← Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
5/26/26: Trump Bombs Iran, Prof Marandi On Negotiations, Trump Pauses Taiwan Arms Sales
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- [00:00]
Bethenny Frankel
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- [00:29]
Krystal Ball
Visit your nearby Lowe's.
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What's up, y'?
- [00:35]
Sagar Enjeti
All?
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- [02:09]
Sagar Enjeti
Hey, guys, Sagar and Crystal here.
- [02:11]
Krystal Ball
Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.
- [02:18]
Sagar Enjeti
This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.
- [02:24]
Krystal Ball
So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.
- [02:35]
Sagar Enjeti
We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breaking points.com Good morning everybody. Happy Tuesday. Have an amazing show for everybody today. What we have, Crystal.
- [02:46]
Krystal Ball
Indeed we do. Potential Iran deal not looking so hot as the US Resumed airstrikes in southern Iran yesterday and Israel is saying they are escalating in Lebanon. So some pretty dire signs there. Professor Mohammed Morandi is also going to join us to talk about the view from the Iranian perspective on these developments and what he thinks is going to happen next. We're also going to take a look at the fallout globally from the US Strategic defeat in Iran. Right now the Trump administration has paused weapons sales to Taiwan. Of course, this comes on the heels of that big trip to China. So very interesting indications there. Minnesota has become the first state in the nation to ban prediction markets like polymarket and Kalshi. But they are facing a backlash from the federal government which is suing them now. So we will dig into that. And also supposedly Hasan Piker and Medea Benjamin have been subpoenaed over that trip that they took to Cuba. Of course, Ryan Grimm, our own Ryan Grimm is on that same trip. So he is going to join us to talk about what we know about that and the potential fallout. So a lot to get to.
- [03:46]
Sagar Enjeti
I never knew I would know so much about Cuban hotels, but here we are. Here we are. Thank you to everybody who has been who is a premium subscriber. As you guys know, we sent out that notice that we have shifted our premium service over to Supercast. So there's a couple of exciting things and that's why we were off yesterday to facilitate all of that. Let me make sure that I go through the full list. Now. First and foremost, we are on the Supercast now. Nothing is changing for you. You're still going to get your link, et cetera. There is a email that you will all have in your inbox for instructions to reconnect your Spotify feed or anything else. Now on that front, I know it's annoying and we really do apologize, but we one of the reasons that we moved is going to be lightning fast now to be able to get the show available on Spotify for our premium subscribers where you can watch on the Spotify app if you so choose. We also are going to be able to do our AMAs live on YouTube. So we'll be sending out a YouTube live unlist link for all of you. We'll be taking questions. We'll also take some pre selected questions from the Supercast platform. So we're going to mix it up there and then and I know a lot of people really, they miss some of that on YouTube. So it's all going to be there, right there for you. You can watch it at any time. YouTube, AMA. Spotify is going to be faster. And of course, as we teased for all of you, we'll have a newsletter that will be launching in June. Crystal and I were working behind the scenes to make sure that this thing is seamless and it's perfect and it's a product that we're really, really proud of. Yeah, that's going to be our five year anniversary. So tldr, we're happy to. On Supercast, the platform that we launched on, the newsletter is coming. Nothing is changing for you. You just gotta check your email and there's support contacts there for you able to figure everything out. But we believe that we're not moving again. This is it. It's done. This is it.
- [05:26]
Krystal Ball
This is our forever home.
- [05:26]
Sagar Enjeti
It's over. It's our forever home. We're very, very happy to be back on Supercast.
- [05:31]
Krystal Ball
No, we, we appreciate you guys bearing with us but I know that you're gonna enjoy the experience and appreciate it. So I, you know, I think this will be a good move for everybody and you know, like Sagar said, Spotify is gonna be faster. If you have any trouble, look in the desc. Check your inbox for that email which will have a support contact as well. Make sure that everything gets lined up and secured for you. Griffin, Mac, everybody's been working overtime and so far it's gone pretty seamless.
- [05:57]
Sagar Enjeti
That's right. Next week is our five year anniversary and we just want to enhance the premium service as much as humanly possible. We need a home where we can build on top of that and make it so that when you subscribe you give us your hard earned money that you get the best possible service that we could possibly ask for. And that's where our plans are, the newsletter and everything else. The new team over here at Breaking Point. So seriously, thank you. All right, with all of that, let's go ahead and get started here with Iran. Let's start actually with A two the biggest news that came out of the weekend. Just yesterday, Iranian sailors and fishermen were reportedly killed by US forces after they struck vessels near Bandar Abbas. The IRGC linked Fars News reported explosions and similar sounds. The CENTCOM spokesperson confirmed to Fox News that United States forces conducted strikes in southern Iran, quote, to protect our troops from threats posed by Iranian forces. Targets he said included missile launch sites and Iranian boats that were attempting to place mines. Two senior U.S. officials told Fox News that the strikes were defensive and do not indicate that the ceasefire is over. Iranian air defenses separately shot down a MQ9 Reaper drone in the past day. Two downed by the IRGC and won by the army's air defense. So all of this is from IRGC and centcom. So obviously, you know, the details are a little bit unclear. But what we do know, people have
- [07:18]
Krystal Ball
very interesting definitions of ceasefire.
- [07:20]
Sagar Enjeti
I will just say ceasing fire self defense also, by the way, look, we have no idea what happened. What we do know is that on the heels of some alleged agreement, there's a couple of signs where things are falling apart. First is let's take the US at its word, even on its face, which is that these boats were laying mines in the Straits of Hormuz. Well, that's not really something that you would be doing if you were on the verge of some sort of imminent ceasefire and a reopening of the Straits of Hormuz. Second is that US Air fighter jets not only went after these boats, but they also targeted missile launch sites that are on the coast that were responding to some of these US Forces shows like the heavy level of US Military involvement that remains in the Strait as a deal is supposedly closed. Now, the second part of this, which I think is very important, let's put a 3B please, up here on the screen. But Israel has now struck a number of strikes. It has now struck a number of targets in Lebanon as of yesterday. This came on the heels of an announcement from the Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, that they were going to facilitate their, quote, defensive strikes against Hezbollah. The reason why all of this matters together is that the ceasefire on its face is supposed to apply to Lebanon as it was previously. Israel, obviously, and Hezbollah did not abide by that. After the initial ceasefire happened, there continued to be firing all along the. Now it's happening again with the backing of the United States. But most significantly too, as we led with US Forces striking Iranian forces directly in the streets of Hormuz, all on the verge of this alleged ceasefire extension, which we're potentially being negotiated right now.
