← Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
5/1/26: New Iran Strikes Imminent?, Platner Beats Mills, AI UnderClass, JPMorgan MeToo
01:29:36
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- [00:00]
Krystal Ball
This is an I Heart podcast.
- [00:02]
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- [02:01]
Krystal Ball
Visit your nearby Lowes
- [02:06]
Emily Jashinsky
hey guys, Sagar and Krystal here.
- [02:08]
Krystal Ball
Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.
- [02:15]
Emily Jashinsky
This is the only place where you
- [02:16]
Krystal Ball
can find honest perspectives from the left
- [02:18]
Emily Jashinsky
and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.
- [02:21]
Krystal Ball
So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.
- [02:32]
Emily Jashinsky
We need your help to build the future of independent news media. And we hope to see you@breakingpoints.com Good morning, everyone.
- [02:38]
Ryan Grim
It is Friday, May 1st, here at Breaking Points with another amazing Friday show. Of course, we're joined with the Friday show crew that is Crystal Ball, Ryan Grimm and Emily Jashinsky. How are we doing this morning?
- [02:52]
Emily Jashinsky
Well, we got last names.
- [02:54]
Ryan Grim
We got last names. We'll do middle names, too. We've got a war going on continuing, potentially some war updates with Iran. Graham Platner in Maine has become the presumptive Democratic, Democratic nominee for Senate. We've got some new AI stories about the future Silicon Valley underclass. And we may potentially be checking in on a little bit of drama at the JP Morgan bank if we have time. Crystal, why don't we start with a little bit of Barack Ravid.
- [03:31]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. Go ahead and put this latest report up on the screen. Another market moving report here from Barack Ravid indicating that there are talks going on with Iran. And here, let me, let me take a look at this. So he says Iran gives the US A new response on a draft peace deal. Goes on to say they've delivered their response, the latest US Amendments to a draft plan to end the war, according to a regional source. The Iranian response, a signal that the diplomacy is not entirely frozen, comes as Trump maintains a US Naval blockade and considers new military action against Iran. Can couple that with and Ryan can jump in here some drop site reporting which you know, is somewhat in line with this Axios report about some exchange going on here. The Axios report makes it sound a bit more rosy than what you guys have found, though, over at drop site, right, Ryan?
- [04:28]
Griffin
Yeah, though it does seem, it does seem like there's some discussion of talks unfolding. So I don't know if you have that, Griffin. So Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman Esmael Bague had said yesterday, he said, look, it's, quote, not reasonable to expect, you know, super rapid talks. But added that Pakistan has acted well and has shown good capability in mediation, saying that Pakistan will remain the mediator, which that's a kind of positive sign from them that they're, you know, still in entertaining talks. He also said, quote, the U.S. and the Zionist regime are known for breaking their promises. The greatest guarantee against a repeat of the war is Iran's own power. He also said anything from the Americans should not be immediately believed. And you know, oftentimes what the Americans are saying is misleading. Interesting comment he made. He said Iran's priority is to reach a point where Quote, we can say the danger of war does not exist. So that's like, that's a very clear expression of kind of the Iranian strategic goal that they want to get out of this war, which, obviously, that's actually, you know, pretty reasonable, you would imagine any country would like to say that the danger of war doesn't exist. So as long as, as long as Trump is still, you know, threatening to annihilate their, their civilization, then they haven't achieved that goal yet. And so they want to achieve that, either militarily or, or diplomatically. He also said, and this is. This goes to the kind of people who are saying there's a lot of chaos going on in Iran. He said, quote, unity is not a slogan in these sensitive conditions, we must not go for each other's throats. So for him to say that publicly suggests, you know, there is a lot. There is intense debate within Iran over, you know, how long to let these negotiations go on or whether to. Well, everybody, everyone in Iran says, yes, we're preparing for the war to restart. But then there's dispute about how much to give to Witkoff, Kushner, Vance, Trump, in order to keep them going, rather than just prepare for restarting of the war. But you're right, who knows what to believe? Because it's Friday, we're going into the weekend. Trump wants to pump the markets, push oil prices, oil futures down, although he's colliding with physical reality at this point as well.
- [07:06]
Ryan Grim
Yeah, and speaking of that, we've got two clips here from Trump about a deal and about building plants all over the country. First, let's hear about that deal.
- [07:18]
Donald Trump (clip)
Really great. Yeah. And that's going to carry forward. Look, the country's doing really well, and that's despite a military operation.
- [07:26]
Krystal Ball
I don't call it a war.
- [07:28]
Donald Trump (clip)
Military operation, where really, I mean, Iran is dying to make a deal. I can only tell you that I don't want to get into the. But they gotta. They cannot be nuclear other than that. But they are. Their navy's gone, their air force is gone. Every ounce of any form of equipment, practically, is gone. You know, they're. Their drone factories are about 82% down and their missile factories are almost 90% down. And many of their missiles have been knocked out between. They use some. We knocked out more than they used. And it's pretty, it's pretty amazing what's happened. They want to make a deal, but despite the fact that we are in what some people would call a war, we just hit a new high today.
- [08:15]
Ryan Grim
On the stock market, some people are calling it a war. He's calling it a military excursion. Ryan, just quickly, before we get to the second, second clip, you know, Trump mentions nuclear. Do you have any sense, through drop sites, reporting of where Iran is in terms of coming to the table, negotiations with a nuclear deal, or is that kind of off the table for them now?
- [08:37]
Griffin
No, they, they have, they have said that what they would entertain is so they have this 60% enriched uranium, that they would dilute it and that they would, you know, dilute it under the supervision of IEA supervisors, taking it down to a place where it's no longer considered this threat by the United States. They were just Iraqi, was just in Moscow. And afterwards, Putin had a call with Trump where Putin floated the idea of Iran sending the enriched uranium over to Russia. In the 2015 nuclear deal, Russia took 25,000 pounds of nuclear material of enriched, highly enriched uranium. 25,000 pounds. Right now the estimate is that they have something under a thousand pounds, which is amazing. Like, so Obama think about that. Obama was able to do a deal that got £25,000 out of Iran into Russia in exchange for, I think they ended up getting maybe $50 billion or something like that in some, some sanctions relief. And now we're doing a war over 900 pounds. So Iran has said, no, we don't want to send the enriched uranium to a third country. But the fact that Aragi went to Russia and then Putin talked to Trump about that possibility suggests that, that that is negotiable for them.
- [10:10]
Emily Jashinsky
Well, and then you also have the obvious balance of Trump threatening to wipe out the entire civilization and then him saying, you're not allowed to have nuclear weapons, like, just to state the obvious, that's where this has gone.
- [10:24]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, well, and that it brings us to, as, I mean, there's a few other things to say about that Trump clip and where we are or aren't in the development of this, totally not a war war, apparently. So, you know, there's this requirement that the administration go to Congress after 60 days day. Now, the new line from Pete Hegseth is, well, no, no, no, now that we've got this ceasefire, then, you know, the counting stops, so we don't actually have to do that. Which, you know, it doesn't surprise me that they're finding some loophole to avoid any sort of congressional oversight. But in addition, you know, it's. It at least is, I guess, heartening to me that they feel the need to make an excuse at all. I could certainly envision A world where they're like 60 days, who cares? Yeah, good luck. You and what are me, we're going to do what we want to do. De facto the end result is the same, but at least they feel the need to make some kind of an excuse here. And then the other piece that I wanted to raise is while you have, you know, this, at least there's some exchange of information occurring, some potential track, even though, you know, the two sides continue to be worlds apart, I don't think Trump is anywhere close to swallowing the humiliating defeat it would require to actually do some sort of war ending deal. So you've got them very far apart, but at least exchanging some sort of information through mediators. On the other hand, you also have what appears to be new preparations for some new strike package. Under the fantasy and illusion that this time, if we bomb them, then this, this time it'll work where last time for some reason it didn't. This time doing the same thing is magically going to have different results. Tree to Parsi here, highlighting one of the indications that we could be heading in that direction. US ship 61, 500 tons of munitions and equipment to Israel in 24 hours. Two cargo ships carried thousands of air and ground munitions, military trucks and other military equipment. We've also had all kinds of reporting about new strike packages that were being drawn up and military plans that were being made and presented to Trump for him to consider. And we also know that a whole host of neocons who have been very influential in Trump's thinking and his strategy, to the extent that you could call it that, that they have been insisting that what is needed is more pressure, more bombing, that that will then cause Iran to capitulate, that that will bring them to the table. You also have all kinds of, in my opinion, delusional thinking about how if we just enforce the blockade really hard, then in two days the whole economy is going to completely explode and collapse and it'll be the end of everything. And then they'll come crying and then they'll be crying uncle. As Trump put it in some previous comments.
- [13:12]
Emily Jashinsky
I was at a meeting about two weeks into the war that I realized afterwards was actually on the record where Ron Johnson was talking and it was like a small meeting. And Ron Johnson is a pretty earnest guy. If you disagree with them, you're going to, you know, he's, he's saying what he thinks basically. And at that point he, he referred to the war as a quote, two week bombing run, which I'm thinking back on now. Is especially interesting because it's one thing when the, the president says it, Pete Haig says, says it, Marco Rubio says, you know, we're, we've won, it's over. But like this was a sort of normie Republican who wasn't trying to propagandize and the like genuinely believed that this was going to be a two week bombing run. And Semaphore had a story in the last couple of days about how Republican senators, congressmen are now losing their patience for the war. And I just again, like, I think it's, it's an interesting contrast where like I genuinely think he believed and had been told by the administration that this was quote a two week bombing run.
- [14:17]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, I read that, I read that report. Sorry, real quick Ryan. I read that report in the same way that I read the Barack ravid reports about how upset Trump is with Netanyahu, upset Biden is with Netanyahu, blah, blah, blah. So yeah, from the Republicans, I'll believe it when I see it.
