7/30/25: Trump Says Epstein 'Stole' Girls From Him, Publisher Of Black Book Speaks Out, Jon Stewart Rips Israel Gaslighting

Summary

Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar – Episode Summary (July 30, 2025)

In this compelling episode of Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar, hosts Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti delve into a range of explosive topics, including former President Donald Trump's controversial remarks about Jeffrey Epstein, the evolving situation of Ghislaine Maxwell, the shifting political landscape among young voters, and the intensified scrutiny of Israel's actions in Gaza. The episode culminates with an insightful interview with investigative journalist Nick Bryant, shedding light on Epstein's extensive network.

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1. Trump's Controversial Comments on Jeffrey Epstein

The episode opens with Krystal and Saagar addressing President Trump's latest statements regarding his fallout with Jeffrey Epstein. Trump recently claimed that Epstein "stole" young women from his mar-a-lago spa, suggesting a rift based on unethical practices.

Notable Quote:

Donald Trump [06:29]: "They were taken and it was the concept of taking people that work for me is bad... I told him, 'We don't want you taking our people.'"

Krystal analyzes Trump's admission, highlighting the disturbing implication that Epstein was actively recruiting employees from mar-a-lago for dubious purposes. They raise critical questions about Trump's awareness of Epstein's illicit activities and the nature of their relationship.

2. Ghislaine Maxwell's Legal Struggles and Potential Cooperation

Moving forward, the hosts discuss Ghislaine Maxwell's current status, including her transfer to a minimum-security prison and the conditions surrounding her potential congressional testimony.

Notable Quote:

Krystal Ball [14:41]: "Ghislaine Maxwell being moved to more cushy prison conditions is troubling, reflecting echoes of Epstein's own lenient treatment."

Saagar and Krystal express skepticism about Maxwell's willingness to cooperate fully, speculating that any collaboration might aim to exonerate Trump. They underscore the lack of transparency from the administration and the potential for strategic manipulation of Maxwell's testimony.

3. Declining Trump Approval Among Young Voters

The conversation shifts to recent polling data indicating a significant drop in Donald Trump's approval ratings among 18-29-year-olds, plummeting from 55% to 28%.

Notable Quote:

Saagar Enjeti [23:07]: "Trump's approval among younger voters has eroded drastically, undermining previous Republican optimism about securing future support."

Krystal emphasizes the vulnerability of this demographic, highlighting their openness to anti-establishment candidates and the potential for a political realignment as young voters seek authentic leadership untainted by entrenched interests.

4. The Intersection of Israel Policy and Epstein Scandal

Krystal and Saagar explore the complex relationship between American political stances on Israel and the Epstein scandal, suggesting that support for Israel is becoming a litmus test for authenticity and independence among voters.

Notable Quote:

Krystal Ball [27:19]: "Supporting Israel without scrutiny is now seen as a failure to uphold independent principles, intertwining foreign policy with domestic integrity."

They argue that the inability to reconcile America's support for Israel with the demands for accountability in the Epstein case is fracturing traditional political alliances and compelling voters to prioritize moral clarity over partisan loyalty.

5. Interview with Nick Bryant: Exposing Epstein's Black Book

The highlight of the episode is an in-depth interview with Nick Bryant, founder of Epstein Justice, who provides firsthand accounts of his investigative efforts into Epstein's trafficking network.

Notable Quotes:

Nick Bryant [34:35]: "I was the first to publish Epstein's flight logs and Black Book, uncovering over a hundred victims and revealing a nationwide pedophile network."

Nick Bryant [38:13]: "The Black Book contained more information than any binders or public records, exposing the depth of Epstein's connections and the complicity of powerful individuals."

Bryant recounts his struggles to get the story published, facing resistance from mainstream media reluctant to confront the uncomfortable truths about Epstein's extensive influence. His relentless pursuit underscores the systemic failures in addressing child trafficking and the urgent need for comprehensive congressional investigations.

6. Jon Stewart's Outspoken Critique of Israel's Actions in Gaza

The episode also features commentary on Jon Stewart's recent statements criticizing Israel's blockade on Gaza, which he likens to genocide and ethnic cleansing.

Notable Quote:

Jon Stewart [71:29]: "When you see children being bombed and starving, there's no excuse—it's inhumane and horrific. We must condemn this atrocity without fear of backlash."

Krystal praises Stewart's forthrightness, contrasting it with the hesitancy often observed in mainstream liberal discourse. She stresses the moral imperative for leaders and commentators to unequivocally denounce the suffering in Gaza, irrespective of political affiliations.

7. The Future of American Politics Amidst Scandals and Conflicts

In the concluding segments, Krystal and Saagar discuss the long-term implications of these scandals and international conflicts on American politics. They highlight the potential for a political shift as younger, more principled voters demand transparency and accountability from their leaders.

Notable Quote:

Krystal Ball [85:55]: "The disconnect between Democratic leadership and the base's demand for ethical governance is widening. This realization is crucial for future electoral outcomes and the moral direction of the party."

They caution against the pervasive influence of blackmail and kompromat in politics, urging for systemic reforms to dismantle corrupt networks and restore public trust.

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Conclusion

This episode of Breaking Points offers a thorough examination of critical issues intertwining politics, personal misconduct, and international conflict. Through incisive analysis and robust interviews, Krystal and Saagar underscore the necessity for accountability and ethical leadership in navigating the complexities of modern governance.

Transcript

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[Sagar]

Conditions apply hey guys sager and krystal.

[Krystal]

Here independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of the show this.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Sagar]

The right that simply does not exist.

[Krystal]

Anywhere else so if that is something that's important to you please go to breakingpoints dot com become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your.

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Inbox we need your help to build the future of independent news media and.

[Sagar]

We hope to see you at breaking.

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Points dot com.

[Sagar]

Good morning welcome to breaking points i almost shouted like crystal like sagar or crystal crystal was shouting earlier this morning when she was testing her sound but i think we have.

[Krystal]

It down krystal we're working on the kicks this morning apparently yes there's some really interesting things though that we have to get to including some of the most eyebrow raising comments i think i've ever heard from president trump which is kind of saying a lot this with regard to the falling out that he had with jeffrey epstein so we'll get.

[Sagar]

To that yeah he keeps talking lots of new clips he was on air force one coming back from scotland yesterday fielding questions from reporters about jeffrey epstein and was actually revealing some new information so ghislaine maxwell also in a different prison now a minimum security prison so.

[Krystal]

We have how nice for her yeah.

[Sagar]

Not bad so we have all kinds of stuff to get to and crystal on epstein bryant is joining us right.

[Krystal]

Yeah so nick bryant is the journalist who exposed epstein's black book back in i believe twenty fifteen actually more information than what's given in those infamous binders by pam bondi he is probably the journalist who has single handedly exposed the most information about epstein any potential like associations with him so really looking forward to speaking with him and you know learning what we can about the way that he operated and who else may be implicated we also have some new comments from trump with regard to palestinians starving and some interesting media comments to get to with regard to israel as well jon stewart speaking out we had the pod save bros going pretty hard we've got some pretty dire polling if you're you know benjamin netanyahu with regard to how the american public feels about all of this and some other interesting elements to get to there as well we've got pete buttigieg completely sort of missing the boat on what it was that was appealing about zoran mamdani in a way that is very revealing about pete and his aspirations himself and a bunch of polling info coming out of there that just shows or on absolutely dominating the competition with virtually every demographic group including jewish voters in new york so we can put to bed this idea that you know oh jewish people don't trust him and he's going to make them unsafe blah blah blah clearly jewish new yorkers by and large do not agree also great guess that that you identified emily excited to talk to peter ryan about how he went from crypto true believer to complete skeptic and he wrote a great piece for compact mag that's obviously very relevant because we just had the passage of the genius act and emily and i are also going to take some time to dive into the important issues here that sydney sweeney american eagle jeans ad that lit up the internet so we'll have a little friendly debate on that one i.

[Sagar]

Think crystal demanded it so just so everybody's aware that's true now everyone has seen the alyssa slotkin interview by now and that's just a reminder get a breaking points premium subscription because if you had a premium subscription you saw that video first so breaking points dot com premium subscription support the support crystal being able to do and saga being able to do awesome interviews like that in addition to everything we do here at.

