5/28/25: Trump Halts Student Visas, Shots Fired At Gaza Aid Center, Tim Pool Bill Maher Love Fest

Summary

Podcast Summary: Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar (May 28, 2025)

Release Date: May 28, 2025
Episode Title: Trump Halts Student Visas, Shots Fired At Gaza Aid Center, Tim Pool Bill Maher Love Fest
Hosts: Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti
Platform: iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction

In this episode of Breaking Points, hosts Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti tackle a series of pressing and controversial topics, including the Trump administration's pause on student visas, the tragic events surrounding a Gaza aid center, and a heated discussion between Tim Pool and Bill Maher. The conversation delves deep into policy implications, international relations, and the current socio-political climate in the United States and the Middle East.

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1. Trump Administration Halts Student Visas

The episode opens with a critical examination of the Trump administration's recent decision to temporarily pause all student visa issuances. This move has sparked significant debate and concern within educational institutions and among international students.

Key Points:

• Policy Announcement:
  Saagar Enjeti highlights that over a million students on visas are affected, with approximately 30% of Harvard's student body being international. This has immediate implications for elite institutions that rely heavily on foreign talent.

• Government Justification:
  Krystal Ball criticizes the administration's stance, suggesting that the pause is a retaliatory measure against students who voice dissent regarding U.S. and Israeli policies.

  [06:58] Krystal Ball: "So when we identify lunatics like these, we take away their student visa. No one's entitled to a student visa... we're kicking them out of our country."

• Impact on Universities:
  Krystal Ball argues that the reduction in international students undermines the meritocratic nature of American universities and limits opportunities for both foreign and American students.

  [10:05] Krystal Ball: "I can't tell anyone to not apply to Harvard or any other institution in the U.S. but frankly, I do understand that people think twice about coming here..."

• Administration's Vetting Process:
  Saagar Enjeti explains that the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) claims Harvard is non-compliant with new social media vetting requirements, leading to strict scrutiny of applicants' online presence.

  [10:57] Saagar Enjeti: "The administration was citing social media posts and mass data scrapes... it's about Israel."

Notable Quotes:

Krystal Ball [06:58]: "This is a full, full scale attack on free speech in this country."

Saagar Enjeti [16:32]: "It could be treating people like the administration treated Rameza Ozturk... and it could be doing that indefinitely."

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2. Tragedy at Gaza Aid Center

The discussion shifts to the harrowing events at a Gaza aid distribution center, raising serious concerns about the intentions behind humanitarian aid in conflict zones.

Key Points:

• Aid Distribution Issues:
  Krystal Ball details how the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation (GHF), allegedly backed by Israel, set up inefficient aid distribution centers designed to depopulate northern Gaza.

  [32:16] Krystal Ball: "They set up just four distribution centers for 2 million people... Apaches started firing on the crowd. It was a complete catastrophe."

• Human Rights Violations:
  Reports indicate that individuals seeking aid were detained or disappeared, suggesting misuse of humanitarian efforts for political or military purposes.

  [38:41] Krystal Ball: "They tell him, we haven't seen him since the beginning of this war... they've arrested him and detained him."

• Government Response:
  Tammy Bruce, Press Secretary for the State Department, addresses criticisms but downplays the severity, focusing instead on the arrival of aid.

  [38:55] Tammy Bruce: "Aid and food are moving into Gaza at a massive scale... this process is working."

• Contradictory Statements:
  Sagar Enjeti points out inconsistencies in the administration's claims, noting the absence of evidence supporting allegations that Hamas is diverting aid.

  [47:26] Sagar Enjeti: "Israel claims Hamas is stealing aid, but privately, they never provided evidence for these claims."

Notable Quotes:

Krystal Ball [32:16]: "What do you need to take that to? Something edible, like water and an energy source, which are also extremely hard to come by deliberately."

Tammy Bruce [38:55]: "It's not an uncomplicated situation... the story is that aid and food is moving into Gaza at a massive scale."

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3. Energy Industry and Trump's Big Bill

The hosts discuss the Trump administration's significant energy bill, which has profound implications for both clean and fossil fuel industries.

Key Points:

• Energy Bill Impact:
  The bill aims to overhaul the energy production infrastructure, affecting companies across the spectrum, including giants like ExxonMobil.

  [05:01] Krystal Ball: "The entire energy production infrastructure is getting whacked by this Bill to the point where ExxonMobil is like, wait a minute, what are you doing?"

• Industry Reaction:
  An official from the traditional energy sector shares insights into how the bill is affecting operations and future plans.

  [05:50] Krystal Ball: "Not just clean energy that it takes a sledgehammer to. The entire energy production infrastructure is getting whacked."

Notable Quotes:

Saagar Enjeti [05:02]: "Big, brutal bill. Because it's not just clean energy that it takes a sledgehammer to."

Krystal Ball [05:01]: "This is really bad."

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4. Elon Musk’s Stance on Dogecoin and the Trump Administration

The conversation touches upon Elon Musk's critical views on the Trump administration and its relationship with Dogecoin.

Key Points:

• Musk's Critique:
  Saagar Enjeti notes that Elon Musk has become more vocal in his criticism, appearing on CBS Sunday Morning to discuss how the spending bill undermines Dogecoin and reflects broader frustrations with the administration.

• Implications for Crypto and Politics:
  Musk's comments highlight the intersection of cryptocurrency markets and political policies, suggesting potential volatility and shifts in public perception.

Notable Quotes:

Krystal Ball [05:57]: "You're about to buy more Teslas again."

Saagar Enjeti [05:59]: "Yeah. Yes. I'm long Teslas all of a sudden."

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5. Tim Pool and Bill Maher Conversation on Islam

The episode wraps up with a contentious exchange between Tim Pool and Bill Maher, focusing on Islam and its portrayal in contemporary discourse.

Key Points:

• Islamophobia Debate:
  Krystal Ball critiques Bill Maher's stance on Islam, arguing that his views are unfounded and promote intolerance.

  [55:52] Krystal Ball: "That's why the far left started to really hate me is because I call out Islam as what it is, extremely illiberal."

• Historical Context:
  The hosts discuss the historical interactions between Islam and Western societies, challenging the notion that Islam is inherently oppressive or incompatible with Western values.

• Impact on Public Perception:
  The conversation highlights how such discussions influence public opinion and policy, potentially fostering division and misunderstanding.

Notable Quotes:

Tim Pool [55:52]: "I'm proudly Islamophobic. He really, really hates Islam."

Krystal Ball [58:56]: "The Quran, there's the Bible, and they're both full of nonsense. But we have learned to wink at the Bible in the West."

