7/11/25: Flagrant Pod TURNS on Trump, Dersh Says Epstein COVERUP, Billionaires PLOT Against Zohran & MORE Free Audio Description:

Summary

Podcast Summary: Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar

Episode Title: 7/11/25: Flagrant Pod TURNS on Trump, Dersh Says Epstein COVERUP, Billionaires PLOT Against Zohran & MORE
Hosts: Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti
Release Date: July 11, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar, hosts Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti delve into a multitude of pressing political issues, ranging from the ongoing Epstein cover-up to recent tariff announcements and internal dynamics within the Democratic Party. The discussion also touches on controversial incidents involving public figures and explores the future trajectory of independent media.

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Epstein Cover-Up and the Flagrant Pod's Reaction

The episode opens with a critical examination of the Epstein case, highlighting the frustration with the perceived lack of disclosures and the closure of related investigations. The hosts critique the responses from prominent figures and media outlets.

• Andrew Schultz's Critique: At [06:22], Schultz expresses outrage over the handling of the Epstein files:
  “And people are talking about this guy, this creep. So we're stupid. We're the fucking idiots.”

• Dan Bongino's Perspective: At [07:01], Bongino poses a stark choice:
  “One or two things in my mind is a positive possible, one, you're covering it up, or two, nothing really happened and you exploited the rape of thousands of children to get your man elected.”

Krystal and Saagar discuss how these revelations have impacted public perception, especially among younger voters who may view these issues as a gateway into politics.

Trump's Actions and Public Perception

The hosts analyze recent actions by former President Donald Trump, particularly focusing on his public statements denying involvement in the Epstein case and the resulting backlash.

• Trump's Denial: At [10:48], Krystal reflects on Trump's evasive responses:
  “Whenever you asked about him about it, he would get very squirrely... Now suddenly people started to go like, oh, you know, he did have all of these associations...”

• Akash's Commentary: At [12:59], Akash adds:
  “Pam Bondi has been uniquely ridiculous throughout this. But, yes, agreed, agreed. She is being scapegoated.”

The discussion highlights the disconnect between Trump's perception among his base and the broader public's growing awareness of his associations with Epstein.

Immigration Policies and the Big Beautiful Bill

A significant portion of the episode focuses on the controversial "Big Beautiful Bill," scrutinizing its implications on immigration and the administration's approach to enforcement.

• Policy Critique: At [25:37], Krystal comments on the impracticality of mass deportations:
  “Preposterous. And then to the point of... the idea that there was this mass, like millions of criminals that they're going to be able to deport. Preposterous.”

• Akash's Insights: At [32:23], Akash explains the administration's strategy:
  “They are... interpreting Stephen Miller’s directives to prioritize numbers over actual criminal status.”

Krystal and Saagar debate the effectiveness and humanitarian implications of the bill, questioning whether it genuinely addresses the issues or merely serves as a numbers game.

Democratic Party Dynamics and Dean Phillips

The episode examines internal conflicts within the Democratic Party, particularly focusing on Dean Phillips' stance and its repercussions.

• Dean Phillips on Party Diversity: At [35:06], Dean Phillips states:
  “When you have socialists, when you have socialists in the Democratic Party... there is no room for both him and Zoran.”

• Krystal's Analysis: At [37:55], Krystal criticizes Phillips' shift:
  “He realized that the opening was to the left... his commitment to Israel... has really kind of driven an increasing, like, right wing shift from Dean Phillips.”

The discussion underscores the challenges the Democratic Party faces in balancing diverse ideological perspectives and the potential alienation of moderate voters.

Tariffs on Canada and Other Countries

The hosts address recent tariff announcements, questioning their economic rationale and potential impact.

• Tariff Implementation: At [47:00], Krystal outlines the new tariffs:
  “Starting August 1st, we're going to charge Canada a tariff of 35% on Canadian products sent into the US...”

• Economic Impact Discussion: At [48:29], Saagar critiques the lack of tangible benefits:
  “But what are we getting out of this? Nothing.”

Krystal and Saagar express skepticism regarding the administration's tariff strategy, suggesting it may ultimately harm working-class Americans without delivering the promised economic gains.

The Case of Billionaire Bill Ackman at the Tennis Match

A controversial incident involving billionaire Bill Ackman’s attempt to participate in a professional tennis match is dissected, revealing deeper insights into the behavior of the ultra-wealthy.

• Incident Overview: At [04:27], Krystal narrates Ackman's embarrassing participation:
  “Billionaires like Bill Ackman... paid his way into a pro tennis match... completely humiliated.”

• Hosts' Reactions: Krystal and Saagar express fascination and horror at Ackman's actions, questioning the disconnect between his wealth and social comportment.

This segment serves as a microcosm of the broader critique of billionaire influence and entitlement in politics and society.

Candidate Zoran and Future Political Prospects

The discussion shifts to emerging political figures, particularly focusing on candidate Zoran, exploring his potential impact and the challenges he faces within the current political landscape.

• Support for Zoran: At [33:07], Krystal praises Zoran's alignment with American values:
  “Zoran feels American. He feels New York. That's the way that he talks. That's the way that he looks.”

• Akash's Endorsement: At [37:46], Akash emphasizes Zoran's appeal:
  “Zoran is actually a very interesting study in the modern American left... he feels like an American character.”

Krystal and Saagar debate the viability of Zoran's candidacy, considering both internal party dynamics and the broader electorate's sentiments.

Conclusions

In wrapping up the episode, Krystal and Saagar reiterate the complexities facing the American political landscape. From the persistent Epstein cover-up to the fracturing within major political parties and the misguided economic policies, the hosts emphasize the need for transparent, accountable leadership and a shift towards policies that genuinely address the populace's needs.

They also highlight the critical role of independent media in holding the powerful accountable, urging listeners to become members to support the future of such journalism.

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Notable Quotes:

1. Andrew Schultz on Epstein Cover-Up:

   • “Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? We have Texas. We have all of the things. And people are talking about this guy, this creep. So we're stupid. We're the fucking idiots.” [06:22]

2. Dan Bongino on Trump's Election Strategy:

   • “One or two things in my mind is a positive possible... you exploited the rape of thousands of children to get your man elected.” [07:28]

3. Dean Phillips on Party Diversity:

   • “But when you have socialists, when you have socialists in the Democratic Party... there is no room for both him and Zoran.” [35:06]

4. Krystal on Zoran’s Political Identity:

   • “Zoran feels American. He feels New York. That's the way that he talks. That's the way that he looks.” [33:07]

5. Saagar on Tariff Effectiveness:

   • “But what are we getting out of this? Nothing.” [48:29]

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For an in-depth analysis and access to the full discussions, including premium segments, please visit BreakingPoints.com and consider becoming a member.

