7/14/25: Trump Shuts Down Epstein Talk, Epstein Cell Video Edited, Tucker Flames Israel At TPUSA

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar – July 14, 2025

Episode Title: Trump Shuts Down Epstein Talk, Epstein Cell Video Edited, Tucker Flames Israel At TPUSA
Host: Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti
Release Date: July 14, 2025

In this gripping episode of Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar, the hosts delve deep into the tumultuous developments surrounding the Jeffrey Epstein case, President Donald Trump's controversial handling of related investigations, and the ensuing backlash from the MAGA base. The episode offers a comprehensive analysis of political maneuvers, media influence, and the broader implications for American politics.

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1. Epstein Files Controversy and Trump's Defense

Krystal Ball opens the discussion by addressing the latest statements from President Trump regarding the Epstein case. Trump has issued a statement on his platform, Truth Social, vehemently denying any wrongdoing and attempting to redirect the narrative away from Epstein.

Notable Quote:

Trump (via Truth Social, 06:45): "We created the Epstein files just like they created the fake Hillary Clinton dossier that they used on me. And now my so-called friends are playing right into their hands."

Krystal interprets Trump's remarks as an attempt to absolve himself and his administration of any involvement while simultaneously attacking previous administrations and figures like Obama and Hillary Clinton for alleged conspiracies.

2. MAGA Base Reaction and Internal Struggles

Crystal elaborates on the mixed reactions within the MAGA community, highlighting a rare instance where Trump’s own platform experiences a backlash. The episode underscores a significant rift as some within the MAGA base begin to question the administration's transparency and integrity.

Notable Quote:

MAGA Follower (via Truth Social, 08:36): "Americans care because they need accountability. Without accountability, the sickos that abuse children are likely to be abusing children."

The hosts discuss how influential figures like Dan Bongino and Kash Patel find themselves in precarious positions, grappling with internal conflicts and public scrutiny over their roles in the Epstein investigation.

3. The Edited Epstein Cell Video Exposed

A pivotal part of the episode focuses on revelations from Wired.com regarding the Epstein cell footage. Independent forensics experts concluded that the video released by the Department of Justice (DOJ) was likely edited, raising suspicions about the authenticity of the suicide narrative.

Notable Quote:

Krystal Ball (29:44): "The metadata shows at the very least that there was some manipulation. They called it raw footage, but it's clear that it's been altered."

The edited video, which allegedly shows inconsistencies such as missing time stamps and altered footage, further fuels conspiracy theories and distrust in the administration's handling of the case.

4. Tucker Carlson's Fiery Statements at TPUSA

Crystal brings attention to Tucker Carlson’s controversial remarks at the Turning Point USA (TPUSA) conference, where he questioned Israel’s involvement and suggested foreign governments, possibly Mossad, were behind Epstein’s activities.

Notable Quote:

Tucker Carlson (37:08): "We have every right to ask on whose behalf was he working. It's extremely obvious to anyone who watches that this guy has had direct connections to a foreign government."

These comments sparked immediate backlash from Israeli officials and further polarized the MAGA base, revealing deep-seated tensions within the Republican coalition.

5. Political Implications and the Streisand Effect

Harry Entin provides an analysis of the Streisand effect resulting from the Trump administration’s attempts to suppress Epstein-related information. Increased public interest and Google search trends demonstrate that efforts to downplay the issue have only amplified scrutiny and conspiracy theories.

Notable Quote:

Harry Entin (23:21): "One official senior administration official told us, the fact is Dan was releasing the information with the video and had no problem until he got heat online."

The hosts discuss how this unintended consequence challenges the administration’s narrative and heightens skepticism among both MAGA supporters and the general public.

6. Shifting Dynamics Within the MAGA Movement

Krystal and Saagar explore the fractures emerging within the MAGA movement, particularly among younger Republicans who are reevaluating their support in light of recent developments.

Notable Quote:

Krystal Ball (14:58): "If you do end up with a Democratic candidate who is anti-Zionist and more avowed, it could be a coalition problem for the young right."

The discussion touches on how pivotal issues like foreign policy and character assessments are redefining political alliances and voter loyalty.

7. The Future of Independent Media and Political Discourse

The episode concludes with reflections on the role of independent media in holding power accountable. Krystal emphasizes the importance of providing honest perspectives from both the left and the right, especially as traditional media landscapes become increasingly polarized.

Notable Quote:

Krystal Ball (61:49): "The Trump administration, the Trump campaign used that audience and really won a lot of them over. So to have them turn against you [...] you are now in a position where you are supposed to pay attention."

Saagar and Krystal advocate for continued vigilance and critical analysis to navigate the complexities of modern politics, encouraging listeners to support independent journalism and maintain informed skepticism.

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Conclusion

This episode of Breaking Points offers a thorough and nuanced examination of the intersection between political strategy, media influence, and public perception in the context of the ongoing Jeffrey Epstein controversy. Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti provide insightful commentary on the shifting dynamics within the MAGA movement and the broader implications for American political discourse. Through meticulous analysis and compelling quotes, the hosts illuminate the challenges facing independent media and the importance of accountability in an era of deep political divisions.

Transcript

[Krystal Ball]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

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[Crystal]

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[Krystal Ball]

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[Krystal Ball]

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[Crystal]

Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.

[Krystal Ball]

This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.

[Crystal]

So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

[Krystal Ball]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breaking points.com Good morning everybody. Happy Monday. We have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have? Crystal?

[Crystal]

Indeed we do. We are closely tracking all of the Epstein developments and fallout. We're going to start with what is going on inside the Trump administration to the best of how we can parse that, including an instantly infamous Truth Social from the President himself. We have new questions about that video they released and a potential cover up. We've got the, the MAGA reaction which is at this point sort of all over the board, all across the board. So Trump actually getting ratioed on Truth Social potentially for the first time. So interesting things developing there. Epstein's brother is speaking out in an interview with Don Levin. At the same time, there are some other important stories we are tracking as well. A bunch of things that are happening on the immigration front, including a new poll that shows Americans more supportive of immigrants in some ways than ever before. Obvious reaction to some of the actions taken by the Trump administration. We also have new details and reporting about Alligator Alcatraz and exactly who was sent there. So you don't want to miss that. FEMA is under fire as they attempt to respond to those horrific floods down in Texas. Apparently they had let go a bunch of contractors who are supposed to answer phone calls from disaster victims. And so many of those victims unable to get anyone on the phone to help them in this horrific time of need. So we will take a look at that as well. If you are a premium subscriber, we'll also be doing an AMA live. If you guys want to be part of those every single week, make sure you [e-mail] that's right.

[Krystal Ball]

Thank you to everybody who has been doing so. Breakingpoints.com if you want to join us, you have a monthly or a yearly membership that you can go ahead and support the show. We got a lot of new people coming in from Tucker, Carls, from Epstein. So many different stories that we've been coming here and so it is amazing to have all of you and thank you and we welcome you. And with all of that being said, let's turn now to the Epstein story and perhaps one of the most insane Trump truths that has happened yet so far. That is a high bar and that is a very high bar. Covered this man from day one. Let's go ahead and put it up there on the screen. What do we have? What's going on with my boys and in some cases gals, they are all going after Attorney General Pam Bondi who is doing a fantastic job. We are on one team MAGA and I don't like what's happening. We have a perfect administration. The talk of the world. Selfish people are trying to hurt it all over a guy who never dies. Jeffrey Epstein. For years it's Epstein over and over again. Why are we giving publicity to files written by Obama, crooked Hillary, Comey Brennan and the loser and criminals of the Biden administration who con the world with the Russia, Russia, Russia ho and the laptop from hell. They created the Epstein files just like they created the fake Hillary Clinton dossier that they used on me. And now my so called friends are playing right into their hands. Why didn't these radical left lunatics release the Epstein files? If there was anything in there that could have hurt the MAGA movement, why didn't they use it? They haven't given up on JFK or Martin Luther King. No matter how much success we have had securing the border, blah blah blah, it is never enough for some people. We are about to achieve more in six months than history. We continue there with some more platitudes. The left is imploding. And then Kash Patel and the FBI must be focused on investigating voter fraud, political corruption, ActBlue, the rigged election of 2020 and arresting thugs and criminals and spending month after month looking at nothing but the same old radical left inspired documents on Jeffrey Epstein. Let Pam Bondi do her job, she's great. And then I think that's it. Yeah. Oh, and then finally, one year ago, our country was dead. Now it's the hottest country owner in the world. Let's keep it that way and not waste time and energy on Jeffrey Epstein, somebody that nobody cares about. Thank you for your attention to this matter. Well, okay, so there's a lot going on there. Obama created the Epstein files, the Epstein files, even though Epstein himself was arrested in 2000 or sorry was prosecuted, et cetera, in 2019 and then eventually died in federal custody under the first Trump administration. The quote Epstein files allegedly were in position of first the Trump and then the Biden administration. If he's saying that Obama created the Trump, Epstein files is actually a very interesting story because where exactly? Why were they having all these files before and after, you know, before he was a part of this grand whole conspiracy and after the non prosecution agreement that of course was reached under his administration. But I mean more broadly, what's the message that's being sent there? Everybody back off. There's nothing to see here. Don't worry about it. Case closed. Cash Patel, Dan Bongino, everybody else, you guys need to stay where you're put. And the rest of maga, you guys just need to move on. We have much bigger things that are happening right now. Is that working? No, it's actually not.

