6/27/25: Hegseth Meltdown On Iran, Gaza Ceasefire, Zohran & MORE!

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar – Episode Summary (June 27, 2025)

Hosts: Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti
Release Date: June 27, 2025
Platform: iHeartPodcasts
Episode Title: Hegseth Meltdown On Iran, Gaza Ceasefire, Zohran & MORE!

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1. Introduction and Overview

The episode kicks off with Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti setting the stage for a comprehensive discussion on pressing geopolitical and political issues. They outline their agenda, which includes updates on Iran’s nuclear program, a breakdown of Pete Hegseth’s recent media performance, the evolving political landscape surrounding Zoron Mamdani’s mayoral campaign in New York City, and insights into potential diplomatic deals with Iran and Israel.

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2. Iran’s Nuclear Program and Pete Hegseth’s Briefing

[07:59] Pete Hegseth on Iran's Nuclear Program: Pete Hegseth delivered a passionate briefing aimed at countering narratives that downplay the success of recent military actions against Iran’s nuclear capabilities. He emphasized the complexity and sophistication of military missions, asserting, “It's irresponsible… to undermine the success of incredible B2 pilots and F35 pilots who accomplished their mission.”

Krystal Ball’s Analysis: Krystal critiques Hegseth’s approach, drawing parallels to past anti-war rhetoric. She notes, “It reminds me of how those of us who were against the Iraq war received backlash… ‘You hate the troops. You hate America.’” Ball questions the administration’s strategy, suggesting that the focus on military prowess is overshadowing the broader goal of de-escalating conflicts.

[13:56] Jennifer Griffin Interview Clip: Jennifer Griffin, during a CNN interview, questioned the completeness of the nuclear strike on Iran: “Do you have certainty that all the highly enriched uranium was inside the Fordo Mountain or some of it?” Her inquiry highlights discrepancies between official statements and intelligence reports.

[14:49] Hegseth’s Response: Hegseth dismisses Griffin’s concerns by attacking her credibility: “But, Jennifer, you've been about the worst… misrepresents the most intentionally what the President says.” This exchange underscores the tension between military officials and media representatives.

Saagar Enjeti’s Commentary: Enjeti argues that the leaked intelligence suggests Iran’s nuclear program may not be as devastated as claimed, stating, “The information is also accurate… almost every leak… has a motivated actor.” He criticizes the administration for potentially exacerbating tensions, which could hinder diplomatic solutions.

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3. Internal Political Maneuvering: Zoron Mamdani’s Mayoral Campaign

[28:30] Interview with Dave Weigel: The hosts welcome political analyst Dave Weigel to discuss Zoron Mamdani’s decisive win over Andrew Cuomo in the New York City Democratic primary. Weigel highlights the surprising nature of Mamdani’s victory, noting, “He got more votes than anyone who’s won this primary since David Dinkins in 1989.”

Zoron's Platform and Democratic Response: Mamdani’s campaign focused on affordability and housing, diverging from traditional Democratic candidates who emphasized progressive stances like defunding the police. This strategy resonated with voters disillusioned with establishment politics. Weigel explains, “His strategy was always see where the puck is moving… run on affordability, housing.”

Kirsten Gillibrand’s Interview Clip: Senator Kirsten Gillibrand addresses concerns about Zoron's rhetoric, specifically his use of the term “globalize the Intifada.” Gillibrand clarifies, “I just want to be clear that he said he does not support violent Intifada.” However, Enjeti and Ball critique the ambiguity, emphasizing the hurtful connotations the term holds for many Jewish Americans.

Krystal Ball’s Insights: Ball discusses the Democratic Party’s precarious position, suggesting that attempts to distance themselves from Mamdani could backfire. “If Democrats try to sabotage him, it will hurt the party long term,” she warns, highlighting the risk of alienating the already disgruntled Democratic base.

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4. Potential Diplomatic Deals with Iran and Israel

[50:00] Reporting on New Iran Deal: The hosts delve into reports suggesting the White House is negotiating a new Iran deal, potentially unlocking $30 billion for Iran’s civilian nuclear program and easing sanctions. Ball questions the authenticity of these gestures, stating, “Who knows if these new gestures towards diplomatic diplomacy are legitimate or part of some new ruse.”

Implications for Non-Proliferation: Enjeti warns that the administration’s actions might undermine global non-proliferation efforts. “They have set back their own stated goals… making it more likely that Iran will rapidly pursue a nuclear weapon,” he asserts, emphasizing the fragile nature of diplomatic relations post-military intervention.

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5. Other Notable Discussions

Peter Thiel’s Antichrist Question: The episode briefly touches on Peter Thiel being questioned about whether he is the Antichrist, referencing his awkward contemplation during the interview. Krystal Ball humorously comments, “Where else should you be contemplating such things?” highlighting the bizarre nature of the inquiry.

Jeff Bezos’s Wedding: A lighter segment covers Jeff Bezos’s wedding, though details are sparse. The hosts express interest in discussing it further in the premium portion of the show.

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6. Conclusion and Future Outlook

As the episode wraps up, Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti reflect on the tumultuous political landscape. They underscore the significance of Zoron Mamdani’s victory as a bellwether for the Democratic Party’s future and the growing rift between establishment figures and progressive voters. Enjeti muses, “If Democrats try to sabotage him, it is devastating for them because… they have failed specifically in the eyes of the Democratic base.”

Ball adds, “This proves that he's uncomfortable for them… it benefits him,” suggesting that the establishment’s struggles may inadvertently bolster anti-establishment candidates like Mamdani.

The hosts tease upcoming discussions in the premium segment, including deeper dives into the Bezos wedding, additional political clips, and analyses of missed interviews with Joy Reid.

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Notable Quotes

• Pete Hegseth [07:59]:
  “It's irresponsible… to undermine the success of incredible B2 pilots and F35 pilots who accomplished their mission.”

• Jennifer Griffin [13:56]:
  “Do you have certainty that all the highly enriched uranium was inside the Fordo Mountain or some of it?”

• Kirsten Gillibrand [43:41]:
  “I just want to be clear that he said he does not support violent Intifada.”

• Saagar Enjeti [22:23]:
  “There's no way you're going to trust these people [Iranians].”

• Dave Weigel [29:01]:
  “Zoran's strategy was always see where the puck is moving… run on affordability, run on housing.”

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Key Takeaways

• Geopolitical Tensions:
  The episode provides a critical analysis of the Trump administration’s handling of Iran’s nuclear program, highlighting inconsistencies between military claims and media reports.

• Political Shifts in NYC:
  Zoron Mamdani’s unexpected primary victory signifies a shift within the Democratic Party towards more progressive platforms focused on affordability and anti-establishment sentiments.

• Democratic Party Dynamics:
  The establishment’s struggle to align with progressive candidates like Mamdani exposes deeper fractures within the party, potentially influencing future elections and policy directions.

• Diplomatic Uncertainties:
  Upcoming diplomatic efforts with Iran and Israel are met with skepticism, raising questions about their sincerity and potential impact on international relations.

• Media and Rhetoric:
  The use of charged language, such as “Intifada,” by political figures like Zoron underscores the challenges in maintaining inclusive and respectful discourse in diverse urban settings.

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections to focus solely on the substantive discussions of the episode.

Transcript

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[Sagar Enjeti]

Hey guys, Sagar and Krystal here.

[Unknown Host]

Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.

