7/29/26: Iran Surprise Attack On US As Trump Threatens Retaliation, Lindsey Graham Bibi Plot Against ICC

Summary

Podcast Summary
Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
Episode Date: July 29, 2026
Episode Title: Iran Surprise Attack On US As Trump Threatens Retaliation, Lindsey Graham Bibi Plot Against ICC

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Episode Overview

This episode of Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar is dominated by analysis of a major geopolitical escalation: Iran’s unprecedented missile attack on a US base in Jordan. Trump’s inflammatory promise of retaliation, the unraveling of US-Iran diplomatic efforts, the strategic shifts in the Strait of Hormuz, and the broader electoral and policy impacts of these events are all dissected.
The show also features a timely and revealing interview with Alex Holder, director of a new documentary on Lindsey Graham, offering new behind-the-scenes glimpses into both Graham's legacy and his dealings with Benjamin Netanyahu regarding the International Criminal Court (ICC).

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Key Discussion Points

1. Iran’s Surprise Missile Attack on US Forces in Jordan

Timestamps: 02:07–04:35, 11:33–15:00

• Significance of the Attack:
  • Krystal frames the Iranian strike as notable for being proactive, not a simple “eye for an eye” retaliation.
  • “This is really the first time they have attacked without it being a sort of eye for an eye…so that is a very significant development.” – Krystal (02:07)
• US Official Response:
  • US Central Command (CENTCOM) claims all Iranian missiles were intercepted and no casualties occurred, but regional reports suggest otherwise.
  • “The US has lied about these sorts of things in the past, Emily, so it would not be surprised if some of the missiles did get through…” – Krystal (11:33)
  • Ongoing concerns about munitions shortages within the Pentagon.
• Strategic Context:
  • The attack follows a period of relative calm; Iran’s initiative is interpreted as a sign of increased escalation dominance and leverage.
  • Krystal notes Iran’s hardliners now see no credible US partner after the collapse of prior agreements (MoU).
  • “They are actually taking the initiative and setting the pace themselves.” – Krystal (21:09)

2. Trump’s Rhetoric and the Escalation Dynamic

Timestamps: 05:31–09:59

• Trump’s Reaction:
  • “We are going to beat the effing s*** out of them.” – Trump (reported by Fox News, 05:53)
  • His bombast is viewed as both evidence of potential real escalation and as historically inconsistent – sometimes he talks tough but doesn’t act, sometimes he does.
  • “That is to me a pretty terrifying sign of escalation potentially.” – Sagar (08:07)
• Doubts About Negotiations:
  • Krystal and Sagar point out that Trump’s optimistic talk of negotiations is belied by Iranian actions and statements.
  • Iran’s position: not negotiating directly with Washington, only with Oman, and prepared for further escalation.
  • “They are not interested in negotiations and that any negotiations moving forward would require the US to accept Iranian control over the Strait of Hormuz, something that the US at this point see as unacceptable.” – Krystal (13:06)

3. The Strait of Hormuz & Economic Warfare

Timestamps: 20:01–26:37

• Control of Shipping Routes:
  • All ships forced to use the Iranian-designated route after Trump’s efforts to promote an alternative US-backed corridor fail.
  • “After major escalation…every transiting vessel is using Iran's designated route. None, none are using the US route.” – Sagar (25:37)
  • Impacts global oil markets; oil prices spike, putting further pressure on the US and global economy.
• Iran’s Stance:
  • Deputy Foreign Minister lays out the hard five-point position: no return to pre-war status, willingness to close the Strait, no US talks, military pressure useless, and ending cooperation with nuclear inspectors.
  • “Iran is effectively operating as if it were no longer an NPT member.” – Krystal (21:09)

4. Political and Polling Fallout

Timestamps: 26:37–30:58

• Public Opinion:
  • Despite the war’s unpopularity, a new poll shows Republicans now (barely) outpacing Democrats in trust on Iran policy.
  • “You’d think it would be Democrats by 30 points given how much everybody hates this war…” – Krystal (28:43)
• Democratic Messaging:
  • Democrats criticized for failing to present a clear antiwar opposition. Democratic Socialists gain ground in primaries thanks to unequivocal antiwar platforms.
  • “The public really wants a fierce antiwar resistance. And…if you’re just staying silent…then you’re really missing the boat.” – Krystal (29:48)

5. Lindsey Graham: Legacy, Power, and the Bibi-ICC Plot

Timestamps: 33:06–56:22

• Alex Holder Interview – Graham Documentary:

  • Incredible access over 4.5 years; reveals the late senator’s pivotal role in high-level, behind-the-scenes diplomacy.
  • “He was absolutely working very, very hard. I actually think he found, well, think, as in, there were moments where he was really quite disappointed that his colleagues didn't spend as much time as him on these issues.” – Alex Holder (51:22)

• Graham, Netanyahu, and the ICC:

  • Holder shares clips of Graham actively coordinating with Netanyahu to pressure US senators to back him against potential ICC prosecution.
  • “So that was the subsequent call that he has for the Prime Minister of Israel after essentially calling around various senators to get them to support a letter…against his, at the time, pending arrest warrant.” – Alex Holder (47:53)
  • Netanyahu seeks bipartisan (including Democrat) support; Graham is the conduit, using his relationships on both sides.

• Graham's Methods and Personality:

  • Graham loved TV and publicity, often texting the director and practicing talking points with his team to perfect his appearances.
  • “He absolutely loved it…Every single time he would go on tv, he would send me a text saying, I’m on Meet the Press or I’m on Fox…” – Alex Holder (42:39)
  • His strategy with Trump often involved flattering him in public but wielding subtle, strategic pushback in private (“If you do that, that’s what Obama would do…” – Alex Holder, 46:05).

• Memorable Eulogies:

  • Trump, at Graham’s funeral, calls him “a tough cookie… He never saw war that he didn’t like.” (38:50)
  • Sean Hannity’s eulogy described as “weird” and self-promotional, drawing laughs and eyebrow-raises:
    • “I would argue…he has a heavenly version of Mar a Lago. It may even be a little bigger. He may have a little more gold…” – Hannity (39:40)
  • Graham’s staff described as family, deeply affected by his death.

