← Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
4/30/26: Tim Dillon Rips US On Iran AI Lego Clips, Dave Smith On Trump Humiliation, Ellison Hollywood Merger
01:06:52
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- [00:00]
Podcast Host
This is an I Heart podcast.
- [00:02]
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- [00:38]
Dave Smith
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- [01:07]
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the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comdisclosures hey guys,
- [02:07]
Krystal Ball
Sager and Krystal here.
- [02:08]
Saagar Enjeti
Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of the show.
- [02:16]
Krystal Ball
This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.
- [02:21]
Saagar Enjeti
So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today, and you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad free, and all put together for you every morning, morning in your inbox.
- [02:32]
Krystal Ball
We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breaking points.com.
- [02:41]
Saagar Enjeti
so, as Rory was just saying there, this war has been predictably, I guess, super online. But I think many people, myself included, have been surprised by the high degree of cultural competency that the Iranians have been able to display in their propaganda videos. And most notably, that shows up in these Lego videos that have been produced. I don't know how many of these have been put out at this point, but they are, you know, very well done. They really demonstrate an understanding of both American online culture and political culture, et cetera. Let's take a look at a little bit of some of the highlights of these Lego videos.
- [03:16]
Political Commentator / Meme Analyst
Yeah. Make America great again. Now you will see what happens. Yeah. Watch this. Sacred defense we protect in the soil why you sacrifice soldiers to pay for your spoil? You thought you ran the blow sitting on your throne now we turning every base into a bed of stone. It's a slaughterhouse, a trap you couldn't see. Welcome to the grave graveyard of your vanity. The secrets are leaking, the pressure is rising we locked on the target and now you are hiding Lo S C R yo we spelling that tonight well,
- [03:51]
Dave Smith
what shall we do with the drunken hegseth?
- [03:53]
Political Commentator / Meme Analyst
What shall we do with the drunken hegseth? What shall we do with the drunken hegseth? Early in the morning K Patel Crazy eyes Epstein files cover up lies Trump name redacted Congress stonewalled before you drop them but you crawl Charlie Kirk shot wrong guy in cuff. We got him. Oops. Total bust. Olympics hockey locker room champ FBI jet to Milan. You absolute tramp. My side honey pot girlfriend trap. Alexis Wilkins is real clap back.
- [04:24]
Saagar Enjeti
I mean, the detail too. Yes, like, like you've got the Epstein files, you got Cash and his girlfriend. You got the hockey team thing. You got Pete Hegseth being, you know, alcoholic. Like, they're hitting all the notes here. And I read an analysis of not just these Lego videos, but the evolution of Iranian propaganda in particular. And apparently these guys who produce the Lego videos, which we're going to show you an interview later with one of them and Dropsite News who got like an exclusive with them, but they are not like a wing of the government. They say they're independent and that the government is a customer of theirs. This report that I read also talked about how they have seen all of these, like, media labs to sort of independently go out and do their thing and that there's been a real evolution and modernization of the Iranian propaganda efforts where it used to be. Everything was framed in this very, like, very heavily wrought religious terms. Flowery, Very flowery. And also the perception was to portray. The goal was to portray Iran as a victim, whereas these videos don't portray Iran as a victim. They portray. Portray Iran as a victor, as a hero that is able, you know, this tiny, mighty nation able to take down this giant superpower. And so every single one of these things goes viral. You know, plenty of normie Americans are watching this content sort of with delight and enjoying the way that they're picking up on our cultural memes. And I think it's been, you know, from their perspective, incredibly effective.
- [05:56]
Krystal Ball
Of course it's been effective. And that's why it's like, look, you don't want to, like, cheer it because ultimately it's about our country. But then also, though there were a lot of people who are cheering it because people don't support the war. This is very ineffective. Look, I mean, you know, you've had efforts like this. The North Vietnamese famously would do all kinds, you know, the famous Hanoi chain, all that. They would invite a lot of anti war activists there. Obviously it caused a lot of controversy in the US at the time. But this one is very different because you don't even have like this wholesale, like, support campaign for the war in the way that even Vietnam did, as bad as that one. I also think the Iranian point is really important. The Iranians, the way that they used to talk is crazy to me and actually showed a total misunderstanding. I'm sure, you know, that famous meme of the Iranian President Khatami saying Alexis de Tocqueville, who I'm sure most Americans have read, where it's like, dude, you clearly don't know anything about us. But I went and I actually read the full transcript of that interview. It was crazily like, like, it was like, targeted at a college professor and their understanding of the U.S. like, I'll read some of this. Actually, it goes, the book reflects the virtuous and human side of the American civilization. In this view, the significance of the civilization is that liberty found religion as a cradle for its growth and religion found protection of liberty as his divine calling. And so he seeks to link the American founding and Alexis de Tocqueville and early society to the Iranian revolution and to theirs, where by about 5 seconds the average person is like, I don't even know what you're talking about. Like, you're like, you know, I've, I've read, I haven't even, I have not read Alexis de Tocqueville's Full Democracy in America. Sorry, sue me. I think it's boring. But, like, that's what they used to be and now it's very Internet based. I think what they were trying to do effectively is they have AI, they have the tools to be able to create these videos, but they understand, like, memeification in the same way that Trump is the first meme president, like the McDonald's thing. You'll. Who will forget the image, like, of Trump leaning out, handing out McDonald's to some guy.
- [08:03]
Political Commentator / Meme Analyst
Well, they get it too.
- [08:04]
Krystal Ball
They're living in asymmetric conflict where they need to try and to humiliate the current president. They can't do it necessarily through traditional media, so they're bypassing it. Yeah, it is a genuine new age.
- [08:16]
Saagar Enjeti
It's pitch perfect for our, like, brain rotted, internetified slopaganda. Yeah, slopaganda culture. And so, yeah, it's going to land much more effectively than the lengthy intellectual discourse that is being offered by some of Iranian leadership. And I also think, you know, to your point about how different the landscape is, it's impossible to imagine, even if the technology exists, it's impossible to imagine similarly pitched videos during the Iraq war landing the same way with the American public. But because there is such dissatisfaction with Trump, with this cast of, you know, buffoonish characters around him, and then most importantly with the war, it creates a fertile ground for Americans not to just take in this content, but to actively, like, have it resonate with them.
- [09:07]
Dave Smith
Which is bad.
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Saagar Enjeti
Which is a crazy thing, right? It's a crazy thing to see. And I also think, you know, it undercuts all of the, a lot of the Western media propaganda efforts to paint Iran like this theocratic extreme monolith. Because if you're connecting with us on the level of our cultural memes and debates, et cetera, then it shrinks that distance between the perception of who Iranians are and what the Iranian state is, and the reality that you have to grapple with of like, oh, they understand us well enough to put these videos together, which are well produced and very clever, and like I said before, like, really tap into all of these cultural flashpoints. Tim Dillon had a funny bit on this in one of his Recent episodes where he's talking about like, what the hell? How are the Iranians even beating us in shit talking? This should be above all else where we are number one. Let's go ahead and listen to that.