[Sagar Enjeti]

This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.

[Unknown Host]

So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

[Sagar Enjeti]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breaking points.com.

[Unknown Host]

Good morning, everybody. Happy Friday. A little ladies Friday show for. For everyone. How's it going, Emily?

[Krystal Ball]

It's going great. Um, yeah. I don't know what's up with the guys. They've been working hard.

[Unknown Host]

We'll give it that.

[Krystal Ball]

We'll give them that.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah. I mean, Ryan and Griffin were both in New York. I mean, you know, a lot going.

[Krystal Ball]

It was like a hundred degrees.

[Unknown Host]

I am seriously. I don't know how you do in that weather. I just am not cut out for it. I wilt like a delicate flower.

[Krystal Ball]

But you're a Virginian, so you should be used to it.

[Unknown Host]

I know, but I don't. I just can't. I don't know, there's something about the way I'm. I'm put together that it just doesn't go that well and I'm really. And I'm a really sweaty person. Like.

[Krystal Ball]

Oh, nice.

[Unknown Host]

Oh, I sweat, so it's disgusting. So, yeah, I was very glad when I saw that situation because I was tempted to be jealous that they were the. The Zoron watch party because, like, the energy seemed super fun. But then I remembered it was like 100 degrees and it was. Was like, no, it's better for me to be here.

[Krystal Ball]

So now I wish that I had seen you at the Sauron watch party because you're making it sound like this, like, freakish, like there's some genetic anomaly in your.

[Unknown Host]

It borders. It borders on fre. Freakish. You know, to be honest with you, I don't know if there's any other swimmers out there, but the many of the sweatiest women that I know are swimmers. So I don't know if there's something about like all that time in the pool. Anyway, this is way too much, too much information for a Friday, you know?

[Krystal Ball]

It is, but I'm okay with it.

[Unknown Host]

In any case, there's a lot to get to. We've got updates on Iran. We'll do play some clips from the little Pete Hegseth performance yesterday that was kind of interesting. And we've got new potential deal with Iran, new potential deal with Israel. Also, some horrifying reporting from Haaretz about this won't necessarily come as a surprise, but they actually got soldiers to confess that the aid massacres are intentional, that they know these are innocent people that they're slaughtering as a matter of course. So talk about that. Bunch of stuff going on with Zoran, Richie Torres defending him, some Republican congressmen saying he should be denaturalized and deported. You've got a bunch of Democratic leaders who are, you know, Kirsten Gillibrand just like aggressively racistly attacking him. Kathy Hochul sort of, I guess, keeping her options open. It's like, y' all, this is the Democratic nominee. Voters chose him. So what happened to the whole vote blue no matter who thing? Zorin also was on cnn, so interesting clips there. So a bunch of stuff going on there. Donors are plotting, try to see what they can do to, you know, overcome this horrifying communist Muslim takeover of New York City that they're apparently terrified of. We've also got the Jeff Bezos wedding that you were interested in chatting about. So we got that. We also have Peter Thiel getting asked if he's the Antichrist by Ross. Doubt that. Of course. And it's sort of like. Yeah. And him like, sort of awkwardly contemplating whether that could be the case for a moment.

[Krystal Ball]

So love that on the New York Times podcast. I mean, where else should you be contemplating such things? But on the podcast, why not?

[Unknown Host]

Yeah. I mean, I. Ross, in a certain sense, kind of the perfect person to ask this question. Right.

[Krystal Ball]

You. You've also neglected to tease that we have a wonderful Eric Adams clip. It's not the best Eric Adams clip, but it's a good Eric Adams clip.

[Unknown Host]

I mean, the competition is so, it's.

[Krystal Ball]

So stiff that he's now, he's now in competition with Lori Lightfoot for like, greatest blue mayor.

[Unknown Host]

Like, it's, oh, he's. In terms of the content there. He, he has no, there's no comparison. You know that the searching of the child's room video is legendary. Like, you can't beat that. And then the sum up the year in one word, New York, because you can see someone opening a business or the planes flying into the tower. Like, you can't beat this guy in terms of content. You can't beat him.

[Krystal Ball]

Sorry, Zoran, you're cooked.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah, I mean, your halal cart video was great, Zoran, but I'm sorry, you just. You can't compete with that kind of. That kind of inspired content creation.

[Krystal Ball]

Truly can't come for the king. That's right.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah, that's right. All right, so let's go ahead and jump in with some of what's going on with this Pete Hegseth presser yesterday. Should we start with him raging at his former colleagues, or should we start with his dictating that the media needs to talk more about how. How, you know, good our fighter pilots are? Which one do you prefer?

[Krystal Ball]

Both are good. Maybe we start with the fighter pilots because the Jennifer Griffin clip gets us into that question of what the intelligence actually says.

[Unknown Host]

Yes, very true. All right, let me get rid of my DMs here, and let me slow down to 1.0 speed. All right, I think we're ready to go. Here is Pete Hegseth yesterday. And this whole purpose of this briefing was to rebut the idea that the nuclear program in Iran was not completely obliterated. And to insist that it was, and mostly to berate the media, I think, was the true. So let's go ahead and take a listen to this.

[Pete Hegseth]

How many stories have been written about how hard it is to, I don't know, fly a plane for 36 hours? Has MSNBC done that story as Fox? Have we done the story, how hard that is? Have we done it two or three times so that American people understand how about how difficult it is to shoot a drone from an F15 or 16 or F22 or F35 or what it's like to man a Patriot battery, or how hard it is to refuel midair, giving the American people an understanding of how complex and sophisticated this mission really was? There are so many aspects of what our brave men and women did that because of the hatred of this press corps are undermined because your people are trying to leak and spin that it wasn't successful. It's irresponsible. And folks in this room are privy to that information because of the proximity here in the Pentagon. It's an important responsibility. And time and time again, classified information is leaked or peddled for political purposes to try to make the president look bad. And what's really happening is you're undermining the success of incredible B2 pilots and incredible F35 pilots and incredible refuelers and incredible air defenders who accomplished their mission, set back a nuclear program in ways that other presidents would have dreamed.

[Unknown Host]

How about. So, Emily, there's a lot going on here, but it reminds me so much of the attacks that those of us who were against the Iraq war received back in the days, in the day of like, oh, if you don't support this war, then you hate the troops. You hate the troops. You hate America. You're unpatriotic. And so here he is saying, like, you know, what the media really needs to cover is how difficult these missions are. I don't doubt that's the case. But it also gets into. This is the other part of. This is one of many things that have driven me crazy about the way that the administration is talking about this is they act like it's something special for an American president to be able to drop bombs on a place, and that's actually the easiest thing in the world to do. The hard thing, apparently, based on, you know, the experience of our lifetimes, is to not drop bombs and to get us out of conflicts rather than get us into conflicts. So what did you make of Pete Hegseth little performance here?

[Krystal Ball]

He sort of reminded me of, like, my basketball coach. Like, how many of you have thanked the point guard for. For all these rebounds? How many of you have done that two times, three times? It was just like, you know, from their perspective, to be honest, it's politically smart, right, to go out there, create the. This spectacle. And I feel like they're starting to do this more to stage the spectacle where you have a TV performer like. Like Pete Hegseth. Absolutely. Laying into the media over something. The kernel here is legitimate. Someone leaked part of an intelligence report, and we're about to get into that to CNN and the New York Times. And it was something that said the administration strike was not successful. Now, I'm curious whether these reporters, these Pentagon reporters, allow themselves to be used as props spectacles going forward, because that's basically what they were. That's.

