6/1/26: Congress Tries To Intertwine US & Israeli Militaries, Graham Platner Scandal, Cenk Banned From UK

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - Episode Summary

Date: June 1, 2026
Episode Title: Congress Tries To Intertwine US & Israeli Militaries, Graham Platner Scandal, Cenk Banned From UK
Hosts: Krystal Ball & Sagar Enjeti
Guest Commentators: Brandon Weickert, Graham Platner, Cenk Uygur

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into three headline topics reflecting the tense intersections of U.S. foreign policy, ongoing political scandals, and debates on free speech:

1. Congressional moves toward deeper US-Israeli military-tech integration
2. The Graham Platner sexting scandal and its fallout in a key Senate race
3. Cenk Uygur and Hasan Piker being banned from the UK over criticism of Israel

As always, Krystal and Sagar analyze the stories with input from key guests and a signature blend of irreverence, skepticism, and deep concern for democratic transparency.

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1. Congress and Israel: Unprecedented Military-Tech Integration

[02:31-17:23]

Key Discussion Points

• Brandon Weickert’s Analysis: Section 224 of the NDAA (National Defense Authorization Act) goes far beyond previous forms of military cooperation, setting up formal, deep, and possibly irreversible technological and industrial linkages between the U.S. and Israel.
• Political Context: The provision is framed as pragmatic, but critics argue it bypasses waning bipartisan support for unconditional aid to Israel.
• Strategic Consequences: The change is portrayed as a backdoor guarantee that U.S.-Israeli defense cooperation remains locked in, regardless of future political shifts.

Memorable Quotes

• Brandon Weickert [03:31]:
  “The social media claim is that the US and Israeli militaries are merging — not quite accurate. The real issue here is bigger: This is infusing the US and Israeli defense and technology innovation bases. Once those become one, you can't disentangle them.”

• Krystal Ball [05:03]:
  “Congress is not merely encouraging cooperation. It is directing the Pentagon to actively search for Israeli technologies that could become part of the future US Military.”

• Brandon Weickert [06:04]:
  “This is a tighter relationship than even the special relationship between the United States and the United Kingdom... If the bill passes as written, this is tighter than US-NATO.”

Notable Segments

• Modern Warfare Realities [09:54-11:58]:
  Discussion of Israeli military mistakes in Lebanon and the broader evolution of warfare, with adversaries leveraging cheap drones and denial technologies to stymie Western armies.

• US Munitions Shortages [12:16-14:32]:
  Sagar references Pentagon supply estimates (“five years to replace 39 days of munitions used in the Iran war”). Weickert affirms these grim estimates, blaming supply-chain bottlenecks and highlighting the vulnerability of U.S. operational capacity.

• On the Iran War & “Ceasefire” [14:32-16:53]:
  Weickert expresses skepticism about Trump’s touted Iran ceasefire, arguing it’s a stalling tactic dictated by logistical weakness, not true diplomatic breakthrough.

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2. The Graham Platner Senate Sexting Scandal

[18:27-43:49]

Key Discussion Points

• The Scandal: A former campaign aide leaks that Graham Platner’s wife had flagged sexually explicit texts found early in their marriage to campaign staff, kicking off a round of tabloid feeding frenzy.

• Wife's Public Response: Amy Gertner, Platner’s wife, openly forgives him, framing the story as a private marital issue sensationalized and weaponized for political reasons.

  • Amy Gertner [21:50]:
    “We live in Sullivan, we've got two dogs, and we love each other deeply... I find it really shameful that there's a group of media outlets and people who are willing to spread gossip instead of talking about real issues that Graham is running on... I admire the f*ck out of him.”

• Media and Political Fallout:
  Krystal and Sagar discuss whether “personal morality” or recent infidelities are even disqualifying in modern American politics, comparing Platner’s case to a litany of far more scandalous (but politically Teflon) politicians.

Memorable Quotes

• Sagar Enjeti [25:43]:
  “I'm giving a survey of the people who are in the United States Senate. Ken Paxton, a literal serial adulterer, is the Republican nominee for Senate down in Texas… Some of my favorite presidents… FDR died at a home with his mistress. JFK—Google JFK, 19 year old girl, White House. It's horrific.”

• Krystal Ball [26:56]:
  “This is a scandal, but Susan Collins backing the Iraq war and now being in the Senate long enough to also back the Iran war ... You know, that's not a scandal, that's not a problem in judgment?... The way we view morality, or at least the way that sort of the Beltway media views morality, to me is really upside down...”

Notable Segments

• On "Moral Outrage" [31:07-33:29]:
  Debating whether personal character flaws matter at all in national politics; referencing Carter, FDR, Trump, Romney, and others.

• Analyst Hat: Will It Hurt Platner? [28:54-30:53]:
  Both hosts are deeply skeptical the story will meaningfully hurt Platner in Maine: “If his wife cared and they were getting a divorce, that's kind of different. But come on, what are we doing?” [Sagar, 37:01]

• Platner's Response [40:38-42:32]:
  Platner frames the coverage as “journalistic malpractice,” suggesting reports were based on gossip from a disgruntled staffer. Clarifies that some claims made were false but doesn't offer specifics, a move Krystal critiques as potentially prolonging the story.

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3. Cenk Uygur & Hasan Piker Banned From UK

[45:41-60:14]

Key Discussion Points

• Cenk’s Ordeal: Turned away at the airport due to an active decision by the British government, apparently in response to his statements regarding the influence of the Israeli lobby on American politics.
• Freedom of Speech & Western “Values”:
  Discussed as a test case revealing the hypocrisy of Western governments who trumpet free speech while censoring critics of Israel.

Memorable Quotes

• Cenk Uygur [47:01]:
  “At first I thought it was a bureaucratic snafu. Then when I realized it was an active decision, we all knew that Israel had made it... they said, well, you say that Western governments control Israel. Israel controls the Western governments too much. So since Israel controls us, you're now banned on behalf of Israel.”

• Cenk Uygur [48:01]:
  “…they banned me for saying something that is true... almost every news person should be banned... most of them are mainstream media, so they hide that fact.”

• Krystal Ball [52:03]:
  “I’ve seen you be critical of Russia, Saudi Arabia... No one says oh, you’re anti-Muslim, or you can’t come to my country because you criticized another nation. But with Israel... you get banned.”

• Cenk Uygur [55:49]:
  “If they say, well that’s the equivalent of a guy saying that Hitler is cool... you’ve taken the power away from actual bigotry and anti-Semitism and fighting it... screaming anti-Semitism when none exists... is ironically doing damage to that cause.”

• Sagar Enjeti [58:39]:
  “I’m very rarely shocked. When I heard that you guys were banned, I was stunned. This is the Anglosphere, our cousins... it's the flight to the UK which got you banned. Absolutely unbelievable.”