[Krystal]

Breaking points and you doing awesome interviews as well don't sell yourself and ryan graham short either yeah but in this.

[Sagar]

Endeavor yes but the last twenty four hours we got to give the credit to you guys where it's due that interview has made so many headlines so great work to both of you on.

[Krystal]

That one well i appreciate that i thought a lot about how to approach that interview i did a lot and i know sagar did too and i just want to say for all of the self interested influencers out there it got a lot of attention yeah so you know you can hold these politicians feet to the fire and you know get whatever clout you're looking for not that that was our goal but i'm just saying if you're like a cynical actor out there totally hey this was a good way to get people to pay attention to what you were up to so maybe think about that in the future next time you people sit down with someone who has power or.

[Sagar]

Is aspiring to power nelk boys out here taking strays we're not even into the show yet.

[Krystal]

Steiny all right let's.

[Sagar]

Dive into the news yesterday from air force one where donald trump was fielding questions about his relationship with jeffrey epstein and made one particular comment that we are going to just camp out on for a second because it's quite relevant this is a one donald trump talking about the mar a lago spa everyone.

[Donald Trump]

Knows the people that were taken and it was the concept of taking people that work for me is bad but that story's been pretty well out there and the answer is yes they were yes they were yeah what did they do in the spa yeah people that work in the spa have a great spa one of the best spas in the world at mar a lago and people were taken out of the spa hired by him in other words gone and other people would come and complain this guy is taking people from the spa i didn't know that and then when i heard about it i told him i said listen we don't want you taking our people whether it was spa or not spa i don't want them taking people and he was fine and then not too long after that he did it again and i said.

[Krystal]

Out of here mister president did one of those stolen you know persons that include virginia nephre.

[Donald Trump]

I don't know i think she worked at the spa i think so i think that was one of the people he stole her and by the way she had no complaints about us as you know none whatsoever.

[Sagar]

Okay so what you just heard trump say there is epstein was stealing employees from the mar a lago spa which he also very cleverly got an advertisement in for during this question kristal he said best spa in the world so that's the new contention from trump about their relationship or that's the current contention from trump about their relationship falling apart is that epstein was plucking people from mar a lago and hiring them trump was asked there about virginia jeffrey obviously one of the most high profile epstein accusers who recently passed and crystal let's just take a look at this clip of jeffrey talking about her experience in the mar a lago spa this is.

[Virginia Giuffre]

A two i'm working at mar a lago loving it i'm working in the spa area i was reading about anatomy and massage and that's when ghislaine came up to me and said oh my god you're reading a book about massage and you know long story short she told me that she knew of a man who was looking for traveling masseuse and if he liked me then i would get educated and i would become a real massage therapist so yeah i mean it was dream of a lifetime until i got there and the abuse was immediate it has been reported that.

[Krystal]

They would prey on young girls who.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Were vulnerable she could smell the vulnerability on a person i told them a little bit about my past and how i had been abused so immediately it was like the cheshire smile is what i call it and i asked her i said why are you having all these girls come in and sleep with your boyfriend and she was like so i don't have to do it all the time so she made a joke she did it because she loves the control over people jeffrey was a sick pedophile but she was the mastermind so.

[Sagar]

That'S jeffrey on cbs this morning with gil king talking about how ghislaine maxwell recruited her while she was working in the spa at mar a lago so crystal trump is basically saying yes she worked at mar a lago jeffrey epstein took her from mar a lago and one of the reasons that he says he ended his friendship with jeffrey epstein is because epstein was poaching employees basically.

[Krystal]

Yeah i mean in his words he said he stole her and virginia giuffre when she worked at mar a lago she was you know when she was groomed by ghislaine maxwell she was sixteen and a few things that i think the most eyebrow raising part of these comments is first of all we've had a bunch of different stories about why exactly they fell out and reporters have dug in and said well actually it turns out jeffrey epstein continued to be on the log of guests of members at mar a lago all the way up until i believe it was two thousand seven even after his prosecution so i think that's important to note but it raises a lot of questions about it's what did you know you know donald trump what did you know about what was going on here because you have around the same time before they're falling out you have that infamous quote from trump where he's talking about how jeffrey likes him young and now you have this admission from him that he knew that jeffrey was quote stealing young underage girls from mar a lago and is claiming that's the reason for their falling out if that's true or not we don't know the other possibilities that have been floated as oh he was being a quote unquote creep with some of the members daughters that's why that's like the most favorable interpretation for trump epstein has claimed apparently according to michael wolf that it was over a real estate transaction epstein claims he was the one actually that broke off relationship with trump because he realized trump was a crook over this real estate transaction but you know it seems like a pretty stunning admission that he knew that virginia giuffre had essentially been again in his words stolen from mar a lago by jeffrey epstein and given what we know about how close their relationship was it's just very difficult to imagine that he didn't know some of what was going on at the very at the very.

[Sagar]

Least it's really wild when you're addressing a sex trafficking story to use the language of stole yeah that's a completely crazy thing to do like insensitive just first of all but i mean obviously we're talking about donald trump but it's even for him it just seems so.

[Krystal]

Bizarre crystal yeah it does and it also calls to mind you know another story from epstein victim who claimed that you know she was in called into this meeting with jeffrey epstein donald trump was there she was in some running shorts and trump was looking her up and down and epstein allegedly says to her no no no she's not for you there's also reporting you know alleging that and this is again this is from michael wolf that they shared girlfriends now the girlfriend in particular that he knows about was of age just to be totally clear but that was happening around the time that trump wrote that wonderful secret weird birthday letter with the picture of the nude woman and michael wolf believes that the quote unquote wonderful secret that trump was alluding to there was the shared girlfriend just to give you a sense of just how close that relationship apparently was and how they would sort of trade girls back and forth or share girls like they were objects or articles of clothing so you know that's part of why yeah the language of well he stole her from me is particularly disturbing and frankly disgusting.

[Sagar]

In this context and jeffrey obviously a very troubled and tragic life she said she didn't she basically said she had no knowledge of trump doing anything wrong that's the evidence that or that's the sort of storyline that is now obviously being played out in real time as people try to piece together some of these puzzled to piece together some of these puzzle pieces that we're getting just from trump's own comments let's put a three on the screen this is reporting on maxwell's conditions laid out by her attorneys for testifying she wants a grant of formal immunity the interview can't happen at the correctional facility where she's serving her sentence to prepare adequately for any congressional deposition and to ensure accuracy and fairness they say we would require the committee's questions in advance surprise questioning would be both inappropriate and unproductive the interview would be scheduled qu only after the resolution of her supreme court petition and her forthcoming habeas petition so that's if she were to speak with members of.

[Krystal]

Congress and questions in advance isn't that.

[Sagar]

Interesting yeah you know and chris i think they can probably predict most of the questions congress might have at this point they don't really even need that to be honest a four this is reporting from the guardian back in twenty twenty two that ghislaine maxwell had been moved to a low security prison in florida just a sort of detail about how maxw has been treated that i think is important crystal because right now we talked about this last week i think it was someone on newsmax referred to maxwell as potentially a victim and it's possible greg kelly yeah greg kelly yeah it's possible that we're sort of on the cusp of a weird rehabilitation of ghislaine maxwell as people on the right well let's say as the trump administration tries to coax her into cooperating or not cooperating she obviously spent two days with deputy attorney general todd blanche last week we saw her carrying boxes of information in and out of that so is she going to cooperate against potentially trump enemies is she going to cooperate in a way that exonerates donald trump these are the big questions that we have going forward of course in.