[Unknown Host]

But, Emily, you also have to say, like, I think there's two things going on here. Number one, I don't doubt that whoever leaked this information wants us to get back into the war. I don't doubt that that's the case, probably. But I also don't doubt that the information was accurate because we now have corroborating information from other sources that say, yeah, the enriched uranium was probably removed. Yeah, it was not really completely obliterated. In fact, even the things this administration has put out has not said that it's been completely obliter. So, yes, you have a motivated actor in putting out this league. But the information is also accurate. So if you're a journalist, oh, yes, you have a response. It's not the journalist's fault. Like, you have a responsibility to put out information that is accurate and will help people understand the fact that the truth of the matter is Trump wants to claim a victory. And okay, if that's gonna let him not go back to this war, which, by the way, I'm still skeptical about whatever, but it is probably a lie. And, you know, so they want to attack the media over presenting what is in all likelihood accurate. But, yes, motivated information. But almost every leak, whether it's from within the government or from a source or whatever, it's very common that it will be a motivated leak to try to achieve some information ends, you know, one way or another. So if you're, as a journalist, not going to publish that, then you're picking and choosing what information the American public is allowed to have access to.

[Krystal Ball]

Oh, totally. And it's interesting to see Pete Hegseth in this situation because to your point and any Trump administration official in this situation, because, to your point, this is the administration that campaigned on being anti war and the peace president, or the president for peace, however they phrase it. And they now find themselves saying that the Pentagon press corps is insufficiently patriotic, which is amusing because the Pentagon press corps, I think Crystal, notoriously, is, like, intertwined with the, I don't know, what's the best way to put, like, the military industrial complex and is eager to sell stories about how incredible these planes are, how incredible these, you know, new munitions are. And, like, it's, It's. So to see the Trump administration then come in and say, you're not selling this war enough after, I mean, it's just, it's a kind of an interesting, like, she was on the other foot moment. And I do have a lot of thoughts on the intelligence itself. I think. I totally agree with you. So we should probably roll the Jennifer Griffin clip because that gets into what the administration is actually saying happened.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah, indeed. All right, let's take a listen to this.

[Jennifer Griffin]

It's about highly enriched uranium. Do you have certainty that all the highly enriched uranium was inside the Four Doe Mountain or some of it? Because there were satellite photos that showed more than a dozen trucks there two days in advance. Are you certain none of that highly enriched uranium was moved?

[Pete Hegseth]

Of course. We're watching every single aspect.

[Unknown Host]

Before he answers us, let me just say that is a totally legitimate question. And part of what the intel that was leaked Said is that. And there were satellite images of, like, trucks lined up to move the enriched uranium. And there have been other assessments as well that indicate probably most of the highly enriched uranium stockpile was. So this is the most basic, obvious, like, legitimate question you could possibly ask. So let's see how Pete Hegseth responds to this perfectly legitimate, fair question being asked by his former colleague.

[Pete Hegseth]

But, Jennifer, you've been about the worst, the one who misrepresents the most intentionally what the President says.

[Jennifer Griffin]

I'm familiar about the ventilation shafts on Saturday night. And in fact, I was the first to describe the B2 bombers, the refueling, the entire mission with great accuracy. So I take issue with that.

[Pete Hegseth]

I appreciate you acknowledging this is the first opera, the most successful mission based on operational security that this department has done since you've been here. And I appreciate that. So we're looking at all aspects of intelligence and making sure we have a sense of what was where.

[Unknown Host]

So she says, I did your bullshit propaganda, bro. Like, why are you coming at me? But she has also accurately reported on, you know, some of the things he doesn't want to be put out there. And so he, you know, he takes this moment to attack her as, quote, unquote, one of the worst.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, it's not surprising at all because everyone at, well, everyone in, like, Trump world already doesn't like Jennifer Griffin because she does do a lot of the propaganda to the point that you just made, Crystal. And Tucker Carlson has since reacted by calling Jennifer Griffin a liberal. I think it's probably true that she's, like, anti Trump. I don't know if she's, like, conservative or liberal, but she's definitely sort of like pro military, industrial complex and anti Trump. So it was like. And Hexith has attacked her before. So it was like he was ready to just unload this. Years of resentment from working at Fox towards Jennifer Griffin. Interesting that her voice sounded like it was shaking a little bit, like she was. She was rattled and genuinely very angry. Totally, totally fair. You are being dressed down on a. Actually, the question that she asked him, and this is how we queued up, the video is completely, completely, completely legitimate. There were reports obviously, that trucks were moving away from the facility in the days before the strikes. And actually, if you. I mean, there are a couple of ways that that could. That could be a. That could have been a deterrent, an attempted deterrent to say, like, Trump, don't bomb Fordo, because we already moved everything. Or it could be legitimate, it could be real, and the administration is. Is using Two lines, they're saying total obliteration and severely damaged. There's daylight between those. Yeah, there's actually a lot of daylight between those. So she actually was not asking a bad question.

[Unknown Host]

But it seems like, yeah, and this is the European assessment says Iran's uranium is largely intact. So, yeah, it's, you know, I mean, it's a pretty key question when you're thinking about, okay, well, did you actually set them back and how much did you set them back by? This is, you know, a core piece of this. And you have multiple assessments, including the one our own that was leaked to, you know, New York Times, among other places, that says, and CNN that says, no, the uranium stockpile is largely intact. So, you know, which underscores. Listen, again, if they want to pretend that, you know, it's completely obliterated and if that helps prevent us from getting into a war with Iran, okay. But it also underscores, Emily, how stupid and pointless and risky this whole mission was and how ultimately counterproductive. Like, if your goal was to actually set them back and make it impossible for them to develop nuclear weapon, there's no doubt that that failed. Like, you have made it much more likely that they will rapidly pursue a nuclear weapon. The thing that had the chance to succeed was the negotiations that you yourselves blew up. So I think it is actually important for people to understand that, no, not actually nothing was accomplished by dropping these bombs. In fact, you have set back your own stated goals, preventing Iran developing nuclear weapon. Not to mention that you have also set back the overall global goal of non proliferation, because other countries will be looking at and assessing what happened in Libya, what happened here, you know, what happened in, what happened in Ukraine even, and the fact that we don't mess with North Korea and we're fearful to get involved in a direct fight against Russia, and they will logically come to the conclusion that the only thing that can keep the US and Israel from completely with you and trying to destroy your country is by developing a nuclear weapon.

[Krystal Ball]

The administration is in. I mean, this is why I think they put together that spectacle, because they need answers for what actually happened. And they keep saying that that initial report which was leaked was low confidence. And they've been using another word that eludes me at the moment, but like it's, it's a preliminary low confidence report. And that means they now have to convince the public that the strike was absolutely successful. But they don't actually seem to know. They don't actually seem to have the intelligence yet. And it seems crystal from all of the you just laid out, there is a non zero chance that the Jennifer Griffin report in this case, which likely was leaked by somebody who wants more action in Iran, she was reporting that it was set back by, quote, one to two months. And that's similar to the Times and to cnn. So that's why it's really getting under their skin because it undercuts the entire premise of what they did. And that's why, to your point, it was always really risky. So they need to, they really need to come up with answers. I don't, it's impossible that the program was set back years. I don't think it was impossible that it was set back one or two months. But they haven't produced the intelligence yet to suggest that it was, it was longer than, than one to two months.

