6/24/25: Rogan Speaks Out On Trump ICE Raids, Tucker Unloads On Ted Cruz Over Iran, Jeff Sachs On Israel Violating Iran Ceasefire

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar – Episode Released June 24, 2025

Host: Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti
Publisher: iHeartPodcasts
Title: Rogan Speaks Out On Trump ICE Raids, Tucker Unloads On Ted Cruz Over Iran, Jeff Sachs On Israel Violating Iran Ceasefire

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1. Supreme Court Ruling on Trump’s Immigration Policies

Timestamp: [02:10]

Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti delve into a pivotal Supreme Court decision that impacts the Trump administration's ability to deport convicted criminals to third countries without prior connections. The court's brief, unsigned order reverses a federal judge's ruling, effectively permitting expedited deportations, including to nations like South Sudan.

Notable Quotes:

• Saagar Enjeti: "The Supreme Court has now made it easier for the Trump administration to deport convicted criminals to... third countries to which they have no previous connection."
• Krystal Ball: "It was a win for the Trump administration at an executive level."

Discussion Points:

• The ruling lacks a detailed rationale, leaving due process concerns unresolved.
• The potential humanitarian crisis stemming from deportations to unstable regions.
• Partisan splits in the court's decision-making process.
• The debate over mass deportations versus targeted efforts.

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2. Reactions from Joe Rogan and Andrew Schulz on Trump’s ICE Raids

Timestamp: [05:01 – 18:45]

The hosts highlight unexpected critiques from previously Trump-supportive figures like Joe Rogan and Andrew Schulz regarding the administration's aggressive immigration enforcement tactics.

Notable Quotes:

• Joe Rogan: "ICE raids are fucking nuts, man."
• Andrew Schulz: "There has to be a better way than simply just, hey, you go."
• Krystal Ball: "A large part of it here was about labor and cheap labor specifically."

Discussion Points:

• Rogan expresses discomfort with the broad application of ICE raids, emphasizing the impact on non-criminal immigrants.
• Schulz advocates for more compassionate immigration reform, highlighting the human stories behind the policies.
• The divergence between campaign promises of targeted deportations and the reality of widespread enforcement.
• Polling data indicating public opposition to deporting non-criminal immigrants, contrasting with Trump's strong stance.

---

3. Interview Segment with Emily Jasinski and Tucker Carlson

Timestamp: [22:38 – 38:01]

Emily Jasinski hosts her new show "Afterparty with Emily Jasinski," featuring an interview with Tucker Carlson. The discussion centers around Tucker's critique of political figures like Ted Cruz and Mark Levin, and the dynamics within the MAGA coalition following recent geopolitical events.

Notable Quotes:

• Tucker Carlson: "Mark Levin is a repulsive ghoul whose entire sex life consists of watching other people get blown up."
• Tucker Carlson: "MAGA is over."
• Krystal Ball: "Trump was made America First. I guarantee you."

Discussion Points:

• Carlson's vehement criticism of Ted Cruz and Mark Levin for their roles in policy decisions.
• The perceived schism within the MAGA movement as factions disagree on interventionist versus isolationist policies.
• Polling insights showing unwavering support for Trump despite controversial actions.
• The influence of elite factions and their impact on policy-making within the administration.

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4. Expert Insight: Professor Jeffrey Sachs on Israel-Iran Ceasefire

Timestamp: [40:10 – 56:53]

Professor Jeffrey Sachs from Columbia University provides an in-depth analysis of the recent ceasefire between Israel and Iran, attributing the conflict's escalation to decades-long strategies spearheaded by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Notable Quotes:

• Jeffrey Sachs: "Netanyahu has been absolutely itching for a big war with Iran, trying to drag the US in."
• Jeffrey Sachs: "Israel needs to rethink fundamentally this Bibi strategy, which goes back to 1996... He's the biggest warmonger on the planet."
• Jeffrey Sachs: "The only security is to rejoin the family of nations... establish a state of Palestine alongside a state of Israel."

Discussion Points:

• Netanyahu's long-term agenda to dominate the Middle East and provoke US involvement.
• The role of Mossad in executing aggressive policies, contributing to regional instability.
• The failure of recent military actions to achieve desired regime change in Iran.
• The necessity for the US to leverage its influence to foster a peaceful resolution, including the establishment of a Palestinian state.
• The international community's stance, with overwhelming support for Palestine in UN forums.
• The strategic caution exhibited by Russia and China amidst escalating tensions.

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5. Political and International Implications

Timestamp: [56:53 – End]

The conversation wraps up with reflections on the broader geopolitical landscape, emphasizing the US's role in mitigating conflict and the challenges posed by entrenched alliances and historical grievances.

Notable Quotes:

• Jeffrey Sachs: "Israel is in its worst insecurity in its history... Israel needs to rethink fundamentally."
• Saagar Enjeti: "The point is make Iran great again. They will go along with it no matter what he does."
• Krystal Ball: "Trump is absolutely on board with criminal or illegal immigration policies."

Discussion Points:

• The potential long-term consequences of Israel's military actions on its global standing and regional security.
• The shifting dynamics of US foreign policy under Trump's leadership, balancing between interventionist and isolationist impulses.
• The interplay between domestic policies, such as immigration enforcement, and international relations, particularly in the Middle East.
• The importance of coherent and consistent policy messaging to maintain public support and international credibility.

---

Conclusion

Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti's episode on June 24, 2025, offers a comprehensive analysis of pivotal events shaping US immigration policy and Middle Eastern geopolitics. Through expert interviews and critical commentary, the hosts shed light on the intricate balance between executive actions, judicial decisions, and public sentiment. The episode underscores the complexities of maintaining national security while upholding humanitarian principles, all within a highly polarized political landscape.

Key Takeaways:

• The Supreme Court's ruling significantly empowers the Trump administration's immigration enforcement capabilities, raising due process concerns.
• Influential figures like Joe Rogan and Andrew Schulz are voicing unexpected critiques of aggressive immigration policies, highlighting a potential shift in public discourse.
• Internal conflicts within the MAGA movement point to a fractured coalition struggling to reconcile disparate policy approaches.
• Professor Jeffrey Sachs emphasizes the urgent need for a strategic realignment in US-Israel relations to foster lasting peace and regional stability.