- [09:03]
Krystal Ball
I am old enough to remember when Trump put on a true social saying, demanding that Israel stop the bombing in Lebanon. And now here we are with Israel announcing and with the ascent of President Trump saying, yes, we are going to continue to Bomb. We are going to escalate what we are doing in Lebanon and we have no intention of stopping. So that tells you everything you need to know about how close we are actually to a deal. And we saw some ridiculous statements coming out from Trump aligned media figures. Scott Jennings and others will actually ask Professor Morandi about some of this. With the deal's 95% done, all we need to figure out is this whole Strait of Hormuz situation and also the whole nuclear situation was like, okay, well if that's remaining on the table, then you are not at 95% of the deal. You actually haven't tackled any, any of these significant issues which are barriers to the end of this war. I was listening to Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson this morning in an interview with Glenn Deason and he made what I thought was a really important point. He's like, look, the heart of diplomacy is meeting face to face and working things out. That becomes even more important when you have two parties that have negative trust. Why? Because we've used diplomacy as a feint, as a ruse to bomb and attack this country. Now on multiple occ. The fact of the matter is that since those initial talks in Pakistan, there have not been any, any face to face meetings between anyone in Iran and anyone in the US So do you really think we're close to ironing out a deal when no one from our side has even spoken directly to anyone from their side? And now we've gone back to bombing and the Israelis who do not want any sort of a deal have been given the green light to escalate in Lebanon. And now. And we can put this element up on the screen as well. This is Trump truth social. I'm not sure Sagar which element this is, but in any case Trump is now saying that we have to. He wants the Gulf countries to join the Abraham Accords as part of this comprehensive deal. So now you're trying to add another complicating factor into this. And of course these Gulf countries are rightly saying, well, hey, part of the whole idea of normalizing relations with Israel is that you would have some sort of Palestinian state or at least a credible path to that Palestinian state. And of course we are so far from that that it is an absolute joke. It's preposterous to imagine that we're heading in that direction.
- [11:29]
Sagar Enjeti
Let me really sit on this cuz it's really important. And so actually I'll come back to this guys, I apologize for all the jumping around. Go back to A1. So on the One hand, we actually do have a massive concession here from Donald Trump. This happened late yesterday. Here's what he said. The enriched uranium nuclear dis will either immediately be turned over to the United States to be brought home, or preferably in conjunction and coordination with the Islamic Republic of Iran, destroyed in place or at yet another acceptable location with the Atomic Energy Commission. By the way, he means the IAEA because the Atomic Energy Commission doesn't exist anymore or its equivalent being witness to this process and event. Thank you for your attention to this matter. Why is this such a massive concession? Because for the entire time now so far, Trump has said all of the, quote, nuclear dust, nuclear dust, aka nuclear material, enriched uranium up to 60% must be turned over to the United States. Iran has said, well, not so fast. We have two options. We can either down blend it here under the supervision of the iaea, or we will ship it to Russia or China, a friendly third party nation under which IAEA inspectors can verify that it has being downblended and it will be held there in potential future use for Iran. That has been the longstanding position of the Islamic Republic. Now here what we have is Trump saying, actually that would be acceptable. That's a huge deal whenever it comes to some sort of a understanding. However, let's go back to a three. This is what Crystal's point is, is that at the very same time, this very, very long true social post where Trump says negotiations with the Islamic Republic are proceeding nicely. Now when we fast forward to the bottom line, those countries, it may be possible one or two reasons for not doing so, they will be accepted, but most should be ready and willing and even able to make this settlement with Iran a far more historic event than it should be otherwise. And what he says at the beginning there is they must sign onto the Abraham Accords. Now, what are the Abraham Accords? The Abraham Accords, frankly, are one of the main reasons that we're in this mess in the first place. Not just Iran, but October 7th and also the entire attack by Hamas, what it was is a normalization of relations between the Gulf countries, select signatories and Israel. And so what Trump is saying here is that in conjunction for a ceasefire between Iran and the United States, that they, these Gulf countries, all of these regional countries, must normalize relations with Israel without the establishment of a Palestinian state. And so what he's trying to do is a grand bargain. And actually, if you zoom out, it all makes a ton of sense, the deal on its face. If Trump backs down on nuclear dust, if you will Saying not only will they not turn it over to us, but they're basically gonna fulfill some JCPOA style agreement with IAEA inspectors and shipping uranium to Russia. That's literally what they did under the jcpoa. If he does. Oh, and they've reopened the Straits of Hormuz which were open already the day before the war. What is the entire international community gonna say? You lost, dude, you obviously lost. So what does he need? He needs a bigger grand bargain. And that's what the Abraham Accords also enables him to do. The that it does is it unilaterally disarms the entire Gulf away from the establishment of a Palestinian state. Now let's be real, like they never actually cared that much about a Palestinian state, but to their people it matters a lot. Not to the governments, but to the actual citizens of these countries. Now whether they can vote or not doesn't matter. Remember, there's still some popular agency in many of these Gulf monarchies. So in this case, what he's trying to do is to get them to unilaterally disarm on the issue of Palestine and deliver Israel this massive diplomatic victory. Cause we're not just here about the uae, which is the closest ally of Israel, but all of these other regional countries which do not have good relations with Israel or they don't like Israel all that much and they have their own domestic populations that they have to worry about. So basically the entire ceasefire now hinges actually on normalization of relations with Israel and these Gulf countries who are supposed to give this up, even though it has nothing to do with Iran. It's actually another reason why this ceasefire will fail. If this is going to remain some top priority from the White House. And this is the second time that he said it so far, so maybe we should take him at his word.