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[Krystal]

I think the detail about her being moved to this you know lower security more cushy kind of a prison situation not the federal person is ever you know entirely comfortable for people but i think it's important too because it reflects some echoes of the way that jeffrey epstein was treated when he was in county prison down in palm beach after securing that sweetheart deal he only had to be in the prison cell at night there's reporting that alleges he continues to continue to molest underage girls even while he served out his prison sentence which was shortened from i believe eighteen months down to something like thirteen months you know after he serves the thirteen months then he's just you know able to be at his house supposedly supposed to be on you know house arrest but there's video of him going to the airport and doing whatever the hell he wanted to do so you know i think that's part of why it's eyebrow raising ghislaine maxwell getting moved into cashier circumstances as well given that you know the heinousness of the crimes of which she is accused let alone the crime she was actually convicted of and that's the other piece here too is we know that the government did not go to trial with nearly all of the evidence or any sort of an attempt to truly expose the extent of this pedophile ring we know that they went with you know very narrow allegations just enough to make sure they could secure a conviction but she's she's not in there for life she's in there for for twenty years and it's very possible that she ends up not serving all of that time even because you've got her appeal to the supreme court which the government can decide they're not gonna contest and she says hey i was part of that sweetheart deal i was one of those co conspirators and actually i believe she was one of the ones that was actually named in that sweetheart deal so hey we had a deal a deal's a deal what are you doing donald trump going back on this i know you're the deal man that's what her lawyers say so government could decide just not to fight at the supreme court or you could end up with some sort of a pardon in exchange for some sort of limited hangout testimony that effectively exonerates trump and i think you know michael wolf floated this i think this is probably correct that meeting with todd blanche was both to proffer like well here's what i got on these other guys and here's what i got on you and so is it more painful for this information i have on you donald trump to come out or is it more painful you know to take the political hit of pardoning a convicted sex criminal who is by all accounts you know a monster who actually deserves to spend the rest of her life in prison not just twenty.

[Sagar]

Years yeah i mean a couple of things that people forget one is that ghislaine maxwell is accused by many of the women of actually participating not just grooming right she gets thought of as this sort of caricature grooming type and she definitely was doing all of that but in addition she is accused also of participating in the abuse in the sexual abuse of women so on top of that as well the other thing i wanted to mention is the supreme court appeal is really serious because that sweet i went back and was reading maxwell's suits and reading her appeal it actually is really serious because of how terrible that sweetheart deal was in florida years ago now that's how bad the deal was is that she has a case right now because it was so sweeping in its grants of immunity now i don't know how it's going to turn out but it's obviously not a sort of joke appeal that's going to get brushed aside she really was seriously probably protected so we'll see going forward i mean obviously a lot has changed since the deal was made in florida all those years ago but man crystal if that's successful at the supreme court it's just unbelievable and maybe that actually contributes to the government's position here as they speak with her as ag blanche speaks with her maybe they're taking seriously the threat that she gets out on appeal and they're looking to keep her locked up on some lower charge and part of a deal there's just all kinds of funny business that could be happening behind the scenes here and we really have no idea what's going on blanche has said he'll let us know when it's appropriate and that is just that we know the government just had two days of conversations with ghislaine maxwell it would be good to get that information sooner rather than later but yeah.

[Krystal]

I mean and anyone who's counting at this point on the federal government like exposing the truth about the like i'm sorry that's not it's not it's not happening it's not happening right because let's say i mean the ghislaine testimony obviously is a joke because she's self interested she wants a pardon so she has no her incentive is to put forward whatever information is convenient for this particular administration and i think you know at this point the two biggest questions are what are the implications for trump like in what ways was trump involved and number two the intel ties we're not getting that from this administration that ship has sailed and whatever information they put out at this point there's you couldn't trust that it would be a complete reflection of what was going on whatsoever so it really is left to journalists to try to dig it's left to whistleblowers from within you know the government who want to expose what is really going on here because certainly you're not getting it from trump cash dan bongino pam bondi ghislaine maxwell not happening at.

[Sagar]

This point yeah it's not going to be i really like how you said that it's not going to be a complete picture i mean to save their own asses let's put a five on the screen they may put out drips and drabs so this is polling this is new cbsu gov polling that shows trump's approval rating among younger voters so this is eighteen to twenty nine year olds absolutely cratering it's down twenty seven points and one of the interesting things to take a look at here is that he actually was above water with younger voters when he took office so as of february he had fifty five percent approval that is now down to twenty eight percent approval with eighteen to twenty nine year olds and crystal it doesn't take a time machine to reflect on how powerfully republicans were celebrating those numbers just a couple of months ago this was seen as the kind of key that unlocked the future of the republican party what happened in november and then as trump took office and it felt like kind of the cultural wind was at his back to republicans that there had been a vibe shift he you have a republican president with fifty five percent approval ratings for people voters under the age of thirty very unusual and felt like a new era for republicans and all of that has all those gains have been erased for republicans now to be clear this was this dip had been happening steadily since he took office so it was going down you know basically just on a if you look at the graph it's it's not like a sudden jump in any way in his disapproval and or a dip in his approval but i can't imagine that this is going to help those numbers a month from now crystal it could be the bleeding could be.

[Krystal]

Even worse yeah i think that's right and you know eighteen to twenty nine year olds zoomers i think that's entirely zoomer cohort there they're up for grabs you know they're they're not die hard democrats by and large they're not die hard republicans by and large you know the and i always thought the appeal with trump was limited to trump not necessarily to the broader republican party because he is this sort of singular cultural figure and so they're up for grabs and i think they like most of the country it's also a real danger that with the incredible failings and disappointments of both of these political parties that there is a real slide just into nihilism where you know they i think there's a danger they sort of give up on the possibility of politics electoral politics delivering for them whatsoever which is how you end up with this sense of like voting just on vibe when you don't believe that it really matters for your material condition which party is in power then you just vote for whoever seems like cooler is like pissing off the people that you want to piss off so yeah i think it's i think it's very i think it's very interesting important and relevant the shift among young voters and then we're going to talk later in the show about how enthusiastic young voters are about zoron and young men in particular he's winning young men in these polls by like he's getting like eighty five percent of young men in new york city so again it just shows you the anti establishment the the the desire for change for true change and the desire for you know true sort of anti establishment politics among a younger generation that is being shut out of you know sort of normal trajectories to basic prosperity in this current status quo well in new.

[Sagar]

York city is obviously also one of the places that republicans are really excited to see a change among anti est establishment younger voters voters from different minority groups and now i bet there are some trump zoron voters in fact actually when we talked to zoron in at this point it was november i think it was later in november early december he had just been out on the streets talking like aoc had done after the election to people who voted for trump who may be up for grabs for him and i don't think it's crazy to imagine that he snatched some of them crystal at all yeah no.

[Krystal]

Not at all and i have to say and this does obviously connect to epstein you know israel is becoming a real lightning rod sort of litmus test among these types of voters because it stands in for are you an independent person do you have principles are you willing to go up against entrenched interests and so if you're toeing the aipac line on israel you are automatically going to be greeted with skepticism from the vast majority of young unaffiliated voters and so you know i think we see that it's certainly in the democratic part but we really see that becoming an important signaling and dividing line within the american electorate in a way that i think politicians haven't wrapped their head around because if you ask people what's your number one issue very few people are going to say israel palestine but i i think it's become this sort of like like litmus test gatekeeping issue where if you can't get past that hurdle of showings you have some level of independence principle and just like basic morality then people are not really going to hear you on whatever is the rest of what you're trying to sell them.

[Sagar]

You know the way you just put that i think applies almost exactly to epstein because it's like it is a litmus test question for people who followed it closely which is in a lot of cases like the younger cohort because a lot of these documentaries i mean everybody cares about this but nobody's going to say that it's their top issue that they're voting on just like you mentioned crystal in that case but it is sort of a key vibe litmus test if you're being and this is it may sound ridiculous to people like us who are cynical but but it is that type of test as to whether you are being authentic whether you're being genuine if you can't come to the table and open up about epstein and this was i think for cash patel and dan bongino and others on the right who are now having to face what the administration is actually doing even pam bondi they understood that looking like you cared about the epstein case and by the way i think they did until they got into government i don't know about pam bondi but i think dan bongino and cash patel they were ready to expose the deep state and went into the deep state and realized that that's a little bit harder than it seems because some of your own people are going to be implicated there's no question about it and they sort of understood that because it's a litmus test you can get out ahead of it and pass with flying colors by saying i'm getting to the bottom of this and then for that to be kind of baked into the anti est establishment cake which the epstein case absolutely was and to fail the litmus test is just i think it's devastating to and i'm not saying this in a goofy way i think it's devastating to the vibes like it's devastating to the cultural momentum that republicans thought that they had and again like cynically i think both of us would have predicted that was never going to actually last but you are going to see i think you are going to see some information be released from the trump administration that is described as or framed as revelatory and framed as solving the case and revealing new details and being transparent in the name of full disclosure and all of that but at this point chris i think it's pretty clear there's no benefit of the doubt whatsoever this is not going to be you can't trust that any of it's complete they've lost it it started with the binders now there's the there's the flip flops and we're going to get to the video actually with nick bryant as well because there's new details on that front.

