6/17/25: Glenn Greenwald On Media's Iraq 2.0 Coverage, MN Assassin Last Text Revealed, California AG On Trump Troop's In LA

Summary

Podcast Summary: Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar Episode: June 17, 2025 Guests: Glenn Greenwald, Rob Bonta (California Attorney General) Hosts: Krystal Ball and Sagar Enjeti Duration: Approximately 50 minutes

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1. Introduction and Guest Overview

The episode kicks off with an introduction of Glenn Greenwald, a prominent journalist known for his critical stance on mainstream media and his role in exposing government misconduct. Krystal Ball and Sagar Enjeti set the stage for a deep dive into media manipulation, political violence, and legal battles surrounding federal intervention in state affairs.

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2. Media's Iraq 2.0 Coverage and Disinformation

Timestamp: [02:02] – [06:16]

Glenn Greenwald draws parallels between the media landscape during the Iraq War and the current situation with Iran. He emphasizes how disinformation serves as a modern weapon of war, enabling governments and intelligence agencies to manipulate public perception.

Key Points:

• Disinformation as a War Tool: Greenwald asserts, “Disinformation is always a weapon of war... our corporate media is not just incapable of guarding against it, but eager to participate in its dissemination” ([03:10]).
• Historical Deception: He references past instances where media played a role in justifying conflicts, highlighting the need for historical awareness to navigate current media biases.

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3. Media Bias and Repetition of War-Time Propaganda

Timestamp: [06:16] – [14:04]

The discussion shifts to specific examples of media figures like Tucker Carlson and Glenn Beck, who Greenwald argues are repeating propaganda similar to that seen during the Iraq War. The hosts critique the media’s failure to question governmental narratives.

Key Points:

• Repetition of Lies: Greenwald mentions, “They just continue to thrive to this very day. They're still the ones making the decisions” ([06:16]).
• Erosion of Credibility: The hosts discuss how repeated falsehoods erode public trust, making it easier to justify military actions without substantial evidence.

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4. Parallels Between Iraq War Justifications and Current Iran Policies

Timestamp: [14:04] – [16:59]

Greenwald and the hosts delve into the similarities between the justifications used for the Iraq War and the current stance on Iran’s nuclear ambitions. They critique the use of unverified intelligence to push for military intervention.

Key Points:

• False Justifications: Greenwald compares the claims about Iran’s nuclear program to the unfounded assertions about Iraq possessing weapons of mass destruction ([14:04]).
• Media Complicity: “The only question is, do you want to go to war to stop them or do you want to let them have it?” Greenwald questions the binary choice presented by the media and government ([16:59]).

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5. Political Motivations and the Influence of Aging Leaders

Timestamp: [16:59] – [19:27]

The conversation turns to the personal ideologies of leaders like Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu, focusing on how their beliefs influence foreign policy decisions. The hosts express concern over the potential for reckless decisions driven by personal convictions.

Key Points:

• Divine Justification: Greenwald discusses Trump’s adoption of evangelical beliefs, highlighting messages that suggest divine intervention and destiny ([07:22] – [07:52]).
• End-of-Life Decision Making: The hosts warn that leaders in their mid to late 70s may prioritize legacy over practical governance, increasing the risk of dangerous decisions ([08:00] – [19:27]).

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6. Minnesota Lawmaker Assassination Attempt

Timestamp: [19:27] – [30:42]

A significant portion of the episode covers the assassination attempt on a Minnesota state Democratic lawmaker by Belter. The hosts provide a detailed account of the events, investigations, and potential motivations behind the attack.

Key Points:

• Incident Details: Belter’s attack involved targeting multiple Democratic lawmakers, indicating a possible anti-abortion or extreme right-wing motive ([21:32] – [28:42]).
• Law Enforcement Response: Critique of the police handling of the situation, where Belter was in close proximity yet managed to escape and carry out the assassination ([23:38] – [30:42]).
• Psychological Profile: Discussion on Belter’s behavior, including his conflicts, extremist views, and possible mental health issues.

Notable Quotes:

• Greenwald: “This is like genocide of babies, some people are gonna take it that way” ([30:13]).
• Crystal Ball: “It's horrific and it's terrifying” ([29:17]).

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7. California Attorney General Rob Bonta on Federalization of the National Guard

Timestamp: [31:03] – [48:24]

The hosts interview Rob Bonta, the Attorney General of California, regarding the ongoing lawsuit against the Trump administration’s decision to federalize the National Guard in Los Angeles. The discussion centers on the legal grounds of the lawsuit and its implications for state-federal relations.

Key Points:

• Legal Basis: Bonta explains that the deployment violated federal law and the U.S. Constitution by lacking the necessary conditions such as rebellion or invasion ([33:39] – [37:18]).
• Posse Comitatus Act: The hosts and Bonta discuss the act’s prohibition of military involvement in civilian law enforcement, citing recent incidents where Marines allegedly engaged in arrests ([37:18] – [41:38]).
• Future Legal Steps: Bonta expresses confidence in the legal battle, anticipating possible escalation to the Supreme Court if the Trump administration invokes the Insurrection Act ([47:05] – [48:24]).

Notable Quotes:

• Bonta: “The requirements to invoke it are not present...no basis for invoking the Insurrection Act” ([47:05]).
• Krystal Ball: “It’s so dangerous... he wants to targeted and attack transparently” ([42:37]).

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8. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Timestamp: [48:24] – [50:58]

The episode wraps up with final remarks on the potential for increased political violence and the importance of holding leaders accountable. The hosts emphasize the need for vigilance and support for independent media outlets like Breaking Points to continue exposing truths.

Key Points:

• Rising Political Violence: Concerns about the normalization of political violence in America’s political climate.
• Support for Independent Media: Encouragement for listeners to support independent journalism to counteract mainstream media biases.