Transcript

[Crystal Ball]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Sagar Enjeti]

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[Emily]

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[Crystal Ball]

[e-mail] we do whatever it takes to get you the in depth info on local schools you won't find anywhere else. Things like student teacher ratio, test scores and school programs.

[Ryan]

And sometimes that requires attending school recitals.

[Crystal Ball]

So many recitals.

[Ryan]

That's my son.

[Crystal Ball]

Isn't he terrific?

[Akash]

Yeah, a real prodigy.

[Ryan]

Homes.com we've done your homework. Hey guys. Sager and Crystal here.

[Crystal Ball]

Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.

[Ryan]

This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.

[Crystal Ball]

So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

[Ryan]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breaking points.com.

[Crystal Ball]

All right, guys, Happy Friday. Emily's working on some tech issues over there, so start this. Kick this off with just me and Sagar. How's it going, guys?

[Ryan]

Hello. Hello. How are you, everybody? It's good to see you on Friday here. We had a. We had a fun night with the baby, but we're still here for.

[Crystal Ball]

Oh, boy. You want to share some details?

[Ryan]

Oh, I mean, nothing that any newborn parents know. Yeah, a lot of screaming. There's a lot of crying. It's. It's all right, you know, it's like 1am Therapy sessions and other things that we have to deal with.

[Crystal Ball]

But it's just remember this phase doesn't last.

[Ryan]

Everyone says to everyone.

[Crystal Ball]

And then. I know another phase which will also be difficult in its own ways. But the just like endurance phase of no sleep is, you know, compared. It feels like it will last forever right now. I promise you, it doesn't last forever. All right, Emily, do we have you yet?

[Akash]

Let's say 1, 2, 3, 4.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

Yes. There she is. She's there.

[Crystal Ball]

There we go.

[Ryan]

Excellent.

[Akash]

I come to these things to hear about your lives, basically. So.

[Ryan]

Right, of course.

[Crystal Ball]

That's what everybody's here for.

[Akash]

We catch up on Friday.

[Crystal Ball]

We do miss having Ryan, though, because he always has something, some interesting nugget to drop on us. Always.

[Akash]

Yes. Like that. He's already 10 minutes late for a meeting. But Ryan's on his way to Ireland, so.

[Crystal Ball]

Yes.

[Ryan]

Oh, wow.

[Crystal Ball]

Safe travels to him.

[Ryan]

Yeah, safe travels, Ryan.

[Crystal Ball]

We have a bunch of stuff we are going to try to get to this morning, but I don't think we'll get to all of this. But we've got new Epstein stuff. In particular the Andrew Schultz and the flagrant pod reacting to the lack of Epstein, the lack of Epstein disclosures and closing of the case and a lot of interesting things there. Some. Some Trump regrets going on in that pod. So we'll dig into that. We've also got new tariffs announced. We've got new zoron freak out. We've got new stuff going on with Israel, with immigration. One thing I am bound and determined to get to, but it'll probably be in the premium half of the show is billionaire Bill Ackman apparently paid his way into a pro tennis match in which he was. Obviously he's. What is he, 59 years old? He's not a pro tennis player. Gets, of course, completely humiliated. The other players on the court, it was a doubles match. Are just sort of like tapping the ball to him so that it's not completely humiliating. Andy Roddick went off on his podcast and I'm just. I'm assessed. I enjoy watching tennis, so I'm interested in it from that angle. But, like, I am endlessly fascinated and horrified by the mind of the billionaire.

[Akash]

Don't you like golf too, Crystal? Like you, you have a high tolerance.

[Ryan]

I mean, yeah, but billionaires don't play in pro gol because they just attend the Masters. Right? You know, it's like this. It's certainly another thing. I mean, again, I don't watch a lot of tennis. I Used to, when I was a lot younger. But, you know, the idea that you're going to pay your way into playing some of, like, the top two or three hundred players in the world and then force them to, like, lower their level of playing, play just to accommodate your beliefs and then post, like, a long essay about how. How, like, what did he say? He was like, it was really good. Scariest things I've ever done. It's just. Just actually shocking, the level.

[Crystal Ball]

Completely shocking. Like, I mean, you know, I was like, a fairly high level. I played, you know, swam Division one. And the idea that. That, like, me at this age would get in the pool with someone who was even a Division 1, let alone like an Olympia, it's so preposterous. I just. I can't even wrap my head around why you would sign up for that level of public humiliation, which is exactly what he did. So, anyway, we could talk more about that later.

[Akash]

We have video and we have an essay.

[Ryan]

So we have video. We have essays.

[Crystal Ball]

We have Andy Roddick going off on. I mean, he was like, he was so offended because this was part of some, like, you know, hall of Fame matches, and he's obviously part of the hall of Fame because he was such an extraordinary American male tennis player. And so he just fel. Like, this was an absolute defiling of the sport that he cares so much about. So in any case, that will probably be in the premium portion. Let's go ahead and jump into some of these clips from the flagrant pod. So the first one, I think the first one I have here. Yeah. Is where they're specifically talking about the promise to release the Epstein files. And then now Trump being like, I can't believe you're even. Why are you even bringing this guy up like this creep? Why do you even care about this guy? Let me go ahead and play this.

[Andrew Schultz]

Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? We have Texas.

[Ryan]

We have this.

[Andrew Schultz]

We have all of the things. And people are talking about this guy, this creep. So we're stupid.

[Ryan]

Yeah, we're.

[Andrew Schultz]

We're the fucking idiots. Guys, that is. I think what is enraging people right now is it's insulting our intelligence. Like, obviously the intelligence community is trying to cover it up. Obviously, the Trump administration is trying to cover up. Something changed because they ran on this idea of exposing it all.

[Dan Bongino]

Yep, yep.

[Andrew Schultz]

All these guys had great ideas. Cockeyed cash. He was ready to tear it all down. He was ready to tear down the.

[Dan Bongino]

Entire FBI, shut down the Hoover building, day one, day one, then still stand.

[Andrew Schultz]

And Then he goes on Joe Rogan and he's like, listen, do you think if I had it, I wouldn't share it with you?

[Dan Bongino]

I do.

[Andrew Schultz]

Yeah, I do. I do believe that 100%. Especially when you're staring at me like this. Once you protect pedophiles, you are the most cockeyed person.

[Dan Bongino]

So one or two things in my mind is a positive possible, one, you're covering it up, or two, nothing really happened and you exploited the rape of thousands of children to get your man elected. So which one do you want here?

[Crystal Ball]

That is a very good point there at the end.

