6/10/25: Tim Dillon Shreds Palantir, China Cripples US On Minerals, Theo Von Vs JD On Gaza, DNC YT Show Bombs, BBC Censors Documentary

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - Episode Summary (June 10, 2025)

Hosted by Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti, "Breaking Points" delves into pressing political and economic issues, offering incisive analysis and holding power structures accountable. In this episode, the hosts tackle topics ranging from Palantir's political influence to the complexities of the US-China trade war, the dynamics of internal Democratic Party struggles, and media censorship related to the Gaza conflict.

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1. Tim Dillon’s Critique of Palantir and Data Privacy

[03:41] Tim Dillon:
"If you don't have any reservations about Palantir taking everyone's information, I... can't trust you."
Tim Dillon expresses deep skepticism about Palantir's expanding role in government, highlighting concerns over data privacy and potential misuse of aggregated information.

[05:48] Discussion on Palantir's Role:
Krystal and Saagar delve into Palantir’s contract with the Trump administration, scrutinizing its purpose to consolidate data from various agencies—Social Security, IRS, DHS—and integrate it with Palantir's private data repositories. The hosts debate the implications for privacy and governmental overreach.

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2. US-China Trade War and Rare Earth Minerals

[20:00] China’s Dominance in Samarium Production:
"China produces the world's entire supply of samarium. The US and its allies need to rebuild inventories of fighter jets, missiles, and other hardware."
Krystal highlights China's monopolistic control over critical rare earth minerals, emphasizing the vulnerability this creates for the US military supply chain.

[25:30] Industrial Policy Failures:
The hosts discuss the US's inability to develop its own rare earth mineral production, citing historical missteps and the resulting dependency on China. They criticize past efforts, like the failed Washington and Texas projects, for not effectively countering China's dominance.

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3. J.D. Vance, Peter Thiel, and Political Funding

[06:24] J.D. Vance on Palantir and Funding:
"They try to buy me... but they've never asked me for anything."
J.D. Vance addresses his relationship with Peter Thiel, assuring that while Thiel has been a supportive donor, there has been no undue influence or corruption involved.

[12:42] Systemic Influence of Wealthy Donors:
Saagar and Krystal discuss the broader implications of wealthy donors like Peter Thiel on politics, arguing that the symbiotic relationship between billionaires and politicians fosters systemic biases that prioritize corporate interests over public welfare.

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4. Theo Vaughn’s Interview with J.D. Vance on Gaza

[34:32] Theo Vaughn on Genocide in Gaza:
"Gaza, we just cannot not talk about the fact that this is being done on a daily basis with our tax dollars and with weapons that we're buying."
Theo Vaughn brings emotional intensity to the discussion of the Gaza conflict, labeling the situation a genocide and questioning US involvement.

[35:15] J.D. Vance’s Response:
"I don't think it's a genocide... They're trying to destroy this terrorist organization."
Vance counters Vaughn's assertions by framing Israel's actions as a necessary response to terrorism, downplaying the characterization of the conflict as genocide.

[44:07] Further Debate on Iran and Epstein Files:
Vaughn shifts the conversation to allegations linking Donald Trump with the Epstein files, which Vance vehemently denies, maintaining his loyalty to Trump and dismissing the accusations as baseless.

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5. DNC’s Struggles with YouTube and Internal Conflicts

[51:37] DNC’s New YouTube Show Bombs in Viewership:
"7720 views, that's just pathetic."
Krystal criticizes the Democratic National Committee's (DNC) new YouTube venture for its poor performance, contrasting it with successful Democratic media outlets and highlighting the party's ineffective direct-to-audience strategies.

[58:16] Internal DNC Conflicts and David Hogg:
"No one knows who I am... it's really frustrating."
Leaked audio reveals the DNC chair’s frustration with internal conflicts, particularly regarding David Hogg’s efforts to challenge incumbent Democrats, leading to his potential ousting from the party leadership.

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6. BBC Censors Documentary on Gaza Medics

[64:28] BBC Halts Documentary 'Medics Under Fire':
"Medics in Gaza continue to be targeted... The IDF has vowed to kill the spokesperson for the Gaza Civil Defense."
Krystal and Saagar report on the BBC’s decision to indefinitely postpone a documentary that highlights the targeting of medical workers in Gaza. They condemn Israel Defense Forces’ (IDF) actions against medics and a journalist, portraying it as an attack on humanitarian efforts.

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7. Additional Highlights and Commentary

• US Military and Supply Chain Vulnerabilities:
  Krystal emphasizes the need for a comprehensive reevaluation of the US military-industrial complex, pointing out the catastrophic potential of current dependencies on Chinese supply chains.

• Political Messaging and Media Strategy:
  The hosts critique both Democratic and Republican approaches to media engagement, arguing that Democrats are mishandling their digital presence while Republicans successfully leverage existing popular platforms.

• Tariffs and Economic Impact:
  A discussion on the enduring effects of Trump-era tariffs, including their burden on businesses and the broader US economy, highlighting the lack of clear policy direction and its exacerbating impact on supply chains.

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Conclusion

In this episode, Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti provide a critical analysis of significant geopolitical and domestic issues. They challenge the growing influence of private tech companies in government, spotlight the strategic vulnerabilities stemming from the US's reliance on Chinese minerals, and dissect internal party dynamics within the Democratic National Committee. Additionally, they shed light on media censorship and the ongoing humanitarian crisis in Gaza, advocating for greater accountability and systemic reforms. The episode underscores the importance of independent media in uncovering and discussing these complex, high-stakes topics.

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Notable Quotes:

• Tim Dillon [03:41]:
  "If you don't have any reservations about Palantir taking everyone's information, I... can't trust you."

• J.D. Vance [09:04]:
  "He believed in me. He agreed with me on a lot of issues."

• Krystal Ball [16:06]:
  "We need an entire rethinking of the entire US military industrial complex."

• Theo Vaughn [34:32]:
  "Gaza, we just cannot not talk about the fact that this is being done on a daily basis with our tax dollars and with weapons that we're buying."

• J.D. Vance [35:15]:
  "I don't think it's a genocide... They're trying to destroy this terrorist organization."

• DNC Chair [58:16]:
  "No one knows who I am... it's really frustrating."

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For more in-depth discussions and exclusive content, visit BreakingPoints.com and consider becoming a member today.

Transcript

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[Tom Brokaw]

Peter Thiel's tech company Palantir is becoming an increasing part of our politics. We can put up B1 here. Laura Loomer, friend of the show here, has been met with JB Vance in the guess the White House complex last week. Last Tuesday and now is saying it's time to deplore the time to deploy Palantir tech to Los Angeles to deal with the illegals. You know, you'd love to see it. You're lying if you say you wouldn't. Which raises a lot of speculation about how central Palantir is becoming to this administration's plans. Coming on the heels of this contract that Palantir is getting Sagar in order to basically pull together information from across different agencies. Social Security, irs, dhs, making it all searchable in one place, presumably also then able to combine it with all of the private data that Palantir has been able to collect, which is the big problem. It has broken through to the kind of public podcast space, which is kind of one way you can gauge whether or not an issue is kind of resonating beyond just us chirping heads here inside the Beltway. Tim Dillon spoke about this recently, as did Theo Vaughn when he had J.D. vance on. Let's start with Tim Dillon here.

[Tim Dillon]

You have not one reservation about what's going on over there. I'm not saying. I'm not saying you have to feel one way or another way, but if you don't have any reservation, if you have no reservations about what's happening with all these kids getting killed, if you. I don't know. I can't trust you. If you don't have any reservations about Palantir taking everyone's information, I. I don't know. I can't. I don't know if I could trust you.

[Tom Brokaw]

I don't.

[Tim Dillon]

I think they're buying people left and right. This is my guess. They try to buy me.

[Tom Yamas]

My pussy costs a lot of money.