- [10:04]
Dave Smith
We're not even winning the shit talking war.
- [10:09]
Political Commentator / Meme Analyst
We're not even winning that. The shit talk. You think America would win that? At least if we're going to win one thing. We're getting bodied by Iranian AI in the war of shit talk. Truly, how embarrassing. We're the country that invented shit talk and we're getting lit up.
- [10:37]
Saagar Enjeti
He makes a great point. I mean, it's not even close. Honestly. Just think about Pete Hegseth getting up there and talking about wrapping himself in the Bible to justify all these bombing campaigns. I mean, that's our version of propaganda.
- [10:50]
Krystal Ball
Remember during the war, what would they do? They would release all these Call of Duty Modern Warfare memes from the White House Twitter account. So they were trying to do the same thing. And I mean, I think that actually is more of a. More proof of how this is the modern media landscape. I hate it here personally. You know, like slopaganda, literally from both. But this effort to like make you laugh or to make you cheer on. I mean, during the war, I remember, remember a lot of the criticism of the White House, they were like, guys, we're in a war. Like, it's not a joke, it's not a video game, literally. And that's what you're trying to do. They would do all of these spliced up propaganda videos of people getting incinerated or getting killed. And the whole point was like, there's a real seriousness to this. But by unleashing this force, I think what they also did was allow the very nation that you're fighting to try to play that same game with irony and with irony, with humor. And that really undercuts, like this big bra, like big strong image that we had here and the Internet specifically. And the virality element. Like, these were designed to go viral and they did. And like, unless you're gonna ban it outright, this is what the future looks like. And it is a real change for Iran itself. Like, really that de Tocqueville, the time of de Tocqueville and Foucault and like all of their. I don't know what's up with their society, but they, their leaders just seem to like, be extremely, like well educated, but flourish people, like, totally disconnected from the way you would talk to a normal democracy. And now, though, these people who are running these accounts it kind of makes sense because what we learned from these drop sign interviews, they're not government officials, they're really young, they're like 25 years old. And more importantly, they were critics of the regime previously, but not in the Razov hollaby way, but they're nationalists at
- [12:40]
Political Commentator / Meme Analyst
the end of the day.
- [12:41]
Krystal Ball
And they're like, look, now our civilization is under attack. Literally. The President said that we're gonna do what we can to try and undermine the war effort.
- [12:48]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah. So let's take a listen to a little bit of this interview that Ryan and Dropsite News was able to get with one of the LEGO video. One of the individuals behind these LEGO videos, just talking about their approach. And I mean, another thing that I think is interesting here is you were talking about the US government videos that are being put out. Those are also meant to like, the audience is also intended to be American consumers. These LEGO videos, the audience, it's intended to be the world, but I think mostly targeted at American consumers. And it also displays the fact that the Iranians understand us so much better than we understand them, which has shown up in the war strategy and the failed war strategy at this point as well. But in any case, let's go ahead and run D2 a little bit of this interview with Dropsite and one of the LEGO creators.
- [13:38]
Interview Host
What kind of messages are you getting from Americans? And did it surprise you to get this much support from the American people?
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LEGO Video Creator
You know, the American people, we didn't expect that, but they, you know, welcome us much more than our expectations. Many people there were ashamed of about their government and their military service done to us, and they say, sorry, I can very well remember that. One of our fans told us in America told us that I am on fire of what's our government doing to you and I'm so sorry. And some other people deliver us some points that can help us for our next videos to improve them.
- [14:22]
Podcast Host
How did you decide to use LEGO as a medium?
- [14:26]
LEGO Video Creator
You know, because LEGO is charming, simple, and instantly understood. It doesn't need to exaggerate reality in lego. Yet it gives you the freedom to add the tiniest, most delightful details that you can enjoy. And it's a universal langu. Almost everyone everywhere has a memory tied to it.
- [14:45]
Interview Host
How long is the process of making one of these videos? And what, what is the process? How do you start? What are the steps that you go through?
- [14:53]
LEGO Video Creator
You know, it's different for different videos. We allocate different times for videos that, including poetry, takes longer. And for others, it's less. And usually it takes about 20 hours to make a video and sometimes it takes two days.
- [15:12]
Dave Smith
Could you talk a little about how
- [15:13]
Podcast Host
many people work on one video and then how many people are in your team?
- [15:18]
LEGO Video Creator
There are less than 10 numbers, 10 people. And our average rate age is about 24. We gather different ideas from everywhere during the day and the time is, when the time is coming, we pick up one we think is much more proper. And after that, directing and writing. Directing begins and editing begins.
- [15:46]
Saagar Enjeti
Incredible to hear the process there. You've got fewer than 10 people, average age 25. They can spin out one of these videos which are really impressive in 24 to 48 hours. And that speed is part of what has made them so resonant. Because something will happen of significance either in American politics or with regards to the war. And by the next morning when I'm waking up, people are already sharing a new Lego video that deals with the subject matter. I just saw our team sent as Trita was tweeting about the latest Lego video and he says it marks a significant pivot instead of taunting. The US military reflects a new chapter where Tehran will seek peace by reaching out directly to the American people, bypassing the US government mirror image of the US strategy of the past decades. Some of the lines are quite noteworthy and will likely resonate with the anti establishment sentiments prevailing among American youth in particular. Quote, I love the Constitution, the way it was meant, but not the way your leaders bypass consent. And that is one thing that's like really different in this era. They don't have to go through, you know, they don't have to go and sit down for an interview and hope it gets the American people. They can go directly to the world and to the American people. And that creates a very different dynamic.
- [16:56]
Krystal Ball
Totally. It's a. It's a new age. It's the slop age. We're all living in it. I guess it's just about who does it better. It is what it is. All right, let's get to Dave Smithy. Standing by.
- [17:06]
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- [17:37]
Public Investing Ad Reader
support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures this
- [18:38]
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- [19:24]
Saagar Enjeti
joining us now to talk about the war and some of the political aspects of it is Dave Smith. He of course is comedian, commentator, notable libertarian and host of Part of the Problem Pod. Great to see you, Dave.
- [19:34]
Krystal Ball
Good to see you man.
- [19:35]
Dave Smith
Oh, good to see both of you guys. Thanks for having me.
- [19:37]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, of course. So just give us your sense of where things are right now, where things are going and what you see as the, the least bad outcome at this point.
- [19:46]
Podcast Host
Oof.
