← Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
7/24/25: Trump Exposed In Epstein Files, Judge Denies Release Of Epstein Docs, Nelk Boys Scripted Bibi Interview
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- [00:00]
Krystal Ball
This is an iHeart podcast.
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Sagar Enjeti
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- [02:09]
Krystal Ball
Hey guys, Sagar and Krystal here.
- [02:11]
Sagar Enjeti
Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.
- [02:18]
Krystal Ball
This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.
- [02:24]
Sagar Enjeti
So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad, free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.
- [02:35]
Krystal Ball
We need Your help to build the future of independent news media. And we hope to see you@breakingpoints.com Good morning everybody. Happy Thursday. Have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal?
- [02:47]
Sagar Enjeti
Indeed we do many things to talk about this morning, including a new Wall Street Journal bombshell. Trump is officially in the Epstein files and was informed of such. So we will break all of that down. Also have a little bit of polling to dig through on all of those matters as well. Some interesting new Nelk boys fallout too. We are learning courtesy of them that they were actually given a list of interview questions before their big Netanyahu interview. They're sort of still spiraling there. So interesting to dig into that as a media story. I think a significant one actually. Some very dire news coming out of Israel. We now have a whistleblower coming forward from that so called Gaza Humanitarian foundation talking about the unbelievable and horrifying force being used against Palestinians in the context of them trying to obtain aid. We also have another significant media story here involving Candace Owens who is now being sued by the first family of France. Candace did a long piece alleging that Brigitte Macron, the first lady of France is actually a man, was born a man, etc. And so they are suing her over those and other claims. We also have significant economic news. Home prices are continuing to go up, home sales continuing to go down. In fact, a significant number of deals that were originally struck in the housing market fell apart last month. Record high number of those deals falling apart. So still really dire there. This comes also as Trump has announced a new quote unquote trade deal with Japan. So we'll dig into all of that and we're going to have a guest on to break down if there is any there there with this big Russiagate document drop obviously being used as an attempt to distract from Epstein. It's not working very well. But we did want to sift through and see if there's anything we should know.
- [04:31]
Krystal Ball
Obama Gate. As an original Obama gator myself, yeah, it's been difficult. You know, we're having to go back and reread all the files, et cetera. But yes, we will allow Isaac. Isaac has done a fantastic job here from Tangle. He's actually read through everything, covered the stuff for years. And so we're going to outsource some of our knowledge over there. Thank you Isaac, for Thanks.
- [04:53]
Sagar Enjeti
Didn't have it in us to go.
- [04:54]
Krystal Ball
I just personally dive into this in me right now. All right, let's go. Oh, before we get to that, thank you to Everybody who has been signing up for Our Premium membership, breakingpoints.com if you would like. Obviously, we have all the benefits, but we are really supporting the show. And we have so many thousands and thousands of people every day who are joining us from all of these different issues in our coverage. And we're really happy to have you. If you can't sign up for a premium membership, no worries. Just do us a favor, hit the subscribe button on YouTube or if you guys are listening to this on a podcast, just go ahead and send a link to one of your friends. It's the best possible thing that you could do for us to help spread the word. So with that, let's go ahead and start here with the Epstein story. This is again a very remarkable, very interesting leak coming to the Wall Street Journal. Let's put it up there on the screen. Quote, the Justice Department told Donald Trump in that his name is among many in the Epstein files. There's a lot here and I'm gonna go through both the exact details of the story, but also the timeline. Cause the timeline matters a lot. Quote, when the Justice Department reviewed the Attorney General, Pam Bondi called a truckload of documents. They discovered that Donald Trump's name appeared multiple times in May. Her and her deputy informed the president at a meeting in White House that the name, his name was in the Epstein files. Quote, many other high profile figures were also named. Trump was told being mentioned in the records is not a sign of wrongdo. That's obviously correct. And that's something that we've talked about here for quite a long time. They said. The official said it was part of a routine briefing, covered a number of topics. And then Trump's appearance in the document was not even the focus. They told the president at that meeting that the files contained what officials felt was, quote, unverified hearsay about many people, including Trump, who had socialized with Epstein in the past. Some of the officials said. One of the officials familiar said that they contain hundreds of other names. They also said that Trump told. They also told Trump the senior Justice Department officials didn't plan to release any more documents related to the investigation of the convicted sex offender because the material contained child pornography and victim's personal information. Trump said at the meeting he would defer to the Justice Department. Now, I wanna sit on that for a second. So first and foremost is this, number one, is that obviously they told Trump his name was in the Epstein files. But the thing is, is that within the context, it makes it even more bizarre about Trump's decision not to release it. And really why this is a PR crisis of his own making. Now, at this point, if he had released it with his name and hundreds of other names, there would be quite literally hundreds of stories to be able to go into this. Right? And we could all diagnose and we could take a look at all of these different connections by doing the COVID up and also claiming that you were going to release everything, you now make it so that the singular focus is on you, the president, for the person here and actually make it more likely, in my mind and many people's minds who are analysts here, like, I don't know, man, maybe there is something a hell of a lot more which is causing all these journalists, you know, the epic Epstein birthday book, all of these old clips. We're gonna play some here in a little bit just to show people, like some of the past scrutiny on Epstein and Trump's own relationship. This is all because of your own actions. Second is Crystal. Remember this meeting was in May. We did not get the Epstein memo until almost a month later, ahead of the visit of the Israeli Prime Minister. So it seems they made the decision some one month earlier, basically around the time Kash Patel and others were going around on podcast, kind of laying the groundwork for this. But what happened in that one month period? They said they weren't gonna release anything and then a month later they come out and kind of say it. So the timing of it is very suspect. Remember also in that interim month, they still were claiming that they were doing an investigation. So it basically makes the government look like a whole bunch of liars. It obviously makes Trump himself look dramatically more implicated in a coverup. Probably makes him now at this point more intransigent to not release the files, which makes him look even more guil. And so it's just a spiraling thing where again, the simplest answer is one which would probably be to his own benefit and to everybody else, just release everything that what's in there. That's all you gotta do, man. That's what you said you were gonna do.
- [08:51]
Sagar Enjeti
It depends what's in there, but that's my point.
- [08:54]
Krystal Ball
Now they're making it sketchy, but you're.
- [08:56]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, but maybe like you're assuming that what's in there is just, oh, he was at his wedding and they, he sent him a birthday card or whatever. We don't know that the way Trump is acting would indicate that there may be some much worse things. That is Occam's razor at this point, just based on the way that he's acting. But I mean, this story is. It is probably the least surprising story that we've seen thus far.
- [09:19]
Krystal Ball
Totally.