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Conclusion

In this episode, Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti provide a critical lens on the Trump administration's policies affecting student visas, the controversial handling of humanitarian aid in Gaza, significant shifts in the energy sector, and the contentious interplay between media figures and sensitive religious topics. Their analysis underscores the complexities of contemporary politics and international relations, urging listeners to consider the broader implications of governmental actions and societal narratives.

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Transcript

[Krystal Ball]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

I've never felt like this before. It's like you just get me.

[Krystal Ball]

I feel like my true self with you. Does that sound crazy?

[Sagar Enjeti]

And it doesn't hurt that you're gorgeous. Okay, that's it. I'm taking you home with me. I mean, you can't find shoes this good just anywhere. Find a shoe for every you from brands you love like Birkenstock, Nike, Nike, Adidas and more at your DSW store or dsw.com hey, guys, Sagar and Krystal here.

[Krystal Ball]

Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show. This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else. So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today, and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad, free.

[Sagar Enjeti]

And all put together for you every.

[Krystal Ball]

Morning in your inbox.

[Sagar Enjeti]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see [e-mail].

[Krystal Ball]

All right. Happy Wednesday. Welcome to Breaking Points.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I was just going to say, we are in the habit of saying welcome to Counterpoints, but this is not Breaking Points. It's all Breaking Points.

[Krystal Ball]

We're going to create a little artificial scarcity around the show, Counterpoints to increase its value over time.

[Sagar Enjeti]

No one knows what these mugs will go for in 10 years.

[Krystal Ball]

Actually, you can still get them, but there might only be like 11 left. So if you go into the old Breaking Points shop, you're Gonna find counterpoints, mugs, which doesn't make any sense, which is why we're kind of blending them all together.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It'll be fun.

[Krystal Ball]

There you go. Yeah, totally. So we're gonna start by talking about this across the board pause on student visas that Marco Rubio and Trump announced yesterday. Then we're gonna get into the horrific debacle yesterday. The predictable debacle that was the attempt by this Israeli US quote unquote humanitarian organization to deliver aid. Will talk about whether or not it was this was exactly as expected and intended and what it means going forward. The images that came out of this are going to be indelible, I think an indelible stain on the US and Israel's approach to the region. Kamala to Palestinians. Kamala Harris hit the speaking tour, but privately. Some of it leaked.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, some of it leaked.

[Krystal Ball]

That'll be fun.

[Sagar Enjeti]

She was at the Australian real estate conference getting paid, presumably. So we have leaked.

[Krystal Ball]

No, no, no. That's a pro bono one for. She just loves the Australian real estate industry.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It's a deep passion of hers.

[Krystal Ball]

It is. Who's not passionate about that? We cannot not talk about Jordan Peterson agreeing to be one Christian debating 20 like 20 year old atheists.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's perfect.

[Krystal Ball]

And emerging completely eviscerated.

[Sagar Enjeti]

But also getting the video title changed. We'll get into all of it.

[Krystal Ball]

You lost the debate so badly they had to change the video title.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It goes about as you would expect it to go. So we will have some really fun clips from that. And then we're gonna be talking about Trump's pardoning spree over the last couple of days. Not only the Chrisley family, which was announced yesterday. So Todd and Julia Chrisley from the Real Show, Chris Lee knows best. Trump said he was pardoning them yesterday in the Oval Office. But a couple of other pretty interesting pardons. Ryan just in recent days, a sheriff and a nursing home executive looks a little suspicious to say the least.

[Krystal Ball]

And then we're going to finish by interviewing an official from the energy industry and not just the clean energy industry. This is the dirty energy industry. Although he, his company tries to make the dirty, the fossil fuel industry a little bit cleaner. He's going to talk about the industries react. The energy industry across the board's reaction to Trump's big, brutal bill. Big beautiful bill, whatever you want to call it.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Big, brutal bill.

[Krystal Ball]

Big brutal bill. Because it's not just clean energy that it takes a sledgehammer to. The entire energy production infrastructure across the board is getting whacked by this Bill to the point where ExxonMobil is like, wait a minute, what are you doing? This is really bad.

[Sagar Enjeti]

And lastly on that, speaking of the big, beautiful Bill, Elon Musk is making an even say, harsher break with Doge and the Trump administration. He's going to be on CBS Sunday MORNING this week. And so teasers that have been released show him saying that he fleshes out his point about how the big beautiful spending bill undermines Doge. He's recently said he feels like the Trump administrations are that Doge became the Trump administration's whipping boy. So we will have some updates on that front as well.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. Kind of sad that the moment that Musk says something decent is also the moment that he's totally lost all his juice.

[Sagar Enjeti]

You're about to buy more Teslas again.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. Yes. I'm long Teslas all of a sudden. Yeah.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, let's start with the news about student visas. We can go ahead and roll this first element. Secretary of State Marco Rubio was in a Cabinet meeting with President Trump yesterday and a cable had leaked, saying that the administration was pausing student visas as it prepared a social media vetting system. And we've covered news about the social media vetting system here. You've probably seen this in the student visa controversies that, you know, the administration was citing social media posts, but also was citing its new efforts to do mass data scrapes for these social media posts. It appears that this is culminating in what is said to be a temporary pause in all student visas. There are more than a million students on student visas as of this school year. So here's Secretary of State Rubio explaining the policy yesterday at the White House.

[Krystal Ball]

So when we identify lunatics like these, we take away their student visa. No one's entitled to a student visa. The press covers student visas like there's some sort of birthright. No, a student visa is like me inviting you into my home. If you come into my home and put all kinds of crap on my couch, I'm going to kick you out of my house. And so, you know, that's what we're doing with our country, thanks to the president.

[Sagar Enjeti]

All right, Ryan. So again, more than a million students that are going to be affected, 30% of Harvard, roughly. We have Trump talking about this as well, but we can put the tear sheet up on before we get to Trump. This is a two an Axio story on the policy, but it is about 30% of Harvard students. Some schools have massive foreign student populations for reasons we can get into. They can pay generally Full tuition. So it's helpful on that front. But also, we've long been a magnet, obviously for the world's top talent. American higher education has. Now, people don't always stay here, but many do. And a lot of great American companies were founded through people who came here for school and stayed and then created some amazing stuff in the United States. Here's Donald Trump from over the weekend talking about student visas. This is a three.

[Krystal Ball]

Part of the problem with Harvard is that there are about 31%, almost 31% of foreigners coming to Harvard. We give them billions of dollars, which is ridiculous. We do grants, which we're probably not going to be doing much grants anymore to Harvard, but they're 31%. But they refuse to tell us who the people are. We want to know who the people. Now, a lot of the foreign students, we wouldn't have a problem with. I'm not going to have a problem with foreign students, but it shouldn't be 31%. It's too much because we have Americans that want to go there and to other places, and they can't go there because you have 31% foreign. Now, no foreign government contributes money to Harvard. We do. So why are they doing so many, number one. Number two, we want a list of those foreign students and we'll find out whether or not they're okay. Many will be okay, I assume. And I assume with Harvard, many will be bad.

