← Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
7/16/25: Trump Says Bad People Care About Epstein, Alex Jones Meltdown, 3% Satisfied With Epstein Handling
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- [00:00]
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Christina Quinn
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- [01:05]
Ryan Grim
Is Ryan here? And I have a question for you. What do you do when you win? Like are you a fist pumper?
- [01:11]
Christina Quinn
A woohooer?
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Ryan Grim
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- [01:34]
Sagar Enjeti
Apply hey guys, Sagar and Krystal here.
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Christina Quinn
Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.
- [01:43]
Sagar Enjeti
This is the only place where you.
- [01:44]
Ryan Grim
Can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.
- [01:49]
Christina Quinn
So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.
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Sagar Enjeti
We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we.
- [02:03]
Ryan Grim
Hope to see you@breakingpoints.com.
- [02:08]
Sagar Enjeti
Welcome to Breaking Points. Crystal, thanks so much for jumping in for Ryan this morning. He is in Dublin.
- [02:15]
Christina Quinn
My pleasure.
- [02:16]
Sagar Enjeti
Where else would he be?
- [02:17]
Christina Quinn
Yeah, he's doing some interesting things there too. I don't know if we can reveal yet but there will be more news on that later.
- [02:22]
Sagar Enjeti
Yes, absolutely. So we have a show that is, I regret to inform everyone, front loaded with more Epstein news because the Trump administration continues to flail and MAGA continues to be divided over the Epstein question. So we have more comments from the president to get to, more comments from members of Congress, including the speaker of the House to get to and people sort of on the outside, MAGA supporters on the outside who are having a tough time with this one. And Crystal, new inflation numbers were out yesterday. Some debate over whether they were good or bad for the administration politically and whether they were good or bad for the American people substantively. That we will get to the most depressing article that I have read in quite a while, Crystal, on why first time homeownership in the US Is at a record low. We're going to break down some of that along with about a viral clip from Tucker Carlson that sort of spoke to exactly this from the Turning Point USA summit. And of course the Pentagon is now in business with grok. Did you? Yeah, that's what you expected.
- [03:26]
Christina Quinn
Mecca. Mecca Hitler has taken the Pentagon. That's what's happening here apparently.
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Sagar Enjeti
But actually this is a real story. The Pentagon has signed a contract with X to use GROK for government. So we have all of the details on that story and we are very excited. We've been trying for days to get in the Superman block. You can see that on the bottom of your screen because producer Griffin and Crystal have just so very many thoughts. Ben Shapiro thoughts too, I was going.
- [03:55]
Christina Quinn
To say, as does Ben Shapiro. His are a little different than ours, but we'll get into all of that. Yeah, well, you know, when I see, when I get to see a movie in the theaters, it's a very rare and exciting thing. So I have to talk about it. And especially when it's a movie that's as Hasan Piker put it, two hours of F Israel is basically we're going to try to keep it spoiler free, but there's actually a lot of very interesting political dynamics going on the movie that are worth digging into. So Griffin will join us for that. So that should be fun.
- [04:21]
Sagar Enjeti
And we do always think of producer Griffin as like the Ben Shapiro of our operation. So it makes sense that we'll have him.
- [04:28]
Christina Quinn
The parallels are striking on every level.
- [04:30]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, it's incredibly similar. People are around. So as a reminder, breaking points for premium subscription. If you can't subscribe, no problem. Just subscribe to the subscribe on the channel here. Like the videos. We appreciate it so much. And let's start with the President himself. Weighing in more on the case of Jeffrey Epstein. Donald Trump kept getting questions, of course, because there's so much confusion radiating forth from his administration. Partially why these questions are totally fair and will not go away for the Trump administration. So let's roll a one. This is Trump asking, answering some questions. Just yesterday.
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Ryan Grim
She's given us just a very quick briefing. And in terms of the credibility of the different things that they've seen, and I would say that, you know, these files were made up by Comey, they were made up by Obama, they were made up by the Biden. You know, we. And we went through years of that with the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax, with all of the different things that we had to go through. We've gone through, through years of it. But she's handled it very well, and it's going to be up to her. Whatever she thinks is credible, she should release. I don't understand it, why they would be so interested. He's dead for a long time. He was never a big factor in terms of life. I don't understand what the interest or what the fascination is. I really don't. And the credible information's been given. Don't forget, we went through years of the Mueller witch hunt and all of the different things. The Steele dossier, which was all fake, all that information was fake. But I don't understand why the Jeffrey Epstein case would be of interest to anybody. It's pretty boring stuff. It's sordid, but it's boring. And I don't understand why it keeps going. I think really, only pretty bad people, including fake news, want to keep something like that going. But credible information, let them give it. Anything that's credible, I would say let them have it.
- [06:35]
Sagar Enjeti
All right, so I'm actually going to respond to that clip with a reaction from Ann Coulter, who said, ex ante, I'd say Trump did not rape underage girls. But when he slings bullshit like this, you have to wonder. In quotes, Trump saying Epstein files were written by Obama, crooked Hillary, Comey, Brennan, the losers and criminals of the Biden administration. Coulter then responds, everything we know about Epstein's teen sex ring comes from the Palm beach police. And the girls themselves. Dems ferociously protected Epstein, a major Dem donor. But Crystal, that is true. Everything we know about Epstein for the most part, is coming from the Palm beach, the local Palm beach police and the girls themselves. We have gotten trickles of information that are frustratingly limited, actually, from the federal government. So it's a. I also saw, I don't know if you Saw this as well. Megyn Kelly reporting that she's been told by several people whether or not it's true. Several people have said that the files on Epstein were left in such a way that pointed right at Donald Trump, which could mean a lot of things. It could mean funny business going on, it could mean that they're there when it comes to Donald Trump. But I think that's where this has just opened up an entirely new chapter in Trump's response to the Epstein chaos of Pam Bondi's doj, which is now saying that this is part of actually a different kind of deep state plot to frame Donald Trump.
