7/9/25: Trump Shuts Down Epstein Question, Tucker Blasts Trump On Epstein, MAGA Journo Flips On Trump AG

Summary

Detailed Summary of "Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar" Episode Released on July 9, 2025

Podcast Information:

• Title: Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
• Hosts: Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti
• Publisher: iHeartPodcasts
• Episode Title: Trump Shuts Down Epstein Question, Tucker Blasts Trump On Epstein, MAGA Journo Flips On Trump AG

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Introduction

In this episode of Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar, the hosts delve deep into the ongoing controversies surrounding former President Donald Trump’s reactions to questions about Jeffrey Epstein. Joined by Liz Wheeler, host of The Liz Wheeler Show on BlazeTV, the discussion explores the implications of the Department of Justice's (DOJ) handling of the Epstein case, potential connections to intelligence agencies, and the broader impact on Trump's political base.

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Trump’s Response to Epstein Inquiries

[02:21 - 04:26]
The episode opens with a discussion about Trump's vehement attempts to deflect questions regarding Jeffrey Epstein during a Cabinet meeting. Saagar Enjeti remarks, "Donald Trump absolutely losing it after being asked about the coverup by his own administration." The hosts express skepticism about the administration's explanations, labeling them as "complete bullshit."

Notable Quote:

Saagar Enjeti: "My theory is that he probably knows that a lot of people who supported him are very, very upset about that."
— [09:13]

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DOJ’s Handling and Alleged Cover-Up

The hosts criticize Attorney General Pam Bondi's handling of the Epstein files, suggesting a deliberate obstruction in releasing critical information. They highlight inconsistencies in the DOJ’s statements, particularly regarding the existence of a client list and missing footage related to Epstein's death.

Key Points:

• Bondi claimed possession of the Epstein files but later retracted, stating there was "no client list" and denying any blackmail schemes.
• Allegations of missing footage from Epstein's jailhouse recordings, initially explained away as routine maintenance quirks.
• Reports from Julie K. Brown of the Miami Herald that key surveillance cameras were non-functional, contradicting initial DOJ statements.

Notable Quote:

Ryan Seacrest: "If they had definitive proof that he killed himself, don't you think they would have released it?"
— [38:34]

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Liz Wheeler’s Experience with the Epstein Files

Liz Wheeler shares her firsthand experience attending an exclusive White House briefing where she was presented with binders labeled "Phase One" of the Epstein files. She recounts how the initial presentation promised transparency but later revealed significant omissions and potential cover-ups by the DOJ.

Key Points:

• Wheeler was invited alongside other independent media personalities to receive the Epstein files from Pam Bondi.
• The binders provided lacked the "juicy" details many anticipated, leading to suspicions of withheld information.
• An unsigned memo emerged, asserting that no additional documents would be released, deepening mistrust in the administration's transparency.

Notable Quote:

Liz Wheeler: "The only explanation that I can reasonably conclude is that she got out over her skis, and that's the most generous term that I can think of."
— [56:10]

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Implications for Trump's Political Base

The discussion emphasizes that the handling of the Epstein case is a litmus test for Trump's commitment to justice, as perceived by his base. The perceived inaction and obfuscation by the DOJ reinforce feelings of distrust and disillusionment among supporters who prioritize accountability.

Key Points:

• The base’s demand for justice encompasses various grievances, including Russiagate, censorship, and politicized federal actions.
• Wheeler argues that the DOJ's failure to transparently address the Epstein case undermines Trump's stance against abuses of power.
• The inconsistency between Trump's promises to release Epstein files and his subsequent dismissive actions exacerbate tensions within his support base.

Notable Quote:

Saagar Enjeti: "We voted for President Trump because we want justice. We want justice for everything."
— [56:14]

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Elon Musk and Jared Bannon’s Theories

The hosts touch upon recent claims by Elon Musk alleging that Jared Bannon is implicated in the Epstein files. Saagar Enjeti discusses the credibility of these claims, referencing Michael Wolfe's assertions about Bannon's connections to Epstein. The conversation underscores the murky intersection between high-profile individuals and the Epstein case.

Key Points:

• Musk's statement that "Bannon is in the Epstein files" adds another layer of intrigue and speculation.
• Michael Wolfe’s reports suggest Bannon may possess tapes linking him to Epstein, though concrete evidence remains elusive.
• The hosts express doubt about the motives behind these allegations, pondering possible hidden agendas.

Notable Quote:

Saagar Enjeti: "It's a rather the most extraordinary coverups I have ever seen here."
— [14:10]

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Tariffs and Economic Policies

Briefly, the hosts segue into discussions about tariffs, notably referencing a letter to Japan and the subsequent increase in copper prices. Although not the primary focus, this segment touches upon economic tensions and policy shifts under Trump's administration.

Notable Quote:

Saagar Enjeti: "Now we're back to August 1st. Copper prices are up by 50%."
— [03:XX]

(Note: Timestamp [03:XX] is approximate due to transcript cut-off.)

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode wraps up with reflections on the pervasive mistrust in government institutions and the potential long-term ramifications of the Epstein case on American politics. The hosts advocate for continued scrutiny and accountability to restore faith in the system.

Notable Quote:

Liz Wheeler: "There is a lot of evidence that hasn't been published."
— [23:58]

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Key Takeaways

1. DOJ's Transparency Issues: The Department of Justice, led by Pam Bondi, faces serious criticism for its opaque handling of the Jeffrey Epstein files, leading to widespread distrust.
2. Impact on Trump’s Base: The administration's response to the Epstein case is seen as a critical factor influencing Trump's support base, emphasizing the demand for justice and accountability.
3. Media and Independent Reporting: Liz Wheeler’s involvement highlights the role of independent media in uncovering and challenging official narratives, despite facing pushback.
4. Conspiracy Theories and Intelligence Ties: Discussions around Elon Musk's claims and potential intelligence agency connections keep the Epstein saga enveloped in mystery and speculation.
5. Broader Political Implications: The Epstein case serves as a catalyst for broader conversations about government overreach, accountability, and the integrity of political institutions.

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Disclaimer: This summary is based on a provided transcript and aims to encapsulate the key discussions and viewpoints presented in the episode. For a comprehensive understanding, listening to the full episode is recommended.

Transcript

[Sagar Enjeti]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Liz Wheeler]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.

[Sagar Enjeti]

So if that is something that's important to you, Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows unedited ad free and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

[Ryan Seacrest]

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see [e-mail] Good morning everybody. Happy Wednesday. We have an amazing show for everybody today. Bro Show Ryan Grimm is actually no, I'm in the house. I'm in your house.

[Liz Wheeler]

Yeah, this is our house.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Thank you. Thank you very much for having me here on the program.

