6/18/25: Trump Says 'We' Control Iran's Skies, Lindsey Graham Floats Troops In Iran, Tucker Exposes Ted Cruz

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar: Detailed Summary of Episode Released on June 18, 2025

In this gripping episode of "Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar," hosts Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti delve into the escalating tensions between the United States and Iran, shedding light on President Donald Trump's recent declarations, Senator Lindsey Graham's military proposals, and a contentious interview between Tucker Carlson and Senator Ted Cruz. The discussion is enriched with insightful analysis, critical perspectives, and notable statements from key political figures.

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1. Introduction to Middle East Developments

Timestamp: [02:11]

Krystal and Saagar open the episode by highlighting the significant developments in the Middle East, particularly focusing on the intensifying conflict between Iran and Israel. They express anticipation for upcoming guest appearances, including Brad Lander and potentially Dr. Turtle Boy, who has been pivotal in challenging police abuse and corruption.

Notable Quote:

• Krystal Ball: "We need your help to build the future of independent news media..."

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2. Trump's Assertion of Control Over Iran's Airspace

Timestamp: [07:20]

The hosts scrutinize President Trump's recent post on Truth Social, where he boldly claims, "We now have complete and total control of the skies over Iran." Krystal questions the authenticity and implications of this statement, suggesting it may indicate a strategic shift towards a more aggressive foreign policy.

Notable Quote:

• Krystal Ball: "President Trump here has said that he's actually acknowledging that he's surrendering American foreign policy to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu."

• Saagar Enjeti: "It's a living, breathing document... That's not how we do it anymore."

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3. Lindsey Graham's Proposal to Deploy Troops in Iran

Timestamp: [47:03]

Senator Lindsey Graham's recent statements advocating for a decisive military response against Iran are dissected. Graham emphasizes the existential threat posed by Iran's potential acquisition of nuclear weapons and urges swift action to neutralize Iran's nuclear capabilities.

Notable Quote:

• Lindsey Graham: "If we don't take out their nuclear program now, we'll all regret it."

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4. Tucker Carlson’s Confrontation with Ted Cruz

Timestamp: [60:12]

A heated exchange between Tucker Carlson and Senator Ted Cruz is examined, where Carlson challenges Cruz's understanding of Iran's demographics and motivations for potential regime change. The confrontation underscores the deep divisions within the Republican Party regarding foreign policy strategies.

Notable Quotes:

• Tucker Carlson: "How can you support an attack on Iran if you don't know the population of the country you're seeking to topple?"

• Ted Cruz: "Because they're building nuclear weapons. I want to destroy America and Israel."

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5. War Powers Debate in Congress

Timestamp: [39:16]

The episode shifts focus to the internal congressional debates surrounding the War Powers Resolution. Krystal and Saagar discuss bipartisan efforts by Representatives Ro Khanna and Thomas Massie to require congressional approval for offensive military actions against Iran, highlighting the resistance from the Republican-controlled Senate and House.

Notable Quote:

• Krystal Ball: "We have to at least put people on record, or that's the hope at least, and could get up to 27 or 30 co-sponsors at this point."

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6. Impact of Military Actions on Iran and Oil Markets

Timestamp: [35:22]

The potential consequences of escalating military actions against Iran are explored, including the destabilization of oil markets. Saagar points out the strategic vulnerabilities, such as Iran's threat to mine the Strait of Hormuz, which could severely disrupt global oil supply chains.

Notable Quote:

• Saagar Enjeti: "We are right now simmering on the edge of... teetering on the brink of full-blown war."

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7. Analysis of J.D. Vance’s Position on Iran

Timestamp: [17:26]

J.D. Vance's recent statements challenging the prevailing narrative about Iran's nuclear ambitions are analyzed. The hosts discuss Vance's attempts to balance his support for the President with critical views on the administration's handling of the Iran conflict.

Notable Quote:

• J.D. Vance: "I'm seeing this from the inside and I'm admittedly biased towards our president..."

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8. Consequences of Potential Full-Scale War

Timestamp: [77:14]

Krystal and Saagar contemplate the broader implications of a potential full-scale war with Iran, referencing historical precedents such as the Iraq War. They argue that without a nuanced understanding of Iran's internal dynamics, military intervention could lead to prolonged conflict and regional instability.

Notable Quote:

• Krystal Ball: "If you create this power vacuum and you have half the country fighting the other half, that's something we should consider before we go into war."

---

9. Domestic Opposition and Support within the GOP

Timestamp: [57:38]

The discussion turns to the varying perspectives within the Republican Party, highlighting figures like Charlie Kirk and Ted Cruz who voice concerns over the proposed military actions. Krystal and Saagar explore the tension between pro-war factions and those advocating for restraint.

Notable Quote:

• Matt Walsh (Daily Wire): "This is insane, reckless madness from a war mongering asshole who's been in office for 30 years..."

---

10. Technological and Cyber Threats Amidst Conflict

Timestamp: [37:24]

The episode also touches upon the cyber warfare aspect, mentioning Israeli hacker groups targeting Iranian banks and cryptocurrency platforms. This cyber aggression adds another layer of complexity to the already volatile situation.

Notable Quote:

• Saagar Enjeti: "Predatory Sparrow... hacked two IRGC linked banks... made off with like $47 million."

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11. Future Prospects and Ongoing Tensions

Timestamp: [72:11]

Concluding the episode, Krystal and Saagar forecast the potential pathways the U.S.-Iran conflict might take, emphasizing the precarious balance between diplomacy and military action. They encourage listeners to stay informed and engaged with independent media sources.

Notable Quote:

• Krystal Ball: "This is very similar to the Qasem Soleimani assassination in 2020... it's a deceptive mix of diplomacy and aggression."

---

Conclusion

Timestamp: [60:12]

Krystal and Saagar wrap up the episode by reiterating the critical need for informed discourse and the dangers of unchecked military escalation. They call for accountability and transparency in foreign policy decisions, urging their audience to support independent journalism as a means to hold powerful entities accountable.

Notable Quote:

• Krystal Ball: "This is a very seductive approach, but it easily ends up boiling into hot conflict."

---

This episode of "Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar" offers a comprehensive analysis of the intricate and potentially volatile relationship between the United States and Iran. Through incisive commentary and robust debate, the hosts illuminate the multifaceted challenges facing policymakers and the broader implications for global stability.

Transcript

[Ryan Grim]

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[Tom Yamas]

Learn [e-mail] productivity IBM let's create taking over the helm of NBC nightly news a 75 year old broadcast. It's a great responsibility. Good evening, I'm Tom Yamas. You have to go out there to bring people at home closer to the store. Wildfires continue to be a threat. With that massive hurricane comes the massive response. The best reporters in our business know how to listen. And when you listen, you get the truth. For NBC News, NBC News, I'm Tom Yamas. That's what we do every night. NBC Nightly News with Tom Yamas, evenings on NBC.

[Ryan Grim]

Hello, it is Ryan. And we could all use an extra bright spot in our day, couldn't we? Just to make up for things like sitting in traffic, doing the dishes, counting your steps, you know, all the mundane stuff. That is why I'm such a big fan of Chumba Casino. Chumba Casino has all your favorite social casino style games that you can play for free, anytime, anywhere with daily bonuses. So sign up [e-mail] that's chumbacasino.com no purchase necessary vgw group void where prohibited by law 21 + terms and conditions apply. Hey guys, Sagar and Krystal here. Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show. This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else. So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access.

[Krystal Ball]

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[Ryan Grim]

And all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

[Sagar Enjeti]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we.

[Ryan Grim]

Hope to see [e-mail] Happy Wednesday. Welcome to Breaking Points. Emily, how you doing?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Doing well, Ryan. We've got a big show, lots of developments out in the Middle east to.

[Ryan Grim]

Cover and we have such a packed show. We were going to actually, and I'm not even joking this time and I know it's hard for people to Tell when I'm joking or not. We were going to have Dr. Turtle Boy on to cover the Karen Reed verdict.

[Sagar Enjeti]

We were so close.