[Unknown Host]

That's right. Yeah. Just a couple more things on this topic. So we now have reporting that the White House is going to limit intelligence sharing with Congress. They are trying to blame Democrats for this leak. Possible, I don't know, I don't know how much access Democrats had to this intelligence to begin with. They also are addition sidelining Tulsi to a greater extent apparently than she already was. So they plan to limit classified intelligence sharing with Congress after leaks amid a political battle over what the intelligence shows. White House is expected to send four of its top national security officials to brief lawmakers Pete Hegseth, Marco Rubio, John Ratcliffe and General Dan Kane that he's the chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. You will note who was not there, the Director of National Intelligence. That would be Tulsi Gabbard. It says she testified march that U.S. intelligence agencies assessed Iran was not building a nuclear weapon. And she will be notably absent, according to the senior Trump administration official. Ratcliffe will represent the intelligence community. The media is turning this into something it's not. Emily. So that is their, their line on that. Any thought, any thoughts on that report and on the, you know, the sidelining of Tulsi Gabbard, which is significant at a time when they're claiming also that they're following more of her, what she would want to see. Right. Since they are claiming that this is, you know, the end of the war and the ceasefire will last forever and ever and peace will reign for all time. I don't know why you need to sideline, you know, one of your most prominent sort of anti interventionist voices.

[Krystal Ball]

It's a good point. I, you know, simultaneously love and hate these types of news cycles where, you know, that it's a matter of years until you find out what's actually going on behind the scenes because people just flatly will not talk about it about like the personnel conflicts with Tulsi Gabbard, which could be minor, could be major. She could be significantly pushing back, she could be not pushing back at all. But we don't really know right now. We just have to put together the pieces from reports from what they're saying publicly, like Tulsi Gabbard coming out and putting that post up that said her presentation of the intelligence was being misconstrued and you know, taken out of context by the media ahead of the strike. That was quite an interesting moment. And it's came the week after she put out that cryptic video about what, Nagasaki and Hiroshima. So it seems that, you know, there's something serious brewing, but I don't know how serious it is behind the scenes.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah. And she, you know, it could be the case too that she just like annoyed Trump.

[Krystal Ball]

Right.

[Unknown Host]

Because she sort of stepped out from the, you know, she, she freelanced with that video and that pissed him off. And so now she's just sort of like out of the in circle because certainly publicly she's been pulling the administration's line on everything and backing Trump up and claiming she didn't say the things that she said, etc. But it could just be he's sort of irritated with her on a personal level because she, you know, grabbed the spotlight in a way that was not sanctioned by him. We've actually got Dave Weigel standing by to talk about Zoran, which I'm excited about hearing, you know, to hear from Dave about what he's seeing inside of the Democratic Party and efforts to stop Zoron in the general election. But first, just let me just mention this. So there is reporting from cnn, the Trump administration has discussed a new potential Iran deal helping them access as much as $30 billion to build a civilian energy producing nuclear program, easing sanctions, freeing up billions of dollars in restricted Iranian funds. All part of an intensifying attempt to bring Tehran back to the negotiating table. For sources familiar with the matter said, and you know, listen, who knows what they really are aiming for here? Who knows if these new gestures towards diploma diplomacy are legitimate or part of some new ruse. But it's clear that if you're the Iranians, like you're not going to trust these people. There's no way you're going to trust these people. And so even the framing here that they would have to offer all of these things in advance in order to get them back to the negotiating table where they previously were. And there were like, you know, indications that it was fairly close to being able to make a deal if the Trump administration didn't have this hard line zero enrichment policy. It shows you that again, in terms of their stated goals, the military action set them back from being able to achieve some sort of diplomatic solution and may have made such a thing completely impossible.

[Krystal Ball]

And that gets again to the question of what the intelligence actually is. Because if Iran is coming to the table with no nuclear weapons or, well, not weapons but no nuclear capacity, no, you know, highly enriched uranium or no ability to quickly enrich uranium, then they're in a different spot at the negotiating table. So it's just we don't know right now, and I don't know that the Trump administration knows right now because they don't have full intelligence yet.

[Emily Jashinsky]

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[Unknown Host]

All right, well, let's go ahead and jump to Zoron. Since we've got Weigel waiting, let me go ahead and welcome him in. Hey, Dave Weigel, how's it going?

[Sagar Enjeti]

That's good. Thanks for having me.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah, no problem. You hear us okay and all that good stuff.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I do, yeah.

[Unknown Host]

Excellent. So curious to get your thoughts first of all, before I play any elements or whatever. I mean, what is just your sort of takeaway of the significance of Zorin's win and decisive victory over Andrew Cuomo in this week's Democratic primary for New York City mayor?

[Sagar Enjeti]

I don't even want to argue with the hyperbole because. Because often people overrate. I think there's an overrating of what this means for every Democrat everywhere for what it means in New York, the city has been. Democrats have been voting for progressive candidates, people they thought were progressive candidates for a while, since 2013. Bill de Blasio. But the amount of things Zoran did and said that the media establishment said were disqualifying and that voters didn't care about that was fascinating. So the idea that New York Democrats say we're tired of austerity and we don't need it right now, and we. That, I think, was intensified because Trump was president and Zoran's strategy was always see where the puck is moving. Don't just run a 2022 campaign where you're going to apologize for there being crime. Run on affordability, run on housing. That made sense. But the degree to which he got more votes than Eric Adams did in the final round of voting last time, he got more votes than, I think, anyone who's won this primary since David Dinkins in 1989.

[Unknown Advertiser]

Wow.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah. And New York's population has grown a bit, but the Democratic electorate has dipped. Sometimes they just didn't. The idea that he was going to be disqualified by being a socialist or criticizing Israel in the ways that he was happy to do or having tweeted about defunding the police, that was significant. Just that he was not disqualified, that Cuomo was disqualified. There are so many elements to this. But just the reason he was covered as somebody who was interesting but probably not going to win those merits and reexamination, a lot of New Yorkers said, no, I'm fine with it. I'm fine with everything else. He's saying because I want. I want to my city to be more affordable.

[Krystal Ball]

Right. And the question now is whether that extends beyond the Democratic primary. We have this video. Ken Klippenstein posted that. We'll get your reaction to Dave of Zoran going on CNN with Aaron Burnett. Much more of this to come, surely. But let me and play this video and get your reactions.

[Sagar Enjeti]

And I think ultimately the definition for me of why I call myself a democratic socialist is the words of Dr. King. Decades ago, he said, call it democracy or call it democratic socialism. There must be a better distribution of wealth for all of God's children in this country. And that's what I'm focused on, is dignity and taking on income inequality.

[Unknown Advertiser]

Do you like capitalism?