• Washington Insights:

  • Graham as a bridge between “old” establishment and “new” MAGA GOP, uniquely consequential due to his relationships, stamina, and work ethic.
  • “He was totally wedded to the job. Right. I mean, 24 hours, seven days a week…So in some respects, he was quite a unique person in Washington, D.C.” – Alex Holder (51:22)

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Notable Quotes

• “We are going to beat the effing s*** out of them.” – Donald Trump, relayed by Fox News (05:53)
• “Iran says Hormuz will never return to the pre-war status quo.” – Krystal, quoting Iranian Deputy Foreign Minister (21:09)
• “That is to me a pretty terrifying sign of escalation potentially.” – Sagar (08:07)
• “You’d think it would be Democrats by 30 points given how much everybody hates this war…” – Krystal (28:43)
• “He absolutely loved [being on TV]… He would send me a text saying, I’m on Meet the Press or I’m on Fox…” – Alex Holder on Graham (42:39)
• “[Graham] will move wherever he needs to move to maintain his relevance and to push his agenda.” – Alex Holder (44:39)
• “The amount of influence or the amount of things he could push towards President Trump took place on the golf course.” – Alex Holder (45:09)
• “We have set ourselves back in terms of the stated goals of this war by starting this war—on every single issue we are further away from the stated objectives here.” – Krystal (21:09)

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Timestamps of Key Segments

| Segment | Description | Timestamp | |-----|-------------|-----------| | Iran attack analysis | Significance, escalation, context | 02:07–04:35, 11:33–15:00 | | Trump’s reaction | Rhetoric, negotiation doubts | 05:31–09:59 | | Strait of Hormuz | Oil market, Iranian control | 20:01–26:37 | | US and Saudi strikes | Response, Iraqi militias | 16:07–20:01 | | Public & political fallout | Polls, Dems vs GOP, DSA rise | 26:37–30:58 | | Lindsey Graham doc | Alex Holder interview | 33:06–56:22 | | Graham, Bibi & ICC | Behind the scenes maneuvering | 34:45–48:41 | | Graham funeral eulogies | Trump and Hannity’s speeches | 38:50–40:42 |

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Tone & Style

• Candid, conversational, and analytical, mixing news coverage with real-time emotional and political reactions
• Direct quotes preserve the blunt, unfiltered style typical of Breaking Points
• Constructive criticism offered for both parties; open encouragement for bolder opposition from the Democratic left

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For Listeners Who Missed the Show

This episode provides an unvarnished, deeply informed look at a dangerous new phase in the Iran conflict, the unraveling of US diplomatic ambitions, and the enduring power dynamics inside Washington. The interview with Alex Holder gives rare on-the-ground insight into Lindsey Graham’s final years, his approach to politics and foreign policy, and the personal relationships that continue to shape American policy behind closed doors. The episode is rich in detail, brisk in pace, and unsparing in critique—true to Breaking Points’ mission.

Transcript

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[Crystal Ball]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

Hey guys, Sagar and Krystal here.

[Crystal Ball]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see [e-mail] Good morning. Welcome to Breaking Points. Crystal is in for the one and only Ryan Grimm. So we've replaced Ryan Grimm with the one and only Crystal Ball. It's great to have you.

[Crystal Ball]

Ryan is kind of irreplaceable if we're being honest though.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, there's. He's singular. He's singular. We'll put it that way.

[Crystal Ball]

Is singular. Very true. Lots of big stories to get into, including including some significant developments in Iran. They launched an attack on the U.S. and Jordan. This is really the first time that they have attacked without it being a sort of eye for an eye where they're retaliating situation. So that is a very significant development. We'll dig into that. The filmmaker who followed Lindsey Graham around in the last months of his life is going to join us with some new raw footage and to talk to us about what he was up to in those final days. This comes on the heels of Graham's memorial services yesterday, attended by all sorts of dignitaries and very interesting speeches there. Emily, eulogy from Trump and also from Sean Hannity. You know. Oh yes, explain what you're holding in your hands there, Em.

[Sagar Enjeti]

This is the funeral program and it was. I got it. If we promised to talk about how depraved Sean Hannity's eulogy was. And that seemed like a fair deal to me.

[Crystal Ball]

Easiest deal you've ever made.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Crystal Ball]

Well done.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Make sure. Stick around because we have a little bit of sound from Hannity's eulogy.

[Crystal Ball]

Indeed. We've also got Jasper Nathaniel. He's going to join to talk both about Netanyahu. I think this was his eighth visit to D.C. with Trump and he's saying it went great. There's some other indications that maybe it didn't go so great from his perspective. I don't know. We'll see what, what Jasper thinks about that. And then even more significantly, he's just back from a trip to the west bank where he witnessed the ongoing pogroms there. Those pogroms have only escalated since his departure. So he's going to talk to us about what exactly is happening in the West Bank. We've got an interesting story here about the Shopify CEO apparently coming out against democracy. He thinks that if you don't pay income taxes, you shouldn't vote and that the rich should get more votes than the non rich. So it's pretty interesting ideas coming from the oligarchs these days. And then we've got a whole bunch of polls. We say Texas here because there's a poll that has Talarico up in Texas, but we've also got some really interesting data out of Wisconsin. We just interviewed yesterday Francesca Hong, who is the front runner in that race. She's a DSA candidate to be the Democratic gubernatorial nominee. Um, they had a debate last night that was pretty interesting. And we've also got some poll numbers that show her, Emily, just running away with that race at this point. And it looks like data centers are really dominating voters minds as they consider who they want to support moving into the general election in Wisconsin. So, you know, we asked her some about that yesterday. That's been a really important part of her policy platform.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, no surprise there at all to hear that. It's what's popping in this race. But the other Democratic candidates are woefully behind Francesca Hong on that particular issue. So you're going to want to stick around and see the facts from that race. Chris will also be doing an AMA after the show for premium subscribers. So everybody, if you are a premium subscriber, stick around for that. If you're not, AMAs are really fun. BreakingPoints.com is where you can go to support the show. That's also where you can go to sign up for for the newsletter, which people have absolutely been loving. And it's very gratifying to see that people are loving the newsletter. Crystal, because I love the newsletter, it's a great place for us to drop some links in after we wrap these shows. You can go and see it's totally free. There's a premium version as well. But you can go and see some of the material that we're working with every single day. Follow the links yourself and get really quick summaries of the basically of each segment that we do every day. So loving the newsletter.