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Christina Quinn
Yeah, I mean, there is so much to say about those two clips we've just played of Trump. First of all, no one is buying the Obama wrote the Epstein files line is just utterly preposterous. Number two, now he's calling his own supporters bad people for caring about an elite sex crimes ring against young girls with potential intel tie in and, you know, implicating any number potentially of powerful figures says that that is boring and can't understand why that is interesting to anyone. Number three, the optics there of that second clip where, you know, he's saying, oh, it's boring and you're a bad person if you still care about this. You got Howard Lutnick standing there who, lo and behold, actually purchased one of Jeffrey Epstein's properties in Manhattan, was his longtime neighbor. So, you know, just optically not the best there. He's sort of like chuckling along with what Trump has to say there. And it really is so perplexing and hard to explain outside of, I mean, Occam's razor is that he's reacting in this frenetic, insane and incredibly, if he just wants us to go away, he's doing the polar opposite of making this away go away because he's worried about what information might come out. Like that is the very obvious conclusion. The number of people, Sagar included, by the way, who have said, you know, I didn't really think there was there there in terms of Trump until I saw the way he reacted to this. And now it's like, I don't know. And then you start to go back and think about all of the connections and the videos and the flight logs and the, you know, there was actually civil suit that named him. Now that went away. Maybe it's because there was nothing there and so that just, you know, sort of disappeared. But you got Epstein saying that they were besties for a decade. You got Trump on the record in an infamous quote saying, hey, we were good friends for 15 years, and, hey, he likes them young. He loves beautiful women maybe as much as me. I do. And many of them are on the younger side. So it's not at all preposterous to say what the hell is going on here. And as we discussed yesterday, you know, to be perfectly blunt about this, yes, the American people have a direct interest in knowing whether Mossad has pedo blackmail material on the President of the United States. So I don't think this is going away. The other thing I've been thinking about is, you know, Trump likes these sort of, like, humiliation rituals for his. For the people in his circle to sort of force them into situations that are, like, embarrassing, go against things that they previously said. So a couple of examples. You had RFK Jr eating the McDonald's on the plane, right? You had JD Vance being forced to stand behind him as he announces the Iran strike, obviously something that J.D. vance was supposedly going to be against. And there are many other examples of that. This almost feels like a humiliation ritual for his supporters. You know, like, how far can I go in, like, directly attacking you and gaslighting you that this isn't something that I ran on and that my vice president wasn't out there campaigning on to get elected? It almost feels like that. It feels like a test of the base of, like, how far can I go? Can I really shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and you idiots are still going to stick with me? That's kind of the vibe that I get from all of this. It's, it's, it's actually quite twisted.
- [11:12]
Sagar Enjeti
That's a really, I think that's a really interesting take because there's something, I mean, also, Trump, Pam Bondi have known each other. Trump and Pambandi have known each other for a really long time. So I wonder also if, I mean, obviously his original plan was to put Matt Gaetz in that role. I don't think any of us are buying the, like, 4D chess intentional nomination of Matt Gaetz to, like, have Pam Bondi come into that role. But I think he also just seems to trust that she's protecting, like, because of the way she's doubled and tripled down. It is kind of humiliating, of course, for someone who came in and was promising all of this transparency. But it is, it's also her demonstrating loyalty over and over again and being forced to demonstrate that loyalty in more sort of increasingly vociferous terms.
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Christina Quinn
Well, and Bongino and Cash, too. I mean, the reports are Bongino is back in the office and whatever mental health day he took has restored him to full Trump sycophancy. And you know, these are two guys who made a living off of delving into, you know, some of the theories around Epstein. And so for them as well, like if they'll do this, they will def. They will do anything.
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Sagar Enjeti
So let's move on to this vote in Congress. Yesterday there was a vote in committee people may have heard about. This was Rules Committee day before. We had Ro Khanna on, obviously to talk about. He tried to get in a quick vote, a procedural vote basically to include this. It would have forced disclosure on Epstein files within 30 days and demanded that they start preserving all files related to Epstein. That failed in committee. Then Democrats tried to force vote on a rule that would have opened debate on another Epstein very similar Epstein piece of legislation. So we can go ahead and take a look at this next video.
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Ryan Grim
On this vote, the yeas are 211, the nays are 210. The previous question is ordered. The question is on adoption of the resolution. Those in favor say aye. Those opposed say no. In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it.
- [13:20]
Sagar Enjeti
So I have to say I actually talked to Stubby right after that happened and some other members of Congress and also Marjorie Taylor Greene, Anna Paulina Luna, some of these super maga people who have been all over the Epstein case. Marjorie Taylor Greene certainly. And they said they're more than happy basically to keep voting on this. Like Thomas Massie has a bill. We'll see where that goes. Mike Johnson yesterday, we have more from him too. So I don't think they necessarily. They have this like whole crypto package that they're. It's all very disgusting, the crypto week. Have you seen any of their like, crypto week stuff?
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Christina Quinn
It's like, yeah, I hate it. It's terrible. And we're chilling. It's actually doing a little bit less well in the House, apparently. I haven't followed it super closely, but some of the terrible crypto legislation failed to meet some like key procedural hurdle yesterday. So that's good. And Democrats have been more united, not uniformly, I think, like Richie Torres and so and Josh Gottheimer and some like the worst Democrats out there are in favor of it. But there's been less Democratic support in the House than there was in the Senate. So that's at least somewhat encouraging. But listen, on this thing, you had a party line unanimous vote where Republicans were against even opening debate on the release of the Epstein files. So, you know I'm sure they're going to spin in. They have their excuses of, oh, this didn't make sense to do with crypto Week, or blah, blah, blah. But at the end of the day, y' all voted against even debating whether the Epstein file should be released. After running around for years, you know, posturing like, you wanted transparency and you cared about this. So I think it's very hard to see it any other way.
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Sagar Enjeti
Happy Crypto Week to all who celebrate. Have to get that out here.
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Christina Quinn
Well, so let's get your attention on this matter.
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Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, let's get into Mike Johnson, actually, because this was. I think this is significant. We'll see. But some Republicans are calling for Ghislaine Maxwell to testify. Mike Johnson himself obviously will have some control over whether or not Bill like Congressman Khanna's is passed or Congressman Thomas Massie's is passed. He'll have the.
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Christina Quinn
I think they're working to gather on it, aren't they? I think it's a Massie Khanna effort at this point.
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Sagar Enjeti
Perfect. You love to hear it. And that's the type of thing that Mike Johnson will have control over, getting to the actual voting process onto the floor of the House. And so he was talking to Benny Johnson yesterday also. Tim Burchett, let's go ahead and roll A four.
- [15:40]
Ryan Grim
I'm for transparency. We're intellectually consistent in this. We. Look, Reagan used to tell us we should trust the American people. I believe in that principle. I know President Trump does as well, and I trust him. I mean, he put together a team of his choosing, and they're doing a great job. It's a very delicate subject, but we should. We should put everything out there and let the people decide it. I mean, the White House and the White House team are privy to facts that I don't know. I mean, this isn't my lane. I haven't been involved in that. But. But I agree with the sentiment that we need to. We need to put it out there. And. And, you know, Pam Bondi, I don't know when she originally made the statement. I think she was talking about documents. As I understood it, they were on her desk. I don't know that she was specific about a list or whatever, but she needs to come forward and explain that to everybody. I like Pam. I mean, I think she's done a good job. We need the DOJ focusing on the major priorities. So let's get this thing resolved so that they can deal with violent crime and public safety and election integrity and going after Act Blue and the things that the president is most about as we are. So I'm anxious to get this behind. I'm not an attorney. I just find them guilty and hang them publicly. I mean, I'm not. That's not over the top either. I'm ready. I'm over it. I'm big on clarity and transparency. And, you know, that's a good reason people don't trust government, either party.