[Ryan Grim]

The verdict did not come yesterday. It should have. The judge screwed it up. It's probably going to come this morning. It's going to be not guilty, I'm telling you now. Yeah, maybe. Maybe they'll get her on the oui thing, the drinking and driving. It's a really important case for not just police abuse, corruption, but also the First Amendment because Dr. Turtle Boy was charged with a bunch of different crimes for reporting on the case. Literally for reporting on the case. And so far he's been victorious in all of those cases. Solidarity with Turtle Boy.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, big time. And just. No, we are in touch with Turtle.

[Ryan Grim]

Boy, although not necessarily with everything Turtle Boy believes in.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Probably not. But we are in touch with Turtle Boy and we do hope to have him on the show soon. But we're following that case very closely. Maybe we'll have information to cover on.

[Ryan Grim]

We hope to get him. He's done incredible work on that case. So hopefully we'll have him on this week.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, amazing stuff, Ryan. We also have Brad Lander on today's show. That's a big get. He's been making headlines across the country after the dust up yesterday in New York City.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. He spent several hours in federal custody yesterday because he was demanding a warrant from masked men who were trying to haul off. Haul off a New York resident. And so there's video of him. Let me see your warrant. Let me see your warrant. I want to see your warrant. Because there have been people impersonating ICE agents and using that kind of COVID to commit crimes. He's demanding to see documentation that they are who they are. They arrested him and that might upend the mayoral race.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Right. So. Right. He's currently polling around third. Right.

[Ryan Grim]

But he and Zorhan have cross endorsed each other. So in some ways it's a boost for Zorhan.

[Sagar Enjeti]

We will see what he thinks over the last, what he thinks about the last 24 hours. We'll also be joined after we cover development developments out of Iran. We'll certainly cover new statements from Vice President J.D. vance. Ted Cruz did an interview with Tucker Carlson that already is promising to be absolutely explosive. We have a couple of clips from that. You're going to want to see those. Ryan has some developments from Gaza. Obviously, many predicted that in the shadow of what was happening in Iran, there would be some truly awful news to come out of Gaza that has proven sadly accurate. So Ryan is going to break down the latest there. And Ross Barkin will join us to talk more about Alexandria Ocasio Cortez endorsing Zoran Mamdani in New York City. And Ross will be here to kind of analyze what it means for the left.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, Ross is a terrific independent journalist up in New York City. He's really the guy to follow if, if that's what you're interested in.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah. And then we'll be doing a live ama. So if you are a premium subscriber, you can join us for that breakingpoints.com As a reminder, you can head over there if you want to try out a premium subscription. Ryan, let's get into the first block here.

[Ryan Grim]

All right. So Trey Yingst for Fox News, who interestingly, a lot of kind of pro Israel folks have been really angry about because every time that Israel targets and kills a journalist in Gaza, he stands up for them. He also is willing to interview Palestinians, but he's been reporting out of Israel for a very long time and is generally fairly sympathetic towards Israel. But it shows the lack of kind of any daylight that you're allowed as a reporter without getting criticized. But here he is just to set off this block. Reporting from Jerusalem.

[Trey Yingst]

Right now there are ballistic missiles being fired at Israel's second largest city of Tel Aviv. Currently, missile defense systems are working to shoot down the incoming fire. We are going to take some cover here as this unfolds. You can see in the distance interceptor rounds coming off, trying to shoot down. Pull it off the tripod.

[Sagar Enjeti]

And let's.

[Ryan Grim]

Move inside.

[Trey Yingst]

The flash there in the sky, explosions overhead. And again, this is the third barrage.

[Ryan Grim]

I said Jerusalem. He's in Tel Aviv, obviously, which is which is sustaining most of the ongoing blows. The 10th wave Iran from Iran came yesterday as there seems to be no sign yet of a ceasefire or a slowing down of the of the back and forth here with Israel saying that tomorrow, Thursday they're going, they have some huge surprise up their sleeve that they're going to launch.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah. And so the latest reporting is that 50 jets were striking Iran, 50 Israeli jets were striking Iran yesterday, reportedly the centrifuge and missile production sites. But that particular shot for Trey Yingst is a dangerous one because the Iron Dome has been breached. There have been successful strikes over the course of the last week. So you can understand why he ran for cover in that case. Ryan, now to your point, Trump posted Yesterday, this is a 2 this is a true social post from Donald Trump yesterday. All caps, unconditional surrender.

[Ryan Grim]

I saw that. And I was so glad that this is over.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, he did it.

[Ryan Grim]

We have surrendered.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I shouldn't laugh at that.

[Ryan Grim]

It wasn't actually us surrendering to Iran. It actually meant he had surrendered to Israel and is just going to allow them. He's like, he thought for a while he was going to run American foreign policy, which is an understandable mistake because he ran for President of the United States and got more, he got more votes. And Netanyahu did not run. Biden ran for a while, but he dropped out, if you may remember, then Kamala Harris filled in and then all the American people who felt like voting went to the polls and elected somebody to be the President of the United States, which in the Constitution sets American foreign policy. That was written many hundreds of years ago. So that's not how we do it.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It's a living, breathing document.

[Ryan Grim]

Right? It's a living dead document. So it's not how we do it anymore. So President Trump here has said that he's actually acknowledging that he's surrendering American foreign policy to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Meanwhile, this is a one you can see, these are installations. Nuclear facilities across Tehran reportedly being obliterated, as this post on X puts it by the iaf. Lots and lots of hits. Now, the reporting, Ryan, about Trump and the way that he has reacted to this. And it's important that you're watching what you're seeing on your screen right now as we get into this New York Times tidbit, Greg Sargent posted it by saying, pretty funny to watch. Quote, Anti war Trumps suddenly decide that war making looks totally awesome on TV and gravit toward war with Iran. Literally on that basis, he was responding to this Times report that when Donald Trump woke up last Friday morning, quote, his favorite TV channel, Fox News, was broadcasting wall to wall imagery of what it was portraying as Israel's military genius. Mr. Trump could not resist claiming some credit for himself. In phone calls with reporters, Mr. Trump began hinting that he had played a bigger behind the scenes role in the war than people realized. Privately, he told some confidants that he was now leaning toward a more serious escalation going along with Israel's earlier request the US deliver powerful bunker busting bombs. So, Ryan, that then brings us to A four, which was another post on Truth Social yesterday. Immediately, immediately everyone pointed out the implication of what Trump is saying here when he goes, quote, we now have complete and total control of the skies over Iran. Iran had good sky trackers and other defensive equipment and plenty of it. But it doesn't compare to American made, conceived and made manufactured stuff. Nobody does it better than the good old usa. So that first line in particular, we now have complete and total control of the skies over Iran. When you combine that with the New York Times report that Craig Sargent posted, it's an interesting, I think, potential window into the way Donald Trump, on a substantial basis, not even just stylistically, but substantially, is now approaching this war, which is that US Involvement projects strength. And there's nothing he likes more than the projection of strength. If he were here and had a fair shot to defend himself, he would say, absolutely, that's policy in and of itself. That strength, that is the policy, that is the end goal, is so that the United States looks strong and hegemonic. And I think that's increasingly what his quote, unquote, America first foreign policy is conceived of in his own mind. The problem, and we'll talk about this in the next block, is that's not how a lot of his own allies.