Notable Segments

• On Hypocrisy and Influence [54:43-56:47]:
  Cenk lays out the double standard applied to criticism of Israel versus other lobbies and countries, decrying the chilling effect on public discourse.

• On the Precedent and Future [56:47-58:39]:
  Cenk and the hosts discuss whether this type of ban could be extended to any public critic and the risk of normalizing state censorship across the West.

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Key Episode Takeaways

• US-Israel Tech Integration: New legislation is cementing a level of military and tech interdependence that may prove politically and logistically irreversible—raising questions about policy flexibility and sovereignty.
• Platner Scandal: Voters’ tolerance for personal indiscretions is high as long as political leaders are seen as fighting for the “right” policies; meanwhile, establishment resistance often increases outsider appeal.
• Free Speech & US/UK/Israel: The censorship of both left-wing and critical voices on Israel reflects a dangerous erosion of the very liberal values Western governments claim to uphold—exposing rank hypocrisy about who is allowed to speak out against which centers of power.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• US-Israel Military Tech Integration: [02:31-17:23]
  • NDAA Section 224 breakdown: [02:31-06:04]
  • Risks of irreversible integration: [06:04-09:54]
  • Modern warfare and US military deficiencies: [09:54-14:32]
  • Iran war “ceasefire” skepticism: [14:32-16:53]
• Graham Platner Scandal: [18:27-43:49]
  • Scandal background and media response: [18:27-23:26]
  • Personal morality vs public service: [25:43-33:29]
  • Platner’s response: [40:38-42:32]
• Cenk Uygur Banned Story: [45:41-60:14]
  • Description of the incident: [45:53-48:01]
  • Analysis of “special ally” influence, hypocrisy: [49:10-55:49]
  • Broader implications for free speech: [56:47-59:43]

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Tone and Style

The episode is marked by a blend of deep policy analysis, righteous indignation, and blunt humor. The original frankness, irreverence, and skepticism of the hosts and guests are maintained throughout, with frequent references to realpolitik, establishment hypocrisy, and the disconnect between public morality narratives and actual government conduct.

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For More

• Visit breakingpoints.com for unedited, ad-free episodes and additional analysis.

Transcript

[Krystal Ball]

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[Cenk Uygur]

What's up, y'?

[Sagar Enjeti]

All?

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[Krystal Ball]

I turned off news altogether. I hate to say it, but I

[Sagar Enjeti]

don't trust much of anything.

[Krystal Ball]

It's the rage.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Bait

[Krystal Ball]

feels like it's trying to divide people.

[Sagar Enjeti]

We got clear facts. Maybe we can calm down a little.

[Brandon Weickert]

NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there.

[Cenk Uygur]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

Hey guys, Sager and Krystal here.

[Krystal Ball]

Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.

[Sagar Enjeti]

This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.

[Krystal Ball]

So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

[Sagar Enjeti]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see [e-mail] joining us now is our great friend, Brandon Weickert. He is the new author of Weikart on Substack where there will be a link down in the description. And Brandon, for our purposes dissected a new highly controversial piece of legislation which was snuck into a congressional bill. Let's go and put this up here on the screen from Brandon. Congress is quietly making Israel a permanent pillar of US Military modernization. You write Brandon, Buried deep within the NDAA is a provision that serves far more attention on its face. Section224, the United States Israel Defense Technology Cooperation Initiative, appears to be a routine measure designed to improve military cooperation between these two long standing allies. In reality, it may represent something much larger. Indeed, it is unprecedented. Break it down for us, Brandon. This is getting quite a lot of attention.

[Brandon Weickert]

Yeah. So the social media claim is that while the US and Israel militaries are merging, it's not quite accurate and actually it might actually be better for restraining Israel if our officers had more control in some ways over the idf. But ultimately the real issue here, and in many ways it's bigger than if we were just merging command structures. This is infusing of the US and Israeli defense and technology innovation bases. And once the those things are together, and I kind of track it in my article, once those things become one, you can't disentangle those two things. Which I think is the point because Crystal, and I mean you know this from your the Democrats have been really at the forefront of sort of becoming skeptical of Israel. And then of course the Republicans are now the young people on the right are kind of following that suit. But ultimately the Israelis know that in the long run they cannot rely on on foreign aid as it is currently structured coming to them because the next generation is rising in both parties and both sides are skeptical of Israel. So the Israelis have to be afraid that they're going to get cut off if they do it this way though this is a backdoor way for Israel to ensure not only it continues to receive aid through this section, but also it allows them to basically have access to our entire tech base.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Wow.

[Krystal Ball]

So let me read a little bit of your piece here. You say Section 224 goes well beyond traditional forms of cooperation that we already have with Israel. You say the legislation directs the Secretary of Defense to appoint a dedicated executive agent to synchronize bilateral defense technology efforts. That official will be tasked with identifying Israeli origin technologies that could be incorporated into US programs of record, facilitating their transition from research projects into actual procurement pipelines and promoting industrial partnerships and co production arrangements between American and Israeli firms. In other words, Congress is not merely encouraging cooperation. It is directing the Pentagon to actively search for Israeli technologies that could become part of the future US Military. And you paint a portrait of this integration, making it very difficult, if you had a future president who had a different view of the US Israel relationship, to unwind this relationship and also make it very difficult for a future Congress that may have other ideas to step back from what we are doing with regard to Israel with. Without hurting our own national security.

[Brandon Weickert]

That's 100% correct. And you know, this also. This is sort of quietly being admitted now, but it's an implied admission by our D.C. elites, both parties, that the U.S. defense industrial base, despite subject, you know, possibly getting $1.5 trillion next year, can't produce advanced technology reliably on its own. So now it's having to pivot and go to, you know, other countries and say, hey, we need your stuff. So that's also sort of a subtext here, which is the. Another significant crisis. But the whole thing here with Israel is, yes, they are a partner, but. But they have their own agenda, as all countries do. Why do we keep enmeshing ourselves with other countries that do not share our exact values or strategic outlook at the level that we currently are? This is a tighter relationship. If the bill passes, as it's written, this a tighter relationship than even the special relationship between the United States and the United Kingdom. It will be closer than the US and NATO's relationship. And we saw with Jonathan Pollard in the 80s, you know, there, you know, the Israelis will deploy spies or use spies to steal our stuff and then sell it to the highest bidder for their own purposes, throwing us under the bus. Imagine what they're going to be able to do with access to our most advanced quantum computing, biotech, et cetera. Research.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, and let's go start, actually with the D1 guys. I'll read from some of this. So this is a field report from Lebanon. There is a growing debate over the military significance of Beaufort Castle, which observers are saying after 15 months of war, Israeli forces reached a symbolic historical site less than 4 km from the border. Rather than capturing a key resistance stronghold, they contend the castle's value is primarily media and psychological, not operational. Brandon, you want to break some of this down? A castle which literally dates back to. What is it? The First. I'm gonna get my crusades mixed up. It's one of the Crusades.