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Sagar Enjeti
Crystal, that was a good one. Just hang him. Is that what he said?
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Christina Quinn
Yeah. And then, you know, shortly after thereafter, votes against even debating the release of the files. I mean, that's. It's hard to take them seriously in their language here when the voting record at this point says something very different.
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Sagar Enjeti
They can put up. I mean, that's like they. If they want to dispel people's deep skepticism, they can move to start tackling some of these bills and to start pressuring transparency. Mike Johnson said in a statement towards the end of the day, all House Republicans are for truth and transparency, and we know President Trump can be trusted to make the right decisions, to stand for justice and to protect the innocent. Now, Crystal, what's interesting about that, a couple of things. First of all, the next sentence is, literally, I'm thankful for President Trump getting involved tonight to ensure that we can pass the Genius act tomorrow and agreeing again to help us advance additional crypto legislation in the coming days. Much more to come. Exclamation point. So pivoting, I mean, I thought pivoting to crypto was a ridiculous look. Of course. I mean, I think that just comes across as ridiculous to a lot of people. But also this, them saying we're punting to trusting Donald Trump. It's something that we've covered over the last couple of days, and it is not going to be enough for their critics in any way whatsoever to just say, we don't have to do anything in Congress because Republicans in Congress trust Donald Trump. If that's the party line that they're landing on, that's going to be a tough one.
- [18:32]
Christina Quinn
Yeah, no, that seems like where they are is they'll say on one side of their mouth, I believe in transparency, and on the other, the other side, they'll say, but I trust Trump. And Trump is obviously against transparency at this point in time, but increasingly, I just trust Trump is where they are landing and certainly where they. We know from reporting, the White House is telling people that's where you need to be. Stop undercutting Pam Bondi. Stop criticizing Dan and Cash. Stop with your even talking about this, if you're still talking about this, you are a bad person and you're giving cover to Obama and crooked Hillary and Jim Comey somehow who allegedly now wrote the Epstein files. Like it's just preposterous. So I think that is where congressional Republicans are hoping. They're hoping this all just sort of goes away and dies down. And now on the other side, you've got partisan motivation from Democrats who I think it's fair to say showed very little at the congressional level. I think, I think this has not been a left right issue at the level of the American people. It has become a right wing coded issue because it was sort of like lumped in with the QAnon bucket, even though that is, you know, wildly unfair. But there was mass public interest across the board, regardless of political ideology, as one would expect with, you know, such a horrific and potentially consequential situation. But it's certainly fair to say Democrats in Congress didn't show too much interest when it was Biden, the White House, but now they have, they smell blood in the water and they have a partisan interest in doing everything they can to keep this thing going. And so Ro Khanna was first down to the gates with that amendment that got voted down nearly a party line vote. There was actually one Republican who crossed over, I'm forgetting his name, who crossed over and voted alongside with Roe. Otherwise it was a party line vote. And we talked to him yesterday, he said, no, we're not letting this go. I'm not letting this go. He's working with Thomas Massie to move forward. Massie's already on the ounces, so he's already in YOLO mode, you know, having millions dropped on him in a primary challenge, whatever. So I don't expect there to be a let up for a while, especially since Trump keeps like Streisand affecting himself to death on this one. Every time he makes some new preposterous comment, you know, it gives everyone an excuse to continue talking about it and as they should because as I said, like, it can be easy to dismiss this as, oh, he, well, he's dead, why do you even care? Blah, blah, blah. But it has potential current consequences for our foreign policy, not to mention having a system of justice that is not two tier where elites can just get away with the most horrific crimes imaginable and have it swept under the rug.
- [21:11]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, that's well said. I mean, I think it's because first of all, current, foreign, current potential foreign policy implications of this. Secondly, you have, this is completely like roiling the administration. So there's questions about what's happening behind closed doors, whether the attorney general is long for this administration, all of those things, completely important conversations. And the story matters to people as a sort of proxy question of trust that a lot of people, this was one of the issues that brought them along to place their trust in Donald Trump. It's not everyone and it wasn't anyone's top priority for the most part. But it was one of those things that said you're an insider versus an outsider. And now Democrats have all kinds of political incentives to start pursuing a question that they will be rewarded by voters with trust if they do a good job holding the Trump administration's feet to the fire.
- [22:09]
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- [24:38]
Sagar Enjeti
I actually want to roll a seven. Crystal. Because I mentioned it. It goes along with Mike Johnson. When Benny Johnson asked House Speaker Mike Johnson whether or not Ghislaine Maxwell should testify, he basically said everything people heard, he said everything should be out there. I'm all for transparency. Attorney General Pam Bondi should come forward and explain herself. Explain herself and tell us what happened. Mike Lee also talked to Benny Johnson yesterday and said Ghislaine Maxwell should testify. Let's roll a seven.
- [25:05]
Ryan Grim
You be in favor of Julian Maxwell testifying? Absolutely. Absolutely. I've posted on this, and if, if she were to testify, I, I think she could answer a lot of questions that could help put all of this in perspective. Yeah, I, I know a lot of these players. Some of them are disagreeing with each other. Dan Bongino and I have been really good friends for the last 14 years and good friends with Cash Patel and also with Pam Bondi. I like all of them. I think there is a way to. To draw a straight line between all of them in a way that will satisfy the public's both curiosity and legitimate demand to know what happened.
- [25:42]
Sagar Enjeti
Okay, so Republicans control the House and the Senate and, of course, the presidency as well. So Ball is in their court, it's in the court of Republican leadership to make some of this happen.