[Sagar Enjeti]

And lastly, let's toss this clip of an international student at Harvard discussing the climate for international students. Right now, there are very few international.

[Krystal Ball]

Students who are even willing to speak to the media, who are willing to just post something on social media or participate at a protest because we've seen people have had their visas revoked for that reason. But also some examples of students who have been snatched off the street and put in detention centers in, in Louisiana. What the Trump administration is doing right now is a full, full scale attack on free speech in this country. And, you know, we simply have to resist it and we have to fight it with whatever means possible. Given that climate that you describe and the persecution of some universities, would you feel confident, would you be allowed to go on and maybe study a postdoctoral at another university? I mean, I honestly don't know.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I'm very happy that I've made the.

[Krystal Ball]

Decision to leave the country and that I don't have to live with this uncertainty. And I know that that's how many international students are feeling right now. So what would be your advice for people who might be watching, who are thinking about A degree in the United States. I think it's incredibly hard because I've had such a great experience here, and these have been the best four years of my life. So it would break my heart to tell anyone to not apply to Harvard or any other institution in the U.S. but frankly, I do understand that people think twice about coming here, because why would you apply to a university in America if you don't even know whether you will be able to finish your degree? If you can't study what you want, if you can't, you know, speak out about political issues because you're afraid that you might be put in a detention center and deported, then I truly understand why people are worried.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So the Trump comments and the comments from that student came in response to, obviously, the administration's decision to prevent Harvard from accepting foreign students, period. That happened. We covered that on last Friday's show. But that was a decision that came last week from Kristi Noem, technically, because DHS oversees a vetting process, and they say Harvard is not complying with the vetting process. And then made a list of pretty wild demands, intentionally wild demands that Harvard wouldn't be be able to meet about foreign students. And Harvard obtained a restraining order in court shortly after the administration came down with that decision. So, Ryan, right now we don't have a lot of details about what this would look like, but it almost certainly is about Israel, because that's everything we've seen so far.

[Krystal Ball]

The vetting Rubio was putting it in the same framework. Yes, that look, it. It's a privilege to come here as a student, but basically he's saying, if you're going to protest Israel, then we don't want. Then we don't want you in the country. Now, the thing he said right after that clip, he's like, my wife and I want to announce something. What he says is he's just so proud that University of Florida's basketball team won a championship. Two of their five starters are on student visas. You know, one from Nigeria, one from Australia. The Australian is pulled himself out of the NBA draft. Alex Conan is going to go back to Florida, he said, but now maybe he won't. He's like, all right, forget it. I guess I'm going to go. I'll play in the NBA. If I'm not welcome here, I guess I'll go play in another professional basketball league somewhere else and make much less money.

[Sagar Enjeti]

They'll either vet all of the athletes first and be like, green light, you guys are fine, or they will just not even Ever look at the athletes, social media?

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. It's like, okay, well Joel Embiid, you know, he's, you know, he's from Africa, but he's got some French citizenship. The French wanted him to play in the Olympics for them, but he wouldn't because he didn't like France's kind of colonial approach to Africa. Are we okay with that? Like, tell us what you're allowed to say about foreign countries.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Right. And we have no idea how they're.

[Krystal Ball]

You can criticize France, right? I assume, although they're a very close ally of ours. So you can just make a list. What are the countries you can't criticize because you can criticize the United States. Right? That's okay. And is it Israel and. Or is it just Israel? Right. Why don't we have Israel do the vetting? Like, why are US Taxpayers funding all of the kind of social media research to find out if these 17 year olds said anything positive about Palestinians when it's for the benefit of Israel. Israel has all of this cyber tech. Just let, just let Israel run our State Department and run our dhs and they can tell us who's allowed to come in the country. Like, why are we paying for that? We'll send them the money anyway, so I guess we're still paying for it. Nevermind. I thought I was trying to help us. I can't figure it out.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Like, in theory, I actually am not at all opposed to the idea. I mean, so what this is of.

[Krystal Ball]

The US vetting its students based on what they think about Israel?

[Sagar Enjeti]

No, I'm very opposed to that. In theory, I'm not opposed to that.

[Krystal Ball]

I'm like, wait a minute.

[Sagar Enjeti]

No, no, no, in theory, I'm not opposed to the idea of saying, okay, we should have a social media check of whether or not people are openly saying, like Crystal and I interviewed this guy Mamadou Tal from Cornell, and if you went and went back and looked at his social media as he was applying, he was talking about how awful the American empire is, et cetera, et cetera. And. But fine, that's a perfectly fair free speech argument to make. But is that someone you prioritize over another person who maybe actually loves the United States, wants the United States to be better, and is like deeply passionate about. There are a lot of people like that and a lot of them come over on student visas and have great lives and productive lives in the United States of America and do make the country better. So I don't, I'm not like in theory opposed. So maybe we should be checking what people who have social media are saying in the context, but we have zero idea from the State Department right now about what they're looking for. And our best guess, based on the framing that Secretary Rubio adopted, as you said there, Ryan, and how they've been doing this so far, is that they're looking for op eds like Ramaza Ozturk's op ed for the Tufts student newspaper that was promoting a BDS policy at.

[Krystal Ball]

Her school, which passed, like, the Senate. It was so stupid. Ramesa wrote was one of four authors supporting a senate, a campus senate resolution that said something about Israel, which passed, like. And I don't know if you've ever been involved with, like, student governance, like, to get some, like, yeah, they're to the left of the average, like, town council, but to get them all together to agree to a resolution, it's not gonna be like fire and brimstone. The op ed that she got jailed for passed the student senate. It passed anyway.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Completely ridiculous.

[Krystal Ball]

So what else on this?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, we don't know. That's the other thing is we don't know how temporary the pause is, because as we're sitting here right now, this could apply to millions of people for years to come. It could last a month. And that's the thing with the Trump administration. It could last a month, and it could be screening for, like, in theory, it could last a month, and it could be screening for genuine terrorists or Hamas sympathetic. Yeah. Which they should be doing.

[Krystal Ball]

Or.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Or it could be treating people like the administration treated Rameza Ozturk, and we really don't know. And it could be doing that indefinitely, because right now, it's a temporary pause. So this could mean the next three years of the Trump administration, there's a de facto ban on student visas, or it could mean a month from now they have their social media policies in place and they're stringently applying them and screening for people who are pro Palestine. But it's not a de facto ban for the next three years. It's hard to say, but given how they've handled cases like Ozterk's, they don't really get the benefit of the doubt on that.

[Krystal Ball]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

Of what I would say is, you know, a couple of things on this. First, if his issue is actually access to colleges and universities, one, something like more than a dozen colleges and universities went under last year and the year before and we're in a crisis of colleges and universities going under, like they're going bankrupt. So there's fewer places for people to go.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Your alma mater struggles with that, don't they?