- [09:20]
Sagar Enjeti
Because. And by the way, Elon apparently totally vindicated at this point. When Elon first said that Trump is in the Epstein files, what do we say? We said, of course Trump is in the Epstein files. Yes, they were very close friends for a lot of years. There is zero doubt that Trump is in the Epstein files. Question mark of what that means and what the implications are and what, you know, all of that. But there was never any doubt. We know he flew on Epstein's plane at least seven times. So it should be no surprise to anyone that he is, quote, unquote, in the Epstein files, whatever that really means. The question is, what are the specifics here and why are you acting so incredibly bizarrely? That's really what it comes down to. And you're right that this has opened up a can of worms of people going back, because there was a lot of memory holing, there was a lot of denial on the right about just how close they were and how long the association lasted and all of those sorts of things. And so now let's go ahead and play. This was Jeffrey Epstein, when he was being deposed, got asked specifically about his relationship with Donald Trump and about whether or not they had ever been together in the presence of underage girls. Let's go ahead and take a listen to how he spun that.
- [10:32]
Krystal Ball
Have you ever had a personal relationship with Donald Trump?
- [10:38]
Sagar Enjeti
What do you mean by personal relationships?
- [10:40]
Krystal Ball
Have you socialized with him? Yes, sir. Yes.
- [10:44]
Sagar Enjeti
Yes, sir.
- [10:45]
Krystal Ball
Have you ever socialized with Donald Trump in the presence of females under the age of 18, though I'd like to.
- [10:59]
Sagar Enjeti
Answer that question at least today I'm going to have to assert my 5th, 6th and 14th amendment rights. It there to the Midas Touch network. They sleuthing all kinds of stuff up over there.
- [11:11]
Krystal Ball
Well, listen, as you said, it's been out there. I don't deny it either. I mean, my assumption, perhaps naively, was, yeah, look, he's one of the most scrutinized public figures in the world at this point. Yeah, they went to each other's weddings, et cetera. I'm not saying I believe Trump in his face, but I was like, I think we kind of know. Yeah, they were obviously friends. They had all these sketchy personal connections in certain ways. But at this point, considering both his rhetoric and the rhetoric of his administration, I was like, yeah, they'll probably release it. I mean, again, I could be totally Wrong. And perhaps they are. But at this point, his behavior is such that it is really vindicating a lot of what you're saying. And that's why I actually think at this point, you really do have no choice but to release it, in my opinion. And also just because of the way that the political winds continue to shift both in Washington. Remember, they literally had to shut down the House of Representatives to stop a vote. And even with that, I mean, I gotta give some of the Republicans some credit here because, you know, yet just yesterday it was the House Oversight Committee, multiple Republicans broke with the administration. They voted 8 to 2 to subpoena Ghislaine Maxwell, who will have some testimony before them. There are actually people who are there who are like, no, I'm not. We're not stopping. This is going to happen. The reason they had to shut down the House was because there were enough Republicans who were willing to join the Democrats to say, no, screw it, we're going forward.
- [12:22]
Sagar Enjeti
Well, let's pause on Ghislaine for a second because I know Ryan and Emily covered this, but the administration is talking to her. I mean, it's very, very, very possible. She's obviously working to try to get a deal, try to get a pardon. Yes. And I think that's very possibly the direction going where she effectively, in exchange for quote, unquote, exonerating Trump, is let out of her, has her prison sentence commuted or get some sort of a deal. So, you know, that's possible as well. And she has an appeal up to the Supreme Court right now that, right now the government is taking the position of, no, you know, she needs to stay in prison. And that previous sweetheart deal that was struck with Epstein that said none of your co conspirators could be charged either. That doesn't apply here for this various, various technical reasons. So I think that is possible as well. I mean, that's the thing. It's like regardless of whatever's in the files, the way they played this is so incredibly stupid. It's like the worst possible way you could do because these people are obviously not above line. We're about to show you Trump coming out and being like, oh, of course she didn't tell me that I was in the Epstein files. So they could have released some subset. This ploy that they're doing now with the, oh, let's release the grand jury testimony, which the courts are already saying, no, we're not gonna do that because there's no, we're basically not allow to. They could have done that. Ploy previously to make it look like they're trying for transparency, but gosh darn it, the court system is just standing their way or something, or just run out the clock as you and I fully expected them to do. And instead you have made it look like you are so guilty and maybe you are, and drawn so much attention and scrutiny that now everybody is going back through every picture, every video, every deposition, everything that has ever connected you to Jeffrey Epstein and to that world. And looking at it through a totally different lens at this point.
- [14:09]
Krystal Ball
Right. And that's actually another thing which I think is important to align with the Ghislaine stuff. So Ghislaine is actually meeting with the Justice Department today. But the problem is at this point you've poisoned the well. Right. For any substantive. I mean, at the end of this is part of what does to me again point to a cover up. Ghislaine Maxwell's attorneys and the government say, we never asked her if she ever had any third party.
- [14:31]
Sagar Enjeti
What?
- [14:32]
Krystal Ball
You never asked her in 2012, you never asked her and now you're asking her at a time when she's directly asking for a pardon from Donald Trump. What? She's stupid. She can't look at the news and say, hey, I need to know what I said. If they had released the files and then come to Ghislaine Also, by the way, at this point, I mean, Ghislaine Maxwell, just on the merits of what she's been convicted of, it's heinous. She should never be allowed a pardon or any of this. I'm talking about just her crimes with relation to Jeffrey Epstein. And so let's just leave it at that and say, all right, Ghislaine, maybe we can talk sentence reduction and all of this, but you have to be able to give us prosecutable, verifiable evidence. I think it's called like a Rule 35 or something like that where a judge can take into consideration your cooperation with the government, but it has to lead to actually something. Whereas now they've poisoned the well through their cover up actions. And now if she does come out and say Trump, who's never an intelligence asset or none of this women are like, yeah, come on, man. I mean, this is just as sketchy as the non prosecution agreement.
- [15:29]
Sagar Enjeti
Right? You really couldn't believe it, anything she says at this point, because who are you leaving? I mean, you know, she is not going to implicate Trump regardless of however much they're there. There is because she wants to deal with Him, Right.
- [15:41]
Krystal Ball
Ghislaine has had a year. She even gave interviews from her jail cell.
- [15:44]
Sagar Enjeti
Right?
- [15:44]
Krystal Ball
Like, it's not like she couldn't say something if she didn't want to.
- [15:47]
Sagar Enjeti
Right.
- [15:47]
Krystal Ball
She's keeping it all in. And look, she was at the Clinton wedding. She knew Donald Trump. She met Elon, her father, literally a Mosad asset. You know, I mean, I could go on forever in terms of this woman's background. It's nuts, all right? I mean, Laureen Powell jobs, like, she's got all kinds of stuff on all kinds of people, regardless of, by the way, whether they're implicated in sex trafficking or not. Just her mere association, as we saw, with Elon, Laureen Powell jobs. It's a problem. No, it's a problem. And here we have with Donald Trump, again, like, his just instinct to just, basically just come out and lie about a lot of the information here. He was asked repeatedly, did Pam Bondi ever tell you your name was in the Epstein files? And he said, no. Let's take a listen on a DOJ and Epstein. On what, on what subject? Epstein?
- [16:31]
Sagar Enjeti
On Epstein, of the review of the files. Attorney General Pam Bondi, a very, very quick briefing. Did she tell you what did she tell you about the review? And specifically, did she tell you at all that your name appeared in the file?