[Sagar Enjeti]

No. I have many critiques of capitalism and I think ultimately the definition.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, okay. He's going to get this nonstop from now until November.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah. And also, but look who won the financial district. It's not that everyone who works in financial, they live in fancier places. People who work in financial districts. But yeah, this was not anathema. This was not disqualifying for people. And I'm trying not to just recapitulate the last 15 years of politics. Republicans know, Republicans who are now attacking him, they know that there's just a collapse of faith in every institution, even theirs, even the ones they control right now. But being the party, how did Donald Trump win? Did Donald Trump win by saying, I'm going to protect Wall Street, I love capitalism? He didn't. It's assumed he loves capitalism. Doesn't say he hates it, doesn't say he's a critic. But the idea of a rigged system, There have been different ways to talk about that. We've had 10 years now of Bernie Sanders talking about it his way. We've had 10 years of polls. Now, Bernie's never been in a general election where people could beat him up with a billion dollars of ads. But poll's saying, yeah, the guy who says he's a socialist and he thinks banks are screwing us and healthcare companies are screwing us, I agree with that guy. There's just so much overlap. Joe Rogan's very helpful here. He personifies this, but shows like this personify this. And so when I hear the Bill Ackmans of the world shudder at that and say, well, this is going to make capital flee from the city. Look, there are other externalities there, but there are Trump voters. There are people who voted against Harri for Trump, I should say in New York who voted for Mamdani. And it's in that, it's in that delta. It is those people who say, yeah, all the systems are rigged. And Eric Adams, who a lot of them probably also voted for, seemed like he was, he was bowing down to donors, cutting services, reversing promises he made when people gave him money. If you say you're against that, even if you say you don't love capitalism, pretty easy for a lot of people to swallow.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah. So let's talk about some of the scrambling you mentioned, Bill Ackman, that's happening right now behind the scenes to try to, you know, as for anyone but Zoron effort for this fall. And let's also keep in mind Eric Adams has a 20% approval rating in New York City that is the lowest for any New York City mayor as long as they've been doing polling and well earned because he is a sort of cartoonishly corrupt, likely criminal mayor. The number of people who were like indicted or resigned from his administration in shame I've completely lost track of at this point. He only is able to get out of his charges by appearing to make some directly corrupt deal with the Trump administration or not exactly beloved within New York City. And yet now you have business leaders who are like, maybe we've got to just stick with Eric Adams. Cuomo is also now said he's sort of waiting to see he's going to keep his ballot line and wait to see whether he actively competes in the fall. But you've got this New York Times report about Eric Adams meeting with business leaders who are desperate to stop Mamdani's rise. Mentioned in here is you've got the Polymarket CEO in here, among others. So what do you know, Dave, about the sort of efforts that are going on with these business leaders to try to figure out some anyone but Zoron kind of a strategy.

[Sagar Enjeti]

You summed it up pretty well. They're flopping around. They're not, they're not Quite sure what to do. They're looking for some deus ex machina that will prevent him. You even have Andy Ogles, the trollish congressman from Nashville, wondering if there's some way to deport him. There is a panic because they know.

[Unknown Host]

That, yes, Adams, which was so aggressive that it caused even Richie Torres to defend Zoron, tells you how out there that was.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I do, I wonder if some of it's gonna backfire. But what they're doing right now is honestly, again, people forget the de Blasio reaction, different climate. But if you go back and read the coverage of when de Blasio won the primary in 2013 because he won in large part running against Stop and Frisk, there was a lot of the same editorializing. It was, oh, New York is going to implode, crime is going to surge, the wealthy are going to leave the city. And Mamdani, other parts, that CNN interview which I watched yesterday, he says, one, there's data that says most people who are leaving New York are actually working class people who can't afford it. And two, they say this all the time. And the other, just to say Mamdani's premise, and this is the thing that to be fair to Ackman, if I want to, he just doesn't believe Mamdani's premise. And I interviewed him a few weeks ago about this is you need to prove that you vote for progressive, you pay taxes and things get better. And people have not been doing that. And every Democrat agrees. There's been this overlap between the Ezra Klein abundance people and the Zoran people, whether they like it or not, but because that's where they agree, they want Republicans to not win elections and they worry when Democrats win and screw up, the Republicans win. So the, the, the. This is where the Adams theory is not very compelling. He's. He's saying that the city has improved since he got elected and it has in some ways. Crime is down, but it got more expensive. He has no answer for how it got more expensive. It's just the same position Kamala Harris was in last year and the Madani, it's very well put out, put by him. I'm just not trying to praise him too much. But I interviewed him. He says it everywhere. He looks at Bernie Sanders in Burlington or progressive mayors in other cities, they have it all. But successes who raise some taxes and then suddenly you're seeing more public transit, you're seeing better services. If you gave an Ackman the chance to pay higher taxes and he never had to be. Well, not that he takes the subway, but. But see homeless people sleeping on the subway, Would he take it? It's. It's a quality of life thing that Mamdani is running on. These folks we're talking about don't believe they have a vision that socialists are just going to wreck the economy and everyone's gonna be on the streets. This is their view of what happened in San Francisco. I get that. But the Madani premise is, no, we're going to raise taxes and improve things for everybody. When congestion pricing. I'm not trying to swerve too much, but talking to people when I was in New York covering this race, they're saying that's an example. It's a tax. It has made more people go into public transit. That's been fine. There have not been crises. It's not really been working class people use who are. Who are changing their habits. It's been wealthy people who are no longer driving into the city. Progressives, if they're anything but, please vote for us. Because Republicans screwed up. They need to be the party that can win and govern well. And that will include raising taxes on people. Like that is the. That is the premise. They just don't buy it. Because every. In their mind, every liberal city is San Francisco, but some liberal cities are Boston. Some cities are able to do this a lot better.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, I think Mayor Wilhelm does also loom large over this because. And I. But I also sense that Mamdani is aware of that because as he. His. His communications director told us on election night that it's really important for them to talk about tangibles and deliverables instead of values or actually, Mom, Donnie told us, instead of values and ideas. And that juxtaposition that it has to be about it sort of reminds me what you were saying on the abundance front. It's like about putting things in front of people and making the social compact more obvious so that it doesn't look like somebody's just talking about the police being racist and then crime goes up. You want people talking about the city being too expensive and having their rent go down or their rent be frozen or something like that. It just seems that he's actually sort of very aware of that dynamic too.

[Sagar Enjeti]

He is. And there are people we haven't been talking about who view this in a different way. Because the left is pretty global in its thinking. As you guys know, the right hears socialism and it thinks Pol Pot. And the left says here socialism at things like Oslo or Stockholm or Copenhagen. Or something. And what you've seen in the last 48 hours is other elements of the right not even going beyond what Ackman's saying and saying. This is Charlie Kirk, this is Matt Walsh, this is Ogles to an extent saying well this is what happens when you let in immigrants and they turn the city into a third world hellhole. And their premise is that is going beyond the economic argument and saying that well, pluralism and mass immigration doesn't work and he's going to be the mayor of mass immigration. That'll rest wreck the city. He wants to bring his anti colonial values from Uganda and and India and wreck the country. I've noticed I bring that up not because Ackman's saying that. It's because there really is this cacophony of reasons not to trust Mamdani. And you've seen also this comparison to London which is very popular. JD Vanceu made made this joke I think just once. But you've seen the clip a bunch of times saying, you know, what's the first Islamist nuclear power going to be? It might be the UK because there are all these Muslims living in the UK and there's a Muslim mayor of London. But again I've been to London fairly recently. There are things that could improve but people pay a lot to live there. It has congestion pricing, it has some homelessness. It has a lot of things where if you copied them in American City you'd say that's working really well and it's worth paying for all that. So that is the challenge is part of. You're right though. The de Blasio experience loomed. But the first term of de Blasio people were pretty happy with it was the criminal justice reform movement. And this is other big topics, not to get too much into it but the intersection of criminal justice reform happening just when Covid happened, how much of the rise in crime was people shutting down and social cohesion breaking down? How much of it was bail reform and things like that did not run. On his 2020 positions about defunding the police. He said that he's just going to hire more, more people to make the city safer without fighting with the end of nypd, without shrinking it. That is important too. I want to see how that is litigated because right now there is Democrats like Kirsten Gillibrand who have not endorsed him yet are saying they want to talk to him. And I honestly have. I have an open mind about that. I want to see as he does these interviews, he's very accessible what he says he might tack in if he's, if he, if he no longer says, hey, I'm going to, I'm going to be Marin. We're actually not going to touch the nypd. We're just going to hire more public safety officials. Is that offensive to Bill Ackman? Do they not trust it? Because that's actually what's been happening in places like Philadelphia and Boston, San Diego. There's other places where Democrats run things, but you don't hear nightmare stories about how scary they are.