[Liz Wheeler]

It's not a cabin yeah, it is.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Not a main cabin where I previously was recording with Tucker Carlson. I didn't get to meet the dogs, unfortunately. But we had a very good time, Tucker and I, we talked a lot about Jeffrey Epstein and Israel. We'll have some clips of that later on in the show. But I'm very glad to be back here after a marathon journey from New England, beautiful state. We're gonna start off talking about Jeffrey Epstein. Of course, the major story in the news, Donald Trump absolutely losing it after being asked about the coverup by his own administration. We have a lot more details about how the government story not only doesn't add up, but is complete bullshit, I think is the polite way of saying it. We're gon some clips from my appearance on Tucker Carlson's show, but more importantly, we're gonna back it up from Ben Shapiro and others saying actually the government is telling the truth. Wonder what compelling interest they would have in saying that. Ryan, we're gonna talk with Liz Wheegler. I'm actually very excited for this. So first of all, love Liz used to go on her show all the time over a decade ago. But more importantly, for our purposes, Liz was present, Ryan, at the influencer briefing with Pam Bondi, where she was handed the Epstein files full of women. Binders full of baloney is the way that we're talking about it now. And what, interestingly about Liz is that she was there and now she's calling for Pam Bonnie to be fired and is very upset about being used in that photo opportunity. And for some of the lies that the Trump administration has propagated here, we're also gonna talk about Ukraine. Speaking of, you know, lies and other things propagated by the administration, Donald Trump has discovered a new strategy of sending more weapons to Ukraine to try and get Putin to negotiate. If only someone had TR before, right, Ryan? If only someone had tried it before and then run against it to say that they wouldn't do it. But we have a lot to say. We're gonna talk about tariffs. Crystal talked about this yesterday, but wow, that letter to Japan, that's something. That's maybe the kindest way of putting it. Donald Trump has changed the deadline. Now we're back to August 1st. Copper prices are up by 50%. Hope that's not a critical mineral.

[Liz Wheeler]

We don't need copper.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, I'm hoping the copper, of course, is not in any way integral to the US Supply chain. BB Met for the second time while he's in Washington with President Trump yesterday in negotiations over a ceasefire Ryan, you're gonna take the lead on this one. You're gonna explain to me everything going on. I know that Jeremy has done some excellent reporting over at Dropsite about Hamas and their response to the ceasefire, what some of the potential hangups are, et cetera. And then finally, we're gonna talk about Grok. For those who aren't aware, Grok is Twitter's or X. I apologize, I should say X is AI. You know, LLM, which is built into the platform. And couple of days ago, Elon Musk said Grok was too liberal. And in the span of about four days, that's all it took for it to quite literally go Nazi. Now, people may know I'm not one to immediately just call a spade a spade, but when you're praising Adolf Hitler.

[Liz Wheeler]

Yeah, I think we'd go ahead and.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Call this one talking about Jewish genetics. I think we could probably go with that. You think I'm exaggerating? Stick around for the segment and I will read it all for you. But let's go ahead and start with Jeffrey Epstein and what is happening here with Donald Trump. I mean, there's really just no way to describe it. One of the most insane responses here from Donald Trump immediately trying to shut down any questions over Jeffrey Epstein yesterday at a Cabinet meeting. Let's take a listen. Jeffrey Epstein left some lingering mysteries. One of the biggest ones is whether he ever worked for a American or foreign intelligence agency. The former Labor Secretary, who was Miami U.S. attorney Alex Kostvicki, allegedly said that he did work for an intelligence agency. So could you resolve whether or not he did? And also, could you say why there was a minute missing from the jailhouse tape on the night of the.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, sure.

[Ryan Seacrest]

If I. Could I just interrupt for a second? Sure.

[Liz Wheeler]

Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? This guy's been talked about for years. You're asking. We have Texas, we have this. We have all of the things. And are people still talking about this guy this creepy?

[Ryan Seacrest]

That is unbelievable.

[Liz Wheeler]

Do you want to waste the time and do you feel like answering?

[Sagar Enjeti]

I don't mind answering.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I mean, I can't believe you're asking.

[Liz Wheeler]

A question on Epstein at a time like this, where we're having some of the greatest success and also tragedy with.

[Ryan Seacrest]

What happened in Texas.

[Liz Wheeler]

It just seems like a desecration.

[Ryan Seacrest]

But you go ahead. It's a desecration. To ask the attorney General about Jeffrey Epstein after she released a literal lie from the administration covering up her own comments on the White House lawn where she said, I have the client list and now she said there's no client list and that there's no systematic blackmail campaign or anything about that. If anything, by the way, that's what an act of journalism should be. You know, you're asked, you have the attorney general, you're asking her an appropriate question, and just look there. Trump is anxious to shut this down. My theory is that he probably knows that a lot of people who supported him are very, very upset about that. I pointed my conversation with Tucker Carlson, if you're interested. But Ryan, I mean, Trump is doing himself no fault. Ryan talking about trying to shut this stuff down with the prevailing theory that by Elon Musk put forward. He's actually, quote, in the Epstein files, and that's part of the reason why it's not being released. But nonetheless, I mean, it's an extraordinary thing for our president to say after he literally said on the campaign trail, I will release those Epstein files. So what do you make of that?

[Liz Wheeler]

You could sort of see it coming, though. If you remember, there was one interview, you probably remember who did this one.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Oh, Fox News. Yeah.

[Liz Wheeler]

Where they said, hey, what about the JFK files and the Epstein files? And he said, you know what I'm going to do jfk. And he's like, you know what I'm going to do? RFK Senior. I'm going to do mlk. He threw in files that he wasn't even asked about. And then they're like, what about the Epstein ones? He's like, yeah, you know, those are a little trickier. And you could just tell from his body language and from his response that you're like, oh, yeah, this is not, this is not going to be a day one thing. Trump, whatever you say about him, is a preternatural political talent. He has lost his touch on this point.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yes.

[Liz Wheeler]

Which raises its own questions, like, what happened to the guy? It's one thing to handle it the way that he's handling it, to cover up the crimes and decide he's not going to release this information because we don't know what's in there and he's got. Might have some reasons which we can talk about later, but to then have this, like, panicked response, like he's Allen Iverson in that clip talking about practice. You're asking, you're talking about practice. That with Jeffrey Epstein.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Liz Wheeler]

As if it's ridiculous. He has his finger on the pulse of the public like no politician has before.

[Ryan Seacrest]

When he wants to.

[Liz Wheeler]

When he wants to.

[Ryan Seacrest]

When he wants to.