For listeners seeking a nuanced understanding of these critical issues, this episode of "Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar" provides valuable insights and thought-provoking analysis.

Transcript

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[Tucker Carlson]

I've never felt like this before.

[Emily Jasinski]

It's like, you just get me.

[Crystal Ball]

I feel like my true self with you.

[Tucker Carlson]

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[Crystal Ball]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

Hey, guys. Sagar and Crystal here.

[Crystal Ball]

Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.

[Sagar Enjeti]

This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.

[Crystal Ball]

So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad, free, and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

[Sagar Enjeti]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see [e-mail].

[Crystal Ball]

All right, let's go ahead and get to a big SCOTUS ruling that came out yesterday.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's right. This is a major Supreme Court ruling that happened in the middle of a ceasefire, so you may have missed it and you're definitely forgiven. We can go ahead and put this up there on the screen and I'LL just read a little bit from the decision. Quote, the Supreme Court has now made it easier for the Trump administration to deport convicted criminals to, quote, third countries to which they have no previous connection. In a brief unsigned order that did not explain its reasoning, the court put on hold a federal judge's ruling that said those affected Nation 9 should have a meaningful opportunity to bring claims they would be at risk if they were sent to countries the administration has made deals with to receive deported immigrants. As a result, the administration will be able to quickly remove immigrants to such third countries, including South Sudan. Affected immigrants can still attempt to bring individual claims. So what you're basically seeing there is this happened, I know, while I was gone, but there was this, what was it, a deportation to South Sudan of several, I think, individuals here illegally in the United States. Well, what has now happened is that the Supreme Court is allowing the deportation of this. However, the legal process which is done still remains up in the air. As I understand it, it allows for such deportation to take place. But there's still open questions around due process, just like with the Alien Enemies Act. But broadly, it was a win for the Trump administration at an executive level.

[Crystal Ball]

No doubt about it. And it was split along partis lines. I don't think there was much question about whether or not the administration could deport people to third countries, places they're not from. That has been a long standing practice. This is something that broadly acknowledged that the administration has this power. Whether I like it or not, the question here was all around due process. Do you have a chance to challenge that decision to send you? For example, Libya is one of the countries that they want to send people to. We've talked about Libya a lot lately because in the context of Iran, things are not going well in Libya. Reports are that they certainly in the past had effectively slave markets. And in fact, a lot of the people who were sold on those slave markets were migrants into the country. So to me and Sagar and I agreed we don't have time to fight about this today. So we'll table this for a longer discussion later. To me, you should have the ability, have enough time to say, hey, I think I'm going to be tortured and murdered and sold into a slave market if I go to this country, if I'm shipped to this country and have that go through an adjudicated process, effectively the Supreme Court here, and I think you may agree with this, like, not only did they say, no, we don't, you don't really deserve like any sort of lengthy Due process. But this is an important decision. And it really bothers me that they didn't even explain their thinking, you know, because that really.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, I think it's a procedural thing in terms of the unsigned order, because it's like something about injunctive relief.

[Crystal Ball]

They could. No, they could have. And the dissent. The dissent was written down and explained, but the actual decision here, they give no rationale for. So it continues to leave all of these questions about why they interpreted it this way and what made them come to this decision. And I think that, you know, I disagree with the decision outright, but I also think it's outrageous that they didn't even bother to explain what is, in effect, a quite consequential decision here, ultimately. We also wanted to highlight for you guys a couple of interesting comments that I'm a little bit surprised at from Joe Rogan and then some from Andrew Schultz, where obviously both of them were supportive of Trump in this past election. And Rogan expresses here some discomfort with the extent of the Trump deportation policy and the way they've gone about it, which most of the people who are being detained at this point, like the overwhelming jury, I think 90% are detained, not violent criminals who have been picked up by the Trump administration. And so he expresses in this clip some discomfort with that. Let's go ahead and take a listen to that.

[Sagar Enjeti]

ICE raids are fucking nuts, man. Watching this protest on television, it's like.

[Trey Farrow]

The raids are nuts.

[Sagar Enjeti]

The. Yeah, I think both sides are taking.

[Trey Farrow]

It a little too hard.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, I don't think if they. The Trump administration, if they're running and they said, we're going to go to Home Depot and we're gonna arrest all the people at Home Depot, we're gonna go to construction sites and we're gonna just like tackle people at construction sites. I don't think anybody was signed up for that. They said, we're gonna get rid of the criminals and the gang members first. Right. And now we're seeing like, Home Depots get raided.

[Trey Farrow]

Like, that's crazy.

[Crystal Ball]

Something about the Home Depot really struck a chord with these guys, which is kind of interesting, I guess, because it's just like so known, so suburban Joe probably maybe even has been to cause he used to live in la. The particular Home Depot that was rated, I don't know, but I have to like on the Iran war stuff. Yes. Trump said we should bomb the nuclear sites. He also said he would be the peace candidate. If you weren't paying that close of attention, I can maybe sort of give you the Benefit of the doubt.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Come on in. Thinking there was genuine ambiguity there.

[Crystal Ball]

Okay.

[Sagar Enjeti]

The guy literally came out and said, fuck Israel and Iran. Don't know what the fuck they're doing today. And then also called for and then said, no regime change today.

[Crystal Ball]

Right, but I'm just saying you can.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Read whatever you wanted.