- [16:42]
Krystal Ball
No, no, she's.
- [16:44]
Sagar Enjeti
She's given us just a very quick briefing. And in terms of the credibility of the different things that they've seen, and I would say that, you know, these.
- [16:54]
Krystal Ball
Files were made up by Comey, they were made up by Obama, they were made up by the Biden, you know.
- [17:01]
Sagar Enjeti
And we went through years of that with the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax.
- [17:06]
Krystal Ball
So, yeah, he literally said, no, she did not tell me that I was in the Epstein files. Another person who a lot of people have been looking to here is Mark Epstein, the brother, and he directly talked about some of the contradictions from the President's claims, saying he'd never been in his office. And he said, no, that's just absolutely not true. Let's take a listen to that. And the White House, their response to us, Mark, they were categorical. They said, quote, the President was never in Epstein's office. Is that true?
- [17:35]
Sagar Enjeti
That's just the blatant.
- [17:36]
Krystal Ball
That's just another blatant lie because he was there.
- [17:39]
Sagar Enjeti
The people that worked for Jeffrey in his office, you can find him. They can testify that they saw Trump.
- [17:45]
Krystal Ball
In Jeffrey's office on numerous occasions.
- [17:48]
Sagar Enjeti
You know, so for him to say he wasn't there, all I could say is that's just another lie.
- [17:52]
Krystal Ball
So you can say, he said, that's just another lie. I mean, look, Mark Epstein, I understand he's got his own personal agenda, and everybody should keep that in mind. But a lot of the stuff that Mark has said has actually turned out to be true. Remember, it's Mark also who has really driven the train of. My brother did not commit suicide, by the way. If anybody wants, they should go and watch the interview that Ryan and Emily did yesterday with a former inmate at the mcc. I mean, this guy, the case that he lays out about the cameras and the way that everything that works there, it's just, again, it's just not credible. I mean, I knew that and I'd heard from other people. But to hear from such an intelligent and articulate person who was also literally an inmate in this facility, who had deep association knowledge of a lot of these cameras and himself is a technology expert, you know, you could take it with whatever grain of salt, I guess, that you want. I don't think he has a particular agenda that he's pushing. He's just like, listen, I was there. This is how it all worked. And I'm telling you, the government story doesn't make any sense whatsoever at all that fits with the original OIG investigation. Now, all this fake footage that's been put out by Pam Bondi, so in the very least with Mark Epstein, a lot of what he has said has turned out, at the very least, to be correct. Now, don't forget, he's also trying to whitewash some of his brother's crimes and his record. So let's put that out there. But broadly, I mean, what the Trump administration, and again, in all their actions, and this will get to the kind of the Russiagate, Obamagate stuff, and even the MLK files is, it's pretty clear they're desperate to release or to try and distract, at the very least, a lot of their base from what's happening. And yet the Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, she delivered this long presentation yesterday about Obamagate and referring Obama to criminal prosecution, et cetera. As we said, we'll get to that at the latter end of the show because we have a guest on who's gonna break it all down for us, but she's asked here directly about Jeffrey Epstein and the intelligence connections. Let's take a listen. I haven't seen any evidence or information that reflects that. If anything comes before me, that that changes that in any way. Support the president's statement loud and clear. If any credible evidence comes forward, he wants the American people to see it. I haven't. They always, I haven't seen it. If anything comes forward, I'll let you know. Or we'll look into it. Or it's like come on again. I mean, it's just so preposterous. And it just shows us that either they don't want to know or they do know and they're lying to us. I'm not really sure which one is worse. I guess theoretically plausible Deniability A tale as old as time right here in Washington. But you know, you put all this.
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Stop hitting snooze on new Tech Win the tech search@lenovo.com Lenovo Lenovo unlock AI experiences with the ThinkPad X1 carbon powered by Intel Core Ultra processors so you can work, create and boost productivity all on one device. Also with the Wall Street, I should know, by the way, multiple other outlets reported it. And the White House is not even really denying the conversation took place. Let's make that clear as well. They're like, ye, we know. And their defense is they knew each other at a certain time, they had a falling out. And that's to the extent, okay, fine. I mean, even according to the Journal, they're like, hey, man, it's not like you're implicated in any wrongdoing here. Your name is in here along with hundreds of other people. It's like, okay, fine, then release it. But clearly Trump is either afraid as that even those breadcrumbs as to what it will all lead to. That's very possible. The intelligence angle, by the way, I still think is a very, very plausible one beyond his own personal motivations. And if you just. The totality of the way that all of the original statements from the Trump administration now align with where we are today, it just tells you nothing but cover up. I mean, Pam Bondi. Thousands of hours of footage, all these files, hundreds of FBI agents, et cetera. Remember, there was a statement from Dick Durbin, the senator from Illinois, I think he's on the Judiciary Committee in the Senate, and he put out a statement saying, hey, we were told by FBI agents to flag when Donald Trump's name was in the file. But now it kind of makes sense, right? Because this is part of probably why they were coming to Trump. Just like, hey, just so you know, your name is in here. But that is all just. It's such a massive conflict of interest. And for people, you know, the Streisand effect of this story now is unbelievable. It's one of the top stories in the country. I'm not joking. If you look at Google traffic, and especially if you look at people who are, quote, apolitical or, you know, kind of online, a lot of them probably voted for Trump. They may not necessarily consider themselves maga. They're really starting to break for, you know, if you want evidence, the QAnon Shaman has now broken with Donald Trump and said this piece of shit, just saying, all right, listen, you could say whether or not, you know, I mean, he stormed the Capitol, you know, on behalf of Donald Trump. I think it's a constituency of some sort for these types of people. He was a hero you know, if you'll recall. So I'm just saying all these types of people, this is a very important story. He's not going away well.
- [24:36]
Sagar Enjeti
And I think, I think it's really the first time I can think of where all of Trump's go to tactics are just really not working. He's normally so good at being able to change the conversation and get us chasing after something else than having to deal with some. And obviously he's trying. I mean, I've seen the list of all the attempted distractions, the cane sugar and the coke and the Rosie o' Donnell should be denaturalized and lose their citizenship. And the now we've got the Obamagate stuff, the MLK files and whatever. And it's like, nope, people are still focused on this. And it's so obvious too what he's trying to do, that not to say that the right isn't interested in the Russiagate stuff and whatever, we're gonna cover it in the show, but it is not throwing people off of this particular case, especially as the story just continues to drip, drip, drip, drip, drip continues to develop. And then the other thing is, and you and I were talking about this a little bit before we started the show, like, I don't think Rupert Murdoch is the type of media figure who's just gonna be terrified and run away from the case because of the threat of a lawsuit. Trump has already, okay, he's already played that card. He said he threatened them before they published their birthday card scoop. He threatened them, said, this is absolutely fake, I will sue you, I will ruin you, et cetera. They went forward with it anyway. And so he's already played that card with them. And then that's the other thing that's significant about this coming out in the Wall Street Journal after that initial scoop, is it's sort of a message to him too, of like, okay, well, we're gonna keep going.
