5/21/26: Israel Panics After Flotilla Abuse Video, Ryan Exposes Schumer AI Screwup, Tom Steyer Confronted By Griffin

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar

Episode Date: May 21, 2026
Episode Title: Israel Panics After Flotilla Abuse Video, Ryan Exposes Schumer AI Screwup, Tom Steyer Confronted By Griffin

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into three major stories:

1. The global fallout after Israeli Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir posts videos of himself and colleagues abusing flotilla activists, sparking unprecedented international and Israeli backlash.
2. Ryan Grim exposes a multi-million-dollar Democratic primary campaign error, where pro-Schumer interests poured $9 million into a race due to an “AI screwup” about the “electability” of one candidate.
3. Griffin Davis conducts a hard-hitting interview with California gubernatorial candidate Tom Steyer, pressing him on billionaire politics, influencer campaigns, California policy, and Israel.

The hosts, Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti (with substantial contributions from Ryan Grim and Griffin Davis), maintain their signature anti-establishment, sharp, and critical tone as they pick apart political hypocrisy, media manipulation, and big-money influence.

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Segment 1: Israel Panics After Flotilla Abuse Video

Timestamps: 02:57–15:12

Key Points and Insights

• Itamar Ben-Gvir, Israeli Minister of National Security, posts videos abusing detained flotilla activists in Israeli custody.

  • Videos show Ben-Gvir and colleagues taunting, roughing up, and humiliating detainees, such as forcing a woman to say "I love Israel."
  • The public display of abuse has triggered global condemnation, including from Israeli politicians, European leaders, and even American conservatives like Mike Huckabee.
  • Ben-Gvir, who oversees Israel’s prison system—already under fire for systemic abuses—appears uniquely defiant and proud of his actions.
  • These videos are described as “[Ben-Gvir] glories in the sadistic nature of the treatment” (Ryan Grim, 02:57).

• Systemic prison abuse highlighted:

  • A New York Times exposé and first-person accounts by Western flotilla activists (including a German and an American, both allegedly brutalized—one raped) are mentioned.
  • The flotilla's intent: deliver humanitarian aid to Gaza, with the activists intercepted far from Israeli waters.
  • Despite official statements, most participants dispute that their detention was “in accordance with international law.”

• Backlash in Israel and worldwide:

  • Israel’s Foreign Ministry: “You knowingly caused harm to our state in this disgraceful display... You are not the face of Israel.” (Ryan Grim quoting Israeli Minister, 07:30)
  • U.S. conservatives and European leaders denounce Ben-Gvir; U.S. government’s reaction perceived as muted.
  • Krystal Ball sharply critiques U.S. political funding and influence:

    “This country [Israel] is so dramatically influential that the Kentucky Commonwealth’s 4th district gets $35 million poured into it by three billionaires... to protect the interests of this foreign state.” (Krystal Ball, 08:09)

• On the consequences for the activists:

  • Activists rapidly deported, rather than held for prolonged periods, after intense scrutiny on Ben-Gvir’s actions.
  • Notably, Noah Abishag Schnall, previously brutalized, detained again to cover these events.

Notable Quotes

• Ryan Grim [07:57]: “He always does it. A lot of times he goes into Palestinian prisons and glories in the sadistic nature of the treatment. This time, though, it has really blown back on him.”
• Krystal Ball [08:09]: “How can you not now have to focus entirely on the behavior of this nation, what we are forced to tolerate as citizens of the United States, to see how its dramatic influence basically enables this type of barbarism abroad. Not only enables, pays for, protects at the diplomatic stage. And if you dare question it ... will spend millions to destroy your political career.”

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Segment 2: The Thomas Massie Defeat, BDS Laws, and AI-Driven Political Attacks

Timestamps: 10:36–14:06

Key Points and Insights

• Reflections on the defeat of Thomas Massie (KY-4) after major outside funding:

  • Massie, despite being controversial and iconoclastic, was targeted for his independent stance on Israel.
  • His opponent, Galrin, benefited from heavy outside (often pro-Israel) spending and did not debate or make substantive campaign appearances.
  • AI-generated attack ads, including deepfake-style videos, were used to suggest Massie was aligned with progressive “villains” like AOC and Ilhan Omar.

    “It was like these AI ads. … this like, fake AI CCTV video up to a hotel lobby... If you’re 72 years old … you’re gonna be like, oh, that’s weird. I liked Massie, but I didn’t know he was in a thruffle caught in a hotel room.” (Ryan Grim, 10:36)

• Electoral despair and cynicism:

  • Krystal Ball expresses unprecedented despair at voter manipulation:

  “Honestly… I have never. Until very recently, I was never a blame the voters person. Now I’m like, I mean, what do you do?” (Krystal Ball, 11:22)

  • She points out that such manipulations would not be as effective in a general election: “If he’d have made it to the general, he would have won overwhelmingly. There’s no question about it. But … that’s the system we have.”

Notable Quotes

• Krystal Ball [13:31]: “Yeah, they spent $20 million for shits and gigs. That’s what they did, Jake [Tapper].”
• Krystal Ball [13:38]: “Is that even democracy?”

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Segment 3: Tucker Carlson Confronts Israeli TV

Timestamps: 15:12–21:18

Key Points and Insights

• Tucker Carlson interview makes waves on Israeli Channel 13:
  • Carlson challenges Israeli narratives about the Gaza war, U.S. support, and “democracy.”
  • Tells interviewer:

    “No country ... has boasted more about killing its political opponents than Israel, of course, about its assassination programs.” (Tucker Carlson, 17:01)

  • Explicitly accuses Israel of losing its morality:

    “Israel has definitely lost its morality. There’s no question about that.” (Tucker Carlson, 18:10)

  • Calls Israel “not a democracy in any sense;” millions under control without voting rights.
  • Hosts note the rarity of such candor on Israeli TV:

    “That interview … was explosive... confronting them with basic facts, like that point about democracy. … They don’t even talk about that.” (Krystal Ball, 19:51)

Memorable Quote

• Tucker Carlson [19:05]: “The behavior of the Israeli government in Gaza is disgusting and immoral. And of course, Israel’s not a democracy in any sense. There are millions of people who live under Israeli control who cannot vote.”

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Segment 4: Ryan Grim Exposes Schumer/AI Election Screw-up

Timestamps: 23:39–41:18

Key Points and Insights

• $9 Million Spent on a False Premise:

  • Iowa Democratic primary: Zach Wahls vs. Josh Turek.
  • Schumer-backed Vote Vets and “Majority Dems” superPAC poured $9 million behind Turek, largely because AI (and media) mistakenly claimed he “flipped a Republican district.” This error arose from AI and Wikipedia misreading redistricting changes.
  • Multiple media outlets, donor advisors, and the campaign repeated this falsehood, using it to argue Turek was more “electable.”
  • Grim meticulously retraces how ChatGPT, Wikipedia, and reporting errors fueled the myth.

• Manipulative Campaign Advertising:

  • Vote Vets ads blur lines between Turek’s personal backstory (spina bifida due to father’s military service) and actual military service, allowing the impression that he is a veteran.
  • Grim warns: this “accessory to stolen valor” could backfire if the public believes Turek is a vet and learns otherwise.