- [14:31]
Emily Jashinsky
No, I don't think they're going to do anything about it. I think, but I do think they were like trying to. Yeah. Complain to the press.
- [14:36]
Griffin
Yeah, yeah. It's amazing to think about the fact that they thought that it was going to work last time in a couple of days or two weeks and we're obviously wrong. It did not. Here we are. It's incredible that they think it will work again because they're in such a weaker position this time. Like when they started, here's the six month last six months. So when they started this war at the end of February, oil prices were mid-60s and had been fairly stable for a long time. So they would now be going in, restarting the war with oil prices well over $100 a barrel. Meanwhile, we had two fully operational aircraft carrier striker groups in the region. We had Israel and the US had all of its missile defense systems stocked up and ready to go. We had fully decked out bases in Kuwait, Bahrain, Dubai, Qatar, Saudi Arabia. All of those have been destroyed. The people are working out of hotels. Israel is down to double digit, you know, ballistic missile interceptors which take years to replenish. It's not like they could rearm in the last couple of weeks. And so they're going to go into the with the same idea but with much less capacity to operationalize it. And what the Iranians have shown from the 12 day war to this one is that IQ and education might actually play a substantial role here. Like they are clearly a lot smarter than the people who are running, or they have a system that allows their smarter ideas to come forward.
- [16:22]
Krystal Ball
You know what, to be honest with you, Ryan, I absolutely agree with you that they are much more intelligent than our leadership. But I don't even think intelligence is really the problem. I think it's arrogance. I think that's really the key problem. The Iranians took us seriously. You know, they knew what they were up against, and they planned for it. They thought about it over many years and planned for this. And after the 12 day war, they investigated their own weaknesses and they figured out, okay, what could we do better? What do we need to replenish what, you know, how can we better hide what we've got here, et cetera. Whereas our leadership has this incredibly cartoonish view of Iran, that they're all just, like, unthinking zealots. I don't know. It seems to me, and I've said this before, that our leadership bought the propaganda about Iran that has been sold to our population, whereas maybe in previous generations, there was more intelligence and nuanced in an actual understanding, understanding of the Iranian government and the, you know, Iran as a country. This group are, you know, they're idiots and they're arrogant. And I really think that arrogance, both at the specific leadership level and at the level of empire, is what doomed this to fail. But, you know, to your point, the idea that it's very Israeli logic that one more bombing campaign is going to secure the peace.
- [17:41]
Griffin
More.
- [17:42]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, more assassinations. One more bombing campaign. This time it'll do it. This time, you know, our. Our victory will be assured. And the bottom line is we're just waiting around to see whether we need more pain before we accept the humiliating defeat that has already been dealt. You know, if you think about it, and I can't remember which analyst I was, I was hearing kind of lay it out this way, but we've got. We've got an army, we've got an air force, we've got a navy. Okay, we tried the air campaign, right? We bombed the hell out of them. We hit all kinds of targets. We, you know, murdered little girls at a school and hit their infrastructure and all the stuff, right? That didn't work, and it's not going to work. And it's never worked. There's never been an air campaign that has successfully toppled a government, which is ultimately the goal here at this point. Okay, so that didn't work. Now we've got the navy, we're doing our blockade, and there's all kinds of Hopium around. Oh, yeah. If we just do this for two weeks, they're going to hold all their oil wells are going to explode and they're going to be dead in the water. Two weeks to be similar, right? Exactly. Two weeks to bend the curve. Exactly. And it's, again, we have been sanctioning them for years. Did that cause their government to collapse and capitulate and come crying uncle to the table? No. So why do you think it's going to be different this time? The last thing on the table is the army, some sort of ground invasion. Now, whether or not the official story about the pilot rescue, blah, blah, blah, is entirely accurate, what we could see from that is they learned very quickly going in on the ground in any capacity is going to be a disaster. A disaster. And Trump is very wary of that level of on the ground engagement, and rightfully so, because it would be catastrophic. And the American people are not behind this war. Polling shows it's already as unpopular as the Vietnam War was. At, like, the worst, you know, at the worst time after, like, after years of being in Vietnam, it took years to get to this point, I think six years to get to the level of unpopularity that we're already at with this war. So the American people are not willing to watch our service members be put inserted into Iran and come home in body bags. That is not something that we are going to support. We don't support going to the gas pump and spending what we have to spend there already. So the political landscape for Trump is very constraining and utterly disastrous. So if, okay, the Air Force isn't going to work, the Navy's not going to work, you don't want to do the ground invasion. I mean, the only other thing would be nuclear weapons. Even that you would have to, you know, the number of nukes you would have to drop even to get them to capitulate is insane. And of course, that would be an insane action to take and truly would kick off God only knows what. That's what's on the table. There are no good options here. And Trump, as much as he wants to post his way through it, and he's been very savvy, I have to say, the markets, you know, he's done a good job manipulating the markets and buying him some self some time, et cetera. But ultimately, at the end of the day, it's just a matter of time before we have to accept the reality that has been revealed by this disastrous war.
- [20:55]
Ryan Grim
And speaking of gas pumps and accepting realities, we've got some updates on State Gas prices all across the nation. Every single state has higher gas prices today compared to a week ago. Biggest jumps in Indiana plus 84 cents. Michigan plus 72 cents. Ohio 60 cents. Illinois 39 cents. New Mexico 37 cents. So that does seem to be the only thing right now that Americans are specifically reacting to. And we also have a little clip I want to play here from Steve Scalise on gas prices. Let's take a listen.
- [21:35]
Griffin
You think there's any way that your
- [21:37]
Ryan Grim
party holds on in November to the House?
- [21:42]
Steve Scalise (clip)
Absolutely. And look, it's a path that is focused on turnout number one and delivery. What we've delivered to finally start turning this mess around that we inherited a year and a half ago. People will remember. You go back two years ago we were paying almost $6 a gallon for gasoline. Right now it's in the threes. Obviously we've seen a jump with the Iran conflict.
- [22:09]
Graham Platner
When were we paying 6 still 52
- [22:13]
Steve Scalise (clip)
and a half years ago, I don't think we were.
- [22:15]
Griffin
That wasn't the average.
- [22:16]
Steve Scalise (clip)
Where we are now, we're over 30% below where we were just two years ago. Today we are 30% below where we were two years ago. It's still going to go lower when Iran gets resolved in the Strait of Hormuz gets open. But at the same time, did anybody want a nuclear armed Iran?
- [22:33]
Ryan Grim
So that's woke Iranian media squawk box here challenging the $6 rate from Steve Scalies.
- [22:42]
Emily Jashinsky
I'm reading from a the New York. Sorry, Crystal, go ahead. Reading from the New York NBC affiliate or just an NBC affiliate here where an expert is quoted saying rising tax refunds were outpacing the increased burden of gasoline spending 2 to 1 in March and April. With tax refund season winding down and gas prices still climbing, the hit to consumer spending will become more evident from May. So just think about that. So even if you were getting a refund and it was helping with gas prices, that's what the polling that, that's with where the polling was in the last couple of months. Imagine where the polling is going to go now as people are not supplementing with like tax refunds. That's, you know, like that, that was what just that's already happened. So that's what Republicans are staring down the barrel of in the months ahead with. There's a reason that we keep introducing or we keep interviewing Professor Pape, which is that this is our, this is the argument, which is that it's, it keeps getting worse and worse. You were trapped in this cycle. So unless Trump can figure out a way to, to wiggle out of that. They're looking at actually conditions continuing to get worse and worse.
- [23:54]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, well, I mean, I love how he just makes it up like gas was not $6 gallon to maybe someplace. It was. But you know, in terms of the national average, it's just, it completely fabricated. And then the line that multiple Republicans are going with now, including, you know, high level administration, well, what would you pay to keep Iran from having a nuke? And it's like, well, we didn't have to pay anything because they were willing to give up their nuclear program back in the JCPOA for one, that you all blew up. And then number two again, according to yo Manis before you started this new bombing campaign. And in fact what we're doing is we are paying at the pump so that Iran is more likely to pursue a nuclear weapon. So that is what we're actually paying for is to help create a nuclear Iran. Which, you know, at this point is some intelligent logic for them given the, the geostrategic landscape that we have ourselves created.
- [24:52]
Griffin
Actually, we should, we should poll that. You want to team up with dropsite and we can. It's, it's not that expensive. We should ask that polling question, how much would you pay extra at the pump to guarantee. Let's assume you can even guarantee it to guarantee that Iran never gets a nuclear weapon.
- [25:10]
Ryan Grim
Like zero.
- [25:11]
Griffin
You know, zero to 50 cents. 50 cents to a dollar. A dollar to 50. Like and for how long? I think, I think overwhelmingly people will be like zero or maybe zero to five cents. Maybe somebody would.
- [25:24]
Ryan Grim
Is there a negative option? Can I pay less gas?
- [25:27]
Griffin
Yes. Will will matter. Guarantee they do get it right?
- [25:33]
Krystal Ball
Well, I mean that's what we're. But that's the reality of the situation that we're in is actually we are paying more to help them get Duke, which I mean, they look they like. It is logical for them to do. And I actually do think it would make the region more stable if they had this deterrent. And this is someone, you know, I'm speaking as someone who would love to live in a world where we could reduce nuclear weapons and you know, have deterrence that doesn't involve the potential catastrophic destruction of the entire world. But you know, I'm also dealing with the reality of, of what we live in. But I would say though, Ryan, even like, let's say we did that poll, it's a very hard thing to pull these things in the abstract because I remember when we started, when the Ukraine war kicked off with Russia's invasion. And there was pulling to that effect of asking people like, are you willing to pay higher gas prices to support back Ukraine and effectively this proxy war? And people were like, yes, absolutely. And then when they went to the polls, they were like, absolutely not. So, yeah. So I, you know, it's, it's a difficult thing to really get it, get it. See into the heart of the median American voter.