[Crystal Ball]

Okay. You could also have looked at his first term, how hawkish he was towards Iran. But like I said, okay, I can see where you were coming from and why you may have gotten the impression that he would not be a hawk vis a vis Iran. I don't know how you could give that impression on deportations. Like, the whole campaign was mass deportation signs at the RNC that said mass deportation. Now, what about that made you think that this was going to be some targeted, we're only going after the criminals kind of approach? Because that was not at all what was sold during the election whatsoever. And so, listen, I'm glad to see him express concern, but I just think it's insane that you didn't think that was the direction that Stephen Miller was going to go and Tom Homan were gonna go in if they were put back into power.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, I mean, look, I don't disagree. I mean, the mass deportation was about as clear as it was. I think the mass deportation and the trade war, I guess it's about implementation or seeing like, there's something visceral probably about it. I mean, I don't know, because it is one of those things where, look, sometimes people believe in something, but they don't necessarily understand, like, what the overall implication of what it's gonna play out is gonna look like. I mean, it's understandable, I guess there hasn't really been a serious mass deportation effort like this in literally, what, 50 years or something like that. So, you know, to that extent, that makes sense. But, yeah, broadly, I mean, I would say in particular with like, MAGA and you know, what they were saying literally at the time, and also in terms of practice, there has not really been a single thing I would maybe seekat. I would say the rest of it has not personally surprised me. Like Home Depot seekot surprised me. No, but that's what I'm saying. But even though he said he was gonna do the Alien Enemies act, literally on the campaign trail, I think 70 days before he came to 70 days before he was elected, he's like, here's my plan to use the Alien Enemies act and to immediately expedite deportation. Again, you could sympathize because people are not paying attention, but at a Mass deportation level. They made it pretty clear. I mean, yes, they were talking about criminal and illegal, but a large part of it here was about labor and cheap lab specifically. That's been a central point of the Trump talking points on immigration now for quite some time. But I guess people sometimes maybe see what they want to see as well with a criminal comment.

[Crystal Ball]

I think that's a good point. Let's go ahead and take a listen to Andrew Schultz. Just did this long interview with the New York Times, which I listened to all of. I don't know, I haven't listened to.

[Sagar Enjeti]

The full thing yet.

[Crystal Ball]

It wasn't, I don't know, the interviewer and him were kind of like at odds the whole time.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It was, I think the interviewer really didn't get his deal. And yeah, anyway, yeah, whatever. I read the transcript. I didn't listen to it.

[Crystal Ball]

I did listen to it and you didn't get a lot out of it. I don't know if it was Andrew's fault. I don't know if it's the interviewer's fault. They just didn't really. There wasn't, it wasn't a great pairing, I would say, the two of them together. In any case, Andrew made some kind of similar comments with regard to immigration and Trump. Let's go ahead and take a listen to that.

[Andrew Schultz]

And in terms of immigration, like, I want more like, if you broke the law, you did any. If you broke the law, you fucked up. You're already here illegally, so you already broke the law and you're breaking the law. You gotta go. If you've been working your ass off for 10 years here, you've got a family, there's gotta be a system where we can just give these people a pathway to citizenship or a green card or something. There has to be a better way than simply just, hey, you go. And that's what I was pleading with him for on the pod, which is maybe pleading is a strong word. But I was asking him to show empathy for these people that he's also employed. I was like, listen, you've had hotels, you know these people, you know that they're going to bust their ass, they're going to work hard and they want a better life. It's like why my mom came here, it's why your parents or maybe his great grandparents or some shit came here. So it's like, I would like there to be much more empathy in that department. I don't think that that's happening.

[Sagar Enjeti]

And what would a Democrat have to do to win Your vote back.

[Andrew Schultz]

He would just have to be named Bernie Sanders and fudgeing. Vote for him in a heartbeat.

[Crystal Ball]

No, enjoy that last comment there. I mean, interesting horseshoe, but in any case, I am actually a little bit surprised that these guys didn't know what they were getting with.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, no, I see. I think it's a little bit more fair on Rogan's end and on Andrew. Andrew actually literally was pressing Trump about immigration. And to the extent that he was like pro Trump or whatever, I don't think he ever signed up for the.

[Crystal Ball]

Quote, master the full deep Massey.

[Sagar Enjeti]

And that's my point. And this is why people are not to be put into a box. And it is important as well to play this all out. I would not have done it the way that Trump has done it, however. And look, Andrew is a good friend of mine and I do disagree with him though. I mean, I don't think that just coming to the country illegally and just because you, quote, haven't committed a crime gives you some great license for a green card. Frankly, it's an absurd policy. But as you decide, you don't wanna fight. But my main point remains is that immigration, look, the polling is all over the place. We can, I think, probably agree it's still the strongest place for Donald Trump. Maybe war will replace it. I still think it's a central reason why he was elected president both in 2016 and again in 2024. But broadly, I mean, I think one of the reasons, maybe it's a lesson for Democrats as well, is that you have people who literally believe in comprehensive immigration reform, but when you have border chaos, they're like, yeah, fuck this. And they're gonna go with somebody who. For mass deportation. In general, Americans react to whoever they think is being more chaotic on the issue of crime and or immigration. If anything, I think it's a good lesson for those people also that you can win people back or that the narrative is not locked in if you want it to be. Part of why I would encourage the Trump administration to do this efficiently and not constantly. Just, I mean, this is now like the strategy of Trump is everything is a show, everything is dialed up to 100. Like we're doing regime change and unconditional surrender and the next day we're calling for world peace. It's like, what are we doing in terms of the reporting?

[Crystal Ball]

Is he basically outsourced the deportation policy to Steven Miller?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes and no. But then also he takes control of it and then there's been a five time swing back at this point. I literally still am not clear as to whether we're raiding farms or not. And it's been 20 days of we're raiding farms. Actually, hotels and farmers need illegals to work there. Let's. So let's all ruminate on that for a second too, as to why that's apparently an allowable reason. Then Stephen Miller's like, no, actually, we're gonna be raiding them. And then Trump comes out, is like, no, actually, we're not gonna be raiding them. I believe we are back to some sort of strategic policy.

[Crystal Ball]

Oh, no, I thought we were back on with.