[Krystal Ball]

St. Mary's College in Maryland. They're doing okay. I mean, they're a state school. A lot of the more private universities, like the smaller private universities are going under.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Even state schools are having enrollment problems.

[Krystal Ball]

Y. An enrollment problem because of birth rates. Like, there's a baby bust that is now starting to move in to university. So it's causing a huge problem for them. And now you're gonna say that. Let's say foreign students can't come either on the question of the taxpayer funding. Yes. Like taxpayers are funding these colleges and universities. Harvard gets a lot of money. The money that the Trump administration is cutting off from Harvard is specifically earmarked for grants and research because it is one of the great research universities in the history of the world. You know, 400 year old university. It produces research in all varieties of fields that is then beneficial to the entire world. So it's not that we are subsidizing the foreign students tuition.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Mm.

[Krystal Ball]

It's the opposite. The foreign students, for the most part, are coming with grants from their home countries. So it's not true that no foreign countries are funding Harvard because there are grants coming from these.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Subsidizing tuition.

[Krystal Ball]

Subsidizing tuition here. Or these are the wealthier kids from around the world who are paying the sticker price at Harvard, which.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Which is often not meritocratic, to be fair. I mean, a lot of those kids are buying their way into this.

[Krystal Ball]

Same with the American kids who get.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, I mean, buying their way in there. But it does undermine the argument that everyone who's coming from. And I just said this because I do believe this to be true, but that we are a magnet for the top, top, top talent. Sometimes there are foreign students who are buying their seats at these universities too.

[Krystal Ball]

Right. But that's our system. We are not a meritocracy. Like, we are a place where you can buy your way to the top.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Although we're more of a meritocracy.

[Krystal Ball]

We say we're a meritocracy.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I mean, it's a lot worse elsewhere.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, maybe. In any event, they're not morons. Like, you have to pass a certain threshold, and lots of people pass this certain threshold. And then. Yeah, a lot of these foreign students, they're going to pay the full freight. They're going to subsidize it. So I would also. Let's say, let's take Disney World for Example gets enormous amounts of taxpayer money. Enormous. In fact, DeSantis tried to take some and look what happened to him.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's right. Well, actually, he won that. The Reedy Creek thing.

[Krystal Ball]

Not really. And they still get enormous amounts of tax breaks.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, that's absolutely true.

[Krystal Ball]

When you go to Disney World or Disneyland, you're going to see enormous numbers of foreigners there. It is annoying to stand in long lines and a lot of the people in front of you in the line are foreign. So wouldn't it make just as much sense, which, by which I mean zero sense at all, for Donald Trump to say Americans pay to support Disney World, and so therefore, Americans should be the only ones that get to go to Disney World? That's where his logic takes you. And you might be watching this and be like, yeah, that. That's fair. I agree with it. If so, you are a moron. Like, that's crazy, because what you are saying is that we should not be a great country. We should not be a country that people want to come to. We should be a country where, if you're a very good basketball player, you hope that you get recruited and go to Lithuania, rather than being a great Lithuanian player and get recruited and come to the United States. You are welcome to be one of those countries. You can be an average or below average country where people want to leave. That's a choice that is available to the United States, which is currently heading towards that on purpose. So congratulations, you can have shorter lines at Disney World, but just play that out. What's going to happen?

[Sagar Enjeti]

So maybe we do disagree a little bit, because I think there's a long overdue renegotiation of the relationship between the federal government and higher education. And maybe this is actually more of a middle ground than a disagreement, because I don't agree with all the particulars of how it could play out. I don't know how they actually intend to play it out, and that's a problem with a lot of their policies, is that they're intentionally messing around.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. And the thing that makes me angry is that they have me sitting here defending Harvard. Like, if they want to take $3 billion away from Harvard for its research grants and give it to the 50 state schools, like the flagship state schools around the country, be my guest. Please do that. That would be amazing. You know, screw Harvard. I'm not here defending Harvard. The idea that you're going to take that money out and then you're going to do a $7.5 trillion tax cut for the rich, like that is suicidal.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, they're also doing endowment taxes that have higher education freaked out. So Harvard has a $50 billion endowment and their money is absolutely fungible. And I do think that a lot of these schools coast off the largest.

[Krystal Ball]

Of the tax endowment, give it to the University of Michigan, Wisconsin Trade schools, St. Mary's College of Maryland or.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, yeah, you're right, these are the trade schools. Yeah, yeah. Which is something that Trump sort of was trolling with Harvard as well.

[Krystal Ball]

But, but to destroy Harvard just so you can do tax cuts is suicidal.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Or just to destroy, just to destroy.

[Krystal Ball]

It for the sake of Israeli propaganda.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Here in United States. Right. For the sake of like our Middle east policy, whatever that is. According to them and according to whomever takes over, by the way, which is part of the reason that the Obama administration was seen as egreg by conservatives is that they were using the strings attached to federal funding to coerce different policies out of Title ix. And it was just happened in dear colleague letters, so like little missives from the Secretary of Education that could be fired off at a moment's notice. And conservatives were really opposed to doing that because it was this expansion of Title IX policy from Washington D.C. that affected every different school. So I think there's, there's some of that to be opposed to and to not have double standards. I think absolutely there's some of that going on here. I do though, generally think some of this money is the same way. I feel about a lot of the cabinet agencies. I do think if you' rethehere are strings attached to public money. And I don't have a problem with the duly elected president and his administration saying that there are strings attached to the money. But they should also realize that it's a mutually beneficial arrangement for a reason and the mutually beneficial part of that still exists. Like Harvard acting badly doesn't mean the entire arrangement is a disaster in and of itself.

[Krystal Ball]

And what's their big complaint? That they didn't arrest more student protestors?

[Sagar Enjeti]

I mean, it depends on who you're talking to.

[Krystal Ball]

This 400 year old university, right?

[Sagar Enjeti]

It depends on who you're talking to. I mean, if you're talking to Alan Dershowitz, that's probably it.

[Krystal Ball]

If you're talking to me. Oh yeah, they did that 300 page report. There was somebody who said that once they were posting on Instagram that they were supportive of Israel. Some of their friends ghosted them that type of complaint. And that literal complaint made it into this report on antisemitism. And so if we Just pull enough research grants from Harvard. We will pressure people to go on walks with their friends who support genocide. Like, like, hey, look, you, you said you would go on a walk Tuesday morning and I showed up. You weren't even there. I just had to walk by myself.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I think it depends on who you're talking to. For some people, they would basically be in that camp as you just described.

[Krystal Ball]

So whoever you, you ghosted your friends. Now you destroyed Harvard.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well done.

[Krystal Ball]

All you had to do was just like not talk about the genocide.