[Liz Wheeler]

So how does he not understand that a politician Chiding the public for asking about Epstein is the worst thing that you can do as a politician today because it has become this point of entry for tens of millions of people into politics who don't have time to follow politics on a minute by minute basis. And so they need to form little heuristics here or there's some have it for why they like Bernie Sanders because he's been saying the same thing for 50 years. So it's like, okay, if Bernie says this, then that I believe that. Or for whatever you have for other politicians. For a lot of people it's this Epstein case. It's like, what does a politician say about Epstein? Because if they're going to lie to me about Epstein, then I don't have to listen to them about anything else because I know that they're just lying, obviously. And they're doing it for a despicable form of power. And so therefore I don't want to hear anything from you. For Trump to know that, he's got to know that and yet to step in it anyway raises the stakes of the other side of the argument. Like this, like, why is he doing this? The power behind the pressure to do what he's doing. It must be just off the charts.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, I think that is such an intelligent way of putting it that I hadn't even fully thought of myself. And it's part of why what we're about to show you, if you're one of those people, should be even more extraordinary and shocking. Here is the Attorney General Pam Bondi, actually responding to those questions about links to Israeli and US intelligence as well as explaining away missing footage in the cameras that were, by the way, originally we were told didn't exist. Now they do exist, but the missing footage is totally routine. Let's take a listen.

[Sagar Enjeti]

February, I did an interview on Fox. I was asked a question about the client list and my response was it's sitting on my desk to be reviewed. And meaning the file along with the JFK MLK files as well. That's what I meant by that. To the tens of thousands of video, they turned out to be child porn downloaded by that disgusting Jeffrey Epstein. Never going to be released, never going to see the light of day. To him being an agent, I have no knowledge about that. And the minute missing from the video and what we learned from Bureau of Prisons was every, every night they redo that video. It's old from like 1999. So every night the video is reset and every night should have the same minute missing. So we're looking for that video to release that as well, showing that a minute is missing every night.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Right. So every night at the same time, a minute of the footage is missing. Oh, okay. But actually it's been missing since 1999, Ryan. I mean, I theoretically flaw there. I theoretically might believe that if this were any other facility. But this is one of the most secure federal lockups in the entire country. And that's part of why the original story, of course, was that the camera footage didn't release. And also the guards were asleep. Nothing to see here. This was all part of the official explanation from the administration. Now the miraculous footage has been discovered, and yet that miraculous footage doesn't show his body being brought out. It also has this missing footage. And there's also some very sketchy stuff that comes out from this video. For example, let's play some of it so that you can take a look at what it all is. So this is allegedly the footage that is being released. You can see here with some of the timestamps and the date, all that is on it. But guys, just flash forward then to the next image because in the image what you can actually see is that's what the original photo that was released now, you know, doesn't look all that similar to me, now, does it? And in particular, you know, what you can see from the government cover up now so far is that there are so many holes in their own story, even according to their own documents. So, for example, let's put this next up on the screen, please. This is from Julie K. Brown. She's a great reporter, by the way. She's been following this Epstein story for well over what, two decades. What she reports here is that the key cameras, quote, were not working. The cameras showing the guards are not the same cameras as those in the Epstein wing. Look at this report. There is even a graphic, because what she's saying is that the lockup video cameras were actually broken. And what she also followed up with is that there are multiple other avenues to the Epstein cell, which of course are not even released here by the administration, which, by the way, in that extraordinary document said, this is it for us. We're not releasing anything else, we're done. And what she's trying to say effectively is that all of the explicit material by Jeffrey Epstein was basically for his own personal consumption. Now, that is literally doesn't fit at all, Ryan, with any of the previous reporting that we had from the initial raid itself, which is something that I know that you noted.

[Liz Wheeler]

Yeah, let's put this next one up.

[Ryan Seacrest]

A six, please.

[Liz Wheeler]

This is a six. This is something I posted in 2019, which is a screenshot from just the arrest warrant. So the FBI was carting stuff out of his mansion here. And this is what was reported at the time. And so I highlighted this thing at this. This detail at the moment where the FBI said that they had found CDs in Jeffrey Epstein's safe that were labeled young fill in the blank name. Plus fill in the blank name. So how do you square that with.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Child porn?

[Liz Wheeler]

Yes, because that doesn't fit that.

[Ryan Seacrest]

That doesn't fit that. And she said that there were thousands of victims. Do you remember that? She said thousands.

[Liz Wheeler]

And those are CDs, right. He had surveillance footage all over his camera and all over his island and everywhere else in his plane and everywhere. Every other creepy place that he goes.

[Ryan Seacrest]

This is from the FBI, by the way, and people with knowledge of that investigation.

[Liz Wheeler]

Yeah, this was publicly reported back when. Cause in the early stages, you're gonna get more honesty from. Cause the FBI agents and the press are treating it like they treat other cases like. Oh, as details emerge, we're going to leak some of these details to our favorite reporters, or we'll put them in the arrest warrant before the word comes down that. Oh, no, no, we're not doing that. So where are those CDs? That is a critical question. Those DVDs, according to the FBI, were hauled away from Epstein's possession. Where are they? In what planet is that child porn?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, that's right. And of course, you know, all of this fits with.

[Liz Wheeler]

I mean, it also is that it.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Would technically be that, of course, but in many cases, it could also feature literal blackmail. Look, some of These women were 18, 19 years old. That doesn't mean that they weren't literally trafficked, you know, against their own will and abused, you know, by still useful blackmail. Jeffrey Epstein. Exactly. And still very, very useful. It's very useful. I mean, really, if you just put this all together. You're watching again, one of the most extraordinary coverups I have ever seen here. And it's especially galling from the administration, which promised not to release. Not just to release it, but Pam Bondi, who held this event. And we're gonna talk about this with Liz Wheeler, where she's, like, all triumphant about releasing the Epstein files. And, you know, Kash Patel and Dan Bongino, all these guys said on camera about the extent to which they were gonna get to the bottom of this. It'd be a day one priority. It'd be Something that would implicate the highest levels of, of the Israeli government, of the transnational elite, the richest people in the world. I mean don't forget, even in the public record of everything we know, all those people are implicated anyways. Right. I mean it's only that we're looking for further confirmation on this. And you know, the COVID up here and the response by Donald Trump, by Pam Bondi and by the administration is one of the most. I mean tone deaf is just like a polite way of saying it at this point. It's just so indicative that they don't wanna talk about this. They want everybody to move on. None of the information that they've released adds up at, it's never really added up from day one. And the COVID up, as you said, the heuristic through which people enter politics is just like if you're gonna lie to me about this, I just really don't believe you on everything. It really is foundational in terms of the worldview that has become unfortunately not just popular per se, but it's one that informs people's view of how much people are willing and how far they are willing to go where they're literally covering up the sexual exploitation of children of US intelligence just to protect somebody. And in this case, I think a lot of us know what that is. Hot days, humid nights and non stop plans. All that heat can increase hair shedding while a packed schedule can add stress.