[Brandon Weickert]

I think it's the First Crusade.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I might be wrong. Castle goes to the First Crusade. Clearly of significance to say we basically are the conquering heroes, the party. And it's a message to the world about this messianic enterprise that they're on.

[Brandon Weickert]

Yeah, that's exactly right. And whenever armies start engaging in symbolic, ideological, sort of sideshows, which is what this is at the expense of tactical and strategic, it doesn't usually end well for the invading army. And so this does look to me like the Israelis are saying we're not going anywhere. In fact, we're gonna expand our footprint. In fact, you know, they're moving beyond the Litany river at great cost to themselves. You know, you had the IDF chief of staff twice now come out in the last four weeks saying if we keep going at this operational tempo, the IDF will be broken in southern Lebanon because they can't sustain the logistics chain. They can't keep losing. I mean, Merkava main battle tanks, upwards of 60 to 70 have been destroyed because they keep sending these things down the gut and the Hezbollah just keeps popping them off like the, the Ukrainians did in the beginning of the Ukraine war against those Russian tanks. So you see the IDF making really, really silly mistakes that you saw in World War II, that you're seeing silly mistakes now that are repeating what's happening in Ukraine. This is not A, going to end well for them, but B, it certainly means the Israelis are expanding their footprint. We're tethered to that now. And the question is, are we going to go further and now enmesh our technology base with whatever the heck they're planning to do in Israel?

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, Brandon, talk a little bit about what both Ukraine war and Iran's successful ability to repel our attacks and do tremendous damage to our bases across the region. And now Hezbollah, using these fiber opt optic drones has really been able to exact a lot of damage on Israel. I mean, there is an article right now in Haaretz that says manufactured nostalgia for Lebanon's Beaufort masks a strategic failure. I mean, they are taking a lot of blows there and have not been able to achieve what they wanted to achieve. Putting all these things together, what does this tell you about the reality of modern warfare?

[Brandon Weickert]

It shows us that our strategic rivals in Iran, Russia, China, and I'm just using that term kind of, you know, academically here, strategic rivals, because I know there's some argument about whether. But the point is, technically our strategic rivals have leapfrogged the US Military and the militaries of our allies with these denial technologies. They figured out the way you stop American and allied power projection in their Parts of the world is with, with lots and lots of cheap drones, missiles and even sometimes hypersonic weapons, which is a technology we have not yet fully developed or have defenses against. And as you brought up the Ukraine and Iran wars together, and this has sort of been what I've been the drum I've been banging for the last week, in my opinion, if you look at the southern end of Ukraine where the Russians are, and you look at the northern end of Iran, there is only a 621 mile gap between those two fronts. So if things continue as I suspect they will, I do not believe there will be any deals in either war. If things continue, you could see the ultimate coming together of those two conflicts in a true world war. And that's what I've been tracking and that's what I'm afraid of. And frankly, our rivals have figured out how to stymie the American war machine. $1.5 trillion. What's it getting us? One strategic defeat after another.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It is crazy, Brandon. And you know, actually, let's have you address this. So I recently it was the CSIS chart, but I'll describe it to you, Brandon. And I was ridiculed for saying this. I said it will take five years to replace 39 days of munitions used in the Iran war. It was called liar. An American decliner. Apparently all I did was post chart.

[Brandon Weickert]

Ryan McBeth went after you. I saw that. He went after me too, apparently.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Okay, so let's get into it then. So all I did was post his chart which said estimated return to pre war inventory. That's it. Where it says for Tomahawk, late 2030, early 2031, for Thaad, mid to late 2029. You just referenced our timeline. An industrial base for $1.5 trillion. Why does it make it so vulnerable to the studying of the Iran conflict and of Ukraine whenever we have timelines like that? Or are the timelines fake as he's saying?

[Brandon Weickert]

No, I don't think the timelines are fake. I know that's what the Hawks are saying. About a month ago, I was at an undisclosed military facility in Georgia. They had me on a panel with three Hawks versus me. They spent the entire time strafing me. But ultimately they couldn't answer the basic fact. If there's the secret supply somewhere, why haven't we seen it yet? And of course the answer is there's no secret supply. And actually, my newest article on my substack, I actually took part of what you were saying and I expanded on it because Ryan Macbeth Also went after me, apparently. The bottom line here is this is math, okay? Math is like gravity. You can't, you can only resist it for so long. And the bottom line is it may take 30 days to assemble a single Tomahawk cruise missile. But this isn't like an Ikea, you know, piece of furniture. This is a highly complex system. If you have bottlenecks in the underlying supply chain, the rocket motor, the rocket fuel, the rare earth minerals that China has control over, that 30 day timeline to assemble is extended for however long the bottleneck lasts. And so I actually said saga, I think, I think your timeline is too optimistic. This might be more than six years to seven years, especially if current operational tempo remains the same or increases. The defense industrial base in 14 key weapons systems, precision guided munitions like the Tomahawk, but also these air defense interceptors, those 14 munitions they can't keep up with, they're depleting faster than they can replace. And at some point we're going to have to switch munitions. And I think actually that is informing Trump's ceasefire right now is that he's trying to buy time for, for a little bit more of these systems to be built. I don't believe this is a real ceasefire.

[Krystal Ball]

Can you talk a little bit more about that? Because you did mention earlier you don't think that, that we are likely to see a deal.

[Brandon Weickert]

Yeah, well, there's no, there's no stasis in the, in the, the argument between Iran and the United States. I mean the fundamental issue is there's no way Iran is giving up control over the, the Strait of Hormuz, not without them getting, you know, those transit fees and service fees, which is similar to what Turkey does, by the way, in the Turkish Straits. But that's another issue. There's no way. And then also this nuclear, the nuclear dust, the blessed dust. The bottom line with that is the Iranians have just proven even by just threatening to have nuclear weapons, they can break the back and the will of the US and Israeli joint forces. We fought them for four months, almost now to a standstill. And the Iranian regime is still the Iranian reg. We are the ones seeking immediate relief to all of their pressure. They're not gonna stop because they don't have to stop. So I think what Trump is doing is he's trying to calm the markets, claiming he's got a ceasefire. But even if he gets the ceasefire crystal, that's only a 60 day memorandum of understanding. What happens on day 61? Cuz we are told that the President is insisting on day 61, they're gonna meet with the Iranians and finally hash out the nuclear issue. Why would the Iranians give up the nuclear dust? They wouldn't. It's too much of an advantage for them. Second of all, in this proposed deal, the 60 day moratorium, the Iranians have up to 30 days to get out of the to let up control of the Strait of Hormuz for the remainder of that temporary deal. What makes anybody think that the Iranians are just going to slow down their control until maybe day 30? So we're gonna go another 30 days of Iranian blockade of the Strait of Hormuz. This not boating. Well, and so there's no incentive. And frankly, Trump cannot obviously negotiate for two reasons. He's going to look weak, he'll look like he lost. And the Israeli factor. Netanyahu can't afford to have the war end. So we are just in a pause until some greater positioning can be had and then I fear the war will begin. Or we'll just be in a permanent frozen conflict, which again, straight up. Hormuz remains closed. The economy collapses in either event.

