← Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
6/19/25: Trump Approves Iran Attack, Trump Ices Tulsi, Israel Censors Damage, Israel Low On Interceptors
00:50:04
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- [00:00]
Jenny Garth
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:05]
Sagar Enjeti
Taking over the helm of NBC nightly news, a 75 year old broadcast. It's a great responsibility. Good evening, I'm Tom Yamas. You have to go out there to bring people at home. Closer to the store. Wildfires continue to be a threat. With that massive hurricane comes the massive response. The best reporters in our business know how to listen. And when you listen, you get the truth. For NBC News, NBC News, I'm Tom Galamas. That's what we do every night.
- [00:31]
Krystal Ball
NBC Nightly News with Tom Yamas.
- [00:33]
Tom Yamas
Evenings on NBC. And here we have a specimen from.
- [00:36]
Sagar Enjeti
The early 2000s, a legacy investing platform.
- [00:40]
Tom Yamas
Please don't touch the exhibit folks.
- [00:42]
Sagar Enjeti
It could crash.
- [00:43]
Tom Yamas
Ready to step out of the financial history museum@public.com you can invest in almost everything, stocks, bonds, options and more. You could even put your cash to work at an industry leading 4.1% APY. Leave your clunky outdated platform behind. Go to public.com and fund your account in five minutes or less. Paid for by Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC. Full disclosures at public.com/disclosures.
- [01:05]
Jenny Garth
This is Jenny Garth from I Do Part 2. Can't afford Ozempic? Try WeGovy from Future Health. Just $199 and FDA approved for weight loss. No insurance or tricky syringes needed, just results. Visit futurehealth.com that's future without the E. And start losing weight this week. Future Health weight loss data based on independent studies sponsored by Future Health. Future Health is not a healthcare services provider. Meds are prescribed at providers discretion.
- [01:35]
Sagar Enjeti
Hey guys, Sagar and Krystal here.
- [01:36]
Krystal Ball
Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.
- [01:44]
Sagar Enjeti
This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.
- [01:50]
Krystal Ball
So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.
- [02:01]
Sagar Enjeti
We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breakingpoints.com hello everybody. Happy Thursday. Another day, another day that we're at least not yet offensively involved in this war. But all signs not pointing a particularly good direction. What do we have, Crystal?
- [02:18]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, we've got all the latest. Obviously Trump made a bunch of comments yesterday in the Oval Office. So we'll show You a mashup of that and everything else that we can pull for you to give you an indication of where things may be headed. We're also taking a look at DNI Tulsi Gabbard and what is being reported as an increasingly strained relationship in the White House. Some interesting things to dig into there. Inside of Israel, they are ratcheting up the censorship. In fact, we have a report this morning that an Al Jazeera photographer was detained over daring to show some of the missile damage that Iran was able to inflict. Also, a hospital inside of Israel was struck. And there's a bunch of other details there too for us to get into. The full Tucker vs. Ted Cruz interview is out. We've got a bunch of clips for you. I know you've already seen Ryan and Emily covered a few of them. There's a number more that are, if anything, even more extraordinary. So we'll break those down for you. I think you'll enjoy watching all of that. I certainly did. We also have polled the latest polling to try to read the tea leaves about how people feel about potential offensive war, like us getting directly, directly involved in terms of war with Iran. So some very contradictory indications there. Soramari is gonna join us. He wrote a fantastic piece about what people should know about Iran and how a regime change or regime collapse would go, would likely go given his extensive knowledge of that nation. And we had to get to this one. Obama has joined the chat. He has some comments to offer us from on high. So you always have to pay attention to that.
- [03:46]
Sagar Enjeti
The great sage has decided to descend back amongst his people and to issue an edict. He thinks he's like a pope or something like that and not an elected leader. But anyways, thank you to everybod. We have had so many people joining the show which is so gratifying. I think I said in our last show, this is literally some of the most important work I think that we'll ever do here. So thank you to everybody who's subscribing and to helping out the show breakingpoints.com if you want to become a member and you can support us. Otherwise, just do us a favor, go ahead and hit subscribe on YouTube for the channel and if you're listening to this on a podcast, please go ahead and follow, give us a five star rating. But really, honestly, the most important thing you could do is share the show with a friend, text the link to a friend, put it on your Instagram story, something like that. We really, really appreciate it. But yeah, let's Go ahead and get to the latest comments, what we know right now for Donald Trump.
- [04:36]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. So Trump making a bunch of different statements, some of them somewhat contradictory. Let's go ahead and take a listen to a bit of what he had to say.
- [04:43]
Donald Trump
They should have made the deal. I had a great deal for them. They should have made that deal. 60 days. We talked about it, and in the end they decided not to do it. And now they wish they did it. And they want to meet, but it's a little late to meet, but they want to meet and they want to come to the White House. They'll even come to the White House. So we'll see. I may do that, but it's a shame it wasn't. Could have been done the easy way. And it's interesting because I did ask Tucker, I said, well, are you okay with nuclear weapons being in the hands of Iran? And he sort of didn't like that. He didn't want to, really, but he sort of didn't like that. And I said, well, if it's. If it's okay with you, then you and I do have a difference. But it's really not okay with him. Therefore, you may have to fight, and maybe it'll end, and maybe it'll end very quickly, but there's no way that you can allow, whether you have to fight or not, you can allow Iran to have a nuclear weapon because the entire world will blow up. He said I was going back home to make a ceasefire. That is ceasefire. We're long beyond ceasefire. And I said, why do you say that? Why would you say ceasefire? It's a bad term to use because a ceasefire means, like, everything's going swimmingly, we'll take a little time off. It's not. We're not looking for a ceasefire. We're looking for a total, complete victory. Again, you know what the victory is? No nuclear weapon.
- [06:08]
Tom Yamas
It's Iran and their proxies who have threatened to retaliate against you and your.
- [06:15]
Sagar Enjeti
Team by killing you guys for taking out Solomon.