- [25:53]
Christina Quinn
Yeah. And there's some interesting things going on with Ghislaine Maxwell right, at this point, because she had an appeal all the way up to the Supreme Court that had gotten sort of pushed off till now, where the government had to respond to how they were handling this appeal. And basically, I mean, it's like, like this woman is a horrifying sex criminal and implicated in every way in this web of, you know, like a pyramid scheme of pedophilia and molestation. She should just justifiably spend the rest of her life in prison. But what she's saying is, hey, you guys, the government made this sweetheart deal with Jeffrey Epstein down in Florida under Alex Acosta, who of course ends up being Trump's Labor Secretary. Part of that deal was that all of the co Conspirators of Jeffrey Epstein are off the hook forever. And I was one of those co conspirators. So how can you really prosecute me? How can you throw me in prison when you guys agreed to this deal that said anyone who was affiliated with Epstein and implicated in these crimes was off the hook. So that's the appeal that she's making to the Supreme Court. We received, we got an interesting statement from her family that we can put up on the screen here. They say our sister Ghislaine did not receive a fair trial. Her legal team continues to fight her case in the courts and will file its reply in short order to the government's opposition in the U.S. supreme Court if necessary. In due course, they'll also file a writ of habeas corpus in the US District Court. Sdny. This allows her to challenge her imprisonment on the basis of new evidence, such as government misconduct that would have likely changed the trial's outcome. Following the government's response, David Oscar Marcus, counsel of record for our sister, in her petition of the US Supreme Court, had this comment, quote, I'd be surprised if President Trump knew his lawyers were asking the Supreme Court to let the government break a deal. And this is in reference to that sweetheart deal that Alex Acosta made. He's the ultimate dealmaker, and I'm sure he'd agree that when the US Gives its word, it should keep it. With all the talk about who's being prosecuted and who isn't, it's especially unfair that Ghislaine Maxwell remains in prison based on a promise the US Government made and broke. These are sentiments the family says, with which we profoundly concur. So a sort of direct appeal there to Trump himself, who, of course, we played, you know, some of the footage from yesterday. Whenever he's got gotten asked about Ghislaine Maxwell and what he wants to happen for her trial, for her being in prison, he always says, well, I wish her well. And we also have, you know, reporting that allegedly he was considering a pardon for her because he was concerned about what potential information she may have.
- [28:32]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, this is a really interesting development because if she can successfully make this case and people have questions, I think rightfully, about the way her trial was conducted, not because it was too harsh on Ghislaine Maxwell and too focused on locking her up, but rather in the other direction. So either way, if she's able to get this taken seriously, this opens up a lot, and it actually comports with the story in the Daily Mail that we covered earlier this week. Crystal, about how Ghislaine Maxwell is telegraphing through an anonymous source to the Daily Mail that she would be willing to talk. Again, you have to take it with a giant grain of salt, but it seems more and more like this is actually plausible that we would start to hear directly from her.
- [29:20]
Christina Quinn
Yeah, well, I mean, if. If she does have some damaging information about the President, it's an intelligent chess move because if she's, she's obviously looking to posture to try to get that pardon from Trump. And so this is sort of the threat of, hey, I could. I could testify to Congress. And, you know, right now, sure, Republicans have control of the House and the Senate, but very, very, I would say, likely after the midterms, Democrats are gonna at least have control of the House. So, you know, that opens up a whole other world of possibilities. And so I think there's some, you know, some. Some tactical chess playing going on here from the Ghislaine Maxwell side. And the last thing I'll say about this is just underscores how absolutely, absurdly, outrageously disgusting that sweetheart deal was that it would even be theoretically possible that this woman could get off the hook because of this deal that was made. And just so people recall, I mean, Epstein got a slap on the wrist. You know, it was. The charges were pretty minor charges. He served a sentence out being able to leave on quote, unquote, work release for 12 hours a day where he was able to go and do whatever he wanted. I think he served about 13 months on that cushy work release situation where his cell door was open, he had a TV, he could come and go. And then after 13 months, he just was out. I mean, he reporting suggests that even though he was supposed to be just in his house, like under, you know, home confinement, he was traveling the world and right back to doing everything that he wanted to do. And when the law enforcement, like maybe that. I'm not sure if it was the FBI. I don't want to implicate the wrong law enforcement agency here. But when they were told, hey, this guy is leaving, he's not staying on home confinement, they were like, yeah, he's a celebrity. What can we do? He's a celebrity. What can we do?
- [31:11]
Sagar Enjeti
Many such cases, Many such cases, sadly. So let's take a look at a nine. This is Scott Jennings Crystal. We were talking about how some people who are sort of in situations where I feel like you can tell people who just don't care about Epstein, they think it's a weird conspiracy theory, and it's not something that's on their radar that they've spent a great deal of time taking, thinking about. And now they're forced to kind of talk about it a lot over the course of the last week on TV or radio or wherever. And I think maybe you could put Scott Jennings in that category. And here's where Scott Jennings and other Republicans are landing. This is a 9 taken as an.
- [31:51]
Ryan Grim
Article of faith for many years that what was that? You know, that the idea that there's information that we're not seeing as the general public and people said that bought into it. And so Donald Trump wins the election. He appoints Pam Bondi, he appoints Dan Bongino. He points Cash Patel. These are all people that the same audience has, you know, confidence in. We trust their judgment. And I think it's just hard sometimes to believe something for a long time and then be told, you know, what, what we believed is is not the case. There are certainly people that have legitimate questions about what happened. I mean, I've heard now two lawyers, both your guest tonight, and Arthur Ayadollah, who I was on with Friday night, both raised questions about whether they believe he even committed suicide. So you can see they're actually, you know, in the know, people who are still raising legitimate questions about this case. You can see why the general public would also have those questions. At the same time, you know, if you vote for Donald Trump and you have trust in his judgment and the people he's appointed, at some point you have to trust their judgment. I mean, you put them in charge of this. And, and I think what Doug said is important to know. The Biden people had this stuff. If there was something incriminating about Trump, it would have come out. And also now the Trump people have this stuff and there's something incriminating about, you know, Bill Gates or Bill Clinton, it would certainly have come out. And so I guess at some juncture, if you trust the people that you voted for, you trust the people that you voted for.
- [33:07]
Sagar Enjeti
And just quickly on that point, Crystal, I've heard it a couple of times that if the Biden administration had something on Donald Trump, don't you think it would have come out? That's a line actually that a lot of Republicans have used in recent days. And I think you can, logically, it's like, okay, maybe there's something to that. But then it's like, actually they, I mean, these political elite circles are fairly small, and it's possible that whatever implicated Donald Trump would also implicate Democratic donors would also implicate power brokers who are in Dem circles. Donald Trump himself was in Dem power broker circles in the 80s and 90s, like he was somebody who was giving money to Democrats. So it's actually there's, I see why they're rolling with that line, but if there's, there's a bunch of information in the files that are devastating for the Clintons at the same time that they're devastating to Donald Trump, potentially, that to me actually doesn't make a lot of sense.
- [34:06]
Christina Quinn
Well, not to mention, if it is in fact a Mossad blackmail ring operation, then yeah, Joe Biden is not gonna be part of exposing that because he is dyed in the wool Zionist. So I think there are, even if.
- [34:20]
Sagar Enjeti
And this is the point, even if it is what they always thought they had in the Steele dossier, even if it's like Trump doing something disgust and whatever, they're still, we've talked about this. They're still being asked to say if you're, you know, Biden and you are an establishment Democrat and you're thinking you protect Mossad and protect the state of Israel, or you expose Donald Trump doing something sexually horrifying, they're going to choose in one direction over the other. Even though that seems insane given all of the different political maneuvers they took. It's just a question of like their personal cost benefit analysis. And I actually feel like we know where they come down on that when we're talking about like potential nuclear war and world affairs and foreign policy.
