa. AI images which people think are real. Like, after that pilot rescue mission mission, there was a completely AI generated image of the pilot being rescued that went viral to the point where, like, the governor of the state of Texas was like, so beautiful. I will never forget this. He didn't say this, but somebody else did. I will never forget this image the rest of my life. It's like, dude is literally AI. Like, it's.

[Krystal Ball]

You should forget it.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yeah, yeah, forget it. It's not even remotely real. So there we go. That's that controversy. Just want.

[Krystal Ball]

It's a helpful propaganda tool to just be able to muddy the waters and be like, and this is exactly what we saw from the ambassador. Actually, bookmark this because it'll come back in. It'll come back in handy in the future because this is a great example where he shoots from the hip and says, this is AI. It's irresponsible. And then one tweet down in the thread, he's like, well, it's hard to prove that it's not right. That's how it's going to work in the future.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Yes, certainly is.

[Krystal Ball]

This is an I heart podcast.

[Saagar Enjeti]

Guaranteed human.