← Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
7/25/2025: BREAKING: Ghislaine Meets DOJ For Potential Epstein PARDON as Gaza STARVES
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- [00:00]
Sagar Enjeti
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:05]
Krystal Ball
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Griffin
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Sagar Enjeti
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Griffin
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Sagar Enjeti
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- [02:00]
Griffin
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- [02:06]
Sagar Enjeti
Hey guys, Sagar and Krystal here.
- [02:07]
Krystal Ball
Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for.
- [02:13]
Sagar Enjeti
The future of this show. This is the only place where you.
- [02:15]
Griffin
Can find honest perspectives from the left.
- [02:17]
Sagar Enjeti
And the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.
- [02:20]
Krystal Ball
So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad, free.
- [02:28]
Sagar Enjeti
And all put together for you every.
- [02:30]
Krystal Ball
Morning in your inbox.
- [02:31]
Sagar Enjeti
We need your help to build the future of independent news Media and we hope to see you@breakingpoints.com welcome, everyone to our Friday show, joined today by producer Griffin Griffin. Thanks for jumping on the stream.
- [02:43]
Griffin
Yes, hello. The inmates are now running the asylum here on the Friday show Breaking Points. And the asylum cameras are missing couple minutes. So if I disappear, I was not depressed. I was not suicidal. Check into Emily.
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Sagar Enjeti
You forgot the guards are also asleep.
- [03:03]
Griffin
The guards are asleep. The cell door video. Yeah. Who knows what cell I'm in? But we're here. We're excited. We've got a huge show for you guys this morning. What do we got?
- [03:15]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah. So this morning we have just a flurry of new Epstein details that have come out in the last 24 hours, both from the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, and some new video clips from Republicans weighing in on what's going on with Ghis Maxwell. We have details on Ghislaine Maxwell's conversations with Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanch yesterday. So you're not going to want to miss that. We are also going to dive into what seems to be a broken dam when it comes to the hunger situation in Gaza and the American media's coverage of it and the American rights ability to reckon with exactly what's happening over there. So lots and lots of details, lots of coverage to analyze and break down. Now, as a remind, these Friday shows, we paywall the second half for premium subscribers. And that's a way for us to go behind the paywall and talk in greater depth even longer about some interesting topics. So, for example, I was on the what will likely be infamous tour of the Federal Reserve building yesterday as part of the White House press pool where Donald Trump is selling. Yes, and yes, they were. And they donned hard hats and had some intimate moments. But also, I got a question to Trump about why he doesn't just fire Jerome Powell. Jerome Powell is wrecking the economy. So we will go behind the scenes on all of that. And we have an interesting new clip of Joe Rogan weighing in on Hunter Biden and maybe the potential political future of Hunter Biden, which is something that Griffin has been supporting for a long time. Griffin is, is a long time. Hunter, you, you bought the dip on Hunter.
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Griffin
I bought the dip early. And, you know, I've always been, you know, people call me a Biden dead ender, but I was like, no, but not for Joe. It's Hunter all the way. So I'm really excited for the upcoming Rogan Hunter episode because I'm excited to learn about all sorts of new drugs that I can Create from home because I'm tired of buying them from guys. So really excited about all that. And we got a little bit of south park, and we'll decide if we'll play that in the first half or the second half based on if Paramount will demonetize us for playing them. So we'll kind of play that by ear.
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Sagar Enjeti
We don't have to merge. We don't have to merge with. With Paramount. So we're okay actually just going, yeah, we don't have to suck up to them at all. But actually, Donald Trump react. We also have Trump reacting to South Park.
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Griffin
So official White House statements. Official White House statements to South Park. We are so back. Trey and Matt, Patriots. Great job there, Patriots. But let's. Let's get to the first Patriot. Bill Clinton.
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Sagar Enjeti
Let's do it. Bill Clinton. This is interesting for a number of different reasons. And maybe, Griffin, you can pull this up while I break it down a little bit. So the Wall Street Journal last week, you may remember, I think it was even last Thursday. So, again, ahead of our preparation for the Friday show, the Wall Street Journal dropped this big story about how Donald Trump wrote a strange letter slash poem in a birthday book for Jeffrey Epstein's 50th birthday that was organized by Ghislaine Maxwell. And the Journal did not publish this picture that was like a sketch of a naked woman's body and then text inside of it, which was a poem. Everyone knows about this by now. Journal dumps it. Last week, Trump administration says, hey, you. You haven't given it to us. You haven't given the picture to us. And. And people who are skeptical said the same thing. Like, it is a little weird that they didn't publish the picture itself. If they have the picture, publish the picture.
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Griffin
It was too. It was too sexy. Too sexy to print.
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Sagar Enjeti
Too sexy to print. Too sexy to print. That's. Yeah, that's a tale as old as time. But that was. It was a little strange when that first happened. But. But the Trump administration challenged the Journal to produce it. And now it appears that what the Journal is doing is basically. I don't know if warning shots is the right way to put it, because I don't think there's any sort of, like, intentional strategic warning. But they're publishing more and more details from the book, including this latest detail, which is that Bill Clinton had a letter in the birthday book. And this is from the Times. They confirmed it. They have this picture of it. And again, a very, very nice letter from Bill Clinton. Griffin, can you make out the text on that.
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Griffin
So this one, to me, Is this a Ghislaine or a Clinton one?
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Sagar Enjeti
I can't recursive you, but that is. I think you're right. That is the Ghislaine note.
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Griffin
That's the Ghislaine one. Let's see if we got the other one here.
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Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, you can. You can see at the bottom. But. So here's the Clinton text of the letter so that nobody has to try to read cursive.
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Griffin
Yeah, pull that up.
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Sagar Enjeti
It's reassuring, isn't it, to have lasted as long across all the years of learning and knowing adventures. And in brackets, the Wall Street Journal says ineligible word. And also to have your childlike curiosity, the drive to make a difference, and the solace of friends. Griffin, what do you make? Wow.
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Griffin
Another friendship. I would say not as romantic as the Trump note. This one felt a little bit more like a collegial. Right. You know, this one didn't really feel as flowery in the language. I mean, unfortunately, there's stuff like childlike, which is just not something that you want to see in a letter to a pedophile. That's not great. But it didn't seem to have as many sort of knowing kind of hints or nudges. But, yes, Clinton was on Jeffrey Epstein's flight, what, 30 million times, and a big elephant in the room. Probably a reason why the Democrats have not jumped as hard as they could on this story. I mean, I have seen, like, Nancy.
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Sagar Enjeti
Oh, they're jumping pretty hard.
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Griffin
You think so?
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Sagar Enjeti
Oh, yeah. I mean, I think they're. I just think they're doing it incompetently. Like Hakeem Jeffries the other day saying.
- [09:46]
Griffin
What do you say?
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Sagar Enjeti
Oh, my gosh. He was. He was trying to dunk on Republicans over Epstein and said something like, yeah, this is not something that Democrats were ever focused on. In the process of dunking on Republicans, he was like, yeah, we just. He kind of said the quiet part out loud, which is not a good way to. It's not a good dunk. It's not a clean dunk.
- [10:09]
Griffin
Hakeem Jeffries, on every subject just seems to be, like, wildly, like, offline or something. He's just like, I haven't heard about that. I'm gonna look into that.
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Sagar Enjeti
Like, that's what Paul Ryan used to do. That's what Paul Ryan used to do. Yes.
- [10:22]
Griffin
Okay. So it's vintage. Yeah. So I don't know, like, now we're getting into Clinton stuff. I do think that, like, you know, this kind of stuff does help the Wall Street Journal because they're showing it's not just all about Trump. They've got letters from all sorts of people like. Which I think makes the reality of this book seem more real. What's your sense of it? Does this validate the existence of the book more?
- [10:48]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, well, yes, this is. They have so much in the story, so they have Leon Black. They have a note for Leon Black. And I have to say, part of what's just so weird about these letters is how, I mean, Clinton talking about the solace of friends, like what solace was provided to him by Jeffrey Epstein in 2003. I would, I would love to know, and I would love to know the adventures that he says he's had long he's had with Jeffrey Epstein. But the way that all of these men are writing such flowery, like, intimate seeming notes to their buddy, it just goes to show, I mean, some of it is probably sucking up because they want donations. For example, this is Leon Black, blonde, red or brunette, spread out geographically with this net of fish. Jeff Snell, the Old man and the Sea. It was signed Love and kisses, Leon. Love and kisses.
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Griffin
I mean, the worst part for me is the hair colors up top. That's, that's just. Yeah, these, these. I mean, you know, there's a lot, A lot, a lot of funny stuff around the handling and the fumbles and the COVID up. But we can't always forget, like in between the laughs. This is like one of the most disgusting, like rings. It's like a, you know, an alleged pedophile ring of like an elite. It's, it's one of the worst things you can do as a person. And just to see them kind of like gloat kind of openly and kind of, you know, kind of be proud almost of this, like, open secret is. Yeah, it's just frankly, really disgusting. So, yeah, I mean, what's your. What, so is your take? Do you think this book is like fully real now? Because I think it's fully real. I still think that they should release the whole thing. Like, we should see the COVID of it. We should see the full book, you.