[Sagar Enjeti]

No, we were, but then that's two days ago. Apparently that changed. This is what I'm saying. There's been a complete schizophrenia here. And if anything, I mean, that's what really hurts Trump's cause is that nothing is coherent and ideologically sold. America is, I think, absolutely on board with criminal or illegal. Or criminal. Specifically people who have committed crimes. Yeah, absolutely. But they've done a bad job, I think, of messaging specifically on the labor issue, especially when the President is out there talking about how these farmers and hotel workers literally need illegal labor to function. I mean, again, just. It boggles the mind that a segment of industry cannot function without hiring a US citizen. It's absurd. And why would an American president endorse that if that's actually the case? That's your job to fix. So, you know, I think that's the problem, though, is he's constantly got these rich people in his ear talking his head off about how, oh, well, we can't do that without doing all of this. And it actually drives me particularly crazy because one of JD's canned speeches on the campaign trail, I probably heard this like 50 times, is about a hotel executive telling him about how he can't run his hotels at a profit without using illegal paper. And so then the President is now parroting that same at the podium.

[Crystal Ball]

But the President is that fellow executive. That's who he is.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's my point.

[Crystal Ball]

But I mean, here's the thing is, I do actually wanna fight with you, but we don't have time to fight fully on this today because there's. We got Emily waiting, then we got Professor Sachs. I will just say, I think where the confusion comes from is that Trump aggressively sold the idea on the campaign trail that undocumented immigrants overall were criminal, that there was a huge number, millions of criminals who had flooded the country in an invasion. Oh, my God, they're taking over entire town. Oh, my God, they're taking over entire Apartment complexes. And so I think that's where a lot of people, not just Joe Rogan, probably got the idea of like, oh, mass deportation. We can do a mass deportation that is just criminals, when in reality the numbers are comparatively small of actual violent criminals who are also undocumented immigrants. I'm not saying there aren't any, but you really get the sense of that when the guys, they shipped off to seekot to a literal slave labor camp for the rest of their lives with no due process, when the vast majority, even of them had no criminal record here or in other countries around the world. So I think that's where not only was there confusion about what mass deportation would ultimately mean, but also where there has been significant, yes, immigration is still his strongest policy. He's now underwater on his strongest policy though, where there's been significant upset in the way that this has gone forward. Because yes, if you ask people, should we deport criminal illegal aliens, you'll get like 89%.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Right?

[Crystal Ball]

Including myself. Sure, yes, go do it. If you ask them about the person that Rogan or Andrew are talking about there, that have been here for years and years and they don't commit any crimes and they pay tax, they do the right thing, should you deport them? It's actually the polar opposite. You get almost 80% opposed to the deportation of those people. And so I think that's why you've had a decline in support and why you've had some people, some former supporters who are expressing concern over this and why I think it was an overreading of the mandate that. Yes, I'm not downplaying that immigration was an important factor. I'm not downplaying there was rejection of Biden era immigration policies. But, but I think the reading was that then people wanted the Stephen Miller deportation policy when that is not actually popular either.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, I mean, you could also say that they have their last second term and now they don't have to get reelected. So if in a sense they're like, look, this is the only chance that you actually have at literal mass deportation. Again, we don't have time to fight. But if it's 20 million, we know what 1% of 20 million is. It's 200,000. So that's actually a lot of people. Even if just 1% are people who are violent criminals, which would, I mean, even the, the shit libs will admit that that's a big number, I think. And that has not yet reached for what in terms of the deportation numbers that have been released.

[Crystal Ball]

But they're also not targeting those people. The percent of immigrants who are detained who have criminal records is way down under the Trump administration. No, it's not. It's like 10% who have violent criminal records. It's roughly 10%, according to a new Cato Institute study.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Okay, well, you know, let's.

[Crystal Ball]

But I don't think anyone. I don't think that anyone would deny that there's been a reduction in the percentage of people who've been in pain. Stephen Miller's policy went in and yelled at ICE and was like, why are you going after criminals go to the Home Depot? So that, I mean, that is his policy.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I will grant. Part of it is about the larger number. I'm not trusting an literal libertarian Open Borders Institute number study for that. I would like to. I'm not trusting the government either. So let's also say that. And I'm not gonna deny there have been major problems. I. On the Trump administration's end, however, at a narrative level, victory, how will Trump fare on immigration? I think that the more that it is, literally that, the more that it is about order specifically, which is really what I think he was elected to restore, the better off he will be. Part of the reason I thought that LA really did not go well for him. And I think a lot of the polling broadly backs that up. The style of the government was kind of part of instigating more disorder, order. That's broadly what America really wants in terms of its crime and its immigration policy. And that is really the eternal fight. And largely, I mean, where the people suffer. Biden suffered because he let 8 to 10 million people illegally in the country, which is nuts, with literally no policy. And if Trump suffers, it will be because deported people with no due process. And there's shoddy and shitty obvious lies from the government. And people would see through that and be like, okay, well, even though I was on board, this doesn't look like restoring order to me. So for my personal criticism of them and all of that, it's the constant chaos, as it is throughout the implementation of all of their policy, which actually undermines any real stated goal and broadly will lead to pushback, I think, from the American people. And that's part of what these guys are picking up on as well, when they say Home Depot. I don't think it's actually physically just about the Home Depot raid. I think it's about the fact that, like you said about the Stephen Miller thing being like, oh, actually, no, go in there and go against Home Depot. Forget the crumble we're going from this and it's the schizophrenia actually which makes people really react in a certain way.

[Crystal Ball]

But anyway, it's a vibe.

[Sagar Enjeti]

We really need to get to her. I apologize. All right, let's get to it.

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[Sagar Enjeti]

We're very excited now to be joined by our very own Emily Jasinski, who is also the host of a new show called Afterparty with Emily Jasinski. You truly you literally are the Marco Rubio of podcasting. You have all these different shows you are working for.

[Crystal Ball]

I defended on your behalf, Emily, you.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Know, no, I mean, it's a compliment. It's a compliment for the ability to very, you know, competently hold all these hats. But, Emily, you debuted your new show with a major interview with Tucker Carlson. Could literally not have been newsier. We pulled a clip from it, and then we want to get your reaction. So let's take a listen.

[Tucker Carlson]

Ted Cruz is already taking a victory lap. He says, quote, it turns out that Tucker was wrong. I just want to get your thoughts on this, Tucker. Did Trump prove you and all of us who doubted the wisdom of this strike wrong tonight?

