Podcast Summary: Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Episode: April 7, 2025
Title: Elon Jumps Ship On Tariffs, Mass Protests Erupt, Dem Congressman Faces Off On Tariffs
Hosts: Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti
Guests: Congressman Ro Khanna (California) and Oren Kass (Senior Economist, American Compass)
Introduction
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar delves into the tumultuous developments within the Trump administration, focusing on Elon Musk's opposition to existing tariff policies, the ensuing internal conflicts, and the broader economic and social repercussions. The episode also highlights the emergence of mass protests against these policies and features an in-depth discussion with Congressman Ro Khanna and economist Oren Kass.
Elon Musk’s Opposition to Tariffs
Elon Musk, a significant figure within the Trump administration, has publicly opposed President Trump's tariff policies. In a recent interview regarding European trade relations, Musk advocated for a drastic reduction of tariffs, aiming for a "zero tariff situation" to establish a free trade zone between Europe and North America. He emphasized increased mobility for workers, stating, “[02:36] Ro Khanna: ...freedom of people to move between Europe and North America if they wish.”
This stance directly contradicts President Trump's protectionist approach, leading to open conflict with Peter Navarro, Trump's trade advisor. Musk's critique includes questioning the efficacy of Navarro's expertise, remarking at [03:16], “Elon jumps ship on tariffs... Peter Navarro’s response was dismissive: [03:58] Ro Khanna: Can we go back to Elon Musk for a second? ... Navarro is 100% correct... he ain't built shit.”
Internal Conflict Within the Trump Administration
Musk's dissent has sparked a significant rift within the administration. At [04:16], Krystal Ball probes the internal dynamics, asking, “Peter, is there a rift internally?” The response underscores Musk's protection of his business interests, particularly regarding Tesla's supply chain, which heavily relies on international components:
- “[04:34] Sagar Enjeti: That car from Mexico, China.”
- “[04:37] Ro Khanna: The batteries come from Japan or China.”
This conflict highlights the broader tension between business interests and administrative policies, with Musk taking a stand that potentially jeopardizes his position within Trump's circle.
Economic Implications and Tesla’s Decline
The hosts discuss the adverse effects of the tariff policies on businesses, using Tesla as a case study. Despite Musk's efforts to localize production, Tesla's stock plummeted by [05:12] “Minus nine today...,” signaling investor concerns. Krystal Ball comments on the broader market impact:
- “[05:24] Sagar Enjeti: They are made in America...”
She points out that even companies with strong domestic supply chains like Tesla face significant challenges, indicating that the tariffs may be more harmful than beneficial to the intended economic goals.
Mass Protests Erupt Against Tariff Policies
The episode shifts focus to the widespread public backlash against Trump's tariff strategies. Recent protests, branded as "Hands Off," have seen unprecedented participation with an estimated 600,000 attendees across all 50 states. Crystal Ball narrates footage from various locations, emphasizing the scale and unified messaging of the movement:
- “[19:23] Crystal Ball: ...600,000 people. And the branding is interesting...”
Participants rally against threats to Social Security, Medicare, and other social safety nets, expressing frustration not only with Republican policies but also with perceived inaction from Democratic officials. The protests signify a pivotal moment, potentially shifting political dynamics and public sentiment.
Guest Insights: Congressman Ro Khanna and Oren Kass
Economic Analysis by Oren Kass
Oren Kass criticizes the administration's tariff approach as the "single most destructive act to the American economy and American wealth in modern times." He draws parallels to historical economic policies, noting:
- “[30:23] Ro Khanna: ...the Volcker comparison is very interesting...”
- “[31:45] Sagar Enjeti: ...Howard Lutnick...”
Kass advocates for "smart, industrial, smart tariff policy," emphasizing the need for targeted tariffs rather than blanket approaches. He underscores the importance of industrial policy, workforce investment, and maintaining a strong manufacturing base to foster economic growth and job creation.
Legislative Perspective from Congressman Ro Khanna
Congressman Ro Khanna provides a nuanced view, partially aligning with Kass's critiques while supporting the overarching goal of reducing unfettered globalization. He acknowledges the necessity of moving away from broad tariffs but highlights shortcomings in their implementation:
- “[35:39] Ro Khanna: ...industrial ecosystem and a broader economy...”
- “[38:44] Crystal Ball: ...CHIPS Act...”
Khanna praises bipartisan efforts like the CHIPS Act and emphasizes the importance of maintaining a balance between protectionism and free-market principles. He advocates for phased tariff implementations and the integration of industrial policies to mitigate economic disruptions.
Impact on the Working Class and Future Policy Directions
The discussion pivots to the implications of tariff policies on the working class, particularly those without advanced education or specialized skills. Both guests agree that merely high-tech manufacturing does not address the needs of the broader workforce:
- “[40:33] Ro Khanna: ...strong manufacturing base...”
- “[41:37] Oren Kass: ...multiplier effect three to four times...”
They advocate for comprehensive workforce development, including vocational training and education, to ensure that manufacturing resurgence benefits all economic strata. The importance of creating high-paying jobs that stimulate local economies is emphasized as essential for widespread prosperity.
Democratic Response and Political Ramifications
Krystal Ball raises concerns about the Democratic base's potential polarization against tariffs, citing Representative D'Aluzio’s criticism and the backlash he faced:
- “[44:10] Crystal Ball: ...Rep. D'Aluzio was viciously attacked...”
Oren Kass defends moderate Democratic voices advocating for smart tariffs, stressing the need for thoughtful economic policies that balance protectionism with collaboration and strategic investment.
Conclusion: The Path Forward
In concluding remarks, both guests stress the necessity of intelligent tariff implementation paired with robust industrial policies. They warn against the economic and social fallout from poorly executed protectionist measures and call for a balanced approach that fosters both economic growth and workforce development.
- “[51:02] Ro Khanna: ...phase things in...”
- “[52:07] Oren Kass: ...investment in the workforce...”
Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti underscore the critical juncture at which the nation stands, highlighting the need for informed policymaking to navigate the complex interplay of trade, industry, and social welfare.
Notable Quotes
-
Ro Khanna on Tariff Implementation:
“[02:36] Ro Khanna: ...freedom of people to move between Europe and North America if they wish.” -
Oren Kass on Economic Destruction:
“[30:23] Ro Khanna: This is the single most destructive act to the American economy and American wealth in modern times.” -
Krystal Ball on Market Impact:
“[05:12] Minus nine today...” -
Ro Khanna on Industrial Policy:
“[35:39] Ro Khanna: ...rebuilding the industrial base and a strong industrial base...” -
Oren Kass on Workforce Investment:
“[43:04] Oren Kass: ...make sure that every person in high school has an opportunity to have a trade...”
Final Thoughts
This episode of Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar offers a comprehensive analysis of the detrimental effects of Trump's tariff policies, the internal conflicts they have sparked, and the widespread public opposition they have incited. Through expert insights from Congressman Ro Khanna and economist Oren Kass, the podcast underscores the urgent need for intelligent, targeted economic strategies that support both industrial growth and the everyday American worker.