• Zach Wahls: The Progressive Alternative

  • Famous since his 2011 speech as the “Iowa two moms” kid; advocates for bipartisan action and lambasts big money corrupting local politicians.

Notable Quotes

• Ryan Grim [28:29]: “So if a few weeks ago you asked ChatGPT about Josh Turek’s 20th house district, here’s what it used to tell you… 12 consecutive years of Republican control before Turek. So that's what ChatGPT would tell you. That’s pretty impressive.”
• Krystal Ball [36:46]: “They basically had an AI error. They didn’t track it all that closely. And people in D.C. and all these other donor advisors were like, oh, let’s just throw… $9 million.”

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Segment 5: Griffin Davis Interviews Tom Steyer

Timestamps: 44:22–59:34

Key Points and Insights

• On Billionaire Politicians:

  • Steyer defends his candidacy despite billionaire skepticism, emphasizing his self-made status and philanthropy.
  • “I didn't inherit a penny. I started a business, ran it for 27 years, walked away from billions because I wanted to give back ... My wife and I have said we’re going to give our money away while we’re alive to good causes.” (Tom Steyer, 45:05)

• Influencer Campaign Funding and Ethics:

  • Steyer denies paying for endorsements, states he only pays for time, not outcomes.
  • When pressed about the danger of paying influencers (potential for manipulation, dangerous precedent), Steyer insists his campaign is open and reports everything, criticizing rivals for “running from questions” (45:30–46:48).

• California Policy Stances:

  • Steyer positions himself as the only true progressive: supports taxing billionaires, challenges oil/gas/insurance influence, and maintains a long activist record (49:25).
  • On public dissatisfaction with California: attributes problems to corporate influence, not Democratic dominance.

• On Major State Issues:

  • Train to Nowhere: Admits “building things physically in this state” is difficult, details missteps in high-speed rail project start (52:11–53:21).
  • Housing Crisis: Proposes closing a $20 billion corporate tax loophole and channeling those funds to local governments to facilitate housing (57:23).
  • Hollywood’s Decline: Argues for tax credits and regulatory reform to maintain California’s centrality in entertainment (58:23).
  • Israel/Genocide Debate:
    • Refuses to call Israeli campaign in Gaza a "genocide"—labels it “war crimes,” and a “crime against humanity,” but insists on the two-state solution as paramount (53:34–55:30).
    • “I'm completely on the side of condemning what the Netanyahu regime is doing. I'm trying to preserve the possibility of still having a two state solution." (Steyer, 55:09)
    • Admits genocide scholars are “very mixed” on the term; Griffin pushes that for many Democrats, this is a “moral litmus test.”

• Views on Political Competition:

  • Dismisses MAGA threats; claims the real struggle is against corporations and entrenched interests.

Memorable Quotes

• Tom Steyer [45:05]: “So many [billionaires] seem like such selfish people, so self absorbed, so entitled, so insensitive. But let me say this. I didn’t inherit a penny...”
• Tom Steyer [54:43]: “I have asked people who are expert, international experts, and they’re very mixed on this [genocide].”
• Tom Steyer [58:23]: “Hollywood is by far the greatest collection of film and entertainment talent... We can’t lose this ... Every tax credit brings back a dollar and 14 cents to the state of California.”

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Highlight Reel

• Ben-Gvir’s self-inflicted international scandal: Rare broad condemnation of Israeli mistreatment of activists—amplified by global news cycles and social media virality.
• Ryan Grim’s “AI error” exposé: A demonstration of how even the best-funded, most “data-driven” political machines can make fundamental errors when outsourcing factual research to AI- and Wikipedia-based tools.
• Steyer’s interview: Sharply illustrates the challenge of populist politics for billionaires—and how even the best intentions and transparency are met with skepticism in today’s media environment.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• “[Ben-Gvir] glories in the sadistic nature of the treatment. This time, though, it has really blown back on him.” — Ryan Grim [02:57]
• “This country is so dramatically influential… with our tax dollars… dragging us… into this war in Iran.” — Krystal Ball [08:09]
• “It was like these AI ads… If you’re 72 years old … you’re gonna be like, oh, that’s weird. I liked Massie, but I didn’t know he was in a thruffle.” — Ryan Grim [10:36]
• “Is that even democracy?” — Krystal Ball [13:38]
• “No country… has boasted more about killing its political opponents than Israel, of course, about its assassination programs.” — Tucker Carlson [17:01]
• “He’s not a veteran. But these Vote Vets ads, that’s… accessory to stolen valor.” — Ryan Grim [36:10]
• “I have asked people who are expert, international experts, and they’re very mixed on this [genocide].” — Tom Steyer [54:43]

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Main Takeaways

• Breaking Points pulls no punches exposing both domestic and global political hypocrisy—whether it’s the brutality of Israeli policy, the toxic fusion of money and technology in American campaigns, or the moral complexity of billionaire-led populism.
• Media narratives and AI-driven research are deeply flawed and susceptible to error; unchecked reliance on such methods can warp multi-million-dollar campaigns.
• California’s future, national progressive politics, and the U.S. role in the Middle East are at a crossroads, with each segment raising important questions about power, money, accountability, and morality.

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For listeners: This episode is unafraid to challenge sacred cows, spotlighting both the global and local consequences of unaccountable power—whether in Jerusalem, Washington, or Sacramento.

Transcript

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[Griffin Davis]

All?

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[Krystal Ball]

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[Ryan Grim]