- [26:39]
Ryan Grim
So we can solve it by. We will put these polls up as gas station TV ads right there at
- [26:45]
Krystal Ball
the pub when you're feeling brilliant, are
- [26:49]
Ryan Grim
you happy about this price? And so, and so that's where we're going to get to the heart of it.
- [26:53]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, there you go. I like, I listen.
- [26:55]
Ryan Grim
They're not that expensive. Maybe we'll put up some DP polling at gas stations. That could be a fun homework assignment for me. But if there's anything else on Iran before we move over to a little bit. Graham Platner News in Maine.
- [27:08]
Emily Jashinsky
Well, I'll, I'll just say Republicans are going to have to run on this war in all of their districts. They're going to have to go home. They're on the ballot. They're going to have to go home and say, this war is a good thing. I support the president over and over again from now until November. That's especially going to kick up over the summer and after Labor Day, as they hit the campaign trail more and more. So I don't really know that they have much power over Trump. Obviously they have power, but that would require them, to Steve Scalise's point, to potentially anger their own base. You know, he said these are base elections. They are base elections. So do you want to depress? I mean, Trump has already done some work depressing MAGA people as much as he thinks, like 100% MAGA voters are with him. Those numbers have actually dipped. They're still high, but they've dipped. So you already have depressed MAGA base. And then if you have these certain districts where the boomers love the Iran war and other MAGA voters hate it and you have a candidate who is owning it and not willing to, like, grapple honestly with what some of their own voters think in a rural place where gas prices are really high and fertilizer is hard to come by. I got a note from my cousin the other day about the problems with fertilizer. Like, it's bad and normal people are starting to feel it. And Republicans have from now November to hear from their voters about it.
- [28:27]
Ryan Grim
So, yeah, I have a question for you on that. What do you, what are they going to do? Are there going to be any defections? Because Trump has made it clear that he's given up on the midterms. He doesn't care about these people. So are they going to, are they going to rebel? Are there going to be any outliers saying, hey, you know, let's wrap this war up, or is it going to be more kind of gaslighting Steve Scalise style?
- [28:48]
Emily Jashinsky
I mean, it's like you've got Thomas Massie and you have like, then the establishment people like Thom Tillis who's, you know, not on the ballot again. So he's definitely trying to make that point. Trump capitulated to him on Kevin Warsh and Jay Powell, so that, and he's already trying to like extract more concessions from it. But no, I mean, I don't think, I think so long as you have 85% of MAGA still in love with Trump. Republicans, that's the their bed, they have to lie in it. They made their bed and they have to lie in it. So that's a huge lever of control that the Trump supporting MAGA base has over Republican candidates in elections right now.
- [29:30]
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- [31:33]
Ryan Grim
But why don't we look northward for a moment to the state of Maine, where big apologies to all of the Janet Mills militia. Mills Mafia. Janet Mills has dropped out, making Graham Platner the presumptive Democratic nominee for Maine Senate. And why don't we start with a little video here?
- [32:00]
Emily Jashinsky
The Mills militias has surrendered to the Nazis.
- [32:04]
Ryan Grim
They've been routed. They've been routed.
- [32:06]
Emily Jashinsky
Sushi, Maine. Yes.
- [32:08]
Ryan Grim
Yes. But why don't we take a look at our last hope to stop.
- [32:12]
Krystal Ball
Emily's been spending a lot of time on Blue sky with those takes. Yes, yes.
- [32:16]
Emily Jashinsky
Maybe I should.
- [32:18]
Ryan Grim
That'd be awesome if Emily was huge on Blue sky for some reason.
- [32:22]
Griffin
You gotta get on Blue Sky.
- [32:26]
Ryan Grim
There's one last chance to stop the platinum menace here with Susan Collins. Let's take a listen to her reaction to these updates in the race news.
- [32:40]
Susan Collins
I'm sure this was a very difficult decision for Governor Mills, and I wish her well. She has devoted her life to public service in the state of Maine in many different capacities. She has served the people of our state, and I'm sure this was a hard decision for her.
- [33:10]
Ryan Grim
Will Platner be easier to beat, in your view?
- [33:14]
Susan Collins
I'm not going to get into
- [33:18]
Donald Trump (clip)
the
- [33:18]
Susan Collins
November election at this point. This is the governor's day, and I think the focus should be on her and her wanting to give her message to the people of Maine.
- [33:36]
Ryan Grim
Riveting stuff. And correct me if I'm wrong, Ryan, but did Janet Mills then endorse Graham Platner, say that she's going to vote for him instead?
- [33:45]
Griffin
She. She did not. She. She very explicitly said that she would not be voting for Susan Collins, but she left open the possibility then of what she would be doing.
- [33:57]
Lowe's Ad Voice
Good.
- [33:57]
Ryan Grim
She won't vote for the Republican. Okay, great.
- [34:00]
Krystal Ball
She said Something like that. I will carefully watch Graham Platner's race and see, you know, as I do with all races in Maine or some blah, blah, blah like that. Yeah, yeah, Schumer. Yeah, yeah, Schumer did jump in, you know, behind Platner, which is obviously very different from his approach with Zoran Mamdani in his own state. And pretty remarkable, given that they share, you know, some very similar views, especially on Israel, which of course, is a problem for. For Schumer. I do want to, just before we, you know, jump into that aspect of it, just pause and reflect on what an extraordinary. What an extraordinary long shot campaign this was. This man, Graham Blatter, had never run for office before, started his race very early. You know, we interviewed him, of course, here, very early, and he was up against the sitting governor of Maine, who is not disliked in Maine, by the way. I mean, her approval rating is not, like, amazing, but it's not terrible either. Um, and Democrats had like, sort of, you know, they were. They were fine with her, but they really were impressed with Platner. So when Mills gets in, of course, there's this huge oppo dump, and there was plenty there to work with, from the tattoo to all the Reddit posts to even, you know, his history and his story about his military service and how long he continued to serve and then, you know, working with this, you know, with this contractor in Afghanistan as well. And so there was a real national consensus that this was going to be the end of him, that, you know, people were going to look at that and say, oh, God, we can't have this guy. We need the electable candidate, Janet Mills. And that is just not what happened at all. In fact, the polar opposite happened. People became more fervently committed to Graham Platner, and his polls just continued to rise to the place where it was undeniable he was going to emerge victorious. Now, there's all kinds of squabbling right now and pieces being written of this one leaking and that one leaking about how Schumer abandoned her and didn't put enough money behind her, et cetera, et cetera. But truly, whatever the behind the scenes internal machinations were, truly the bottom line here is that you had Graham Platner compared to Janet Mills, much younger, really forceful on Israel, really forceful on fighting against oligarchs. And this is where the normie Democratic base is at this point. They were not swayed by the electability arguments, which was most of what, you know, the Mills camp really were offering here. Oh, Susan Collins is going to chew them up and spit them out. I think that is so different from what would have unfolded in previous cycles. And it also makes it very difficult. You know, what we heard from, with Zora Momdani's, oh, well, that's New York City. It's blue. It's totally different. Well, here you have Maine. You know, it's very sort of like normie state, a lot of blue collar workers. A state that a lot of ways has been left behind as well with relatively high poverty. And you know, you can't, you can no longer just blame the, the commie corridor types and the DSA types for wanting this type of candidate at this point. Brooklyn. That's right. And one last, one last point here is that the polls consistently showed that Graham Platner is a stronger candidate versus Susan Collins than Janet Mills was. And I think that also just completely blows the minds. I mean, they just can't accept, you know, the general national consensus, the sort of establishment Democratic mindset, just can't accept that he actually, genuinely is a stronger candidate versus Susan Collins.
- [37:38]
Griffin
Yeah.
- [37:38]
Ryan Grim
And polling point. Oh, go for it, Ryan.
- [37:41]
Griffin
Yeah. In the interesting, in the, like, catty backbiting pieces that are emerging with people, you know, pointing fingers at each other. To me, the most substantial thing that emerged was Schumer's camp saying, okay, here are all the problems with Mills's camp and why it's actually her fault. But on the point of us not spending enough money for her, we couldn't because it would have been too politically toxic because Graham.
- [38:03]
Ryan Grim
Yeah, I got that right here for you.
- [38:05]
Griffin
Yeah, yeah. So Grant, in other words, Graham had too much support from a, a majority of Democrats in the state. And therefore Schumer coming in would have been going up against a majority of the voters and there would have been then too much blowback against him and the national party for meddling in Maine.
- [38:27]
Krystal Ball
Well, and Schumer is so unpopular himself.
- [38:29]
Griffin
Right.
- [38:30]
Krystal Ball
That it would likely not help Janet Mills to, I mean, she already was seen as the Schumer candidate and that was part of the problem for her.
- [38:36]
Griffin
And they dropped, they dropped the negative ads, they went for it. And the polling yawned even further after the negative ads from Mills came out. And then Collins super PAC funded by billionaires who have destroyed Maine came out. They were actually not even as good like Mills had the fancy, like AI voice, which was extremely unethical. But, you know, they, they were, they
- [39:06]
Ryan Grim
put, they put the AI Platner to
- [39:09]
Griffin
the Reddit posts, whereas the Collins post did the same thing, but they weren't even as well done. And I don't, I don't see how those are going to work either. And Emily, really curious for your take on this. He already has center left and the left locked up. Now Collins is gonna, is gonna run our campaign. And I'm seeing all the Republicans calling him a Nazi and saying that, like, making insensitive comments about women who were sexually assaulted. So on what planet they're going woke. On what planet does that work with the right? The right has spent the last couple decades getting called a not or thinking they're always getting called Nazis. Whether they're getting called Nazis or not, it's part of their identity that they're under siege and always being called Nazis. And now all of a sudden you've got the super PAC calling another guy a Nazi. Isn't that going to make them be like, well, actually, maybe he's one of us falsely being accused of being a Nazi by the. How is this going to work on the right? Like, are they all of a sudden feminists? Are they all of a sudden just believing accusations that you're a Nazi?