- [15:38]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, absolutely. I mean it also fits with just him being an old man and wanting his legacy and to be world changing leader, blah, blah, blah. I mean that really is a big part of why we're in this whole mess to begin with is his own ego and desire to leave his mark on the world like a dog pissing on his territory. We can put this Axios report up on the screen as well that has some interesting details reportedly from this call. This was Barack Ravid report here. Trump asked Muslim leaders to join the Abraham Accords after the Iran war ends. Those leaders, especially those of Saudi, Qatar and Pakistan, who do not have formal diplomatic relations with Israel, were surprised by Trump's request. Quote, there was silence on the line and Trump joked and asked if they are still there. One of the US Officials said, so that gives you a sense of how shocking this was to at least some of the leaders of. You've gotta be kidding me right now while all of this is going on and you're trying to secure some sort of a deal and we're in this war that is going to be devastating to all of our economies and has really created quite a mess for us. You're also asking us to do something that will be politically toxic to our own populations and normalize relations with Israel. That is, you know, that was the, what you could read in to that silence on the line there from these leaders. And Sagar, I was just seeing yesterday too, that Kushner is also apparently pushing a plan to change the status quo at the Al Aqsa Mosque.
- [17:03]
Sagar Enjeti
I saw that.
- [17:04]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, and you were. I mean, listen, what are you setting up here for? Because October 7th, and this is not justificated, this is analysis by Hamas's own words. They said a big part of this was the Abraham Accords, which was basically, hey, forget about Palestine, we're all just moving forward. They said, we cannot allow the world to forget our cause, so we need to do something dramatic. It was their, their name for October 7th is the Al Aqsa a Flood. That gives you a sense of how important that mosque is in their own view of the world and their own ideology. So not only are you saying, oh, we're gonna have the whole region normalize relations with Israel without giving a shit about any Palestinian state or rights for Palestinians, et cetera, we're also going to try to change the status quo at the Al Aqsa mosque. I mean, this seems like a recipe for disaster. It also seems like something that just isn't going to happen. I mean, it's far fetched at this point that again, that Trump is this close to a deal and they're where we're all just waiting, counting down the minutes before he announces some grand bargain that's gonna rescue us from this complete quagmire disaster that he's gotten us into.
- [18:07]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, I mean, the fact that the strikes are happening, look, it's not impossible. And there has been a major, there has been a major give from Trump on the nuclear enrichment issue. But when you're going to demand this Israel normalization of relations through the Abraham Accords, that is going to, that just dramatically changes the entire process. And again, it's so that he does not have to tell the world how he got humiliated. Let's put a 4 up here on the screen just again, to show you all how beholden to Israel this administration is acting. Because now you have basically a background statement. A senior U.S. official. We can do some tea leaves, I'm gonna guess from the State Department, who says the Trump administration would support an escalation in Israeli military action in retaliation to Hezbollah violations of the ceasefire. The US Official says Hezbollah has ignored repeated requests to stop firing at Israel, including a recent ultimatum. Israel will never be expected to passively absorb attacks on its forces and civilians. This is not the Biden administration. The official said that since April 17, Hezbollah has fired.
- [19:09]
Professor Mohammad Morandi
Blah, blah, blah.
- [19:09]
Sagar Enjeti
The US official stresses Hezbollah is entirely responsible for the current situation. It broke the ceasefire on March 2 and is now intent on denying the Lebanese people a path to peace and reconstruction. According to the official, Hezbollah is concerned about the direct negotiations with the Lebanese government and Israel, with the support of the US and sees it as an existential threat. A successful ceasefire led by the government of Lebanon would strip Hezbollah of their power and their narrative. And remember, those are two warring factions. You also have here the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio on the ground in India backing up Israel's strikes on Hezbollah. Let's take a listen.
- [19:42]
Professor Mohammad Morandi
What about Lebanon?
- [19:43]
Sagar Enjeti
Is Lebanon gonna be part of a deal?
- [19:45]
Well, Lebanon we're working on separately with Lebanon. We are engaged now. We have a 45 day ceasefire. We've had weekly meetings now and ongoing dates, daily engagements between the government of Lebanon and Israel. The problem is not Lebanon and Israel. The problem is Hezbollah. Just last night, Hezbollah put out a statement calling for the overthrow of the Lebanese government. And it just reminds you who you are dealing with here, by the way. An Iranian proxy, 100% Iranian proxy.
- [20:09]
So he says they're basically backing them up. And then a six immediately after the US gives a green light. Here's what we see. The Prime Minister of Israel says Israel will intensify its strikes on Lebanon's Hezbollah with the backing here of the United States. So we have major strikes in Lebanon. We also have, of course, the US strikes on Iran. All of this happening under the guise of an alleged ceasefire. We do not know yet what this is all going to hold. We did have some indications. Let's not forget the Iranian negotiators, Golubov and the Foreign Minister were in Doha as of yesterday, meeting with the Qataris. That's very important because the Qataris had come to them previously. The Iranian negotiators. Allegedly what they're talking with Qatar about is that Qatar is like the Guarantor of some several billion dollars that are frozen Iranian funds by the United States. So they would need some guarantee for some sort of a release. But as of right now, things are not nearly as optimistic as let's say when we were talking 72 hours. Yeah, 48 hours ago when we did our Sunday update. Trita Parsi, his analysis, always worth kind of checking in on what he said is it's possible that Iran would sign this agreement even with these ceasefire violations with Lebanon. But because Lebanon is being struck by Israel, that Iran would just ruthlessly pound the UAE because it is Israel's greatest ally in the Gulf. And so every time that they would break the ceasefire on Hezbollah, they would break the ceasefire on the UAE and basically dare the United States. You guys wanna go full back to full blown war over Israel and Hezbollah? Okay, that's fine. We're gonna keep pounding the uae, they get to keep pounding Hezbollah. And if you want us to stop both of those things, then they need to end. So that's one possible way that this all may go about. But this is the mess that Trump has gotten us into. And gas still remains at what, let's
- [22:00]
Krystal Ball
see, it's about $100 a barrel, I
- [22:02]
Sagar Enjeti
think $449 a gallon here nationally.