[Tim Dillon]

I get invited to these dinners. I don't go. I've been invited to Teal's house multiple times for dinner. I don't go. It's no shade at. At them or whatever. You know, the reason I don't go is. I know. I remember one dinner, they're like, we'd like to discuss the media. I go, what? No, thanks. But I've been to some of these places. I've sat in these houses in Austin with these tech people, and I know what they want and I know what they want me to go out and cheerlead for and say, well, it's actually a great idea and there's probably a lot of money in it. There's probably a lot of money and I just can't do it. So my prediction. And I'm not. I don't want to name names. Because I don't know. But my prediction is you're going to see a lot of people over the next six months start thinking this list, great idea. They're going to start telling you how great this is and how it's about terrorism. That's the way that'll start going. Well, it's a terror.

[Tom Brokaw]

Have you heard? Is terrorism going to. Yeah, yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

As, as I said, he is the George Carlin of our time. I do actually think we should spend some time on this Palantir thing because I really haven't been able to dig into it. So I know you guys covered it while I was out. What? Exactly. So there's a contract between the Trump administration and Palantir. Basically it's to use the Palantir, like connective software.

[Tom Brokaw]

Foundry.

[Ryan Seacrest]

The foundry to.

[Tom Brokaw]

As Tim Dillon said, it sounds like you're getting like, you know, some like fair trade coffee company.

[Ryan Seacrest]

That's true. It actually does that. As a fair trade coffee fanatic, that definitely is something that. It does sound. It'd be like some new age coffee.

[Tom Brokaw]

Shop in Brooklyn, but it's actually an optic Omnicon. Opticon.

[Ryan Seacrest]

So the question here is like, what. So what is the purpose of the quote unquote Palantir database? It's just to compile all of this data and make it more searchable for law enforcement authorities. Like, what is even the ostensible justification by the administration?

[Tom Brokaw]

That was J.D. vance's argument. We can play a little bit of him on Theo Vaughn, who pressed him on it. JD Vance's argument was, look, the government already has all this data on you. In fact, the government created some of it. They made your Social Security number, the government. You pay your taxes to the government. Critically, what's really driving it is an effort to connect, I think, criminal records, tax records, Social Security numbers and immigration records. And what they really want to do is figure out people who are here illegally but filing taxes and then figure out who they are and then go and deport them. Interestingly, that like drains this golden goose. Like the way that this two tier society that we have going operates is that people who are here illegally in general pay taxes, but because they're here illegally, they can't get benefits.

[Ryan Seacrest]

All right, Ron.

[Tom Brokaw]

It flips the whole thing on its head that they're here.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I mean, we can talk. You wanna talk?

[Tom Brokaw]

I don't think errors.

[Ryan Seacrest]

You ever been to an E. How many. But what percent of the ER in Los Angeles is illegal? Getting free health care?

[Tom Brokaw]

Very little. Because. Because they can get it. Because they can Get Medicaid there.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Huh?

[Tom Brokaw]

They can get Medicaid there.

[Ryan Seacrest]

My point is, is that, look, the idea that they're not consuming any taxpayer resources is insane. Like, that's. This is just not true.

[Tom Brokaw]

But I mean, I think more importantly, it's just wrong to have a two tier system.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Okay, sure, yeah. So there's two ways to accomplish that.

[Tom Brokaw]

That's basically. It seems like what's going on here, they're trying to just connect. They're trying to connect everything and make it immediately searchable. But. So Theo Vaughn pressed J.D. vance about what does J.D. vance owe Peter Thiel? Because of all of the money that Peter Thiel invested in his campaign, or I guess two campaigns. I guess only one really. He didn't really kick in on the second one, did he?

[Ryan Seacrest]

On the presidential. I don't remember.

[Tom Brokaw]

Doesn't matter.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I think he did end up donating to the Trump flop. Not as much as he had previously.

[Tom Brokaw]

So let's roll a little bit of jd. JD and the Yvonne here.

[J.D. Vance]

It costs a lot of money to run for office and you got to go and raise money. Yeah, but I think that if your attitude is, I owe something, these people gave me money, then you're going to end up being corrupted. And you've got to kind of take the attitude of they're supporting me because they agree with me. And obviously, like you have conversations with them. Like you mentioned Peter Thiel. I see a lot of crazy stuff on the Internet about Peter Thiel. Like, you know, he's always been a friend of mine. He's always been one of the smartest people I've ever met. Just a very thoughtful dude. But he's literally never asked me once for anything.

[Theo Vaughn]

So he just believed in you?

[J.D. Vance]

He believed in me. He agreed with me on a lot of issues. I mean, he definitely has, like said, hey, I don't agree with you on this. But he's never said, I don't agree with you on this, therefore you should vote differently or act differently.

[Tom Brokaw]

So in that same interview, he also Theobald's like, this is kind of gross, this whole database thing. And the way that JD kind of plays it off is all we're doing is connecting data that we already have and that the bigger problem is the private corporate collection of data. What Theo Vaughn could have responded with is then maybe having a giant corporation come in and do it for the government is not the best way to shrink the amount of access to data privately, private data that corporations have.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I mean, I think what the major objection here on the Palantir thing ought to be, at the very least is, look, yeah, I think I, I support deportation, okay, if it makes it easier to deport. But when you have a database, I mean, we saw this with the Patriot act, you know, we saw this with a lot of things. And yes, just because the government has it and it's decentralized isn't necessarily a bad thing for all of us. Like, you know, having basically AI automated things in government databases is really bad. In fact, the vast majority of the audits that are initiated by the IRS are automatic by software and they're predominantly against people who are lower income. And that's one of the ways that we have seen, you know, some of this AI stuff that's, let's say whenever it's deployed at, in healthcare companies, it automatically shoots down like claims at, you know, using and often actually does it incorrectly. And so that's one of the major worries about all of this. I mean, on the Peter Thiel discussion, I'm going to split the difference where, look, I do think it's a little ridiculous, you know, the idea that somebody is supporting you because they don't want something. But I also think that this Teal thing in particular is vastly overstated compared to the entire like GOP industrial complex. And for some, I mean, I know leftists will say this, but you know who, you don't want to know who. The most prominent like policy area where the billionaires who donate to you actually do demand something. It's Israel. It's actually not, in my opinion, in my experience in right wing politics and watching things in terms of what the real psyop and industrial complex here in Washington is, it has way more to do with foreign policy than it does have to do with ICE or Palantir or any of this. The tech guys have definitely spent quite a bit of money. But this is similar, I think also to left wing. When Kamala is like, well, hey, George Soros and Reid Hoffman and all those other people support you.

[Tom Brokaw]

And they're like, well, a lot of.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Rich people support me. So it's. Any one of them could dropout. I would say it's more of a systemic thing, but I do think it is ridiculous the idea that they don't necessarily want something. In Teal's particular case, Thiel is like, I mean, it is an interesting story. If you go, you know, the J.D. vance origin story, he literally is like a law student at Yale University meets Peter Thiel after a lecture. Peter's like, hey, he's a smart guy. We should hire him. Right? And so, I mean, they do actually go way back, a long time. That is pretty rare. I even, I'll admit, in politics. But, you know, this, like, symbiosis between rich people and politicians, I don't know, at a certain point, it just seems systemic to me where it's like, what? People who are bitching about this, who take oceans of money from Bill Gates and all these other people, I'm like, shut up. You know, I mean, look, I'm not saying there are many people like you, Crystal, and others who are totally for a systemic critique, but, you know, to see dnc, like, OP people talking about this, I'm like, we all know who you have dinner with every day in Los Angeles or in San Francisco. Just like, stop pretending as if you were in any way different.