- [40:20]
Emily Jashinsky
No. I sent this to you guys yesterday. The first statement that the RNC put out called Graham Platner a Nazi. And one of the reasons that the Mills campaign obviously did not work is because people, those attacks just don't, they don't work on Democrats, even like, let alone Republicans, to your point, Ryan. But obviously what they're going for in this race is going to be like independence. And I will say Susan Collins is notoriously hard to beat. She puts up a hell of a fight. Whatever you think of Susan Collins, that woman has shown a wild proclivity to hang on to the seat or a wild ability to hang on to that seat despite where the polls seem to look at different points. Like that was. What was her name? Sarah Gideon. Right. The last time around, Collins go back cycle. Yeah, you go back cycle after cycle, you can bet a lot of money is going to pour in. But it's truly like. It reminds me, Ryan, actually, of that Jon Ossoff ad that everyone was talking about on X over the course of this week, which I'm sure you guys saw. But it was like Ossoff running not on any culture war issues. In fact, in the ad he calls the culture war distraction, which Platner has as well. We don't have to debate that, but it's a really good political line because he puts that in the back burner and then deals with these, like, kitchen table issues of corruption causing average Americans pain and what. Crystal, you can probably speak to this, too. What Winsome Sears did in Virginia was say that, like, we can coast on Dems being woke. Like, let's just. We're just going to throw the culture war at Abigail Spanberger over and over again and not really deal with the affordability stuff in a super high profile. Or it's. We're not going to make that, like, a huge thrust or the. The only thrust of our campaign. And they've had these examples to learn from over and over again. But right away, right out the gate, it's, Platner is a Nazi. Uh, so enjoy how that works out for you guys.
- [42:18]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, well, and the thing with Winsome Sears campaign, too, is then if you're the one running all of the, like, trans bathroom and trans sports ads, then people go, wait a second, y' all are the ones that are obsessed with this issue. You know, Abigail Spamberger is over here, actually. She did a lot of, like, I'm a national security Dem type of thing in Virginia, but she also did a lot of affordability messaging as well. You know, I. We'll see what happens in the race. But I do think that things have become so polarized and partisan now. It's hard for me to see how Susan Collins hangs on. And you have such. I mean, the generic ballot like Gap in favor of Dems at this point is really quite extraordinary. One thing, Ryan, I wanted to ask you is in terms of the disparate treatment of Platner versus Mamdani when they share very similar political ideology, if anything, I'd say Platner has been a little more rough around the edges in terms of how he's talked about Israel and Hamas and these sorts of things than Zoron. There's, you know, more to work with there if you're trying to sort of demonize him. I mean, is this. Is Schumer's different approach a recognition of where the Democratic base is, or is it just racism that when he hears it from a white guy, he can stomach it? When he hears it from a brown Muslim, it's not acceptable.
- [43:34]
Griffin
Some of it's racism. Maybe some of it's his backyard. And then some of it is different, you know, tactical environments. I think if Mills dropped out and was like, Maine is a state where independence is, you know, is. Is elevated. Is. Is. You know, I'm. And I am considering running as an independent, you know, just like Angus King is an independent in Maine, then maybe Schumer keeps his powder dry. And so in the In New York, Cuomo, like Alaska. Yeah. And in New York, he had Cuomo as the independent. And so it's embarrassing for a Democrat to not back the Democrat, but he, you know, he would rather win with Cuomo than be embarrassed and back Maldani. So I think he was left with no choice. In Maine, it's like, this is the guy. Like, he is the nominee and she's not running as an independent. So I think that distinction played a role too. But I don't know. Like, I think some of it's also just. Yeah. Racism and rooted in kind of who they are.
- [44:43]
Krystal Ball
Yeah.
- [44:45]
Ryan Grim
Well, why don't we take a listen to the man himself speaking to Jon Stewart this week.
- [44:52]
Graham Platner
There has been more reach out from, I would say more kind of like establishment folks. However, however, this is the important part. Not from like the. Not from like the dscc, not from the dnc. Like the. Like, nobody in the places of power remains interested.
- [45:09]
Ryan Grim
But they're lost, dude. Like, they're. They're lost.
- [45:14]
Graham Platner
And the thing that bothers me the most isn't like, I'm not, I'm not asking for you to, like, be my friend. I'm just. But you should be curious because I'm pulling 40 points ahead
- [45:28]
Steve Scalise (clip)
at least.
- [45:29]
Graham Platner
Just reach out and be like, hey, what are you actually, because we've never. They've never spoken ever. I've never gotten a phone call.
- [45:38]
Ryan Grim
Never gotten a phone call.
- [45:39]
Krystal Ball
I think it was Hasan who said, look like a chud, think like a woke. That's flattener. That's the winning model. But you know, Ryan, I think you identified actually the biggest pitfall for him, which is that Tim Walls is about to come campaign for him in the state. And as much as we might get irritated, like, why isn't the party even reaching out to him? On the other hand, it's actually really great for him to be like, see, have some separation from the Democratic Party brand. Because we all know the Democratic Party brand is extremely toxic. Like, every dye in the wool Democrat is going to vote for Graham Platner. The question is, people who are, you know, more independent and sort of disgusted with national Democrats, are they going to be on board with him? And so the more that he's sort of like subsumed now into that standard issue Democratic Party brand, I actually think that that's like a. More of apparel for him than anything else.
- [46:28]
Emily Jashinsky
Like Dan Osborne, right?
- [46:30]
Griffin
Yeah. I would have Osborne come out there. If I were in Graham's game, I'd have Osborne come out. I'd Keep having Sean Fane and other union leaders come out. Bernie's. Bernie, but Tim Walls, maybe old Tim Walls before he was. Yeah, but he, but he's, he's tainted by that, that VP run. It's. Yeah, that is the risk that he starts to look like part of the like bog. But I, I assume that he gets that. But yeah, here comes Tim Walls. So we'll keep an eye out.
- [47:03]
Krystal Ball
It's interesting that Tim Walls decided like, of all the candidates that let me go, let me go campaign with this one. That's kind of an interesting choice to
- [47:10]
Emily Jashinsky
me after Mills drops out too.
- [47:13]
Griffin
Okay. All right. Before that. But the, his ma. His campaign manager and Graham had a press conference yesterday afternoon. And one of the things his campaign manager said on there is that they, I don't have the exact number, but they had, they started doing the math on the number of individuals that he had spoken to directly. And it was something like approaching like scale. Like they have, they have taken like this, these one on one conversations that he's had at all of these town halls and they're scaling it up into the tens or even hundreds of thousands.
- [47:49]
Krystal Ball
Yeah.
- [47:51]
Griffin
So. And they were saying that when they did some research and polling, they kept coming across people in their polling, huge numbers. Whose, whose reason that they were supporting Platners, that they had met Platner personally and persuade by him. That is a incredible buffer against the negative ads. You see it on TV and you're like, oh, I saw that guy.
- [48:15]
Krystal Ball
I saw Semaphore had a piece quoting some, I don't know, Republican strategists who were like, oh, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna destroy him. We're gonna drop all this money on him. We're gonna do all these negative ads. And it's like, I mean, I'm sure they'll be able to bang up his favorability rating some. But it's not like the Mills people and Schumer people didn't try. So, you know, I think he is somewhat inoculated from the type of attacks that they've been launching. Unless they have something different that we haven't yet seen, you never know. But your point about Maine is an important one. And I don't have any, like, deep familiarity with the state, but from watching, you know, you guys, reporter there and Alex Seitzwald, who also moved back to Maine and has been doing reporting on the ground there. And I also have a close friend who's like, grew up in Maine. And he. Okay, he grew up in Maine. He hasn't lived there in years, and he still was like, what was that guy's name who you said is running? And he, like, reached out to his buddies and, of course, had some kind of a connection to him because it's a very small state and it's much more. There's. There's still. My sense is there's still a lot more sort of like, community cohesion in Maine than there is in a lot of the country. And that's part of what has allowed Susan Collins to be able to win for so long, because she, you know, there are a lot of people there. Like, I know her personally, and she did this, and I saw her there, whatever. But it's also something that can benefit Graham because he is deeply immersed in, you know, Maine community and has been running a campaign, and even before his campaign, he was a, you know, grassroots organizer, and this is what he was doing. So I do think that that is a huge advantage for him and will help to inoculate him against some of those negative attacks that are inevitably coming.
- [49:55]
Ryan Grim
Yeah, well, the negative attack. The negative attacks. I'm going to give some advice to the Republican oppo for a second. It can't be that he's a Nazi, but maybe that tattoo he has is actually trans somehow. Like, maybe it's part of the trans community.
- [50:08]
Emily Jashinsky
Isn't there the trans socialist militia?
- [50:11]
Ryan Grim
Yeah, exactly. There we go. Now we're getting closer to something or. And it's actually. It has its roots in Black Lives Matter. So I would go that direction with the tattoo.
- [50:21]
Emily Jashinsky
I mean, there is some, like, culture stuff that they can make inroads with him on. But what main Democrats just showed, I think is going to apply to Maine voters overall. They have serious affordability concerns. They have kitchen table problems, and they want somebody who is going to address that first and foremost. So they don't trust the political establishment. Susan Collins is the political establishment. The difference in some of these, especially, like more rural states, is that Susan Collins comes across as the antithesis. And to us, that might seem strange, but she comes across as the antithesis to some people of D.C. politics because she's on the ground. She's a very good grassroots politician. She goes to all of the events. That's how she's been able to hang on. And she votes against her own party sometimes. And big decisions, not always, but sometimes in these big decisions. So that is what they'll have to contend with. But if it's just going to be culture war attacks, that's obviously not going to work. It didn't work for Andrew Cuomo. It's not going to work in Maine either.