[Crystal Ball]

Yep, exactly. If you, you know, in a place where you can't listen to a whole video, but you want to get a gist of what's going on in the world and what we talked about today, that is the way to do it. So of course, just after we finished wrapping our Iran block, Trump had to come out and make some really wild and provocative comments about how he will respond to Iranian attacks from yesterday. Let's take a listen to that.

[Fox News Reporter]

President Trump reacting to that Iranian attack on US Forces overnight in Jordan. President Trump tells Fox News about Iran. We are going to beat the effing s out of them. He went on to say. We'll be hitting them hard. They're going to get a beating. So clearly the United States is going to respond to what the President described as a surprise attack. He says U.S. forces had just minutes to shoot down these incoming Iranian ballistic missiles. The President says he has reviewed video of the shoot down and it was US Forces conducting this operation to defend that area. He said it was real time. They were calling out coordinates and and ensuring that none of this incoming Iranian fire got through. I also asked the president about those U.S. and Saudi airstrikes against Iran backed Iraqi Shia militias overnight. He says those strikes were coordinated with the Iraqi government. He called these Iran backed militias a cancer on the world and says he is considering additional warnings against Iranian proxies and their link to the Iranian regime. The President also talked about his meeting yesterday with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in the Oval Office. He says it was a great meeting, adding he understands now it appears that the relationship between President Trump and the Israeli Prime Minister is strengthening. And again, the President called that meeting in the Oval great. In terms of possible talks with the Iranian regime. The President says we're going to let them keep talking. Remember, the Iranians came to President Trump After 13 straight days of US bombing against Iran asking to meet about the Strait of Hormuz and their broader nuclear ambitions. And those talks are taking place as we speak behind the scenes. And then this surprise attack launched against U.S. forces overnight. And again President Trump telling Fox News we are going to beat the effing s out of them and that US Strikes will take place against Iran in response to the surprise attack overnight against US Forces in Jordan.

[Crystal Ball]

There you go. The President in response to Iranian attempted attacks on Jordan, saying we're going to beat the effing s out of them as, as they were saying there on Fox News. And any sign of negotiations or any idea that this was going to be a new cooling period, I think are completely off the table. Emily.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, absolutely. And we have already lost 20American troops in that, in that neighborhood, in that ballpark. Unfortunately. I'm not sure actually what the real number is, Crystal. I don't know if anybody has confidence in what the real number is, but there's non zero chance that we see more American deaths in the days to come. If this escalates, as President Trump says, we're going to beat the fucking shit out of them. That is to me a pretty terrifying sign of escalation potentially. Now, of course, Trump likes to talk in escalatory rhetoric and then not actually do the escalation part of the escalatory rhetoric. Sometimes. Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't. So yet to be determined what actually happens, especially as reports mount about our munitions stockpiles and how serious of a problem that is internally at the Pentagon right now. So we'll see what actually happens. But that's, you know, the bombast you can never ignore, of course, when it, when it's Donald Trump and that's kind of his point.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah. And you know, the analysis from yesterday and the day before that and the day before that and the day before that stands. Okay, let's say that you do more of an air bombing campaign of the same thing, you know, type of actions that we've been taking previously. That's unlikely to change the fundamental dynamics. The other options are a ground invasion. Are you going to try to take Carg Island? Are you going to deploy a tactical nuclear weapon against Pickaxe Mountain or something of that nature? These are all terrifying scenarios that I think we have to consider still to be very much on the table. With all of that being said, let's go ahead and get to the remainder of our analysis and so you guys can see the buildup to how we ended up at this threat from Trump and exactly what the Iranians were able to accomplish in Jordan.

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[Crystal Ball]

All right, with all that being said, let's go ahead and jump into the latest with regard to Iran. Here we can put these images up on the screen. So CENTCOM announced that Iran had launched an attack toward a US Base in Jordan. Now they are claiming CENTCOM is. The US is claiming that none of these missiles are found. Their targets there are. This is all unconfirmed, but there is some footage from the region that would seem to indicate otherwise. This is from drop site. They say Iran has launched ballistic missiles toward a US Base in Jordan. Arab and Iranian telegram accounts separately reported explosions and direct impacts at that air base. All claims remain unconfirmed. Purported footage shared on regional news channels is linked. So we don't know. We do know the US has lied about these sorts of things in the past, Emily, so it would not be surprised if some of of the missiles did get through. We also know from NBC News reporting that they've been having to ration interceptors. We know Iranian missiles and drones have found their targets in the past. So that's as much as we know about that situation. Could put the CENTCOM announcement up on the screen so people can see exactly what the U.S. is saying here. They say at 5:45pm Eastern time today, Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps forces launched multiple ballistic missiles from Iran in an attempted surprise attack on US forces based the Middle East. All Iranian missiles were successfully intercepted. US Forces remain vigilant and at a high state of readiness. Obviously no shock that Iran would be firing missiles at US assets and potential US service members here. But this is a very, this is really quite significant because previously Iran has mostly responded to provocations from the US and from our regional allies. This occurred at a time when there's no ceasefire in place anymore, but there had been no exchange of fire for several days. So for Iran to be the ones that break that lull in the action is quite notable and I think speaks to the fact that, number one, they see the US blockade, they see that, and I think justifiably so, as an act of war. Number two, while Trump is running around saying, oh, they want to negotiate with us, they're begging for negotiations. You know, we're going to try to negotiate with them. What the Iranians are saying is something quite different, that they are not interested in negotiations and that any negotiations moving forward would require the US to accept Iranian control over the Strait of Hormuz, something that the US at this point see as unacceptable. And so the Iranians feel that they have escalation dominance, that, you know, the US Is on the back foot and that the US Needs to feel more pain before the Iranians will be able to secure at the negotiating table, the gains that they have secured on the battlefield. So, so I think this is quite noteworthy and also shows, you know, the, the, the destruction of the MOU really at the hands of the US Undermining the terms of that MOU from the beginning is a massive missed opportunity for the US because the Iranians once again have an example of, you know, you can't negotiate with these people in good faith. The hardliners who said that, you know, said that all along and said this is a bad idea to we're giving up our leverage to go into this MoU. Their hands have been strengthened and you know, now you're gonna have a much more difficult time getting to the negotiating table and the terms that you're gonna secure are going to be worse than they were when they were able to put together the mou.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Certainly a very high possibility at this point. And meanwhile, obviously we're gonna talk about this in more depth later. Trump and Netanyahu were meeting at the White House yesterday here in Washington, D.C. and Trump called in two Fox and friends yesterday morning. Let's go ahead. First put a three up on the screen to just head over to Iraq for a second. This is from the. So this is the US And Saudi Arabia launched joint airstrikes on Iran backed militia targets in Iraq after more than 30 IRGC directed drone attacks over the past 72 hours per CENTCOM. The statement from CENTCOM comes just hours after Iranian strikes targeted a US Base in Jordan. So you have Saudi involvement there as well. And Donald Trump before the Lindsey Graham service yesterday called into FOX and Friends to well, he actually briefly got pushed on where the negotiations stand and who's actually being spoken with on the Iranian side. Just to give you a kind of glimpse at what seems to be or what they're willing to, what the public framing of where the negotiating stands is, at least from the President himself. Let's take a listen.