[Krystal]

Yeah and just really quickly last thing before we get to nick just to clearly draw out the connection i was claiming between you know the issue of israel and the issue of epstein people are noticing that the in the influencer world the people who are most in the like nothing to see here let's move on camp are also some of the biggest israel defenders and obviously you have the epstein mossad connection so so they're they are related they are linked issues and so i don't think it's a surprise that in you know anti establishment circles which is a broad swath of american society at this point that these two things are connected and both of them serve as these sort of litmus tests of whether you are honest truthful principled you know and not not captured by entrenched interests that are going to keep you from truly you know serving people and doing what you claim that you're there to do well and.

[Sagar]

I think it's the other way around as well in that that some of the staunchest defenders of israel have said okay the people asking questions about jeffrey epstein are also the staunchest opponents of israel so i no longer care about the epstein case or this is all sort of the epstein case is just smoke and mirrors which is also a really unfortunate situation for everybody who cares about getting to the bottom of this case and understanding exactly i mean first of all getting justice for the victims and understanding the way that our government and our foreign policy actually works yeah.

[Krystal]

That'S right all right let's go ahead.

[Sagar]

And bring in nick bryant now to help us break down the story further.

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[Wallace]

Chumba casino no purchase necessary vgw group void where prohibited by law twenty one plus terms and conditions apply well crystal.

[Sagar]

And i are pleased now to be joined by nick bryant author activist you can head over to epstein justice to find information on nick's nonprofit you can buy his books as well there'll be links in the descriptions nick thank you so much for being here it's great to be with you can you actually start just by telling us about epstein justice the nonprofit that you run and all of the work that you guys.

[Wallace]

Are doing i wrote a book about a child trafficking network i started researching in two thousand two two thousand three and it was epstein before there was epstein and publishers and editors really didn't want to contend with it i would i would pitch them and then i could see the cognitive dissonance playing out right before me they would think to themselves this is a really horrible story i need to help nick bryant or i can just write nick bryant off as crazy and have a nice meal with my family tonight so i worked seven years on that book and i went as deep into that type of a realm as someone can go i mean i talked to black male photographers and other people that generally wouldn't give interviews and i couldn't get the book published in new york city where i live i live in the mecca of publishing about four blocks away from times square i live in the heart of the insanity but i could not get the book published here so i finally got it published by a small press on the west coast in two thousand nine twenty ten and in the interim i had become an activist regarding anti child trafficking i'd spoken at a lot of conferences the national center on sexual exploitation has an international summit every year and i've spoken at three of those and i've spoken at a lot of conferences like i really got involved in this particular subject and then i was reading about someone named jeffrey epstein in twenty eleven and he seemed to have an insatiable appetite to molest underage girls but then i also saw that a grand jury had said that he hadn't molested a single child and that was the exact same thing with the book that i wrote there were two very corrupt grand juries that said said not a single child was molested like the grand jury that looked into jeffrey epstein said that not a single child was molested and i don't know if your audience is familiar with how grand juries work but a special prosecutor is chosen to oversee a grand jury and grand jurors are just citizens that have shown up for jury duty have been found to a grand jury and the special prosecutor is solely responsible for calling the witnesses and showing the grand jurors exhibits and of evidence and there was a new york supreme court judge that said grand jurors have so much special prosecutors have grand jurors special prosecutors have so much power over grand jurors that they could get them to indict a ham sandwich so i saw that a ham sandwich was indicted in florida and then i went down there and ultimately went down there in twenty twelve.

[Krystal]

And so before the infamous influencer binder moment from pan bondi where they claimed oh this is the epstein files phase one and they claim to be releasing all of this new information you actually had published even more of that information you were the first person to put out the epstein black book in fact i think it's fair to say that you are the person journalists or non journalist government agency or you know anyone on the planet who has exposed the most information about jeffrey epstein so can you take us back and talk to us about his black book what it contained and what you take to be the import of that and what it exposes about the way that he operated.

[Wallace]

Well actually i was the first guy to publish the flight logs too and when i was in florida twenty twenty twelve investigating this i do my thing i was knocking on doors talking to people making calls and then i had a fortuitous experience where i was able to acquire the black book and how the black book came into being as far as me being able to access it alfredo rodriguez jeffrey epstein's house manager stole it it and he was trying to sell it to one of the attorneys that were representing epstein victims and he was trying to sell it for fifty thousand dollars and he called it the grail and the attorney called the fbi the fbi did a sting and then attorneys for epstein ultimately got the black or attorneys for the victims ultimately got the black book and that's how i got it but i can remember the day that i got it i was staying near naples and and most of my beat at that point was fort lauderdale miami so i woke up really early one morning lawyers generally like to have meetings early in the morning so i wasn't on too much sleep and i drove there and then he handed me the black book and i just went like whoa and then i went to a dunkin donuts and had a couple cups of coffee and looked through it all and i was i was really stunned but what was really edifying to me and i think that this is i might have been the first journalist to know this is there's well over one hundred victims in the black book well over one hundred victims and i started calling them and most of them did not want to talk to me which i understand i've taken on this topic before and a lot of victims just don't want to talk because they've been so badly burned but i did talk to a few of them and they talked about being flown around and they talked about an island and at that point i realized that epstein was running a nationwide pedophile network and that he had an island where he would fly girls and i came back to new york city in twenty twelve and again editors and publishers really weren't enthusiastic about that information.

[Sagar]

And in your experience i mean there's that famous video i think that project veritas got of amy robach back in the day saying they killed her epstein story she had it all in your experience nick why what obstacles have you noticed i mean everyone has a million theories on this but what do people tell you what did people tell you back then when you were trying to get this information out.

[Wallace]

They provided a number of disingenuous responses like it was too old i mean when one editor told me it was too old when like a month later they published an article on the revolutionary war so obviously you know but they they just didn't want to touch it it was radioactive and because i was the fountainhead of it they looked up upon me as a radioactive and if you look at how the media has covered epstein they've been good at digging up salacious dirt on jeffrey epstein and his co conspirators but i'm not aware of one major media outlet that has called for justice because so many little girls were molested by the machine that jeffrey epstein and glenn maxwell built and why don't we have the outrage in the media i mean why don't we have people in the media demanding that there be a congressional investigation i just.

[Krystal]

Think that that's bizarre yeah let's put a seven up on the screen this is excuse me with regard to this video that was released you know when the department of justice under trump puts out this two page memo saying nothing to see here case closed jeffrey epstein killed himself and and they put out this video that purported to show jeffrey epstein cell that they claimed was completely unaltered well it turned out there was at least one minute that was missing from the video pam bondi gave an explanation of oh well it's just like that it always resets at that time cbs dug in and they found a number of instances where the video appeared to have been altered and edited and they also had a source that told them that's not true that there was this minute originally missing you know and that there's some weird reset every night that leads to this minute being missing so yeah i'm curious your reflections on the way that this trump administration has behaved and you know what you make of the extraordinary moves of oh we're going to release the files and here's these binders that expose nothing new and the client list is on our desk pam bondi says we're reviewing hundreds of thousands of hours of footage and that's why it's taking so long to all of a sudden there's nothing to see here we're closing the case here's a video everyone shut up and now trump is saying well there are files and my name may be in them but it was put in them by you know hillary clinton or brennan or comey or some other of my adversaries how are you making sense of all of.