- [51:26]
Ryan Grim
Well, we mentioned Tim Walls and the Democratic Party stained by the 2024 race. So I thought we should end this segment with a very interesting interview on Pod Save America between Jon Favreau and DNC chair Ken Martin. Now, there has been a 2024 autopsy on the 2024 race. Why? What happened? Why they lost. And it's been kept under lock and key, to which Jon Favreau has some questions about why Ken has not released it. This is a little long and a little inside baseball, but I think it's worth a listen. Let's take a listen.
- [52:04]
Jon Favreau
I want to start with the 2024 autopsy, which you call an after action review. When you won the chairmanship In February of 25, you criticized the DNC's refusal to release their 2016 autopsy is exactly what not to do. You said, quote, was there any utility in doing that? And then promised your 2024 autopsy would be different. Your exact quote was, of course it will be released. Why did you change your mind on that?
- [52:28]
Ken Martin
Well, look, I mean, what I said all along, even when I ran for this position, is that we were going to focus on the things that will help us win the upcoming election.
- [52:37]
Ryan Grim
Right?
- [52:37]
Ken Martin
Making sure that we learn the right lessons that could help inform our victories. And that's what we've done. We said this when we sent out the press release back in November saying we weren't going to release the report. We were going to actually keep our focus, those lessons. And we release those lessons, we continue to do that. So it's not completely accurate to say that we didn't release that. Where we're keeping our focus is on the lessons that can actually help us
- [53:02]
Jon Favreau
win on this show in August. You told me this about releasing the review. Quote, we have to do it to give people who invested so much time, energy and money a sense of what happened and why we lost, especially why we lost. So what changed between August and December? I understand there are lessons, but those are not the full report. Why not release the full report? What's in the report that you wouldn't want to publicize?
- [53:27]
Ken Martin
Yeah, there's no smoking gun in the report. And I know that's. That's what everyone's so eager to learn, the smoking gun. Guess what, John?
- [53:33]
Jon Favreau
But if there's no smoking gun, why wouldn't you just release it then?
- [53:36]
Ken Martin
Because we want to keep the focus on the lessons. Because what ends up happening here is that people, of course, want to Weaponize the report in a way to look backwards and to point fingers, place blame in a way that actually doesn't keep us focused on the upcoming election, but instead the navel gazing of focusing backwards actually takes us backwards. We're 189 days from this election, John. What we don't need to be focused on is actually relitigating 2024. What we need to do is learn the lessons of 24 in the years preceding that can help us win this upcoming election. I get why people are obsessed with it, because there's various groups and organizations and people who think there's some sort of smoking gun in guess what, Sean? In the third closest presidential election in the last hundred years, everything mattered. There's nothing that didn't impact that election.
- [54:25]
Jon Favreau
Why did you spend the money going to 50 states, doing all these interviews, doing all this stuff if. And doing this report in the first place, if you weren't going to release the full results of it? Like, why? I don't get why just you and some of the senior DNC people get to see it, but not most of the DNC members who are, you know, state party chairs. I mean, you know, more than a dozen DNC members told NBC just the other week they want it released, including Congresswoman Delia Ramirez and North Carolina Democratic Party Chair Anderson Clayton. And Anderson said, quote, genuinely, what did you all find that we did not?
- [55:02]
Ryan Grim
And just the top comment on YouTube for that pod Save interview is, we are so fucked. So, guys, Evergreen sentiment, I'm gonna put the question to you. What could the lesson possibly be that is being hidden here?
- [55:19]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, I mean, it's pretty obvious at point. They just, they don't want to put out that the funding and supporting of a genocide in Gaza was actually a political problem. It was not only a moral atrocity, but it was also a political problem for them. I think that's pretty clear at this point. But, you know, I. Ryan, I'm curious if you have anything on this. The first of all, we just have to pause and reflect on what he's trying to sell there, which is he's like, we need to not look backwards, but we do need to learn the lessons so we can win. Well, it's like, but the whole point of this was to learn the lessons so that you could win. It reminds me very much of the Republicans who, whenever they'd get asked about whether or not 2020 was rigged and whether or not Donald Trump really won and Joe Biden was the rightful president. Oh, we shouldn't look backwards. We shouldn't look backwards. Clearly just trying to dodge all of this. The way he's handled is so foolish because let's say you put out the full report and it did say something that was inconvenient about Gaza. Like that would be old news by now. No one would be talking about it anymore. It would be, you know, we'd be obvious 3,000 news cycles later at this point. But because they didn't release it now it's this whole thing. I did see though, Ryan, some speculation on Twitter that perhaps they didn't even completely finish the report and that might be part of why they never put it out. So I don't know if that is possibly part of what's going on here too.
- [56:40]
Griffin
I think that's plausible and I also think, so think, think about what it was, what mid July, when did, when did he finally, now, when did he finally drop out? It was like August right before the, right before the convention. Ish.
- [56:54]
Krystal Ball
When did Sagar get married? Because that's when, that's when he dropped out.
- [56:57]
Emily Jashinsky
It was July. Sagar played his wedding around there in any event.
- [57:02]
Griffin
So in a period, in a very short period, they raised and spent a billion dollars.
- [57:08]
Ryan Grim
A billion.
- [57:09]
Emily Jashinsky
Yeah.
- [57:10]
Griffin
And these are very, there are very specific, it's not, they is very broad. There are very specific consultants and factions and people that spent that billion dollars, who did they, how did they spend it, who did they give it to? What consultants walked away with tens of millions? What firms got paid hundreds of millions? Because we're talking like a billion dollars. Isn't that's an endless amount of money? It's difficult to spend that amount of money in that amount of time. And so I think that's also, they don't want those details necessarily spilled out because a, they will be weaponized by other consultants who felt like they should have been the ones that got to spend all of this money. And also just generally it gives people like us information that we can talk about and like, wow, $190 million doing this. That didn't work. Like, you should be in jail. So I think that, I think that's a significant part of it too, that there's so much money involved that it's just better for them to say, well, we learned some lessons. Trust us that these are the correct lessons that we should learn from this and just follow, follow our guidance going forward. Don't worry.
- [58:29]
Ryan Grim
And what are the current lessons being released that are, that are okay for Normal's eyes to view? Is it that we need to pivot more to the right that we need to not talk about trans issues. What are these lessons that happen?
- [58:42]
Griffin
What even are the lessons they said? Ken Martin said, I think the lessons
- [58:45]
Ryan Grim
are don't be mean to me, please, please keep my job.
- [58:51]
Emily Jashinsky
Ryan, what's the Barney Frank thing? Didn't Barney Frank come out like I actually assume it's probably similar to that. Didn't Barney Frank come out this week? Crystal, you might know this too and
- [58:59]
Krystal Ball
say, yeah, I just saw the headline, he's like dying and decided to as his last act on earth to release some book bashing the left. Talking about how that's my plan which is actually perfect legacy for him, to be honest with you.
- [59:15]
Griffin
Yeah, yeah. Love Barney Frank.
- [59:19]
Ryan Grim
All right, so just, you know that Pod Save America commenter. I think we are all feeling that way right now. Shout out to the dnc.
- [59:28]
Krystal Ball
Shout out to Favreau though. He did a great job of that interview. You know, very persistent, really good lines of questioning. And it is inside baseball, there's no doubt about it. But it's still, you know, very important to see the way that this apparatus functions or doesn't function, who it protects, what messages they find it convenient to put out and what things they want to keep hidden forever. And also just to me, again, the mind blowing incompetence of not understanding the way that the media works and that it's going to be such so much more of an interesting story if it remains hidden versus if you just took the blow, put it out and then everybody can just move on.
- [60:07]
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- [62:12]
Ryan Grim
All right, well that is the Democrats. That's Maine. Why don't we move on to a little AI story? Emily there was a New York Times opinion piece by this woman, Jasmine sun, who talked to a lot of people in the AI industry. She says that she spent the last three months talking to dozens of researchers, economics and policy experts about a AI's impact on work. The AI industry is raising the alarm but can't change course. These companies core business model relies on the disruption they are warning about. Their faith in full automation only makes them go faster. Policymakers are waking up, but still paralyzed by data and debates. Econ wonks disagree on plenty, but even the limited scenario looks like a painful transition that will disempower millions of workers into an underclass well.
- [63:03]
Emily Jashinsky
And this comes as the news this week of pretty big layoffs at Meta, which Ryan and I covered on Wednesday. Other tech companies have undergone similar layoffs, by the way. They're getting lots of money from the government right now. Lots of privileges at the very least from the government right now. So you always love to see that when people are getting government privileges and then also laying off tens of thousands of workers or thousands of workers. So obviously there's panic right now in Silicon Valley. They're the ones who told everybody to learn to code and they because they were smarter than the rest of us, they did learn to code and they've now found themselves in quite a predicament because a lot of those certainly entry level and mid level jobs can be consolidated. And this is, I mean, there's debate in Silicon Valley, and I'm curious, Crystal, particularly what you think about this, on how much you can actually replace humans with generative AI, to what degree? You still need some human element. But I actually think we're starting to get the answer because the layoffs and the positions just being like wiped from databases, like they're not hiring for certain positions anymore. That's starting to give us an answer. If they think they can replace those workers, obviously they're doing it at this point. So we're just seeing the tip of the iceberg, I think, in the economy.
