← Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
7/29/25: Trump Denies Epstein Island Visit, Epstein 'Wonderful Secret' With Trump Revealed, Israel Bans Gaza Destruction Filming
01:08:25
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- [00:00]
Krystal Ball
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:06]
Sagar Enjeti
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- [01:35]
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- [02:05]
Charlie Kirk
Hey guys, Sagar and Krystal here.
- [02:07]
Krystal Ball
Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.
- [02:14]
Charlie Kirk
This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.
- [02:20]
Krystal Ball
So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad, free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.
- [02:31]
Charlie Kirk
We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you@breaking points.com Good morning everybody, happy Tuesday. Have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have?
- [02:42]
Krystal Ball
First off, should be an interesting one. So we've got a bunch of Trump comments. He now says that there are Epstein files, but some of them are made up. So we'll break down the very latest there. He's also admitting that there is starvation in Gaza. This comes as new reporting indicates that he and the administration are backing a full scale ethnic cleansing plan that the Israelis are effectuating in the Gaza Strip. So I'll break all of that down for you. Meanwhile, Charlie Kirk with a big propaganda piece denying that any kids are actually starving to death in the Gaza Strip. We're going to take a look at that. And also he recently hosted a focus group of young conservatives and their views on Israel and Palestine, which was pretty interesting. So I want to take a look at that as well. We've got a new tariff deal announced with the eu. We're going to take a look at that and what it means and what it doesn't mean. So sort of some of the like fact from fiction kind of a situation. And Senator Alyssa Slotkin reached out to us and wanted to come on the show. So we're gonna have her on today for a wide ranging conversation. Should be an interesting one. I certainly have some questions for her about Gaza. And you've got some questions about Epstein. We got a lot we wanna get to there.
- [03:48]
Charlie Kirk
She's a former CIA officer so you know, we can certainly ask her a lot. By the way, that is a reminder, thank you all so much to our premium subscribers. You guys enable our show to be able to do stuff like that. There's a lot of logistics and other things involved whenever you wanna interview, like a budding politician here in Washington, arranging everything. And all of that really is thanks to the platform that you guys enable. So breakingpoints.com if you're able to help us out. We got monthly and yearly subscriptions. Obviously there's a lot of benefits as well. But before we get to now with all of that said, let's get to Jeffrey Epstein and some new Trump comments. It's just not going away. His new latest excuse is that he never went to the island. He actually says, I never, quote, had the privilege of going to the island.
- [04:27]
Krystal Ball
Oh my God.
- [04:28]
Charlie Kirk
That's what he said. Said I never had the privilege of going to the island. And that actually some of the files themselves, some are, but the parts that show him are actually fake. Let's take a listen.
- [04:38]
Donald Trump
I never went to the island. And Bill Clinton went there supposedly 28 times. I never went to the island. But Larry Summers, I hear, went there. He was the head of Harvard and many other people that are very big people, nobody ever talks about them. I never had the privilege of going to his island and I did turn it down. But a lot of people in Palm beach were invited to his island. The whole thing was a fake. They can put things in the file that are fake, but those files were run by bad, sick people. If they had anything, why didn't they use it when I was killing Joe and that he gave out? Because he was 25 points down.
- [05:20]
Charlie Kirk
Files were run by bad sick people. They were controlled by the Biden administration. That is the new line you will remember, though. I mean, this is part of the thing where, look, even from the FBI, they don't concede that the, quote, Epstein files were ever in a consolidated place. They only were consolidated after Trump came into office and the review was ordered and they compiled these hundred thousand SO documents, again according to their own narrative, that were screened, reviewed by the Trump administration. It was only at that time that they started flagging Trump's name. In fact, it may never have been an effort previously to flag Trump's name or anybody's name, as obvious from the Ghislaine Maxwell stuff where the DOJ never had an interview with her and asked her about third party connections. So the first actual effort by the US Government to assemble everything in one place and actually look for anything, or the very least flag some stuff was under the first Trump admin or second Trump administration today, more recently, where he had hundreds of FBI agents, again by the FBI's own admission, actually compile a lot of these files. And now presumably many of the leaks that are coming out against Donald Trump are by people who were there and helped compile those documents. Very likely they never even looked at them in the past until very recently. And so now, apparently that's the con job. But listen, I mean, it continues to remain mystifying. And as he can see, it's not going away. It's been weeks now of the Epstein scandal. He's sitting there in the uk, in Scotland, still answering all of these different questions. Where they try this whole Ghislaine Maxwell thing, we'll see. Pardon increasingly looks more likely, unfortunately, which is insane. But beyond that, you're also watching how the current effort, all of the obfuscation, is still not quelling a lot of the public interest. And so he just keeps walking into these things of I never had the privilege of going to the island. It's Crazy. It's just crazy the way that he's talking about the issue.
- [07:06]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, I mean, it's hard to keep track of all the different positions he's taken on these files at this point. I mean, first it was we're going to release the files and then they were releasing the files. The whole, you know, binder, Epstein Binder Phase 1 or whatever it said with their influencers and their photo shoot. Then you had the Epstein client list is on my desk from Pam Bondi and we're reviewing hundreds of thousands of hours of footage and that's why it's taking so long. Then you get the memo, oh, he killed himself. Nothing to see here. Case closed, we're moving on in a two page memo and there is no incriminating client list. Then you get there is a client list, but I'm not on it. Then you get there is a client list. I may be on it, but it's because it was fake. I mean, it's just incredible. But it's also amazing because the general public interest will continue. As we covered yesterday, the sort of more independent or bro comedy podcast fear, I think continues to be skeptical and feel betrayed over all of this. But I think the MAGA base is largely gonna be satisfied with the idea that like, it's a hoax, this is fake, it's a witch hunt. You know, it's a setup by crooked Hillary or Comey or Brennan or whatever. Like the MAGA influencers have now gone along with this and I think they're basically buying it. So the idea early on when he started saying these things about like, Obama wrote the files and we're like, this is insane. Like, who's gonna buy this? Well, now they've bought it.
- [08:30]
Charlie Kirk
They bought it.
- [08:31]
Krystal Ball
Okay.
- [08:32]
Charlie Kirk
You know, there's 70 some percent of the rest of the country is like.
- [08:35]
Krystal Ball
I'm so sure about that. Yeah. I actually saw a poll from YouGov that a majority of Americans believe that he's not releasing the files because he's in the files, which is like, I mean, very obvious and very logical.
- [08:48]
Charlie Kirk
And now at this point, by the way, this is my personal favorite video about Trump and Epstein. So for years, the line from Trump and Epstein, according to the White House, is that Trump ended his relationship with Epstein because he was a creep. Trump now says the reason that he ended his relationship with Epstein had nothing to do with that and it was because Jeffrey Epstein had hired away somebody who had previously worked for Donald Trump. Take a listen.
- [09:09]
Donald Trump
For years, I wouldn't talk to Jeffrey Epstein. I wouldn't talk because he did something that was inappropriate. He hired help. And I said, don't ever do that again. He stole people that work for me. I said, don't ever do that again. He did it again and I threw him out of the place. Persona non grata. I threw him out and that was it.
- [09:31]
Charlie Kirk
Persona non grata for the daring to hire away.
- [09:34]
Krystal Ball
Some of that's what was inappropriate about what Jeffrey Epstein was doing.
- [09:39]
Charlie Kirk
Take the man's word for it, right? Like, that's how he recalls in terms of his relationship. What's also, again, like, let's return literally on the record, statements from Steven Chung, who is the White House. I think he's the communications director or the strategic communications director, one of those things. And he was like, look, he ended his relationship with Epstein because he was a creep. This was the line for years. Is that after he was convicted or actually even before he was convicted? I think it was 2005. That's what they say. Right around then. That's when his relationship with Epstein ended. By the way, our own Emily Jashinsky notes that, you know, Virginia Giuffre, one of the Epstein victims, was what was lured away from Mar A Lago. Like, is that what he's referencing?