Closing Remarks: Krystal Ball and Sagar Enjeti thank their guest and listeners, highlighting upcoming topics and urging continued engagement with critical political issues.

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Notable Quotes Throughout the Episode

• Glenn Greenwald: “Disinformation is always a weapon of war...” ([03:10]).
• Krystal Ball: “This is like genocide of babies…” ([30:13]).
• Rob Bonta: “There is no basis for invoking the Insurrection Act…” ([47:05]).

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Key Takeaways

• Media Manipulation: The episode underscores the persistent issue of media complicity in governmental propaganda, drawing historical parallels to past conflicts.
• Political Accountability: Emphasis on the necessity to hold political leaders accountable for actions that undermine democratic principles and legal frameworks.
• Legal Battles: The California lawsuit against federal overreach serves as a critical example of state resistance against perceived unconstitutional actions by the federal government.
• Preventing Violence: The tragic assassination attempt on Minnesota lawmakers highlights the urgent need to address rising political extremism and violence.

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For More Information:

• Visit BreakingPoints.com to access full episodes, become a member, and support independent journalism.

Transcript

[Tom Yamas]

This is an iHeart podcast. Taking over the helm of NBC nightly news, a 75 year old broadcast. It's a great responsibility. Good evening, I'm Tom Yamas.

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[Crystal Ball]

Hey guys, Sagar and Crystal here.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.

[Crystal Ball]

This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

[Crystal Ball]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see [e-mail] very excited now to be joined by friend of the show, Glenn Greenwald to talk about the media environment and how it may resemble the war in Iraq. Glenn, of course was one of the people fighting against the administration and exposing the truth there at the time and so can see a lot of these Parallels. Glenn, one of the things we wanted to start with here is your observation about how the different US Media organizations are used as tools of Israel and the US Intelligence community. Let's go and put this up there on the screen. As you know, we have two side by side stories yesterday. One is Iran is eager to negotiate with the US And Israel to end the war. But CNN says Iran refuses to negotiate while under attack until its retaliation against Israel is completed. As you say, disinformation is always a weapon of war and it lets people believe what they want. So given, you know, your experience now covering so much of these psyops and others by the intelligence community, by various foreign governments, what can we tell the audience about warnings for how to navigate this very difficult information environment?

[Tom Yamas]

Yeah, I mean, I think usually now people are trained to understand that if they're getting some claim that is laundered through the media from anonymous sources, that it's often necessary to apply skepticism to it. People have learned that lesson well. But when it comes time to war, especially when the governments are selling wars to people, when they're attempting to scare them into supporting a war, skepticism is almost not even enough. You have to kind of begin by disbelieving what it is that you're being told, knowing how often, almost automatically, disinformation is deliberately deployed. And so it is a weapon of war. It's something that every government at war does. And we've seen over and over that our corporate media is not just incapable of guarding against it, but eager to participate in its dissemination. And that's the reason we've been deceived so many times into wars. And so you have to look back at history to get a guide for how to navigate what you're seeing currently.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, the number of conflicting reports that come out, I mean, even if you like, outside of this administration, the number of reports we got from Barack ravid about how Biden was super, super mad at Netanyahu and then Trump comes into office and he's also super, super mad at Netanyahu. And I think to your point, especially when you have the Trump administration just admitting that they lied to the Iranians, the American people, to the world, about their intent to go forward with negotiations as a ruse to element of surprise for these Israeli attacks, whatever credence you were giving them previously has to be completely thrown out the window at this point.

[Tom Yamas]

Yeah, even there. I mean, that is what the United States is claiming. That is what Donald Trump is claiming, because I do believe that's what happened I do believe, at least recently, that the US Was negotiating with Iran and leading them to believe that they still wanted a diplomatic solution as a way of getting Iran to believe no attack was coming, to let the Israelis and the US Attack them with surprise. But. So it's not. But let's assume that isn't the case. Let's assume that what happened was what they made to look like what happened, which is that the US Was saying, no, don't do this, and then Israel went and did it anyway, meaning defied Trump's orders, humiliated the United States, humiliated Donald Trump by ruining his diplomatic attempts after he told Israel not to do it. Even then, what would Trump do? He wouldn't stand up and admit that Netanyahu humiliated him. They would probably have an interest, U.S. officials would, in pretending that Trump was in on that plan all along, that he wasn't surprised by it or defy that this was actually Trump's war. And he's been speaking that way all the time. And I think I'm so glad you mentioned Barack Raviv, because he's such a perfect example of the kind of skepticism that we ought to have. This is a person who's an Israeli citizen. He was in the IDF reserves until 2023. He worked in the most notorious intelligence unit. And he has become basically the go to reporter for understanding US Israeli relations because he just takes whatever he's told to write down from both governments and, and goes and prints it completely uncritically. And he won the White House Journalism award for doing so, which reflects the kind of stenographic function that they continue to see themselves in, especially when it comes to foreign policy and wars. They don't question the government. They're there to publish what they're told and to stand on the side of the government. And that's what makes this combination of politics and media propaganda so potent and so dangerous.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, it's actually kind of a useful function if you know that's what he's doing. It's actually useful. You say, okay, well, this is what they want us to believe. This is what they're trying to sell to the public. But it has to be read through that particular lens before we transition to talking about some of the Iraq war parallels and like lessons learned from that era, because some of the similarities are really, really eerie. You talked about President Trump and people trying to scare us into war. This is scaring me, but not in the direction of war. He posted this long text that he got from Mike Huckabee, who is this evangelical End Times believer who also happens to be our U.S. ambassador to Isra. And so Trump posted on Truth Social this what they describe as a powerful message that he received from Mike Huckabee that reads, Mr. President, God spared you in Butler, Pennsylvania, to be the most consequential president in a century, maybe ever. The decisions on your shoulders, I would not want to be made by anyone else. You have many voices speaking to you, sir, but there is only one voice that matters. His voice. I am your appointed servant in this land, and I am available for you. But I do not try to get in your presence often because I trust your instincts.