- [22:05]
Krystal Ball
So $4.50. How was your Memorial Day weekend? You know, I was looking at the prices too, that have gone up significantly. And certainly part of that is the Iran war. No. And not for nothing, Israel is also, they've by the ceasefire in Gaza, they've continued to go on murderous rampages this whole time. But that has also been escalated in recent days, as you pointed out in our breaking news segment with Treata Parsi. So you have Israel continuing to escalate in Lebanon, in Gaza, you have now US Strikes in southern Iran not looking good for a potential deal. And of course, neither the US And Iran, they are not meeting face to face. So how are you going to establish some sort of deal with parties that have negative trust without any sort of face to face conversations? Seems pretty unlikely. But to get the Iranian perspective on this, we can now bring in Professor Mohammed Morandi for his view on these recent events.
- [23:00]
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- [23:47]
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- [25:21]
Krystal Ball
joining us now to discuss that Iranian perspective is Professor Mohammad Morandi of the University of Tehran. Great to see you again sir.
- [25:27]
Sagar Enjeti
Good to see you.
- [25:28]
Professor Mohammad Morandi
Thank you very much for having me.
- [25:30]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, of course. So let's go ahead and put B1 up on the screen here guys. So we've got a report, this one from the Financial Times that some of Iran's top negotiators have traveled to Qatar amid intensified efforts to secure a deal. What is your sense of how real these negotiations are and how close we are to a potential end of this war?
- [25:52]
Professor Mohammad Morandi
It's very difficult to say. The negotiations in Qatar seem to be going well. That is for the potential transfer of Iranian assets that were confiscated by the Americans or blocked by the Americans. They want to make sure that the Iranians received assets if an agreement is signed. But the night before last, the United States, they bombed two boats, killing four Iranian soldiers, and they were in Iranian waters, and there was no reason for them to carry out that assault. And that is raising a lot of questions in Tehran. And then we see Netanyahu, who is about to escalate, and he wants to carpet bomb cities in Lebanon again, which reminds us of the previous ceasefire. After the 39 days of fighting, when there was a ceasefire between Iran and the United States, which included Lebanon back then, he started to carpet bomb cities and he killed hundreds of people within a few minutes in order to wreck the ceasefire. So the belief here is that there is an effort to undermine any potential deal between the two sides.
- [27:07]
Sagar Enjeti
Professor, I do want to ask you about the reception in Tehran to this more recent Trump concession, saying yesterday that the preferable solution for enriched uranium is to have it either be down, blended, destroyed on Iranian soil or transported to a third party, presumably Russia or China. This previously was not something. Something that President Trump was willing to accept, at least publicly. How was the reception to that in Tehran? Is it viewed as a positive concession on the way to a deal or otherwise?
- [27:41]
Professor Mohammad Morandi
Well, the Iranians are saying that we're not yet there. We haven't reached that stage. First we have to have an agreement. And then after the 60 days, if all goes well, and the Americans abide by their commitments, then we can move on and discuss the nuclear program as well as sanctions and other issues that exist between the two sides. But ultimately, the Iranians have said very clearly and repeatedly that they're not going to hand over any enriched uranium to the United States, nor do they plan to send it abroad. So this is, I would say, as an Iranian who's looking at events here, I think that this is a positive step. Step in the. This is a step in the right direction, but again, we have different things happening simultaneously. And the, the murder of the four soldiers, the. In intensified assaults on civilian targets in Lebanon, and this. It's difficult to figure out where things are ultimately going. So if I was a betting man, which I'm not, but I don't think I could bet either way, whether there will be an agreement or there will be a continuation of what we have, or war.
- [29:02]
Krystal Ball
As you indicated, the concept is that the nuclear file negotiations will be pushed off into the future. But in this initial negotiation, there are a lot of details that remain to be worked out and can put B2 up on the screen which pertains to the status of the Strait of Hormuz. So this is from an Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesperson. We are not seeking tolls from the Strait of Hormuz. Be careful in choosing words. Fees are charged for the services that Iran and Oman provide in the Strait of Hormuz as well as for the implementation of nature and ecosystem protection program. So not a toll, but a fee for services. What is your sense, though, of what some of the red lines in this initial phase of negotiations are for Iran? Iran?
- [29:44]
Professor Mohammad Morandi
Well, maybe they're trying to appeal to leftists in Europe and the left wing of the Democratic Party in the United States with regards to environmentalist environmentalism. But I, I think it's the Iranians are, have said many times, and I think they're very serious about it, that the status of the Strait of Hormuz is not going to go back to what it was before for two reasons. One is that the Iranians feel that they have the right to receive fees rather than tolls, just like Turkey does. But second, the Iranians don't want the Americans to be able to rebuild those military bases in the Persian Gulf, and they don't want an Israeli presence or a European presence either. And right now, the Americans, as we all know, they're forced to use planes to bring in troops and equipment to the region, which is much more expensive and causes more damage to the equipment. And they want to continue to make it more difficult for them to maintain their presence. So I think the Iranians are going to remain in charge of the Strait, no doubt, I believe, but. But I don't think they're going to do it in a way in which impedes traffic, because the Iranians do want business as usual to carry on through the Strait of Hormones. That's obviously how Iran makes a lot of money. And countries friendly to Iran, like Iraq or Oman, they also make a lot of money as a result of trade and business in the Persian Gulf.
- [31:27]
Sagar Enjeti
Professor, how does the Iran view this more recent addition by the Trump administration to insist that all of the regional countries must recognize Israel via the Abraham Accords as part of some sort of comprehensive ceasefire between the United States and Iran?
- [31:44]
Professor Mohammad Morandi
I think the United States really doesn't, or Trump at least doesn't really understand that this sort of language, especially what we saw in the, in his truth social post, which he was effectively ordering them to join. Now, I don't know what language he used on the phone, but the truth social post was insulting to these countries and for these family regimes in the Persian Gulf in particular. It undermines their position among the public, especially since they've already been weakened due to war. If they are perceived to be moving towards the Israeli regime, it makes them more unpopular. And when the United States is, or Trump is ordering them to take a particular stand and they don't respond, that also doesn't look good for them. I don't think though that any of these countries under the current circumstances are going to take any further steps towards building relations with the Israeli regime. We know all of them do have relations. Qatar, the Saudis, all of them have relations. But Torquay. But I don't think that right now any of them want to have to improve those relations because there's an ongoing genocide. It's been going on now for almost three years and now the slaughter has begun in Lebanon too. So I don't see that happening. And of course Iran is never going to join such an accord because Iran doesn't consider the Israeli regime in its current form as an ethno supremacist entity to be legitimate.