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[Ryan Seacrest]

What's interesting as well is Elon is really using this to push his so called America party. Some of it is claiming his enemies. Let's put this on the screen. He says recently quote Bannon is in the Epstein files. I will say I have not heard this particular theory before. I do know that there what Michael Wolf, if you remember, wrote a book and had possession of hours of tapes between Jeffrey Epstein and Steve Bannon, I believe it was like something about being prepared for some future deposition in an involvement between Bannon and Jeffrey Epstein. I'm not gonna lie to you, it is sketchy. And I do believe that Bannon has still possession of those tapes or does not yet release them, at least according to Michael Wolfe. I'm assuming he got them from somewhere. Right. It's kind of interesting. And by the way, portions of those tapes have been released, so this is not speculation as to whether they exist or not. But the point remains that Elon and other. It's not even just Elon, even Democrats. Now at this point, mainstream media are waking up, I guess, to the story because they see this as a useful attack vector on the Trump administration. And you know what I say, even if it's opportunistic, be my guest. It's great because the more forces that are just calling the spade a spade and this obvious farce and trying to get to the bottom of it, the better off we are. So here's cnn. They've woken up to the story. Jake Tapper, he's on it now. Only took six years, but it's okay. We're happy to have him. And here he is on CNN yesterday saying they're covering up a trobe of information and this is not going away. Let's take a listen.

[Liz Wheeler]

Experts such as our friend Julie Brown from the Miami Herald, who has been covering Epstein for years, say that the notion of Epstein having an easy to access client list is likely a red herring. And that's what the Trump administration is relying on, that while there might not be a list, there are certainly files that can be released. There's a trove of information that the Trump administration is right now refusing to share. Information that could well point to the powerful folks who availed themselves of the sex trafficking victims of Jeffrey Epstein. If you go, for example, to the FBI vault online, you can see that there are 22 files containing thousands of pages. Most of them are heavily redacted. Now, sure, of course, redact the names and identifying characteristics of the victims, but why not make the victim and witness testimonies public? As Julie Brown points out, there's still so much we don't know from the investigations by US Attorneys in Miami and in New York, witness interviews in the U.S. virgin Islands and New Mexico. Brown writes that there's still more evidence that hasn't been published, including, quote, Epstein kept video cameras in most of his residences. And Epstein's autopsy nor the report of the investigation into his death has ever been Made public. So while there may not be an official client list to be released, as the administration is now saying, there's a lot of extra information that is not being made public.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yes. And look, you know, well, we're happy to have you, Jake. He's not wrong in almost everything that he really said there, except for the so called part about how the mainstream media has never been willing to go after this, which is why, of course, there's a leaked video of ABC News and Good Morning America talking about how they quashed the story to make sure that they kept all of their relations with the Royal Palace. But whatever. But let's just come back actually to an important point. 1 I should reiterate before we get to some of my clips with Tucker Carlson, in some ways it is a misnomer and it's false to say there's a client list. Nobody keeps a ledger. Even the most heinous individuals who are like, took a tape of this guy and now he supports Israel. You know, that's not how it works. They have the tape. Perhaps it was used at some point for blackmail purposes. Perhaps it was never left said, you know, it was like just put on the table and then they had a discussion. And a lot of it is implicit probably in the conversation. A lot of it may never have even been used actually with the full knowledge of what was happening. It was just simply something that was fed up the chain and perhaps held for close purposes. A lot of it, though, and this is part of the other issue is it's not just about the so called client list. It's about what does the list tell us. So what does it tell us? That the former Prime Minister of Israel, Eid Barak, flew on the plane 30 times and stayed multiple nights over at his apartment with many young women present. What does that tell us? It's sketchy, right? And then we put that together with what? But he was getting paid by Epstein by the Leslie Wexner foundation, and he invested in his defense intelligence startup. That's interesting, right? We could put those things together in the public record. We could learn a lot from the client list, probably just by looking at his calendar for who he had dinner with at various different nights and then putting that together with various different investment deals and other things he may have been brokering, let's say Bill Gates and various scientific funding pathways. All of that fits with a loosely connected intelligence operation. And none of it has yet been released to the public. And that's the disgraceful part.

[Liz Wheeler]

Right. And it goes back to the Original point of why didn't they do that? Yeah. So if you're Cash Patel and Dan Bongino or Bamboni or Donald Trump or anybody in the administration who has all your eggs, a lot of eggs in this basket and not dropping it, smashing them all, one alternative available to you is to produce a 150 page report that 135 pages of which is stuff that's already been reported by Vanity Fair or Julie Brown or is just out in the public record and just making some connections and putting things in subheads and where you can't draw a conclusion. You just kind of leave it as it is and say, look, look, this warrants further investigation. And then the 15 pages of it or so was made up of stuff that you redact from documents that hasn't been public yet. And you don't go all the way and say, okay, we have found that he was a Mossad agent or he was working for the US intelligence agencies or whatever. You don't go all the way in, but you could leave some smoke that there are some connections here to intelligence agencies and it warrants further investigation. And if we learn more, we'll tell you more. And then the podcasters and the public would just kind of feed off of that and then the questions would keep being asked, okay, what more can we know about this? And it would end up being just this, same as it is now. People would believe what they believe and would keep asking questions about it for 20 or 30 years and but they wouldn't be blaming Trump for standing in the way of it, even though he would still be kind of standing in the way because he could selectively hold some important stuff back so that path was available. He didn't do that. He's trying to actually straight up shut it down.

[Ryan Seacrest]

While the Israeli Prime Minister isn't.

[Liz Wheeler]

It's a little longer. Just like, who are you doing this for and why?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Look again, I think again, many of us know the answer to that question and it involves very, very high level intelligence.

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Unknown]

I think this for a bunch of reasons. It's so obvious. It is salacious. People have followed it for years. The president promised to reveal the truth about this. Pam Bondi, as you said, went on television. So we have the truth. We're going to give it to you. Yes, I think this is kind of. I think this is a big deal. It's a really big deal. It's bigger. I. Well, I hope so too, actually. So let's just assess this logically. They're covering up. They're the doj. The current DOJ under Pam Bondi is covering up crimes, very serious crimes by their own description. Why are they doing that?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So they're really only two potential explanations that I can think of. Maybe you've got another. The first is that Trump is involved. That, you know, Trump is on the list. They've got tape of Trump doing something awful. I don't believe that for two reasons. One, I've talked to Trump about it a lot, and I. I know him. He's not that. You know, for whatever his sins, I don't think he's that guy, actually. I don't think he likes creepy sex stuff. That's just my view. But moreover, but more, I think convincing, is that this is all information that the Biden administration had. And if there was evidence that Trump had been involved in illegal sexual activity, you. You think the people who made up Russiagate wouldn't have liked it?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Right?