- [35:06]
Christina Quinn
Joe Biden was willing to lose his reelection in order to continue backing Israel's genocide. There is apparently nothing that he's not willing to do for that country. And so I don't think it's hard to, you know, I don't think it's hard to imagine that if that in fact is the truth of what's going on here, that, yeah, he would not be the one to expose that. And it's also worth remembering too. I mean, Joe Biden was in Washington for a long ass time before he was president of the United States, including in the capacity or in the capacity as Vice president of the United States. So I don't, it's very plausible that he, you know, has known the truth of what is going on there for a long time and also wouldn't want it exposed that, you know, nobody has ever, like he didn't show up in the flight logs or anything, but perhaps he's implicated in terms terms of knowing for a while that this was the truth of what was going on now. This is all, you know, now I'm really getting out there in terms of speculation land. But I'm just trying to make the point that it's not hard to imagine a set of circumstances in which Joe Biden is also not interested in exposing the truth of what's going on here and where he would himself take on some political damage for doing so, or at the very least, undercut his favorite national ally.
- [36:21]
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- [38:49]
Sagar Enjeti
Joe Rogan reacted to this fiasco from the Trump administration in recent days where there's just been a seesaw, ping pong back and forth. What is actually going on, what they said was going on. And let's take a look at how Rogan reacted to the chaos in recent days. We can roll this A10.
- [39:10]
Ryan Grim
They've got videotape and all of a sudden they don't. You know, you have the director of the FBI on this show saying there's no. If there was nothing you're looking for is on those tapes. Like what? Why'd they say there was thousands of hours of tapes of people doing horrible? Why'd they say that? Right. Didn't Pam Bondi say that? What are you talking about Epstein, or did he? Yeah, Epstein, Yeah, she said it literally, I think a week before you had the FBI director sitting here telling you there was nothing. Right. She said something about that there was like thousands of hours of tapes of people doing horrible crimes.
- [39:42]
Christina Quinn
There is.
- [39:42]
Ryan Grim
And didn't the FBI dude say that there was nothing? Cash Patel said there's nothing. You're looking. I mean, what am I going to do? I'm going to push back, Right? No, of course. Obviously he's saying what he has to say. Right. Mystery surrounds the Jeffrey Epstein files after Bondi claims tens of thousands of videos. Tens of thousands. Jesus Christ. I tell you what, chill. Oh, my God. Was reviewing tens of thousands of videos. The wealthy financial financier with children or child porn. The comment made to reporters the White House days after a similar remark to a stranger with a hidden camera raised the stakes for President Donald Trump's administration to prove it has in its possession previously unseen compelling documents. Or just bomb Iran. And everybody forgets. Just bomb Iran. Yeah, everybody forgets about it.
- [40:33]
Sagar Enjeti
Crystal, what do you make of that?
- [40:34]
Christina Quinn
Well, that last piece, I'm fearful he may be correct about because, you know, I think it's entirely possible that Trump does do something wild like potentially bomb Iran or something equivalent in order to get people to change focus. Because that is his, that is his approach. But yeah, I mean, someone like Rogan, I think the, the BRO podcasters, they are not going to be on board for this level of gaslighting on something that they also, you know, were. Were focused on for a long time. Now, does that make a full turn on Trump? We know that Joe just had dinner with Trump and expressed some concerns about the direction with regard to the immigration policy. Concerns that were apparently immediately ignored. But, you know, I think people who are die hard MAGA Republicans are likely ultimately gonna buy the like, we just gotta trust Trump because he's Trump and that's who we voted for and this is our guy. But I think people who are more in the sort of like, independent and they voted for Trump for the first time or, you know, whatever, are less like die hard MAGA cultists. I think this really does speak to. This administration's not going the way I thought. This man is not the man I hoped he would be. This cuts so hard against his I'm the outsider posture, which, of course, you know, I've always thought his positioning himself as an outsider was sort of preposterous, but that is the way that he positioned himself and that is the way that he was able to gain so much traction. And this, for anyone who has their eyes open, just utterly destroys that positioning. We played with Sagar on Monday. I don't know if you saw that. This guy at the TPUSA conference who was talking to Steve Bannon and he was like, trump is the deep state now. He is the deep state. And Bannon was like, what? But there are gonna be some number of people who just feel completely jaded. And I think it probably gets channeled into a significant amount of nihilism if there isn't a competing political project that people really can believe in.
- [42:33]
Sagar Enjeti
You know, I have a couple of thoughts on that. One is there are. I mean, yes, like some hardcore MAGA people. We played the Scott Jennings clip earlier. I wouldn't consider him hardcore Maga. He's like, comes from McConnel.
- [42:45]
Christina Quinn
Yeah, he's a Mitch McConnell guy. He's. But he's just going to do what he needs to do. Yeah, yeah.
- [42:49]
Sagar Enjeti
Like Normie Republicans who embrace MAGA now, either just be like, we're moving on. It's about trusting Trump, like a Mike Johnson, Scott Jennings, those types of guys moving in that direction. On the other hand, I don't think we should discount that some of these podcasters, I'm not talking about Rogan. We have a Candace Owens clip that we're about to play. But I think some of these podcasters have put significant personal, like, personal reputational stakes on the line for years about Epstein. They know there's hours of them talking about Epstein on the Internet. And even just like from a cynical, calculated perspective, they are, like, aware that they have to keep on the same consistent point about Jeffrey Epstein. Otherwise, I mean, it's just, it's too glaring of. It's too glaring of a contrast. I think there is something to be said for that. I think even like Benny, Benny is an example who has been on the Epstein case like a dog with a bone for years. And let's just say from a cynical perspective, Benny was like, this is bad for the Trump administration. I really love Donald Trump. I've always trusted Donald Trump. He now there are like weeks, months, years of tapes of him talking about how serious the Epstein case was in very specific terms about why Democrats and why the FBI, why the feds don't want more information to come out. So it just also is like, I just don't think people on the outside should underestimate how powerful that is because it has been such a fixture of the podcast world. And that's also why, in substance, it matters to people, because it has been seen rightfully as the ultimate proxy issue of the insider versus outsider dynamic. And NBC News talked to a girl at the Turning Point summit who said it exactly like that, basically put it exactly in those terms. Just saying, I thought he was the outsider. Now it looks like he's protecting the insiders. Trump pitched himself as this outsider who was the most compelling outsider because he was also kind of an insider who knew where the bodies were buried and would know where to look and would be able to direct people to say transparency here, transparency there. And again, you and I can debate whether or not that was ever plausible or legitimate, but people who work in jobs that don't involve doing what we do and obsessing over the stuff because they have normal, wonderful lives are like, okay, this guy is right. He tells me that I shouldn't trust any of these other people. And that's correct. He is correctly saying, you can't trust the Clintons, you can't trust the Bidens, you can't trust the Bushes. And because he earned people's trust by saying correctly that they couldn't trust those people, some people just by default put their trust in Donald Trump. And this is something that actually undermines that very pitch from him about why you should trust him and not them.