[Ryan]

I like it. I like it. And actually, I really, I want to. I'm sad that Ryan's not here because he had the best analysis for me, which was for a lot of people, specifically, like podcasts online. Like, you know, we can't ever determine, like, what percentage of the vote swung that way to. To Trump. But a lot of it was vibes based. And the vibe based was of the outsider exposing the insider. Right? And that's kind of how Kamala, how Biden, how the outsider campaign, regardless of whether you say their establishment or not, like, that's how it came off and read to a lot of people. And the Epstein story is kind of this vector where for many people, they're like, if you're gonna lie to me about this or if you're not going to talk about this, if you're not going to be honest about this, then there's all these other things that you are lying to me about. And so that's why, you know, Ben Shapiro recently was like, well, Epstein actually is, you know, like the lowest list of priorities for people. It's like, nobody's saying it's a priority. It's not like the number one thing, but it's to the extent to which you exploited it for your political ends. I mean, in Cash and Dan Bongino's case, they literally got rich talking about this stuff. So it's actually extra objectionable to me. But the reason why, I mean, I was listening to a Shane Gillis podcast this morning with my friend Matt McCusker. Same thing. They're like, guys like, this is the most thing ever. You know, they're like, oh, I guess he's, you know, totally innocent. Shane was like, maybe, you know, Trump is. It's like, it's obvious Trump is trying to cover something up. He's probably in the Epstein file. I mean, this is again, like, it is a vector of understanding the visceral, like, disgust of business as Usual and of Washington. You can critique that if you want to. I know Michael Tracy and others have. But regardless, you know, if you're going to sell something like this grand vision, you know, to the American public, you either have to deliver or if you're not going to deliver, you need an extremely transparent process instead of basically boils down to trust me, bro. And I do think it is an important like vibe, cultural based conversation around Donald Trump for a lot of the people out there for who this was their entree point into politics, which is definitely in the millions. I'm not going to sit here and claim it's, you know, the swing voter or, or any of that, but it was a useful understanding and heuristic. And Trump, you know, in that, in that, that clip, I think he's really not going to be able to live that down for a while because it's like you can't really come to another conclusion of like you're covering some shit up, man. Like you're covering some shit up. You just can't get away from that.

[Akash]

I think it was a real gateway drug to politics for Gen Z because the Epstein stuff was playing out in Covid and when TikTok was first starting to become extremely popular and the gatekeepers lost a lot of their power around the Epstein story. And so the, I agree with everything Sara just said and want to just add to it. The inverse here, here is that the, the implication if you are suddenly the Trump administration that is bumbling it in the most clumsy possible way. It is like a satire. The way Pam Bondi has screwed the story up, the way cash and like they just look ridiculous. So the inverse of that, it's, it's not only that they are or the outsiders coming in to expose the insiders, they are now horrible insiders. Right. So it's not just that like they're, they're covering up, it's that they're also now like completely complicit and really bad at it. Like.

[Crystal Ball]

Well, it's just, I mean, from my perspective too, there was always a weirdness in expecting that Trump was going to release the Epstein files because first of all, whenever you asked about him about it, he would get very squirrely, very squirrely. Back when he was in office the first time is when Epstein killed himself. And when he got asked about, hey, what do you think about Ghislaine Maxwell who's on trial right now? She's like, I wish her well.

[Akash]

So there's that double down on wishing her well.

[Crystal Ball]

There's a fact like, we know they were friends. We've got pictures of them together. We have, like, he was on the flight multiple times. Epstein says they were besties for a long time. Like, there are a lot of entanglement, entanglements there just with him, let alone with members of his administration. You were talking about Bill Barr and his dad given Jeffrey Epstein his first job at this private school, even though he's, like, wildly unqualified. There's Alex Acosta who negotiated, like, signed off on the sweetheart deal down in Florida. Now you got Pam Bondi, who also was implicated down in Florida. So, like, to me, it was always preposterous, and it was always. There was such a giant blind spot on Epstein where Trump was concerned, because all the fixation would be on Bill Clinton, which I'm happy to say, like, yes, he's also implicated here as well, and had the connections and Bill Gates and all these people, too. But there was just like a willing blindness that Trump had anything, any intermingling with this circle whatsoever. And so now that he has not only said, okay, well, there's nothing to see here, and, you know, he definitely killed himself, and here's the tapes and we're closing all the cases into Prince Andrew and everything else. This is done deal. Nothing to see here. Now suddenly people started to go like, oh, you know, he did have all of these associations with this dude, as it turns out. So the, the sort of, the eyes are opening. There's a bit of, a little bit of an awakening to what's going on here now in terms of the MAGA base. They'll find a way to forgive and forget, as they always do. That's always happening. Alex Jones is saying, well, first of all, there's a scapegoating a Pam Bondi. Like, that's sort of the easiest the go to. Like, it's never Trump's fault. It's someone around him who's sabotaging him, blah, blah, blah.

[Akash]

The other, in fairness, Pam Bondi has been uniquely ridiculous throughout this. But, yes, agreed, agreed. She is being scapegoated. Yes.

[Crystal Ball]

Freelancing and doesn't have to, you know, it's preposterous. And then the other one, there's more convoluted. Like, Alex Jones has decided that Trump is using the Epstein files to blackmail the Deep State so that he can get his agenda done. It's like, okay, guys, sure, whatever.

[Ryan]

That's. That's vintage Qanon for those of us.

[Crystal Ball]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Ryan]

Aware. Yeah. I mean, I don't disagree with any of that, I think largely it was because like, oh well, he's willing to talk about it, so there must not be anything going on there. I'm agreeing that that's cope and I'm look, this is why again, the convo is important. Like you said, MAGA based MAGA base is going to forgive Trump for anything. But the point is, is about where is the culture going to go for a lot of people who are not MAGA in any way. I mean, if you look at Gen Z, right. Gen Z men in particular, I believe they voted for Trump. It's, it's a slightly higher percentage than at any other time before. I'm saying in terms of even in the popular vote. Well, I do think that these types of, you know, these types of stories were important. I don't think many of those men would consider themselves MAGA in any way. If anything, they're more of like an anti left voter or anti establishment left voter. They're very much up for grabs. Very much. People you've talked about this, Crystal, they were Bernie Bros or they were crypto Bernie Bros. In terms of they didn't know it yet at the time. They're probably too young. And if the Bernie movement had, let's say, stayed the course, they would have been Bernie guys, you know, if they had stayed with the course.

[Akash]

Bernie gentleman.

[Ryan]

Yeah, Bernie.

[Crystal Ball]

That's right. We know about the, the Bernie to Trump pipeline. Now we may be getting the Trump to Bernie pipeline or the DSA pipeline. Yeah. So also on that podcast, Andrew Schultz said, hey, listen, the only people that seem to me like they're really America first are the DSA types like Bernie and Zoran. Let's go ahead and take a listen to that.

[Andrew Schultz]

The only party right now that to me seems America first is the Democrat Socialist Party.

[Ryan]

Yep.