- [06:18]
Donald Trump
Well, they haven't done that. And that would be a terrible thing for them to do. Not because of me. If they did that, they would be obliterated. That would be the end. I've left instructions about Vance and it's about anybody. They even suggested they come to the White House. It's a big difference. But they've suggested that they come to the White House. That's courageous, but it's not easy for them to do.
- [06:48]
Krystal Ball
So. He says there he wants total and complete victory. And we could actually jump ahead to a 2 some of the latest reporting. And guys, I want you to take everything that comes out of his mouth, comes out of literally any media outlet with a million grains of salt, because all of this is incredibly strategic. Is it the truth? Is it not the truth? Who knows? But this is information that the White House wanted to be put out there. Trump privately approved of attack plans for Iran, but has withheld the final order. President Trump told senior aides late Tuesday he approved of attack plans for Iran was holding off to see if Tehran would abandon its nuclear program. People familiar with the deliberation said Iran's well defended Fordo enrichment facility is a possible US Target buried under a mountain generally considered by military experts to be out of reach of all but the most powerful bombs. So, Sagra, that is the latest in terms of White House statements.
- [07:38]
Sagar Enjeti
Look, nobody knows. And this is the thing with Trump himself. You know, simultaneously he's saying, let's go ahead and invite the Iranians to the White House. The Iranian mission at the United nations denied that report, saying, actually that's not happening. We do know the Iranian foreign minister has been in somewhat intermittent communication with Steve Witkoff. To what end? Again, very unclear. There was two planes that took off yesterday from Tehran to Doha carrying some Iranian negotiators. There's been no announcement from the United States that Steve Wykoff is meeting with them. The Iranian foreign minister will meet with European Union foreign ministers today at some point in a public forum. And Iran has requested a meeting at the UN Security Council basically to connect. None of that is going to necessarily do anything, but we knew that there's some diplomacy. Basically, every single day that the sun rises on Tehran, I'm like, okay, maybe. But at the same time, you do see some very troubling statements here from the president. And let's just put this whole Trump has greenlit the attack, but hasn't given the final order. I mean, let's listen very carefully to the words that he is saying. He's saying, clearly, I want unconditional surrender. Unconditional surrender to Donald Trump means say he said, put your hands up and say, I've had enough and let us bomb your nuclear facilities. That's his version of unconditional surrender. Not even saying, put your hands up and say, okay, fine, we agree not to enrich any more uranium whatsoever. And we can get into the whole IAEA thing and all of that if we would like to. But this is a very important point. And here again, I ask for strategic empathy. This is not in any way empathetic on a personal level to the Iranian regime. The Iranian regime was participated in a nuclear deal with Obama that was thrown out. Then they participated, maybe in good faith, maybe not, but at least in some serious negotiations with the United States of America. And then our president basically publicly acclaimed that those negotiations were a ruse for an Israeli military campaign. Now, as we know right now, the Iranian nuclear program has been degraded, but is in no way shut down. So put yourself in that situation where you're being asked for, quote, unconditional surrender when your regime is basically under attack. These are all Israeli military. Military action at this point points in only one direction, which is straight up regime change. We saw everybody yesterday, all of those strikes, the hacking of their broadcast systems, which we'll show everybody in a little bit. But I just think we should all put that together and say, look, it's pretty clear here that the Ayatollah doesn't have a lot of political maneuver in terms of the validity of his own regime to accept some sort of unconditional surrender. And Israel actually came out with a public statement telling the United States there is no need to negotiate whatsoever. Right. Telling us what to do. So I think we should put all that together. And look, I mean, there is a box that we have been painted in now by the Israelis. It's probably never made more sense for Iran to sprint to a nuclear weapon than right now because that would be the only credible deterrence that they have. So they have sped up the calculus both on their part and on our part. Again, this is not like, this is not to say this is good or bad. This is just purely analytical and we can look through a lot of history to show us why various actors might act in a certain way. So you put all that together. And I mean, I continue to think I do not see a way out for offensive military action. I just don't. It would genuinely have to be a true black swan event. And then we also have to think about the Iranians. I mean, at this point, if you did accept so called unconditional surrender, I mean, what would stop Israel from attacking you in the future? You have no credible deterrent defense. You're just a rump state. And actually you're ripe for takeover from within. Because what segment of the Iranian military or hardliners would even accept that level of humiliation on a national level? I mean, you really do have to put all this together and be like, look, everybody's acting rationally, like in their own interest. Bibi's doing this to preserve his coalition and because he wants America to support him. America, you know, Trump says, I don't want them to have any nuclear weapon. And Iran is like, well, you've boxed this into a corner. And right now there's only one regime on the planet threatened by the United States for having a nuclear weapon that survives to this day. Its name is North Korea. Why does it survive? Cuz it has a nuclear weapon. You know, the logic of it all is circular and it all points to war.
- [12:06]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, Skip ahead to a six. This is Ken Klippenstein's report about regime change. And according, according to Ken, the decision has already been made. He says Trump here, Trump secretly greenlit Iran, war, Israel once regime changed. The US is fine with that, according to his sources. I spoke with Ken yesterday to see if he had any updates here and he said, listen, it's possible that Trump decides that he, rather than the US being directly offensively involved, loads Israel up with all the weapons they would need and just lets them do it. And it kind of depends, and this is like the insanity of this particular president. It kind of depends on if he thinks that a like, cool and tough for it to be us doing it or whether he wants to just let the Israelis handle it. In the end, the difference makes no difference. It is us ultimately, if we're providing the weapons, if we're giving the go ahead, it's us, whether it's our pilots or their pilots, you know, directly dropping out of our jets or theirs. So, you know, that's, I think, the direction that we're heading in. That's the only question. And the reason I say that is because you guys probably saw that report that the reason he decided to more aggressively take credit is because he saw the coverage on Fox News and he thought it looked cool and badass and he wanted to claim credit. So that's the level that we're dealing with here. I mean, totally unserious, just based on a whim, based on vanity. And the real original sin is when he gets out of the JCPOA in his first term. But the more immediate sin, and this is according to Trita Parsi's analysis, which I think is correct, is when he shifts, allows himself to be shifted from, okay, we can work with you on uranium enrichment. Wyckoff had some genuinely creative ideas about a regional consortium and okay, how can we make this work? To adopting the hardliners position of absolutely zero enrichment. There was only one reason that the Israelis and the hardliners were trying to put that requirement into place. They knew it would be a poison pill, they knew it would kill the negotiations and they knew it would bring us to exactly the place we are in right now. But I do not want anyone to be under any illusions that we're like being dragged into it or whatever. Ken also has an interesting part in this report where he says this is something the Israelis have been planning for years now. And under the Biden administration they tried to get the green light. Biden said no because he was concerned about what the fallout would be. And maybe he actually knew that there were 19 million or someone around who knew that there were 90 million people in Iran. You kind of got to think about how this is all going to work out. He at least had enough concerns to hold the Israelis off from launching these attacks. Trump I think held them off for a while and then got to a place where he was like, okay, go ahead, do it.