- [10:15]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, she was working.
- [10:16]
Charlie Kirk
I think she was. Yeah, that's right. She was a lower level employee. I don't even know if Trump was necessarily aware of it, but just saying, I mean, you can see I like there is a track record, I guess, but it's like, is that what made you upset about this? Like, what's going on here?
- [10:29]
Krystal Ball
The other thing that Michael Wolfe claims is that the real falling out was over a real estate transaction. And his claim is actually that it was Epstein that broke off the relationship with Trump. Because I think this is how the story goes. There was some piece of property that in Palm beach that Jeffrey Epstein was interested in. He had. Trump wanted Trump to come and take a look at it as he's considering bidding on it. Trump comes and takes a look and then he outbids, goes around Jeffrey's back, outbids him, gets that property. It ends up being. Remember that one there's a controversy about? Then he sold it for like a wildly inflated value. Some Russian oligarch or whatever. He got tied up in the Russiagate stuff. It was that piece of property. And that was what caused the rift in their relationship is according at least to Michael Wolfe, who spent a lot of time with Jeffrey Epstein because he was contemplating writing a biography of Epstein. So it was in the context of all of those conversations, and I believe I've heard the Trump people also reference, I mean, their go to was to try to make it like he was hitting on the underage daughters of club members, basically, and that's why we broke it off. But they've also referenced this real estate transaction. So that seems to be part and parcel here as well. But again, if you believe Michael Wolf, he says that actually it was Jeffrey Epstein that ended this relationship because he was disgusted with the way that Trump behaved in the conversation context of this real estate deal.
- [11:56]
Charlie Kirk
I mean, who knows, you know, but it's like regardless, I think we can pretty much say what is that it's not to do, at least, you know, according to Donald Trump. Now, in this particular case, with the original explanation that was offered by the White House, by the way, we have some major movement on the Ghislaine Maxwell front. Can we put that up there please, on the screen? I'm gonna read this. There's a new Ghislaine Maxwell reply brief that was just filed with the U.S. supreme Court. They say, quote, no one is above the law, not even the Southern District of New York. Our government made a deal and it must honor. The United States cannot promise immunity with one hand in Florida and prosecute with the other in New York. President Trump built his legacy in part on the power of a deal. And surely he would agree. When the United States gives it word, it must stand by it. We are appealing not only to the Supreme Court, but to the President himself to recognize how profoundly unjust it is to scapegoat Ghislaine Maxwell for Epstein's crimes, especially when the government promised that she would not be prosecuted. So this is what I've been trying to explain to people. This all comes back to Ghislaine Maxwell's legal defense. She's not claiming innocence per se, at least at the appellate level. What she's saying is in 2007, you guys made the sweetheart corrupt deal with Alex Acosta in Florida to Jeffrey Epstein and all of his co conspirators. Ghislaine Maxwell is listed under those unindicted co conspirators. As a result, she cannot then be prosecuted in the future. Now let's explain though, what happened with that whole non prosecution agreement. It was signed in 2007. Well, in 2018, after the Epstein victims fight for justice in the court, they're able to get a US District judge to throw out the non prosecution agreement. Why? Cuz the non prosecution agreement violated the federal rights of victims. There's I forget. I think it's like the Crime Victims act, which was passed by Congress, requires the feds to inform the victims who are named in the indictment of the eventual prosecution agreement. Let's remember this, they don't even need approval. Like if you're a victim, you can't say I approve or disapprove. They just need to be notified of the deal.
- [14:03]
Krystal Ball
Which they were not.
- [14:03]
Charlie Kirk
Which they were not. The feds, like gun, like absolutely dead to rights, violated their rights under that federal piece of legislation that leads to the eventual reopening of the investigation and indictment of Epstein in 2019. But remember, that is a very different indictment than the original indictment that was prepared against Epstein and Maxwell and all of his unindicted co conspirators from 2000, I think it's 2008. The Fed, that indictment, by the way, has never seen the light of day. Nobody even really knows what's in there. Now, according to many of the people who'd worked on it, they had him dead to rights on multiple like sex trafficking, crossing state line charges, be able to spend the rest of his life in prison. That is where the big question mark of why, why did this allow it to happen now, you know, let's give the innocent explanation. Tracy's been on here, he's offered it before. I don't think it holds weight, but I'll still give it. That explanation is that Epstein is filthy rich and hires to. There's Dershowitz, Ken Starr, all these other people, they make federalism arguments. It's during the Bush administration. So Kenneth Starr, for people who are too young to remember, was the whatever independent counsel or whatever who prosecute, not prosecute, went after Bill Clinton compiled the Lewinsky report. So he was a household name in the 1990s. Well, he then obviously is a lot of cachet in Republican politics. He is hired by Jeffrey Epstein as long as Alec Dershowitz, who just came off OJ Verdict. They fly down to Florida, they negotiate this agreement and it basically comes down to his wealth and his influences to why he's able to get this. There's a lot of things that don't add up about it. Not just him being rich, the fact they didn't inform the victims. We have, of course, the intelligence question from Acosta in the disputed quote now a quote, I was told he belonged to intelligence, but broadly it makes sense, as I have laid out in multiple cases now, why when somebody is of great use to the US Government, that especially in an intelligence way, or perhaps other intelligence agencies Many intelligence agencies across the world, including, I believe, the Israeli government, well, then that the government comes in and protects that person to make sure that they either stay quiet or they continue their operations for all of the different things that they know. I think this is an incredibly reasonable case and takeaway for that 2007 prosecution agreement. But what the Ghislaine Maxwell people are saying is that not only is their current conviction corrupt, because it violates that 2007 agreement, basically saying that still should remain in good standing, the one that violated the federal rights of the actual Epstein victims, but second, now is bargaining for a pardon under Donald Trump. And this is where the question of corrupt deals and all of that really comes into play. Because how can anybody have confidence that Maxwell is not gonna tell Trump exactly what he wants to hear when he is the only person in the United States government who has the authority and the ability to give her a full pardon and release her? And remember, he refuses to rule all of it out. He continues to say, I am allowed to do it. And it's not like protecting executive purview or whatever. He emphasizes that for a point of a potential deal, there's an easy way out of this. It's called a special prosecutor or somebody who doesn't have, who's independently non controlled by the executive. They should have the ability to actually ask Maxwell questions, not the Deputy Attorney General, but sit down for an actual investigate, whatever, like a interview without any sort of potential quid pro quo. But the current quid pro quo is so obvious in the way that we're all looking at it right now. And I think that is the danger. So I know this is kind of complicated, but it is really important to, like, look at the background of how we got here, how it fits with Trump and his relationship, and why there are a hundred thousand files currently sitting unreleased by the Department of Justice.