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Sagar Enjeti
Know, so here's, here's where we might not. Or here's where we get clues about what the Journal actually has its hands on. So we should also mentioned Peter Mandelson, who is the ambassador. The UK ambassador to the US Is in the book referring to Epstein as, quote, my best pal. It was known that Mandelson had some connections to Epstein, that they were friendly, if not friends. But here you have, of course, he's, he is the current ambassador to the US and he's there referring to Epstein as, quote, unquote, my best pal. Now, the Journal says several digital copies of the album have been created. Pages have been reviewed by Justice Department officials who investigated Jeffrey Epstein and Maxwell years ago, according to people familiar with the matter. The album. The album is part of Epstein's estate. It's unclear if any of the pages of the album are part of the Trump administration's recent review of the Epstein case files. Now, they also add. Brad Edwards, a lawyer who repped more than 200 of Epstein's victims, said on MSNBC Wednesday evening that he has multiple clients who remember the birthday book. Jeffrey Epstein's brother, Mark Epstein, told the Journal that he recalls Maxwell putting together the book for his brother's birthday birthday. And the album included a note from Mark Epstein. So what sounds like here is that there are digital copies of this birthday album. That's what the Journal says. And it sounds, the Journal saying that sounds like they haven't seen the original, but they've seen the digital copies that. And they say pages have been reviewed by Justice Department officials who investigated Epstein and Maxwell years ago, according to people familiar with that, with the matter. And it's part of Epstein's estate. So we. What that sounds like is the sourcing is people who looked at it a long time ago or took or they, they reviewed it a long time ago and still have a digital copy because they used to work at the Justice Department and they are now leaking because they no longer work at the Justice Department. But that's also. That's also quite odd. That's, that's strange, to be honest. So, yeah, all of this is weird. I think it's. It's weird for different reasons, but it's not weird because it's fake. At this point, when the original letter came out, that of Trump with the naked woman and all of that, it seemed like a pretty sloppily done report from the Journal because they were rushing to get it to print. They didn't want Rupert Murdoch to pick up the phone and say, I'm killing the story. Which is partially why that leaked over to Oliver Darcy at the time, to kind of force their hands and publishing it. But with that story, it was a little bit like, what if somebody forged this and tossed it into the files? So many people have looked at the files over the years. What if someone did do that? I didn't think.
- [15:36]
Griffin
Or I also heard some, some, I guess, theories that Maybe even just Lane just wrote it and then, like, signed it, you know, like, because it was so kind of flowery. Like, who knows with these books? You know, like, this could have all just been done by a handler or something. Like that was another theory.
- [15:53]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah. And you just never know when you have so many files that have been flipped through by so many different people, and then you have a denial, which, of course, Trump is going to deny it. So if you. If you have a denial and then you have sort of sketchy sourcing and you don't know the full chain of custody. Yeah, I mean, it could. I mean, I do think part of the reason that the Trump administration felt so confident coming out, swinging against the Journal and actually filing a lawsuit is that text of the letter. We can all say a lot of things about Donald Trump, Griffin, that are. Are, you know, across the spectrum from compliment to insult, but it didn't sound like him. It was. It was all just. It. It sounded out of character for him in a way. The women's body doesn't seem out of character. But the. It was just a weird, weird story. But I think what we're learning is that the Journal has its hands, and I think what they're signaling is that they have their hands on, if not the full book, pretty damn close to the full book.
- [16:59]
Griffin
Absolutely. And, you know, so speaking of files, there's a ton of other file stories happening. We've got right here. The New York Times reports of. The justice department has over 100,000 pages of materials related to Mr. Epstein, who died in prison six years ago. During the inquiry, Justice Department officials diverted hundreds of FBI employees and federal prosecutors from their regular duties to go through the documents at least four times, including once to flag any references to Mr. Trump and other prominent figures. And, you know, some of what I've been hearing from the Department of Justice since then is that, well, there's a lot of stuff in there, but there still is no client list. So they weren't. So we weren't lying. There isn't a specific page of this, of the 100,000 documents that says client list title, and then list them all. But, you know, the client list is maybe something a little bit more like amorphous. It could just be details scattered around all these documents. We don't know. So when they say, oh, there's not really a client list in these documents, that doesn't mean that there isn't a ton of incriminating evidence about, like, a wide range of figures that could be involved in these files. And I guess, you know, it. The smartest thing for the Trump administration to do in this moment would be to just, you know, shoot as many out as possible. Redact the hell out of them, even if you want to, but like give your base something in this moment. So, but instead Trump isn't doing any of that. He's just doing true social posts, calling it a hoax. Obama, you know, Schiff, all those people. And that doesn't seem to, I don't know, tell me, from the, from the, from the MAGA side, is that helping? Is that, is that diverting the attention enough? Or do they, does he really need to feed his base some raw meat? Some, some, some redacted raw files here?
- [18:56]
Sagar Enjeti
Well, I think a bunch of different things can be true. I think looking at MAGA world, they are going to. And Crystals made this point. They are going to, you know, he's right about being able to shoot someone on Fifth Avenue, essentially. Like you can molest someone on Fifth Avenue. Hopefully not literally, but maybe literally. And the base will stick with Donald Trump. They may not happy about sticking with Donald Trump. They may be, and this is some, there's probably some credence to the fact that this is them strategy. It may depress enthusiasm among the MAGA base for Trump. That doesn't mean they don't still stick with Donald Trump because they always see him as the imperfect. Like that's kind of been baked into it for a while, that he's, he's imperfect. He was part of the system. That's what he campaigned on.
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Griffin
He was part of the elites.
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Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, yeah. He said, I alone can fix it because he was part of the system. That was kind of his pitch. And so, so for them it's, it seems to be a matter that it could dampen enthusiasm. But I don't think anybody is, is like breaking off and saying like, we're now Vance heads. I don't think that's exactly what's going to happen, but I think what he really has to be concerned about is the kind of Rogan demo. And that's an obvious point, but that sort of independents who look at this and on Andrew Schultz's show. Sorry, I'm blanking on the name of flagrant. Oh, no, no. Yeah, it was him. I think now that you say that, he made a really interesting point when they were talking with Ezra Klein, actually, he said, for me, this is like the straw that breaks the camel's back. I'm paraphrasing him. Like, this is for me the last point about, like him Saying he's gonna do things and not doing them. This, for me was like the final straw, essentially, is what you're saying. And I do think that's a good, like, indication that people who were casual Trump voters vibe Trump voters for good reasons. I don't mean that pejoratively. Like, they looked around and said, like, this guy's better. And even if we don't agree with that, it's a way that a lot of people make up their minds. And it's, I think for, for that type of voter, this is devastating for Trump. Like, that's, I don't know how big that part of the electorate is, but it was big enough to swing. We've seen new Gen Z poll numbers that are hitting record lows amidst the Epstein SC handle. So it's not as though MAGA is the problem here. It's. It's more the, the type of casual vibe Trump person. I don't know.
- [21:30]
Griffin
I don't think it's. I think it's also young maga, like, you know, young Sheldon. Like, it's, it's just like I, I talk to people that are like my age and lower that are, you know, MAGA people and, you know, they're upset about Iran, they're upset about Israel, and then they're also like, like just super, you know, I mean, upsets. One word. Maybe embarrassed or they just find it cringe. Like, it's just, it's not very energizing. I did want to go back to the, the Democrats for a second because you mentioned Ezra Klein, the Schultz thing. And I, you know, I mean, like I said, like, yeah, Pelosi said, like, release the Epstein files or whatever. Hakeem Jeffries is like, I gotta look into that. But, like, it does seem like such a bag fumble for the Democrats to not ride this. And I think Ezra Klein's sort of response about the Epstein stuff on Andrew Schultz was really revealing of the Democrats. Kind of like, I think, very silly strategy with this because, you know, when asked about the Epstein stuff, Ezra's like, oh, you know, I don't, I'm not really into conspiracy theories, but isn't it embarrassing how Trump's admin is handling this? And that's not enough to suck up these people that are, you know, that are upset. You could be pulling over more independence by going, you know, really fire and brimstone on this and not being. And I think the Democrats kind of have this sense of, oh, we're better than this, we're not QAnon or whatever. But you don't have to be QAnon to, to make some of these basic connections in this case where a bunch of people are recorded hanging out with him on these flights going to the island. And I'm sorry but like that's, that's just not QAnon. That's just doing any kind of basic research on the subject. What do we got here, Democrats?