[Unknown]

Come on, now. So the only other explanation that I can think of, again, maybe you've got another. Is that intel services are at the very center of US And Israeli, and they're being protected.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I think that seems like the most obvious. Have a history of this. There have been multiple documented cases of pedophilia inside of the CIA perpetrated by CIA officers. Documented that in many of those, I believe over a dozen cases. This was a buzzfeed news piece years back where the CIA specifically did not want to prosecute those individuals in federal court for fear that they would reveal sources and methods if they were pulled into open court. And they basically just made it go away. The only time they actually prosecute somebody for child pornography was whenever he'd already being prosecuted for mishandling classified information.

[Unknown]

Well, when they want to crush you, they put kitty porn in your computer. Why? Don't have a computer, don't own one.

[Ryan Seacrest]

If you're an important person, you should be careful.

[Liz Wheeler]

No computer in my house.

[Unknown]

So that's the problem.

[Ryan Seacrest]

One of the most important thing.

[Unknown]

The problem, the DOJ decision yesterday to cover up the crimes of Epstein, which they are doing, is that it leaves people at the very end of their electoral options. It's like, I voted for this guy, and I'll speak for myself. I voted for this guy precisely because I'm really distressed. I want justice. I want honesty. I think secrecy abets evil. I want someone to focus on my country, like all the basic things. And I think Trump wants all those things, too. But if you. When you allow something like this to happen, people are like, you know what? The system itself is beyond reform. There's no reasonable step I can take to improve this country or my own life. I have to do something crazy. Like, you're creating true radicalism when you do stuff like this.

[Ryan Seacrest]

See, and that really gets to what Your analysis was there, Ryan, and I was. By the way, if anybody wants to fact check me, it's from BuzzFeed News from 2021. Put BuzzFeed aside. It's Jason Leopold, who you and I know, Ryan, one of The FISA kings.

[Liz Wheeler]

BuzzFeed News did some serious investigative reporting.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah. Back in the day, they actually were a powerhouse in their time, at least in some particular areas. But Jason in particular was, you know, he was the guy. He got Pfizer documents, he got declassified intelligence reports, this all verifiable information about the previous track record that they've used. And it's really the only one that fits. I mean, look, I would say I was probably more willing to agree with Tucker on his first point about Trump until that video that just came out that we covered with Trump. And now I'm like, I don't know, man. Maybe it is something that involves you at this point.

[Liz Wheeler]

Tucker's point that you would think Democrats would have leaked it if they had something damning on Trump is a persuasive one. Then on the other hand, you're like, well, well, maybe they just didn't want to open that can of worms because what.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Right. Who else is in there? Bill Clinton and all of these other. I mean, at this point, though, like, Clinton is. Clinton is out. He's been. Hasn't been president for over 30 years.

[Liz Wheeler]

Like, you know, died for Bill Clinton.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah. It's like, What? Or, sorry, 25 years. But, you know, I mean, if we think about it, it's all a little bit preposterous. I did find it interesting, though, is that both Tucker and I came under attack for, in particular for calling out Pam Bondi, Cash Patel and Dan Bongino. Now, I mean, I think actually they should be held to a high. There's only one, one Trump administration official ever who should be held to the high standard. Alex Acosta, the guy who was the U.S. attorney who let Jeffrey Epstein in a sweetheart deal, who also said.

[Liz Wheeler]

Who said he did it, who said.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Quote, I was told he belonged to Intelligence. That's a report by Vicky Ward. It's a report, by the way, that he was asked about when he was Secretary of Labor in a press conference in 2019, and he said he couldn't comment on that, and he wouldn't, neither confirm nor deny. He's had six years to correct the record, and he's declined not. Not to do so. Okay. Yeah. So just putting that out there. But here is basically the defense of Cash Patel and Dan Bongino. Let's put this up there on the screen. Will Chamberlain. I like Will. I got nothing really hard on him.

[Liz Wheeler]

He was on the show last week.

[Ryan Seacrest]

He was on the show. Here's what he says. Not even an ounce of intellectual humility here responding to Tucker and I. What if Cash Patel and Don Bongino, people we all respected enormously, people Tucker interviewed, are telling the truth? That doesn't mean Epstein wasn't a spy or that any of the other conspiracy theories aren't true. It just means Cash and Dan do not have any evidence of that. Why would you assume they are lying? They've gotten decades long records of being straight shooters, getting to the bottom of serious wrongdoing. Quote, they are our guys. Now what I see in that is a perverse trust that is taken to an extraordinary level. Here's Cash Patel using his previous reputation right where he said, if I had this, don't you think I would give it to you? That's what he said to Joe Rogan. So there's a presumption there that he doesn't have it. And that's part of the reason, is that it doesn't exist. The other presumption of why you don't have it is if you never go looking for it, Ryan is if instead somebody comes to tell you and, and say, hey, you need to make this all go away. All right, you can say that you don't have it cuz we didn't give it to you. But you know, there's some stuff there and it's troubling. It's one of the most classic Washington things in the book is I don't wanna know. So that way if I'm ever asked about it under oath, I don't have to give any real testimony as to that case. And really why it's disgusting from Bondi, from Cash Patel and Dan Bongino is they entered government, government as these renegades who by the way, filthy rich Kash Patel and Dan Bongino off of what by talking about stuff like this, talking about the deep state and their own expertise. They were trusted and confirmed by the United States Senate and the government, put in faith by the American people to get to the bottom of the very things like this. And so then to not have the competence or to at least come forward and explain exactly how you tried to get to the bottom the of of this and put out this bullshit letter from the Attorney General after claiming otherwise while you were in office on camera in front of the South Lawn. It's just all a little bit Too much for me, isn't it, Ryan? Yeah.

[Liz Wheeler]

One of the things, and one of the things you accuse him of lying about in the interview I noticed, was whether or not he killed himself.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yes.

[Liz Wheeler]

And that's a place where I hold out a little bit of space because to me, everything about Epstein, all of the conspiracy, his connections to intelligence, his blackmailing, et cetera, all that could be true. And he also could have killed himself because let's say he's, you know, he sees the life that's ahead of him.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Right, but if it was only him, why did he kill himself? Right.

[Liz Wheeler]

Yeah, there's.

[Ryan Seacrest]

You're looking at a life. You're a billionaire. You could afford the best lawyers in the world. You're looking at a life in protective custody. I'm not saying it's great life, but, you know, it's not horrible.

[Liz Wheeler]

And there's. There's. There's counterarguments, like he was participating in his defense actively. He was friends with the President. He had reasons to think that it might not be a worst case scenario for him. On the other hand, there's reasons you could see that he might have done it. So I would be nervous if by putting too much of the eggs in the basket of he was killed, if there did emerge some proof that he actually killed himself. Like, let's say, oh, we found the video.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Okay, but Ryan, if they then be.