[Tom Yamas]

I.

[Sagar Enjeti]

No president in my lifetime has been in a position like yours, not since Truman in 1945. I don't reach out to persuade you, only to encourage you. I believe you will hear from heaven. And that voice is far more important than mine or anyone else's. You sent me to Israel to be your eyes, ears, and voice and make sure our flag flies above our embassy. My job is to be the last one to leave. I will not abandon this post. Our flag will not come down. You did not seek this moment. This moment sought you. It is my honor to serve you. Your thoughts about that?

[Tom Yamas]

Well, it's not just alarming that Huckabee wrote that, but that Trump took it and himself published it, because Trump clearly believes it to be true. You know, I heard from a lot of people that everybody, I think, assumed that Trump's marching around as some sort of evangelical Christian for most of his political career was a ruse. But I heard from a lot of people who know Trump very well, that especially after that assassination attempt in Butler, Pennsylvania, which admittedly was something that I think would transform anybody, coming that close to death but avoiding it, that he really did become convinced that there was some divine intervent that saved him for a reason. And it's so ironic that we're hearing that the reason Iran is so dangerous is because they're a theocratic regime that doesn't care about anything other than the belief that God is telling them what to do, when that not only obviously affects and shapes Israel's foreign policy, but I think it's shaping Donald Trump's as well. And I think what is really alarming is if you look at what Trump has been saying the last 24 to 48 hours, he's clearly trying to at least send the signal, whether it's Tehran or Israel or to whomever, that he is about to do something of historic proportions, which is what Bibi Netanyahu thinks about Himself as well. They're both people in their mid to late 70s, which is when they start thinking about how they're thought of once they're dead, not what the rest of us have to deal with as a result of their decisions. And I think the kind of mindset that they're in now, as evidenced by Trump posting that Huckabee email, is one that is genuinely alarming and dangerous. And I say that as somebody who's not typically alarmist.

[Crystal Ball]

No, you're absolutely right, Glenn. And what really strikes me with the Bush parallel and Iraq, this is a good transition, is one of the things that really struck me in reading a lot about Bush is he really believed that he had been saved from addiction and, like, put on this earth and sent to the White House to save the United States during 9 11. And that really was a huge impact on why he decided to go into the war in Iraq. And so, you know, bringing this, like, full circle is not only that, the media aspect here, but what drives me crazy, and I'm sure it must you as well, is we have the same actors in the same, literally the same people who lied us into the war in Iraq now really repeating so of the same things. We had Ari Fleischer talking about Tucker Carlson, and this is the guy who lied from the White House podium about weapons of mass destruction. Glenn Beck, who was on television talking about how America would be greeted as liberators. He apologized in 2014. But you know, Glenn, he's back now to actually saying, actually, this time around, they're gonna be greeted as liberators. Let's take a listen to that, and we'll get your reaction.

[Tom Yamas]

Has Israel asked us to fight their war? Answer, no. Is this another Iraq, or is it something entirely different? Well, let me tell you what makes this moment unlike anything else we have faced before. First, this was not a call to war. This was not a land invasion. This. This. This is not a campaign to topple a regime and then sit around for 20 years trying to rebuild a culture that doesn't want what we have, even though Iran, the Iranian people are good people, the Persians are great people, and they do want a life like ours. But this was targeted. This was surgical. This was preemptive. Not against an idea, not against a guess, against the very real, very stated intentions of a regime run by men who do not think like we think. Okay? They do not want what we want. We choose life. They literally choose death. These are Twelvers. They are followers of a branch of Shiite Islam that believes not just in the return of the messianic figure called the Mahadi, but also that his return can and must be, in their words, hastened or accelerated. And the only way to do that is to, quote, using their words, wash the world in blood. Okay, I think I'm out at that. You know, that's my first stop on the train and I'm like, I'm going to get off here. Please.

[Crystal Ball]

They hate our way of life. They're again, we. They choose. I mean, this is 03. This is the same thing. You could probably copy and paste that. And then, oh, except this time they're different because they're Persian, which, by the way, is very racist against Arabs. But, you know, it's like, what are we doing here, Glenn?

[Tom Yamas]

Also, isn't it kind of ironic that we're supposed to be scared of Iran because they have a messianic religious belief and like a third of the Congress wants to arm and support Israel no matter what because of their messianic view that doing so is necessarily for the return of Jesus, who's then going to send all Jews and other unbelievers to hell. But that's a little detail that Israel doesn't mind because they don't actually believe that and they're happy for the support. But you know, Sagar, the thing is, like, the comparison with Iran with the rock router, despite it not being planned originally as a regime change or a ground invasion, is so obvious, right? Like, we're being told, the reason we have to start this war, which is a war that the United States and Israel started, not Iran, is because they were developing extremely dangerous nuclear weapons. And they're so psychotic and dictatorial and unhinged that we can't allow them to have a nuclear weapon, which is exactly how the war in Iraq was justified. And I honestly did. Of course, I knew that from the start. But when you go back and look at the speeches and you see that the exact same people are uttering the exact same phrases, it's not even an attempt to modify the script a little bit. You know, just as one example, George Bush's big speech in October, in October, in September 7, rather in 2002 in Cincinnati, was, yes, we can't give you proof that Iraq has nuclear weapons, but you don't want the smoking gun to be in the form of mushroom cloud over your city. Ted Cruz went on Fox News and said exactly the same thing when asked about proof that Iran has nuclear weapons. And this is what's scary is a week ago, every MAGA person basically Every person, if you showed them, look, Israel has been saying for 30 years that Iran is a week away or a month away or a year away from nuclear weapons, and it never turned out to be true, would say, yeah, we're not gonna fall for that again. The bombs start dropping, Trump's involved, everybody wants to cheer for it, and so you just give them on a silver platter. This obviously bullshit excuse, which is that Iran has an active nuclear weapons program, which Tulsi Gabbard herself said three months ago is the consensus of the intelligence community is untrue. And now it's just the assumption within every media discussion that Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons. And the only question is, do you want to go to war to stop them or do you want to let them have it? It's mind blowing how propaganda works, even if it's identical to the one that 25 years ago we all watch proved to be completely disgraced.