- [17:47]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, yeah, that's right. And I mean, I think what's going on with Ghislaine Maxwell? I mean, first of all, it's worth noting her lawyer was the type who would go on cable news and defend Trump during his many legal troubles. So, you know, she's got a guy who has made appeals to him via cable news before and is sort of, like, seen as being on the right. The conservative, not the correct, but the right side of the spectrum. But, I mean, I think it's pretty obvious what's going on here. I actually suspect that the leaks, the Wall Street Journal, may have come directly from Ghislaine and her camp as, like, a warning Shot at Trump. That's when, I mean, the timeline makes sense, right? You get the birthday letter comes out and then you get, okay, my God, we gotta meet with this lady, right? Todd Blanche takes the meeting. I mean, we showed you yesterday the images of her leaving that meeting, reentering prison with whatever box of files. And I think that there were two things that she was proffering there in her, I think, don't they call it like Queen for a day where you don't have to. Where she's given this limited immunity, where nothing she can be said in that context can be used in a prosecution against her. But in any case, I think there were two things that were happening there. Number one, she was saying, okay, I have all this evidence about these people that you hate, you know, Democrats, Bill Gates, whoever it is, he mentioned, I think Larry Summers, Trump did this morning, yesterday in the clip we showed this morning. And so there's that and then the other pieces. And here's what I got on your guy, because they're making a calculation, cuz they know if they pardon her, they're gonna get a lot of backlash for that. It's gonna be, oh my God, you're pardoning this like monster sex trafficker criminal, which she is. She's a absolute disgusting human being and deserves rot in prison for the rest of her life. No one should be in any doubt about that whatsoever. She is not a victim. Yes, there are other people who should be in prison alongside of her. She is not a victim. Don't let Newsmax facts confuse you about what's going on here. But she's showing them, okay, well this is what I've got on your guy. And they're deciding, okay, is this damaging enough to take the hit for pardoning her and make sure that none of this ultimately comes out? I suspect that's what's really going on here with these meetings and the consideration of whether or not to pardon her. They're weighing what is like the lesser evil here for them, for their political context. Is it, is it worse to have whatever she's got come out about Trump and what kind of documentation does she have? Is it just her word versus his word, which she probably feels pretty good about, being just able to assert his dominance and deny, deny, deny, or does she have something that is more credible that she could release that would be incredibly damaging for him, and is it worse? Is that worse, whatever she's got, than the political hit of offering her the pardon? Or another potential option here, since they're appealing to the Supreme Court is the Trump DOJ could just back off of their position and not fight her at the Supreme Court and basically allow her appeal of her conviction to go through and say it turns out this deal that was cut in Florida does apply to her and does apply to this situation and she gets off scot free.
- [20:39]
Charlie Kirk
It's absolutely crazy. It's one of those where the developments on this are so vital, so important. And yes, you are correct in the beginning about Maggo, but that's not everybody, okay? And there's a lot of people. Again, the White House wrote the vibe of the Internet to great success I think in 2024. And now they've retreated to the bastions of safety where just giving interviews to friendly journalists or really Newsmax, whatever, Fox News and all the others basically acting like they did in the original first term because they're buckling down and they refuse to actually be challenged on this issue. And as you can see from Trump's own statement, there's a lot of contradicting, you know, stuff that is out there.
- [21:26]
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- [22:26]
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- [23:27]
Charlie Kirk
Which leads us here to Michael Wolff. I guess before we play this, let's give the caveat on Michael Wolfe. Okay, He's. How would you describe him? A fabulous. I think that's probably the best way. I'll steal that.
- [23:38]
Krystal Ball
He's had a lot of action.
- [23:39]
Charlie Kirk
Michael Tracy, he is somebody who simultaneously is incredibly connected, knows the entire New York elite, written books about Rupert Murdoch, worked at Vanity Fair. One of the most. Honestly, he kind of reminds me of Epstein. Like, he's one of those people who's just everywhere at all times, seems to know everybody. Had this incredible access to the first Trump administration.
- [24:00]
Krystal Ball
Still has sources inside the Trump administration. Wrote like four different books about Trump.
- [24:04]
Charlie Kirk
Yeah, he wrote. I mean, the most famous book is Fire and Fury, where, you know, it came under a lot of journalists because he did basically admit to, like making up a lot of quotes and everything was like deep background. It's very Bob Woodward esque in terms of describing a scene based upon reassembling others, but stating it as fact. So I have a lot of quibble about that. And he shouldn't 100% take anything that the guy says to the bank. But I will also say he does know a lot, right? He knows a lot of these people. He knows all of the society. Epstein, he spent a ton of time with Epstein, with Bannon, with, I mean, the entire White House. Listen, before he was Persona non grata in the White House, it was like a joke amongst the White House press corps about how much access Michael Wolff had. He was rolling in and around.
- [24:48]
Krystal Ball
He was just like hanging out in the White House every day. Just.
- [24:51]
Charlie Kirk
People understand that's crazy. That never happens. I was there. I literally watched a lot of this happen. It was open, you know, in terms of the amount of access that Michael Wolf had, it was unprecedented. It was part of the original chaos. And he eventually writes the Fire and Fury book, makes millions of dollars and some massive bestseller. But the point is, is that, yes, I understand he's a sketchy figure. So always take some of that with a grain of Salt. But of course, he does have his sources, and at least on this topic, he spent a lot of time with these people. Here is what Michael Wolff says is the real falling out between or is the real, quote, wonderful secret between Trump and Epstein laid out here. Let's take a listen.
- [25:29]
Krystal Ball
The birthday letter that Donald Trump apparently wrote for Jeffrey Epstein's 50th birthday and this idea that they share a wonderful secret. What do you think he's referring to?
- [25:42]
Charlie Kirk
I think that he is referring to the girlfriend that they shared at that point in time. 92, 93. So there was a woman, and as.
- [25:57]
Announcer
Far as I know, she's not underage.
- [26:00]
Charlie Kirk
But who they literally shared, who literally went back and forth between these two guys.
- [26:08]
Krystal Ball
And she went back and forth in the same bed with the two of them. Was it a threesome or she was dating both of them separately?
- [26:17]
Charlie Kirk
I don't know the mechanics. I know that during the same period, they openly. This wasn't hidden from either one. They openly shared this particular.
- [26:34]
Krystal Ball
Woman that.
- [26:35]
Charlie Kirk
She went out with both of them at the same time. Okay, so that is Wolf's explanation. I mean, honestly, it kind of makes sense because this is documented that they did have the same girlfriend, you know, basically around the same time, right before he had. Before he started dating Melania Trump. It's literally right in that same time frame.
- [26:54]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. It also does sort of. It does sort of fit with like, the almost, like, romantic nature of that letter.
- [27:00]
Charlie Kirk
Yes, I agree totally.
- [27:00]
Krystal Ball
You know, like, if they're sharing a girlfriend, you are, like, sort of by proxy in this, like, weird romantic triangle with him. So it does kind of make sense. And. And he says there that this woman, as far as we know, is, like, of age. So it's not about her being.
- [27:13]
Charlie Kirk
I think she was 20. Right.
- [27:14]
Krystal Ball
Underage. I don't know exactly. That's what he said. Young, but of age. But it also just stems like, this is a close relationship between Trump and Epstein. This isn't someone that you see occasionally at a cocktail party. You happen to be mixing in some of the same circles occasionally. No, this is your buddy. That is as close a friendship as one can possibly imagine. I guess we could say.
- [27:40]
Charlie Kirk
Yeah, I guess. I mean, I said this on the show yesterday. I mean, you know, I'm 33, been around with my friends and all that stuff. If somebody ever asked me to write them a birthday letter, like, that's not what's going in the birthday letter.
- [27:53]
Krystal Ball
Can I just say that?
- [27:54]
Charlie Kirk
And that's the part where I find really creepy.
- [27:57]
Krystal Ball
So creepy. And okay, this is a side note, but I feel like once you get to a certain age, making a big deal over your own birthday is so narcissistic and weird. It's such a. A fricking red flag, too. It's weird, right? I don't know. I'm very opposed to people over the age of, like, 21 making a big deal.
- [28:15]
Charlie Kirk
25 is.
- [28:17]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. Everyone giving 25 then.
- [28:19]
Charlie Kirk
Because now you can rent a car. It's over. You're officially an adult.
- [28:21]
Krystal Ball
Right. It's like, okay, time passed. Another year. We're supposed to all celebrate you, like, every. I don't know. Thank you.
- [28:28]
Charlie Kirk
I'm with you. I've never understood it. It's like, you know, this weird birthday, premature.
- [28:32]
Krystal Ball
I feel like it's a rich person thing to, oh, I'm gonna have a big party for my 50th birthday. It's like, I don't know. I actually.