- [19:46]
Dave Smith
Man, it's such a weird position to be in. You know, I know you guys have been in the, in the anti war world for, for a while and I have too. And it's just for all of us, it's like, this is the war that we've been warning against. I've been against this war for 20 years, you know, and, and because they, they've been trying to push it the whole time, as Benjamin Netanyahu has been saying, they're weeks away from making a nuke. And it's this weird, dark feeling to be vindicated in the worst possible way. You're like, just. So many years of being like, this will be a disaster. We do not have escalation, dominance. They can close the Strait of Herm. And then it goes down. And you're like, yeah, exactly. Exactly what we all thought. And part of me at the very beginning of the thing where they're like, they're really convinced that they can take out this regime through the air. And I'm kind of like, I don't know. I mean, maybe. Seems unlikely, but we, we do have a very impressive Air force. Like, maybe they could hit the guy. And then it goes, oh, no, it's exactly what we thought. That's right. So, I mean, look, I, I know you guys have been covering this. I've been watching your show every day for a very long time. And there's. So I guess if I would just put this together at this point. This is the terrible situation that we're in now. Is that the best case scenario is that Donald Trump just walks away from this, but it is just so politically impossible, and particularly with the personality of Donald Trump. You know, when Donald Trump gave that was it a couple weeks ago, he had that. He gave a speech right after the markets closed at like 8 or 9pm and he signaled, if you remember, that we don't really care about the Strait of Hormuz. He said, that's not really our problem. Everyone else gets their oil from the Strait of Humor. We make all our own oil. And then he said, it'll just naturally open up. And he called on other countries to open up. But there was something very positive about that signal, because at least he was signaling. We're going to call it a win, regardless. But then, of course, you saw what Marco Rubio said just on Monday about how well we can accept the reality of Iran, you know, determining who can and who can't cross and what currency they can use. And I was saying on my show, I know you guys were saying back then that even when Donald Trump was trying to make it out, like he. Well, the problem here is that if you were to leave right now and leave Iran controlling the Strait of Hormuz, then this is the greatest Military defeat in the history of the United States of America. There's zero comparison. Just zero comparison. And no, we didn't lose. You know, we didn't lose as many people or spend as much money as we did in Vietnam. And we've had losses in Vietnam and Afghanistan and Iraq. However you determine a loss, you know, you. You lose hundreds of thousands of people, kill millions of people, spend trillions of dollars, and the communists still rule Vietnam. Well, then I guess that's a loss. But we've never transformed our opponent into a global power. To take Iran, this relegated, sanctioned, crippled third world country, and then transform them into a global power. And, you know, I talked about this a bit when I was on Tucker Carlson last. And then me and Sager, we were talking about this a bit after where we were at my place getting really high, and me and Sager were talking about. We were so baked. Yeah.
- [22:58]
Political Commentator / Meme Analyst
And then.
- [22:59]
Dave Smith
I'm just kidding.
- [23:00]
Krystal Ball
But we, I. What did Bill Clinton say? He said I inhaled or I didn't inhale. That's. I didn't say.
- [23:09]
Dave Smith
But. So, like, and we. Me, I'm just so interested in talking about this because it's like, look, if you're trying to be a political actor here, then you should say what Joe Kent is saying. And he. And of course, he's a different guy than me. He's a Ken doll, military guy. And so he'll say, Donald Trump is the only one strong enough to walk away from this now and still survive. But. But I'm no good at being a political actor. I tried to, like, influence the Trump campaign, and we all see how well that worked out. So I'm only good at telling the truth on podcasts. And the truth is that that's not right. That's not right. Donald Trump can't save his presidency by leaving. It would. It's still the best thing that could happen, but Donald Trump would have to accept humiliation and defeat. And so just think about where we're at. To avoid catastrophe, Donald Trump has to sacrifice his ego. Like, if. If that's not out of a Greek tragedy, I don't know what is. But of course, as I think Professor Pape has done a very good job of breaking down. And I never. I never have as much confidence in any predictions I make as he seems to have in his. But I do think that he is right, that essentially, it's almost like the obvious answer here would be to just walk away. Let other countries figure out the straight. All of the economic incentives are for them to work out a Deal, right. Like Iran wants to have some control, but they don't want things shut down. But the problem is that that hands him a win, that hands him veto power over the region going forward. And it's just an utter humiliation. But at least we could end this without a catastrophe if we were to do that. But that, that still means Donald Trump sinking down to probably in the twenties in the polls. I mean, if this whole thing is over and he has nothing to show for it, like he didn't get the enriched uranium, they still support Hezbollah, the regime still stands. And we have this issue with the straight that we didn't have before the war. There just is no spinning that into a win. However, the alternative is the escalation trap, which is just really bad. And he knows he can't, he knows he can't follow through on bridge and tunnel day because he knows the Iranians could take out a desalination plant or two. Just we don't have options. And then just the last thing I'll say is you guys have been covering very well. We really don't know how much damage we've already in crude. You know, like we don't know. I mean these things, the markets are not very good at predicting these things. You know, the markets in. I think you guys made this point on the show, but when they were pumping trillions of dollars into the economy in 2020 while the, the country was locked down, just huge infusions of, of cash, the the market market was at all time highs.
- [25:41]
Political Commentator / Meme Analyst
Yes.
- [25:41]
Dave Smith
So the bailout worked. The market was crashing. They pumped trillions of dollars into it and it went to all time highs was the market wasn't foreseeing crippling inflation, but that did come the next year, you know, and, and so the fact that I don't know this is beyond my pay grade, but 20% of the world's oil goes through the Strait of Hormuz. I'm reading all the reports the same you guys are. Since the US blockade, less total ships have been getting through than at any other point in the war. It's even worse than just the Iranian blockade. I don't know what we find out in four or five, six months from now though. How much longer can we go? These are big questions. And we're really risking calamity already.
- [26:19]
Krystal Ball
Right? I was telling, I talked earlier in the show, There's a new $350 jet fuel surcharge for any flight from Japan. And I was like, well, that's the least of our problems because in a few Months, there'd just be no flight. It was like the flight's just not going to happen, which is, I mean, a disaster. Dave, to your point, when I turn a little bit to domestic politics, which you talked about, there's some new polling here showing Trump actually lower than Jimmy Carter on the issue of inflation. Inflation in 1980. Let's take a listen. We'll get your reaction.
- [26:44]
Political Commentator / Meme Analyst
The number one financial issue. It's the number one issue. Folks saying it's facing their families right now. And Donald John Trump is in the worst position he has ever been on inflation. And more than that, these are the worst numbers I've ever seen for any president. I mean, just look at this. Look at this. According to Ipsos, look at this net approval rating on inflation. We got the latest poll out. He's 49 points underwater. That means that 49% more of the public disapprove than approve of the job he's doing. I went back. You remember Joe Biden. Inflation absolutely crushed his presidency. But at his worst, according to ipsos, he was just 43 points underwater. So Trump is lower now on inflation than Joe Biden ever was, according to Ipsos. And I will note that the inflation rate right now is only about a third as it was back in June of 2022. Yet Trump's numbers are significantly worse than Biden's ever were. You think about inflation sinking presidency, you think of Jimmy Carter. But just look here, okay, if we look right now at, we're talking about net improvements on inflation, this number should actually be 46%, minus 46. And if you look at this, though, even if I raise it a little bit and I correct my error right here live on air, we're talking about minus 46 points versus minus 49 points. Donald Trump is in worse position on inflation than Jimmy Carter was when, of course, Carter then got blown out by Ronald Reagan back in 1980. On cost of living, country is on the wrong track or right track.