- [14:46]
Sagar Enjeti
Look, I'm just saying.
- [14:47]
Krystal Ball
And then decides he wants to get all the way in because it looks cool and badass.
- [14:50]
Sagar Enjeti
There's only two options. He either got suckered in or he approved it. At a level of conscious thinking, both are terrible. Actually, I would say suckered in is probably worse just because that says a lot about his own judgment. Let's put a 3 please up on the screen. I just wanna continue to point everybody in the precipice of direction of where we are. You know, Keir Starmer, the Prime Minister of the UK put his own cabinet on alert for a potential US attack on Iran. It is very likely that we would alert our NATO or at least some very, very close five eyes allies about this. There's been some speculation that it would require the United States to take off from a British military base for the B2 to actually succeed in some sort of attack on the Fordo facility if we wanted to launch via the Indian Ocean. So it's very possible there as well. Remember, the UK also assisted in shoot down missiles in April against Iran. And it's obviously somebody who has been supporting the United States. And by the way, Keir Starmer also just met with Donald Trump a few days ago in Canada at the G7. Another major indication. Let's put a 4 please on the screen. US diplomats have been authorized to leave the US embassy in Israel and are now being flown out of the country by US military. So that's a very troubling sign in terms of where things are basically in a total evacuation at a military level here of the actual, the non essential diplomatic corps inside of Israel. You also see the Beginning and the resumption of some flights for US citizens who are inside of Israel via United States planes and others. So they are preparing at the very least for a full blown military campaign. That is not even to mention the multiple military assets on the way. I mean I don't think people understand that we have three carrier strike groups on the way to the Middle East. That's crazy. Like that is a level of military force that you would expect for an invasion of Iran just in terms of all of what we had around there. Cause that is just the full force of all of these guided, you know, the missile destroyers and others and the platform, the aircraft refueling tankers as well as the naval base in Bahrain. There's been some stuff going on at the air base in Qatar. I mean there is just this is stuff we have not seen in the region since Iraq, like this level of military equipment and sheer presence in the Middle East. I would also tell you it costs about quarter billion, a quarter million dollars per month to sustain a single carrier strike group just over the. So let's factor that into the bill. And also there is the, you know, the case also of these had jobs elsewhere. One of them is literally brought from the Indo Pacific. So okay, you know, glad nothing important is going on over there in terms of this region. So the cost benefit on this is huge. And even just the sheer cost of actually sustaining the deployment and also the things that it is pulling away from.
- [17:42]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. So I want to emphasize something because I think it's really important. The question if you watch cable news or if you listen to President Trump is well, do you want Iran to have a nuclear weapon or not? And there's been this assumption that's just been accepted that they were sprinting towards a weapon, that they were, you know, they were weeks away or months away or only a year away from having nuclear weapons. There is simply no public evidence that exists that indicates that's the case. Our own intelligence community said no. It is our assessment that they are not pursuing a nuclear weapon. And if they were to begin that it would take three years before they even were to achieve that. But we see no sign that they are. Now we have the IAEA Director General coming out and saying the same. We don't have proof of any sort of systematic effort by Iran to pursue a nuclear weapon. This was on cnn. Take a listen.
- [18:35]
Sagar Enjeti
I go again to the beginning of my comment. These things we don't know because if there was some activity which was clandestine or hidden or away from our inspectors, we couldn't Know what we informed and what we reported was that we did not have as in coincidence with some of the sources you mentioned there, that we did not have any proof of a systematic effort to move into a nuclear weapon.
- [19:10]
Krystal Ball
So let's be really clear what we're talking about here. They're using nuclear weapon development as a pretext. That is not what this is about. This is about regime collapse. The Israelis have been pretty upfront about it. All the cheerleaders are, you know, cheering on regime change in Iran. You could put this A5 up on the screen. You actually had a satellite that was hacked in Iran for their state run television. And what they played was this anti regime messaging videos calling for people to rise up and you know, for freedom and revolution against the regime. I mean, kind of gives up the game that this is the ultimate goal, which again they're not really making particularly hard to figure out based on the military targets that we've already seen. If it's all just about the nuclear program, why are you striking all these, why are you hitting all these targets in Tehran? Okay, number one and number two, they out and out say it. I mean Bibi talked about it. It'd be great if that was the result. It was ultimately a regime collapse. That's what we're contemplating here. Don't be distracted by this question. Oh, they're racing towards a nuclear weapon. There is no evidence that's the case. The reason this is happening now is because Bibi was able to convince Trump to go along with it. And they're using the nuclear weapons as a pretext to try to effectuate regime collapse. That's where we are.