- [23:19]
Sagar Enjeti
I pulled up the Democrats Twitter feed because this is something I think maybe they learned from Zoramdani is that they have to silo their messaging. And when you're talking to reporters, print reporters in Congress like Hakeem Jeffries was, it's sort of different than when you're trying to message on Twitter, which should have been an obvious point. You probably didn't need Zoran to teach you that. But I've seen them doing it way more now. So just as we were speaking, Griffin, they put out this little video that says new don't let Republicans bury the truth about Trump and Epstein. Watch our latest ad now live in 12 GOP held House districts. Call your representatives, the ad says over that infamous footage of Jeffrey Epstein at Mar a Lago with Donald Trump. Republican shut down Congress to bury the truth. Call your reps, demand they release the Epstein files. So they are now running this in red districts, GOP held House districts. And then if you keep scrolling down, they are memeing Epstein files that wow, it's over. It's over. Then they have Summer Lee on the Epstein files. Then they have this is just from like the last 12 hours, Ken Martin. Don't forget that House Republicans skipped out of town a block votes on the Epstein files. Then they created this little meme Griffin pedophile protectors over the Republican logo.
- [24:31]
Griffin
They're starting to get some juice. They're starting to get some as the kids say motion.
- [24:35]
Sagar Enjeti
It's all about, it's all about Epstein. Here's the, the one right after that you do the math on Ghislaine Maxwell. They say then the pedophile protection party set down Congress because they know Trump's in the Epstein files. They keep rocking the Summer Lee clip. Here's another one.
- [24:49]
Griffin
Another summer.
- [24:51]
Sagar Enjeti
Well, I missed this because another Ken Martin post on Epstein, another Summer Lee post on Epstein, another Epstein post. They have literally been posting almost entirely about Epstein. Granted this is just on X And I think Griffin, that you are right that there is this among the sort of, it's a problem for Democrats actually that the commentary, the commentariat, the, the chattering class is actually so liberal in A sense like it bites them in the ass every now and then because they think they are too good. I, I agree with you.
- [25:24]
Griffin
They're better than this story. Right?
- [25:26]
Sagar Enjeti
They've minimized, they've minimized and downplayed it. And they would look at those Dem meme posts and be like, that's kind of icky like that These read like maga Twitter. And that's actually, that tells me that whoever over there is over there doing this for the DNC is like on the digital beat, is actually doing a great job right now because that's how you like get back into the demo that you're going for now. Doesn't mean that it's not cynical, doesn't mean that it's a matter of great principle. But I think you're right.
- [26:00]
Griffin
They sense blood in the water. That's interesting.
- [26:03]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, of course. Yes, absolutely. And I think you're right though, that they feel as though the, the sort of chattering class has spent so much time downplaying the story as the QAnon fever swamp that it's very difficult for them to now reckon with the potential ramifications because they're on the record over and over again and even like on the cocktail party circuit with their friends being like, nothing, nothing to see here.
- [26:29]
Griffin
Yeah, I mean, this is not comet pizza, okay? Like, this is something far more substantial than that. But I think it all gets lumped together in like the same attitudes or whatever. But I mean, listen, the Trump has lost the QAnon Shaman. The, this, this whole, you know, Pizzagate QAnon coalition like is breaking. Maybe you're, maybe they're too good for their votes, I guess, you know, Ezra Klein maybe needs to get on the, on the Democrat Twitter account be. Because I think that like, yeah, Summer Lee, some Democrat congressmen, like, but they don't have that presence, that Internet presence to really like, yeah, the Democrat Twitter account, if you're following it, you're already like very locked in. But I think like they need real vocal like on camera leadership stuff like grilling about this constantly if they're going to like own the subject and not kind of be bystanders to the event. But anyways, good for the Democrats Twitter account.
- [27:31]
Sagar Enjeti
And let's just, while we're on the New York Times article, I do want to kind of dissect the sourcing and some of the information that they're revealing here, the picture that they're painting because this is the most, I think, complete, this is the most complete picture of what's been happening at the DOJ and the FBI over the course of the Trump administration related to Epstein that we've so far. So the Times reports that over the spring, FBI DOJ made, quote, an all out push involving hundreds of employees to scour the Epstein files with a single goal in mind. Find something, anything that could be released to the public to satisfy the mounting clamor from the angry legions of President Trump's supporters. So what we get from that is actually the New York Times reporting that there is this, quote, all out effort with hundreds of employees scouring the Epstein files. Now, they imply that it's being directed very cynically. And I think this is important because that likely goes back to Pam Bondi as the Attorney General, saying that all you have to do is find something that'll satisfy the public. Now, the Times continues. After devoting countless hours to the project, working at times around the clock, searching databases, hard drives, network drives, cabinets, desks and closets, the Bureau and the department finally acknowledged this month that they had little to show for their efforts. And then, Griffin, you noted they came to realize that there was no client list. But also, let's keep going here. They say this captive frenetic scrambled to sort more than 100,000 pages of materials. 100,000 pages of materials. We now know because of this New York Times report that the Justice Department has more than 100,000 pages of materials related to Jeffrey Epstein. And that they, according to the Times, diverted hundreds of FBI employees and federal prosecutors from their regular documents to go through duties, to go through the documents at least four times, and they say, including once to flag any references to Mr. Trump and other prominent figures. And just finally, I want to point out that the times of sourcing, this is interesting with the Wall Street Journal sourcing that we were just discussing. They say details of the review were based on accounts by three former FBI and Justice Department officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of fears of retaliation. So, Griffin, this is really important because it tells us at this point that where some of these leaks may be coming from to the Journal and the Times, people who were at the doj, at the FBI during the Trump administration and who are no longer there, you can think about people like, for example, what was her name? Danielle Sassoon, who has now taken a job with the Manhattan Institute. She sort of quit in protest over whether or not the administration was following court orders. Early on. You could, I have no idea if she's involved in this, but you can think about a person like that who would have Knowledge of what was happening may be getting it secondhand, though. I mean, that's another thing is if they left, how much do they. They know about the inside. Or we can't make conclusions about the sourcing other than that it sounds likely it's disgruntled people who have left during the Trump administration. Right. That doesn't.
- [30:48]
Griffin
Yeah, but to me, like, 100,000 documents, 100,000. Like that is. That is. The volume alone is incredibly incriminating, not just on Epstein, but on the Department of Justice, who's had these for how long, like in multiple administrations at this point, that, like, you know, yeah, obviously we can poke a lot of fun at what's going on with the Trump administration, but just the idea that they've had, like, what must be terabytes of documents that just, like, were just collecting dust until someone wanted to talk about it again, or there was enough pressure, like, I think just the. The volume itself is so. Is such an indictment of, I think, both parties, that none of this stuff had been released in any. In any kind of redacted form. And there just seemed to be. Oh, just. I guess no one really cares about this kind of, like, like Trump said, kind of boring. Kind of boring stuff, I guess, kind of boring. But, you know, we do have more material news. But did you have anything more than New York Times?
- [31:45]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, I just wanted to add quickly that it's worth noting because we're hearing now from people that all these 100,000 pages, you know, only it's like a needle in a haystack. Like maybe one line in One of those 100,000 pages is your smoking gun or is. Is worth, you know, disclosing to the public. But that's not how we should be doing this. Like when you get JFK files, for example, as they have been shamefully dripped out over the years. Yeah, you get a lot of boring documents. That's good, because the boring documents are coming out, showing that you're just sort of getting it all out to the public. And so, no, it's not good if you're only putting out the boring documents intentionally to keep running out the clock. But nobody is saying, please refrain from releasing boring documents, because sometimes even those boring documents, members of the public are able to compare with the public record, are able to read something deeper into that. The government, you know, is like, put the boring documents out. We would all love to see the boring documents, so long as, of course, they're not retraumatizing victims. And if they are mentioning different people, you do have to be careful that they're not not obviously incriminating people whose names randomly pop up because someone you know made a mistake or whatever. Like nobody, nobody's interested in a wild goose chase. Like people just want justice. They want to understand why Donald Trump and Bill Clinton wearing a birthday album in 2003 for Jeffrey Epstein. And fortunately people have or unfortunately for them, people have filled in the blanks for years and not unreasonably so with some really disgusting theories. And they aren't disproving them, unfortunately. So at this point it's pretty clear that they don't have a lot to do to disprove them.
- [33:39]
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- [35:46]
Griffin
There's more document news here. Outside of the hundred thousand documents, apparently Lady Ghislaine has a box of material of her own. She was just met with Trump's deputy attorney general. And we've got a little video right here that I'll share.
- [36:05]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah.
- [36:06]
Griffin
Of her.
- [36:06]
Sagar Enjeti
This is video of Maxwell returning to prison just moments after meeting with Trump's deputy attorney general.
- [36:12]
Krystal Ball
And, and you can see her there, actually, if you look closely. She's carrying a box of material. Maxwell attorney says she was forthcoming with every question that Trump's team threw at her today.
- [36:23]
Sagar Enjeti
Okay, so Deputy yeah. Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche was announced by Pam Bondi yesterday, and he confirmed this himself, that he was going to meet with Ghislaine Maxwell in federal prison. And Blanche did meet with Ghislaine Maxwell indicated after that meeting that they are going to meet again today, I believe. And Aaron Burnett rightfully pointed out there on cnn, Ghislaine Maxwell was coming back from that meeting ostensibly with a giant box. You could see her, like, actually in the second clip that CNN rolled, sort of struggling with the weight of the box. That. That's quite interesting. That's quite interesting.