[Sagar Enjeti]

And Deb, that is absolutely right. And you know, another person who was at the scene of the crime last time as well, Bibi Netanyahu. Here's a little flashback to the case he was making at the time.

[Tom Yamas]

And this is a tyrant who is feverishly trying to acquire nuclear weapons. And today the United States must destroy the same regime because a nuclear armed Saddam will place the security of our entire world at risk is simply not reflecting the reality. To assume that Saddam isn't feverishly working to develop nuclear weapons as we speak. If you take out Saddam, Saddam's regime, I guarantee you that it will have enormous positive reverberations on the region. Three principles of real estate. The three L's. Location, location, location. The three principles of winning the war on terror are the three W's. Winning, winning and winning. The more victories you amass, the easier the next victory becomes. The first victory in Afghanistan makes the second victory in Iraq that much easier. The second victory in Iraq will make the third victory that much easier than dismantling his regime will do.

[Sagar Enjeti]

If you take out Saddam, I guarantee you it will have enormous positive reverberations on the region because he's feverishly working to develop nuclear weapons.

[Tom Yamas]

You know, I think there's so many interesting parts to that testimony that you show that even though just those excerpts that I think are self evident, but you notice at the end too, he said the more you win, the easier the wins become. So the first one in Afghanistan will make the second one in Iraq all the easier. And then of course, we didn't win in either. And then he said that second win will make the third win easier still. What did he mean by the third win? Neocons at that point and into 2003 and 4 were very open about the fact that they didn't want to stop at Baghdad. You know, there was that phrase that was leaked by Karl Rove or somebody like that, Paul Wolfowitz, saying real men go to Tehran. The plan always was, was to go topple Saddam and then go get regime change in Iran. And I think that's the other point that we have to be so aware of. Glenn Beck said, this time it's not about regime change. Why are they bombing Tehran then? There are no nuclear facilities in Tehran. Why did Trump order 16 million people to evacuate Tehran as though they're gonna destroy Tehran where there's no nuclear facilities there either? It's because this is a regime change. Where they want to change the regime of Iran, they want to turn it into Syria, where they just have a collapse in the central government. All these factions being backed by the CIA and the Mossad trying to take over Iran, or at the very least rendering Iran impotent and letting Israel control the entire Middle east and therefore the United States as well. That is the real goal of everything that they're doing. And so maybe it'll end quickly if Trump drops, you know, the biggest bombs we have on every population center, or maybe it'll lead to troops having to be activated if Iran attacks our troops in response of oil facility. You don't know once you unleash a war like this, what the results are gonna be. And that was what we learned from Iraq. And we were told it would take two weeks to get rid of Saddam.

[Crystal Ball]

You know, Glenn, this is my final question here. I think they've won. I think the neocons have won. And I do. I mean, look, I could be totally wrong. There could be some last minute thing, but I do think the US Is gonna get offensively involved at this point, I have very, very little hope. So I do know that at least something is going to happen 40th order consequences always do, and the neocons are gonna run away from that. And since we were somehow unsuccessful in holding them to account over the last 25, what do we do differently to hold these people to account and actually tie them to their decisions? Or is that just structurally impossible here in Washington D.C. that was the other.

[Tom Yamas]

Thing that really struck me. Sagar, as we prepared our own show last night, going through these 2002 and 2003 interviews, is the people who went on television and just told outright lies in the most assertive, authoritative form possible. None of them had their careers even remotely impeded, let alone destroyed. In fact, they all continue to thrive to this very day. They're still the ones making the decisions. They're still the ones in charge. And one of the things that I thought would at least be promising this time was that there's this big section of MAGA that would turn against Trump if he actually got the country involved in a major war with Iran on behalf of Israel. And you're already seeing, like one of the reasons Trump came out yesterday and publicly scorned and humiliated Tucker Carlson was it was a message to everybody. Look, if you even think about raising your voice against me, you will be out. We're gonna exclude you from Baca. You will no longer be welcome at the White House. You'll have no influence. It was a way of keeping them all into line. And you're already seeing many of them who had been saying, don't go to war with Iran or it's gonna ruin your presidency snapping into line and saying, you know what? I trust President Trump. I'm sure he's gonna do the right thing. We need to get rid of this regime. And I don't see any hope of that happening.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Unfortunately, Charlie Kirk last night goes on and, oh, I trust President Trump. He was made for this moment. I'm sure it's gonna all work out great. Yeah. I mean, and very few people like Tucker has his own base of support and is independent. Whatever. There are very few people in the right wing ecosystem. Ecosystem who can exist outside of just like Trump support. So, yeah, they're gonna take that message in. Glenn, thank you so much. You've been doing incredible work here. I also would love for people we were originally booked here to talk about Palantir.

[Tom Yamas]

You gotta come back.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Still do that in the future.

[Tom Yamas]

I gotta come back. They still matter.

[Crystal Ball]

Hey, business is gonna boom for them. Okay. All right. All my neighbors here in Virginia, they're all about to get filthy rich, so I guess we can all be.

[Sagar Enjeti]

And they also sponsored that great military parade over the weekend too. So things are looking good for them. And Lockheed looking out for them. Yep. All right, Glenn, great to see you. Take care.