- [20:29]
Sagar Enjeti
Yes, and look, on the IAEA front there is actually, it's really worth going into this because this will be the pretext under which all of this is launched. Let's remember this. Right now there is actual, there are two principal or three principal actors who are involved in the conflict. Israel, the United States and Iran. Two of them are IAEA compliant and or members. One of them is not. It's called Israel. Okay, okay. Just so we're all aware, which is in direct violation of the Non Proliferation Treaty is an undeclared nuclear power with hundreds of nuclear warheads under its command and control, independent of the United States of America. So are we really going to allow a non compliant npt, an IAEA member, to attack another for not being in compliance with the iaea? It's preposterous. It makes absolutely zero sense. And look, I mean this is a case that the Vice President J.D. vance made on Twitter, he's citing the IAEA. He's talking about non compliance about civilian, civilian enrichment. Iran, as a member of the iaea, has the actual right, because of its acquiescence to those to at least have some level of enrichment. Now we can quibble about the high, what is it, highly enriched uranium, et cetera, for civilian purposes. Nuclear medicine and nuclear power. This is really getting in the weeds. But the bottom line is clear. Iaea, of which at least has some limited visibility into the program, says it's not happening. The United States Intelligence Community Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, as of three months ago, that they are not close to a nuclear weapon. I also point everybody to the original announcement because these things should live in history and words matter. Benjamin Netanyahu, even in his bullshit intelligence world, said they could be a few months to a few years. He does not even offer that they are days away from a nuclear weapon. Which begs the question, why couldn't we allow just the next day, 24 hours later, to allow Iranian diplomats to meet with United States diplomats? I know that none of this will ultimately matter at the White House level, but for the histor record, like I want people to know, on Iraq, the Bush administration made its case. Now, its case was bullshit, but they went to great lengths to manufacture the intelligence. Remember Curveball? Niger yellow cake, the National Intelligence Estimate where Dick Cheney was driving over to the CIA and basically forcing them to make their own conclusion. But they had a document, right? Yeah, they had a document. Colin Powell. It's bs, but they had Colin Powell present his case to the world. They had this fake intelligence that they presented to the United States Congress. And look, you have to give them credit. One of the reasons, again, they survive is because the entire Democratic and Republican establishment bought into the lie of the Iraqi nuclear program. Here. They don't even, you know, they don't even try. They're just like, trust us, right?
- [23:15]
Krystal Ball
Yeah.
- [23:15]
Sagar Enjeti
Trump literally said, I don't care what she said. That's extraordinary.
- [23:18]
Krystal Ball
About Tulsi Gabbard. About Tulsi Gabbard, Director of National Intelligence.
- [23:21]
Sagar Enjeti
I mean, here again, you know, Bush held up his. I'm forgetting, the guy's name is George something. The CIA director at the time, George Tenet. That's his name. And he's dragging his ass out before Congress and before the media and Condoleezza Ris. I mean, they had all of this fake intel again, but at the time it seemed real to a lot of people. And that was part of the legitimacy of this. In this case, it's just trust Donald Trump, trust the word Benjamin Netanyahu. And when you look at the entire public record, it is complete bullshit. And that is the part where you put together the Israeli action here. You put together the very basis of this attack. Oh, we have to stop Iran from getting a nuclear weapon. This is honestly worse than Iraq. I really believe that.
- [24:04]
Krystal Ball
Well, cause here's the other is, and they know this. This is part of the calculus. The actions that have been taken create a logic that makes it much more likely that they do race towards a bomb. The reason these attacks launched when they did is not because the diplomacy wasn't working. It's because the diplomacy was working because it did have a chance at succeeding. And there's no way that the hawks could allow that because they want this, this war. So that's why we are where we are.
- [24:37]
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- [25:37]
Tom Yamas
And here we have a specimen from.
- [25:39]
Sagar Enjeti
The early 2000s, a legacy investing platform.
- [25:43]
Tom Yamas
Please don't touch the exhibit folks.
- [25:45]
Sagar Enjeti
It could crash.
- [25:46]
Tom Yamas
Ready to step out of the financial history museum? At public.com you can invest in almost everything. Stocks, bonds, options and more. You could even put your cash to work at an industry leading 4.1% APY. Leave your clunky, outdated platform behind. Go to public.com and fund your account in five minutes or less. Paid for by Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC. Full disclosures at public.com disclosures this is.
- [26:08]
Jenny Garth
Jenny Garth from I Do Part Two. Can't afford Ozempic. Try Wegovy from Future Health. Just $199 and FDA approved for weight loss. No insurance or tricky syringes needed, just results. Visit futurehealth.com that's future without the E and start losing weight this week. Future Health weight loss data based on independent studies sponsored by Future Health. Future Health is not a health care services provider. Meds are prescribed at providers discretion.
- [26:38]
Krystal Ball
I think that we have that's a good transition actually. To talk about Tulsi Gabbard and whatever's going on inside the White House with her, let's go ahead and put a seven up on the screen. We've got some reporting from supposedly inside of the administration here from Politico inside the clashes between Trump and Gabbard. Let me read the first portion. They say is President Trump privately molded joining Israel's campaign against Iran this month? One member of his cabinet sent what he viewed as an audacious attempt to steer him in the opposite direction. At 5:30am on June 10, DNI Tulsi Abbord tweeted a cryptic three minute video warning that political elite and warmongers are carelessly fomenting fear and tensions between nuclear powers and the world is on the brink of nuclear annihilation. Trump saw the unauthorized video and became incensed, complaining to associates of the White House. She had spoken out of turn, according to three people familiar, two of them inside the administration. All granted anonymity to describe describe sensitive dynamics. So Emily and I actually were trying to get to covering this video she put out because it was kind of like, what is going on here? It was kind of out of left field and she had just visited Hiroshima and she opens a video with that and then she goes on to talk about the potential disaster of nuclear conflict. I think the assumption was that she was probably talking about Ukraine and Russia and maybe she was talking about Ukraine and Russia. It's still not entirely clear. But the Trump administration effectively after this video came out that he took as being a shot at him for contemplating getting involved in a war with Iran, they kind of iced her out. She was not involved in the big Camp David discussions and apparently she's not being included in many of the most significant meetings at this point. So just to give you a flavor of what this was, let's play a portion of this video that she had released.