so the Israeli establishment has found the guy who is responsible for all of this. And his name is Itamar Abengavir, the Minister of National Security in the State of Israel. And he's under fire across the board in the country because of a video or multiple videos that he himself posted to social media showing himself and his colleagues abusing hundreds of flotilla activists that have been detained in Israel. So there you see them throwing a young woman down on the ground. There's a smiling Ben gvir, he's waving the Israeli flag as he has these detainees hunched over. They're roughing them up, they're dragging them around. They start singing the Israeli national anthem to them. While singing here, he's saying, you know, basically you need to say I love Israel to this, to this detained protester. He did something. What's curious in here that he's dragging, they're dragging more around. What's curious is that he did a version of this on video. The last time flotilla activists came through, I remember it was not quite as, I guess it wasn't as long. It was just a few seconds of him kind of being impusing prisons too. He always does it. A lot of times he goes into Palestinian prisons and glories in the sadistic nature of the treatment. This time though, it has really blown back on him and you're getting condemnations from across the world and even across the Israeli spectrum saying that this is not. Also, by the way, this is something you should know as we talk about this. Ben GVIR is the head of the prison system. Prison system has been in the news globally lately because of the systemic abuses reported on towards Palestinians by Nicholas Kristof at the New York Times. A couple weeks ago we ran a co written kind of first person piece by two women, a German and an American who had been on the last flotilla. And they described their experience in this prison system. One of them was brutalized on multiple occasions, the other was raped. This is a German and an American. The two countries, two Western countries that are most supportive of this Government. And so let's run through some of the backlash that Itamar Ben Gvir is getting. We put up D2 here. Israeli Minister of Foreign affairs, you knowingly caused harm to our state in this disgraceful display. And not for the first time. You have undone tremendous professional and success. Successful efforts made by so many people, from IDF soldiers to Foreign ministry staff and many others know you are not the face of Israel. I don't even know where to start from that or start with that. Let's just go. Let's go to D3 before we, like, collapse into, like, some psychedelic type of seizure. All right, so as Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu and Foreign Minister Saar have made clear, Itamar Ben GVIR is. His reckless grandstanding is not representative of government policy. I am Israel's top diplomat in the United States at the heart of our most important alliance. Ben Gvir's antics take a sledgehammer to our diplomatic efforts. While Israel's enemies gleefully jump on every unfortunate nonsense to discredit and demonize the provocateurs of the flotilla charade very, very proper were properly detained in accordance with. With international law and will be deported to their home countries. End of story. They were picked up, by the way, many, many, many, many, many, many, many miles from. From Israeli territory, way, way, way out in international waters. So that part is just, you know, not remotely true. And they're just trying to deliver stuff to God that want the other. The other thing. They just let them. They don't have just a bunch of boats. It's not that much stuff on the boats. Just let them deliver the humanitarian aid. Like, it's gonna be okay. You're like a pretty big military. You know, if they sneak in a baseball bat, I think you're gonna be okay. Mike Huckabee even upset and put up D4 here. Mike Huckabee says that Ben Gvir, quote, betrayed the dignity of his nation. This is not who we are in D5. Real quick. European leaders from Belgium to Ireland, Spain, like Italy. So left wing, right wing, center, Canada. Everybody but the United States was bothered by Ben Gvir. Well, no, even the U.S. well, Huckabee. I just played Huckabee. Whatever. Yeah, I don't think of Huckabee as American anymore. I mean, it literally didn't click.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, he's actually a United States.

[Ryan Grim]

He's a spokesperson for the Israeli government.

[Krystal Ball]

Once upon a time, people actually did think that. Yeah, man. I mean, look, I have seen criticism before. Why so much Israel coverage? Here's my thing, I haven't had a chance. Cause you guys did such a great job yesterday to react to the Thomas Massie thing. How can you not now have to be hyper focused on this country? This country is so dramatically influential that the Kentucky Commonwealth of Kentucky's 4th district gets $35 million poured into it by three, three billionaires, all of whom are acting to protect the interests of this foreign state. So yeah, actually at a certain point, with our tax dollars that are backing it, with the expansionary goals that it has across the region, dragging us or coercing us or joining us, whatever adjective you want to use into this war in Iran. And then now to have multiple states on our books with BDS laws, all of that was known. But then finally here to have Israel as the first, final and most important factor in this Kentucky 4th district race. How can you not now have to focus entirely on the behavior of this nation, what we are forced to tolerate as citizens of the United States, to see how its dramatic influence basically enables this type of barbarism abroad. Not only enables, pays for, protects at the diplomatic stage. And if you dare question it, and if you dare say, hey, there's something wrong with that, their actors here in the United States will spend millions to destroy your political career. This does not also though absolve the President of the United States who has decided to join forces with these two. And so, man, I gotta tell you, I've been sitting in like a form of depression since Massey loss. I didn't even like a lot of the stuff that he stood for. I hated him for so many different things. It drove me crazy. But there's an iconoclastic element to him. He's not, honestly. Yeah, I mean, as a citizen, yes, but yeah, he's not. You know, I disagree with him on so, so many different things, but they're just his, his level of bravery to just kind of stand up and be like, yeah, I don't support this. Actually, I have a well grounded group of principles. And then, you know, to see the cretin who replaced him, Galrin, you know, didn't debate, didn't do anything, didn't debate, nothing. And I think the most depressing element of it, Ryan, is that all those billionaires in conjunction with the President could convince however many of these, you know, boomer Fox News people just be like, yep, all right, he's right.

[Ryan Grim]

It was like these AI ads. That's the other crazy thing. There are all these AI ads that these 70 plus people watched where he's walking hand in Hand with Ilhan Omar and aoc, this, like, fake AI CCTV video up to a hotel lobby.

[Griffin Davis]

I know.

[Ryan Grim]

And then it shows him walking with AOC and Ilhan Omar into a hotel room while they're saying he's engaged in a throuple. Like, we get sort of, like, metaphorically what they're trying to say. We know that it's AI. If you're 72 years old, which is like half of the Kentucky primary electorate, sitting at home watching 50 of those on Fox News, you're gonna be like, oh, that's weird. I liked Massie, but I didn't know he was in a thruffle caught in a hotel room.

[Krystal Ball]

It's disgusting, you know, the way that it has. And it honestly does make me, like, despair. I didn't used to. I've never. Until very recently, I was never a blame the voters person. Now I'm like, I mean, what do you do? What do you do? Now, to be fair, the idea that this would have happened in a general election is bullshit. It was a closed primary. They spent billions of dollars. They basically, you know, this was the hardest. Sorry, millions of dollars. But it's the hardest of the hardcore kind of Republican base. They don't speak for all of us. So, like, let's make that very clear. If he'd have made it to the general, he would have won overwhelmingly. There's no question about it. But, I mean, you do have to say it's like, wow, okay. I mean, look, the rules are what they are. Maybe we attack the rules. That's a fool's errand. I've been around long enough to see every election reform issue crash just gets worse. You're right. It's actually worse. There was all this, like, pipe dream about ranked choice votings. It's nonsense. We all know it. Right? You know, oh, third party. Yeah, that works out real well, doesn't it? And they're stuck with the system that we have. And with that one, I don't know, I really feel despair.

[Ryan Grim]

It's possible that this murder was done so out in the open that it's like a George Floyd moment on the right. Like, I don't think so. You guys sat there and watched them put their knee on Massey for and extinguished life, his political life, and just did it in front of everybody. And maybe it doesn't matter because what did George Floyd do? It brought out a lot of people into the streets, and we actually didn't even get any police reform through Congress.

[Krystal Ball]

And then, you know, to look at the older voters they don't even see it as a scandal. They're like, yeah, good, he screwed over Trump. He worked with the Democrats or whatever. And yeah, for a lot of younger Republicans, I mean, maybe you're right. But let's be honest, in the social media age and all this, people will scroll past something else. Massie is the, I mean, him coming out, making the Tel Aviv joke and driving everybody crazy. I loved it. I loved it. And then it just showed how the still the pro Israel bias in our, you know, Jake Tapper being like, oh, that's not why Massie, like, you're like,

[Ryan Grim]

dude, spend $20 million for fun.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, they spent $20 million for shits and gigs. That's what they did, Jake.

[Ryan Grim]

Barely. Barely.

[Krystal Ball]

I don't know. Yes. That's why I think pairing these two things together, you know, the Ben G. Thing, like this is what it's about. People like, this is like Miriam Adelon and these other people, they wake up every day and they're like, how can we protect this nation? And then they spend their money here in the United States, which I guess is legal in the Kentucky 4th district. And enough Fox News boomers. Because Trump said so, they just come out and they're like, yeah, okay, let's do it. That's the system we have. Is that even democracy?