- [46:07]
Christina Quinn
Well, and that's why I call it as another sort of humiliation ritual. It really is another test. How far will you go? Do you have any principles? Do you have any consistency? You know, here you've got hours of tape out there of you saying this is a big deal and this is a cover up and we have to get to the truth of what's going on. And there's, you know, this is an elite sex crimes ring where powerful people have been, you know, skating by, and we need accountability and we need justice. Can I get you to, over the course of a week, just turn on a dime and repudiate all that and say, I trust Trump? The other thing it makes me think of Emily and I wonder if you see any parallels here as well, is go way back to grab her by the pussy. Where Republicans at that time had been posturing for years. Really going back to the Clinton impeachment of, like, morals and character in a presidential candidate matters. You know, we are the ethical party of family values. And you've got Mike Pence on the ticket who is like the emblem of that sort of, you know, Evangelical Christian Coalition and the, you know, importance of family values. And they go to all these family values conferences every year and it's like, all right, here's your guy. What are you gonna do? And there was turmoil. You know, I mean, this is at a time when it looked like Trump was gonna get walloped by Hillary Clinton. That's what the polls suggested, was that he was gonna go down in flames. And so that was, okay, well, are you going to push aside your decades long supposed commitment to morals and ethics specifically around family values in a presidential candidate? Are you gonna suck it up and get on board and say, this is a locker room talk and there's nothing to see here? That's a great point. And we know ultimately where they all fell. Now, here's one thing I will say to your point about what is a little different now. First of all, the media landscape is completely transformed from that moment. It is not the same media landscape whatsoever.
- [48:09]
Ryan Grim
Right.
- [48:09]
Christina Quinn
Second of all, Trump may be a lame duck, we don't know. But I think many people probably assume that he only has a few more years in the presidency and then there's gonna be some post Trump Republican Party. I personally think that's actually foolish to think that that's the case, but I'm sure many people think that that's the case. Case number three, you have now a lane, sort of like the, you know, the Jimmy Dore lane on the left of like, I'm just gonna be critical of everyone all the time, in fact, like, sort of like a nihilistic lane that has opened up on the right as well. And Fuentes is a perfect example of that. And I think Candace is flirting with that lane as well. And so in terms of just sort of, where can I go and get an audience? They have demonstrated Fuentes in particular has demonstrated. And I think Tucker also is starting to demonstrate that as well. Although I question his actual independence from Trump. We'll put that aside for the moment. Fuentes has demonstrated like you can have an audience, you can make money and you can be influential and have clout without always toeing the line. And so that opens up a new sort of business possibility for the podcast, the right wing podcast or world that didn't necessarily exist before, where it really was just sort of like you have to support whatever Trump does and that's your best way to make money, have power, have influence, have clout, et cetera. So those things do create some different dynamics than we saw back in 2016. But that is what it reminds me of is that grabber by the pussy moment where Republicans were forced to completely do a 180 on their vociferously held purported longtime value.
- [49:48]
Sagar Enjeti
What's interesting about that too is it, I think goes a long way towards explaining Trump, who's a very media savvy man, landing on this new line of defense, which is the files were cooked up by the Biden administration, by Comey, by the Deep State, essentially, because the effort there is to muddy the waters. A lot of these podcast world people are very sympathetic to Trump in that sort of quest to take down people or let's just say in his war against like the so called Deep State. And some of this is for legitimate reasons, like there was a lot of funny business going on and we've covered a lot of it here. So they're already kind of primed to see that as true, to believe that as true because of the last decade. And that means if Donald Trump just sort of, he thinks he can plant that seed money, the waters and say, hey, maybe actually this is all coming from the Deep State. It's something that Alex Jones was talking about a little bit last week, saying that he saw and we're going to get to Alex Jones in just a moment. He saw a possibility, an evidence of the situation where Trump was in control of the Epstein dirt and using that to control the Deep State. He was sort of reverse blackmailing the Deep State with the Zepcine information and.
- [51:14]
Christina Quinn
Classic 8D chess move from Trump.
- [51:18]
Sagar Enjeti
Let's actually get to a 12 here. This is more reaction from Alex Jones who has really been going through it in the last week.
- [51:28]
Ryan Grim
I'm getting really concerned here at this point because the flip flopping and the 180 and then going back and going back is just the biggest train wreck I've ever seen. Seen and it's not in character for you to be acting like this. So we want your agenda to succeed. I've done deep research every saw you involved with Epsteinian criminal activity. So why are you acting like this? You made a deal with the establishment to leave you alone. Have they rolled over US intelligence we know is involved. Mossad, CIA, MI6, we already know that. But instead you just continue to say nothing to see here. Move along though. Go ahead and release information but there's no information released. Contradiction for contradiction. Flip flopping. Flip flopping. 180s on 180s on 180s. Jesus, I'm on a roller coaster here. And then, oh, it's only fake. News is concerned. Oh, like MTG and Tucker Carlson and myself and Joe Rogan, the American people. This is something that finally got our attention. People finally woke up to this. People finally understand, you know, a window in the deep state with all this. And so you signing off to this and flip flopping is just self harming. I mean, please President Trump, stop. If you want it to go away, just be quiet. It's like there's a gun to his head saying you better come out and say none of this exists or we'll release it. It's bad, it's getting worse by the minute. And I support you, but we built the movement you wrote in on. You're not the movement. You just surfed in on it. And I'm telling you, man, the Democrats we know are pure evil. My God, they promote pedophilia and everything openly. So why the hell are you acting like this? Please stop now.
- [53:02]
Sagar Enjeti
So Crystal, let's go ahead and roll Candace Owens as well and then break down what we're seeing for both of them. This is A11.