- [28:37]
Charlie Kirk
I'm not so sure. I've always thought that it's a way for people to, quote, feel special in their lives, which is kind of sad. But this is a much deeper psychological conversation for birthday obsession. In the west, in most of the rest of the world, they were like, yeah, congratulations, happy birthday, whatever. All right, so let's get then to a video that we also wanted to underscore here about Ghislaine Maxwell. One of these women is Annie Farmer. She was interviewed by ABC News. We just want to underscore, you know, the role that Ghislaine Maxwell actually played in this entire scheme and kind of fits more broadly, you know, with all of this stuff around Trump and Epstein and about potentially if a pardon does happen, kind of what we are all obscuring here. Let's take a listen.
- [29:21]
Krystal Ball
She didn't just procure girls and women for Epstein, but she herself participated in their abuse. I think that's an important thing for people to understand. And so. And then she also, you know, made threats. She made threats to my sister, to our family, when it was clear that my sister had reported her. And so I think that to be told that suddenly she's being brought to the table as a potential source of information when she's previously been charged with perjury by the government is very confusing and unsettling.
- [29:54]
Charlie Kirk
It's important to listen to her. By the way, I did receive a very long message from Michael Tracy yesterday about Ghislaine Maxwell and our accusation of race. So, I mean, listen, I'll give the guy his credit. Here's what he said. He says Maxwell is not Accused of rape in criminal trial, much less convicted of it. Two of the former claimed sexual activity with Epstein was not illegal per the very prosecution judge instructions to the jurors, and even claimed the sexual acts in which Maxwell was alleged to have participated in no way rose to the level of anything that could be reasonably described as rape. I guess what I think we were trying to say is that she participated, according to the victims here, in the actual scheme of which she was eventually then convicted.
- [30:37]
Krystal Ball
Well, and as Annie Farmer there, I mean, these two women, Annie and her older sister Maria, just their allegations are that Maria's a painter. She graduates from some school in New York where Jeffrey Epstein is a big benefactor. And in fact, she. At their final show, there's a. You know, there's a big art show as, like, part of the graduation and. And buyers come in and her painting sold. And then, according to her, the head of the school comes over and is like, you're not selling to them. You're selling to this guy, Jeffrey Epstein, even though it was for a lower price. And then that is her entree to this world where they begin. Oh, we're gonna make your dreams come true. And we're gonna fly you here and we're gonna support you in your work, etc. And then they fly her out to Lex Wexner's estate in Ohio. And that's where she alleges that both. Both Jeffrey and Ghislaine molested her. She freaks out. She, you know, basically hides, runs away, hides, flies home. And then she is the first one to file a report with the police and ultimately the FBI. Her sister. And I can't remember exactly the timeline here, but at some point, Jeffrey and Ghislaine had said, oh, you have a younger sister.
- [31:48]
Charlie Kirk
Yeah, that's right.
- [31:48]
Krystal Ball
Can we meet her? Can you bring her to dinner as well? And that's Annie. And Annie, at the time, I believe, was like, 16. And so they have dinner with Annie, and then they do the same thing with her. Oh, we're gonna make your dreams come true. We're gonna fly you here, we're gonna send you to this incredible school, I believe in Spain, and you're gonna get to do all the things that you desire. And then she also is abused, sexually abused. I'm not sure if she was abused both by Jeffrey and Ghislaine, but I know Maria Farmer claims that she was. And there are other victims as well, who have similar stories where the first time that they are molested by Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine is there, involved Also directly in the abuse. And we know, of course, that her whole thing was she would go and she would find these girls often who came from troubled backgrounds already victims of abuse, like Virginia Giuffre or their family life was a mess, they were impoverished, they had all these sorts of. Of vulnerabilities that she would then exploit. And she created this, you know, this conveyor belt of young underage girls for Jeffrey Epstein to abuse and exploit and potentially traffic. So that's, you know, that's what has been alleged against Ghislaine Maxwell. And I just think it's really important, as this propaganda effort goes forward, to paint her like she was some sort of a victim and like, why is she even in prison if she, you know, if there are no, no other men that she was trafficking girls to, et cetera, like, this person deserves to be in prison. And in fact, the allegations that were made against her in court, Michael Tracy is correct that they didn't make a lot of these allegations against her in court. They just did enough to get a conviction and get her put away. And they did not actually air all of the different allegations. Not to mention, I'm sure over that number of years, some of this would be, of course, she said, she said, and difficult. This is 25, 30 years ago. But in any case, that is, he is true that they took this very narrow approach, but that is not even close to the entirety of the allegations which have been made against her. That. And again, I think another thing to keep in mind when you are considering the credibility of these allegations, multiple of these girls, now women, have told a very similar story about how they were brought in and how they were groomed by her and the way the abuse unfolded, which I think lends them credibility to their claims.
- [34:23]
Charlie Kirk
I totally agree. I mean, it's obvious. And yeah, I mean, as this all goes forward, everyone needs to pay very, very, very close attention because, look, you know, it almost again behooves me to lay out who is Ghislaine Maxwell, the daughter of Robert Maxwell, the known Mossad asset, one of the richest men in the world at that time, multi billionaire in the uk dies under suspicious circumstances. All of these insane connections to all of these sketchy arms deals across the world, including having associated with Epstein, with Donald Trump, with all of the world's richest and most powerful. That's literally how they met guys like, she is, in my opinion, one of the major keys to the story. And so the fact, again, just to say that she was never interviewed by the Department of Justice. Justice until today about third party individuals is patently crazy and backs up everybody who said in 2019 that that entire prosecution was a sham effort to try and actually was much more of a cover up limited hangout. You know, since we're all using the Watergate pollen's parlance now. More today and yeah, more all. Anybody who questioned this is more vindicated today than ever before.
- [35:35]
Krystal Ball
Yep.
- [35:36]
Charlie Kirk
All right, let's get to Israel.
- [35:37]
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Charlie Kirk
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- [37:03]
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Charlie Kirk
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- [37:40]
Krystal Ball
So we have a bunch of updates coming out of Israel from this administration and directly out of the Gaza Structure Strip. So let's start with this there's been a big Israeli hasbara propaganda effort here and in Israel to deny that there is actually any starvation in the Gaza Strip. But apparently President Trump and J.D. vance did not get that message, did not get that memo yesterday, Trump acknowledging that the there is starvation that is unfolding. J.D. vance doing the same. Let's take a look. President Vietnam who said there's no starvation in Gaza. Do you agree with that assessment?
- [38:13]
Donald Trump
I don't know. I mean and based on television, I would say not particularly because those children look very hungry. So we have to get rid of those lines. But we're going to be getting some good strong food. We can save a lot of people. I mean some of those kids are. That's real starvation stuff. I see it. And you can't fake that.
- [38:32]
Announcer
You've got some really, really heartbreaking cases. You've got little kids who are clearly starving to death. Israel's got to do more to let that.