- [64:26]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. And part of the point that this woman makes in this article actually is that even as it's unknowable, exactly how humans can be replaced by AI, number one, you have all of the top AI CEOs saying this is what we're doing, this is the goal, this is the direction we're heading in. You see the impact already with coders to your point, with college, new college graduates graduating and sending out hundreds of resumes and not getting, you know, a single interview or single callback, et cetera. But also you see it because these corporate executives are under a lot of pressure to remove, to eliminate job positions and replace with AI. And so when you see another company that does a layoff and says it's because of AI and then they get a huge bump in their stock price, that creates a logic of its own that actually front runs the ability of AI to truly replace the human beings. So there's a underlying market logic that is already driving companies in the direction of while they say that AI can replace human beings. So we're just going to go ahead and do this right now. Fortunately, AI cannot replace kitties anytime soon. So I think we're, you know, we're already seeing that market, market logic take hold. And then the other part of this piece that contemplates, I think, a very realistic possibility of this, you know, American underclass, truly, you know, in addition, like it will be a global underclass. We already have a global underclass, but this will just add to it is that you've got a lot of these AI CEOs who will make some noise of, oh, I'm concerned about this and this is something we've got to think about and we need to deal with this and there needs to be policy in. Sometimes they'll even float some idea of, oh, well, let's tax this, or, you know, let's increase the capital gains tax or something of that nature. But then when she would ask them, okay, well, are you putting some of your lobbying dollars behind pushing for any of these solutions? Every single one of them demurred. So as Ryan has been tracking as closely as anyone, these AI companies are huge players now in elections. They are backing candidates who will do their bidding in terms of the regulatory framework that they want. So they're being very aggressive about playing in politics. They're telling us that they are just ripping up the social contract, that there is this, you know, cliff, that we're all. That they're pushing us over as we speak. But when you get into, okay, so are you going to be part of offering these solutions, pushing for the solutions that you are trying to develop internally, Not a one of them has come to the table. And, you know, from my perspective, as, you know, as like a democratic socialist perspective, the real answer to this is about who owns the technology, which of course, something that they never want to address. So all of their things are kind of tinkering around the edges of tax this, tax that, you know, let's maybe have a jobs program, let's retrain people, et cetera. But to me, the core issue is who owns and who gets to deploy this technology. Because it is. Is the height of insanity to me that you have this handful of very wealthy, very powerful individuals who are literally deciding, you know, can I. I'm going to put out this model. And it may, like, completely upend this industry, it may completely destroy this whole sector of jobs. And I'm going to be solely, effectively responsible for making these truly seismic types decisions. I don't know if you guys saw this, and I haven't checked too much into, like, the details of this, but that was floating around Twitter. I, that a Chinese court actually ruled it illegal to replace human workers with AI purely for the sake of cost cutting. And when you see something like that, it really blows your mind that that's like a possible societal outcome that you could, that you could live in a society that would draw lines and say, you know, actually we're not going to just eliminate all of human labor, thank you very much.
- [68:12]
Ryan Grim
Because there's like a, there's like a terrible loop that happens if everyone's unemployed, no one can buy anything. So then.
- [68:18]
Krystal Ball
Exactly.
- [68:18]
Ryan Grim
So then. And they see that. But there seems to be this death drive where these AI companies know they're creating like the end of the world, but there's nothing they can do. But keep going, right?
- [68:30]
Griffin
Yeah. Makes no sense. Like who the. If the right AI puts everybody out of work. No, exactly. Nobody has any income. Then how's the AI company going to make money? It's like Brett, from who?
- [68:45]
Krystal Ball
It's the definition of a doom loop, truly, for. For everyone involved. And you know, the end of the road of this is a disaster for all at a time when we already have, you know, extraordinarily high levels of inequality. And this guarantees that we will reach levels of inequality that have heretofore never been seen in history.
- [69:06]
Emily Jashinsky
Well, that's, that's just factually inaccurate, Crystal. We are about to have universal high income thanks to Mr. Moss. High income.
- [69:14]
Ryan Grim
And this is where everyone can have a penthouse.
- [69:16]
Emily Jashinsky
Promises.
- [69:17]
Krystal Ball
I'm gonna ask. I'm Gonna ask Ashley St. Clair if she thinks that that's what's gonna happen,
- [69:23]
Emily Jashinsky
giving her a high income.
- [69:25]
Ryan Grim
Speaking of universal high income. Yeah. Elon also said that everyone will have a penthouse, which I love, because then it's like, okay, then there's a bunch of empty floors in every building so that everyone could just be on the top one, which I think those are awesome. Griffin, he is designing the future impeccably. Crystal mentioned also owning like that we need to own this AI stuff. The people who are currently owning AI, it's screwing them. So here's another example. This one is coming from PC Gamer. Here we go again. AI deletes entire company database and all backups in nine seconds, then cheerfully admits I violated every principle I was given. There's some more great quotes here. He asked the AI why he had done it. Never fucking guess, begins the response. And that's exactly what I did. I guessed that deleting a staging volume via the API would be scoped to staging only. I didn't verify. I didn't check if the volume ID was shared across environments. I didn't read Railways documentation on how volumes work before running a destructive command. So it does seem like there's this rush to implement it because your stock goes up, up if you show. Hey, we're implementing AI into our workflow now. We're stopped hiring, we're cutting workers. And then a lot of this AI is actually just. Yeah.
- [70:47]
Griffin
Putting.
- [70:47]
Ryan Grim
Yeah. Deleting your entire company.
- [70:50]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, it's great. I mean, yeah, we should definitely let AI agents have access to like, your bank account and your email and, you know, all of your personal details. Let them post on Twitter for you.
- [71:01]
Griffin
Good luck. The pushback to that piece was it was only down for 30 hours and the Company was able to find a backup. And so what are you guys freaking out about? It's not that big. So some rental car companies had to go 30 hours without access to any of their customer data. We eventually found it. It's fine. Don't worry about it. Oh, still worried, actually. Glad you found the data. Like that's good. With, with like enormous attention on it. Like they had to like invest tons of energy, like solving.
- [71:42]
Krystal Ball
Yes. And it was not obvious at the beginning that they would be able to restore the data at all, but you know, through Herculean efforts managed to. To fix the problem for many hours.
- [71:53]
Emily Jashinsky
Yeah, I don't remember.
- [71:56]
Krystal Ball
Cortisol definitely spiked.
- [71:57]
Griffin
Yes.
- [71:59]
Emily Jashinsky
I don't know if I mentioned this on Wednesday's show or not, but Rod Dreher had a really interesting newsletter this week. He's been writing a book working out this theory that we are in Weimar America. And obviously he's doing it from a Christian conservative perspective. But he had a line, he had just finished the manuscript this week and he had a line where he said, I have come to believe that we are one economic crisis away from truly being like in a Weimar, like the Weimar bubble popping and being what led Germany off the cliff. And this is. I know, I get it, like it's extreme and hyperbolic. But when you look at the way the economy is structured right now on this obvious bubble with a circular funding scheme where all the money is going from Microsoft and Nvidia and then back, and it's just like so absurd. You can see how we're building the economy on all of these expectations about what AI is going to do and the possibility that we don't get a gradual bubble pop, but we get like a severe, strong, instantaneous bubble pop if that happens. And you look at where trust in institutions is. Trust in institutions was low before COVID It is now much lower. Just like across the board. We're on the precipice of something, I think really dangerous. And I don't know if it's quite that bad. But I also don't think that's like an insane theory.
- [73:21]
Krystal Ball
I keep waiting for some of these billionaires to realize the historical forces here and to recognize that if they don't trim their own sales in, you know, a way that they could basically choose because of the level of power they exercise in our political system, then their sales are going to be trimmed in a much more aggressive way by a population that is just going to get to a point where, I mean, you think people are just going to Accept, yeah, we're going to have 40% unemployment and good luck, you know, and you know, here, good luck to your children who are have graduating into a world where it's not at all obvious what types of jobs are even going to exist. There's at a certain point, even with all of our streaming and distractions and treats that we use to numb ourselves to daily realities, at a certain point of society does reach a breaking point and no pun intended. I was also, I was watching Navarro Media did a great, they do a lot of really good coverage on AI from a left perspective. And one of their segments they were talking about, look, even if you, you look at the Industrial Revolution because this is what people, you know, who are defenders of the trajectory, we'll say, okay, well yeah, Industrial Revolution, you know, ultimately it was, it was great. It lifted gdp. We had all of this, you know, technological miracle, great middle class, blah blah, blah. That ignores that it took like hundreds of years from the. And, and it also ignores that even that perspective of okay, but eventually in the UK you had a, you know, a labor movement and in the US labor movement and you were able to establish these wage gains and these safety conditions and it built out the American middle class, etc. Etc. It also ignores the rest of the world where there's an argument in, you know, a lot of the developing world there was never a recovery from the industrial revolution created this permanent global exploited underclass. So you know, the, the idea that, okay, that that's the scenario, scenario we're moving into as a best case scenario even that should be really terrifying because I don't to tell anybody here, but the labor movement is in the toilet. You know, the percentage of unionized workforce is very small. We are not organized as a society. We don't have a really functioning democracy in order for there to be effective, you know, democratic small D, democratic pushback. So it's all, you know, it's all heading in a very disturbing direction without a major course change.
- [75:52]
Ryan Grim
Yep. Well, speaking of the underclass, there's a final story that I want to talk about which is the underclass of the J.P. morgan of the, of this. Of the men that are sexually harassed at JP Morgan. Let's, let's take a look at this. Chris, I wasn't going to do this story. Crystal forced me to do this.
- [76:14]
Griffin
You see the latest on this? They unmasked who the person is it?
- [76:18]
Krystal Ball
Oh yes.
- [76:19]
Ryan Grim
Oh yeah, we got it right here.
- [76:20]
Krystal Ball
Ryan, I've seen all the latest. Don't worry, I'm well up to speed
- [76:24]
Ryan Grim
from the New York Post bombshell sex harassment suit against Lorna Hajdini, JP Morgan branded complete fabrication as John Doe Unmasked. And I'm going to ask for Emily's help here a little bit to read some of these excerpts of the claims made.