- [28:09]
Interview Host
Look at this.
- [28:10]
Political Commentator / Meme Analyst
Among independents, 75%, 75% say the wrong track. Just 9% say the right track. Look, among Republicans, the plurality of Republicans say that the country is on the wrong track when it comes to the cost of living versus just 39%, 45 versus 39. Donald Trump has lost every single part of this electorate. And when you take his name out of the equation, you see even the plurality of Republicans say that the country is on the wrong track when it comes to beef prices we're heading in the summer. Just take a look here. Chance that April 2026 versus 2025. The beef prices are 15% higher, according to Calcium Prediction Market, 75%. People are feeling the pain across different issues, including beef prices as well as at the gas tank.
- [28:52]
Krystal Ball
Quite something, isn't it, Dave, for the president who is literally elected to try and to get inflation under control to end up. And, you know, I was talking about this earlier in the show. I'm curious for your reaction. I will not forgive Biden. You and I ruthlessly criticized the man over inflation and over his management of the Russia in Ukraine. At the end of the day, he did not invade Ukraine this time. Trump actually is the sole reason why this entire thing is happening. The actual choice element of it is, I think, why it's starting to reflect in the polls over inflation and over betrayal by so many of the voters. I'm curious for what you think.
- [29:29]
Dave Smith
Yeah, well, that's, I mean, I think that's almost the only explanation that could explain how, like, I was surprised by that poll because I thought his numbers would be bad, but worse than Biden when the immediate price inflation was so much worse. And same with Jimmy Carter. And I think you hit on it, right? I mean, the idea is that the whole, your whole point, the whole thing you ran on was to not get, to not focus on stupid foreign wars and instead to focus on bringing prices down. And of course, as you guys know, I mean, I mean, you know, inflation is cumulative, so they brag about how it's down. But I think it was Michael Malice who first had the joke. But it's just so perfect. But it's like if you gained £100 in a year, and then the next year you gain £50 and you go, I've lost weight. And you're like, no, you have not. And for everybody who actually, you know, for regular people, which is the biggest story in America right now, is that regular people can't get by, like, you know, the guy, the average guy, even like someone who has like a good job, like a plumber or something like that, that can't buy a house, you know, and they're paying. Their grocery bills are more expensive than they were under Joe Biden. But I will say, because I just, since you played that clip, I really want to take a shot. I don't know that guy's name, but to me, he's a, he's a knockoff. Steve Carnacki. He's not his. He doesn't have the mastery of the, you know, say what you will about msnbc, that Steve Kornacki is the best Numbers guy, man. I mean, he is just. He's memorized every. Anyway, it's, it's incredible.
- [30:54]
Saagar Enjeti
You know, I used to, just, just on the Kornacki point, I used to co host a show with him on MSNBC when I first started there. And I remember his brain is just different. He can, if you give him a date, you can say, like, January 21, 1991, and he will tell you what the headlines in the newspaper were. He can tell you what he had for breakfast. He can remember his day.
- [31:14]
Dave Smith
It's on Election Day. On another level, I still turn into MSNBC on election days just because Steve Kornacki knows every county in the country. Like, anyway, like, this guy should be launched to the, to the front lines. He should literally have, for them, running that MAGA 100% approval poll nonsense at the beginning of this thing that actually really seemed to. Of course, because Donald Trump is Donald Trump. He's brought it up like 15 different times. Like, it really seems like that actually pushed him to. And it's on the level, you know, like, as you guys know, the way you could manipulate polls, like, so when Barack Obama first became president, he was very, very popular. Had approval ratings in like the 70% he was. He had no track record. He was charismatic, great public speaker. We all hated Bush. We were hoping he would be better by the end of his presidency. His approval was way down from there. Not like Trump's or. But it was way down. And imagine someone had just run, but amongst hope and change Democrats, he's still at 100%. Well, yeah, if you put his slogan in front of it. But, like, what? So they, they, they really in an effort. And you guys have been doing a good job covering this, but there's this, like, faux opposition by the Democratic and media establishment that's like, we're against this thing, but we're also going to kind of like give you all you need. This war. If the polls tell us anything. I don't really trust polls. You know, remember during the campaign when it came out that the internal White House polls showed that Joe Biden was going to lose, like, by this huge landslide, but it's like, wait, so you get real polls, but we get nonsense poll? I don't understand it. It's above my pay grade. That being said, if the polls tell us anything, it's that this is the most unpopular war in American history. Donald Trump's approval ratings are about where George W. Bush's was, were after two disastrous wars and he destroyed the economy.
- [33:03]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah.
- [33:03]
Dave Smith
And if this thing Keeps going bad. Donald Trump's going to be in the 20% like this is going to. And you're going to see, look, as long as he's trying to overthrow the Iranian regime or as long as there's a chance that he might topple the regime and the war is still going, the Israel lobby will be behind him no matter what. What if he stopped short of regime collapse? They will turn on him. But what you're going to see in the next few months is the not Israel lobby, just kind of pro Trump pundits, the Steven Crowders and Benny Johnson, those guys, they're going to all start turning on Trump too, because as soon as they realize that there's just no popularity anymore in defending this, it's all going to go downhill. So, but these numbers, I mean, when you really dig into where he is with independence and as you guys said on this, this inflation, which is the biggest issue, I mean, look, people give him credit for securing the border and I do too. I mean, I think that was a real crisis. That is over now. But the number one issue, this is why Democrats are winning on unaffordability. It's all. Anyway, there's one statistic that defines America more than anything else right now, which is that the average first time home buyer is, is 40 years old. It doesn't matter if you're left or right or progressive or conservative. You can't run a functioning society that way. If 25 year olds, 28 year olds, 29 year olds have to get a check from their mom every month, or have to live at home or have to, then they're not grown ups. They can't go start families. They can't go like there's as we all know, right, because we used to be kids and now we're grownups. There's a thing about like, like it doesn't matter. I'm not saying you have to be in a mansion. You got to be supporting yourself in order to like feel good about yourself in order to feel like an adult who's contributing to be in the ownership class where you actually care about society. You know how the difference between when you rent a place and when you own a place and all of a sudden when you own a place, you're like, ah, all right, let's, let's not freeze any pipes. Let's make sure this doesn't like
- [35:02]
Krystal Ball
punk ass kid on my lawn. It enrages me now that you own a lawn, you're like, get the off my lawn.
- [35:08]
Dave Smith
Like you have someone drive a little too fast.
- [35:10]
Industry Commentator
Yeah.
- [35:11]
Dave Smith
Oh dude, someone drives a little too fast by my house.
- [35:14]
Saagar Enjeti
My God I'm hot. You guys would fit in well in my hoa. Apparently.