[Ryan Grim]

See reminds me a little bit of his approach to the tariffs, in the sense that he just launches these tariffs at everybody and says the goal of them ultimately is he's going to force China and Japan and all of these countries to the negotiating table. He's like, they're all. The phone is ringing off the hook. The tariffs are working. Now, Netanyahu, apparently one of the ways he was able to sell these strikes to Trump is as a way to win leverage in the negotiations. And so there's talk that, oh, he's going to have Witkoff, or he's going to send Vance to speak with various Iranian negotiators that he hasn't murdered yet, and that if he can do that, that that's a win. Except in both cases, they were already at the table. You want to talk to China or Japan about trade, call them up. They're happy to talk. Iran was literally already at the negotiating table. They were supposed to meet last Sunday until they killed some of the negotiators and the meetings were canceled. So then you go ahead and say, one of the things we're trying to do is get them back to the table. It's like when it was first suggested to me the night of the attacks that this was the way that Netanyahu had persuaded Trump. I thought, not even Trump is that stupid. That makes no sense. You're already negotiating. You don't need to bomb them to get to negotiate with them. But apparently that worked. That combined with, look how cool war looks on TV. It's similar to the Qasem Soleimani assassination in 2020. The Israelis came to Trump and said that they wanted to assassinate Soleimani and that they would, but they needed the US to do it because they don't, they didn't have the, they wanted the US to do it, but they would take the credit for it. The credit, blame for it. Trump said, no, no, no, I want the credit for it. I'm gonna do it. And so he used the Saudis to reach out to the Iranians to say that, hey, let's let bygones be bygones. Let's try to ease tensions a little bit. Yeah, I left the Iran nuclear deal, but let's, you know, let's live together peacefully in this world. The kind of stuff Trump says now. And so they lure him to Baghdad for these peace negotiations and then when he gets into a car outside the airport with a drone, they kill him and everybody in the car and then he takes credit for it. So all of it's very similar. Pretending to use diplomacy, pretending to care about peaceful coexistence and then salivating over like with a real lust. That's kind of disturbing. Well, that's the death and carnage.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's sort of the crux of it is that I think these tiktoks are really the tick tock New York Times reporting, Axios reporting. They're all strategically, they're full of strategic leaks. And that doesn't mean the reports are incorrect, but it's actually really hard. Right.

[Ryan Grim]

They might be to know, you know, we're getting lied to constantly.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Totally. And it's for different reasons too. So part of actually the implication of all that reporting is in fact that Trump was strategically, the administration at least was strategically leaking that they were dead serious about diplomacy and they weren't. That's one of the theories. Yeah, the dead is the, that's the operative part of it. But that was, I mean, that's actually part of one of the stories we're being sold is that they were projecting, using the media and their own public posturing to project seriousness about these negotiations. We actually still don't know whether or not that's true or whether to the point you just raised that Donald Trump's hand was forced by Netanyahu in a way that made Trump, who wants to always look hegemonic, who wants to look like he is the embodiment of strength, his United States is the embodiment of strength, is then his hand is being forced by Netanyahu because he feels like the United States and Netanyahu knows he feels like the United States needs to look as though it's in control and post things like, quote, unquote, we have total control over the skies. I don't think we still have a clear answer on what happened. I think we can have, we have good indications in one direction or the other, but we still don't quite know. And I think that that's where you see J.D. vance coming in yesterday. He got into a back and forth with Cassandra McDonald. We can put a five, we can roll through a five and a six actually. But he posted a really lengthy note on X yesterday where he said, I'm seeing this from the inside and I'm admittedly biased towards our president parentheses and my friend, but there's a lot of crazy stuff on social media. So I wanted to address some things directly. On the Iran issue, he first notes that Trump has been, quote, amazingly consistent over 10 years that Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. He then says, I've seen a lot of confusion over the issue of quote, unquote, civilian nuclear power and uranium enrichment, but these are diseases distinct issues. He says that Iran has been found in violation of their non proliferation obligations by the International Atomic Energy Agency and then goes on to actually exchange a post with Cassandra McDonald Ryan, who was previously Cassandra Fairbanks, am I right?

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, that's right.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Okay. And she was previously sort of Bernie adjacent.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, I remember her in 2016 being, maybe my memory's going, correct me if I'm wrong down in the comments, but I remember her being like super pro Bernie person in 2016.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So he gets into a back and forth with her over Tulsi Gabbard's testimony that U.S. intelligence's assessment was Iran basically was not close to having a nuclear weapon. And she said, are you saying Tulsi and the 18 US intelligence bodies backing the opposite findings less than eight weeks ago are wrong or lying?

[Ryan Grim]

Yes, it's true, Vance. She was an all Bernie person. So it's interesting that this back and forth is between J.D. vance, who's been on his own political pipeline, and then Cassandra, who was strong Bernie supporter but felt like the Democrats had just, you know, had ruined what Bernie stood for. And so she went on the pipeline over to maga.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Right. And so JD replies and says, no, I'm not saying that. First off, Tulsi's testimony was in March and a lot has changed since then. Second, if you look at what she said then her point about uranium enrichment is consistent with what I wrote above. And Ryan, we are going to get into This a little bit in the next block, but that is the new, I think, attempt for the quote, unquote, America first. Anti neocon maga people who are supportive of Donald Trump's approach over the last week to Israel's attacks on Iran, which are boiling pretty steadily, to usfull US involvement to the bunker buster being used is this argument. This is all consistent because things changed since March 27th. They are genuinely very close to enrichment, et cetera.

[Ryan Grim]

Right, But I just. Does anybody believe that? Like that's the thing. That's the thing. And I'm wondering about the Trump supporters. Like you guys have seen the videos of Netanyahu saying since like the 2000 early 2000s, that if you just do. If you. Iran is right around the corner from getting a bomb. There's also some fun videos going around of him starting in 1982 saying that if the US would just do X, then terrorism will go away. And the first One is in 1982. He says, if we can just get rid of the Soviet Union, then their puppets, the PLO will be destroyed and there will be no kind of Palestinian resistance movement. He says, and there will be no terrorism anywhere in the world. You get rid of the Soviet Union, there'll be no terrorism. He's like, okay, nevermind, it didn't work. If you get rid of Saddam Hussein, there will be no terrorism anywhere and no instability.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Isn't that great how that works in the Middle East?

[Ryan Grim]

Ironically, of course. What did taking out Iraq do? It empowered Iran. Like it took Iran from a regional subpower to a regional superpower. And so now he says, take out Iran then, now we're not going to have any problems anymore, no instability. And he's been saying for 20 plus years that we're right around the corner from getting a bomb. And Vance, who was a very smart man, worded that response to Cassandra very cleverly. What about Tulsi? Was she wrong? And he says no, a lot has changed since March. Right, but what did he not say there? He did not say, we have new intelligence that suggests that since March, Iran is trying to make some breakout for a bomb. Because according to the intelligence assessments and all of the reporting, we do not have that intelligence. And that is not the case. And the Ayatollah and the political leadership in Iran had not made that decision. They have their own reasons not to want that. They don't want proliferation in the region. Not only did they think that it would be bad for them, and they kind of built the program as a chip to trade away for getting rid of sanctions. They don't want Saudi Arabia, the UAE and all these other countries to have nuclear weapons either, because sometimes they get in conflicts with them. They went through one of the nastiest wars of the last 50 years with Iraq and those people fought in that war. So they have their own strategic reasons not to want nuclear. They also know if they use a nuclear weapon against Israel, Israel has second strike capabilities and they're finished. So for all these reasons, our intelligence assessment is that they're not going for a bomb or they were not as of a week ago, taking over the.

[Tom Yamas]

Helm of NBC nightly news, a 75 year old broadcast. It's a great responsibility. Good evening, I'm Tom Yamas. You have to go out there to bring people at home closer to the story. Wildfires continue to be a threat. With that massive hurricane comes the massive response. The best reporters in our business know how to listen. And when you listen, you get the truth. For NBC News, NBC News, I'm Tom Yamas. That's what we do every night. NBC Nightly News with Tom Yamas.

[Ryan Grim]

Evenings on NBC.

[Krystal Ball]

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[Ryan Grim]

The way that Vance says it, a lot has happened since March. That is true. NBA Finals are going on. Karen Reid trial has happened since March.

[Sagar Enjeti]

No lies detected.

[Ryan Grim]

Many other, many things have happened since March. So he can make a true statement, which is fundamentally a lie because Tulsi Gabbard's intel assessment as of March held until the second that they were bombed.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So Tulsi Gabbard, this is actually quite interesting. New reporting suggests that Donald Trump was very irked by that video. We tried to cover last week, but the news cycle just got insane of Tulsi Gabbard coming out and she got really mocked for this because the video was admittedly a bit odd and we're increasingly seeing to know why. The video about nuclear conflict. Do you remember this? She put it out last week and it started with Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

[Ryan Grim]

Oh, I missed this.