[Crystal]

Yeah, it's nothing to see here but in like a thousand words. Which makes everyone, you know, want to focus even more on this than they already were. If you're keeping track at home. First when they were running it was we were going to release the files. Then it's Pam Bondi saying, the files are on my desk and we're reviewing all the thousands of hours of video, et cetera. Then it's, there's nothing to see in the files. Then it's, there are no files. And now it's, the files were created by Obama and Hillary. Just if you're trying to keep track with where we are. And I mean, listen, it's actually important to dig into the details of this screed because first of all, the claim that, oh, nobody cares and this is just a fixation of the left is just so preposterous that I think there are some people on the left who have been interested in the Epstein files, myself included. But this has been primarily a sort of right wing coded interest. So that's preposterous. And obviously there is a ton of interest in this, especially from your own base. The other piece here is, you know, the explicit support for Pam Bondi is really important. We'll get to more of these developments in just a second. Because one of the talking points that some of the sort of MAGA influencers have been landing on is this is all Pam Bondi's fault. And originally there was a maybe it's Cash Patel's fault, maybe it's Dan Bongino's fault. Well, Trump had already put on his truth saying, no, no, no, they're doing a fantastic job. Back to the basics at the FBI. They're doing exactly what they should do. So then all the attention is shifted to Pam Bondi and wow, it must be all her fault. And let's just pin this on her and that way we can keep the big guy's hands clean. So him coming in and saying, no, she also is doing a great job and I also am 100% happy with her. It just gives them very little room to operate in terms of whatever sort of like the spin and cope that the MAGA influencer world wants to put on this to, of course, always absolve Trump of any direct responsibility. Right.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, I mean, in some ways it's actually quite helpful because what Trump has done, he's saying, no, I own this, everybody needs to move on. He's given two statements now, one on camera, and now a truth social at this point, being like, there's nothing to see here, everybody needs to move on. Your guys are actually crazy, by the way, when he's like, why are you all focused on Epstein? He recently after he tweeted that or truthed. I apologize. Truth. I believe on Sunday about stripping Rosie o' Donnell of her citizenship. And it's like, oh, okay, so we can't talk Epstein. But you're focused on the important things like Rosie o' Donnell's citizenship after she left the country. What else do you want? She left. She actually lived up to her word. All right, let's get to the Truth Social point, as you said. And this is part of why Trump owning it is actually quite bad for him, in my opinion. Let's go and put this up there on the screen. Perhaps the very first ratio ever in Truth Social history. I'm gonna read some of the replies to Donald Trump again. Keep this in mind. This is on Truth Social, his own platform. You are losing too many people in your base. Have an aide collect what we're all saying over social media. Pam Bondi has not been telling the tr. Her story has changed each time. Sir, you need to listen to us. Are you aware how long many of us work to get the truth? We refuse to give us a pass for the US this will not go away. This is about the children. Another top reply. Americans care because they need accountability. Without accountability, the sickos that worries customers are likely to be abusing children. On top of that, it is a slap in the face to many of the victims that have come forward next. This is going to cost you so many supporters. I am one of them. I have been to multiple rallies. I was there on January 6th. This is one of the main things that needs to be fixed. Our two tier system of justice needs to end. We the people are tired of it. They can't be charged with child trafficking without there being perpetrators. And then he goes on next. Mr. President, you did make the promise. Just saying we want them exposed. You promised us that. Pam promised us that Cash promises that now it's our fault because we want that promise fulfilled. And call Pam out when she lies. What else are you lying to us about? And so you can see there is certainly a full blown revolt going on. Or at least there was allegedly inside of the administration over the weekend. We thought about doing breaking news here but we're like, let's see how it plays out. Because Cash Patel, Bongino in particular were kind of floating these trial balloons. It's like it's Bongino or it's Pam Bondi. I will say Bongino himself apparently took a day of vacation on Friday and kicked up a storm about this entire situation where he kind of posed between him And Bondi, we're get a little bit into some of the details and more, but Kash Patel has now come out and said he's not leaving. Let's go and put that up there on the screen. He says the conspiracy theories just aren't true, never have been. It's an honor to serve the President of the United States, Donald Trump, and I'll continue to do so for as long as he calls on me. Now, the conspiracy theories that Cash is apparently referencing are, let's say, the ones that he actually went on camera and made himself very rich from spreading. So at that time, it was a conspiracy, and now he says it's not a conspiracy. Now you could say, well, he's seen some more information and he's reviewed them, which basically comes down to, trust me. Because at the same time, Crystal, if he released all of the information and then we could make up our minds for ourselves and say, okay, he got over his skis or whatever, and now here's we are, so be it. Honestly, I mean, wouldn't everybody happy? It's not a giant grand conspiracy. Instead, they put out this memo, which apparently. And we're gonna get to this in a second. Was basically signed off by Kash Patel, Dan Bongino, and Pam Bondi. So it really is the three of them together. And then of course, just elicited all of his insane rage on controversy online. It's after that that Bongino, Cash, Patel, and others at least try to distance themselves. But ultimately, Trump gets on the phone and he's like, no, you guys need to come. He's like, you need to come out and show the flag and to support this. But to just say, quote, the conspiracy theories aren't true. When you yourself talked for years about how the FBI Director himself has direct access to this, I mean, there's tape of all this. I feel crazy, like, literally going on Glenn Beck's show saying the FBI Director himself has direct access to this. As director, here's exactly where I would look for it. They assigned details and all of these agents to the investigation. Allegedly. They said that the client list was on my desk, the flight log. I've seen them. There's been thousands of victims. I could go on forever in just terms of the public record. And now the conspiracy theories aren't true. And if I had it, don't you think I would give it to you? No, I don't. And it's like, that is really what.

[Crystal]

It all boils down, because you were either lying then or you're lying Now.

[Krystal Ball]

Exactly.

[Crystal]

So in neither case should we trust you.

[Krystal Ball]

Correct.

[Crystal]

Like, that much is really clear. And. And we'll talk more about the MAGA reaction and where I think they'll all sort of end up ultimately. But I do think I underestimated how central Epstein was to the sort of, like, core MAGA faithful lore, like, their idea, their conception of who Trump is and the way he would behave in office. And not everybody in MAGA was like a QAnon believer, but those things sort of tie in together, right, where it's. There's this evil cabal of elite in the deep state who are destroying the country and doing these horrible things with children, and Trump is going to be our white knight to come in and expose it all. There's gonna be a day of reckoning. We just have to trust the plan and believe. And now for him to come in and say, not only is there no conspiracy and nothing to see here, but you all are ridiculous for even asking questions about this, that's a hard pill to swallow. And all of the previous, you know, avenues of saying, okay, well, maybe, maybe it's Pam Bottom, maybe it's Dan Bongino, maybe it's Kaj Patel. He is closing off all of those avenues. So you really have to reckon with, okay, well, why is this man that I trusted so much to expose these elite sex crimes? Why is he now seemingly part of the plot? And like I said, we'll get to some of the explanations that are being offered. Alex Jones has some theories going on in the MAGA section. I think ultimately they will, by and large all come around to some sort of theory that they live with and move on. But this has definitely sort of shaken the online MAGA faithful. I also wanna say, like, I have a little bit of humility too, about how far this penetrates into Normie America, because it is very much an online phenomenon. But I think it does contribute to the sense of, like, you know, this administration is just not really what was promised to us. Like, this is just not really going the way that I thought it would go. Trump is not exactly the character that I thought that he was. So in that way, I think it may have some sort of lasting impact on that.