- [35:22]
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- [35:52]
Dave Smith
That's innerbalance.com support for the show comes
- [35:55]
Public Investing Ad Reader
from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs, ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA NSIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available@public.com disclosure this is Jacob
- [36:55]
Jacob Goldstein
Goldstein from what's yous Problem? Business software is expensive and when you buy software from lots of different companies, it's not only expensive, it gets confusing, slow to use, hard to integrate. Odoo solves that because all Odoo software is connected on a single affordable platform. Save money without missing out on the features you need. Odoo has no hidden costs and no limit on features or data. Odoo has over 60 apps available for any needs your business might have, all at no additional charge. Everything from websites to sales to inventory to accounting. All linked and talking to each other. Check out odoo@o d o o.com that's o d o o.com to your point, Dave?
- [37:41]
Saagar Enjeti
Let me put some. There's this focus group done by the New York Times of Trump voters who are disappointed in Trump. And it's very interesting. Some of the things that they say. First of all, the media and voter is something I will never be able to fully comprehend. But in any case, put E4 up on the screen. We grabbed a couple of the comments from this group, and first of all, you've got in one or two words, finish the sentence. I'm feeling blank about the country these days. Disappointed and sad. Disappointed and hopeful. Okay. Concerned, worried, anxious. Frustrated. Annoyed, discouraged. Surprised and discouraged. Concerned, apathetic, betrayed. And that betrayal really ran through a lot of the responses here. Let's put the next one up on the screen. What grade would you give Donald Trump second term? One dude gave him a C, everybody else gave him D was the most dominant answer, and then three people gave him an F. Let's go to the next one here. I think we have one more slide. What word comes to mind when you think about your vote for Trump in 2024? Regret. Is there anything you wish you could tell your 2024 self as you were about to vote in 2024? Think carefully. When people show you who they are, believe them. Don't trust any of them. Argonus, who's the one who said don't trust any, said it exactly. I would repeat it. Don't trust none of them. If someone's making big claims, they're probably overcompensating for something else. I like that insight, but you do raise a good point about. Look, the truism about Trump's base is he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and it wouldn't matter. And it is true that his voter, like his core base, not his voters necessarily, because some of them were independent and had voted for Biden previously, et cetera. But his core base does still support the war, is still with him, will still buy if he comes out with some kind of a victory narrative even as we're looking at it. And like, this is insane, they will still believe it. So what makes you think that there will be, even among those individuals, that there could be some erosion as a result of this, this catastrophic decision?
- [39:45]
Dave Smith
Well, so like, when you, as you said at the beginning there, it's like getting inside the voter, the, the head of like, the median voter is a very, like, it's hard for. I think we always got to remember, right, there's a difference between the median voter and the people who are, say, watching Breaking points. Yeah. The people who Watch your show or watch my show or what? They're just, they're more invested, they're more involved. Involved.
- [40:09]
Krystal Ball
5% of news consumers, right.
- [40:11]
Interviewer
Yes.
- [40:11]
Dave Smith
Well, look, I mean, if, if Joe Biden, so, so when Joe Biden was forced to decide to pull out of the election. Right. It's because essentially enough people in the Democratic establishment go, he can't win. Like after that debate performance, we don't think he can win. Yeah, they put Biden and he would have lost probably worse than Kamala Harris if he had run. Probably. But Joe Biden still would have gotten 30 something percent, maybe 40% of the voters.
- [40:38]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah, I think I would. If I had to guess 45. 45, yeah.
- [40:42]
Dave Smith
Right. So. So even in the worst case scenario, even when the President is a vegetable, there's still like a huge percentage of people who just, yeah. They vote Democrat or they vote Republican or they, so the question, like the action is always in the coalition, the act. So the difference between Donald Trump having like 50% approval ratings as he did a year and a half ago, or having 33% approval. Well, that's the whole difference. That's, that's the difference between a blowout loss or winning the popular vote and every single swing state. So he's already destroyed that now. You know, I'll just say this because I don't know, I guess, you know, and I've been getting in some arguments with, with some people about this. Yeah. You know, I'm known to even some people close to you. It's good, Crystal. But, but listen, listen, I mean, and look, I, I have really nothing against Kyle or anything like that, but I do think that, look, it is true. There's always been this criticism of Donald Trump supporters that they're like a cult, like following.
- [41:41]
Saagar Enjeti
Yeah.
- [41:41]
Dave Smith
There's no question that there is an element of that with a lot. And then the comment about shooting people on Fifth Avenue, like, yeah, okay, they're essentially, we're running that experiment right now and finding out who will stay by him no matter what. But I do have to say just, just my opinion and maybe I'm not the best guy to sell this message because I did support Donald Trump and vote for him and I did come on your show before all the others and apologize for that, even though that, that is very, that is very trendy these days. I was, I was seven or eight months ahead of most people on that. But whatever, I can't really brag. I voted for Donald Trump and now I'm saying that was a mistake. But I'm just saying. Barack Obama ran on peace. He ran on ending the wars. He ran on closing Guantanamo Bay. He ran on restoring habeas corpus. He ran on a million things that he just never did. And not not only didn't do them, but expanded the worst of the Bush policies and himself was even worse than George W. Bush. If you look up the civil war that he kicked off in Syria, the toppling of Gaddafi in Libya, backing the Saudis in Yemen, Barack Obama killed like a couple million people, just slaughtered innocent people, destroyed all countries and by the way, surged in Afghanistan and then pulled out of Iraq and then reinvaded the country of Iraq. And how many prominent, how many of the most popular pro Obama people turned on him in the middle of his presidency, said he ought to be impeached and removed? He's maybe even the Antichrist, this guy. Not that many. You know, and with Donald Trump, it's been a tsunami. So look, I'm not, I don't think the move like at the same, I mourned the death of the anti war left left for 15 years. I was the anti war left before I got converted to being a libertarian. It broke my heart that they all disappeared under Obama. And when they all came charging back about Gaza, I was like, let's go. They're back. Like, I don't think we need to sit here and get into these arguments of. But you supported Biden and therefore the genocide is all your responsibility or something like that. Like, look, man, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris deserve to lose a thousand times. They deserve to lose a thousand deaths and be launched to the moon and never allowed back on earth for funding the genocide in Gaza. For their whole last year, their administration just totally unforgivable. And Donald Trump deserves the same for all of this. So I think at this point, we're in a really dangerous situation. This war could really spin out of control very easily. And we've never really been in a situation before where there's a war launched and the propaganda apparatus is nonexistent. They cannot sell the American people for this. This is why Mark Levin is openly talking about how we got to bring tech censorship back. I know these guys know they got to shut all of us down. So instead of us sitting here quibbling with each other over who in a forced binary decided this candidate versus that candidate and for what reasons, I think we should just all be opposing this as loud as possible and just to say, you know, because people will say sometimes to me, they'll be like, oh, so you, you Criticize all the presidents. Who was your favorite president. You don't have one who you give a pass to. And it's like, yeah, they're all war criminals. They're all genocidal maniacs. Why should we set the standards so low? They all get an F. The grade from George W. Bush to Obama to Biden to Trump, every single one of them gets an F is just terrible. And I think you do, you know, you do. See, maybe, yes, there are a percentage of people who will support Trump no matter what, but I think less so than any other president of my lifetime.