[Tom Brokaw]

The difference is that JD Vance is, in a lot of ways, basically unique in American politics in the sense that a lot of these candidates, they come up through the traditional pipelines they stand for. They're for rich people, they're for corporate power, whether they're Democrats or Republicans. And then, yeah, like, these rich donors are actually supporting their agenda because these politicians made it clear that their agenda is to support the powerful. So, okay, you can say that they just love my ideas. My idea happening to be that you should have lower taxes and less regulations. Amazing how that worked out. But with J.D. vance, he wasn't even. To your point. He wasn't even a politician. Peter Thiel is like, I like this guy. And JD Vain's obviously a very smart and talented guy. So, you know, Peter Thiel was correct in that assessment. But then when he gets him to run for Senate, not just gets him.

[Ryan Seacrest]

To run, I don't think he got him to run. I think he just wanted to run. And I'm telling you, this is somebody who knew something. I don't think it was like, hey, you should run for office. He's like, I want to run.

[Tom Brokaw]

That's true. He's an ambitious guy.

[Ryan Seacrest]

And it's not just. It was Blake Masters as well, by the way.

[Tom Brokaw]

The Blake, he said no earlier, right? He could have run in 20. Was it 18, I think.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I don't actually remember, but 20, 20. I mean, it's funny to me because the Blake Masters is much more of like the Peter Thiel guy. He actually worked for Teal for real. Like, Teal Capital, you know, whenever he ran for office. And I. I don't. I guess only because he lost nobody.

[Tom Brokaw]

That's true. Blake Masters pay attention to him. But I'm like, more of the thing.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Much more of, like, what I think.

[Tom Brokaw]

And he seems to be more like, I think J.D. vance is in line with a lot of the Peter Thiel stuff, but Blake Masters is like, just a clone of it.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Innocent.

[Tom Brokaw]

I mean, I guess we need Emily here. Emily?

[Ryan Seacrest]

I honestly don't know. Yeah, I think Masters is a weird guy, you know, to be honest. Doesn't he have a job right now in the Trump administration? I think he does.

[Tom Brokaw]

He did get a job, didn't he?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Tom Brokaw]

So when you say, well, Peter Thiel, just like, you know, he agrees with me, I don't agree with him. It's like, it's weird because you've been a team for so long. Is the. Is more.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I think that's fair for people to point out. Obviously. I encourage people. There is a great book, George Packer, liberal. He'll back me up on this liberal. The Unwinding. Have you read that book from 2013.

[Tom Brokaw]

Sitting on my shelf?

[Ryan Seacrest]

The Unwinding is one of the best, most prescient books I've ever read. And because it came out in 2013 and it predicted the Trump era, in my opinion, far before anyone else. And actually, Peter Thiel is profiled in the Unwinding. And one of the things that Thiel says which ends up becoming massively prescient, is he's like, I think that the next person who wins the American presidency will do so on a message of American decline, and it will not be on a message of American optimism. Kumbaya, kind of what Obama was selling. You'll remember. That's why Thiel is one of the only people, prominent business people, to speak on the RNC stage in 2016, and arguably was one of the only, like, quote unquote titans of industry or whatever to actually be pro Trump. And I mean, if we'll also say this, if we think back to 2016, JD was calling Trump Hitler. Peter T. Was on the stage.

[Tom Brokaw]

Okay, fair enough.

[Ryan Seacrest]

So let's point out, you know, some of the things that are going on here. Like, you know, there's a little bit of a contravening interest, and it's only later on. I mean, JD doesn't really become a full blown Trump guy till 2018, 2019, when Trump. And actually that's when Thiel reduces his amount of funding to the Republican Party and basically says, hey, screw you, you guys took advantage of me and I don't really want to be on the team anymore.

[Tom Brokaw]

Right.

[Ryan Seacrest]

And in 2020 and 2024, I wouldn't say, sits out the election per se, but does a lot less. And you don't see him giving the same speeches in Washington or at the Bitcoin conference or at the RNC stage in the similar way that he did in 2016.

[Tom Brokaw]

Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Anyway, I think it's just.

[Tom Brokaw]

That's an interesting point.

[Ryan Seacrest]

It's an important story.

[Tom Brokaw]

All right. The whole Theo Vaughn thing is worth listening to. J.D. vance is just disturbingly good in those environments.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Why do you think it's disturbing?

[Tom Brokaw]

Because I'm with Theo Vaughn through most of it where he's like pressing J.D. vance on the genocide and it was good to see him raise it. But then JD Vance picks up on the phrase genocide and just kind of dissects that and then just moves into Ukraine. He's just so good at sounding reasonable and moving on.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Can a Democrat do that? I mean, we saw that tons of times.

[Tom Brokaw]

Very few of them are any good at it.

[Ryan Seacrest]

It's more of a talent problem.

[Tom Brokaw]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Tom Brokaw]

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[Tom Brokaw]

There's a great line in the same article that says these stocks have been severely depleted by shipments to Ukraine after the Russian invasion and for the United States to Israel during the Gaza conflict.

[Ryan Seacrest]

So we have these two proxy wars which you have no business even being involved in, which has massively depleted our stock. And now we need to replete that stock after we spent untold billions of dollars and poured it into this for literally nothing, in fact getting inverse return on both of those. And then we're sitting here the whole time, which, I mean I've been doing segments here for three plus years about why this is a bad idea to deplete US military supply chain for both of these conflicts. Lo and behold, what do we see? We have a chokehold on the minerals. You know, I haven't gotten.

[Tom Brokaw]

We dropped a lot on Yemen too for no reason.

[Ryan Seacrest]

That's what I'm saying is what. I have not gotten a chance to speak about this. It is very important. I think that one of the most important things that happened whenever I was gone was that drone swarm attack by Ukraine on the Russian bomber force. You had an attack which cost nothing, which destroyed billions of dollars in property. And do you know who Russia is in that situation? You're looking at, okay, who's rocking 11 aircraft carriers on the high seas with billion dollar missiles that are basically useless against the Houthis and F16s falling off the sides, F16s falling off the sides because we have improper safety protocol, lack of training, etc. I could go on forever. The carrying cost of the United States military is now getting up to $1 trillion. And in two proxy conflicts, we have watched the Ukrainian drone force destroy a multi billion dollar force of Russian nuclear capable bombers. And we have watched literally these Yemeni Houthis living in caves who are able to cobble together Iranian made like missiles and fire them at ships and we have nothing about it. We have depleted a massive stock of missiles and all of this. And we're reliant here on the Chinese supply chain. You need an entire rethinking of the entire US military industrial complex. But the point is, is that the bloat is, the bloat is the entire purpose. Having this inefficient, highly expensive military reliant on China and all of that. That is the pillar of globalization that keeps all of this going and especially here in D.C. and if we ever get into, you know, God help us if we ever get into a conflict because that Ukraine thing, that's gonna happen everywhere and you're gonna see billions obliterated in seconds and then we're gonna be scrambling for drones. And I have one guess as to where the best drones in the world come from. And where the best drone parts in the world come from too, right?

[Tom Brokaw]

And China, as it's been developing its own military capacity has spent the last 30 years studying our kinetic activity.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Afghanistan, Iraq and our sanctions as well. They're the most sanction proof country in the world. They're the best prepared military right now, I think to face any western style conflict. And you know, at the end of the day, industrialization and ability to build is everything. Meanwhile, here in America, you know, we launched a trade war against the entire world. Everyone's like, what? Like why is my car seat more expensive? You know, and we all just have to pay attention to this criminology in London and hoping that things don't pop off again.