[Krystal Ball]

Let's not all overstate it. And let's say that, of course, and this is, again, this is always a problem with MAGA versus the right versus the general public. There are 80 something million people who voted for Donald Trump. Okay, then let's shrink it down to who consider themselves MAGA within that maybe 35, 40%. The rest are like ordinary normie Republicans. And then there's a whole bunch of independents and other people. So let's talk about groups. They're the mag people who are watching Alex Jones. Of course they're gonna come around. In my opinion, many of these truth social reply guys, eventually, like you said, they will invent a story. But there are a lot of people for whom this was an entree into politics, where there's a vibe based which got people to vote for Donald Trump, maybe to look past what they saw were some of his most distasteful things. And that very much leads to same, you know, old new boss, same as the old boss. That mentality is very destructive to the outsider fighting the insider. And it's one that really just makes him as cut from the same cloth as other. And in particular the way that he's handling this story. So it's not the story itself, it's kind of the veneer around him, his administration, which is seen as like this upstart. We'll fit it with Doge and the original kind of promises of November and all that. We're gonna come in, we're gonna break things, it's gonna be a new day, a new dawn house, and we're gonna clean house. And it's like, well, you know, I'm not seeing it so far. The major legislation is this massive tax cut. And it's like, oh, and we're covering up the Epstein thing. Oh, and we bombed Iran and I could go on.

[Crystal]

Right.

[Krystal Ball]

Actually, by the way, we'll get it tomorrow. Today, Donald Trump is shipping Patriot missiles and offensive weapons Long Ra to Ukraine.

[Crystal]

Okay.

[Krystal Ball]

Okay. You know, interesting. Well, let's go and put a four up on the screen. And this is from Laura Loomer. Just to describe what I was talking about with Bongino. She says some Bongino serious thing about resigning from the FBI as the Deputy Director. Quote. As I explicitly reported earlier today, Bongino took the day off from work to evaluate whether he not wants to continue in his position. I will say out of all of them, he is in my opinion, the most tenuous. Just because he. I mean, look, this was a central thing for him and even Tucker and many of other citizens. Like, dude, how can you actually go back to your show in good faith, like, ever? Cause he's left his show, the Bongino Report, which is being hosted right now by my friend Vince Colonniere's. But how could you ever credibly go back after you've participated in all of this? When you spent years building up an audience for promises of going through the deep state of ravaging and showing the truth, it's like you've already busted a whole lot of your credibility. And in particular, actually, if you put a 5 up on the screen, this is pretty devastating for Dan Bongino and for Kash Patel. So this is basically about the clash between Bondi and their handling of the Epstein files. He didn't come to work on Friday, apparently got into a shouting match between the two. But at the center really of all of this is really a question about this so called memo that was released unsigned. Right. You know, by the administration. Actually. A lot of people were like, hey, is this actually legit? But you know, what has now come out from inside a lot of the reporting is that Bosh, Cash, Patel and Bongino did sign off on the content of this memo before it went public. And so I think for them, they were shocked at the public reception for what happened after the. Basically, I don't think they expected the public perception just because, I mean, the DOJ effectively told us, case closed, like, it's over, our hands are washed of this thing. It was one thing. When Cash is on Rogan, what did Schultz say is like cross bug eyes or whatever, like looking like a crazy man. Like, if I had it, don't you think I would tell you? You know, and that's one thing, it's still pretty crazy. But we're like, okay, you know, maybe we're still working towards the release of the files and things like that. It's a whole other thing for him, for, you know, the FBI, the ag, to just say it's done after going on the White House lawn and saying totally opposite things. And then for the President of the United States to just come on and be like, yep, actually we're completely done here, there's nothing to see and we are moving on. That is really a whole other level. So I actually do still think that this is an important story for a variety of reasons. And the vibes got Donald Trump elected in many ways, in my opinion. And now they're moving against him. It also, I think, shuts down. And we're gonna get to this a little bit in terms of podcast reaction, et cetera. I don't see the Theo Vaughn, JD Convos hanging out anymore. I just, I don't see how that can really happen credibly at this point. Because, I mean, in a certain way, for a lot of these guys, they feel used because they made a lot of promises on Their platforms. And then a lot of those things do what they go the opposite. And so if you were ever to come back, it would frankly just have to be a way more of a critical conversation that the administration is not prepared for. I mean, does anyone wanna know which interview Trump did during the Epstein files? Does anyone wanna guess? It was with his daughter in law on Fox News with another Trump which. Another Trump which was pre taped. Okay, yeah, that's really trans that we're watching over there. But you see what I'm saying? I mean at this point it's gonna be Trump, maybe the rope line, we'll see what we get from that. But in terms of a sit down for that one hour, two hour, three hour, whatever, I'm not seeing that coming anytime soon. And that's a big problem I think for the Trump administration, which really wanted to put their foot in that well of just constantly trying to keep the Internet and all that stuff on their side. So I don't wanna overstate it, but I don't wanna understate its importance either.

[Crystal]

The Bonjino thing, they had this line in the Axios report. They said one official senior administration official told them, the fact is Dan was 4 releasing the information with the video and had no problem until he got heat online. And listen, they might be lying, they're almost definitely spinning. But I do find it sort, I do find it credible just from the way that he reacted. As you said, he signed off on that memo and then it's only after the shit hits the fan that suddenly he's mad at Pam Bonnie and he's having a fight and whatever. I suspect working in government has just not been really what Dan Bongino expected it to be. Being a podcaster is a great life, let's be honest.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, it's awesome.

[Crystal]

It's way easier than having to actually go into an office every day. I don't know if you saw there was a video of him talking, I don't know, a couple months ago where he's basically talking about how depressed he was. It's like I just sit in the office, I stare at these four walls, I miss my wife. I mean he practically was in tears about how much the job making him miserable. So it wouldn't surprise me also if he's kind of looking for an out, you know, and so he. I don't know that he's correct that he could salvage his reputation with MAGA at this point because there still would be so many questions, right? Like, so are there files or aren't there, what did you see? Why did you sign off on this? But he may be thinking, okay, this is the last moment when I can get out, I can maintain some of my credibility. Cuz I walked away, cuz I was disgusted with how this was handled and I can go back to the very nice life I had before I went into the murder.

[Krystal Ball]

Listen, that would be the honor because you built your whole career on this thing. And if you came out and if you really came out and you told people the truth about stuff that happened behind the scenes. Yes, I was coerced or whatever and assigned. But you know, look, resigning in protest is the honorable thing that you're supposed to do if you totally disagree with a policy and in particular be good for your career.

[Crystal]

I mean, listen, I mean, maybe. But then again, like, what is the truth? The truth is probably like, oh, actually Donald Trump didn't want us to move forward with this and he has an audience that isn't really gonna wanna hear that. You know, see, I'm not so sure.

[Krystal Ball]

I really think at this point that there's a big opening and we'll talk about this with MAGA reaction, but with Tucker, I mean, look, there's, and I've personally experienced this after just being on the pod. There are MAGA faithful people out there, people I never in a million years who would have, I thought would have been an entree, point to which for criticism of Trump, who are fuming, frothing at the mouth. And I do think that, that that's a space where, look, you can be honest about it. You don't have to make it into a big indictment of the whole administration. You should be like, look on this thing, he said this, I thought it was a shutdown. It's corrupt. And this is not what I signed up for. At the end of the day, I still support the President's initial campaign promises, but at the end of the day, this was a bridge too far for me, if you put it that way. I mean, you basically make yourself unattackable from any sort of like he's a lib or whatever and you tell the truth. I could be wrong. I could be. But at this point, he's in a tough position. Yeah, let's get to a seven here from Harry Entin just about how there has been a huge Streisand effect on the Epstein story by trying to shut it down. The public is actually never more interested than ever before. Let's take a listen.