[Mark Levin]

Well, you could ask Trump. I mean, was this fraught with, like, existential peril? Of course. I'm so grateful that he brought it in for a landing. I mean, I think we should be grateful to him. I think we should be grateful to God. I think we should understand how close we came. But I also think we should step back and ponder what we've learned. And what we've learned is who cares about the fortunes of the United States? And who doesn't? And Ted Cruz doesn't. Obviously, the people who acknowledge no risk at all because they were so focused on helping another country, like Ted Cruz, or like, you know, the many people who revealed themselves in the last two weeks, Mark Levin chief among them, like, those people should not have any access to power at all. Those people rolled the dice with your life and with the lives of your children. It's disgusting. And so, I mean, just ask yourself, is, is Mark Levin concerned at all about the United States? Like, at all? And the answer is no. Mark Levin is a repulsive ghoul whose entire sex life consists of watching other people get blown up. He was upset that there was a ceasefire and said so. How could you be upset with a ceasefire? How could you be upset that people are no longer dying? By the way, I think the ceasefire is real. We have no idea where anything goes in life. That's up to God. But as of right now, it's absolutely real and we should be thankful for it. And so if your first instinct is, this is bad, then you've just told us who you are. And look, that's between Mark Levin and God. And I think it's going to be a tough conversation. But for our purposes, Mark Levin should not have access to power. I mean, he almost pushed the President of the United States into a path that would have destroyed the presidency and the United States.

[Tucker Carlson]

Why do you think the Mark Levins of the world didn't get what they wanted? In this case, at Least as of right now, because the president just.

[Mark Levin]

Trump doesn't want nuclear war. I mean, as he said a million times, like, he doesn't want Iran to have the bomb because he doesn't want more bombs, because he's afraid of nuclear war, because he understands what it is. I've talked to him about this on and off camera many times, and he has unique among world leaders, like, an instinctive aversion to killing millions of people in seconds. And so he's worried about nuclear war. It's the reason Tulsi Gabbard supported him, is the reason they hate Tulsi Gabbard now because she raises the actual, the very real specter of mass annihilation.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So what did you. What were your broad takeaways, considering how newsy it was? You're reacting in the middle of the ceasefire. A lot of people were going after Tucker saying his predictions were wrong and all that. So you had a lot more in that interview. What were your main takeaways here?

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, yeah, I mean, I think that point is really crucial. His predictions were wrong. But where he goes from there, he admits, I mean, in our conversation, he admits that he was, I guess, technically wrong. He says that Iran would not have come to the table without Donald Trump's decision to make those strikes. That's one of the ones that. One of the questions that I put to him, I was curious what he would make of that as someone who was kind of cheering this apparently peace deal. We'll see. As Trump said like an hour ago, Israel and Iran don't know what the fuck they're doing. So who knows where this goes. But Tucker basically was. Was saying even then, the probability of catastrophe was so high that Trump was being pushed to. As he saw it being pushed, which is interesting, too, to flirt with disaster, to flirt with utter catastrophe by people like Mark Levin, whose sex life we talked about more than I. I expected to talk about it a little bit, but not quite that much. So that's, I think the. You can call it, cope, but it's also like, hey, to be paranoid in the face of, like, thousands of people potentially dying, which is what he predicted. And by the way, I maintain, I think all of us maintain very easily could have been the outcome of those strikes in Iran. Sorry, I apologize for being a little bit paranoid about that scenario. And that's where he seems to have landed.

[Crystal Ball]

Well, I also, I mean, the point about he always shields Trump, I think, is an important one. You know, it's always Mark Levin's fault. It's Ted Cruz's fault. And thank God we have Trump in there who actually cares about avoiding nuclear war. I mean, that also, I think, leads him to have to accept the Trump framing that this brought Iran to the table when of course, we know the truth is Iran was at the table when we help the Israelis literally blow up our own negotiations, which appear to have some prospect of success. So I think that's significant. Obviously, I enjoyed watching him call Mark Levin and Ted Cruz repulsive ghouls. We have more on Ted Cruz, by the way, because he wasn't done with him and had some interesting comments about him and also about Gaza. Let's go ahead and take a listen to that.

[Mark Levin]

I've got nothing against Ted Cruz. Personally. I feel sorry for Ted Cruz. Obviously a totally hollow person taking instructions. But I do think we learned this is not someone who should be influencing wars because he just doesn't know anything, he doesn't care, and he's not putting America's interests anywhere near the top of his priorities. And that's, you know, that. Like, we saw that it's on tape and it's kind of hard to unsee it. So this is the moment to just draw a line and say, we can have all kinds of disagreements, and I'm sure that we will over all kinds of things, including wars. But if you've shown that you just don't care what happens to the United States, if you're one of the people who said, you know, the people in Gaza are so dangerous that they have to be expelled from Gaza, and by the way, maybe we should move them to the U.S. people said that. I think Ben Shapiro said that. If you are telling me that the people who live in Gaza are, are so evil that they can't live where they were born, they have to move somewhere else. And, oh, by the way, they should move to my country. What are you saying? You're saying that your country is a trash can into which we can throw a refuse. And that's their attitude.

[Crystal Ball]

So totally hollow person taking instructions, but nothing personal. Ted Cruz from Tucker there.

[Tucker Carlson]

Classic Tucker.

[Crystal Ball]

They also went after Laura Loomer. I mean, he really went down the list of, like, you know, people who he saw as being complete and total enemies at this point.