[Sagar Enjeti]

On the other hand, that's what they.

[Krystal Ball]

Were trying to do, by the way, is just not talking about the genocide by like just being like, you know what, this is your thing. You support this. I don't. So let's just not be friends. That is apparently bigotry. I mean, that needs the state to intervene.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, I mean, I could go down.

[Krystal Ball]

Donald Trump will not countenance such ghosting.

[Sagar Enjeti]

He would never treat a friend.

[Krystal Ball]

No, he would not.

[Sagar Enjeti]

But it depends who you're talking to. If you're talking to some people, then yes, they would say something along those lines. If you're talking to other people, they would cite Aaron Sibarium's couple of year record of excellent reporting on how Harvard's DEI policies have genuinely eroded what was already an eroded system of meritocracy at Harvard. And there's some really legitimate stuff to take issue with there. If this is the pressure campaign and it lasts for a week, then it lasts for a week. If this lasts for three years and is an indefinite pause on student visas, not just at Harvard, but basically everywhere. I mean legally.

[Krystal Ball]

Except they're just replacing DEI with one marginalized group. Yes, supporters of Israel. Not even Jewish students. Because if you're a Jewish student who opposes the genocide, then you are bad and bigoted.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Anti Semitic. You're self loathing.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, the only. So it's dei but for supporters of Israel, Unapologetic supporters of Israel.

[Sagar Enjeti]

We'll see how it's implemented. Many such cases as Donald Trump would say about his early policies. In fact, a Financial Times columnist. Did you see this? Coined the term taco. Trump always chickens out on tariffs. And it's just these policies. It's the Jackson Pollock approach to governance. You just actually he's making this mess and hoping that it turns out beautifully.

[Krystal Ball]

Right. And this briefing that Rubio, where Rubio is going on about this is coming as Trump was chickening out on European.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Literally. Yes. In the middle of a cabinet meeting where he backed off the 50% at.

[Krystal Ball]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

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[Krystal Ball]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

Ryan, let's move on to Gaza. Lot of updates from the Middle East. Let's start by playing B1 and Ryan, maybe you can describe a little bit of what we're seeing on the screen.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, so the this organization absurdly named the Gaza Humanitarian foundation, which is which according to Yair Lapid, you know, foreign Prime Minister of Israel is funded by Israel. It's a kind of a joint US Israeli organization which is trying to supplant unrwa, the World Food Program and all the other humanitarian aid organizations that that bring in assistance. What they did is they flipped delivery of humanitarian aid on its head like the way that the established organizations do it to make sure. That they don't get food riots is that you need to kind of. You need to flood the area with aid, and you need to have it decentralized at lots of different places. And you need to have it near where people are so that it's as convenient as possible. And you have as short of lines as possible, because you don't want hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands. Definitely not hundreds of thousands of people who haven't eaten for long, haven't had a good meal probably in 20 months. You don't want them all congregating around this one particular area. But the GHF is not designed to efficiently distribute humanitarian aid. Its design is explicitly for depopulating northern Gaza. Like, Netanyahu has said out loud that the goal of this organization is to entice Palestinians into the south of Gaza, into particular areas where they have to then present their IDs and leave their homes, at which point they will not be allowed to return to their homes. Like, he has said this out loud. It has not leaked audio. He's been very clear that that's the goal of this. So therefore, they set up just four distribution centers for 2 million people who hadn't. Who haven't had aid distributed since March 2nd. And they set up, you saw that zigzag barbed wire fence. They set that corral up as their way because they understood that there would be large, desperate crowds there. Of course, that did not hold people back. People had to walk 10, 15 km to get to this place as well, which immediately means, who are you going to get? Like, the people who are in the best possible shape. Not great shape, but the best possible shape. If you're desperately malnourished, you can't walk 15 kilometers through the sun to get to this place. And so then. So the desert people broke through the fence, Apache Hill, as you saw in that video there, Apache helicopters start firing on the crowd. Nobody was killed, thankfully, but it was a complete catastrophe. Then what people got were these little boxes that had flour, dried pasta, and some dried beans. Now, think about that. It's better than having nothing in your hands. But what do you need to take that to? Something edible, like water and an energy source, which are also extremely hard to come by deliberately. So humanitarian aid organization was saying, this is deeply inappropriate. Like, this is not the thing you would give to malnourished people. First of all, it's not the kind of nourishment that you need. Like, there are very particular types of food packages that you could give to people who haven't had a decent meal for two months and that need to recover their health a little bit. Pasta, beans and rice. That's not it. And you don't want to give somebody something that needs to be cooked with clean water and heat if they don't have clean water and heat. Of course, though, that assumes that any of this is on the up and up, which they have acknowledged it is not. It is about ethnic cleansing, it's about depop, it's about depopulation. The other concern that Palestinians had and which was borne out immediately reported by my colleague Jeremy Scahyn, put this third element up on the screen. This is a statement from Ayat Amawi from the Gaza Relief Committees where he's. If you're watching this, you can pause and read it, but basically what he's describing is that is the situation that I just described. Amawi also reported, and these are the details of it. Amawi also reported that there are reports of people, and they were directly involved with this, who went to get the aid, you know, give the id, run their name gets run through there and the guy gets snatched. A family then gets a phone call from this guy saying, I've been snatched. They want me to ask you. So now we're two degrees of separation away. They want me to ask you about this other person that they're asking about, that's member of this other family's outer orbit. And they tell him, we haven't seen this guy since the beginning of this war. Now, presumably this is somebody that Israel's looking for, presume, like let's say somebody in Hamas or a fighter or some other resistance group. Like, that's the assumption. Because, you know, can't find the guy. You ask his relatives. Can't find the relatives. You ask the relatives, friends. And then so they're. So they snatch the guy, extort him, just to try to find somebody three or four degrees removed from him. And he's like, that's all I can do. Like, they said they haven't seen him, you know, in this long. They're on the phone with him. They're like, okay, come with us. And they just arrest him and detain him. We don't know if he's still alive. We don't know if he's been tortured or what kind of abuse he's suffered at their hands. And this violates one of the top principles of a humanitarian aid organization, which is neutrality, that the aid is not a weapon in pursuit of like, Hamas figures who are 3 or 4 degrees connected. I don't know. I don't know who they were looking for. We don't know. But let's assume it was that. Like that's not what an aid organization is supposed to be doing.

[Sagar Enjeti]

And so this has exploded predictably into an international controversy, ongoing international controversy. Let's roll. I'm going to skip ahead here to B5. This is a clip of press secretary for the State Department, Tammy Bruce, responding to questions yesterday.

[Krystal Ball]

The world has been shocked by what's happened in Gaza over the past few days. The silhouette of a little girl. Well, I said it's been obviously it's.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Been shocked over generations about what's happened in Gaza.