- [38:41]
Krystal Ball
So he says you can't fake that. The will be news to Charlie Kirk and others that we'll show you later on in the show. But lest you think that there's something heroic that's about to unfold here, let's go and put this next element up on the screen. So within Israel, the idea that Netanyahu is going to let any aid in to Gaza in order to appease what is now a widespread international outcry over these horrific images of the Israeli and for forced famine leading to babies literally starving to death. So there is a huge right wing outcry over the idea that any aid would be let in. So what is Netanyahu doing to appease people like Ben GVIR and Smotrich who have been very loud about their upset over this and we played you some of that in the show yesterday. Well, he's gonna propose to go ahead and annex parts of Gaza in an attempt, they say here in Haaretz, an Israeli newspaper, to appease far right minister if Hamas does not agree to a deal. Let me read you a little bit of this because this also comes back back to the US Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is expected to propose to the Political Security Cabinet a plan to annex areas in the Gaza Strip in an attempt to keep Finance Minister Basili O. Smotrich in his government. According to the plan, Israel will declare that it is giving Hamas a few days to agree to a cease fire and if not, we'll begin annexing areas of the strip. Of course they're going to make it so that it's not any sort of a deal Hamas would ever agree to. The move will be presented to cabinet members following Netanyahu's decision to increase humanitarian aid entering the struggle strip, which was accepted despite opposition from the Religious Zionism Party. According to the plan Netanyahu is expected to present, Aries in the buffer zone will be annexed first, followed by areas in the northern strip. The process will continue gradually and according to details present at. Let me finish that sentence. Actually, the process will continue gradually until the entire Gaza Strip is annexed. Full ethnic cleansing, guys, and conquest here. According to details presented by Netanyahu in talks with Minister the plan has received approval from the Trump administration. Now of course, this should not come as any surprise since Trump himself floated the annexation and the quote, unquote, cleansing of the Gaza Strip and the repopulation by quote, unquote world's people. So this is very much in line with Trump's plan for Gaza lago that he put on the table. And now this is what the Bezalel Smotrich is being offered in exchange for allowing, allowing some amount of aid into the Gaza Strip, which by the way, we have yet to see really, actually reach the people who are starving there at this point. So let me go ahead and put these next images up on the screen and I'll get Sager to react to all of this. This is the state of affairs. I mean this is as eight convoys come in, they are just absolutely swarmed. There are also reports that the family based like there are people who have been put in place to protect these trucks as they come in. So you don't have these scenes of desperate people just grabbing whatever they possibly can. There are reports from inside of the Gaza Strip that the IDF have been firing on those protection squads. So mayhem and chaos. I mean society is breaking down there like people are starving to death. And they have reached a point of utter and complete desperation, which is what you see sabre in those sorts of clips.
- [41:55]
Charlie Kirk
I mean it's obviously horrific. And it also just gets to the question of what we continue to try to highlight here from inside of the Israeli government, given the acknowledgement, or they didn't acknowledge starvation, but at the very least they paused and allowed all of these humanitarian aid trucks, or at least some humanitarian aid trucks to enter into the strip has now caused such consternation that the only acceptable solution is to officially annex some 90% of the entire place and then to facilitate migration. Again, I'm not making this stuff up. They say it out loud. You have Ben GVIR and others who said it yesterday. You know, we should be sending shells, not food. They're outraged that they used the Sabbath against him. You know, to be able to circumvent this decision. And similarly inside of the country, the way that they're keeping their political coalition together is to actually go in the most extreme direction. I will say at the, I don't, you know, it's just crumbs. But in Israel, this does seem to be some sort of political breaking point. Yair Lapid, who is the opposition leader, actually has to said Netanyahu's plan for Gaza has completely failed and we need to have a ceasefire. So there is some element of the political coalition going. I don't want to understate it. They still support the war, they still broadly support annexation and all of that. They're more upset about the fact that the hostages are not being released. And the way that this is kind of being sold is the way that they will get the hostages is that we'll have full on annexation which will allow for full occupation. It's kind of ridiculous because they already have full occupation. They've already razed the entire place to the ground. If they get them from military solution, then they would have done it already. That's not really the point. This again, look, does anybody say that they've held back in Gaza by trying to get back. Come on, the whole place is gone. Be serious. Yeah, it's gone. Do we have the video about how journalists are not allowed to even film the overhead?
- [43:50]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, we do. And before we play that, just to back up your point, Ben GVIR just said he called for a complete halt to humanitarian aid, complete occupation of the strip, total annihilation of Hamas, encouragement of immigration. That's code for ethnic cleansing and settlement. This is not the alternative path. This is the royal road to safely releasing the hostages and achieving victory in the war. Mr. Prime Minister, give the order. These are not fringe characters. These are some of the most influential people, frankly in Israeli society at this point. As you can see from Netanyahu's own own decision making to Sager's point. Yes. Journalists, this is a report from Sky News, I believe, where they're saying, hey, the Israelis are telling us that as we're covering, they're dropping now some aid from the sky, as was done before, injuring people, and again setting off this mad chaotic scramble for people to get whatever scraps they possibly can. Journalists are being told who are covering the aid drops. You can't film from the air or they'll stop the A drops because they don't want you to know how destroyed all of Gaza ultimately is. Let's go ahead and take a listen to that report. We were given quite a clear and strict preflight briefing that the Israelis have said we're not allowed to film any shots of Gaza from the air and that if we do, these airdrop flights could either be canceled or delayed. International journalists haven't been allowed access to Gaza since the war started. Started despite immense pressure and growing demands. And it seems they don't want us to show you images of Gaza from the air either. I mean, this is classic. They will deny that there's starvation. They'll deny that they're. That the IDF is shooting starving Palestinians as they're going to try to collect aid from the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. They deny, deny, deny. But journalists are never actually allowed in to assess what is really going on and even to the extent of, you know, going so far as to ban them from filming from the air so that people cannot see the extent of devastation. Of course, we all see it anyway because of the brave Palestinians on the ground who've been sharing with the world the images of this ongoing genocide. The starvation crisis is as dire as it could possibly be. The Havana Post talked to an American doctor who I think just returned from Gaza, or they may have spoken with them in Gaza, put this up on the screen, and what they're saying is that for some of these children, quote, they may have already passed the point of no return where their physiology has eroded to the point where even refeeding could potentially cause death itself. The gut lining has started to auto digest. It will no longer have adequate absorptive capacity for water or for nutrition. Death is unfortunately imminent for probably thousands of children. So we have already reached a point where some of these kids, even if they open the floodgates, which, let's be clear, they have not done, but even if they open the floodgates and baby formula and food and nutrition and medicine and everything they need comes in, there will still be children who continue to die from starvation because of how far their bodies have been pushed to this point. And it takes a long time to get here. This is the level of engineered deprivation that we're talking about. And Adam Tooze wrote an important piece about, you know, you always get this accusation, oh, well, why there are starving people in other places in the world, why you only focus on the Gaza Strip, like, is it because you're anti Semitic? Is basically the allegation that comes along with this. And he said it's true. There are horrific leaders many other Places in the world, most of them in sub Saharan Africa where you have famines, where you have people who are starving, where you have, you know, horrific numbers of people. There are two things that are different. Number one is in all of those instances, the hunger and the famine is a result of a poly crisis though. A war, civil war in Haiti, the complete breakdown of society, those sorts of things. In the Gaza Strip it is completely man made. There is plenty of food and resources there. It just needs to be allowed in. This is a 100% engineered by US and by the Israelis. Famine, man made. And that is as you guys know, crime against humanity and also is considered an act of genocide. In addition, in those other places, if you look at the percent of people who are experiencing some level of hunger, who are on the, you know, they have like ratings for the level of famine that they're at. Somewhere around, you know, it'll be 49% or 60%. I mean again, these are horrifying numbers. I'm not downplaying this whatsoever. In Gaza it's 100%. It's 100% of people within the Gaza Strip who are suffering from some level of hunger. And there are varying levels of severity. You know, in terms of obviously the most vulnerable are going to be infants, people with various diseases and disorders, it's going to be children, it's going to be the elderly. But 100% of people within the Gaza Strip are suffering from some level of hunger, some level of famine. And that does not exist anywhere else in the world. And again speaks to the fact that this is an engineered, completely man made famine that we're dealing with. Which is why it has led to such incredible horror here and around the world where even some of the worst actors you can imagine, like Barry Weiss feel the need to say something about, or Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama feel the need to say something, something about it. At the same time we continue to get horrific reports of violence in the west bank and really awful violent news here. We can put this up on the screen. So a well known activist who was involved in the no Other Land development, of the no Other Land documentary, was murdered by the psycho that you see here. This violent Israeli settled, who is known, who is. There's pictures of him hanging out with government ministers by the way. And here he is just wildly firing a weapon. This is the kind of psycho this guy is. One of the few things that the Biden administration actually did to check any, you know, of the Israeli atrocities was to sanction a few settlers. This guy was one of them who was sanctioned. Not that it really made a difference, but at least there was some symbolic of lays, some symbol of like, this isn't acceptable the way this guy operates. And the Trump administration removed those sanctions from him. And as I was saying before, I don't want to give anybody the impression that this is some rogue actor. These people are encouraged and backed by the state. This is part of official policy. And so Palestinian murdered here by this violent settler. And it's important, even though we focus a lot on Gaza as understandably that's where the greatest amount of horror ultimately is. We're going to have a guest on soon to talk about what's going on in the west bank because that's where you can really see the complete picture of what they're doing here. The level of violence that has escalated, the land seizures and theft that have escalated as well is all part of this Greater Israel project and this ongoing complete genocide.