[Sean Kilmeade]

We have had some very good talks and very interesting with Lindsey. He was very much a hawk, as you would say, on Iran. And over the last few weeks, I would say that he became like if you could make a deal, it's better that, better making a deal in this case than just destroying the rest of the country. We've destroyed most of it frankly. But he was, he was somebody that said it's a good time to make a deal, nice time to make a deal.

[Donald Trump]

What does a good deal look like now?

[Sean Kilmeade]

I wouldn't say necessarily he feels that way about Ukraine. Ukraine he's very militant about, I mean Lindsey liked war, to be honest with you. Okay. You know, I said, you're a nice guy. How come you like war so much? He was a guy that liked war, I jokingly say, and there's nothing funny about it, but he's never seen a war that he didn't like. But I have some Republicans said, well, why don't we hit him harder? So, you know, it's like at some point. So I have, you have a lot of competing factions. You have a group of people that wanted to be obliterated in the truest sense of the word. Then you have a group that says, this is actually a good time to make a deal for them. If they don't make a deal, then I go back and I finish the job. But that's going to take them forever to rebuild already. It'll take them many years to ever rebuild. And I go back and finish up the job, as some people would like, with the bridges, with the very easy. I could take out most of their bridges in less than an hour. Less than an hour.

[Crystal Ball]

And you're going to be. We hear that you're talking right now

[Benjamin Netanyahu]

with leaders on Iran, but Iran has come out publicly and said we're not

[Alex Holder]

talking to the U.S. well, they just came out.

[Sean Kilmeade]

We are talking a little while ago because. So could you tell me who you talking to, Mr. President, for some reason, for some reason, we can be in the midst of a beautiful discussion and they'll come out and say, we're not talking or we didn't discuss nuclear. Well, that's all we discuss because they'll never have a nuclear weapon. They understand that.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Kilmeade, they're pushing Trump to say who by saying who are you talking to? And Crystal Trump basically glossing over that. It doesn't appear that talks are really happening in substance right now. I think that seems pretty obvious.

[Crystal Ball]

Well, and this interview happened before the Iranian strikes on the base in Jordan. So I think the Iranians sent a message about how exactly they feel about talks right now with this attempted or possibly successful attack in Jordan. And just on the the piece from A3 the let's put it back up on the screen there. This was significant, too. You know, when we had Professor Morandi on the last time he was talking about how no one really discusses the Iraqi militias that are also allies of Iran and that in their view, they are the, you know, the most capable and most significant allied force of the Iranians. So here we have the US And Saudi Arabia launching joint strikes on some of those militias in Iraq the, the militias themselves are saying There were some 22, roughly fighters who were killed somewhere in that ballpark. And this seems to be in retaliation from some of the strikes on Saudi oil refineries and Aramco facilities, some of which have had to shut down because of the successful strikes there. So let's put a five up to that point. Yes, that's right. We can put a five up. We've got some of the, some of the images here. You can see satellite imagery. If we put the next one up, that shows the before and after of the, of the strikes. So you can see that they were significant, that damage was done, etc. And in any case, we've got oil going back up this morning. You know, the idea that, oh, there's going to be a lull, there's going to be new negotiations, we're going to go back to the memo of understanding. I think that's all been blown up this morning, literally and figuratively, so to speak.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, that's a 400,000 barre a day refinery. And according to Reuters, exactly as Krystal just described, that was shut down following an attack by Ansar Allah. Now, let's go to Oman, which presented. This is the next element. Iran with a proposal for a joint regional mechanism to manage the Strait of Hormuz with voluntary user fees. According to a Reuters report. Under the proposal, which reportedly has regional backing, Iran would not exercise sole control over the waterway. Foreign ministers from the Gulf Cooperation Council countries also held a virtual meeting on the ongoing negotiations Tuesday, according to Oman. Now, again, a reminder which our audience doesn't need, this was not on the table before the war. Crystal. This is an L for the United States no matter what. Even if, even if Iran does not exercise sole control over the waterway and there are voluntary user fees, that is a complete L based on where we were February 27th, day before the war started.

[Crystal Ball]