[Andrew Schultz]

Bernie is America First Mamdani and all his ideas that he will not be able to execute. And I frankly think many of them are not good ideas. But he is no doubt New York First. The policies seem to want to help people here. That's what I care about. If MAGA wants to take this America first thing.

[Crystal Ball]

I love the dramatic music they put with this.

[Ryan]

Yes. Yeah, that's, that's. They have a very good social media team. You do have to hand it to them.

[Andrew Schultz]

One lie, which is Epstein did not have a blackmail ring on all these very influential people. And by saying that that didn't happen, you have to tell a lot of other little lies, everyone.

[Ryan]

Yeah, that's exactly what I was saying. Yeah, yeah.

[Andrew Schultz]

And we're starting to see right through right now and it's just embarrassing.

[Crystal Ball]

There you go. So the reason, that's exactly it.

[Ryan]

That's a good clip because it also demonstrates the Israel issue. And this is why the Epstein and the Israel issue are both intertwined. Not only quite literally whenever it comes to Mossad, but if you look, I mean, again, I hate to bring it back to Shane and all these other guys, but they are cultural touchstones. Like, we have to be honest, Tires was one of the biggest shows in America. Shane is probably the second biggest comedian in the United States behind like Joe Rogan or Dave Chappelle, maybe even the biggest if you look at ticket sales and others. But for him, you know, I recently saw this clip where he was like celebrating whenever Trump would, you know, like, oh, we're going to not bomb Iran. But then when he was like, oh, and there Trump is back because he was saying Bibi should not be prosecuted. There is like a America first, like disgust at the obsession over Israel and the view that we are Israel's pawn, you know, in this great game. And so there's the policy level and then there's also the general vibe level where again, with Mamdani and I can't get away from this. The way that he was able to, to frame him, to frame the others as obsessed with Israel and issues that have nothing to do with New York is one of the most important things that has happened in politics. You talked about this recently, Crystal, about the defeat. I mean, this is the largest Jewish city in America, right? In New York. Is New York City the largest Jewish population or not even in America, in the whole world.

[Crystal Ball]

And so I think Tel Aviv is the only city in the world that has a larger population, Jewish population.

[Ryan]

Right. So outside of Tel Aviv, you know, to have him get elected on the back of I would stay here in New York. That is again, you know, look at the way the Andrew message and all of that, that's important. And maybe we'll talk about this later with, you know, like the news that like Joe Rogan is telling Trump not to do mass deportation and all of that is it's not policy based. It is a connection between the politician and the voter as. Yeah, we may have some disagreements. You know, I may, I may not even take all of some of the stuff you say so seriously, but I do think you're fighting for me. This is something again, why it's so crazy for Trump. This was Trump's genius of the 2016 campaign fighting for me. Insider case. Exactly. I was Like, I'm fighting for you, you know. What did he say? He's like, it's not they're coming for me, they're coming for you. Like, I forget going for me, they're coming for you. But that was, you know, that was visceral, actually for a lot of people. It was in a major part of a lot of the ads, especially after the Butler, you know, assassination attempts. And I think what they're doing is they're kind of seeding it away. You know, it's. I don't know if they said it in that clip. There might be another clip also where Schultz said this, but he was like, he. Because he doesn't just talk about Epstein and about Israel, he was talking about the big beautiful bill. Right. So all of these things compound on each other. Yeah, let's take a listen.

[Crystal Ball]

Let me play this and I'll get your reaction. All this on.

[Ryan]

Yeah, over again.

[Cash]

And this is my theory with, like, are politicians individually corrupt? Like, perhaps. But I wonder if just the throne is like, like the institution, the systems in place are inherently kind of corrupt. And so you can have people like Cash, who's probably like working in good faith while he's campaigning and like on the build up and like all this time as a, was a prosecutor for the state, like, he's like doing good work and then gets into role, gets read in on a brief and goes.

[Andrew Schultz]

All right, never mind. You know what I mean?

[Cash]

Like, I like, to me that seems like the most logical thing.

[Andrew Schultz]

I believe that about Trump. I believe when Trump, everything he campaigned on, I believe he wanted to do. And now he's doing the exact opposite thing.

[Dan Bongino]

I don't know what he's done. AI exactly to your point, if you tell me, I, it's easier for me to believe you. You wanted to do all these things if any of them were happening in the way that you said to that.

[Andrew Schultz]

Point, like, there'll be people that like, they'll DM me back. You see what, you see what your boy's doing? You voted for this. I'm like, I voted for none of this. He's doing the exact opposite of everything I voted for. Yeah, I want him to stop the wars, he's funding them. I want him to shrink spending, reduce the money, he's increasing it. It's like everything that he said he's going to do except sending immigrants back and now he's even flip flopped on that, which I kind of like. But he's like, oh, well, we kind of need the people working in restaurants and we need our farmers. It's like everything that he said that.

[Ryan]

He was going to do that he.

[Dan Bongino]

Can campaign, which was important. And I thought it was good you pressed him on it. Well, you got to start with the criminals in terms of deporting. Yeah, I don't think he's, I don't even know if the criminals are getting sent back. I know there's a lot of people with grits, people with green cards getting sent back. There's, there's people who aren't criminals getting sent back. I don't know if you're sending back the criminals first. You definitely don't know first. I don't be sending them back at all.

[Crystal Ball]

So what'd you think of that, Emily?

[Akash]

Well, I just have to say this contrasts so starkly with the mood of Republicans in Washington and should be an incredible dose of cold water because they are riding very high. They feel great about the big, beautiful bill having things like no tax on tips. They feel very good about it having no tax on overtime. And we could get into the nuances of those policies, but they feel like they're on the cusp of something in Gaza and that Trump has all of the momentum in the world. I really can't state enough how that represents the way MAGA feels right now and the way the Republican Party here feels right now. They have the wind at their backs. That's what they think. And meanwhile, the vibes are not anywhere near where they are. And Sagar, I actually think part of what you talked about with Tucker Carlson this week, you made a very interesting point that the conversation you both were having on his show about 10 years ago might not have been happening in any mainstream way whatsoever in the depth and with the level of scrutiny and skepticism of the establishment that exists. And I think the Trump, Trump world believes that they have way more control over the discourse and the vibes.

[Ryan]

That's a great point, you know, actually to pick up on that. It's true. I have been struck by the exact same feeling with people who are reaching out to me and be like, oh, why are you so down on Trump? And I was like, man, you guys just don't get it. Like, I was like, you guys really think that this big, beautiful bill thing and this Iran thing, they're like hoovering up all of this MAGA cope from Charlie Kirk's Twitter feed. And, you know, the irony is, if you actually listen closely, if you listen to the Charlie Kirk show and all that, there's not nearly as much of this whole trust Trump Thing. I actually think it's a kind of a similar dynamic to how Democrats had the Twitter is not real life problem. It's exactly. MAGA has become such a ubiquitous, like, force on Twitter, and there's like, all of these, like, blue check weird accounts that are just constantly posting, like, Trump wins, or any of these other things that they just really believe a lot of their own bs. Like you. They actually think the big beautiful bill is popular. It's shocking. I was like. I was like, I do not know what you guys are smoking. To think that there is any level of, like, the enthusiasm for this beyond, like, what they're happy about is they're like, look at our legislative victory. Like, we got this through the House. I'm like, bro, you're having a process conversation. No good about that. You know, it's like they care about what's in the bill.