- [50:58]
Charlie Kirk
Well, it's not just west bank because it's West Bank, Gaza, Lebanon, Syria. This is the, I mean, look, it's a Bantustan, call it what it is. You have two tier systems of justice and it's pretty obvious there's no way in which they have any genuine security or system in through which they can pursue any basic level of law and order. I've actually been that way for quite some time, but it's especially that way now in the last two years. Last part here, which is interesting. I'm curious what you think. Let's put it up there on the screen. The Israeli Information center for Human Rights, Bet Selim has said that there's quote, genocide in Gaza, Gaza being committed by Israel. You know, this is one where they're more what I guess I would say, you know, lagging because they are an Israeli organization in terms of their declaration compared to a lot of other people who have like similar sympathies. But it is nonetheless like demonstrates, you know, the extent to which I think the conversation has moved where you even have this human rights organization inside of Israel which is saying this. And of course, I'm actually very curious to see how the Israeli government handles this because remember, they're calling that a blood libel and this is an Israeli organization itself. They have always, let's contextualize them. They've always been, you know, kind of on the extreme left of Israeli society. And for Israeli, yeah, I'm saying for Israel they've always been that way. People always said they're like, oh, there's some useful idiot or whatever that's been the accusation I've seen thrown at them for quite some time. But it is significant nonetheless, at least in their own society. And also, again, the real question is how the government's gonna handle this and what they're gonna pull up.
- [52:35]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, I mean, they're incredibly late to this, obviously. Betsellam and Physicians for Human Rights, both of which are significant Israeli human rights organizations. It reminds me of B'Tselem, not that long ago, finally issued a report. This is a few years back at this point. I think we covered it here about saying, okay, yes, Israel is an apartheid society. It's accurate to say that. And again, they were late to that. But it was given added significance because they are an Israeli organization. And I saw the New York Times covering this, et cetera. But I think it's like the consensus is clear at this point. You have B'tsellam, you've got Physicians for Human Rights. They join Amnesty International, Doctors Without Borders, Human rights watch over 800 scholars of genocide. At least you had an Israeli scholar writing in the New York Times, Dr. Omer Bartov, saying, hey, yes, I'm a genocide scholar. I know it when I see it. You just can't. There are very few voices on the other side. There is basically a global consensus at this point what's going on. And Sagar, I don't know if you saw, actually Marjorie Taylor Greene.
- [53:39]
Charlie Kirk
I saw.
- [53:39]
Krystal Ball
Yes, I saw. Said for the first time, this is a genocide. So her getting ahead of the vast majority of Democrats, including, by the way, Bernie Sanders, commanders in calling this for what it is. But I think it's significant. Like I said, it's hard for me to really understand what took so long. I read through their report yesterday, and it's quite well documented. They go through many of the same path and trajectory that the original ICJ filing from South Africa went through of. Like, here's the historic context, right? Palestinians are a demographic threat to a quote, unquote, Jewish state, state. And so it's not just Hamas that's their enemy. It's every Palestinian that threatens a Jewish majority. And that creates a logic and a context under which this genocide has unfolded. Then you've got all of the many statements. I mean, I've long ago lost track of all of the genocidal, dehumanizing statements about Palestinians and the media and propaganda efforts that unfold within Israeli society to make it okay and make it seem like Palestinians are. Are not a people, that they're not human, that they are, you know, an existential. Even the infant babies who are being starved to death are some sort of an existential threat to Israeli society. And then of course, they also cover the acts themselves. The starvation, the forced displacement of every single Palestinian has been displaced at this point within the Gaza Strip. The forced displacement, the mass starvation, the indiscriminate bombing, the destruction of all just sort of like culture and life. You know, any arts institutions, any universities, any schools, the farmland, the greenhouses, et cetera. And when you look at all of that, I think it's impossible not to conclude, if you're being honest at this point, that this is in fact a genocide.
- [55:26]
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- [56:24]
Charlie Kirk
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- [56:50]
Announcer
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- [56:53]
Charlie Kirk
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- [56:55]
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- [57:26]
Charlie Kirk
All right should we get to Charlie?
- [57:28]
Krystal Ball
Let's talk about it. So I mentioned earlier that there is this propaganda effort, you referenced it on the show yesterday, to deny that any starvation is actually happening in the Gaza Strip. That this is all just, you know, some media propaganda. I love how they imagine that the media is on the side of the Palestinians, which is so like utterly.
- [57:47]
Charlie Kirk
Oh, the Israelis actually really believe.
- [57:48]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, I know they do. It's insane. Like the number of former IDF that work at these outlets is like, okay, you guys are like completely out to lunch. But in any case, Charlie Kirk went right along with this and invited this guy on to spin this utterly false narrative about how of course there's no hunger in the Gaza Strip and these are all lies that are being fed to you. Let's go ahead and take a listen to a little bit of that.
- [58:12]
Announcer
I hate being lied to and I hate being propagandized. And this weekend there was an all out propaganda campaign trying to make it seem as if Israel is intentionally starving the people of Gaza.
- [58:28]
Charlie Kirk
I'm not going to get into the weeds of the numbers, but the quantities of food that been brought into the Gaza Strip since the beginning of the war and month over month is enough to feed the Gaza Strip according to the World Food Program's numbers for what it takes to feed people for longer than this war has gone on for about 27 months worth of food. And there's plenty of food getting into the Gaza Strip.
- [58:50]
Announcer
This is pure visual warfare. Plug A309. This is all this is, this is propaganda. Gaza, emotional visual, optical warfare. Optical warfare. And so no one likes to see what you're looking at here. Looks like a kid who's starving to death. Right. So the whole story says this, the story says young, old and sick starve to death in Gaza. That is the front page of the New York Times. And so the picture they're using is of Muhammad Al Matawak, a child with a muscular disorder border, and they're using that as the face of famine in Gaza. So is the UN intentionally allowing the kids of Gaza to starve? What is going on here?
- [59:33]
Charlie Kirk
When you talk about the UN in, in Gaza, you're not talking about the people sitting in the United nations in New York. The UN in Gaza is Hamas, the UN is Hamas.
- [59:45]
Krystal Ball
And you know, he makes all the fully debunked claims about, oh, Hamas is stealing all the aid. And that's why we had to use the Gaza Humanitarian foundation, which Israeli military officials told the New York Times is not true. There has never been any evidence of this whatsoever. In fact, what there has been evidence of is Israeli backed thugs who have been stealing aid. There's evidence of that. There is no evidence that Hamas has been consistently in any way stealing this aid. But that's their excuse. And we also know that Israel buried a thousand trucks. This was reported on Israeli news channel. We covered yesterday. Buried 1,000 trucks of a aid. And you can see, I mean it's just like they think you're so stupid, they think you can't hit translate from Hebrew. They are out there, Ben GVIR and Smochettz are out there furious that any aid is getting in whatsoever. And lo and behold, when Netanyahu snaps his fingers, oh, suddenly some aid can get in. So, oh, but it was the UN that was the problem. Give me a break. It's just such utter and complete bullshit. In fact, when the UN did come in to try to deliver some aid, they were shot at by, by the idf. So it's disgusting. I mean, and we all know, remember.
- [60:53]
Charlie Kirk
Jose Andres in the World Central Kitchen.