[Krystal Ball]

Absolutely. And that Hamas certainly has refused to stop that violence. But go ahead. So, but just in the past few days, we've seen the silhouette of a little girl trying to flee, burning classrooms surrounding her, killing people around her. We've seen thousands of Palestinians starved by Israel's blockade, herded between fences as they try to get fed today, thousand, excuse me, a doctor who saw nine of her children killed by Israeli bombs. All the while, this administration, of course, as we've seen, has sought to deport students who protest this, including one student who wrote an op ed against this kind of behavior. The administration came in telling Americans it would be more pro peace, more anti war.

[Sagar Enjeti]

This is beginning to sound like a.

[Krystal Ball]

Soliloquy, sir, than the previous. I'm curious. Yes. This very serious issue. And everyone has your question.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes.

[Krystal Ball]

Yes. So please ask it. I wonder how you see this administration being more pro peace or more anti war than the previous administration, given these kinds of horrors that Americans are witnessing.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, you know, it is a dynamic where, as I also just mentioned a little bit ago, we did achieve a ceasefire, something which nobody thought would be possible after the heinousness of October 7th. The nature of what had occurred on that day, the fact that there has to be a new way. The president has stated we have to have new ideas to make a difference so this stops and doesn't go from generation to generation. What we've got here is after I don't know what has it been, three months, a bit over 100 days of President Trump managing to get, I think every warring party, every hostile party against other people on this planet to a table to stop. Now, that's the simple part. Making things happen and making it last is another thing.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Hamas, we did have a ceasefire and.

[Krystal Ball]

Then Hamas decided once again that that was just not going to do. And they continue to do what they do.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Brian, I think you wanted to Toss to another clip as well.

[Krystal Ball]

Andrea Mitchell, lacing it up, has been going to the State Department press briefings. She asked a question about this aid delivery mechanism as well. Why are you using this when you've got Sidney McCain for the World Food Program, you've got the U.N. you've got plenty of people who could do this. Why are you like, what are you even doing here? And she elicited a fascinating response from Tammy. Bruce, look, we can roll B6B here. There's certainly this is something the world is watching, something we've all cared about getting resolved. It is not an uncomplicated situation. This is, however, the first delivery of major aid, if not the only aid we've been hearing for months. I wish that Cindy McCain had spoken up that they had found a way to move food into Gaza because that certainly hadn't been conveyed to us. But now, which, if that's the case, that's great. What I do know is that the people on the ground now, as the number I told you, I think is rather significant, 462,000 meals, you know, that's what we're focused on. And that this is. And I'm not going to address either gossip or complaints or people who knew or weren't included or would do it a different way, or who's shooting at whom. That Hama. It's not Hama. The real story here, the story is that aid and food is moving into Gaza at a massive scale. At this point, when you're looking at 8,000 food boxes, was this going to be like going to the mall or through a drive through? No, it wasn't. This is a complicated environment, and the story is the fact that it's working. I find it difficult that there are people who would go on television shows to complain about a process that is working and moving food into the area. So the idea that it was a mystery that the World Food Program had found a way to get food into Gaza is absurd. Like they. Everybody has been witnessing that for up until March 2, when Israel blocked it. The argument that Israel makes publicly is that, well, Hamas is stealing the aid. The whole reason that we have to blow up the entire system of humanitarian aid delivery in Gaza is that Hamas was stealing it. And we have no obligation to give aid to Hamas just to, like, use against us and sell on the black market. So that's, that's the argument they make publicly. So let's let David Satterfield respond to that. So David Satterfield was the Biden administration official who was responsible for humanitarian. Overseeing humanitarian aid and negotiating with the Israelis over that. According to people in the State Department I talked to, like, Satterfield almost never pushed back on the Israelis. He was a very, very sympathetic figure in 2005. And you guys can Google this. Satterfield was listed in an indictment for leaking. This is under the Bush administration, for leaking classified information to aipac. And to. You can look it up, like, to this, AIPAC was linked up with Israel. So it wasn't just to aipac, but it was classified information. So this is. Now, he was never officially charged. He was never charged. And he defended. He said, what I did was above board and it was not a crime. The point here, this is somebody who is close enough to Israel that it was listed in a 2005 indictment for having least classified information to Israel. So this is not something. In other words, this is not a Hamas sympathizer. This is not even one of these State Department officials who you'd call like an Arabist, which are mostly all gone from the State Department. So that's the context I want you to have when you listen to Satterfield get asked the question is Hamas? Is there any evidence that Hamas is stealing the aid? So let's roll. B6. Hamas was stealing, profiting and diverting the majority of the aid that was coming in. That is Israel's claim. How do you respond to that? No such allegation or evidence in support of allegations like that were ever provided privately by informed Israeli security or political officials. It is a claim which, on the face of it, is not reflected in any of the experience that those involved in the humanitarian effort have seen. Did Hamas benefit politically from its presence at distribution sites to reinforce to the population of Gaza that they remained effective and in place? Certainly they did. Did Hamas take some assistance? Quite likely. But from the UN and INGO channels, which were highly accountable. Whatever aid was ultimately diverted in any fashion by Hamas was minimal compared to the aid that was received by the general population. Now, the same can't be said about aid that came in outside UN or international NGO channels. That's a different matter, and Israel understands that. But we're speaking now of the un. The allegations that the majority. I've heard some claims all of the assistance was seized by Hamas. That has never been made privately to officials involved in this process, nor demonstrated through evidence. What's so fascinating to me about that answer is he's not saying they never provided evidence that Hamas was stealing the aid privately. They never even made that claim. In other words, they know it's not true. They say it publicly because idiots on X will repeat it. But privately, when they're talking to other State Department officials and their counterparts in the relief world, they don't even claim it, let alone provide evidence for it.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, I thought it was helpful nuance when he said. Because he himself wasn't saying that no aid has ever been diverted or looted. Like Hamas just executed four people under the. Like Reuters has this story this morning, and they did it a few weeks ago as well for diverting aid.

[Krystal Ball]

Right.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Which is a. Like that's what Satterfield is saying.

[Krystal Ball]

Israel backed gangs that are like looting drugs and then Hamas is going back after them. Yeah, it's quite an upside down world.

[Sagar Enjeti]

But it's helpful nuance of what he's saying is that it's minimal, whatever is being diverted.

[Krystal Ball]

Right. Because Hamas has minimal. Like Hamas has tens of thousands of fighters.

[Sagar Enjeti]

People are starving.