[Sagar Enjeti]

As soon as you covered it transitioned into a very eerie, vague warning about these imminent threat of nuclear conflict. Or the looming threat of nuclear conflict would be one way to put it. And it seems increasingly that was interpreted by people around her and was intentionally dropped because Tulsi Gabbard was concerned about potential escalation in this situation. Now, it could be the case that video was actually about Russia, Ukraine. It could be the case that video was about China. It could be the case that the video was just a video. But Trump was reportedly irked by it and saw that as you combine it with the fact that Tulsi Gabbard was left out of the Camp David meeting. Now the reporting is that she had a National Guard conflict, which.

[Ryan Grim]

Come on.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Peter Doocy reported that. Well, there's that, but Peter Doocy reported that she wasn't invited anyway. And so it does seem like the, you know, I think Tulsa Gabbard is sort of Awhat's the right word. She'll transgress the conventional wisdom in a group We've seen her do that like that. She has a history of doing that, whatever you think of her. And so you can understand why people who are increasingly marching in one direction would leave the descent out of a Camp David meeting, for example.

[Ryan Grim]

But I think, however, let's, and not to cut you off, go back to this point in a second. This is from the same New York Times article they write. While everyone knew that Ms. Gabbard was as anti interventionist as they come, she rarely pushed that view on the president. So congratulations to Tulsi Gabbard who switched parties to fight regime change wars to get into a position where you can have an influence to fight against a regime change war and, quote, rarely push that view on the president. Well done. What do you do, Tulsi, if you're watching, what are you doing with your life? What are you doing?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Disagree? Well, I mean, I kind of disagree with that, but I guess it's hard to know. That's the thing with all of these leaks is it's hard to know what's actually happening behind closed doors. I'd rather Tulsi Gabbard be in the administration throwing cold water on all of.

[Ryan Grim]

This, but she's not throwing cold water.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I mean, I guess it's so throw some cold water, Tulsi the politico, a senior administration official told Politico this morning, quote, certainly the video made him Trump, not super hot on her and he doesn't like it when people are off message. So if you're Tulsi Gabbard, obviously to remain in any position of influence, you have to walk an absolute tightrope. And I guess it's just hard to know the extent to which she's done that. I'm glad that it's not, I'll just say Bush 43 at the White House right now, there's at least some possibility of someone raising some cold water. But yeah, you're right. I mean it could be literally just putting out the cryptic video.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, well, when she resigns in protest or gets fired standing invitation, please come on the program and tell us exactly what you did to fight against these regime change wars.

[Sagar Enjeti]

And to your point, J.D. vance is going to have to fill in that blank of what happened. If he wants to remain consistent and placate actually a lot of people in MAGA world, he is going to have to ultimately fill in the blank of what changed since March, especially if the United States involvement increases. Now, the Supreme Leader Khamenei has responded and said that Iran won't accept, quote, imposed war or imposed peace and has warned that any United States strikes will have, quote, serious irreparable consequences. The reporting is also that Iran is potentially preparing to hit US Bases. That's not surprising at all. But US Bases in the region, which is means that we could be dragged into this, as everyone knows, at any moment, but that also that there could be deaths of U.S. military personnel at any moment. And so we are right now simmering on the edge of. It doesn't look like we're heading for de escalation in any way whatsoever. It looks like right now we're teetering on the brink of full blown war.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. And according to Yoav Galant, we can play this here. It is our obligation, the United States obligation to enter into this war of their choosing. Let's play a seven. I believe that the United States of America and the President of the United States have an obligation to make sure that the region is going to a positive way and that the world is free from Iran that possess nuclear weapon in the middle of the richest place in oil and gas in the world. This could be a disaster for the world. And I believe that the determination of the American president that have been shown recently will pave the way to America to enter into this very important operation. The President of the United States have the option to change the Middle east and influence the war and influence the world. So if you read the New York Times piece very closely, you get to parts where it just doesn't make sense. Like Trump is on the phone with Netanyahu telling him he doesn't want to want Netanyahu to attack Iran while he's still doing the negotiations. And he gets off the phone, he's like, well, nothing I can do. It looks like he's going to do it and we might have to join him, might have to help him out. It's like, really?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Otherwise we look weak from his perspective.

[Ryan Grim]

Or you say you're not doing that and if you do, we're not replenishing your weapon stocks.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, that would be strange.

[Ryan Grim]

Which they have their own domestic industry and there are people in Israel who have been calling for, you know, less U.S. military support because they want to build up their own weapons industry even more than it is so that they're completely independent and can continue war endlessly, you know, without any pressure from anybody, including us. So let them do that. Then it's like, tell Netanyahu, okay, if that's what you're going to do, you're going to do it alone. But it sounds like Netanyahu just told him what he was going to do and that told him basically, you're gonna help us whether you like it or not. What did we have the whole election for? We covered it. We spent like a year on this dumb show covering the presidential election. Why.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Should we just cover the Israeli elections?

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, yeah, I guess so.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, Donald Trump, when he first won the Republican primary, was winning a lot of votes, specifically as a critic of American foreign policy, which led a lot of people to categorize him sort of neatly as an anti interventionist, which has never been true. We knew that from his first term that that was never true. And the Times report, and we can go full circle here, that we mentioned at the beginning of this block about Trump seeing on Fox News the images of Israel bombing Iran and inching closer and closer to war. Again, that isall of this is strategic leaking, it's fog of war media information. So you have to, you know, learn, we all have to learn from what's happened many times in the past and try the best we can to piece together the puzzle of what happened here. And that's already hard enough to do with Donald Trump's foreign policy because I think it's so often about optics. But that's why that particular part of the report rings true. I mean, he just spent tens of millions of dollars on a military parade for admittedly the reason of optics, that's.

[Ryan Grim]

The, I guess, which just killed a woman.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I saw that on New York avenue here in D.C. but that is the predicate of peace through strength. I mean, it's obviously not just optics, but that the projection of strength is the, and this is taking in good faith, obviously that argument. And I'm not saying that the argument is being made by everyone in good faith, because certainly it's not, but that you have to look strong in order to have your foreign policy serve as a deterrent. Now, the problem is that is very seductive and it easily ends up boiling into hot conflict. That's why it's always been sort of funny to see in a tragic way the peace through strength conservative movement reported repeatedly support hot conflicts. You know, from Gulf War, then you can get into Iraq, obviously, and Afghanistan, but also even just like post Cold War skirmishes and different outposts, peace through strength, it's really easy for that to just go strength and you never actually get to the peace.

[Ryan Grim]

That would be the history of the American empire, right?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Definitely the history of the last 30 years, at least the last 30 years. But we don't quite know where this is going. We do have this quote, and again, this is a Trump administration official to Dasha Burns at Politico, Quote, the movement right now is away from diplomacy and toward U.S. involvement. We are moving toward taking out Iranian nuclear facilities. So that's what's on the table. It could happen at any moment.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes. The logic seems to inexorably lead to a strike on the Fordo kind of mountain nuclear facility. Like that seems to be like, I don't make any predictions, but like that's where this is headed.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, it's hard to see.