- [53:09]
Krystal Ball
Nothing to see here. Jeffrey Epstein. You see, we're not saying that you're guilty, but you are right now guilty of gaslighting the public. We're not saying that you are in the files. And again, I would like to trust. I certainly don't believe that that. But it is very clear that you are not calling the shots on the Jeffrey Epstein debacle and you're essentially being used to try to control the public reaction to those files not being released. What is happening now is it seems like you think your base is stupid. That's how I feel. I feel like Trump thinks his base is stupid or again because I don't think he's pressing send on these messages. The people around him certainly think that Trump is stupid and that shouldn't surprise you given the fact that all of these people were never Trump and they think, as they thought that Trump was too stupid to be president, that his base is too stupid to see through the lies that they are telling right now. And so what are they going to do? What is the last thing they're going to do now with the Epstein stuff while we're still reacting to it? Oh, Operation Just give them more war. Yeah, War as a distraction. Nevermind. We can't talk about Epstein because guys, guess what? Look at this headline. Trump announces is an aggressive or Trump is to announce an aggressive Ukraine Weapons plan. Yeah, he already indicated that in that same press conference that there's just going to be more weapons sent to Ukraine, they're going to attack Russia, we're just going to have to have a world war and another reset, I guess. So you guys just stop talking about Jeffrey Epstein and I am telling you that I will be the very last person that will stop talking about Jeffrey Epstein when it comes to children. I'm telling you guys, the left and the right, we have definitely got to come together on this and not let it go.
- [54:48]
Sagar Enjeti
So there you go. The very last person who'll stop talking about Jeffrey Epstein, one of Donald Trump's staunchest supporters.
- [54:56]
Christina Quinn
Yeah. And it's interesting. She and Rogan both come to the same like, oh, I guess they're just gonna, you know, start another war or escalate some of the wars we're already involved with to distract from this. And it's a clever point that Candace makes there to say there are like, that's already happening. And we covered of course the Ukraine escalation yesterday and Trump's plans to ship these long range weapons and the fact that apparently he asked Alinsky and it was leaked, he asked Zelensky like, hey, can you hit Moscow? Can you hit St. Petersburg? So I think that's a, that's a savvy point that Candace is ultimately making there. I can't help but notice though, Emily, she's still like, he's being controlled. Like it's never him who's the actor, it's who's controlling you. And same thing with Alex Jones. Like Alex seems genuinely tortured. You know, we played that video where he was crying and he said he was going to puke. Like I believe him, I believe that he probably vomited and is like genuinely tortured over what the fuck here. Because he is the conspiracy, is the OG conspiracy guy. Right. And so for Trump to completely flip on Epstein and say, you are a bad person if you still are talking about this, this. And to put out there this most outlandish explanation that it was Obama who wrote the Epstein files, which just doesn't even make any sense. Alex is trying to reckon with this in some way that doesn't lead to the conclusion, oh, Trump is implicated in these files. He always says the same thing of, like, I did deep research and I know there's nothing there in terms of you and, and kids. But you know, if it was any Democrat, actually, if it was anyone other than Trump, even another Republican, he would come to the obvious conclusion. You're trying to cover something up. That must look really bad for you because. And that's why he's so tortured and wrapping himself around this thing. Because how do you look at the fact pattern and not come to the conclusion as Ann Coulter was hinting at, like, oh, maybe there is some there there, because otherwise why are you behaving in this completely preposterous way? And Alex Jones is begging him not even to. This is also interesting to me. He's not even begging him at this point to release the files. He's just begging him to stop, stop talking about it, stop doing what you're doing. Like, just please stop. Which is kind of wild. You would think that, you know, he would be calling for the release of the files, but he's no, just please stop talking about this. You're just drawing more attention. You're just making things worse. Like, just stop everything that you're doing right now. And so it's, it's pretty wild to behold. But there's no doubt if it was certainly any Democrat, he, Candace, the whole cast of characters would immediately go, they're guilty. That's why they're behaving this way. That is the most logical explanation.
- [57:38]
Sagar Enjeti
I mean, people are getting closer. People on that side of it are getting closer and closer to thinking that. And your point about Sager saying, I never thought there was any there there with Trump and Epstein. I still think it's probably likely that Trump covering up for someone close to him rather than him himself. But the more that he talks, this is what Alex Jones is getting at, the more absurd and desperate he looks. And that is suspicious. Of course it's suspicious. I mean, everything around Trump and Epstein is already suspicious enough. But yeah, I mean, it's just, it's going to get the Donald Trump that they're painting a portrait of, whether it's Alex Jones or Candace Owens or Joe Rogan. Actually, it is so incredibly dark, this idea that you would have a president who says he's going to drain the swamp and purge corruption who is hiding covering up for political elites in the case of a sex predator in order to protect himself and then deflecting by sending more weapons into a conflict that he also said he would get elected to end. I mean, that is what they are. The portrait that they're painting for their listeners is an incredibly dark and powerful one.
- [59:03]
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- [59:36]
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- [61:32]
Sagar Enjeti
That's probably a good note on which to transition to the politics of all of this. We have numbers, so let's put a five on the screen. This is new polling data. Should the government release all documents related to the Epstein case? This is from YouGov. Yes, 79%. No, 5%. It's not even close.
- [61:53]
Christina Quinn
79%. All bad people, Emily. Bad people. The only noble ones are the 5% who say no. And most of them are apparently like in Congress, Republican members of Congress.
- [62:05]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah. And here's Harry Enton going through some polling numbers on cnn. Asics.
- [62:12]
Ryan Grim
Take a look here. Epstein K. Amount of info release. The winner here, 50% dissatisfied. Doesn't matter. 29% not heard enough. 17%. But look at the bottom of your screen. The percentage that are satisfied is just 3%. That's 1. That's 2. That is just 3%. I feel like the count on Sesame street, just 3% of Americans are satisfied. So far with the amount of information released, the clear winner in this particular case is 50%. Half of the public is dissatisfied, at least so far. You see this 50% dissatisfied. And let's break it down by party. Okay? Epstein County's amount of info released. Look at this. You get 43% of lean GOP, that's Republicans and independents who lean towards the Republican Party who are dissatisfied. Look at this. Just 4% satisfied. My goodness gracious, when you only have 4%, that is with Donald Trump on a particular issue that is ridiculously low. I've never seen anything quite like. How about lean Democrat, 60% dissatisfied. Compare that to 3% who are satisfied. Again, 4%. 3% Republican, Democrat. You rarely ever see this type of agreement. Whites with a college degree, whites without a college degree. But in this particular case we see agreement. What are we talking about this Epstein case. Amount of info release dissatisfied. 55% of white college graduates and 53 of white non college graduates. Donald Trump's historic best space yet. The majority are dissatisfied.
- [63:36]
Christina Quinn
Look at Donald Trump uniting the country, healing the grand education divide. Look at that. Emily.
- [63:43]
Sagar Enjeti
One of the. One of the numbers that Anton didn't mention specifically but was on the screen you could see was most interesting to me. 29% of people saying that it doesn't matter. Right. So if that number were higher, then Trump would be able to get away with this. Right? Like Trump could. There are all kinds of things that don't matter to voters they might disagree with the President on, but it doesn't really matter. You know, we're not talking right now, about Donald Trump's position on abortion at all. It's not like the high priority for many voters at this given moment. Or let's say Donald Trump disagrees on, like, the Jones Act. You can show all of these scary poll numbers about how voters are in total disagreement with Donald Trump on the Jones Act. Nobody cares about the Jones Act. So when you have.