[Tom Brokaw]

And let's talk real quickly about that, the industrial policy failure here, 2009. In that same article, 2009, US Congress says, Look, the samarium thing seems to be pretty central to our entire military industrial complex and it's made in China. Let's rectify that. So great foresight on the part of our lawmakers and our defense policy makers. So they earmark, you know, tens of millions of dollars, 30 million I think it was, for this factory in Washington state that's going to reopen a mine where there's some samarium and then it's going to refine it. For a variety of reasons it's cheaper for them to continue getting it from China, but they buy a bunch of the equipment that is going to allow them to create the, you know, to transform the rare earths into the type of magnets that, that are needed for this, you know, high end military technology because they're extraordinarily heat resistant. As they're getting closer to doing that, the Biden administration then also cuts a contract with a giant company in Texas that's going to do the same thing. At the same time, China is still selling samarium to Lockheed Martin and these other customers at much cheaper prices than the US can do it because the US doesn't have its industry up yet. And the one in Washington state looks at the one in Texas and is like, well, we can't compete. There aren't enough Buyers for two of these companies and it looks like Biden's in with the Texas one. So they shut down, basically bankrupt. And then the Texas one never gets off the ground either. So 2009 to today, we still don't have the production capacity. If you're China, how about just don't give us any magnets and just declare world peace. We're done.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, so one of the most depressing stories that I heard, or sorry, read while I was gone was this story about how the Chinese managed their industrial policy. And it would be like if we had every, you know, we have all these buildings in D.C. full of all these bureaucrats. Imagine if they actually were the best and the brightest from across the entire university system.

[Tom Brokaw]

Instead ours go into crypto and like finance.

[Ryan Seacrest]

And these people are like the best and the brightest in China. Deep PhD level economists, experts who are sitting there managing and green lighting each project off the ground, evaluating its ability for success, going out into the private sector, finding the manager who will be the public private partner. They have total dictatorship control over their whole country. So they choose the most optimal land. They don't have to deal with some provincial.

[Tom Brokaw]

And they'll do, they'll do four of them and make them compete, right?

[Ryan Seacrest]

They come in and they're like, okay, we're gonna do it here and we're gonna make sure this is built by this, this and this. And you would be shocked to learn that that's actually extremely effective. So I just want people, look, I mean, I'm not saying I support that system, but it works and it works pretty well.

[Tom Brokaw]

The abundance crowd would point out that some of the manufacturing of this is extremely polluting. And China put it in a place that was like way out in the middle of nowhere.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I mean, that is empirically true and.

[Tom Brokaw]

They just ran over any opposition to all of the pollution that it was creating. Whereas in the U.S. people in Washington state are like, this sounds pretty bad.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Oh, we need an environmental impact study here. Whatever. I mean, listen, I get it. We live in a federalist, you know, we live in a federalist republic which have states rights and all that. It has worked pretty well, I guess. You know, we're still there, but we are running up against a system which is very intelligently designed and which exponentially continues to find this ability to, to basically have like arbitrage opportunities against the US economy and slowly is either competing and, or trying to replace it at a broad level. I also wanna put C3 up here because also unlike in China, we live in a democracy and guess what? Things are still pretty shaky right now. This is from the Wall Street Journal. The US Economy is headed towards a very uncomfortable summer. Quote, companies are freezing hiring and investment to deal with shifting tariff policies. Even Trump doesn't know what he's going to do next. This is actually arguably, in my opinion, the most important part of tariffs is basically a freezing of across the entire US Economy and people just have no idea what to do. And so they're hoarding cash. You have millions of companies across the US which basically are just not hiring, not really doing anything big. They just want to sit around and wait to see what the macro policy is. And with that, you're seeing what we saw in the initial jobs report with the labor market. There's been basically a hiring freeze that we've seen. You are watching some of the consumer pushback that could happen with reduced consumption if we do even a 10% price increase. Actually, by the way, with eggs, I was just looking yesterday, there's been a huge issue because of bird flu. It does not look like eggs are coming down anytime soon in the next year or so, just as a result of some of the flock shortages. And then you've also got the financial market basically continued massive shocks that are up and down. So basically across the system, there's just a tremendous amount of uncertainty. Things could happen at any moment. I know the steel tariffs went into effect, went up 50%. Right. You know, while I was gone, that takes a while to show up. Building materials from Canada, things from China and all of that shortage. You may not see it the way you imminently would have with the 100/ whatever percent China tariffs, but they may begin to show up. So we don't know quite yet.

[Tom Brokaw]

Yeah, and the market and the media seem to have moved on because of Taco Trump. They think that Trump is going to chicken out. And what they have priced in is him chickening out. And he will eventually unravel this trade war. And they probably will. They're probably not wrong about that in the long term. In the short term, people are getting destroyed every single day. Even with these 20% tariffs. You got a million dollar order coming in.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, it's a lot of money.

[Tom Brokaw]

You owe 200 grand on that. That was your margin on that entire project, that this million dollars of supplies coming in was maybe, you know, 5 to 10%, maybe let's say it was 20%. Nice little margin you had there. It had to be well above 20% for you not to be insolvent based on just 20% tariffs, especially because you couldn't price that in ahead of time. So yeah, while Trump takes his time getting to his final taco, people are just crashing and burning.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Well, we certainly will see.

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[Ryan Seacrest]

Let's get to Theo Vaughan. And so there were two interesting moments. The Gaza one. You want to set this up?

[Tom Brokaw]

Yeah. So, yeah. So there was, you know, Theo Vaughan went viral a few weeks ago, you know, getting to kind of tears talking about the genocide in Gaza. And he's like, gaza, we just cannot not talk about the fact that this is being done on a daily basis with our tax dollars and with weapons that we're buying. This is an unconscionable thing to be happening. So when J.D. vance, it was announced that he was gonna appear on Theo Von's podcast, there were questions like, is Theo Von gonna press him on this? Let's see. And he did. So we can watch a little of that exchange.

[Theo Vaughn]

It's the sickest thing, I think it's ever been televised. Basically, if you consider watching something on your phone, it's a mass. It feels like a massacre, and it feels like, you know, I've called it a genocide. Other people have different thoughts about it, and that's fine. Right? And I don't need anybody to share the same thoughts or you two. But I think where it gets scary is that we give. You know, we're complicit in it because we help fund, like, military stuff, you know, and that's where it's like a regular guy. You're like, well, I'm paying these taxes, and they're going towards this, like. But you can't do anything, you know? Like, you can. You can. You can talk, you know, but it's like, you can't. I don't understand how it becomes, like, tough for people. Like, sometimes it feels like we look out for the interests of Israel before we look out for the interests of America.

[J.D. Vance]

So let me say a couple things. So. So, number one, like, I think you're a great dude, so would almost have to agree on everything.

[Theo Vaughn]

Do I think it's.

[J.D. Vance]

Do I think it's a genocide? No. And here's. Here's the reason why I don't think it's a genocide, because I don't think that the Israelis are purposely trying to go in and murder every Palestinian. I don't think that's what they're doing. I think they got hit hard, and I think they're.

[Tom Brokaw]

They're.

[J.D. Vance]

They're trying to, like, you know, sort of destroy this terrorist organization. And war is hell. And that is true. I also think it's true, man. I mean, I've seen people on my side of the political aisle. I'm a Republican, you know that. But your audience may not. Who, like, will see these videos of these innocent Palestinian kids and say, oh, well, they had it coming to them. No, no, no, no, no, no. Like, if you have a soul, your heart should break when you see a little kid who's suffering. Which is why we have the policy that we have, which is we're trying to stop. Eliminate the conflict. Eliminate the source of the conflict so that we can actually bring some peace and some humanitarian assistance into people. And that's my basic view.

[Tom Brokaw]

So after that saga, Theo Von comes back with something that might even be more damaging to kind of both parties long term. But also the Republicans, where he says, Theo Von's like, I don't know, man. It just seems like sometimes we care more about what's happening in Israel than we do what's happening here in the United States.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Empirically true.

[Tom Brokaw]

And J.D. vance says, you know, basically says Trump is trying to end the conflict, which.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Is a popular message and actually interesting and not necessarily one that we would have seen under.

[Tom Brokaw]

Working tirelessly.

[Ryan Seacrest]

We're working tirelessly.

[Tom Brokaw]

Working tirelessly to end it.

[Ryan Seacrest]

It is funny. I saw a lot of leftists very upset about this, and I was like, is there a single Democratic politician other than AOC or Rashida? Has AOC ever said the word genocide? I actually don't know.

[Tom Brokaw]

Yes.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Okay.