- [45:14]
Krystal Ball
I hope so. I hope you're right, that we at least see that whenever it comes to war. Dave, as always, we appreciate your time, my friend. Thank you very much. I'll see you at our. Our next smoke session.
- [45:22]
Dave Smith
I got some good stuff. I got some good stuff for us. Don't you worry about that.
- [45:26]
Krystal Ball
I think that's what the kids are saying.
- [45:28]
Dave Smith
No, I really. Can I just, just say I really. I know I say this every time I'm on, but I really do admire both you guys so much. This show is phenomenal. I've been watching you guys since Rising and I, I will say, I think, I think this war in Iran, you're covered. I think this has been the best period of your show.
- [45:43]
Saagar Enjeti
Well, thank you.
- [45:43]
Dave Smith
The entire time I've been watching.
- [45:44]
Saagar Enjeti
I think we feel the same way about that as you do about being vindicated in your anti war analysis of we would take a lower chart ranking and less YouTube revenue for the world to be more peaceful.
- [45:59]
Dave Smith
But you don't get to pick that. So you take your consolation Prize, which is 2 million subscribers and 15 on YouTube is really great. And it's really important to get the truth out to as many people as we can. So thank you, guys.
- [46:10]
Saagar Enjeti
Well, thank you. It's one of the things that does give me hope is even with the overwhelming propaganda on the genocide in Gaza, on pushing for war in Iran and all of that, that people are seeing the truth now. Do we have a democracy worth its salt? Where that matters too much, that's another question. But that's something to work towards in the future. Dave, good to see you. Thank you so much.
- [46:31]
Krystal Ball
Thanks, Dave.
- [46:32]
Dave Smith
Thanks, guys.
- [46:34]
Inner Balance Ad Reader
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- [47:04]
Public Investing Ad Reader
That's innerbalance.com support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type anything prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc, SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosure is available at public.com disclosures
- [48:07]
Jacob Goldstein
this is Jacob Goldstein from what's yous Problem? Business software is expensive and when you buy software from lots of different companies, it's not only expensive, it gets confusing, slow to use, hard to integrate. Odoo solves that that because all Odoo software is connected on a single affordable platform, save money without missing out on the features you need. Odoo has no hidden costs and no limit on features or data. Odoo has over 60 apps available for any needs your business might have, all at no additional charge. Everything from websites to sales to inventory to accounting. All linked and talking to each other. Check out Odoo at O D O o dot com. That's O D O o dot com.
- [48:52]
Interviewer
Why don't we take a look at another industry in America known as Hollywood with a special guest that we have this morning. We have to talk about the Hollywood merger. We have actor India Moore here with us this morning. They are the star of FX's pose and one of these sign signatures. Over 4,000 signatures on a petition to prevent or demand the stopping of the merger between Warner Brothers and Paramount. India, welcome to the show. How are you this morning?
- [49:33]
Podcast Host
Thank you, I'm okay. How are you okay?
- [49:36]
Interviewer
Good. Thanks for asking. Okay. Is understandable. And considering the news, I'm grateful.
- [49:42]
Podcast Host
I'm grateful. I'm still grateful.
- [49:46]
Interviewer
We're grateful to have you. Maybe not grateful for this merger, but wanted you to react to the news yesterday that the Warner Brothers shareholders have approved this $81 billion merger to combine Paramount and Warner Brothers. What is your reaction to that and why did you sign your name on this petition?
- [50:10]
Podcast Host
I think. Well, my reaction is that I was really disappointed and heart sunk, but also not surprised. I think that shareholders are prioritizing and are centering, you know, their financial interests and not really the interests of the people who ultimately were serving through our art. I think that it's a. It's a difficult sort of dissonance between the artists, the creatives and the people who have money, you know, the business people. I don't think that their. Their values are not always in alignment with the motivations of the artists of today. And I think that's what makes this merger so difficult.
- [50:56]
Saagar Enjeti
What are some of the.
- [50:56]
Industry Commentator
Oh, go ahead, Crystal.
- [50:57]
Saagar Enjeti
I was just going to ask, what are some of the. The industry impacts that you're most concerned about here from an art artist's creative perspective?
- [51:06]
Podcast Host
Well, I think that what it seems is that paramount, the creatives, the. Not the creatives, excuse me, but the executives behind Paramount seem to be in political solidarity with the current administration. And, you know, I think the political agenda of the current administration is really scary. You know, they're prioritizing a sort of homogenous monolith of values and principles that don't fit everyone and that don't include everyone. And I think that, you know, based on what we've seen, so much of this, the political landscape that the administration has created is one where they are deciding ultimately who deserves to live and who deserves to die. And I think that it's really, really unfortunate. I don't think that. I think our job as an art, as artists, is to reflect the times, is to reflect people, is to reflect the truths that people are living and experiencing and also to innovate. Right. It's also to be really creative in what we imagine for our future, what we imagine for ourselves, for each other. And I think so much of that could be so beautiful and it can include so many people, and it should. Right. But I think that the current administration feels like a betrayal of the American dream, because I think the American dream is ultimately what everybody deserves. It's to live, it's to have a family, it's to be safe. It's to, you know, have to have, you know, your country respect you, and they're picking and choosing who gets to be a part of that. And I think that this is what this merger is going to amplify in our works. You know, I think they're going to continue to amplify the sort of messaging of who gets to be represented and who doesn't. And that should never be up to people whose values are not. People whose values are money. You know, And I think that it's. I think that it's really unfortunate, but it's not a done deal. The fight is not over. And I think that there's a lot, you know, that people could remain hopeful for. I think we have to continue to sustain pressure, but I think it's also really important to look at what that pressure is. Is that pressure a screaming, you know, and saying, no, no, this is wrong, or is it actually bringing context to why this is a devastating decision? Right. And I think that context that I would hope people are able to amplify and deliver is that the reason why we reflect the experiences of different people is because we live with different people. We share the earth with different people. You know, we share our cities with different people, the land, you know, supermarkets, you know, businesses. And I think that if, If. If we're not able to rationalize why it's important to include everybody on a planet that we're all from, that includes everybody, I think we're gonna have a lot of difficulty, not just in understanding why a merger is bad, but also in understanding why it's important to love. I think ultimately, for me, the political question hits a wall at some point. You know, the political question is, it hits a wall when at some point people are like, well, well, why should I care about issues that I'm not affected by? And that's hard to explain if you don't have love. You know, if. If love is not something that is of value and something that we're not, we're not actually sharing a definition around and exploring what that is. And it's okay that a lot of us struggle with understanding what that means for each other and what the responsibility love holds us to with one another on a shared planet. But I think that art would not exist without love.