[Wallace]

This well let me address the prison the bureau of prisons took an unbelievable amount of heat in twenty nineteen when jeffrey epstein apparently killed himself and if the bureau of prisons could have exonerated themselves with any kind of cogent footage they would have done it in a heartbeat but they didn't and then all of a sudden this footage just magically appears and what's interesting is dan bongino the number two guy at the fbi had a podcast where he was continually questioning epstein's whether epstein committed suicide or whether he was murdered and then he gets behind this ridiculous footage i mean i mean really really ridiculous footage and thinks jeffrey epstein murdered himself i've got no doubts now it's amazing what happens to people once they get a little power and they get into office and and i don't know why he's done a one hundred and eighty on that there's there's various explanations for it but he's definitely done a one hundred eighty and with the bondi debacle i can kind of walk you through it on on february twenty sixth bondi was on fox and she said i'm going to release the epstein files everything that you will ever need to know will be released and then a few days later she released some vials and it was essentially a nothing sandwich and then she declared that she'd been bamboozled by the fbi's new york field office i forgot.

[Krystal]

About that part yeah so we can.

[Wallace]

We can say that she was either lying on national television or she was inept and and i'm a charitable person so i'll just call her inept at least at this point that's what i was thinking and then she further tarnished her credibility by saying that yes there was tens of thousands of videos of epstein with children or child porn there are hundreds of victims but then she said and this this kind of amazes me she said that the fbi was looking through it for the first time and when epstein got arrested in july of twenty nineteen the very next morning the very next morning the fbi drilled through a safe now the safe was the size of a closet and his safe held many many disks there was a lot of child abuse material and business insider report new york times reported that there was a lot of discs and a lot of child abuse material and business insider reported that there were two that there were hard drives too so the fbi and whatever dark malignant corner of the government that deploys people like epstein they were looking at that stuff that day so for bondi to come out and say that the epstein safe was opened up and it hadn't been looked at for six years that was kind of her crescendo of mendacity i mean you really i mean because i followed this case so closely i've been able to kind of see these lies in real time but yeah she really got herself into a hole and and then the trump administration continued to get itself in a hole when they said it was a conspiracy by the democrats well what happened was it was actually a conspiracy started by the republicans jeffrey epstein got his sweetheart deal in two thousand seven and he got it via the department of justice the southern district florida alexandra acosta was the us attorney and he was going to panel a grand jury to look into the allegations about jeffrey epstein actually they had a list of thirty four victims i have that list but they knew of forty underage victims and what happened there was a major travesty of justice so alexander acosta vowed that he was going to exact justice and then what happened the the the department of justice then went radio silent and then they started negotiating with epstein's attorneys and kind of clandestinely i have some of their emails and then they cooked up a deal that was so dirty they didn't want anybody to look at it and i've got an email between epstein lawyer jay lefkowitz and us assistant us attorney annmarie vilafana where vilafana says there's one magistrate that will sign off on this and we have to get to him on monday so a magistrate is just and the judiciary is one notch below a judge and he can serve the functions of a judge so between the judges and the mass magistrates they found one magistrate that would sign off on it and then they sealed it so no one could take a look at it and attorneys representing epstein victims and palm beach post appealed the ceiling and judge kenneth mara of florida said that the document should be unsealed and then the department of justice appealed that and then finally the eleventh circuit said okay let's unseal it and what was unsealed was beyond egregious that document gave we talk about epstein's sweetheart deal but actually that document gave blanket immunity to all of his co conspirators all of them and and it also trampled on the victim crimes rights act which is it's a federal law and if you're a victim of a crime you have to be apprised of the adjudication of your perpetrator and you get to confront your perpetrator and that was denied all the victims and that's another reason why they wanted to seal it and then to make sure that that didn't come back to bite them they had the state put epstein in a county jail for eighteen months and he did thirteen but he was allowed to go out during the day and molest children so that was all done under the bush administration when trump says it's a democratic conspiracy he seems to have forgotten who gave jeffrey epstein the sweetheart deal.

[Sagar]

So on that note let's roll a eight this is a point that was raised about trump and epstein on cnn want to get your reaction to this nick research shows.

[Wallace]

From investigative reporting from the miami herald that jeffrey epstein was actually still on the mar a lago membership logs up to two thousand seven okay so trump was still getting money from jeffrey epstein up till two thousand seven he was still jeffrey epstein was still paying for his membership at mar a lago according to the miami herald and that of course is a year after jeffrey epstein's arrest in florida in two thousand six so despite so if he kicked him.

[Sagar]

Out for being a creep yes that.

[Krystal]

Would have even been a year after that would have been established through a.

[Sagar]

Legal suit correct and so nick just yesterday trump seemingly confirmed that jeffrey epstein in trump's words quote unquote stole virginia jaffre from him at mar a lago that the contention seemed to be that epstein was kicked out because he had been poaching trump's employees like virginia jeffrey obviously a very young woman from mar a lago what more should people know about that type of connection between trump.

[Wallace]

And epstein there's two reasons why jeffrey epstein and donald trump got divorced one is that trump or epstein was poaching young girls at mar a lago or one girl and then the other one is the fill is the real estate deal i mean a lot of people seem to put their chips on the real estate deal instead of mar a lago virginia go free was i knew virginia and we become friends and that's a that's a very sad story but people that are sexually trafficked as children their suicide rate is three times higher than the general population but virginia was working at mar a lago she was fifteen years old and she was working in the spa her goal was to be a therapeutic masseuse and that's where maxwell got her so it wasn't epstein that was the one who conscripted virginia it was it was actually maxwell what.

[Krystal]

Else do we know about the trump epstein relationship and how close it was let me actually play for you i think this is a six guys michael wolf is one of the the you know few journalists who spent a lot of time with epstein he's got a lot of recordings of epstein he makes makes a lot of claims about you know their relationships let me play a little bit of what he said about these photos that he he says he was shown of donald trump with young girls let's go ahead and take a.

[Michael Wolff]

Listen to this at one point after trump had been elected and i was sitting talking to epstein and he said wait a minute i gotta show you something and then he went into his safe and he came out with with with with photographs they were they were polaroids i i think and and he kind of kind of they were he kind of spread them out like playing cards and it was trump i mean i think there were a dozen of them and and it was trump with girls of an uncertain age at epstein's palm beach house where all of the things that he would ultimately be accused of took place and i remember very vividly three of them there are two in which trump is the girls topless girls are sitting on trump's lap and then a third in which he has a stain on the front of his pants and the girls are kind of kind of pointing at it sort of bent over laughing you know cover you know you know covering their mouths exactly and pointing three or four girls and those are the ones i specifically remember it's certainly not unlikely that they were in the safe when the fbi came in after his arrest and took everything from from the house how much credence.

[Krystal]

Do you give to those allegations and what can we say for sure about the nature of the relationship between trump.

[Wallace]

And epstein trump and epstein were best of friends they did have that falling out we don't know exactly why they had the falling out there's there's conflicting stories about that but what i know that wolf has said that before about the pictures of topless girls on donald trump's lap and i don't know what to make of that i mean he seems like an honest person so and what's really troubling to me is that the fbi and department of justice know exactly what was taken out of that safe because they took a lot of the safe and there was that crazy document that they came out with on july sixth that said there was there was a couple of things i agreed with that there were over three hundred gigabytes of child exploitation material and that there were over a thousand victims i do agree with those two things i i agree that jeffrey epstein had a huge cache of child abuse material and i agree that there are well over a thousand victims but then that strange document and no one signed it it had the logo of the department of justice and fb no one no one was going to take a fall for that document so nobody signed it but then it said that donald or that jeffrey epstein acted alone by himself that he didn't pander girls i mean there's so much evidence about perpetrators and pimps in the epstein network that it's an overkill actually and that he didn't blackmail anyone so so that document was really horrible because the best thing that you can say to someone who's been sexually abused as a child or someone who's been sexually assaulted is i believe you the worst thing that you can say to someone that's been trafficked as a child or sexually assaulted is i don't believe you and the trump administration was with that document the trump administration was saying i don't believe you to hundreds of victims and that's really troubling that's.