[Ryan Grim]

And where that goes from here. What oil is, what, up to what, 70 something a barrel. Now oil prices are surging. Iran is threatening to mine the Strait of Hormuz, which is where half the world's oil moves through. Iranian, UAE and Saudi oil moves through there. Natural gas from Qatar moves through there. China has built a railway from China to Tehran to ship oil from Iran to China. It's not fully operational. I think its first kind of maiden voyage was a couple weeks ago. But once that gets going, they'll be able to move enormous amounts of oil into China, which is where most of the Iranian oil goes because of our stupid sanctions. They get it actually much cheaper than they otherwise would. Incredible American policy. Our policy is going to be that one of the world's biggest oil producers must sell its oil at a discount to our adversary China. Like that's our policy. Because. Reasons.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Reasons. Well, just before we leave this block and get into the politics of it, the death toll right now, according to one human rights group, they're saying it's at least 585 Iranians wounded. That's the death toll. Wounded is north of 1300. That's according to the group Human Rights Activists. There are, there's other estimates that put that a bit lower. The Associated Press reports that Iran has a history of downplaying death tolls. And so the higher number might be the safer assumption in this case. But 24 dead in Israel as well. And it looks, Ryan, like those numbers aren't going to slow down.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. And Trump said everybody in Tehran needs to evacuate. Then he, then he backed off of that. Israelis have said everybody in, I think District 18 in Tehran needs to evacuate, which is in the center of the city. It's a city of 10 million people. We've spoken to people who are there and are in contact with them. They said there's no gas. Like, you know, when you have a crisis, you can't replenish the gas supplies at the gas stations. So there's no gas, like, so if you don't have a tank of gas, you're not getting out of town. Also, traffic is utterly gridlocked and it's a city of 10 million people, so you cannot just flat evacuate it. Also, banks are shut down because of Israeli hacks. This hacker group called Predatory Sparrow, which is known to be affiliated with Israel, hacked two IRGC linked banks, which are also very popular banks among regular people. So people can't get there money. I'm also told that the same hacker group took down this IRGC linked crypto company, I forget what it's called, and made off with like $47 million. And so Iranians, in order to, because of sanctions, crypto is a very popular means of moving money around just between, just from people overseas into Iran. Like you live in Los Angeles, you send money to your family back into Iran. Crypto is an easy way to do it. And so that has been routed. So yeah, the destruction, aside from the kind of physical and material destruction, and so you tell somebody you need to evacuate under those circumstances, like it's not going to happen. People are just going to hunker down and, and hope that they don't get killed.

[Sagar Enjeti]

And finally, let's put this last element on screen A8. This is the debate over war powers that is escalating in Congress. Now, obviously with Republican control of the House and the Senate, it's unlikely this is brought to the floor or becomes a serious possibility of getting passed. But as the New York Times reports here, there's in the House a Democrat or Republican, quote, teamed up on Tuesday to introduce a resolution that would require congressional approval before US troops could engage in offensive attacks against Iran. The measure by Ro Khanna and Thomas Massie underscored a view held by many in Congress that Mr. Trump should not be able to decide on his own whether the US Wades deeper into the conflict. Now, Senator Tim Kaine on Monday introduced a similar resolution, the Times says, referring to the upper chamber there. And Brian, this is, I can't believe we're even so quaint and so obvious that this should not be covered by the AUMFs. But here we are and it's hardly making a ripple.

[Ryan Grim]

Do they even claim that it's covered by the AUMF? The AUMF they haven't so far passed in 2002 is aimed at Al Qaeda and its allies, Al Qaeda and Iran, you know, basically a war and how. Or. Yeah, and Right, exactly. So to the extent that Al Qaeda exists, as it used to, like Iran, is there is Iran as their adversary. So trying to use it in that context would be absurd. I think they're just. They're not even caring. No, they're just. They're just going to do it. And so Tim Kaine has put forward in the Senate and Massie in the House a war powers resolution, and Bernie Sanders has put forward in the Senate a bill that would basically say that would block the use of funds for an attack on Iran. We asked Tim Kaine why he went this route rather than blocking funds. And Kaine told us drop sidewall story later today. Teaming up with the prospect actually that he wanted something privileged. Privileged means the leadership in the House and Senate cannot block it. That's why Massie would have done the resolution that way, too. So it comes. So it has to at least come to the floor for a vote. The bite that it has is less than if you pull funds because saying, hey, we say you can't do this. It's unconstitutional. Presidents have been like, whatever, take a hike. We're doing it anyway. But they're going to at least put people on record, or that's the hope at least, and could get up to. I think they're at, what, 27 or 30 co sponsors at this point.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That'd be incredible.

[Ryan Grim]

Right. But it still raises the question of where. Why isn't the Democratic Party seizing this opportunity like a. You think Trump is a tyrant? He manhandled a senator last week. Indicted a Democratic member of Congress last week for some ice stuff. Or two weeks ago. Yesterday, he arrested a he as in ice Democratic mayoral candidates in New York. You think this guy's a tyrant. You don't think he has legal authority to launch his war, and you're just going to kind of sit back and let Tim Kaine and Bernie Sanders and Massie do something? Ro Khanna called out. I think he's going to be on the program Friday. Ro Khanna called out Schumer for Schumer. Schumer's response was, if we decide we're going to do it, we will definitely assert our authority. Like what? I mean, if you decide you're gonna. What kind of thing is that to say?

[Sagar Enjeti]

We'll see.

[Ryan Grim]

Do it or don't do it.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

So in other words, you're not. Which goes.

[Sagar Enjeti]

This is why Congress should vote on these decisions. That's exactly why Congress should be forced to vote on these decisions.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. Of course. People should, in a republic should have a say in this stuff.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Completely insane. But here we are.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. So, yeah, you can call your member of Congress. Tell them to co sponsor this resolution, this war powers resolution. So at least there's some counter pressure.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Tom Yamas]

Taking over the helm of NBC nightly news, a 75 year old broadcast. It's a great responsibility. Good evening, I'm Tom Yamas. You have to go out there to bring people at home closer to the store. Wildfires continue to be a to threat. With that massive hurricane comes the massive response. The best reporters in our business know how to listen. And when you listen, you get the truth. For NBC News, NBC News, NBC News. I'm Tom Yamas. That's what we do every night. NBC Nightly News with Tom Yamas.

[Ryan Grim]

Evenings on NBC.

[Krystal Ball]

Future Health Weight Loss Wato zempic but can't afford thousands a month. You need WeGovy for $399 all in, no hidden fees. The only FDA approved GLP1 for weight loss at the lowest price yet save hundreds on authentic, safe, effective WeGovy pre dosed injection pens for a limited time. No insurance needed, no tricky syringes, just faster weight loss. Get this limited time [e-mail] today for the best price on the market. These meds eliminate hunger and cravings while Future Health handles the rest. Easy. Join those losing 10 pounds their first month. Plus you don't have to drive to a doctor's office. It's all online via telehealth with licensed clinicians in your area. Go to futurehealth.com to see if you qualify and start losing weight this week. Visit futurehealth.com future without the E Future Health weight loss database on independent studies sponsored by Future Health. Future Health is not a healthcare services provider. Meds are prescribed at provider's discretion for period protection.

[Bill Mitchell]

You can put on and forget about nothing. Beats Nyx. Leak proof Underwear North America's number one leak proof underwear brand. Let's face it, life can be unpredictable. But your leak proof underwear shouldn't be. That's why millions of people choose Nyx for periods, for light leaks, for everyday freshness. Nick's undies are super comfy, super absorbent and made to handle whatever your day throws at you. Day two of your period covered your daily run. No problem. That big sneeze? You know the one? Yep. We've got you. And with styles like bikinis, boy shorts, thongs and high rise plus sizes from extra small to 4XL, NYX makes it easy to find your perfect fit. Say goodbye to stress and leaks. And say hello to undies that work just as hard as you do. No matter the leak, find the style and level of protection you [e-mail] and use code FLOW15 for 15% off. That's K-N-I x.com, code FLO15 for 15% off. Nix for your leaks, for your life.

[Sagar Enjeti]

RYAN Speaking of counter pressure and the degree to which it may or may not exist in the West Wing and in the Republican Party, let's transition to this next block where we're going to start here with Lindsey Graham on Fox News yesterday making a statement that then reverberated across X on and particularly with people who are typically allies of Donald Trump, who are influential voices on the right. So let's first roll Lindsey Graham on FOX News and then get into the reaction that it set off. Can you guarantee that? Can President Trump in any form, I mean, can you make the commitment that this would not lead to a longer war?