[Crystal Ball]

They call that, like, epistemic closure where there's just no ability for other information to penetrate. Because it's.

[Ryan]

Great point.

[Crystal Ball]

You've decided that polls don't, like, reflect reality. So even though every poll is like, this thing is underwater 40 points with independence that's just completely discarded, they're like, yeah, but there was a cat turd poll that said whatever, you know, well, or.

[Akash]

Yeah, but when people see it in their pocketbooks, they'll be happy. Like, that's a lot of it.

[Crystal Ball]

That's the cope. And then, you know, because you have this, like, closed media ecosystem. And then Trump, you know, is not only a billionaire, but also is the President of the United States and has gone out of his way to have nothing but just, like, the most embarrassing sycophants around him. And yes, when he's certainly not getting any accurate information. And so. And, you know, I haven't heard. I don't know. I don't watch War Room every day, but I haven't heard Steve Bannon not every criticizing the big, beautiful bill since it passed.

[Ryan]

Since it passed. But, yeah, yeah.

[Crystal Ball]

In advance. He was sounding the alarm about, like, hey, a lot of MAGA are on Medicaid, and, hey, maybe we should, like, actually increase the taxes on the rich. Now this past. He's basically shut up, as far as I can tell. And so even though the messaging against this bill is so obvious of, like, they're taking your health care to fund a tax cut for the rich, even though that's such a layup, even Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer can figure it out. They're just so closed off from reality that they don't see it whatsoever. And then, you know, there's also just like a yellow quality to this administration. I don't know if Trump is planning to run again third term. I don't know what's going on there. But he's put the immigration bucket firmly in Stephen M's hands. You know, we'll talk maybe. I'm not sure if we're going to get to all this later or not. There was this Washington Post report that Joe Rogan was like, hey, you know, can we like, dial it back with the farm workers and the whatever. Well, there's footage today of a massive raid, including, like helicopters and militarized vehicles and whatever on a farm. So Stephen M. Got alligator.

[Ryan]

To be clear, it's a weed farm.

[Crystal Ball]

It's still farm.

[Ryan]

It's a marijuana farm.

[Crystal Ball]

California soccer. All right, but in any case, you've got alligator, Alcatraz, you've got see cut. Like, clearly he's just like, Stephen M. You do your thing over there. And there seems to not really be any care or concern even for whether any of this is going to be politically palatable to the masses. And so that's been, that's been my biggest surprise from Rogan Schultz and others is the discomfort with the immigration, with the deportation policy. Because you could say a lot of things about, like, so, for example, on the Ukraine war, Trump has definitely been different than was advertised. Right. You could say, you know, on cutting Medicaid, that's certainly different than advertised. Like, you know, there are things that I could say, okay, this is a little different than what was portrayed on the campaign trail. Even though I would say if you look at the first term, you could have known. But okay, put that aside, free speech there on immigration, like, yeah, they had massive signs.

[Ryan]

I agree with you.

[Crystal Ball]

How did you not know? And if you just knew, like the most basic facts about the immigrant population, the idea that there was this mass, like millions of criminals that they're going to be able to deport. Preposterous. And then to the point of Andrew, I'm not sure who was talking in that clip about like, Akash. Yeah, Akash was saying, like, I don't even know if they're shipping out criminals. He's actually right about that. There's new reporting about. It is much easier if you're just going for numbers. It's much easier to just go to the farm, go to the Home Depot, go to the garment factory, go to like wherever immigrants tend to cluster. And these are predominantly law abiding, you know, people who you know, have been in the country for some amount of time. It takes more resources and more time to track down the criminal gang member. So the directions have come from Stephen Miller directly and are being interpreted, you know, down to the agent level of like, you can't, you don't have time to pursue those cases because we just need to get the numbers up. Which means that actually far fewer criminal undocumented immigrants are being swept up and detained. It is much more of a numbers game of where can we go to get the largest number in the shortest amount of time?

[Ryan]

Well, I mean, I think that could have been true before the 175 billion. If it stands like, you know, we really are not like quite. I don't know yet. I read the same Nick Miroff Atlantic article that you're referencing there that was prior to the passage of the bill, which massively, of course, funds like cbp, ICE and all of these other places. But I do agree in terms of, I mean, this is part of the issue. Look, no offense, many of these people are my friends, but this is part of the problem with vibes based voting. Right. Because what you're really reacting is you're reacting against Biden border chaos and you're not taking a lot of this stuff actually literally and seriously. I did a monologue, you'll probably remember, Crystal, where I was like, hey, if you are voting on issues, I was like, here's how you should vote. And I can't stress enough how much people don't vote that way and then express surprise and shock whenever these things actually do happen. And this, you know, I mean, unfortunately, that's just like the way a lot of the country votes. That's how it was during George w. Bush, like, Mr. I would like to have a beer with them. And it's like, oh, well, that doesn't actually have anything to do with Iraq. But whatever. My point, I guess. Sorry, go ahead.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah, well, I was just here. There's one other piece I do want to say though, about the Democratic Party, which is, you know, we played that clip of him being like, hey, the people who seem like they're most America first is dsa. It really, I mean, it's, it's one data point, but it really does expose the foolishness of thinking it's going to be like Dean Phillips and Alyssa Slotkin.

[Ryan]

Yes.

[Crystal Ball]

Who bring back the bros, you know, and so this old model of politics of, oh, the way to win them back is to like go to the center and to be more corporate friendly, whatever. It's like, no, that's the polar opposite. Zoran Mandani won the bros overwhelmingly of all races and classes. Like, it was a generational shift. And the bros freaking love Zoron. Andrew liked Zoron. Like Rogan, the thing that he knew about Zoron was that moment on the debate stage where he was like, I'm going to stay here. I'm not going to Israel. So, you know, there's. I think there's something very important in that, even as you don't want to take, like, you know, the, the vibes of one particular podcast comedian. But it, when you look at the data that is emblematic of, like, if you actually win these, want to win these guys back, it's no mystery what you need, what direction you need to go in. And so instead of, like, fighting Zoron tooth and nail and trying to destroy him, maybe there's something to learn here from this person who is, like, uniquely charismatic and has a policy platform that people really were excited about and find him personally compelling.