[Sagar]

Really troubling so i have a sort of strange question nick and credit to brianna joy gray who did a good interview of whitney webb the other day but they mentioned whitney mentioned something quite interesting which is around the time that hulk hogan the recently deceased hulk hogan started suing gawker for the sex tape which we now know was bankrolled by peter thiel that lawsuit was bankrolled by peter thiel who had been outed by gawker that's actually around the time that your little black book story was published by gawker and so the connection there is somewhat interesting i wanted to get there are all kinds of connections that could be absolutely nothing in this case or could be compelling but what is your take on since you were the one who published the story have you ever heard anything since that there might be that thiel may have been irked about that reporting no thiel who's a.

[Wallace]

Natural born fascist was irked about gawker outing him he had initiated that lawsuit before i wrote wrote okay my article on gawker and released the black book so got it there isn't a correlation.

[Sagar]

There okay that's good to know i.

[Krystal]

Have one last question for you which is you know you've you've studied not only you know as a journalist not only have you studied this case and this pedophile ring which obviously you know involves many elites in america and around the world you've studied the history of other pedophile rings of blackmail in the country and i wonder what you've been able to dig up or ascertain with regard to potential intelligence ties and sometimes you know that aspect of this is framed as this like really wild conspiracy which is why i think your work is so important exposing that you know kompromat is actually par for the course for the cia for mossad for my six and it would not be some wild insane thing to imagine that if he does have this compromising material on powerful people that there would be numerous intel agencies who would be very interested in leveraging that people ask me this.

[Wallace]

All the time and they say jeffrey epstein is working with the mossad and and i say jeffrey epstein very well might have been working with mossad but i believe that there's no way the cia is going to let the mossad compromise american politicians on american soil without getting a cut of that intelligence i just don't think it's going to happen i think the dark side of the cia and the dark side of the mossad are kind of like the gambino family and the genovese crime family they work together and i also wrote a book called confessions of a dc the politics of sex lies in blackmail and i co authored it with henry vincent and he ran the largest gay escort service that's ever been uncovered in dc and the cia cia assets were using his escorts to out closeted politicians and we name a number of them in the book so blackmail or ka permat is as old as our republic there was a muckraking journalist that came across a story of alexander hamilton having an affair with a married twenty three year old and her husband was blackmailing alexander hamilton and then the muckraker wrote a story about hamilton's woes and then and jefferson and hamilton had a lot of antipathy towards each other and the muckraking journalists thought that jefferson would give him an appointment in his administration because he helped scully hamilton's and what happened there was he did not jefferson didn't like the guy in his administration and then he wrote a book or article or some articles about jefferson having sex with one of his slaves sally hemings which dna has shown to be the case so kompromat is as old as our republic and there are a lot of our politicians that are compromised mike johnson last week he adjourned congress early so it couldn't vote on investigating a child abuse network i mean what's that about that's very strange and he's got and i did some research into him i wrote an article about him he's got this software called covenant eyes that he and his seventeen year old son have and it enables them to keep track of their pornography consumption which i thought was very strange and extremely cringeworthy so why is mike johnson holding this up the decent thing to do would to investigate jeffrey epstein and the child molesters but because blackmail is so integral to our system and johnson might even be blackmailed or someone whose blackmail is putting pressure on him that's why our system is so dirty and there's republicans and democrats that are compromised they're both i mean this is a partisan effort yeah.

[Krystal]

Well nick bryan thank you so much first of all for your work and again everybody go to epsteinjustice dot com to support your work there and thank you so much for joining us this.

[Wallace]

Morning thank you can i just add one thing of course the centers for disease control did a study and found that twenty five percent of underage girls in america and five percent of underage boys in america have been molested now people in the field think that that's slightly conservative for underage girls and very conservative for underage boys but if you just go with the cdc numbers you've got over fifty million americans that have been molested when they were underage and the department of health and human services commissioned a study that found that two hundred forty thousand to three hundred twenty five thousand and women and children were sexually trafficked in the united states every year so so we're talking about millions of people and according to the federal human trafficking report of twenty twenty three the last one that we can have that we have access to six hundred sixty four people were charged with child trafficking in the united states so if we go with the department of health and human services lowest number two hundred forty thousand six hundred and sixty four people are being prosecuted and that's one place where our society really really has to do a lot of work because only a fraction of one percent and if we allow the justice department to be unresponsive to victims in the epstein case a proven trafficking case that sends a message to millions of victims in this country that they have no voice and no hope for just justice i.

[Krystal]

Think that's so important to underscore and i think it's also a big part of why this case has been so important to so many people and getting justice for these victims has been so.

[Sagar]

Important that's right thank you nick so.

[Wallace]

Much hey have a great day in.

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[Krystal]

So obviously guys we've been closely covering the famine and starvation that is unfolding at the hands of the israelis in the gaza strip and there's been an effort to erase erase those horrific conditions by israel's defenders we covered some of that yesterday president himself though saying no it's real the hunger is real let's take a listen to that first.

[Donald Trump]

Lady you mentioned a couple of weeks ago her role in talking to you about the war in ukraine perhaps a big part of your evolution in thinking have you discussed the crisis in gaza and the terror i have achieved this she thinks it's terrible and she sees the same pictures that you see and that we all see and i think everybody unless they're pretty cold hearted or worse than that nuts there's nothing you can say other than it's terrible when you see the kids and those are kids you know whether they talk starvation or not those are kids that are starving that's i mean they are starving starving and you see the mothers they love them so much there's just nothing they seem to be able to do they got to get them food so.

[Krystal]

He acknowledges the starvation of course the most critical part that's left out of that emily is the culpability which is both israel and arse and so you know he claims he wants to get eight in we also have reporting that he's done absolutely nothing to pressure netanyahu on any point and indeed has told him numerous occasions do what you got to do and you know has has backed this ethnic cleansing plan that is being implemented right now of which the starvation is a key component we had.

[Sagar]

The wall street journal actually did a graphic yesterday of food getting into gaza and you can see under donald trump's watch over the last six months that this is a problem particularly for his administration as harsh as we were on the biden administration these problems are happening under donald trump's watch now even as last summer he criticized netanyahu for his quote unquote public relations problem in this case so right now if donald trump does not want to see these images coming out of gaza even as journalists aren't allowed into gaza that's another important point then he actually has a lot of power to pressure benjamin netanyahu to make it stop so that's the test that's been failed under the trump administration recently but it's the test that's continuing to run that he can and he can prove us wrong he can change.

[Krystal]

Course yeah no doubt about it i think it's worth reminding people that we did have a ceasefire deal you know in the terms of which were sort of originally laid out by the biden administration the trump administration is able to secure it and netanyahu was always saying when he agreed to that deal well we're not going to go past phase one basically we're going to have a pause we're going to regroup and then we're going to go right back to war death destruction starvation the only person who could have made sure that that deal was actually enforced and a ceasefire to this genocide was actually you know took hold and we moved to something other than genocide ethnic cleansing starvation etcetera was donald trump and instead he greenlit the israelis backing out of that deal blowing it up and going right back to you know effectuating what we're seeing right now it seems seems emily like there's been and we've we've covered some of this before but it does seem like there's been a real break in the culture and you hear voices you know people who are willing to speak out and speak out more stridently one of those people is jon stewart who had on peter beinart to talk about what was unfolding in gaza and it's not that jon stewart hasn't been critical at all before but i think some of the strength of his language here was notable so let's take a listen.

[Wallace]

The at that i feel like i'm watching something that is so self evidently inhumane and horrific and to be told that i have to shut up because i risk the jewish state by speaking out i would say the opposite i think not i think they're putting the likelihood of a surviving jewish state much more at risk risk with this type of action i think they're the ones that are being anti if you want to define netanyahu with the definition of anti semitism would probably have to bomb himself but there's an urgency about it now because like right now in this situation we can't be like but jews are not getting along with other jews like that's not the important thing how is the world not stepping in and stopping this atrocity i don't understand this in any way shape or form it's.

[Krystal]

Boggling my mind it's worse than just not stepping in it's our weapons that are enforcing this siege that is enforcing.

[Wallace]

This mass starvation it's a siege it's a military siege yes that we are.