[Unknown Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

I mean, Bill Ackman and the CNBC crew there. There's nothing that Zoran is going to say that's going to satisfy them. You know, I mean, admin has the twin concerns of like, oh my God, he's an anti Semite and it's going to be Sharia law. And also that, you know, God forbid that people get taxed a little bit more and buses are free, you know, like he has.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

And there's no amount of assuaging of those types that is going to ultimately satisfy them. And I don't even know that that would benefit Zoran because the fact of their freak out, in my opinion, benefits him. It proves that he's uncomfortable for them. But you brought up Kirsten Gillibrand. I want to get your reaction. I'm sure you listen to her on this radio show. I'm just to play a piece of it because it's like six minutes long, but you'll, you'll get a sense. So a caller calls into Brian Lehrer's radio show and is asking about, you know, oh my God, isn't Zoron anti Semitic? And what's your response to this? And Senator Kirsten Gillibrand is on the show and interestingly, Lair is actually trying to somewhat defend Zoran, who he spoke with and had asked some of these questions too. And the specific thing they start getting hung up on was Zorn's explanation of why he won't condemn the phrase globalize the Intifada. And I'm gonna pick up here. You can hear, I think this part that I'm about to press play on is where Larry is trying to say, you know, I, I understand this is why people are concerned. But he, this is also something that he hasn't himself personally said. So let me go ahead and, and see if we can start this here.

[Kirsten Gillibrand]

That he has supported Hamas or has supported violence, as that caller was asserting. Can you.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Again, Brian, I don't have all the data, information, and I've never sat down with Mr. Mamdani. So I've asked to have that meeting. I'm going to have that meeting. We will talk through all these things. He can tell me his views of the world, and I can learn them firsthand. I think the reference that I had read was global Intifada specifically, which is. Has very serious meanings that are violent and destructive.

[Kirsten Gillibrand]

So, which he says, and I pressed him on this, on the show on Monday, but which he says are not calls for violence because intifada is a much broader term involving all kinds of uprisings and resistance and things like that. So I just want to be clear about how at least he defines it. And maybe he needs to be more clear. I don't mean this. I don't mean that. He did say here that he didn't want to be the word police, even as the mayor of New York if he's elected. But I do also want to be clear that he said he does not support violent intifada. Is that fair?

[Emily Jashinsky]

So, Brian, I didn't hear your exchange with him, but if I was speaking to him directly, I would simply say that is not how the words are received, and it doesn't matter what meaning you have in your brain. It is not how the word is received. And when you use a word like intifada to many Jewish Americans and Jewish New Yorkers, that means you are permissive for violence against Jews. It is a serious word. It is a word that has taken deep meaning. It has been used for wars across time and violence and destruction and slaughter and murder against the Jews. It is a harmful, hurtful, inappropriate word for anyone who wants to represent a city as diverse as New York City with 8 million people. And I would be very specific in these words, and I would say you may not use them again if you expect to represent everyone ever again because they are received as hateful and divisive and harmful, and that's it. So I appreciate that he told you he didn't mean that, and that's great.

[Kirsten Gillibrand]

That's also clarifier. He was clarifying that he never said globalize the intifada. He was asked in an interview if he would denounce the phrase globalize the intifada. And then that led to the kind of conversation, you know, that you were just referring to. But. But that he was never out there saying globalize the intifada. He was asked about other people who used it. So just. Just to be precise about. About what happened there. Yes.

[Emily Jashinsky]

Well, as a leader of a city as diverse as New York City, with 8 million people as the largest Jewish population in the country, we should denounce it. And that's it, period. And you can't celebrate it. You can't value it. You can't lift it up. And that is what. That is the challenge that Jewish New Yorkers have had certainly since October 6th. It is, excuse me, October 7th. It is exactly what they have felt. It is why Jewish students in our universities have felt unsafe. It is why Jewish students have felt that their schools did not have their back and cared about them or their learning. Because the people doing these protests use words that have meanings that are far more violent and horrific than they may have intended. But when you.

[Unknown Host]

So anyway, we get the sense of what Gillibrand is up to there. David, what is your reaction to Kirsten Gillibrand? You know, picking up on this is one of the things that Cuomo and Whitney Tilson and all sorts of others in the primary tried to, you know, to corner Zoran on and to make him unacceptable because he's supposedly anti Semite who, you know, supports violence against Jewish people. Clearly, in the primary context, this did not work. And in fact, I think it's possible actually, in order to his benefit, because while on the debate stage, all the other candidates were clamoring for saying how quickly they would run to this or that foreign country, more most prominently Israel. He says, I'm going to be the mayor who stays here in New York and delivers for people, including Jewish people here in the city.

[Sagar Enjeti]

A couple of things about that interview, I think a different part. She says she doesn't want to be the word police, but being mayor, sometimes you have to be the word police. That's not crazy. So when I heard that Bulwark interview, which is where this answer came from, remind me a little bit of Bernie Sanders winning the Nevada caucuses. And then Anderson Cooper asked him to about Cuba, not a top voting issue for Democrats. And Sanders is not backing down. And you do have that choice, right, as politicians to not back down. And generally, Mamdani has not backed down. His answer on should Israel exist as a Jewish state? Has been. It should exist as a Democratic state with rights for everybody. That is no, that is. It shouldn't be what it is right now. It should change its constitution, basically. And that shocked people because you're usually not. You can't say that New York and win an election. Then he won an election. So. So you're right that Democratic voters did not see this as a litmus test worth voting against him on. That is a factor in this race that has huge implications for including many Jewish voters. Including. Well, yeah, look at the neighborhoods he won. And so the idea that. And this is very, very prominent story. You go to the neighborhood, you ask people if they're scared. They say they're scared. What's the context, though? Six months of Donald Trump being president and. And Columbia University having money pulled away from it, people being deported because they criticize Israel and they have visas. The context changed in the last six months. It went from I feel unsafe because of this rhetoric to it looks like I'm not allowed to criticize this country anymore. And I'm not saying these are different people we're talking about who had these reactions. But I think, one, Mamdani benefited from that. But two, he has. Is he going to choose just to not say some things that, beyond losing votes, would make people worried? And he said this in other points in his victory speech. He sort of needs to stop. He needs to speak for everybody. Even if he didn't vote for him, how is he going to interpret that? Does that mean he's going to piss off some people who voted for him by not renouncing bds, which he has not renounced. He supports bds, but not using some of these phrases. You don't want to be in a denouncement Olympics, which sometimes happens in campaigns where you're asked to announce this statement, that statement, this endorser says something crazy. Did you denounce it? But again, he said in November 2020 on Twitter, Queer liberation means defund the police. And he's not running around. Every TV show is saying, yes, I still mean that. Queer liberation means defund the police. So I think he's going to be consistent as a progressive who thinks that Israel's, one, committing a genocide, two, should have its government changed constitutionally, three, in the meantime, should be boycotted. He believes those things. There might be a mayor of New York who believes those things, which is unprecedented. But how did he express it? That's a question. The only other thing I'd say is that the interview is not very long, the Bulwark interview. And if Democrats, I think, are risking a backlash, that will help Moundani if they rush in and repeat what someone else said about him and don't look at what he said. Adams has already been doing this. Adams has just accused him of saying things he never said, supporting Hamas, being an anti Semite. And Adams is not just generally not very honest. But there is a. Well, yeah, there is a risk. There is a risk, though, if. If Maudani is called out for something he said that's a problem. But if he's slandered, we've already seen Democrats are pretty sympathetic to that and they're a little bit tired. Not all of them, but let's say 44 of New York are a little bit tired of being told, you might lose your job, we'll deport you, we'll shame you if you criticize what Israel's doing. Like, that is that doesn't feel very American to people. Even, even if they, even if they agree with, with like 80 of what Israel's doing.