- [26:10]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, let's play.
- [26:11]
Sagar Enjeti
You're not slowing us down. Yeah, let's play. Let's go. I'm not afraid. We're moving in this direction. And Murdoch obviously has a sprawling media empire, including Fox News, including Wall Street Journal, including the New York Post, all of which are incredibly important and influential. And I think he also is someone who does not see Trump as being bigger than him.
- [26:28]
Krystal Ball
Murdoc always hated Trump in a secret way, like they despise him. It is a alliance of convenience. At the very best, Trump both fears and respects Rupert Murdoch and vice versa. Right. But the thing is, people need to understand about Murdoch is, and I was reading from Dylan Byers, he works at pog, he's one of the best, like true inside the room media journalists. And he pointed this out, if you look at the previous settlements, ABC settles with Donald Trump. Why? They were gonna win. There's no question that they were gonna win the George Stephanopoulos case. Why do they settle? Because ABC is owned by Disney. Bob Iger is like, look, 16 million and I get to keep my theme park permits, which print hundreds of millions of dollars a year. Easy trade, right? Cause they don't care about journalism, they care about business. CBS, owned by Paramount, which needs to merge with Skydance, which needs the FTC and the FCC to approve their merger. 16 million is nothing for a multi billion dollar deal. Sherry Redstone has been trying to offload this shit for years. She's like, I will pay anything to get rid of this. Oh, and by the way, she's super pro Israel. So at the same time she's like, I don't care, whatever, let's make a deal. Murdoch, people forget this. He sold the bulk of the Fox empire, the Fox networks and all the other stuff years ago, and he sold it to Disney. He doesn't need the regulators nearly as much. He still owns Fox, still owns News Corp. That's basically it. A lot of his personal empire has been offloaded. He's sitting on a shitload of cash as well as his foreign media empire. He doesn't need the same regulatory approval. Now listen, the FCC can make life miserable for anybody. So I'm not saying it's theoretically possible, but also what Dylan said, if you note inside the lawsuit that Trump filed, it specifically doesn't go after Fox News. It actually doesn't touch Fox News very carefully. It was crafted to make sure it only goes after Murdoch, the two journalists and others. Another thing is, is that Trump may actually have filed the lawsuit in such a way that it will require immediately dismissal. Because Florida law basically requires that you have to wait like five days or something after a story to be published, actually publish to file suit. They did it obviously before the five days was up. They may have actually crafted the lawsuit in a way where it will require dismissal and then both sides can claim victory. So it may be possible that they knew it was a fake lawsuit from the very beginning. Result, all posturing. And also what. I mean, let's think about the implication here. Trump would literally have to sit as President of the United States for a deposition for hours about Jeffrey, about his.
- [29:04]
Sagar Enjeti
Relationship with Jeffrey Epstein.
- [29:06]
Krystal Ball
Deposition. You really wanna go through with that.
- [29:09]
Sagar Enjeti
And then Murdoch, 0% chance he wouldn't say that.
- [29:12]
Krystal Ball
It's not happening. Yeah, exactly. Like the risk for Trump is exponential. The risk for Murdoch is not that high. He's sitting on 40 or 50 billion dollars and he's 94 years old. And by the way, he loves to fight. As you can look at all of his past, I really recommend people go and look at some of the past legal broiling this guy has gotten himself into here in the UK and in Australia. This is what animates them. And so I put that all together. I'm not saying Murdoch may not settle. He may do it just to basically bribe Trump. Maybe Trump will say no more Trump administration officials on Fox News, but I don't think so. They need each other. It's a symbiotic relationship. So anyway, I'm betting on Rupert on this one. I really am.
- [29:55]
Sagar Enjeti
Well, like I said, I think the fact that they published this scoop so soon after the original one really does send a message of like, we don't care. Go ahead. We don't buy that you and your fake threats that this is any sort of a real risk for us and we're proceeding. There are a couple other details that are worth pulling out in this Wall Street Journal piece that were interesting as well. First of all, they had some details about Dan Bongino and Pam Bondi fighting. So let me read this section. They say that Bongino has told colleagues his association with the administration's decision to keep the files private has eroded his credibility among the base of support that fueled his rise as a successful podcaster and media personality on the right. So he's concerned that this is all damaging his brand as a podcaster, which is important thing for high level FBI official to be worried about. Botano did not respond to a request for commentary. They also have these details of this fight. So on July 9, they say after ABC News reached out to the White House about Bondi's briefing to the President, Bongino and Bondi clashed in a meeting in which Bondi alleged Bongino was secretly providing information to the media to damage her reputation. Bongino in turn exploded about Bondi, his face red, and called her a liar. A senior administration official said they also have some details in here about FBI Director Kash Patel, who apparently is privately going around and spreading the information, gossiping about the fact that Trump's name is in the file. So this is becoming common knowledge in D.C. and so no surprise that Elon.
- [31:27]
Krystal Ball
I think Elon Musk is certainly the source of where Elon came from. And it makes sense because FBI director was the one who gave the order to the agents to all. Remember, they said hundreds of agents and said, hey guys, flag anything there that's in Donald Trump. So yeah, I mean, look, nobody can deny this. The actions of the administration are so unbelievably sketchy now at this point that, you know, I don't even know how they dig themselves out of it again other than a full release. But even at that point, there's just gonna be so much scrutiny, so much requirement for transparency to say, what the hell are you guys hiding? You have nobody to blame but yourselves.
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Krystal Ball
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Krystal Ball
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Stop Hitting snooze on new tech. Win the tech search@lenovo.com Lenovo Lenovo unlock AI experiences with the ThinkPad X1 carbon powered by Intel Core Ultra processors so you can work, create and boost productivity all on one device. Let's go to the second part here because this is equally important. Kind of gets to the whole cover up situation. Can't say you weren't warned here on this show. Let's put it up there on the screen. The judge, lo and behold, has denied Donald Trump's request to release the Epstein transcripts in Florida. This is the grand jury transcripts that are relating to the Epstein case. You'll remember previously that they had said, quote, that the court said its hands were tied because she could not release the files from the grand jury convene because transcripts are, quote, typically kept secret except in very narrow circumstances. And that the department was not requesting the transcript for use in a judicial proceeding, which actually would have opened the pathway to disclose the jury records. So, I mean, this is where a lot of the ways that these, you know, a lot of the way in which they even, like, said that they were gonna request the transcripts, it was obvious basically from the beginning that it was almost certainly likely to fail. Just moving through the court system, it just gets to this whole fakery about what the Epstein files are like. It's in the irs, in the treasury data, and inside of the FBI, which you have executive purview. You don't need no judge to release any of that. You can release all of it yourself if you want to look at the MLK files. Right? You can release all of this data, 302s, et cetera, for the public interest. There's direct, you know, executive. There's executive purview for all of this. You have that ability today. You don't be putting this on some judge. And especially here, the grand jury documents. Part of the reason why I said even that would be dramatically insufficient is that those grand jury documents and transcripts are specifically about the narrowly tailored charges against Epstein, which only involve him and the sex trafficking allegations against him. It doesn't get to any of the broader implications. Senator Ron Wyden, who, by the way, I gotta give credit to, the guy's been working on this story for multiple years now at this point. So, you know, long before it was convenient, he literally said, I personally looked at treasury documents which show $1.5 billion in suspicious activity reports that were filed after Epstein's death, $1.5 billion in wire transfers from the Richest and most powerful people in the world also connect to sex trafficking rings all across the world, including Eastern Europe. That fits with the New York Financial Services document. The government has it in its ability to release those documents today if they want to. Where is it? You know, this is what I'm getting at in terms of they're trying to fool the public with stunts like this. And it genuinely is very important for people who are interested in this to be able to parse and say, like, Trump tried. No, he didn't. Okay, this was guaranteed to fail basically from day one. And it's a stunt. There's no other way to put it. It's a stunt.