[Sagar Enjeti]

What a disaster. Everybody go subscribe. Brandon. Brandon, Substack. As you just saw, excellent analysis and deep.

[Krystal Ball]

And if I could just say as well, Brandon is on the right. He's taken a lot of professional risk to tell the truth about this war. So please, guys, consider going and throwing

[Brandon Weickert]

darts in Mar A Lago.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, he does great work and he also really deserves and earns your genuine

[Sagar Enjeti]

personal sacrifice, which is rare for somebody who actually just wants to say, what do you think? So we support you 100%. We hope everybody else will as well. You. See you later, man.

[Brandon Weickert]

Thank you.

[Cenk Uygur]

See ya.

[Krystal Ball]

I turned off news altogether. I hate to say it, but I

[Sagar Enjeti]

don't trust much of anything.

[Ryan Seacrest]

It's the rage bait.

[Krystal Ball]

It feels like it's trying to divide people.

[Sagar Enjeti]

We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little.

[Brandon Weickert]

NBC News brings you Clear reports reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there.

[Cenk Uygur]

NBC News reporting for America.

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[Cenk Uygur]

And

[Krystal Ball]

I find it really shameful that there's a group of media outlets and people who are willing to spread gossip instead of talking about real issues that Graham is, is running on, like health care and education and childcare. I knew the man that I married had been through an immense amount of violent active combat and he's been in therapy for years. I just. I admire the fuck out of him. So when there are news articles about our marriage, it's just extra shitty. Can I say that online? Yes, Amy, yes. So, Zagar, I think it's disgusting that this aide brought these texts, the existence of these texts to the press. I don't see how it's anybody's business when she has forgiven him. And they've worked through this in marriage counseling. And it's sort of crazy to me that of all the revelations about Graham Platner, this seems to be the one that is, you know, generating the most heat and most attention. But I think it's because at this point, you know, he is the Democratic nominee de facto. Janet Mills has dropped out of the race and his positioning is really anathema to a lot of the Democratic establishment. So I'll get your reaction. Then we can show how some of the centrist Dems are already out, like, yeah, maybe low key, we'd rather have Susan Collins, which is crazy to me.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I mean, it is an immense breach in terms of the campaign woman who leaked these text messages, or at least leaked the existing of these text messages. Zooming out a little bit. I mean, in terms of public People, unfortunately, we now live in a world where your entire personal life is under scrutiny. If a media outlet had found this, it would have been fair game, but the fact that they were egged on by a campaign operative is pretty crazy. Yeah, and I'm sure people would expect me to be on some soapbox here, but honestly, I mean, this is entirely fitting with everything that we know about Graham Platner, who is as typical of a Marine who served in Iraq as humanly possible. If you've ever watched this series, Generation Kill, or read the book, I highly recommend the book. It's one of the best books ever written about the war. Platter is basically a character in either that book and or that series. So if you haven't seen it, I highly recommend it. Especially fitting with his. A lot of it is Reddit tier gossip and where he was boasting about jerking off in a porta potty literally out of something like in Generation K.

[Krystal Ball]

I don't know that he was boasting about. More disgusting.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Stating the reality what life was like for him while he was posted abroad. I was laughing while watching because I was like, dude, this is like Generation Kill. I was like, it's like a time shot out of the 2003 book that it was set in. But yeah, zooming out. Here's the deal, right, with Graham, it's between him and his wife. And so did I think what he did was bad. Yeah, I think it's horrible. However, she's chosen to forgive him and to stay with him. I believe that they're currently trying for a baby. And ultimately, look, I'm pro marriage. I'm also pro babies. And so, you know, the marriage are difficult. I don't condone this behavior. I think it's bad. But the fact that she wants to stick with him. Yeah, I think, I wouldn't say great or not. It's value neutral. And that's up to her. That's up to him. In terms of the discourse, I am fascinated by this because am I living in some Pollyannish world where we thought that our politicians were like the most upstanding moral citizens? Donald Trump is President of the United States. And then if we were to take a look at some of Platner's colleagues, why don't anybody Google Ruben Gallego divorce or Chris Murphy, one of the people we're about to talk about here, who himself recently got some interesting circumstances, or

[Krystal Ball]

Ken Paxton, in fairness to Chris Murphy, he is taking Graham's side right now. I know he is not being a hypocrite at least I'm giving a survey

[Sagar Enjeti]

of the people who are in the United States Senate. Ken Paxton, a literal serial adulterer with embroiled in a financial like, corruption scandal involving his mistress, is the Republican nominee for Senate down in Texas. Some of my favorite presidents. It's repulsive. Just, even FDR died at a home with his mistress. Okay, JFK, Google, JFK. 19 year old girl, White House. It's horrific. LBJ, literally orgies on Air Force One. I'm not saying this is some sort of titillating thing. I'm just giving example of like, like, yeah, I mean, sometimes it's just about who the leader is and what they're gonna do for you. And sometimes you gotta take a step back and say, all right, now the bigger question I think comes down to judgment. Did he show bad judgment? Yes. Now that said, do the people who presume and present as some public upstanding moral citizen and then it secretly are also having like insane turmoil in their current life and then perpetuating policies which you don't like? Like, is that better? I mean, that's a question for all Americans to decide.

[Krystal Ball]

Right, but this is such an important point, Sagar, that you're hitting on here like, okay, this is a scandal, but Susan Collins backing the Iraq war and now being in the Senate long enough to also back the Iran war and sending young men and women off to die, including Graham Platner's comrades who he served with. You know, that's not a scandal, that's not a problem in judgment. I mean, the way we view morality, or at least the way that sort of the Beltway media views morality, to me is really upside down in terms of what you would want in a public servant. Now you could decide whether this is the type of person that you would wanna, like, you know, be married to. Amy Gardner knows the full picture and said, yes, I do. I love this man. We're going to work through it. We're going to go through marriage counseling. That is a different question. But, but, you know, as another example, Chuck Schumer decided to attend this Israel Day parade with freaking Bezalel Smotrich, who is the most grotesque war criminal you can possibly imagine. Is that a scandal? Is that, you know, titillating media outlets and leading news coverage on cnn, et cetera? No, of course not. So, look, I'm curious what you think the, the political fallout will be. I have a feeling voters in Maine are going to shrug this off like they've shrugged off all of the other things that were supposed to be disqualifying for Graham Platner. I do think he has a bit of a. Not to compare him and Trump, cuz I don't think, you know, the landscape is exactly the same. But I do think he has a bit of a Trumpian quality where he can push through, quote, unquote scandals in a way that other politicians can't get away with. Yeah. And because he has so effectively communicated, you know, the message and the position of the Democratic base, and really not just to the Democratic base, but to the broader public that people want to hear about checking oligarchic power that that is compelling enough for people to be like, yeah, let's just overlook this messy personal stuff.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Look, I'm putting my analyst hat on. I mean, the idea that this is gonna be some scandal in me, it's so ridiculous. Like, I'm sorry, you know, Ryan made a great point. There are only a few hundred thousand people who vote in Maine. You could actually conceivably meet most of the politically engaged people in that state.