[Krystal Ball]

In the last 19 months, those fighters have eaten. Yep. Was some of that food that came in. Yeah, of course. No doubt. Like he's saying. Yeah. But the, the accusation made broadly is that they take the aid, everything, they take it all and then they sell it back into the black market at exorbitant prices and then they use that money to then fund their war effort. What are they buying? Like there are no weapons getting in. Like they make all their own weapons underground. So like, even, even that argument falls apart because what are you going to do with cash? Like when you're in a full blockade? Like a lot of reporters in Gaza who have been able to freelance for international organizations and have like decent amounts of money in their bank account, it's like, it's like ash in their hands. It's like, you can't. There's nothing to buy. So setting that all aside. Yes. Have they eaten some of the food that's come in? Yeah, I mean, they've eaten like they're human beings, but yeah. So anyway, if you wanted to know how serious Israel is about that allegation, they never made it privately. And that's according to Satterfield, who was literally an unindicted co conspirator in a Israel conspiracy in 2005.

[Sagar Enjeti]

And we can also roll this clip of the little girl that was being referenced in the question to Tami. Bruce. This is really difficult to watch, but we can roll. This is before. Yeah. You can see this on your screen. Ryan, do you know where this is from?

[Krystal Ball]

And one of these girls, I'm not sure exactly where, but one of these girls, one of the girls lived and is in the hospital. Her. Her entire family has. There she is. Her entire family has been wiped out. And it's just another horrific atrocity in an ongoing series of atrocities. And this is what Netanyahu is pushing against the ceasefire to be able to continue doing this.

[Sagar Enjeti]

And I want to roll B2 as well. Ryan. These are the mercenaries. This is what you're going to see on the screen. And you'll hear this a little bit. Are. So this is from Mohammed Shahada who says those are the American mercenaries running GHF's quote, unquote aid concentration camp in Rafah. One of them speaks in an Iraqi dialect. Most of them served in Iraq and Afghanistan. Some of them with the infamous Blackwater. They each get paid over $33,000 per month. The second clip here, what you're seeing are.

[Krystal Ball]

Is this even an authentic clip? I've seen this one going around. Yeah, go ahead.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Was as. Yeah, so this is from Cassia Akiva, who's at the Daily Wire. So obviously enormously pro Israel population outlet. A source at one of the Gaza distribution sites tells me that Hamas set up a roadblock to prevent Gazans from getting aid. She said they broke through it and were shouting thank you, America. Upon reaching the site.

[Krystal Ball]

Hamas put out a statement saying that that's absurd. Like, they did not put up any checkpoints. They would be bombed. Like, if they did that. Like, that's just. Yeah, that's just. There's just no way that's true. That they set up checkpoints to block people from going there. A, that would turn the population completely against them.

[Sagar Enjeti]

They're already turning against them.

[Krystal Ball]

Right. But, but completely like, okay, so now there's aid here and I can't get through because Hamas is blocking me. A, that's why they wouldn't do that. B, if Hamas is out in the open like that in southern Gaza surrounded by Israeli military, they would. They would bomb them.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I just also wanted to quickly touch on one of the interesting points from Tammy. Bruce, you mentioned that her answer was pretty interesting. In response to Andrea Mitchell. I thought her other answer was pretty interesting as well. That we played. Because when pressed on this question of how is the Trump administration pro peace, more pro peace than the administration before it, she pointed at the ceasefire and she did reference the kind of conscience shocking images coming out of Gaza in the last few days. And that's where this is for the Trump administration, I think going to culminate in something with Trump, maybe Witkoff as well, where they ultimately just have to make a decision. Netanyahu and I think that's coming up in the next couple of weeks. Is it Netanyahu or is it your new. What did he say during the campaign? President of peace. Right. Like, do you want to, you have to at a certain point, as this is coming to a head, make that decision.

[Krystal Ball]

It could even be quicker than that because, yeah, this is, this is moving so fast. So Gaza City, by the way, that was Gaza City. Right.

[Sagar Enjeti]

And they're coasting right now. You know, they're sort of coasting on this feud back and forth in the press. Like the leaks to Barack Ravid that harken back to the Biden administration about how Trump is frustrated and Trump probably is genuinely frustrated with Netanyahu, but it feels like it's coming to a sort of Manichean with me or against me choice in the days ahead.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. And the New York Times reporting that Netanyahu is still agitating to bomb Iran while the negotiations are ongoing. That led to a tense phone call between Trump and Netanyahu that has echoes of the Biden administration too. Bibi, stop. Bibi stopped Netanyahu getting a tongue lashing from angry presidents of the United States and yet continuing to do exactly as he pleases with U.S. weapons and funding. At Ameca Insurance, we know it's more than just a car. It's the two door coupe that was there for your first drive, the hatchback that took you cross country and back, and the minivan that tackles the weekly carpool for the cars you couldn't live without. Trust Ameca Auto Insurance Amica Empathy is our best policy. Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families. With Greenlight, you can send money to kids quickly, set up chores, automate allowances, and keep an eye on what your kids are spending with real time notifications. Kids learn to earn, save and spend wisely. And parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money with guardrails in place. Try Greenlight Risk free today at greenlight.com iheart. When it comes to your oral health, staying ahead of problems is key. That's why Colgate Total has created the Colgate Total Active Prevention System. Built from years of research and clinically proven results, this powerful three product system combines a reformulated toothpaste, an innovative toothbrush with a carefully crafted amount of bristles, over 5,000 of them to be exact, and a refreshing antibacterial mouthwash that work together to help prevent oral health problems like cavities and gingivitis before they start. Why is prevention important? Because plaque builds up by feeding on sugars from the foods and drinks you consume. This plaque releases acids that can damage your enamel and lead to cavities and other oral health problems. But the Colgate Total Active Prevention System helps fight the root cause of those problems. In fact, the three products were designed to work together to be 15 times more effective at reducing bacteria buildup in six weeks starting from week one compared to a non antibacterial fluoride toothpaste and flat trim toothbrush. Get the Colgate Total Active Prevention System today and fight the root cause of oral health problems like cavities and gingivitis. So you can be dentist ready shop now by visiting shop.colgate.com total.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Let'S move on to this conversation between Tim Pool and Bill Maher on a recent edition of Club Random. We have another interesting Tim Pool clip versus Adam Conover that we'll roll right afterwards. But let's start here with B7.