- [37:07]
Sagar Enjeti
And you know what? If they had pulled this stunt first, yeah, then fine. Then not fine. But I think people would have bought it more.
- [37:14]
Krystal Ball
I think you're right.
- [37:15]
Sagar Enjeti
Would have been like, oh, we're trying, and the courts are standing in our way, and these liberal Marxist judges, blah, blah, blah. And by the way, there's still a question of whether the grand jury transcripts from Manhattan will be released. But that judge has also already said, basically, like, my hands are tied unless they provide additional submissions and rationale for why we would do that. So. So listen, this is very, very, very unlikely to happen. And even if it did happen, what it would provide would not be the quote, unquote, Epstein files. But, you know, the Ron Wyden thing is actually really important. And this is the thing that Julie K. Brown, who has been focused on this case down in Miami for years and years at this point, this is what she always says. I heard her interview with Ross Douthat over at the New York Times. She said, I've always insisted that the government has tried too hard to rely on the victims to build the case. Instead of following the money. She's like, if you really want to know what was truly going on here, follow the money. And that's why the Ron Wyden piece is so important.
- [38:11]
Krystal Ball
I've said it here, too. And that's why it's so preposterous. The money is the center of the Epstein story because that's where the arms trafficking stuff comes in. His connections with Maxwell, all of his. His fake wealth, the Leslie Wexner stuff. And it's because of the money. And it's because of what I believe. What I believe is his work with these intelligence assets is what leads to the sweetheart deal of a non prosecution. It's not that the government was running the, quote, blackmail ring or whatever. It's not the government was running his sex trafficking operation. It's that when he got in trouble for that, they're like, all right, guys, we're gonna help this go away. There are documented instances of this going back for decades. Multiple times, CIA officers and others have been let off for sex crimes because they don't want to release sources and methods. The actual financial documents and others, I believe, would show a vast array of sketchy financial transactions which have basically no other explanation other than intelligence work.
- [39:11]
Sagar Enjeti
Where did all the money come from?
- [39:13]
Krystal Ball
Well, yeah, exactly.
- [39:14]
Sagar Enjeti
And who did it go on to?
- [39:15]
Krystal Ball
Who did it go to and for what purpose? For what purposes? Why was it all offshore? You know, why did all these banks just look the other way? This is the story. And yeah, you're right. I'm glad that Julie K. Brown continues to beat that drum as well, because that is the beating heart of why you're allowed to get away with everything. And also, I think that's what would implicate way more. And this is where, look, I mean, no offense to Donald Trump, but he's not actually even all that wealthy compared to the people who are actually, I was gonna say. But at that time, that's when he was filing for bank bankruptcy and all of that, dealing in the 1980s with the Atlantic City and all that. He didn't actually have the chops to be dealing at the highest levels of global finance. The people who did, they have a lot to lose if those files fall.
- [39:57]
Sagar Enjeti
And I think it was Mark Epstein, Jeffrey's brother, who said that Trump always wanted to fly on Jeffrey's plane because he wanted to save the gas money. Yeah. So I think probably the seven times on his plane is probably an understatement because, remember, they were basically neighbors in Palm beach, lived like a mile away from each other. Obviously they were, were. They were in Manhattan together as well. So a lot to pull back there. Trump says, though, Sagar, this is all going great for him and his approval rating has never been higher. Let's go ahead and take a listen to that.
- [40:27]
Krystal Ball
We've achieved incredible things in a very.
- [40:30]
Sagar Enjeti
Short period of time. And in polling released just last week, it was announced that the approval for.
- [40:37]
Krystal Ball
Congressional Democrats under Hakeem Jeffries has reached.
- [40:40]
Sagar Enjeti
Reached the lowest ever recorded 19%. And Republicans are doing well. And I have the best numbers I've ever had. You know, it's amazing. I watch people on television. Well, what about Donald Trump's polling numbers?
- [40:54]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, they're the best numbers I've ever had.
- [40:56]
Sagar Enjeti
And with this made up hoax that they're talking about, my numbers have gone up four and five points. They want to do anything to get us off the subject of making America.
- [41:06]
Krystal Ball
Great again and we're not going to put up with it.
- [41:12]
Sagar Enjeti
And remember, don't let them forget. It's so important Obama cheated on the election. Look, the camera just went off. The red light just went off. Can you believe these people, how bad they are? So obviously his approval rating is not going up. Although it is important to parse these things because the polls that have come out so far do show that with his bail, his numbers have stayed the same or gone up. I mean, all within the margin of error. But he certainly hasn't fallen off with like Trump supporting MAGA base, self identifying Republican voters. His numbers haven't fallen off at all. If anything, they have actually gone up. But Harry Entin broke down the numbers of how his approval rating is actually doing at this point overall. Let's take a listen to that. Look, he started off back in January, plus 6 points on the net approval.
- [42:01]
Krystal Ball
Rating, minus 3 in March, minus 7 in May, and now he's at a term too low at -11 points.
- [42:08]
Sagar Enjeti
His net approval rating has dropped nearly 20 points in the aggregate since the beginning of his presidency. He's underwater on all the major issues of the day.
- [42:17]
Krystal Ball
Trump's net approval rating on all the.
- [42:18]
Sagar Enjeti
Major issues, minus 5 points.
- [42:20]
Krystal Ball
In immigration, his best issue.
- [42:21]
Sagar Enjeti
He's underwater.
- [42:22]
Krystal Ball
How about the economy?
- [42:23]
Sagar Enjeti
That was what he was elected for, -14 points.
- [42:25]
Krystal Ball
How about foreign policy, -14 points.
- [42:28]
Sagar Enjeti
How about trade and those tariff wars, -15 points.
- [42:30]
Krystal Ball
And of course the Epstein case, the lowest of the bunch, minus 37 points. I do have one piece of good.
- [42:37]
Sagar Enjeti
News for Donald Trump and that there is one other presidency that has a lower net approval rating at this point than this one. The bad news is that it was Donald Trump's other presidency, his first presidency. Net approval rating six months in, the worst was in 2017.
- [42:52]
Krystal Ball
Donald Trump was 16 points underwater.