[Ryan Grim]

I guess, right now, for those concerned about the status of the 400 plus activists, I'm told by a spokesperson for the flotilla that they're all being deported today and it's a result really of, of Ben Gvir's face plan here that it appears that Netanyahu said, like, just get them out of here immediately. Like get them back to their home countries. Because previously they kept them for up to, you know, days and weeks, kind of abusing them in Israeli prisons to try to prevent them from going. One of the authors, one of the co authors of the piece that dropsite Noah Abishag Schnall is being detained and went again for drop site to cover this even after they brutalized her last time. Look forward to, you know, kind of hearing. Well, I actually don't look forward to hearing what was done to her this time. At least it was shorter this time. One of the activists there is the sister of the president of Ireland, Katherine Connolly, friend of the show, as some may recall. Let's roll. The Irish president talking about that.

[Martha Stewart]

And I'm very worried about her and I'm also very concerned about her colleagues on board. I've been very busy today. I've been in the Irish community Centre in Hammersmith, which was wonderful, magnificent display. And then I met with King Charles. I haven't really had a chance to get details in relation to my sister and indeed equally importantly, her colleagues on the boat.

[Ryan Grim]

Meanwhile, Tucker Carlson causing problems over in Israel. What'd you think of your man's interview here?

[Krystal Ball]

I mean, I thought it was great. There was actually even a Haaretz column that came out from an opinion columns and he was like, that was the first time truth about Gaza has been spoken on Israeli television since October 7th. Somehow it was Tucker apparently that decided to do it. Here he was with the liberal host over there on Israeli Channel 13 where he basically stumped them multiple times saying, it's pretty ironic for you to be calling Iran a terror regime when you just murdered thousands of innocent children in Gaza. Let's take a listen.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, I campaigned for Trump, I spoke at the Republican National Convention, I defended Trump for many years on Fox News. What happened was the war with Iran, which I don't believe serves the interests of the United States. I think it's destructive to the United States and to the world, but mostly to the United States. I'm an American, that's what I care about.

[Israeli Interviewer]

Do you generally believe Israel would try to harm you because of your opinion?

[Tucker Carlson]

Do I believe Israel would try to harm me?

[Israeli Interviewer]

Yes.

[Tucker Carlson]

I mean, of course, I don't know. I hope not. I don't want to be harmed.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, but.

[Israeli Interviewer]

So Israel is the most violent states in the world, even more than Iran. Are you serious?

[Tucker Carlson]

No country, and I say this with sadness, but no country has boasted more about killing its political opponents than Israel, of course, about its assassination programs. The Prime Minister of Israel gave a golden pager to the President of the United States. I was there. It is never allowable, period, for any person to kill an innocent. You can't kill a child. The child did nothing wrong. It is always immoral to do that. You can say, well, I did it for this reason, but it doesn't make it right. It's always wrong. And civilized people understand that. That's what civilized people are. That's the definition of a civilized country, a country that.

[Israeli Interviewer]

But it seems like. Right, but it seems like when you speak about Israel as the most violent state in the world, you forget to mention that it is the most attacked state in the world from so many enemies, like any other country in the world. So if you don't put this equation together, it seems like we are doing it for fun or that we lost our morality. This is self defense.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, Israel has definitely lost Its morality. There's no question about that.

[Israeli Interviewer]

The United States would cave in to Iran terror regime that controls now also the Hormuz pathway and the terror ring that it created in the Middle East. Maybe it would be even worse for any citizens in the world, not only in Israel, but also in the United States. And this is exactly what Donald Trump said. He said that United States would have been in danger. So you don't believe Donald Trump.

[Tucker Carlson]

I don't believe Donald Trump. And I also think, as an Israeli, you should pause before using the phrase terror regime. Since you live in a country that just murdered thousands of children in Gaza. We should all pull back a little bit on the rhetoric. I'm not defending Iran.

[Israeli Interviewer]

Do you?

[Tucker Carlson]

But I'm just. I'm just saying even defending it's a little.

[Tom Steyer]

It's a little hard to hear that

[Tucker Carlson]

from an Israeli right now. The government of Iran's behavior is, in some cases disgusting to me and immoral. But the behavior of the Israeli government in Gaza is disgusting and immoral. And of course, Israel's not a democracy in any sense. There are millions of people who live under Israeli control who cannot vote.

[Krystal Ball]

All right, again, like Harat said, you do not hear that, ever, period, in Israel. In fact, you're more likely to hear, like, dancing jigs about why every child in Gaza should be killed and why it makes them happy.

[Ryan Grim]

In a yoga class.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, in a yoga class or something. About why doing yoga in a bomb shelter was the most traumatic experience of their life. That's more like.

[Ryan Grim]

It's like a Free Press essay, right? Yeah, right.

[Krystal Ball]

It was how I discovered nirvana in an Israeli bomb shelter. I've been almost certain to come from the Free Press at some time. That interview, I thought, was explosive, I think, for how simply confronting them with, like, basic facts, like that point about democracy. They don't even talk about that. It's like a hidden thing that manifests as a shadow or a ghost where they call themselves democracy. And if you say it enough times, then they try to make it true. But when you point that out, you're like, there are millions of people under your control. They're like. It's like the compute goes wrong. Same with terror. You know, calling him a terror state. So, anyway, I loved it. I think everybody. The whole thing is available. It's 46 minutes long. If you want to. Maybe we'll link in the description. But he also gave a opening monologue, which is kind of what inspired some of my thoughts about Massey when I was talking about earlier today that I listened to on my and I was like, wow. I mean, it just, it was profound in its sense of like betrayal from Donald Trump and kind of analyses of how we got here. And look, there are many criticisms of, you know, he helped Trump, he campaigned for Trump, supported Trump. I get it. You know, I did too. But the thing is, is that being on the other side of it now, it's like, how do you make sense of something like this? And I do think that, you know, that monologue, these types of confrontations on Israeli television are a path to get there.

[Tom Steyer]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

At least I hope so. At least.

[Ryan Grim]

No, no, no.

[Krystal Ball]

All right, Ryan, you've got, you've got a story for us. Let's hit it, my man.

[Ryan Grim]

I do indeed.