- [28:21]
Tulsi Gabbard
I recently visited Hiroshima in Japan and stood at the epicenter of a city that remains scarred by the unimaginable horror caused by a single nuclear bomb dropped in 1945, 80 years ago. It's hard for me to find the words to express what I saw. The stories that I heard, the haunting sadness that still remains the same. This is an experience that will stay with me forever. This attack obliterated the city, killed over 300,000 people, many dying instantly, while others died from severe burns, injuries, radiation sickness and cancer that set in in the following months and years. Nagasaki suffered the same fate. Homes, schools, families, all gone in a flash. The survivors, the Hibokusha, they carried the pain of extreme burns, radiation sickness and loss for decades. Yet this one bomb that caused so much destruction on Hiroshima was tiny compared to today's nuclear bombs. The bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima had a yield of just 15 kilotons of TNT. Whereas today's nuclear warheads range in size from 100 kilotons to over 1 megaton. A single nuclear weapon today could kill millions in just minutes. Just one of these nuclear bombs would vaporize everything at its core, people, buildings, life itself. This isn't some made up science fiction story. This is the reality of what's at stake, what we are facing now. Because as we stand here today, today closer to the brink of nuclear annihilation than ever before, political elite and warmongers are carelessly fomenting fear and tensions between nuclear powers. Perhaps it's because they are confident that they will have access to nuclear shelters for themselves and for their families that regular people won't have access to.
- [30:30]
Krystal Ball
So, Sagar, what did you make of that video at the time? And what are you reading into what's going on?
- [30:35]
Sagar Enjeti
I was fully in Newborn world when that came out. In the retrospect. Look, I don't know. Yeah, maybe she was talking about Rush. Here's the other thing. You know, for people who are not familiar with Tulsi, I mean, we've interviewed her multiple times. Tulsi always talked about the reason why she wanted to run for president was because of that false missile alert about an incoming ballistic missile from North Korea, Hawaii, and how impactful that was to her and to her constituents. So, look, I'll take her at her word. I mean, she definitely changed a lot of her positions. But you do have to say, like, one of the main reasons she's ever in politics was because of her experience in Iraq and in Afghanistan, or I think just in Iraq. Iraq.
- [31:11]
Krystal Ball
As a combat medic.
- [31:11]
Sagar Enjeti
As a combat medic. And seeing the cost of war, that's something that she talked about over and over again. And, you know, I want to take her at her word for that. So I assume that's part of the reason that she put out that video. I wish I'd gotten to go to Hiroshima and you know, look, you can even think that it was a justified decision to drop the atomic bomb. But one of the reasons why I think it's always important to remember is exactly what she said about the yield on that weapon. By the way, I've been looking at the yield on what this bomb would be the Fordo facility, the massive Massive Ordnance Penetrator. It's roughly half the size of what was dropped on Hiroshima. I think it's a six kiloton. It's a little different. Okay. It's not for civilian purposes and it's targeted to go down, but you're going to have to drop it over and over again. Just the sheer size of what that explosion is like and the power of destruction and this is a conventional non nuclear device. That's what's part of so insane about it. But really what I come back to is that it is clear now, guys, let's go and put 8, 9 on the screen. Is that Tulsi is really being iced out by a lot of senior members of the Trump administration. Her Senate intelligence briefing was postponed yesterday amid these Iran tensions. She was not included at all in that Camp David meeting where apparently that Camp David meeting was about the Israeli imminent strike on Iran. Tucker called that out on Steve Bannon's show and he's like, you know why that she wasn't there? She's like, cause it's a regime change operation. And apparently John Ratcliffe, the CIA director is somebody who's much more comfortable with that. And this is how it all works, guys. Is that now because she works for Trump, she has to keep her mouth shut. The White House, by the way, just yesterday put out a bullshit video actually editing her testimony showing cheap fake. It was a cheap fake.
- [32:52]
Krystal Ball
It was actually a cheap fake.
- [32:53]
Sagar Enjeti
It was a cheap fake where they cheap faked it to make it look like she was warning Iran was close to a nuclear weapon. It's completely not true. Look, the historical record lives forever. Sorry, it's 2025. We can go and watch it for our and say between the signed statement and her statement before Congress, it could not be more clear. I saw J.D. trying to pour. He's like, a lot has changed since March. I'm like, yeah, what? Go ahead and tell us. Tell us again.
- [33:17]
Krystal Ball
With Iraq, they told us to specify what's changed. Just a lot has changed.
- [33:22]
Sagar Enjeti
Okay, yeah, with Iraq, they did lie to us, but they tried to tell Us, they said this. Oh, yellow cake uranium. This is the progress. This is the estimated amount of chemical and biological stuff. Tell me now. Let my congressman vote yes or no, and I will call his ass before he does. Okay, all of us should be able to call our congressman and all that and actually hold them accountable for their vote in the future. And by the way, that's why they're not doing it before Congress. Cause they would actually have to tell the world and the United States. Again, there's no Colin Powell. Who's our. I don't even know, our UN ambassador right now. Is it Elise Stefanik?
- [33:57]
Krystal Ball
Because remember, they decided not to with her.
- [34:00]
Sagar Enjeti
I can't remember whatever either Somebody can correct me about who it is. I don't know even waltz. There you go, waltz. All right. So, all right, Mr. Waltz, I think you're a liar and all this, but fine, you know, go convene a meeting of the United States UN Security Council. Lay out the evidence. Adlai Stevenson before the Cuban Missile Crisis. Remember, he had the slides and he called out the Russian ambassador in front of his face. He said, Look, Mr. Ambassador, are these nuclear warheads or not? You know, this is real life. And they want to launch a war on this pretext. So, I mean, people can tell I'm going crazy. But this is like genuinely, the Iraq invasion was more justified than this one. And what they're also trying to downplay, this is like in Jurassic park when they realize the velociraptors are smart, is that they're like. The smart ones are like, no, no, no, it's not about regime change. It's just. It's just the tip. It's just taking out the Fordo facilities. Yeah, but what happens after that?
- [34:54]
Krystal Ball
Right?
- [34:54]
Sagar Enjeti
You know, it's like. And then what happens after this?
- [34:56]
Krystal Ball
Well, and that's what we want to have Zorab on because he's laid out in great detail how this could all unfold. Because, yeah, that's the cope. Now that you're hearing from people, it's like, oh, it's not gonna be. It's gonna be fine. It's not gonna be any big deal.