- [42:54]
Sagar Enjeti
The second worst, however, is this Donald Trump presidency, 11 points underwater. The average president at this point since 1953 has a plus 27 net approval rating. So there you go. That's the reality of where he actually is. I mean, with regard to the base numbers. I was talking to you a little bit about this before, but look, I'm sorry, the liberals were right, it is a cult. And I see this as sort of whether it's an intentional or unintentional, it's basically a 10 test for his base, like will you stay with me? Even as these sort of like core central mythology of maga And Trumpism, even as that is completely blown apart. And it does, it reminds me of the, you know, grab her by the P word moment. It reminds me of these like, doomsday cults that, you know, the day that the world is supposed to end comes and goes. And you would think that faced with this evidence that like, you've been lied to and this is all ridiculous and lo and behold, you're in a culture that people would sort of snap out of it and go about their lives. And some of them do, but many of times what happens is they actually, because they've dedicated so much of their life and their being, their identity, this, they double down on it. And there's some rationalization of, oh well, actually God has given us another chance to recruit more members to our cause. There's some rationalization that spun why it didn't happen this time, but now you have to believe even harder. And when you look at the numbers just among his base, that process is unfolding right now as we speak.
- [44:21]
Krystal Ball
I don't disagree. I mean, I just don't think it's all that unique, I guess. I mean, it's one of those where. Let's think about Russiagate, right? I mean, I mean, we're gonna talk about Russiagate later. Put the actual thing and all that aside. I mean, even after the release of the Mueller report, the vast majority of the Democratic base still believe that Russia stole the election and directly influenced the vote count in 2016. Bullshit. But they still believed it. If you look at the cult around a lot of political figures, Obama is probably a good example. I mean, you have somebody who literally ran a. I mean, I think his approval rating with the Democratic Party never suffered a significant blow up until the day that he left office. And in fact, his affinity at this point is still one of the highest within the party. Right. And so, I mean, that kind of is unfortunately a deep part of the American system. But this is why I do think that the base argument is an irrelevant one, because the base doesn't matter. Bases always stick together. They always are cultish in their support of political parties. If Obama had the Democratic base in his pocket or the Democrats had their base in their pocket, then they would have won the election. They did not win the election. Why? Cuz there are independents, there are other people who still vote, especially in these lower or in these higher turnout elections, like presidential elections. And that ultimately is how Donald Trump came to the Oval Office. I mean, the MAGA base is not gonna win you the state of Pennsylvania. The MAGA Base is not gonna win you. Georgia, it's not gonna win you. Michigan, it's not gonna win you. Wisconsin, it's not gonna win you. North Carolina, Nevada, I could go on Arizona. Right. It's the swing, 2 to 3%. Go look at the margins in PA. It's not like it was a blowout. It was like 1% that he won the state. Those are the people that matter. I think this is an important moment for them. And that's part of why I get frustrated with the convo because, yeah, political bases are by and large cults. Now Trump, I'm not gonna deny, okay, the guy is unique for sure.
- [46:16]
Sagar Enjeti
Like within the context of politics, I think Obama's probably the closest analog. But I still think Trump is unique about.
- [46:23]
Krystal Ball
In your. In my lifetime, he's the closest analog. I'm trying to think about. Reagan actually came pretty close in terms of his cult with the.
- [46:31]
Sagar Enjeti
It's hard for me to really. Cause I was young when Reagan and you weren't even alive. So it's hard for me to like have a real sense of.
- [46:38]
Krystal Ball
Well, I've read about it. People should read the Nixon land books that kind of go into the rise of Reagan. It's important. I mean, he was the most beloved figure in the Republican Party before Donald J. Trump.
- [46:47]
Sagar Enjeti
And I mean, I sort of feel like though his mythology was almost more.
- [46:51]
Krystal Ball
After the fact, though some in some part. I mean, he was still very popular in 1986 and he left. I'm trying, actually. Okay, let's put it this way. Fdr, FDR is probably the most analogous example. Or JFK is another one where, you know, even after he died in the 1980s, you'd walk into a Boston coffee shop or something, there'd be a picture of JFK up there with the Saint medal or something like that. That's a cult, okay? I mean, jfk, he was a martyr to his fair. Yeah, JFK amongst Catholics. I'm just saying that type of stuff is, I wouldn't say normal, but you know, it rhymes throughout American history. But that's not enough to win elections. To win elections, you still have to appeal to a broad enough, you know, base time for a sofa upgrade.
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- [49:01]
Sagar Enjeti
Why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient.
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Krystal Ball
Still using yesterday's tech Upgrade to the ThinkPad iPad X1 Carbon Ultra Light Ultra.
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Sagar Enjeti
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Krystal Ball
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Sagar Enjeti
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Krystal Ball
Stop hitting snooze on new tech. Win the tech search@lenovo.com Lenovo Lenovo unlock AI experiences with the ThinkPad X1 carbon powered by Intel Core Ultra processors so you can work, create and boost productivity all on one device. This is probably a good segue to our Nelk Boy segment because that is a watershed cultural moment for the future of the country. And for a lot of these people who did vote for Donald Trump, put Nelk the guys out of it. I'm talking about young people. Remember young men specifically broke hard for Trump in the 2024 election. Now will they come out to vote again? Nobody knows. All right? I think so. Especially people, especially age. They gain some, you know, grasp in society. They start to. And I think this Nelk boys moment is a very important one for I think both in the Israel conversation, but really politically and media wise as well. So it's been let's transition here. Now the Nelk boys continue to talk both about the details of their interview with Bibi and Netanyahu, but more importantly the incredible amount of remorse that they show that they have never done. Remember, these guys have had on Trump. They had Trump on in 2020. I remember when their episode got taken down after he was talking about the stolen election or whatever they had on Candace. They've had on all the most controversial people. They never apologize. And yet this time, the level of freakout from their own audience and within their own cohort is such that they are doing public mea culpas. Here we have have Kyle from the Nelk Boys basically not only expressing remorse, but saying he would have changed everything about the way that he did his interview with Bibi. Let's take a listen. I wish we could go back in time and, and fucking grill him a thousand times harder. And we just went in there unequipped to fucking interview him. We have a lot of Muslim friends. We fucking. We've been to fucking Dagestan. We all know what's in our hearts. We don't hate anybody. We're not taking sides in this shit. We love everybody. I'm sleeping great. Because I know how I actually feel on the inside, so. And I know a lot of you guys are fucking. And this is not an apology. This is just. We fucking walked in there and we weren't fucking ready for it, man. And we were just. We walked in there uneducated. And I can admit that. But life goes on. There's nothing you could do. It's an apology.
- [51:46]
Sagar Enjeti
He's sleeping great. You can tell it's an apology. He's barely even thinking about this. You're thinking about it, brother.
- [51:51]
Krystal Ball
I mean, he's. I mean, in some ways I'm like, look, you got a bunch of prank frat degen morons who are walking in there and they didn't know what they're doing, but they have enough, okay?