- [55:37]
Interview Host
And for you, as on a. Like, a concrete level, as an artist, if, let's say, this merger does go through and basically all of the entities within this new company become basically political vehicles that are off limits to a huge swath of artists, like, what does that take off the table for you as you're thinking about, like, what projects are possible and like, where, where, where are the spaces where. In a world where this is approved and goes through, where are the spaces where freedom of expression can still flourish, like Netflix? Like, are they still decent? Like, what's the.
- [56:15]
Podcast Host
I hope so.
- [56:16]
Interview Host
As artists are thinking, like, okay, this would be a cool show. Let's. Let's pitch it to xyz. Like, what, what are the places left where, if you have
- [56:26]
Podcast Host
a. I'm not sure where the safe, where the safe spaces are. I think we were still on a journey to creating safe spaces for people who have historically been marginalized for who they are. Before this administration came in, you know, we were already still on that journey. And so I think the bar has been set a lot lower. And I think, you know, if. What it means for me is that, you know, it's going to be a lot more difficult for me to work. You know, I've been really vocal about the importance of not, not fighting with other. Not hurting innocent civilians and people, not, not engaging in irrational wars and also the lack, the lack of need. There's no need for the kind of war and conflicts that we're seeing right now. And so I think that if people who are also, if people are benefiting from the war and those same people who are benefiting from the war are also behind the media landscape, escape and who gets to work, then people who are anti war are going to have a difficult time working. And I think also, you know, I. I am a woman of trans experience and I know that a lot of people have different, different opinions or, or beliefs or projections about whether, you know, my expression of the sincerity of my inner witness, of myself is true or not as a woman. And I don't think that. I think people deserve to work out for themselves how they are trying to figure out what it means to, to understand people. Right. Everybody deserves to have that journey. But I think there's so much more at stake for people who are, who are seen as less important or less valuable or just weird because of the way that they exist. And I think that that's becoming such a political issue and it shouldn't be. I think that it's a devastating. It's a devastating direction that we've gone. And my hope is that, I think. My hope is that, you know, we will still be able to have the resources and motivation and love to continue to build and create our own foundations for media, for media and storytelling. I think that that's a really important Thing. But I also think it's important for everyone to value everyone's story. I think it's incredibly important for every single person who carries a different experience to also think about other people who carry a different experience in their pursuit to creating spaces for storytelling. Because ultimately, you know, what we want to fight against is this idea that stories get to be told one way and for one kind of people. And I think that when we do take on the responsibility of creating spaces for people to reflect reality, that it's respected, you know, And I think, like, it's really interesting because you can take a snapshot of someone's life and make a movie out of it, and then someone will call it political. But for that person, that the snapshot is made of, of they're just existing, right? And so I think that even the language political is really confusing. It's really scary. And I think it's been weaponized in a way that has manufactured consent to erase people. You know, you see a black person on tv, oh, that's political. You know, it's like, we don't want politics. And so politics has become a word to codify, like, trouble or discomfort or chaos. And it's really unfair to, I think, to create a broad, I think, landscape out of that, when that landscape is made out of just regular people trying to live their life, who just exist, who are human. So I think we have a lot to do in depoliticizing. Sorry?
- [61:11]
Industry Commentator
Oh, no, no. I was just gonna say.
- [61:12]
Podcast Host
I was just gonna say we have a lot of depoliticizing what it means to be alive. And I think that, you know, we have to. We have to be careful not to define politics by this notion of who gets to live and who deserves not to live. Because ultimately, that's what we're seeing right now. And it's. It's not. It's not good for the future of our humanity, for anyone's humanity. And I think the people who are. Who are unaffected the most should care the most. You know, the people who are affected the most are very angry, are very hurt, are traumatized, are scared, especially when those people don't have resources. So I think that we need more voices. We need more people who can articulate why this is wrong without having, you know, people who don't. Who don't. Who wouldn't be affected. I think are. Are really. Are really. Are really important figures to rationalize why it's important for us to include as many people and everything that is about people.
- [62:20]
Industry Commentator
And I wanted to ask about artificial Intelligence. My own perspective on this is that. But there was already. The industry was already overly consolidated and that was already creating some real ideological weaponization might be the right way to put it. But with artificial intelligence, I mean, everything that's getting fed into the AI. The new season of the Comeback is actually really interesting on this. I was curious inja what you. You're seeing around you, like, what is the mood of the industry? The letter has so many signatories. You're starting to see this problems with AI consolidation be expressed in some of the art itself. Like I just mentioned the season of the Comeback. There's a real. It seems to me from the outside you really do sense that there's some life left in the artists and the creatives who are pushing back right now. That splashy Hollywood Reporter profile of the writer who had been. He's now working as a contractor. He couldn't find work that was published this week and he's now working as a contractor. It seems like people are really, really, really starting to push back and raise the alarm. Is that your sense? Like, what are you seeing around you on the ground in the LA area?
- [63:29]
Podcast Host
I'm not in la in the industry, I guess.
- [63:33]
Interview Host
Good for you.
- [63:34]
Industry Commentator
Yeah.
- [63:34]
Saagar Enjeti
And that.
- [63:35]
Industry Commentator
Good choice.
- [63:35]
Podcast Host
Sorry. I think people are. I think there's two things that are happening. I think that there are people who just really want to work and who are. Who are trying to protect themselves by maybe not being too vocal. And I think that there are people who are also, who are. Who are worried about other people's experience. A lot of people who are worried about other people's experiences, who are being vocal, you know, and who are fighting back, you know. So I think that that's really important. Artificial intelligence is just another way. I think. I think it's another way that people are being erased. You know, a lot of, A lot of, you know, the heart of what, of what it means to interface with a person that really exists. You know, where an artist is drawing from something that comes from the force that makes them alive when they're, you know, either writing on paper or performing on screen. And that it's really scary. We don't know what the invisible connections are between a person that is interfacing with art is, you know, like, we don't know what the metaphysical relationship is to the way that we receive art. But I think that if we replace. I'm. I mean, like, I'm. I don't mean to get woo woo, but like, no, please, I have a.
- [65:02]
Saagar Enjeti
We're not afraid yeah, yeah.
- [65:05]
Podcast Host
But like, I think that, you know, it is, it's. It, it, it, it is. It feels spiritually disrespectful to replace art with artificial intelligence. I think that.
- [65:17]
Saagar Enjeti
I think a lot of people feel
- [65:18]
Podcast Host
that, yeah, there's something that feels like it's between what makes us alive, what makes us live, and the stories that come from that. And so I think that it's, it's really, it. I feel really sad and emotional about anything that is taking away from life. I, I don't know. I, I think that life or money. Life. Money. But those things shouldn't. It shouldn't be life or money. It should, it should be life and money sort of.