[Tom Yamas]

Great to see you guys. Bye.

[Jenny Garth]

This is Jenny Garth from I do part two. Can't afford Ozempic. Try WeGovy from Future Health. Just $199 and FDA approved for weight loss. No insurance or tricky syringes needed, just results. Visit futurehealth.com that's future without the E. And start losing weight. This week, Future Health weight loss data based on independent studies sponsored by Future Health. Future Health is not a health care services provider. Meds are prescribed at providers discretion.

[Tom Yamas]

Taking over the helm of NBC Nightly News, a 75 year old broadcast. It's a great responsibility. Good evening, I'm Tom Yamas.

[Jenny Garth]

You have to go out there to.

[Tom Yamas]

Bring people at home closer to the store. Wildfires continue to be a threat. With that massive hurricane comes the massive response. The best reporters in our business know how to listen to and when you listen, you get the truth. For NBC News NBC News, I'm Tom Yamas. That's what we do every night. NBC Nightly News with Tom Yamas evenings on NBC.

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[Tom Yamas]

After shooting Senator Hoffman and his wife, Belter traveled to the home of another Minnesota state representative in Maple Grove, Minnesota. Video surveillance showed that Belter rang the doorbell at the state representative's house at.

[Crystal Ball]

Approximately 2:24am on Friday night.

[Tom Yamas]

Again, he was dressed as a law.

[Crystal Ball]

Enforcement officer, wearing a tactical vest and.

[Tom Yamas]

Body armor, carrying a handgun and a flashlight and wearing that same hyper realistic silicon mask. Again, the images as you can see on the screen are haunting. Fortunately, the state representative was not home. She and her family were gone on vacation. And so Belter left. Belter then traveled to the home of a Minnesota state senator who lived in New Hope, Minnesota. He parked in the street in that same black SUV with the police license plate.

[Crystal Ball]

At about 2:36am on Friday night, after.

[Tom Yamas]

Learning of the shooting of Senator Hoffman, New Hope police dispatched an officer to conduct a wellness check on the state senator who lived in New Hope. When the New Hope officer arrived at the scene, she saw Belter's black SUV parked down the block with the lights on. The New Hope police officer believed that Belter was a police officer who had been dispatched to the scene to check on the status of the state senator. The New Hope police officer pulled up next to Belter in his car, rolled.

[Crystal Ball]

Down her window and attempted to speak with him.

[Tom Yamas]

Belter did not respond. According to the officer, he just sat.

[Crystal Ball]

There and stared straight ahead.

[Tom Yamas]

So the New Hope police officer who had been dispatched to the scene proceeded to the state senator's home and she waited for other law enforcement to arrive when they did. By the time they did, Belter had left the scene.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Belcher had tried to kill four different Minnesota state Democratic lawmakers. And at one of them. So the police officer shows up to do a wellness check because this guy's on the loose and they're getting the idea of like, oh, he's targeting state elected officials. So let's go to all the ones that are, you know, in the vicinity. So she shows up, she sees him parked down the street, cuz he's in this fake cop car, pulls up next to him thinking this is some law enforcement backup for, you know, to assist her. He just sits there, stares straight ahead, doesn't say anything. She leaves him alone and goes and performs this check, giving him the opportunity to escape and then go to the next lawmaker's home. And I believe it's that home where he's able to actually shoot and kill this lawmaker and her husband. At that time, the law enforcement, they go on to say, shows up there at that house where he's able to actually assassinate this lawmaker. They exchange fire with him and he's able to flee on foot, leading to this again, multi day manhunt. So I think there are, to put it generously, a lot of questions for the way that law enforcement handled all of this and how this was allowed to unfold when they had him right there. And he's able not only to escape, but he's able to go on and commit this murder. And then they have him there and he's able to get away on foot the way they were able to capture him. We can put E2 up on the screen. There was a local woman who actually saw him. He was captured very close to his home and she saw him crawling in the grass around her property and alerted law enforcement that she thought this was him. At first she thought it was actually the cops looking for him. And then she realized like, no, I think that is actually the guy and alerted law enforcement. They were able to use drones to track him down. They found him crawling through some under bush bushes and were able to apprehend him. There are some other really troubling and eyebrow raising details in a Wall Street Journal report as well. I can put this next piece up on the screen. So Belter's wife was actually stopped near a convenience store about 70 miles north of the shootings. She had two guns, $10,000 in cash and passports for herself and her children in her car, according to federal court records. Apparently she had received a text and other family members as well from Belter at 6:18am saying quote, dad went to war last night, according to federal court documents. He also texted his wife to apologize saying, there's gonna be some people coming to the house armed and trigger happy and I don't want you guys around. According to messages quoted in court filings. And presumably that's what caused her to flee with with firearms herself and $10,000 in cash and her kids and the passports. Belcher Hadit was initially described as a manifesto with him, later details that have been revealed. It wasn't so much of like an explanation of what his motives were of. He had a notebook with a list of targets, some 60 lawmakers throughout, I think all Democratic lawmakers throughout not only Minnesota, but some of the surrounding states. Tim Walz, Ilhan Omar were the senators. They were all on the list along with a number of Planned Parenthood, both locations, and pro choice activists. So we don't know, but it seems like one of the motivations may have been or the motivation may have been like anti abortion zealotry. The last piece here, there had been a lot of discussion online about what his motivation was. The right decided based on like literally nothing that he must be a left winger. So, so just so everybody's clear on how the people who know him describe his political affiliation. This is a guy who's described as his best friend and actually roommate. Apparently he lived with his wife in this house, but then also had a roommate situation another place. And that was where this guy was, who still considers him to be his best friend, talking about how he would be offended if people thought he was a Democrat and then he was actually like an Alex Jones infowars watcher. Let's go ahead and take a listen to that.