[Krystal Ball]

Graham knows many of them. It's a small snake.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Like, this is not Texas, this is not California, where the national, the media culture matters more than anything. Cause that's the only way that you're gonna be able to meet somebody. Right. Or social media or any of these. This is actually like some of the last vestiges of literally like barnstorming every county or whatever. Sorry, Maine. I'm not that familiar with your structure, but they're counties. I think so too. I never know with some of these places, parishes, whatever. So with Maine, you know, it's, it's a small, a tiny state. It has a very, very small number of people who are actually politically engaged, as far as I know. Literally has only one major city. So it doesn't seem that hard to actually go around and meet people, to hold events. And ultimately America is telling us a very clear message. From Paxton to Platner to Trump, your personal life and your upstanding moral character does not matter. What matters is what are you going to do for me? And I think, by the way, I don't think that's necessarily a good thing, but I do think it is reflective of an establishment culture where we had people who were presentable, you know, presentably outward facing, quote, upstanding moral people who got us into. I mean, look, W. All right, W is a good example. W. As far as I know, he didn't cheat on his wife. He was a recovering cocaine addict and a drunk. He found God and he was touched and all that. He was a disaster. I think he's a good guy. I really do. Like in terms of his own personal character. But as you just said about Iraq, I mean, that didn't translate to good judgment. That didn't translate to being a good president. It was a complete fucking disaster.

[Krystal Ball]

That's part of the reason why Andy Moore.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Andy Moore, of course. But I'm saying, like what?

[Krystal Ball]

We often took personal morality.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Personal. I'm trying to think of other people who presented that way where these politicians and a lot of Jimmy Carter. Perfect. Oh my God. Perfect, right?

[Krystal Ball]

Saint of a man.

[Sagar Enjeti]

He was. Yeah, the saint. Habitat for Humanity. He was a disaster, an absolute disaster. I made this case actually before Trump, but let me make, I'll give you the counter to this. Before Trump, Lex Friedman, you can go and look it up. We have a long exchange about whether the personal character of a president matters. And I said, no, I said, no, it doesn't. And I said, there's so much history whenever we go back and I look and I just talked about jfk, I talked about lbj, I talked about fdr, I talk about Grant, who himself was a fool, fell for a number of different financial scams, literally almost died penniless. And that's part of the reason he had to write his memoir. A lot of these people display bad judgment in deep and horrible ways of their personal life where if I knew them people personally, I would judge the hell out of them. However, they ended up doing great things. But I made that case about Trump. Now I could also say that Trump's venality and his obsession with himself I think has been a disaster.

[Krystal Ball]

But that's an important point. It's not the womanizing.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Right, Right.

[Krystal Ball]

I don't care about that. The issue for it's, it's that venality, it's the narcissism, it's the self dealing and that it's, it's the corrupt behavior that has been there throughout his entire. I mean, he is a con artist. That is what he, at his core is great at doing. He's great at creating an illusion and selling that illusion. That is the character failing. That I think has been, you know, really devastating and, and does actually matter in terms of the, you know, the way that Trump has conducted himself in office.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, I take your point. And part of what was the devil's bargain? The devil's bargain was, yeah, we know he's a narcissistic, self dealing casino con man. We think it's different than I just laid out all Mitt Romney. Mitt Romney seems like a good guy. Built his wife an elevator when she had Ms. He's got, you know, a giant. He's got like a giant family. The family port. Mitt Romney's family life is exactly what I want my family life life to look like, as opposed to somebody like Donald Trump. All right? If I'm ever cheating on my wife, bragging about my sexual exploits to the New York Post, please put a bullet in my head. Right? So I would much rather look like Romney, but would I wanna live under a country like Rom? No, actually. And so, look, I mean, you're not wrong, but I will say with Platner, in terms of his record, we don't know. A lot of it is promises. He's a lot like John Fetterman in terms of his upstart nature. He's never held. Held public office.

[Krystal Ball]

He certainly had held public. I guess that's fair, actually.

[Sagar Enjeti]

No, good point.

[Krystal Ball]

He hasn't had a. He hasn't had a stroke, though, which I do genuinely think is the reason why Fetterman has become a different person. But, but, but I'm also the red.

[Sagar Enjeti]

We don't.

[Krystal Ball]

The red flag with Fetterman was his position on Israel, which he basically just allowed that time.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I don't remember.

[Krystal Ball]

He. Ryan did the reporting on this. Fetterman just basically went to, I think it was DMFI and was like, like, tell me what you want my Israel position to be and I will adopt it, and that way you won't spend against me. So that. And the whole, like, chasing down some, you know, unarmed black dude that he, you know, that whole thing, there were some red flags there. But another point, Sagar, that I think is worth considering, just as we're making the Trump comparison, is, you know, when Trump first came on the scene, the fact that the Republican establishment, which was hated, was so aggressively against him was a signal to a lot of voters, Republicans and otherwise, that they judged him by his enemies. The fact the media hated him, the Republican establishment hated him, the liberal establishment hated him, they're like, there must be something there. And I think that there's a bit of that with Graham right now with the Democratic Party, because I'd have to dig into the numbers. But the more that came out about his Reddit, whatever, and his tattoo, et cetera, the more he searched in the polls. And so I think you have a Democratic base certainly that is disenchanted with Democratic leadership. So when they saw, like, Chuck Schumer does not want this guy that means I do want this guy. And I think that one of the biggest risks for him going into the general election was the Democratic brand is such trash. The minute you have Chuck Schumer coming to campaign for you or whatever, voters may go, oh, I don't know if this is really what we're going for. So in a weird way, I think the fact that he continues to generate these cycles of upset against him, I think it could have a similar effect as what happened with Trump, where people looked at the fact that the media and liberal establishment, Republican establishment, all hated him so much and said, this guy is over the target. Cuz I've even seen some sort of anti Israel conservative who have been defending him and effectively saying like, oh, we all know why he's being attacked so aggressively. Yes, it's true, because of his position on Israel and also his position on oligarchy, which are both anathema to the established order.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Who can deny that? This is, it's so obvious, it's just all about Israel. If you hate the guy cuz he's against Israel, then just say it. Don't invent all this bullshit. Not when Trump, the three time philanderer is president and you guys worship the ground he walks on. Shuts up, shut the fuck up. Like, this is stuff that just drives me absolutely crazy. And I'm telling you this again, as somebody, I would love to live in a more moral world. I would love to live in a place where cheating on your wife is like a gigantic scandal, should be okay, you should be humiliated for it, which I guess he has, his wife has forgiven him, that's her business. But beyond that, it's like, that's not how the country is feeling right now. Message after message after message. If you can stand up for what I want, then we don't care how you generally conduct yourself in your personal life. And you're absolutely right to compare. Remember the grabbing by the pussy tape was supposed to literally be a campaign ender. A lot of people thought that, they're like, nobody could survive it. It hardened Trump's support, it hardened it when. Who was that woman in New Hampshire? I'm totally blanking on Ayotte Kelly. Ayotte, the senator?