[Harry Entin]

What a massive unforced error by the Trump administration. Donald Trump Would love this story to go away, but in fact interest is climbing, climbing higher and higher. To quote Jackie Wilson, look at this. Google searches for Epstein up 1200% this week versus last. And get this, it is currently the top, the, the top topic search with Trump on Google alongside his presidency. I mentioned Tariffs earlier on, right? Epstein has been googled a lot since Monday. He has actually been googled 1.4 times as much as Tariffs has been Googled. And that is of course course a huge news story. How about Grok, which is another insane news story this week? I mean my goodness gracious, but in fact Epstein has been googled 2.5 times as much as the Grok story has been googled. But get this, Trump releasing more Epstein files in 2025. This is the betting market odds. You go back two months ago it was 43%. You go back even a month ago it was 39% but now it's just a 20%. I think that they're going to be a lot of the normally MAGA fan base who are going to be very disappointed and this is all a self inflicted error by Trump.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, exactly right. Again, you know, really the irony is in my opinion, if they had just dragged their feet for another two years and just kept trying to push it along, they would not have had the same people then could have been like, hey, where are the Epstein files? But there's shit going on. You know, we have other things to cover and to worry about, et cetera. But by doing this and trying to shut it down in such a ham fisted way, the day before the Israeli Prime Minister comes, people have no choice but to be asking what the hell is going on in here? You know, and that's, it's all a choice by the administration. Let's not forget that there was no pressing timeline, there was no report. Like there was no real mandate for why they had to do this this way other than they wanted to shut it down perhaps. And forgive me for noticing, the day before that the Prime Minister of Israel comes here to the United States for the third time. These things are just too much at a certain point for people to stop paying attention. And I do think it's creating quite a rift, not just in maga, but I mean for a lot of people JFK is like this. It's actually a real Rorschach test. Like if you ask somebody like hey, did JFK kill himself in the 70s? If you ask that, it's like you're a Democrat. Like that's just basically how it was. It's like, you're voting for Carter, you're voting for McGovern or any of these other people. And it took a long time for it to become more of a bipartisan type thing with the Epstein thing, like you were saying, was more right wing coded. But I'm actually, hopefully now watching a lot of Democrats actually wake up. I'm watching Ro Khanna and I'm watching Jon Ossoff and other Democratic politicians. They're not stupid. They can see how these things are bubbling up online. And they're like, hey, hold on a second. What's going on here? Listen, I'll take political opportunism. It's fine with me. And that actually could really red pill, I think a lot of the Democratic Party base now. In the future, they'll have to get over the Clinton stuff. He's, you know, it's been 30 years, guys. We can throw Clinton under the bus. Let's just do it and let's all move on to a better place as a country.

[Crystal]

Yeah, no, absolutely. And I mean, the way that Trump has behaved, he's just acting so guilty.

[Krystal Ball]

Yes, I know.

[Crystal]

So guilty. We'll talk more about it. But I mean, listen, a lot of his longtime established connection to Epstein was just sort of major blind spot from the right. They just, they only wanted to hear about Clinton or Bill Gates. And it was always so glaring and out there. I mean, we've got the photos, we've got the flight logs, we've got Epstein himself saying they were close friends for years and years. And Trump has been accused of all sorts of sexual crimes by dozens of women at this point. So the idea that he was gonna be the guy to release it, especially when he was always uncomfortable when he got asked about it, I mean, was always sort of preposterous, but he did enough to play into it. And then you had J. Shady Vance out there saying, yes, release the files. And he had a whole MAGA influencer world that was all spun up around this. So they believe that he would really be the guy. And now that he's behaving in this just like preposterously guilty way with this long unhinged truth social post and snapping at a reporter that dared to ask about it and saying, this is ridiculous. We need to just move on. Trying to put out this memo saying, case closed, nothing to see here. Right before Benjamin Netanyahu is in town. And also just after, after Elon had gone after him and said, well, the truth is that Trump is in the Epstein files. It all looks Suspicious as hell. And that is a good transition to this video that they released which was supposed to assure all of us that Jeffrey Epstein definitely killed himself and there was absolutely nothing to see there. Sager.

[Krystal Ball]

That'S a very, very good transition here to this so called video and now some of the reporting that's actually come out of that video. So let's take at a look, listen or sorry, take a look, shall we? Let's go and put it up here on the screen from wired.com if people don't know Wired technology based magazine, one of the best tech kind of publications that's out there. Metadata shows the FBI's quote, raw Jeffrey Epstein prison video was likely modified. Metadata embedded in the video and analyzed by Wired and independent video forensic experts shows that rather than being a direct export from the prison surveillance system, the footage was modified, likely using the professional editing tool Adobe Premiere Pro. The file appears to have been assemble from at least two source clips, saved multiple times, exported, uploaded to the DOJ website where it was presented as quote, raw footage. That is interesting, isn't it? The metadata analysis shows at the very least that there was some manipulation. I mean we can sympathize perhaps in some respects if you're like, hey, here's all the footage that we have. We edited it for clarity or something, but they called it raw, okay? They called it raw. Let's be clear about raw. Now let's go ahead and put the video up on the screen just to show some of the problems. Everybody take a look. Let's loop that again guys, shall we? Look at the timestamp. It jumps from 11:58 to midnight at 12:00am now remember the explanation here from Pam Bondi about that missing minute. I've personally never heard of a camera system like this. Let's go ahead and play a 10 for how the Attorney General responds to why there's a missing one minute from the tape and the minute missing from the video.

[Crystal]

We release the video showing definitively the video was not conclusive, but the evidence prior to it was showing he committed suicide.

[Krystal Ball]

And what was on that? There was a minute that was off the counter. And what we learned from Bureau of Prisons was every year, every night they redo that video. It's old from like 1999.

[Crystal]

So every night the video is reset and every night should have the same minute missing. So we're looking for that video to release that as well, showing that a minute is missing every night. And that's it on Epstein.

[Krystal Ball]

Right? So every night there's one minute of missing Footage. Now, you know, this is one of the most secure prisons in the United States of America. I have a dumbass ring camera, and I have a more sophisticated video system than the Bureau of Prison. I mean, that actually is kind of believable. Actually, that is theoretically believable. But, you know, I'm just a little bit skeptical, especially whenever they're not releasing any evidence or any of this other stuff.

[Crystal]

I mean, it's just always like, okay, all the other cameras happen to not be working and the guards happen to be sleeping. And the way this was previously presented to us was basically like, listen, we just don't have the video to definitively prove either way. And now it's like, no, we do have the video, and here it is, and it definitely definitively proves it. And then instantly there's questions about what this camera angle is and what it's showing and why is there a minute missing. And by the way, you said this was raw footage, and we now know that it's been edited and manipulated in some kind of a way. So again, there's just no reason to trust and recall, guys. They came out with a super definitive, multiple times, actually statements of saying there is just nothing there. Like, we have decided Cash Patel on Joe Rogan. We looked into it. We did the research. We are definitively conclusively saying he definitely killed himself. And this video is what we're supposed to use to have total faith that they're telling us the truth and there's no there there, et cetera. And immediately we notice these inconsistencies and they're spinning and portraying this in a way that is just fundamentally dishonest from what the video actually reflects.