[Public Investing Ad Voice]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures protect

[Breaking Points Host]

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[Ryan Grim]

All right, Sagar, so we got a wild one for you today. Have you ever accidentally spent $9 million and then gone oops? So the Iowa Democratic primary is on June 2, and it pits Zach Walls as a state senator against Josh Turek, who's a state representative. They have pretty much similar politics. One of them, though Josh Turek has said he would support Chuck Schumer as majority or minority leader. Zach Walz has said he would not do so. And so Chuck Schumer has come into Iowa and spent $9 million of Democratic money supporting Josh Turek. He has spent most of it through this organization called Vote Vets. And a bunch of it has also gone through this organization called Majority Dems. Now, Majority Dems, you may have heard of this is kind of a Liz Smith. It's called the Bench. It's this. They're trying to become a party within a party. They're organized by this guy, Seth London, who is what's called a donor advisor. There are so many rich people in this country with so much money that we have created an industry of people that are called donor advisors. These are people who do exactly that. They advise donors on how to spend their money. Seth London loves abundance. He's an abundance guy. And so he has advised a bunch of donors that if they want to create abundance within the Democratic Party, this kind of centrist branded thing, the way they're going to do it is through this organization with Liz Smith called Majority Dems. And so Majority Dems, they're behind Mallory McMorrow, for instance, they're behind Josh Turek. Now, the argument, you can't say, well, we're spending $9 million to support the Schumer backing guy because he backs Schumer. Like, this is Democratic money that people are donating so that he can take back The Senate wouldn't really fly if you said, we're doing this because he likes Schumer. So what they've said is that Josh Tourek is more electable. And let's put up this first element where they explicitly make this argument. So this is Rohan Patel, actually former top executive At Tesla, who is now top guy over at Majority Dems, Rohan Patel says the district Torick holds was held by a Republican who Josh defeated. He expanded on that performance in the next election in a Trump plus 9 district. Zach, meanwhile, has represented one of the bluest districts in the state and has never run against a Republican. The electability argument in this case isn't a close call. All right, so that is a very explicit claim that Rohan Patel is making. The district that Torick holds was held by a Republican who Josh defeated. Rohan Patel was at Tesla. He's a technocrat. These are the smart people. You and I, Sager, are the kind of populist idiots. You know, we're filled with rage, but we don't really understand how the system works. These are the quants. These are the people who have run the numbers and they're going to calculate our way into prosperity and abundance. That's the kind of. That's their entire pitch. Now, the problem here is it's just actually not true. But Rohan isn't the only one who got this wrong. Put up these next elements. At least three different major profiles of Turek said that he flipped a red district. Here's one correction that the Atlantic had to run. This article originally misstated the nature of Torick's previous electoral victories. Here's a correction in NBC News. A previous version of this article mischaracterized Torick's electoral record. He won a state legislative district that was redrawn to be more Republican leaning, but he didn't flip a Republican district. Now, to let you in on how corrections are written, you always try to make the error seem as benign as possible. These are articles talking about how this guy's electable, organized around a central fact that he flipped a Republican district. And then they learned later he did not actually do that. So how do smart people make a mistake like that? This is where this gets really fun. Okay, so if a few weeks ago you asked ChatGPT about Josh Torick's 20th house district, here's what it used to tell you. Go ahead and put this one up. Electoral history, a long term pattern, mostly Republican in recent decades. Ray Sorensen from 2019 to 2023. Before that, Clay Baudelaire, before that, Walt Rogers. So 12 consecutive years of Republican control before Torek. So that's what ChatGPT would tell you. That's pretty impressive.

[Krystal Ball]

Gotta be it.

[Ryan Grim]

That's impressive, man. I flipped the seat. Now, let's say we do our own research, which is, I think what ChatGPT did by going to Wikipedia. So let's pull up Josh Turek's Wikipedia page. Go at the top there. It says, Josh Turek, American politician, wheelchair basketball player. We can talk about that in a bit. Serving as a member of the House of representatives from the 20th district. If you'll notice in there that the 20th district there is purple because I clicked that as ChatGPT, and maybe Rohan and maybe the Atlantic also clicked on. So, all right, let's click on that. Let's take us to the page of the Iowa's 20th House of Representative district. Now, if you look at the bottom there, 2019 to 2023, Ray Sorensen, Republican. 2023 to 2027, Josh Turek. So there you go. He flipped the 20th. The old fight in 20th went from Republican to Democrat under the banner of Josh Turek, whose banner we will now ride to victory and flip Iowa from Republican to Democrat. Because nobody else can win in western Iowa like Josh Turek. But let's keep clicking just for fun.

[Krystal Ball]

Okay?

[Ryan Grim]

So if you click on Ray Sorensen, you'll see that he is anything but defeated. Ray Sorensen now represents the 23rd district of Iowa. So what happened? They redrew districts in Iowa. Not much, actually, but the census came out, they redrew the districts and they renumbered them too. So Durek represents a district that has been voting for Democrats for decades. He represents Council Bluffs.

[Krystal Ball]

Okay.

[Ryan Grim]

This is such a Washington moment. Council Bluffs is in western Iowa. Look it up on the map. It's a suburb of Omaha.

[Krystal Ball]

Right.

[Ryan Grim]

It's urban and suburban. It's not rural western Iowa. It is in western Iowa, but it is really part of the Omaha metro region. So Tork represents a Democratic district. Sorensen, despite the claims that Toorek tossed him out of office, never ran against him. Torick and Sorensen didn't run against each other, and Sorensen is still in office. So I reached out to all the different people involved here because I was like, wait, so what's going on here? We've got three news outlets, plus this top numbers guy over at the super PAC backing Toric, all thinking that Toric flipped a seat. How on earth did that happen? Like, did you just screw it up? Did you or did somebody lie to you? So that's what I was curious about. Did somebody lie to you? And how does. Why is Turek not out here correcting the record? So got a statement from Liz Smith's organization, the bench. They said Rohan misspoke here and acted on his own. No one fed him the stat. Our decision to support Josh is based on his being the best candidate in the race and the only one who can take on Ashley Hinson in the fall. So Rohan just misspoke. Okay, how do you, like. What?

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, how'd you do that?

[Ryan Grim]

So where'd you get this? Where'd you get this stat? How did the Atlantic misspeak? You know, how did NBC News misspeak? How did local npr, which also did it. How did they. How did they misspeak? Wild. So, anyway, the entire premise of his electability argument is based on him flipping the seat, which it turns out he did not flip. Now, what they will also say is that Council Bluffs, this. This kind of area voted for Trump, yet he held on. He won by, like, six votes. House district, there's not many people voting. You're like, oh, that's cool. He's a Democrat who won at the local level while Trump won at the national level. That means he's probably electable. That's cool. That would be usually a decent argument. The problem is that is the pattern that has held in Council Bluffs since lbj. It's just, you know, how there are these. These regions, they're trending away from that, but there are these regions that split their ticket, and Council Bluffs is one of them. Council Bluffs votes for Sims. Nixon votes for Democrats at the local level and votes for Republicans at the presidential level. It's just what they did. And Turek happened to be wrapped into that. Now it gets us to the part about his rationale for the candidacy. So he was born with spina bifida, and that is in his early ads, his bio ads. And he says that because his father was a veteran in Vietnam, that exposure to Agent Orange produced the spina bifida may be true, and that as a result, he's going to fight for veterans. In a lot of the more recent ads, you. That part of the bio is fading and it starts blending with this veteran because the group that is supporting him is called Vote Vets. It starts to look like he's a vet. Now, anybody who's followed it very closely knows that that's not the case. But the more recent ads starting to blur it just a little bit. I'm curious for your take on this. So let's roll one of these ads that has enormous amounts of spending behind it from Vote Vets.