Yeah, that's exactly right. And you know, from the Iranian perspective, look, Trump was trying to do his typical, okay, let me stop attacking. I need the markets to open. Things are looking a little shaky on the economy. I don't wanna be Herbert Hoover, let me see what I can do to calm things down and manipulate the markets for another week and lie and say that the Iranians are begging for negotiations when they're really not. And the Iranians are basically saying, no, we're not going to let you do that. Um, it's a, it's a different day. We are not going to wait around for you to set the pace of attacks. We are taking control of the, the pace and the dynamics of the situation. So their strategy has long been that the US Needs to feel economic pain, that Trump needs to feel political pain. With the midterms looming and the hardliners argued in advance of the MOU that the US had not yet felt sufficient pain. And with Trump immediately trying to undermine that by establishing a separate corridor through the Strait of Hormuz, that sent the message that, yeah, that is correct, the US and the global economy need to feel more pain, which is, you know, a terrible situation for the entire world to be in, but that is where we are. So I think this is a highly, highly significant development that now the Iranians are not waiting and just responding to US or Israeli or Gulf Arab attacks, that they are actually taking the initiative and setting the pace themselves. We can put this drop site analysis of the Iranian position here. This is according to a senior Iranian official, laying out Tehran's strategy on Hormuz negotiations and the nuclear program. This is from their Deputy Foreign Minister for Legal and International Affairs. They say, number one, Iran says hormones will never return to the pre war status quo. And if I could just pause on this particular item itself, this is really the whole ball game. And Iran is not going to go back to negotiations based on what we can see until this is clearly affirmed by the US in the mou, the language was left a little bit squishy. They're not going to allow that in whatever the next agreement may be. Number two, they say Iran is prepared to keep the strait closed even if it means war resumes. And they reject restoring that southern shipping lane. That is what the US was trying to establish during the MoU period. Number three, talks are only with Oman, not Washington. So they're willing to negotiate with Amman. With regard to the Strait of Hormuz, they are not willing to negotiate with Washington. Number four, Iran says military pressure will not force concessions, so no matter how much they are bombed, they're not going to move off of this position. And number five, on the nuclear file, they said Iran is effectively operating as if it were no longer an NPT member. No IAEA inspections, no declarations, all agency access suspended. He adds that Tehran is debating whether to leave the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty altogether. The other side should not think Iran will remain in the NPT forever. All options are on the table. There's something else we discussed yesterday, which is that, you know the. We killed the guy, the previous supreme Leader, who was adamantly opposed to and had issued a religious edict against developing new nuclear weapons. That guy has got gone. The new guy seems to be much more open to it. So on every single issue they we have set ourselves back in terms of the stated goals of this war by starting this war on every single issue we are further away from the stated objectives here. And you know, I think it's, I think it's pretty extraordinary place that we're in right at this moment where it's no longer Iran waiting to see what the US Does. Now the US Is having to respond to Iranian actions here and the previous prospects of negotiations quickly bringing this to a close are completely off the table. It's we're six months in here too. And one other thing, Emily, I saw one analyst projecting perhaps the Iranians want to make a deal before the midterms because part of their leverage is this political leverage of Trump caring what happens in the midterms and after the midterms are done and that cake is baked, then you lose that piece. So that would at least give some hope that there could be some resolution, you know, around November leading into those November elections. But you know, we still got months to go and a lot of dismal and horrifying things could happen between now and then.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, I mean I think back to the first month of the war where I was in a pen and pad with Senator Ron Johnson, Republican Senator Ron Johnson, who described this as a two week bombing run. We're now six months in. The MOU has fallen apart and there's really know right now there's no indication that this is going to slow even in the near future. As if to underscore Crystal's point, let's put the next element up on the screen. This is a good point made by Sina Tusi who posts the CNN article with the headline Few Ships Risk Strait of Hormuz Crossing and None use route promoted by the US So Toucey points out Trump restarted the war because he wanted ships to abandon Iran's designated route through Hormuz for the U. S backed route weeks later after major escalation and Brent going back above $100, every transiting vessel is using Iran's designated route. None, none are using the US route. So hardly going according to plan.

[Crystal Ball]

Crystal yeah, that's exactly right. And this is crucial because this shows you who is in control here and who is setting the pace in terms of the global markets. That's before I even talk about now the disruptions in the Red Sea adding to the pressure in the global oil markets. There are some workarounds that Saudi Arabia is able to Use, including a pipeline. And you do have access to the Suez Canal, although the very large cargo ships that are used typically for transporting oil cannot fit through there. There are some workarounds to ease some of the pressure, but things are looking pretty grim and that is a very telling indication, you know, all of the war of rhetoric aside, of who is actually in control here and who is able to determine what is going to happen with the global markets. Um, at the same time, wanted to just throw this in there because it's, I'm not quite sure what to make of it, but there's a new poll out that shows that the public is trusting Republicans at this point slightly more than Democrats on Iran, which given how dismally unpopular the Iran war is, how dismally unpopular Trump's handling of the Iran war is, I think has to be read as a complete and utter indictment of the Democrats ability to formulate a coherent opposition and articulate their position. Let's go ahead and take a listen to a little bit of this.

[Sean Hannity]

In April, according to a Washington Post ipsos, Paul, the Democrats were more trusted by two points. Again, close margin, no clear leader. But look where the shift has been. If anything, the shift has been in the Republican direction and now the Republicans and Donald Trump are trusted more by two points on Iran. So again, over the course of the war, if anything, the Republicans have been the ones that have been gaining ground, which I think just goes so opposed to all of the news coverage that we have seen so far and all of you know, the media, you would think, hey, but no, the American people are actually trusting the Republicans and Trump if anything, more now than they were or let's say halfway through the war.

[Crystal Ball]

What do you think about that?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Em, I don't know what to make about that because it is so close. The swing is going from plus two Dems to plus two Republicans. That.

[Crystal Ball]

But you would think, I mean just offhand, you would think it would be Democrats by 30 points given how much everybody hates this war. But so I think it has to be the fact that the Democrats are kind of quiet about the Iran war because a lot of them are very hawkish, a lot of them sort of low key. So support it. They don't have a clear cut position, they haven't been adamant in their opposition or had a really coherent articulation. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's primarily what it's boiled down to. So I think it has to be that, you know, at least the Trump has the position, although it changes day to day of whether we're annihilating them or whether we're talking to them and we're gonna be besties, you know, in the next few days. But I also think it ties into, we're gonna talk later on about, you know, all the Democratic socialists who are doing really well in their elections. And, and it looks like there's going to be a sweep right now. You've got Abdul Al said up on Haley Stevens new poll came out that shows him leading significantly in that race even in spite of the $50 million being spent against him. You got Francesca Hong who is leading. You got Peggy Flanagan over in Minnesota who is also leading. And I think it speaks to the fact that they do have a clear message on Iran and is what the public wants to hear. It's part of what is giving them credibility in their campaigns as well. So this should be, I mean, not that they care, they'll listen, but this should be a warning sign to Democrats that the public really wants a fierce anti war resistance. And if you're doing, if you're just staying silent or you're doing a little bit of process complaints so Trump's not doing this horrific war the right way, then you're really missing the boat.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It takes moral clarity out of the equation if you're just making process complaints because deep down you would have supported Biden doing some level of this. Probably not exactly in the same way that Donald Trump did. But process aside, the substance, the kind of end goal, the stated end goal at least it does remove the measure of moral clarity that is needed to probably have a resounding level of public trust. So yeah, it's on a silver platter right now for Democrats and to see that poll, I think you're right, Crystal. It's interesting that it's not like a five point lead, an eight point lead, let alone a ten point lead.

[Crystal Ball]

Crazy. All right, well, let's talk a little bit more about the gentleman who was one of the most influential in pushing for this disastrous war. That is Lindsey Graham.

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[Sagar Enjeti]

Very excited to be joined now the day after Lindsey Graham's funeral by Alex Holder, documentary filmmaker who actually had the opportunity to follow Lindsey Graham in the course of making this yet to be released documentary, Four and a Half Years. Is that how long you spent with him?