[Tom Yamas]

Well, everyone's calling him a Democrat. He's not a Democrat. He would be offended if people called him a Democrat.

[Sagar Enjeti]

He didn't like Jim Walsh, didn't like Jim.

[Tom Yamas]

Walls. What would you say about him? Well, I mean, nothing. I mean, it's just normal. Well, I don't to want like that.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Tim Wall did this.

[Tom Yamas]

I don't like that they did that.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, you, you listen to Infowars.

[Jenny Garth]

Infowars.

[Tom Yamas]

But I kind of told said, well, it's like 50% truth. I was always a Trump supporter, voted for Trump. If you like Trump. I like Trump.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So there you go. That's what his roommate had to say. Sagar. And obviously, I mean, the story is important in and of itself and also comes amid a climate of rising political violence. We saw himself, you know, attempted assassinations against him. And there's a concern that this just becomes sort of like part of the background noise of American politics.

[Crystal Ball]

I mean, the plot of it is nuts. It's also just, I mean, his behavior obviously psychotic, regardless of his political motivation. This is like pretty clear. There's a lot of weird shit going on with this guy because he's married, he has a roommate. It's like, what's going on? He's sending these weird text messages. He's gearing up in police gear. Seems to have had all this crazy stuff going on.

[Sagar Enjeti]

And some like private security company Africa.

[Crystal Ball]

Had a private security.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Was also evangelical minister ministering in Africa as well.

[Crystal Ball]

It's just like check after check of.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Psychosis and then also apparently recent financial distress.

[Crystal Ball]

Right. So, yeah, well, all the ingredients, I guess, are there. He's been indicted by the feds in terms for political assassination. So I'm sure that a lot more motivation and all that will come out with him. But obviously it's horrific and it's terrifying. And really what it does is just, it makes people afraid, especially in the public, you know, to go out a time like this, this is a time possibly of war. This is, you know, something Tucker and Steve were talking about yesterday is like, when, when it's time of war and you dissent, you're a traitor. And I'm not trying to just link the two, but what I'm trying to say is when the tension and the heat gets turned up all the way and you really. I mean, this goes out of the conceptual and perhaps if it's a pro life thing, it's analogous in that way. It's like, if you believe it's life or death, then some people are gonna take it that way, right?

[Sagar Enjeti]

I mean, you think this is the literal, like genocide of babies, right? I mean, some people are going to life. Dad went to war. Like he sees himself as a righteous figure in this.

[Crystal Ball]

Right. And if we're involved, you know, you could see very similar types of things or, you know, very similar ideology and all that pervade. So let's just stand against it and look at the very least, you know, the Trump administration, despite early attempts to say he was a right winger or, sorry, a left winger or whatever, at the least, the FBI and the DOJ are throwing the book at him for right now.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Crystal Ball]

And that's a good sign.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, absolutely. All right, we've got the Attorney general of California standing by. Saga has to run to appointments. I'm going to conduct this interview but have a lot of questions for him about this lawsuit against the Trump administration with regard to federalizing the National Guard. Hearings happen to happen today. So let's go ahead and get to that.

[Jenny Garth]

This is Jenny Garth from I do part two. Can't afford Ozempic. Try WeGovy from Future Health. Just $199 and FDA approved for weight loss. No insurance or tricky syringes needed, just results. Visit futurehealth.com that's future without the E. And start losing weight this week. Future Health weight loss data based on independent studies sponsored by Future Health. Future Health is not a healthcare services provider. Meds are prescribed at providers discretion.

[Tom Yamas]

Taking over the helm of NBC nightly news, a 75 year old broadcast. It's a great responsibility. Good evening, I'm Tom Yamas.

[Jenny Garth]

You have to go out there to.

[Tom Yamas]

Bring people at home closer to the store. Wildfires continue to be a threat. With that massive hurricane kid comes the massive response. The best reporters in our business know how to listen. And when you listen, you get the truth. For NBC News NBC News, I'm Tom Yamas. That's what we do every night. NBC Nightly News with Tom Yamas. Evenings on NBC. You're great at protecting your own personal information. You probably even use things like two factor authentication, strong passwords and a vpn. But as much as you try to be in control of how your information.

[Jenny Garth]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

So, as I was just mentioning, there are hearings today in the State of California's ongoing lawsuit against the Trump administration over their decision to federalize National Guard troops. And also to call up up active duty Marines, some several hundred to respond to protest activity in and around la. Can go ahead and put this tear sheet up on the screen. Appeals court has temporarily blocked the initial federal district court judge's ruling to return control of National Guard to California. And joining us now to discuss, we're very fortunate to have the Attorney General of California, Rob Bonta. Welcome, sir.

[Jenny Garth]

Thanks for having me. Great to be with you.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So if you could just bring our audience a little bit up to speed on this lawsuit and what is the basis for this action?

[Jenny Garth]

Absolutely. As we know, last the weekend before this past one, we saw National Guard troops be brought into Los Angeles by President Trump. When they arrived on Sunday morning, it was to quiet streets. We believe that there was, it was inappropriate for him to deploy military to Los Angeles. The, the governor and The Sheriff's Department, L.A. police Department and mutual aid agencies in the surrounding areas had everything under control. And the president has invoked a statute which requires the presence of a rebellion or an invasion or the inability to execute the federal law to be able to deploy the National Guard. None of those things exist. And it's just defies credulity to suggest that they do. The law also requires the cooperation and consent of the governor to deploy the National Guard. So the circumstances that are required for the president to deploy the National Guard to Los Angeles weren't present. And we brought a lawsuit on the following Monday. We brought a temporary restraining order the following Tuesday. And on that, the Thursday following, we had an order from the federal district court judge that said two things. One, that the president violated the federal law and also violated the U.S. constitution, violating the state's rights of the great state of California. And he was ordered, the president was ordered to return the control of the National Guard to Governor Newsom. The federal government appealed right away to the Ninth Circuit. The Ninth Circuit issued what's called an administrative stay. It's procedural. While they review the merits, they are going to have a hearing today at noon to consider those merits. It's all on shortened time. It's being done quickly because of the urgency of the matter and the harm that California faces. So we're hoping for a positive ruling today. We believe we will prevail when we sue the Trump administration, it's because we got the receipts, we got the facts, we got the law, and we think we're going to win. And so we're hopeful for a favorable ruling today.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Do you expect this ultimately to end up at the Supreme Court? And if so, are you sort of tailoring your arguments to think through how they could appeal to various of the conservative justices in particular?