- [33:30]
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- [34:16]
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- [35:17]
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- [35:50]
Krystal Ball
how much of a problem is the fact that Israel is insisting on we're going to continue to bomb in Lebanon, you know, celebrating ethnic cleansing there. Trump seems to have effectively greenlit this at this point. And of course Netanyahu is not interested in an end to this war, coming to some sort of a deal or accord that that would make sense for the region. So how much of this is an obstacle to, you know, that will completely block any progress towards a deal?
- [36:16]
Professor Mohammad Morandi
It will completely block progress because you recall that after the fighting, the 39 days of hot war, when there was a ceasefire, one of the conditions was a ceasefire across the region. And then Netanyahu began the carpet bombing. Iran said until there's a ceasefire, we're not going to allow allow those extra ships from countries that are linked to those who were hostile to Iran during the war to pass through the Strait. So Netanyahu, by violating the ceasefire agreement, he has been preventing the world from obtaining the energy and the other resources that they get from the Persian Gulf. And I I know that the Iranians continue to take the same position. Now the war in the genocidal attacks in Lebanon have to stop. Otherwise this agreement will simply not work at all. And the strait of hormones will not go back to normal, especially for Iran. Lebanon has a particularly high status and a moral status because when the genocide began in Gaza, no one but Hezbollah and the resistance went to the aid of Gaza. When they began fighting in southern Lebanon in order to draw away some of the Israeli troops from Gaza to ease the pressure on the Gazan population, even though they knew that they would be beaten, they would be bombed and slaughtered and their families would be taken out as a result of this policy. But for Iran, this was, was a heroic stance that Hezbollah took over the past two and a half years, more than two and a half years. And that's why Iran, for that reason too is simply not going to accept the war to continue. And if it does, Iran will not allow those ships to pass through.
- [38:15]
Krystal Ball
I wanted to ask you a little bit of just what is life like in Iran right now? Have things pretty much, you know, resumed to normal daily pace you can put before up on the screen. This is a report from Reuters that the Iranian President has ordered the reopening of international Internet access within Iran. So you know, is there a sense of sort of normalcy day to day or things still feel very unsettled. Is there a lot of economic pressure? What is, what is day to day life like in Tehran right now?
- [38:45]
Professor Mohammad Morandi
It is normal, although there are a couple of policies that I think were very bad and that is that after the fighting stopped they, they continue to have schools and universities, university courses online. And I think we all know what happened during Corona. But from next week schools and university classes will be on campus and at school. So from next week I'll be on campus teaching my students. But during the past few weeks, even though there was no fighting, my classes were online and during the war of course they were online too. So we're almost back to normal. I think we could have been back to normal earlier, but Internet as you pointed out, is going to go back to normal. Schools and universities are going to go back to normal. But we have a lot of inflation and obviously because of the airstrikes on factories, on pharmaceutical factories, on the, on hospitals, schools and other infrastructure, the economy is hurting. And also the siege itself is having an economic impact because Iran can't import medicine or food from the Persian Gulf easily. It's very difficult. So there is inflation. But the Iranians believe that they will be able to wait out outweigh the United States because this siege on Iranian ports is a double edged sword and it's basically a siege on the whole global economy. So Iran Says we'll wait and until the United States is forced to change. And I think that that policy is working because over the past couple of weeks, the American negotiators had a much greater sense of urgency to get this deal done. Done than the Iranians. The Iranians are very careful. They're, they're slow because they want to make sure that there are no loopholes, because they know what happened in the jcpoa. They were, the Obama administration took advantage of those loopholes against Iran and they never fulfilled their obligations. And then, of course, Trump later on, of course, left the deal. But the Iranians want to make sure this time round we don't have a situation where Iran carries out obligations and then the Americans refrain from carrying out their own. And that's the main reason why the speaker of Parliament is in Doha right now to make sure that money comes to Iran as soon as, if an agreement is signed.
- [41:21]
Sagar Enjeti
Professor, give us some signs that we can look for here in the west to actually see that a deal may be happening. You pointed out the speaker there in Doha. However, we've seen numerous trips. We've seen the Pakistani army chief visit Tehran. Then we saw strikes that just happened yesterday. So how can we assess the willingness in your country to actually want to sign a deal? And same for us. What concessions can we look for from the American side that still remain outstanding?
- [41:53]
Professor Mohammad Morandi
Well, first, I should also add that another reason why the speaker of Parliament and the chief negotiator is in Doha is also to try to, to encourage countries in the Persian Gulf that assisted the United States in the war to tilt away from Trump and to establish better ties with Iran. So that, that is another reason why it's going. We were pretty close, actually, and there was a widespread belief that by now we would have had a deal. But it seems in Tehran that, that the neocons and the Zionist lobby in the United States States pushed back hard on Trump, and we saw him make some statements that ran against the agreements that they had reached during the negotiations. So during this 60 days, the Americans were supposed to release a substantial segment of Iranian assets that were confiscated. The sanctions on the energy sector would be waived. There would be a regional ceasefire, and the Americans would bear responsibility. Because in the deal, it says the United States and its allies, and then Iran and its allies also the, the status of Iran's control over the Strait of Hormones is not questioned. The United States gets a commitment by Iran not to develop nuclear weapons, which is fine for Iran because Iran has been saying it for decades that they have no intention of developing nuclear weapons. So the Iranians feel that they have a strong hand because of this trade of Hormuz more than anything else. But, but everything depends on Trump. It could be resolved very quickly, within a day or two. But I think that there are lots of pressures in the United States right now that may prevent it from ever happening again. If we go the reason why the ceasefire was wrecked a couple of months ago, almost a month and a half ago roughly, was because of Netanyahu. He refused to abide by the ceasefire and if he hadn't done that right, we would have had the last month and a half, we would have had ships going through the Strait of Hormuz and the global economy would have been in a much better situation now. So it depends on what Netanyahu does in Lebanon with regards to Lebanon, and it depends on whether Trump is serious and he is willing to stand up to the Zionist lobby.
- [44:44]
Krystal Ball
Professor Morandi, always so useful to have your analysis. Thank you so much for joining us this morning.