[Ryan]

I also think it's a good, important lesson for the left. And this is something I was talking about yesterday with Zoron. But, you know, the right wing attacks right now are like, Zoron is a Muslim foreigner, right? And it's like, no, like, Zoron is actually a very interesting study in the modern American left. From wearing shalwar kameez and flipping off Christopher Columbus and saying defund the police, putting on don't forget in a medical glove, to like. And yeah, and to now wearing a suit and talking about New York. First going on the Abundance podcast and then also talking. And you know, recently he was like, yeah, sure, maybe I'll keep the New York City Police Commissioner. But like, to me, like, Zoron feels as if he's talking about New York, which is in itself the opposite of being some sort of, like, foreign interloper. Right. And so there is something that important, too. Again, if you do want to talk and take the Schultz thing and try and extrapolate it out into an American context, by the way, I mean, it's not just Schultz, it's Rogan. Like, you talked about Tucker and I, my conversation, we were both praising Zoron for his answer specifically about this. Well, what does it come down to be American? Like, it's actually about being and defending America as a concept and not some sort of, like, transnational, you know, leftism and liberalism, which at its worst of the Democratic Party back in the 2000, if, you know, to the extent that there was a vibes based shift against immigration. It was like, they're for you, they're for them and they're not for you. I still think a lot of that is very true. But, you know, if you do want us to overcome that message, you have to sell it in an American context and not in terms of feeling like sympathy for subgroups, DEI and foreigners as opposed to your own citizens. This again, is the vibe context to which Trump was able to win the immigration debate. I still don't think that the left, left or liberals have really like squared that circle. They can try, but. And that should be a project in my opinion of them for the next three and a half years, like if they do want to win. But the reason why I think that they're the strongest and why Akash specifically cited there about the green card example. And Emily, you noted free speech. This is why the Khalil case matters, right? Because you run on free speech and then you go to, you go to Europe, you know, and you, and you lecture them. And then we're banning guys for having memes of JD on their phone. We're like, what the fuck are we doing here? You know? And then same with the Khalil thing. We're like, yo, this guy and Ozturk are getting deported for co signing an op ed that nobody read about. BDS at Tufts University. You're like, this is insane. This is totally insane. I talked to you about that coffee shop case. I didn't have a chance to measure this on. Tucker, have I mentioned it here before that the DOJ is suing this coffee shop in Los Angeles because they, they had a drink or whatever that said that like quote unquote celebrated Hamas. And it's like, yo, this is like going after that baker who wouldn't bake that cake for gays. I was like, that's not, this is the same. You know, I'm like, by the way, I stand with the baker and I stand with a coffee.

[Akash]

Gay wedding.

[Ryan]

Yes, the gay wedding. Sorry. Yeah, gay. The gay wedding. But it's like, okay, like, let them do whatever the they want to do. You know, it's not a civil rights violation. This is ridiculous. And like that's, that is, you know, to the hijack point about free speech and specifically on immigration. I think that's a very, very useful one, you know, for a lot of these, for a lot of like the Democratic Party in the modern left to be able to point out, you know, that extent. Not to mention the economic piece of all of this where the big beautiful bill Comes in. So I. I've been thinking about this a lot, and. And that's why I think Zoron really is such an important candidate. And just the way the right is reacting to him, like, in the way that they're calling those, like, you know, Muslim, Marxist. It's like Islam is like, guys.

[Crystal Ball]

What? Yeah, I mean, it was just in the pride parade.

[Ryan]

It's so funny.

[Crystal Ball]

Exactly.

[Ryan]

It's so funny, too, to Indians because I'm like, yo, this is the prototypical liberal Shia. Like, to me, he's got a Sufi vibe. You know, his mom directed Kama Sutra. Like, spiritually, they're shit libs compared to even, like, conservative Hindus like us. So to call them Islamist is so, so funny to anybody who's, like, remotely in the know. Like, to me, he's an American character. And, yeah, if you're American leftist, you should model yourself off. Zoran. Zoron feels American. He feels New York. That's the way that he talks. That's the way that he looks. You know, he's studied. Obviously, he's very smart. Guys probably read a decent amount of history in the way that you actually actualize these moments. And that. That is very much. Man, it really is a damn shame he can't run for president. Like, if he won New York, he should just immediately announce, like, the next day, because I don't. I don't know if he would win, per se, but, like, damn, it would be interesting.

[Crystal Ball]

I think he would really have a show. He's just talented.

[Ryan]

Yeah, he's good. He's smart.

[Crystal Ball]

You know, he's got a political sense. Yeah, I like it.

[Akash]

And.

[Ryan]

But you, as people know, I don't. I don't like. I guarantee you Zoran and I would not get along. But. But it's like, I have to respect. I have no people.

[Crystal Ball]

Like, like, if you met him personally, I guarantee you actually would get along.

[Ryan]

I mean, we had him on.

[Akash]

He was great. Like, we were. He was easy to talk.

[Andrew Schultz]

There's a.

[Ryan]

There's. There's. There's cultural elements here that people aren't reading into.

[Crystal Ball]

I'm joking, but bringing his cultural baggage to the table here.

[Ryan]

Yeah, yeah. I just. I respect him as a politician.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah. Emily, we got. Go ahead with any of that, and then we can. We can actually skip ahead to a little bit of Zoran stuff and then come back to the Epstein stuff, because there is a bunch of. Let me. Let me play the saw of Dean Phillips. Why don't we do that? Saying that there's no room in the party for both him and Zoran, which is just like very self defeating on a lot of levels. So let me go ahead and let's take a listen to this.

[Ryan]

The current DNC chair, Ken Martin, fellow Minnesotan, used you as an example in saying the party is a big tent. They can welcome people from different ideological, geographic perspectives. I think he used the example of.

[Dan Bongino]

You couldn't win a race in Ilhan.

[Ryan]

Omar's district and she couldn't win a race in yours. Is there room for you and Mamdani in the Democratic Party?

[Dean Phillips]

You know, I think it's a fine question. I think it's one that many Republicans have been asking about whether there's room for traditional conservatives in a party now led by MAGA Republicans like Donald Trump. The answer ultimately, I think is no. You know, we do share many of the same values. In fact, most Americans share a lot of the same values. But as a political party, yes, you want diversity. You want some differences of opinion, perspective, life story, politics and experience. But when you have socialists, when you have socialists in the Democratic Party, I don't know how anybody could argue that that would be beneficial for the party or for the country. Therein lies the great challenge. Same thing on the right, Omar. Is MAGA the future of the Republican Party? If it is, there is going to be a new grand successful third party in America because the overwhelming majority of Americans want neither far left or far right politics. They want decency, they want common sense, competency and cooperation. And no party right now is elevating candidates who represent those ideals.