[Tucker Carlson]

He made a Dave Smith joke, too. And after he did that, he was like, I hadn't been there. And after he did that, I was like, what are we? We're playing, like, Tucker Enemy bingo. Like, I have bingo at this point. Like, we've gone through everyone well. So, yeah, he also mentioned. I asked him if he'd talked to Trump in the last couple of days, since they're sort of back and forth last week where Trump said something like, maybe Tucker should get a cable news show like, great Boomer insults at Tucker so that people actually know what he's. But they talked. And so Tucker said that he had talked to Trump in the last couple of days and then he repeated the line that the good guy is one this time. And that's really interesting to me because it sounds like Tucker and Steve Bannon feel as though their interventions over the weekend saved Trump from going into regime change mode. And I don't know how accurate that is because it's just really hard to say what happened. But they seem to think that they were lobbying against the Lindsey Graham, Mark Levin. And Mark Levin is indeed still calling for Trump to push Iran to sign a document of unconditional surrender, whatever that actually means. And so there's still risk here that Donald Trump, it's like as Sager says, Versailles. I mean, that's truly what we're learning. Not that we couldn't have predicted that, but that's what we're learning right now. So that means there's still, I think there's still very real risk going forward.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, I mean, it is interesting in terms of what you were saying about the lobbying. I do agree. I mean, it's probably overstated to a certain extent, but to say it had zero influence is just obviously not true. What I actually find more interesting is the war that's happening right now. Like you said, there really is just a split completely on the Israel question at this point against Tucker Carlson. I mean, you know, Dave Rubin, you have multiple, like Ben Shapiro and others. Like, I mean, I guess, you know, it's not like Tucker's been silent them either and going back now probably a couple of years, but I don't think it's ever been so like outright and in the open. And it is interesting that he doesn't seem actually all that interested in making peace per se and is really just like, no, like, fuck you, actually. What do you make of that?

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, no, I mean, I think that's one of the most important political consequences of all of this is MAGA is over. And that sounds dramatic, but if this like this peace deal is sort of tenuous, alleged peace deal, we still have to see what happens is tenuous. But Marjorie Taylor Greene, Tucker Carlson are never going to be able to just agree to disagree with Dave Rubins and Ben Shapiro's ever again. And does that mean MAGA is over? Well, from my perspective, yeah. I mean, I think that actually is a permanent schism in the coalition. And the other thing that we've seen over the course of last week is that when Trump violates what I call a load bearing column of maga, which is anti interventionism, it's not just like another thing that comes with the bundle. It's a load bearing column as to what holds up this coalition when he violates that. People are banning Tucker, they're willing to go against him. Maybe Tulsi wasn't, but like people on the outside are willing to go against him. Now, of course, as we've been talking about, they feel like they won. I kind of asked Tucker at one point in our conversation, you know, like it, I heard the reporting that Trump was watching Fox News and was really swayed by how impressive the images of the Israelis were. And Tucker said he thinks that's true too. And this is coming from somebody who talked to Trump in the last couple of days. So there's something I think that's really was lost for MAGA in all of this. And the question is how serious that is. But it's there. I mean, it's a scar for sure.

[Crystal Ball]

But you know, Emily, I hear what you're saying on that at the sort of influencer level, but first of all, you already have. Tucker never disputed that he called Trump to apologize. Bannon before any of this was resolved, came out and said, listen, at the end of the day we're going to follow, we're going to just trust in Trump and believe that if he does something we don't want him to, he had intelligence that we didn't see and we just know it's going to be the right decision. And I was looking at the polling from YouGov before the bombing, 53% of Republicans opposed it and only 23% supported it. After Trump decides he's going to bomb completely flips, then you only have 12%, 12% who oppose it and 69% who approve. So to me, that proves the point that Trump was making of like, I am America First. I get to say what is America First? Because at the end of the day, he knows whatever decision he makes, his maybe not every influencer, but his base are going to go along. And I guarantee you too that. And we already saw with Bannon and you know, Tucker didn't say as much, but certainly with Bannon. God, Charlie, Kirk, once Trump decided we are going to bomb these nuclear sites, then the goalposts were moved again. And then it was, oh, we'll make sure it's not a regime change. We'll make sure it's not boots on the ground. And a lot of effort spent justifying the decision after the fact, even as they had originally expressed skepticism and discontent with that potential direction.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah. And I think what they would say is they were the ones who prevented it from becoming a regime change operation, so they feel like they won in some sense. Even though Trump actually, like, ordered the strikes, which is why I asked Tucker, well, would this have happened? I mean, this thing that we're holding up as a victory right now, would this have happened without the strikes in the first place? And he conceded probably not. So I think the polling is really interesting on that too. Crystal. He could nuke someone. Trump could nuke someone on Fifth Avenue and still not lose any support. But, yeah, I think for the sort of average voter, there's a. Of trust. And Trump is still the glue that holds MAGA together. But professional maga, that's. I mean, to whatever extent that's important, probably not electorally important, but the groups that, like, hold the conferences and do all of that, like, professional MAGA beltway stuff, I think this is a real schism for them. And that that could be more or less important. I don't know.

[Crystal Ball]

As a content creator, to me, it's very important.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, okay, I'll put it this way. As the polling showed, these people are gonna go along with Trump no matter what. So I said this earlier. This is a game of elites. This is literally a Washington game as to if they're gonna go along no matter what, then we should just do what we think is right at a policy level and then let them follow. So if Trump, you know, Trump is now calling for world peace while you and I are talking, he just is saying that he's gonna remove sanctions on China buying oil from Iran. The neocons are going to lose it over that one. That's a multi billion dollar check going into the Iranian bank accounts. I mean, now he's saying, God bless Iran. My point is make Iran great again. They will go along with it no matter what he does. So the point then is actually these factions and all of this stuff, it does kind of matter because that's what's influencing stuff at the very highest level inside the White House, in the National Security Council, at a staff level. Right. Of what these people are all reading. But yeah. Anything else you want to get into before you go? I thought it was a great interview.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah, great job, Emily. And I Told you. I did not envy you having to do that interview. Just very consequential at a time when we were all like what the fuck is actually happening right now? So good job with that.

[Tucker Carlson]

No, it was overwhelming and it was booked last week before all of this happened. So it turned out to be timing. But yeah, I just wanted to thank you guys for being so supportive and having me here. I appreciate you guys a ton.

[Sagar Enjeti]

All right everybody go subscribe feelings, mutual links down in the description, etc. We'll see you later on tomorrow.

[Crystal Ball]

See you later. No, I'll see you.

[Sagar Enjeti]

No, sorry.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah, you and I have a date.

[Tucker Carlson]

That's right.