- [37:06]
Griffin
Is she keeping that in her cell? Like, is she like, using as, like a, like a, like a prop up for a pillow? Like, I. What is, what is the, what does she get to have that in her cell? Like, can we, can someone visit her and see the box? Like, what, what is. I wasn't aware that, like, you could just have classified materials in your, in your prison cell.
- [37:26]
Sagar Enjeti
Well, they may not be classified, they may just be personal affects. And, but that's very odd also to me that you would have personal affects. What it could be. Is that so? Ghislaine Maxwell's attorney also obviously has been involved in this whole process. This is from AG Blanche, who does say on the screen, you see, I met with Ghislaine Maxwell and I will continue my interview of her tomorrow. The DOJ will share additional information about what we've learned at the appropriate time. So that means they could be meeting literally as we speak here. Griffin. But what the box could have been supplied to Maxwell by her attorney, to whom she has given some of these materials. And I think we have here, yes, we have here a statement from Ghislaine Maxwell's attorney, whose name is Dave Marcus on all of this. Let me put that up on the screen, David Oscar Marcus. He says looking forward to another productive day tomorrow. Ghislaine honestly answered every question that Deputy A.G. blanche asked, and she will continue to do so. We are grateful that the government is trying to uncover the truth. They have never before spoken with her. And we trust the process.
- [38:30]
Griffin
Trust the process, trust the plan.
- [38:32]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah. Now this is getting interesting because. Well, first of all, the point that the government has never done this. I mean, if. If that's the good that comes out of this Trump administration circus, then I guess if we end up getting more information out of this Trump administration circus because they fumbled the bag, looked ridiculous because Trump told them not to put anything out, then, I mean, good, I guess. But where this is going is. Let's take a listen here to Charlie Kirk.
- [39:07]
Griffin
They are in discussions with the federal government about holding discussions. Maxwell is currently sentenced to 20 years.
- [39:13]
Sagar Enjeti
In federal prison for sex trafficking, but.
- [39:15]
Griffin
Is pursuing a claim that her trial was unfair. Since she is still contesting her own case, that may impact what she is ready to tell prosecutors. But maybe some kind of a deal could be reached for information. We will see.
- [39:28]
Sagar Enjeti
Okay, so that's Charlie Kirk saying maybe a deal could be made. And here we also have Griffin representative Tim Burchett, who has said all kinds. He's sort of known for saying wacky stuff.
- [39:42]
Griffin
He's a yapper.
- [39:44]
Sagar Enjeti
He's a yapper. He sure is. And I saw him walking around the house last week with a skateboard, which he. Okay, his own skateboards. He makes his own skateboards. I don't even know.
- [39:56]
Griffin
We need a Tim Pool. Tim Burchett combo. Tim, actually.
- [39:59]
Sagar Enjeti
Oh, they're probably already working on it. Yeah. So. So, yeah, I mean, he. He's been on this story, but also said, you know, things like, I also hang out with dirt bags like. Or people hang out with dirt bags like me. I think that's another thing he said yesterday, but here's what he said about it.
- [40:15]
Griffin
There's a difference between dirt bags and pedophiles. I'll say. You know, we're all allowed to have a dirt bag friend, maybe not a pedop girlfriend.
- [40:21]
Sagar Enjeti
Well, it's like a square. What is it? A rhomus is always a square, but a square is never a rhombus. So.
- [40:26]
Griffin
So true.
- [40:27]
Sagar Enjeti
Pedophile is a dirt bag. Right. So here's. Here's bur.
- [40:33]
Griffin
No, she is a liar and she's a dirt bag. Well, because the one thing we got holding over her head is if we find out she lies, she goes back to her original sentence, and that's. That's looking at lifetime. And if she's looking at maybe. Maybe parlaying this into reducing her sentence, then we could have some leverage there.
- [40:52]
Sagar Enjeti
Okay, so Griffin. Yeah, there's, you know, all of that sounds, in theory, fine, because that's the normal process here. That's how oftentimes you get bombshell type information that helps you better understand and pursue justice. In the case of Epstein, for example, Epstein himself, for example, and the victims. But combined with the details about Donald Trump's friendship with Jeffrey Epstein, combined with Donald Trump's DOJ's history of obfuscating just in the course of six months on Epstein, the possibility that you end up with some type of deal struck to exonerate Trump while getting to, say, Bill Clinton, for example. Yes, sure. That is a different story. So the idea of striking a deal with Ghislaine Maxwell now for her victims and Epstein, Epstein's victims probably sounds absolutely disgusting on its face. And we don't know exactly what a deal would look like, what kind of deal it would be. You know, does she still spend life in prison? What does it look like? I don't know. But the idea that politically the Republicans could, like, just pardon Maxwell and get away with it, they can't. I mean, that would take another level of idiocy because people who are power hungry typically aren't quite that dumb, but we'll see.
- [42:30]
Griffin
And also, she was, correct me if I'm wrong, already criminally charged. That's the reason that she's like, like currently in jail. So, like, you are essentially freeing someone who was criminally charged for sex trafficking, for taking minors across state lines or traveling them for the purposes of sex trafficking. So, yeah, it would seem like a little absurd to be like, well, Trump's not, Trump's not in it and refreeing, just like maybe like they're talking about a reduced sentence. But I mean, think about it from like, Ghislaine's perspective. Like, essentially your option is like, to tell a certain truth, to get a limited reduced sentence or to be freed. That doesn't implicate Trump or any of the Trump DOJ handling or any of that. Or you tell a truth that implicates Trump. And what. So they're going to be like, oh, you were extra honest, so we're still going to free you or reduce your sentence? No, like, of course that's not going to happen. So it doesn't seem like. It seems like no matter what comes from these just laying testimonies or interviews or questions, that it needs to all be very, very heavily scrutinized and that we're probably only seeing a Small peek through the curtain. Even if some of the stuff that she says does turn out to be true, it's probably going to be very partisanly directed in one direction. And listen, like, I, I think taking anybody down Democrat, Republican, independent, or, you know, not non political ace, you know, celebrities, you know, a listers, like, I'm okay with basically anyone going down is an improvement. But yeah, it's like, it really does seem like this is kind of starting to be crafted in a way to protect Trump. But it doesn't really seem like they've thought through the ending of that story. Story. Because I don't think people that are upset about the handling right now are going to feel good about Jizz Lane getting any kind of reduced sentence. Like, I don't think there's any ending to that story that makes people happy.
- [44:39]
Sagar Enjeti
I'm so uncomfortable with the way you pronounce your name. Griffin.
- [44:42]
Griffin
Sorry, Giz. Ghislaine.
- [44:45]
Sagar Enjeti
You know, I'm Lane, but you're. Even if, even if it is just Lane, you are so emphatic about the first half of the word.
- [44:54]
Griffin
I, I don't, I don't want to be psychoanalyzed on this podcast. I'm, I'm doing my best with all the names today.
- [45:02]
Sagar Enjeti
We should, we should actually, that, that is, we should do an episode like the It's Always Sunny episode where they get analyzed by Carrie Kenny Silver as the therapist. I think it's called the Gang Gets Analyzed. We should do that with the Breaking Points crew.
- [45:16]
Griffin
That can be in a paywalled second half of a Friday show for sure.
- [45:19]
Sagar Enjeti
Oh, it would have to be paywalled. Yeah.
- [45:22]
Griffin
I do think, though, that the, the, the MAGA commentators, the people that are trying to take the smoke off of Trump, are flying very close to the sun with this one we've got here from Newsmax describing Ghislaine as a victim.
- [45:38]
Sagar Enjeti
She's also been subpoenaed by the oversight committee.
- [45:42]
Griffin
I think this is great.
- [45:43]
Sagar Enjeti
I do have a feeling that she has been. She just might be a victim. She just might be.
- [45:51]
Griffin
There was a rush to judgment. There was a lot of chaos there for a while. All right, granted, she hung out with Jeffrey Epstein. Granted, granted, hung out.
- [46:01]
Sagar Enjeti
Granted, she procured the women. Granted, the women who have been victimized have said that it was Ghislaine Maxwell who was oftentimes either abusing them or procuring them for abuse. That aside, she may also be a victim.
- [46:16]
Griffin
Yep. The hangout was limited. So not only are they. You know, I think this is just A huge, huge fumble. Because it's like, listen, if. If you're gonna be, like, questioning her and suggesting a reduced sentence, you gotta still say that she's bad. Like, you can't be like, actually this whole thing might be wrong. Like, maybe everybody's innocent in this was so rushed. So, yeah, I. I do think that this stuff may actually come around to. To potentially hurt them even more. Unless the only. The only antidote is just a mass dump of documents. And, yeah, you can redact the hell out of them or whatever, but, like, that is the only cure to this, not like a. A rehabilitation of Maxwell.