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, yeah, right.

[Sagar Enjeti]

She's like, oh, we gotta denounce him. Paul Ryan, he wins, he win. Not only he wins, but then we do all these, you know, remember all those soul searching interviews in New York Times? They're like, we went to a diner in Ohio and they say the tape doesn't bother them. Yeah, no shit, right? You know, in retrospect, because for them, we tried Romney, we tried, we tried McCain, he was a war hero, right? All of this lost, lost, lost, lost. Trump was the only one. He stood up on immigration, he stood up on trade. Those are the two things that we care about. We need to stand up against the left. That's how platner is, right? D +14 in terms of main on the generic battle. Need I say more? This is all bullshit now. Actually, Matt Iglesias wrote a piece about this. I read it. A glimpse into the centrist mind and he's like, you know, he's like Platner, even though he's a Democratic nominee, presumptive, is just obsessed with going to war with the party's establishment. And I was like, yeah, dude, that's the point. Like, that's the whole point of his candidacy. And also at this point, Platner's gotta be thinking a little bit about how do I wanna govern, like how do I actually want to be a United States Senator? And it's very obvious, not just in terms of the voters who obviously desire something like this, but he wants to do something very different than how the currently people in office are. And that is simply the age we live in. From Republican to Democrat. There's why Paxton it was, by the way. I think Paxton would have won even if Cornyn had been endorsed by Trump. Texas GOP fed up with John Cornyn establishment been here forever. Oh, he doesn't even know what he's doing. We live in a very anti establishmentarian age and Platner is just another example of that. The latest iteration of somebody to come out. So no, I don't think it will hurt him whatsoever in terms of his polling and if anything will have a Trump like effect of making people feel like they're out to get him. Especially cuz his wife doesn't even care. If his wife cared and they were getting a divorce, that's kind of different. But come on, like, what are we doing?

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, they're, they're like you said, they're, you know, actively having, trying to have a baby right now and struggling with fertility is something that many, many couples struggle with. We should probably. I don't really feel like playing Cory Booker or Michael LaRosa, but suffice it to say that you've got them and Neera Tanden and others. Centrist Democrats are supposed to be Vogue blue no matter who. Who all of a sudden are like, oh, I don't know about Graham Platner. It's like, dude, you know, do you mean what you say about Donald Trump and about these, the problems that he has created and the threat that he represents to the country and the world? If you do, then there's no problem here. And of course, the obvious parallels to Zoran Mamdani, who is as squeaky clean as you could possibly get. And still you had Chuck Schumer refusing to endorse him and other, you know, Kirsten Gillibrand coming out and calling him a jihadist. You know, it's not an accident that the candidates who are critical of Israel in a way that goes against the democratic establishment are the ones that suddenly they get reservations about. Oh, I don't know if I can get behind this particular person. So, anyway, you've had a lot of that with Graham, but I do want to play his response to make sure we get that on the record. He actually claims, and I want to listen to his wording here carefully, he claims that some of what is reflected in the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times articles is not exactly accurate, but he doesn't really elaborate on what that means. Means it appears that he and Amy, you know, have both accepted that these text messages are a real thing that that happened. But in any case, let's go ahead and play E6 so we can hear Graham's response.

[Cenk Uygur]

Grammy heard Amy's video, saw Amy's video

[Brandon Weickert]

last night about this situation. The story in the Times and the Journal.

[Sagar Enjeti]

What would your statement be at this point?

[Graham Platner]

It's. It's no surprise to me that the establishment media outlets are just going to run gossip instead of wanting to talk about the things that actually matter in this race, which are the material realities that Maynard are working with. These people are going to try to make this race about anything but what it's supposed to be about, which is policy. They never want to talk about policy. Amy and I have a very loving and very happy marriage. They would very much like to try to rip that apart. They're going to come after us in every awful way that they possibly can. And we're just going to keep talking about the fact that the hospitals are closing, the fact that child care facilities are closing, the fact that teachers and nurses aren't paid enough, and the fact that everybody down here continues to work harder and longer and get less. But of course, the powers that be do not want us to talk about that, and so they're going to just do gossip instead.

[Sagar Enjeti]

But the stories are true, right? About the texts?

[Graham Platner]

No, no, this is, this is the amazing part The Wall Street Journal, New York Times ran stories without any evidence besides the gossip from a former staffer. I'm sorry, that's. That's frankly, journalistic malpractice. We pushed back on it. They won it. They did it anyways, so.

[Krystal Ball]

So are you confirming that the messages did not exist?

[Graham Platner]

What's that?

[Krystal Ball]

The messages, they did not.

[Graham Platner]

I'm confirming that what Genevieve McDonald said in the New York Times is not true.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So you never met with her about uncomfortable, for lack of a better word, sexting messages?

[Graham Platner]

As the campaign was going, we talked about things in Amy and I's marriage that we've gone through over the years. We talked about that because that's our marriage, and we discussed it with the campaign. What Genevieve McDonald claims isn't true.

[Krystal Ball]

So I'm not sure exactly what he means by that. And I think it's a bit of a mistake to open up this door because now you just raise more questions about, like, okay, well, what do you mean? Well, what part is not true? It just continues. Continues the story.

[Sagar Enjeti]

His campaign came out.

[Krystal Ball]

Take your lumps, you know, and say, like, the initial messaging of, like, this is not what people care about. True, Right. And then, you know, this is our. Where this is a private matter in our marriage that we've worked through, and we're moving forward, opening up this line of inquiry of like, okay, well, what part of it is true? Well, what part of is not true? Well, what about the this and then that? I, you know, I don't think that that was a smart move on his part.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It was ridiculous. He was like, oh, his campaign came out, and I was like, well, the part about Genevieve McDonald, that part wasn't true. We're not saying that. It's like, dude, just cut your losses, man. Yeah, pull a Trump locker room talk, whatever. Get over it. In fact, you should turn it on the journalist. Be like, are you a pervert? Do you enjoy reading my sexual messages? Which one was your favorite?