- [35:08]
Sagar Enjeti
Just a limited.
- [35:09]
Krystal Ball
We'll drop some bombs on four do. We'll get in and out. No big deal. You guys are all just worrying. I hope you're right. I hope it ends up being no big deal. I really hope that that's the case. I would love to be wrong. But if you aren't taking this seriously of what could unfold here, I don't know what planet you're living in. I don't know what history you've studied, I don't know what events you've lived through. Because every time we've engaged either in the full regime change and occupation model with Iraq, or in the Syria model or the Libya model, like, take your pick. Tell me which one worked out well.
- [35:43]
Sagar Enjeti
Zero.
- [35:44]
Krystal Ball
Tell me which has been good for the US which has been good for the region, which has been good for the world, which has been good for humanity. Tell me which one. Because everyone has been a total and complete horrific, monster, monstrous disaster. And that is where we are right now today. With so many people once again going through the same exercises, accepting even thinner propaganda as reality, it's truly mind blowing. And Tulsi did come out and sort of COVID for Trump. So, yeah, we're in line in terms of the intelligence. He's right about everything he's saying. And if we could jump back up to a 1B, cuz we have a new. He came to me tears in his eyes that just dropped. I mean, this is. The other piece is like, even as you have Tucker and Bannon and Marjorie Taylor Greene who are sounding the alarm, Bannon just told the Financial Times, listen, ultimately, whatever Trump does, we're gonna be good with it and Mag is gonna be good with it. And he's right. That's why Trump also doesn't care what they have to say, because he knows at the end of the day, they're gonna come up with whatever justifications they need to. They're gonna go along, they're gonna say he must have intelligence that we don't have access to. So we just have to trust him already. You've got Charlie Kirk saying, thank God we've got Trump. This is, we have to trust Trump. Trump is made for this moment. So let's go ahead and take a listen to a 1B Trump saying that Tucker called him to apologize for his comments going, quote, unquote, too far. Let's take a listen. Have you seen the Tucker Carlson Senator Ted Cruz interview? It seems like this issue on whether or not the United States should strike is kind of dividing a lot of your supporters.
- [37:25]
Donald Trump
No, my supporters are for me. My supporters are America first. They make America great again. My supporters don't want to see Iran have a nuclear weapon. Tucker's a nice guy. He called and apologized the other day because he thought he said things that were a little bit too strong, and I appreciated that. And Ted Cruz is a nice guy. I mean, he's been with me for a long Time, I'd say once the race was over. He's been with me ever since. Right. But very simple. If they think that it's okay for Iran to have a nuclear weapon, then they should oppose me. But nobody thinks it's okay. People that don't want, I don't want to fight either. I'm not looking to fight. But if it's a choice between fighting and them having a nuclear weapon, you have to do what you have to do.
- [38:12]
Krystal Ball
So as we've covered here, Tucker went out of his way to not directly criticize Trump. I think the most aggressive thing he said was that Trump is complicit. He's. He said, and he didn't even say in a newsletter. Right. And so when Trump came out and called Tucker cookie and went after him a couple times in a single day, that was a message to them all like, you better get in line. And so now you've got Bannon saying, oh, we're going to be with him no matter what. You've got Charlie Kirk saying the things he's saying. Marjorie Taylor Greene, where is she on that War Powers Resolution? She hasn't signed on. There is one Republican who has signed on to the War Powers Resolution, and that is Thomas Massie, who is already at, oh, odds with maga. So that's where you are. I mean, Trump put that out, basically was like, okay, it's time to bend the knee. And there's also reporting that calls were made from the White House directly to Charlie Kirk to say, you need to temper down the criticism of this. And he fell in line.
- [39:00]
Sagar Enjeti
And look, they're all going to fall in line. I mean, actually, Tucker, I'm not so sure, given we'll talk a little bit now about this interview. But yeah, it's complete bullshit, by the way, this whole Apollo or whatever. But part of the reason that Trump does it is basically to assert his own dominance over maga. And I'll save some of this for polling and all of that as to where things will go, but things are grim. Things are very grim. It's not good. We have basically a full fledged lie being perpetrated from the top of the US And Israeli government. And all of it points in the single direction of military operation and regime change. I was also thinking about, even if they do get to that whole, to that point of a deal, I mean, they're gonna hold up their hands and say, oh, we've saved the world, we've saved us from the brink of war, but it's not true. They created this horrific crisis. There's been real costs, but there's almost no way that the actual end of this would be today given what has now happened. Oh yeah, there will be a resolution at one point. It will either be regime change in Iran, it will be an Israeli attack, it be a US attack or something like that of some kind. But like what we have now unleashed, we will be living with now for years and years to come. The only question is a gradation and how bad they can continue to be.
- [40:22]
Ryan Seacrest
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- [41:23]
Tom Yamas
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- [41:54]
Jenny Garth
Jenny Garth from I Do Part Two. Can't afford Ozempic? Try WeGovy from Future Health. Just $199 and FDA approved for weight loss. No insurance or tricky syringes needed, just results. Visit futurehealth.com that's future without the E and start losing weight this week. Future Health Weight loss data based on independent studies sponsored by Future Health, Future Health is not a healthcare services provider. Meds are prescribed at providers discretion.
- [42:24]
Sagar Enjeti
Let's get to the next part here. And this is about some of the stuff going on inside of Israel. And look, a lot of this is very counter narrative and it's definitely counter to a lot of what you're going to hear on national text television. Let's start with the first one because this is very important to me. Let's put it up there on the screen. Israel is now running low on defensive interceptors. So this is according to U.S. officials, quote, raising concerns about the country's ability to counter long range ballistic missiles. Now this actually fits with something we're about to show you which were some strikes by the Iranians on downtown Tel Aviv or sorry, in populated areas of Israel in the middle of the day. Now why does this matter? And actually put this out on Twitter, Crystal, you know, there's been a lot made on cable news about the, you know, stupendous Israeli operation against the Iranians and the incompetence of the Iranian military. You can't deny that when you have guys in a single bunker and your whole command and control structure is getting taken out. Yeah, that's pretty embarrassing. Not even embarrassing, it's just basic incompetence at that level. Their ability to basically be penetrated by Mossad at all, all of that. Humiliating. But what does it say about Israel that they launch an operation and less than a week later they are already running out of interceptors. And so what does that say? Well, it says that, you know, who does have some interceptors? Oh, me actually, me and the rest of you, our fellow U.S. citizens. So the plan was basically we can't handle this on our own. They knew it from day one.