[Crystal Ball]

Emily, I saw people sharing this with the news clip about the time that Dean Phillips showed up at an event and literally no one was there. Combined with the video that Zoran just put out where he's trying to record one of his like, trademark videos and he's just being mobbed for like selfies, like, oh my God, I love you. I voted for you. You're the best. Let me get a selfie. Let me, you know, so any case, which direction? Democratic Party.

[Akash]

But I mean, so he is, he just said something that is so true. And I have to defend Dean Phillips on this point, which is that neither party is putting forward candidates that respond to what people actually want. This. I am sorry to do this again, Sagar, but you also made this point when you were talking about the America Party.

[Ryan]

Oh, yeah, we talked about it yesterday on the show.

[Akash]

Which is. Yeah, but this is exactly it. They always think that the third party is the third way party. Right. That it's the party of Austerity and compromise and centrism. But what people actually want is very different than what any type of billionaire elite. Dean Phillips, sort of a Nepo baby, thinks that actually they need, that voters actually want. So it's not responsive to what people actually want.

[Crystal Ball]

Here's my other thing is like, you know, he's like, oh, he's a socialist, so that's not compatible. I really, I'm trying to get an interview with Tom Swazi, who has like a similar Zora on critique. I really want to ask him, okay, which of these policies do you find to be completely out of bounds that you can't even exist in the city? Like, okay, put the label aside. Who cares what he calls himself? Is it the free buses, which are supported by like 70% of New Yorkers? Is it free and affordable daycare, which is like also wildly popular? Is it, you know, the rent freeze on already rent controlled apartments? Like, what is it that is so outrageous? Is it five publicly owned grocery stores? Like, what are we talking about here that's so crazy that you can't exist in the same party? And we all know what the real answer was is Israel. If Zorin had the right answers on Israel, Dean Phillips wouldn't have an issue. Bunch of. Kirsten Gillibrand wouldn't have an issue. Richie Torres wouldn't have an issue. All these people, John Fetterman were so panicked and upset because he's a socialist. No, it's not about him being a socialist.

[Akash]

They exist alongside Ilhan Omar and aoc.

[Ryan]

Yeah, right, right.

[Crystal Ball]

You are upset because he wouldn't back down with your lull, you know, oh, well, does Israel have a right to exist as a Jewish state? And he's like, how about a state with equal rights? Or you know, that he supports BDS or that he didn't back down when they asked him, which is not even something he said, like, hey, how about globalize the Intifada? Will you condemn this language? And he's like, like, no, here's where it comes from. And I'm not in the business of word policing. The fact that he wouldn't bend at all on any of those things when he was pressed and like under fire. That's what they actually, it's not the free buses. Like, they don't like that. So. But it's not that. It's not that. It is Israel. And Dean Phillips cannot see himself existing in the same party as someone who says everyone should have equal rights within Israel and the status quo is apartheid and this is a genocide. And it's unacceptable.

[Ryan]

That's why it's just so preposterous. You know, I had high hopes for Dean, as people remember, because Dean had an opportunity. No, for real, he was the Cassandra on Biden's age. He could have played that well. He could have done the Obama 2002 thing where he's like, I was the only guy who came and spoke out against the war when it wasn't popular. I mean, that was. That's credibility. You know, even whenever it didn't, nobody cared about Obama's speech at the time. It was a state senator. Who is he even talking about Iraq for? But that's political talent. That's political entrepreneurship. And Dean is independently wealthy. You know, he could have financed or, you know, played it into something different, but unfortunately since then, he's become like a weird, like, Elon fanboy. And then, you know, he was like, anti Biden, but now, you know, trying to defining himself on the axis of Israel. And it's like, dude, like, that's just not that. That's not what the base wants or needs right now. You know, not only in terms of the Democratic Party, but that's not where the political future is, if you're, like, looking at the tide. So it's actually very unfortunate for. For somebody who I think if he played his cards differently, had a real opportunity. But I mean, maybe it just shows that even his run against Biden wasn't really about, you know, principle or whatever. Like, it wasn't like it was just a vanity campaign at the time, which. Well, let's. It's kind of sad.

[Akash]

Yeah, let's take the cynical read on it and, and keep playing at that thread, which is that cynically, he was smart enough to see where the wind was blowing. I mean, he's from Minnesota. You talk to normal people in Minnesota a year and a half ago, and they were like, hey, is the president dead?

[Ryan]

Right.

[Akash]

And so he was at least smart enough and like, understood that it would age well, no pun intended, to question the president's health. That like, that there would be a reckoning on that. What it shows now is that he's. He's not smart or either smart enough or willing to. To see where the wind is blowing on this particular issue with the base.

[Crystal Ball]

Can I tell you what. What I firmly believe happened with Dean Phillips, because we interviewed him multiple times. I have interviewed him on kkf. We interviewed him on Breaking Points. When he first got in against Biden, he. He realized that the opening was to the left. And so even Though he'd just been like a run of the mill, voting for Biden's agenda, like, very centrist politician. He moved himself to the left. And remember, he talked about, like, I had these conversations and I realized we need to be more economically populist. And then when it came to Israel, that was just like, you know, that was a place he was not willing to go. And I had some pretty like, you know, heated exchanges with him over exactly that. And I think that the Israel position has really kind of driven an increasing, like, right wing shift from Dean Phillips, because, and this is something you see happen all the time is like, this is one issue that's like central to his identity. He sees the people that he's aligned with, they're more on the right. And it is just like any semblance of, oh, I'm going to become more progressive. All of that is gone because it's all sort of being driven by his commitment to Israel. And you see this with like, you know, Fetterman, Richie Torres, various. A lot of characters on the right who see their unwillingness to give any credence to Palestinians, right, To like, exist and live. They see that as like they're standing up to the woke mob and that becomes sort of like core to their identity. And so, you know, that's how you end up in this place where you think you're being a renegade by literally toeing the line of the Trump administration, the Biden administration, like aipac, you know, all of these very powerful, well organized entities. And you think somehow you're being a renegade. But that really is, I think that is exactly the trajectory that played out with Dean Phillips, where he started off thinking, oh, I need to get to the left. And then it just ran into the Israel Wall. And his whole political identity sort of shaped and formed around that.

[Akash]

Also a good example of the admin missing, missing the vibes. Yeah, they think that, like the, the Khalil Azturk stuff, Stuff, at least at the time, they thought it was playing well.

[Ryan]

I know I, I talked to them about it. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I talked to them about it. I said, what the do you think you guys are doing? I said, do you just not understand, like, the disconnect that's happening here? And they're like, oh, you're out of touch. You know, you've been spending too much time with. I said, all right, you know, we'll.

[Akash]

See, we'll check in.

[Ryan]

That's how.

[Akash]

That's always what I say.