- [64:27]
Christina Quinn
Are you an Aukus voter?
- [64:29]
Sagar Enjeti
Yes. Yes. You know, Sager probably cares a lot about the Jones act, but 29% of people saying, doesn't matter. Wow, that number is a bit low for the comfort of the Republican Party.
- [64:43]
Christina Quinn
I'm actually curious for some more polling about how closely people have been and are following the Epstein case, because in some ways, it does feel like kind of an Internet phenomenon. And certainly it has been podcasters who have most focused on it and delved into it and explored the various avenues. You know, mainstream media, basically, once he was dead, just sort of dropped it like a hot potato and there wasn't a lot of additional reporting, et cetera. Some may say that was the point. In any case, it has been largely a sort of podcast phenomenon, but because it touches on some of these core themes of just like, do you trust this guy? You know, did he. Is he a con man? Which, of course I think he is. I've always thought that he was, but, you know, he presented himself as this outsider. Is he really that, that? Or was this all just, you know, a giant con of the American people and most directly of his own supporters? So, because. And also, look, it's, you know, it's sort and tawdry, and those things also grab people's attention. So I have a feeling that there is a lot of significant normie public interest in this. And I, But I, you know, I don't have a strong feeling about. I'm curious to see more numbers as to just how closely people are following this, just what they make of it, just how important they think it is, and we'll see over time how it impacts his approval rating. You know, like I said before, I don't think that this causes MAGA to the MAGA base. Right. I think they'll still be there. I think, you know, Dinesh d' Souza and others who have this, like, oh, but let's focus on the great work he's doing, like, you know, imprisoning people in Alligator Alcatraz or whatever. I think that will probably be successful with most of his base because it's certainly not the first time he's been caught in a blatant hypocrisy it's not even the first time like this month that he's been caught in a blatant hypocrisy. But for independence, you know, I think he'll probably start rapidly receding towards his floor. Like the type of numbers that we saw, you know, after January 6th, for example, I don't know we'll get quite that low, but I think we'll start heading more in that direction. I know that I saw already poll numbers of his approval ratings declining significantly on this because it just does really cut against the identity that he's tried to forge for himself in politics.
- [67:06]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah. There's one final thought I have. Some smart analysts of the Biden presidency were looking at his favorability in his numbers. And after the botched Afghanistan withdrawal, which, by the way, in principle, most Americans agreed with getting out of Afghanistan, Biden's poll numbers never really recovered from that moment. That's sort of like when things in terms of the politics started to go downhill for Joe Biden. And you could potentially make the case that this is possibly a parallel moment for Donald Trump. It's one of those things where you just lose trust. And once you lose trust and you look, I mean, we were talking about the humiliation rituals that Donald Trump likes to put his deputies through, but it's humiliating for Donald Trump toand he doesn't see it this way, of course, but to talk such a tough game about the deep state and transparency in draining the swamp, and then to be a guy who comes out there and can't get tough on the Epstein case, the case that most people want, the case that's most important to people who want toughness from a outsider president or an outsider president who pledged to take on. So that I actually think that is sort of a humiliating moment for Trump. And I do wonder if it causes trust with 5% even of people who generally give him the benefit of the doubt. It's one of those things where it's a proxy issue. It just, I sensed, actually the Republican Study Committee did a new media row yesterday, and I was talking so I was talking to a bunch of members, and I got the sense from them that they know their districts care about this and they know people are going to ask them about this. They know they're going to have to answer questions about it. And so Trump is not really going.
- [68:57]
Ryan Grim
To be able to hand wave it.
- [68:58]
Sagar Enjeti
Away, not just because of how Alex Jones and Candace Owens are reacting, but also because it's going to stick in the minds of regular people.
- [69:06]
Christina Quinn
Yeah. And Trump is a political Teflon and is able to write out a bunch of crises and already has written out a bunch of crises. But there's been massive blowback against the Republican Party in midterm elections in particular, as a consequence of things that he has done that has sunk the party's chances. So when you think about the midterm elections, which is still a ways down the road, we're gonna have 85 more, like scandals and outrageous things happen, wars and whatever the hell we're gonna see over the next year and a half. But between now and then. But this is the sort of thing that contributes to apathy amongst your base where they may, you know, they may still say, yes, I approve of what he's doing and I'm glad he's in there and I trust my guy. Am I going to go out and vote for this Republican member of Congress who voted against the release of the Epstein files? Maybe not. Maybe I'll just. Maybe I've got other things going on that day. It only takes a couple points of depressed turnout on the Republican side to really remake the landscape in terms of, you know, what those midterm elections ultimately look like.
- [70:06]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah. And, you know, nobody really agrees that Jeffrey Epstein, like, that there's no there there. I mean, everyone pretty much is like, yeah, this is, this is suspicious. So it's not like there are people in Trump's camp who are like, you know, I bet it's all on the up and up. And, you know, like, that just doesn't even. That doesn't make sense. And now Trump has introduced this other scandal like, that he was framed by the Biden administration, James Comey, to be implicated in Epstein, which is, this is significant allegations. So that's why Alex Jones is like, dude, stop. Because now there's this basically fabricated, out of thin air new theory that Trump is using to kind of muddy the waters. And maybe there's something to. I mean, maybe they did. If you were a partisan operation and you knew that there was stuff on the other guy to prevent it from being released, if Democrats are implicated, you might point the fingers at him and leave the files in such a way that points. Right. Like there could be truth to it, but the idea that they are the only ones who cooked up the Epstein theory is obviously not true. So.
- [71:06]
Christina Quinn
Well, and also, it's not what the administration was saying five seconds ago when they were like, there are no files and there is no client list and the case is closed and we need to move on.
- [71:15]
Ryan Grim
Yeah.
- [71:16]
Christina Quinn
If you uncovered this giant conspiracy where Democrats wrote you into the Epstein files and deleted themselves or whatever the fuck he's arguing. Even then, why don't you reveal that instead of saying there's nothing to see here and everyone should move on and you're a bad person if you don't. So there's that glaring problem with that theory as well. And the last thing I'll say about this, Emily, is the people who are backing him up the hardest are like the Ben Shapiro's are the pro Israel neocon types. And that concerns me because not only because of potential implications there, but it concerns me because of who may gain influence through this. And we all know the people who come through as like the loyal, most loyal servants of Donald Trump are more likely to get access and favor and have their viewpoints listened to. And so the fact that it's the, you know, the pro Israeli, pro war faction that may be gaining more power and credibility and access through all of this is also really concerning to me.
- [72:26]
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