[Sagar Enjeti]

What's it you guys in late nights? I don't know. 10pm did you come up with that time? Where did this shit come from?

[Tucker Carlson]

I'm a night owl. Leave me alone.

[Crystal Ball]

That's crazy.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Crazy.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got from your producer like oh can you guys come on. I'm like what the 10pm talking about 10. Yes, I will do it for you guys pre tape. But you are. It's. It is a sacrifice. I'm just going to tell you that.

[Tucker Carlson]

We'll see you later. I understand.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Congratulations.

[Crystal Ball]

All right, bye. See you later.

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[Sagar Enjeti]

Joining us now is Professor Jeffrey Sachs at Columbia University, an expert and somebody we wanted to speak to with for quite a long time. So sir, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it.

[Trey Farrow]

Great to be with you. Thank you.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Absolutely. I mean, first, let's just start off with the insanity of the last 24 hours. I know you've been monitoring, quote, the situation, as all of us have, and we just want to get your reaction to the broader ramifications of this ceasefire, at least for now, between Israel and Iran and the role here of the United States.

[Trey Farrow]

Well, this has been an absolutely wild week. In a way, it is Bibi's fulfillment of a 30 year mission to try to drag the United States into a war with Iran. This latest episode has been part of a long term idea of Netanyahu which is we're going to do what we want in Gaza, the West bank, we're going to control everything. We'll kill will, will have a genocide and anyone that objects, any other country in the region will, will overthrow that government. That's been the basic strategy for 30 years. For 30 years the United States has gone along with that strategy, whether it is in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Sudan, Libya. And Iran was always the big prize. So Netanyahu has been absolutely itching for a big war with Iran, trying to drag the US in. And what we saw last week probably was the great battle inside between the deep state, which is absolutely in line with Mossad. It's basically a Mossad CIA operation for 30 years and MAGA which says stop, we're sick of this, this, we're sick of these wars. The President, I don't know where he is because I haven't checked my, my social media for the last 30 seconds, but he's been on both sides of this, but his base has been saying, do not do this, do not do this. Whereas Netanyahu has been saying next year in Tehran or his, his ministers have been putting that out and disgusting vulgarity. So I don't know whether this is going to stop, but this is a battle of a long term strategy of Netanyahu. Remake the Middle east to give basically complete, total impunity to Israel to do every murder, massacre, genocide that it wants to do. And some of us who think that's not making the world a better place, that's not helping anything and it's not making America more secure. Sure. Thanks God, if this ceasefire holds, that's a good thing. That's the bottom line.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah, professor, let's pull on that thread a little bit more of the Israelis. As you mentioned, this has been a multi decade project of Netanyahu specifically, but it's broadly supported with the Israeli public and certainly with his entire coalition, including literal terrorists that are involved in his government. So he's not going to give up and just, okay, cease fire. Now we have peace with Iran. That is certainly not going to happen. So what do you expect to see based on previous historical actions from the Israelis? What do you expect the Israelis to do next to try to play their next card to get us drawn in yet again?

[Trey Farrow]

Well, the Israelis will make new provocations, that's for sure. They will make arguments that now we see the perfidy of Iran or for whatever argument to, to keep drawing us in. I have said for years, I think decades now, that the main job of the President of the United States in modern times is to keep the foot on the brake of the war machine because it's always revving. If you went to the deep state in the last few days, I think bombing missions against Iran are just splendid. Let's try out those B2s. Let's see how the bunker busters do. And going beyond that, the regime change, well, that was in half the tweets of the last social truth posts of the last few days. So I think that Israel will provoke and it is the job of the United States when in rare moments presidents do their job to keep the foot on the brake. And this morning Trump unusually chastised Israel in a post saying do not drop that bomb. Well, actually that's his job. It's pretty interesting he did it this time. Yesterday was different. We'll see what happens tomorrow.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So one of the things I'm curious about, sir, you're obviously always looked at the bigger picture and there was A lot made potentially of Russia and China coming in on Iran's side that didn't materialize to have made extent, but there were at least some entanglements. We can put this one up on the screen. For example, former President Medvedev of Russia at one point basically threatened, basically said the Americans have accomplished nothing in their strikes. Potentially we could transfer nukes to them. He walked it back a little bit later saying a number of countries are ready to directly supply Iran with their own nuclear warheads. But then he walked it back later. What do you make though of how the Russians and the Chinese will respond to what's transpired in the last 12 days?

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah, I think by the way, what Medvedev was saying in that point number three was not Russia transferring nuclear arms or endorsing that, but the fact that Pakistan is a country closely aligned with the Islamic cause obviously and with Iran and absolutely a able to transfer nuclear weapons. North Korea is another case. And I think that's an important point by the way, because we've been told that the be all and end all is Iran's enrichment of uranium. That is not the true issue at stake here. The true issue at stake is is Israel vulnerable by its own actions to a nuclear attack on Israel? The answer is yes. Does Israel create more security for itself the way that it operates? My answer is no. It makes Israel more and more dangerous. Not only did we see obviously that the Iron Dome ain't so iron and that there were easily. It was not hard to penetrate the air defenses in Israel, but Israel seems to think that Iran is the end of the story. Story and it is not the end of the story. There are 57 countries in the Organization of Islamic Cooperation that are absolutely dead set against what Israel is doing. The vast majority of the world is dead set against it. When you ask about Russia and China, it is their fundamental purpose not to be thrown under the boss of the United States. This is the basic point. Point. They want a multipolar world, not a US dominated world. And they are succeeding in that because the US does not have the means, the power in my view, the interest. But put that aside. The means or the power to make a US dominated world despite what Washington has believed for more than 30 years. So Russia and China are, are careful. China's very precise. I think it is, it's a cliche, but it's also true that Russia plays chess, China plays go and the United States plays poker. One hand at a time, very quick, not any long term strategy, just go for the hand and I think that China and Russia bided their time in the first days. But the point was really Iran was not decapitated and with regime change, nor was it stopped in its ability to do great damage inside Israel up until the very last moment, which really irks the Israelis that it was the. The last exchange of missiles in this case was Iran's. And. And as then, Israel tried to violate the timeline and launch another one, so it could be last. And that's when Trump said, no, stop. We already have an understanding about the chronology. So we are watching step by step, the emerging of a true multipolar world where other powers that don't love the United States, they don't hate it, by the way, they just don't want to be subservient to it. It. They have nuclear arms, powerful weapons, the technologies that we have so that we can't dominate. And Iran is a regional power. It's not a pushover for Israel by any means. There was no one strike, and it's all over. One of the things that may have happened last week, I don't know, of course, but Netanyahu, you know, telling Trump, we can do it, we can do. We can do it. And they did their decapitation murders. Mossad really is a murder machine, of course, and it did its decapitation strike, and it did not bring down the regime. And so it probably led Trump and people around him to say, come on, the Israelis have given us a bunch of BS on this. It didn't change the regime, it didn't end the threats. And I think that's when Trump heard his base calling, he heard common sense calling. And he said, look, this isn't going according to plan. And I think the main point is with Russia and China, they were cautious, but they weren't letting Iran fall by any means. And if Iran were to be facing a more cataclysmic, seismic set of events in the last few days, I think the reactions also would have been different.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Interesting.