- [43:46]
Krystal Ball
Absolutely.
- [43:47]
Sagar Enjeti
Remember, they're running low on interceptors and according to them they've taken out two thirds of ballistic missile launchers. So what if they didn't take that? They would have run out three days ago. And so you're actually already seeing panic inside of Israel because they know they can look at the math and say, hey, this is not good. And already we're watching ballistic missiles hitting various different targets. So with all that said, guys, can we put some of this up here on the screen and just show people, you know, this is some of the latest that's coming out of Israel. I mean these are crazy ass images. These are in the middle of the day and this is a major hospital, it's called the Soroka Hospital, which according to the Israelis, it's in southern Israel. Direct hit by Iranian missiles. Apparently, it services over a million people. We don't yet have some of the casualty figures and all that that has come out. But, I mean, look at this. In the middle of a city, you have a ballistic missile that's come down in the middle and is basically leveling this entire thing. These are crazy images, and these are in the middle of the day, not even launched at night. It just goes to show that the more that Iran, even with its very limited capacity, is able to fire, they are beginning to get through. The Israelis claim they still got about one third of them left. They're trying to take them out because they have air superiority there. But look, you know, the Iranians, they may be dumb, but they're not that dumb. One of the things that the Iranians and the North Koreans have done is they have these mobile launchers, which they just drive all around constantly and have camouflage and all that, specifically to maintain, you know, strike ability, even if they do lose their air defense. So this is very, very devastating inside of Israel.
- [45:19]
Krystal Ball
You know, suddenly, Sagar, seem. People seem to care again about hospitals being used as military targets. Suddenly, now that. Now that Israel had a hospital hit, which I condemn, I don't support that at all. I don't think hospitals are legitimate targets. But suddenly people are concerned about that again. So, you know, wish that would get applied across the board. And here's the thing, Israelis. This is the world you authored. Congratulations. This is the world you authored, where any civilian target is totally legitimate, where there are no rules, no norms, nothing that's out of bounds. That is the world that you created. So, I mean, it's horrific, but that's where we are. So save me until I see a single one of you condemn the multiple attacks on the entire medical system in Gaza. Gaza. I'm sorry. I don't want to hear it.
- [46:11]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, I mean, look, I completely agree, and I'll just say falls a little bit on deaf ears when I hear about civilian casualties and targeting civilian facilities like hospitals.
- [46:22]
Krystal Ball
Look how many civilians they've killed in Iran.
- [46:24]
Sagar Enjeti
Is there even a hospital. Is there even a hospital standing left in Gaza? Whatever. Somebody can go and can check.
- [46:30]
Krystal Ball
None that are undamaged for me.
- [46:32]
Sagar Enjeti
What I do know is that they're, of course, though, using this. This is a propaganda campaign. The Israeli foreign minister came out today and said that they're gonna begin ramping up even more targets on Iranian facilities in retaliation for this attack on the hospital. And you do see some of that going on. But at the very least, I Mean, the fact that they can't keep one of their largest hospitals safe from an Iranian ballistic missile is crazy. That is just not what was offered up. And keep in mind that a lot of what we're able to show you is very limited because of some censorship. Censorship. Now, let's also get though, you know, to some of the other things that are going on inside of Israel. And this is always, you know, very whitewashed by the United States and the Western press. But let's put B4, please, up on the screen. The Israeli economy is really suffering right now and also a lot of foreigners who are inside of the country are doing their absolute best to get out. So here, Birthright Israel. Apparently the trip has collapsed as some 2,800 participants were boarding cruise ships from Israel to Cyprus and in some cases under the protection of the Israeli Navy, basically trying to get the hell out of there. Keep in mind, remember that there's been a lot of shutdown of civilian aviation inside of the country. And you know, looking at stuff like this, like let's put B5 as well up on the screen just to show you what's being broadcast. You can see here a huge banner for those who are listening is just Mr. President finished the job. A massive banner across one of, I think it's a train station which has Donald Trump's face. And a major appeal here to Americans.
- [48:07]
Krystal Ball
But also to him in particular.
- [48:09]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, to Trump in particular. Let's keep this in mind as well. You know, Israeli society and life right now is pretty crazy. I mean, let's think about this. You know, basically every single night and sometimes during the day, their phones are going off about ballistic incoming missiles. They're basically living in bomb shelters and coming up and out, you know, very society is completely and totally disrupted. Just imagine, you can't run an economy like that or run a society only for a very, very short period of time. It also has revealed some pretty, you know, some social schisms. Is that a polite way of saying it about some of the things that are going on? Let's go and put this up there on the screen, for example, B2, please. And just to show everybody some of the video you saw, some videos that were coming out of Israel actually of settlers and others who are locking out other settlers of shelters here. She says, we're going soon. There was going to be a siren. We went to the next door house to a bomb shelter. We were not allowed in. They had closed the doors and closed the parking lot. We were knocking on the door. They came out and said, we don't have to let you in. We have no space. So really like dystopian scene. Right.
- [49:17]
Krystal Ball
And I believe that woman is actually a Ukrainian. Yes, A refugee.
- [49:21]
Sagar Enjeti
Refugee, yeah.