- [44:48]
Sagar Enjeti
Thank you sir.
- [44:49]
Professor Mohammad Morandi
Thank you very much for having me.
- [44:52]
Bethenny Frankel
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- [45:23]
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Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI, it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available@public.com disclosures if you're feeling
- [46:24]
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- [46:29]
Krystal Ball
Normal.
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- [46:53]
Sagar Enjeti
That's innerbalance.com turning now to Taiwan, on the heels of the Trump Xi summit, it appears now the United States will pause weapons sales to Taiwan, blaming the situation on the war with Iran and the need to conserve ammunition. Let's take a listen to the acting Navy secretary, Hong Kong under questioning from the Senator Mitch McConnell, or what's left of him. Let's take a listen to buy arms from us. And all of a sudden there's a pause. What are you hearing from this Taiwanese about the pause?
- [47:28]
Chairman? I have not heard, I have not spoken to the Taiwanese. However, we are, we have done some military, foreign military sales to them. And it's just right now we're doing a pause in order to, to make sure we have the munitions we need for Epic Fury, which we have plenty. But we're just making, making sure we have everything. But then the foreign military sales will continue you when the administration deems necessary. Sir.
- [47:53]
I'm just going to put McConnell's health to the side and we'll focus on
- [47:55]
Krystal Ball
the, yeah, good political class just rotting and decomposing before our eyes.
- [47:59]
Sagar Enjeti
So first and foremost that's important. So when we're talking about declining empire, that's a significant part of it. But let's focus on the substance, shall we? Let's put the next one up here on the screen. The Iran war in China thaw complicate U.S. support for Taiwan. A $14 billion Taiwan arms sale is now on hold amid the strain of the Middle east conflict and Trump's reconciliation with Beijing. So this was confirmed by Hung Cao, the acting Navy secretary, before the Senate committee on Thursday. It has now been confirmed officially by the Pentagon of this quote, pause fueling concern among lawmakers and Taiwanese officials for president's support. President Trump's support of the island nation as he juggles the Middle east war and the desire for detente with Beijing. And the reason why that we are sitting with this, it is the single most important part of this entire strategic defeat that we have now suffered with Iran. No matter which way the ceasefire goes, this was the inevitable consequence. And I think it was inevitable from day one. But especially some two to three weeks into the conflict when we started to see the munitions path begin to dwindle, it just became mathematically impossible to seek a different solution. And then second, Trump, by getting into this disastrous situation, by removing almost unilaterally himself, some sort of military option on the table, reducing deterrence, you now have a situation where you have no choice but to seek detente with Beijing. You genuinely don't. You need Beijing to bail you out of this global crisis. One of the reasons, and this is fascinating to me, one of the reasons why oil is only $100 a barrel. China is importing less oil today than it ever has in modern history. And it is doing so as a favor to the global economy, saying, hey, we have a huge Strategic Petroleum reserve. What we're gonna do is we're gonna import less, so we're gonna keep the oil price down. If they were importing at normal levels, it'd be $150 a barrel, something like that, based upon the analysis that I've seen, which means it would be $6 a gallon here in the United States. You think that there's not some back and forth, give and take between the United States? Like, it's obviously not just gift to Trump, it's a gift really to all of the other nations in Asia who are very reliant here on the US and what we're seeing here is that Taiwan is the tip of the spear. Because Taiwan, if you were to compare Taiwan and Israel, let's say one country now, as of this morning, just surpassed the entire GDP of India, Taiwan, India, all of Taiwan, just tiny little island nation based on semiconductors for all the electronics. And, you know, it's been reasonable ally over the years with the United States, Israel, causing problem after problem after problem after problem with the GDP of like or bilateral trade between the US of like 50 something billion, which ranks along like Chile. Right. Taiwan is in the top 10. Which would you choose to defend? You could ask me or anybody else. I think it's a pretty obvious answer. We have chosen instead to throw the full force of the empire behind Israel and by doing so have sacrificed even the ability, if you wanted to, to do so with Taiwan and possibly even with South Korea and Japan, which I'll get to here in a moment. But I mean, this is it, this is it. And I mean, I thought it probably always was, but there was at least 10% deterrent, I would say. I don't even know it's gone. And Trump has evaporated it as a result of this war.
- [51:09]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, I mean, $14 billion weapon sale or not, it's over. What? We can't defeat this middle income, at best, regional power of Iran, and we're going to go up against China for Taiwan? Not. No, we're not going to do that. I mean, we can say whatever we want, maintain ambiguity, blah, blah, blah. The reality is clear to everyone. It's certainly clear to the Chinese. And this decision to pause the weapon sale is also, you know, this is a direct result of this meeting and of this trip to China that Trump just went on. Just to recall how this all went down. You know, the public statements from Trump were completely sympathantic towards Xi, very praiseful, worshipful. She was much of, sort of more hardline and clear cut about, hey, we are going to try to avoid the Thucydides trap, which means we don't want, as you are, a declining empire, we don't want to go to war with you. And they expressed upset over this weapon sale. And lo and behold, we said, okay, like, we'll do what you want because we are not in a position to do otherwise at this point. That's the reality. And you know, this, this has been made manifest by the Iran war. Now it is undeniable. As Sager is pointing out, whatever sort of imaginary deterrent there was previously is now wiped clean. So when China says, hey, I don't really like the fact that you're doing this $14 billion weapons sale right now, guess what? Our best course of action is to say, okay, we won't do it then, because we need to have good relations with you so that you do not cut us off from not only what we need in terms of semiconductors in Taiwan, but other various rare earth minerals and other supply lines that we are completely dependent on China for. So that is just an acknowledgment of the reality of the world that we live in now. It is a different day regardless of how the Iran war concludes and what the contours of a deal are, blah, blah, blah. And when that comes, whether it's this week or two months from now or a year from now, the world has changed and everybody has opened their eyes to the fact that we are no longer in any position to throw our weight around in the world in the same way.