[Tom Brokaw]

Fairly early on, what.

[Ryan Seacrest]

How many are we talking? Four. Four elected Democrats. So any person with national ambitions who would have been asked that question from the Democratic. In fact, I mean, if you ask Richie Torres, you would probably get an even more war. Like, something like he was.

[Tom Brokaw]

He's the kind of person that's attacking.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Trump for even he would say, you're an anti Semite. Yeah. He'd be like, you are anti Semitic for saying the word genocide. So progress, you know, maybe. I mean, like I said, it's funny. Everybody focuses on the Peter Thiel thing or whatever. I'm like, I think Israel is probably the issue most. Where you see a lockup of discussion on this issue. And that is one where, yeah, when I saw that answer, like, it's sad, you know, to see. But also, do I expect literally anything else from Donald Trump? Miriam Adelson, Freedom Giver Vice President I'm like, well, that's politics. By the way, he actually has always been weirdly pro Israel, which I find.

[Tom Brokaw]

Who, J.D. vance.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And so. Which I find genuinely, like, mystifying. It's Like Israel is some force of benevolence and balance, you know, in the region. I don't really know how you get there.

[Tom Brokaw]

Did he serve in Iraq? Judy Vance?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Well, I mean, as a. What is it called? Public information officer, but yeah. He was deployed to Iraq for a year.

[Tom Brokaw]

Yeah. I wonder if. I wonder if something happened there that, like, what would happen? I don't know. Well, maybe like a real contempt for, like, Baghdad or something. A real hostility for the people there. And then you're like, well, at least the Israelis are like.

[Ryan Seacrest]

But then you would be. Who's the guy who wears the IDF uniform in Congress? What's a guy's name?

[Tom Brokaw]

Oh, Mast.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Mast.

[Tom Brokaw]

Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

But then you would be like a Brian Mast figure. Actually, it's good. Who's the new congressman?

[Tom Brokaw]

Randy Fong.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Right. With the Israeli flag.

[Tom Brokaw]

We should.

[Ryan Seacrest]

We cheer this on every time we see a dead Palestinian kid? I don't know. I mean, look. I mean, within US Politics, especially, what in the broad spectrum of the bell curve or whatever, like, I guess we're just gonna say it's a positive. But I think that the cultural positive coming out of this is to have a Theo Vaughan, like, figure out there who is willing to say something like this. And if he's gonna use his platform, at the very least ask. That's another thing. I saw a lot of attacks on Theo for not. And like, look, guys, the Ivan, like, we're expecting him to litigate Israeli policing. What are we doing here?

[Tom Brokaw]

Okay, take what you can get.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, yeah. You take what you could get. The fact that there's even, like, a level of criticism. Also, if we're gonna normalize this and broadly think it's good to have politicians go on these shows. Yeah. Every once in a while, you're gonna get a wild car question like that, because this is where, unfortunately, they're not actually giving enough credit to Theo. That word would never even be uttered in a CNN interview.

[Tom Brokaw]

Oh, npr.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Npr. Never. Right. So it's like, look, we're at least in some net positive territory here. I understand people want to, you know, have a big back and forth or whatever it's like. But, you know, I still think we're a long way.

[Tom Brokaw]

Because the real political problem for him is to confront that question. You're America first, but you seem like you care more about Israel. Correct. You see, we had a win, by the way.

[Ryan Seacrest]

What is it?

[Tom Brokaw]

There was a. A piece of a resolution to condemn the Boulder terrorist attack.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Okay, great.

[Tom Brokaw]

Condemn that. Terrorist attacks are bad.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Tom Brokaw]

They wrote into it the terrorist shouted Free Palestine, which is an anti Semitic slogan that calls for the destruction of the Jewish people, which then if you vote for it, you're voting for. You're affirming the definition of Free Palestine as an anti Semitic slogan. We reported on this. It went viral. Code pink kicked into gear, and they pulled it out and they passed the resolution just condemning the.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, but didn't the IHRA resolution just become law? Is that fake news? What am I thinking of?

[Tom Brokaw]

Well, it went under Biden. It became law, basically.

[Ryan Seacrest]

But didn't it just get reaffirmed or something like that?

[Tom Brokaw]

I'm sure that they're reaffirming it constantly. There might have been another resolution saying how wonderful it is. But so. So the fact that they could have passed it, yet they took it out, because I feel like there is at least some sense among both parties, leaders, that people are losing their patience for this stuff that. What do you mean? You're gonna tell me that Free Palestine is legally now deemed to be an anti Semitic slogan? It's just too ridiculous.

[Ryan Seacrest]

But that is where I do see, like, some of this Theo Vaughn, Tim Dillon Rogan.

[Tom Brokaw]

Right.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I'm not sure I've heard anything from Shane Gillis or I watch these people closely just because I'm like, okay, like, where's the bro sphere kind of, you know, going in this regard? And there is a general acknowledgment. They're like, yeah, this is pretty weird like this, you know, like the laws and the level of, like, you're not allowed to boycott government force, you know, against Mahmoud Khalil or any of that. But I mean, arguably, what's even crazier, I think, than the deportations is at the highest level is like the full force of this, quote, anti Semitism task force, basically setting the rules and regulations at different universities and then making it, you know, the policy of the United States government. The way that you teach history at Harvard University, that's nuts. You know, at a federal level in particular, and then using it without applying. I mean, it's a different thing to say we're gonna withhold federal funding. If universities violate existing law on the Civil Rights act, that's like a long standing thing. Or against it, you know, whatever discrimination, I think that's fine. And if states want to get involved with the way that their public universities are. I've had a debate here before. Be my guest. I think states who are, you know, like the University of Virginia, University of Texas and all these other places, these are state institutions which should generally be governed by the state legislatures and others with the input of their constituents, but at a federal level, coming in over the top on some of these private institutions. That's where it just gets totally crazy. And I think people can see that very clearly.

[Tom Brokaw]

Yeah, they ordered basically the Middle Eastern head of Harvard's division to be fired. It's like, what are you doing?

[Ryan Seacrest]

It's crazy.

[Tom Brokaw]

The fun thing, other fun thing, the fun thing about the Theo Vaughan interview is it happened just as the Musk Trump war was breaking out into the open. So we can actually start with D2B. This tear sheet from the Washington Post. They have interesting reporting that, you know, Trump knew J.D. vance is headed to this Theo Vaughn interview. So he knows this is gonna come up. And he said, you know, be cool. You know, don't. Don't go too hard on the poor guy.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, we're still. I'm still. It's weird.

[Tom Brokaw]

While J.D. vance was going to the interview and while he's in the interview, Musk continues to turn the heat up. By the time he's in the interview, he's calling for his impeachment and talking about the Epstein files. So when Trump gave that recommendation or that directive, he hadn't gone quite to the defcon that he eventually did. But let's roll a little bit of Theo Vaughn talking about Epstein and Elon and Trump here.

[Theo Vaughn]

D2 Elon Musk, you may have heard of him.

[Tom Brokaw]

I've heard of him.

[Theo Vaughn]

Time to drop the really big bomb. Right? And I thought this was going to be on iron.

[J.D. Vance]

I haven't even seen.

[Theo Vaughn]

Right.

[J.D. Vance]

I haven't even seen this one.

[Theo Vaughn]

But he goes at real, real. Donald Trump is in the Epstein files. This is the real reason they have not been made public. Have a nice day. Nice signature from a South African djt, man.

[J.D. Vance]

Well, here, here's, here's my basic reaction to like all this stuff is, is, look, look, first of all, absolutely not. Donald Trump didn't do anything wrong with Jeffrey Epstein. The guy is whatever the Democrats and the media says about him.

[Tom Brokaw]

That's totally bs.

[J.D. Vance]

Here's my basic read on it. First of all, I'm the vice president to President Trump. My loyalties are always going to be with the president. And I think that Elon, he's an incredible entrepreneur. He's actually done. I think Doge was really good. This sort of effort to root out waste, fraud and abuse in our country is really good. And look, man, I'm always gonna be loyal to the president. And I hope that eventually Elon kind of comes back into the fold. Maybe that's not possible now because he's gone so nuclear.