[Tom Steyer]

My dog knows that I start early. I enlisted out of high school. I rose to the rank of colonel. I pushed myself. Born with spina bifida. Josh Turek has done that his whole life. Now, Josh is running for Senate to end the corruption in Washington. He'll ban Congress from trading stocks, hold Donald Trump accountable for abusing his power, and he's not taking a dime in corporate PAC money. Josh Turek's a fighter. He's who Iowa needs.

[Krystal Ball]

Vogue Vets is responsible for the content of this ad. Yeah, that's right on the line there, Ryan, where I'm like, wait, what? It doesn't make it 100% clear. If I had watched that cold without knowing a little bit of what you're talking about, I would have thought, oh, he must have gotten injured in combat or something like that.

[Ryan Grim]

Let's watch the transition again. So here's the transition from this colonel who. We get the bio of the colonel, but by the way, he never mentions he was deployed, which is kind of interesting. So we get this bio of the colonel. Why he's not running. Josh is running. We get the bio of the colonel. So let's just do the transition again. Play that one more time.

[Tom Steyer]

I enlisted out of high school. I rose to the rank of colonel. I pushed myself. Born with spina bifida, Josh Turek has done that his whole life. Now Josh is running for Senate to end the corruption in Washington.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, it's a little like, what? Yeah. If you're just watching it, like, at home, you kind of come away with. Yeah. And then at the end, he says he doesn't take corporate PAC money in an ad paid for by Vote Vets, a super PAC funded by Chuck Schumer and his major donors. If we can put up the next element. This was one that somebody flagged for me, too. Josh Turek has spent his life in the toughest battles.

[Krystal Ball]

Ah, I see.

[Ryan Grim]

Now, he's been very clear that he's had spinal bifida since he was a child. He's never said he was a veteran. But these Vote Fetz ads, like, that's. That's a little like.

[Krystal Ball]

Right. That's on the line for.

[Ryan Grim]

That's pushing. And the reason this could be risky is if you poll Iowa voters and you find that, like, a significant chunk believe that he's a veteran, Republicans then can come at him and say, you thought that he was a veteran. He's not now. He never said he was. But look at these ads. You believed it. You were fooled. And so it creeps into this, like, accessory to stolen valor type situation that Republicans could potentially hammer him.

[Krystal Ball]

Right. And I just think zooming out. Your point is they used an AI error. They spent 9 million bucks $9 million.

[Ryan Grim]

That's other people's money.

[Krystal Ball]

They basically had an AI error. They didn't track it all that closely. And people in D.C. and all these other donor advisors was like, oh, let's just throw.

[Ryan Grim]

He's from western Iowa, so actually he's from Omaha. Vote vets comment. They say, quote, we are proud to support Josh Turek because he knows firsthand the generational costs of war. He was born with spina bifida due to his dad's military Service and had 21 surgeries before age 12, which we've said in our advertising. True. It's true. Josh will be a strong advocate for veterans and military families, which Congress needs to fight back against the Trump administration's devastating cuts to va. He has talked a lot about the va. Absolutely. Josh has been fighting his whole life. And with Donald Trump in the White House, Josh will be exactly the kind of senator Iowa needs. So, anyway, so that's their take. Let's finish with the guy that they're going against. So Zach Walls, he became this viral sensation in, like, 2011. You might remember this when he stood up in the Iowa legislature and talked about his two moms.

[Krystal Ball]

Oh, that guy.

[Ryan Grim]

He's that guy.

[Krystal Ball]

He's back. Yeah, I remember him.

[Ryan Grim]

Now here we are, 15.

[Krystal Ball]

He was like 20 years old.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, he was 20. Yeah, he was a child.

[Krystal Ball]

We were the same age. That's why I remember this. He and I were the same age.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, it was a great speech. Yeah, it was moving. So, anyway, so here's Zach Walls now, a state senator, talking about Hinson. Who's gonna be the Republican opponent?

[Zach Wahls]

This one company From Utah bought 15 communities across the state, three of them in my Senate district, two in Johnson county, and then one in Cedar county, the more rural part of my district. And as their state senator, I took it upon myself to go knock doors in my communities to hear from my constituents, my people, about what was going on. And the stories I heard were heartbreaking. I met a woman named Candy. Candy was a widow, and her late husband had saved up, bought her this beautiful double wide trailer, and she had a place to call her home. And she was worried about her own home. She was terrified about what would happen to her neighbors. And I, you know, I was so angry about what I was hearing that I was able to take these stories. And I went to my Republican colleagues, we brought together a bipartisan group, we hammered out a bill that we could all support. And as a freshman, I got that bill with the help of people like Candy and her neighbors. Who came to the State House to fight for that bill. We got it through the Senate 48 to 0. Everyone assumed this was a done deal. And then two days later, I get a text message asking me to come over to the. To the House side for a closed door meeting about my bill. And I remember it like it was yesterday. Walking in, first person I see is the lobbyist representing these big companies. And the second person I see is a state representative who's holding my bill, shaking her head. That state representative is now a member of Congress, and she's my Republican opponent in November, Ashley Hinson. And I was in the room, and I watched as Ashley Hinson killed my bipartisan bill as a favor to that lobbyist. And after this was over, I looked up how much money this lobbyist had bundled for her reelection campaign. You want to guess how much it was?

[Krystal Ball]

50 grand.

[Zach Wahls]

$1,500.

[Krystal Ball]

Cheap date.

[Zach Wahls]

And you will never guess, though, who was some of her biggest supporters in her campaign for the U.S. house or who did a fundraising event for her in the Senate campaign just a few months ago. So when we talk about this connection between, you know, the rigged economy and the corruption of our politics, I saw that firsthand as a freshman legislator. And look, I will tell you this. I was excited to run against Joni Ernst, but when I found out I was going to be running against Ashley Hinson, I jumped out of bed the next morning.

[Ryan Grim]

All right, so he's probably going to lose after $9 million got dumped on his head. But what's ironic is that the race is not over. Zach Walls is actually still in it. If it was really true that Turek was the most electable candidate by miles, $9 million spent by Washington should put him way over the top. Like it should not still be close. That kind of undermines your own case. Anyway, we'll be tracking this.

[Krystal Ball]

We'll see. All right, so there we go. You had a candidate who might have technically been able to win and all that, and instead, they backed some guy because of an AI error. You can't make it.

[Ryan Grim]

Maybe. Terrorist. We'll see.

[Krystal Ball]

This is why we love Ryan. Only he could uncover something like this. Okay, we have a prerecorded interview here. Our great Griffin Davis actually sat down with Tom Steyer, the gubernatorial candidate. He pressed him on all kinds of questions. So without further ado. And by the way, let me just mention again, his suit looks fantastic in this interview. Meanwhile, Tom Steyer is not wearing a suit. And you will see why that matters as the power dynamics shift towards Griffin as he forcefully pushes him on all the issues. Let's take a listen.

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[Breaking Points Host]

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[Martha Stewart]

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[Griffin Davis]

Hello.

[Interviewer]

Breaking Points. Griffin here. And we're here with California governor candidate Tom Steyer. Tom, how's it going?