[Krystal Ball]

I mean, part of why this all drives me crazy is that it's like the Kennedy assassination. Look, I mean, if you read the Warren Commission, it's all there. I wouldn't say it's a good case, but there's the case for why it was lone gun and all this other stuff. Well, what did we do over the last 60, 70 years or whatever we had gone through systematically and be like, okay, here's an inconsistency. Here's an inconsistency. Here's an inconsistency to the point where the inconsistencies show us, well, we don't know definitively what happened, but we know for sure it ain't this shit. It ain't some magic bullet. And, oh, the autopsy report, I could go on forever. Well, that's the same thing here, okay? It's the exact same scenario. And so, for example, just with the video, which literally the video is now comparable at this point to the magic bullet theory or whatever. Just take a look. All right, here, let's put this graphic up on the screen. And this is from Julie K. Brown, who's one of the best journalists who works on this. And she goes, look, the key cameras weren't, quote, not working. The cameras showing the guards are not even in the same cameras as those in the Epstein Wing. If you look at the report, there is even a graphic. So, guys, you can actually see exactly where the cell is. What camera, what they were showing was the one that was streaming and was recording, and then others that were streaming but not recording in the entire rest of the cell block. And basically, it shows you how there's like multiple different cameras, avenues, paths to the cell. You can see actually in the background there, the L tier camera that was not working, you know, to this. It's. It just. It boggles the mind to actually think that an edited video, now at this point, a provably edited video, one that has multiple camera angles, which we were told we're not recording and not missing, and that is definitive enough proof. They also always, you know, go up beyond the idea of not really. They also go beyond the fact that this is all they're relying on and not the autopsy report. Remember Michael Bodden, one of the most famous forensic pathologists in the world, said, I'm looking at the. What is it? The hyoid bone? It's not consistent with the hanging. He's like, I'm just telling you that from basically all that I've been able to review that it's not there. They didn't release any of that information. And then it comes down to the privacy element. People are like, oh, well, you want confidential action, access to these files? I'm like, well, yes, I do. But you promised that you would release everything. You promised transparency. You literally ran on this. There's tape after tape of Trump, jd, Cash, Patel, Dan Bongino, and the Attorney General, all five on camera, promising not only transparency, but basically saying that there is a broader conspiracy. We've seen all of this other information. And so you basically forced to conclude they were either completely all lying. I mean, you can't really lie about saying, I'm gonna release. Release it. It's not even. You're basing it on information. It's an action item. You're like, I'm gonna do it. And then you come in and you say, you're not gonna do it. Maybe the attorney General Cash Patel and Dan Bongino, quote, got over their skis. I don't think so. Especially because the Attorney General was the sitting Attorney General at that time. She said it was on her desk. Was she lying at that point? If you were, lady, how can we ever believe anything that you ever say at this point? Every person prosecuted by the United States government from this point forward should just be like, hey, cite the Epstein case as to why the government is basically lying while in office. I don't know. There's so much BS that has happened in this initial report. The video is just the latest example at this point. And yeah, it's just preposterous. I don't know what else to say about it.

[Crystal]

I mean, the bottom line is that Pam Bondi and Alina Haba and Dan Bongino and Castrotel, you were either lying then or you're lying now.

[Krystal Ball]

Right?

[Crystal]

You told us there were thousands of hours of footage and now you're telling us there's nothing. Which is it? Which is it? Because either one means that you have been flagrantly dishonest with the American people. And there needs to be some sort of reckoning with that. But they just clearly, desperately want to sweep this under the rug, change the subject. Talk about Rosie o'. Donnell. I saw some press conference with Pam Bondi talking about like, trans girls in sports or whatever. And that was another thing that was an indicator to me as I looked at those comments too from MAGA people, and they were like, this is bullshit. If you want to protect girls, how about you release that? Wow. Even their go to let's culture war distraction, they were not buying it. So that's how serious this is.

[Krystal Ball]

Why should you buy it? You're like, what?

[Crystal]

Oh, yeah, you care so much about protecting girls.

[Krystal Ball]

That's what I'm saying. I can't deal with this level of BS anymore. And look, I mean, that's me. But I really do think that there's a lot of people out there who feel similarly. That's a good transition to maga and kind of the reaction that we've seen so far. By far the most outspoken voice over the weekend, Tucker Carlson, who took the stage in enemy territory. Or maybe not. Actually, we can discuss at the Turning Point USA conference where it's full of the MAGA faithful. And the conference itself was raucous. Both on the Epstein question. There was a debate between Dave Smith and Josh Hammer on the question of Israel. Both of them were actually getting booed and celebrated at the same time. Israel and Epstein are out actually just tearing up the entire at least like young MAGA faithful, which is very interesting. So let's take a listen here to Tucker Carlson's comments at the TP USA event on Jeffrey Epstein. Let's take a listen.

[Tucker Carlson]

And so the real question is not was Jeffrey Epstein a weirdo who was abusing girls? Yes, we can answer that. The real question is, why was he doing this? On whose behalf? And where did the money come from? And those are the questions that need to be answered. And I think it's entirely fair to ask them. And it's not adequate to say anyone who asked them is somehow desecrating the memory of little girls who died in Texas are not going to put up with that answer. I don't care who gives that answer. That is not acceptable. And I think the real answer is Jeffrey Epstein was working on behalf of Intel Services, probably not American. And we have every right to ask on whose behalf was he working. It's extremely obvious to anyone who watches that this guy has had direct connections to a foreign government. Now, no one's allowed to say that that foreign government is Israel because we have been somehow cowed into thinking that that's naughty. There is nothing wrong with saying that. There is nothing hateful about saying that. There's nothing anti Semitic about saying. There's nothing even anti Israel about saying that. And you have a right to expect that your government will not act against your interests. And you have a right to demand that foreign governments not be allowed to act against your interest. People feel like they can't just say, like, what the hell is this? You have the former Israeli prime minister living in your house. You have had all this contact with the foreign government. Were you working on behalf of Mossad? Were you running a blackmail operation on behalf of foreign government? By the way, every single person in Washington, D.C. thinks that. I've never met anyone who doesn't that think that.

[Krystal Ball]

Every single person. I mean, privately, they probably do admit it. People are too afraid to actually say it out loud. But that was from Tucker. Obviously. He's gotten a huge reaction. He's already being denounced by the Israeli Minister for Diaspora affairs, who has an open letter to Charlie Kirk about platforming anti Semitism like this. The former Israeli prime Minister, Naftali Bennett this morning came out and said Israel's never worked with Jeffrey Epstein. He never worked with Mossad, and he went after Tucker Carlson and Charlie Kirk as well. Let's put this up there on the screen. Also from Elon Musk, who originally made this accusation, setting Here, quote, seriously, he said Epstein half a dozen times. This is reacting to the original truth social post half a dozen times while telling everyone to stop talking about. Epstein just released the files as promised. You know, actually, it just occurred to me, what if all of this was an effort to try and shut down the Elon conversation, which ended up just being a Streisand effect effect for all of that to try and get ahead or responding that actually would make a little bit of political.

[Crystal]

I think that's probably part of it too, for sure. I mean, you know, it's really interesting that the Israel piece and what you're talking about, how it's like tearing apart young MAGA in particular, the young right in particular. And at the same time, it's tearing apart the Democratic Party. And I mean, it's. But it makes sense in a way because Israel is sort of exposing, like, the lies and hypocrisy of both major parties ideology. So if Trump is positioning himself as America first and America's interests first, obviously you have this glaring Israel exception, which just exposes the lie of whether or not his foreign policy is actually about serving the interest of the American people. And you have ancillary problems with cancel culture and things like that. So, you know, for the right, there's a massive tension there where it exposes the hypocrisies of the sort of, like, ruling elites ideology. And obviously on the left with the Democratic Party, these are supposed to be people who care about human rights and, you know, humanitarianism, and they want to be the good guys in the world, etc. And it's like you are funding and supporting a genocide. So what's going on there? So, you know, it's. I guess it would have been hard to predict that Israel would have been the issue that would create these massive fault lines and fissures within both of these coalitions. But when you think it through, it actually makes perfect sense why this is unfolding the way that it ultimately, I totally agree.