- [65:50]
Interviewer
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I am very sympathetic to the Woo Woo case, but for people who maybe just treat movies and TV shows as entertainment, I do think there's a ton for anyone to be worried about with this merger because not only is it going to potentially silence interesting stories like the ones that you've mentioned, but there's just going to be less, a lot less movies, TV shows and jobs. Now, I know a lot of people that work at Paramount and they talk about how everyone at Paramount is walking around kind of like the Walking Dead, like a zombie. They all kind of know when these mergers hit hits that it's going to be mass layoffs. And for anyone that's used Netflix over the last five years, you can see sort of the sloppification of content. There's just a million shows that look thinner and feel thinner and don't feel like the movies and TV shows that we used to watch. And that comes from sort of a industry consolidation. And of course, this one is a major one. I just wanted to list off some of the consolidation that, that Larry Ellison and David Ellison would be now owning if this merger goes through. TikTok, Warner Brothers, Paramount, D.C. studios, Discovery Channel, CNN, CBS, HBO, Fandango, Rotten Tomatoes, Nickelodeon, MTV, Cartoon Network, Food Network, Travel Channel, Animal Planet, Comedy Central, Showtime, tbs, hgtv, among others. So it does seem like there is going to be a lot less for you to watch and what it will be be. Will be worse. Is there, is there a fear in Hollywood right now really upsetting being less jobs?
- [67:35]
Podcast Host
I, I can't. I think, yes, I think there's a fear for less jobs for everyone outside of Hollywood as well. But I just want to say it's extremely frustrating for, you know, the Ellisons, you know, and I, I wish I, you know, I think that I wish I wish them well in life. Honestly, I really want them to be able to have fruitful lives without destroying other people's. But I think that it's really frustrating. I think I heard the elder Ellison say something to the degree of. I. There was like a speech or something that he gave to the beat of creating a system of surveillance or some kind of system that ensures that people are well behaved or something like that. I don't know if you remember that
- [68:23]
Interview Host
that will be on their best behavior.
- [68:27]
Podcast Host
That it's really. It's really patronizing, it's really condescending, and I think it's really stupid because these are some of the most unbehaved people on the planet. You know, I think that they're supporting people who behave horribly, you know, toward other people. So we don't really. You know, when I look down at. When I look at what it means to be well behaved to them, it's really to be submissive. You know, they're calling our good behavior submission. And, you know, I think that that's really, really. It's terrible. You know, they're. They're turning people into. Into slaves, right? They want to. They want to create. They want to create a. A new sort, a Neo. Forgive me for. I don't know if I can find a better language for this. But, you know, when. If you can't. If you can't tell the truth, truth about what your experience is, about what you're. About what you're seeing, if you can't complain about the experience you're having, if you can't. If you can't protest oppression and hurt, you know, like. Or neglect, that's. That's not good behavior. That is, that's oppression. That's slavery. Right? So I think that that's an issue. And I don't have faith in whatever they're doing. I think that whatever they're doing, it's. It's very dark and. And it's scary. I also want to say that everyone should be concerned with the advent of AI, especially in TV and film, but especially most of the people who would be audiences to what we make. Most of the people who are audiences to TV and film are not. Are not like business owners. They're not entrepreneurs. A lot of them are people who work under business owners. They work under. They work under entrepreneurs. These are people who do mo. A lot of manual labor. These are people who, you know, who work very hard to bag our groceries, to scan our groceries when we're checking out in a supermarket. These are people who work in different areas of service. Right. And I think that if those people don't speak up, those people are also manufacturing consent for their jobs to be replaced by AI. So this is a really. If we look at TV and film and the consumer base that we have, the people who are made up of the consumer base of media are people who are. Are working, you know, hard labor that is being threatened and that hard labor is being threatened to be replaced with the same sorts of computer systems that we're seeing generate TV and film content. So they're. The. The connections are overwhelming, and they are. And it's just. There's so. There's just so many reasons why everybody should have an issue with this. And I think a lot of us are tired. I'm tired. You know, my.
- [71:39]
Political Commentator / Meme Analyst
I'm tired.
- [71:40]
Podcast Host
I. We're all tired. And for so many different reasons. You know, like, I'm trying to heal from my own, you know, background in history, what I've gone through, and it's exhausting, and, like, the constant. There's so much fight that we have to do, but I think that we have to evolve the way that we're fighting. We have to. Speaking of the fight that we're fighting so that. So that the. The way that we're fighting doesn't just take away from us, but it also gives to us. And I think that we're not gonna win what we're doing if we don't center love. I really believe that.
- [72:16]
Interviewer
Speaking of the fight, it. Now the shareholders have approved it, some people are calling on California Attorney General to still block the merger. I guess my final question, if I could get from India, and thank you so much for coming on the show, is do you. Do you fear a career reprisal from signing this list? Because this list of people is big, but obviously, this could easily turn into a blacklist if you sign this.
- [72:42]
Podcast Host
Oh, for sure. It already is. I mean, I'm already on a blacklist.
- [72:45]
Dave Smith
Okay, cool.
- [72:47]
Podcast Host
I guess I. I would hope not, you know, but I think, like, I think. I think we need. We need someone to represent people who care about people who have. Who has a lot of power. Who's behind. You know, I wish Mark Ruffalo. And, you know, there's a ton of
- [73:22]
Interviewer
names on the list. Robert De Niro just joined. Polly Hunter. Sophia Coppola.
- [73:26]
Podcast Host
Yeah, like. But I think a lot of some of these people are still working, right? A lot of these people are still working. A lot of these people have been vocal about the most controversial things, and they're still working. And I think that if they are not in solidarity with artists who share and who, who share the same values, who've given up their visibility, their platforms, their careers to sounding the alarm, you know, to, in what's happening to humanity, not just in these silos, that we're referring to industries, you know, that we're referring to as industries. Like, but like, I think that everybody, everybody has to, like, I think all of these people have to. I mean, I would encourage them, you know, Pedro Pascal, like, you know, these are, like, I would love for them to advocate more for artists to not be blackballed, you know, for valuing other people, you know, the. I think that it's just we're advocating in silos and I think that if we are not creating more, more solidarity across artistry, across talent, across industry, then it's going to be a lot more difficult to fight, to fight back, I think to push back against this. So, I mean, that's my message. I think it's intersectional advocacy and solidarity. And I think, I hope that people are willing to take up the challenge to do that.
- [75:00]
Interviewer
Okay, fantastic. Well, India, thank you so much for joining us today. We hope that this merger has a different outcome than what it seems is coming on the horizon. We'll of course, link to you in our video description. Thank you so much for joining us today.
- [75:16]
Saagar Enjeti
Great to meet you, Angel.
- [75:17]
Podcast Host
Thank you so much for your work and for amplifying, you know, what's going on. I really appreciate it. Nice to meet you all, I hope.
- [75:25]
Krystal Ball
Thank you guys so much for watching. We appreciate it. We will see you all. Oh, no, Friday show tomorrow. They'll see you then.
- [75:48]
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- [78:04]
Podcast Host
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.