- [53:20]
Sagar Enjeti
Right. And this is a disaster, really, for the United States, because the entire. The entire basis of the American empire, especially in Asia, was built upon the security guarantee not just for Taiwan, but for Japan, for South Korea. And in exchange, what that means is that there is open and navigable trade waters for cheap shit to flow to the US I'm not saying this is a good thing. I'm saying this just is the basic basis for the US I personally would like to change some of that. However, if we were gonna say who are the best allies, I would say Japan and South Korea, especially when you compare them to a lot of these European nations. Well, what's gonna happen now? C3, please. Let's put it up here on the screen. Just yesterday. The US has now warned Japan of a severe delay in Tomahawk deliveries due to the Iran war. The missiles will come two years late as the Pentagon now has to replenish its own stocks depleted in the Middle east military campaign. So, remember, we went to Japan and we said, hey, you guys have to buy Tomahawk missiles. They were like, okay, let's do it. So then we took their money, and now we're like, just so you know, we're gonna have to wait a few years to give it to you, because we blew it all with the Iran war. This was the interruption is the big blow to. Japan ordered Tomahawks again for the first time in 2024 at the insistence of the US to enhance its deterrence against China. The missiles have now would have given Japan a, quote, counter strike capability to hit coastal China. And it was a $2.5 billion deal after Washington urged Japan to increase its defense spending. So Japan does it, and they give us the money. They're like, all right, so give us the missiles. Nope, we can't even turn those missiles over right now. This comes on the heels of this. Increasingly, all of these reports that are coming out, which you don't need a report necessarily for the obvious, but let's put this Washington Post piece that I sent in post production. US Allies in Asia are now trying to shield themselves from Trump's unpredictability. And what they say is that Trump's seeming ambivalence about the value of allies has created a sense of urgency among nations with close US Ties as China now shows greater willingness to strong arm its neighbors and Trump injects waves of unpredictability. Japan and South Korea are banding together as smaller nations redraw the geostrategic balance in Asia. Despite Their complicated history. So to get Japan and South Korea to work together, that takes a titanic feat from the United States. Two countries which hate each other for good reason. Yeah, I don't blame it, but, you know, not my place to judge about who is comforting women who. But just saying, I don't blame the South Koreans for still being upset.
- [55:52]
Krystal Ball
Trump is uniting the globe in ways we never could have imagined in South Korea.
- [55:54]
Sagar Enjeti
We never could have imagined. But what they're pointing out is this, quote, growing urgency was felt from the big powers, from the South Korean president hosting the Japanese Prime Minister for a two day summit, including a banquet and traditional fireworks show. Something that, you know, rare generally. And what they're doing is they're pushing them together to say, okay, we have these two great nations, you know, the giant economies, however, both are, have total security guarantees previously thought ironclad from the United States, not so ironclad anymore. You take those Thads out, take those Tomahawks away, you have Trump, you know, saying, oh, we're gonna pump pause weapon sales to Taiwan. They're like, well, remember, for Japan and South Korea, they have two twin problems. They don't just have China, they've got North Korea, which can fire, which literally fires missiles over Japan and near South Korea all the time. Who is this sworn enemy? So for them, what they need to do is they need some sort of guarantee. And look, some of this is healthy, like in the long run, because it gives them strategic independence, but it will come as health for the globe and detriment to the US Dollar and to our own security guarantee, our ability to buy cheap goods, our ability to have good relations with these nations. And again, just be very clear, who is more important to the United States of America, Japan, South Korea and Taiwan, or Israel, the UAE and Saudi Arabia. It's a joke compared to their actual economic importance, especially in the future when we transition generally.
- [57:25]
Krystal Ball
How many Trump, Kushner and Whitfield properties, though, exactly exist in the Gulf region is, I guess, the more important question to ask here in terms of the type of decision making that is being made. And look, also the same logic that we apply for the US Bases in the Middle east, where now many of them have been destroyed. Countries are realizing, hey, we thought having these bases on our soil would help protect us. Instead it made us a target. That logic applies to a certain extent in places like South Korea too, in places like Japan as well, where they're saying this whole idea that this was really going to protect us as you're pulling weapon systems from our soil and sending them to the Middle East. Not sure that this fully adds up for us anymore. So I'm not saying that that change will happen overnight. But again, the logic and the calculus has completely, completely changed. You know, Trump threatened to pull our, you know, our military out of Germany, and there was a significant part number of Germans on sort of like the far right and the far left left. But we're like, okay, good, do it.
- [58:30]
Sagar Enjeti
That actually would be a great thing.
- [58:31]
Krystal Ball
I would say, please go ahead and do that. I mean, that sentiment exists in South Korea, especially among young South Koreans as well. That sentiment exists around the world. And the logic of it has also changed since the demonstration of our weakness in the Middle east and in the Iran war.
- [58:48]
Sagar Enjeti
I know you guys cover this, but C4, I cannot emphasize enough how aspects backwards. This whole thing is from John Hudson. The US bore the brunt of Israel's missile defense, which means that while Iran was shooting at Israel, the United States military expended far more of its own interceptors to protect Israel than Israeli forces did. Let me sink that in as deep as we possibly can. We have a very limited amount of these advanced interceptors, as I've emphasized over and over and over and over again on the show. They take years to rebuild. They're highly, you know, high precision. They're ridiculously multi million dollars expensive. One of the reasons we give money to Israel is so that they can have the weapons to defend themselves. This is the logic. Then when it came time to defend themselves, the United States stepped in and we defended them. We expended many of the stocks that we have so that Israel could conserve theirs. Why? Oh, because, oh, but Israel might need them in the field. Then why did we do it in the first place? And so we are now dramatically less safe because we protected Israel from Iranian missiles in a war, by the way, which they got us into and which they started. Remember day one of the war, United States Secretary of State, one of the most historic statements ever uttered by a chief diplomat. We had to do it because Israel was going to attack them and that we knew Iran would attack back. And that's why the United States had to get involved. That was his reason, reasoning, the US Secretary of State. He said it, not me. And so here we are several months later. The United States has expended the vast, vast array of its advanced interceptors, costing some hundreds of millions of dollars on behalf of this tiny little nation, while Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, they go dry. How does that make any sense? I'm losing like it genuinely this demonstrates to me the level of which there has been been a complete strategic inversion in the Trump administration. This will go down as one of the greatest follies in US History. I really like. It's not even hyperbolic now at this point. This is it. This is the big one in terms of the turning point. Yes. I owe everyone. You're just saying that. Listen, I don't just say these things willy nilly because when you stack up the balance sheet and you look here at Japan, a G7 nation, South Korea, same thing, top trading partner of the States, United, United States, Taiwan. I just described three nations which are in the top 10 trading partners of the United States who are like, I don't know, I don't know about this.