[Unknown Host]

Oh, Emily, we lost you. We're not hearing you here. Let me pull up for you. David, I wanted to get your reaction to Kathy Hochul getting asked about Zoron so you can talk about some of, you know, how the, the powers that be in New York are responding. And they don't seem to be responding with a vote blue, no matter who message here. They seem very much to be weighing their options, which again is, it's extraordinary. I mean, this guy, one, he didn't, it wasn't a squeaker. He won overwhelmingly. Democratic voters said, this is the person who we would like to see. Normally that's the end of the story in terms of the Democratic Party supports the nominee, and that does not seem to be the end of the story here. So let's take a listen to this. Will you support his candidacy and will you back him?

[Jennifer Griffin]

You know, the election's just completed. I had a chance to call and congratulate him on the Tuesday's primary and look forward to having a conversation. Obviously, there's areas of different in our positions, but I also think we have those conversations in the meantime, I really am not focused on the politics. We're six months away from inauguration date and that will determine who I'm working with for the next four years. And that's important, what I'm doing, affordability and making New York City safe and making the state safe. So that's my primary objective right now.

[Jana Kramer]

So are you skeptical then of him and the, and then also the will of New York City voters, New York Democratic primary voters?

[Unknown Host]

Do you think that their choice is not valid?

[Sagar Enjeti]

No.

[Jennifer Griffin]

I don't see how you can possibly conclude that from what I just said. I said that I'm going to be having conversations. I want to find out your positions on specific issues. But in the meantime, I'm working closely with Eric Adams, who is the mayor, who we have a lot of work to do to get through a crisis right now. He has had a lot of people in our city under siege with excessive temperatures. We have to keep making sure our subways are safe, building more housing on a city of yes, which we have the finish line. So as much as there's a lot of people perhaps even in this room who are very focused on the politics, I don't have the luxury. I focus on governing and delivering for New Yorkers and working with the people that are in government today.

[Unknown Host]

What do you make of this, Dave? And how do you think Democrats ultimately, I mean you have seen so like Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer said, said basically congratulations, we'll meet with you, but non committal. You saw Jerry Nadler come out and you know, directly support Zoran. You actually saw Bill Clinton come out and basically say good luck in November, which you know, seems to be a direct support even though Clinton was behind Cuomo in the primary. Where do you think that this is going? Are they going to try to pull basically another India Walton, who was the lefty candidate in Buffalo who knocked down a long time corruption corrupt incumbent and then he came back and was able to defeat her in the fall with a coalition of establishment Democrats, sort of like corporate Democrats and Republicans.

[Krystal Ball]

Coalition of the willing.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, yeah, I covered that race and honestly that was, that was no offense to Buffalo, but it's. Buffalo is not the media center of the world. And also Walton, the way that they went after Walton and beat her, the Democrats who ended up beating her was just going after her poverty, basically just unpaid, unpaid taxes than she later paid, stuff like that. And it was a lower profile race so they could do it with Zoran. We just talked about all the flailing they're doing and Adams has done some of this solving a trust fund baby. They've not figured out an effective line. But if you're a national Democrat, what is the risk of something this high profile ending with Democrats betraying the Democratic nominee? How does that play out in two years, four years? Look at how much anger Bernie Sanders engenders just for saying he was recruiting candidates to run for office, Democrats or independents. And he would tell anybody he told me. But anybody who asked him, he meant independents in like a place where Democrats can't win. He did not mean I'm recruiting people to run against them. But you saw the knee jerk. How dare he do this? He's not a real Democrat. Reaction. The party has very little credibility left and I might be overstating it by saying very little if it looks like it is undermining a duly nominated Democratic candidate, it then it will be hurt in ways that we can't even predict right now. And I think that's where Clinton's coming from, what Hochul's doing, because Hochul did. Hochul, if I recall, incorrectly endorsed Walton but didn't do anything for her. If she does that in, in this race. Well, the complication is that she's got a challenger, Attendo Delgado, who is very pro Zoran and endorsed him already and says she should. What she's doing right now, I was giving some giving space I suppose, for the Gillibrands and vocals. If they do want to have conversations with him and say, look, this is what happened with Trump in 2016. Trump wins the nomination and there are a lot of people who didn't support Trump who get meetings with him and say, hey, I represent 10 million pro life voters. You should really be doing this and say this now and you should recant this interview answer you gave. And he did. This is the thing that actually Zoran learned a lot from having talked to him in the campaign, that it's not like Trump got away with everything. Trump actually did change some of his rhetoric, change some of his answers moderate. And so if they're doing that, I feel like they can get away with that. If they, if they undercut him, it will hurt the party long term. What would Democrats prefer? Would they prefer this situation or one where they can never win the Senate ever again? Because there's a third party left wing organization that gets 15% of the vote vote like that is. That is the risk right now. They have progressives in the tent. And the best situation, I'm not telling what to do, but the best situation for them clearly is Zoran Mamdani winning the election, being successful. And in four years, people saying that wasn't so bad for the party. That absolutely makes sense for some donors in the party. They don't want that. And, and that's complicated. But if you're elected Democrat and you want Democrats to win elections, your, your choices are sabotage him and sabotage yourself or try to just get him to move in your direction so you're both successful.

[Krystal Ball]

It's been interesting to see the pod bros. I shouldn't use that. It's kind of derogatory.