- [52:03]
Sagar Enjeti
These are 30 year old men. Okay. This is the other thing is the infantilizing. Even the nelp. I know that's how. That's their name or whatever. But you're a grown ass man.
- [52:15]
Krystal Ball
Yes.
- [52:15]
Sagar Enjeti
And people warned you. You knew going in.
- [52:18]
Krystal Ball
That's fair.
- [52:18]
Sagar Enjeti
And you didn't do like, like a day of research. Like you didn't do five minutes of research into, oh, here's what he's gonna say. And here's actually what all the organizations say about whether or not they're starving Palestinians. Oh, look, here's a picture of a dead baby who has been starved to death and is clearly amazing. You couldn't be bothered to do that. And the part where he's, oh, I've been to Dagestan. It's like, I mean, and then he's. Well, we don't take anybody's side still just in the, you know, we'll just let people speak their truth. I think it's important because this is the logical conclusion of the idea that you just platform anyone and this is not like against platforming people, but that you just have anyone on and just let them spin some bullshit.
- [53:03]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, that's right.
- [53:04]
Sagar Enjeti
And let them use your platform for their own ends. And the heartening part about it is that their audience was not having it. Like that is actually heartening, but it's still displays that this approach is completely morally bankrupt. And I don't care that you're gonna have quote unquote, the other side on. Like you had the biggest monster on the planet on your podcast and asked him about burger King and McDonald's.
- [53:28]
Krystal Ball
No, that was the only time that they pushed back. Krystal was on Burger King.
- [53:31]
Sagar Enjeti
Was on Burger King. Exactly. I mean, it's just like unbelievable.
- [53:35]
Krystal Ball
And you know what, you're right. At the end of the day, Kyle Saini, you guys are 30 years old, you've built businesses, you're multi millionaires. You're right. I shouldn't excuse. They're idiot because they were also self aware enough where if you remember cause you watched the whole thing in the beginning, they're like, we're so not qualified to do this, bro. You know, like, we shouldn't even be doing this. I can't believe it. Yeah, you're right. And you're like, well, if you have the self awareness to be saying something like that, then like, maybe you shouldn't be saying it. And in fact, the details coming out of this make them look so bad. Here they are admitting that they got a script from the Israeli government when they walked into the room. Let's take a look.
- [54:12]
Sagar Enjeti
Listen.
- [54:13]
Krystal Ball
So we walked in and there was just like 20 people in suits there. Yeah, the setup was already there. Like both flags. We couldn't touch anything or move anything. And they don't give you any restrictions.
- [54:25]
Sagar Enjeti
Like don't ask this.
- [54:27]
Krystal Ball
I'll be, I'll be honest. They gave us a paper with questions to ask, but they also said like, they kind of, you know, they gave us a script to ask, but we didn't really follow it. We tried our very best to, to ask some questions, but I think personally I like the questions you asked. So we tried our best, but we had a script. Now, look, I will defend them in a certain respect. I have interviewed Trump on multiple occasions where the White House will hand me. It's ridiculous. It literally looks like it's from Microsoft Paint, and it'll be like, Trump accomplishments. And it's like a single space document of all of his stuff. You're just like, oh, thank you. And you just, you know, put it off or whatever to the side. But, you know, I was prepared. I had a list of questions that I actually wanted to ask. And it's like, brother, I don't think you asked the questions that you want to ask. And that's the problem where it's not like.
- [55:18]
Sagar Enjeti
It's not like he was like, yeah, they gave us a script. We threw that in the trash. We had no. He's like, well, we. We didn't totally. Like, we didn't totally follow the script.
- [55:25]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. And that also gets to the preconditions. Right. So when you walk in there. So, for example, they're like, oh, we weren't allowed to touch anything. Everything was set up. There's 20 guys. Guys in the room. It basically sounds like what happened is that the Israeli and White House set this. The Israeli government and the White House set this interview up. Yeah, they were like, sure, no problem. They didn't give any conditions. They didn't ask for the ability to ask for whatever they want. Apparently, you know, the whole set is there. By the way, why are there 20 people in the room? That's fucking crazy. I've never. I would never agree to an interview like that. It's insane to have all these people in there. They didn't exist any of, like, the interviewer's prerogative, in my opinion.
- [56:03]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah.
- [56:03]
Krystal Ball
And then you put all that together now with what we're about to show you, which is that they were basically used as useful idiots here by the White House. This was revealed when Hasan started talking with the Nelk boys about the exact circumstances. And here's what they had to say. All right, so you guys interviewed the incarnate Benjamin Netanyahu, and now everybody's yelling at you guys. Ok, so first and foremost, who the set that up? Some communications team at the White House hit us up, connected us with their communications team, and presented us the opportunity to do it, but with the full sun podcast. Hater or love it, right or wrong, if we ever get the opportunity to have a controversial guest on, we're never going to turn it down. Because in my opinion, what we want to do with the full Sen podcast on is we're not afraid to have controversial people on. We're going to ask some questions. Sure. We're probably not the best at asking questions. We're not the best journalists. Journalists never claim to be. So we might not be the best at pressing them, but in my opinion, it's up to the viewer to form their own educated opinion. Just because we have someone on and we're sitting beside someone, people aren't going to be like, oh, my God, milks with them. Like, I love this person. My question is, do you feel like there is a culpability that you have? Because, like, look, Donald Trump is a contentious figure, and obviously he's responsible for a metric ton of pain and violence as well, but so is every other American president. That's one thing. But Benjamin Netanyahu is, like, unique in the sense that he's also a foreign leader because he's getting something out of this, right? He's getting something out of this where he gets to, I guess, like, try and humanize himself. That's the thing that's honest. We'll have anyone on, like, next episode, we're going to have someone on with the complete opposite ideology. We're talking to a few different people, and we want to choose the right person to kind of represent, you know, the opposite side. Okay, But Benjamin isn't just like a podcaster. You know what I mean? Like, he's literally the prime minister that is a war criminal by the International Criminal Court. He's, like, literally branded as a war criminal. I think. I think if you watch it, though, too, I think yes. I mean, I think being signing could have pressed them a little bit harder. But we did ask him, what is your response to when people say you're starving children in Gaza? Do you think October 7th could have been prevented? Are you trying to implement regime change in Iran? We definitely did ask him some questions that I think people wanted to know. Okay, what did he. What did he say? I mean, of course he said for starving children in Gaza. He said that they bring the food in and Hamas steals it and then sells it. That's a lie. No human rights organization that works on the ground, from the UN to the World Food Program, has ever agreed to the Israeli position that this is all Hamas stealing aid or whatever. See, and that that really is what gets to it is like, you know, just tossing things out without being prepared on the facts of it, is actually worse because it means that you just get their response. And, you know, he gets Hasan, I actually think, put it quite well. Trump, I get it's one thing, but baby, in the prosecution of a war, it really is another. When the stakes are so high for millions of people. And people are dying as a direct result. Every single minute of every hour of every day that this continues, the death toll goes exponential. That's another level. Right? And I just come, I said this in our original thing. I was like, look, he doesn't sit with his own goddamn journalists in his country for a reason. Cuz they would ask him questions. Yeah, he only agrees to interview with the fucking Nelk boys and Brett Baier who are all gonna glaze him about Iran. They don't even ask him anything substantive. But you know, to the Fox point. Sit down with Trey Yings, my brother. Go sit down with Trey in your own damn country and see how that goes for you. It's not gonna go well, like for anybody even, who has a quote, you know, neutral stance or whatever, who's prepared with information. And that's the part that just gets me so hard with this Nelk thing.