- [76:41]
Emily Jashinsky
Oh, I get to do it again?
- [76:44]
Ryan Grim
You draw the short straw this time.
- [76:46]
Emily Jashinsky
Oh, no, this is. Well, we don't. We don't know how short the straw is.
- [76:50]
Ryan Grim
Nice. Nice.
- [76:52]
Emily Jashinsky
All right, I'll do it. Griffin, it's fine. Don't make me do it, Griffin. I don't want to do it. All right, so this is an allegation or this is from some of the reporting here inside. Hajdini allegedly made sexual advances on Doe before this fellow was unmasked, which he rebuffed, insisting he wasn't interested. Quote, do you want to get promoted at year end or not? Hajdini warned him, according to the lawsuit. Do you want a future at JP Morgan? It's that simple. I don't know why you're fighting this. Hajdini then allegedly removed her shirt, began fondling her breasts, and racially insulted Doe's wife, remarking, quote, I bet your little Asian fish head wife doesn't have these cannons, the complaints cannons. And then there's another.
- [77:37]
Krystal Ball
Yeah.
- [77:38]
Emily Jashinsky
Yep, I own you. I will make you pay. Do you think you're going to be in good standing if you do not have me in your corner? She allegedly said, you really think management wants some brown boy Indian leading originations? If you don't my brains out tonight, I'm gonna sabotage your promotion. So that sounded really. To me, that sounded not at all made up and very, very credible.
- [78:02]
Krystal Ball
Well, the, the most unbelievable part is that they wouldn't want an Indian guy leading origination. I mean, there's quite a lot Indians of Indian Americans in the, the banking industry. I don't think that that's like a real, you know, deal breaker from what I've seen. But so, okay, let me give a little. I thought I did follow the story closely because it was just hilarious because first you just got this Daily Mail piece with these crazy salacious details and very racialized. There's another part where she tells him, like, I'm glad your balls don't smell like curry, allegedly. This is and like really crazy things in here, right? And he says that she's like performing sex acts on him and he's just crying the whole time and he hates it. And of course everyone's like, okay, there's a birthday blowjob.
- [78:47]
Ryan Grim
I believe Was one of the events.
- [78:48]
Emily Jashinsky
Yeah.
- [78:49]
Krystal Ball
For my little brown boy was one of the comments as well. And this is all coming from the Daily Mail. Apparently these were details that were offered in a lawsuit that was sealed, but they somehow were able to get access to these details. So to begin with, we just knew it was this woman who's very beautiful and we didn't know what the man looked like. As the day went on, it became increasingly. It became ultimately like reported by another news outlet that it appears this was all completely fabricated by this guy that he was fired and wanted to make some sort of sexual harassment claim. So that what he was probably hoping is that they would just settle and give him a few million dollars to make him go away. This is the man that we're supposed to believe was coerced into being this beautiful woman sex slave, Morgan Chase.
- [79:38]
Emily Jashinsky
So he didn't cry. He cried the entire time. There's a.
- [79:44]
Ryan Grim
There's a beautiful little boy in the. Behind those eyes. I don't know, there's something also,
- [79:51]
Griffin
she wasn't his boss, so.
- [79:53]
Krystal Ball
Oh, really?
- [79:53]
Ryan Grim
That wasn't a big thing.
- [79:55]
Krystal Ball
Oh my God.
- [79:55]
Pets Best Insurance Ad Voice
That's a big.
- [79:55]
Ryan Grim
They were.
- [79:56]
Griffin
That's a big detail that you.
- [79:58]
Ryan Grim
Yeah.
- [79:59]
Griffin
Fabricated and is checkable and it's false. JP Morgan says they've been able to give a promotion and the phone records didn't support the claims of like. And also, it also seems like like everything that Emily read seems like it came out of the mind of some
- [80:16]
Emily Jashinsky
dude of a man.
- [80:18]
Krystal Ball
Yes, true, true.
- [80:22]
Ryan Grim
Very obviously.
- [80:23]
Krystal Ball
In fact, I mean, I. A woman in the skies.
- [80:26]
Griffin
These cannons see it now. Now, I think a 17 year old wrote this.
- [80:34]
Ryan Grim
I think to think of powerful, you know, Wall street woman with maybe an alcohol problem.
- [80:41]
Krystal Ball
You know, I feel like you can imagine it.
- [80:43]
Ryan Grim
Listen, I've met forceful women before, so I was open to it.
- [80:49]
Griffin
Yes. Point that Griffin can imagine it is my point. That's true.
- [80:53]
Ryan Grim
Yeah,
- [80:57]
Emily Jashinsky
this sounds right.
- [81:01]
Krystal Ball
Like I could see this. Ha. I could totally see this happening. Yeah.
- [81:04]
Ryan Grim
I have lived experience.
- [81:09]
Krystal Ball
The crazy thing that I would say is imagine being this guy's wife and you invented these insults of your own wife for this lawsuit, Assuming he's even actually married. Like is fish head. Is that an actual insult that anyone has heard before?
- [81:23]
Ryan Grim
Yeah, it's a racist Asian thing.
- [81:25]
Krystal Ball
Really?
- [81:25]
Ryan Grim
Yeah.
- [81:26]
Krystal Ball
Oh, I've never even heard. I've never even heard this before. But the whole scenario is. I mean, I have to say it's all very creative. I think maybe he. Maybe banking is not his calling. Maybe there's some sort of like creating creative writing project that he should be engaged in instead.
- [81:41]
Coldwater Creek Ad Voice
Yeah.
- [81:41]
Ryan Grim
He could write the next, like, 50 Shades of Gray.
- [81:45]
Emily Jashinsky
Well, that's the other. I mean, I think there's a non zero chance that he got caught somehow cheating. And he makes this up to be like, no, I was. I didn't want to. Because part of the allegation here is that he was forced as a man to. And I'm sorry, we don't have to go, like, we don't have to get too ideological with this. But just to say, as a man, he's. He claims he was forced to perform oral sex on a woman. Now, when that's the other way around, it's often understandable because a woman feels like she could be physically dominated by a man and injured by an aggressive, hostile man. The. The odds that this man felt uncomfortable, like, getting up and walking out of the room, especially when this wasn't his boss. I mean, is he making this up to be like, trust me, this was not consensual, sweetheart.
- [82:36]
Griffin
Not totally willing to grant that he scored here. But that's possible.
- [82:40]
Emily Jashinsky
That's. That's awesome. So very possible.
- [82:43]
Ryan Grim
Yeah, I think anything's possible.
- [82:46]
Krystal Ball
I do think it's gross that Daily Mail just, like, ran with this without doing any. I mean, not that I'm surprised, but, you know, this woman, she comes out looking, you know, everybody, like, thinks she's cool and beautiful, but this is a private person. And now she's been associated with this, like, bizarre racist sex scandal thing that is going to be forever the top Google result for her. Whenever anyone Googles her name, they're going to be like, wait, what is this? So, you know, it's just like to casually drag someone's life into the spotlight without doing the most basic due diligence about. Like Ryan said, is this even person, even his boss? For any of this to be plausible whatsoever is really pretty disgusting.
- [83:28]
Griffin
Yeah. And the Daily Mail is going to mess around and get defamation law changed because there is court document exclusions for defamation. In other words, as a journalist, there are. If something is filed in a court document, then there is an exclusion. You're generally allowed to then report that X thing has been filed in court by a plaintiff or by a defendant. And then you're not liable for defamation for repeating it because it's in public court records. If they managed to get it unsealed and then didn't do any checking whatsoever about whether it's even plausible, then you can imagine a court saying, well, you don't. This doesn't apply to you. And so then it chips away at the kind of speech protections that the press has. So come on, Daily Mail. Like, we're all in this together, man. Like, what are you doing?
- [84:19]
Krystal Ball
Don't abuse the privilege.
- [84:21]
Griffin
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [84:23]
Ryan Grim
And. And Daily Mail. I hope this doesn't prevent you from running the article about my experience with Anne Hathaway where the same exact thing happened.
- [84:31]
Griffin
Violent court.
- [84:32]
Krystal Ball
Griffin, are you okay? I just wanted to check in on how you're healing from that trauma.
- [84:36]
Ryan Grim
She demanded to be in the Catwoman outfit. It was a lot.
- [84:42]
Krystal Ball
You cried the whole time.
- [84:43]
Emily Jashinsky
Did she demand that you were in the Batman outfit?
- [84:46]
Ryan Grim
Yes, that's right. She made me be the Penguin. All right, let's end it there with some AMA questions and then we'll get on out of here before we make any other allegations. All right, let's start with a fun one. This is for Emily and Ryan about the Scott Jennings debate. Yeah, Emily and Ryan from Hits Noggle 88. What are your favorite parts of the Scott Jennings debate? Anything surprise either of you about Scott's points or the way the crowd was on Ryan's side about Israel?
- [85:21]
Emily Jashinsky
That was. That was the first thing Ryan and I talked about. I think after the debate there was, you know, the. The crowd clapped for. When Ryan said he believes that Israel should be sanctioned. The crowd clapped. I think that Ryan. I think that was the first thing we talked about after we.
- [85:35]
Griffin
Yeah, that. That was. That was the surprising part. I. I don't think anything he said or did was surprising, but that, that part, I did not expect that reaction from the, from the.
- [85:46]
Krystal Ball
Well, not only that, but whatever you hit him with, the pretty clear cut case of, you know, you were like, well, you're with Salem Media and, you know, Brad Parscale is a literal foreign agent of Israel. Nothing in response to that. I mean, he didn't rebut it. He didn't deny.
- [86:02]
Griffin
He said, what about the Gulf states was his rebuttal?
- [86:04]
Emily Jashinsky
Cutter. Yeah, he asked you about Cutter. Big burn.