[Trey Yingst]

I can guarantee, guarantee you that if the ayatollah gets a nuclear weapon, he will use it. I believe that with all my heart and soul. So the men and women who serve, they're the ones going, not people answering a poll. And if you ask them, would you be willing to risk your life to stop the ayatollah from having a nuclear weapon, all of them would say yes, because it makes their country, our country, safer. So we live in a world where you've got to confront problems. You want to avoid World War 3, learn the lessons from the World War II people in World War II appeased Hitler to the point that it got so much out of hand, we had a world war and 60 million people got killed. So we live in a world where you pay now or you pay later. I hope it's eliminated. I would like to see this regime fall, but I'm going to leave it up to the president as to what to do and when to do it. But I do know this, if we don't take out their nuclear program now, we'll all regret it. We're very close. Be all in, Mr. President, and helping Israel finish the job. And let's see where we're at after we neutralize our nuclear program.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So it goes without saying that Charlie Kirk is obviously very close to Donald Trump, very close to the White House, and particularly close to Donald Trump Jr. This B2 is how Charlie Kirk responded to Lindsey Graham's statement that he would like to see the regime fall. He says this is insane. Regime change will result in a bloody civil war killing hundreds of thousands and creating another massive Muslim refugee crisis. Toppling, toppling a leader is never as easy as you think it almost always results in further involvement, a civil war and chaos. Resist this. Matt Walsh of the Daily Wire responded. Lindsey Graham is calling for a full scale invasion of Iran for the sake of, quote, fighting for our freedom. This is insane, reckless madness from a war mongering asshole who's been in office for 30 years and never done a single thing to make life better for Americans. Every single, every true America. First conservative should reject this maniac and everyone like him referring to Lindsey Graham. A regime change war in the Middle east has never made Americans freer. Ryan. Obviously the goal right now of Lindsey Graham and his allies is to convince MAGA world that this time is different. You mentioned this earlier. This time, J.D. vance to the point that he was responding to Cassandra McDonald about this time. There is different information since March and trust us when we say it, this time we're just, you know, we're the good guys here. We're not doing what those.

[Ryan Grim]

We will be greeted as liberators this time.

[Sagar Enjeti]

This time we are not Colin Powell in front of the UN Things really did change since March, for example, and that's where they find themselves right now, which is quite interesting because they've dined out for the last decade on criticizing Colin Powell and Donald Rumsfeld and all of those genuine neoconservatives. They've dined out for about a decade on slamming them and doing it, to borrow a word you used earlier in the show, lustily. Right. With great glee. And here they find themselves apparently, listen, maybe this time is different. Seems unlikely. Maybe. And here they find themselves in the same exact situation.

[Ryan Grim]

Right. And to give credit to kind of the MAGA movement, it is willing to have debates over policy to give discredit to the MAGA movement because everyone is so loyal to Trump and because Trump takes loyalty so seriously and holds such long grudges, those debates can never include criticism of Trump. So in this case, Lindsey Graham presents a nice target for people who want to criticize Trump's policy here, but don't want to criticize Trump. So when Lindsey Graham goes so far out on a limb and says such extreme stuff, it's like, okay, now we feel free because Lindsey Graham has had his ups and downs with Trump. He's tight with him, but he's also like said he's done with him. He'll remember Trump gave his phone number out at a rally.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, that's like 2016 vintage.

[Ryan Grim]

So Lindsey Graham is fair game within, Meg. You can hit him. And so they're kind of taking that opportunity. Marjorie Taylor Greene And Matt Gaetz, meanwhile, making an awful lot of sense. Let's roll them on. Matt, I see it just as you do, and you laid that out so well. That's the America first message. But it's also the truth that the American people have woken up to. We've watched for decades propaganda news. I'll call out Fox News and the New York Post. They're known to be the neocon network news. We have propaganda news on our side, just like the left does. And the American people have been brainwashed.

[Trey Yingst]

Into believing that America has to engage.

[Ryan Grim]

In these foreign wars in order for us to survive. And it's absolutely not true. Prime Minister Netanyahu said, I saw on video, he said today that America first is America dead. And that sounds like a threat to me. And I completely, completely disagree with him on that. Can Oan get a better mic for Marjorie Taylor Greene? You're on cable. Like, you lobbied Congress to, like, force cable companies to pay you so you could be on cable. Use some of that money. Send her a mic. Come on. What are you doing? What are you guys doing here?

[Sagar Enjeti]

You should send it to her just as a courtesy.

[Ryan Grim]

Well, I'll send her a mic if she'll use it. Let's jump to B6 before we get to Bill Mitchell. B6 is Donald Trump Jr. Because. And I need you to unpack this for us. So Posobiek says, you know, it's close to. He's close to Bannon and close to Trump. You know, when people warn that regime change, war would break up the MAGA coalition, consider that that is exactly what the neocons want, the Never Trumpers. And then Trump Jr says, this is 100% right. I'd add neocons and Democrats. And that's why I think my criticism, by the way, should be taken even more seriously, because I recognize that if you go to war, this probably does blow up the MAGA coalition, which, hey, fine, I'd rather that the MAGA coalition stay together and we don't get war. But it's true that for a lot of the rich Lowry types and others who want war, and actually, this is a good opportunity to put up Bill Mitchell before you responded. So put up B5. B5 is Bill Mitchell, who became this kind of Democrat, basically. Right? But he says, has anyone considered the possibility that America has miraculously survived so many close calls over the centuries, is that our purpose is to defend Israel. If we quit Israel, I believe God may quit us. And I'm not prepared to take that chance, am I? Didn't Bill Mitchell become kind of anti Trump?

[Sagar Enjeti]

I think he did, but he's sort of like, he's known as like, hardcore maga to the point of being almost like the caricature of a maga boomer on X.

[Ryan Grim]

Okay, never mind.

[Sagar Enjeti]

But I think he may have then, like, moved away from it a bit. But that is a. And you know, there were some people on the right mocking that post or expressing like, just real opposition to what's in that post that's reflective of what we've talked about before. Dispensationalism, fairly common evangelical approach to Israel. Ryan is giggling and it's basically. Yeah. What he's saying is that. And he's taking it even. He's making it even more political than the basic theory is. But dispensationalism is that Israel plays a role, obviously, that political Israel, not the sort of historic nation of Israel, but that political Israel as the nation state that exists right now in 2025, plays a role in the end times. And. And then politically that has nudged a lot of evangelical Christians. I think Mike Huckabee has sort of played very carefully with this in the past, but I think probably including Mike Huckabee, definitely. And everyone remembers his text message to Trump from yesterday, which was sort of. I think the implication of it is that he's thinking of this. Like Bill Mitchell told Donald Trump that God saved him for a reason and then said he wasn't leaving Israel. Huckabee said he wasn't leaving Israel.

[Ryan Grim]

Please bring upon the apocalypse.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It felt like that. You could read into it that way. Yeah. So this is what's being pushed back on by everyone else.

[Ryan Grim]

So Trump Jr. Not that he has a whole lot of influence on Trump Sr. But what should we read into Trump Jr. Cautioning against the very regime change war that his father now seems to be getting excited about.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So Tucker Carlson, Charlie Kirk, Trump Jr. These people are very close to each other. And I think.

[Ryan Grim]

And Vance.

[Sagar Enjeti]

And Vance is very in that. Yes, absolutely. And reporting is that JD Vance has politely opposed. We were talking about Tulsi earlier, but that JD Vance has internally politely opposed this. Again, we don't know how much of that is true. Could just be strategic leaks from the Vance camp to sort of COVID himself, but that's what's been suggested. So my best guess, Ryan, is that what this is is genuine opposition. We keep hearing the Charlie Kirks say trust Trump. We keep hearing JD Vance saying he trusts the Commander in Chief. We've heard a couple of others say that politicians, elected officials, Republican MAGA elected officials say that in the last 48 hours that they just trust Donald Trump's instincts on all of this. So I think my best guess is that they are inclined to be very skeptical, suspicious and opposed to what's happening and have expressed that privately, but are publicly trying to play both sides and look like they're skeptical and suspicious of it. So they're taking every opportunity to lash out at Lindsey Graham. He can kind of be the whipping boy here so that it makes it look like they're not fully neoconservative, even as Donald Trump considers doing exactly what Lindsey Graham is calling for. All right, well, that's, that's my best guess.

[Ryan Grim]

I mean, hey, taking over the helm.

[Tom Yamas]

Of NBC Nightly News, a 75 year old broadcast, it's a great responsibility. Good evening, I'm Tom Yamas. You have to go out there to bring people at home closer to the store. Wildfires continue to be a threat. With that massive hurricane comes the massive response. The best reporters in our business know how to to listen. And when you listen, you get the truth. For NBC News, NBC News, NBC News. I'm Tom Yamas. That's what we do every night. NBC Nightly News with Tom Yamas.