[Krystal Ball]

I mean, it's part of the reason we get to work together well on this issue. Right. I mean, it's like, come at it from different angles. You know, I'm not sitting here talking about humanitarianism anywhere. I'm just like, hey, I really want my own country to function on its own terms. Is that too much to ask? I want for my foreign policy to benefit me as a citizen and the rest of our citizens. I don't think it's so much to ask of somebody. Apparently it is. Even when somebody runs on the slogan of America first here. I'm only happy to see that so many young Republicans have changed so much on the issue. And make no mistake, as many of these boomers who are praying at these CUFI conferences to the survival of Israel, who are like, I would die before any Israeli dies. There are plenty of younger Republicans out there, people who grew up on Tucker or any, any of these podcasts, who have very different view on foreign affairs, who actually believe in America first, like as a principle, who are furious. And this is where the Epstein thing goes broader because it's like you said about cancel culture more recently, the Epstein issue is now being used by kind of Zionist forces as a cancel culture issue. They're like, oh, look at these conspiracy theorists. We need to shut down this. I mean, Netanyahu, maybe we can cover this tomorrow. In his interview with Mark Levin said that the, the eighth front war for Israel is now disinformation in the United States of America. And he's like, we must attack it on all fronts. They're being pretty open about all of this. I mean, first of all, let's go to the cabinet member for diaspora. It's like, bro, you are trying to tell Charlie Kirk how to run the TP USA event. You're trying to tell him, a minister of a foreign government, trying to tell him how to run a TPUSA internal geo campaign type event. That's the level of comfort that they have in meddling and kind of lecturing our own affairs. Why? Cuz they've gotten away with it for years, from AIPAC to BDS laws that are on the books. It's all just too much, I hope, for a lot of people.

[Crystal]

But you know, I guarantee that Charlie Kirk has some exposure here though, because I'm sure that he, some of his donors are, you know, significant, committed, ideological Zionists.

[Krystal Ball]

It's not even question. It's obvious. They absolutely do.

[Crystal]

And so Laura Loomer has been waging war against Charlie Kirk for daring to platform such an odious character as Dave Smith or, you know, Tucker. She's actually sharing the clip of Dave from our show critical of Trump, saying this is pro Trump, he's anti Trump, et cetera. But, and she's also making that point of like, you know, your donors were promised one thing and here you are platforming these like, anti Israel voice. So, you know, there's a war that's being waged here at this point on the specific issue of Israel. Now again with Tucker and with many others, you know, the criticism is directly of Israel. There's very light touch where Trump himself is concerned. So that sort of, that is still, if you want to be in good graces in MAGA world, if you want to continue to have access to Trump, et cetera. Obviously, obviously that's still the approach that is taken there. But it was pretty interesting to see these fissures that have opened up at TP USA. And Charlie Kirk, I actually just saw this morning report that Trump had called him and said you need to stop criticizing Pam Bondi in particular because like I said, that was the kind of go to of like, okay, well how are we going to handle this without criticizing Trump? We'll make her the scapegoat. And now that has been taken off the table.

[Krystal Ball]

If I were Charlie, here's what I would tell my donors. My job is to assemble the young right and to kind of get them excited. We cannot do that in an environment where here we have Pew Research in March. Overall opinion of Israel Republicans under 50 50% unfavorable. 50% unfavorable. That was in March of 2025. Pew, same survey. Do you have confidence in Netanyahu to do the right thing? 32% in terms of confidence for young Republicans, this is under 50. I would actually love to see a poll of under 35. Is Israel an ally, friendly, unfriendly or an enemy of the United States states? 20% lower ally rating for the GOP under 45 compared to GOP 65 plus Quinnipiac. Is the US too supportive of Israel? Only 15% of Republicans said that they are, but massively driven at that point by the under 50 category. Let's also remember young Republic, younger people skewed a lot more Republican. In some surveys I've seen, they actually voted more Republican, specifically young men, than either at a majority or any time than ever before. So you cannot say that this is a nothing coalition or at least part of your overall voter base and perhaps future of the entire country. And that's part of why, if TPUSA is to be an honest event, then they have to have at least some representation of this view. Let's go ahead and put B3. We'll go ahead and play this. This was very interesting. And this again, look, for all the influencer talk and all of that, this is just a dude who attended the event. Here's what he had to say about the Epstein thing. We need to enforce the laws of this country. And you know, like you said, Steve.

[Tucker Carlson]

There'S no better question than who rules America. It's not the people. So we need to obviously have the declassification of the. You don't think Donald Trump is president? You would tell Donald Trump in the Oval Office that you think there's an open question with him as commander in.

[Harry Entin]

Chief and doing all he's doing.

[Tucker Carlson]

You would actually tell Trump you don't know. You don't you do you question who rules this country? I definitely would because it's a blackmail ring and anybody who wouldn't is not paying attention. Simply put, Epstein himself said that he was best friends on the stand with Donald Trump. So anybody who thought that these files were going to get just declassified because.

[Krystal Ball]

We pressured him enough or you voted.

[Tucker Carlson]

Harder enough is just lying to yourself.

[Harry Entin]

Frank, do you agree with a special.

[Tucker Carlson]

Prosecutor has to be an independent, special.

[Krystal Ball]

Prosecution prosecutor has to take over.

[Tucker Carlson]

Do you believe that DOJ and FBI.

[Harry Entin]

Right now with the guys who are.

[Tucker Carlson]

All close to Pam Bondi, Dan Bongino.

[Krystal Ball]

Cash Patel, do you think they have any credibility left to pursue this?

[Tucker Carlson]

No. And I'll tell you exactly why, Steve.

[Krystal Ball]

Because in 2016, we trusted the plan with Trump, but now Trump has become.

[Tucker Carlson]

The deep state, the exact thing he.

[Harry Entin]

We voted him in.

[Krystal Ball]

Why?

[Tucker Carlson]

Why do you say why do you.

[Harry Entin]

Say why do you say he's become the deep state?

[Krystal Ball]

What is more deep state than covering up for pedophiles?

[Tucker Carlson]

Why would you go to that island?

[Krystal Ball]

Why?

[Tucker Carlson]

Tell me why would you go to that island?

[Krystal Ball]

Why would you go on the plane? Interesting. Interesting indeed that there's no better representation of modern right wing America than a guy pressing Steve, a Latino young male in a suit at a TP USA conference, pressing Steve Bannon, calling out Donald Trump for being a part of the deep state.

[Crystal]

Well, that is.

[Krystal Ball]

That is the new Republican coalition.

[Crystal]

Steve Bannon has some things to answer for as well.

[Krystal Ball]

That is very weird. I totally agree.

[Crystal]

Yeah, I mean he had his own associations and then did this long.

[Krystal Ball]

These got 15 hours of interview, 16.

[Crystal]

Hours of interview with Epstein that's never been released. So, Steve Bannon, release the files, release the tapes, buddy. Let's see what you got there. I suspect where a lot of this goes ultimately, and you can kind of hear it there in what that individual was saying. I suspect it goes to a place of nihilism. And you kind of hear this from the podcast bros too. Like you said, new boss same as the old boss. This sense. He says this thing of about like, oh, you can't vote hard enough to get a different outcome, et cetera. And I saw the same thing happen on the left after you had first the betrayal of Obama. Then you have the hope of Bernie Sanders, then you have Bernie Sanders defeated. And a sort of sense of a rigged system stacked against you in 2016, 2020. Also a sense that Bernie, in some senses there was like a sense of betrayal around the way he conducted himself and the friendliness towards Biden, et cetera. And a lot of that morphed into a nihilism of just like nothing matters, matters, nothing can change. I can't have any impact. Everyone's always going to betray you. And I suspect that some of this energy, that's exactly where it goes towards. Like I said, I don't. You know, I think, I think with the MAGA influencer world, they're going to get back on board with Trump. He's going to do some crazy shit in the next couple weeks and they're going to be out there, they're going to be defending him, they're going to find some way, you know, whether it's Alex Jones, we'll play this in a little bit out there saying like, oh, it's the Democrats fault. They, they probably rigged the Epstein files to delete anything that looks bad for them and just invent things that look bad for Trump. And so it makes sense that Trump wouldn't release them. They'll come up with some shit to get back on board. I think the podcast Bros Will just become more sort of like nihilistic. Nothing matters. You can't vote your way out of it. Tim Dillon did a whole bit about you've just gotta pick the pedo that is pro business or whatever that is his take on it and for independence. I think this will contribute to already a sense of this isn't really what I wanted in this administration. This is not the guy that I thought he was. He's not the truth teller. He's not delivering on an economic front for me the way that I wanted and just a general sense of sort of decline and disappointment is how I would sort the various buckets of how this will work out.