- [60:55]
Krystal Ball
Of course, yeah. And we all know too that people are being massacred when they do go and try to get aid from these four or five distribution centers that the Gaza Humanitarian foundation has set up. This Green Beret whistleblower, he told the story of how he became so disgusted and disillusioned he decided to speak out. He, a young child, a young Palestinian child kissed his hands because he was so grateful for whatever food he'd been able to get at this distribution. And then as he walked away, the Israelis shot and killed him. That's what we're talking about here. And these monsters have the gall to come on and say, oh well, if it's a kid who has muscular dystrophy, he doesn't really count as starving to death. As if those people don't also matter. And obviously the people who are going to be, be the most vulnerable are going to be children who have other complicating conditions. There's no doubt about that. But the numbers are at least 147 people have now died from starvation and the majority of those are children.
- [61:56]
Charlie Kirk
Look, Charlie recently had me on. He has occasionally, I think, some decent ideas and other things. At the very least he let me express my criticism of Israel. So I appreciate that. But I do think what everybody is watching here is kind of the dichotomy of conservative politics, specifically when money is involved. So here we have Turning Point usa. I don't think it's a secret and I'm giving anything away to say that there are a lot of, you know, very pro Israeli people who have donated to the organization. And Charlie himself is not somebody like us. He's not a media figure. He can't say what he wants. He's a political actor. He's operating in the Republican coalition. And these are the types of things that are occasionally, I'm not gonna say they were demanded. I don't think anybody controlled him but they obviously felt the need to have to have somebody on here and let's, you know, kind of break it down. Who is this person? He's a columnist at the Jerusalem Post. So it's like, do we have maybe any incentive to be saying the types of things here? An Israeli rabbi who lives in his or who writes for the Jerusalem Post. Instead you could actually look at the Rupert Murdoch owned Wall Street Journal as Trump been reminding us. And they have a graphic out this morning which shows the exact food delivery and the fraction through which it has fallen now under. That's you know, a lot of the data and stuff that they're citing about amount of food and necessary is actually before the complete blockade that happened very recently which started in March. Right. So this is where facts and all of these things matter. But I actually think a big reason why this is all happening is to prevent the Marjorie Taylor Greene's and a lot of other younger Republicans from, from you know, basically coming out full on against Israel. And this really was showed off I think in Charlie's focus group which he held recently at his TPUSA conference where he was asking young tp. So remember, this is a different breed. These are not just young Republicans, these are like young activists, like activists in tpusa. That's a special type of, by the way, that's a special type of any young person who's an activist or whatever. Right. So like the highest engaged political person of any type of political organization. Well here he sat down with them and asked them about Israel. And also kind of the first thing that you think of when you hear the country's name. Let's take a listen.
- [64:11]
Announcer
And if you seek to actually understand what Gen Z thinks about Israel, not these anonymous TikTok comments or not what you see on X, these are real people, they're real conservatives, many of which are real Christians and they'll tell you exactly what they think about the hottest issue happening I guess on the planet that we're talking about. What's the first word that comes to mind when you hear Israel?
- [64:32]
Charlie Kirk
Judaism. Aid.
- [64:33]
Announcer
Aid.
- [64:33]
Krystal Ball
Netanyahu.
- [64:34]
Announcer
Tax dollars. Liability.
- [64:36]
Charlie Kirk
Sacred Tax dollars. Conflict.
- [64:38]
Announcer
Complex, controversial, scary, strategic.
- [64:41]
Charlie Kirk
Mossad.
- [64:41]
Announcer
So Mossad. Of all the different things that would come to mind, why does their intelligence service come to mind?
- [64:48]
Charlie Kirk
Reminds me of the CIA. You know, it has the CIA. You have the CIA involved with rfk.
- [64:54]
Announcer
I mean, there's rumors going around maybe Mossad was a part of the Epstein files, if maybe Mossad was a part of things that. That we don't know about.
- [65:01]
Charlie Kirk
And they're just like the Central Intelligence Agency. They are out there doing things that none of us know about.
- [65:08]
Announcer
So to say Mossad first, that would basically imply your first impression is one of doubt. Is that fair to say? Yes. Okay. When you hear, like, Epstein. Right. Do you connect the Epstein issue initially, like, immediately? Like, first connection in your mind that's also connected to Mossad and Israel or they feel separate in your mind? I think. I think there's a growing consensus that there's a connection there among Gen Z. Yeah, I think that's definitely gaining velocity.
- [65:34]
Charlie Kirk
So keep in mind that was filmed a couple of weeks, like a week or two ago, right?
- [65:39]
Krystal Ball
Yeah.
- [65:40]
Charlie Kirk
This was when the Tucker thing and they still. What was the number one kind of thing you heard there? Aid. Mossad. Liability. Interesting.
- [65:47]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. And I don't think they mean aid in a positive.
- [65:49]
Charlie Kirk
I was gonna say they're not talking about aid in a way that. That you may want. Not in the rabbi, whatever that guy's name is. It's in the way that we're talking about here. So clearly this is penetrating the propaganda. The spooky propaganda is getting through. And actually that really, I think, came through in this next one. Let's take a listen.
- [66:08]
Announcer
Who used the word aid? You did. Why did that come to mind? First, it's very similar to our support for Ukraine.
- [66:16]
Charlie Kirk
We're sending a lot of money over there. Not really getting, in my opinion, a huge return on investment. And so that's like the first thing that comes to mind, because when people talk about their distrust or dis. Support for Israel, that's the first thing that usually comes up, is all the money that we're sending them.
- [66:33]
Announcer
I think we have a lot bigger issues at home. I think we should be spending most of our tax dollars on securing our border, keeping our home people safe. When you talk about return on investment, I think that's an interesting way to frame it. The supporters of Israel will say they're doing a lot of America's dirty work from intelligence gathering, things like that within the Middle East. Is that compelling to you? Are you persuaded by that argument?
- [66:57]
Charlie Kirk
The reason why I'm not super persuaded is especially it's mostly because of here recently. We were kind of drug into it. We were negotiating, we were having negotiations and then they struck. They killed the people we were negotiating with. And it kind of derailed everything and sped up the conflict a little bit.
- [67:15]
Announcer
It was the State Department's stated goal that we were working on negotiations with Iran. You can say they wouldn't have panned out. You can say that maybe they were imminently about to collapse, but we were still in active negotiation. And yet Israel launches Operation Rising lion to go in and strike Iran while we are mid negotiation. How many of you guys would say you think Israel got us into that conflict?
- [67:43]
Charlie Kirk
Conflict?
- [67:44]
Announcer
You would say yes. You would not say so much.
- [67:47]
Krystal Ball
I think we were willing to join that conflict. I don't think we were pulled in unwantingly, as if we were dragged by a leash, you know, in more uncertain terms. I think we have the authority and to say of whether or not we want to be involved in that conflict. And I think we saw the prosperity that we would unleash if we joined the conflict.
- [68:03]
Charlie Kirk
The amount over since 1948, it amounts to 319 billion adjusted to inflation. And I'd say that I can think.
- [68:10]
Announcer
Of multiple things that we could have spent at home that would have been.
- [68:13]
Charlie Kirk
A better allocation of our taxpayer dollars.
- [68:16]
Announcer
And I feel like this money could have been well spent in supporting an economy that would support our generation being able to afford homes rather than military strikes for Israel.
- [68:25]
Charlie Kirk
So there you go.
- [68:26]
Krystal Ball
Shout out to that dude for knowing that number.
- [68:27]
Charlie Kirk
Yeah, I actually didn't even know the inflation.
- [68:30]
Krystal Ball
Yeah. How many members of Congress do you think who are voting for that money? Right. I would have that number.
- [68:34]
Charlie Kirk
I would add to chatgpt it to get a inflation adjusted number. That's insane. 390 billion adjusted for inflation. That's outrageous. Actually, that's almost exactly what was spent on the Afghanistan war over 20 years. Just to put it into context, this.