[Krystal]

Deeply complicit in it could not happen without us and you know jon stewart's a liberal peter beinar's a liberal i think that's part of why you know peter beinart is accepted in these sort of like mainstream liberal spaces which is i think part of why he's been such an important voice and there's a portion of this interview where you know jon stewart says something like basically like listen i don't know every single in and out of what's happened over all of these many years but i know what i'm seeing and i have a moral clarity around it and i think that part is very important because is that has previously been the way that liberals have been sort of shut down it's very easy to say like you don't it's com it's complicated and you just don't understand all the ins and the outs and you need to study eight you know history for eighteen years before you can dare have a an opinion on this and i just think at this point emily that has been so thoroughly rejected because people go no i can see what's happening and it's wrong wrong and i don't need to know what happened in you know june of nineteen forty eight or whatever to understand that bombing and murdering children and starving them to death and denying baby formula and medicine and turning the entire gaza strip into rubble i don't need to know everything about this to know that that thing that i'm seeing right now is wrong it actually reminds me of the tim dillon bit on this where he's talking about miss rachel and he's like you know when i see children being bombed i think huh and i read a book and i get to the end and somewhere in that book i'm gonna learn why these children are being bombed and he's obviously mocking the idea that there is some like nuanced historical perspective on why it's acceptable to starve infant babies to death and bomb them in their tents so i.

[Sagar]

Think when the history of the post october seventh foreign policy is written last week will have to be pinpointed as the turning point like i think you're exactly crystal that something changed last week and i know people like yourself who've been covering this very closely since october seventh would say too little too late at this point for a lot of people who came around last week but i guess you probably wouldn't say it exactly like that crystal because i'm sure everyone appreciates people coming and recognizing what's happening but it just seemed like last week the images that were flooding everybody's social media were what changed it sort of created a gave people permission culturally to feel like it was okay is that your read on it because so much of this is from the left i know we have a pod save clip but we're about to roll to me that's what it seemed is that it started to become acceptable in fact unacceptable on the left this was i think one of our takeaways from the alyssa slotkin interview you did yesterday she was not running at all from condemning she said she didn't want to use the word genocide or at least that she was ambivalent on the word genocide but she was forcefully condemning what had happened in the last week almost eagerly condemning what had happened in the last week i think there's democrats now realizing it's actually politically advantageous to lean into condemnations of what's happening right now and that's to me one of the big changes and i think it came from a lot of the images flooding people's social media last week and it created maybe a permission structure i don't know what do you make of that yeah.

[Krystal]

I think that's right let me put alyssa slotkin to the side for a second and get back to that i think when babies are being starved to death there's no oh they're hamas there's no hamas was hiding under the baby formula like there's just no no way of excusing it mass starvation all two million or however many people are left in the gaza strip are being starved and they every one hundred percent of them are at some level of hunger and famine conditions and that is not you know an accident of nature the way the western media you know often portrays it of like hunger rises as if that just came out of nowhere you only get to one hundred percent famine through man made intentional actions over many months by the way and so it just becomes undeniable there's no cover story and then when you see these images of these skeletal babies and children it evokes the worst horrors from the history books that you can possibly imagine.

[Sagar]

Oh but crystal they have pre existing.

[Krystal]

Conditions oh right so then it's fine if we kill them it's fine if they starve to death if they have pre existing conditions i mean that's just so utterly grotesque it's like okay so not only are you keeping out the food but yes thank you for reminding us that you're also keeping out the medicine to you know to protect and to be able to help children the elderly everybody who is there and so i think that you know that is part of why you're seeing this turning point in terms of the rhetoric right now in terms of it's one thing if you are a commentator and i think it's not enough to say okay now things are bad i think you need to make amends i think you need i think there has to be a god i got this wrong i really thought the israelis had good intentions having covered this so closely and you as well emily i don't know how you went all these many months without seeing this for what it was when you have israeli ministers announcing it publicly and the president of the united states announcing it publicly i don't know how you ignored that and so i do think there has to be be not just a oh now it's bad but a mea culpa about how you got it wrong and the way that you helped feed into propaganda and lies to enable what we see before our eyes right now if you are a person in power if you are a senator like lissa slotkin you didn't just it wasn't just your words it wasn't just the fact that you spent your time condemning protesters who were trying to protest this versus condemning you know the monsters who were murdering babies you took votes like you used your power to help effectuate this outcome and so what are you going to do now to make it right i mean you really it goes a lot more than further than you know oh i put on a tweet or you know i'm willing to come on and condemn them or say this is wrong but you know well i won't go so far as to call it ethnic cleansing and i won't go so far as to call it a genocide even if she was willing to call it a genocide it's like you voted for the weapons that went and did this and created this what are you going to do to make it right and so for me that was kind of the you know going into that interview that was the important question it remains for me the important question even as democrats start to realize slowly vastly belatedly the political writing on the wall about how incredibly damaging this has been to their political prospects and the political prospects of their politics in.

[Sagar]

The long term by the way just as you're saying that i'm thinking to the safety also of people if you're just purely from a cynical perspective if you are alyssa slotkin and i guess this isn't necessarily cynical but or categorically cynical but if you're alyssa slotkin the situation that has been created for the country that you've been defending for however long now the long term safety of the people there is that better now is that on a better trajectory is that what this was all for do you feel as though as though the future of israel has now been preserved because of what's happened over the course of this war i mean it just that question i think is going to haunt particularly democrats who were always wary kind of of netanyahu and likud but supported the war itself i mean there wasn't a lot of hesitancy in the republican party about netanyahu and likud obviously still among some people there isn't on the republican side so many people on the republican side so i just think that question for democrats who were wary of netanyahu is going to hang over their heads for a really long time and over their consciences as well yeah.

[Krystal]

No i agree with that i mean if your goal was to protect the jewish state and this is what jon stewart talks about you failed miserably i mean it sort of irritates me that that it always has to be framed in the context of like well what's good for the israelis and the palestinians themselves don't get to be you know full humans and they're just basic right to like live in dignity and have self determination that can never be the central discussion but that is i think the reality and the nature of american politics go ahead and then i wanted to throw to the pod save which i think is important well no i.

[Sagar]

Was just going to say i mean it obviously to me at least it goes hand in hand that if you have if you have peace in the region it's better for everyone and if you are not creating famine and destruction and rubble and as trump says cleaning you know swaths of land that people have died and fought for for decades then you are more likely no matter how difficult it is it's difficult nobody's saying it's easy but you're more likely to create a more peaceful and prosperous region of course it's just it's obvious.

[Krystal]

So yeah there's there's no military option here you know there's there's only you know your ability to leave live peacefully with your neighbors and you know the the idea that israel is like keeping even their own citizens safe let alone you know jewish people around the world is just utterly preposterous at this point the pod save guys have been pretty good on this issue and i think it's they're you know they come out of obama world and also i think just the fact that they're not on a mainstre network that there are online also creates you know different ecosystem that they're swimming in but they own their.

[Sagar]

Company don't they or they own yeah.

[Krystal]

They they do yeah and i mean i don't know all the financing structure and the ins and outs of that but they came out very strongly in favor hey you have to cut off all aid and we need to look at sanctioning israeli officials and we can't like whenever this ends we can't go back to what this relationship was before like this is over and done let's go ahead and take a listen that.

[Unknown Host 3]

And i don't think democratic candidates should take money from aipac or vote to fund military support for israel anymore like i really don't this government absolutely not and that especially includes i think the next democratic nominee for president things i want to see democrats at least calling for is cutting off military assistance to israel it's a rich country by the way they don't need our three billion a year and hands up right barack obama signed a ten year mou for three point three billion a year like so we are part of the problem here let's correct it i would like to see talk about sanctioning israeli government officials who use genocidal rhetoric or who talk about ethnic cleansing openly we should support a ceasefire resolution at the un we should demand that international press be allowed into the gaza strip to report on what's happening without an idf minder it's insane the press still can't go into gaza and cover what's happening and i also think like there has to be a total mindset change in the democratic party when the war ends we are not going back to the pre october seventh status quo because it's not where the party is it's not where the world is we're not going to shovel billions a year in military aid we're not going to veto every effort to recognize the palestinian state at the un we should not take money from aipac and like i will hold out hope for better political leadership in the us and in israel but we have to also recognize that the biden era hug bibi netanyahu strategy has to be thrown in the trash can for fucking ever netanyahu is a bad actor he's continuing a war for political purposes he bombs lebanon when he wants to he bombs iran when he wants to he bombs syria when he wants to this is not a partner we can count on this is not someone who is like leading to calm and stability in the region which should be a core interest like at this point cutting off military funding for a government government that is starving two million people and advertising how they're ethnically cleansing the palestinians seems like the least we can do especially.