[Liz Wheeler]

Like, see, none of this other stuff is true either, right?

[Ryan Seacrest]

If they had definitive proof that he killed himself, don't you think they would have released it? Okay, let's look at the body of evidence. Now. We have the government here, which is multiple different stories in the cell about how he allegedly hangs.

[Liz Wheeler]

We don't have the autopsy.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Michael Baden, the most famous forensic pathologist in the world, says that the autopsy is not consistent. At least what's available in the autopsy is not consistent with the person who tried to. To kill themselves. If they had the autopsy which proved it, then they would release it. Okay? I mean, look, they're asking an extraordinary amount of trust here. So, fine, go ahead and release the autopsy. Ryan, you and I have been in this game for a long time. You can use FOIA and other public records requests to get cases where it's compelling interest to the American public. Yeah, it happens all the time. What are we protecting beyond that? Tucker made a great point. None of the other inmates on the cell block, their names have ever been released. They've all been transferred to various different prisons. Their name remain unknown to us to this day. And you know I can keep going in terms of the whole killed yourself thing. It's just if you're gonna ask. Some extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And all of this evidence is allegedly that you have. I mean, same coming back to the so called list, flight logs ever, et cetera. You know, Epstein was a billionaire. Last time I checked, Ryan billionaires have a lot of paperwork that they have to fire up. He's a tax guy to. Yeah, he's a tax expert. That's why these billionaires paid him all this money. Right? Well, last time I checked, you know, you have to release all that to the irs. All right? So every year, no matter who you are, you gotta file something. All right? And in that something, tell me, tell me about the LLCs, tell me about the pastor entities, tell me about, you know, what was paying for this and that. And you know, we already have so much body of information. I talked about this on the Tucker Carlson. I probably did. It might have been with you. We talked about this. Five years ago, the Department of Financial Services in the state of New York fined Deutsche Bank a lot of money for ignoring all of its own policies. And it gave us exact insight into the bank's handling of the Epstein case. The Barclays CEO lost his job basically over his previous role working with Epstein in wealth management. All of that is a paper trail. It has a lot of names.

[Liz Wheeler]

That's the kind of thing that you could put out in 100%.

[Ryan Seacrest]

That's exactly what you could easily put. You can put it out in a report, you can have subpoena power, which the federal government has. These are serious crimes, by the way, that regulators are supposed to have a compelling interest in, because we're talking about money laundering at some of the highest levels. Leon Black, who's worth $9 billion, head of the Apollo Group, paid him $170 million for tax advice that he later came out and said actually his tax advice wasn't even good because it was all in the public domain. Okay. Okay. I mean, yeah, I mean, I always pay people $170 million for publicly available tax advice. Right. Ye. I mean, this is the level of BS they want you to swallow. And so these are all things anybody remotely interested in the Epstein case could bring up and could talk about. But Ben Shapiro has another take. He says, I accept. I accept the word of Cash Patel.

[Liz Wheeler]

The word.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I accept his word. Let's take a listen. The DOJ and the FBI, again, run by people like Dan Bongino and Cash Patel and Pam Bondi, are telling you they are I'm not telling you. They're telling you. He was not married, murdered, he did not keep a client list, and he did not blackmail powerful figures. If you are willing to throw that over and claim they're lying, then I'd like to see you present your evidence that they are in fact lying. Because I know Dan. I don't think that Dan Pacino is lying to me. I know Cash Patel a little bit. I don't think Cash Patel is lying to me. I don't think these people are lying to me. And now is the point at which the, the facts on the ground have changed. And so either you ought to shift your opinion based on the facts that have now emerged or you ought to acknowledge that this was never a fact based inquiry in the first place. Place. I know him and I don't think he's lying to me.

[Liz Wheeler]

Yeah, I mean, what we know about relationships between powerful people in the government and influential journalists is that they never lie to each other.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Of course. Yeah.

[Liz Wheeler]

I mean, so if, if, if a government official says something to a powerful person in the media. Yes. Especially if they say it privately.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Right.

[Liz Wheeler]

You could take that to the bank.

[Ryan Seacrest]

You could take it to the bank. I mean. Right. I've never been lied to by people in power. In fact, you know, part of the.

[Liz Wheeler]

Reason I do this, they wouldn't lie to me.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Make sure that they would never lie to me. If anything, I get lied to more by the people who I know who are in the government. Isn't that interesting? But look, you could take all this for what you will. I don't know. I mean, it's something I said on Tucker's show is the lie is not meant to actually be told to the public. It really is just a signal to everyone in the imperium, everybody who's involved in the scheme. We will go to the ends of the earth to protect you. I have no other conclusion that I can draw. There's no reason. It's just like the magic bullet theory. It takes one second for somebody to say, yeah, that's just not what happened. I mean, it's just not. It just didn't happen. But the reason why it stands to this day as an explanation for the Kennedy assassination is that the alternative is just too difficult to contemplate. And the magic bullet theory remains, you know, that idea that is perpetrated for the single reason of telling everybody involved from the CIA, up and down for the Cubans and all, you know, the, you know, anti Castro Cubans, all the group mob, whatever, all any of the groups are particularly involved in this and to just say, don't worry about it. We will never tell the public the truth.

[Liz Wheeler]

I'm going to Dallas this Friday for the first time.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Are you?

[Liz Wheeler]

I'm gonna go to Dealing.

[Ryan Seacrest]

No offense.

[Liz Wheeler]

I just want to see all. I want to see all the stuff. Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I mean it's a little underwhelming to be honest, but yeah, you should be there one night. Everyone should go see it. It's ok. It's an okay city. Sorry Dallas in Dallas. Sorry Dallas. It's all right. All right, let's get to Liz Wheeler. She's standing by. We're going to talk to her about this influencer event and how she feels.

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[Liz Wheeler]

Void where prohibited by law.

[Sagar Enjeti]

21/ terms and conditions apply.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Joining us now is Liz Wheeler. She is host of the Liz wheeler show on BlazeTV. Liz and I go way back, but for our purposes, we're here to talk to Liz about the Epstein files, which she herself was involved in. Liz, the Epistine files, Exactly. That's an important point here for Liz to join us. Liz, you were unwittingly part of this event which got a lot of attention. We can put the photo up here on the screen, shall we? Where you were coming out of the White House with some other, I guess, personalities, I guess is the best way to describe it. Where you were part of a meeting with the Attorney General, Pam Bomb, where she handed you this binder known as the Epstein Files, Phase one. Now, it turned out later on that most of that was publicly available information. And Liz, you've since, especially since the letter released by the doj, been very critical of Attorney General Pam Bondi. So we wanted to give you a chance as somebody who was basically used by the White House as part of this event to talk about this. Go ahead.