- [47:03]
Sagar Enjeti
Ghislaine Maxwell. Well, if you start rehabilitating Ghislaine Maxwell, then, yeah, you. You lay the work for potential. I'm not saying Greg Kelly is doing that, but if people in the MAGA world start getting nudged by the Department of Justice to rehabilitate Glenn Maxwell and saying, hey, hey, she was sort of railroaded on this, this and that, and you start seeing rhetoric like this, then, yeah, it's. It's definitely a sign. I mean, Maxwell, if anything was like, got off kind of easy, so people can go revisit how she was prosecuted, but the idea that she's a victim is, like, beyond far fetched. I don't even sort of want to do it justice now, Griffin, you want to steel, man.
- [47:45]
Griffin
That.
- [47:46]
Sagar Enjeti
I don't even feel the need to at this point, but I'm sure we will get all kinds of steel Manning of that in the days to come before we get to. Well, actually, we might as well at this point, get to the south park dust up and Gen Z a little bit. Although I guess south park is sort of millennial coded. I don't know. The. The Zoomers can. The Zoomers who are like zoomer hipsters who watch south park can correct me in the comments. I'm. I'm sure you will.
- [48:21]
Griffin
Well, the Zoomers are watching it in, like, 32 sections on tick Tock. Okay, so we. We're not respecting their viewing habits.
- [48:28]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, it's like Quibi never died. Could we always do with this?
- [48:33]
Griffin
Whoa. You know what Queeby was. That's a. That's a very deep cut.
- [48:36]
Sagar Enjeti
Oh, I. I was. I was on Quibi screeners. I was watching.
- [48:41]
Griffin
Whoa.
- [48:42]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah. Yeah. I used to be a culture writer, Griffin, lest you forget. But, yeah, lots of. Well, basically, I used the Quibi screeners just to watch the Reno 911 screeners and called it.
- [48:54]
Griffin
Oh, okay, all right, all right. You're. You're innocent. Actually, you're you're a victim. You're a victim, just like Maxwell.
- [49:02]
Sagar Enjeti
Thank you. Thank you for acknowledging that.
- [49:05]
Griffin
Finally, South Park.
- [49:06]
Sagar Enjeti
Well, actually, let's just put a bow on the Trump segment. This is both. It's given them a lot to work with, and it's given them. So they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. And I just want to say that's, that's kind of an obvious point, but because of the nature of the Epstein case, I think this is worth noting. It gives them a huge advantage and a huge disadvantage. The huge advantage is that this is sprawling. This case sprawls across industries, across, across decades and across, like, different crimes that have potentially been committed. So what that means is like the Kennedy file, and I think that's where this is heading. The Trump administration and any other administration can come in and run out the clock and keep pulling at threads here, threads there, and say, we're waiting, we're waiting, we're waiting. Okay, we got what we wanted, wasn't enough here. So we're going to go over here. We're going to go look at those Treasury Department records. Okay, well, we're going to go talk to Maxwell in prison. And then you don't hear from it. You don't hear much from it for a few months. And then by the time the administration is over, they've sort of gone through the motions of pulling on these threads and we have gotten drips and drabs. And I think that's probably what will happen. We will get drips and drabs. And people who wanted drips and drabs or wanted more information will say by the end of the Trump administration, they gave us something. But of course, by giving you something, they've probably often hidden other things. We're learning this right now with the Joanides file in the Kennedy case, that you can disclose all kinds of things and use those disclosures, as good as the disclosure is, as a way to obfuscate. And so I think that's where we're heading. I think it's an advantage for the Trump administration that the case is so sprawling and for any political party, Democrats as well, given the Clinton affiliations that they are now conveniently ignoring. But this is going to be an advantage for the political class to just run out the clock on the case until basically everybody is dead, which is what's happening, exactly what's happening with the Kennedy case. So I think that's where this is totally. Griffin.
- [51:05]
Griffin
Interesting. Well, and then my final bow is this statement from Trump, who, you know, is feeling still very stressed about all this, how Trump sees it. Trump has ruminated about the Epstein fallout for weeks. They're going to accuse me of some funny business, he said recently in the Oval Office, according to a Republican close to the White House who personally heard the president make those comments.
- [51:25]
Sagar Enjeti
Comments.
- [51:25]
Griffin
Trump again maintained his distance from Epstein's criminal behavior, but lamented, they're gonna fuck me anyways. So. Well, we'll see. We'll see who's getting fucked by the end of this thing. Could be quite a quite a few people. But did we want to move on.
- [51:42]
Sagar Enjeti
To south park now? The answer is yes. Let's move on to south park and South Park's war with the Trump administration. Now, we should be clear at the top of this, this, Griffin and I are going to play some of the full video in the paywall section. So breakingpoints.com if you want to see that and get the second half of these Friday shows, we're going to roll the clip there, but for copyright reasons, obviously. But there are some poll numbers that we're going to talk about along with the Trump administration's war on South Park. So Griffin set this up for us, and then we'll talk a little bit about what's happening. Like, this was happening in the White House while I was in the briefing group yesterday, and the scuttlebutt was like, it was one of those where everybody was like, oh, they just brought out a statement on south park. So set us up for us.
- [52:30]
Griffin
Yeah. So, I mean, this is admits of a $1.5 billion deal from Paramount to own all of the south park catalog and all of the future episodes coming out, which is a massive media deal. And Trey and Matt have done what is honestly the most honorable thing to do as a comic, which is to spit in the face of the money men and, you know, kind of stick their a nose at kind of everyone by immediately taking that money. And I actually don't know if that deal is even fully finished being inked yet, but taking that deal and immediately going, and essentially going, I was what I'm calling dark woke against Trump. We're gonna. We're gonna play. I'm gonna just. I'm gonna share without video. And I'll describe it for the audio listeners here. What we're looking at. Midas Touch ended up sharing some of the copyrighted version of this here. I won't play the audio, but this is, I think, the scene that upset people the most. If you're seeing this on screen right now. Are you seeing this, Emily?
- [53:39]
Sagar Enjeti
Yep.
- [53:40]
Griffin
So this is a AI video that ended the south park episode of Trust. Trump walking through the desert, taking off all of his clothes, getting naked. And then I'm not gonna, you know, I'm not gonna show this last part for the YouTube censors, but revealing his micro penis. And then his micro penis speaks. And that's the end of the episode. Wow. It reminds me, you know, it really reminded me of like early resistance in 2016 around Trump. And this, like, you know, this, this, the micro penis thing was huge in 2016. I remember in LA, there was this coffee shop that installed a naked Trump statue that, that showed and it was actually a big flare up and they actually ended up taking the statue down and apologizing because. Because back then it was normal woke and they're like, actually, this is body shaming. This is wrong. We don't like him, but it's wrong to be a body shamer. But now in this Trump 2 era, now we're in dark woke, now body shaming is back in a big way, and we're allowed to be as cruel and sort of as rude and as disgusting as the other side because they deserve it.
- [55:02]
Sagar Enjeti
It will be really interesting if the death of Cancel culture makes Dems attack on Trump more potent because cancel culture's over. Dems, like, actually get their mojo in attacking Trump because they don't have to worry about body shaming Donald Trump, like, if it actually empowers the attacks on Trump. But that's actually a thing, by the way. Not that south park was compliant with, with quote unquote wokeness, but there, there was just like a total chill of obviously comedy on the left for the first Trump administration. That's when all of this was building. So it may be the case actually, that this is a. These attacks on. On Trump are going to be a lot better. Honestly, I kind of. I'm not a South park fan. That probably won't surprise anybody, but I kind of expected better from the clips that I've seen. Like, am I right? Like, I don't know. I feel like there's more. The super dawn micro penis stuff is so. It feels like, it feels like. So it doesn't have substance.
- [56:14]
Griffin
It feels like it's. Yeah, I've been like, yeah, well, there, there's a few things about it and kind of put a pin in that because I do have a little bit more to. To say about like the, I guess the, the type of comedy they're doing with it, but there was a lot of this did feel like a big moment for the show because they'd refused to mention Trump before this. They had set up a different character as a Trump stand in this, like, teacher at the school who, like, painted his face orange. And he was kind of the Trump stand in because they feel like they didn't want to just be like, ripping on Trump every week. They felt like it might be tired territory because that's what the rest of the media was doing. But it seems like now they're just like, you know what? Fuck it. If he's going to be around for another four years, you know, we might as well do it. And they represented Trump in the show in sort of a very sort of full circle way as what they used to do for Saddam Hussein.
- [57:08]
Sagar Enjeti
Right.
- [57:10]
Griffin
So we're just gonna play it with no audio here, but for people who just listening, they're doing a full animated realization of like, Trump's face, but they're doing it in the style that they used to do Saddam Hussein. And in the episode, they are like, oh, you know, the biggest, I think, think substantial critique the episode makes about Trump at all is that Trump is acting like a Middle east dictator is essentially what they say.