[Wallace]

If we're going to head into a primary like table stakes is going to.

[Unknown Host 3]

Be no more military aid for israel so there will just will have to be a shift and i do think.

[Wallace]

That will mean putting far more pressure.

[Unknown Host 3]

On israel and that's what i think democrats want by the way that's what.

[Wallace]

The country wants and when you poll.

[Unknown Host 3]

Israelis they say they want a fucking ceasefire israelis want the hostages returned through.

[Wallace]

A negotiated settlement and by the way.

[Unknown Host 3]

That'S the way in which the vast.

[Wallace]

Majority of hostages who were returned were.

[Krystal]

Able to be returned and they are way more in line with where democrats are i mean there's like eight percent of democrats who have a favorable view of netanyahu and what's happening in israel right now i mean it's nearly unanimous and i think the eight percent that are like favorably inclined towards what's happening are all basically serving in the congress of the united states senate apparently yeah.

[Sagar]

Well i mean in in that clip too i think it' sand it's been going viral kind of pinging around the internet i think it's hopefully becoming clear to democrats that it is like whether they want it to be a different era or not the page has been turned and i do think crystal some of it from those guys i'm curious what your take is on this i do think some of that is a little bit cynical because they are so immersed in like they have a really popular podcast so they're kind of in the new media space and the new media space tends to be super anti establishment it's not all anti establishment but a lot of it is because frankly that's where a lot of younger americans are and when i say younger i mean like people under forty not just talking about like zoomers here and so i think you've seen them respond to what they've seen and it's taken them to that place but obviously they're calling for for policy consequences concrete policy consequences so maybe i'm being too cynical in.

[Krystal]

This case i mean i don't know exactly but i think that they i mean i don't know it seems pretty genuine to me i think that the difference is that they don't have these other competing pressures to keep them from saying what is like abundantly obvious to like anyone who's paying attention people want.

[Sagar]

Access to them if that makes sense right like they're not the ones dying to interview congress congressman right i mean.

[Krystal]

You know usually interviewing congressmen interesting oftentimes so you know when you're existing in this ecosystem it just it doesn't have to be your your number one priority and i do think that a lot of democrats still will want to go on with them just because they've established themselves as sort of like you know the democratic independent media central hub but yeah they you know i think they are an important signal of where the democratic base is and i don't think anything they said will be controversial among anyone outside of like the beltway basically what where they are is we're going to cover this with sauron like sixty seven percent of democrats in new york were like you're right we should arrest netanyahu if he comes to new york you are absolutely right about that some eighty percent or like it is a genocide i mean this is just consensus now among a lot of the public but certainly inside of the democratic base and the gulf between the democratic leadership and where the base is is not something that can persist and over time it won't persist the only question is whether or not that you know makes any sort of political difference for palestinians who are right now you know being starved and displaced and you know have having this genocide committed against them there were a couple other things we wanted to note quickly in this block first of all randy fine the most disgusting member of congress i think it's fair to say i think we could probably unanimously agree on that he said that palestinians should starve away he called his colleague ilhan omar a muslim terrorist he said gaza should be nuked he has gotten a republican primary opponent who is calling him out we could put this before up on the screen who's calling him out specifically on some of these things he says i do not support this is aaron baker is his opponent i do not support starving children i do not support punishing citizens for having the worst government in existence it's my goal to make you a one term congressman if you agree please consider supporting me to represent florida six i know nothing about this man he's a republican i'm sure i disagree with him on many things it is a very heavily republican district i don't know like r plus thirty two or something republican district there is no way that he's not better than randy fine no way support i don't know who he is support him he's got to be better than randy fine he could not possibly be worse the fact that he's willing to say you know what i don't support i don't actually support starving children that already puts him like miles head and shoulders above randy fine so that'll be an interesting one to watch play out because even though is this overwhelmingly republican district randy fine didn't win by that much the democrats vastly vastly vastly overperformed because he's just such a disgusting grotesque monstrous figure that even republican partisans were like i don't know about this guy.

[Sagar]

Yeah and he's already hitting randy fine on aipac so i'm on aaron baker's x right now so this is twelve hours ago people can go look it up but he seems to have gotten a lot of support in the last twenty four hours particularly since he went after randy fine on this issue and that's just interesting in and of itself you almost don't even need to say it the fact that you have a republican candidate in a deep red district saying what he's saying right now is fascinating and i would say as red as this district is it's one to watch because seems like it'll probably involve a whole lot of outside money in order to try and make a point a lot of these races become even if they if they're not super competitive it's going to be a republican seat no matter what they become proxy competitions to see in some sense it's almost not that useful because it'll be an outlier in terms of money that probably goes in if that's what happens for randy fine from groups like aipac and others but we'll see who ends up supporting aaron baker in this race against randy fine who's been called out fine has been called out by people like tucker carlson and others on the right in recent days so this is one.

[Krystal]

Watch for sure yeah and there was a whole flap apparently aipac took him down off of their list of endorsed candidates and people were wondering like oh did he go too far even for apac apac put out a statement saying no no we just haven't you know i don't know they said basically they're still behind him but i do wonder if you know when you've got this guy out there just saying these horrifically monstrous genocidal things like starve away if aipac doesn't find him particularly all that helpful to their cause it might be too out there even for them to really go to the mat to try to keep him in place i don't know maybe they do maybe they don't but that's just a question for me.

[Sagar]

He'S asking mike johnson whether he'll remove randy fine from the foreign affairs committee that's another wow sizzling hot post from aaron baker fifteen hours ago so that's a good question actually it's a good question for when they come back from august recess because when even aipac was taking a step back at least in the public realm from randy fine there you go it's a question for mike.

[Krystal]

Johnson johnson yeah one last thing just quickly that i really is very important that i wanted to get to chris malls who's the president of the amazon labor union who sagar and i have known for years at this point and you know interviewed him multiple times i've met him and spoken spoken with him in person he went on gaza aid flotilla that flotilla you know the israelis seized in international waters wildly illegal basically kidnapping them off of the ship with no right to do it and we can put b five up on the screen screen chris smalls in particular it appears was singled out for direct physical abuse the freedom flotilla coalition confirms that upon arrival in israeli custody us human rights defender chris smalls was physically assaulted by seven uniformed individuals they choked him they kicked him in the legs leaving visible signs of violence on his neck and back the freedom flotilla coalition wrote in a statement posted on instagram on tuesday morning so so this is an american citizen and they go on here they say when his lawyer met with him chris was surrounded by six members of israel's special police unit this level of force was not used against other abducted activists we condemn this violence against chris and demand accountability for the assault and discriminatory treatment that he faced smalls was the only black person on board the boat and he was one of twenty one members of the group who were detained so again chris smalls single that out for violent abuse at the hands of israelis obviously chris is not only an american citizen he is a labor leader amazon labor union is under the teamsters at this point you know sean o' brien has been cozying up to to trump as far as i know he hasn't put out any statement in support of chris smalls but this is disgusting and outrageous behavior from the israelis that deserves condemnation from every american certainly every american leader you know when american citizen is kidnapped and violently abused by our supposed ally there in the.

[Sagar]

Middle east hope chris is recovering and back to back to health awful story.

[Unknown Host 2]

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[Wallace]

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[Donald Trump]

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[Wallace]

Business introducing the godfather at champacasino dot com test your luck in the shadowy world of the godfather slots someday i will call upon you to do a service for me play the godfather now at champacasino dot com welcome to the family no purchase necessary vgw group void we're prohibited by law twenty one plus.

[Sagar]

Terms and conditions apply this is an i heart podcast.