[Unknown Host]

But like we've decided, bros is a slur now. Is that what it is? Yeah.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Pfeiffer and others being like, well, I just think it diminishes podcasting, actually. Not, not Bros. To be. To be honest. But it. They have sort of started saying, what the hell is the Democratic Party doing in its reaction to Zoran? And that's been, I guess, Dave, I'm just curious if you think that's indicative of where other sort of younger establishment Democrats are going to.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I've been careful with this. I was joking with an editor that I probably caused myself traffic because I think my headline said that Democrats were keeping a respectful distance. And then some people said Democrats are in disarray and pointing fingers. And we quoted the same people. There are some suburban Democratic members of Congress who are not endorsing Mamdani. I don't think Tom Suozzi ever will, for example, even debate what I just said. Swazi has to win a seat. That's a tiny bit of Queens and mostly Nassau County. Pat Ryan in Westchester county hasn't said something the Mamdani. My understanding, Madame, I haven't talked to. I talked to him last night about this is yes, he's going to give some people some room to not get on board with everything, which is what, again, Donald Trump did in 2016. He is not demanding. Every Democrat anywhere around the country says, I love Zora Mandani. He's the future of the party. I agree with him on everything that he's not doing that. It's actually us in the media who are asking Democrats if they agree. And the answers we're getting are, I guess they fit into two camps. One is or three. One is just pure excitement, like aoc. Yes, this is the way the party should go. Or Bernie. One is Alyssa Slotkin did this. I was talking to Abigail Spanberger yesterday and she did this is. Well, voters want things to be affordable. We learned in November. We're learning that now, which is a very diplomatic way. I think that's where most Democrats will end up is I don't agree with him on everything, but if somebody like him can win, this is what they say about Trump, right? Like Trump's victory proves that people are worried about some of these issues and we need to. We need to figure that out. That is the diplomatic way to do it. The least diplomatic is the Swazi way of I can't support this guy. And that camp is pretty small. So right now they're still on the Hill. They're gonna be chased around, ask if they endorse them or not. I think that'll last for two or three more days. It might pop up again. Because, look, I mentioned New York as the media capital world, but specifically New York Post is there and Fox News is there and the New York Post can make anything famous. So there will be news cycles where Zoron does something or something is revealed and Democrats are asked about it. But I don't think that there'll be other stories that happen. I think the Democrats who are safest will be the ones who have some heuristic that says, yeah, I see why he's winning and people are angry, but I don't agree with him on xyz. That's where I think most of them are ending up, because that's my conversation so far and that's what makes the most sense.

[Unknown Host]

Gotcha. All right, Dave Weigel, thank you so much for your reporting and for jumping on with us this morning. Always a pleasure to see you sir.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Thank you. No, Great to do it the best.

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Meaningful beauty.

[Unknown Host]

Confidence is beautiful. Learn [e-mail] Interesting perspective from him about where the Democrats are right now. Basically, like, most of them are going to get to the Slotkin answer of like, well, he ran on affordability and that's what we need to, to focus on. So, so at the same time, you've got, you know, you do have these concerns. You still have Cuomo hanging out there. You got Eric Adams obviously on the ballot line. Apparently there was some effort to try to pressure Curtis Sliwa, who's the Republican nominee, to take some Trump administration job. He has ruled that out quite definitively in a very Curtis Lewis kind of a way, with rhetorical flourish. So. So in any case, you're not gonna boss curse Curtis. But I think, I think, think probably the most important point is that if Democrats really do try to rat him or even appear to try to rat him, then it is devastating for them because here you have them having just lost this election and they're all running around, oh, we need someone who's younger and has ideas and that the bros are into and, you know, can win back young people and, you know, create new energy in the party. And then he shows up and they're like, nope, we want Andrew Cuomo over the sky.

[Sagar Enjeti]

I.

[Unknown Host]

It's crazy. And it comes at a time when Democratic leadership is already deeply unpopular with their own base. And this is what's so different. This, that's what makes this moment so different, even from the Bernie moments, from the AOC moment is @ that time, most of the Democratic base was still enamored with Democratic leadership. That is not the case anymore. So, you know, which is part of why Zoran's able to succeed. Even though you had all of the establishment lining up behind Cuomo and saying, you can't possibly elect this guy, he's an anti Semite, he's a radical, etc, people didn't listen and they didn't care because those leaders are now not only failed in the eyes of the broader public, but they're failed specifically in the eyes of the Democratic base.

[Krystal Ball]

And into all of this chaos, a hero emerges.

[Sagar Enjeti]

We utilize the letter F. We utilize.

[Krystal Ball]

The letter F for faith.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Our opponents use the letter F for profanity. So we need to stay focused. No distractions and grind. Focus. No distractions and grind. Focus, no distractions and grind.

[Krystal Ball]

We're straight ahead.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Crystal.

[Unknown Host]

Do you remember when he won all the Ezra Klein's and all the like, all the centrists who were like, this guy's gonna be a national figure. And now he literally has the lowest approval rating in New York City mayoral history.

[Krystal Ball]

That's.

[Unknown Host]

That's what's happened with him.

[Krystal Ball]

And yet focus, no distractions and grind could push him to re election. In all seriousness, no, but. But actually it could because it depends on how freaked out they're able to make people about Zoron Momdani and they're going to try able to get Bill Ackman into the race. It's just like, man, like, if you don't like Zohar Momdani in the city right now, you are absolutely cooked because you have Eric Adams out there chanting focus, no distractions and grind in front of a crowd of boomers, seemingly like it's.

[Unknown Host]

And it's just wild the mask off with the. The oligarchs because Ackman is literally tweeting out things like I'm in group chats where we could raise a hundred mil, you know, hundreds of millions of dol for anyone who's willing to get in this race. It's like, wow, they truly think they can just buy any seat in the country up to and including the presidency, by the way, with Elon Musk. And they're not ashamed of it. Like he has no salvators. Just put that out to the world of like, this guy wants to make the buses free and make it, you know, your rent cheaper. God, we can't have that. God forbid. So we're willing to spend hundreds of millions of dollars and I'm in the group tax where we're trying to control everything behind the scenes. You know, again, like that is part of the reason why so many people voted for Zoron because he represents a repudiation of that type of politics that Ackman is just openly professing to, you know, to believe in and be a part of.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, they've painted themselves into a corner and It's a catch 22 for them. You know, you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. You're damned if you. From their perspective, if you embrace Zoron because they don't believe in a lot of the things that he believes in. So that's just even the like, ideological component, not even the political component. But if you don't, then you look like you are trying to thwart. Like as establishment Democrats, you're trying to thwart the will of the voters. And so you really don't have any good options. Like if you organize an alternative candidate, it looks completely astroturfed. It looks like what they did to Bernie and Zoran now benefits from this interesting scenario that the establishment has found itself in where they, you know, if they, if they try to beat him with some other mechanism, whether that's a third party candidate pouring tons of money behind like Eric Adams or Curtis Lewa, it has the effect of proving his point.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah, Hot Commie Summer. That's what their Bloomberg's headline is. Wall Street's freaking out over Hot Commie Summer, aren't we? Incredible stuff. Stuff. Incredible stuff. Well, this is a good. Well, we're gonna go ahead and transition to the premium show at this point, guys. Thank you to all of you guys for watching. And if you want to watch the full show on Fridays, make sure to subscribe@breaking points.com in the portion that's paywalled, we're going to talk about the Bezos wedding. We're going to talk about Teal getting asked if he's anti correct, the Antichrist. I'm very interested. Emily's done a deep dive on this one, so I'm super excited to get her take on that. And we got a few other clips that I, I wanted us to react to as well, including we didn't get to Joy Reid on cnn Saga and I are supposed to talk to it yesterday. Talk about it yesterday. We didn't get to that. So I want to try to get to that as well. In any case, thank you guys so much for watching. And the premium portion is going to start right now.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Hey, if you like that video, hit the like button or leave a comment below. It really helps get the show to more people.

[Unknown Host]

And if you'd like to get the full show ad free and in your inbox box every morning, you can sign [e-mail] that's right, get the full show.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Help support the future of independent media@breaking.

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