- [57:39]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, that's not a bad. I mean, that's actually more novel. Like, right? He's, he's guil. He's like redecorating the Oval Office to look like, as Sagar always says, yeah, there you see him in bed with Satan and we'll say, yeah, we'll get into that in the premium half. But he is like redecorating the Oval Office to make it look like, as Sagar says, Versailles, but like, as other people say, Saddam's palace. Right? That's, that's what it's giving. It's giving Saddam. And so that's, I mean, there's something to it, right? Like, he loves being sort of a, I, I say mob boss in a sense that I don't know how much he would even disagree with it. Right. Like the Roy Cohn, I'm in charge and I'm going to actually act like I'm in charge, not like I'm delegating all to the bureaucracy, but.
- [58:27]
Griffin
And they zero in on the lawsuit part. They zero in in south park on the, oh, I'm going to sue you. Like, they kind of make Trump's lawsuits to be the voice, like, I'm going to sue you. They, they make the lawsuits and how Trump sues people to be this kind of like essentially like, bitch made kind of way of acting. It's like, oh, like his main thing is like, whenever he doesn't like someone, he's going to sue them. And there, that's kind of like the main critique of Trump in this. Outside of like, Middle east dictator, there's really no talk of like, immigration or any of the other things that I guess liberals are upset about with Trump. I mean, there's like a little bit about like, bombing or something like that, but essentially the episode cuts to just sort of like a deeper character critique of Trump that he is this Middle east dictator, that he's very full of himself and that he is in bed with Satan and that, that he sues people because he is so insecure himself. And this all really triggered the White House so much that the White House felt like they had to give an official statement, which I'm going to put on the screen here.
- [59:35]
Sagar Enjeti
They gave a statement to Rolling Stone. So Rolling Stone reached out. Clearly, Rolling Stone reached out and the White House responded.
- [59:43]
Griffin
And the White House said through dried tears, the left's hypocrisy truly has no evidence. For years they have come after south park for what they labeled as offensive content. But suddenly they're praising the show. Just like the creators of south park, the left has no authentic or original content, which is why their popularity continues to hit record lows. This show hasn't been relevant for over 20 years and is hanging on by a thread with uninspired ideas. In a desperate attempt for attention, President Trump has delivered on more promises in just six months than any other president in our country's history. And no fourth rate show can derail President Trump's hot streak. So, you know, the, the best way to tell people you're not mad is by giving a very lengthy statement about why you're not mad.
- [60:35]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, that's a good point. So people found a Don Jr tweet. I'm pulling it up right now. An old Don Jr tweet. And I think this is when south park was. Yeah, here it is. This was him. This is Don Jr responding back in 2023 to South park going after what someone on Twitter said was, quote, unquote, woke Disney content. But here's Don Jr. Said, this is the poll numbers on Gen Z. We're going to get to that in a second. Sorry, we're sharing this one. Don Jr. Ha ha, ha ha ha. As always, do it all.
- [61:15]
Griffin
Yeah, every ha.
- [61:17]
Sagar Enjeti
South park doesn't miss 2023.
- [61:21]
Griffin
And you know, like in the White House statement, they're like, they, they refer to south park as the left, whereas south park has always been known as more of this like, libertarian streak.
- [61:31]
Sagar Enjeti
Right.
- [61:31]
Griffin
Where they kind of like hit both sides over the years. It does seem like. And like, and I, you know, to give. Give the White House some credit. Not that they deserve any, but do it, Griffin.
- [61:42]
Sagar Enjeti
Do it.
- [61:43]
Griffin
I will say, I will steel man their case and say that I do think that south park has evolved to be a little bit more left liberal than sort of snotty libertarian. Both sides are equally bad. They have done big things. Like they have gone back and apologize for Man Bear Pig saying that they actually think climate change is a big problem and they were being too flippant about it.
- [62:08]
Sagar Enjeti
It.
- [62:09]
Griffin
They've. They've done a few other things like that where they're kind of like, you know, up updating the way they talk about these subjects because I think they feel like probably a lot of other independents and libertarians that, well, this, you know, maybe they felt 10, 15 years ago like both sides were equally bad, but when they see this Republican administration in action, they find themselves far closer identifying to the left left than to the right. And I do. So I do think it is, it is fair to say that south park is a little bit more liberal than it used to be.
- [62:43]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, I think that's actually a really good point in many such cases, by the way. And I understand why people have done that because they don't want to have any culpability for what they see with Trump as being so beyond the pale. I get that. I mean, I think a lot of people on the right have a similar thing where they no longer want to give any credence to the idea that, like, the left might have some points here and there, which is where you end up with these like, absurd partisan defenses of every breath that Donald Trump takes. Instead of just kind of calling balls and strikes, even when he does something that is like very non conservative, for example, you get conservatives kind of. This is where the Saddam critique is actually pretty good, breathlessly defending him at every step of the way. So, yeah, I, I understand the argument. Like, you don't want to feel like you have blood on your hands, so to speak, for creating Trump or like fueling Trumpism from their perspective. It's the same thing with people on the right, but it is just like kind of lame. I don't know, Griffin.
- [63:50]
Griffin
So okay, to, to the sort more.
- [63:52]
Sagar Enjeti
Of the critique saga were here. If saga were here, he'd be like, shut the though. He'd be like, you shut up. They are the best that have ever lived.
- [64:03]
Griffin
Oh. Oh, really? Okay.
- [64:05]
Sagar Enjeti
Oh, Saga loves South Park.
- [64:08]
Griffin
Nice.
- [64:09]
Sagar Enjeti
He.
- [64:09]
Griffin
What did he say?
- [64:10]
Sagar Enjeti
He said to us yesterday, he was like, and I think, I think Crystal does too. I, I'm, I'm not positive, but Sagar was like, you don't understand how, how important they were during the Bush administration.
- [64:20]
Griffin
I agree with that. I agree with that. Sagar has a liberal media diet. Sagar is a Harry Potter conservative. Conservative.
- [64:26]
Sagar Enjeti
A Harry Potter conservative. I love that. That's a great.
- [64:29]
Griffin
Yeah, you know, that's like, you know, it's like the. He, he loves media and let's be honest, most media is liberal leaning. Like, I mean, like, you know, there's Yellowstone, I guess there's. I don't know, some more. Like, like, I don't know, is Bosch Republican conservative media? Like, I don't know, like, there's very few conservative directed Blue Bloods, Landman. I mean, they're all from the same thing. Yeah, but, yeah, so there is always been this lack of, of conservative art. I don't know if that's because conservatives thought that, like, doing art was gay or like, not, not a great, like, profession or whatever. Like, I'm not really sure. Well, I, I think it's, I think it's a gay coded, but in a good way. But yeah, I mean, I wanted to go back to like, the, your critique of like the humorous south park because I, I did kind of agree, like, that it was like, okay, so the jokes on Trump are like, he has a micro penis and he's gay for Satan.
- [65:36]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah.
- [65:36]
Griffin
And, and it's like, okay, it's like, it's kind of like an old school way of like, making fun of like a, like a politician or whatever. I don't know if I needed south park to have like a more substantive like, like dismantling of like, ice or anything like that. And in a certain way, it was kind of fun to just kind of go at something more libidinal with Trump because they knew it would, it probably would upset him more. And like, it seemed like a lot of the goal was to just upset him and to kind of scare this media sphere that's afraid of lawsuits that's been paying off Trump and, and very scared of these lawsuits. So I think from sort of a meta comedy narrative perspective, I think it was the funniest way to do it because it really did spit in the face of Paramount and Trump at the same time, which is kind of the best way to be a comedian, to kind of like, give respect to no One in power.
- [66:33]
Sagar Enjeti
Well, this is a. I think, an important point because they obviously, cvs made the decision of. Paramount made a decision to cancel. Cancel its Late show franchise. Storied franchise in, like, the history of American media. And a lot of people saw that. And I don't want to disagree with, for example, Stoller, Matt Stoller, who says, you know, it's all about the merger. They want to, you know, give them a. Grease the skids a little bit, tell the Trump administration they. They got rid of Colbert and it'll help the Paramount Skydance merger. I actually don't disagree that some of that may be happening behind the scenes, that they're using it. It like it's. It is a financial decision. I think clearly it is a financial decision because they're not just getting rid of Colbert and trying to juice the ratings and get more ad revenue. They're getting rid of the entire Late Show. And so. But that could be kind of juicing the. Right. That could be juicing their case. Right. They can use that behind the scenes. Be like, listen, we got rid of Colbert, even if it wasn't really about that. You can. You can sort of toss it in there. Does it hurt? I'm sure, because Trump also put out a long post on True Social about Colbert. After Colbert, I lost the slot to the point we were making about how long the south park statement was. This stuff really does get under his skin. But they do have this merger that the fcc, which is now Brendan Carr, was talking about the View potentially being in trouble. He is reviewing, like, licensing. I think it's. It's mostly posturing because it is true that the government does have. Have a job to make sure that people are using their broadcast licenses, quote, unquote, in the public interest. That has been. I mean, south park is one of the originals that challenged those. You know, back in the day, when Cyrus talking about, you know, the hits that they were taking against the Bush administration, for example, in a wartime period, it was really edgy then to challenge what you could put on cable television, on tv.