- [68:46]
Krystal Ball
Is Israel's greatest nightmare. I mean, these people are the reason why Netanyahu was like, let me go on with Rogan or the Nelk boys or do something here because they see they have an issue. Because previously if you said like back when I was running for Congress in 2010, if you talk to a Republican about like foreign aid, they're thinking about like some, you know, liberal do gooder like in, you know, in Africa, fake feeding starving children or whatever. Now they're thinking about that. Sure. But they're thinking like, why are we giving all this money to These people, whereas previously they sort of got a path of like, Charlie's assistant there, whoever that guy is. No disrespect, I just genuinely don't know who he is. He says the Israeli line of like, well, they would say, we're doing your dirty work. So this is a great. This is a great return on investment. Like, you're getting all this peace and security from the only democracy in the Middle east on the sheep. And consensus among all of these young conservative activists is like, no, we actually. We don't think that that value proposition works out whatsoever.
- [69:44]
Charlie Kirk
And the Christian part is key as well. Only one of them said sacred, so you can see that, that boomer evangelism, that Ted Cruz. Only one of them there is like, sacred land. And we have to support the country of Israel because the Bible commands us to. That's not what I'm hearing from the rest of these people. And that actually fits with the AIPAC line in particular, which is the next part here about AIPAC and kind of its special treatment. Let's take a listen there. The entirety of the idea of a PAC is to represent a group, but the fact that we're having. We're allowing a group that doesn't even represent American interests to influence the people who are supposed to be representing us, I have a huge problem with.
- [70:21]
Announcer
But when you hear that lots of other countries also are lobbying, do you think. I mean, that you probably don't know the names of those countries, but it's happening. Does that upset you equally? Or is AIPAC just get all the press? Because it's so top of mind if.
- [70:37]
Charlie Kirk
Those other ones are doing the same thing. Of course. Yeah. See, and that's. Look, no offense again to that guy, but there's a little bit of a struggle session element to this. Oh, absolutely, right.
- [70:47]
Krystal Ball
Him and Charlie both.
- [70:49]
Charlie Kirk
And I sympathize. I get where the. Listen, the amount of. I mean, people need to understand the pressure that they're putting on these types of people is unbelievable. Like, it's not just money, it's blowing up your phone, your whole social circle. Their nightmare is even having this being aired just so people understand, like, the fact that this, in my opinion, like, pretty mild criticism of Israel and military action even gets airtime or that Tucker gets to question dual citizenship or whatever on the state. You gotta understand the level of freakout and pressure that happened. I mean, I'm sure you saw Laura Loomer and others being like, any Jewish person who donated to Charlie needs to rescind their. You know, I mean, this is a genuine existential threat. It's also a view into kind of how the machine works. And so that's what people need. That's why I think that content, that clip paired with this, this all makes a lot of sense in terms of, of the level of pressure right now that's happening. I mean, I'm sure you also saw Ross Douthat at the New York Times. He wrote that piece how Israel's war became. I mean that's a free. The freakout over that within the right is crazy. Even right now over at National Review and the level of attacks that are coming to anybody who's questioned open support for Israel against like my friends over at the American Conservative, which are a restraint based organization. Same thing. Anti Semitism, blood libel. Tucker, the. The front page of the. Of National Review magazine is an entire article where yours truly is also quoted and named about Tucker's dark turn against Jews and anti Semitism. Like, just so people understand like what this. Listen, I mean, I don't care anymore. But like that has currency in this town. Just so people understand it will make you unemployable and unworkable in a lot of environments on, you know, uninvited to many different things. That's what's happening. And that's just leading to this and not to mention actually really getting down.
- [72:44]
Krystal Ball
Yeah, well, and that's why it's important that we understand what actual independent media is, that there aren't some random billionaires with various ideological interests that you're existentially dependent on in order to continue making content or doing your activism or whatever it is. Those things really matter. Because Charlie is like, if you watch through this focus group, he is, is sort of tortured. He goes along like, does a lot and has his guy there to sort of toe the Israeli line. Like yeah, but it's a good return on investment and only democracy and to make sure that it stays within bounds that's not gonna completely nuke his enterprise. There is one last clip we can show you from this having to do with anti Semitism. Let's go ahead and take a listen to that.
- [73:29]
Announcer
There is a rise of Jew hate, but it's not the majority move. I think the majority mover of Gen Z and Gen Z conservatives is exhaustion.
- [73:37]
Charlie Kirk
Precisely.
- [73:38]
Announcer
Would you guys think that's a fair categorization? Again, there is like an isolated, like weirdo, I hate Jews. We don't like that. No one, like no one in, no one in decent society wants that. But instead it's kind of like, can we just, I don't know, make it so I can buy a home or, like, deport people.
- [73:55]
Krystal Ball
Yeah.
- [73:56]
Announcer
Is that. Does that resonate with you?
- [73:59]
Krystal Ball
Exactly.
- [73:59]
Announcer
You're not anti Israel. You don't wish them harm. You know, you're not, you know, like, cheering on Iran.
- [74:04]
Charlie Kirk
No, I support Israel. I think they're our allies.
- [74:06]
Krystal Ball
I want them.
- [74:07]
Announcer
But you would be called an anti Semite by some people for saying this, and I think that's ridiculous. I don't hate Jews because I think a nation should defend themselves.
- [74:15]
Charlie Kirk
Exactly. Like, I think that's the most ridiculous thing ever.
- [74:19]
Announcer
I feel like it's becoming like the word racism. Like, we just disagree with them, so we just have to call them a name. I don't think they're actually anti Semitic. I think people just can't agree with them and they can't prove them wrong. So they just throw a word out and be like, you're anti Semitic because you think that we should stop sending our money there.
- [74:36]
Charlie Kirk
Preach, brother, preach. He's exactly right. There's actually nothing woker than anti Semitism. The anti Semitism industrial complex. All of the hallmarks. All of the hallmarks of anti racism have been dialed up to a hundred for antisemitism under our government. I may have said this before. The current antisemitism task force by the Trump administration is as close the government has ever come to the Department of Anti Racism proposed in Ibrahim Kendi's book, which obviously I oppose. But, you know, obviously we don't have the same level of opposition. You know, Ron DeSantis has got affirmative action with state resources for Jews down in Florida. That's fucking nuts.
- [75:15]
Krystal Ball
RFK Jr HHS. Yeah, no, literally is pursuing the anti Semitism. I mean, the, you know, going. The attacks on the universities, the snatching up of college students, like the. The government censorship is just like, it is crazy.
- [75:29]
Charlie Kirk
Look, I hate the universities, okay? Everybody know, can we all accept that I hate Harvard? All of these, I think they're like actual leeches on the US Government, on our society. I think they're bad not because of their Middle Eastern studies department. And that is the current way that they are what they're currently. The current shakedown on Columbia was you have to pay us $200 million and then we get to install a standards department over specifically your Middle Eastern studies department.
- [75:55]
Announcer
What?
- [75:57]
Charlie Kirk
This is not even a free speech thing.
- [75:58]
Krystal Ball
They're putting a body monitor in at cbs.
- [76:02]
Charlie Kirk
All right? You know, and it's too much. It's all just too much. And, yeah, that's where we are. That's currently where we are right now with the right I hope people wake up. You know, Steve Bannon and a few other they're fighting, but I'm skeptical. He's got a good quote. I'll read it to you after we get off the show.
- [76:34]
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Krystal Ball
Come on. Why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient.
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Charlie Kirk
Still using yesterday's tech upgrade to the.
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Announcer
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Charlie Kirk
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Announcer
The other way around.
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Krystal Ball
Whoa, this thing moves.
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Charlie Kirk
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Charlie Kirk
All on one device.
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Announcer
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- [78:40]
Krystal Ball
This is an Iheart podcast.