[Tom Brokaw]

First of all, let's talk about the material, the substance there. Why would Donald Trump not be. He's one of his best friends.

[Ryan Seacrest]

According to Epstein.

[Tom Brokaw]

Yeah, according to Epstein, Donald Trump's one of his best friends. There's the image of him and Epstein together, or whether they're laughing.

[Ryan Seacrest]

He likes him young and Trump.

[Tom Brokaw]

Trump said in GQ or whatever it was. Yeah, Jeffrey Epstein. And it was a statement. You could tell. It was like one of those dictated statements that he gave where he's like, jeffrey Epstein likes him young, but he loves to have a good time.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I said this yesterday. I wonder if you agree with me. I'm like, I don't think the conspiracy is about Trump. I think it's about Mossad. I think that's why they won't release the Epstein file. It's so obvious. You know, considering a lot of the quotes and all of that there. I mean, I'm sure it probably doesn't make Trump look good in terms of some of the. What? Ghislaine and Epstein were both Mar a Lago members, and who knows, maybe Trump. The Trump Organization or whatever had invested with Epstein or vice versa or something like that in the past. Would not surprise me, considering everything is out there. But I still think that's the number one reason why the vast majority of the stuff has not yet been released.

[Tom Brokaw]

Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Tom Brokaw]

Okay, good. Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I mean, that's one where I'm just seeing this all, like, morph online. I'm like, guys, no, it's been the same the whole time. Like, we've seen the original reason why he wasn't released or why. Why he was given this sweetheart deal, you know, from federal prosecutors, was literally, they said, intelligence. That's the entire reason behind it. And now Kash Patel just basically changing his entire story on a dime the moment that he becomes the FBI director and be like, don't you think I would give it to you if I had it? And it's like, no, no, actually, no. Do I think that the FBI would lie to me? Yeah. Yes. About an intelligence asset. Absolutely. That's the most believable thing I've ever seen.

[Tom Brokaw]

Yeah. Before we move on, we gotta do the funniest one.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Oh, yeah.

[Tom Brokaw]

Not even gonna teach.

[Ryan Seacrest]

This may not even translate. Because a lot of our audience is not nearly as online as we are, but there is a great.

[Tom Brokaw]

This is your online. This is how online are you test.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah. This is how online are you testing? And Here we have an incident where Theo Vaughn's producer has a person muted. JD notices this and is like, who do you have muted? And then he bursts out laughing whenever he sees. Let's take a listen.

[J.D. Vance]

This is interesting.

[Tom Brokaw]

Pull it up, let's see.

[J.D. Vance]

It's from an account you muted. I'm curious. Who did you mute?

[Theo Vaughn]

Who is that guy?

[J.D. Vance]

Is that yours? It's one of your producers.

[Theo Vaughn]

Ian Muley's shonk. Oh, it's a Trump should be impeached. And J.D. vince should replace him. Dude, that's one vote.

[J.D. Vance]

Oh, my God.

[Tom Brokaw]

If you don't know if success in life is not being online and failure.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Is being online, the ovon Miles Chong is.

[Tom Brokaw]

I applaud you.

[Ryan Seacrest]

You have won in life.

[Tom Brokaw]

We have lost bad. We got routed long.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I'm deep in Ian lore. I've known Ian or known of Ian for probably.

[Tom Brokaw]

This is a Malaysian. If you don't know. He's a. He's a Malaysian provocateur.

[Ryan Seacrest]

He's a Malaysian per evocateur. He does not live in the United States, but he has many thoughts about.

[Tom Brokaw]

The United States of America.

[Ryan Seacrest]

About the United States of America. Literally constantly posting videos. One of the most proliferate Elon reply guys probably makes thousands of dollars a month on Twitter off of his this new verification scheme. Definitely a major Elon fanboy. There are open questions as to whether he's ever been to the United States of America in the first place. I still think it's weird. I think you and I have talked about this before. That he cares so much about America. It'd be like if you and I were talking about Jho day long. You know, we'll be like, let's get. Yeah, okay, one mdb.

[Tom Brokaw]

Let's.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Let's go, Ryan. Let's just be obsessed with Malaysia and Kuala Lumpur's internal politics. It's totally nuts.

[Tom Brokaw]

People be like, what's this guy doing?

[Ryan Seacrest]

What is this guy doing? Like, why does he care so much? He doesn't even live. You're not even from here. It's like the meme, like, you don't even go here. You know what. What is happening? So very, very funny moment. Just to show you online.

[Tom Brokaw]

JD Vance clearly extremely online.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I mean, he's the first millennial, you know, vice president. So that. That is certainly what you get.

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[Tom Yamas]

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[Tom Brokaw]

You know what's great about your investment account with the big guys? It's actually a time machine. Log in and zoom. Welcome back to 1990. Now it's time for an upgrade. At public.com you can invest in almost everything. Stocks, bonds, options and more. You can even put your cash to work at an industry leading 4.1% APY. Leave your clunky, outdated platform behind. @Public.com Go to Public.com and fund your account in five minutes or less. Paid for by Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC. Full [e-mail] disclosures the DNC has discovered YouTube. YouTube apparently has yet to discover the DNC. However. Let's roll this.

[Tom Yamas]

Hi, I'm Hannah, the Deputy Communications Director for the Democrats. We're launching a new daily messaging program called the Blueprint. It starts today on YouTube. You should watch.

[Ryan Seacrest]

We're going to talk about what's happening.

[Tom Yamas]

In Washington today, what Republicans are up to, what Democrats are doing, and how you can join the fight.

[Tom Brokaw]

So a bit of a bumpy start. We can put up E2 here.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, we hate to view count shame, Ryan, but 7720 views, that's just. I'm sorry, that's pathetic. Okay. I mean, I made a joke that that's five minutes here at Breaking Points. But actually, you know what? I can take a look at the data right now and actually tell you whether that is Breaking Points.

[Tom Brokaw]

While you're looking up the data. While you're looking up the data, I can say that we have to wrap this by 10am because DNC's next live.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Stream starts at 10am and how many people are in the waiting room for that currently?

[Tom Brokaw]

2.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Two people in the waiting room for that. Let's not. That's the producer waiting room shame either. We all know that waiting rooms, the metrics don't necessarily apply. That said, at the very moment that you and I are doing this, it is 9:45. So it starts in 2:15 minutes. That's a little low. It's a little low. And you would expect something better from a major political party in the United States, but that's just me.

[Tom Brokaw]

Would you expect.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I just don't understand what they are trying to get out of this. And I'll tell you why. Why do you need the Democratic Party to have its own YouTube show? The RNC is not doing that. You know, it's like they're taking this whole podcast thing too seriously. Like, let me look right now, guys. Brian Tyler Cohen, a huge lib, is on YouTube right now with 4.4 million subscribers. His last video, with his last video with Gavin Newsom, it's got 500,000 views. All right, let me go and check. Midas Touch, these guys are huge.