[Alex Holder]

Yeah, four and a half years. Yeah.

[Sagar Enjeti]

That is incredible. And we just were talking before we went to air about how you were flying back and forth between Los Angeles and Washington, D.C. so you must have seen so much kind of through Lindsey Graham's eyes. Oddly enough, over the last very consequential period in American politics, before the 2024 election even, you watched all of that through Lindsey Graham's eyes. How caught off guard were you by what happened?

[Alex Holder]

I think the thing that caught me off guard the most was really the amount of access that we got. Right. I mean, he was generous in that respect, which was definitely something that I wasn't expecting. I mean, I think we had intended there to be something more substantial than, you know, just sort of seeing people shake hands and that kind of thing. I think this was. It was just totally remarkable that we were going into meeting and into sort of high level conversations that we were capturing. So that was definitely something that I wasn't expecting. But yes, I mean, the amount of things that have happened in the last four and a half years is extraordinary. And he was at the forefront of almost all of these issues. So it was amazing to capture these moments all the way through this process.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, we have a new clip that we can show folks here. This is the late Senator Graham talking about his work with Benjamin Netanyahu and the icc. Let's take a look.

[Benjamin Netanyahu]

Right.

[Unidentified Speaker (possibly a political aide or analyst)]

Who is, I would say, just about the most hostile prime minister or head of state in Europe. It's possible to have to appeal to the court to say, okay, we want to review this. Before you do anything, before you do a right war, there has to be a review about this attack process. Whether the prosecutor was motivated.

[Benjamin Netanyahu]

Right. The original action. Exactly, exactly.

[Unidentified Speaker (possibly a political aide or analyst)]

Or the state has to be removed and everything has to be exposed. Then you send a letter with maybe with some other senators. I don't know if you think any Democrats are on them, but you should. But if not, can the group. Maybe the group. You had one.

[Benjamin Netanyahu]

I tell you, the perfect person would be the Speaker. Speaker Johnson

[Unidentified Speaker (possibly a political aide or analyst)]

would be what?

[Benjamin Netanyahu]

Speaker Johnson. No, to have to have him on the letter. I don't know. I won't know that. I'll try, but I will try. I promise you that.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, a lot to talk about just based on that clip alone, because your level of access is extraordinary, clearly. And Lindsey Graham is not just any other senator. This is a man who has a deep personal relationship with the Prime Minister of Israel in wartime and with the President of the United States. And so you are seeing foreign policy be hashed out in real time as you're taping this documentary. One thing I just want to start with. He looks diminished to me physically in that clip alone. So do you remember when that was taken? And did you get a sense that maybe all of this travel, the stress of the travel had started to wear on him, so he passed. Yeah.

[Alex Holder]

So this particular clip, it was actually a stressful period. He was campaigning in Ohio for the upcoming presidential election. He had just come from a rally with Don Jr. And so we were in rural Ohio and we actually stopped off because he needed to go to the toilet. And he comes out and we're sort of filming all the Way, all of this, except when he goes to the toilet and then he says, you know, the prime minister is about to call. And, you know, honestly, we don't even know which prime minister is about to call. Right. I don't know. Heads of state would be calling all the time. Well, so he says that's probably good tv. So he really wanted this stuff captured. It wasn't just by the. I mean, it was always by the by in the sense of there were days where we'd be filming and not that many interesting things would happen. And then there were days and then we'd actually get quite upset because we started getting greedy. Like, you know, these things were happening quite often. But then there were times where, yeah, the prime minister of Israel would call. So I think he was under pressure, but. But not. So maybe in the context of the election more than sort of all the traveling he was doing later in the process, there was signs of him really being quite tired and also sort of mentally tired as well from all the things he was dealing with. Yeah, absolutely.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah. That is interesting because it caught everybody off guard. His death obviously caught everybody off guard. But when you look back on it, it did seem like there were signs he was getting older and he was traveling to Ukraine right before he passed. And so many, so much travel to Israel. I do want to show some clips here from the funeral. So this is President, by the way, we have the program from the funeral right here. I mentioned this earlier in the show, but somebody gave this to me on the condition that we talk about how weird Sean Hannity's eulogy was to be charitable. So we're going to take a listen to the president himself. First, let's listen to B3. This is Donald Trump at Lindsey Graham's funeral yesterday.

[Donald Trump]

Heated things got in Washington. Virtually everyone, Republican or Democrat, liked Lindsey. Well, not everybody, but it sounds good. Not everybody. He was a tough cookie. Okay. I have to be. I have to veer from this for a second. He was a tough cookie, Darlene, but he was beautiful. Our nation needs more men and women like that great person sitting, laying, wherever he may be. I think I know where he is and I think he's up there. I think he's watching us. I'm pretty sure of it. And he was extremely hawkish. I will tell you. He never saw war that he didn't like. Only his true friends would understand that.

[Sagar Enjeti]

All right, now let's take a listen to Fox News host Sean Hannity, who was a close friend of Senator Graham's. And this is a bit from his eulogy.

[Sean Hannity]

Lindsey Mr. President, I would argue in my mind probably has a heavenly version of Mar a Lago. It may even be a little bigger. He may have a little more gold in the Oval Office, in his mansion in heaven. And I wouldn't be surprised if he added one big beautiful ballroom and an arch somewhere on the property because he would want to obviously duplicate his dearest friend in life. You, Mr. President.

[Sagar Enjeti]

A couple of other quotes from the Hannity eulogy. Senator Graham was great for ratings. He was a shameless self promoter. Nobody ever said Lindsey Graham.com more than he did. He at one point turned to Tim Scott and said he always knew you had much higher poll numbers than him, but he respected that. He was happy for you, I think, is what the rest of the Hannity comment was. So just wanted to get your reaction, Alex, to what happened yesterday. Having spent so much time with Lindsey Graham, what do you think he would have felt about the funeral? PROCE no big surprises, I suppose.