[Krystal Ball]

That's a really sad story. Don't you think I'm correct? What you're talking about is what led to Bernie Bros. Bernie Bros. Got burned twice, 2016, 2020, and then became Trump Bros. Now, if you've been burned four times in a row, who are you to become in terms of your politics? You start getting pretty angry. That's what led to a lot of radicalization for a lot of people. I mean, I don't know. Honestly, in some ways I almost welcome it at this point because people need to see just exactly how disgusting so many of these politicians are. I can even say this on a personal level. I know some of the people who are involved in the government and all this. And then just to watch it twist and turn and turn into something that, you know, it's not even about promises from a TV screen. I'm talking about years of conversation and all these other things about what a future government looks like and the plan and what and all that. And then you come out with this shit and you're like, oh, this is a tough pill to swallow. It makes you want to become a Zoran Momdani supporter. Or it makes you want to like really look at some radical shit now in the future. That's just me personally and I'm, you know, I'm doing okay now. If you add on top of, of that somebody who you voted for Obama about bailouts and then got burned and voted for Trump in 2016, voted for Trump and. Or maybe Biden in 2020, maybe you sat out that vote 2024, you're disgusted by Biden, you come in and you vote for Trump again. Now you're like 60 years old. What are you gonna think, you know, at that point and you're looking at the Medicaid situation or you're starting to get worried about the country. You take my generation, our generation, the millennial ones. I was just telling you the this morning. 38 years old is now the average price for a first time home buyer in America. You have no stake in the country. Now at this point, how many? I'd have to do the math. If you're 38 years old, how many presidential elections have you voted in? So that's 20 years of being an eligible voter. So maybe three or four presidential elections if you're lucky. I mean, if you vote three or four times and your life actually gets shittier every single time, what path is that going to lead you behind? It doesn't take a genius to figure the stuff out.

[Crystal]

Well, let me just, I want to pick up on that Zoran point and pull that thread a little bit because I think it's interesting because I was saying before, I couldn't have predicted it, but it makes perfect sense that Israel ends up being this key dividing issue in both the Republican coalition and inside of the Democratic coalition. The Democrats are further along in that you have, the Democratic base is like 80% now at this point. We've gotta stop this relation. This is insane. It's a genocide we've gotta stop. And Zoran just had this really significant victory in the city of New York, which is an incredible like it is actually an earth shattering kind of a thing. That he could win as an avowed anti Zionist in New York City is really wild. I think, as I was telling you before, I think in 2028 you're going to have this divide, it's going to be central and Israel stands in as a question of are you your own person, do you have principles or are you just basically controlled?

[Krystal Ball]

Yes.

[Crystal]

And I think it stands in for the same thing on the right Y where there is a risk coalitionally for people who have been, who are young, who are on the right. If you do end up with a Democratic candidate who is anti Zionist and more avowed and has a different position on this, I do actually think it could be a coalitional problem for the young right as this issue has been so central as a stand in for are you a decent person with some basic commitment and principles and can stand on your own. And the reason I say that is like, you see the way Schultz reacted to, to Mamdani where he was like, you know, had some respect for him because of taking that position. It really struck me that the one thing Rogan knew about him was like that moment on the debate stage where he's like, I'm staying here in New York, y' all can go to Israel if you want. And really stood his ground on that particular issue. And so I do think that, you know, surprisingly, and I've said many times like, oh, I don't think this is the way people vote and I don't know how central foreign policy is. I actually do think that this issue has become so divisive and has become such a litmus test that it is shaping politics on both the left and the right in a really profound way.

[Krystal Ball]

Well, you said something important there. You call it a foreign policy issue. It's not a foreign policy issue now. It's a domestic policy issue now. It's about whether you care more about a foreign country than you care about.

[Crystal]

And it's about character.

[Krystal Ball]

And it's about character. So yeah, you can come at it from a variety of different issues. But yeah, I do predict that this will be a problem. Here's Shane Gillis talking about the Trump and Epstein files release. Let's take a listen. That's insane that they're just being like.

[Shane Gillis]

Yeah, no, no, everything was cool above board. Don't worry. Trump, Trump dog. Yeah, it's tough not to point some fingers. Huge crazy got killed while you were president.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah.

[Shane Gillis]

And you were there, you got.

[Krystal Ball]

I mean there's so many photos of them chilling.

[Shane Gillis]

Allegedly hung with a staff. The cope on Trump's Innocent is pretty intense.

[Krystal Ball]

Somebody brought it up at a meeting and Trump was like, are you guys still talking about Epstein?

[Shane Gillis]

It's like, that's crazy. There's so much other stuff going on. I can't believe you're bringing up Epstein scene.

[Crystal]

Are you serious?

[Shane Gillis]

God, get a life. You guys are obsessed with this.

[Krystal Ball]

What the.

[Shane Gillis]

No one even cares. Yeah, it's so long ago. The guy killed himself and he was innocent.

[Krystal Ball]

What the hell? They're probably all sexual blackmailed.

[Shane Gillis]

Like sexually blackmailed.

[Krystal Ball]

So there we go. Checking in on. On Shane Gillis and. And Matt McCusker, friend of the show by the way. We love Matt over here. But listen, I mean it's not going away. That's going to be there. I haven't. Tim Dillon has weighed in. The flagrant podcast is to be going weighed in. I don't know if Theo has yet. I'm sure there'll be something good coming. Hopefully we see something interesting from Joe as well, you know, all on the issue. So that would. I think that's the trifecta, right. In terms of. I'm trying to do the math. I can't think of any other large podcasts that Trump went on, I guess.

[Crystal]

No.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, sorry, I apologize.

[Crystal]

Have we gotten there sit down with Bibi yet?

[Krystal Ball]

Still haven't gotten there. BB Sit down. I've been checking for it. I'm waiting on you. Steiny, where are you man? What's happening? You know, I still can't believe that happened, but yeah, I'm trying to think outside of Nelk. Maybe barstool. I think he went on bussin which I don't know if it's with barstool anymore. Well, they're more.

[Crystal]

Portnoy's very pro Israel, isn't he?

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, but I'm saying the podcast he went on was not. I think they left barstool but it's more sports related so I'm not sure.

[Crystal]

But I mean I think Portnoy does fit in that sphere though of like the bro podcaster. Yeah, definitely on the other side.

[Krystal Ball]

Well the thing is Portnoy is very pro Israel so that's part of the problem. He's been attacking actually Andrew Schultz publicly saw that about the thing, which is pretty funny. But I mean, I guess that's more of a separate issue. But if you guys wanna see the cope, it's connected. If you guys all wanna see the cope, here's Alex Jones actually giving Trump some of the benefit of the doubt on the issue.

[Shane Gillis]

This is a giant fiasco. I'm trying to call balls and strikes. I'm trying to look at every angle of this and understand what's happening, understand why the Trump administration did a 1A the last few months and particularly the last few week and did this and then blames loyal supporters who support the overall agenda as being traitorous for doing this. Now we all know what triggered this. It was Elon two months ago saying, look, Trump's in the list and that big breakup there. And then Trump wants it closed, he wants it shut down, which looks extremely, extremely incriminating. But from all my deep research, never saw Trump involved in any illegal activity, which Jeffrey Epstein. I didn't even think about the fact. I'm like, oh yeah, if they've had the list and they've had the files for years, the Democrats would take stuff out, destroy it. Well, that's obvious. They would leave in and twist and put in what they wanted. They have a long history of false documents, reports, you know, crossfire, hurricane. The list goes on and on. This is not going away. It's only blown up 10 times bigger. It's out of control. And this was so obvious a week ago. People said, oh, you're being a traitor, saying this being a big issue. No, I'm seasoned, I'm informed, I'm involved, I know what's going on.

[Krystal Ball]

Got it, Alex. Seasoned, really, really getting to the bottom of it here. We also have Scott Adams. We could put this up there on the screen. He says, must be juicy and dangerous stuff in those files. But I don't feel the need to be a backseat driver on this topic. Four leaders. I trust that it's time to let it go. They want what is best for America and they have their reasons. I don't need to check their work.

[Crystal]

Not in a cold when you're definitely not in a cold.