[Tom Brokaw]

Huge.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I've seen Brian Tyler, I've seen what's his name, Newsom. He's given interviews to Midas Touch and Brian Tyler Cohen. He knows what time it is in terms of the troop deployment. I'm looking at this right now. I mean, yeah, the latest Midas Touch video was posted an hour ago. Already has 100,000 views on the front end, which, as people who do this professionally know, on the back end, it's probably a million. No, it's probably way more than that. If I'm looking at some of the videos that they posted yesterday, we're talking about hundreds of thousands of views. Yeah, here we go. The interview with Gavin Newsom posted 14 hours ago has 545,000 views. They've got a video from 16 hours ago with 761,000 views. I mean, these are astronomical numbers. These are unbelievable. They've got almost a million views on videos that they posted yesterday. And this is just video after video after video. And they're nearly 5 million. Okay. And this is, you know, we view shame. The Democrats, I view, respect people who, anybody out there. If you're clocking this, I'm paying attention. Okay? And that's why I don't understand the Democrats wanting to do their own YouTube channel here, because these guys already exist. The politicians know you don't need to, quote, go direct in the way that they're doing it. What? The Republican Party doesn't have its own podcast. It's cringe. What do they do? They're like, oh, the Nelk boys want to have us on cool. They got 10 million subscribers. Joe Rogan, 20 million, Theo Vaughn, Tim Dillon, whatever. They just spread it out. Bussin, Barstool, any of these other places. That's the strategy is you go to places where they already have the audience. So it just feels very like. It feels very designed in a lab and over interpreted of this whole podcast going direct online thing. Hasan is out there. Midas Touch is out there. I don't understand. Just go do that. But I think the, the take is they're afraid. They don't. You know, very few Republican politicians would go to a podcast where someone's gonna ask them about Gaza genocide. They just don't have balls, let's be honest. And I think that's the same thing here. Yes, Newsom is going on here, but other Democratic leaders have not yet really embraced what's happening in the online sphere. It's out there if you want to take it.

[Tom Brokaw]

And you know what's interesting is, you know who else made this same mistake was Bernie Sanders in 2020.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Really explain what you mean.

[Tom Brokaw]

He went out and you can talk to Brian Joy Gray about this, who was his national spokesperson for that campaign. They went out and they started their own podcast. They started their own, like shows, I do vaguely remember. And he wanted to create this kind of Bernie media. He was coming at it from a different direction. He wasn't afraid that he was gonna get, you know, questioned. Well, this was pre October 7th. But he didn't trust the mainstream media because he thinks they're corporate shills and he hates them. And he, for 30, 40 years, has always kind of saw himself as both messenger slash journalist and politician. Back in the 1970s, the thing he dedicated Himself to was making a Eugene Debs documentary. And when he was mayor, he would go around doing these in person interviews with people in the Burlington Mall and then post them on like public access television. Like this is. He's always wanted to kind of cut the media out. Yet where he really got his traction was because the actual media understood how much Riz he had, how he drove ratings. And he was able to then co op that to get his message out. And if you look at kind of the return on the investment and trying to create this Bernie media sphere, it was a total flop. Yeah, like it's really very difficult to just generate that. And also even Bernie supporters don't want that. Like, they want their guy out there on other podcasts in other media so that they can see that the message is getting to everybody. And so certainly you're not. You don't have. You have a lot more people that loved Bernie Sanders than love the dnc.

[Ryan Seacrest]

It's also more interesting to see Bernie on Fox or Bernie on. Or Bernie on any of the. I mean, it's just, it's more, you know, you actually get more out of it to see them in different environments. That's broadly how these politicians succeed. That's actually what real talent is, is the ability to go in an unfamiliar environment and just broadly handle yourself like, fine, you know. And so anyway, I think it's a huge mistake. And broadly, it just shows you what a mess the DNC is right now. This is my first.

[Tom Brokaw]

There's now four ways they've doubled their viewership. Oh, huge. Huge.

[Ryan Seacrest]

All right, let's go to the next one here. I need you to explain this to me. Quote, leaked audio reveals DNC chair is in despair over Dem Civil War. Quote, no one knows who I am. And he says he told this to David Hogg. You essentially destroyed any chance I have to show leadership that I need to. It's really frustrating. And he is now saying whether he's also questioning whether he should quit his job or not. This is the brand new DNC chair. So why is he so mad at David Hogg over this? Because of the threat, which he didn't. He walked back is threat to primary sitting Democrats.

[Tom Brokaw]

Well, they're booting him out.

[Tom Yamas]

Right.

[Tom Brokaw]

So what happened basically is that David Hogg, who rose to prominence from Parkland March for our Lives and became kind of an avatar for this young people's movement against gun violence, he's also developed some politics that are a bit oppositional to the party. And maybe that's just from seeing the party up close for so long, and he kind of recoiled at it. And so it was kind of interesting when he got elected to the dnc, because if you don't follow it close, you're like, oh, the guy's probably just a puppet for the dnc. If you follow close, you're like, no, that guy actually has his own ideas. Interesting that he got in there. One of the first ideas, he kind of rolls out and he says, I'm basically going to do this super PAC with tens of millions of dollars that is gonna support candidates who are taking on bad incumbent Democrats. And it's just a record scratch inside the DNC office. They're like, excuse me, you're gonna do what?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Right?

[Tom Brokaw]

You're a DNC vice chair, and you're gonna be weighing in in primaries against the incumbent Democrat. We're not. No, no, we're not doing that. If we get into a primary at all, it's going to be to defend the bad incumbent Democrat against the challengers, against the insurgent challengers. And so then they basically push him out of the dnc. They move to push him out of the dnc because they say you can't do both things at once. And if you were going to do both things at once, it would be just a completely different dnc. And then maybe that kind of revolutionary DNC actually can challenge Trump, but that's not the one that they want. So from Ken Martin's perspective, he's the functionary brought in from Minnesota. He ran the Minnesota party. He's like, well, f this, man, this sucks. He had some ideas for some things he was gonna do better, but now the whole focus is on this hog situation. So that's the frustration that you're. That you're seeing from him there. He's like, what am I supposed to do now? Now, like, he's in his defense, he's in this no win situation. Well, the only way he wins is he goes all in with Hog. He's like, yeah, we are actually throwing.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Which would never fly with the dnc.

[Tom Brokaw]

But you're back to no win.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Wow. Totally crazy.

[Tom Brokaw]

And so then Hog, I think it was Holly Otterbean, but it was a Holly. People are like, oh, and now Hog, you're leaking DNC audio. He's like, no, I did not leak this. And to prove it, he posts screenshots with, I think, Holly Otter being at Politico of her reaching out to ask for comment on this audio.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Wow.

[Tom Brokaw]

To say, like, look, I didn't leak it. Otherwise, she Would.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, that's right. That's true.

[Tom Brokaw]

So people are like, oh, so you would leak some text messages to prove you didn't leak this audio?

[Ryan Seacrest]

What a mess, man.

[Tom Brokaw]

Just a total, complete mess.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Okay, let's put the next thing up here. These are just hilarious fails that can't help but highlight. This is more recently, Congressman Sarah Jacobs. She tweeted these immigration rates don't define us. Our response to them does. I am proud to have dinner at Buena Forte to show my support to them as they deal with the fallout of the raids where agents threw out flashbang grenades. Not hard on criminals. We will continue to stand with our immigrant communities. So she dined nicely at a Los Angeles restaurant. Ryan, in order to support them in this.

[Tom Brokaw]

It's like a Neapolitan pizza place. She put up an image of it. It looks incredible.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Okay.

[Tom Brokaw]

Absolutely looks incredible.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Best Neapolitan pizza is where can you guess?

[Tom Brokaw]

And it's not in Tokyo. Oh, New Haven. Tokyo.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Tokyo, Japan.

[Tom Brokaw]

Oh, wow. They do it right there.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Tokyo, Japan.

[Tom Brokaw]

Anyway, I'm team Sarah Jacobs. I'll eat a wood fire pizza for any cause.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Tone deafness. It's like, come on. All right. And then finally, I have not yet gotten to react to taco. So please put this up there on the screen. Eric Squalwell. Eric Swalwell. This meme is everywhere. This is Trump tripping on Air Force One. Straight let's be kind to each other. Making fun of an almost 80 year old failing on the stairs has no place in our politics. And it says taco fell. So I was not aware of the taco moniker. That is new from the Democrats. What is it? Trump always chickens out Wall Street. So Trump always chickens out Wall street traders came out. This is one where the Democrats have decided to brand Trump Taco for negotiating with Iran. Well, yes, Chuck Schumer said it. No. Isn't that the origin of it?