[Alex Holder]

No, I mean, I think he probably is actually surprised that President Trump almost stayed entirely on script, which I think is actually quite unique and also surprisingly, was probably actually quite a good speech, I think actually in the context of things, maybe not the highest bar to reach, I don't know. But either way, I think he would have been surprised by that. As to whether or not he's in Mar a Lago or a greater Mar a Lago right now, I don't know. But yeah, I mean, look, you know, he was a consequential politician and incredibly controversial, complicated. And I think that his impact was enormous. And there will be lots of people who will see this documentary and see some of the very serious issues are affecting America and the world today, him being very influential in those decisions. And there'll be some people who support those decisions. So I think. But what the documentary does is it really shows how it was all done and a real behind the scenes of this, this process, which I think personally is fascinating.

[Sagar Enjeti]

It's funny to me that, you know, I didn't even notice that the Hannity eulogy was that odd because I think if you followed Lindsey Graham closely, you did realize that there was a, a kind of shamelessness that he was comfortable with when it came to fundraising, when it came to promoting Republicans. I mean, there's this clip going around now of him at a Blake Masters fundraiser. And Blake Masters is very, very different kind of Republican from Lindsey Graham. And Lindsey Graham said, I'll support any Republican. I just want to get him elected. And some people might look at that and say, it's kind of cynical power politics. But I'm curious what your take is on this. He seemed to really believe in the Republican Party itself, which is kind of an interesting thing these days. There's so much disillusionment about the institutions, but he seemed to be a staunch believer, like in the GOP as an establishment.

[Alex Holder]

Absolutely. And I think there are some moments earlier on in the documentary that we capture where you see the difficulties that he has with the sort of old school Republican Party and this sort of new Republican Party since President Trump came into it. So I think that's pretty fascinating. And that takes place in the first couple of years of us filming with him. I think. Yeah, he loved being on tv. He absolutely loved it. I mean, I was actually on Meet the Press, and I was saying to the presenter there how, you know, almost on. Every single time he would go on tv, he would send me a text saying, I'm on Meet the Press or I'm on Fox or I'm on Sean Hannity tonight. And, you know, he loved him doing it. You know, we. The number of times we filmed him going from the Senate office into his car, from the car to the studios around the corner. Sometimes he would practice what he was going to say with us. And then I sort of wised up to it. So I said, I know, we're not doing this anymore. And he goes, no, no, it's fine. He goes, because basically you can use this and not have to buy the archive from Fox afterwards. So, you know, he's, you know, he loved it and he loved, he loved doing, you know, saying his piece, and he really didn't, I wouldn't say he didn't care, but the criticisms he was able to sort of brush off quite easily, which I thought was also quite interesting.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, talk to us about his relationship with Donald Trump, because I don't know that there's anybody in the Senate as close to Donald Trump as Lindsey Graham was. And it seemed to me, at least, that they had the rare type of relationship. One thing people get wrong about Donald Trump is that they think he wants you to come in there and just, just glaze him, say all of the nicest possible things about him, and never, ever offer any pushback. But my interpretation of their relationship is that Trump respected Lindsey Graham because he would come in and say, you know, when he disagrees with others, he's still very flattering towards the president, very flattering towards the president. But what was the nature of their relationship? And maybe, you know, what People don't understand about his relationship with Trump, too.

[Alex Holder]

So I don't give too much away because there are some really interesting moments here, but they did have a good relationship overall. He did respect Trump very much, but I think that respect was very much in the context of understanding that Trump is the president, and pushing against him is not good for you if you want to stay in what he calls the game. So he will move wherever he needs to move to maintain his relevance and to push his agenda.

[Unidentified Speaker (possibly a political aide or analyst)]

We.

[Alex Holder]

The other thing I'll say that was very important was really golf. The importance of golf in their relationship was absolutely enormous. I mean, the amount of influence or the amount of things he could push towards President Trump took place on the golf course. And I think that was key in their relationship. So the number of times, again, he would say that he was playing golf with Trump and he would send pictures or selfies of him, sometimes he'd put it on social media as well. So he, you know, he. Absolutely. That was at the key in their relationship. We have some moments in the documentary of them speaking, and it's fascinating to hear those conversations. So. But one of the things that, you know, he did with respect to Trump is that sometimes he would say to try and push back against issues that he didn't agree with with President Trump. He would say, well, if you do that, that's sort of what President Obama would do.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Wow.

[Alex Holder]

And that would change his thinking in some respects.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Strategic.

[Alex Holder]

Oh, absolutely. He was really, again, controversial, no question. But smart at being able to push his agendas. Yeah, absolutely.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Let's take a look here at more. This is going to be B2. Get your reaction on the other side.

[Benjamin Netanyahu]

Y' all should fucking pay me for all this. I should get tons of shekels. Yeah, Bullshit. It's gonna be more than dinner. All right, we got them both. So they both want to do the letter. Yeah, no, I'm. So here's why I'm calling you. I'm trying to get out the door Wednesday, Washington time. So send me over whatever you want to send. They want to say two things. They want to say you should reconsider not talking to Israel. You should talk to them. And two, you shouldn't move ahead until this case. The cloud is lifted. So slow down. No, and both of them are. Yeah, but. But here's what I need you. Yeah, yeah, No, I am. I just want to. Yeah, but I want you tomorrow. Yeah, that's right.

[Unidentified Speaker (possibly a political aide or analyst)]

Yeah.

[Benjamin Netanyahu]

Just send it to me. We'll send it to that person. But I do need you, if you don't mind tomorrow to call Blumenthal and Cardin and thank them for being fair minded on this and also thank them for trying to help with Saudi Israel normalization. He said he'd get me in the second row at the White House signing ceremony. That'd be my payback.

[Alex Holder]

Yeah.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Alex, what did we just listen to? What was that?

[Alex Holder]

So that was the subsequent call that he has for the Prime Minister of Israel after essentially calling around various senators to get them to support a letter that would support the Prime Minister of Israel in pushing against his, at the time, pending arrest warrant. I think that the arrest warrant had been issued by the prosecutor and it was now about to be looked at by a panel of judges. And there were some. There was a judge that had resigned, another judge had come in. So it was before it was actually issued, I believe. And this was a letter to support the Prime Minister in what he felt was an unfair prosecution against him and others in Israel. And I think what was very interesting was in the earlier call that I think we just heard, the. The Prime Minister is really pushing for Democrats to be on this letter.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yes.

[Alex Holder]

And what I thought was very interesting during this moment was that he was calling a Republican to help him with that, which I thought was quite, quite interesting. And then send it to Graham and spend some time doing, trying to find these Democrats that would support this letter. And then he has this conversation with the Prime Minister afterwards. And a little color here. The Prime Minister is actually chairing a, at the time, a security meeting, you know, in the midst of the Gaza war. So he's actually been pulled out of this meeting to discuss this issue, which I think is pretty extraordinary.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah.