[Sagar Enjeti]

Yeah, I think one of the most important things to establish is that day at the White House in late February, we were not invited there to meet meet with Pam Bondi. We were not invited there to be given those infamous white Epstein binders. We were actually invited as a really cool initiative on the part of the White House. They invited a bunch of new media personalities, conservative commentators, independent journalists there and told us, listen, we're not gonna reward the mainstream media anymore for their propagandizing. They're lying, they're smearing. We're going to start giving access to independent figures, which means we're gonna give you access today to all of the top administration officials. So we actually spent the day meeting with all the most of the cabinet secretaries and a lot of the most powerful people in the West Wing from the President, the vice president and all of his staff. And it was really cool. Unfortunately, it got hijacked, which from a personal perspective is very annoying and frustrating. Also a political issue for President Trump that hasn't quite been put to bed yet. But when we did meet with Pam Bondi, it was about a 15 minute meeting. The attorney general came in, she talked to us about some of the other initiatives that the DOJ is working on on. And then towards the end of the meeting, she hands us these binders. And of course, the COVID sheet of that binder says, the most transparent administration in history. It says, phase one of the Epstein files. Our first reaction, of course, was, my goodness, what is this? She very quickly clarified that the juicy stuff, the dirty stuff, wasn't in these binders. She said, when I got into office, I immediately requested the Epstein files. This is what I was given by the FBI. But I thought 100 pages or however many, many, however many pages that is, that can't be all of it. She's like. And I soon came to realize that after a whistleblower, she said, called me and told me the SDNY was hiding other documents, truckloads of documents. The real dirty stuff, she told us, the real story is that the FBI is stonewalling me. The FBI is lying to me. That's the story. And she offered that story to us to break. Now, that's where things. I don't even think that's where things start to go south. One of the things that I revealed this week that I hadn't talked about before is one of the first red flags for me is the attorney general told us during that meeting that she created the COVID sheet on that binder. She was bragging about it. She said, I made this. I put it in here. Look at this. Isn't this beautiful? The most transparent administration in history. And at the time, I'm like, what are you talking about? Especially given the fact that it didn't contain any of the bombshells that people had come to expect from the idea of the Epstein files. Of course we want this to be solved. We don't want someone who committed the crimes that he committed to get away with it. If there's government cover up, we need that to be exposed. It's why people have this visceral reaction to it. So that never quite sat right with me. There was, of course, then the botched embargo. The picture that you showed on the screen, I think, is also important to clarify. We were never smiling about the Epstein binders. I know that's what the. The accusation on X is. And I clarified this probably five minutes after it happened. We were rushed out of the West Wing. You know, when you go into the West Wing, you put your phone in a secure box. You can't have technology in the West Wing. So we had all of our stuff, our coats. It was the middle of winter, the files. We'd met with President Trump in the Oval Office. So we had some hats and some coins and some Pens. It was really a cool experience. It's the White House, for goodness sake. But the UK Prime Minister was set to join President Trump shortly, and our meeting ran long. He arrived early. So we were kind of rushed unceremoniously out the back door of the White House, and we unintentionally ran into a gaggle of mainstream media on the grass in the back. And you should have seen their faces, Sagar. They were so bitter that we were invited into the White House that we were given access to these cabinet secretaries. That's what we were smiling about. Yeah, we were taunting them. Of course they were bitter and they deserved to be bitter. They lied and they propagandized. So we were also giddy because we had just been in the Oval Office, we had just taken a collective vote that President Trump had asked us of which painting he should hang, George Washington or Ronald Reagan. I mean, you can't help but feel a high after an experience like that, notwithstanding the grisly crimes of the Epstein Binders. That was just in our arms with the rest of our stuff. Stuff. Now, I understand the optics of it, and again, it frustrates and annoys me because I think some people, even on the right, allowed the mainstream media to define this story. They allowed the mainstream media to say, look at these influencers smiling and dancing about these binders like, no, that's not what the story was. We were told we could post this stuff immediately. So we thought, okay, we need to set this record straight. It looks bad if people believe that we're smiling about the Epstein Binder. So. So we posted the pictures of them, say, hey, we got access to this and we're going to give it to you. We're not gatekeeping this. But then as soon as we posted that, we were told retroactively that there was an embargo on the real story, which is the SDNY cover up, and on the contents of the binders, because they didn't want questions during President Trump's press conference with the UK Prime Minister to be hijacked by questions about Epstein. Now, that, of course, totally screwed us over, because then it made it appear that we were engaging in gatekeeping and clickbait and lying. And I cannot even tell you, and I won't, because I want to keep this show family friendly. What kind of communications? I don't want to speak for other people, but what kind of communications I was having behind the scenes with the White House at that time, I told them in no uncertain terms, they better lift that embargo stat, because what this was doing, not just to me, Sager, I mean, I'm but a small cog in this story, but to their administration as a whole. You watch this unfold, it's like watching a train wreck. So obviously it took us a little time. I was going to respect, I chose to respect the White House's embargo, even though I thought it was a huge mistake. Beyond a mistake, a severe lapse in judgment. But by the time I posted the real story, people were already, and I understand why, angry about having seen those photos. So that's February, right? And I was very transparent, very honest about how everything unfolded immediately. I did a lot of media in the days, days following, even though some people told me to hunker down, I was like, absolutely not. Like the opposite of hunkering down is gonna happen here. I'm gonna tell the exact truth about what happened and I don't care who it reflects badly on because I'm just, I pursue the truth. And that's why my audience respects me. So fast forward to this weekend. I've given Attorney General Pam Bonney the benefit of the doubt. You wanna give people on your side the benefit of the doubt? I thought, you know what, let's see if it's true. Let's see if the SDNY actually does have other documents. That's very believable because we know on from sources within the intelligence community, especially the FBI, that there's been destruction of evidence. We know from the highest ranking officials in the FBI that they have tried to. That the deep state swamp creatures in the FBI have tried to hide evidence even from the director and the deputy director. So it's very believable that, that the SDNY would be hiding these documents from Pam Bondi. Especially if what we think, what the evidence leads us to believe is true about the Epstein story is true. So I give Pam Bondi the benefit of the doubt, even though she had said, I have the client list, it is on my desk. Well, then Sunday night happens and we get this memo, this unsigned, weird memo. I have no reason to think it's not, it's not authentic because the White House and the Department of Justice didn't deny it. I think, I think it's a real memo. And it suddenly states unequivocally a definitive pronouncement that there is no client list, there is no blackmail. Epstein killed himself and that's. You're not getting any other documents. Done deal. Don't ask any questions. Goodbye. And I'm like, what? So suddenly I'm In a position where I cannot square Pam Bondi's behavior from back in February, bragging about this cover sheet, making the COVID sheet, I asked her directly on that day, have you seen the SDNY documents? And she told me on that day in the White House, across the hall from the Oval Office, no, she had not seen those documents. So I'm left in a position thinking I can't square her comments and her behavior that day with this Department of Justice, this Department of Justice announcement. The only explanation that I can reasonably conclude is that she got out over her skis, and that's the most generous term that I can think of. Truthfully. It appears as though she's click thirsty, that she wanted to be a Fox News star, that she wanted to be a mega champion, and she made promises, made statements over promise and didn't deliver. And if I'm President Trump today, I am thinking very carefully about the amount of political capital that Pam Bondi has cost me, the fact that she has become a liability to the administration because this could all have been put to bed. You and I and other people who are, who feel strongly about learning the truth, discovering the truth about Epstein, we would have been like, okay, if the Department of Justice told us, listen, we got in here and the files are empty. We don't know what happened to this stuff. We don't know if it's destroyed or hidden. We don't have anything. We're just being honest with you. Sure, we would have been disappointed, but we would have been like, okay, that's believable. But to have this, these politicians, these government officials. Officials tell us, ignore the evidence before your eyes and instead believe us without evidence saga, there's not a politician in the world. No matter how strongly I support that, I would extend that level of faith to no.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Should you?