- [49:21]
Krystal Ball
Who is locked down because she's not Jewish. And the Palestinian, the Palestinians who live inside of Israel and are citizens of Israel. I mean, first of all, there's just vastly less infrastructure in predominantly Palestinian areas. Vastly fewer bomb shelters. And then you can put V3 up on the screen. Just so you know, this isn't just like a couple tiktoks. There's reporting about the way that there is a, you know, systematic discrimination. It's an apartheid society. There are some, some 65 laws on the books that discriminate explicitly against. I'm not even talking about the west bank of Gaza. I'm talking about the Palestinian citizens of Israel. There are 65 laws on the books that discriminate explicitly against them. And then you have the endemic social discrimination of not for you. Israeli shelters exclude Palestinians as bombs rain down. So, yeah, the ugly underbelly of Israeli society really being exposed in this moment of cold crisis.
- [50:14]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, look, you could see it very clearly for yourself. And actually there have been some Palestinians who have been, you know, who have been targeted in Israel and apparently they didn't have as many bomb shelters. Finally, let's put B6 up on the screen. This is another very important point. This is only what we're able to show you. Keep in mind with all these Western journalists who are inside of Israel, they're going to get their asses kicked out if they report too much. So the IDF has officially updated its restrictions on reporting on any missile drone images. Quote, any person who prints or publishes printed matter or a publication regarding the location of a strike hit by the enemy or war material will be submit to the military sensor for approval. So military sensors are running everything that we are seeing out of the country. The only reason we know about this hospital is because they want to publicize it as being hit. We have no idea. Some of the other stuff that's actually been hit inside of the country have to rely on some open source source reporting. And already that policy has been put into effect. Put B7, please, up on the screen. Israel has detained a photographer for Al Jazeera after police say that he revealed the exact location of one of Iranian missile strikes. Remember what they did to my friend Trey Yingst, who had the temerity to do his job and show that the Israeli Pentagon, which was located in the middle of downtown Tel Aviv, was hit by an Iranian missile, and they freaked out at him on camera. And then multiple members of the Israeli police or the IDF and others started targeting him, saying that he was doing the enemy's battle damage assessment for him. So just keep that in mind.
- [51:45]
Krystal Ball
Look in his message in terms of.
- [51:46]
Sagar Enjeti
What the stuff that we are looking.
- [51:47]
Krystal Ball
Go look at the replies to when he posts stuff on Twitter, and you'll see the reaction to him daring to be a journalist.
- [51:52]
Sagar Enjeti
Right, yeah, they hate him. They hate his guts. So that's what's going on inside of the country. It's chaos. It's absolute chaos. And, you know, they're projecting and a vision of we're winning the war and all of this, but this is always. What I say is, look, it's only been less than a week. What if this goes on for a month? What if this goes on four months? Well, it's not going to because Big daddy, the United States is probably going to come and solve all of this for you. But this really, in my opinion, shatters the image of this country which can stand alone. It's like nothing could be further from the truth. The fact that you can't even go a week without running out of Interceptors, even after you pulled off these spectacular sabotage operations inside of Iran. This is not. Look, I'm not Gonna downplay the IDF's combat strength and all that on the ground, but there's a level of technological sophistication and of independence of the country which is being sold right now to the American public, which is very unfortunate, and it just could not be further from the truth. Well, and that also can't last a week. Right.
- [52:58]
Krystal Ball
And that also exposes the fact that at any time, any American president, whether it is Joe Biden or Donald Trump, can come in and say, we're done here. You're done with the genocide. You're not starting a war with Iran because they are dependent on us. We shipped, what, like, hundreds of hellfire missiles in advance of this attack? Yes. Don't play dumb. We wanted this. We are involved in this. This is our world. They cannot do anything without our support. And if we decided we were going to pull that support, it would end. It would be over. So, you know, there's often an attempt to be like, oh, well, they're a sovereign nation and that we can't just tell them what. Yes, you can. No, you actually can. Because without us, they're out of interceptor missiles in a week, apparently. And I mean, of course they are, because they picked a fight with every neighbor around them. Practically.
- [53:47]
Sagar Enjeti
You know, actually these are just Iranians. That's the fun. The thing is about the high level interceptors. Ain't no Hamas got things that you need to use for your intercept. That's Iron Dome. That's like pedestrian stuff. This is. Look, this is the thing. Whenever you have a relatively sophisticated military, yes, even one that is pretty embarrassing, like Iran, you still have some military capacity. And it shows you. It actually does show you how incredible the United States and British and NATO armed forces are and the level of capacity that they have, have. But Israel is always held up. It's like somehow equivalent to that. It literally could not be further from the truth. So keep it in mind. An American president literally can end this at any time. This is just like Ukraine. This is just like any of these other literal client states. I mean they owe their entire existence to us. And it's pretty shocking both the censorship and the level of capacity that they have. After just less than a week of war. I can't get over it.
- [54:44]
Krystal Ball
I think that that parallel with Ukraine is an important one to draw out because in the same way that the right in particular understands correctly. So Ukraine as a proxy war, U.S. versus Russia. This is a proxy war right now. Israel versus Iran. And it's even more direct just given our overwhelming yearly budget of supporting Israel over many decades. And so, you know, even if we're not yet directly involved in offensive capacity, make no mistake about it, this is our war. We are right now engaged in a proxy war versus Iran. And the only question is whether or not we sort of, you know, fully engage offensively and don't just do it through our proxy client state.
- [55:40]
Tom Yamas
You know what's great about your investment account with the big guys, it's actually a time machine. Log in and Zoom of 1999. It's time for an upgrade. At public.com you can invest in almost everything. Stocks, bonds, options and more. You can even put your cash to work at an industry leading 4.1% APY. Leave your clunky outdated platform behind. @Public.com Go to Public.com and fund your account in five minutes or less. Pay for by Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC. Full disclosures at public.com disclosures this is.
- [56:11]
Jenny Garth
Jenny Garth from I Do Part Two. Can't afford Ozempic? Try WeGovy from FutureHealth. Just $199 FDA approved for weight loss. No insurance or tricky syringes needed, just results. Visit futurehealth.com that's future without the E. And start losing weight this week. Future Health weight loss data based on independent studies sponsored by Future Health. Future Health is not a healthcare services provider. Meds are prescribed at providers discretion.
- [56:40]
Sagar Enjeti
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- [57:09]
Jenny Garth
This is an iHeart podcast.