[Alex Holder]

And, you know, Senator Graham would help people that he was friendly with, but it also had to, you know, sort of coincide and align with his own goals.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Goals.

[Alex Holder]

And Senator Graham had been pushing for, for a very long time, a deal with Saudi Arabia and Israel, some sort of normalization. And, you know, Prime Minister Netanyahu was not particularly interested in prioritizing that. So in that conversation, it. Senator Graham was really. He had won over the Prime Minister, he had helped him out. So now he expected something in return. The thing in return would have been, I want you to agree on effectively saying thank you to these senators. So he was instructing the Prime Minister to say thank you to these senators of signing it and specifically on their interest in building this normalization between Saudi and Israel. So. Yeah. And then you can also hear the sort of the jokeiness of their friendship as well in that conversation. But, yeah, I think that was a very interesting part of the, behind the scenes of the know, sort of diplomatic approaches that they have with each other. Yeah.

[Sagar Enjeti]

And assuming, of course, that he would tell Prime Minister Netanyahu that they're being taped before these conversations.

[Alex Holder]

I have no idea what he said beforehand.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So presumably, I guess, well, it's possible that Netanyahu didn't know that he had a documentary film crew with him.

[Alex Holder]

I would say that's probably the case, yeah.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Oh, my gosh, that's wild. What did you learn about Washington over the course of this documentary? Because Senator Graham himself embodied a lot of old Washington, and people saw him as a bridge between old Washington and new Washington. You know, he voted against Ketanji Brown Jackson after voting to confirm every other Democrat's Supreme Court nominations. And in that sense was kind of a new. It was a new chapter for old Washington. But he was also someone who Netanyahu could call to try and get Democrats on the letter, for example. So he's an insight into the way the city itself worked and works. Now, what did you learn?

[Alex Holder]

So I think he, from what I understand, really was quite a standout in the sort of D.C. world. He was totally wedded to the job. Right. I mean, 24 hours, seven days a week. I mean, there was no respite. He was absolutely working very, very hard. I actually think he found, well, think, as in, there were moments where he was really quite disappointed that his colleagues didn't spend as much time as him on these issues that he thought was incredibly important and was frustrated by this and felt under pressure. I think he was, I mean, honestly, more consequential than almost all of the other senators, at least from what I understand in terms of his relationships with other world leaders, his relationships with President Trump. So in some respects, he was quite a unique person in Washington, D.C. and I think we will see the impact of his death with respect to some foreign policy decisions that are made in the future, without question.

[Sagar Enjeti]

How is he keeping up with his correspondence? Like, even just the fact that he's texting you about all of the Fox News hits that he was doing, which is a lot. He must have been getting inundated constantly with text messages, calls. That just sounds like maybe a silly question, but it seems to me like as a United States Senator, you have a massive job that's overwhelming, and yet he's making time to text you about a Fox News hit. What did you get from just what did you sense the demand was on him from people trying to, you Know, cut deals, talk to him. He's manipulating. He's constantly talking to media, including yourself. What did you see? Just on his phone, basically.

[Alex Holder]

So a few things. One is that the best stuff that we actually got with him was when he's in the car. Car or traveling. And I think that was really kind of his office, the car, the phone calls, the texts. He would dictate his tweets to his staff from the car. And he was discerning, though, with his, you know, with the people he responded to. It all had to fit a particular agenda. So if somebody was talking to him about issues that he didn't think were. Are particularly important, a lot of the time, say, some domestic issues, those would be not prioritized. And then I think also, obviously, he would prioritize the leaders that were texting him, and they were, I mean, literally worldwide. Zelensky texting his mobile phone directly. Yeah.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Unbelievable. For you, that just must have been a wild ride. My last question, I could keep doing this all day, but my last question is, where were you when you found out he had passed? And how did that hit you? Just on a personal level.

[Alex Holder]

It hit hard on a personal level in the sense that you are spending time with somebody for four and a half years, and it was a shock. I was in Europe, actually, when I found out, and my sort of initial reaction really, was actually immense sympathy to his staff. His staff were his family, obviously his sister. But we knew his staff pretty well, and I think they. And I know that they were massively heartbroken by this, by him passing away. So, you know, they took care for him over many, many years. Some of his staff had been with him since they were teenagers. I mean, he's had people that have worked for him for three decades. So I think that was sort of. My initial reaction was how Babe would be. But. But, yeah, I mean, you know, it's. It's terrible. It is terribly sad when anyone dies, I think. And it was a shock.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Actually, I do have one more question, because you saw his security apparatus probably up close as well, and even some kind of moderates here in the United States, people who were aligned with him, very hawkish, had suspicions immediately that this must have been a Russian operation or that it may have been a Russian operation, because he had just been in Ukraine, just gotten back from Ukraine. So was there some type of espionage and some type of assassination effort? But you saw. You would have seen his security, how he traveled. What did you make of some of those concerns? And what can you tell us about. About how secure he was as he was traveling.

[Alex Holder]

I mean, I don't think there was any nefarious thing that happened with respect to his death. I think that there were changes in his security depending on the various things that were happening in the world at the time. So sometimes.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So you would notice that.

[Alex Holder]

Yeah, absolutely. Oh, absolutely. Towards actually the last few months of his life, his security actually went up because of the various things he was saying about Iran and Russia, specifically the Iranian threat, I believe. So I think that he was. He passed away. It was most, I would say natural causes. And he. Yeah, he worked very, very hard and he did not really take that much care of himself. You know, he's one of those people where, you know, eating was not as important as getting to a meeting with the crown prince of Saudi Arabia at 3 o' clock in the morning in a palace in Rick. Right. Like you would eat afterwards.

[Sean Kilmeade]

Wow.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, Alex Holder, I am very eager to see this. Where can people follow your work and look out for this documentary?

[Alex Holder]

Probably on X and maybe even on your show.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Love it.

[Alex Holder]

Yeah. And I also have to mention Colby and Spencer, who are massive fans. They're my producers and they are massive fans and they're going to be so happy that I just mentioned them.

[Benjamin Netanyahu]

So.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, well, that's what makes us happy. So shout out to Coleman Spencer and Alex Holder. Thank you so much for being here.

[Alex Holder]

Thank you so much. It's a pleasure.

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