[Ryan Grim]

Evenings on NBC.

[Krystal Ball]

Future Health weight loss wat ozempic but can't afford thousands a month. You need WeGovy for $399 all in no hidden fees. The only FDA approved GLP1 for weight loss at the lowest price yet save hundreds on authentic safe, effective WeGovy pre dosed injection pens for a limited time. No insurance needed, no tricky syringes, just faster weight loss. Get this limited time [e-mail] today for the best price on the market. These meds eliminate hunger and cravings while FutureHealth handles the rest. Easy. Join those losing 10 pounds their first month. Plus you don't have to drive to a doctor's office. It's all online via telehealth with licensed clinicians in your area. Go to futurehealth.com to see if you qualify and start losing weight this week. Visit futurehealth.com future without the E Future Health weight loss database on independent studies sponsored by Future Health. Future Health is not a healthcare services provider. Meds are prescribed to providers discretion for period protection.

[Bill Mitchell]

You can put on and forget about nothing. Beats Nyx. Leak proof underwear North America's number one leak proof underwear brand. Let's face it, life can be unpredictable. But your leak proof underwear shouldn't be. That's why millions of people choose Nyx for periods, for light leaks, for everyday freshness, Nyx undies are super comfy, super absorbent and made to handle whatever your day throws at you. Day two of your period covered your daily run, no problem. That big sneeze? You know the one? Yup. We've got you. And with styles like bikinis, boy shorts, thongs and high rise plus sizes from extra small to 4XL, NYX makes it easy to find your perfect fit. Say goodbye to stress and leaks and say hello to undies that work just as hard as you do, no matter the leak. Find the style and level of protection you [e-mail] and use code flow15 for 15% off. That's kn Ix.com code flow15 for 15% off. Nix for your leaks for your life.

[Ryan Grim]

Let's move from there to Tucker because I think that's a good segue into this now much anticipated interview. You Ted Cruz sat down with Tucker Carlson for his cabin podcast and Tucker has so far released two clips. Ted Cruz already salty about the clips that have been released. The entire podcast episode is not out yet, but it appears like it's going to be Tucker, Carlton and Ted Cruz arguing about war with Iran for a very long time. Let's roll the first first bit.

[G]

How many people living around, by the way?

[H]

I don't know the population at all. No, I don't know the population.

[G]

You don't know the population of the country you seek to topple?

[H]

How many people living around 92 million.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Okay.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[G]

How could you not know that?

[H]

I. I don't sit around memorizing population tables.

[G]

Well, it's kind of relevant because you're calling for the overthrow of the government.

[H]

Why is it relevant whether It's. Well, because 90 million or 80 million or 100 million.

[Ryan Grim]

Why?

[G]

Because if you don't know anything about the country.

[H]

I didn't say I don't know anything about.

[Ryan Grim]

Okay.

[G]

What's the ethn mix of Iran?

[H]

They are Persians and predominantly Shia.

[G]

Okay, you don't know anything about Iran.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So.

[H]

Okay, I am not the Tucker Carlson expert on Iran.

[G]

You're a senator who's calling the government.

[H]

You're the one who claims about the country. No, you don't know anything about the country. You're the one who claims they're not trying to murder Donald Trump.

[G]

You're the one who's saying that who.

[H]

Can'T figure out if it was a good idea to kill General Soleimani. And you said it was bad.

[G]

They're trying to murder Trump. Yes, I do, because you're not calling for military strikes against them in retaliation.

[H]

If they really believe that they're carrying out military strikes today. You said Israel was right with our help. I said we. Israel is leading them, but we're supporting them.

[G]

Well, this, you're breaking news here because the US Government last night denied, the National Security Council spokesman, Alex Pfeiffer denied on behalf of Trump that we were acting on Israel's behalf in any offensive capacity.

[H]

We're not bombing them. Israel's bombing them.

[G]

You just said we were.

[H]

We are supporting Israel.

[G]

You're a senator if you're saying the United States government is. We're with Iran right now.

[Ryan Grim]

People are listening. Now, one reason some of this might be important, Sagar flagged this morning. Let's put up B9. So this is the Iraq war. Coverage is extremely important to go back over because so much of what we're seeing today directly mirrors what we saw in 2001 and two in the lead up to the 2003 invasion. And I'll just read from this quote during this looks like the New York Times find during their conversation with the president, Peter Galbraith claims it became apparent to them that Bush was unfamiliar with the distinction between Sunnis and Shiites. Galbraith reports that the three of them spent some time explaining to Bush that there are two different sects in Islam. To which the president allegedly responded. I thought the Iraqis were Muslims. And so, Emily, I've seen a lot of people defending Ted Cruz here saying, look, you don't have to read the CIA World Factbook about every country to know whether or not you want to invade them. And you know, Cruz's point there is like, doesn't matter if there's 80 million or 110 million. You could say, okay, maybe that particular data point doesn't matter. 70 to 110 million. It's 40, 50 million people we're talking about here. But okay, fine, let's grant that the ethnicity, the ethnic breakdown is so important because what happened in Iraq, just think about it like what actually happened after we invaded. Exactly what Peter Galbraith, by the way, warned would say warned would happen. He said, hey, right now you have a Sunni minority who is in control of the country in the form of Saddam Hussein. There's a Shia majority and there's a Kurdish population up in the north, north that do not like Saddam Hussein. And in fact, there was a no fly zone at the time, kind of basically creating a de facto independent Kurdish region in the north that if you get rid of Saddam Hussein. Iran is going to arm and empower Shia militias who are going to spark a sectarian civil war in Iraq. Yeah, that's what was predicted. And if you didn't know these basic facts about the country, you would not be able to do that analysis. So to say that, oh, Iran is Persian and predominantly Shia is to then say, well, we'll knock off one Shia ayatollah and we'll put a Shia, you know, we'll throw in the Shah's kid and everything will be fine. Your colleague Sohrab over at Unherd Amani wrote a piece recently that actually, and maybe that's where Tucker got it. Maybe he read that and was like, oh, this sounds very familiar. He wrote a piece saying, look, yes, there are a lot of Shia Persians in Iran, but it's like barely a majority. In fact, it doesn't even include the Ayatollah who was there. Right. You have a Kurdish region in the northwest, which we love to foment anywhere we can find a population, anywhere that is interested, that has some skepticism of the Metropole. We'd love to go in and send them some weapons and some encouragement.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Some weapons and some encouragement.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, go ahead. Express your national interest. Yeah, go ahead. You know, we do that everywhere and we're not the only ones that know how to do that. So if you create this power vacuum and you have half the country fighting the other half of the country fighting other sects of the country, that seems like something we should consider before we go into war. So that's why I think it's not fair to say that Tucker was asking him trivia questions.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, no, I mean, listen, I think Tucker's using those questions as a way, a clever way to make a point.

[Ryan Grim]

And Ted Cruz is like the smartest, one of the top five smartest senators, IQ wise.

[Sagar Enjeti]

He's up there for sure. Yeah, he's.

[Ryan Grim]

He and Mike Lee. And Bernie's smart. I can't tell.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I think he's Bernie smart. Yes. So Cruz responded, quote, did a long interview with Tucker. He released a snippet playing a quote, gotcha on the population of Iran. I declined to play that silly game. Watch the full two hour interview where Tucker attacks Trump, attacks the AIPAC lobby, and falsely claims Iran is not trying to assassinate Trump. So Cruz, interestingly enough, is advertising this video as heavily as Tucker, if not even more heavily than Tucker. He also reposted an attempt to criticize Tucker. That said, Tucker, what's the Ayatollah's favorite color? Ted Cruz, I Don't know. Tucker. How then can you support an attack on Iran? Cruz. Because they're building nuclear weapons. I want to destroy America and Israel. Tucker, that's ridiculous. He told me his favorite color is blue. So, yeah, I mean, again, Ted Cruz makes a point that I think actually red.

[Ryan Grim]

Obviously his favorite color is red. Come on.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So easy. It's so easy. He loves our lighting, sources say, but here at breaking points.