- [68:33]
Griffin
Yeah, yeah. We're constantly on the verge of being canceled just for the provocative material they put out.
- [68:39]
Sagar Enjeti
Yeah, right. Which is why when you do it now, and I actually feel very similarly about John Stewart and Stephen Colbert, like, it does lose the edge because we're. They were part of that. Like, that's a testament to their success. Like, they numbed us to the edginess of some of this. But if Paramount thought that you, Nixon, Colbert would help with the merger, that Argument definitely doesn't make sense because they knew the south park shit was about to drop.
- [69:05]
Griffin
No, the thing is south park makes their episodes in four days, so there's no way, there's no way Paramount knew the level of how hard they were about to go with this episode. That was most likely written on Monday and Tuesday.
- [69:17]
Sagar Enjeti
Right, that's true. But they knew south park was coming out during the Trump.
- [69:21]
Griffin
Sure, sure, sure. Yeah, but, but they were like, well, it's not Trump. They like have kind of shifted it off to this other character so it's in safe territory. But Matt and Trey decided to do something far funnier. So overall, on a comedy critique level, on a meta comedy level, I do think it's funny. I think it's funny to shit on not just Trump, but on all these media institutions that are scared of him. But okay, we've got some Donald Trump's approval among Gins.
- [69:45]
Sagar Enjeti
Well, just. Yeah, and let's get to. To Israel in one second. Just wrap.
- [69:51]
Griffin
We want to get to that as well before we go to the second half, just for. Just a little touch on that. For sure.
- [69:55]
Sagar Enjeti
Yep. And let's, let's just wrap on this point though, about the vibes. So Trump was actually above water according to this polling, which is From CBS and YouGov, when he pre. No, yeah, no, when he took office, which is for a Republican president. Shocking. That's, you know, we're talking about 18, 29 year olds. That's crazy for again, a Republican president. He is now so underwater with Gen Z and that happened in six months. So this is being connected in the media, the polling results being connected to the Epstein scandal. Morning Consult has polling on this too. They put Trump's approval rating at an all time low with Gen Z 71% disapproving of his job. Only 28% in the CBS poll approve of him and 24% in the morning Consult poll approve of him. And again, that is a hell of a decline from when he was, I mean, he was barely above water. This chart's really helpful. But you can see here, here, this is the YouGov CBS numbers. There's a point where he's at 55% with Gen Z. 55 approval with Gen Z, that is now at 28% and just 45 disapproval with Gen Z, that's now at 72%. That is a really, I mean, that is a really, really sharp change. That's. You don't see that often in political polling where something changes so dramatically so quickly. And the right was using Those numbers at the time to say this is a new chapter, this is a vibe shift. This is Trump doing the unthinkable for the culture and for the right. But Griffin, that has actually all crumbled really, really quickly. And the vibes are, I mean the vibes are the. We talk a lot about Gen Z votes on economics and all of that, but I think this is a pretty clear indication that, that Trump is not making the argument successfully. If, if he thinks it's true that he's delivered on his promises. He's not making that argument at all.
- [72:01]
Griffin
Yeah, I mean for, just, for me, like to me it just reads as, you know, these, these people, these Gen Z conservatives, they seem to be a lot more reachable if you're trying to convince them of a more left liberal perspective.
- [72:13]
Sagar Enjeti
Like, because they're not conservative, right?
- [72:15]
Griffin
Well, yeah, they're not conservative. It's based on vibes. They're not, they're not, they're majority not driven by, by like a religious faith. They're not driven by like a neocon view of the world. And Trump hasn't made the economy like much better for them to notice in their own lives they can't still afford a house, grocery prices, I mean I'm told they're going down. They still seem really expensive to me personally. So yeah, it doesn't seem like there is much for them to get excited about out. And you know the, like I was at 4th of July with some MAGA patriots. I did a little MAGA 4th of July and Venice Beach. Listen, they're out there.
- [72:59]
Sagar Enjeti
Oh no, no. California is a MAGA hub. Absolutely.
- [73:03]
Griffin
And you know, they were just low energy, kind of depressed about the whole thing and just being like, ah, just kind of feeling like they got burned on Iran, on Israel. They even told me, you know, that they hated watching these ice videos of, of, of some mom getting taken away. Like that wasn't what they were expecting. So I don't know, just to say that these people are movable, these people are not like a monolith that is going to go along with everything. I don't know what that means for Trump's term, if that affects the midterms truly or not. Because, you know, at the end of the day you cannot like Trump, Trump. But then you see whatever the next Kamala Harris is and you don't like that either. So everyone has to kind of make the devil's choice there. Do we want to get to Israel before we jet over to the second half?
- [73:48]
Sagar Enjeti
Yep. I was going to say that's the point. You can, you can hype. You had a lot of disillusioned lefties. Either stay home or vote for Trump because he seemed like the lesser of two evils. Actually, even on the Gaza question, not a lot, not everyone, but enough to swing probably a Michigan. So the lesser of two evils has always benefited that that calculation has always benefited Donald Trump.
- [74:12]
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- [76:44]
Sagar Enjeti
Griffin we are now awaiting really a response from the Trump administration that is matching the tone of the public and even some people on the right who are increasingly sounding the alarm about the famine in Gaza.
- [77:02]
Griffin
Yeah, I mean it's, it's, it has been a 24 hours for sure on the topic where people from all over that, from the pro Zionist crowd are starting to what I would say it's kind of COVID your ass time where all of a sudden people are putting out statements on the record saying, oh, actually we don't like the starvation policy here. And it's really alarming because we're seeing people like Barry Weiss, people from the Free Press and stuff like that make statements which really to me is a sign that we are at a very dark point potentially really a point of no return with this siege and starvation.
- [77:45]
Sagar Enjeti
So let's, I'm, I'm gonna share this right now. Here's the Free Press. Barry Weiss, the Price of Flower shows the growing Hunger Crisis in Gaza. Important report she points to that was in the Free Press just yesterday. So that was the headline of the story. The price of Flower shows the Hunger Crisis in Gaza a month ago.
- [78:03]
Griffin
Yeah, a month ago.
- [78:05]
Sagar Enjeti
I'm sure if I scroll down, we'll see it in the mentions. Yeah, Griffin, go ahead. This is what you're talking about.
- [78:12]
Griffin
A month ago in the Free Press, there was an article that says the Gaza famine myth less than like 30 days ago. So everyone is kind of trying to get out of this when it's far too late. I mean, we're getting reports right now that I would say there's almost like what there's, the majority of the population is in now state stage five of malnutrition and starvation. And what's so dangerous about that stage is that's kind of the point of no return. That's the point where even if you are given food, even if you are finally given aid, your body will be irrevocably changed and then it's not enough to ever recover from. And we're hearing that a majority of the population is currently me in that stage or nearing that stage.
- [79:04]
Sagar Enjeti
And I was gonna say don't take it from Lefty Griffin. You can take it here from Haviv Retigur of the Free Press. Is this obviously staunch defender of Israel, the Israeli left. Yes. So is. Is. Yeah. This is the Free Press posting Israeli journalist Haviv retik gur after 22 months of false. And he's been on our show, by the way. Ryan booked him and debated him a bit a few months back. After 22 months of false or misleading reports in Western media, Gaza is now actually approaching cash catastrop levels of hunger. We are very close to real, actual desperate hunger in Gaza. It's hard to convince Israelis of that because literally everything said to them for 22 months on this topic has been a fiction. We need to wake them up. Here's a little bit from the major news reports about hunger over the last 22 months has been wrong, sometimes mistaken.
- [79:53]
Griffin
Sometimes brazen and ridiculous lying.
- [79:56]
Sagar Enjeti
And when you hear a report about hunger in God plaza, always wait 48 hours. Just pin it, stick it in your bookmarks, in your browser, or print it out and put it on your desk and come back to it 48 hours later and check if it's still true, because most will turn out not to have been true. So, Griffin, what we're getting from that is basically it's the media's fault, it's the left's fault for crying wolf. Right. And what's I think, important about that is, as somebody on the right, one of the lines that you've heard over and over again from the Israeli right and the American right, that basically takes talking points from the Israeli right or defers to the Israeli right over and over again. Is that okay? So if people are hungry in Gaza, why aren't they dying of starvation in droves? And it's because people were on the cusp. And that's always been the line. People are on the cusp of starvation and death and you need to get food in. Now, what's happened, correct me if I'm wrong on this, Griffin, over the last week or so, more than a week, is that it stopped. It actually stopped people. That's what everybody was warning about to the point that he's making there. Those warnings were insufficient. Now the food is not getting in, and now people are dying.