[Jenny Garth]

We always play the long game and, you know, understand that the first decision might not be the last one, that we do have a federal court system that has an intermediate level of appellate review and then on, and then ultimately the U.S. supreme Court. Most cases don't get to the the U.S. supreme Court, but this is one that may be of interest to them. Obviously, the state is watching, the nation is watching, the world is watching this issue of militarizing an American city when there's no basis for it, and doing it over the objections of a governor and the mayor of that city. So this one definitely could get to the U.S. supreme Court. We make our arguments based on what the facts in the law are. We realize that different judges may review those arguments and balance them in different ways, but make the arguments that are appropriate, that are compelling, and we've made them here to the district court judge, we're making them here to the ninth Circuit, and we think they're going to be compelling at both levels. And if this case gets to the Supreme Court, we think our arguments will be very persuasive and compelling there as well.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So I read through the district court's ruling, and you can correct my details on this if I don't get the legal intricacies precisely right. But one of the questions at hand here is whether there was a violation of the Posse Comitatus act, which prohibits using the military in most circumstances for domestic law enforcement. If we can put F3 up on the screen. So at the time of that ruling, the judge basically said, like, listen, we don't really have full information yet. We already have enough to say that this is a problem and we need to go ahead and side with the state of California without actually having all of the information with regard to whether or not there was a violation of Posse Comitatus. Since then, we've seen this video come out showing what appears to be active duty Marines making an arrest of a civilian here. My understanding is this was a man, a US Actually veteran, who took a wrong Turn in trying to get to a VA appointment. What is your understanding of the way that both the National Guard and the Marines have been used on the ground since they have been, you know, since they have been brought into the city of la?

[Tom Yamas]

Well, thank you.

[Jenny Garth]

You know, it's all evolving, and video like this is showing that evolution. And it's evolving exactly the way we feared and is prohibited by the law of the United States since the late 1800s. As you mentioned, the Posse Comitatis act, which prohibits and prevents the US Military from engaging in civilian law enforcement on American soil. And that means what is that? The military, the Marines here, cannot participate in searches and seizures and detentions and arrests. And if that is what it seems to be, the detention and or arrest of a civilian by the Marines, that seems to be squarely in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act. So the Posse Comitatus act is in full effect, and the National Guard and. And the Marines are military entities that are not allowed to participate in civilian law enforcement.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Outside of this, the incident I just showed, are you aware of other incidents where either the National Guard or the Marines have, you know, have been involved in domestic law enforcement activities or making arrests, those sorts of things?

[Jenny Garth]

There are some that we've seen. I've seen other video with some examples. Secretary Hegseth posted on social media what appeared to be Marines, maybe National Guard, out in the field, so to speak, with potentially an ICE agent. It was a little unclear what he was trying to suggest, but we believe that the mission of both the National Guard and the Marines is to protect federal property, personnel and functions. That includes while protecting a federal building or while out in the field with ICE agents engaged in immigration enforcement, them being a necessary part of those operations, and taking part in detentions and arrests, searches and seizures. And so you're right that the federal judge, Judge Breyer, punted for the time being on the Posse Comitatus act because the facts were not as clear or developed as he may have wanted to see. And he wanted to see what the Marines were going to be doing, what the National Guard were going to be doing. And we're seeing more of that now. So that record is getting more clear. And it's getting clear in a way that is, I think, better for our argument, bad for America, because the military is engaged in. In civilian law enforcement, which is prohibited.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Another thing that is a significant point that you raised, and I think that all Americans need to be aware of, is that the order that President Trump used to federalize the National Guard was not Limited either in time or in place. And in fact, since the federalizing of the National Guard in California and sending them into la, he has escalated rhetoric about blue cities in particular. I want to get your reaction, guys, this is F2 to some of his recent comments in that regard.

[Tom Yamas]

I want them to focus on the.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Cities because the cities are where you.

[Tom Yamas]

Really have what's called sanctuary cities and that's where the people are. I look at New York, I look at Chicago, I mean you got a really bad governor in Chicago and a bad mayor, but the governor is probably the worst in the country. Pritzker. But I look at how that city.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Has been overrun by criminals and you know, New York and la. Look at la.

[Tom Yamas]

La.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Those people weren't from, they weren't from California. Most of those people, many of those people. And yeah, that's the focus.

[Tom Yamas]

Biden allowed 21 million people to come into our country.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Of that vast numbers of those people were murderers, killers, people from gangs, people from jails. They emptied their jails out into the U.S. most of those people are in the cities, all blue cities, all Democrat run cities and they think they're going.

[Tom Yamas]

To use them to vote. It's not going to happen.

[Sagar Enjeti]

What is your reaction to his assertions there?