- [61:13]
Krystal Ball
And Sagar, I don't even, I don't see anyone really disagreeing. Even the neocons now, the ones who are like, oh, we gotta do more war. You know, Lindsey Graham, in that tweet that we talked about with Shrita Parsi on whatever day that was on Sunday, Sunday, he said, if this concludes with the deal right now, now, I don't know why we went into this war to start with, because even them or the Robert Kagan piece that we talked about in the Atlantic where he says it's checkmate, we lost in Iran, I don't think that there's really anyone who can disagree with that at this point. Now, some of those people use that as a justification as that's why we need a ground invasion, that's why we need to nuke them or whatever insane plans they have, but it's pretty undeniable at this point. Unless you are the just most blinded maga sycophant loyalist you could possibly imagine who just hears Trump go, we won. And are like, I guess we won. Outside of those people, it's pretty undeniable. It's really undeniable. And that's actually one of the obstacles to being able to secure some sort of a deal at this point. Because even Trump knows he's not gonna be able to sell this as a win. Even he knows, with all of his powers of persuasion and reality distortion and all, you know something, that he's very talented as the probably greatest bullshit artist in American history, even he knows people are going to see this as a loss, as nothing more than a devastating strategic loss and one of the greatest blunders in history. So, you know, I think it's fairly undeniable. And this latest, you know, okay, well, we're not going to do the weapon sales to Taiwan at China's request, by the way. We're just got to go along with what they want at this point because we're in such a position of weakness. It's just a sign of a new reality.
- [63:00]
Sagar Enjeti
Iran is the excuse, but it's also the truth. Like it's just there's. And is there something we do about it? Yeah, we would have to basically Manhattan Project our defense industrial base. Here's the problem. It's not a horrible idea, but it would be a horrible idea under the current political regime because, and I'm not just talking about Trump, I'm talking about both of them because under the current political regime, what we know is that let's say some neo liberal Democrat or Trump, the neocon Republican, if you give them more weapons, they're gonna use it for more shit like Iran and Israel. The whole point would be to have a sensible strategic defense and say we're gonna use this to protect us and to protect Japan and to protect South Korea and maybe Taiwan maybe.
- [63:41]
Krystal Ball
Right.
- [63:41]
Sagar Enjeti
Which even then it is like a law is basically a dream. But we wanna make sure that it doesn't get invaded or at least we maintain some strategic connection to make sure we can get all these chips which are deeply valuable. All this democracy, it's bullshit and everybody knows it. But even that under the current regime, like we know that if we put $1.5 billion into our Pentagon budget, the vast majority of it will be squandered into the mansions of Northern Virginia and for more high tech weapon systems which either don't work or are easily defeated or penetrated by a $20,000 drone. We have no creativity, we have no wartime mindset. Then the people at the top who talk the way that I do do are like the CEO of Palantir, right, who have a shit ton to gain from some more defense spending at some very dubious and problematic expense. So I don't even see a political constituency which is capable of solving this question like period without a dramatic rewriting of the entire global foreign policy elite. And it's terrifying, honestly, because it's theoretical. We're just talking about it. But the realities of what this means in the future are going to be serious humiliations abroad. Being at the genuine, really being at the mercy of other great powers. Nobody alive in the United States today has ever lived under a regime like that. We have not lived that way in almost 100 years. And it's, I mean, look, you know, you can read books, it usually leads to clashes and fires and genocides and death and Destruction. It's not good.
- [65:16]
Krystal Ball
Well, and this is why I continue to be concerned about nuclear weapons, because we haven't experienced a hegemonic decline in the nuclear age.
- [65:24]
Sagar Enjeti
No, we haven't.
- [65:25]
Krystal Ball
And Trump's psychotic. Like, you don't have any idea what this guy will do. It's impossible to predict, you know, what insane maneuvers he will take next. And so, you know, is it possible that he breaks the nuclear taboo in order to protect his fragile ego and avoid, you know, in his mind, avoid holding the L that he has to hold because of this Iran war? Like, I don't think that that's preposterous. That's why that's so. And Israel obviously nuclear armed as well, and completely psychotic. So it's a very dangerous world that we live in. And multipolarity was coming regardless of whether it was going to be Trump or Kamala or whoever else comes after them. But there could have been a transition that did not.
- [66:08]
Sagar Enjeti
Circumstances matter.
- [66:09]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, absolutely. And, and you know, what we're risking is a complete collapse. I had someone say to me, you know, we're flirting with a potential like Soviet Union collapse level of degradation, you know, is that guaranteed? No, but that's the sort of level of catastrophe and decline and obvious decline in living standards that we could be facing here in the US because of the way that we are crashing into multipolarity versus having some sort of negotiated transition that would result in a lot less chaos and pain.
- [66:41]
Sagar Enjeti
And when I say this is the big one, you won't see it right now. What you're gonna see is the ground for when the next big one happens. And people are like, holy shit. It's like the Suez moment. Right? That's why what happened with Suez, it happened after nearly a decade of the post World War II era where the UK was generally declining in power and they empowered empire was collapsing and everybody including the UK was like, my God, we have no power anymore. But the signs were all there. I mean, what we're saying is that it's all right here, it has been laid out. And then either a Taiwan crisis, which crisis, I mean, what would it look like? We don't really know. A vote for reunification or some sort of pressuring sanctions regime. Who knows, some sort of crisis between Japan and South Korea could be North Korea. I've always thought North Korea is like this sleeping giant in this one, in some sort of global rewriting event just because of the nuclear problem and now these problems with the United States of security guarantee. And China has some sort of a guarantor. But that's when everybody, everybody will wake up to that one. As of right now, you know, most people are just going to the store. $454.50 a gallon. Oh, that sucks. It's like, you know, if you open your eyes to how it is, it's really, really, really bad.
- [68:11]
Bethenny Frankel
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- [69:10]
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- [69:40]
Martha Stewart
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- [70:57]
Bethenny Frankel
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