- [81:16]
Griffin
Yeah, starvation deaths are in the hundreds now. You know, we were seeing starvations over the last six to eight months, typically with children that were. That had health conditioners and things like that. But now we're seeing people without health conditions starving to death. We're seeing Pictures of, of children that are just bones, babies that have trash bags for diapers because there's nothing left, and they're just skin and bones. And I think what frustrates me so much about Haviv and these free press and all these people coming in super late and saying, oh, well, it's been so tough to talk about this sub egg because, you know, everyone's been crying wolf for. For two years saying they're starving. But that's not how starvation works. You don't wait till people are actually falling over and dying of starvation. To prevent a starvation, you have to do it in the early stages or it becomes impossible to stop. It becomes this large snowball. And we've got right here pulled up, up an experience from a few kids. These are teenagers that were abducted from the Gaza humanitarian sites and were tortured. You know, but this person is saying, if you can't read, if you're just listening on the podcast, is, you know, a group of children. I believe that he. This man right here, this child is like 14 or 15. There were people as young as like 10, 11, 12 with him. Them. They were at one of these sites looking for aid. They were taken by Israeli forces and held and tortured. They were talked about being beat for hours with batons. They would play loud music in their cells so loud that they couldn't think. They were forced to kneel for 24 hours at a time. They were in rooms that were so hot they couldn't even breathe. And there were even reports of id, idf, throwing stun grenades into the cells, Just tossing grenades into these cells to torture them. And so imagine if you are someone who hasn't eaten in two or three days, and you make this trek through this long, dangerous path, waiting for food desperately. People are being shot around you. And then instead of getting any food, food, you're kidnapped and tortured for weeks. I mean, I don't know how anyone physically could survive something like that. Now here we've got. Yeah, go for it, Emily.
- [83:49]
Sagar Enjeti
Well, yeah, no, I was saying the momentum on this is shifting. Now, Amy Klobuchar is obviously not a Republican, but she is somebody who just a couple of weeks ago was in that photo op with Benjamin Netanyahu, wasn't she? Griffin? I got.
- [84:02]
Griffin
I got that, too. Yeah.
- [84:04]
Sagar Enjeti
Here you have her. This is a quote from her yesterday. Let me play a little bit of. Of it. As one pediatric doctor, the leader of the ward at Nasser Hospital in southern Gaza said, there is no one in Gaza now outside the scope of famine, not even myself.
- [84:24]
Griffin
This is the pediatrician.
- [84:27]
Sagar Enjeti
So Klobuchar goes on to say, acute malnutrition. Malnutrition is rising. Hundreds of Palestinians have been killed in, in recent weeks while seeking food, most in the vicinity of Gaza humanitarian foundation distribution sites and others on the railroad routes of aid convoys. This is simply unacceptable. And Griffin, actually, the implication of what Hav Rattegur and Amy Klobuchar are doing here is that they were wrong. I mean, I'm sure Haviv. I mean, Haviv has actually been talking about this a little bit longer than some other people, if you were listening closely. But I mean, before saying that everything else was disinformation, which he's. He's saying now, of course, there's. There's some disinformation, there's some misinformation, of course, because this is political, and that's what happens.
- [85:15]
Griffin
And guess what? There's no reporters allowed in. There'd be a lot more of the information type if they actually let reporters in. But we're forced, we're forced to just hear from underground reports from journalists in Gaza and whatever horror show videos we get on the side of the ghf.
- [85:32]
Sagar Enjeti
But I do think that this is an implication that people were wrong to say this is your. Are you are anti Semitic or you are slandering Israel if you're saying that they would do this because that was actually part of the defense, right? That Israel is a Western civilized democracy that does not treat civilians this way. And that is what, you know, the. I feel like that's actually been a sort of cornerstone of the defense. And if you now said, say, but that's why, Griffin, then I, I was hoping that you could explain some of this to the audience because you follow this so closely. That's why now the, the, the line is basically, hey, it's the U.N. ryan has a good report up on this and job site.
- [86:21]
Griffin
So, so, yeah, Ryan did a great job with this one. So basically now they're saying, oh, it's like, not us. Israel's like, not the people who have been enacting a siege for months where no aid has gotten in. It's not us doing it. It's actually the UN that are starving the Gazans. And essentially, through Ryan's reporting here, what they find is that the reason why the UN isn't bringing trucks in anymore is because every time they bring a truck in, their truck gets shot at by the Gaza humanitarian forces that, you know, we're seeing reports of, you know, 80 people dead, 90 people dead, 110 people dead every single day. And so what's happening is UN truck workers are bringing trucks in through these crossing points and then they're getting lit up. They're sitting targets. They know every day people right outside their truck are being shot. So their lives are like being put directly in the line. And they literally are. The UN is expected right now to put their workers in a, in front of a firing squad essentially. And so that is why the UN has slowed stuff. I mean nothing has been more destructive in the last three months than this Gaza Humanitarian foundation thing. I mean it's been a explicit, I mean just kind of out and out open, just killing field. And you know, these people like Barry, like Aviv, like all the other Hezbollah and the Democrats too, like Klobuchar, who are all saying this now when honestly it's too late for a lot of these people. A lot of these people are going to starve to death in the next couple of days. And even getting food might not be enough to save them at this stage of malnutrition. They, these people all smeared UNRA smeared all the other aid mechanisms that were getting food into here that were doing it because they have processes that actually work. But guess what happened unres Hamas or the world Central Kitchen is just going to get their cars triple tapped by IDF drone strikes. So, and all of that was actually okay. And blood libel to report on according to these voices from before. It was anti Semitic to report on this stuff before.
- [88:48]
Sagar Enjeti
Well, and yeah, so let's take a look. This is a point that's actually being made sort of implicitly here by Barack Ravid of Texios who says Israel will now allow Arab countries to resume the air drops of food into Gaza. This is a step that hasn't happened for many months. It happened last year when the humanitarian situation was extremely dire. Now here's the, the key line and this is just new reporting this morning. He says at the same time Israeli officials continue to claim there is no starvation in Gaza.
- [89:20]
Griffin
Yeah, and I just, just, you know, obviously Israel is what seemingly in not just a PR but a cultural sort of death spiral with this stuff. I mean, and I guess I would just have to say to anyone who is still not pro Israel is a really big umbrella. But people who, if you care about Israel, if you care about Jewish people all around the world being safe and, and, and, and if you care about the, this rise of anti Semitism sentiments, then moments like this are making Jewish people around the world incredibly less safe and making this future of the state of Israel greatly in question because you can't starve hundreds of thousands of people to death and not have it backlash and come back to you. So this, these messages from, from these people, people who helped and allowed and created cover for Israel to create the situation, they're just trying to cover their asses right now. But for, you know, normal people, non commentators, people that really care about this, that care about Jewish safety, this has to stop. This has to stop now. Or you're putting just the future of you and other Jewish people, like, in a great danger. Danger. And, and I just think that it's really, It's. It's really, really scary. And it has, it has to stop. But there just seems to be no line other than, well, we're gonna get some food in and then we're gonna keep bombing them again. It's like, we can't bomb kids on an empty stomach. We can bomb them on a full stomach, which was the de facto position before the siege that started three or four months ago. It was like, well, we're feeding them, but we're still gonna keep bombing them every single day. The bombs have continued, the food is gone, and it's. It's hell on earth, and it stains Israel and it stains the US and it's made the whole world unsafe because the sanctity of life itself is at risk. The, The. The idea that we care about human life and that human life is precious and matters, all of that is being thrown out the window. And that makes not just Jewish people, but every. Everyone unsafe.
- [91:35]
Sagar Enjeti
Well, to your point about Israel, it punctures what Israel sees as its. I think it zaps the credibility of Israel's claim to being a important bedrock of Western civilization in the Middle east, which is used to convince Western allies, including the United States, heavily, the United States, that they are the bulwark against, you know, all kinds of awful, inhumane, barbarous behavior in the Middle East. This is something that really, if that's an important kind of founding myth to the nation of Israel, and it's an important part of the politics of the foreign policy, the credibility of that is it's not at risk. It's gone when you see this happening.
- [92:28]
Griffin
Yeah. And it's been two years of horror shows show, but we are at a new low. And I just think that people need to protest, get back out into the streets and let any, you know, and hold anyone that had anything to do with this in American politics accountable and essentially, you know, just make sure this never can happen again to anyone else. Like actually really never again.
- [92:53]
Sagar Enjeti
So yeah, so I was going to say, Griffin, we have some more political updates on this. So France recognizing Palestinian state and the ceasefire talks basically ending and I think we should move to the paywall section of the show, second half of the show and where we'll we'll cover that. We will then inject some levity to the best we possibly can into everyone's weekend with some reactions to longer south park clips. And then we have a clip of Joe Rogan talking about Hunter Biden that you are definitely not going to want to miss because it's interesting in all kinds of different ways. So again, to to see the rest of the episode, details on the ceasefire and then of course rug on Hunter Biden. Go ahead, head over to breakingpoint.com get a premium subscription and we'll see you over there.
- [93:42]
Krystal Ball
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