[Jenny Garth]

Oh my God. I mean there's so much in there, you know, it's so shameless, so embarrassing, so divorced from the facts and all just outrageously politicized. And you know, he just, he just makes it up as he talks. And you know, the crime rates in California are much lower than many of the red states and you know, murder rates way higher. Many of the red states, red cities. And you know, he's trying to portray a fiction and pawn it off on the American people as a truth when it's, when it's clearly not. And you know, to so blatantly attack blue city leaders and blue state leaders, you know, he's not a president for all America. He, he wants to be president for half or less and wants to attack transparently and vindictively everyone else in the blue cities. He can't stand the fact that he got absolutely thrashed in the election in California and that's too much apparently for his fragile ego. So he needs to try to target California. It's just so inappropriate. That's not how leaders lead. It's sophomoric and juvenile. It's like a kid in the White House, unfortunately. But you know, so much lack of truth there. It's just hard to take the man seriously, unfortunately. But it would be laughable if it wasn't so dangerous. And for him to act on, you know, this political vengeance tour, this lack of facts to go after certain cities and states. States, you're right. The executive order is, it was for 60 days. It wasn't targeted and surgical to an incident or incidents in la. And it's nationwide. It's not just for la. I mean, what is the basis for an executive order nationwide based on a set of incidents that we see after the Lakers win a championship? So he's trying to invoke authority that gives him more power. He wants the power. And when there's invasions or emergencies or rebellions or insurrections, he gets more power. So he says those things exist when they don't exist. Clearly don't exist.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, I mean, I think it's pretty clear he's testing the limits of what he can do here, what he can get away with, both in terms of like, you know, public support and resistance and in terms of the judicial system. I'm curious if you feel like you've gotten enough support from other Democrats around the country. Because to be honest with you, I've been a little bit disappointed in the lack of vocal support and vocal resistance from elected Democrats around the country, especially given the fact, I mean, he's directly threatening all blue states, all blue cities with rolling out the same playbook wherever and whenever he wants to.

[Jenny Garth]

We've gotten some really good support on this case and Democrats are speaking up and out across the nation. I know that there was some concern and views shared like yours, especially at as Trump took office on January 20th. January 20th. But I think there's a good rhythm and a broad organized group of Democrats that are fighting for the rule of law, for democracy. We had Democratic governors through the Governor's association, every single governor signed on against this deployment of the National Guard. We had Democratic attorneys general write an amicus brief. We had quite amazingly retired secretaries of the army and the Navy, four star retired admirals and generals who wrote an amicus brief in our favor in support of our position, saying that if the military is ever going to be deployed on American soil, it needs to be rare and serious and legally clear. And they thought the those elements were not present here. So really good support for our case. And I think more broadly speaking, the voice of Democrats is getting louder and louder across the nation.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Last question I have for you. Trump stopped short here of invoking the Insurrection Act. And so the legal grounds, of course, that he invoked is what's in dispute in this particular case. If he were to Invoke the Insurrection Act Act. Do you feel like you would have a case that you could make or would it make all of these issues effectively null and void and he could basically do what he wants.

[Jenny Garth]

If he invokes the Insurrection act, we'll see him in court and confident we can block him. The there's no basis for the Insurrection Act. He only reason he's interested in it is because it gives him more power. But the. The requirements to invoke it are not present. Again, there needs to be an inability to, with the regular forces the statute says execute the laws of the federal government. That's just not present. The federal government can execute all the laws it wants or there needs to be a deprivation of rights of individuals in the state where the military is being deployed. And that happened back in the 60s when black Americans were being deprived of their civil rights. That is not present here. So there's no basis for invoking the Insurrection Act. It doesn't mean he won't try because that's what he does. He gaslights the nation and says a certain set of conditions exist on the ground when they don't, because if those conditions actually existed, which they don't, he would be able to have more power, which is what he really wants. So will he try? He very well may. Are we ready? Absolutely. Will we take him to court and block him? We're confident we can and that we will.

[Sagar Enjeti]

All right, well, we're going to be paying close attention to what unfolds in these hearings today. And California Attorney General Rob Bonta, thank you so much for taking some time with us today today.

[Jenny Garth]

Thanks for having me. Grateful to be with you.

[Sagar Enjeti]

All right, guys, thank you so much for watching. Thank you so much for your continued support. We are not going to be able to do the AMA live today, so we're going to push it off to Ryan and Emily. But I know you guys love asking them questions too. They will also be all over what is unfolding with the potential imminent joining of the US into that war with Iran. So make sure you tune in for that. Until then, have a great day.

[Jenny Garth]

Foreign this is Jenny Garth from I do part two. Can't afford Ozempic. Try WeGovy from Future Health. Just $199 and FDA approved for weight loss. No insurance or tricky syringes needed, just results. Visit futurehealth.com that's future without the E. And start losing weight this week. Future Health weight loss data based on independent studies sponsored by Future Health. Future Health is not a healthcare services provider meds are prescribed at providers discretion.

[Tom Yamas]

Hi, I'm Danielle Fishel from Pod Meets World. So for my two boys I got Samsung Galaxy Watch for kids and I'm not saying I'm kind of jealous of my kids tech. I'm saying I am definitely jealous of my child's tech. This thing lets them call, text and explore floor all from their wrist. No smartphone required. And don't worry, you're still the boss. You control who they can talk to and yes you can totally stalk their location in real time. Get Galaxy Watch 7 on T mobile now Kid ready with a new paired line. Visit t mobile.com to order yours today. Parent and child must have a Samsung account and Google account with Family link requires initial pairing with a compatible Samsung smartphone and qualifying wireless plan with LTE service activated. Please check with your carrier for more information. Trusted contact applies to compatible apps. It does not restrict communication through third party or other communication apps. Emergency services and contacts remain accessible. Location sharing is dependent on network connectivity and device being recently active. T mobile terms via 24 monthly bill credits when you add a qualifying paired watch line. See additional offer terms on T mobile.com.

[Sagar Enjeti]

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[Tom Yamas]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

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[Jenny Garth]

This is an iHeart podcast.