[Ryan Grim]

But it's an homage to the Ayatollah.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, yeah. People are gonna believe it when you say that. He's trying to. Tucker's trying to make a very legitimate point. Ted Cruz, I think, has a fairly legitimate response where he says, what does it matter whether the population is 80 million or 100 million or 92 million?

[Ryan Grim]

That's fine, I'll give him that.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That is a perfectly legitimate response. But what Tucker's trying to get at with that line of questioning, has he built, built to. What is the ethnic breakdown? Ethnic breakdown of Iran is exactly what Sager pointed out is that we sit here and play risk from, you know, air conditioned conference rooms in Washington, D.C. basically, and then a bunch of poor American kids end up getting dragged into it and you kill a bunch of civilians. I mean, already 70 women and children are reportedly, have reportedly been killed over the last week in Iran. So that's already happening. And so it's easy, I think, to get caught up, especially when we look back and comparing what happened in the early days of the buildup in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's just so, so easy to get caught up in war as a culture war, as a war as like actual war. And I think Tucker's making a perfectly legitimate point. I'm excited to watch the full two hours here. I think we know what Ted Cruz is going to say. But you made a point earlier in the show I found interesting that at least MAGA is willing to debate these sort of things. I guess that's true. I mean, this is two pretty high profile mainstream MAGA voices sitting down and yelling at each other and encouraging people to watch their argument. I guess that is. That's a glass half full take.

[Ryan Grim]

And notice what Ted Cruz used as two of his retorts to Tucker Carlson in his tweet. Tucker Carlson criticized Trump.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yep, yep.

[Ryan Grim]

Like that's his argument. His argument is not I was right about xyz, it's Tucker Carlson said something mean about Trump. So therefore Tucker Carlson should be rejected. And then he also says, and Tucker Carlson doesn't believe that the Iranians are trying to kill Trump.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Right.

[Ryan Grim]

Which there's this, this whole thing that, like that there was this intel report which apparently Trump does not believe either.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Right.

[Ryan Grim]

That he thinks that this was the deep state lying to him to try to manipulate him. That this claim that Iran was actually trying to kill Trump. There's much more evidence that Ukraine. Did you follow that one assassin?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Much more evidence that Ukraine was actually. Or somebody in Ukraine.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Or somebody in Ukraine. Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

We should cover that, that assassination attempt more in depth. You can go Google it. There's this indictment where one of the guys who tried to kill Trump is like, in communication with Ukrainians. Like, what? So let's go bomb them, I guess. But Tucker's response was, you don't really think that Iran is trying to kill Trump because if you did, you would support bombing them right now for that and you don't you support bombing them over their claims of nuclear enrichment or whatever. So he's basically saying nobody believes it and it's all just a lie.

[Sagar Enjeti]

And so the question going forward then is how Donald Trump reacts. I mean, obviously he's been very critical of Tucker Carlson just in the last several days, but does Trump continue siding with. With Tucker or continue siding with Ted Cruz over Tucker, or does Trump, who is always putting his ear to the ground on his base, as far as his base is concerned, remember, even he was concerned that Netanyahu had a quote, unquote, public relations problem in Gaza about a year ago. So does Trump falter on any of this, or does he see this ultimately in his best interest? Or does he see this as something that's necessary for him to do in order to maintain the support of his own coalition, including, like, he knows, for example, Tucker. He thinks that Tucker will always be with him. I don't think that's the case. But he thinks that he can keep Tucker and Ton Jr. And Charlie Gerke on board, which I think that is probably true. And Tulsi Gabbard, I don't know about that. But can he do that and still keep Miriam Adelson happy? Can he do that and still keep Ted Cruz happy? And the people who believe the same things that Ted Cruz does, can you keep those people happy? And does he think it's more important to keep those people happy? Does he agree with him? We just honestly have no idea at this point. And that's the huge open question.

[Ryan Grim]

So the other clip Tucker released is them going back and forth on Mossad spying on the United States. Let's roll this one.

[G]

Does Mossad share all of its intelligence with us?

[H]

Oh, probably not, but they share a lot. We don't share all of our intelligence with them, but we share a lot. It's a close alliance.

[G]

Do they spy domestically in the United States?

[H]

Oh, they probably do, and we do as well. And friends and allies spy on each other and I assume all of our allies spy on us and that's okay with you. You know what? One of the things about being a conservative is that you're not naive and utopian. You don't think humans are. All part of the reason socialism doesn't work is the mantra. From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs. Doesn't work. As a conservative, I assume people act in their rational self interest.

[G]

So it's conservative to pay people to spy on you.

[H]

It's conservative to recognize that human beings act to their own self interest. And every one of our friends spies on us. And I'm not.

[G]

Do you like it? That's my question. I'm not asking whether they have motive to do it. Of course they do. I understand that. And I.

[Ryan Grim]

And by the way, I'm not mad at them.

[G]

And you're an American lawmaker, so I just want to know.

[Ryan Grim]

Hold on.

[G]

I want to know your attitude. You said that your guiding principle, in fact, the only principle, the only criterion.

[H]

I said guiding the overwhelming. I wouldn't say only.

[G]

Is it in America's interest. Is it in America's interest for Israel to spy on us, including on the president?

[H]

It is in America's interest to be closely allied with Israel because we get huge benefits for it. And you want to see the clearance.

[G]

But I just want to stop on the spine for a second. That it takes place, as you know, including on the President of the United States and several precedents. And I just want to know if that's okay. And why is it okay? Wouldn't an American lawmaker say to a client state, you're not allowed to spy on us? I'm sorry, I know why you want to. I'm not mad at you. But you're not allowed to.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Sure.

[G]

And I don't care for it. I don't want to be spied on by you. Is that it's kind of weird not to say that. But you don't seem able to say that.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. What Tucker's poking at there is this longtime argument from critics of Israel that, that Israel is not a very good ally. And Tucker's saying, look, I don't blame them. They're looking out for their own interests.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Right.

[Ryan Grim]

And fine, but we are Americans. We can look out for our own interests. And if they're going to constantly spy on us. Boris Johnson famously said he thought Netanyahu himself bugged his bathroom when he stayed at his place. Netanyahu is always coming in with these massive diplomatic bags, and people are like, ha, ha. It's funny that he is, you know, having his laundry washed here. What else you think he's breaking in there? Not just his laundry.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Wait, no, the laundry actually isn't. Yeah, that's the thing.

[Ryan Grim]

It's this thing that, like, he brings dirty laundry because there's a free laundry service for, like, foreign leaders to get.

[Sagar Enjeti]

The Watergate or something.

[Ryan Grim]

And everybody laughs about it. It's like morons. He's bringing in more than his laundry.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It's not. It's not. It's never just laundry.

[Ryan Grim]

It's not just laundry.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It's never just laundry. Yeah, I mean, the idea is that our ally or that our interests are always aligned. Right.

[Ryan Grim]

That's the line that Ted Cruz somewhat recently putting a whole bunch of, like, scanners around the White House.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Right. And what Carlson is saying there is that the interests of the United States and Israel are not always aligned in some pretty significant ways. But also, I think he referred to them in that clip as a client and a client state. And so I think the point that he's making is that Israel's interests should as a client state, as he said. But I mean, either way, they were 20% of their military budget annually, and they've said that they wouldn't be able to prosecute the war in Gaza if it weren't for us. So if you are that dependent on another nation, you may think it's in your interest to spy on that nation, but you, Ted Cruz, as a representative of that nation, should tell them not to, because you have the power. And this is what we were talking about earlier in the show when you mentioned that actually if Trump was interested in projecting strength, strength would be coming out and telling Netanyahu to cut it out and seeing, you know, how that would go. And, you know, it's a fair point from Tucker, obviously, that if you, again, want the United States to be so supportive of Israel to the point where Israel is dependent on the United States for its actual existence, which is obviously the case from their perspective and from Ted Cruz's perspective, then shouldn't you tell them maybe not to spy on the United States and not just give them that tacit, hey, everybody does it, so go on ahead and tap our phones and our White House and all that? It seems reasonable Seems reasonable seems reasonable.

[Ryan Grim]

Nothing is reasonable about this though.

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