[Liz Wheeler]

How's your audience responding to this?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Good question. My audience that I would say, my regular audience is very much willing to listen. We're truth seekers. We are natural skeptics. So we're used to challenging the status quo. I have been in this industry a long time, and anybody who has ever watched me knows that I don't engage in hot takes. You make a deliberate choice at the beginning of your career, right? Whether you're going to engage in clickbait, whether you're going to be deliberately bombastic and hyperbolic in order to get views and become popular. Like I said, I've been in this business a long time. And it's very clear to anybody who is analyzing it, analyzing me in good faith That I don't do that. That. So my audience has been pretty wonderful. They've been very interested in this story because this is what I told President Trump yesterday. The reason people care about this story is not necessarily because they care about Epstein, the person himself. It's not because they care about Epstein's list itself. It's because of what it represents. We voted for President Trump because we want justice. We want justice for everything. We want justice for Russiagate. We want justice for censorship. We want justice for January 6th. We want justice for Covid. We want justice for FBI targeting of parents and Catholics and pro lifers. We want justice for the phony Ukraine impeachment. We want justice for all of these egregious abuses of power, the weaponization of the federal government against us. We've been hurt defending President Trump and the America first agenda that we share with him. We have been hurt, and we want justice. Justice does not mean pushing these crimes into the, into the past and simply moving forward. Justice means accountability, and accountability means, means identifying the people who committed the crimes, indicting them, arresting them, and putting them on trial. And when we see the Department of Justice again, tell us, okay, well, this Epstein case, which a lot of people feel is foundational, a bad crime was committed, maybe politicians, rich and powerful people were involved, and so he was held to a different standard of justice. When they see this, they feel that this is injustice. They feel they are not getting justice. Justice. Combine that with the fact that Pam Bondi's Department of Justice, they've done a lot of good things. I, I support many of the things that she has done. However, on these really, really pivotal issues, I mentioned a couple of them a second ago. We haven't seen the justice that we voted for. And so it really resonates deeply and viscerally with his base, many of whom are viewers of my show, that this is, this is not the correct course for him.

[Ryan Seacrest]

And, Liz, I saw you say we could put this on the screen. You said it's time to fire Pam Bondi. I also saw you react. We played earlier a clip on our show of President Trump shutting down the conversation about Epstein. And you said that this was really an issue that he's getting away from his base on. And so part of the reason we wanted to have you on the show is you were willing to speak up here about how effectively the administration, like you said, generously got over. I would say they lied to your face. And so as somebody who was basically used here by the Trump administration in this way, why do you think it's so important to try and hold them accountable after not just what they did to you? Because you are representing people who voted for Donald Trump in good faith, some on this very issue?

[Sagar Enjeti]

Well, listen, I think the person who bears the responsibility here is Attorney General Pam Bondi. And again, I say this somewhat sorrowfully. I am a true friend. End of the America first agenda. Which means that I'm going to tell the truth even when the truth has consequences, even when the truth is unpleasant to hear. I always say the truest test of loyalty is whether you're willing to tell the truth when it's uncomfortable and constructive criticism helps sharpen the effectiveness of the administration. So that's what I'm doing right now, because this is a problem for President Trump and it's a problem. It's an unforced error. Attorney General Pam Bondi should have been smart enough, enough, should have been sharp enough. If you're the Attorney General of the United States, for goodness sake, you should not simply take the word of an anonymous phone call. If the whistleblower was anonymous, anonymous, to me, at least. You don't just accept the veracity of that and try to create a news story out of it in order to portray yourself as a mega champion. That means that you are, at best incompetent at pursuing power, pursuing fame. That is not the right person for this job. And it didn't have to happen. Happen. She didn't have to give us those binders. She didn't have to misrepresent the truth. She didn't have to say she had the files on her desk. She didn't have to put out this Department of Justice memo the way that she did. None of this had to happen the way that it did. And it's hurting President Trump. So, Sagar, there's a story that country singer John Rich tells about having dinner with President Trump and President Trump turning to him and say, saying, why do people boo at my rallies when I talk about the COVID vaccine? And President Trump listened when John Rich told him, because people have been hurt by that jab. And I think that this is one of those moments. President Trump is so smart, he's so strategic, he's so connected with his base. And this is a moment to listen to why the base cares about this. The base cares about this because we voted for justice. And we feel that this is a canary in the coal mine of whether the Department of Justice is going to actually pursue it. It Latt's administration, we were told, Hillary Clinton, you know, lock her up. And it didn't happen. We do not want that to be repeated. And as I said, President Trump seems to be misrepresenting or not listening to his base as well as he does often in this case. But he's also very good at course correction. So I saw that video yesterday too in the Cabinet meeting where he snapped at the report and said, why are we still talking about this? And I hope that that's not a rhetorical question for him. I hope he actually turns to someone who cares about this and and says, why are people talking about this? Because when he hears the answer, I think that it will make a difference.

[Liz Wheeler]

Just real quick, you said you told Trump yesterday, did you mean just publicly or did you talk to him privately?

[Sagar Enjeti]

No, I meant on my show. I meant in the various media appearances. I keep private communications private out of respect until a point at which the country deserves to know.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Okay. All right. Well, Liz, we appreciate you very much for joining us and for giving us some of the background on that speaker story. And we'll see you later.

[Sagar Enjeti]

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[Sagar Enjeti]

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