[Tom Brokaw]

No, no. The part that you missed. Wall street traders love doing these acronyms. And so the acronym that they came up with, that's basically where you're going long on the market, despite Trump saying he's gonna keep his tariffs in place is they call it a taco trademark. Cause it's Trump stands for Trump always chickens out. So if you bet your actual money long on Trump, you bet on Trump chickening out, your bet's gonna come in. And then a reporter.

[Ryan Seacrest]

The taco trade. I like it.

[Tom Brokaw]

A reporter then asked Trump about this Wall street trade called the taco trade. And he's like, they said, what? I'm no chicken. How dare you like Marty McFly. How dare you. And then the market tanked because they're like, no, Marty McFly is now gonna. Now he's gonna stick with his tariffs for longer. And then Chuck Schumer used it to try to get to call him a chicken for not bombing Iran.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Ah, okay.

[Tom Brokaw]

All right. Isn't that what he says? He's tough. But Taco Trump won't even bomb Taco.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Trump will not bomb Iran. It's like, wait, I want the taco. Then it's like, give me tacit. Same on the tariffs.

[Tom Brokaw]

Variety platter.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, let's take not.

[Tom Brokaw]

Let's not bomb three different places. Is that the same price?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Keep tacoing. Yeah, nobody tell them about taco if that's what you want. So anyway.

[Tom Brokaw]

Yeah, so anyway, so it did become a Dem thing, but it started with.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Now we've got the heroic DNC on YouTube. We have representative Sarah Jacobs and who.

[Tom Brokaw]

Is incredible on Godzilla.

[Ryan Seacrest]

DNC Chairman. Oh, is she.

[Tom Brokaw]

She's really good. Interesting. Really interesting.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Why do you think that is? Congresswoman Young, district. What is it?

[Tom Brokaw]

Yeah, I don't know. Like, some of it feels, like, very authentic. She's like. She's really. She really goes out there and is one of the most outspoken Jewish Democrats on Gaza.

[Ryan Seacrest]

All right, maybe we'll cut her back.

[Tom Brokaw]

Maybe we'll cut our break there on the pizza looking.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Speaking of Israel, why don't we get to it?

[Tom Brokaw]

The BBC announced yesterday that it is indefinitely putting on hold a documentary 15 months in the making called Medics Under Fire. Now, while the BBC sits on its investigation, medics in Gaza continue to be targeted. In the past 25 days, Israeli forces have killed 44 healthcare workers, including three yesterday. According to Healthcare Workers Watch the medics. Hussein Mouhayson, Wael Al Atar and Bara Afana, who was just 18 years old, were responding to an Israeli airstrike that left civilians crushed under rubble and whose father, also a paramedic, was on the scene where he was killed but was unable to get to his son because of the relentless bombing. Now, chances are you've seen footage of Mohaison before rescuing children from underneath rubble. About a month ago, footage of a little girl running through flames went viral around the world. Hussein was the one who rescued her, and he was featured in a New York Times report about the attack, which killed at least 30 civilians at a shelter, including five of the girl's siblings and her mother. Hussein described how the girl was stuck behind an impossibly hot door and they were able to get people nearby to dump water on her while they worked on opening that door. He rescued another girl from that fire. That night. Early in the war, he was featured from behind in a photograph that became famous. In the last message he sent to colleagues, he told them, quote, the army is hitting near me. I don't think I have much time left. A journalist, Mohammed Abu Aawf, was with the paramedics and was also killed in the strike. Instead of apologizing for the killing of three medics and a journalist, the IDF has vowed to kill the spokesperson for the Gaza Civil Defense, the agency responsible for rescuing people from rubble, saying that he is a Hamas terrorist whose crime is to make, quote, false statements to the international media, unquote. They are literally promising to bomb the messenger. What's strange about their anger at the Civil Defense is spokesperson who has condemned Israel's attacks on civilians and civilian infrastructure is that Israel does not hide its intentions. He's not saying anything they don't say themselves. Last month, Bezalel Smotrich said publicly, quote, the IDF is finally conducting a campaign against the civilian rule of Hamas. We are eliminating ministers, officials, money handlers and elements of the economic and governmental system, unquote. They are indeed doing exactly that. The goal is to eliminate any civilian authority in Gaza and replace it with Israeli armed and funded gangs. As Netanyahu acknowledged just the other day, Israel isn't limiting its attacks on civilian infrastructure to Gaza. Israel yesterday ordered the evacuation of three ports in Yemen, threatening strikes. Donald Trump meanwhile, was asked about ongoing ceasefire negotiations and said that Iran is now involved.

[Ryan Seacrest]

You mentioned now the flotilla. Do you have a response at all about Israel intercepting this boat? And can you give us an update on what's happening to the entry of aid into into Gaza right now? We've had people being shot by Israeli forces who are trying to get from the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation.

[Tom Brokaw]

Yes, Gaza right now is in the midst of a massive negotiation between us and Hamas and Israel and Iran actually is involved. And we'll see what's going to happen with Gaza. We want to get the hostages back. That's all I can tell you. The Iranians for their part, said yesterday they had obtained intelligence as to the precise locations of sensitive Israeli nuclear sites and would strike them with ballistic missiles if Israel launched an attack on Iran. So those negotiations are ongoing. On Sunday, Sager, there was a hours long Camp David meeting that Trump held with Witkoff, Tulsi, Gabbard, CIA Director Radcliffe, a number of other generals and top military officials where they talked for A very long time about their strategy of linking negotiations with Iran to a ceasefire in Gaza. And so those talks continue and we'll see in the coming days, you know, whether or not he's able to make a breakthrough. People are saying that this is the moment like and if this moment is lost, then you very well could be looking at endless war and occupation Gaza and then war with Iran, which because they now have this, if you believe them and it's a credible claim that they now have this intelligence about Israeli nuclear sites will not be a cost free strike on Iran.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, obviously. But I mean within the talks, Ryan, and you're looking at the camp, what happened in Camp David and then these enrichment claims, there's bluster. The Iranians are denying it. Do you think things are still moving in a more positive direction or.

[Tom Brokaw]

No, they're still moving. You had this fascinating comment from Trump where he said the Iranians, they are tough negotiations, almost too tough, but they're good. They're very good. They're very tough. And he loves tough guys.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah. Yes, he does.

[Tom Brokaw]

And so those are continuing. He loves Witkoff. He's still publicly saying that his red line is no enrichment. But privately the talks are allowing would allow enrichment so as long as they can. And also perhaps today the Iranian response is expected, which is supposed to be harsh, no.

[Ryan Seacrest]

But soft. Yes. Secret, yes.

[Tom Brokaw]

But here's what we would do.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I'm still relatively hopeful. The only thing that I think people need to be on alert for, as you know, is if the details of this come out and there is like enrichment. The neocon campaign against this will be an all timer. It will be one of the most titanic battles that we have seen yet because they are so activated already over Gaza, Iran is their next stop. They've character assassinated everything they can against Witkoff. More recently, did you see this whole brouhaha between Tucker Carlson and Mark Levin? Mark Levin apparently at the White House advocating for war with Iran. Every possible avenue that they have to convince Trump to abandon this is currently happening. And so I'm cautiously optimistic. But I would not be surprised if they're able to kill it. The amount of political machinery that they have at their disposal is just completely immense.

[Tom Brokaw]

Yeah, we may get war still.

[Ryan Seacrest]

We'll see. All right, thank you so much, Ryan. Great to be with you, my friend. As always, thank you to everybody who continues to support the show. BreakingPoints.com you can try out your free month there with BP free. Do we have a promo graphic there? It is breakingpoints.com BP free. Free monthly trial. And now Ryan and I have to wrap the show so we can do the AMA live here from the studio. Of course, that is available only to premium subscribers, so if that's something you want to take a look at, you can you can go ahead and sign up. Otherwise, Counterpoints will be on tomorrow with Crystal and Emily and I will see you all Thursday.

[Tom Brokaw]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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