[Krystal Ball]

That's not what.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I'm serious.

[Krystal Ball]

I wouldn't be in position.

[Sagar Enjeti]

But that's what I would do if I were a comms director. I'd be like, oh, yeah, you're a sick, disgusting pervert. You're, like, looking at pictures of me shirtless and be like, are you gay? That's what I would do. But, you know, nobody wants to take advice for me.

[Krystal Ball]

For the flatner champagne.

[Sagar Enjeti]

All right, Cenk Uygur standing by. Let's get to him.

[Krystal Ball]

I turned off news altogether. I hate to say it, but I

[Sagar Enjeti]

don't trust much of anything.

[Brandon Weickert]

It's the rage bait.

[Krystal Ball]

It feels like it's trying to divide people.

[Sagar Enjeti]

We got clear facts. Maybe we can calm down a little.

[Brandon Weickert]

NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there.

[Cenk Uygur]

NBC News reporting for America.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Cenk Uygur]

Points.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Cenk Uygur]

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[Krystal Ball]

So we have a very special guest this morning, founder of Tyt, Cenk Uygur, who has a little personal story that he would like to share with our audience because it certainly has relevance to, I think, all of us. Cenk, great to see you as always.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Good to see you, man.

[Cenk Uygur]

Good to see you guys.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. So tell us what's been going on.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah. So I went to the airport yesterday. I'm going to London. I'm going to speak, or was going to speak at south by Southwest London and then in Oxford a couple of times. One speech by myself and then one speech with my nephew, Hasan Piker. Was going to be kind of an interesting moment. My sister was coming. It's a good moment for her, right? And I get to the airport and they tell me that I've been rejected by the British government and they won't let me board the plane. Plane. And I honestly had no idea what they were talking about in the beginning. I'm like, what do you mean? No, I already have a visa and they're like, sorry, the British government says you're not allowed in the country. And only 20 minutes later did I see the article from Times of London explaining why. Although we all knew, didn't we? I mean, at first I thought it was like a bureaucratic snafu. Then when I realized it was an active decision, we all knew that Israel had made it. And then, of course, ironically, they said, well, you say that Western governments control Israel. Israel controls the Western governments too much. So since Israel controls us, you're now

[Krystal Ball]

banned on behalf of Israel. We are going to ban you for saying that Israel has so much influence on our governments. And I mean, it's crazy because, well, do you know anything specific about what you said that they found to be so objectionable? You. And by the way, Hasan, also banned from the country. Going to speak also at south by Southwest and with you at Ox Oxford. Do you have any specifics about what it is that the two of you have said that's just so unconscionable that you can't even be allowed on British soil?

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, I mean, that's. First of all, let's note that I think we're the only family that has been banned from Britain, had two family members banned from Britain. So I guess that makes us the most dangerous family in British history.

[Graham Platner]

I don't know.

[Cenk Uygur]

This is so hilarious and absurd, but it's. But at the same time, look, when I got that news at the airport, I felt like a little bit of my freedom had been taken away, my freedom of movement. And it didn't feel good. And. And we can't have our open societies not be open anymore. And so this is outrageous. So they said, Crystal, that according to the Times of London, because they've never talked to me directly, that I said that Israel controls the American Congress because they've given the most in this last election cycle. The Israeli lobby has. And they said that's incorrect. That's actually correct. That is a factual statement. So they literally banned me for saying something that is true. So theoretically, almost every news person should be banned. Although to be fair, most of them are mainstream media. And so they don't state that fact. They hide that fact. But yeah. And by the way, where do I get it from? From a British publication, the Guardian said that 94% of Congress has gotten campaign contributions from the Israeli lobby. That is a stunning number. They're also the number one lifetime donor to Donald Trump. Joe Biden, Hakeem Jeffries, Chuck Schumer, Mike Johnson. So to say that the Israeli lobby does not have influence or massive influence or really control when they win. Every single vote in Congress would be to be counterfactual. So it doesn't get any more absurd than being banned for saying things that are. That are empirically true.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Here's the other thing. Why do they care if you say something about Israel controlling you of Congress you didn't say. I mean, maybe you said parliament, although might be true too. Now, in this particular case, to ban. You're a United States citizen. I don't even check about visa when I go to the uk okay? It's visa upon arrival. It's so called special. Last time I went, you didn't even need to talk to anybody. Just scan your passport and you can walk in to the city of London. And so you get there to the airport, you find out you're being banned, you have no communication. But let's take it a step further. I believe our vice president criticized European governments for heavily censoring their own citizens. I agree with that criticism. Has anybody from the State Department reached out on your behalf to make sure you're gonna facilitate your entry into the uk?

[Cenk Uygur]

No, not yet. So I'll tell you, the one guy who has done something is you're not gonna be shipping shocked. Ro Khanna. He's already on it and he's reached out to the British ambassador and asking for an answer. And I am curious about it because there, there is no logical answer here for why I've been banned. I mean, they try to pretend that it's anti Semitism, but I've never said anything anti Semitic. So they're like, well, I guess your criticism of Israel is by definition anti Semitic. But if that's true, then you're literally going to have to ban billions of people from Great Britain because. Because that's who is critical of Israel. Over 61% of this country is critical of Israel. So what level of absurdity are we going to? And to your point, Sagar, you know, there's this phrase thrown around special ally. You know, they say it about Israel and sometimes they say it about the uk and so. I know, and you're right. I never said anything about the British Parliament. I never said anything about the British government. So they're not banning me for criticizing the British government, although I do now. So congrats.