[Krystal Ball]

That is such like, yeah, let's just weigh on that for a second. Cuz this is very predominant amongst maga during Iran and now during this. It's about trusting the plan. It's about trusting Donald Trump. Even J.D. he's like, Trump has earned the trust on this issue. And it's like, no, he's not. And by the way, if we look at it, the neocons did not trust Trump. Whenever Trump was going in the diplomatic direction, they were like, Steve Wykoff is a Qatari asset and Trump is betraying Israel and all. But then the moment that he's going in their direction. They're like, oh, you gotta sit down and you gotta trust Trump. This is part of the reason why if you're not willing to actually just be honest and be genuinely critical, you're gonna get nowhere in a political movement. You gotta kick up a fuss and actually kick some shit around. But this whole like, oh, you gotta trust and all that, it's cultish behavior. I mean, how did it work out for the leftists who trusted Obama? I mean, if Ryan were here, I'd love to talk to him. That was part of the pushback they would always get is they're like, what, you guys don't trust us and Ryan and the movie? Like, no, we don't trust you on bank bailouts or any of this other stuff. After a while it's like, fool me once, fool me twice, then it's on me. That's really what's happened at this point. So.

[Crystal]

Yeah, well, leftists didn't really exist at that point in America, but it was like the liberals. I mean, I was at MSNBC at the time and that was the ethos. Cause if Obama's doing it, it would be good. And. And yeah, there were very few who actually remained principled during that time period and would say no, I said it was against drone wars during the Bush administration. I'm still against drone wars. You know, I just want. On the Alex Jones thing, I guess. Apparently he cried. He puked.

[Krystal Ball]

Yes.

[Crystal]

And then he realized the truth, which is this is actually all the Democrats fault. He's just trying to call balls and strikes here. He's never seen. And this will be a good segue into the night. He's never seen any evidence that Trump had any involvement. So can't be that. Put that on if you're mind Sagar and Kennedy must be the Democrats fault. Even though Epstein killed himself while Trump was president the first time. Oh, isn't that interesting. We've got one more for you here. We didn't put up cat turd yet, did we?

[Krystal Ball]

Yes. No we did not.

[Crystal]

We've got a cat turd we can throw up on the screen. Good night everyone. My advice is to mute or block all negative black pill accounts. It's amazing how successful the first six months of the Trump administration have has been. Don't let these sourpuss chronic complainers hijack your happiness. Why are you hijacking their happiness? How dare you. Be positive we're winning. Have a great Saturday night. So you know, you'll see like they're gonna most of the, like hardcore MAGA influencers, they'll come around to something approaching this. A lot of the MAGA faithful, they will stay in line, et cetera. But you're so right about the different buckets.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, exactly.

[Crystal]

You know, hardcore magic maga, they're gonna be with Laura Loomer. They're gonna figure out a way to rationalize it. It's the Democrats fault. This was all a trap set up by Barack Obama somehow, some way. And yeah, it must be that the Democrats just like rigged this thing to destroy Trump or we should just trust him and don't ask too many questions. Most of the MAGA faithful will end up there. And then the people who are sort of more unaligned, independent whatever, who were influenced by the BRO podcast and vote based on more or less vibes, I think it'll be significant for them, I do. And I think it will sow a level of distrust and sort of disappointment in this administration in the direction that it has gone in because it was such a core article of faith that he would be the guy to expose the files. And not only is he not doing that, not only is he part of the COVID up, but he looks guilty as hell. And there's a lot of reasons to believe that potentially he is guilty as hell.

[Krystal Ball]

Yeah, that's an important trend. Before we get to that, that's such important. And I want to drive it home for everybody because recently someone was like, well, you speak to maga, right? And I was like, what? What are you talking about? I was like, no, I don't. And they're like, oh, well, who do you think that you quote, speak to? And I was like, to the extent that I speak to anybody, it's on our audience, which if we look at our breakdown, is like basically all over the place in terms of politics and is roughly between the ages of 18 and 45, who I would consider. I mean, look, if you're watching this show, you're watching a lot of news and politics, you're probably in the top 5, 10, 10% of consumers of news in the United States, which is great. We're very happy to have you. It makes you a little bit more atypical, but you're more gonna be in that independent type category. People are willing to be swayed and look all over the place. And I said, I can only speak to that because I would say that's the only thing I'm an expert in or whatever, to the extent that that even exists. And I think that's a big deal. Right. And so that's what I just wanna drive home. And look, the Trump administration, the Trump campaign used that audience and really won a lot of them over. I don't think it's deniable from the 2024 election. So to have them turn against you, especially after you celebrated the podcast election vibes and all that you made all media's dead, et cetera, well then you are now in a position where you are supposed to pay attention. So they're either irrelevant or they're not. And they weren't irrelevant whenever you needed their votes and their platforms and their millions of views, et cetera. So I would just put it that way. You know, when we talk about politically, and this is, oh, the MAGA base, there's a lot of confusion. The MAGA base is like a 65 year old guy in Florida who owns a plumbing business and a boat and with a giant flag on the back. And I'll never let you forget it, that's what the MAGA base is. It's not. That guy at the tpusa, the Latino guy who maybe was a Democrat eight years ago, who's now a Republican at a TPUSA event, that's somebody who, I've got a little bit common ground, or at least I know where this person comes from.

[Crystal]

I guess you could imagine that guy watching.

[Krystal Ball]

Exactly. Of course, absolutely. By the way, we're happy to have you. Mr. We're happy to have you.

[Crystal]

Last reflection on this and then we'll get to some of the direct Trump questions here. You said that you feel like the podcast bros probably feel like they were used. Yeah, I hope they do, because they were. I mean, they were like, Trump knew he could go on there or JD Vance could go on there or whatever and they would get just like friendly a hearing and it would humanize them. And it was just sort of a chill hangout for a few hours and they wouldn't get any like really tough questions. At a time when Trump was being called an extremist and a fascist, this would be a way to be like, look at this guy, he's like hanging out with Rogan, he's hanging out with Theo Vaughan, whoever. He can't be a fascist. That's preposterous. So they were used. And I hope that there is some thought that goes into that because you do when you have a large platform, I do think that comes with some level of responsibility to like, this is a person who wants to be in the most powerful position on the planet. Do a little bit of read, like, do a Little bit of prep. No, you're not Barbara Walters or Jake Tapper or whatever, but you can ask them tough questions.

[Krystal Ball]

It can be a balance.

[Crystal]

These are smart individuals, they're not stupid. My personal view is if you're smart enough to be like funny on command, you are an intelligent person.

[Krystal Ball]

Totally.

[Crystal]

And so if you're gonna dabble in that world, bother to do your home and hold yourself to a standard. So you said, you know, you think next time, if there is a next time, it's going to be a different tenor. And that's a good thing. I agree, that's a good thing. So, you know, I hope it's a learning experience, I guess what I'm saying. Because if you're going to have someone in a position of power or aspiring to a position of power on your platform, you have a significant platform. There is some responsibility, some journalistic responsibility, even if you're not a journalist, is my view. And like you said, it doesn't have to be a grilling for three hours or whatever, but some difficult questions with some challenging follow ups, I think is a sort of bare minimum that should be ultimately expected here. And the good thing about those platforms is that unlike the MAGA influencer world, where the only reason that some of these people are relevant is because of their sick fancy, because of their proximity to Trump, these guys don't need Trump. They got their own audiences, they're doing their own thing. There's not the same level of connect where they have to be on Trump's good side in order to make a living and be funny and have their own audience. So that creates some possibilities here that I think is a positive.

[Krystal Ball]

I have a lot more thoughts on this. It's actually a very interesting conversation. I think 2024 was a very interesting moment in time. It was unique and it will never happen again. Both because it was almost exclusively a right wing thing about going on podcast. There will never be an election again where there's not at least some leading contender which is not going on. I mean, look at the Buttigieg episode. You'd be an idiot not to go on Flair or look at Ro Khannah on Theo Von or any of these other people. You're dumb if you're not doing this. So first of all, there's that. And then second is the tenor of the convo is gonna be very different, in my opinion from going forward or maybe I'm hoping coping and coping.

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[Krystal Ball]

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[Krystal Ball]

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[Krystal Ball]

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[Harry Entin]

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[Krystal Ball]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

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