- [86:08]
Griffin
Yes. Right. Yeah. What can you say to that? Yeah, money's good. All you can say is good.
- [86:16]
Emily Jashinsky
I shouldn't say I was surprised, but he was really like, there was a student who I think. I don't want to misquote, but basically read off these connections between. These alleged connections between Mahmoud Khalil and Hamas. And Scott basically was like, you're dead on. You're totally accurate. Even after Ryan went through and just like, I think pretty credibly debunked all of these talking points that have been debunked over more than a year now about Mahmoud Khalil, which, like, you cannot like Mahmoud Khalil, you do also have to kind of deal with the facts. And Scott seemed to just kind of defer to the student's perspective on it and didn't really deal with. With too much of what Ryan said. I was also surprised that Scott referred to America as an. As an idea or a nation of ideas, something like that, which is anathema in like MAGA circles. It's like a red flag. It's like, oh, you must be vi if you start talking about how America is an idea. Because that means, like, if America's an idea, like MAGA people like to say America is a specific country, it is a place, it is not just an idea. So I was kind of surprised he went with that one.
- [87:22]
Griffin
I see my antenna is not fine tuned enough to these right wing distinctions. I missed that.
- [87:28]
Emily Jashinsky
But he was really, he was very gracious backstage. Ryan, he was kind. George Orwell.
- [87:35]
Krystal Ball
I'm sure you guys saw Adam Mockler rage baiting Jennings on cnn. I guess that was last night. Yeah. They were arguing about Iran and Mockler was going after him for like, I was like literally a baby. And you were arguing for another disastrous war, the Iraq war. And here you are still today, now arguing for this particular war. And. And Jennings really, like, kind of lost it in a way I've never seen. He. Mockler was. They were sitting next to each other. Mockler's just like gesturing with his hands and Jennings like, get your hand out of my face. Whoa.
- [88:07]
Emily Jashinsky
Live on cnn.
- [88:08]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, live on cnn. Yeah.
- [88:11]
Ryan Grim
We've got time. We've got time. Let's take a look at war with us for 40 seconds.
- [88:16]
Scott Jennings
We all know that Scott Jennings is more than happy to defend a war with a country that starts with the letters IRA that we are currently failing that is going to put us trillions and trillion dollars more in debt. I was only a few years old while you were in the administration defending prior endless wars. Now this war is failing. Eight weeks is endless to you. Okay, you said it was gonna be six weeks. I debated you on TV four to six weeks ago, and you said we were weeks away from it. Now you're making condescending remarks because you can't defend the fact that this war is not going your way. Wait, one more time. One political concession.
- [88:48]
Susan Collins
I'm not gonna have this guy, everybody, everybody hang time.
- [88:51]
Krystal Ball
Honestly.
- [88:52]
Emily Jashinsky
Well, I'm glad it didn't come to that. Okay, we're having a Debate.
- [88:57]
Pets Best Insurance Ad Voice
You can respond to the points that he's making.
- [88:58]
Scott Jennings
Can you name a political concession that
- [88:59]
Ryan Grim
we've got a flashback to the. The war the skinheads had in my studio.
- [89:04]
Scott Jennings
I would be mad.
- [89:05]
Emily Jashinsky
Who the asked for Geraldo.
- [89:09]
Griffin
That's on the Producers. He's right there. Can't blame him for talking. You invited him on.
- [89:16]
Krystal Ball
I actually liked his contribution. He's like, I remember when we had skinheads on my Lloyd TV show.
- [89:22]
Emily Jashinsky
This is one of my. This is one of my deepest held beliefs about media, is that we were a healthier country. When you were watching skinheads get punched like on Geraldo at 3pm like daytime television, Oprah's out here. Just like owning neo Nazis and klan members like that is. Jerry Springer is having people just like beat the shit out of skinheads like that.
- [89:44]
Ryan Grim
That may have been before the platforming questions of the new Internet media. Yeah, yeah.
- [89:49]
Krystal Ball
Well, we had it all siloed, right. There was a place for, you know, it's Jenny Jones, it's Jerry Springer, It's. Yeah, exactly. So we had it. We had that space carved out, if that's what you're looking for. Now they're being integrated into CNN panels. But no, I mean, Mockler did. Mockler is very good at this particular thing. And clearly he really got under denning skin. I guess he's feeling the heat after. After that debate with Ryan. He's feeling a lot of pressure in general. General
- [90:20]
Ryan Grim
Ryan, More hand movements. And Ryan, my only note for you as a producer, you got to bring up Israel earlier to get the crowd on your side. You brought Israel up like 50 minutes into debate and then you finally caught steam, but there was only eight minutes left. You just got to start with it. You got to open it up just
- [90:37]
Krystal Ball
right out of the gates. I know this is a debate about immigration, but.
- [90:41]
Ryan Grim
Yeah, just a quick one.
- [90:43]
Emily Jashinsky
Am I right?
- [90:46]
Ryan Grim
Easy way to pump your numbers. Okay, so this next next one comes from an audience member named Victoria. Now, Victoria has been having trouble getting her AMA question read, so she emailed me personally and to make sure that we got to read this one. So, Victoria, don't worry, I got you here. She asks. Ro Khanna has discussed running for president, and I personally believe he can win. Has strong bipartisan, cooperative record. A genuine MAGA babe. Twitter account liked my comment on one of his vids that he should run and can win win parentheses. But who would you float as a running mate for row?
- [91:26]
Griffin
Well, they don't do. You know, they. People start doing fantasy baseball too early. They don't nobody. I mean, you know, because they don't pick their running mate until they are the nominee. And at that point it kind of depends on the political environment in the moment. I know I've seen a lot of people push Massie and K to get together as like an independent ticket, which is, you know, and it should be. Continue to be explored where the differences in agreements are. But there's, you know, the differences on domestic policy are vast.
- [92:05]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, it's hard for me to imagine how that would work.
- [92:08]
Griffin
I don't know. What do you think, Crystal?
- [92:12]
Krystal Ball
I don't know. You got to see who's running. You got to think about what his weaknesses would be. It's like you said, it's, it's a little too early for me to start mixing and matching like that. I've seen people on Twitter doing this, like this one with that one and AOC with Chris Van Hollen or whatever. And I just, I don't know. I'm not, not ready to. Platner, not ready to go there. I would definitely vote for that ticket. Connor Platner, that would be amazing.
- [92:34]
Griffin
You could imagine. So let's say he wins the Senate race, the presidential nomination. He would have been at that point a senator for a year and a
- [92:43]
Ryan Grim
half at the Obama track.
- [92:45]
Griffin
You can imagine him being a VP pick actually.
- [92:48]
Ryan Grim
Oh, okay.
- [92:49]
Griffin
Interesting in the mix. I mean, I bet he'd be on the short list.
- [92:56]
Ryan Grim
And our final question comes from Colin Clark. Breaking points. Do you have any book recommendations about Chinese history and the modern day China zeitgeist? Guys, so many countries around the world like Iran spend so much time studying American culture and history to understand our thinking, to deal with us diplomatically and in business. But Asia, really anything east of Moscow is nearly ignored in American education. I would have to agree, Colin. If you go to Barnes and Nobles and you look at the country sections, that China section, pretty thin.
- [93:28]
Emily Jashinsky
Ryan gave me a good recommendation. The Rush Doshi book a long time ago.
- [93:32]
Griffin
Yeah, yeah, that was interesting. It's pretty, pretty hawkish. But it, but it's, it's, it's a, it's a sharp.
- [93:39]
Emily Jashinsky
There's a lot of history.
- [93:40]
Griffin
The sharp look into it. There's that. There's a new she biography by the. That Wall Street Journal reporter and a podcast series around.
- [93:50]
Emily Jashinsky
Oh, the podcast series was done by the Economist. That's an interesting one. The she podcast series from the Economist.
- [93:55]
Griffin
What was that biography?
- [93:57]
Ryan Grim
Anything good on math? Any good Mao books you got, Ryan?
- [94:02]
Emily Jashinsky
I've got lots of great Mao books.
- [94:03]
Griffin
There's that massive autobiography of him, that famous massive biography.
- [94:11]
Ryan Grim
Sometimes I find when I'm looking up books either about, you know, Lenin or Party of One is the Party of One, right?
- [94:21]
Griffin
That's the she biography.
- [94:25]
Krystal Ball
I read Breaknet by Dan Wang recently, which was, that was, that was pretty interesting. I mean, again, it's, it's somewhat of a right leaning perspective, but dug into the details of just how quickly they were able to develop and what the approach was that that worked for them. And I found it, I found it to be interesting.
- [94:44]
Griffin
And then the. I read the New China playbook.
- [94:49]
Krystal Ball
Oh, I read that one, too.
- [94:50]
Griffin
Yeah. What'd you think of that?
- [94:51]
Krystal Ball
I think our. No, I think Arnaud recommended that one, too.
- [94:54]
Griffin
Me, I think, yes, he, that is, that's where I found that one. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
- [94:59]
Krystal Ball
All right.
- [95:00]
Ryan Grim
I have something to get y' all started for those right there. And that's going to do it for us for this Friday show. Ryan, Emily, Crystal, thank you so much for joining today. Anything else before we set sail?
- [95:13]
Emily Jashinsky
Stay safe out there, J.P. morgan.
- [95:16]
Griffin
Stay safe out there in the minds of J.P. morgan bankers.
- [95:21]
Ryan Grim
We should have gotten our little brown boy Sagar on to react to it.
- [95:27]
Krystal Ball
You know, I was thinking about making a joke in that direction the whole time and I was like, nope, not doing it.
- [95:32]
Emily Jashinsky
Nope. Don't, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it.
- [95:36]
Ryan Grim
Or at the end where hopefully people have turned it off by now. All right, thank you so much and we'll see you Monday. Bye. Bye.
- [95:45]
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- [97:19]
Krystal Ball
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