- [59:57]
Sagar Enjeti
They say something else interesting there, which I think is very illustrative of their mindset. They're like, we'll have on any controversial figure. Like they see him as in the same lane as like Candace Owens or like, you know, Nick Fuentes or whatever. Like they see him in that same bucket. And I was watching RM Brown, who has a YouTube channel, he's a comedian, his take on this, and he was like, in their brains, there are two types of people. People who get clicks and people who don't get clicks. And Netanyahu, in their view, was like, oh, this is someone who. It's like the ultimate example of content brain. Sure, that's good. You know, I think either Adam Friedland or Hasan Piker said this to them too. They're like, not everything is content. Not everything is just about generating clicks and getting eyeballs and stoking some sort of a controversy. So you're the center of attention, like some things actually matter. This man is doing a genocide right now, in real time, with the support of our government. And you are not equipped at all, you acknowledge you are not equipped at all to actually know what's going on and be able to ask him intelligent questions, or even more importantly, ask intelligent follow ups when he lies to your face, as he did multiple times. And so I think that's what this comes down to is like this incredibly amoral view of the world. World, where it's just about like, who's gonna get eyeballs to my channel? This'll be hot topic. This will get me attention. This will get eyeballs to my channel, therefore I'm gonna do it I'll sit down with any controversial figure. That's what they say. As if this is just some podcast or somebody trying to sell some merch or sell a book or whatever. And not to say those things aren't consequential as well, but this is so different. This is on such a day, different scale. And so I hope that it's a cautionary tale because this did not go well for them. I mean, their own audience, their sub count has gone down somewhat. Their own audience completely revolted against them. I haven't seen anyone come out and say, I haven't even seen the Israeli. Like, no, they're humiliated. Like, oh, this was great. And you guys did it.
- [61:55]
Krystal Ball
They compared him to Adolf Hitler afterwards. In what world did that go well for you?
- [62:00]
Sagar Enjeti
What do you, like, in their. In their post interview spin, they're like, yeah, somebody wrote in and was like, yeah, you just interviewed modern day Adolf Hitler. And he's like, yeah, you kind of got a point there. So it's just no one is defending this. Let this be a cautionary tale of, like, if you're going to play in these waters, number one, you could bring someone in. You could have, as a condition from the interview, I need to have whoever it is that you trust that you think is insightful on this to ask some real questions. You know, I'm gonna have this person in the room. I'll do it, but we're gonna have this person in the room too, or just don't do it. That would have been infinitely superior to this absolute mess for yourselves and for the world.
- [62:39]
Krystal Ball
I think it was a good turning point, though, in the culture of the Internet.
- [62:42]
Sagar Enjeti
I think it could be too.
- [62:43]
Krystal Ball
Let's put this final one up here. This is from Mike Cernovich. I actually thought it was very insightful. And what he says is, the Nelk boys, who are wildly popular with zoomers, far more than any political or maga influencer had on Netanyahu. And their audience is furious. Netanyahu is deeply hated. We are talking 90s, more so than even I realize. He actually followed it up with. If you spend time on Twitter, you would think it's like 60, 40. And he's like, no, guys, it's 90 10. And in fact, if you look at the, like, dislike ratio on the video, I mean, look, to be fair, these can be brigaded and all that, but it's like somewhat, you know, indicated.
- [63:16]
Sagar Enjeti
I dug deep into that comment section. I did not see a single positive comment.
- [63:21]
Krystal Ball
Here's 33,000 likes upvotes 168,000. I mean, that's insane. Now, again, you can be brigaded from outside and all of that, but it speaks to the point where there's not a single defense. In fact, every single person in their cohort either is ignoring it or condemning it. Right. And that is really very, very indicative to me. I also think it's a bat signal broadly to everybody on this issue where, like you said, it's not just content, it's really not even. I hesitate to say ditch neutrality, but it's about confrontation and it's really about holding facts, like holding people accountable for facts. And really, if you're going to agree to it, to actually get into the nitty gritty and not allow some eliding lies. And that really was. Was like the biggest problem with the whole.
- [64:18]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, and this is what pisses me off too, is because you and I have done many confrontational interviews. Neither of us likes doing it. I hate doing it. It's not fun. You have to prepare a lot. It's uncomfortable. You know, there are some people out there who like, enjoy the, like debate bro types and they enjoy the fighting.
- [64:36]
Krystal Ball
Views, peers and all these people I hate.
- [64:37]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, I mean, I think Glenn loves to get in and mix it up. Like there are people who are wired that way. Most people are not wired that way. I'm not wired that way. But. But when you have someone who's sitting in front of you who aspires to power, has some position of prominence, it is a responsibility that you have to be prepared and to be uncomfortable if that's what the interview requires. And so this idea that it's somehow like noble and good to do none of that and just let people spout off whatever they want, it actually pisses me off because it's a cowards and a lazy way out. Yeah, it's not fun to have to do those things. I get. But that is actually, if you want to play in these ponds, if you want to swim in these waters, that is actually what is required. And you don't have to be an asshole about it. It doesn't have to be personal, but you need to come equipped with facts and replies and think about, okay, here's what they're going to say and here's how I'm going to follow up. You have to game all of that out in advance and be willing to sit in that discomfort and just do it anyway.
- [65:37]
Krystal Ball
I agree. And that's why the Nelk guys would be better off not doing it and they would have been better off passing and by the way, the fact that the Israelis would only agree to Nelk and not to anybody else, I mean, it tells you something, right? It really does. Like, honestly, I'm being serious, this will sound crazy to say, even like a pro Zionist political person might have actually done a better job because they are going to be equipped with some or they're going to know what to tee him up on and they're going to actually get him on the record for various things instead of generic stuff like what's up with all these people? People starving in Gaza? Or what did he say? He's like, why does everybody hate you? That's a stupid fucking question.
- [66:14]
Sagar Enjeti
And he didn't even ask, like, why are people starving? He said, why do people say, yeah.
- [66:18]
Krystal Ball
That'S right, yeah, exactly.
- [66:20]
Sagar Enjeti
And then Bibi could just oh well, they're lying and we love the Palestinians and we're trying to get them made and Hamas is stealing. And it's just like Every business has an ambition. PayPal open is the platform designed to.
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Krystal Ball
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Sagar Enjeti
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- [67:04]
Krystal Ball
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Sagar Enjeti
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Krystal Ball
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Sagar Enjeti
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Krystal Ball
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Sagar Enjeti
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Krystal Ball
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Sagar Enjeti
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- [67:58]
Krystal Ball
This is an iHeart podcast.