[Sagar Enjeti]

He should.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, and I. I made factual statements about the American government. That's why I got banned. But wait a minute. So apparently Israel is such a special, special ally of Britain that they'll even ban Americans like we are an inferior ally to Israel, apparently, because American citizens will get banned if they so much as criticize, is the most special ally of all for apparently almost all Western governments. How is this not absurd, guys? I mean, look, one more thing about that. Israel's population is almost identical to the population of Papua New guinea, right? So if anyone was being banned for criticizing Papua New guinea, it would be obviously irrational, like the most ludicrous thing you've ever heard. And they say, nope, nope. When you do it about Israel, it makes sense. It doesn't. It's not normal, it's super weird, and it gives the game away. It's a mask off moment.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, well, and I followed your coverage long enough to know that, you know, there are a lot of countries that you've been critical of. I'm sure you've been critical of Russia, Saudi Arabia. No one says, oh, you're critical of Saudi Arabia, so you're anti Muslim or you're Islamophobic. Nobody says, oh, you're critical of Russia, so you're anti Christian. No one says, oh, you can't come to my country because you said something mean about a different nation. And with Israel, look, we listened to the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio say, hey, you know, part of the reason we're in this war here is because we knew Israel was going to attack Iran and we couldn't or wouldn't stop them. So that's why we're in the war. We heard Donald Trump say something very similar, that we were in this war with Iran because of Israel and others in the Gulf who wanted us to be in this war. So you are just echoing the words that are literally coming from the leaders of this country.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, that's exactly right. It would be hilarious, though, if they banned Donald Trump. They're saying that, you know, that Israel, you said Israel controls you, so we are now banning you from coming to the uk so. And guys, there's, there's a, another component of the, of this that's important. So you can look at it in a lot of different ways. You can say, look, and you're absolutely right. I've said very harsh things about the government of Russia, the government of Saudi Arabia, the government of uae, the government of Turkey. So you don't get banned for any of these. And then they say, no, no, no, Israel doesn't have special privileges. Again, counterfactual, empirically incorrect. And in fact, when you add that extra lie on top, it makes us think, why are you lying straight to our face when we can, we have Eyes and ears years. But beyond that, not only do I not say anything as Jewish people on the show, I actively say, I've said hundreds of times, this is not about Jewish Americans or Jews anywhere in the world. Governments do terrible things. If the Turkish government does something bad, it doesn't mean I did it as a Turkish American, it doesn't mean a Turkish citizen did it. And by the way, there are huge lobbies in this country that also control our government. Big Pharma controls drug policies, Big Oil controls oil and energy policies. And it would be absurd to say that they don't. We can't negotiate drug prices. That's how thoroughly the drug companies control our government. And that's because we legalize bribery in America. So these are super important facts about the American government. And if you say you're not allowed to say the most important facts about the American government, otherwise we they won't allow you into Britain. Well, what you're saying is that Great Britain is no longer a free country, period. Right?

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Cenk Uygur]

And then if you say no, no, no Cenk, you are allowed to say it about big pharma and defense contractors and oil companies, you're just not allowed to say it about the Israeli lobby. Again, you're giving the game away. You're saying they're the most important lobby and they have special and extra privileges that no one else on planet earth gets. And then one final thing about that, guys, if I tell everybody to not hate anybody who's Jewish, in fact I say I love Jewish people, I have Jewish family, I have Jewish endless Jewish friends. Cuz I grew up in areas that were heavily Jewish. And so I grew up with those guys my whole life. My co founders are Jewish, on the Young Turks, et cetera. And if they say, well that's the equivalent of a guy saying that Hitler is cool and you should hate Jews, well then you've made, you've taken the power away from actual bigotry and anti Semitism and fighting it. It's almost like a Jesse Smollett situation where they're screaming anti Semitism when none exists and thereby cheapening the word and the concept and ironically doing damage to that cause.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's such an important point.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, and I know Hasan had pointed out that one of the previous speeches he gave at Oxford was on the topic exactly of how important it is is to separate out Israel from the Jewish people. I mean, this is something that you both underscore and focus on all the time. I'm curious, you know, I had seen previously that there Was. I didn't follow it closely, but that there was some MP in particular who, like, was, you know, really gunning for Hasan specifically over some of his more controversial, I guess, statements. I mean, is that where this came from, do you think, in that? And then once they realize like, oh, we're gonna ban Hasan, they're like, oh, well, we've got his uncle. We're gonna ban him too. What do you think is the train of how this all came together to result in banning both of you? And do you think that that would extend to anyone who holds similar opinions, who's expressed similar things, either as influencers or online, et cetera?

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah. So look, who it applies to is going to be fascinating. Professor Larry Lessig from Harvard's a good friend of mine. He helped me out a little bit yesterday and today. And what we found out is that these bans are almost never reversed. Am I really going to be banned from the United Kingdom for the rest of my life? Am I really an enemy of the Crown?

[Krystal Ball]

Crazy.

[Cenk Uygur]

I mean, this is. I keep saying this is absurd because this is as insane as it gets. So where is it coming from? From, probably from the Israeli lobby. I mean, who else would it come from? The Australian government, British citizens. Did they vote on this? My guess is I would win in a landslide if you actually asked the British citizens if my speech should be banned. My guess is that my speech is probably nearly identical to the majority of the British citizens in terms of what my opinions are. Are they going to start banning their own citizens? Citizens, if you're a UK citizen and you leave the country, are they going to let you back in if you've criticized Israel? So is it that I'm a media figure? But what if you said something in social media? Does that count? Or is it just any opinion you had that you stated to anyone will get you banned from Britain if it's opposed to Kazakhstan? No, I'm sorry, Israel, of course. I mean, again, fill in any other country and it's preposterous. And then they say no, if you tell us it's preposterous when it comes to Israel, we'll call you doubly anti Semitic. No, it's just insane. And look, it's not shared by any of our citizens. American citizens don't agree. British, Western, worldwide, no one agrees. The only people who want special privileges for Israel are government officials and honestly, mainstream media. Media?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, I. I'll tell you, I. I'm very rarely shocked. When I. When I heard that you guys were banned, I was stunned. This is the Anglosphere, our cousins. I mean I. You don't even think when you get on a flight to the uk, I would think more getting on a flight to Saudi Arabia than I would on a flight to uk. And yet it's the flight to the UK which got you banned. UN Absolutely unbelievable.

[Krystal Ball]

How about that? Those western values that were supposed to be, you know, that's the reason we're allied with Israel, right? We've got to defend western values. And meanwhile, you know, they often cause us to trample on what those supposed western values are. And of course, with their genocide, ethnic cleansing, constant bombing of other countries don't represent certainly what I would want western values to be. Now maybe they do reveal the true western values. That's a different conversation for another day. But Cenk, so great to have you, your insights and your first person perspective on this. We really appreciate you taking the time to join us. I know it's early in California, so extra thank you for that.

[Sagar Enjeti]

We really appreciate it. Cenk, it's such an important thing. I think every American should hear about this. I really do. Thank you.

[Cenk Uygur]

I really appreciate you guys. And Crystal, that last point's so powerful. They say, oh, we're helping you with western civilization, but first you got to get rid of your freedom of speech, your freedoms altogether and only represent us. No, that's not western civilization at all. That's the exact opposite. So, and, and, and can you imagine being banned from the United Kingdom because you oppose the genocide? I mean, wow, how the world has changed.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

Sick.

[Sagar Enjeti]

We'll see you later, man. Thank you.

[Cenk Uygur]

Thank you guys.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Thank you guys so much for watching. We appreciate it. Bro show tomorrow, don't miss that. Crystal will be back on Thursday.

[Cenk Uygur]

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[Krystal Ball]

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