[Ryan]

And lo and behold, you know, it's so funny because, you know, three years ago, they're like, hey, man, can I get Joe Rogan's number? Or Andrew and I. Oh, yeah. It's like, you know, maybe some of us know a little bit about where things go, but look, they don't listen. They're. They're huffing up. Fox fo Trump is actually more addicted to Fox today than at any time before. That's what I hear.

[Crystal Ball]

Really.

[Ryan]

And it is. It's crazy, actually, because he has to be brought, like, printouts of people's tweets who disagree with. That's kind of how he keeps up with, like, Laura Loomer or any of these other people. That's because people will print these things out and they'll kind of show him that's the extent to which he engages with the online world. And it's just so funny because. Yeah, yeah, he doesn't know. He really.

[Akash]

Stuff he does not know. Yeah. But for this exact reason, JD and.

[Ryan]

The rest of them can't be forgiven on this because they're actually on. They're. By the way, they're probably more online than I am or the rest of them. Like, they are. They do. And so for them, it's like, I just don't get, you know, where a lot of this cope and stuff comes from and how they think that people are just gonna sit there and take it. Especially they really believe that these podcast guys were, like, useful idiots, that they could just, like, sit and glaze them. And, you know, I've already watched basically all of them turn in some way. I don't know if you guys saw, like, Theo Vaughn in an episode after JD Was on, he was like, yeah, I really hated his answer on Palantir or something. I was like, wow. You know, I mean, you could see it, like, all of them are starting to get, like, this kind of, like, gross vibe. And, you know, look these. At the end of the day, like, they rose independently and they have independent income streams. They're not mainstream media. They don't care about the connections to a certain extent or access. And they thought it was cool to have Trump on, and that's mostly what it was really all about. And so, you know, you can only, like, take them and take advantage of them, I guess, like, so many times before. They're like, yeah, man. Like, I really don't like a lot of the stuff that you're doing. And I think that's really starting to permeate in the call. I mean, Tucker is another example. I mean, you know, it's like, that's. There's some most critical comments you probably ever hear. And yeah, I, I just put all that stuff together and I see things just blown in a very, very different direction. But the White House, it cannot be emphasized enough. Like Emily said, said they think this is. They're on cloud nine. Like, they are. Like, we are winning. It's never been better. The Epstein thing is a blip. You know, anybody not on the team is just a loser, you know, panicking, whatever. The polls are fake. And I'm just like, okay, I mean, maybe that's a good transition to Canada. Crystal, they're about to slap. You know, I mean, this is insanity. This is the. That was the lowest in terms of. His economic approval was during the Mexico, Canada tariff war. He's like, oh, actually yolo, let's go right back to it. For what reason? Nobody knows.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah, here we go. Starting August 1st, we're going to charge Canada a tariff. 35% on Canadian products sent into the US still. The ones that are, you know, part of the U.S. canada, Mexico trade agreement are exempted. But this is, you know, an increase from the previous tariffs that have been levied on Canada and obviously comes in a week when Some, what like 22 countries just got like sort of random tariffs slapped on them. I don't know if you guys saw, I was just reading this morning, the Vietnam. Vietnam was one of two countries that we had a quote unquote deal with. Now, neither of these, the other one being the uk Neither of these really was like fleshed out, but it was like, okay, we've got an outline of something that we can package and concept of a plan. Yes, exactly.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Crystal Ball]

Now the Vietnamese are like, you just put a different tariff on us than what we even had been talking about. Like, what the fuck we. And now we're not even agreeing with your concept of a theory of a plan thing. What is going on? So, yeah, I mean, it's just complete madness. And I think at this point Wall street is just priced in like the taco trade. You know, they're just like, ah, he's doing this now. Next week it'll be off again. Who cares? None of it's ultimately going to matter, but at some point it's going to matter. At some point. If you're just slapping 50% tariffs on Brazil and 35% on Canada and this country and that country and whatever, at some point that adds up to having a real impact on the real economy and on mostly working class people who will be the ones who you know, disproportionately, proportionately bear the burden of this.

[Ryan]

Yeah. And I think that, I think again, they're misreading it in terms of. Because the way they look at the story, it's, oh, everybody panicked. And the S P. I mean, the NASDAQ closed at all time high. Right. On Friday, Nvidia is at 4 trillion. They're like, see, were totally vindicated. I'm like, guys, really vindicated because you taco. Because you always back down. Right? It's like, it's not because. Yeah, by the way, keep going.

[Akash]

But they would. Well, yeah, I mean, I was gonna say. Yeah, well, but I was gonna say that their argument is that the taco is the part of the taco is the strategy because.

[Ryan]

Yeah, but we can look at numbers. What are we getting out of this? Nothing.

[Akash]

Yes. I'm obviously this. That's what they would respond is like this.

[Ryan]

But that's what they said about Doge too. And then, oh, oops, lo and behold, it's like federal spending went up, you know, it'.

[Crystal Ball]

What?

[Akash]

Well, I think on tariffs that they want to make this argument that there's. And I'm honestly like sort of torn about this argument that there's a long term, it's, it's bigger than what's happening on any individual week, that it's, you know, big restructuring that's in the process. But we're now that. What was it April 2nd was Liberation Day. And nothing to, to Crystal's point, nothing is really on the books except for uk Vietnam one not looking so good. China one up in the air. And they are back to exactly where they were the week of April 2nd, which is Scott Bessant going on all of the shows and saying, trust us, the phones are ringing off the hook. There will be deals on deals and deals in the next couple of weeks.

[Ryan]

Yeah, I mean, I don't know. They. They keep saying this stuff. I don't think that it connects. I think a lot of people are. I think a lot of people on the economic front, I still think that they really don't quite get like the discontent that they successfully were able to seize upon. I mean, remember, you know, what did the Biden people say? Oh, look at the S P500, look at GDP, inflation is going down. And it's like, guys, that's not what actually any of it was all about. And now they're basically in the same position as to why, you know, things are supposedly good. So, I mean, look, every president does it to a certain extent. But I don't know, you know, it's just galling, like when you run against these types of things and then you basically become the same type of creature who's like, oh, but look at the nasdaq. And it's like, yeah, well, obviously. And if Nvidia stock correlated, you know, with US wages, like that's not exactly where we would be right now, would it?

[Akash]

Well, and they're, they're counting, they're counting on the sort of industrial policy, which they don't want to call it that in the BBB that's now passed. So the write offs like retroactive to January for expensing, manufacturing, building, all of those things. And that's another thing that they need to see like in the next couple of months, significant proof of concept.

[Ryan]

I agree.

[Crystal Ball]

All right, let's go ahead and wrap the free portion of the show here. We're going to talk some more about Epstein. We got Israel stuff and we will, we will get to Bill Ackman for sure in the premium version. So if you want to get the full Friday show, so [e-mail] and for premiums, that part is going to start right now.

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[Crystal Ball]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

This is an iHeart podcast.