[Crystal Ball]

To your point about perhaps Israelis were selling and perhaps they even believed that they would be able to, you know, create a regime collapse in short time. The Washington Post got ahold of this leaked audio of Mossad agents calling Israeli generals and saying, you have 12 hours or else we're going to murder you and your wife and kids, by the way. And if you want to avoid that fate, you need to record yourself surrendering. You need to film the surrender video and send it to us. Which, of course, would have been used as propaganda by the Israelis. And as best we know, not one of them did that, which I think in and of itself is an indication that they may have miscalculated the strength of this regime, especially once a country is bombed. Like it's very common for people to rally around the flag. But I wanted to ask you with regards to Israel, so they have bombed, you know, they're committing a genocide in Palestine, in the Gaza Strip. They've bombed Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Iran, Iraq, and are a nuclear armed nation outside of the npt. You know, did have a secret nuclear weapons program and you know, are a rogue nation. I think by any characterization at this point, point, is there going to be any consequence for them? Like is there any sort of longer term consequence for the fact that they have behaved in this outrageous, barbaric fashion over years at this point and you know, really made themselves a villain in terms of the eyes of much of the world.

[Trey Farrow]

I think Israel is in its worst insecurity in its history, history by far, because it is utterly isolated in the international system. I'm sitting just outside the UN. I've been attending UN Security Council meetings, UN General assembly sessions. You have 95% of the world population voting against Israel right now. You have an overwhelming call for the absolutely practical state of Palestine being established on the borders of 4 June 1967. And Israel learning finally, after decades and decades, it's just going to have to live alongside the Palestinian people who have the same number population as the Israeli Jews. And this is the most basic point of all. Israel has no security from all of this. It has achieved nothing except a wasteland in its neighborhood. And if it wants security, the only security is to rejoin the family of nations. And the way to do that is straightforward. It's according to international law, it's according to basic common sense, it's according to decency, it's according to endless resolutions of the UN Security Council and the UN General assembly. And that is that there would be a state of Palestine for the Palestinian people alongside a state of Israel drill. And President Trump actually can make that happen if he wants his Nobel Peace Prize. It's not by this ceasefire after this behavior of the last week. It is by a Palestinian state being established. How does that happen? One vote change in the UN Security Council. The US vetoed this last year when it came to a vote in the Security Council. Which is the the part of the UN system or the international system that establishes the statehood membership in the un. All the United States has to do is to say we go along with all the rest of the world and tell Israel, wake up, we're saving you. We're not hurting you. We are saving you from yourself. However, it's just crazy what Israel's doing. And the idea that this is any security, I think they should understand that with apartment buildings in Beersheba being destroyed, with Haifa being attacked, with Tel Aviv being attacked, with the countries outside of the region like Pakistan and DPRK watching, if Israel thinks it has any security at all from its brazenness, it should think again. And by the way, what we saw in the Mossad take tape, which is chilling, of course, to listen to.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

Is that Mossad became a killing machine. It's very skillful at mass murder, I would say not mass murder in the sense the murder of the leadership of the Iranian military last week. Yes, that's Mossad's business. But to have that as your centerpiece of statehood, to be Murder Incorporated is not going to get you safety or security or any sound sleep any day in your life. Israel needs to rethink fundamentally this Bibi strategy, which goes back to 1996, when he first became prime minister.

[Crystal Ball]

And I think, to your point, point, they're not going to rethink it because the public is broadly supportive of the Bibi strategy. It has to be forced upon them. And the United States of America can do that if there is any will to do it.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah, it depends. Always, it has always depended on the United States going along. By the way, people should get online if they haven't done it recently. And look at Netanyahu's speech to the US Congress in. In 2002 telling him how wonderful the Iraq war is going to be. Oh, it's a cakewalk. It's going to inspire the whole region. This man is nuts. He's a failure. For 30 years. He's the biggest warmonger on the planet. If Trump wants a successful presidency, don't sign on to this idiocy. Do your job, Mr. President. Make peace in the region. That has to be you. Give the state of Palestine alongside the state of Israel, Stop the genocide and go along with international law. It's pretty straightforward. It's there for the taking.

[Sagar Enjeti]

All right. Well, sir, we always appreciate your analysis, and it was great talking to you. Thank you very much for joining us.

[Crystal Ball]

Thank you for having me.

[Trey Farrow]

Pleasure to be with you. Thank you.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Thanks so much for watching, guys. We appreciate it. Crystal and Emily will be on the live stream, and then Griffin and Ryan from New York City covering the mayoral race tonight, so make sure you tune in for that. And we will see you all later.

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[Emily Jasinski]

So say hello to hello with the.

[Jenny Garth]

Always cruelty free Never tested on Animals toothpaste that's made to spread smiles. Visit helloproducts.com and let hello add some.

[Crystal Ball]

Everyday yay into your life.

[Jenny Garth]

This is an iHeart podcast.