[Griffin Davis]

I would say I'm having a ball. Yeah, you would say I am having a ball.

[Ryan Grim]

Okay.

[Griffin Davis]

And let me say this. People always ask me, you know, is it really hard? And I'm like, it's really fun. I actually feel like this is such a privilege and such a joy to get to go around and meet Californians. I mean, I'm going to go out today and talk to a few hundred Californians, and I get to go around every single day and meet people and learn stuff. And Californians are great. This state is great. It's fun. No one should be feeling sorry for me.

[Interviewer]

Let's have some fun. I only got you for a few minutes. I got a lot to ask. So I talk to people. They say they'll never trust a billionaire. What do you say to them?

[Griffin Davis]

Well, I can understand why people are skeptical of billionaires, that's for sure, because so many of them seem like such selfish people, so self absorbed, so entitled, so insensitive. But let me say this. I didn't inherit a penny. I started a business, ran it for 27 years, walked away from billions of dollars because I wanted to give back to the state of California. And my wife and I have said we're going to give our money away while we're alive to good causes.

[Interviewer]

And you're for tax the billionaire?

[Griffin Davis]

I'm the one. I'm the only person who's for taxing the billionaires in the state of California. Is the one billionaire on the ballot?

[Interviewer]

Sure. So you're for taxing the billionaires because, you know, I think people have a problem with billionaires because they feel like that wealth should be redistributed elsewhere, but also because people feel like billionaires are a threat to our democracy. Now, some of your opponents have accused you of paying for influencer campaigns, paying influencers to promote your campaign. Are you paying influencers?

[Griffin Davis]

And we have never paid for an endorsement. We pay people for their time. They're small business people. They can put up whatever they want. But we have.

[Interviewer]

Has any of it been negative?

[Griffin Davis]

I don't read It, I don't follow it, obviously. Look, and it could be, and that's not the problem. We do this and so does everybody else. It's just we do it openly and we report everything. And so the Becerra campaign, which has been running from answering questions from people like you, who've been running not to talk to reporters, not to answer questions from Californians, is saying, oh, you know, they're trying to change the subject. The topic in California is the people of California and why it's not working for the people of California when the state as a whole is killing it. That is the question. And they're scared to talk about that.

[Interviewer]

So you don't think if someone accepts money from the campaign that they would pull questions, do softball interviews, Obviously they're going to do positive content about you.

[Griffin Davis]

Look, they can do whatever they want, but we're not paying anyone for endorsements or outcomes. People actually are supporting our campaign. I don't know how closely you've looked at the campaign. People are supporting our campaign because they like our campaign. I mean, this race, Griffin, everyone talks about how complicated this race is. This race is not complicated. There are three people in this race. There's a MAGA Republican, Steve Hilton. Steve Hilton.

[Interviewer]

And he's British, which is rough.

[Griffin Davis]

Well, he's originally Hungarian, just so you know.

[Interviewer]

Okay, worse, maybe I'm not Hungarian.

[Griffin Davis]

To California.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Griffin Davis]

There is a corporate Democrat who's taking money from the health insurance.

[Interviewer]

Which one's that?

[Griffin Davis]

Javier Becerra.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Griffin Davis]

He's taking money from the health insurers. He's taking money from Chevron. He's taking money from the other oil drillers. He's taking money from the strongest lobby against single payer health care. He is the corporate who's taking their money and clearly feels like the corporate special interests deserve to run the state. And he said, you know, Chevron's not bad guys, we need Chevron, we should drill more. And he doesn't have an environmental policy. For me, that's, you know, end of story. But the other. And there's one progressive Democrat in this race who's standing up to the corporate interest. And the corporate interests are spending tens of millions of dollars, a record amount in any campaign against me. Cuz they know that I will stand up for working people and I will go after the corporations that are driving up the costs that make it impossible for working people to live here.

[Interviewer]

But do you think it sets a dangerous precedent? You know, we got union workers, they obviously view you as a good billionaire, but couldn't there be a bad billionaire that comes along and floods the race with influencers that are getting money from the campaign. Isn't that a dangerous precedent?

[Griffin Davis]

Well, let me put it this way. There have been billionaires who've run in California before and they've always lost. And the difference is, I didn't just decide to do this. I've been doing this full time for 14 years. I walked away from my business 14 years ago. You can look at my record and see I've taken on three times at the ballot powerful corporate interests and beaten them. I've registered 1.2 million young Californians. My wife and I have started a non profit community bank to lend money to the people that the commercial banks won't lend to because they're redlining. We've worked really hard to get a coalition to push free breakfast and free lunch for every school kid in California. We've had 20 people working for 11 years in Sacramento on every progressive legislation in this state. So I could just fall off the turnip trough, right?

[Interviewer]

Yeah. So it could be a bad billionaire comes along where you said bad billionaires have run in the past and lost. But you don't think it's a dangerous precedent to flood influencers.

[Griffin Davis]

Look, let me say this. Do I think that we need campaign finance reform? Of course I do. The only person who is standing up to these corporate special interests is me.

[Interviewer]

Should there be a cap?

[Griffin Davis]

Look, it's a much more complicated question than just one thing, but it's clear, really the question here is I'm the only billionaire on the ballot, but I'm not the only billionaire in this race. Billionaires are giving money right now to all the other candidates. Billionaires are putting money in independent expenditures to fight me. I'm the one person who's pushing to tax billionaires like me more. The only person. No one else is standing up for that in this race, including Steve Hilton and including Javier Becerra.

[Interviewer]

Let's talk more about California. A lot of people feel like California is failing. And some people blame it on the overrepresentation of Democrats. Some people tell me they feel like we need a Republican to counteract and bring balance back to the state. Why do you think California is failing?

[Griffin Davis]

Well, let me start by talking about the Republicans. Let me just put that one to rest. Have you heard any of the debates?

[Interviewer]

Oh, I've watched them all.

[Griffin Davis]

Okay, let me say Steve Hilden is ridiculous. He's ridiculous. I mean, there is the fact that he's supporting Trump kicking millions of people off medical. There is the fact that he's supporting ICE raids. There is the fact that he believes the war in Iran is good and that it hasn't caused gasoline prices to go up a buck and a half. There is the fact that he would extradite California doctors to Louisiana to be prosecuted criminally under Louisiana law for performing an abortion in California. Look, there is no way that guy has a idea in his head that makes sense. He is a MAGA Republican. And the MAGA Republicans are trying to destroy this country. I don't want him destroying our state.

[Interviewer]

Gotcha.

[Griffin Davis]

So that is very clear question in this mind, but there is a real question here.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. About balance.

[Griffin Davis]

The corporate. No, the corporate special interests own this state. The oil companies clearly own DC and they're trying to buy California and stop Cap and Invest. I don't know if you've. They're trying to stop that. They are absolutely ripping us at the pump. You know, they. Their costs don't go up when the Iran war starts. Nothing happens for them except their ability to charge more. And the head of the Western States Petroleum association, which is the lobbying group for oil, said it's their fiduciary duty to extract every penny at the pump from Californians as a result of the Iran war. Do I trust those guys? Why would you?