[Krystal Ball]

That's one of the main reasons why the far left started to really hate me is because I call out Islam as what it is, extremely illiberal. That's what's so ironic about liberals being so supportive of Hamas is because you're liberals and these are the people. I'm sorry, but this ideology, Islam, even in its more benign forms, yes, I agree most. The vast majority of Muslims, not terrorists of course, but Islamists, which is the word we use to describe people who are not terrorists but kind of agree with the things terrorists are doing and are for. That's a much higher number. That's many millions of people and even the rank and file. I mean, most Muslim societies live under some form of Sharia law, which no Westerner who thinks that Hamas is so great could ever live under. Your fundamental rights that you take for granted here in America, you would not have, you know, I mean, all the protesters who are protesting in Gaza against Hamas, they've all been killed. They killed protesters, women. I mean, do I have to say anything more than just, just if it was just that issue, how women are treated? Are you fucking kidding me? And the narrative is when I talk to some of these academics, like the anti woke people, they're like, well, it's because they say that Gaza is oppressed. And I'm like, sure, but they're siding with the second biggest religion in the world, which is authoritarian fundamentalist. And I don't care if you practice whatever religion you want to practice. It's fine. But it's strange to me to claim that Islam is oppressed in any meaningful way. Well, I, I do care what you practice, and I fully defend to the death your right to practice whatever religion you want. Just don't lie to me and say all religions are alike. All religions are not alike. And what makes them different mostly is how fundamentalist they are. Yeah, fundamentalist means you actually believe what's in the holy book. I mean, there's the Quran, there's the Bible, and they're both full of nonsense. But we have learned to wink at the Bible in the West. So Tim Pool going on this very bizarre Bill Maher show and knowing. Oh yeah, Bill Maher. Bill Maher's like this. He's proudly Islamophobic. He really, really hates Islam. He hates all religions.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

But he really, really hates Islam. If people are curious about his history and his kind of take on fundamentalist Islam, Google Islamic Renaissance or Islamic Golden Age. Just go do the Wikipedia on that. It's just not the case that there's anything inherently backwards about Islam. And go, while you're going through that, then just jump over to the Christianity and Catholicism Wikipedia page and check how things were going during that period of time.

[Sagar Enjeti]

You and I are going to have to smoke a blunt on Club Random and hash this out.

[Krystal Ball]

I don't think anybody would debate that. I think the best argument would be, well, that, you know, you have to go back to the. That was only 500 years. First 500 years is pretty. It's pretty.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I wouldn't say the first 500 years. There was a pretty violent period at.

[Krystal Ball]

The inception of Islam. Fortunately, no other religion has been linked to any violence around the world.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So, yeah, that rarely ever happens. So what is interesting about that is, even if I disagree with you on that point, I also completely disagree and I think a lot of people increasingly disagree with Bill Maher that there was this neoconservative. And I know he's not technically a neocon, but there was a neoconservative linking intentionally after 911 of political Islam, fundamentalist Islam, with this particular conflict, as though because there are radical. There's political radicalism in Gaza that necessitates a policy that is pro Israel, no matter what Israel wants to do, whenever Israel wants to do it. And that conflation is absurd. And I feel like it's falling apart. The sort of construction that gavethat created public support for policies predicated on that is falling apart right now. And it's falling apart since, you know, after October 7th.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, and I would just say the, this like the Islamism that he's talking about is a fairly recent innovation, like talking about the last hundred years and like a kind of reaction in some quarters to modernity, but actually also partially.

[Sagar Enjeti]

A reaction to the policy of Palestine. A policy from the west towards Palestine after World War II.

[Krystal Ball]

It predates that a little bit, but yes it does. But it's definitely surge post cycle Picot and all that.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, yeah, I mean it's not irrelevant.

[Krystal Ball]

And with the collapse of kind of pan Arab socialism, why does Iran support.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Hamas to some extent? Because it's an extremely important question for a lot of fundamentalists. So it's not irrelevant. And actually you can make the argument that continuing a sort of blanket Czech policy towards Israel actually makes the problem worse.

[Krystal Ball]

Although yeah, Iran supported the resistance from the beginning of the revolution in 79 and Hamas doesn't come around until like the 90s or whatever in 79.

[Sagar Enjeti]

But that's after the creation of modern Israel. Like that's since like that has been baked into it for. Since the creation of Israel.

[Krystal Ball]

And so watching pool, I don't quite understand what's up with this guy. This guy was taking money literally from Russia, right? Unknowingly, but yeah, allegedly unknowingly.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I mean I think it's actually, it's a crazy story.

[Krystal Ball]

He's taking money whether he knew it was from Russia or not. He knew it was money and it was to influence his editorial content. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. That is. So that aside, here he is talking to Adam Conover with one of the most hair brained things I've ever heard.

[Sagar Enjeti]

This is incredible.

[Krystal Ball]

And then she's being like forcibly deported. Do you think that's good for America? Like this is okay. So you know, marginally you think what, what do you think is good even marginally? Like what's the, what's the minor small benefit to America? Do not weigh that our country and rally against it and its interests. And I apply this to you. So what is the, what is the US interest that her writing an op ed Suez Canal. The Suez Canal. Right. The United States. The reason why the US is so. I love these Zeju's people that are like Israel controls the foreign policy. Oh, shut up. The US interest in is with Israel, Egypt and Saudi Arabia has a lot to do with like the Red Sea and the Suez Canal. This is why Donald Trump is obsessed with Panama and Greenland. He wants to control the global trade routes is what America's largely done. This is, that's why I Say it's. It's. It's. What's. It's a gross mischaracterization to claim that an op ed is a threat to national security in that it is in the smallest of senses. Students coming here and telling us to oppose our support with Israel puts. It puts us at risk in terms of the sentiment of a younger generation as to whether or not we'll fund Israel and control the Suez Canal. But. But I asked you if you thought it was good to deport her. That's a marginally. All right, so Suez Canal.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's my new. Anytime you say something, you ask me a question, I'm just gonna sit back and go, suez Canal.

[Krystal Ball]

So if you write an op ed that could have a bank shot. Suez Canal. Suez Canal.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Suez Canal.

[Krystal Ball]

Okay, well, all right. Suez Canal's so important, then lifting the kind of Red Sea blockade of all shipping. Like Egypt's been really suffering with foreign currency coming in because of the Houthi kind of shutdown of shipping lanes. So shouldn't it then be in the US national interest to end the siege of Gaza, create a Palestinian state so that this conflict ends, so that the traffic flows more freely through the Suez Canal, therefore.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's a good point.

[Krystal Ball]

AIPAC is actually the one that is undermining U.S. national security.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's a good point.

[Krystal Ball]

And anybody associated with. With them who's not an American citizen, according to Poole, should be deported.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah. Like, in fairness to Poole and that I've been on his show and I don't really have anything against him, but in fairness to him, I think what he was trying to do is explain the administration's point of view on this, but I don't think that is.

[Krystal Ball]

I doubt that's even accurate. I think their point of view is Canary Mission or one of these other organizations gave us the name Rumesa Ozturk and we arrested her. Done. That's it.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah. No, I think that's true.

[Krystal Ball]

We do what we're told.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, I think that's right.

[Krystal Ball]

Moving on.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Suez Canal. That's just. It's like, watch what happens. Live drinking game. The little neon sign in the corner is Suez Canal from here on out. I know you're probably watching this around noon or 1pm at your desk, but Suez Canal, every time you hear it, take a drink.

[Krystal Ball]

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