[Interviewer]

Let's talk about the train in nowhere. This is a big topic. Train was supposed to go from LA to San Francisco. They spent $15 billion, haven't laid a single bit of track. Why did that fail and what would you do to change that?

[Griffin Davis]

Well, it was more complicated than that in terms of failure. They started. They didn't build a train from San Francisco to la. They built a train from Bakersfield to Merced. Yes. And so there's no ridership there. But they did that because the federal government said they'd give them $4 billion if they put the train there. So they crazily decided to do it. Look, there's something going on in this state which is true. Which is we're not getting results in the real world. I mean, we're killing it in cyberspace. When you say California's not succeeding, let's be clear. California is half the growth in the United States of America.

[Krystal Ball]

That's true.

[Griffin Davis]

California is growing faster than any other state by a lot. The issue is we also have the highest poverty rate in the country. We also have a school system that's delivering somewhere in the 30s out of 50 states. We do have a place where Californian working people cannot afford to live between really high housing Costs, really high health care costs, electricity costs that are twice the national average. Everybody's getting ruined at the pump, but especially Californians and food costs. So there is a real issue here about building things physically in this state, that's for sure.

[Interviewer]

So recently, about two months ago, you went on the Hasan Piker broadcast and he asked you if you believed that Israel was committing a genocide. And you said you didn't really know what that meant. It's been about two months. Have you looked it up?

[Griffin Davis]

Look, what I think is clear about this is the Netanyahu regime is committing war crimes. America used to be supporting them with money and armaments. We're now their open partners in Iran. It's clearly a mistake. Do I think, am I again, do I oppose aipac? Look, I think they're a dark money organization. I don't think they should. They have a place in American politics. Do I understand that there's something really wrong going on here and that we're now open partners in it? Yes, I think I got that one.

[Interviewer]

Why don't you think it's a genocide? You know, over 80% of Democrats and over 50% of independents say it's a genocide. Why are you in the minority on that?

[Griffin Davis]

I don't think what I've said is I'm calling it war crimes. I want, I still, and some people get mad at me when I say this, but it's true. I don't understand how we possibly solve this without pushing for a two state solution. The Netanyahu regime has been pushing to end the possibility of a two state solution for as long as I can remember. For as long as they've been in. I don't think that there's any way to support them. I think what they're doing is not just morally reprehensive. I believe it's a crime.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, but not a genocide. You recognize the Armenian genocide. Why don't you recognize this one?

[Griffin Davis]

I will say this. I have asked people who are expert, international experts, and they're very mixed on this.

[Interviewer]

Well, that's actually true. I've got Human Rights Watch, Beth Selim. We had an international genocide scholars group of over 500 that overwhelmingly called it a genocide. And the reason I'm pushing on this is because I think the majority of Democrats really feel like this is a moral litmus test.

[Griffin Davis]

And it is, but I'm. It is a moral litmus test and I'm completely on the side of condemning what the Netanyahu regime is doing. I'm trying to preserve the possibility of still having a two state solution where everybody's dignity, everybody's self determination is continued. And that's what I think. That's the only solution I see to this.

[Interviewer]

So if I ask like a suburban mom in like Alabama, you know, not a politician, not, not as well read into any of this stuff as you and I are, but neither of us are genocide experts. I think the majority of experts have called it a genocide. That Alabama suburban mom, she's going to call it a genocide.

[Griffin Davis]

An Alabama suburban mom?

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I think, I think there's moms all over this country that saw what

[Griffin Davis]

happened and now it's a genocide. Look.

[Interviewer]

And like, what's that, what's that you're

[Griffin Davis]

hung up on the word? What I'm hung up on is this is clearly morally wrong. This is clearly a crime against humanity. Yes, absolutely.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Spencer Pratt is gaining traction here in la. What are your thoughts on his candidacy?

[Griffin Davis]

I honestly have not focused on Spencer Pratt, but it sounds to me from what other people tell me that he's a super right wing guy and who's using a lot of anger to try and stir people up. And I'm absolutely opposed to that every place it comes out in our society.

[Interviewer]

Why do you think he, I mean, debatable on how much traction, but he's getting some traction because I do think there's this feeling that LA is failing in some way. The Hollywood industry is failing. There is a homeless crisis. People do feel like the city is failing.

[Griffin Davis]

Let me say this. I think across California people don't think government works. I think young people especially think they're being ripped off. They don't have never seen government help them make their life be better. That is an absolutely critical point and it's true. There's no question about that, that people feel like, and I think you were talking about the train to nowhere. People know that people think they'll never be able to afford a house in California. The first, the average first time home buyer's age has gone from 28 to 42. Young people think they'll never buy a house. They don't think this state can work for them.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, why can't we build here? You know, I think people think there's this battle between the state government and local city governments. How are you going to force building?

[Griffin Davis]

So let me say this, as I know you've spent lots of time on my website, I don't have to go through every detail. One of the things that I'm doing really differently about housing is I'm saying on Day one, I will call a special election to close a corporate tax loophole that's worth $20 billion. And that money will go to the states, to the counties and the cities. And the reason that's important is there is a tussle between the state and the cities and the counties because the state wants there to be building of houses. But the cities and counties are responsible for the people who live in those houses, and they don't have the money for it. And therefore, as a result of old tax rules, they push back because they don't want to get stuck in an unfunded mandate or they put in an upfront fee that's up to 20% of the cost of the house. What I'm saying is, okay, here's $20 billion around this state now you can afford to have housing. And when I've talked to mayors about this, they've said, if you really do that, I'm in.

[Interviewer]

Okay, final question, because I know you got to go. Hollywood. We feel like Hollywood's dying out here. What are you going to do to save Hollywood?

[Griffin Davis]

So let me say this. I'm a super competitive person. I am on Team California. Hollywood is by far the greatest collection of film and entertainment talent. Not the stars, but right down in all the jobs in the world, people are trying to buy our business, buy the business that basically Los Angeles invented. We can't let that happen. So I have a long list of things we need to do. But it starts with tax credits.

[Interviewer]

People shoot in Canada because it's cheaper, or they shoot overseas because it's cheaper. How can you fix that?

[Griffin Davis]

Part of it's tax credits.

[Interviewer]

Tax credits.

[Griffin Davis]

Part of it is looking at the regulations and trying to take that away. But in the long run, it's driving down costs, which is my whole campaign is about driving down costs for working people, housing costs, health care costs. But in the short run, I don't want to lose this. Every tax credit brings back a dollar and 14 cents to the state of California. We can't lose this because people buy our business. That is not okay. And we can't lose this because we've been so the perfect is the enemy of the good. We have so many expensive rules that productions can't do it. I want to support that whole ecosystem as strongly as possible. It's very hard to rebuild an ecosystem, so I don't want to lose it in the first place.

[Interviewer]

Tom, thank you for your time.

[Griffin Davis]

Deal. Griffin.

[Krystal Ball]

Thank you guys so much for watching. We appreciate it. Friday show for everybody tomorrow. Great, bro. Show Always good to see you, my friend, and we'll see you all later.

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